TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

[hercule]

yoooo I was really excited for this to start and wrote an intro post this morning while I was hyped up on coffee and a fresh town flip but

now, thanks to an internet service provider who won’t be named (AT&T) i’m having a wifi outage so here I am assembling furniture on a friday night

i’ll vibe in the thread on mobile some but i’m already not really liking the experience so probably will be around more tmro

cheers happy to be here, i’m sure i’ll get a chance to introduce myself more

[hercule]

super is suspicious of Ythan for not reading my post yet considering there’s like 3 posts to read.

VOTE: Ythan

[hercule]

i found mobile mode and it’s entirely underwhelming

[hercule]

I actually have read your post it's what I was shrugging at.

ok she did have a fair point though - why did you feel the need to comment that you had not read my post instead of just reading it when it takes like 30 seconds tops

[hercule]

I actually have read your post it's what I was shrugging at.

ok she did have a fair point though - why did you feel the need to comment that you had not read my post instead of just reading it when it takes like 30 seconds tops

Because I'm at work and I responded first to the short highly visible post then at the bottom of the page and directed by name toward me first.

I mean I’m not going to make a mountain of this but it’s still odd that you knew what he was talking about and took the time to explain you hadn’t read it instead of, you know, just reading it.

[hercule]

oh my meme worked Hercule is actually town
yeeet

i mean yes but based on what?

[hercule]

I actually have read your post it's what I was shrugging at.

ok she did have a fair point though - why did you feel the need to comment that you had not read my post instead of just reading it when it takes like 30 seconds tops

Because I'm at work and I responded first to the short highly visible post then at the bottom of the page and directed by name toward me first.

I mean I’m not going to make a mountain of this but it’s still odd that you knew what he was talking about and took the time to explain you hadn’t read it instead of, you know, just reading it.

You say you're not but you're still pressing it. Do you think it's alignment indicative? Specifically in a scum direction?

I think it’s a good enough reason to vote someone atm!

[hercule]

VOTE: ythan

why

[hercule]

period

[hercule]

lmao i’m such a spammer even on mobile. 14 days. can’t burn myself out yet. be back in a bit

[hercule]

I actually have read your post it's what I was shrugging at.

ok she did have a fair point though - why did you feel the need to comment that you had not read my post instead of just reading it when it takes like 30 seconds tops

Because I'm at work and I responded first to the short highly visible post then at the bottom of the page and directed by name toward me first.

I mean I’m not going to make a mountain of this but it’s still odd that you knew what he was talking about and took the time to explain you hadn’t read it instead of, you know, just reading it.

You say you're not but you're still pressing it. Do you think it's alignment indicative? Specifically in a scum direction?

I think it’s a good enough reason to vote someone atm!

I'm not asking about how good a reason you think it is. Walk me through how you arrived at that vote.

You did something that didn’t quite make sense in my brain and then I voted you

[hercule]

you know, i am remembering that this forum makes a habit of responding to multiple posts in one post but you’re just gonna have to bear with me tonight

[hercule]

VOTE: ythan

why

VOTE: hercule

Already nervous.

first of all, i’m asking questions because i’m used to generating a fuck ton of content early on, though the pacing of these games so far is much slower than i anticipated

secondly, what part of that post implies nervousness to you?

[hercule]

you know, i am remembering that this forum makes a habit of responding to multiple posts in one post but you’re just gonna have to bear with me tonight

don't worry

best friend

, plenty of people split up their post into multiple posts

just dont be the person who posts as they catch up because everyone will want to strangle you even if ur a cute anime girl

wait a second...

[hercule]

i genuinely believe koba would tell you to buddy me but i kind of want to tr you for actually saying it out loud LOL

[hercule]

it’s beautiful i’m so pocketed

[hercule]

now i just need to pocket a setup spec nerd and we can fusion dance to create the holy triangle of scumhunting, setup spec, and chicken

a truly unstoppable juggernaut

i feel like you’re calling dibs on chicken and i really think that it should be up for discussion

[hercule]

ur so impeached @Oka

[hercule]

ur so impeached @Oka

The equivalent of nervous laughter.

are you expecting me to take this seriously? genuine q

side bar: i was hoping the phenomenon of people just posting a single thought or two and then dipping for a few hours was a phenomenon reserved for the newbie game i played on this site but alas

[hercule]

ironically this pacing is probably way more healthy than what i’m used to but it’s so boring

[hercule]

hercule you mentioned that you were really excited to get this game started this morning, does your enthusiasm vary by alignment at all?

by extension is your activity generally similar (and I assume high) as both alignments?

honestly no idea i haven’t flipped scum in like 6 months

on the whole i generally dread being scum but it’s been so long it would be a nice change of pace

[hercule]

ironically this pacing is probably way more healthy than what i’m used to but it’s so boring

