Newbie 2051: Iceland! - End!

[esotericzoomer]

ego

[esotericzoomer]

A couple of questions for everyone...

What's your experience with mafia?
Why do you like to play mafia in general and forum mafia specifically?

This is my 5th forum game, third one in the last few months. I also have played some chat mafia. I think Mafia is fascinating and suspenseful and I like the fact that its mainly people younger than myself that play. I prefer forum mafia over chat mafia because my mind doesn't work so fast and I naturally am careful with what I write.

On mafiascum only 1 game but I am very mildly experienced, rules are that as long as you are new to the site specifically, you play newbie games.

[esotericzoomer]

It's my third game on the forum.

I more like chat mafia, because it fast placed.
At general, i don't know why i love. Vanilla mafia (like this one) is not type i like.

Personally I love vanilla, it makes people a lot more dependant on their reads.

[esotericzoomer]

Any tips on how to read someone?

None, there is no wrong way to read a player.
From time to time everyone has poor reasoning or gets it wrong thenselves.

[esotericzoomer]

oh

ik that’s definitely not what you asked for but still lol

[esotericzoomer]

are these still rvs votes or nah

[esotericzoomer]

then whys this being pushed

[esotericzoomer]

yeah im completely lost as to why this is l-2

[esotericzoomer]

We should start from something.

but what are you starting from
people just randomly tacked on votes to them without a sliver of explanation or progression so i'm completely lost

[esotericzoomer]

Not_Mafia is a person who plays on this site..

And he lolhammers.

I don't want this scenario to repeat.

Eh... I didn't see his name on the player list...

VOTE: flow trap

That's E-1. My theory is nobody's dumb enough to hammer.

Or you can just not put it on e-1??????

[esotericzoomer]

what the actual fuck is this spontaneous wagon

[esotericzoomer]

yeah i am 100% suspicious of safebet after that

[esotericzoomer]

yeah i am 100% suspicious of safebet after that

Why? Like what motivation do I have to do that as scum?

Where's your motivation to do that as town? There's no positives from dancing around flow traps wagon like this.

[esotericzoomer]

yeah i am 100% suspicious of safebet after that

Why? Like what motivation do I have to do that as scum?

Where's your motivation to do that as town? There's no positives from dancing around flow traps wagon like this.

Reactions... Gotta have reactions to start getting somewhere.

[esotericzoomer]

So what were you going to do? Twiddle your thumbs until sxum raise their hand and say, "Its me!"

What are you gonna do, risk having potential harmful effects on town and make yourself look like a wolf?
There's plenty of different ways to reaction test, putting someone on e-1 doesn't achieve anything.

[esotericzoomer]

So what were you going to do? Twiddle your thumbs until sxum raise their hand and say, "Its me!"

What are you gonna do, risk having potential harmful effects on town and make yourself look like a wolf?
There's plenty of different ways to reaction test, putting someone on e-1 doesn't achieve anything

this early in the game

.

ebwop

[esotericzoomer]

It seemed like a town play to me, what scum wants this kind of negative attention this early on

The only person he's gotten negative attention from is me.

[esotericzoomer]

yeah i am 100% suspicious of safebet after that

Why? Like what motivation do I have to do that as scum?

If anyone/your scum partner hammered at that point, it would definitely benefit the team mafia cause

(i)

if you are the mafia then you know

flow trap

is a town, so a miselimination would occur and,

(ii)

the day would over without discussing anything, the town would stay behind.
Can't find any town motivation from your E-1 vote.

Then you're not thinking hard enough

Still no town motivation behind your E-1 vote, flow trap gave literally 0 AI reactions to any of the pressure put on them.

[esotericzoomer]

So right now, for me, FoS is pointing at EZ and Spartan.

EZ for an unnatural response to my flow vote and Spartan for voting there when he did. Easy to slip by sandwiched between votes on a flash wagon.

image redacted ~f

[esotericzoomer]

woah thats huge
my bad

[esotericzoomer]

It seemed like a town play to me, what scum wants this kind of negative attention this early on

The only person he's gotten negative attention from is me.

I believe this is known as the hummingbird effect

It's really not, I just have a differing opinion on theory.

[esotericzoomer]

Still no town motivation behind your E-1 vote, flow trap gave literally 0 AI reactions to any of the pressure put on them.

Well, they thought I was a new player, so they should expect one

You were already on E-2 prior for a decent amount of time and gave literally nothing, he does not benefit by making such a forced reaction test.

[esotericzoomer]

I believe you're focusing on the outcome and not their intended outcome

Their reaction test seems super fake, that's that.
Scum motivation - Making a risky reaction test to a controversial wagon, cause chaos and come out townie.
Town motivation - uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[esotericzoomer]

I mean "Making a risky reaction test to a controversial wagon, cause chaos and come out townie." could also be town motivation

no

[esotericzoomer]

Hi my name is safebet. I am scum. Let's put someone at E-1 for 18 minutes. That seems like a great scum strat...

great town strat!

[esotericzoomer]

EZ, would you agree that mafia doesn't want attention?

No not at all. Being the loudest voice in the room can help you control town or at the very least blend in.
Depends on how anxious the player is.

Players who intentionally fly under the radar are going to be noticed and come under fire.

[esotericzoomer]

To FaC

fac?

[esotericzoomer]

anyway I'm hopping off for a bit

[esotericzoomer]

EZ, would you agree that mafia doesn't want attention?

No not at all. Being the loudest voice in the room can help you control town or at the very least blend in.
Depends on how anxious the player is.

Players who intentionally fly under the radar are going to be noticed and come under fire.

So town would fly under the radar more?

No? Town would commit, create reads, and not cause confusion.

[esotericzoomer]

EZ, would you agree that mafia doesn't want attention?

No not at all. Being the loudest voice in the room can help you control town or at the very least blend in.
Depends on how anxious the player is.

Players who intentionally fly under the radar are going to be noticed and come under fire.

So town would fly under the radar more?

No? Town would commit, create reads, and not cause confusion.

I created no confusion... I comitted to geting this game moving...and it worked. Plus, I didn't like enchant trying to impose some new fangled meta on us.

highly debateable

[esotericzoomer]

Other than esotericzoomer and me, who gave negative attention to safebet222 for his E-1 vote on you?

That's a loaded question

1. To a normal person, what safe did is blatantly scummy
2. Scum does not want to act scummy
3. Town does not care about acting scummy
3. Therefore mostly town would do this

I completely disagree with TSTBS as a whole.
Completely ineffective at figuring out a players alignment.

[esotericzoomer]

I feel like there is 1 scum between Flow trap Vs Sal.
I don't see it as Scum Vs Scum, and it just doesn't feel like Town Vs Town to me.

Other than that my main scum reads are EZ who I feel is being disingenuous in relation to that early waggon and has felt fake in some of their posts, and Fredrick who has been lurking and still yet to provide any meaningful content, could be typical scum trying to stay under the radar while still seeming active.

It’s very easy to slap a label like that on me when I’ve done the most rational thing a town member should do in reaction to that dumpster fire of a wagon.

[esotericzoomer]

I completely disagree with TSTBS as a whole.

What is TSTBS?

Too scummy to be scum.
Its simply flawed, as our ability to perceive scum increases, scum looks scummier. As our ability to hide increases, scum looks less scummy. Its a varying scale that slides during the evolution of our play.

[esotericzoomer]

Too scummy to be scum.
Its simply flawed, as our ability to perceive scum increases, scum looks scummier. As our ability to hide increases, scum looks less scummy. Its a varying scale that slides during the evolution of our play.

Don't locktown a player for scummy shit.
That's the worst shit I've ever heard.

[esotericzoomer]

I quoted my post for reference*

[esotericzoomer]

Analysing for pairs just aint it chief

[esotericzoomer]

I do what works

It's a gateway to getting stuck in confbias
Anyway
VOTE: safebet

[esotericzoomer]

That makes no sense

It absolutely does, when you are analysing pairs prior to any concrete information or flips you will get empty confidence in your reads, this then can warp into confbias.

[esotericzoomer]

That makes no sense

It absolutely does, when you are analysing pairs prior to any concrete information or flips you will get empty confidence in your reads, this then can warp into confbias.

