TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

[Dunnstral]

Oh, I should also warn you all that I will try to make a good impression early on then lurk it out to eternity

@Titus, the worst & Dunn: We all know you guys voting me is inevitable, so let's get it over with. :lol:

Why is me voting you inevitable?

[Dunnstral]

Comment was related to my vote on IV, thought it was evident

hmm I did a few things irl between seeing your IV vote and reading that, so I may have just context failed. I'm pretty tired. Actually my post read as snippier than my brain was trying to be.

Better counterpoint: IV is addicted to saying cute nonsense. This daystart is absolutely typical of IV as either alignment. Has anything else he's done struck you as alignment indicative or just the fluffy comments?

Someone on my team agrees with you btw (but I haven't asked for their reasoning yet)

From what I understand, IV likes being town. His best option if he's not town is to lead with nonsense and then assume someone town reads him by his gestures; this can include fluffy nonsense. The way he convinced himself that you were scummy did not sit right for me.

VOTE: InnocentVillager

[Dunnstral]

How the quack do you know hercule is town already? Just because AT&T betrayed him doesn't automatically make him a goof guy. AT&T could be early bus'ing

he is active off the bat and his fp seems excited, both things i associate at least somewhat with town
not into the trend of wagoning the most active player d1
idgi

I don't like this read

[Dunnstral]

-giving everyone else in your game a 1 is, while not explicitly banned, a massive dick move.

An easy way to fix this would be to not count the two tiebreak team's votes for each other

[Dunnstral]

they're making towny noises and want people to townread them so I'm obliging! i'll work out if I'm wrong later. Where u at on them?

maybe town? idk I'm more in a wait-and-see kinda mode. I vaguely liked his real time interaction with me just because it felt easy for him and unforced. but he really seems like a player I need to watch develop over a longer period of time especially to see if he maintains the same level of excitement and activity that he claims is emblematic of his town game

I was a little curious about your initial town read just because hercule has no meta on this site and the "excited hyperposter" poster persona is not one I've come to see as more town than not, in fact I think a lot of scum players default to that style at least at the start of the game in order to cover their weaknesses -- this is kind of a similar thought to unwnd's read on innocent villager. Anyway, I was wondering why you were so quick on the read given hercule could be a very experienced player and it didn't seem you had any history with them

that's briefly what I thought when I voted you and then I was like... nah that's probably stupid and voted ythan

it wasn't that deep beyond me having a moment of hesitation reading your posts and then just deciding to shelve it for later instead

I think hercule is an easy town read to make and I suppose could be town

but specifically I was stopped at your posts just because I know you as someone who tends to go below the surface level and then go a little deeper

granted page 1 but yknow

agreeing with this and liking Dann's thought process.
i'm feeling hercule is easy to townbin but also maybe

too easy

for scum to just townbin. slight eh on the worst

time to see what read hectic posting in the discord earlier

I don't see how hercule is towny from their posts so far.

Neutral, sure.

The townreads feel rushed and/or forced

[Dunnstral]

should i be reading this neutrally?

I am

They can be excited to play team mafia but have rolled scum

People aren't even using meta, they're saying he's excited, so he must be town, which doesn't really make sense, especially without knowing who this person is

[Dunnstral]

The ones they are getting look forced or people are too eager to townread one of the only people who were posting

[Dunnstral]

i am refreshing this a lot and i got up two hours earlier than i planned to today because of team mafia. can anyone consult with their teams over whether this is a healthy approach to the event?

Most players aren't going to be online at this time. In 2-3 hours activity tends to pick up

[Dunnstral]

hi ythan. am I your friend? if not are you offended that I replied? what do you make of hercule being town?

oh my meme worked Hercule is actually town
yeeet

VOTE: ythan

why

VOTE: hercule

Already nervous.

Hercule town is my only non fake read and I LOVE that you're voting there

hi ythan. am I your friend? if not are you offended that I replied? what do you make of hercule being town?

How the quack do you know hercule is town already? Just because AT&T betrayed him doesn't automatically make him a goof guy. AT&T could be early bus'ing

it was a joke. BUT....... it turns out I was probably right so I'm gonna claim psychic powers?

the worst why are you town reading hercule?

they're making towny noises and want people to townread them so I'm obliging! i'll work out if I'm wrong later. Where u at on them?

I don't think a townread at post 19 makes sense, they don't explain any reasons until post 140 and when they do it's lame

[Dunnstral]

147 is a good post from Dannflor

I'm keeping 149 in mind

I do think the worst has been awkward and is deserving of votes, would vote for him and IV at this point. Not necessarily both together

[Dunnstral]

There is a reason to have hercule as town, actually

He implied that super was reading this game at post 13, which implies that he's town since his teammate is reading into this game. This is easy to fake and isn't necessarily my read as a whole, I'm just pointing it out. I think Hopkirk saw that but nobody else referenced that as a reason to townread him

[Dunnstral]

Why is unwnd scum?

[Dunnstral]

I do think the worst has been awkward and is deserving of votes, would vote for him and IV at this point. Not necessarily both together

VOTE: Dunnstral

Explain

[Dunnstral]

I do think the worst has been awkward and is deserving of votes, would vote for him and IV at this point. Not necessarily both together

VOTE: Dunnstral

Explain

hmm maybe part of it was me thinking the "not necessarily both together" was a bit awkward LOL

How so?

I'm saying that I don't really believe you're both scum, mainly from the way the worst came to your defense not feeling like partners

[Dunnstral]

He implied that super was reading this game at post 13, which implies that he's town since his teammate is reading into this game. This is easy to fake and isn't necessarily my read as a whole, I'm just pointing it out. I think Hopkirk saw that but nobody else referenced that as a reason to townread him

also how do you feel about Datisi reading this game? does that make the worst town equity go up?

No

[Dunnstral]

It feels like you're making this up as you go along and tacking on whatever reason to scumread me

What exactly are you accusing me of doing in 201?

like if we're both scummy in your eyes why do you even need to think about associations between us? you should probably be equally willing to vote us regardless

pedit: why is that different?

I am equally willing to vote you both, isn't that what I said?
I didn't make a big deal out of the associative thing, I was just giving my thoughts.

And it's not different, note that I said that wasn't my read as a whole and is also easily fakeable

[Dunnstral]

It feels like you're making this up as you go along and tacking on whatever reason to scumread me

i am, is that scummy?

