TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

Dannflor · Post Post #28 (isolation #1) » Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:30 pm

VOTE: the worst

Dannflor · Post Post #29 (isolation #2) » Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:30 pm

VOTE: ythan

Dannflor · Post Post #33 (isolation #3) » Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:32 pm

because the worst is voting there

Dannflor · Post Post #66 (isolation #4) » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:06 pm

hercule you mentioned that you were really excited to get this game started this morning, does your enthusiasm vary by alignment at all?

by extension is your activity generally similar (and I assume high) as both alignments?

Dannflor · Post Post #68 (isolation #5) » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:08 pm

In post 64, hercule wrote:ironically this pacing is probably way more healthy than what i’m used to but it’s so boring

I'd probably be way more hyper but I have a graduate school application due in 2 hours I'm procrastinating

Dannflor · Post Post #70 (isolation #6) » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:09 pm

In post 67, AGar wrote:
In post 28, Dannflor wrote:VOTE: the worst

In post 29, Dannflor wrote:VOTE: ythan
Sup wit dis?

changed my mind

decided I valued attempting to start a wagon more than voting ducky

Dannflor · Post Post #72 (isolation #7) » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:11 pm

I think also there are some players that get more active as the game goes on

but this early it's probably just that people haven't checked the site yet

Dannflor · Post Post #73 (isolation #8) » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:12 pm

In post 38, DrippingGoofball wrote:
In post 32, hercule wrote:
In post 29, Dannflor wrote:VOTE: ythan
why
VOTE: hercule

Already nervous.

why would my vote on ythan make hercule nervous here?

or is that not what you were implying

Dannflor · Post Post #84 (isolation #9) » Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:51 pm

In post 76, AGar wrote:
In post 70, Dannflor wrote:
In post 67, AGar wrote:
In post 28, Dannflor wrote:VOTE: the worst

In post 29, Dannflor wrote:VOTE: ythan
Sup wit dis?
changed my mind

decided I valued attempting to start a wagon more than voting ducky
In all of half a minute?

yep

Dannflor · Post Post #117 (isolation #10) » Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:37 pm

In post 97, the worst wrote:
In post 70, Dannflor wrote:
In post 67, AGar wrote:
In post 28, Dannflor wrote:VOTE: the worst

In post 29, Dannflor wrote:VOTE: ythan
Sup wit dis?
changed my mind

decided I valued attempting to start a wagon more than voting ducky
you changed your vote after 20 seconds lmao how much thought did you put into this

not much

it took 20 seconds

Dannflor · Post Post #121 (isolation #11) » Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:41 pm

the worst why are you town reading hercule?

Dannflor · Post Post #147 (isolation #12) » Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:59 pm

In post 140, the worst wrote:they're making towny noises and want people to townread them so I'm obliging! i'll work out if I'm wrong later. Where u at on them?

maybe town? idk I'm more in a wait-and-see kinda mode. I vaguely liked his real time interaction with me just because it felt easy for him and unforced. but he really seems like a player I need to watch develop over a longer period of time especially to see if he maintains the same level of excitement and activity that he claims is emblematic of his town game

I was a little curious about your initial town read just because hercule has no meta on this site and the "excited hyperposter" poster persona is not one I've come to see as more town than not, in fact I think a lot of scum players default to that style at least at the start of the game in order to cover their weaknesses -- this is kind of a similar thought to unwnd's read on innocent villager. Anyway, I was wondering why you were so quick on the read given hercule could be a very experienced player and it didn't seem you had any history with them

that's briefly what I thought when I voted you and then I was like... nah that's probably stupid and voted ythan

it wasn't that deep beyond me having a moment of hesitation reading your posts and then just deciding to shelve it for later instead

Dannflor · Post Post #148 (isolation #13) » Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:00 pm

I think hercule is an easy town read to make and I suppose could be town

but specifically I was stopped at your posts just because I know you as someone who tends to go below the surface level and then go a little deeper

granted page 1 but yknow

Dannflor · Post Post #149 (isolation #14) » Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:02 pm

VOTE: innocent villager

specifically weirded out by the "dannflor townish" comment considering the vacuum of any actual thoughts in my posts at that point

also there's the easy hercule town read that isn't actually all that confident and that squicks me more than the worst's did

Dannflor · Post Post #150 (isolation #15) » Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:04 pm

In post 81, Titus wrote:VOTE: Agar

If you think Dann's scummy, why aren't you voting him?

I was gonna wait for Agar to answer but I'm bored waiting

Agar didn't actually call me scum anywhere. Do you find his two questions to me scummy? and why

Dannflor · Post Post #313 (isolation #16) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:59 am

In post 249, innocentvillager wrote:
In post 243, unwnd wrote:IV

You still have nervous energy

The best way I would further describe what seems to be wrong with you is that you believe solving to be a catch-all towntell, but it's like

Page 10? What necessity is there to solve on page 10. Changing your mind or seeming like 'oh man, I'm just so worried about everything!' does not make you town

If you are town, stop forcing yourself to do things thanks
bro what are you even talking about lol

:/

Dannflor · Post Post #325 (isolation #17) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:27 am

In post 249, innocentvillager wrote:
In post 243, unwnd wrote:IV

You still have nervous energy

The best way I would further describe what seems to be wrong with you is that you believe solving to be a catch-all towntell, but it's like

Page 10? What necessity is there to solve on page 10. Changing your mind or seeming like 'oh man, I'm just so worried about everything!' does not make you town

If you are town, stop forcing yourself to do things thanks
bro what are you even talking about lol

This feels like a very awkward response to what I read as a very genuine towny reach out. Personally, that's not how I would react to something like unwnd's post and innocent villager's response here seems devoid of actually trying to understand unwnd or really dig deeper into the reasons people are sorting IV as scummy

I suppose there is something to be said for not taking the easy olive branch, but on the whole it feels more dismissive than anything else, which doesn't really feel like a town approach to the game in general but certainly not this sort of attempted engagement

Dannflor · Post Post #356 (isolation #18) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:14 am

In post 160, Hopkirk wrote:Hectic's reads (heavily reworded to avoid quoting)
-Likes Dann's end of p6 posting (agreed) and the thought process between the two votes
- finds 22 from herc odd where he says he doesn't want to make a mountain out of the issue, then continues extending that conversation (eh, i'd see that as nai or very very lightly town leading thinking about incentives)
-jacko's friendly entrance/reaching out to several players for harmless banter is a slightly scum indicative entrance (i skimmed over this post initially, finding myself agreeing a bit i think? the vibes don't seem on point)
-Agar's questioning on Dann felt fake/couldn't understand what response Agar expected other than 'yep'/not looking for underlying reasons (agree, not a massive fan of agar but he also didn't do anything to look townie in those two posts tbh. reviewing gave me a vibe of like not really thinking about how people would look at the posts? flagging to interact with)
-townpings from 80 from Ythan and was vibing with DGB's attacks earlier (nice)
-the worst's 89 felt forced. hectic thought xtoxm was just thinking out loud and wasn't voicing a townlean. Some other good posts from TW but fakeable from hectic's pov as a lot of mech related (not sure what hectic means about the mech part. 89 does feel kind of weirdly reactive i agree. i also don't like the shade on dann in 97 that i noticed while skimming to find 89 in the iso).