I am experienced enough to not do that

I'm not gonna take you on your word

[esotericzoomer]

I do what works

It's a gateway to getting stuck in confbias
Anyway
VOTE: safebet

That's ironic coming from you considering that the only real thing you've done so far is scumread me and defend your actions to anyone who cares to differ. Talk about skirting on conf bias.

Hammering in a personal scumtell constantly is not confbias
its being stubborn lol

[esotericzoomer]

What's the difference?

confbias, in the case of mafia, you’re so convinced someone is scum that everyone of their posts look scummy.
Being stubborn is just that, stubborn.

[esotericzoomer]

@safe @EZ since you guys are about what do you think of Fredrick so far?

He’s not exactly the most committed player to making reads or just talking in general.
While that’s not AI it makes me forget he’s even there at times which I don’t like.

[esotericzoomer]

Reminder: I exist.

What if you lying and not existing actually?
...

My existence demonstrates that I exist.

profound

[esotericzoomer]

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

I'm finding Enchant town now

What a totally genuine reaction

this is a completely nai reaction
but i like the cut of your jib

[esotericzoomer]

Maybe you should give some ways/ask me questions, and my head start working, otherwise i will just blindly walk here.

What do you think of Salsa+Zoomer interactions?

there is none

[esotericzoomer]

Esoteric, do you have any reads besides safebet?

gimme a bit

[esotericzoomer]

I see other players passing esotericzoomer for questioning the flow trap wagon for a difference in gameplay philosophy. The problem is he was too insistent in his complaint even though flow trap was at zero chance to actually die. There was no harm in the wagon while he yelled that there was no gain. That makes me think EZ was insincere. Besides he has no reads besides the convenient safebet scumread needed to vote him even though he talks Mafia theory and debates the little town/scumtells other people have pointed out. Scumlean on esotericzoomer currently.

please wait mate
im coming out with a huge wall of reads and its taking a long ass time

[esotericzoomer]

Esoteric, do you have any reads besides safebet?

gimme a bit

I have been making it since this post so it's been two hours since I started working on it.
I feel like my pfp lol

[esotericzoomer]

are ya ready boys

[esotericzoomer]

Spoiler: wall of justice

One thing to get out of the way first, is I will be using a very bizarre method of reading players because this idea came to me spontaneously.
I will assign

numerical values

to each individual post I quote of each player, positive means townie, negative means scummy, each player starts off at 0 and at the end of their individual iso-dive I'll tally up the numbers and that'll be my read for the player.

I also felt like doing a huge analysis wall because I feel I haven't contributed much.

10+ = townread
5+ = townlean
0+ = nulltown
0- = nullscum
5- = scumlean
10- = scumread

Salsabil Faria:

Hi everyone Good to see you again Enchant and esotericzoomer

I know reading into openings is never so positive, but I don't think scum comes off this welcoming.

+0.5

Hello. This is my first game on this site.

How to play as Mafia Goon? What it do?

Really dude!!! Stop joking around

I love this progression from Newbie 2046 Salsabil to now. A player (Scipio1) did this exact same thing and she fell for it. A very genuine reaction here.

+1

I Vanilla mafia (like this one) is not type i like.

I never heard that scum claim their role

This could come off as a joke but they follow it up with:

Vanilla Mafia i calling is boring setups like "Just townies and maybe doctor/cop/SK".

Oh, understood. It's a newbie game, so setups are limited. Do you play on big setups?

Meaning they treated it very seriously, considering they went from getting the same joke to treating a misunderstanding like this, this badly, is a bizarre jump.

-2

Yeeaaah.

So i'm not good at game, where main source of info is people yelling on each other.

Dude, you won Newbie 2046 by fooling the town perfectly! If you are not good, don't know who can be!!

Being supportive is always townie.

+0.5

yeah i am 100% suspicious of safebet after that

Why? Like what motivation do I have to do that as scum?

If anyone/your scum partner hammered at that point, it would definitely benefit the team mafia cause

(i)

if you are the mafia then you know

flow trap

is a town, so a miselimination would occur and,

(ii)

the day would over without discussing anything, the town would stay behind.
Can't find any town motivation from your E-1 vote.

Then you're not thinking hard enough

I don't think it's up to you that you will decide if I'm thinking hard or not. We are different, so our points of view will be different too.

I like the reaction here, plain and simple.

+0.5

I'm getting town vibe (for now) from

safebet222

,

esotericzoomer

and

Spartan117

. Not getting town vibe (for now) from

flow trap

,

Enchant

and

floo

. Not getting any kind of vibe (for now) from

Prism

and

Fredrick A Campbell

.

After being flamed (by me) in 2046 for not supplying enough content and being very passive, I like this progression in their meta.

+1

Drawing attention and posting a lot is different

Well, rather post count and attention drawn don't correlate

Don't agree, if a scum wants to read as a town, need to/can draw attention by faking and posting helpful stuff for the town.

mindmeld

+0.5

it's not a loaded question, you actually did this: townread those who voted you, stated suspicions/voted who didn't like the E-1 vote on you

I was talking about "Other than esotericzoomer and me, who gave negative attention to safebet222 for his E-1 vote on you?"

Yes I know you were talking about that and my answer is still the same: it was not a loaded question. Also, it seems like you make up your mind, like I'm talking to a wall at this point.

Townie annoyance, standard town!salsabil as seen in other games.

+0.5

(Insert the whole salsabil v. flow trap)

The interactions coming from both parties are very townie, this was a healthy battle.

+2

Total:

4.5

Nulltown

flow trap:

What's your experience with mafia?
Why do you like to play mafia in general and forum mafia specifically?

Secret (:oops:) & Real time games stress me out

Not particularly indicative of alignment as it's off-topic, but this post radiates genuineness and I feel like mafia members would come off fake and seem like they have a hidden agenda.

+0.5

Whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhy

I like the reaction here, seems like town who's super confused about a stated 'serious' vote but playing along assuming it's a joke.

+0.5

I'd rather not have a first death rate of 100%

Then don't die.

Thx :/

A very positive, light-hearted interaction between enchant and flow trap here.

+0.5

It seemed like a town play to me, what scum wants this kind of negative attention this early on

scum!flowtrap has no reason to defend safebet, let alone acknowledge I was pushing them, while they are absolutely wrong this comes from a town mindset.

+2

VOTE: Fredrick A Campbell

Starting a day off with a vote for one of my SRs

VOTE: Fredrick A Campbell

Starting a day off with a vote for one of my SRs

Elaborate please.

Hard Pass, want to hear from them first

Stubbornness is directly equivalent to townie-ness.

+1

That would be my other SR; however less so and I feel they created a better dynamic which could help next round

Scum could just go with the masses and sheep onto me, however flow has put a lot of thought into it and decided I wasn't the one they wanted to prioritize, that would be far too complicated a decision for scum even though they would have a copout that wouldn't draw suspicion to them in the slightest.

+2

I have 2 reasons why I don't want to go on that, the first is interesting interactions as I've stated before, and the second I will not state as I do not feel it should be shared yet and it's still developing

Sticking to your guns, townie.

+0.5

I think that is a Scum tell; I belive you have 3 options
1. Refute that it is a scum tell
2. Refute that you were doing it
3. State something town you did

Feels a bit forced, reads like flow is trying to back Fred into a corner so they do something irrational.

-0.5

Ok, it was a bluff, that was a reaction test; I retract my statements

Bizarre backpedal. Not a fan.

-0.5

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

For being passive and fluffy

What don't you get?

Like everything... your wagon was on E-1, but didn't get any response from you. You townread those people who voted you, and placed suspicions on those who didn't like the E-1 vote on you. And you already read people while being on page 4 only, like super fast! You also stated you're not a new player, so as an experienced one you should know that being super active/helpful doesn't necessarily indicate town, as well as being silent doesn't necessarily indicate scum. Generally, activity is the last resort to point someone as town/scum. A new player can read people at this early state base on the activeness but not an experienced player. Your suspicion on

esotericzoomer

for this reason doesn't make sense to me, also your vote on

Fredrick A Campbell

and the explanation after, also feel weird to me.