I'm trying to wrap my head around the implications of this

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler: Cephrir posts

i know i should probably wait until i catch up all the way and trim some of this a bit, but i'm not like in danger of contributing too much at the moment so suck it up

ok Datisi scumreads me like every game at this point lmaoooo

lame excuse

town: hercule, Dannflor, AGar

conflicted: the worst/Daddisi hydra

scum: VOTE: unwnd

Why is unwnd scum?

nvm i don't really scumread unwnd yet

but i will be watching u closely sir

i guess i want to understand what happened here, IV? this is just a very weird sequence of events to me

I do think the worst has been awkward and is deserving of votes, would vote for him and IV at this point. Not necessarily both together

VOTE: Dunnstral

choosing this moment right after being prodded by dunn to go after him didn't really resonate w me; also feels a bit like a chainsaw

I do think the worst has been awkward and is deserving of votes, would vote for him and IV at this point. Not necessarily both together

VOTE: Dunnstral

Explain

hmm maybe part of it was me thinking the "not necessarily both together" was a bit awkward LOL

i get having to go back and figure out what you were thinking at a given moment but it was like 2 posts ago? why are we "hmm maybe if we interpret the entrails this way" ing about an opinion that you literally just posted

can you expand on what you mean about the opening? my issue shouldn't be history dependent unless you have an in joke you're talking about

I rolled scum in JV and I's first game on site. The Worst replaced in and it came down to us three in ELo and I won. Since then they've had like a revenge thing where they want to roll scum together in a game against me. Good times.

As for why I townlean ABR at the moment: He voted Dannflor immediately after Dann voted Ythan, which is exactly what I would have done had I been active at that point in the game. That was my initial reaction.

The flaw with this is that ABR may not have been voting Dann for that exact reason, but I'm happy to assume it unless he says otherwise.

that's a really fast townlean for noticing something that would obviously stand out as weird to anybody regardless of their role pm color

It strikes me a bit odd that you ask about those two things but not the one where I'm practically hard accusing someone of having a scummy opening to the game?

+Partner Equity for Hopkirk and Almost50, everyone.

Not that I particularly think Hop is being scummy at the moment, but ye.

yes, let's start doing unflipped associatives on page 8

It feels like you're making this up as you go along and tacking on whatever reason to scumread me

i am, is that scummy?

y... yes?

Dunnstral mega town off of this interaction.

UNVOTE: Dunnstral

im willing to do this but can you explain how you got "megatown"?

after that whole exchange, someone else's opinion is the thing that gets you to unvote? what

ythan town

From what I understand, IV likes being town. His best option if he's not town is to lead with nonsense and then assume someone town reads him by his gestures; this can include fluffy nonsense. The way he convinced himself that you were scummy did not sit right for me.

this might actually be a real thought because this is exactly what I tried to do to (while pocketing the worst) in Mini 2160! but i can't do that anymore, it only works once. im curious as to how you know me so well... my towngames you've seen me in were pretty different

pedit: what are you confused/thinking about?

what on earth does the likelihood of this thought being real have to do with you happening to have done that in some other game

are you some sort of space alien i don't get these processes

I am agreeing with this but don't know how to interperet 206, it feels like a post that comes from town, or that they don't really know what they're doing. I wouldn't expect scum to post that and act normal

[Dunnstral]

and here we see DGB continuing to evade us

Who is "us?" Your scum team?

petapan said something along the lines of DGB being known for tunneling random dumb sh/t when I asked him recently and I'm wondering if this kind of material is NAI despite being objectively scummy fmpov. like please what is this push lmao

I can see it coming from town DGB, I'd say nai or town, not sure which

hahah oh boy more votes

im not as easy to miseliminate as i was before, sorry scum

mark your fucking days

kind of scummy post imo

gypyx and i agree unwnd is town. i think he's more confident than i am. to paraphrase, he thinks the push on me at the start was a bad case but his entrance and engagement with me was towny, all of which i agree with and none of this matches his general busy/narrativy bullshit scum style. this might be my first real townread, congratulations unwnd.

I have unwnd as null

I'm not inclined to push there though

[Dunnstral]

i don't really think about it in that way necessarily

i townread unwnd, Dannflor so I don't necessarily mind their votes?

i don't townread you, Ceph, Dunnstral (conflicted on him will have to reread, but i feel like i should have an opinion there maybe idk)

so maybe i don't like you, Ceph, or Dunnstral 's votes because I don't townread any of you? idk what you're looking for here exactly

You are omgusing hard this game

I don't usually throw that phrase around but it feels like you suspect whoever suspected you when you get back into the thread

[Dunnstral]

I'm not going to claim to be an expert at reading AGar (far from it)

To me his posts feel more NAI than uberscum like is being suggested

I can see him making 529 as town

Don't really like 548 because I don't agree that ceph is scum-claiming for thinking agar is scum

[Dunnstral]

also tell him we dont care abt his input until we have literally any kind of mech info

Who?

[Dunnstral]

-post 125 is fake

How can that post possibly be 'fake'?

[Dunnstral]

Xtoxm - unprompted and unpostury/interesting notes from Auro are good, i liked 642 for example. don't see an agenda from this slot, not postury, takes are pretty reasonable. other people townreading them too despite lack of content quantity which feels good. weaker townlean probably

This is a pretty lame read

@Dunn: You are also the one most familiar with me in your team, but it won't hurt to know what the others think too

I don't really have a read on you though. I feel that asking my team what they think of you is a waste of team-resources; especially since this is pretty out of the blue. I'm unlikely to vote for you on day 1.

[Dunnstral]

I'm on the fence about how much to say but my team are like assertively undecided on AGar but I don't think I really have an opportunity to advance my read on him atp

i prefer this to forgetting about it. i don't wanna be like, party's moving to the next house let's forget this ever happened, but that seems to be where the thread is headed.

I still think that everybody jumping on them was preemptive/based on what is nai for him

And we haven't moved on from that

They had a good post, the vote thing is nitpicking, saying his team could make that post is true but there's no evidence for it, and the original argument wasn't convincing to me

[Dunnstral]

Alright so this is my first "re-catchup" post, I'm going to try my hardest to start as fresh as I possibly can,

Why?

[Dunnstral]

gamestate/sanity check

for 42 pages, wagon movement has been awfully slow hasn't it?

To be blunt, there's a lot of launchbait in this game. Or at least people I fall into a habit of wanting to elim

[Dunnstral]

ABR, DGB, A50, JacksonVirgo, and recently Titus

[Dunnstral]

ABR, DGB, A50, JacksonVirgo, and recently Titus

Are you saying these are who you want to elim or those that are the general lhf?

Lhf to me

[Dunnstral]

This is a pretty lame read

what don't you like about my Xtoxm read? i said it's a weaker townlean but i don't think any of the reasoning i gave was necessarily "lame"

They pointed to a post being fake which I don't understand how the post can be fake, due to the nature of the post

Or they said their teammate did that.