VOTE: Jacko

posts like these are enough to make me town lean Hopkirk

especially having his teammates input with developed thoughts so early in the game speaks good things towards his alignment

Dannflor · Post Post #358 (isolation #19) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:16 am

I would more put slots like ythan or A50 in the "avoiding the game in favor of fluff" category

Dannflor · Post Post #364 (isolation #20) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:20 am

In post 360, DrippingGoofball wrote:
In post 356, Dannflor wrote:especially having his teammates input with developed thoughts so early in the game speaks good things towards his alignment
Meh. The team mates weighing in is hardly AI. If anything, there's more strategy and cunning involved in playing scum, I know I'd want to run things by my team mates. When you roll town you're in the dark, as are your team mates.

It's more that Hectic *volunteered* some fairly substantial thoughts so early in the game, showing that he's keeping up with the game in almost real time. Certainly I'd expect good team mates to keep up regardless of alignment, it's more just the fact that it was unprompted spew that I liked

Dannflor · Post Post #370 (isolation #21) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:31 am

In post 365, DrippingGoofball wrote:I am outnumbered. I guess I'm just going to have to take things in my own hands and vig him.

I'm not really attempting to talk you down

Did you get the same sense of avoiding the actual game while in thread from anyone else while you were reading through?

Dannflor · Post Post #384 (isolation #22) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:51 am

In post 275, innocentvillager wrote:Ftr, I am kind of feeling you as town now (yes, I am going to say it here instead of “head/PT”)

IV what was this primarily in reaction to?

Meaning what exactly from unwnd got you to this point?

Dannflor · Post Post #386 (isolation #23) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:53 am

I'm just gonna let the people who know ABR try to read him unless he does something that seems comprehensible to me

Dannflor · Post Post #396 (isolation #24) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:32 am

this just in from Jingle: A50 and ythan are both gut town reads although not particularly strong

doesn't think Winter is particularly towny despite having posted a lot and made some solid arguments

Dannflor · Post Post #401 (isolation #25) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:52 am

In post 378, innocentvillager wrote:why are you analyzing this reaction in isolation without at all commenting on the followup conversation we had? what did you think of that?

oh I forgot to respond to this

I think the main issue I'm having even with your later response to unwnd is that I'm not really tracking your thought process at all. It seems far too influenced by other players or worse just seems to randomly change without much transparency into why your thoughts are changing. I have no issue with sudden changes of mind but I think I'm losing some of the process behind these read changes.

As far as your interaction with unwnd, I like how you came around to understanding him I was just shocked by your initial reaction that seemed more interested in shooting him down than actually understanding. I might've read too much into that one post in particular but it's what caught my eye right away this morning.

Mostly I'm interested in how your read on unwnd evolved from that and how exactly

Dannflor · Post Post #402 (isolation #26) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:53 am

Winter Flakes and Hopkirk had a bunch of interaction a few pages ago that I thought was vaguely towny from both of them when I was first skimming it. Reading it back though I'm less impressed with Winter Flakes just because of the amount of spent on meta and past games that seems more like busy work than anything else. I still maintain my town read on Hopkirk though

Dannflor · Post Post #407 (isolation #27) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:03 am

I don't know DGB so I can't really tell if the uber serious stuff is a personality quirk or not

gut reaction I don't like it but part of that is also just because I disagree with its reads

Dannflor · Post Post #410 (isolation #28) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:05 am

I noticed hercule also was saying stuff like he "flipped town," which isn't how I'd normally use that terminology

so I kinda wonder if that's a difference in like site culture or something

otherwise I'd love to know the full POE

Dannflor · Post Post #418 (isolation #29) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:22 am

ythan what are your strongest feels at the moment about the game or specific players

Dannflor · Post Post #434 (isolation #30) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:44 am

did someone say radiantcowbells

Dannflor · Post Post #437 (isolation #31) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:46 am

In post 428, Ythan wrote:
In post 418, Dannflor wrote:ythan what are your strongest feels at the moment about the game or specific players
I haven't really looked at any isos or anything yet which is sorta necessary for me in a large (and this is my first large I think unless sunny was large since my long hiatus) and the only big pings I've gotten off individual posts are some Hercules things but it remains to be seen if I'm tunneling and I got a bad vibe from Wurst for support of Herc I couldn't really fathom.

when you get a chance you might look at the innocent villager iso?

was there something specific in worst's reasoning for tring herc you disliked?

Dannflor · Post Post #491 (isolation #32) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:28 pm

IV when you get the chance I'm interested in your read on the worst

Dannflor · Post Post #513 (isolation #33) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:24 pm

VOTE: agar

Dannflor · Post Post #516 (isolation #34) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:40 pm

very insightful post about wagon speed and empty votes

Dannflor · Post Post #551 (isolation #35) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:01 pm

how am I performing

Dannflor · Post Post #554 (isolation #36) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:03 pm

well

no

Dannflor · Post Post #557 (isolation #37) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:04 pm

You said this whole phase

Dannflor · Post Post #565 (isolation #38) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:09 pm

In post 558, the worst wrote:
In post 554, Dannflor wrote:well

no
sorry you're wrong :shrug:

I've only read like the first 5? pages and the last page but from what I've seen you have been performative

Oh okay

But no

Dannflor · Post Post #572 (isolation #39) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:14 pm

In post 566, the worst wrote:
In post 565, Dannflor wrote:
In post 558, the worst wrote:
In post 554, Dannflor wrote:well

no
sorry you're wrong :shrug:

I've only read like the first 5? pages and the last page but from what I've seen you have been performative
Oh okay

But no
why are you even taking exception to this? a 20 second vote change looks performative from the outside. what did you make of AGar picking up on it then?