Yeah, I don't respond to things like that as town or mafia. As I've stated it's easier to read people who interact with you, and I was also weary of a pocket attempt how they read me barely affects thing. Yeah, I try to read people early, I just said I was leaning that way. Being fluffy & passive isn't being silent, so idk what you mean. i no longer suspect EZ, I will elaborate later. And if you never played with me before the last thing would feel weird

Feel free to elaborate now, and don't give me any of that "I don't want to give mafia information," because being secretive is anti-town.

Other than esotericzoomer and me, who gave negative attention to safebet222 for his E-1 vote on you?

That's a loaded question

1. To a normal person, what safe did is blatantly scummy
2. Scum does not want to act scummy
3. Town does not care about acting scummy
3. Therefore mostly town would do this

Pressuring someone who you're having a discussion with, no matter if you scumread them or not, is never a positive thing.
It comes off as if you're trying to spin what they're saying to look negative.

-1

How does putting a vote on Enchant put pressure on someone else?

How indeed

If you're going to be evasive, people are just going to scum read you inc myself

As I've said if you expect town (more specifically me) to abide by "truth, the whole truth, & nothing but the truth" your gonna have a bad time

Once again being really secretive, directly impeding on town solving the game by behaving like this.

-0.5

Here's my pair analysis, yellow is unlikely

This is such an out of the blue thing to do, that requires a lot of effort. While it may not be that logical of a thing to do it's still townie.

+1

It's a game of mind games, and why should it just be scum, it's so fun to play with the wolves

Townie, but really bloody annoying.
You aren't messing with the wolves, you are directly helping them.

+0.5

I'm actually not inclined to give this slot time to recenter.

Can we not kill the experienced player?

VOTE: safebet222

Random Fact about Iceland: Iceland has gone to war 3 times over cod from 1958 to 1976.

See... Told you no one would hammer.

UNVOTE: flow trap

I was tempted to

I strongly doubt the third post in light of the first.

I want to go out on my own terms

Not a very good defense, shrugging off what he said in a bizarre manner.

-0.5

That makes no sense

It absolutely does, when you are analysing pairs prior to any concrete information or flips you will get empty confidence in your reads, this then can warp into confbias.

I am experienced enough to not do that

I'm not gonna take you on your word

Fair enough

Positive interaction they had with me that I really liked.

+1

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

I'm finding Enchant town now

What a totally genuine reaction

It seems like you could be getting stuck in the confirmation bias that I warned you about dawg

If I'm having fun I'm town, if I'm pretending to have fun I'm not town

Once again being this mysterious is not townie.

-0.5

Total:

6

Townlean

Enchant:

It's time.

VOTE: flow trap

You did that cause I could defend myself

Maybe.

Then don't die.

Thx :/

No problem.

are these still rvs votes or nah

No.


Also that's E-2, so don't place new votes. Hammer allways risk.

I've said it before countless times but I really don't like the random, spontaneous wagon on flow trap, and Enchant's reasons are the ones I like the least, these seem very forced and opportunistic.

-1

New meta to counter Not_Mafia players.

Count like he is on E-1 but actually that's E-2.

Not_Mafia is a person who plays on this site..

And he lolhammers.

I don't want this scenario to repeat.

Very bizarre tangent that shows that Enchant wasn't at all invested in the wagon and was just throwing his vote around. bad

-1

Found this sus to even insinuate it is somewhat serious a vote this early on with such little discussion, unless ofc this is to obtain a reaction and read responses.

Right, as I explained I said it was "partially serious" to avoid seeming scummy / too random.

I probably ask something nonsense, but really want.

Why you think placing votes suspicious? Do you really care how suspicious are you?

Of course explaining votes is good, but doing that and claiming you did that just to don't seem suspicious for that is really something strange.

Town supposed to push suspicious people, you know.

I don't know why people jumped on floo for this, and I especially don't like Enchant having more opportunism.

-1.5

About hammers. This site is first where i see it exists. Really.

Early i just played with system "Vote for someone, and after this, everyone vote should execute him or no", so mafia just can't place final vote and get scotfree. They need to lie/decieve, not just abuse fast fingers and online.


I want minimalise possibility of some mafia/townie placing final vote and claiming "Oh sorry didn't saw that", and save self from thinking, did he on purpose or no. Also it saves possible PR and actually costs nothing.

These random topics Enchant brings up is a lot of filler which is an excuse for not providing much analysis, sifting through his ISO I see he's provided virtually none of his own analysis yet he has spoken a lot, he's very much flying under the radar.

-2

Other than esotericzoomer and me, who gave negative attention to safebet222 for his E-1 vote on you?

That's a loaded question

1. To a normal person, what safe did is blatantly scummy
2. Scum does not want to act scummy
3. Town does not care about acting scummy
3. Therefore mostly town would do this

Mafia know this too, and can imitate dumb thoughs.

This is not the natural take you get when you want to counter what flow trap said here, this is definitely just Enchant throwing shit at the wall and hoping it sticks. This is entirely a fake feeling post.

-1.5

I got why he voted me.

Looking will be my partner try rescue me? Well. Good idea, but very badly made.

Very poor reaction to pressure, instead of doing the natural thing town does when in this position (spew reads, contribute), Enchant gets all aggressive and tries to make the votes against him look stupid rather than actually show why they shouldn't be on him.

-2

We can execute on random. 2/9 chance to kill mafia you know.

Even if we execute townie, mafia will be scared and surrender.


Joking aside. I gladly anonce, that... I'm not found anything. Only Flow somewhat suspicious for me, because of that excuse, but that's probably not enough.

Maybe you should give some ways/ask me questions, and my head start working, otherwise i will just blindly walk here.

Very fancy way of saying, "I'm not contributing and I'm not gonna put the effort in to actually properly find a read."

-1.5

Maybe you should give some ways/ask me questions, and my head start working, otherwise i will just blindly walk here.

What do you think of Salsa+Zoomer interactions?

Well, they kinda fine with each other.

Only times when they interact is explaining terms and agreeing that Flow is suspicious.

Though only Zoomer placed vote, when all i want is answers. Maybe they are trying distance, but not so obvious and so he coach her on public.

But... Aren't mafia then suppose to imitate different thoughs, to give expression like they dislike each other or think in opposite direction? Push from both mafia can bite later.


So i may bet, they are most likely not both mafia.

Says one thing but then says another.
Tinfoils like these don't belong in rational discussion and I don't like it appearing here.

-0.5

Yes. I said exactly that, not "They probably not maf both, but one of them surely there".

If I'm reading this right and the language barrier isn't fucking this up, Enchant pulls a random "one of them is scum" situation out of his ass, very much disapprove.

-0.5

Total:

-11.5

Scumread

floo

So how can you have a serious vote of 3 people haven't even checked in?
...
OMGUS?

"..." not part of original post.

With the game becoming more serious, I can explain my motives. I switched my RVS vote from Enchant to flow trap because I wanted to see where a conversation would go. flow trap's posting style is lighthearted with a lot of small talk and interactions with other player, as one of the most active users so far (might be the most active in terms of post count). I stated my vote was "partially serious" (40) to avoid seeming suspicious from an apparent OMGUS (as you guessed) and a second (apparently) random vote. I am explaining my intentions now because I would rather have flow trap discuss his/her gameplay or opinions than post joke reactions.

Two things to take from this, while their reasons for their read on flow trap may be genuine I absolutely don't like the fact that they didn't want to appear suspicious, however they're very open about that fact which I regrettably like.

+1.5

I'm leaning town on safe, floo and Spartan

You townread three people who have voted you. I started the wagon. safebet made a point of putting you a step away from death. Spartan voted you for no stated reason other than "pressure" (61). In particular, I find the Spartan townread strange because he has posted only three times, but you find him "genuine" (121). Meanwhile, you are scumreading esotericzoomer (implied in 114), who is the person who has questioned the votes on you a lot while staying away from an explicit townread. Do you think the wagon on you has a legitimate or beneficial purpose?

I like the rationale behind this, this comes from a good mindset who's out for the benefit of town.