[Dunnstral]

auro seems to be following the game, he's made some comments today and yesterday.

in summary:
-post 125 is fake
-ABR is displaying an unusual lack of effort. he's never seen ABR's scum game.
-townreading dann for depth of thought on page 6
-he is mindmelding with hectic
-he highlights the following quote and notes that AGar is right on point:

The ABR vote and feelers were specifically to maybe hopefully coax something out of ABR considering he's been the quietest person in this thread wrt what is few posts actually say. I've literally never seen this from ABR and it's the antithesis to his bloated ego to sit back and let someone else dictate a gamestate.

im in general agreement with him on abr thread. dann's posting is fine but a townread is premature, i don't believe i've seen anything i wouldnt be expecting wolf-dann to be doing.

(this is not the full extent but thats all i want to share)

-post 125 is fake

How can that post possibly be 'fake'?

Oh, I should also warn you all that I will try to make a good impression early on then lurk it out to eternity

@Titus, the worst & Dunn: We all know you guys voting me is inevitable, so let's get it over with. :lol:

*refuses the power of the inevitable*

*looks at ABR*

*doubles down on that*

Yes, you mention me, what's up? Long time haha...

[Dunnstral]

can you help me see 506 as nai, i still think it's a scumpost. feel free to rebut 510 since i didn't find his rebuttal very convincing
i did think the wagon had fallen apart a bit more than it actually has.

506 is in line with what I think he would post as town anyway

I don't have much more than that, really, this is my impression of him as a player and not going back to look at his meta.

My thoughts on your points:

VOTE: AGar

i don't know if i'd have been bothered by this if unwnd didn't point it out but new york's hottest scumpost is 506. this post has everything:

-complaining about post count
-pointless filler that also randomly drops the only thing he's cared about thus far
-overreaction to titus
-useless nonanalysis on unwnd that turns into a suspicion for some reason
-a MYSTERY VOTE

ceph, i hate to ask, but what's a mystery vote
well seth, that's when you vote ABR without having ever mentioned him before anywhere in your iso for no apparent reason.

complaining about post count is probably NAI for him
dropping what he cared about: he has a small amount of posts so it feels like he is just getting into the game and the previous stuff was rvs
overreaction to titus: I thought they had a history together which prompted this post
unwnd thing: 161 is actually a post by hopkirk (incorrectly linked). So that's where the suspicion is, and Unwnd's thing is something else
mystery vote: again, they don't have much of an iso before this, so this is them coming into the game. The vote is unexplained, though, and dropped quickly after, and 529 is a misinterpretation of the situation

[Dunnstral]

you know, it's probably not a bad idea to take LAMIST as a scumtell for site meta health because we keep getting deepwolfed and our games are exhausting, we could just make everyone cut it out LOL

Who are you talking about?

Haven't got there yet, but I'm ok with putting him in my never eliminate pile.

Because he gave a few reads? I'm not seeing where this confidence is coming from. I'm accusing you of not doing due diligence in analyzing reads here instead of something more sinister.

yeah reading titus up to this point leaves me pretty unimpressed but i don't feel the need to vote it right this second

I'm not exactly impressive at this moment unless you agree with my conviction that Agar is scum. I hadn't done much. I was focusing on other games because I am overgamed.

Using this excuse in team mafia is kind of pingy because I feel this game should be pretty high priority.

unwnd is town.

He still hasn't done anything he isn't capable of doing as scum.

Not to say I think that, I'm actually null right now. I do like his posts right now. This is me doing my due diligence.

TOWN

DrippingGoofball
unwnd
OkaPoka
hercule
Titus
Cephrir
WinterFlakes/Uncrowned

NULL

Dannflor
Almost50
innocentvillager
Albert B. Rampage
the worst
AGar
Hopkirk

SCUM

Xtoxm
JacksonVirgo
Ythan

YEET BAIT TOWN

Dunnstral

I don't think anybody has brought up eliminating me (the opposite in fact), so putting me in a separate category by myself is silly and unfounded

[Dunnstral]

dgb I will update you on Ythan I’ll need to look there again, had him as a townlean for early posting

so I think I was townleaning Ythan pre-212 because of the brashness/tone that he didn't care about his thread presence. I thought the 1v1 with hercule was potentially +town and even the little things like "Morning friends." and just leaving.

Looking at him post-212 he gives a similar vibe. I remember it was almost impossible to figure out what reads/stance town!Ythan had in this one game we played (Open 786) and this isn't the same but still reminiscent of that. OTOH some scum just don't give a fuck about thread presence so im willing to accept this *could* be NAI behavior from Ythan if others know him better. Two reactions stuck out to me:

1) 728, 734, 738.
-nothing crazy here but this kind of indifference to hercule/stubborness about his own read feels genuine? ("it's my read and what i saw/think, so, whatever, deal with it" -kind of attitude)

2) His scumlean on me is random and not substantiated (764, 767, 780, 794, 795, 799)
-essentially he quoted some random post of mine that was weird, then said i along with 2 others gave him "jitters". since he didn't say anything else about it I tried to pin him down on whether or not that post was why he was scumreading me and he basically insinuated that I was misrepping him/"changing it".

Idk, it just feels like a towny mindset that like he has this nebula of thoughts on why I'm scummy then picked out an additional quote from me he thought was weird, and then when asked whether or not that was the reason, he felt like I was asking something really strange. It's possible I've completely misinterpreted this interaction but I'd expect scum!Ythan to realize that my line of questioning is genuine so it's obviously coming from

somewhere

(because he knows im town), then respond in a less "aggressive" (i can't think of a fitting word, maybe light aggression lol) manner

i think, with all this in mind im seeing Ythan as a player who is simply here to have a good time and completely and utterly unconcerned with thread presence/public continuation of thought. he appears to believe what he sees/interprets and gets shows suspicions when others try to challenge the authenticity of his thoughts (hercule, me). im therefore leaning town on ythan, without any real meta knowledge of his scumrange.

she strongly scumread IV at the time but probably agrees with me at this point that he's more likely town (she's anxious about his cutesie/clueless approach to the game because he's proven able to emulate it as scum, but i do think he's pushing himself with reads in a way which he'd struggle with as scum - this is an epic tangent).

while i'm going back i made a note that viewtopic.php?p=12522178#p12522178 <== this was either co-written or outside of IV's scumrange, and probably not cowritten because it missed dancefloor

im not sure how i feel about you flipping on me so easily, was my scumgame in 2160 really that devoid of reads/analysis? (lmao if that's what you thought it was that's fine)

if i was scum here i would absolutely be pushing myself here despite probably hating myself for most of it as well since this is a big team event (if it was a regular game, fuck that lol), and since it's easier for me to deepwolf through D1. i think a decent amount of 2160 was like, just barely outside my scumrange at that time. You know that im the kind of person who doesn't like to let teammates down, lol.

idk, i just remember you using the argument "i think innocentvillager would be really struggling here to post the way he's been doing as scum" in 2160, and now you're using that same argument despite being wrong on it once which makes me wonder what's different here to you.