Oh I’m just being ornery now

I thought it was fine if a bit of a useless line of questioning at the time

Dannflor · Post Post #573 (isolation #40) » Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:16 pm

Like I don’t think that’s something town is exceptionally more likely to pick at than scum

Dannflor · Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:07 pm

In post 924, JacksonVirgo wrote:Fwiw one of my bois thinks that Hercule had been slimy as well.

:/

Dannflor · Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:10 pm

In post 967, the worst wrote:
In post 964, OkaPoka wrote:
In post 961, the worst wrote:I'd contest that isn't a read but I kinda agree a lot of the more vocal disagreements don't feel particularly manipulative (agar/Titus feels like it has the strongest chance of red atm)

how about like actual player reads? townreads can be hot too
idk if i have any hottake reads because i suspect most the playerlist might have at most 5 ish reads that aren't outside the bounds of null and there is nowhere near enough consensus

maybe something random like ceph could be scum
so I'm back & forth on ceph but someone in my team super heavily townreads him. he's also posting a tonne better than he did in a marathon game I was in with him when he was scum - but I also have a fair bit of respect for his like gamestate comprehension & ability to post confidently so I'm biting my tongue a bit there.

who are the 5 outside null reads as you see them? who should we be reconsidering or bumping up/down outside of there?

hi can you expand on your back & forth on Ceph and/or your team mate's uber town read on him?

My personal feeling that's been shared by Jingle is that Ceph has posted enough content where I feel like I should have a decent handle on his alignment by now but I 'm really just coming up with a big cloud of nothing and I can't figure out if that's just a fault with my reading skills or it says something about Ceph's alignment

Dannflor · Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:12 pm

Is it just me or is Agar being performative this game

Dannflor · Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:39 pm

In post 1048, Titus wrote:I would be voting the worst.

can you elaborate on where this read comes from?

or is it all in the mystical Titus VCA

Dannflor · Post Post #1528 (isolation #45) » Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:36 pm

In post 1209, Xtoxm wrote:@Dann
could i have a summary of your reads on duun, titus, agar, hopkirk, tw, and myself

I'll get to this in a little while but I'm curious why you're asking me specifically?

Dannflor · Post Post #1529 (isolation #46) » Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:37 pm

In post 1217, Xtoxm wrote:scum a typically reluctant to hard tr a slot thats going for them
auro also feels titus recent content is towny

In post 1219, Xtoxm wrote:yeah
but she stuck to it and strengthened with the new information

In post 1221, Xtoxm wrote:i think it would have been really easy to just not make a comment there, or leave it at 'i havent got there yet'

:/

Dannflor · Post Post #1538 (isolation #47) » Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:56 pm

yes I've heard Cephrir loves meta cases

Dannflor · Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:03 pm

hey the worst, what would you consider to be your spiciest take about this game

Dannflor · Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:08 pm

I don't really know I guess

I'm trying to put together some semblance of a whole reads list and I got to your slot and I just realized I don't really remember much about your posting despite you having posted a decent amount. Looking back over I just feel like you've been very... agreeable this game? Or when you do have a unique idea or push you haven't put a lot of energy into pushing that take very hard.

Dannflor · Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:12 pm

I realize that still doesn't clarify

I guess I'm just asking what you feel strongest about in this game right now

scum reads / town reads / whatever

Like for instance I know you've put pressure on both Titus and JV recently but I don't really know if you have any strong scum reads at the moment

which if you don't that's fine I'm not gonna scum read you for not having a hot and spicy burning take I'd just like to not miss it if you have anything in the game you feel really strongly about

Dannflor · Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:23 pm

like I remember you pushing JV and like calling them scum to their face, but I don't really remember you trying to get others to join your cause?

I was looking for something a little more than the reads list and more like... what is something you really want other people to get on board with

The closest I've seen is your reaction to the Agar wagon but even then it felt like a weak defense.

In post 1552, the worst wrote:honestly I feel like I've been a fair bit less agreeable than normal? what have you the impression I was too agreeable in this game

Okay, I mean it's also possible this impression I'm getting is a consequence of my own distance from the game. and maybe agreeable was the wrong word. sorry, maybe you're right about this being a one sided dialogue. I'll go back to reading you solo and I'll figure out where I come out and we can engage on that

Dannflor · Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:24 pm

In post 1557, Dannflor wrote:weak defense.

and by this I don't mean weak argument just like there wasn't as much time dedicated to it as I would've expected from you about something you feel strongly about

but if the simple answer to this is just like you're busy then I'll drop it

Dannflor · Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:26 pm

In post 1555, the worst wrote:I feel like this plist is kind of agreeable in general (ABR pops up once every few pages and says nothing and points in a direction and people aren't alarmed at that. lol) - forming townblocks is unlikely to end well.

yeah and I'm certainly not one to point fingers here

I just have a vision of your scum game being sickly sweet and agreeable and your town game being still nice and agreeable but not afraid to make big ducky splashes. but probably asking you to make big ducky splashes for me right now is not the way to approach this so... i digress

Dannflor · Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:35 pm

okay thanks

Dannflor · Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:38 pm

In post 1562, the worst wrote:
In post 1557, Dannflor wrote:The closest I've seen is your reaction to the Agar wagon but even then it felt like a weak defense.
why would I throw my weight against a wagon right at the start of D1 when I didn't have anyone I wanted cw'd? that's a patently terrible use of time

I mean that's kind of what I was trying to get at

You thought Agar was making towny noises and JV was making scummy noises at the time

was there a reason you didn't want JV counter wagoned? or was it just a much less strong read than I thought it was

Dannflor · Post Post #1604 (isolation #56) » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:40 am

In post 1574, Winter Flakes wrote:
In post 1419, the worst wrote:Yeah, Hopkirk is scum a fair while before unwnd.
big disagree

I also think Hopkirk is firmly town and the town reads on unwnd are largely undeserved

Dannflor · Post Post #1606 (isolation #57) » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:44 am

In post 1596, Albert B. Rampage wrote:My main scumhunting comes from looking at how players react to pressure and after AGar I feel like scum have been controlling the game state and keeping us from consolidating. My POE is large. Who wants my vote?

In post 1597, unwnd wrote:If people were wondering why I was townreading ABR it is the post above as I am completely in agreement lol

this statement by ABR doesn't read as real or it's just underdeveloped

I don't really know what either of you mean when you say it.