I'd probably be way more hyper but I have a graduate school application due in 2 hours I'm procrastinating

yo fair enough good luck with that! petapan said it can be dead on the weekends so i’m sure it will pick up

[hercule]

yeah fair enough, peta pinged us on discord this morning with the start time so i was anticipating it but i never saw where that was stated anywhere, good point

[hercule]

hello gamers, good news. my internet is back and I am brewing coffee. I will soon achieve my final form

[hercule]

@hercule - are you an alt of anyone? you read like an alt of someone

reading thru the game rn - uhh I mean I am not an alt of anyone on mafiascum. My homesite I play on is epicmafia, my account there is called shady or shady12. I've played one mafiascum game and it was a newbie game.

[hercule]

I've been playing forum mafia for almost exactly one year now, I've prob played at least 15 games by now total? if that helps any

[hercule]

maybe a little less. anyway. this is where the coffee has kicked in LOL back to the thread

[hercule]

they're making towny noises and want people to townread them so I'm obliging! i'll work out if I'm wrong later. Where u at on them?

maybe town? idk I'm more in a wait-and-see kinda mode. I vaguely liked his real time interaction with me just because it felt easy for him and unforced. but he really seems like a player I need to watch develop over a longer period of time especially to see if he maintains the same level of excitement and activity that he claims is emblematic of his town game

I was a little curious about your initial town read just because hercule has no meta on this site and the "excited hyperposter" poster persona is not one I've come to see as more town than not, in fact I think a lot of scum players default to that style at least at the start of the game in order to cover their weaknesses -- this is kind of a similar thought to unwnd's read on innocent villager. Anyway, I was wondering why you were so quick on the read given hercule could be a very experienced player and it didn't seem you had any history with them

that's briefly what I thought when I voted you and then I was like... nah that's probably stupid and voted ythan

it wasn't that deep beyond me having a moment of hesitation reading your posts and then just deciding to shelve it for later instead

I think hercule is an easy town read to make and I suppose could be town

but specifically I was stopped at your posts just because I know you as someone who tends to go below the surface level and then go a little deeper

granted page 1 but yknow

agreeing with this and liking Dann's thought process.
i'm feeling hercule is easy to townbin but also maybe

too easy

for scum to just townbin. slight eh on the worst

time to see what read hectic posting in the discord earlier

well since you have commented on this already, I had taken some notes that I also really liked Dann's thought process here. I think they are my top townread atm, I noticed the natural seeming progression from #121 to #147, aka they asked a question but it was with intent to follow-up, and it felt genuine. I also think his approach of wariness to me is good because that's how I approach slots I don't have meta on - assume high scumrange. And I also agree that one of the slots that townread me off the bat is probably scum considering how many there were with similar reasons, I marked innocentvillager #87 or xtoxm #127 or the worst #140 as possible TMI type reads

[hercule]

@hercule - are you an alt of anyone? you read like an alt of someone

reading thru the game rn - uhh I mean I am not an alt of anyone on mafiascum. My homesite I play on is epicmafia, my account there is called shady or shady12. I've played one mafiascum game and it was a newbie game.

hm, i'm not sure i buy it. i'm getting strong vibes that you're an alt of this guy: https://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist. ... le&u=33678

If you're joking it missed the mark for me, maybe that's some known troll or something LOL

if you're being serious well... oka can prob back me up from his teammate dkkoba who plays there too

[hercule]

oh dude I totally fucked those post links up lmaoooo rip

[hercule]

@hercule - are you an alt of anyone? you read like an alt of someone

reading thru the game rn - uhh I mean I am not an alt of anyone on mafiascum. My homesite I play on is epicmafia, my account there is called shady or shady12. I've played one mafiascum game and it was a newbie game.

hm, i'm not sure i buy it. i'm getting strong vibes that you're an alt of this guy: https://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist. ... le&u=33678

If you're joking it missed the mark for me, maybe that's some known troll or something LOL

if you're being serious well... oka can prob back me up from his teammate dkkoba who plays there too

if anyone ask if i'm serious i'm happy to explain whether a comment is serious or whether i was joking, then proceed to explain and ruin the joke.
i was joking. i linked someone who was going to be on our team mafia team last year but had to sub out before they could start. i am accepting that you are who you say you are and anything else i've said casting doubt on your identitity is memeing.

ahh yes nice, a joke towards me when I'm prob the only person who wouldn't get it

[hercule]

Hectic's reads (heavily reworded to avoid quoting)
-townpings from 80 from Ythan and was vibing with DGB's attacks earlier (nice)