OK.

I like the way innocentvillagers is analyzing things today, especially in these posts. It's enough for me to pull back from here.

UNVOTE: InnocentVillager

[Dunnstral]

okay so let's form the read unwnd committee

dunnstral, titus, innocent villager are the members of this committee

Unwnd saying they'd be willing to vote for me with no further explanation is +++scum especially with his team, for multiple reasons.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Xtoxm

Fine with this

[Dunnstral]

Unwnd, Cephrir, A50, Titus, convene

[Dunnstral]

Unwnd, Cephrir, A50, Titus, convene

Wanna convene Xtoxm while you're at it?

I've tried, they talk past me

[Dunnstral]

*convenes*

what are we convening about

Tenet just ended, does this affect anything?

I guess you were scum so you knew everything anyway. Also that game is a good reason for me to have you at null and not a townread right now (which is honestly where I have you anyway, because while I like reading your posts I'm not seeing anything that is out of range for scum)

[Dunnstral]

Do you think unwnd looks similar here to how he played in that game?

What about me?

Those are the big ones I think

[Dunnstral]

I'm not scumreading you, I just don't see a reason to townread you. Or rather, I think townreads are lazy and charisma based. Same thing for Unwnd, it feels like he's being townread for talking, when I feel he is well within his established scum range, in a game that IV linked.

[Dunnstral]

I don't really do the 'I can never trust this person' thing

DGB feels vaguely good but don't trust me to read there.

JV gets scumread a lot when he's town and this game hasn't moved past that point yet, so I don't suspect him (this is a null read)

Hercule looks genuinely towny now that we've moved past the early stuff

Titus, A50, ABR, I have no idea.

Never played with Ythan, keeping an eye out here now that IV has cased them

IV looks more natural after making that case and some other stuff. Couple of weird posts.

the worst is unimpressive

OkaPoka I'm trusting other people that he's town. I don't have any problems with them.

Hopkirk looks like town to me. I've seen them upset before in a game. This anger did feel overblown a bit though.

Unwnd I talked about and I didn't like his push on hopkirk. 762 feels out of character for unwnd and frankly scummy; also I thought it was talking about me for reasons but then they threw me into a would vote list without reasons so.

Winter Flakes: What do they mean by 1242? I don't think this game is that confusing. Otherwise I was townleaning them and wasn't convinced by the push against them

Xtoxm: It feels like they're not capable of posting unless they have their team behind them. Not sure what that means. Otherwise I was thinking playstyle clash but I'm not really a fan, hence my vote.

Dannflor: Pressure here in the future will be worthwhile. Exchanged banter and asked a few questions, and joined a few wagons. I don't think joining wagons is scummy, though.

[Dunnstral]

I still think unwnd is displaying a nonguilty/pure mindset that is pretty hard as scum.

I think reads like this are bending over backwards to describe a tone read

I don't it would be particularly difficult for unwnd to be playing scum like this

[Dunnstral]

so I think the Hopkirk shitpush is a town misplay. the net result is that it pulls credibility from unwnd's actual push on Hopkirk and allows Hopz a powerful rebuttal because the actual case on him was incoherent. The "my team thinks" mistype is something that feels like it comes from a pretty natural mindset - "some members of my team think (and the rest are sheeping)" would have been a more accurate phrasing but it doesn't actually lend credibility to the rhetorical power of the fact unwnd has support for his scum!Kirk read; it's just a sloppy misspeak which allows Hop an easy rebuttal.

unwnd is capable of high effort as scum. they're capable of acting lazy as scum. they're capable of trying to sound natural as scum. I find it a hard to believe that they've constructed a shitty case on Hopkirk and then actually successfully hit send without realising that what they're trying to say makes literally no sense - there's also an utterly unapologetic mindset behind the error that makes me very strongly think it's a real thought.

This is like my second strongest impression behind the IV post which I think broke scumrange

it was a townslip in a really non-slippy non-engineered way, the mindset just feels earnestly dopey in a way which I absolutely buy unwnd (a categorically undopey player) being dopey

If scum he's more concerned with looking town than actually eliminating hopkirk

[Dunnstral]

ok, I'll consider that

[Dunnstral]

You have 9 people as strong townreads and it feels fake

[Dunnstral]

Saying this day phase is being controlled by scum feels like complaining after the wagon switched from Agar to Xtoxm

Or if not that, it still was never substantiated by pointing at people or explaining how it's being controlled by scum

1606 by Dannflor is a good post, all the posts that come after that are not so good

mmm okay we think we know what you're talking about @Hopkirk, but we're not entirely sure. only thing that peta wants to say is that if it's what we're postulating at is that he thinks unwnd has more integrity than what we think you're accusing him of. spf thinks it's such a specific/complex thought process from you that it probably is town indicative.

and this convo is now so far in the weeds that I am considering it closed.

o have no idea what this conversation is about but it sure smells like angleshooting

From what I'm understanding:

Hopkirk hosted a dnd campaign that is on whoever else's team and he feels they should be able to vouch for him not being here at that time, and also for some reason this is being kept hush-hush (You don't need to cite sources, just say that you were running dnd, you're not going to get called a liar)

[Dunnstral]

oh okay. i don't get why that was so important but sure.

Disclaimer: There's a large chance that I'm wrong

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler:

It's because Dunn is scum

What are you referring to?

[Dunnstral]

hot take Hopkirk v unwnd is SvS

i feel like unwnd is taking out his frustration at modern hyperposting town meta at Hopkirk and I think it probably comes from a town mindset in a vacuum

weird posting

[Dunnstral]

It kind of feels like the story is changing here. It didn't feel like you were talking about me when you said scum was leading the game state earlier, this feels like an explanation you just came up with.

[Dunnstral]

it's probably a good idea to always assume scum are somewhere in the townlists, since if they aren't you've most likely already won

Take a look at Unwnd's progression on me

[Dunnstral]

So this is all preflip speculation that other unnamed people are townreading me so it's scum lazily townreading each other, and that's why I'm scum?

That's what it sounds like you're saying, and it's not how I would expect you to arrive at reads on day 1.

[Dunnstral]

More like general annoyance? I don't know where you gathered preflip speculation from this honestly?

Townreads on you are undeserved, you've had the same qualm with me up until now where I am apparently scum for paying attention to your own progression.

Yeah I have

But in my case, I think people aren't doing enough to try to read you, and are lazily thinking that you putting in a bit of effort makes you town

In your case, you're alluding that because people are townreading me, I'm scum, and they're scum too

[Dunnstral]

And that's where preflip comes in

Your reason for suspecting me is because you don't like the townreads on me, and apparently unspecified members of that group are scum, so that makes me scum

[Dunnstral]

Saying townreads on me are undeserved is different from saying I'm scum

[Dunnstral]

I don't know where you gathered preflip speculation from this honestly?

