Newbie 2051: Iceland! - End!

[Salsabil Faria]

Hi everyone Good to see you again Enchant and esotericzoomer

[Salsabil Faria]

Hello. This is my first game on this site.

How to play as Mafia Goon? What it do?

Really dude!!! Stop joking around

[Salsabil Faria]

Salsa.

Can you change your color, please? It hurts.

Is it better?

[Salsabil Faria]

Greetings Comrades.

There is simply only room in here for 1 person with numbers in their name and it shall be I.

VOTE: safebet222

Lol!

[Salsabil Faria]

Salsa.

Can you change your color, please? It hurts.

Seconded, we salute you

Is this color working for you?

[Salsabil Faria]

That's darker

not working for you?

[Salsabil Faria]

A couple of questions for everyone...

What's your experience with mafia?
Why do you like to play mafia in general and forum mafia specifically?

This is my 5th forum game, third one in the last few months. I also have played some chat mafia. I think Mafia is fascinating and suspenseful and I like the fact that its mainly people younger than myself that play. I prefer forum mafia over chat mafia because my mind doesn't work so fast and I naturally am careful with what I write.

It's my 5th game in the forum.
What do you mean by play mafia in general? I am only playing at this forum, never play on chat mafia. Where do I find chat mafia?

[Salsabil Faria]

So there is forum mafia... Real life mafia, chat mafia and video mafia. I'm asking why do you like playing mafia, whatever kind of Mafia it is...and why you like forum mafia compared to other kinds of mafia.

Well, I did play a different version of the real-life mafia a long time ago with my cousins, but I never play chat mafia or video mafia. So if you can me inbox me the links for these two or can tell me where to find them, I will be glad And, I like forum mafia cause it's interesting to play, find out towns/scums by conversations, getting intense, sometimes funny.... it's like a whole package

[Salsabil Faria]

I Vanilla mafia (like this one) is not type i like.

I never heard that scum claim their role

[Salsabil Faria]

Vanilla Mafia i calling is boring setups like "Just townies and maybe doctor/cop/SK".

Oh, understood. It's a newbie game, so setups are limited. Do you play on big setups?

[Salsabil Faria]

Yeeaaah.

So i'm not good at game, where main source of info is people yelling on each other.

Dude, you won Newbie 2046 by fooling the town perfectly! If you are not good, don't know who can be!!

[Salsabil Faria]

Sorry for the late, I had an exam, let me catch up.

[Salsabil Faria]

yeah i am 100% suspicious of safebet after that

Why? Like what motivation do I have to do that as scum?

If anyone/your scum partner hammered at that point, it would definitely benefit the team mafia cause

(i)

if you are the mafia then you know

flow trap

is a town, so a miselimination would occur and,

(ii)

the day would over without discussing anything, the town would stay behind.
Can't find any town motivation from your E-1 vote.

[Salsabil Faria]

I'm leaning town on safe, floo and Spartan

Can you share the reasons?

[Salsabil Faria]

yeah i am 100% suspicious of safebet after that

Why? Like what motivation do I have to do that as scum?

Where's your motivation to do that as town? There's no positives from dancing around flow traps wagon like this.

Reactions... Gotta have reactions to start getting somewhere.

Okay, fair enough...

[Salsabil Faria]

I'm leaning town on safe, floo and Spartan

Can you share the reasons?

Floo seems typical chaotic town and Spartan seems genuine here

Why do you scum read

Fredrick A Campbell

?

[Salsabil Faria]

yeah i am 100% suspicious of safebet after that

Why? Like what motivation do I have to do that as scum?

If anyone/your scum partner hammered at that point, it would definitely benefit the team mafia cause

(i)

if you are the mafia then you know

flow trap

is a town, so a miselimination would occur and,

(ii)

the day would over without discussing anything, the town would stay behind.
Can't find any town motivation from your E-1 vote.

Then you're not thinking hard enough

I don't think it's up to you that you will decide if I'm thinking hard or not. We are different, so our points of view will be different too.

[Salsabil Faria]

So right now, for me, FoS is pointing at EZ and Spartan.

EZ for an unnatural response to my flow vote and Spartan for voting there when he did. Easy to slip by sandwiched between votes on a flash wagon.

FoS means?

[Salsabil Faria]

Can we place votes here even if it's on a MoO it's still helpful

Vote where? And what is MoO?

[Salsabil Faria]

EZ, would you agree that mafia doesn't want attention?

Not necessarily, I saw mafia can be super active to get townie point.

[Salsabil Faria]

Ok, it was a bluff, that was a reaction test; I retract my statements

[Salsabil Faria]

If I didn't know any better, I'd think that enchant is trying to pocket Salsa. She was quick hammered by Not_Mafia and enchant in Newbie 2042 during D2 and they passed that shit off as a lolhammer that enchant rode into F3 and won for mafia.

not gonna fooling this time!

[Salsabil Faria]

If I didn't know any better, I'd think that enchant is trying to pocket Salsa. She was quick hammered by Not_Mafia and enchant in Newbie 2042 during D2 and they passed that shit off as a lolhammer that enchant rode into F3 and won for mafia.

not gonna fooling this time!

be fooled* (still don't know if it's the right grammar )

[Salsabil Faria]

Yo, not a dirty flaker, late here and will read through tomorrow.

Welcome!

[Salsabil Faria]

allez

[Salsabil Faria]

Found this sus to even insinuate it is somewhat serious a vote this early on with such little discussion, unless ofc this is to obtain a reaction and read responses.

Right, as I explained I said it was "partially serious" to avoid seeming scummy / too random.

I probably ask something nonsense, but really want.

Why you think placing votes suspicious? Do you really care how suspicious are you?

Of course explaining votes is good, but doing that and claiming you did that just to don't seem suspicious for that is really something strange.

Town supposed to push suspicious people, you know.

I second that. Not your vote but your explanation is suspicious : "

to avoid seeming scummy"

[Salsabil Faria]

Btw, what is the difference between hammer and lolhammer?

[Salsabil Faria]

Btw, what is the difference between hammer and lolhammer?

hammer intended by most, and this is collective decision.
lolhammer is just because voter wanted to.

Hmm... so the person who knows a word like lolhammer but don't know what SR indicates, seems like a LAMIST (Look At Me, I'm So Town) thing to me.

[Salsabil Faria]

It is common practice to announce intent to hammer as a way of confirming consensus and allowing time for the target of the hammer to claim. When the hammer happens without the claim of intent, whether by accident or design, they call it a lolhammer.

What happened to you my dear Salsabil in 2042 was a quickhammer, when scum coordinate on a hammer without consent from the town. It is most often used in ELo.

Understood, thank you.

[Salsabil Faria]

Btw, what is the difference between hammer and lolhammer?

hammer intended by most, and this is collective decision.
lolhammer is just because voter wanted to.

Hammer is always done with a previous post of an intent to hammer giving the player time to claim their role or any other players to withdraw their vote if desired.

Lolhammer is done out of the blue with no prior warning and is typically either done by newb town or scum.

Thank you too

[Salsabil Faria]

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

For being passive and fluffy

[Salsabil Faria]

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

For being passive and fluffy

What don't you get?

Like everything... your wagon was on E-1, but didn't get any response from you. You townread those people who voted you, and placed suspicions on those who didn't like the E-1 vote on you. And you already read people while being on page 4 only, like super fast! You also stated you're not a new player, so as an experienced one you should know that being super active/helpful doesn't necessarily indicate town, as well as being silent doesn't necessarily indicate scum. Generally, activity is the last resort to point someone as town/scum. A new player can read people at this early state base on the activeness but not an experienced player. Your suspicion on

esotericzoomer

for this reason doesn't make sense to me, also your vote on

Fredrick A Campbell

and the explanation after, also feel weird to me.

[Salsabil Faria]

I'm getting town vibe (for now) from

safebet222

,

esotericzoomer

and

Spartan117

. Not getting town vibe (for now) from

flow trap

,

Enchant

and

floo

. Not getting any kind of vibe (for now) from

Prism

and

Fredrick A Campbell

.

[Salsabil Faria]

Btw, what is the difference between hammer and lolhammer?

hammer intended by most, and this is collective decision.
lolhammer is just because voter wanted to.

Hmm... so the person who knows a word like lolhammer but don't know what SR indicates, seems like a LAMIST (Look At Me, I'm So Town) thing to me.

I know what lolhammer means, because i did it with you.

SR is new term for me. I prefer "Suspicious"

I really want to give you the benefit of the doubt you know, really do.... but I was burned once, really don't want to get burned again.

[Salsabil Faria]

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

For being passive and fluffy

What don't you get?