I don't feel that consolidation is something we're having trouble with? It feels like there's quite a few consensus reads with scum!xtoxm being the most recent one. Having a large POE is consequent of being in a large game on D1, imo.

feeling that "scum have been controlling the game state" requires more explanation in why you feel that way and who scum is because like, I don't get anything from that observation other than emptiness as it is. if one of you could further elaborate on what that means that'd be great

Dannflor · Post Post #1614 (isolation #58) » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:52 am

In post 1567, the worst wrote:my read has dipped because he clearly wants to be read a certain way (apply Ola's "dgb fakes reads" logic to like, every second thing agar posts) and that makes me feel like just defaulting to townleaning him off early tonal stuff is dangerous

I wasn't completely joking when I said he felt performative

I'd be interested in the lilith case but I understand if you don't feel that's the most productive use of your time

Dannflor · Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:56 am

In post 1662, Titus wrote:I have stopped reading H v U.

nice

Dannflor · Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:07 pm

In post 1666, innocentvillager wrote:hot take Hopkirk v unwnd is SvS

also nice

Dannflor · Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:10 pm

In post 1661, Hopkirk wrote:7pm-12pm+ on tuesday/thursday - playing mafia/social deception games/other games with friends

plays mafia for 17 hours but cant be here for all of them?

eliminate all liars

Dannflor · Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:16 pm

I have a post to post before the day ends

also don't particularly feel like we've stalled out or anything

Dannflor · Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:17 pm

how do you know he's in the navy

Dannflor · Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:20 pm

abr, why is xtoxm scum

and for brownie points why is he a better flip than any other flip

Dannflor · Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:20 pm

In post 1688, the worst wrote:@unwnd i made a visual guide for you:
what is hopkirk doing now?

i had to make some assumptions but i sincerely hope this clears up any confusion about hopkirk's availability so that you can resume sorting him for AI things

this is how ellibereth played mafia

Dannflor · Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:29 pm

In post 1696, the worst wrote:
In post 1693, Dannflor wrote:
In post 1688, the worst wrote:@unwnd i made a visual guide for you:
what is hopkirk doing now?

i had to make some assumptions but i sincerely hope this clears up any confusion about hopkirk's availability so that you can resume sorting him for AI things
this is how ellibereth played mafia
i know i'm a bit late with this compliment but your last like, 10 posts have been fantastic

I think it's the painkillers speaking

jingle wanted to ask you to out your scum team for us btw, he'll buy you two loaves of bread and he'll even spring for the "fancy ass shit"

I don't think he actually scum reads you but if you are scum what do you say?

Dannflor · Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:30 pm

In post 1698, Hopkirk wrote:video mafia with friends. used to be in person pre covid. not mafiascum or forum mafia so this point doesn't really stand. i think i've addressed it reasonably well

you have addressed your schedule commendably

I was just worried about the disease of substituting sleep for mafia that befalls so many of us keybaord warriors

Dannflor · Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:31 pm

In post 1708, Dannflor wrote:I was just worried about the disease of substituting sleep for mafia that befalls so many of us keybaord warriors

wait I reversed this unintentionally

Dannflor · Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:40 pm

In post 1712, the worst wrote:how am i meant to decide between eliminating xtoxm, eliminating abr, and policying hercule
this game is impossible

this is how a noble man becomes shellyc

Dannflor · Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:41 pm

In post 1715, Cephrir wrote:very here for shitposter dannflor, keep up the good work

Spoiler:

Dannflor · Post Post #1859 (isolation #71) » Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:22 pm

In post 1851, OkaPoka wrote:I dont understand your thought process unwnd

at least, I'm unclear what's stopping you from elaborating on a dunn read

unless it's just that you don't have one beyond one related to this game state read you have

Dannflor · Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:43 am

wait please dont hammer right right now

Dannflor · Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:43 am

i have a post in preview im almost done i swear

Dannflor · Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:45 am

okay I'm wrapping it up

Dannflor · Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:54 am

Spoiler:

Dannflor · Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:56 am

okay we can revote now, or we can talk about stuff

I just didn't want to like have started organizing that and die over night or something

Dannflor · Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:00 pm

I'd like to talk to you about that weirdness at some point but it doesn't seem like you currently want to attempt that

Dannflor · Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:00 pm

intent to hammer

Dannflor · Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:17 pm

In post 1695, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 1691, Dannflor wrote:abr, why is xtoxm scum

and for brownie points why is he a better flip than any other flip
As far as I'm concerned he's done little and less to help the town. Spending most of the day not voting is innacptable, and his iso is sparse and underwhelming. Not a slot I'd be sorry to see go.

In post 1724, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 1712, the worst wrote:how am i meant to decide between eliminating xtoxm, eliminating abr, and policying hercule
this game is impossible
It's easy, one is at L-2 and the other two aren't.

Dannflor · Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:17 pm

Dannflor · Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:23 pm

I'd kill ABR but I think there are a lot of random town reads on him

technically we still have 8 days

but there is danger of wheel spinning

Dannflor · Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:27 pm

im vibing

Dannflor · Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:37 pm

VOTE: abr

Dannflor · Post Post #2072 (isolation #84) » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:38 pm

the worst spamming is helpful to the game state

Dannflor · Post Post #2077 (isolation #85) » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:44 pm

That’s exactly how I approach wagons on me as scum and I don’t think it’s that uncommon for less emotional players?

Dannflor · Post Post #2084 (isolation #86) » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:48 pm

In post 2080, unwnd wrote:Yeah, but do you do that while trying to do at least..something?

I mean I viewed his weird post reaching out to me and a couple other posts he made as lame attempts to do just that

Dannflor · Post Post #2085 (isolation #87) » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:49 pm

Lol you’re literally just pocketing mastina because she’s loud and will defend you

Dannflor · Post Post #2105 (isolation #88) » Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:04 pm

In post 2090, Dunnstral wrote:I didn't like his response to me vs unwnd, actually, it felt like he was too far on the sidelines. I don't know his activity at the time which is why I'm not pushing this harder, but him trying to figure things out felt empty

to be fair, he doesn't strike me as the type of person who would *want* to get in the middle of a 1v1 no matter how untoxic

Dannflor · Post Post #2113 (isolation #89) » Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:14 pm

In post 2111, mastina wrote:In what world is me being loud and in defense of him enough to seriously dissuade a wagon on him? There's no world where that works; when I am loud but wildly off base, people just ignore me and go on to correctly eliminate the scum that I was loudly wrong on.

my point was less that he's doing this as a grand strategy to save his skin and more just that it's incredibly disingenuous and doesn't reflect a good-faith town mindset regardless of his alignment

Dannflor · Post Post #2114 (isolation #90) » Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:14 pm

xtoxm not doing much about his wagon isn't a town case

Dannflor · Post Post #2121 (isolation #91) » Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:20 pm

In post 2117, mastina wrote:The closest to a case on Xtoxm is "he's not doing much, especially when under pressure", which a simple meta check on Xtoxm will show...is not alignment indicative, because that's par for the course on Xtoxm.

that's actually not the reasons people are voting for xtoxm

you brought this up as a town case

people are merely arguing that him not doing anything now isn't a town case

Dannflor · Post Post #2131 (isolation #92) » Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:24 pm

In post 1678, Albert B. Rampage wrote:I lose interest when people start using words like deepwolf, LHF and LAMIST. Anyways can we flip Xtoxm?