The basis of those scumreads are not just (oh, they townread dunn so add them into a provebial list of people aligned with him), rather, I scumread them independently which makes me account for who they say they're townreading/scumreading instead

Is this not the preflip speculation?

And that's where preflip comes in

Your reason for suspecting me is because you don't like the townreads on me, and apparently unspecified members of that group are scum, so that makes me scum

DGB putting you in a special category for low hanging fruit was weird.

She said it was revenge for what I said about her.

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler: For ABR

gamestate/sanity check

for 42 pages, wagon movement has been awfully slow hasn't it?

To be blunt, there's a lot of launchbait in this game. Or at least people I fall into a habit of wanting to elim

ABR, DGB, A50, JacksonVirgo, and recently Titus

I don't think anybody has brought up eliminating me (the opposite in fact), so putting me in a separate category by myself is silly and unfounded

It's founded on petty revenge for you calling me yeet bait!

She said it was revenge for what I said about her.

what about her buddying of you after that?

What are you referring to?

[Dunnstral]

but I do think there is some weird shit you're doing

So why aren't you talking about this instead of whatever you're doing now

Because what you're doing now doesn't feel like how you approach the game as town

[Dunnstral]

I never said anything about meta though

[Dunnstral]

If I'm doing weird things, why aren't you pointing them out?

[Dunnstral]

Unwnd, Cephrir, A50, Titus, convene

Wanna convene Xtoxm while you're at it?

Convene doesn't mean vote, if this is what you're talking about. Also I was already voting xtoxm

[Dunnstral]

Your argument is leading on my own meta is it not? You keep saying this isn't how I approach the game as town, and earlier you started to say +++scum because of Maria or something

Like it's all just nonsense

Your argument is that as scum you'd have your whole team behind you proofreading your posts?

I think that's nonsense

The way you have been approaching my slot

is

+scum

[Dunnstral]

elaborate ?

Saying I'm scum because other people who they think are scum are scumreading me, instead of directly pointing to the supposed "weird stuff" that I've been doing

[Dunnstral]

I don't understand why you're so reluctant to explain how I've been weird.

The preflip thing is based on this:

I don't know where you gathered preflip speculation from this honestly?

The basis of those scumreads are not just (oh, they townread dunn so add them into a provebial list of people aligned with him), rather, I scumread them independently which makes me account for who they say they're townreading/scumreading instead

Is this not the preflip speculation?

[Dunnstral]

'well if Maria thinks that's it's +++scum'

That's not actually what I said, by the way. Here is what I said:

okay so let's form the read unwnd committee

dunnstral, titus, innocent villager are the members of this committee

Unwnd saying they'd be willing to vote for me with no further explanation is +++scum especially with his team, for multiple reasons.

[Dunnstral]

what is he hoping to gain by being willing to vote you with no explanation? that isn't going to convince anyone

It's not about what he's looking to gain, it's about the way he's approaching the game feeling less like town due to it

Not everything needs a motivation

[Dunnstral]

...You're implying it's not a direct thing to Maria? You think Mena has meta with you or you have such a relationship that it would ping you as town?

Cmon Dunn, you're not that dense

beeboy and ampharos. I don't know when Mena replaced in.

Your team was 4 people who know me, so sort of skirting around me is really scummy, yes.

[Dunnstral]

Because when you have four people who know me on your team, some of which like to pride themself on being able to read me very well (whether that is true is a different conversation): then yes, ignoring me and then saying I'm scum and pointing to eldritch signs in other peoples' posting where they townread me as the reason behind your read is scummy

This isn't a hard concept to grasp. You're acting obtuse

Like ok, beeboy and Ampharos probably wouldn't be reading this game regardless. I'll give you that.

[Dunnstral]

anybody ever know what goes on whenever dunn and maria start talking to each other

Stop this misrep

I never talked to Maria, unwnd is the one who brought that in

[Dunnstral]

So what you're saying is that your argument is dumb meta but also it's TM tells

You can call it dumb meta all day long

At the end of the day you're still acting super weird in the context of this game

[Dunnstral]

Unwnd's argument feels bad faith in a way where he's trying to bring up meta and maria and other arguments that look worse, while being unable to substantiate his own claims

[Dunnstral]

Oka I've explained that within the past few pages

And no, I'm not talking to Maria.

[Dunnstral]

YOU WERE THE ONE WHO STARTED IT DUNN LOL

No, what I mean is:

It looks like you keep referencing what you see as the easiest arguments to attack and bringing them out over and over again, while ignoring what is problematic for you

[Dunnstral]

sure okay

if we turn the clock back to post 1397, what were the reasons then and why did it specifically apply to unwnd's team? I assumed unwnd team was an implication about maria but if not do explain more

Turn the clock back to posts 1791, 1792, 1798

[Dunnstral]

What's problematic for me?

What?

I'm saying that you're ignoring some of my points in favor of what is easier to attack for you

[Dunnstral]

I assumed unwnd team really means mariaR

well, you're wrong, I meant his whole team.

You guys are asking me to explain things 3 or 4 times and it's not really what I want to talk about.

[Dunnstral]

Do you mean that the team should townread you, is the read the issue at that moment? What's the issue and why?

The issue is the way he is reading me is not consistent with his team looking at this game with him being town, and also doesn't feel like what he does on his own

How does he go from null to scum with no explanation (it is later explained that this is because of eldritch signs and star constellations, and also because somebody else townread me)

[Dunnstral]

Dunn/Dann/Herc/ maaaaybe DGB/winterflakes

Kinda only agree on one, then the most defined read I have would be Dunn purely based on experience (even if it's Null), wherein he establishes himself later and if scum is caught on who he votes.

Right now outside of hopkirk vote I am looking at

Flakes/the worst/Titus/Dunn

Then maybe DGB. I can't remember why I scumread IV but it's probably outdated. I want to look into AGar more sincerely before I decide if it was a great vote after all

The progression between these two posts is nonexistant and feels fake, but I wasn't going to vote him just based on this because it wasn't a smoking gun, it was just weird

Why can't i just have a read i want to express in the thread to see how others feel about it lol

Didn't you refuse to express it multiple times?

Also, you're doing that thing where you add a nervous lol to the end of your post, which feels out of character!

[Dunnstral]

ok

Most of my thoughts around 1397 are probably bad

I want to focus on unwnd's reasons to call me scum now (other people's reads on me).

I'm saying that that is preflip (assuming other people are scum, so I must be scum because of interactions between us (even minimal interactions like naked reads list on their side))

And then Unwnd thinking I'm weird but not wanting to or not being able to explain how in ANY capacity at all, instead it feels like he's redirecting to talking about 1397 and how meta reads are bad

[Dunnstral]

again why is unwnd obligated to explain the read change 1000 posts through?