Like everything... your wagon was on E-1, but didn't get any response from you. You townread those people who voted you, and placed suspicions on those who didn't like the E-1 vote on you. And you already read people while being on page 4 only, like super fast! You also stated you're not a new player, so as an experienced one you should know that being super active/helpful doesn't necessarily indicate town, as well as being silent doesn't necessarily indicate scum. Generally, activity is the last resort to point someone as town/scum. A new player can read people at this early state base on the activeness but not an experienced player. Your suspicion on

esotericzoomer

for this reason doesn't make sense to me, also your vote on

Fredrick A Campbell

and the explanation after, also feel weird to me.

Yeah, I don't respond to things like that as town or mafia. As I've stated it's easier to read people who interact with you, and I was also weary of a pocket attempt how they read me barely affects thing. Yeah, I try to read people early, I just said I was leaning that way. Being fluffy & passive isn't being silent, so idk what you mean. i no longer suspect EZ, I will elaborate later. And if you never played with me before the last thing would feel weird

Yes, I never played with you before. I didn't mean silent=being passive+fluffy (which I still don't understand what do you mean by that) but I was talking about 172.

[Salsabil Faria]

Yeeaaah.

So i'm not good at game, where main source of info is people yelling on each other.

Dude, you won Newbie 2046 by fooling the town perfectly! If you are not good, don't know who can be!!

Actually it's Newbie 2042, sorry for the mistake.

[Salsabil Faria]

Yes, I never played with you before. I didn't mean silent=being passive+fluffy (which I still don't understand what do you mean by that) but I was talking about 172.

I fail to see the relation with that post and what you were saying

safebet222

put you on E-1, you read him as a town and

esotericzoomer

didn't like the E-1 vote (I also didn't like it), got suspicious about

safebet222

and you stated your suspicion on

esotericzoomer

where your maint point was "a scum doesn't want attention". But my saying is attention/activeness doesn't necessarily point to town and town only.

[Salsabil Faria]

Btw, what is the difference between hammer and lolhammer?

hammer intended by most, and this is collective decision.
lolhammer is just because voter wanted to.

Hmm... so the person who knows a word like lolhammer but don't know what SR indicates, seems like a LAMIST (Look At Me, I'm So Town) thing to me.

I know what lolhammer means, because i did it with you.

SR is new term for me. I prefer "Suspicious"

I really want to give you the benefit of the doubt you know, really do.... but I was burned once, really don't want to get burned again.

With same reason Mini tried vote me out 1d, and she was mafia. I hope you doesh't abuse this excuse?

Well, I just find out you asked the same question about SR in Newbie 2042 (post 193) and got the answer from the immediate next post (post 194). Also, I don't understand this sentence:

I hope you doesh't abuse this excuse?

[Salsabil Faria]

Drawing attention and posting a lot is different

Well, rather post count and attention drawn don't correlate

Don't agree, if a scum wants to read as a town, need to/can draw attention by faking and posting helpful stuff for the town.

[Salsabil Faria]

Drawing attention and posting a lot is different

Well, rather post count and attention drawn don't correlate

Don't agree, if a scum wants to read as a town, need to/can draw attention by faking and posting helpful stuff for the town.

I'm not referring to positive attention

Other than

esotericzoomer

and me, who gave negative attention to

safebet222

for his E-1 vote on you?

[Salsabil Faria]

Spoiler:

Btw, what is the difference between hammer and lolhammer?

hammer intended by most, and this is collective decision.
lolhammer is just because voter wanted to.

Hmm... so the person who knows a word like lolhammer but don't know what SR indicates, seems like a LAMIST (Look At Me, I'm So Town) thing to me.

I know what lolhammer means, because i did it with you.

SR is new term for me. I prefer "Suspicious"

I really want to give you the benefit of the doubt you know, really do.... but I was burned once, really don't want to get burned again.

With same reason Mini tried vote me out 1d, and she was mafia. I hope you doesh't abuse this excuse?

Well, I just find out you asked the same question about SR in Newbie 2042 (post 193) and got the answer from the immediate next post (post 194). Also, I don't understand this sentence:

I hope you doesh't abuse this excuse?

Oh no, you catched me.

[/quote]

[Salsabil Faria]

Other than esotericzoomer and me, who gave negative attention to safebet222 for his E-1 vote on you?

That's a loaded question

1. To a normal person, what safe did is blatantly scummy
2. Scum does not want to act scummy
3. Town does not care about acting scummy
3. Therefore mostly town would do this

Yes, I agree... I'm also leaning town on

safebet222

, which I find weird are your suspicions and the explanations for them.
And English is not my native language, sometimes I find it hard to understand what everyone is saying. That's why asking a lot of questions! So can you tell me what do you mean by

(i)

me being passive and fluffy,

(ii)

loaded question?

[Salsabil Faria]

(i) me being passive and fluffy, (ii)loaded question?

1. Lacking force & substance
2. See https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/loaded-question

1.

don't have anything to say about this

2.

it's not a loaded question, you actually did this: townread those who voted you, stated suspicions/voted who didn't like the E-1 vote on you

[Salsabil Faria]

Spoiler:

Mafia know this too, and can imitate dumb thoughs

Then it would be a mafia thing then it wouldn't be a mafia thing because mafia wouldn't act like mafia and then it would be because it's no longer a mafia thing to do which would make it a mafia thing

Yes.

...since it is a mafia thing mafia won't want to do it, if mafia are expected to not do it then they would, which means they wouldn't and I could go in circles forever

[/quote]

[Salsabil Faria]

it's not a loaded question, you actually did this: townread those who voted you, stated suspicions/voted who didn't like the E-1 vote on you

I was talking about "Other than esotericzoomer and me, who gave negative attention to safebet222 for his E-1 vote on you?"

Yes I know you were talking about that and my answer is still the same: it was not a loaded question. Also, it seems like you make up your mind, like I'm talking to a wall at this point.

[Salsabil Faria]

I feel like there is 1 scum between Flow trap Vs Sal.
I don't see it as Scum Vs Scum, and it just doesn't feel like Town Vs Town to me.

I'm town for sure.

[Salsabil Faria]

I completely disagree with TSTBS as a whole.

What is TSTBS?

[Salsabil Faria]

I feel like there is 1 scum between Flow trap Vs Sal.
I don't see it as Scum Vs Scum, and it just doesn't feel like Town Vs Town to me.

I'm town for sure.

So are you trying to say you think Flow is scum, or do you disagree with what I have said here?

No, I'm not trying to say that

flow trap

is scum. I only know my alignment and it's town. So scum/scum is not possible. It can be either scum/town or town/town.

[Salsabil Faria]

I feel like there is 1 scum between Flow trap Vs Sal.
I don't see it as Scum Vs Scum, and it just doesn't feel like Town Vs Town to me.

I'm town for sure.

So are you trying to say you think Flow is scum, or do you disagree with what I have said here?

No, I'm not trying to say that

flow trap

is scum. I only know my alignment and it's town. So scum/scum is not possible. It can be either scum/town or town/town.

So you're not willing to say at this time if you think Flow trap is town or scum?

I'm not getting town vibe from

Flow trap

at the moment sure but it does not necessarily mean they are scum/town. (Refer: 226)

[Salsabil Faria]

Because I was pretending to be new?

town don't pretend?

[Salsabil Faria]

I don't really get why there's a question mark there. I'm asking about what you were thinking during your first two votes. "Because I was pretending to be new" is a deeper purpose in contrast to the "Nothing" you originally gave.

Looking at page 4 and the posts around here you seem to be annoyed by the votes on you. Looking at your comment about being an experienced player, you might need to recenter to first principles. Being dismissive of questions doesn't really help as either alignment. It's better to be straightforward and eliminate the guesswork.

If I'm not answering a question it means it's worse for me to answer it

Town doesn't need to think these types of 'image-conscious' things, but for a scum, it makes sense. What are you doing is redirecting others' attention from you.

[Salsabil Faria]

Because I was pretending to be new?

town don't pretend?

NTS?

NTS=

[Salsabil Faria]

NTS=

No true Scottsman

Well, it was not NTS. You're acting mysteriously.

Because I was pretending to be new?

town don't pretend?

NTS?

[Salsabil Faria]

What is with the sudden double post glitch?

Its to get your post count up, something decided it wasn't high enough

[Salsabil Faria]

Well, it was not NTS. You're acting mysteriously.

1. Town does not pretend
2. I am town & I pretended
3. I am not truely town

NTS fallacy

Hell no! what you said in post 281, specially with the question mark, is exactly sounding like this: "maybe I was pretending to be new". And I said town doesn't need to pretend. Your mysterious staff is making it hard to read you, which I find annoying at the moment.

[Salsabil Faria]

Here's my pair analysis, yellow is unlikely

I don't get this. Can you/anyone explain me with words?

[Salsabil Faria]

"maybe I was pretending to be new"

It was "Is this what you want from me?"

If you say so, but it wasn't sound like this.