I want to follow up on this because I have been scumleaning Ythan a bit for saying they were "vibing with DGB." when DGB did nothing to vibe with?? I am pretty sure their posts to that point of the game were just intentionally provoking me, whereas Ythan later said they were just voting me for RVS so it seemed like they were just buddying with DGB. Can you explain what Hectic genuinely liked about the posts? Maybe I am missing something

[hercule]

he thinks he liked ythan because they were vibing on pooky you as your first two posts were a bit nervous and it was a good attack to put you under pressure if you were already nervous as scum
i'mma gonna go read back and see what he means

I distinctly remember DGB's first 3 posts to be contentless except to provoke me, and they never bothered answering questions in response to the point that I ultimately just ignored them. I think it's most likely just a reaction test but it made me sus that Ythan was "vibing" with them unless they were also just trying to get more reactions?? It felt more like a buddying attempt to me, like haha yeah we are both voting the same person wow we are towny haha such vibes

[hercule]

the vibe he got from DGB was how she was attacking you in particular

maybe yeah, to me it depends on what they got out of the push. still not fully caught up yet just wanted to talk about this while it was fresh on my mind

[hercule]

whereas Ythan later said they were just voting me for RVS

Where the hell did I say this?????

well judging by this reaction maybe I misinterpreted, one sec I will quote.

[hercule]

Just do what feels right and folks will deal with it. Here watch.

VOTE: hercule

I love this one less but we shall see what we see

hercule you mentioned that you were really excited to get this game started this morning, does your enthusiasm vary by alignment at all?

by extension is your activity generally similar (and I assume high) as both alignments?

dann my man please circle back to this after herc replies because I know you're better than this question in isolation

Rvs is a thing WE KNOW THIS

first of all I am very proud of myself for successful multi-quoting

but you posted this one post after the worst commented on your bad vote on me, so I assumed you were giving an explanation for your actions. I guess you may have been referring to the post in the middle but it was about someone else so I assumed you were replying to the one directly mentioning you

[hercule]

how are you reading Ythan and DGB @Herc?

I don't see the townreads on Ythan that others have suggested, they're firmly in my POE. I'm on page 9 of reading the thread, if DGB hasn't posted anything else then I would just put them as null atm

[hercule]

To expand on Ythan, I think they over-reacted to my early push on them, I was just poking around and it was page 1, like it's not that serious, and they turned it into a full-blown OMGUS and then said they were "vibing" with someone who basically was just posting nonsense into the thread, in a way that seemed like it was just in self-defense. Most charitable reading of DGB's posts to that point in the game was reaction test, I don't see how you vibe with a reaction test. That's ridiculous to me. I think it's plausible that scum!Ythan saw it as an easy way to make an entrance into the thread, something they could take a bite out of

[hercule]

How do you vibe with someone's whose only points are that I'm a) nervous (i'm not) and b) lying about being bored?? LMAO like get out of here with that

[hercule]

How do you vibe with someone's whose only points are that I'm a) nervous (i'm not) and b) lying about being bored?? LMAO like get out of here with that

vibing on sus of you?

I mean I feel like that's not really strong enough right, you have to actually evaluate what people are saying. Does town really just latch on to whoever is pushing on the person who was pushing on them without reading the merits of the case? Seems more like a scum mindset to me

in regards to your reply that you posted while I was submitting:

Ok let me try to elaborate on this as clearly as I can and not just coffee-post

To me, there are a couple of things that led me to reading this as a buddy attempt. Let's look at the timeline.

1. I push on Ythan at beginning of the day, nothing serious my teammate Super just said she thought Ythan's comment about not reading my post was off, I agreed, so I pushed it a bit

2. Ythan's response is to basically attack me for daring to push on them, leading to them OMGUS voting me.

3. DGB comes in with what I consider to be a basically nonsense push. I guess I have the insight that I am town and am not nervous, but they basically were accusing me of my tone being scummy. Best case scenario, they just can't read my tone because I come from a different playstyle and site. Neutral case, they are just reaction testing me. Worst case, scum motivated. At this moment in time, it seems to me to just be a reaction test considering how they didn't follow up or respond to questionings. They appear to just be seeking a reaction from me. Fair enough, that's null to me. I will read more of them later.

4. Ythan says they are vibing with DGB. It pinged me because I feel that to any objective observer, DGB's push was fluff. There is no content there to interact or vibe with. Therefore, the only thing Ythan can be vibing with is the simple fact they are voting me. But I don't feel that vibing with someone who is voting the person who pushed on you is really a town mindset? It felt to me like Ythan was just trying to buddy DGB for the mere fact they were voting me and to try to gain some footing in the game.