Is this like, a philosophical question?

It's a mafia game so when you get questioned on something reasonable why not just answer

[Dunnstral]

This only came to fruition cause you confronted me, man

I'm just explaining my thought process

You popped in and said I was scum unprompted right as I started posting, and you had no explanations, and then your explanation was wacky

[Dunnstral]

I do not understand the wagon on xtoxm nor how it has come about. Could've missed reasoning, but don't think I have? Composition feels like it sucks, would need a VC to confirm but I've seen some names I don't like on it.

This got ignored at the time but should get an explanation

[Dunnstral]

A lot of the playerlist seems content to point to a very vague scum team and sort of say 'look at how these people are manipulating the game state/making us vote xtoxm'

But I'm not hearing names. Who is doing that?

These are people who should be under heavy scrutiny if xtoxm flips scum. It's fake concern, it's something to say when you don't want to just hop on to xtoxm

[Dunnstral]

we can go there next but i want to explore the mentality because clearly, you felt that unwnd and his team (because of their relationship to you) had to treat you differently than they would with other slots right? i mean I don't find that an unreasonable ask... i just want to know the nature of the relationship you expect from a town!unwnd and thus town!maria beeboy amph etc.

i mean you didn't really question them at the point of 1397, it seemed like it was more of a "well they just did scummy thing here comment"

Kind of?

I'm not asking for much, you make it sound like I want preferential treatment but really ignoring me all game and then calling me scum unexplained was worth commenting on

[Dunnstral]

It should get an explanation from AGar, I mean.

[Dunnstral]

we can go there next but i want to explore the mentality because clearly, you felt that unwnd and his team (because of their relationship to you) had to treat you differently than they would with other slots right? i mean I don't find that an unreasonable ask... i just want to know the nature of the relationship you expect from a town!unwnd and thus town!maria beeboy amph etc.

i mean you didn't really question them at the point of 1397, it seemed like it was more of a "well they just did scummy thing here comment"

Kind of?

I'm not asking for much, you make it sound like I want preferential treatment but really ignoring me all game and then calling me scum unexplained was worth commenting on

the way you worded it made it seem like your comment was only applicable in that case specifically because it was unwnd and team, am i wrong in saying that?

as in, if i did what unwnd did or the worst did what unwnd, that +++++scumequity would not be applicable

Correct

Also, I've given separate reasons for voting xtoxm

[Dunnstral]

No....?

Dunn this is insane

Your read lacks nuance

People you scumread townread me, so I'm scum

It fails to consider that hey, maybe they're scum but I'm town and they're townreading me for a plethora of other reasons

If you want to say townreads on me are undeserved, that's fine, but that doesn't make me scum

[Dunnstral]

i.e. would you have a problem with unwnd if they went from null to scum without explanation on a slot say... okapoka

If they gave the same explanation, then yes.

I might be less likely to notice the read shift immediately, or think that it's significant

[Dunnstral]

okay i am glad we established that at least

so the issue i presume then you have with unwnd has to do with the fact that you would think unwnd and friends would explain their scumread on you because you are dunnstral? or because they would explain any read progression?

No. That's my explanation for 1397. My actual issue with him is something completely different, and the only reason I'm referencing 1397 is because you keep asking me about it.

[Dunnstral]

The thing is that Unwnd explained his thoughts kind of, but they don't really make sense and it feels like we're arguing in circles trying to pull something out of him

[Dunnstral]

Once again, his read being based on other people townreading me, and me being weird but not wanting to/not able to explain it

[Dunnstral]

Your read wasn't framed as you wanting to see how others feel about it

[Dunnstral]

This will forever be my response to anything Dunn is doing right now

I'm willing to move on.

[Dunnstral]

I was going for: What are the names you don't like on it and why

[Dunnstral]

Oka feels like town through the last few pages

[Dunnstral]

No, we should continue to vote Xtoxm. Their reaction is really weird in that it's just auro's surface level takes

Like I said earlier, it feels like Xtoxm can't play this game without their team behind them, and that's strange

[Dunnstral]

Cephrir - Town lean. I have had trouble getting a bead on this slot. There are a lot of players in this game that are pleasant and make pleasant enough posts and aren't really doing anything scummy, but that's not really enough to town read someone in a game where everyone is like that.

Over time, I've just gotten the strong sense that Cephrir is uninformed. That may not seem like a lot and scum can certainly act unsure and fill their ISO with questions over content. However, Cephrir has a good mix of content with his very careful approach of trying to figure out wtf is going on in this game. He hasn't necessarily acted as a "mediator" in the Dunn vs. unwnd type scuffles (which would be an easy way to get town cred) but instead approached such 1v1s as trying to figure out what each party is actually saying and what their reads are. He also has the quality of calling out some of the more bullshit reads and claims such as vague statements about wagon composition/placement and gamestate reads, trying to get people defend their takes with a little less vagueness. He never does this is an accusatory way, or like he's trying to push something, but to try to understand a slot's perspective better.

I liked his Agar push. I like the reasoning behind the reads he's expressed. The only reason this isn't a more confident read is mostly just that it's really hard to get confident reads in a large for me and I haven't gotten a high enough concentration of town!Ceph yet to be like, yes this is definitely town.

I didn't like his response to me vs unwnd, actually, it felt like he was too far on the sidelines. I don't know his activity at the time which is why I'm not pushing this harder, but him trying to figure things out felt empty

[Dunnstral]

Here's my take on xtoxm and why I think he's null

You have to put yourself in a suspension of disbelief that xtoxm (along with his partners) see he's at E-2 whatever and not have some sort of reaction to it? If that's a gameplan and he's just going down for the towncred, who the hell is bussing him? There is slanker scum, I'm not denying that possibility. It's just that I think even the most feeble scum could see the town rallying to kill him and at least want to do some FUD before they're out the door

I would like this answered from the 'xtoxm is obvscum' crowd

Counterpoint: Why would they do that as town?

Slanking either way, not everything needs a reason

[Dunnstral]

ABR is being very awkward. Not sure if he's town or scum here but he's certainly derailed this wagon.

I think we should stick to xtoxm today

[Dunnstral]

bruh the main thing is how do you tab in after 2 days to a wagon forming on you and your only post. your ONLY post is to paraphrase some shit your teammate said?? not even a "this is fine" meme?? nothing?

Quite easily as it turns out. Xtoxm was the D2 elimination that game; go look at his posting at the bottom of his iso. Notice something?

His posting there is almost nothing--no recognition of his situation, nothing.

And that's just the example I got from the top of his game history where he was eliminated.

I could find many others.

Suffice to say: Xtoxm reacting that way isn't scum; I actually think it's town.