[Salsabil Faria]

Cross pair elimination, take the yellow square on A2, if you trace it back it goes to Salsa+Enchant, which means I find them unlikely to be a pair

Still not get it

[Salsabil Faria]

Cross pair elimination, take the yellow square on A2, if you trace it back it goes to Salsa+Enchant, which means I find them unlikely to be a pair

Still not get it

I don't know what to tell you

Like (to you) what pairs can be potential mafia team and why? Which pairs seem unlikely to be the mafia team and why?

[Salsabil Faria]

Sigh.

Unlikely pairs:

Salsa+Enchant
Salsa+Safe
Salsa+Spartan

Enchant+Salsa
Enchant+Floo

Floo+Enchant
Floo+Spartan

Safe+Salsa
Safe+Zoomer

Zoomer+Safe
Zoomer+Spartan

Spartan+Salsa
Spartan+Floo
Spartan+Zoomer
Spartan+FaC

FaC+Spartan

Thank you so much!

[Salsabil Faria]

Anyway
VOTE: safebet

Reason?

[Salsabil Faria]

Anyway
VOTE: safebet

Reason?

No.

wasn't asking you

[Salsabil Faria]

Just finished reading the thread up to now.

Some players have found my vote switch to flow trap suspicious because I didn't want to attract suspicion (Enchant in 150 comes to mind). If I don't want to be voted out, I don't see why I shouldn't take the effort not to seem overly scummy.

Will post other thoughts soon.

Point is, your vote from

Enchant

to

flow trap

wasn't suspicious but the explanation you gave on post 139 raised suspicion cause towns don't usually bother if they look scummy. But for mafias, they have to blend in, they have to pretend to be towns, that's why 'image-conscious' is not a town thing for sure.

[Salsabil Faria]

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

I'm finding Enchant town now

[Salsabil Faria]

Other than esotericzoomer and me, who gave negative attention to safebet222 for his E-1 vote on you?

That's a loaded question

1. To a normal person, what safe did is blatantly scummy
2. Scum does not want to act scummy
3. Town does not care about acting scummy
3. Therefore mostly town would do this

Yes, I agree... I'm also leaning town on

safebet222

, which I find weird are your suspicions and the explanations for them.
And English is not my native language, sometimes I find it hard to understand what everyone is saying. That's why asking a lot of questions! So can you tell me what do you mean by

(i)

me being passive and fluffy,

(ii)

loaded question?

So, what is your native language? I am a bit of a language enthusiast.

Bengali

[Salsabil Faria]

I feel like there is 1 scum between Flow trap Vs Sal.
I don't see it as Scum Vs Scum, and it just doesn't feel like Town Vs Town to me.

I'm town for sure.

What was the point of this post?

Are you asking me?

[Salsabil Faria]

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

I'm finding Enchant town now

What a totally genuine reaction

Like you stated (361), short and sweet

[Salsabil Faria]

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

I'm finding Enchant town now

What a totally genuine reaction

Like you stated (361), short and sweet

*And dynamic

I want to ask though, it's a game based on conversation and conversation only. How 'keeping things short' will help the town find who are the mafias? Or in your case, it will help to read you?

[Salsabil Faria]

Spoiler:

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

I'm finding Enchant town now

What a totally genuine reaction

Like you stated (361), short and sweet

*And dynamic

I want to ask though, it's a game based on conversation and conversation only. How 'keeping things short' will help the town find who are the mafias? Or in your case, it will help to read you?

[/quote]

EBWOP:

how it will help others to read you?*

[Salsabil Faria]

If I'm having fun I'm town, if I'm pretending to have fun I'm not town

Not gonna take your words for that I don't know you, never played with you before, don't know your playstyle at all. It's hard to find (for me) if you're being real/faking or not. And yes, stop shading/twisting (or if you're doing both) my words and reactions.

[Salsabil Faria]

I could see salsa being one of those who like to purposefully put wolf tells to make them not wolf tells

What??? If I understand correctly, I'm doing scummy behavior purposely so that, it seems not as a scummy behavior???

[Salsabil Faria]

I didn't say you *were* doing that

You said 'being' and was shading me again. Either you're a scum or a town who is so full of themselves!

[Salsabil Faria]

I didn't say you *were* doing that

You said 'being' and was shading me again. Either you're a scum or a town who is so full of themselves!

Future tense

Doesn't matter to me, you still are full of yourself.

[Salsabil Faria]

Btw,

Fredrick A Campbell

, what are your reads about everyone at the moment?

[Salsabil Faria]

Ad hominem fallacy is not a defense, not that it required a defense

What is 'Ad hominem fallacy'? And who is defending? I'm telling you what I think about you.

[Salsabil Faria]

So i may bet, they are most likely not both mafia.

So, who do you think is the mafia between me and

esotericzoomer

?

[Salsabil Faria]

Who said there's any?

You said: "So i may bet, they are most likely not

both

mafia.

I don't know. You looking like more likely mafia than him though. Your picks like suspection of people for changing mind is like you search for excuses for accuse.

Totally wrong! My words/reactions are being twisted/shaded, I'm not doing those things. I'm vocal and up-front about my intestions.

[Salsabil Faria]

I don't like this playing the victim tone you have

[Salsabil Faria]

Fine Salsa.

Do you changed your suspects from last time?

Not yet.

[Salsabil Faria]

Responding to some questions.

Just finished reading the thread up to now.

Some players have found my vote switch to flow trap suspicious because I didn't want to attract suspicion (Enchant in 150 comes to mind). If I don't want to be voted out, I don't see why I shouldn't take the effort not to seem overly scummy.

Will post other thoughts soon.

Point is, your vote from

Enchant

to

flow trap

wasn't suspicious but the explanation you gave on post 139 raised suspicion cause towns don't usually bother if they look scummy. But for mafias, they have to blend in, they have to pretend to be towns, that's why 'image-conscious' is not a town thing for sure.

You really think it's like this.

"Hello I'm Mafia I want to blend in!" - floo
"OK Mafia" - Sal

Town doesn't want to seem scummy. There are scummy behaviors that don't benefit town at all like lurking, and there are others that do benefit town if done correctly (aggression as pointed out by Spartan). It was the beginning of the game. Being hyper-aggressive would only seem scummy at the time, no benefit because there was little to no information. So posting scummy would leave me worse off in the first place, and there wouldn't be anything good to make up for that.

Okay, after re-reading all of your posts (which are called ISO here I suppose) open-mindedly, I'm agreeing with you. You may have fewer post counts but those are meaningful (specially: 134, 355, 360 and 439) and I find these as town thought process.

[Salsabil Faria]

Salsabil Faria:

I Vanilla mafia (like this one) is not type i like.

I never heard that scum claim their role

This could come off as a joke but they follow it up with:

Vanilla Mafia i calling is boring setups like "Just townies and maybe doctor/cop/SK".

Oh, understood. It's a newbie game, so setups are limited. Do you play on big setups?

Meaning they treated it very seriously, considering they went from getting the same joke to treating a misunderstanding like this, this badly, is a bizarre jump.

-2

You gave me

-2

on that which was literally not what you thought/was seemed to you!
In post 33, I thought

Enchant

was still joking (refer: post 11), but in post 34 they explained that they meant newbie game which they find boring and in post 35 I said that I understood them and questioned them if they play big games.... which was totally a normal conversation, nothing game related cause this conversation happened on page 2 when there was nothing important to discuss.

[Salsabil Faria]

i would like to ask for towncred

[Salsabil Faria]

Salsabil - Although I think Salsabil could start using the Mafiascum wiki a bit more to learn some of the abbreviations and terminology (I still look at it all the time to decipher some of these people on this site),

Thank you for reminding me, I keep forgetting about the wiki

[Salsabil Faria]

English not my native language as well, so probably should explain this one.


Salsa asked, who i think mafia in Salsa+Zoomer, while i wondered where someone said like there's one for sure. This is answer, because i said "They probably not both mafia" and I DID NOT said "They probably not both mafia, but there's one mafia for sure".

I never said like i think there's 100% mafia in this pair, because i'm not sure in this.

I hope i explained it.

Okay...

[Salsabil Faria]

I feel like there is 1 scum between Flow trap Vs Sal.
I don't see it as Scum Vs Scum, and it just doesn't feel like Town Vs Town to me.

I'm town for sure.

What was the point of this post?

Are you asking me?

Yes.

Answer:

Spoiler:

I feel like there is 1 scum between Flow trap Vs Sal.
I don't see it as Scum Vs Scum, and it just doesn't feel like Town Vs Town to me.

I'm town for sure.

So are you trying to say you think Flow is scum, or do you disagree with what I have said here?

No, I'm not trying to say that

flow trap

is scum. I only know my alignment and it's town. So scum/scum is not possible. It can be either scum/town or town/town.

[Salsabil Faria]

Going through your ISO Enchant it's not clear to me what your thoughts are on her. You've spent a lot of time responding to her interrogations regarding terminology/which ones you should know.

Where are you at on her?

Has anything changed since 395 where you didn't have any scumreads, just the initial ping on flow? I'm curious about Frederick/safebet.