In post 1695, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 1691, Dannflor wrote:abr, why is xtoxm scum

and for brownie points why is he a better flip than any other flip
As far as I'm concerned he's done little and less to help the town. Spending most of the day not voting is innacptable, and his iso is sparse and underwhelming. Not a slot I'd be sorry to see go.

sit down

Dannflor · Post Post #2135 (isolation #93) » Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:26 pm

In post 2021, hercule wrote:I would say that xtoxm is Objectively Scummy. I suppose the flip here is predicated on ABR having TMI'd xtoxm as town? I think it's a bit of a stretch but possible

nah it's scummy regardless of X's alignment

Dannflor · Post Post #2143 (isolation #94) » Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:30 pm

who is expressing such certainty that xtoxm is scum

I feel like this sudden concern about a phantom group of people that are deadset on xtoxm obv scum is made up

he's scummy but like ??? it's day 1 in a large if either of you flipped town I would be frustrated but not surprised

Dannflor · Post Post #2147 (isolation #95) » Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:32 pm

In post 2146, innocentvillager wrote:
In post 2143, Dannflor wrote:I feel like this sudden concern about a phantom group of people that are deadset on xtoxm obv scum is made up
tbh i feel similarly to abr so even if it's wrong it might not be made up

I mean I'm talking about unwnd feeling this way too

I don't know where this sentiment came from, I didn't mean it was made up because scum

Dannflor · Post Post #2229 (isolation #96) » Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:00 pm

No I’m not gonna spend my readslist talking about xtoxm because he’s a very boring slot and the reasons to vote him are self evident,

Yes I will spend time talking about every other slot because those are the slots where spending time sorting will actually be productive

Dannflor · Post Post #2234 (isolation #97) » Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:01 pm

In post 2226, Winter Flakes wrote:
In post 2223, the worst wrote:I think we need to nolife at the same time some night because I don't think we're reading the same game
I've probably read it less than you but I really don't see a world where Scum!ABR would care to make that post about Xtoxm, and the fact he's being wagoned for it is both ridiculous and a bad look on everyone who has voted it, imo.

It’s not about someone thinking the leading wagon could be town. This is so disingenuous.

It’s about ABR coming out of the blue with this after hard pushing for flipping xtoxm throughout the day

Dannflor · Post Post #2245 (isolation #98) » Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:09 pm

In post 2241, Winter Flakes wrote:
In post 2229, Dannflor wrote:No I’m not gonna spend my readslist talking about xtoxm because he’s a very boring slot and the reasons to vote him are self evident,

Yes I will spend time talking about every other slot because those are the slots where spending time sorting will actually be productive
Nuh uh. You said something along the lines of "we're killing Xtoxm which I'm happy with"

the fact you don't even put a sentence on the slot other than that when you can drop paragraphs on others just doesn't sit right

i put a few sentences about that slot but go off i guess

Dannflor · Post Post #2246 (isolation #99) » Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:10 pm

In post 2235, unwnd wrote:
In post 2170, unwnd wrote:
In post 2143, Dannflor wrote:who is expressing such certainty that xtoxm is scum

I feel like this sudden concern about a phantom group of people that are deadset on xtoxm obv scum is made up

he's scummy but like ??? it's day 1 in a large if either of you flipped town I would be frustrated but not surprised
My statement was a bit exaggerated for effect, I lead with this in sort of a reactive sense

I do think though that if you're voting someone, you think they're scum

And that was like 8 people lol
Dann?

I mean yes people were voting for him because people think he's scum

that's a different situation than saying everyone is convinced he must flip scum and thus there's something deeply wrong going on

idk the reactive bit has thrown me off because people are acting like it's a big deal that people find xtoxm scummy

Dannflor · Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:11 pm

In post 2244, Winter Flakes wrote:
In post 2237, Cephrir wrote:but... the whole point was that he did seem to want it...
...did he?

I recall him wanting Xtoxm gone at one point but I thought he'd switched over to a couple other people? And I thought I read a post where he was actively complaining about putting his vote on Xtoxm and that he didn't want anyone to complain when it flipped town? This is prior to him making the post where he said "I've seen wagons like this flip town" or whatever it was

unless I really have just been reading a different game

this is an easy thing to check!

In post 1617, Albert B. Rampage wrote:VOTE: xtoxm

In post 1678, Albert B. Rampage wrote:I lose interest when people start using words like deepwolf, LHF and LAMIST. Anyways can we flip Xtoxm?

In post 1695, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 1691, Dannflor wrote:abr, why is xtoxm scum

and for brownie points why is he a better flip than any other flip
As far as I'm concerned he's done little and less to help the town. Spending most of the day not voting is innacptable, and his iso is sparse and underwhelming. Not a slot I'd be sorry to see go.

In post 1724, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 1712, the worst wrote:how am i meant to decide between eliminating xtoxm, eliminating abr, and policying hercule
this game is impossible
It's easy, one is at L-2 and the other two aren't.