They posted 16 times in one day while being ran up

And then at the end after they had been voted out, they posted one more time

It's not the same thing

[Dunnstral]

which a simple meta check on Xtoxm will show...is not alignment indicative,

I refuted your meta by pointing out that he posted 16 times in a day while being ran up, from what you linked. Here he posted once, and it was someone else's thoughts.

[Dunnstral]

Abr why did you go from supporting xtoxm wagon to saying it will probably flip town when intent was placed?

[Dunnstral]

Abr why did you go from supporting xtoxm wagon to saying it will probably flip town when intent was placed?

Because it's what I think

Why did your thoughts change

[Dunnstral]

Abr why did you go from supporting xtoxm wagon to saying it will probably flip town when intent was placed?

Because it's what I think

Why did your thoughts change

i know you saw my post in the pedit window of me asking the same thing and you still asked. i just want you to know that I know :P

Nope, you posted before I hit quote on abr's post, so it didn't give me a heads up

[Dunnstral]

he's scummy but like ??? it's day 1 in a large if either of you flipped town I would be frustrated but not surprised

ABR popping in to say xtoxm is town right before the elim is probably not scum-scum

[Dunnstral]

They posted 16 times in one day while being ran up
And then at the end after they had been voted out, they posted one more time
It's not the same thing

He also posted like 10 times in one day while being run up when he was scum last team mafia. So posting while being run up is not a town-indicator for him.

The nature of the content when run up IS.

In last year's team mafia, there was a notable reaction to him being run up.

In Jigsaw's Revenge, he had no reaction to being run up.

This was a town game where he didn't post up a storm while run up. He lurked and was mislynched. With no notable reaction to being run up.

For the record, I've been looking over like 10-20 Xtoxm games (looking for games where he was explicitly eliminated during the day regardless of his alignment, so I had to exclude endgamed and survived and nightkilled results), and in the process I have thought that, while Xtoxm is hard to read, that this is still more likely him as town.

Noted. I don't think his 1 post here is enough to get a townread off meta though.

[Dunnstral]

bruh the main thing is how do you tab in after 2 days to a wagon forming on you and your only post. your ONLY post is to paraphrase some shit your teammate said??

not even a "this is fine" meme?? nothing?

Yeah, but do you do that while trying to do at least..something?

kinda fair, this certainly wouldn't be my strat here

It's not fair.

You guys are making the assumption that xtoxm somehow would care more if he were scum than if he were town

There's nothing to back up this assumption, in fact team weight wise both games would be worth the same, but the mafia game would probably be harder to win

[Dunnstral]

So no, he isn't trying to do something, and no, this doesn't make him town

[Dunnstral]

I'm just going to outsiurce my vote to mastin for the rest of day 1.

VOTE: hercules

is this flailing?

Not if he thinks xtoxm is town

[Dunnstral]

ABR sure didn't explain how his thoughts changed

[Dunnstral]

honestly I'm vibing with Agar, I can't really align my brain with mastina at all and I would want to give her a pass and say she's not caught up, but at this point everyone has told her that and she is willfully ignoring it. Sometimes you just gotta vote scummy people and not make excuses for them. I feel the same way about ABR, I feel the same way about Xtoxm, I think they both reacted poorly to their wagons. I'll vote any of those three. I'll vote Ythan as well. That's where I'm at. If this day continues I will just keep sorting, I am not really in a hurry to end it but it seems to have intensified, so that's the four people I would vote in atm.

This is a town post

Winter flakes doesn't look scummy to me from the past few pages. I guess this is a difference in tone reading.

[Dunnstral]

AGar coming in and saying 'this mastina nonsense' is actually scummy and like my heart wants to believe it

But I'm not sure if the brain agrees..

If you take into account that she's pushing Hercule it might actually be scummy

If xtoxm is scum she should be looked at. Or just eliminated

If town idk yet

Checking up on Xtoxm is my next to do in this game I just haven't gotten around to it.

This is weird

[Dunnstral]

To be honest, I don't even know how relevant the titus-xtoxm case is here

[Dunnstral]

The amount of effort being put forth to defend xtoxm when they've put so little effort in is both strange and annoying

[Dunnstral]

Ythan why are you only posting memes now?

[Dunnstral]

...Who is defending xtoxm besides like mastina?

Abr threw something in there

It is mostly Mastina

So I guess we're just getting annoyed for no reason?

And the only reason xtoxm isn't being ran up right now is because some people switched to abr

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler: What you were doing before

give a quicktownblock Ythan, stat

I'm going to acknowledge that I saw this but not do it because I don't have those feelings.

you don't have what feelings?

I don't get town vibes. I just sometimes try to keep people I like from getting launched d1.

sooooooo what do you think now

Trying to take a look at what's going on with AGar and this sure was an odd post from IV.

Love you buddy but you actually do look scummy and that's different.

VOTE: AGar

That's -2 btw

Hercules, Innocent V, Jack, and Duck give me jitters.

sooooooo what do you think now

Trying to take a look at what's going on with AGar and this sure was an odd post from IV.

odd how? i wanted to know if he still thought it Dann's switch was scummy given the response

Because why not just wait for AGar to respond rather than chiming in emptily.

Felt a lot more solve-y

[Dunnstral]

i was pretty much as quiet on xtoxm as i was on AGar and Titus

what do you think being quiet necessarily means for my alignment depending on the flip

This is a weird question for somebody to be asking about themself

[Dunnstral]

honestly I'm vibing with Agar, I can't really align my brain with mastina at all and I would want to give her a pass and say she's not caught up, but at this point everyone has told her that and she is willfully ignoring it. Sometimes you just gotta vote scummy people and not make excuses for them. I feel the same way about ABR, I feel the same way about Xtoxm, I think they both reacted poorly to their wagons. I'll vote any of those three. I'll vote Ythan as well. That's where I'm at. If this day continues I will just keep sorting, I am not really in a hurry to end it but it seems to have intensified, so that's the four people I would vote in atm.

This is a town post

Winter flakes doesn't look scummy to me from the past few pages. I guess this is a difference in tone reading.

it is? can you talk to me more about it

It cuts through the noise, tells us where he stands and where he's willing to vote, and it's something I agree with

I don't think everyone in that group he listed is town

[Dunnstral]

i cant find the exchange in our disc but auro said you felt understated or something compared to wf/whats hes used to and suggested i prod you a bit

Every other post Xtoxm makes is "aura said ___"

i kinda stopped caring and made that clear
pb/fl are busy anyway

Why are you not capable of playing the game on your own?

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral is fairly low activity, but I still think this is Dunn as town.

I'm not though (low activity)

[Dunnstral]

Oka is a like a lightning rod for thread activity/engagement

That was the intent with the circle lol

That's not the way I've been playing the game, or viewing it

why the FUCK are people townreading him

Because he's pretty transparently town in the content he has posted.

