TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

[innocentvillager]

blacklisting all of the worsts teammates worked beautifully

confirmed town

[innocentvillager]

hm this is slower than I expected

let’s keep it that way!

[innocentvillager]

Hercules town i think

[innocentvillager]

dannflor townish

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: the worst

VOTE: ythan

Sup wit dis?

changed my mind

decided I valued attempting to start a wagon more than voting ducky

In all of half a minute?

sooooooo what do you think now

[innocentvillager]

I think we're friends now. This has been a magical moment, thank you.

Xtoxm you'd better believe I'm coming at you for rolling scum without me.

so we werent before? damn.

hmhm
i wonder if we're finally same team this time

of course WE are friends I was talking to ythan!

I know better than to guess your alignment on pg1 and I'm a bit confused you are already thinking this about me lol. what have I done that's struck you at this point?

scum.

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: the worst i wanted to play a town game with you for once Worsty

why did you roll scum without me

[innocentvillager]

ok Datisi scumreads me like every game at this point lmaoooo

[innocentvillager]

I’m not scummmmmmm I promise !

[innocentvillager]

town: hercule, Dannflor, AGar

conflicted: the worst/Daddisi hydra

scum: VOTE: unwnd

[innocentvillager]

good vote unwnd, why did you make it though

sooo why was unwnd's vote good but then you proceeded to criticize his reasoning for voting me as NAI? do you have a different reason for calling his vote good?

[innocentvillager]

dannflor was townish because he switched votes at the beginning of the day in less than half a minute for no reason at all

there, that's my reasoning

[innocentvillager]

AGar is town because he noticed that and succinctly questioned it without shading it

[innocentvillager]

nvm i don't really scumread unwnd yet

but i will be watching u closely sir

[innocentvillager]

yeah it's still "shade" technically but it's still like, direct engagement with Dannflor which is good

[innocentvillager]

I do think the worst has been awkward and is deserving of votes, would vote for him and IV at this point. Not necessarily both together

VOTE: Dunnstral

[innocentvillager]

the way I saw it was, shading someone while directly engaging them/asking questions isn't scummy while indirect shading that doesn't directly engage them IS scummy, like they're trying to make them miselimable for the rest of the town

it's the whole like, if im scum and i see a townie do something scummy thing, I really don't want to directly engage them and ask them genuine questions about why they did what they did because I know it's real thought process. id be scared they might end up towntelling

idk, I got aggressive-inquisitive town!AGar vibes from the entrance and maybe im stretching the reasoning a bit but whatever

[innocentvillager]

I do think the worst has been awkward and is deserving of votes, would vote for him and IV at this point. Not necessarily both together

VOTE: Dunnstral

Explain

hmm maybe part of it was me thinking the "not necessarily both together" was a bit awkward LOL

[innocentvillager]

He implied that super was reading this game at post 13, which implies that he's town since his teammate is reading into this game. This is easy to fake and isn't necessarily my read as a whole, I'm just pointing it out. I think Hopkirk saw that but nobody else referenced that as a reason to townread him

also how do you feel about Datisi reading this game? does that make the worst town equity go up?

[innocentvillager]

I do think the worst has been awkward and is deserving of votes, would vote for him and IV at this point. Not necessarily both together

VOTE: Dunnstral

Explain

hmm maybe part of it was me thinking the "not necessarily both together" was a bit awkward LOL

How so?

I'm saying that I don't really believe you're both scum, mainly from the way the worst came to your defense not feeling like partners

im more concerned with the fact that this "reflects a mindset" that you're trying to solve the game on literally like pg 8 and I don't know if that's a real town mindset

[innocentvillager]

like if we're both scummy in your eyes why do you even need to think about associations between us? you should probably be equally willing to vote us regardless

pedit: why is that different?

[innocentvillager]

I think we're friends now. This has been a magical moment, thank you.

Xtoxm you'd better believe I'm coming at you for rolling scum without me.

so we werent before? damn.

hmhm
i wonder if we're finally same team this time

@unwnd how do you feel about this entrance?

[innocentvillager]

It feels like you're making this up as you go along and tacking on whatever reason to scumread me

i am, is that scummy?

[innocentvillager]

I am equally willing to vote you both, isn't that what I said?
I didn't make a big deal out of the associative thing, I was just giving my thoughts.

yeah you did say that

idk, i just feel like it's weird to even be trying to think about associatives this early on in a huge game, that was the accusation, probably more NAI than I thought

and i think i just misunderstood your wording. you said "there is a reason to have hercule as town" and i thought that was a reason you were townreading him, even if only slightly. If you think partner reading the thread is NAI for you (i disagree) then there's nothing there.

[innocentvillager]

Dunnstral mega town off of this interaction.

UNVOTE: Dunnstral

im willing to do this but can you explain how you got "megatown"?

[innocentvillager]

nvm the worst is prob town

[innocentvillager]

xtoxm town

[innocentvillager]

ythan town

From what I understand, IV likes being town. His best option if he's not town is to lead with nonsense and then assume someone town reads him by his gestures; this can include fluffy nonsense. The way he convinced himself that you were scummy did not sit right for me.

this might actually be a real thought because this is exactly what I tried to do to (while pocketing the worst) in Mini 2160! but i can't do that anymore, it only works once. im curious as to how you know me so well... my towngames you've seen me in were pretty different

pedit: what are you confused/thinking about?