Dannflor · Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:29 pm

VOTE: xtoxm

Dannflor · Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:50 pm

In post 515, Cephrir wrote:i just want to preempt whatever clever genius swoops in here to make a very insightful post about wagon speed and empty votes and tell them to eat my ass

Dannflor · Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:56 pm

Ehhh

I need to reread the last few pages where they popped in without the obscuring force of extreme annoyance

I was very close to asking for a vibe check on that slot but realized that was probably just the OMGUS in me talking

Dannflor · Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:03 pm

In post 2316, OkaPoka wrote:man i wish team mafia had dance - imagine how nuts that game would be

Probably too town sided but it would be a blast

Dannflor · Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:06 pm

In post 2320, Winter Flakes wrote:
In post 2310, OkaPoka wrote:how does everyone feel on winter flake btw? i want to kill that slot a lot too
"hey guys i'm not sure how this slot is perceived and i dont wanna push him myself buuuuuut if i can get support and not get solely blamed for when he flips green, i'd really appreciate it."

ok BUDDY

This is a weird way to interact with people

Dannflor · Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:07 pm

I don’t think oka is worried about any of those things

Dannflor · Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:12 pm

In post 2329, Winter Flakes wrote:
In post 2326, Cephrir wrote:
In post 2320, Winter Flakes wrote:
In post 2310, OkaPoka wrote:how does everyone feel on winter flake btw? i want to kill that slot a lot too
"hey guys i'm not sure how this slot is perceived and i dont wanna push him myself buuuuuut if i can get support and not get solely blamed for when he flips green, i'd really appreciate it."

ok BUDDY
are you scumreading okapoka now too?

the omgus quotient is getting a bit high here my man
nah i don't SR oka tbh i haven't read enough from them to have a legit opinion

this is just how i shade people who won't square up

...how

He’s literally *the* top poster

Dannflor · Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:08 pm

I've heard it's more fun to form opinions off 10% of the game and then ardently defend them

Dannflor · Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:08 pm

that was snarkier than I meant it to be

if you come across anything catching up that you just want to skim or skip then ask and I'm sure Oka or I or someone else can help parse it for you

there'll probably be a couple 1v1s like that

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:43 am

In post 2376, Albert B. Rampage wrote:100 pages and we are just going to lynch a lurker, we could have done this a week and 80 pages ago. Xtoxm is lynchbait. I don't understand why you guys think you're good, you just write words and push submit then pat yourselves on the back. There's no scumhunting.

you know what you're right.

who should we eliminate instead?

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:16 am

not one but two people took that dead serious

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:46 am

you've also actively campaigned for at least one of these wagons rather than literally anything else

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:51 am

In post 2409, OkaPoka wrote:You have still yet to explain why someone else is scum and should be voted.

no it's impossible to do that unless we all do the work and vote them first

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:17 am

let's say we run up ythan

or winter flakes or literally anyone else that is ABR approved

what's to stop them doing the exact same thing xtoxm is doing now and oh well I guess they must be town time to go wagon everyone else for 8 days

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:57 am

why is the worst being randomly thrown into people's scum lists

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:12 am

I want to talk to xtoxm but alas

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:09 am

yknow

I actually think I town read Uncrowned now

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:38 pm

In post 2552, Winter Flakes wrote:
In post 2550, Dannflor wrote:yknow

I actually think I town read Uncrowned now
I mean it's obvious by the way all these slots have tip toed around me for so long. hopkirk himself basically gave it away. all these lowkey fence sitters can't all be town.

well it's actually not anything to do with game state or how other people are reading you

more just rereading your actual posts with a little more clarity

I'll expand when I get a computer if you like

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:40 pm

In post 2560, Xtoxm wrote:
In post 2544, Dannflor wrote:I want to talk to xtoxm but alas
alas

Spoiler:
In post 1975, Dannflor wrote:
intent to hammer

In post 2544, Dannflor wrote:I want to talk to xtoxm but alas
do you really tho

I've asked you things multiple times and you popped into thread and ignored me

you don't seem to actually want to engage with me, but I will ask again

In post 1209, Xtoxm wrote:@Dann
could i have a summary of your reads on duun, titus, agar, hopkirk, tw, and myself

what was this post about and why were you looking for my reads specifically

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:41 pm

like intent to hammer came after it seemed you were determined to not play the game

you'll find a lot of people actually want to talk to you if you do start playing the game

but you're not and there's no real effective way to play around that besides just getting rid of your slot

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:47 pm

I think to assume that all these wagons are built with the intent that they will end the day (IV/Agar/Titus are particular question marks) is a fallacy.

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:48 pm

In post 2573, Xtoxm wrote:i cant find the exchange in our disc but auro said you felt understated or something compared to wf/whats hes used to and suggested i prod you a bit

okay I wondered if it was someone on your team directing you, why did you pick out those names in particular to question me on?

I've also posted reads since then and wondered if you or any of your team mates have had time to catch up and form impressions off those

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:01 pm

In post 2585, Xtoxm wrote:its been a while since there were comments on my game. i'll @ him. maybe we'll talk abt it 2mo.

people been busy?

I'm surprised there are no comments or investment when you've been run up to near elimination a couple times

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:56 pm

my reads on winter flakes and cephrir are slowly exchanging places I think

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:59 pm

I'm just reevaluating both in light of recent events

event A being winter flakes popping in and calling me scum, which I actually like in retrospect but probably for weird reasons that will be hard to explain to other people

event B being dunnstral and someone else pointing out doubts they had about my cephrir read

I wish they were stronger reads but yeah it's so hard to wagon a player that's doing even surface level towny things when slots like abr are basically just saying vote me

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:02 pm

In post 2571, Almost50 wrote:I had a quick look at the major wagons at or around their peak. Jere are some interesting thoughts:

Oka Poka was on each and every single one of them. He voted IV, AGar, Titus, Xtoxm, ABR, back to Xtoxm (Xtoxm had dissipated in favour of ABR and them got rebuilt) and then he hopped on Winter Flakes.

I'm having difficulty seeing Oka SRing all top wagons at the time of then being the hot topic, so I am relegating Oka down to just below null

Also Cephrir has been on all but Titus' wagon, but he also joined Winter Flakes; wagon upon the rebuilding of Xtoxm's. I honestly dunno what to make of that but I already have Cephrir below my null line anyway

tw, Dann & Titus appear on 3 of the 6 wagons, and -again- I am not jumping to conclusions there yet.

So, the main issue is Oka Poka being on 6 different people at the time of their relative wagons being at their peak. Is Oka just scum or does he believe ANY random elimination on D1 is a good elimination?

@Oka: can you address this issue, please?

This type of 'analysis' seems like severe information instead of analysis. It seems very surface level and completely ignores any context behind Oka's votes so I half wanted to call it scummy busy work but I dunno

Is this the way A50 approaches the game frequently?