No... he really isn't

And we continually wagon other people around him

[Dunnstral]

ugh sorry guys I don’t know what the best way to get back into this is, I’m so far behind at this point and don’t have the motivation to read the last 50 pages

You don't need to read it

[Dunnstral]

Oka is a like a lightning rod for thread activity/engagement

That was the intent with the circle lol

That's not the way I've been playing the game, or viewing it

Hence this is not reflected in the post lol

OK

You think the top posters are doing that? Because I did not notice this

[Dunnstral]

ythan - he had one post that pinged me 728

"You are not authorized to read this topic"

This was probably approved by the rest of his team before-hand.

[Dunnstral]

I voted you at daystart based on a legitimate ping, but clearly that's not some indictment of your slot, it's the first page. it was a fine vote, it was a fine place to pressure

No dude I think you're lying sorry

Also to have them at the bottom of your reads for this post with no other explanation is weak

[Dunnstral]

dunn you remember this from last year drink hop is towwwwwwn

I don't remember

Also the premise seems silly

[Dunnstral]

FWIW, I think I noticed an issue with the [ post ] tags earlier in this game but chugged ahead anyways. I don't remember where but I'm pretty sure one of mine directed to another thread.

Yeah I saw that but it wasn't a slip

You used the tags wrong so you went to post # whatever of all time made on the site, you'll notice it was like a 2006 post

[Dunnstral]

Essentially, I'm not even arguing these point to scum!xtoxm. While I do think xtoxm has decent equity to flip scum, I would not be at all surprised if he flips town. All I'm saying is that the repeated assertions that xtoxm is definitively town are bunk, based on nothing concrete, and its delusional to keep repeating such a statement as fact. xtoxm is null at best. scummy at worst.

Very well said

[Dunnstral]

If xtoxm flips scum:

Spoiler: people who moved off xtoxm and onto abr

VOTE: ABR

VOTE: abr

VOTE: ABR

VOTE: abr

VOTE: ABR

oh fuck this is so good
VOTE: ABR

Spoiler: Latest Votecount

A000142: Factorial numbers: n! = 1*2*3*4*...*n (order of symmetric group S_n, number of permutations of n letters).

1, 1, 2, 6, 24, 120, 720, 5040, 40320, 362880, 3628800, 39916800, 479001600, 6227020800, 87178291200, 1307674368000, 20922789888000, 355687428096000, 6402373705728000, 121645100408832000, 2432902008176640000, 51090942171709440000, 1124000727777607680000

Link

Vote Count 1.19

Xtoxm

(7): Dunnstral, Dannflor, unwnd, OkaPoka, DrippingGoofball, innocentvillager, Albert B. Rampage

AGar

(4): Ythan, mastina, the worst, Hopkirk

Cephrir

(2): Almost50, Titus

mastina

(1): AGar

Ythan

(1): hercule

Dannflor

(1): Winter Flakes

Not Voting

(2): Xtoxm, Cephrir

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for January 29, 5:00 PM PST, in (expired on 2021-01-29 21:00:00).

Dann, Unwnd, Okapoka have since rejoined the Xtoxm wagon

Hopkirk, Cephrir, The Worst have not

my take is that if Xtoxm is scum this looks bad for the latter group and we should be investigating more

Along with:
-soft defense from unwnd (not scumreading it, just acknowledging it)
-hard defense from mastina
-whatever Ythan is doing
-The thing with ABR that he got voted for (I still think not S-S due to that)
-Agar being a popular counterwagon (could mean nothing, depending on who is pushing him, could be scum angling for a counterwagon)

[Dunnstral]

fuck it too many people have tmi'd xtoxm as town and literally not one of them can explain why he is town

mastina is the closest but her best argument boils down to xtoxm wouldn't play so shit as scum

UNVOTE:

I don't agree with this, but who do you think are the ones who tmi xtoxm as town

[Dunnstral]

I think xtoxm is still scum.

If we're giving him a day for claim then we're not getting abr in the meantime

[Dunnstral]

I don't really do the 'I can never trust this person' thing

DGB feels vaguely good but don't trust me to read there.

JV gets scumread a lot when he's town and this game hasn't moved past that point yet, so I don't suspect him (this is a null read)

Hercule looks genuinely towny now that we've moved past the early stuff

Titus, A50, ABR, I have no idea.

Never played with Ythan, keeping an eye out here now that IV has cased them

IV looks more natural after making that case and some other stuff. Couple of weird posts.

the worst is unimpressive

OkaPoka I'm trusting other people that he's town. I don't have any problems with them.

Hopkirk looks like town to me. I've seen them upset before in a game. This anger did feel overblown a bit though.

Unwnd I talked about and I didn't like his push on hopkirk. 762 feels out of character for unwnd and frankly scummy; also I thought it was talking about me for reasons but then they threw me into a would vote list without reasons so.

Winter Flakes: What do they mean by 1242? I don't think this game is that confusing. Otherwise I was townleaning them and wasn't convinced by the push against them

Xtoxm: It feels like they're not capable of posting unless they have their team behind them. Not sure what that means. Otherwise I was thinking playstyle clash but I'm not really a fan, hence my vote.

Dannflor: Pressure here in the future will be worthwhile. Exchanged banter and asked a few questions, and joined a few wagons. I don't think joining wagons is scummy, though.

New notes:

Dannflor looks more engaged, ABR has negative interaction with Xtoxm, JV/Mastina looks weird still, OkaPoka looks like town, The Worst looked better but has bad associations with xtoxm if xtoxm is scum

[Dunnstral]

if we aren't yeeting xtoxm today we are yeeting xtoxm never until lylo just want to make that clear

Let's not act like it's beyond him to fakeclaim tracker

Or to actually be tracker, but scum

Why would we leave him until the end of the game based off of that claim

[Dunnstral]

if we aren't yeeting xtoxm today we are yeeting xtoxm never until lylo just want to make that clear

Let's not act like it's beyond him to fakeclaim tracker

Or to actually be tracker, but scum

Why would we leave him until the end of the game based off of that claim

That's why we make the judgement call today dunnstral

I don't like the all-or-nothing mindset

There are slots I won't be willing to touch while xtoxm remains unflipped, however.

[Dunnstral]

I'm willing to reconsider xtoxm tomorrow, but not to let him go until limlo, and not to elim someone who has associate tells/anti-tells with xtoxm

That means no abr, no dgb, imo

[Dunnstral]

really I just meant anti-tells, I don't care about associate tells

[Dunnstral]

I always assumed it was the team pt and this revelation does nothing for me

[Dunnstral]

I'm willing to reconsider xtoxm tomorrow, but not to let him go until limlo, and not to elim someone who has associate tells/anti-tells with xtoxm

That means no abr, no dgb, imo

I don't really want to vote for Agar or Titus either

Someone can try to convince me on Agar, I guess

Who else?