+1

I'm leaning town on safe, floo and Spartan

You townread three people who have voted you. I started the wagon. safebet made a point of putting you a step away from death. Spartan voted you for no stated reason other than "pressure" (61). In particular, I find the Spartan townread strange because he has posted only three times, but you find him "genuine" (121). Meanwhile, you are scumreading esotericzoomer (implied in 114), who is the person who has questioned the votes on you a lot while staying away from an explicit townread. Do you think the wagon on you has a legitimate or beneficial purpose?

I've said it before somewhere in this wall, but I like people who trust their own opinions but not so much that they're beyond stubborn.

+1

Just finished reading the thread up to now.

Some players have found my vote switch to flow trap suspicious because I didn't want to attract suspicion (Enchant in 150 comes to mind). If I don't want to be voted out, I don't see why I shouldn't take the effort not to seem overly scummy.

Will post other thoughts soon.

While I think this is the weirdest fucking motive for town, like I said they're being very open about it, and I like their follow-up.

+1

Hello. This is my first game on this site.

How to play as Mafia Goon? What it do?

Enchant has played Newbie 2046 before according to Sal (44); it's a pure joke. But Enchant has not posted anything else that relates to this or is a pure joke. It looks unnatural/forced.

Also, you still haven't made any productive comments about your flow trap vote. What did you learn from the pressure you put on flow trap, and in retrospect was it a good idea?

There's a lot of awareness that comes from being able to spot this, then following up and questioning a player about it is townie.

+1.5

All right, here's my read on the player I've posted the most about: flow trap.

At the beginning of the day, flow trap asked for "tips on how to read someone" (53), and short, inconsequential posts suggested that the player did not have a clear sense of their goals. Later on, we saw reads and other opinions that showed a sense of direction. The short posting style remained, but the topics were more substantial. flow trap later admits:

Because I was pretending to be new?

Here is a post written a week ago in the Newbie Introduction thread (

not in this game

):

Well, as usual when I get on a new site: I have no idea what I'm doing

This makes me think flow trap was also confused.

I think the change in style suggests town. flow trap was moving away from being confused and/or pretending to be new because (s)he maintained the same style that might seem fillery. There was no pretending to have a different personality or posting style, even if that might have looked more towny.

The pair analysis chart (282) looks like town effort superficially. The image looks like it took time to input the names, fill the color, find a chart template, etc. But I'm skeptical considering how little effort flow trap has put into the writing of other posts. Ultimately, I don't put much weight on the chart.

With very minor posts floo has provided a lot of content, and his read on flow trap (if I'm reading it right it's a townlean) is going against the popular vote if I'm not living under a rock.

+2

Total:

8

Townlean

safebet222

Hello. This is my first game on this site.

How to play as Mafia Goon? What it do?

You're lovely...

Lets paint a picture here, scum!safebet sees a townie make a mafia goon jokeclaim, and makes this forced as all hell reaction.

-1

A couple of questions for everyone...

What's your experience with mafia?
Why do you like to play mafia in general and forum mafia specifically?

This is my 5th forum game, third one in the last few months. I also have played some chat mafia. I think Mafia is fascinating and suspenseful and I like the fact that its mainly people younger than myself that play. I prefer forum mafia over chat mafia because my mind doesn't work so fast and I naturally am careful with what I write.

In my eyes, typically the people who make these ice-breakers in order to force discussion are doing so out of necessity, so it looks like they're actually doing something, when in reality they are mafia.

-1

VOTE: flow trap

This is at least a partially serious vote. Don't want to discuss why right now.

So how can you have a serious vote of 3 people haven't even checked in?

Not_Mafia is a person who plays on this site..

And he lolhammers.

I don't want this scenario to repeat.

Eh... I didn't see his name on the player list...

VOTE: flow trap

That's E-1. My theory is nobody's dumb enough to hammer.

Regardless of it being being a reaction test or not this chain of posts is very much suspicious.

-1

VOTE: safebet222

Random Fact about Iceland: Iceland has gone to war 3 times over cod from 1958 to 1976.

See... Told you no one would hammer.

UNVOTE: flow trap

After one, negative reaction, they unvote and act like it is/was a reaction test.
Textbook backpedal because they didn't think they'd come under fire.

-2

So what were you going to do? Twiddle your thumbs until sxum raise their hand and say, "Its me!"

This is unfounded arrogance, when he noticed people were on his side he started getting hyper-defensive.

-0.5

EZ, would you agree that mafia doesn't want attention?

No not at all. Being the loudest voice in the room can help you control town or at the very least blend in.
Depends on how anxious the player is.

Players who intentionally fly under the radar are going to be noticed and come under fire.

So town would fly under the radar more?

No? Town would commit, create reads, and not cause confusion.

I created no confusion... I comitted to geting this game moving...and it worked. Plus, I didn't like enchant trying to impose some new fangled meta on us.

While blatantly wrong, it's a good reaction, I can see it coming from stressed/annoyed town, however the bad outweighs the good so far.

+1

If I didn't know any better, I'd think that enchant is trying to pocket Salsa. She was quick hammered by Not_Mafia and enchant in Newbie 2042 during D2 and they passed that shit off as a lolhammer that enchant rode into F3 and won for mafia.

Very niche example, I've never been a fan of when people provide one game to explain their reads.

-0.5

Analysing for pairs just aint it chief

UNVOTE: EZ

Yep. You hit the nail on the head.

Plus, I think Prism is probably right. If you were called out on being disingenuous with your outrage, you'd have probably found something else to shift your attention to.

Good post, natural progression in backing off, etc.

+1.5

However the speed in which they forgot they ever pushed me is weird af

-0.5

Total:

-4

nullscum

Spartan117

Lets apply a bit more pressure

VOTE: flow trap

For now I feel like my vote would be better placed here.

VOTE: esotericzoomer

Two VERY opportunistic votes, swooped in randomly and sheeped a wagon.

-1

How does putting a vote on Enchant put pressure on someone else?

How indeed

If you're going to be evasive, people are just going to scum read you inc myself

As I've said if you expect town (more specifically me) to abide by "truth, the whole truth, & nothing but the truth" your gonna have a bad time

I've just asked you a question that was all.

The annoyance is townie, also mindmeld.

+1.5

Well, we

are

still talking about it so it definitely got reactions out of almost everyone

Would you agree that there are different kinds of emotions, that there is a difference between reactions now after the fact and reactions at the time when there is more pressure and reactions are more honest.

Yes, yes, no

You don't agree that reactions are more honest at the time when a situation is more pressurised like when you was put on L-1?

Spartan all-around has a good stance on safebet, as far as I've seen he doesn't scumread him yet he will call out how it was a bad action.

+1.5

@safe @EZ since you guys are about what do you think of Fredrick so far?

Being curious towards the opinions from a player he scumreads is Town 101.

+2

1. I'm talking about in general
2. Town should always be defensive

Shouldn't town risk being aggressive enough to be seen as scum in order to try and obtain results?

Fountain of good takes.

+1

Total:

5

Townlean

Prism

Yo, not a dirty flaker, late here and will read through tomorrow.

Nice entrance, feels full of hope.
However this is an SE slot so I want to hold them to a higher standard of not wearing their heart on their sleeve but I'ma just go with my gut.

+0.5

flow trap, what was your thought process with this sequence?

Hi

Hey everyone...

VOTE: clarkbar

You just made me think about breaking my diet with candy.

VOTE: floo

Shortest username

VOTE: flow trap

This is at least a partially serious vote. Don't want to discuss why right now.

So how can you have a serious vote of 3 people haven't even checked in?

This is a really bizarre angle. Why does having an individual read/vote depend on others having posted?

Lets apply a bit more pressure

VOTE: flow trap

I'm not really a fan of openly declaring a vote a pressure vote. Even a naked vote is better.

Having strong confidence in your opinions but not being aggressive/arrogant about it is always a townie thing.

+3

I don't really get why there's a question mark there. I'm asking about what you were thinking during your first two votes. "Because I was pretending to be new" is a deeper purpose in contrast to the "Nothing" you originally gave.

Looking at page 4 and the posts around here you seem to be annoyed by the votes on you. Looking at your comment about being an experienced player, you might need to recenter to first principles. Being dismissive of questions doesn't really help as either alignment. It's better to be straightforward and eliminate the guesswork.