I find her somewhat suspicious for trying changing meaning of what i say and picks on mind change, but i can't really notice difference from game where i played with her.

She not using purple color for text now.

If I tried to change the meaning of your words, then I didn't bother to ask about them first, just told my opinions normally. I'm asking you the questions only because of the language barrier, I find it hard to understand your words.

[Salsabil Faria]

I feel like there is 1 scum between Flow trap Vs Sal.
I don't see it as Scum Vs Scum, and it just doesn't feel like Town Vs Town to me.

I'm town for sure.

What was the point of this post?

Are you asking me?

Yes.

So, uh, was that it for the night or is there more on the way?

[Salsabil Faria]

Btw,

Fredrick A Campbell

, what are your reads about everyone at the moment?

I don't like to publicise this. You could ask me about specific players, and I will tell you.

I could ask you about individual players in individual posts, like this:

Post 01:

Fredrick A Campbell

, what is your read on

Salsabil Faria

at the moment?

Post 02:

Fredrick A Campbell

, what is your read on

flow trap

at the moment?

Post 03:

Fredrick A Campbell

, what is your read on

Enchant

at the moment?

Post 04:

Fredrick A Campbell

, what is your read on

floo

at the moment?

Post 05:

Fredrick A Campbell

, what is your read on

safebet222

at the moment?

Post 06:

Fredrick A Campbell

, what is your read on

esotericzoomer

at the moment?

Post 07:

Fredrick A Campbell

, what is your read on

Spartan117

at the moment?

Post 08:

Fredrick A Campbell

, what is your read on

Prism

at the moment?

See? I could do this but didn't do cause

(i)

it's time-consuming, I have to study for my upcoming exams,

(ii)

it will make no difference if I want to know your reads on every players in one post, or in the different posts.

[Salsabil Faria]

Okay, so I just go through

Fredrick A Campbell

's iso, these are the things I found:
Post= 166, 169 and 173 are good, feels like a town post
Post= 212 seems opportunistic vote on

Floo

, not getting town vibe
Post= 365 by keeping

esotericzoomer

's post 444, it actually makes sense, like you tried to protect/defend your scum partner (in this case

Enchant

) there
Post= 494 here I asked your reads which is a serious question and game-related question which you avoided. But you interacted with me in those posts which were not game-related, from which I feel you're somewhat lurking at this point or want to be the second mysterious player here, not a town thing for me.

VOTE: Fredrick A Campbell

About

Prism

, their posts are less but really meaningful and can be counted almost all. Getting a good town vibe at the moment.

[Salsabil Faria]

Spoiler:

I feel like there is 1 scum between Flow trap Vs Sal.
I don't see it as Scum Vs Scum, and it just doesn't feel like Town Vs Town to me.

I'm town for sure.

What was the point of this post?

Are you asking me?

Yes.

Answer:

Spoiler:

I feel like there is 1 scum between Flow trap Vs Sal.
I don't see it as Scum Vs Scum, and it just doesn't feel like Town Vs Town to me.

I'm town for sure.

So are you trying to say you think Flow is scum, or do you disagree with what I have said here?

No, I'm not trying to say that

flow trap

is scum. I only know my alignment and it's town. So scum/scum is not possible. It can be either scum/town or town/town.

I'm pretty sure you just proved the opposite of what you were trying to prove

So you're confident about everything you think

I'm trying to do

, right? Then isn't it a good thing for you to push my wagon more? I think I'm giving you everything which you need to prove me as a scum Waiting for your long post though where you'll tell everyone why do you think I'm one of the scums, I mean at least when you'll decide it's the time for the

long and sweet

moment, not the

short and sweet

moment anymore. Also, why it is

always you

trying to get in at any conversation between

Fredrick A Campbell

and other players (earlier

Prism

, now me) except you?

[Salsabil Faria]

So you're confident about everything you think I'm trying to do, right? Then isn't it a good thing for you to push my wagon more? I think I'm giving you everything which you need to prove me as a scum Waiting for your long post though where you'll tell everyone why do you think I'm one of the scums, I mean at least when you'll decide it's the time for the long and sweet moment, not the short and sweet moment anymore. Also, why it is always you trying to get in at any conversation between Fredrick A Campbell and other players (earlier Prism, now me) except you?

1. Why would you try to disprove what you said
2. I don't feel like dealing with all the "why why whys" at the moment right now
3. I don't recall saying that
4. Tu quoque
5. Because they can't be here as much, and there's nothing wrong with a >2 person conversation
6. That only applies to Prism because I was accusing you of faulty logic; I would like to know the reason for the post now too

Actually, not everything will happen according to your wish! cause

I dOn'T fEeL lIkE gIvInG yOu aNy ReAsoN aT tHe MomEnT rIgHt nOw

.

[Salsabil Faria]

I have actually failed to finish reading the thread. Will someone explain their case against me?

Spoiler: My Case

Okay, so I just go through

Fredrick A Campbell

's iso, these are the things I found:
Post= 166, 169 and 173 are good, feels like a town post
Post= 212 seems opportunistic vote on

Floo

, not getting town vibe
Post= 365 by keeping

esotericzoomer

's post 444, it actually makes sense, like you tried to protect/defend your scum partner (in this case

Enchant

) there
Post= 494 here I asked your reads which is a serious question and game-related question which you avoided. But you interacted with me in those posts which were not game-related, from which I feel you're somewhat lurking at this point or want to be the second mysterious player here, not a town thing for me.

VOTE: Fredrick A Campbell

[Salsabil Faria]

About that, I don't find 365 as defending Enchant, but rather making a generalization of tactics

And now you're defending

Fredrick A Campbell

.

[Salsabil Faria]

Salsa, what do you currently think of Spartan?

null/

town

[Salsabil Faria]

Still reading post 444.

good luck with that

[Salsabil Faria]

Salsa, what do you currently think of Spartan?

null/

town

How much of what they are saying do you agree with

His post 136 gives me townie vibes about him first, very detailed about what he thinks and why he thinks; His interaction with me in post 266 indicates that he was trying to understand my point of view; His interaction with you also indicates that he was trying to understand you better; Post 339 is constructive, also very detailed, indicates that he takes our 1v1 conversation seriously (though I think you're a town most probably, despite being a pain in the *** ); His conversation with

Fredrick A Campbell

gives me town vibes too, I agree with post 359 for this matter; His interaction with

esotericzoomer

(specially, post 547 and 560) gives me some new perspective to think but I still townread

esotericzoomer

at the moment.

[Salsabil Faria]

About post 212, can't argue with that, as I don't know the reason you think it is opportunistic.

Same reason as

Spartan117

's, don't want to repeat it, refer to 359.

About post 365, also can't argue with that, as I don't know the reason you think I am trying to protect or defend Enchant. Also, I don't know why you even think Enchant is a mafia member.

I have my suspicion on

Enchant

, but it's not very strong at the moment. But if you two are the scum partners, then the conversation makes sense.

About post 494, I don't like to publicise my reads, as that only adds an extra variable to consider when reading players.

Refer to: 530

[Salsabil Faria]

Dear Prism,

I would like you to make your argument known to me.

Sincerely, Fredrick A Campbell

[Salsabil Faria]

Now I'm having an existential crisis over the fact I typed all of that with from a grocery store parking lot.

Goodnight y'all, see you tomorrow.

Lol!

[Salsabil Faria]

quiet replaces safebet222. Please welcome him!

Welcome!

[Salsabil Faria]

Spoiler:

Salsa, what do you currently think of Spartan?

null/

town

How much of what they are saying do you agree with

His post 136 gives me townie vibes about him first, very detailed about what he thinks and why he thinks; His interaction with me in post 266 indicates that he was trying to understand my point of view; His interaction with you also indicates that he was trying to understand you better; Post 339 is constructive, also very detailed, indicates that he takes our 1v1 conversation seriously (though I think you're a town most probably, despite being a pain in the *** ); His conversation with

Fredrick A Campbell

gives me town vibes too, I agree with post 359 for this matter; His interaction with

esotericzoomer

(specially, post 547 and 560) gives me some new perspective to think but I still townread

esotericzoomer

at the moment.

I mean, not really what I asked but I appreciate your effort

Wait, you said how much I'm agreeing with

Spartan117

's points of view, and I stated in details where I agree with him and where not

[Salsabil Faria]

I mean, just because you TR them doesn't mean you agree with them?

I'm not agreeing with him totally. Like the way he thinks about

esotericzoomer

and scumread him, not agreeing with that at the moment, though those points are good. Also about

Fredrick A Campbell

, I can relate

Spartan117

's thoughts on him and agreeing with him for now.

[Salsabil Faria]

Or maybe salsa is just the god of formatting and I’m letting my naked jealousy of their posting technique color my opinion.

Well either way, high effort high quality easy to understand posts gets a +town from me.