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: OkaPoka

[innocentvillager]

IV

You still have nervous energy

The best way I would further describe what seems to be wrong with you is that you believe solving to be a catch-all towntell, but it's like

Page 10? What necessity is there to solve on page 10. Changing your mind or seeming like 'oh man, I'm just so worried about everything!' does not make you town

If you are town, stop forcing yourself to do things thanks

bro what are you even talking about lol

[innocentvillager]

no I honestly do not understand what you are trying to say

[innocentvillager]

i don’t understand why you are singling me out for giving my reads on the gamestate as it comes to me

[innocentvillager]

agar weak but I do explain it later

Daddisi hydra was a joke because worsty made a reference to Datisi scumreading me (I assume)

[innocentvillager]

I don’t know that I am going to flop on a read 10 min later when I make it, lol, it just looks that way in hindsight

I like interacting with people and giving stances even if I am “forcing myself to do things”

But i can respect the suggestion to change my out of the gate D1 playstyle to be a little bit less hyper SOC and a bit more thoughtful so I Will lean more in that direction

[innocentvillager]

Ftr, I am kind of feeling you as town now (yes, I am going to say it here instead of “head/PT”)

[innocentvillager]

no one is really on rn from my DC tbh

Sirius is sleeping/idk if he’s gonna read my game tbh lol
Ico is V/LA
Gypyx is the only one I’m really talking to atm but I don’t think he’s caught up with my game yet

[innocentvillager]

Pipe down ABR I still rememmber Fake Peoples

i do too but what has he even done so far to warrant you saying that

[innocentvillager]

IV

You still have nervous energy

The best way I would further describe what seems to be wrong with you is that you believe solving to be a catch-all towntell, but it's like

Page 10? What necessity is there to solve on page 10. Changing your mind or seeming like 'oh man, I'm just so worried about everything!' does not make you town

If you are town, stop forcing yourself to do things thanks

bro what are you even talking about lol

This feels like a very awkward response to what I read as a very genuine towny reach out. Personally, that's not how I would react to something like unwnd's post and innocent villager's response here seems devoid of actually trying to understand unwnd or really dig deeper into the reasons people are sorting IV as scummy

I suppose there is something to be said for not taking the easy olive branch, but on the whole it feels more dismissive than anything else, which doesn't really feel like a town approach to the game in general but certainly not this sort of attempted engagement

why are you analyzing this reaction in isolation without at all commenting on the followup conversation we had? what did you think of that?

i genuinely think what unwnd said in that particular post was confusing and i was saying, albeit in a bit of a snippy way, that his accusation was not making sense

[innocentvillager]

I am not liking Hopkirk's non-game related busywork. It feels like game avoidance.

meh even though most of hopkirk's posts are not really game related he's still in the upper %'s of game related posts

I don't get good feelings from any of the posts because they are massively bloated.

I prefer terse, meaning-dense posts like #329.

I’m surprised you townread me then! Lol

[innocentvillager]

from my experience ABR is pretty readable especially deeper into the game. Unwnd was in those games too so I’d imagine he feels similarly. im willing to just let that one stew

[innocentvillager]

hahah oh boy more votes

im not as easy to miseliminate as i was before, sorry scum

mark your fucking days

[innocentvillager]

i don't really like the general scope of this comment? are there any specific votes you don't like on you right now

by general scope do you mean my scope is too generally sahding my votes? or you generally don't like my scope?

im gonna assume the former, but to answer your question no not really in particular atm. i will look more at some point maybe

[innocentvillager]

gypyx and i agree unwnd is town. i think he's more confident than i am. to paraphrase, he thinks the push on me at the start was a bad case but his entrance and engagement with me was towny, all of which i agree with and none of this matches his general busy/narrativy bullshit scum style. this might be my first real townread, congratulations unwnd.

[innocentvillager]

by real i mean a read i feel somewhat more confident in.

[innocentvillager]

i don't really like the general scope of this comment? are there any specific votes you don't like on you right now

by general scope do you mean my scope is too generally sahding my votes? or you generally don't like my scope?

im gonna assume the former, but to answer your question no not really in particular atm. i will look more at some point maybe

not even my vote?!

i don't townread you like, whatsoever but you also have like 20 contentless posts which is fine. your vote on me was like "lol look at me im so sheepy lol" which yeah could be scum deflecting responsibility but maybe not. idk.

[innocentvillager]

am i not allowed to give gut reads and then come up with a reason afterwards to potentially explain why i might've had that read? this is to everyone who has been like "omg, you didn't explain your read progression from A->B->C, i can't follow, scum!"

[innocentvillager]

so u dont like my vote on you

mild dislike sure

[innocentvillager]

i don't really think about it in that way necessarily

i townread unwnd, Dannflor so I don't necessarily mind their votes?

i don't townread you, Ceph, Dunnstral (conflicted on him will have to reread, but i feel like i should have an opinion there maybe idk)

so maybe i don't like you, Ceph, or Dunnstral 's votes because I don't townread any of you? idk what you're looking for here exactly

[innocentvillager]

how come you didn't mention Oka's when I asked but did when he asked specifically? had you not looking at the context of his vote until then? if so then answering me with a none stand out feels like an incomplete answer to me.. i feel kind of sad if he's worth responding to and i'm not

it felt like a lot of effort to look at everyone's vote on me at the time so I didn't go back and reread, just gave my impressions at the time which really was none, I don't necessarily look at the votes themselves. more directed questions like Oka's are easier to answer so i went back and iso'd him and came up with that. it's nothing personal hopkirk lol

also excuse my tone if i sound snippy rn, i promise im more chill normally

[innocentvillager]

i don't really think about it in that way necessarily

i townread unwnd, Dannflor so I don't necessarily mind their votes?

i don't townread you, Ceph, Dunnstral (conflicted on him will have to reread, but i feel like i should have an opinion there maybe idk)

so maybe i don't like you, Ceph, or Dunnstral 's votes because I don't townread any of you? idk what you're looking for here exactly

im just looking for clarification because the way i read it, you said to hopkirk you didn't dislike any of the votes on you in particular. but you did naked vote me after me voting you so it did seem like you had a gripe with me voting you

tbh i forgot you were voting me so i don't think that was the main reason i voted you

i voted you because of the lol!sheepiness that I got a meh vibe on

[innocentvillager]

this is honestly a lot to keep up with

i need to actually read some of the other games now but i will be back at some point today/tmr to do better analysis

[innocentvillager]

i will look more at some point maybe

wait im confused I literally said i would look into it maybe?