I like this follow up pursuit towards flow trap, having persistence until a question is answered is Town 101.

+1.5

VOTE: safebet222

Random Fact about Iceland: Iceland has gone to war 3 times over cod from 1958 to 1976.

See... Told you no one would hammer.

UNVOTE: flow trap

Where's your motivation to do that as town? There's no positives from dancing around flow traps wagon like this.

Reactions... Gotta have reactions to start getting somewhere.

So if your motivation for voting was to get reactions, what was your motivation in unvoting? You had a vote up for 18 minutes, with only 2 non-flow trap players posting. It's also just bizarre to assert that you were "making a point" but immediately describe a motivation that doesn't make a point when asked why you voted.

Something I didn't notice and I really liked when Prism pointed it out, like I said before it takes a really good townie with a strong town mindset in order to notice these things.

+2

Spartan, re: 339 I agree that these interactions are good for Salsa and questionable at best from flow. I think there's a big difference between that and the interaction being necessarily TvS, though. At this point with flow trap I don't really think I'd be surprised if he flipped either way.

VOTE: Frederick

Concur that the vote hop wasn't great. Safebet's posting the last few pages was okay.

floo's explanations have been like,

fine

. I want to townread the slot but can't really say they've done anything strongly AI.

mindmeld on fred

+0.5

I really hate to be blunt but it's better I do it now than later.

flow trap, you need to put your ego aside this game. It's getting in the way of you being effective and are making you elim bait.

You've taken the exact same dismissive attitude to players repeatedly throughout the game. Your explanations for why range from lackluster to promises of galaxy brain plans. Stating that you're not vulnerable to bias due to experience misses the entire point of bias.

I support you pressuring for a read but I don't support you continuing to be evasive/dismissive of concerns and questions under the guise of big brain. It forces me to guess whether you're being egotistical, malicious, or both.

This absolutely comes from the heart, this is way to personal, and as they said, blunt, for this to come from scum at all.

+1.5

No scummy posts:

+1 bonus

Total:

10

Townread

Fredrick A. Campbell

VOTE: safebet222

Random Fact about Iceland: Iceland has gone to war 3 times over cod from 1958 to 1976.

See... Told you no one would hammer.

UNVOTE: flow trap

You want to continue to risk someone hammering by replacing your vote?

Unlike safebet I don't see this as anything genuine, I know this is weird since I absolutely agree with his position here but now that I've come to the realization that my read on safebet isn't anything strong this feels like an opportunistic jump on a potential mislynch.

-0.5

Hard Pass, want to hear from them first

Your vote below has given me nothing to respond to. To elaborate, I don't even know why you are scum reading me and, hence, do not have a basis to say that you do not have a reasonable suspicion on me.

VOTE: Fredrick A Campbell

Starting a day off with a vote for one of my SRs

Good reaction.

+1

EZ, would you agree that mafia doesn't want attention?

No not at all. Being the loudest voice in the room can help you control town or at the very least blend in.
Depends on how anxious the player is.

Players who intentionally fly under the radar are going to be noticed and come under fire.

My opinion on the matter is the following. The mafiosoes have motive to do exactly what was stated in the post quoted. However, they also have motive to do the exact opposite.

Nothing post.

-0.5

So Fred... What do you think of the reactions so far? Do you still think I am deserving of your vote?

You are worthy of my vote. Hence, my vote is on you.

While he criticized flow trap for having an unexplained vote on him that he couldn't respond to, he then goes and commits the same thing.
Hypocrisy never looks good.

-1

Reminder: I exist.

What if you lying and not existing actually?
...

My existence demonstrates that I exist.

Mafia would say that.

What is that supposed to refer to?

Something.

What you think about Floo answer?

Incoherent.

I'm starting to lean towards a Fredrick/Enchant team, so this interaction here is scummy asf. Enchant is like a completely different person here, trolling a lot for no reason, I can only see this motive of scum!enchant being that he's interacting with a teammate.

-2.5

Side Note:

Like Enchant, Fredrick is providing a lot of information but very little substance, but with him he's using the guise of being helpful. This is letting him fly under the radar.

-2

Total:

-5.5

Scumlean

TL;DR

{Prism}
{floo, flow trap, Spartan117}
{Salsabil Faria, safebet222}
{Fredrick A Campbell}
{Enchant}

VOTE: Enchant

(brackets are set up from towniest->scummiest, left->right.)

[esotericzoomer]

i would like to ask for towncred

[esotericzoomer]

I think it's safe to say Safe+Fredrick aren't partners, the whole wagon thing would be very weird if they were partners

it's fred and enchant

[esotericzoomer]

i would like to ask for towncred

That's fair, it's pretty solid other than a couple of things I'll mention when I feel like it (mostly on salsa), and the fact that I, in my opinion, don't find mind melding to be towny

im just joshin lol

[esotericzoomer]

I think it's safe to say Safe+Fredrick aren't partners, the whole wagon thing would be very weird if they were partners

it's fred and enchant

I know that's what you think, I was just thinking out loud

me 2

[esotericzoomer]

I have a question, is it just because they are the 2 most suspicious?

that but also the one interaction they had together seemed really offputting

[esotericzoomer]

Ok here is the thing I don't agree with

In post 44, Salsabil Faria wrote:
In post 38, Enchant wrote:
Yeeaaah.

So i'm not good at game, where main source of info is people yelling on each other.

Dude, you won Newbie 2046 by fooling the town perfectly! If you are not good, don't know who can be!!

Being supportive is always townie.

Being nice is generally a wolf tell from my experience; however, this was early in the game, so I would probably give this a neutral

Salsabil is a nulltown for me lol, and besides, these gripes you have with what I called out for her were barely anything more than neutral in the first place, at best getting a +0.5 in my measurement shit

[esotericzoomer]

I'm sorry if I'm being really prideful/pretentious here.
Just happy I'm done these couple of hours of work into analyzing the game.

[esotericzoomer]

jfc

[esotericzoomer]

https://youtu.be/IuRC3HEJ71M

[esotericzoomer]

I'm assuming the image was used without an intent to offend. Let's please drop this topic until after the game ends.

yes

[esotericzoomer]

flow trap how do you read fredrick? because im perfectly willing to get him first

[esotericzoomer]

VOTE: Fredrick

[esotericzoomer]

I think Enchant came off a lot better reading realtime-you (Esoteric) seem to be reading in ISO. I wouldn't call him town but a lot of the filler was either relevant or pretty natural posting, ex. joking about lolhammers after expressing caution about them.

I'm really curious about this:

Yes. I said exactly that, not "They probably not maf both, but one of them surely there".

If I'm reading this right and the language barrier isn't fucking this up, Enchant pulls a random "one of them is scum" situation out of his ass, very much disapprove.
-0.5

I called a similar issue out with Spartan in 311 and 421. When asked why it's TvS, he gave more resaoning as to why Salsabil individually was town and flow individually was scum rather than they were diametrically opposed. I don't think you touch on this in your wall. Spartan isn't a bad alternative right now.

Yeah I absolutely read his post wrong here, that’s my bad, I still scumread him though.

[esotericzoomer]

You will hate me for this.

I will hammer anyone, if i see him at E-1.

Don't put people on E-1 unless you surely decide you want them dead. Ask for claims on E-2, so mafia can't trade self on some Cop claim with instant punch.

I decided on it, so don't argue.

possible motives for this:
- wild reaction test (most rational motive)
- attention seeking
- perplex other players
- avoid scumreads for posting weird stuff (like the Mafia joke claim) and then not posting weird stuff
- concern over lolhammer (talked about it at the beginning of the game, very disapprovingly)

His post was NAI

[esotericzoomer]

VOTE: Fredrick

Hey, i won mafiatest, and got -11, while he got -5.

Why you not pushing me, but instead change mind soo easy.

Because people are more content voting fredrick than they are you.

[esotericzoomer]

I think Enchant came off a lot better reading realtime-you (Esoteric) seem to be reading in ISO. I wouldn't call him town but a lot of the filler was either relevant or pretty natural posting, ex. joking about lolhammers after expressing caution about them.