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:04 pm

In post 2665, unwnd wrote:My Ceph read isn't developed but I'm not willing to change it because at pure tone I think him being pissy and calling out people who have less than positive opinions of him

Is more townie, I think Ceph really just wanted to have fun and now he's not having fun at all lol

yeahhhh

I'm just uneasy giving him a tone town read because I feel he's someone who would have a similar tone as both alignments. Although, I haven't actually verified this myself at all and have never played with scum!Cephrir so idk where that feeling comes from exactly

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:06 pm

abr and xtoxm explicitly do not care yet also seem incredulous that people want to vote them

idk that xtoxm is incredulous #2560 was a weird post to make

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:17 pm

In post 2676, Cephrir wrote:
In post 2663, mastina wrote:Cephrir is getting away with hardcore lurking
...

blue is not lurkers

yellow is lurks

actually it's just divided into who has more than 100 posts and who doesn't, some of the blue have lurked for periods of time like ABR

but I look at this every so often just to check and see if *all* of my scum reads are in the yellow. Because that's when I get the sense of uneasiness that unwnd (i think) gets because no I don't really think xtoxm/agar/titus/a50/ythan has all the scum in it or whatever

it probably has a couple but not all and I do feel weird that my top two scum reads are basically just the bottom two posters in the game

I'm definitely town reading people I shouldn't be. Maybe that's cephrir or maybe that's hopkirk. There's only two things I feel certain about: I'm not gonna figure it out Day 1 and it's not fucking oka poka

I don't know what happened to this post or why I made it. I should revisit hercule probably looking at this list. I feel like maybe he and unwnd will start switching places.

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:21 pm

I feel we should just stick with eliminating xtoxm

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:23 pm

vibe check on implosion?

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:24 pm

In post 2685, unwnd wrote:I mean I just wanna say that my goal changed from 'liming scum' to 'maintain town morale'

Is it a bit backwards? Yeah, but I just don't think scum dies this phase, even in some possibility that scum has been wagoned before. I again also maintain that it was very annoying some people would say 'but unwnd what does it all mean' it means I want to talk about it and that perspective brings more enlightenment.

you are making more sense to me now I must say

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:29 pm

In post 2694, Almost50 wrote:I object to eliminating Xtoxm. I also object to eliminating ABR.

In fact, I still object to eliminating outside of DGB/tw/Cephrir today

this isn't a real thing you're going to get unless you start convincing a lot of people

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:29 pm

imagine a world where we quick elimmed agar

I would still elim him for the record

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:36 pm

In post 2701, Cephrir wrote:
In post 2699, Dannflor wrote:imagine a world where we quick elimmed agar

I would still elim him for the record
we should've

can we get a vibe check

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:45 pm

what does the grey circle stand for

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:23 pm

baton pass was fun because there was the elimlo where we almost town blocked by our severe desire to get out of the game

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:24 pm

people are gonna whine if someone doesn't case agar

maybe I should do that

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:32 pm

In post 2753, OkaPoka wrote:dann vs abr is not interesting

Spoiler:

this was quality wdym

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:33 pm

VOTE: agar

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:33 pm

ok cephrir I'm sorry I paranoia'd you i feel bad now

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:36 pm

it's okay we'll get to el-2 and a shit storm will reoccur

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:38 pm

In post 2766, Cephrir wrote:fr tho you guys can see im not s/s with this slot right

someone is going to use this post to scum case you in like elimlo and I hope I'm not alive for it

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:38 pm

In post 2787, Almost50 wrote:ABR is on it. You are OK with it. mastina & Titus has them in their SRs.

feels like a list of reasons not to vote something im sorry

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:39 pm

In post 2783, innocentvillager wrote:current favorite wagon

Xtoxm

My would-wagons today are

Agar Cepheus winter dannflor titus (?)

Wouldn’t oppose but probably wouldn’t join are

Ythan DGB dunnstral mastina

Would oppose

A50, the worst, Hopkins, Hercules, okapoka, unwnd, YBR

is very roughly where I’m at

we're currently kinda split between ABR/xtoxm/agar

my current preference is agar > xtoxm > abr

it pains me to say but I think abr is just likelier to flip town than the other two

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:42 pm

no I'm starting to see A50 town

I'm just wary because I think he has a reputation already for being a bit off the wall so I can't just town read him for approaching the game in an unusual way

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:14 pm

can you elaborate on the worst scum read?

it's a fairly popular read but I'm not really getting any concrete reasons why from anyone beyond the fact that people don't think he's reached a certain level of towniness or something

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:17 pm

that was @agar if it wasn't clear

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:20 pm

VOTE: xtoxm

Dannflor · Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:53 pm

This happened last team mafia in white flag

We swung the end of day wagon in like 8 different directions before we finally just said fuck it and eliminated the lurking slot which refused to play the game

It flipped scum

Dannflor · Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:06 am

In post 2839, Xtoxm wrote:i could vote here. auro is telling me he's town, and i trust his read more than my own.

why would you vote there if you trust auro's read more?

Dannflor · Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:00 am

I still think we should eliminate xtoxm

Dannflor · Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:09 am

Dannflor · Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:14 am

I think it was a typo but I read that in an Italian accent

Dannflor · Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:18 pm

I have slots I want to reconsider and reads to push

I’m also under no illusion that the proposed oka town core is air tight, I have my own suspicions there

But I want to kill xtoxm before any of that

Dannflor · Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:24 pm

let’s kill xtoxm please

Dannflor · Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:37 pm

It’s not laziness mastina

It’s actually the right thing to do today

Dannflor · Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:39 pm

Look, here's the deal, I'm not being delusional. I've read your case for xtoxm. I've read your meta on xtoxm. There is not a reason to town read xtoxm.

I can understand not scum reading xtoxm. I can understand thinking that xtoxm is just a lurker who hasn't really done anything alignment indicative. But frankly, you are conf-biasing in your town cases of them and to say they are definitively flipping town means you are either lying to us or you are lying to yourself.

The fact that xtoxm has not started hyper posting to keep up with the game thread even though there is a wagon on him does not a town case make. Let's ignore the fact that he is fully capable of lurking as both alignments. Let's even pretend this matches his town meta exactly (it doesn't), and realize that it goes out the window when xtoxm explicitly says coming into the game that he's taking an approach to this game that's fundamentally different from how he usually does. There is nothing to say xtoxm can't break his meta and IF IT WERE as obvious and clear as day that xtoxm is town based on meta as you seem to think mastina, then that is all the more reason for xtoxm to choose to react in that way.