That's the entirety of my read and I don't think I can explain it any better. Maybe the use of the word "vibe" just threw me off because I was so not vibing with DGB. I thought DGB's push was so blatantly fake so it's hard for me to imagine anyone vibing with it

edit: o lord more posts, uhhh ythan has known them for 12 years ok idk what that is supposed to mean

edit: a ringer? idk who you are referring to we are all friends from epicmafia. petapan has been reading the game and has a few reads, super was reading last night and will today, spf prob will today, I am going to read their games today too #4/4towngods

[hercule]

i feel like so many posts came in while I was posting that my post is now incoherent

[hercule]

was it really a case?

the merits of the case?

in rvs? push yeah, but i don't think they'd call it a case either?

i've been told one of your teammates is one of the best all time town players on mafia universe, can they bring in the solve?

mm yeah that's more of a turn of phrase I was using than actually saying they were casing me

ahh you must be referring to spf I won't comment on that cuz I think I can scumhunt just as well. but yes, you will have many eyes on this game and mafia should tremble at the thought. we will seek and destroy scum like a predator missile. the human embodiment of a quadruple drone strike. 4 town sweeps incoming

[hercule]

(i am just teasing, i am not COMPLETELY arrogant. i'm sure there are great town and scum players on this site and i don't think i am better than y'all or anything.)

[hercule]

i should probably comment that i don't have a read on DGB whatsoever and kind of liked the vibes from ythan since i'm not sure if i said that before anytime

SPF i've been told is VERY good. i'm looking forward to hearing their reads, are they agreeing with you right now or have they not weighed in?

she usually sleeps til like 3pm lmao, only person awake rn is petapan who I asked for reads on the ppl he said pregame he can metaread.

which, i guess i can out:

- doesn't like winter flake's posts, said he will obvtown as town and hasn't yet. my take: ??? none yet
- iv towny. my take: maybe?
- dunn trying too hard / most posts don't actually say anything, which i don't know if i agree with. kind of liked their thought process earlier w.r.t the easy trs on my slot but it did more or less just echo dann. i liked their interaction with iv, calling iv out for making up reads and then iv admitted it, so that's proof of a genuine thought process that was correct at least

[hercule]

wait are Winter Flakes and unwnd the same, right? yeah? why are you posting on two accounts LOL pls

[hercule]

wait are Winter Flakes and unwnd the same, right? yeah? why are you posting on two accounts LOL pls

i think one is unwnd and one is uncrowned?

ok I think I got mixed up in my head. LOL. I thought unwnd was just uncrowned with some letters removed almsnkflakjsnd

[hercule]

how are you reading Ythan and DGB @Herc?

I don't see the townreads on Ythan that others have suggested, they're firmly in my POE. I'm on page 9 of reading the thread, if DGB hasn't posted anything else then I would just put them as null atm

you have a POE on page 10?

yeah I mean, I'm constantly building a POE. I just start with the playerlist and move names up and down as I see fit. As of the time of that post and still, Ythan's name was at the very bottom of my list, meaning he is in the POE for me. Obviously it's in flux. There's a section of like 8 names I haven't even moved from the middle nor do I feel urgency to do so

[hercule]

the POE to me is... let me see if I can explain it

if you order everyone in the game from towniest to scummiest, the POE is everyone under the line you draw at the exact point where you could chop everyone under it and not lose. So hopefully it contains all the scum. But it's just a tool for boxing wolves in, obviously a deepwolf would be someone outside of it.

[hercule]

so my process is usually just ordering and re-ordering the player list until I have tiers I am comfortable with, aka locktown, think they're town, have said towny things, all the way down to scummy. and then just re-evaluating it and re-evaluating it and building consensus / bouncing my ordering off others

[hercule]

ythan what are your strongest feels at the moment about the game or specific players

I haven't really looked at any isos or anything yet which is sorta necessary for me in a large (and this is my first large I think unless sunny was large since my long hiatus) and the only big pings I've gotten off individual posts are some Hercules things but it remains to be seen if I'm tunneling and I got a bad vibe from Wurst for support of Herc I couldn't really fathom.

I think I like Hercules even more than the name I picked LOL

so far the only thing I remember you saying about my slot was that you felt I was pushing you uncharitably at daystart. Is that your big ping?

[hercule]

above post was @Oka (as is this post) because i didn't reload the page.

do you & koba have any thoughts on herc? you've played together a bit

i'll read IV properly now

have you ever played with radiantcowbells and his megafans

i've played a few games with radiantcowbells and have on at least 2 occasions discussed them with people irl (when they naturally came up in the discussion). i assume you had more to ask here based on my response right?

hercule = radiantcowbells

dkkoba = megafan

not to say hercule has the same playstyle as rc but the aura of infatuation is there

:3

<3

[hercule]

so my process is usually just ordering and re-ordering the player list until I have tiers I am comfortable with, aka locktown, think they're town, have said towny things, all the way down to scummy. and then just re-evaluating it and re-evaluating it and building consensus / bouncing my ordering off others

i'm comfortable writing this off as a stylistic/terminology thing i guess

ok well can you explain to me what originally made you ask and what I said that made you consider the matter resolved? I'm still not fully clear here