I'm really curious about this:

Yes. I said exactly that, not "They probably not maf both, but one of them surely there".

If I'm reading this right and the language barrier isn't fucking this up, Enchant pulls a random "one of them is scum" situation out of his ass, very much disapprove.
-0.5

I called a similar issue out with Spartan in 311 and 421. When asked why it's TvS, he gave more resaoning as to why Salsabil individually was town and flow individually was scum rather than they were diametrically opposed. I don't think you touch on this in your wall. Spartan isn't a bad alternative right now.

Yeah I absolutely read his post wrong here, that’s my bad, I still scumread him though.

Also whether it’s on topic or not, filler is still filler

[esotericzoomer]

all aloneee

[esotericzoomer]

VOTE: Fredrick

Hey, i won mafiatest, and got -11, while he got -5.

Why you not pushing me, but instead change mind soo easy.

Because people are more content voting fredrick than they are you.

Aren't you supposed to argue with that, not just agree to execute person, who you find as less likely a mafia?

Fredrick is still a scumlean, it matters not to me who I vote as long as they are below the null bracket

[esotericzoomer]

You may be my main scumread but as far as I’ve seen people are far more willing to vote my other scumread in fredrick than they are you. So even though I have a weaker scumread on him I’ll still vote him.

[esotericzoomer]

Also you’re trying to discredit me by making me seem incompetent rather than countering any of the points I brought up in my wall. Only making me more confident in my read here lol

[esotericzoomer]

cool scumclaim

[esotericzoomer]

VOTE: Fredrick

Hey, i won mafiatest, and got -11, while he got -5.

Why you not pushing me, but instead change mind soo easy.

Because people are more content voting fredrick than they are you.

I don't like how you are more concerned with voting with the pack and joining a train rather than following your scummiest scum read, that stinks of scum wanting to hide amongst town.

VOTE: Fredrick

Hey, i won mafiatest, and got -11, while he got -5.

Why you not pushing me, but instead change mind soo easy.

Because people are more content voting fredrick than they are you.

Aren't you supposed to argue with that, not just agree to execute person, who you find as less likely a mafia?

Fredrick is still a scumlean, it matters not to me who I vote as long as they are below the null bracket

It bothers me on your disregard for who your voting, rather than having some more pinpoint accuracy on how scummy your read is, instead youre happier to vote off anyone who you may have a scum lean on rather than a more solid read on.

i would like to ask for towncred

EZ seems much more interested in being town read than actually going after his stronger scum reads and pushing them further.

I'm pushing my scumread's, you can see this in the fact that I made a half a page long wall on my reads in general.
I don't see the problem with settling for a Fredrick wagon, when like, one other person, will follow me on the Enchant wagon.

Also I thought it was obvious but the last post is a joke lol.

[esotericzoomer]

You're disregarding any semblance of natural progression I had and rather you're cherrypicking my post's and warping them to fit your narrative.
Case and point, I make a joke, you read it as me wanting to be townread instead of me pushing my reads.

[esotericzoomer]

VOTE: Fredrick

Hey, i won mafiatest, and got -11, while he got -5.

Why you not pushing me, but instead change mind soo easy.

Because people are more content voting fredrick than they are you.

I don't like how you are more concerned with voting with the pack and joining a train rather than following your scummiest scum read, that stinks of scum wanting to hide amongst town.

VOTE: Fredrick

Hey, i won mafiatest, and got -11, while he got -5.

Why you not pushing me, but instead change mind soo easy.

Because people are more content voting fredrick than they are you.

Aren't you supposed to argue with that, not just agree to execute person, who you find as less likely a mafia?

Fredrick is still a scumlean, it matters not to me who I vote as long as they are below the null bracket

It bothers me on your disregard for who your voting, rather than having some more pinpoint accuracy on how scummy your read is, instead youre happier to vote off anyone who you may have a scum lean on rather than a more solid read on.

i would like to ask for towncred

EZ seems much more interested in being town read than actually going after his stronger scum reads and pushing them further.

I'm pushing my scumread's, you can see this in the fact that I made a half a page long wall on my reads in general.
I don't see the problem with settling for a Fredrick wagon, when like, one other person, will follow me on the Enchant wagon.

Also I thought it was obvious but the last post is a joke lol.

Posting a wall of reads is not the same thing as pushing scum reads, how are you pushing for answers when you just share your opinion rather than questioning them and holding them to account?

I'm not warping anything, you chose to vote someone based off there being traction for other people to vote them, not from them being your main scum read, which is major sus.

As much as it may have been a joke it still expresses your desire to be receiving town cred for posting your reads, which is something scum would be much more desperate for than town.

You’re reading so far into it, it’s astounding.

I’m voting a scumread, whether or not it’s my main one is completely meaningless.
And the ball is in their court to refute what I have already said, continuous pushing and questioning is a waste of time, you can even see me talking to Enchant about him not refuting any of my points.

Also the page after the joke that you want to push as a scumtell, I clarified it was a joke.

[esotericzoomer]

You're disregarding any semblance of natural progression I had and rather you're cherrypicking my post's and warping them to fit your narrative.
Case and point,

I make a joke, you read it as me wanting to be townread instead of me pushing my reads.

How does saying

i would like to ask for towncred

in #446 push your reads?

It doesn’t, it was a joke, and you cherrypicked it as well.

[esotericzoomer]

You're disregarding any semblance of natural progression I had and rather you're cherrypicking my post's and warping them to fit your narrative.
Case and point,

I make a joke, you read it as me wanting to be townread instead of me pushing my reads.

How does saying

i would like to ask for towncred

in #446 push your reads?

It doesn’t, it was a joke, and you cherrypicked it as well.

So you agree what you said in #536 was incorrect as you literally just stated that it is you pushing your townreads...

I didn’t say that lol?

[esotericzoomer]

Not quoting that cus huge ass post but that makes literally no sense. I’m hiding behind other people’s pushes? the fuck? I’ve made it very clear that I scumread Enchant so I don’t see how I’m ‘hiding,’ also where’s my motivation as scum to not push him? However as town I see literally no one other than maybe Salsabil scumreading them as well. It would be anti-town of me to waste time on a wagon that the whole town doesn’t want to vote when there’s already a wagon forming on one of my other scumreads.

[esotericzoomer]

You're disregarding any semblance of natural progression I had and rather you're cherrypicking my post's and warping them to fit your narrative.
Case and point,

I make a joke, you read it as me wanting to be townread instead of me pushing my reads.

How does saying

i would like to ask for towncred

in #446 push your reads?

It doesn’t, it was a joke, and you cherrypicked it as well.

So you agree what you said in #536 was incorrect as you literally just stated that it is you pushing your townreads...

I didn’t say that lol?

What does the last sentence of your #536 say?

Refer to what flow trap said in response to you

[esotericzoomer]

https://www.volvoce.com/global/en/build ... r-tunnels/

[esotericzoomer]

Um, you did actually say that

He’s completely misinterpreting it and apparently you are now as well

[esotericzoomer]

But it means both of what you are saying depending how you read it

I very much meant in the sentence that he was interpreting my joke as if it was serious, that I’m more concerned with being townread rather than pushing my reads. Which you noticed and did a complete 180 on lmao

[esotericzoomer]

Not quoting that cus huge ass post but that makes literally no sense. I’m hiding behind other people’s pushes? the fuck? I’ve made it very clear that I scumread Enchant so I don’t see how I’m ‘hiding,’ also where’s my motivation as scum to not push him? However as town I see literally no one other than maybe Salsabil scumreading them as well. It would be anti-town of me to waste time on a wagon that the whole town doesn’t want to vote when there’s already a wagon forming on one of my other scumreads.

Fair enough on not quoting.

The "Hiding" is in reference to how you jumped on Fredricks wagon, I can just see how its much easier for ScumEZ to slip onto Fredricks wagon that others are pushing, than to keep pushing your strongest scum read I believe is "Enchant" and try and get more information from them while other people who are already pushing Fredrick continue to do so, do you see where I am coming from?