Hoping no one is trying to pocket me here

[Salsabil Faria]

Ah, realization

Ok I TR Salsa but very easily changeable

Oh, don't townread me! I'll not able to sleep at night

[Salsabil Faria]

Or maybe salsa is just the god of formatting and I’m letting my naked jealousy of their posting technique color my opinion.

Well either way, high effort high quality easy to understand posts gets a +town from me.

Hoping no one is trying to pocket me here

Actually, that's why I asked about Spartan

Okay, when you want to know things from me, please be very thorough with your words, as I already said, English is not my native language. Now, if you mean that if I'm trying to pocket

Spartan117

or not, the answer is no. I stated on page 10 (post 226) which was an early period of the game that I'm getting a town vibe from him, which is not changed yet.

[Salsabil Faria]

Ah, realization

Ok I TR Salsa but very easily changeable

Oh, don't townread me! I'll not able to sleep at night

Why are we staring to sound like a married couple

tell me about it!

[Salsabil Faria]

Or maybe salsa is just the god of formatting and I’m letting my naked jealousy of their posting technique color my opinion.

Well either way, high effort high quality easy to understand posts gets a +town from me.

Hoping no one is trying to pocket me here

Actually, that's why I asked about Spartan

Okay, when you want to know things from me, please be very thorough with your words, as I already said, English is not my native language. Now, if you mean that if I'm trying to pocket

Spartan117

or not, the answer is no. I stated on page 10 (post 226) which was an early period of the game that I'm getting a town vibe from him, which is not changed yet.

I meant the other way around

Nah... I don't think he tried to pocket me. Can you mention the post number where do you think the attempt to pocket me happened?

[Salsabil Faria]

Nah... I don't think he tried to pocket me. Can you mention the post number where do you think the attempt to pocket me happened?

I mean you can't be aware of a successful pocket attempt, nor do I think a pocket attempt would be done in one post

Well, I have to re-read his iso again then. But, why do you think he can be a scum?

[Salsabil Faria]

Nah... I don't think he tried to pocket me. Can you mention the post number where do you think the attempt to pocket me happened?

I mean you can't be aware of a successful pocket attempt, nor do I think a pocket attempt would be done in one post

Well, I have to re-read his iso again then. But, why do you think he can be a scum?

I've fallen for the scum tactic in #549 so many times, so I'm very wary of that

I don't get it, how 549 is a scum tactic?

[Salsabil Faria]

VOTE: Enchant

Let's see where this goes

Btw, the conversation between you and

esotericzoomer

in 647, 648 and 649 almost seems like you two have a secret private thread where both of you discussed about

Enchant

[Salsabil Faria]

yes me and flow trap plotted the big brain theater of
“can you vote enchant”
“maybe”
fooled you didnt we

[Salsabil Faria]

Is the “if at E-1 then I hammer” thing still a thing?

That was enchant yes?

Yes,

Enchant

said that; about 'still a thing or not' = not sure

[Salsabil Faria]

Your comments about 365 assume that Enchant and Fredrick are scumpartners. Let's say that Fredrick is town, however, regardless of Enchant's alignment. Then he would just be asking you to read Enchant in a different way that is more logically sound, which is perfectly normal for town to do. I haven't read/thought enough about if it is likely that Enchant and Fredrick are partners.

To me, if

Enchant

and

Fredrick A Campbell

are the scum partners, then the conversation (365) makes sense.
Yes, if

Fredrick A Campbell

is town, then it'll obviously come from a town perspective. But I find him suspicious, so the conversation in the mentioned post didn't appear to me as town.

You said in 228 that you didn't want to give Enchant the benefit of the doubt because you "don't want to get burned again." If I'm reading that as it appears, you don't want to think about Enchant with the proper assumptions because you don't want to be voted. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, you're wrong. If

Enchant

is one of the scums here, and lead the mafia team to the victory in the end, I'll be very mad genuinely, which I don't want at all.

I'm reading through your ISO and feel like half of your posts are interactions with flow trap. What's your current read on flow trap?

null/

town

at the moment

[Salsabil Faria]

I was real mafia goon btw. Outplayed myself.

GG town.

What the hell just happened!!!

[Salsabil Faria]

Ok, I think I'm going to place Salsa in the Leaning Scum but not open to shoot category

[Salsabil Faria]

Okay, i bored.

I'm not Mafia, because:

1. I'm drowning and would just claim some PR to get Counterclaimed/Get freeaway ticket for now. Easy trade of my life for PR, while with just execute, mafia would get no benefit.
2. Killing self is not in mafia interest.
3. I'm town.
4. I forgot this thing will remember later.
5. I really though i was in E-1 but sadly no. There's zero point for Mafia!Me claim mafia, because it's looking i really murder self as mafia member (which is not in mafia interest).

Disregarding than, i still want to get eluminated, because how my life is dangerous.

Now you're being a pain in the ***

[Salsabil Faria]

I was real mafia goon btw. Outplayed myself.

GG town.

What the hell just happened!!!

I claimed Mafia Goon.

Yes, I can see that

[Salsabil Faria]

Spoiler:

Okay, i bored.

I'm not Mafia, because:

1. I'm drowning and would just claim some PR to get Counterclaimed/Get freeaway ticket for now. Easy trade of my life for PR, while with just execute, mafia would get no benefit.
2. Killing self is not in mafia interest.
3. I'm town.
4. I forgot this thing will remember later.
5. I really though i was in E-1 but sadly no. There's zero point for Mafia!Me claim mafia, because it's looking i really murder self as mafia member (which is not in mafia interest).

Disregarding than, i still want to get eluminated, because how my life is dangerous.

Now you're being a pain in the ***

Kinda reason why i selfvoted.

Yes, I saw that too.... but still don't understand why you claimed to be a scum if you're a town??
Btw, how many votes you have on you at the moment?

[Salsabil Faria]

Spoiler:

Okay, i bored.

I'm not Mafia, because:

1. I'm drowning and would just claim some PR to get Counterclaimed/Get freeaway ticket for now. Easy trade of my life for PR, while with just execute, mafia would get no benefit.
2. Killing self is not in mafia interest.
3. I'm town.
4. I forgot this thing will remember later.
5. I really though i was in E-1 but sadly no. There's zero point for Mafia!Me claim mafia, because it's looking i really murder self as mafia member (which is not in mafia interest).

Disregarding than, i still want to get eluminated, because how my life is dangerous.

Now you're being a pain in the ***

Kinda reason why i selfvoted.

Yes, I saw that too.... but still don't understand why you claimed to be a scum if you're a town??
Btw, how many votes you have on you at the moment?

Why not. Only mafia knows i'm not mafia, so they would act different and i will reveal as Townie anyway. You allready saw how i slipped in 2042, when asked if you are Cop/Tracker? Well.

anyone townreading this is immediately suspicious

How?

[Salsabil Faria]

I townread myself, is i'm suspicious now?

[Salsabil Faria]

his justification's for these scummy actions are ass backwards and he's blatant scum.
either someone is being so lazy they aren't looking at the finer details of his posts or they're just scum.

Don't know about others but I'm hell confused!

[Salsabil Faria]

his justification's for these scummy actions are ass backwards and he's blatant scum.
either someone is being so lazy they aren't looking at the finer details of his posts or they're just scum.

Don't know about others but I'm hell confused!

do you not find that his reasons for claiming goon make absolutely no sense?

Claiming goon no, cause they really thought it was E-1 before they self hammered and claimed mafia goon, at least it seems like that to me. Then they again said that they are town, and gave reason which doesn't make sense to me. So I don't know what to think actually...

[Salsabil Faria]

but we're arguing for no reason here because me, you, and salsabil all scumread him lol

Though I've my suspicion on them from the beginning, I most probably didn't mention ever that I scumread them with confidence. But despite that, I don't scumread/townread them right now cause I can't literally read them.

[Salsabil Faria]

Post= 365 by keeping esotericzoomer's post 444, it actually makes sense, like you tried to protect/defend your scum partner (in this case Enchant) there

Huh.

Hey Salsa. You still credit Enchant/Fredrick as possible partners?

I don’t hate the read, I’m just not sure if scum defends scum exactly like this. Maybe they do, and if Enchant flips scum I’m absolutely going to be looking at Fredrick hard. Curious if you’ve changed your mind given the recent Enchant stuff/anything beyond where I’ve caught up.

I mean, it's not an impossible pair. I've literally no read on

Enchant

at the moment.

[Salsabil Faria]

Enchant - I think both his wish to impose new "meta" inconjunction with voting flow trap and not genuinely interacting with him despite flow having the most activity by far is cause for concern. Put that together with his ingenuine attempts at endearing himself to others. He is a current scum read.

Hey this looks good for safebet if Enchant flips scum!

Nah, not necessarily...?

[Salsabil Faria]

Last post for a bit sorry for all the spam.