[innocentvillager]

idk if you remember modding one of my newbie games 7 or 8 years ago. probably not best to look at that for meta in case you were wondering. i tried to use 15 year old meta on someone once and it wasn't especially useful, so 7/8 year old stuff is only going to be like idk, half useful i guess

i do! i remembered your name from a while ago. it's nice to see other oldies on here

same with you, Okapoka

i don't even look at games from years ago though, it's just so outdated

like my playstyle now is completely different from even 4 or 5 years ago, lol.

[innocentvillager]

lean townish, maybe even one of my top townreads at the moment

brief bullet points on this?

[innocentvillager]

IV when you get the chance I'm interested in your read on the worst

im gonna be revisiting this one over and fucking over again this game, i know it

the idea of finally rolling town with worsty and steamrolling scum together has been one of my MS wishes for like the past 2 months or so, and after all that waiting, this might finally be my chance!

rn it's leantown i think with the engagement and with the hinting on Datisi scumreading me so early (inside thing where town!Datisi has tunneled early town!me for two games in a row, i like that Datisi gave the read and the worst mentioned it unprompted). his entrance felt forced but on reread it's not bad. could be some confbiasing going on there so im conflicted, idk, im gonna just like worsty be a slow burn read for me.

okay time to focus on other games for realz now

[innocentvillager]

kind of scummy post imo

lately ive been reading scum PTs postgame and gotten annoyed when I see my miselimination (or anyone's really, but mostly mine) on their agenda, whether they're on my wagon or not

lol, it was an emotional/ego reaction thing, don't read too much into it! (and to the other person/people who did)

[innocentvillager]

agar flashwagon is whatever as long as it doesn't actually turn into a claim before he gets to post a lot more

still weak townlean there

[innocentvillager]

agar flashwagon is whatever as long as it doesn't actually turn into a claim before he gets to post a lot more

still weak townlean there

Can I ask you a favor?

what favor

[innocentvillager]

sooooooo what do you think now

Trying to take a look at what's going on with AGar and this sure was an odd post from IV.

odd how? i wanted to know if he still thought it Dann's switch was scummy given the response

[innocentvillager]

sooooooo what do you think now

Trying to take a look at what's going on with AGar and this sure was an odd post from IV.

odd how? i wanted to know if he still thought it Dann's switch was scummy given the response

Because why not just wait for AGar to respond rather than chiming in emptily.

well how was i supposed to know for sure he was going to get back to this

this post is the reason for your "jittery" read on me?

[innocentvillager]

That's why, are you trying to change it?, not why are you trying to change it?

im confused, i saw that you posted this

Hercules, Innocent V, Jack, and Duck give me jitters.

and this was the only mention of me

sooooooo what do you think now

Trying to take a look at what's going on with AGar and this sure was an odd post from IV.

so i just want a clarification if this post (90) is the main reason I "give you jitters". that's all

[innocentvillager]

IV could you catch me up on how you're looking at this game rn?
Assume I have read and will probably read nothing

hi i was worried u forgot about me for a second

what do you want to know?

[innocentvillager]

im surprised you're more disengaged/less hyperposty than i would've expected

any particular reason? (just curious)

[innocentvillager]

most exciting is that i don't have a red role PM in this madness, to be totally honest

[innocentvillager]

im conflicted on the AGar wagon and im waiting for my team to give some input as well

i don't find him that scummy and it's reminscent of his town tone but nothing makes me go "omg townspew"

also playing a poker tournament rn but can half-heartedly post in the meantime

[innocentvillager]

why and how confident is "net towny"? from your ISO i see your reasons given were 1) you liked his callout of Dann's "overperformativeness" in his quick vote switch at the beginning and 2) you liked his knee jerk reaction (im assuming his omgus on ceph? or was it the other one? i liked his omgus on ceph)

i don't have any scumreads. my townreads are hercule and unwnd and I doubt any of that is going to change soon. My nullpile looks something like {Dunnstral, Winter Flakes, Titus, AGar, OkaPoka, Cephrir, DGB}

[innocentvillager]

if i don't have scumreads and ive given my townreads and my nullpile, any guesses on where the rest of you are?

(ok, ok, varying degrees of townleans)

[innocentvillager]

actually, i should've clarified that when i said "i don't have scumreads" i really mean "no one is really below my nullpile". so nvm, i apologize

[innocentvillager]

hopkirk while im on is there anything in particular you want to discuss/want my opinion on?

[innocentvillager]

hopkirk while im on is there anything in particular you want to discuss/want my opinion on?

just FYI dude this kind of thing has strong "please force me to solve" energy which makes me pretty lukewarm about you

could you try taking a bit more intuitive even if you're not vibing it? I'm a bit loathe to trust you being cute and lost and trying to outsource reads after our last game.

lol townreading this reachout, oops, yeah that's fair

what do you mean by "ta(l)king a bit more intuitive even if im not vibing it?"