[hercule]

and here we see DGB continuing to evade us

Who is "us?" Your scum team?

petapan said something along the lines of DGB being known for tunneling random dumb sh/t when I asked him recently and I'm wondering if this kind of material is NAI despite being objectively scummy fmpov. like please what is this push lmao

[hercule]

ythan what are your strongest feels at the moment about the game or specific players

I haven't really looked at any isos or anything yet which is sorta necessary for me in a large (and this is my first large I think unless sunny was large since my long hiatus) and the only big pings I've gotten off individual posts are some Hercules things but it remains to be seen if I'm tunneling and I got a bad vibe from Wurst for support of Herc I couldn't really fathom.

I think I like Hercules even more than the name I picked LOL

so far the only thing I remember you saying about my slot was that you felt I was pushing you uncharitably at daystart. Is that your big ping?

That's a ridiculous characterization and isn't helping your plight of brunt suspected by

ME

I'm trying to sort you here mate, I don't really care what your thoughts on my slot are. Do you want to provide another characterization?

[hercule]

I should rephrase - I don't care if you suspect me - I do care about your thought process

[hercule]

@Ythan if my characterization is ridiculous, I feel like you should easily be able to provide an alternative (and correct fypov) narrative of what your "big pings" are

[hercule]

I'm perfectly content to do that and will do so momentarily. I still call your mischaracterization insensible.

alrighty

[hercule]

@Ythan if my characterization is ridiculous, I feel like you should easily be able to provide an alternative (and correct fypov) narrative of what your "big pings" are

from your experience is not being able to provide an alternative narrative actually scum indicative? i always kind of characterize scum as being able to justify anything as they aren't bound to one specific motivation. technically town aren't, but it's rarer for them to lie about it

yeah 100%? I'm surprised that's even up for debate. If he's town he knows his thought process, and has a basis to say I'm mischaracterizing him, and can simply state it.

it's something that always resonates with me, when someone tries to define my actions in a certain way that doesn't fit what actually occurred (from my point of view, which is the only POV that I have 100% truth for), I want to set the record straight. So I am interested in his claim that I am doing this to him and I want to see what his side of the story is

If he's scum he will have to make something up, which we can compare to the actual content of his posts and see if it passes the smell test. By asking him to back up his claim, I am forcing him to do so (if he's scum etc etc)

[hercule]

I'm perfectly content to do that and will do so momentarily. I still call your mischaracterization insensible.

alrighty

The implication being that illogical nonsense also tends scumward

lmaoooo coming from the person who said they were vibing with DGB this is incredible

[hercule]

@Ythan if my characterization is ridiculous, I feel like you should easily be able to provide an alternative (and correct fypov) narrative of what your "big pings" are

from your experience is not being able to provide an alternative narrative actually scum indicative? i always kind of characterize scum as being able to justify anything as they aren't bound to one specific motivation. technically town aren't, but it's rarer for them to lie about it

yeah 100%? I'm surprised that's even up for debate. If he's town he knows his thought process, and has a basis to say I'm mischaracterizing him, and can simply state it.

it's something that always resonates with me, when someone tries to define my actions in a certain way that doesn't fit what actually occurred (from my point of view, which is the only POV that I have 100% truth for), I want to set the record straight. So I am interested in his claim that I am doing this to him and I want to see what his side of the story is

If he's scum he will have to make something up, which we can compare to the actual content of his posts and see if it passes the smell test. By asking him to back up his claim, I am forcing him to do so (if he's scum etc etc)

just checking


(more seriously, i kind of misread your intent when i was asking this question. i was essentially asking are scum more likely to have a

good

justification for their thought processes- and whether town are more/less likely to have good justifications. if you mean you can't see any thought process, which is what the post i'm responding to you now reads as, then my question becomes less relevant)

pedit - i phrased that badly because i should probably sleep soon but i think the meaning comes out ok? having a

bad

looking explanation comes from town more than scum (albeit idk how much this is compared to the % a random slot is town)

to be honest I don't really see the point of debating this before he has even replied

[hercule]

I'm perfectly content to do that and will do so momentarily. I still call your mischaracterization insensible.

alrighty

The implication being that illogical nonsense also tends scumward

lmaoooo coming from the person who said they were vibing with DGB this is incredible

Still not sure who tf you are lol

I don't know what this post means?

[hercule]

how come you didn't mention Oka's when I asked but did when he asked specifically? had you not looking at the context of his vote until then? if so then answering me with a none stand out feels like an incomplete answer to me.. i feel kind of sad if he's worth responding to and i'm not

this was IV. i should sleep sooner rather than later. i got up early because i was excited to start playing and hectic had been pinging me over discord with thoughts at like 6 and i wanted to get him and flopz online to talk at some point and meme around which was fun

what time zone are you in?