Spartan vs EZ is now the most interesting thing in this thread for me. Reading further, my first impression is town v town, but I want to revisit this and see if there’s anything to pick up. I’m walking back my immediate suspicion of Spartan a bit, but there’s something there. Also:

fyi I'm not paying attention to you (flow) as whatever alignment you are, you are anti town...

Huh. I’m breaking my word. This is an open question for anyone:

Do you think that flow trap’s play is anti-town? I’m curious where people stand. I don’t think it qualifies/am not convinced that it is, but I think hearing people’s current takes on this would be useful.

I read them

null/

town

at the moment but their arrogance behavior not gets the town point sure. I never play with them before so don't know if they always behave like that or not.

[Salsabil Faria]

I can fully understand why someone would want to not give everything away and keep some of their thoughts to themselves.

I don't understand this:

"why someone would want to not give everything away and keep some of their thoughts to themselves"

. What good it does to town/what bad it does to mafia?

[Salsabil Faria]

I want Fredrick to come back and weigh in on the Enchant wagon + EZs statements (which they sort of did before).

I also would think those on the Fredrick wagon would be happy to move over to the Enchant wagon; not sure why they havnt.

Enchant

said if they are on E-1, they will hammer themselves.

[Salsabil Faria]

If it ends up not being Enchant, where do we go from there?

myself? i would reread some slots pushing this with me as i doubt mafia would stay passive/neutral in this situation
but im 99.9999999999999999999999% this is just enchant/fredrick

I'm not sure FaC is maf

Why?

[Salsabil Faria]

myself? i would reread some slots pushing this with me as i doubt mafia would stay passive/neutral in this situation
but im 99.9999999999999999999999% this is just enchant/fredrick

The only real issue from my perspective with the enchant elim is that if they flip town, we have basically no real info.

They did enough suspicious things that pushing on them early doesn't look terribly bad.

Their self-vote openclaim Mafia Goon makes them so suspicious that literally anyone can vote them without looking bad.

There might be some info to find somewhere on a push on them, but frankly, it feels like Day1 part2 if they flip town, and it feels like who gets killed at night or bad solving or something would provide more info that anyone pushing the Enchant slot.

you're being too paranoid

No, I think

quiet

has a point:

The only real issue from my perspective with the enchant elim is that if they flip town, we have basically no real info

.

[Salsabil Faria]

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

OMGUS much?

[Salsabil Faria]

I feel like there is 1 scum between Flow trap Vs Sal.
I don't see it as Scum Vs Scum, and it just doesn't feel like Town Vs Town to me.

I'm town for sure.

What was the point of this post?

Forgive me if you have answered this post, but I have not seen an answer to the post above.

Well,

Spartan117

said he saw the conversation between me and

Flow trap

is town vs scum but I think it can be town vs town too but not scum vs scum as I know I'm a town.

[Salsabil Faria]

If you get your word order wrong from now on, I think I might understand you. I don't speak Bengali, though, so it may be a lot more ambiguous to me than you think.

Bengali's grammar

If you can't understand my words then please tell me. I'll make sure to clear that as much as possible.

[Salsabil Faria]

Right now, given what I have read, my guess of the scumteam is Salsabil Faria and quiet with a higher than random chance of being right. Random chance is (1/28). Odds of right to wrong are (1:27).

[Salsabil Faria]

Salsabil Faria, I trust you to encounter my post where I ask you a question soon. I may or may not be online and may or may not be able to have a real-time talk with you.

Okay, I'm waiting for your question...

[Salsabil Faria]

Am I arrogant for saying I'm experienced?

No, you're arrogant for being arrogant! You tell who you think as a town/scum without giving any reason but when others ask about the reason, you shut them down. You make yourself hard to read for the townies, but mafias know everyone's alignments, so this mysterious behavior is not helpful at all. And your 'experience' is helping only you at the moment, not the town. While you make others to take/believe you by your words only, you on the other hand doing the opposite by saying that you don't believe anyone. As I didn't play with you before, all of these indicate arrogance to me.

[Salsabil Faria]

Looks like you won't be getting there before I can start to talk to you. Good night.

So sorry! I was reading the posts serially

[Salsabil Faria]

If it ends up not being Enchant, where do we go from there?

myself? i would reread some slots pushing this with me as i doubt mafia would stay passive/neutral in this situation
but im 99.9999999999999999999999% this is just enchant/fredrick

I'm not sure FaC is maf

Why?

Has not used emoji

and again ignoring the question but want to talk about emoji!!

[Salsabil Faria]

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

OMGUS much?

That's an unfair assessment as a lot of people are suspecting them

You don't tell me what I'll think.

[Salsabil Faria]

Gonna be around for a bit, does anyone have any questions they would like to ask me, or engage in dialogue about anything?

Yeah, let's kill

flow trap

[Salsabil Faria]

No, you're arrogant for being arrogant! You tell who you think as a town/scum without giving any reason but when others ask about the reason, you shut them down.

Proceeds to shut me down:

and again ignoring the question but want to talk about emoji!!

[Salsabil Faria]

Looks like you won't be getting there before I can start to talk to you. Good night.

So sorry! I was reading the posts serially

Btw, you can tell me at what time (universal time) you usually be online, I'll try to be online that time if possible.

[Salsabil Faria]

I told you why I though they were town

Where!!!???

[Salsabil Faria]

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

OMGUS much?

That's an unfair assessment as a lot of people are suspecting them

You don't tell me what I'll think.

how is that a sequitur response to what I said at all?

As I'm getting used to your responses, you should get used to mine.

[Salsabil Faria]

I told you why I though they were town

Where!!!???

882

Fredrick A Campbell

"has not used emoji" and for this reason you townread him?

[Salsabil Faria]

Why you yell at each other, i'm not understand.

No one is yelling

[Salsabil Faria]

I told you why I though they were town

Where!!!???

882

Fredrick A Campbell

"has not used emoji" and for this reason you townread him?

Do you see why I didn't want to tell you know?

[Salsabil Faria]

Ok, I'm just gonna assume you're always going to say the opposite of what I think you're going to say

I still don't understand what you are trying to say!

[Salsabil Faria]

preach

[Salsabil Faria]

While you make others to take/believe you by your words only

False. I really don't care what you think, how arrogant of you to assume everything is about you, and that I need to be readable for you.

Joke of the year!! Now I'm arrogant!!!
This game is based on reading people. If

you don't think you don't need to be readable

(which is not by me only, others also think that), then you're in the wrong game!
Nothing I said/am saying/will say which indicated/indicates/will indicate that

everything is about me

, NEVER!!! It'll be the last time I'll do any interaction with you btw. If I'll ever get lucky, then most probably it'll be the last time to play with you too!

[Salsabil Faria]

Killing me when?

Later,

Fredrick A Campbell

and I have some conversation to do.

[Salsabil Faria]

Hey Salsa! How did you read Fred’s recent set of posts?

I find their lack of...content or reads or good faith engagement with arguments (as in, the “I can’t respond to you unless there is something specific to respond to” or “I ignored your post about your suspicions on me because that was just your opinion and you can’t argue opinion”) as a fairly polarizing take; they are either very scummy for it, or very town.

He is going passive (it's the right word I believe, if not then correct me please), so my reads are the same for now. I'm waiting to have a one to one conversation with him, hope I can find something more about me then.

[Salsabil Faria]

Later, Fredrick A Campbell and I have some conversation to do.

Maybe lay out like, 3 really really concrete things you want Freddy to respond to. I get the sense that they are a rather literal, concrete person, and they have previously been disinterested in responding to “opinion” based rhetoric or suspicions.

For my own curiosity, what do you feel like you need from Fred?

He has question for me:

Salsabil Faria, I trust you to encounter my post where I ask you a question soon. I may or may not be online and may or may not be able to have a real-time talk with you.

Looks like you won't be getting there before I can start to talk to you. Good night.

[Salsabil Faria]

UNVOTE:

Just hit the reads list from Enchant.

and?

[Salsabil Faria]

im sorry luca, i get your frustration now

[Salsabil Faria]

The whole vote/unvote thing becomes hilarious af

[Salsabil Faria]

Damn! You will be avenged

esotericzoomer

[Salsabil Faria]

My vote is in the same place:

VOTE: Fredrick A Campbell

[Salsabil Faria]

Also I want to tell everyone, my semester final will place on 28th January, my activity here will depend on when and what time I'll take a break from my study. Specially on 27th January, I may not be able to be active in the thread that much. Sorry for the inconvenience in advance.

[Salsabil Faria]

Reasons to kill esotericzoomer:

Widely townread?

esotericzoomer was more of a "passive townread," in that he was away from scrutiny in the final leg of Day 1. He had his share of scummy lines to justify a vote. Prism or myself would be a better choice for this reason.

Scumreads

His other scumread was Fredrick. There are other players who scumread Fredrick, so killing EZ would be a poor choice. Fredrick is somewhat vindicated by Enchant's town flip. Plus, EZ's 100% confidence about scumreading Enchant would have blocked his chances of pushing a further scumread.