[innocentvillager]

try and put your reads forward rather than asking people to ask you for your reads

hopkirk just referenced your townreads which is making me sweat, do I need to read back?

fine, i didn't really want to make a full readslist with reasoning but you're right that it's probably better to at least proactively give reasons for a few of them at this point

im confused on the second sentence? i gave them in 811

[innocentvillager]

who are the people between your townreads and null pile?

everyone i didn't mention

{Xtoxm, ABR, Hopkirk, Ythan, the worst, Dannflor, JacksonVirgo, Almost50}

[innocentvillager]

again multitasking which is why this took so long

Hopkirk is close to a townread but he is not at the level of unwnd or hercule for me. i get the feeling he's just a good player which makes me paranoid of his scumrange. honestly my eyes glaze over his posting (potentially not ideal) but the vibe I get is that it looks like he's being helpful and engaging everyone in an effort to understand what's going on. if he's establishing himself to push an agenda i have a feeling we'll see it later but im very okay having this slot around for now.

JacksonVirgo - mostly a tonal read. i don't love 526 or 533 but the posts i thought were +town are: 534, 597, 598, 599, 647, 648. it's hard to explain it beyond just being openly frustrated and utterly not giving a shit about his thread perception which i have found in practice (in my anecdotal experience) to be a towntell for him.

A50 - this is like exactly the same as A50 in this one towngame we played and not at all how he played in this scumgame we did (granted he replaced in, which is different). there are moments like 112, 116, 619, 622 that ring eerily similar. "but it's just A50's playstyle!" you might say. okay sure maybe, that's why he's one of my weaker townleans i guess. also 737 is a really weird thing to post as scum but i obliged him since someone on my team thinks he can read him ok.

Xtoxm - unprompted and unpostury/interesting notes from Auro are good, i liked 642 for example. don't see an agenda from this slot, not postury, takes are pretty reasonable. other people townreading them too despite lack of content quantity which feels good. weaker townlean probably

TW - ill likely be revisiting this a lot bc im paranoid. here's the reasoning i gave earlier

rn it's leantown i think with the engagement and with the hinting on Datisi scumreading me so early (inside thing where town!Datisi has tunneled early town!me for two games in a row, i like that Datisi gave the read and the worst mentioned it unprompted). his entrance felt forced but on reread it's not bad. could be some confbiasing going on there so im conflicted, idk, im gonna just like worsty be a slow burn read for me.

and i think with your recent interaction with me im townreading you even more. i think your disengagement from this game is fine in the context of being busy and maybe even +town in a vacuum. also i think it's easy for scum!you to try and pocket me and you've done everything but engage with me and pocket me.

[innocentvillager]

oh Dannflor-

Dannflor as town i think was a pretty consensus take and i liked his entrance posting with some of his early thoughts, i haven't looked at him too much beyond that. i don't know his scumrange though and nothing he's done seems that hard to fake by good scum. there's also the fact that you called him out for being "overperformative" that influenced my read on him negatively a bit.

[innocentvillager]

oh man i am a sucker for convincing self meta arguments

[innocentvillager]

ive asked gypyx to give his thoughts on unwnd, agar and a50 in that order. he gave his read on unwnd and he's gonna get around to the other two later. i can put you next in the queue if you'd like

ico is still V/LA is sirius is ? not sure

pedit: yeah it's mostly just tonal idk im also probably worse at tonal reads than i think i am! lol

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Titus fine with this

[innocentvillager]

agar, to be fair, worsty's reaction to your lack of vote reminds me of this

VOTE: the worst

VOTE: ythan

Sup wit dis?

changed my mind

decided I valued attempting to start a wagon more than voting ducky

In all of half a minute?

[innocentvillager]

@IV: The one who claims to know how to read me would be Iconeum, wouldn't it? I am also interested in Gypys' & Sirius' reads (Sirius had more experience with me as a mod I think)

i haven't really talked with Ico yet, it was Gypyx

but i just asked everyone for you since you seem so intent on this

[innocentvillager]

agar, to be fair, worsty's reaction to your lack of vote reminds me of this

VOTE: the worst

VOTE: ythan

Sup wit dis?

changed my mind

decided I valued attempting to start a wagon more than voting ducky

In all of half a minute?

How so? They are completely different situations.

both are directly and concisely questioning something that was very obviously left out (in Dann's case, the super fast naked vote change, in your case the lack of vote in that same post)

my point is that i believe that it's probably not a scum!indicative type of question

[innocentvillager]

congrats A50 gypyx thinks you’re town

[innocentvillager]

On that track, would love it if someone would maybe help me out here:

Can someone else read 763 and tell me if it feels bad? I cannot separate my thoughts from the fact that I feel I would in fact be a bad yeet because I'm town and I have given very little to work with post-flip up until these last two posts. I go back and forth on unwnd in general because the early push on IV felt contrived and very much trying to shut a town player down from doing something to get them townread, but later posting was fine and consistent. Binning them as null right now because I can't get a handle on the slot, even with a read, an ISO dive, and a re-read.

hmmm what don't you like about it? im biased because I townread unwnd but I don't see why this kind of post doesn't come from town

he's not explicitly suggesting the wagon should/can get quickhammered and I don't think people would do that so early in a more serious game like TM, he's just saying the wagon is good. if you think he's indirectly suggesting you "could" be flipped soon (or cementing that you should be the eventual flip today) and that would be fine then... maybe in isolation that's +scum agenda-y? i think i might see why you're apprehensive about it but to me it leans NAI for the most part.

[innocentvillager]

This is a pretty lame read

what don't you like about my Xtoxm read? i said it's a weaker townlean but i don't think any of the reasoning i gave was necessarily "lame"

[innocentvillager]

again multitasking which is why this took so long

Hopkirk is close to a townread but he is not at the level of unwnd or hercule for me. i get the feeling he's just a good player which makes me paranoid of his scumrange. honestly my eyes glaze over his posting (potentially not ideal) but the vibe I get is that it looks like he's being helpful and engaging everyone in an effort to understand what's going on. if he's establishing himself to push an agenda i have a feeling we'll see it later but im very okay having this slot around for now.