Also the game does not end Day 1 so any information on reads etc we get day 1 can help day 2 whether we are alive or not, it is a pro town play to keep getting information so long as we can. Hypothetical situation here: Enchant is scum, TownFredrick gets voted off, and you TownEZ gets night killed, and then ScumEnchant blends in as they weren't pushed as much day 1 and there are less people sus of him. Every read counts even if its something early day 1 that can help us sort players day 3 or however far down the line.

BRO you don’t understand, I have already made my case against Enchant, like I’ve said the ball is in their court, and it’s up to them to respond. There is not much else for me to get out of him other than periodically reminding him that he still hasn’t responded. I also can’t get reactions from him with a vote when NO ONE else wants to join me.

Sure that hypothetical situation can happen but I’m confident enough in my reads that I’m sure it won’t happen. Once again you’re reading really far into it.

[esotericzoomer]

If you’re to press everyone on voting their top scumread, then my top scumread Enchant won’t ever get voted out. Do you not see the problem here?

[esotericzoomer]

Zoomer, on what i not responded?

the entire section on you that i dedicated a part of my wall to

[esotericzoomer]

Well, you think i'm mafia, because of my manner of though and because i trying prevent any probality of harmful hammer.

It's not like i need counter this, as it are accuse of me being me.

see what im working with spartan?

[esotericzoomer]

Are you sure there's no conf. bias on your read, you did find nothing town about them :think:

You’re misusing that.
Those two things are not the same.

[esotericzoomer]

Yes. And what with that?

You say like i not answered, but you want me dead, not ask question, and you allready assumed like "Team is Enchant+Fred". So good luck with flips.

I agree with you about joke though. It's obvious, dunno why people get it serius.

You haven’t answered/responded to my wall at all.

[esotericzoomer]

no you didnt

[esotericzoomer]

No, i did.

All your accusations is for my not serius behavior and also trying to make hammers less harmful.

Well, too bad, if you think my behavior is against town condition, you are wrong.

Are you intentionally trying to ignore my post? Blatantly lying isn’t a viable response.

[esotericzoomer]

THE WALL

[esotericzoomer]

Thank you for proving my point that I am physically unable to get anything out of you as you can openly refuse to contribute and still get away with it.

[esotericzoomer]

flow trap could you vote enchant or naw

[esotericzoomer]

ight

[esotericzoomer]

VOTE: Enchant

[esotericzoomer]

yes me and flow trap plotted the big brain theater of
“can you vote enchant”
“maybe”
fooled you didnt we

[esotericzoomer]

Oh sorry, i dind't saw this is on E-1.

you werent on l-1
someone hammer lol

[esotericzoomer]

tomorrow we get fredrick

[esotericzoomer]

he openly claimed goon then backtracked when he found he wasn't on l-1

[esotericzoomer]

e-1

[esotericzoomer]

there was nothing about what transpired that can ever come from town

[esotericzoomer]

VOTE: Enchant

Oh sorry, i dind't saw this is on E-1.

Reread. This isn't intended self-hammer. It's intended self-vote to put yourself at E-1.

"Oh sorry I didn't see this was on E-1"
meaning he thought it was on e-1 after he voted, then he goes on to claim mafia goon after he thought he hammered
this is not town ever

[esotericzoomer]

just call me ez for the sake of remembering

[esotericzoomer]

Spoiler:

Okay, i bored.

I'm not Mafia, because:

1. I'm drowning and would just claim some PR to get Counterclaimed/Get freeaway ticket for now. Easy trade of my life for PR, while with just execute, mafia would get no benefit.
2. Killing self is not in mafia interest.
3. I'm town.
4. I forgot this thing will remember later.
5. I really though i was in E-1 but sadly no. There's zero point for Mafia!Me claim mafia, because it's looking i really murder self as mafia member (which is not in mafia interest).

Disregarding than, i still want to get eluminated, because how my life is dangerous.

Now you're being a pain in the ***

Kinda reason why i selfvoted.

Yes, I saw that too.... but still don't understand why you claimed to be a scum if you're a town??
Btw, how many votes you have on you at the moment?

Why not. Only mafia knows i'm not mafia, so they would act different and i will reveal as Townie anyway. You allready saw how i slipped in 2042, when asked if you are Cop/Tracker? Well.

anyone townreading this is immediately suspicious

[esotericzoomer]

Spoiler:

Okay, i bored.

I'm not Mafia, because:

1. I'm drowning and would just claim some PR to get Counterclaimed/Get freeaway ticket for now. Easy trade of my life for PR, while with just execute, mafia would get no benefit.
2. Killing self is not in mafia interest.
3. I'm town.
4. I forgot this thing will remember later.
5. I really though i was in E-1 but sadly no. There's zero point for Mafia!Me claim mafia, because it's looking i really murder self as mafia member (which is not in mafia interest).

Disregarding than, i still want to get eluminated, because how my life is dangerous.

Now you're being a pain in the ***

Kinda reason why i selfvoted.

Yes, I saw that too.... but still don't understand why you claimed to be a scum if you're a town??
Btw, how many votes you have on you at the moment?

Why not. Only mafia knows i'm not mafia, so they would act different and i will reveal as Townie anyway. You allready saw how i slipped in 2042, when asked if you are Cop/Tracker? Well.

anyone townreading this is immediately suspicious

How?

his justification's for these scummy actions are ass backwards and he's blatant scum.
either someone is being so lazy they aren't looking at the finer details of his posts or they're just scum.

[esotericzoomer]

his justification's for these scummy actions are ass backwards and he's blatant scum.
either someone is being so lazy they aren't looking at the finer details of his posts or they're just scum.

Don't know about others but I'm hell confused!

do you not find that his reasons for claiming goon make absolutely no sense?

[esotericzoomer]

his justification's for these scummy actions are ass backwards and he's blatant scum.
either someone is being so lazy they aren't looking at the finer details of his posts or they're just scum.

Don't know about others but I'm hell confused!

do you not find that his reasons for claiming goon make absolutely no sense?

Claiming goon no, cause they really thought it was E-1 before they self hammered and claimed mafia goon, at least it seems like that to me. Then they again said that they are town, and gave reason which doesn't make sense to me. So I don't know what to think actually...

exactly
so anyone saying otherwise is suspicious

[esotericzoomer]

do you not find that his reasons for claiming goon make absolutely no sense?

Do you think that enchant makes sense as a player?
Again, it’s basically an auto elimination but I think there legit is a nonzero chance this is just....realllt really strange play. Too low of a chance to not elim there, but I think saying they’re always scum might be a stretch.

Hope they flip scum, that would make sorting you considerably easier.

regardless of whether or not enchant "makes sense" as a player, it's very easy to see he revealed his role prematurely after he thought he accidentally hammered. there is no world where this is ever town.

[esotericzoomer]

but we're arguing for no reason here because me, you, and salsabil all scumread him lol

[esotericzoomer]

Mafia would say that.

What is that supposed to refer to?

Something.

What you think about Floo answer?

I think this is a very bizarre interaction between fred and enchant here.
I also don't like how he tried to redirect my attention back on to him when I voted fred, he was almost desperate

[esotericzoomer]

VOTE: Fredrick

Hey, i won mafiatest, and got -11, while he got -5.

Why you not pushing me, but instead change mind soo easy.

by defending/trying to bring my attention back to him i mean this
came off really desperate and i think can absolutely point towards a fredrick/enchant scumteam

[esotericzoomer]

Mafia would say that.

What is that supposed to refer to?

Something.

What you think about Floo answer?

I think this is a very bizarre interaction between fred and enchant here.
I also don't like how he tried to redirect my attention back on to him when I voted fred, he was almost desperate

i noticed i supplied zero context so this probably makes little sense
a while ago i said fredrick really didnt have that much of a presence in the game and i didn't like that, he says 'he exists,' then enchant comes out of nowhere and starts trolling him
while i wouldnt put it past enchant to mess around a lot, this was a very different character than he was usually

[esotericzoomer]

Spoiler: FULL CONTEXT

@safe @EZ since you guys are about what do you think of Fredrick so far?

He’s not exactly the most committed player to making reads or just talking in general.
While that’s not AI it makes me forget he’s even there at times which I don’t like.

Reminder: I exist.

Reminder: I exist.