I think there are two plausible reasons then. The two reasons I mentioned above would not be the main reasons to kill, but could be secondary ones.
- Probable power role. I have not read enough into EZ's posts to see where this is implied though.
- Avoid Doctor/Jailkeeper. This is a hybrid reason which combines "widely townread" and/or "scumreads."

Don't get your points, can you elaborate more please?

[Salsabil Faria]

I’m interested in why the push on Fredrick happened, and why it’s still happening. Trying to decide if it’s a good wagon today. I think I’m inclined to hunt somewhere else, but if other people want to champion that I’ll be very interested.

Fredrick A Campbell

doesn't give me anything to townread him yet.

[Salsabil Faria]

My vote is in the same place:

VOTE: Fredrick A Campbell

You vote quick. How does the Enchant flip change your read of Fredrick?

'He can be partnered with

Enchant

' this thought process of mine is changed, other than that everything is intect for now.

[Salsabil Faria]

I agree that is true but I don't see why he is even somewhat vindicated when he was being scumread before them interactions occurred, Floo how do you feel about Prism? Would you be willing to join a wagon on them today?

I don't townread Prism. A lot of vote pressure/suspicion would be the best way to get a read out of a player who stays under the radar by just contributing a lot. I'm open to voting Prism, but I would prefer voting Salsabil Faria, who stays out of suspicion for the same reason as Prism.

So, 'contribution' is a term for scum reading I'm not the top contributor of this thread though

[Salsabil Faria]

My vote is in the same place:

VOTE: Fredrick A Campbell

You vote quick. How does the Enchant flip change your read of Fredrick?

I get the impression they assumed we would pick up d2 where we left off on d1 with a wagon on Fredrick and while I am still sus of them, I want to see more from them first, I want to see them actively try and solve the game.

First of all, I'm a

She

. Second of all, I didn't assume anything but

you assumed that I assumed something

! Which is ridiculous tdh. I found

Fredrick A Campbell

suspicious on day 1, I still found him suspicious on day 2, so I voted him. This is my way of solving the game.

[Salsabil Faria]

Salsabil Faria, who stays out of suspicion for the same reason as Prism

I felt like there were a few occasions that Salsabil seemed very worried about coming off sus and their behaviour being seen as scummy, which was suspicious to me. I saw them presenting themselves similar to Quiet and Prism with their content and seeming townie but felt like they were more concerned about seeming townie.

where exactly?

[Salsabil Faria]

you're being too paranoid

This sounds scummy tbh

not being confident in your reads and double-checking everything will drive town into ruin

Having confidence in your reads when you have no reason to place that confidence in your reads will bring you to incorrect conclusions.

He is dead and flipped town cop.

[Salsabil Faria]

Salsa, you get almost indignant with your posts sometimes when responding to people lobbing suspicion your way. Do you think that’s AI at all?

I can't tell you that actually, it's literally up to your point of view.

[Salsabil Faria]

I suspect that the easiest way to solve this is to just get a scum flip and force the NK. I am not sure Frederick is it, but I am sure the game will be much easier one way or another when he starts playing.

But we can't afford another miselimination, right? What should we do then if we fail to find a scum this time?

[Salsabil Faria]

I suspect the mafia is comprised of Spartan11 and flow trap.

VOTE: Spartan11

Reasons?

[Salsabil Faria]

I refuse to place my vote on you now as I do not wish to put you to L-1 at this moment in time when D2 has only just begun, I do not want you or your scum buddy to come along and hammer you, there is still much discussion to be had and people to hear from, and after all there are 2 scum.

Mafia team need a miselimination to secure their win now, I don't think if

Fredrick A Campbell

is one of the scums here, his scum buddy will hammer him at this stage.

[Salsabil Faria]

Salsa, you get almost indignant with your posts sometimes when responding to people lobbing suspicion your way. Do you think that’s AI at all?

True, Sal mocked many scumreads/suspicion on her meaninglessly (like with emojis) while not necessarily refuting them.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

I'm finding Enchant town now

Ok, I think I'm going to place Salsa in the Leaning Scum but not open to shoot category

Right now, given what I have read, my guess of the scumteam is Salsabil Faria and quiet with a higher than random chance of being right. Random chance is (1/28). Odds of right to wrong are (1:27).

It's irrationally defensive at best, arrogantly scummy at worst. The underlying thought process in any case is "I'm so towny, how could someone scumread me?"

Joke of the year!! Now I'm arrogant!!!

Yes, you're arrogant.

I second that. Not your vote but your explanation is suspicious : "

to avoid seeming scummy"

Ironically, you're outspokenly image-conscious as seen by the posts in the spoiler.

VOTE: Salsabil Faria for now

[Salsabil Faria]

So I'm jumping on the Salsa wagon today. Other wagons I'd consider: Prism, Floo, because I sure as hell aren't going to be able to sort them by reading them. No interest in a Fred vote today, I think enough people can eliminate that slot if my gut is wrong about that one without me. When I get a moment, I'm going to see if defensive towny vibes are a thing for Salsa generally, or if this is a deviation, because I'm still early enough in my mafia career to enjoy meta.

VOTE: Salsabil

I like this. Though I don't have anything to say to you at the moment, if you have any question, ask please.

[Salsabil Faria]

d Salsa posted a bit on page 44-45.

Maybe you missed it, but I already mentioned in post 1041 that I'm busy with my studies during semester final.

[Salsabil Faria]

I remain feeling decently good that I was disqualified from a NK by virtue of being in scumpools day1.

If I remember right, you told this twice already. To me, it looks like scum!you are trying hard to put a dilemma that you were not a night kill at night 1, so it certifies that you are a town and as your replacement slot was scumread by some people, which indicates that scums spared you from the night kill for this.

[Salsabil Faria]

Your gut reaction to a scumread is to do the exact same thing I scumread you for lmao

[Salsabil Faria]

This weirdly looks more like picking a fight than a legitimate push.

I can't even remember what I did to him that he is so mad at me

[Salsabil Faria]

Salsa, I suspect quite, what do you think of that?

VOTE: Quiet

Seems like he is playing the LAMIST card (refer: 1129) at the moment. Day 1 and Day 2 playing style of his is different, specially after the

esotericzoomer

's flip.

[Salsabil Faria]

I'm trying to quote another game but I can't figure out how to (the server says something like "Forum is locked"), so I'll just post links to relevant posts from other games Sal has played. Newbie 2035 has no relevant posts to the current discussion, and Newbie 2042 is ongoing (I did not read that). Because the entire length of each one of these completed games is shorter than our Day One and Sal has mostly stayed under the radar as town, I have found only one relevant example.

Newbie 2039
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12298058
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12299804
In this game we see Salsabil responding to a bad accusation (I agree that triple posting is a bad reason for a scumread). She asks the accuser to substantiate their vote and, when the reason is stated, calls it out as a "crappy reason" and asks them to argue rationally. All while including elements of mocking/dismissiveness/flippantness (whatever you want to call it) mixed into her language. Big difference from this game.

Yes, it is.

esotericzoomer

mentioned it on his wall of ratings/reads thing. I'm trying to improve my gameplay in each game. It doesn't matter if I win this game or not, but I can say that I improved a lot in this game, specially on reading people from the posts and I'm proud of myself for this.

[Salsabil Faria]

Key:
Yellow - Neutral due to little interaction
Gray - Neutral due to equal evidence both ways
Green - More likely
Orange - Less Likely

Salsa + Spartan: Salsa's TR on Spartan felt like they were not partners here; if Spartan is mafia I don't see Salsa being one as if they were scum their actions felt mildly pockety

Prism + Quiet: While I do think this combo would NK Zoomer, Prism has been at Safe's throat the entire time, and then when Quiet showed up Prism started being helpful to them, so I saw some town emotions in play

Salsa + FaC: Overall neutral but FaC had some questionable actions towards Salsa, but I found Salsa's actions towards FaC felt non-teammate; May NK zoomer

Floo + FaC: Spartan called FaC's vote on Floo odd and I don't think that would be an SvS situation, even if Spartan is mafia making it up, they still can't be partners

Quiet + FaC: I think this team would NK Zoomer otherwise haven't read into this that much tbh

Prism + FaC: If Prism is indeed setting up town to fail in the way I'm thinking, then FaC couldn't be their partner; I lean town on both of them anyways

It's getting funnier

[Salsabil Faria]

I think that and a few other things added up in my head (I’m also thinking of how aware Salsa was of the town/scum wincon of “oh jeez we really need to not get another miselim today or we are in big trouble”, that’s not something I think most people say or being up or are deeply counting day2) to make me start feeling like a scumSalsa world could be a thing. It doesn’t help that so many people in this thread are towny as hell or capable of playing very pro-town, so my AoE is really small.