JacksonVirgo - mostly a tonal read. i don't love 526 or 533 but the posts i thought were +town are: 534, 597, 598, 599, 647, 648. it's hard to explain it beyond just being openly frustrated and utterly not giving a shit about his thread perception which i have found in practice (in my anecdotal experience) to be a towntell for him.

A50 - this is like exactly the same as A50 in this one towngame we played and not at all how he played in this scumgame we did (granted he replaced in, which is different). there are moments like 112, 116, 619, 622 that ring eerily similar. "but it's just A50's playstyle!" you might say. okay sure maybe, that's why he's one of my weaker townleans i guess. also 737 is a really weird thing to post as scum but i obliged him since someone on my team thinks he can read him ok.

Xtoxm - unprompted and unpostury/interesting notes from Auro are good, i liked 642 for example. don't see an agenda from this slot, not postury, takes are pretty reasonable. other people townreading them too despite lack of content quantity which feels good. weaker townlean probably

TW - ill likely be revisiting this a lot bc im paranoid. here's the reasoning i gave earlier

rn it's leantown i think with the engagement and with the hinting on Datisi scumreading me so early (inside thing where town!Datisi has tunneled early town!me for two games in a row, i like that Datisi gave the read and the worst mentioned it unprompted). his entrance felt forced but on reread it's not bad. could be some confbiasing going on there so im conflicted, idk, im gonna just like worsty be a slow burn read for me.

and i think with your recent interaction with me im townreading you even more. i think your disengagement from this game is fine in the context of being busy and maybe even +town in a vacuum. also i think it's easy for scum!you to try and pocket me and you've done everything but engage with me and pocket me.

I'm ok adding IV to my townblock

i dont think that's how townblocks work

iv is voting you

Haven't got there yet, but I'm ok with putting him in my never eliminate pile.

me being on your "never eliminate pile" is solely due to that post I made? why do you townread that one so much?

[innocentvillager]

agar flashwagon is whatever as long as it doesn't actually turn into a claim before he gets to post a lot more

still weak townlean there

Can I ask you a favor?

DGB what was the favor you wanted but never asked for?

why did you read change from town to null on me?

[innocentvillager]

lilith is the one with the read on me? Interesting...how about Datisi lol

[innocentvillager]

agar flashwagon is whatever as long as it doesn't actually turn into a claim before he gets to post a lot more

still weak townlean there

Can I ask you a favor?

DGB what was the favor you wanted but never asked for?

why did you read change from town to null on me?

I wanted for you to make a detailed read on... I forget who. It's past the "best before" date now.

How about we update, and you give reads on Xtoxm and Ythan?

dgb I will update you on Ythan I’ll need to look there again, had him as a townlean for early posting

I had Xtoxm as a weak townlean and I gave reasoning in 832. I feel like this read got weaker, especially with building scumreads on them and lack of content from this slot? so yeah idk I doubt I’m going to stand in the way of that wagon for now

[innocentvillager]

scum a typically reluctant to hard tr a slot thats going for them
auro also feels titus recent content is towny

"going for them"? iv has the assertion of a damp napkin. what scum is afraid of townreading him?

can auro expand on that please?

hahahaha ilu too <3

it's accurate especially at this nebulous d1 stage where i don't have scumreads yet i don't take offense

i do agree that the "scum are afraid to hard TR someone 'pushing them'" seems like a bad take though, especially in the context you said where im getting more and more townread and am unconfidently sitting on the wagon. might be slightly +scum for Xtoxm

[innocentvillager]

@Dann
could i have a summary of your reads on duun, titus, agar, hopkirk, tw, and myself

seems kind of random, what makes you want to know about these people specifically/why dann? he did like ghost this game kinda, is this your way of getting him to post more content or something

[innocentvillager]

gonna be level with you i don't think scum look scummy this game. i just doubt they look towny.

id love to hear more about this hypothesis. and why is "this game" different from a normal game?

[innocentvillager]

dgb I will update you on Ythan I’ll need to look there again, had him as a townlean for early posting

so I think I was townleaning Ythan pre-212 because of the brashness/tone that he didn't care about his thread presence. I thought the 1v1 with hercule was potentially +town and even the little things like "Morning friends." and just leaving.

Looking at him post-212 he gives a similar vibe. I remember it was almost impossible to figure out what reads/stance town!Ythan had in this one game we played (Open 786) and this isn't the same but still reminiscent of that. OTOH some scum just don't give a fuck about thread presence so im willing to accept this *could* be NAI behavior from Ythan if others know him better. Two reactions stuck out to me:

1) 728, 734, 738.
-nothing crazy here but this kind of indifference to hercule/stubborness about his own read feels genuine? ("it's my read and what i saw/think, so, whatever, deal with it" -kind of attitude)

2) His scumlean on me is random and not substantiated (764, 767, 780, 794, 795, 799)
-essentially he quoted some random post of mine that was weird, then said i along with 2 others gave him "jitters". since he didn't say anything else about it I tried to pin him down on whether or not that post was why he was scumreading me and he basically insinuated that I was misrepping him/"changing it".