None of that matters. Actually, none of that matters. Because, more than likely, the reason for his supposed very alignment indicative disappearance and non-posting in light of being run-up, is just due to not being able to keep up with a hyper posting thread. Like, there is very little reason to assume it was a combination of lack of time and inability to keep up when his first post after being wagoned comes 700 posts after his last. You can't really ascribe anything town indicative regarding that disappearance. You can maybe make a scum case out of it, but more than likely it is NAI. His first post coming back is a direct response to the wagon on him, after which he disappears again. I don't think it's in good faith to argue "xtoxm just wouldn't disappear here as scum" when you can't possibly say with any reasonable confidence that xtoxm's disappearances aren't just like entirely out of his control. Again, I'm being very charitable here and assuming the whole meta argument as framed by mastina is entirely correct as well.

When he comes back again, xtoxm gives the excuse that he's stopped caring and is "barely reading." The latter statement is odd considering responded to several posts regarding reads on him and his wagon in his last post. But they were through Auro so it's possible only his team mate is really reading at this point.

He then makes #2560, which does show xtoxm has at least caught up at this point, but is also a completely unreasonable response given he's said he's barely reading and then shortly after says that he "stopped caring and made that clear." Given that xtoxm was largely absent except for one or two uncaring posts, it's just a really weird 'dunk' on me to make when I've tried to reach out to him multiple times and he's apparently read enough to at least know he was about to be hammered. Personally, I feel like this post doesn't really reflect a mindset of someone who is thinking about the game critically. The shade towards me just feels like the type of post scum thinks is a really great "gotcha" moment, but if xtoxm is town I think he realizes why I say that? Maybe I am reading too much into this post because it is directed towards me and it made me miffed, but it really doesn't feel townie.

As he comes back and starts posting more content, there just seems to be a lot of contradiction between how much xtoxm seemingly cares or doesn't care. He has stopped caring and seemingly hasn't read much, but has also kept up with the game "more than one might think," and then there's the reads list. I'm not going to argue one way or another what type of PT slip the link issue is or that it's more likely scum PT or not. It could be either and I don't know what xtoxm's dynamic with his team is, it seems like auro has done half the content in this game for xtoxm, so it maybe makes some sense. However, the fact that he possibly had this list run by his teammates is completely incongruent with his own statements that he clearly stopped caring about the game. It's also incongruent with the reasons mastina is town reading xtoxm! I also just find it highly unlikely xtoxm would want to run his reads by auro first when he admittedly hasn't had a chance to deeply read the game and has surface level reads. No matter how you spin it, it's a manufactured post, which makes me think xtoxm does care about his slot is perceived and consequently is caring enough about this game for the too scummy to be scum arguments to hold no weight.

Essentially, I'm not even arguing these point to scum!xtoxm. While I do think xtoxm has decent equity to flip scum, I would not be at all surprised if he flips town. All I'm saying is that the repeated assertions that xtoxm is definitively town are bunk, based on nothing concrete, and its delusional to keep repeating such a statement as fact. xtoxm is null at best. scummy at worst.

=======

The real reason why it's smart to kill off xtoxm today is simply because we're going to have to eventually. He has scum equity. And I don't think this slot is ever going to pull itself out of the PoE by virtue of suddenly posting amazing content. Auro has promised an ambiguous deeper dive if the slot survive but like, we still have 7 days left on the deadline so I'm not sure why Auro isn't desperately asking for a few more days to get this deeper dive going and prove this slot is town. Honestly, I think its an empty promise. A significant portion of the player list is going to come back to this slot day after day if we don't eliminate it. If xtoxm truly has stopped caring about the game, this isn't going to stop. No amount of brow beating by mastina or even ABR is really going to stop this. The towniness has to come from xtoxm, and from what I've seen, this isn't going to happen. Consequently, if the slot is town, xtoxm is never getting night killed. I don't want to see this slot near f3! Truly, I feel it's a no brainer at this point to eliminate a slot that doesn't seem to care, has a relatively decent amount of scum equity, and has had multiple counter wagons + people defending / pushing him.

It's not lazy. It's healthy for the game state, has a chance at hitting scum, and progresses the game forward SO THAT we can focus on other slots.

What happens to the xtoxm slot if we wagon Agar or mastina or cephrir or the worst or fucking hercule today? What happens to xtoxm tomorrow? How do people's perceptions of the slot change? Does xtoxm suddenly start caring about the game again now that they're not being wagoned? If xtoxm didn't care as town being put at el-1 than why would he care at any other point? All we have is a vague promise from Auro but that seems like a really shitty reason to keep a slot alive that has multiple good reasons to just get rid of.

It's not a lazy choice; it's smart.

Dannflor · Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:41 pm

alright mastina, I'm being lazy

I just still think it's the right choice

Dannflor · Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:48 pm

aye aye capn

Dannflor · Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:29 pm

who do you want to eliminate ythan?

Dannflor · Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:59 am

In post 3086, AGar wrote:3079 is hoooorseshit.

why?

Dannflor · Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:57 am

ythan let us know when you've looked at the more stuff you keep promising

Dannflor · Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:58 am

sorry i don't accept trolling oka poka as content

Dannflor · Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:32 am

In post 428, Ythan wrote:
In post 418, Dannflor wrote:ythan what are your strongest feels at the moment about the game or specific players
I haven't really looked at any isos or anything yet which is sorta necessary for me in a large (and this is my first large I think unless sunny was large since my long hiatus) and the only big pings I've gotten off individual posts are some Hercules things but it remains to be seen if I'm tunneling and I got a bad vibe from Wurst for support of Herc I couldn't really fathom.

In post 1956, Ythan wrote:Checking up on Xtoxm is my next to do in this game I just haven't gotten around to it.

In post 3008, Ythan wrote:Agar is still fine. I'm gonna look at more stuff later maybe one of the two I just mentioned.

Dannflor · Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:54 pm

UNVOTE:

yeah ok drop the pt discourse lol

Dannflor · Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:00 pm

VOTE: ythan

Dannflor · Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:49 am

In post 3288, AGar wrote:
In post 3286, Dannflor wrote:VOTE: ythan
What purpose does running yet another player up serve aside from further muddying the waters of any info that could be gleaned post-flip since now the wagons have all already lost a significant chunk of their value because they're just being pushed around willy nilly?

This paragraph doesn’t actually say anything

How exactly does me voting someone else muddy the waters? Why have the wagons lost a significant chunk of their value? What gives you the impression slots are getting pushed “willy nilly?”

I think there’s a decent likelihood of there being scum in the slots that hard defended xtoxm for little to no reason, that means mastina/ythan, I think ythan is a scummier, although I’m not strictly town reading mastina either, ergo.

Dannflor · Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:59 am

I want to yeet ythan

Idk how ythan is actually pronounced but in my head that’s fun to say