[hercule]

haha just kidding I could have just read "Britain" in the location!

[hercule]

Spoiler: P1-10

I think we're friends now. This has been a magical moment, thank you.

Xtoxm you'd better believe I'm coming at you for rolling scum without me.

Very bad LAMIST here duckyboi, definitely not confbias here definitely not.

lmao i’m such a spammer even on mobile. 14 days. can’t burn myself out yet. be back in a bit

You barely spammed at all...

VOTE: ythan

why

VOTE: hercule

Already nervous.

Actually agree with a vote there, but not entirely because they're nervous. Their posts just scream like they're trying to appear townie more than a town would.

it’s beautiful i’m so pocketed

I genuinely hate this. I don't think Oka/Hercule can be SvS though, could be wrong however.

hercule you mentioned that you were really excited to get this game started this morning, does your enthusiasm vary by alignment at all?

by extension is your activity generally similar (and I assume high) as both alignments?

honestly no idea i haven’t flipped scum in like 6 months

on the whole i generally dread being scum but it’s been so long it would be a nice change of pace

You 180 the question to boast about how you haven't flipped scum in a long time, and thus act LAMIST.

VOTE: the worst

VOTE: ythan

Sup wit dis?

changed my mind

decided I valued attempting to start a wagon more than voting ducky

In all of half a minute?

yep

Dann probably Town for this tbh

VOTE: ythan

why

VOTE: hercule

Already nervous.

Hercule town is my only non fake read and I LOVE that you're voting there

Just because your read counters another does NOT mean that you're right and they're wrong, quit shading people for having opposing reads.

Hectic's reads (heavily reworded to avoid quoting)
-Likes Dann's end of p6 posting (agreed) and the thought process between the two votes
- finds 22 from herc odd where he says he doesn't want to make a mountain out of the issue, then continues extending that conversation (eh, i'd see that as nai or very very lightly town leading thinking about incentives)
-jacko's friendly entrance/reaching out to several players for harmless banter is a slightly scum indicative entrance (i skimmed over this post initially, finding myself agreeing a bit i think? the vibes don't seem on point)
-Agar's questioning on Dann felt fake/couldn't understand what response Agar expected other than 'yep'/not looking for underlying reasons (agree, not a massive fan of agar but he also didn't do anything to look townie in those two posts tbh. reviewing gave me a vibe of like not really thinking about how people would look at the posts? flagging to interact with)
-townpings from 80 from Ythan and was vibing with DGB's attacks earlier (nice)
-the worst's 89 felt forced. hectic thought xtoxm was just thinking out loud and wasn't voicing a townlean. Some other good posts from TW but fakeable from hectic's pov as a lot of mech related (not sure what hectic means about the mech part. 89 does feel kind of weirdly reactive i agree. i also don't like the shade on dann in 97 that i noticed while skimming to find 89 in the iso).

VOTE: Jacko

Have you actually played with me before? They're my friendos :c

jackson will know i'm watching him either way (not in a creepy way jackson...)

VOTE: the worst

Aww I was hoping the creepy way :c
But why the duckyboi vote?

Hi. Uncrowned here.

Ythan is Town.

ABR is probably Town.

Dunnstral is probably Town.

Hopkirk's reasoning on JV's intro is reasonable, but I believe it is NAI for JV given the history between them, myself and The Worst.

I don't think a teammate reading the game is indicative of anything, but I guess I get the sentiment?

I don't think The Worst has been that awkward, I think that's just how he be sometimes.

Oh using an alt? Interesting. This entrance is a bit meh tbh from what I remember from duckys PYP. They're usually the type of player to fully explain everything, at least from memory.

CT - { }
ACT - { }
TR - { Dannflor }
TL - { A50, Hopkirk }
NR - { }
SL - { the worst, Uncrowned }
SR - { hercule }
ACS - { }
CS - { }

I don't really get the feeling that you're reading my slot in good faith.

how is answering "is your activity generally similar (and I assume high) as both alignments?" with "genuinely don't know it's been forever since i was scum, i think i would enjoy the change of pace" flipping the question 180? I... don't know what my activity level as scum would be like. How else can I answer it but conjecture? the rest just appeared to be attempts at tonereading me, which comes across flat

[hercule]

...SPEEDRUN?

Can we do this on A50 instead?

Welp, until you all see the light...

VOTE: AGar

I don't really understand this post. Did you FOS Agar here? Peta said you would be obvtown and I am not seeing it at all yet

[hercule]

Like JV probably knows I'm easier to read off of interactions as well so that's why it weirds me out that they'd pick *that* post to talk about of all things.