Idk, it just feels like a towny mindset that like he has this nebula of thoughts on why I'm scummy then picked out an additional quote from me he thought was weird, and then when asked whether or not that was the reason, he felt like I was asking something really strange. It's possible I've completely misinterpreted this interaction but I'd expect scum!Ythan to realize that my line of questioning is genuine so it's obviously coming from

somewhere

(because he knows im town), then respond in a less "aggressive" (i can't think of a fitting word, maybe light aggression lol) manner

i think, with all this in mind im seeing Ythan as a player who is simply here to have a good time and completely and utterly unconcerned with thread presence/public continuation of thought. he appears to believe what he sees/interprets and gets shows suspicions when others try to challenge the authenticity of his thoughts (hercule, me). im therefore leaning town on ythan, without any real meta knowledge of his scumrange.

[innocentvillager]

she strongly scumread IV at the time but probably agrees with me at this point that he's more likely town (she's anxious about his cutesie/clueless approach to the game because he's proven able to emulate it as scum, but i do think he's pushing himself with reads in a way which he'd struggle with as scum - this is an epic tangent).

while i'm going back i made a note that viewtopic.php?p=12522178#p12522178 <== this was either co-written or outside of IV's scumrange, and probably not cowritten because it missed dancefloor

im not sure how i feel about you flipping on me so easily, was my scumgame in 2160 really that devoid of reads/analysis? (lmao if that's what you thought it was that's fine)

if i was scum here i would absolutely be pushing myself here despite probably hating myself for most of it as well since this is a big team event (if it was a regular game, fuck that lol), and since it's easier for me to deepwolf through D1. i think a decent amount of 2160 was like, just barely outside my scumrange at that time. You know that im the kind of person who doesn't like to let teammates down, lol.

idk, i just remember you using the argument "i think innocentvillager would be really struggling here to post the way he's been doing as scum" in 2160, and now you're using that same argument despite being wrong on it once which makes me wonder what's different here to you.

[innocentvillager]

to be clear when you say scum!me would be "struggling to play this way", yes I believe you're totally on point with that but I also think scum!me will struggle, which is what you saw in 2160, which is why I'm wondering why you're evaluating my slot this way. sorry im not very eloquent

also i am almost entirely playing this game by myself aorn, Sirius and Ico are definitely not following my game and ive only been asking Gypyx to help me make the occasional ISO.

[innocentvillager]

dgb is definitely faking reads

dgb is overly confident on reads as town from my experience, but usually will casework it a bit

im just hoping one of the people with decades of experience with em will explain everything so later

can you elaborate on this?

by faking reads do you mean giving out a read you don't actually believe in? what's the town and scum motivation for doing that? do you think this is AI (independent of the opinions of people who have "decades of experience" with her, lol)?

i agree with DGB appearing confident on reads, town!DGB entered like this in LN 230 as well, stating reads as fact with no explanation (even similar to what i did early game here). I'm not sure what you mean by "casework" them a bit? is that what she's doing here?

[innocentvillager]

Hmm IV is causing me to waver in my Ythan scumread. I see what IV is,seeing. I have to think about this.

can you explain your read progression on me? i was town, then null upon your ISOing, now im ??

[innocentvillager]

@IV - I had an impulsive town read. Then you were under attack by others, your tone changed and I wasn't sure if you were defensive town or actually scum, and felt the need for more information. That's where I am at.

thanks! i have a quick follow-up thought/question if you don't mind answering

im interested why you didn't mention my recent post on Ythan in here. I would've thought that you'd townread me at least little more since you "see what I see" wrt Ythan.

if you weren't expecting to walk away from this question (asking me about my Ythan and Xtoxm reads) with a slightly better understanding of my alignment, then I'm left wondering why you asked ME this question in the first place/if you really nullread my Ythan post despite agreeing with it.

[innocentvillager]

well im agreeing with hopkirk in that i dont see an AI motivation for her dumping confident fake reads, DGB says it was rvs nonsense so okay i guess.

dgb is not really caseworking in the sense that there is some explanation with quotes and responses / analysis to certain posts. in my limited experience with dgb, there a little bit of that

ok thanks so DGB is pretty null to you/potentially +scum from the lack of read explanation so far?

[innocentvillager]

lol hopkirk hopped in there real quick

[innocentvillager]

lol hopkirk hopped in there real quick

what exactly are you implying?

it's 6.30 in the UK and i finished doing some visible other stuff. when do you expect someone with a job to start posting, lunchtime?

nothing really, the timing was just coincidentally right when he made his case so it looked funny, that's all, probably NAI

[innocentvillager]

hercule lets use the power of friendship to make hopkirk and unwnd friends at least for today

random note but i was trying to remember what game we played together and i found it (did we play more?? idk)

good times <3

[innocentvillager]

ikik same but what a g a l a x y b r a i n scum win that was

[innocentvillager]

this is unwnd's most recent scumgame (i believe), hopefully me picking it out is less biased than unwnd picking a scumgame out. he definitely puts in the effort as scum, y'all can make your own conclusions about him if you want

[innocentvillager]

if anypne's wondering oka feels very engaged and sincere and like, the game i remember with him i thought he might be too scummy to be scum and he was actually scum, so i'm a bit dubious about his ability to fake the just like, happy lighthearted mood that radiates from his posts

yea oka is towny as fuck

i was wondering tbh yeah

so it's mostly just a tonal read?

[innocentvillager]

Morning friends.

i don't get all this shade at the worst, don't think he's been unimpressive (ur always impressive to me!) or too agreeable.

will catch up at some point, have been putting off other games though so need to get to those first.