Spoiler:

If we shoot FaC and they flip town we are in a really bad position

I suspect that the easiest way to solve this is to just get a scum flip and force the NK. I am not sure Frederick is it, but I am sure the game will be much easier one way or another when he starts playing.

But we can't afford another miselimination, right? What should we do then if we fail to find a scum this time?

[Salsabil Faria]

Also I'm in the middle of writing some reads / elaborating on why I scumread Salsabil. It looks like an essay, and I won't be able to finish it until tomorrow.

When my flip will be happened, I want to imagine your face that time, I bet it'll be the most hilarious thing if you're a town but if you're one of the scums, then you're playing really good.

[Salsabil Faria]

Also I'm in the middle of writing some reads / elaborating on why I scumread Salsabil. It looks like an essay, and I won't be able to finish it until tomorrow.

Christ, I already TR this without having read said essay.

So what I'm coming to realize is that we have four very pro town slots.

Floo writes a 5 paragraph essay with MLA citations (anticipated publication date early 2021)
Prism gets genuinely hurt/concerned that I'm using their aspirations of being a diplomat to scumread them, generally tries to break up fights
FlowTrap makes not one but two partner charts with clearly considered and detailed takes for each, generally plays relaxed and in accordance with their chaos meta
Spartan posts their long, detailed, point by point responses with receipts

I'm sitting here trying to determine if any of these people make these same plays as scum. Spartan's seems the most replicable as scum on the surface, but honestly, metadive shows them even more verbose and detailed than usual, and I'm really struggling to see why scumSpartan would be working quite this hard. Today's posts have also been good. I like the slot.

But the exact scumworld of {Fred, Salsa} does not feel correct to me. That partnership doesn't make a ton of sense, and Fred makes my miselim spidey senses tingle. So one of these +town players is probably not town, but...how. Like I know I'm town, and I look at my posts like, all of these people are playing way better as town than I am. So that's unfortunate.

If you're a town, then nothing will ever make sense to you if you think that I'm one of the scums here cause I'm not. And it's applicable to all the townies (and only the townies) who are so sure that I'm scum here. I really don't know what to say to all of you right now so that you will believe me, my head is literally empty.

[Salsabil Faria]

Spartan117

, hope you don't forget about my 1080 post.

[Salsabil Faria]

Also I'm in the middle of writing some reads / elaborating on why I scumread Salsabil. It looks like an essay, and I won't be able to finish it until tomorrow.

When my flip will be happened, I want to imagine your face that time, I bet it'll be the most hilarious thing if you're a town but if you're one of the scums, then you're playing really good.

This is something I said as town back when I had no clue what I was doing

All concentration is right now for my final exam only, so if it seems like that to you, can be true. After my exam, I can think properly actually.

[Salsabil Faria]

So which of my townreads in Floo, Spartian, Prism, Flow Trap is scummy?

It's you actually

Also good luck with your final! You got this!

[Salsabil Faria]

It's you actually

Yes well unfortunately I know that solution doesn’t work, so I need an alternative one. I will agree that solving is a lot simpler if I am scum though.

Alas.

Pick a different one.

You and

Fredrick A Campbell

Also, it's easier but that doesn't necessarily mean that it can't happen.

[Salsabil Faria]

1.

when a debate about a scumread on her gets dragged out enough, she uses an excuse of "I don't care" / "That's only your opinion" /

"You're a hypocrite"

/ etc.

2.

There's a line between "the scumreads on me don't matter, I'll just hunt for scum" versus

"the people who scumread me are stupid."

I'm seeing the latter from Salsabil Faria.

I usually behave exactly as the other person behaves with me. If you want to or even need to use

strong words

for me for whatever reason, please keep in mind that, in my reply, the exact amount of harshness will be present. For getting favor from others about your read on me, doesn't need to disrespect me in the way. I'm ignoring you cause I don't want to fight with you as I need to clear my mind before the exam. So I'll interact with you properly after my exam.

1.

"I don't care" / "That's only your opinion" : This part is actually correct but this

"You're a hypocrite"

is way wrong! I never meant anything like that with my posts/interactions here.

2.

"the people who scumread me are stupid."

: This is also very equally wrong! No one is stupid here, the main difference among all of us is

experience

and less experienced people are not stupid!

[Salsabil Faria]

Explain your reads and don't respond with an "I don't care"

This part shows that you're really desperate to pick up a fight with me. The whole

flow trap

vs me thing was happening for a long enough time but you didn't bother to interfere then. Now you're using this fraction of my arguments to make me look bad??? Guess what,

I really don't care!!

Joke of the year!! Now I'm arrogant!!!

Yes, you're arrogant.

[Salsabil Faria]

Spoiler:

flow trap interaction

544 reminds me of the arrogance that she will not be scumread. "I think I'm giving you everything which you need to prove me as a scum" and you'll soon figure you can't, is what she is saying. Inviting someone to write a scumread case against you (with a negative tone too) would be the opposite of what Sal wants considering her overall defensiveness. If she's town, it's an emotional reaction driven by anger to hammer in a point.

If she's scum, the best course of action is not responding at all. The reaction then is emotional or instinctive, ultimately irrational. I will read Sal’s interactions to see which emotions are at play. Towny emotions include a willingness to help other players amid debate, and sincere frustration. Scummy emotions include fear in that she prefers hiding away to talking, and overdefensiveness.

Regardless of whether she’s town or scum, I think the dismissive and flippant comments (using Prism’s wording) are a mental defense mechanism. Her style is to mock and dismiss negative comments in advance of a more serious response or using an excuse to avoid a conversation (which is itself for mental defense). Unfortunately, I haven’t found another game to see if this is natural for her.

544 doesn’t suggest towny helpfulness, as it is sarcastic and snarky. It reveals a fighting rather than talking attitude to a mid-D1 scumlean, which wouldn’t even put her close to the stake. It's overdefensive panicking - scummy.

553 responds to flow trap’s accusations in the same conversation as 544. Sal evades responding to flow trap’s questions about why her prior post might not make sense in terms of logic and clarity of ideas. She calls out flow trap for hypocrisy and uses this as an excuse to ignore.

Explaining her post could avoid flow trap’s scumread (and benefit town) for both town and scum Sal. There are two explanations for suboptimal play then: she realizes her post is scummy and prefers to avoid it entirely, or she is angry. The former explanation doesn’t seem likely since she could just apologize for her negative tone. It’s also hard to see why town would be so angry about someone just pointing out one weird post about them, so I think this is scum overdefensiveness too.

Enchant interaction + sidenote

413 is very defensive, calling Enchant "totally wrong" and accusing them of "twist[ing]/shad[ing]" her words. Even while Enchant was not the hot scumread, the wording of this post suggests that Enchant is Mafia manipulating the evidence rather than a possibly incorrect player who could be town or scum. This is definitely a retaliatory attitude that is not helpful for anyone who is trying to read her.

When flow trap calls Sal out for a "victim tone” (a good way to describe it), she responds by a GIF "I don't care" (416). Rather than apologize as town for counterproductive tone, she shuts down further discussion. Her fear of being scumread is stronger than her motivation to scumhunt. Pointing out one scummy thing in an overall townread could anger her, which is actually the case with the response to EZ’s townread in 523.

Final Notes

At the time I started being rude to Sal (1108), as explained, I took the negative tone because I noticed Sal’s overdefensiveness and emotionality (if that’s a word). I would never have done this to a player who would counter me rationally and calmly, which I’d expect everyone else alive to do (except flow trap, who I townread anyway).

I don’t want to comment on her interactions with me today, as I still want to see how they play out.

Where do I exactly interact with you rudely first??? You're the one who started this rude behavior with me! How do I behave with

flow trap

is not f**k**g your business in the first place! You'll be rude first then also except that I'll behave with you

pOliEtLy

, like it's a joke or something!? When you really want to play lawyer for your dearest

flow trap

, why didn't you say anything when they vs me was actually happening??? Actually guess what, I change my mind, don't want to do any interaction with you ever.

[Salsabil Faria]

1. 553 is calling flow trap a hypocrite. Whether you're town or scum, you're avoiding discussion.
2. I got the feeling that "the people who scumread me are stupid" by your negative tones directed toward other players, in different phases of the game and of different experiences.

We have two choices. We can either:
a. continue our shouting match
b. discuss civilly
Please choose one.

c. ignoring you for life!

[Salsabil Faria]

Congrats

Prism

,

Spartan117

!

You guys really deserve to win

[Salsabil Faria]

Salsabil's got lost in Enchant's spoiler

Spoiler: Salsabil

In general, you were a pleasure to play with, and I found flow trap similarly abrasive as times. Simultaneously, floo/flow trap were right that your reaction was throwing gas on the fire. It’s on you to successfully link up as town, and sometimes that means really, REALLY going out of your way to accommodate people you entirely disagree with.

Thank you so much, I'll keep that in my mind.