PEdit: I have not played with A50 before, I believe.

Regrettably, he does this a lot

I don't care for it either but unfortunately I don't think it's useful for divining his alignment

Spoiler: P1-10

I think we're friends now. This has been a magical moment, thank you.

Xtoxm you'd better believe I'm coming at you for rolling scum without me.

Very bad LAMIST here duckyboi, definitely not confbias here definitely not.

lmao i’m such a spammer even on mobile. 14 days. can’t burn myself out yet. be back in a bit

You barely spammed at all...

VOTE: ythan

why

VOTE: hercule

Already nervous.

Actually agree with a vote there, but not entirely because they're nervous. Their posts just scream like they're trying to appear townie more than a town would.

it’s beautiful i’m so pocketed

I genuinely hate this. I don't think Oka/Hercule can be SvS though, could be wrong however.

hercule you mentioned that you were really excited to get this game started this morning, does your enthusiasm vary by alignment at all?

by extension is your activity generally similar (and I assume high) as both alignments?

honestly no idea i haven’t flipped scum in like 6 months

on the whole i generally dread being scum but it’s been so long it would be a nice change of pace

You 180 the question to boast about how you haven't flipped scum in a long time, and thus act LAMIST.

VOTE: the worst

VOTE: ythan

Sup wit dis?

changed my mind

decided I valued attempting to start a wagon more than voting ducky

In all of half a minute?

yep

Dann probably Town for this tbh

VOTE: ythan

why

VOTE: hercule

Already nervous.

Hercule town is my only non fake read and I LOVE that you're voting there

Just because your read counters another does NOT mean that you're right and they're wrong, quit shading people for having opposing reads.

Hectic's reads (heavily reworded to avoid quoting)
-Likes Dann's end of p6 posting (agreed) and the thought process between the two votes
- finds 22 from herc odd where he says he doesn't want to make a mountain out of the issue, then continues extending that conversation (eh, i'd see that as nai or very very lightly town leading thinking about incentives)
-jacko's friendly entrance/reaching out to several players for harmless banter is a slightly scum indicative entrance (i skimmed over this post initially, finding myself agreeing a bit i think? the vibes don't seem on point)
-Agar's questioning on Dann felt fake/couldn't understand what response Agar expected other than 'yep'/not looking for underlying reasons (agree, not a massive fan of agar but he also didn't do anything to look townie in those two posts tbh. reviewing gave me a vibe of like not really thinking about how people would look at the posts? flagging to interact with)
-townpings from 80 from Ythan and was vibing with DGB's attacks earlier (nice)
-the worst's 89 felt forced. hectic thought xtoxm was just thinking out loud and wasn't voicing a townlean. Some other good posts from TW but fakeable from hectic's pov as a lot of mech related (not sure what hectic means about the mech part. 89 does feel kind of weirdly reactive i agree. i also don't like the shade on dann in 97 that i noticed while skimming to find 89 in the iso).

VOTE: Jacko

Have you actually played with me before? They're my friendos :c

jackson will know i'm watching him either way (not in a creepy way jackson...)

VOTE: the worst

Aww I was hoping the creepy way :c
But why the duckyboi vote?

Hi. Uncrowned here.

Ythan is Town.

ABR is probably Town.

Dunnstral is probably Town.

Hopkirk's reasoning on JV's intro is reasonable, but I believe it is NAI for JV given the history between them, myself and The Worst.

I don't think a teammate reading the game is indicative of anything, but I guess I get the sentiment?

I don't think The Worst has been that awkward, I think that's just how he be sometimes.

Oh using an alt? Interesting. This entrance is a bit meh tbh from what I remember from duckys PYP. They're usually the type of player to fully explain everything, at least from memory.

CT - { }
ACT - { }
TR - { Dannflor }
TL - { A50, Hopkirk }
NR - { }
SL - { the worst, Uncrowned }
SR - { hercule }
ACS - { }
CS - { }

I don't really get the feeling that you're reading my slot in good faith.

how is answering "is your activity generally similar (and I assume high) as both alignments?" with "genuinely don't know it's been forever since i was scum, i think i would enjoy the change of pace" flipping the question 180? I... don't know what my activity level as scum would be like. How else can I answer it but conjecture? the rest just appeared to be attempts at tonereading me, which comes across flat

It avoids answering the question, you're pushing an "unknown" answer when you could just say that you were/weren't back in the day instead of using the entire post to bloat about how townie you are.

lmao I did say how I was back in the day as well though. Not sure why you are discrediting a full and honest answer

[hercule]

k so spf and I played gameswap and gave each other a list of players to ISO, gonna paraphrase her analysis now plus some notes from our discussion:

Ythan: SPF actually townleans this slot and thought they came across relaxed and unworried about people's perception of him. also jesus christ i can't believe i have to paraphrase all this LOL. she thought #428 (holy shit i finally figured out how to properly link a post) showed an amount of concern about being right on me that drunk scum!ythan wouldn't consider posting. to me... uhhh I'm not sure. I think I could possibly have blinders on the slot from being in the interaction with them so I'll step back a bit from this for now.