What if you lying and not existing actually?

Hello. This is my first game on this site.

How to play as Mafia Goon? What it do?

Enchant has played Newbie 2046 before according to Sal (44); it's a pure joke. But Enchant has not posted anything else that relates to this or is a pure joke. It looks unnatural/forced.

Also, you still haven't made any productive comments about your flow trap vote. What did you learn from the pressure you put on flow trap, and in retrospect was it a good idea?

I didn't have any yet. Need to look better.

Reminder: I exist.

What if you lying and not existing actually?
...

My existence demonstrates that I exist.

Mafia would say that.

Mafia would say that.

What is that supposed to refer to?

Mafia would say that.

What is that supposed to refer to?

Something.

What you think about Floo answer?

Mafia would say that.

What is that supposed to refer to?

Something.

What you think about Floo answer?

Incoherent.

the 'what you think about floo answer' seems like some weird softball question you'd throw at a mafia partner to fake an interaction

[esotericzoomer]

other than that the interaction was a fairly different enchant than normal

[esotericzoomer]

Mafia would say that.

What is that supposed to refer to?

Something.

What you think about Floo answer?

this feels like it could be openwolfing as well

[esotericzoomer]

If it ends up not being Enchant, where do we go from there?

myself? i would reread some slots pushing this with me as i doubt mafia would stay passive/neutral in this situation
but im 99.9999999999999999999999% this is just enchant/fredrick

[esotericzoomer]

myself? i would reread some slots pushing this with me as i doubt mafia would stay passive/neutral in this situation
but im 99.9999999999999999999999% this is just enchant/fredrick

The only real issue from my perspective with the enchant elim is that if they flip town, we have basically no real info.

They did enough suspicious things that pushing on them early doesn't look terribly bad.

Their self-vote openclaim Mafia Goon makes them so suspicious that literally anyone can vote them without looking bad.

There might be some info to find somewhere on a push on them, but frankly, it feels like Day1 part2 if they flip town, and it feels like who gets killed at night or bad solving or something would provide more info that anyone pushing the Enchant slot.

you're being too paranoid

[esotericzoomer]

I'm not sure FaC is maf

I'm not convinced either, but I tend to think EZ is a tunnly town as a result of the way they've pushed it/other slots today.

it's not really tunneling, i have an entire wall of reads so im bound to be confident here

[esotericzoomer]

you're being too paranoid

This sounds scummy tbh

not being confident in your reads and double-checking everything will drive town into ruin

[esotericzoomer]

you're being too paranoid

Eh, I've already said I never find a vote outside of Enchant today, and I'm surprised it hasn't been hammered yet, frankly.

And the read wall was good! I townread you for it. I'm not convinced the way you are about Fredrick, and you've been pushing them since that wall. That's tunnly. I hope your herosolve is right though!

fair enough

[esotericzoomer]

lol

[esotericzoomer]

Am I arrogant for saying I'm experienced?

No, you're arrogant for being arrogant! You tell who you think as a town/scum without giving any reason but when others ask about the reason, you shut them down. You make yourself hard to read for the townies, but mafias know everyone's alignments, so this mysterious behavior is not helpful at all. And your 'experience' is helping only you at the moment, not the town. While you make others to take/believe you by your words only, you on the other hand doing the opposite by saying that you don't believe anyone. As I didn't play with you before, all of these indicate arrogance to me.

preach

[esotericzoomer]

holding back your reads is selfish as all hell as the only motivation to do so as town is that you don't get night killed

[esotericzoomer]

whatever dawg

[esotericzoomer]

Hey Salsa! How did you read Fred’s recent set of posts?

I find their lack of...content or reads or good faith engagement with arguments (as in, the “I can’t respond to you unless there is something specific to respond to” or “I ignored your post about your suspicions on me because that was just your opinion and you can’t argue opinion”) as a fairly polarizing take; they are either very scummy for it, or very town.

I also do not believe a Fred/Enchant partnership is anywhere close to as likely as EZ does.

Hey EZ, did Fred’s recent posts effect your partnership take at all? Or do you still think they could come from a scumbuddy of Enchant?

I find enchant’s read on fredrick very convenient, he provides reasoning for everyone of his reads yet when it comes to fredrick his “reasoning” was a lot of filler

[esotericzoomer]

scratch that- his entire readslist is convenient.

[esotericzoomer]

I find enchant’s read on fredrick very convenient, he provides reasoning for everyone of his reads yet when it comes to fredrick his “reasoning” was a lot of filler

I mean their read on me is very similar/predicted Prisms read on me today. I don’t think it’s all filler.

the fred read is filler
"Fredrick A Campbell (SE) - Town?

He hardly read game at all. I made some strange tests and can say he is probably town. Probably."
this is nothing compared to even his nullreads

[esotericzoomer]

i dont

[esotericzoomer]

He hardly read game at all.

Lowkey I think this first bit is a valid read. The rest, sure, filler, strange tests, okay, but:

Right now, reading Fred is deciding wether the fact that he has barely read and engaged with the game is:
1. scum trying to fly under the radar
2. slightly disinterested or busy town.

Scum by definition cannot be totally uninformed and totally disengaged, as catching up in a PT is a lot quicker than catching up to 35+ pages. Also they know the answers already. As scum, being disengaged and not having caught up is an act, especially if they are partnered with Enchant.

Problem is, I read their confusion/lack of engagement as pretty legitimate. A little anti-town, but not obvscum.

Not saying I townread Fred, I’m pretty null, but that’s my process for sorting Fred atm. Enchant’s read actually mentions it. So it’s not all filler. Hardly reading the game is a legit if very speculative reason to townlean someone.

it in no way stands for a reason to townlean someone
saying, "he's hardly ever here" or "he hasn't read the game" is very much a copout way to read someone, i guarantee you he didn't read it the same way you do

[esotericzoomer]

im sorry luca, i get your frustration now

[esotericzoomer]

we're running out of things to discuss because people are super paranoid about their votes and it's drawing this out far longer than it needs to be

[esotericzoomer]

You want a thousand post day 1.

Fair enough.

Fine, I’ll bring it up, this could get us there.
Do we want to gamble the game day1 that Enchant is just self hating town that had a shitty experience getting miselimed and feels that this is the best way to play? Following the principal of flipping my mind, what if

Yes I know this is stupid

We just townlock them, don’t reconsider till ElLo, and get back to hunting?

Downside: they’re always making it to ElLo, which has challenges both if townEnchant or scumEnchant.
Downside: it’s def not GTO (optimal) play, this would be like a huge exploit that could easily screw town day1.

Upside: kinda think Enchant might be town
Upside: gives us 5 more posts
Upside: let’s me ask the question, if Enchant was off the table, who gets elimmed today?

Also why isn’t Enchant elimmed already? It’s an incredibly strange wagon dynamic that so many people seem to be just paying passively, not commenting on the Enchant wagon or what happened, and not declaring if they’re going to vote or not vote. I would not expect the game to freeze like this.

this is what i mean by paranoia
you are literally considering locktowning someone who arguably scumslipped and letting them resolve themselves in the random chance theyre a 'selfhating town'

[esotericzoomer]

Also why isn’t Enchant elimmed already?

I don’t mean this like someone do it already (but also that’s fine), I mean this like why is the dynamic since page 25 when flow started this wagon been so......strange and glacial with so many people flat out ignoring this wagon?

Like lowkey I might go back and track down which players have addressed it. Some players just haven’t it seems like.

then you'd have to assume theres a scum on this wagon
and we'd figure it out if he got limmed

there is zero reason not to let this die

[esotericzoomer]

I did preface it by saying it’s stupid as all hell.

But if it takes three more posts to satisfy our resident chaos god Flow here, then dammit I’ll fall on that blade.

If Enchnt were off limits, you’d want Fred, I assume?

If by offlimits you mean until F-3, I want fred only if enchant is eventually limmed

[esotericzoomer]

let me rephrase that a bit
if by offlimits you mean until f-3, then no

[esotericzoomer]

then yeah i would

[esotericzoomer]

Can we compromise at 50 minutes?

i hate you
vote please

[esotericzoomer]

Ok VOTE: esotericzoomer