[innocentvillager]

hot take Hopkirk v unwnd is SvS

[innocentvillager]

i feel like unwnd is taking out his frustration at modern hyperposting town meta at Hopkirk and I think it probably comes from a town mindset in a vacuum

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Xtoxm

[innocentvillager]

nah, someone just hammer its probably fine

[innocentvillager]

all this flashwagon hopping and dying on low content slots is bizarre and making me nauseous

I don’t have anything more to add other than that, is this like how we’re supposed to play larges or something

[innocentvillager]

Here's my take on xtoxm and why I think he's null

You have to put yourself in a suspension of disbelief that xtoxm (along with his partners) see he's at E-2 whatever and not have some sort of reaction to it? If that's a gameplan and he's just going down for the towncred, who the hell is bussing him? There is slanker scum, I'm not denying that possibility. It's just that I think even the most feeble scum could see the town rallying to kill him and at least want to do some FUD before they're out the door

I would like this answered from the 'xtoxm is obvscum' crowd

Counterpoint: Why would they do that as town?

Slanking either way, not everything needs a reason

ABR is being very awkward. Not sure if he's town or scum here but he's certainly derailed this wagon.

I think we should stick to xtoxm today

good posting

[innocentvillager]

i want to vibe with mastina posting but im just not getting anything

[innocentvillager]

The level of certainty that xtoxm is scum is obnoxious to me. Same with the wagon on me. It's hard to play some good mafia with this herd mentality.

this probably comes from a town mindset more often than scum

[innocentvillager]

I feel like this sudden concern about a phantom group of people that are deadset on xtoxm obv scum is made up

tbh i feel similarly to abr so even if it's wrong it might not be made up

[innocentvillager]

nice

[innocentvillager]

did xtoxm die yet?

[innocentvillager]

that might be the most number of times I’ve seen my name and have it not be about me whatsoever

[innocentvillager]

ugh sorry guys I don’t know what the best way to get back into this is, I’m so far behind at this point and don’t have the motivation to read the last 50 pages

[innocentvillager]

one thing that is annoying to me is that like, there seems to be a okay reason to townlean like everyone in this game who is actively posting

I genuinely do not have any scumleans

[innocentvillager]

current favorite wagon

Xtoxm

My would-wagons today are

Agar Cepheus winter dannflor titus (?)

Wouldn’t oppose but probably wouldn’t join are

Ythan DGB dunnstral mastina

Would oppose

A50, the worst, Hopkins, Hercules, okapoka, unwnd, YBR

is very roughly where I’m at

[innocentvillager]

hmm maybe put A50 back in the above section? Him being off in his own universe and openly begging for townreads from teams seemed +town but maybe I’m overestimating that one

YBR is just kind of a tonal read, I feel like he is a very polarized player

I’ve never seen Dunnstral this engaged with all this reasoning so it makes me think +town but I’ve never really played with scum Dunn in a big game like this, maybe he’s just good at scum

I need to relook dann I guess, looks like the consensus is TRing him again

[innocentvillager]

no idea how DGB plays as scum, and nothing seemed massively out of scumrange I saw from her, why are you strong town on dgb?

[innocentvillager]

I'm not really sure how to bait this so I'm going to ask: did you see my post about how I feel about this game collectively?

if you’re asking me I don’t know which quote you’re referring to

[innocentvillager]

oh I did see that yeah it kinda makes sense

I didn’t get what nobody is failing that objective meant

My phone is dying and my charger is too far and I’m sleeping soon

how do you feel about xtoxm openly not caring then, are they just a special case

[innocentvillager]

i need to summarize whats going on in this game

big events:

*flashwagon on AGar
*AGar makes long wallpost which not many people read in full
*flashwagon on Titus
*Titus starts posting content
*Xtoxm says something weird about townreading Titus for townreading me
*flashwagon on Xtoxm
*Xtoxm does nothing
*YBR defends Xtoxm people accuse of it TMI
*flashwagon on YBR
*YBR posts about gamestate and some people split off
*Votes gradually go back to Xtoxm
*mastina comes in and starts defending Xtoxm and people get mad at her for a weird read and not reading the full game
*Lot of arguing and votes gradually split towards Ythan, Winter
*mini flashwagon back on AGar
*mini flashwagon back on Xtoxm

is this like kind of a correct interpretation of what's been happening

[innocentvillager]

ythan - he had one post that pinged me 728

"You are not authorized to read this topic"

This was probably approved by the rest of his team before-hand.

wait a second what the fuck

so this was written in a PT then previewed then copy-pasted over here right

[innocentvillager]

why is cephrir town again?

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Cephrir choo

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Xtoxm actually this vote is way better for the angleshooty reason

[innocentvillager]

nah i don't believe xtoxm asked team to proofread reads in the team PT when they supposedly don't care about this game, i think this can flip scum pretty often

i don't hate the idea that there could be 1-2 scum in {AGar, Cephrir} though

[innocentvillager]

i don't believe *town!xtoxm* asked team to proofread reads

[innocentvillager]

You can craft a post using a PT without posting it in the PT and after crafting it in the PT post it to the game thread.

imo this doesn't make sense because why would they draft the post in their team PT without posting it in the team PT (sorry idk Xtoxm pronouns they're not in the sig im gonna with "they" until otherwise specified)

You can make drafts for posts in a PT with no need for the team to preview;

imo this one is not impossible but still weird for the same reason. why would you draft a post in the team PT, post it, then immediately post it in the game thread if not to ask for the opinion of your team members? if i am town and don't care about a game, why would I effort and double write posts in a PT at all?

The PT slip is grasping at straws.

kind of but it's also a very important piece of information about their alignment? do you have any other hypotheses for why town!Xtoxm does this then?

pedit: mastina none of us would want to eliminate them if they were an IC. I know im missing some context here but i think you are shouting at a brick wall when you say "Xtoxm is definitely town but go ahead and eliminate them regardless!" because I guarantee you almost none of us are on this wagon thinking they're rand +town (excluding scum tmi)

[innocentvillager]

and there is only one person who is voting xtoxm who actually cares about the url

i feel attacked

[innocentvillager]

fine ill drop the PT thing

just curious xtoxm do you have a DC with your team? i ask because our team literally only uses DC for communication, not PT

[innocentvillager]

interesting that you wrote that particular post in the PT if you normally use DC, okay whatever

i was not expecting a PR claim from town!xtoxm, the amount of indifference to survivalism this whole game seems a bit out of place, idk

[innocentvillager]

I’m not surprised those are SS reads

I guess assuming AGar/Xtoxm is town which admittedly is a big assumption, worsty is very likely to be town

[innocentvillager]

the shitpushes on xtoxm were enough for SS to townread him even before his claim

wait is SS saying the claim in a vacuum is +town? I had the exact opposite impression

if anything, I would’ve considered a VT claim +town

[innocentvillager]

specifically because scum will almost always claim a PR at this point imo, that plus Xtoxm’s indifference to getting wagoned up and fakegammered made me feel like they were more likely to be VT or scum

[innocentvillager]

is that how we should play this from a theory perspective? (I genuinely don’t know)

this is similar to Nepenthes on D1 in 2160 no? tbf, I wasn’t really invested in the theory discussion that game for... obvious reasons LOL

[innocentvillager]

they never said they were TOWN tracker, so i could still believe it

[innocentvillager]

I'll give xtoxm one night.

i get what you're saying about 2180 but you also know from that game that giving openly claimed PRs one night to get results isn't exactly... that reliable (ie you were simply roleblocked)?

UNVOTE: Xtoxm ill do this for now though. not too many other places i love my vote

[innocentvillager]

worsty, my viewpoint is: a lot of players in this game are going to be stubborn/"dense" (myself included), and they're going to appear so even moreso to whoever they are pressuring. to think a player like ABR (who is known for tunneling and applying max pressure) is scum because he's being "too dense" doesn't seem quite accurate to me.

[innocentvillager]

random aside just to put this to rest

@A50 that is a reasonable defense

but i don't think what you are saying is quite accurate

just because the post number is in between those two post numbers both made on Dec 6, does not actually mean it was made on Dec 6.

It SHOULD in theory (assuming that is how it's coded, idk), and it makes SENSE that it should, but it doesn't necessarily.

why do i know this? go to any thread (even this one could work), and type in [ post ]73428[ /post ] or any number more than the number of posts in that thread then hit preview. you'll get a number that is way less than you'd expect, because it doesn't exist in that thread.

xtoxm himself admitted to writing the post in the team PT. all we know from what we've seen is that whatever PT xtoxm wrote this in, it has less than 729 posts.

[innocentvillager]

wait

i think it will go to the first post in the thread it was created it, if your post number exceeds it. for example, if i type [ post ] 343434343 [/post] in this thread, it links me to the implo gamestart post.

the Team PT could've been created on December 6, that is very plausible.

okay, so we know it was written in the TEAM PT AND NOT THE SCUM PT. ok lol.

[innocentvillager]

why are we still talking about the pt thing it literally has never mattered

it matters because we know it didn't come from the scum PT.

[innocentvillager]

specifically because scum will almost always claim a PR at this point imo, that plus Xtoxm’s indifference to getting wagoned up and fakegammered made me feel like they were more likely to be VT or scum

So you think SCUM don't care about being wagoned??

they do but imo it's different

as a TPR or scum you really don't want to die (more than VT), but:

as scum there are a variety of responses you can use to wifom out of it, one of which could be intentionally ignoring the thread/not caring

as a TPR, i wouldn't expect TPR to ever try and wifom out of the elim by like intentionally not posting and pretending to not care.

so my explanation here for tpr!xtoxm is that he genuinely just didn't care, which is plausible ig?

[innocentvillager]

i think i'd like to hear from people who believe cephrir is town to explain their TR, because when i look at that slot independently it is the slot I TL the least for the amount of content they have put out

Sorry to report that Xtoxm goes more quiet when he does roll a PR than when he does a VT. I guess he doesn't much like the burden of responsibility bestowed upon him. In other words, he acts more freely as a VT which makes him look townier than he does as a TPR.

ok thanks that's interesting to know. i think im potentially coming around on xtoxm town, willing to let them live for now at least.

[innocentvillager]

would wagon any of these today {AGar, Cephrir, Winter, Ythan, Titus, Dannflor}

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Cephrir

[innocentvillager]

hercule how is your team feeling about Uncrowned (e.g peta)

[innocentvillager]

why is ceph wagon not the way?

[innocentvillager]

why is ceph wagon not the way?

It's not the way because a) I think they are town. And b) we have much better leads. My next dive into the game is going to be scumcasing mastina but I want to see who vibes with it first before I share that.

If you want further reading, the bedrock of my townread on Cephrir was formed ~ 1/3 through D1 a la 1131. At that point, I felt strongly they were town. Their contributions have been a bit muted since but I think some of that was explained by mastina subbing into the game. They haven't done anything to change my read on them and I think they would be a bad flip considering they are >rand to flip town fmpov.

i read through it again quickly and i see arguments like "mindmelding" which made you +town on them? ik what you mean, it feels great to mindmeld with players but fmpov the things you mindmelded on weren't exactly like, very interesting observations or thoughts so it read kinda null to me at best

the overly early "eagerness" and early jump into scumhunting is, fair, but ive see scum do that many times, especially competent scum

idk, just my current viewpoint, open to being convinced on ceph town

Call to arms: who *opposes* a mastina flip

i sort of do but im open to hearing more. they just seem like stubborn town to me but ive never played with them before.