DGB: spf doesn't think the angles they have taken are scum-motivated. she thinks that as mafia she would zoom in more on specific targets and hardtunnel them instead of shading everyone and re-evaluating i.e. #345. she is not that sure about this one but townleans. spf thinks she seems like the kind of person who would position themselves to lead pushes as either alignment and would prob stick to a target as scum. i think it's a bit speculative to make that much of an assumption about someone's playstyle, and spf acknowledged this when i said as much, but i am not going to go so far as to discredit her read, it seems reasonable enough to me.

Winter Flakes: spf is pinged by #177 and thinks winter is going through the motions. she thinks the reads are too broad to really get a sense of a town perspective. spf does like the pressure on A50 but said it feels stagnant and kind of like they are approaching the game from a scum!a50 standpoint rather than actively seeking the alignment. spf's verdict is null leaning scum. I actually took this opportunity to quickly ISO winter myself considering now petapan and spf have both been pinged by them, and I think this slot could certainly use some pressure. I will dive in more deeply later but I am going to vote here for now.

Xtoxm: spf thought their defense of my slot at #127 felt authentic and didn't seem like a TMI read knowing I was town, she also thought they had a sense of town entitlement (one of our fave EM buzzwords) and got good vibes from their posts. frankly I didn't even realize they only had 5 posts when I asked her to ISO them, so obviously we both agree we need to see more.

innocent: spf townleans, was a little bothereed they outed a bunch of reads that they didn't provide reasoning for but thought the reasoning they did have sounded genuine. also liked that they were changing their stances a lot and updating their reads, felt that the slot was chaotic in the way that town who isn't playing with an agenda would be. i can agree with this, petapan also thought they were towny. I originally had them low in my reads list based on the fact they were one of the slots that seemed to TR me a bit too easily, but spf kind noted in her ISO that was a common pattern for them, and spf and peta both tr them, so this slot is gaining towncred for me

VOTE: Winter Flakes

[hercule]

I just realized we assumed the preferred pronoun of DGB to be she but if that's wrong please correct me

[hercule]

I just realized we assumed the preferred pronoun of DGB to be she but if that's wrong please correct me

I accept all pronouns.

Who is SPF? Sun Protection Factor what?

sorry that's my teammate, staypositivefriend. I'm used to the shorthand. she's a beast though!

[hercule]

Also yes I am approaching the game from a Scum!A50 standpoint because that is my view. Why would I approach it otherwise? Seems counter-intuitive to me.

staypositivefriend's point was that she read you as basically **starting** with A50 scum and reading the game that way rather than striving to ascertain their alignment. I'm not sure if I can clarify it anymore than that. Basically she is suspecting you of having an agenda w.r.t. A50

[hercule]

@Albert can you elaborate on your FOS on Agar? Or at a minimum the reasoning behind your desire to pressure them?

pedit: lol what do you mean your vote is chosen from a hat? if you don't reveal any of your thought process how do you expect to be read? do you think it's >50 rand that Agar is scum? what do you make of his reaction if it's solely for pressure?

[hercule]

do you think this is closer to your usual town style?

Yeah, this is more my style when I'm taking things a bit more seriously, I'd say.

has hectic got much experience with you/any games you think are similar? i'll probably ask him anyway.

Also yes I am approaching the game from a Scum!A50 standpoint because that is my view. Why would I approach it otherwise? Seems counter-intuitive to me.

staypositivefriend's point was that she read you as basically **starting** with A50 scum and reading the game that way rather than striving to ascertain their alignment. I'm not sure if I can clarify it anymore than that. Basically she is suspecting you of having an agenda w.r.t. A50

what's the scum motivation there? I think A50 is a strong slot right and the argument doesn't strike me as though WF is making it expecting to see a big wagon from just what they've said? Am I missing some of SPF's thoughts here?

did you read the entirety of the post I made with her reads? just asking so I know the context of this post you just made before we continue

[hercule]

@Albert can you elaborate on your FOS on Agar? Or at a minimum the reasoning behind your desire to pressure them?

pedit: lol what do you mean your vote is chosen from a hat? if you don't reveal any of your thought process how do you expect to be read? do you think it's >50 rand that Agar is scum? what do you make of his reaction if it's solely for pressure?

It's not my responsibility to help you read me. My style is aggressive. Yes I think AGar should be pushed and I will make my decision later. His posts speak for itself, what more can I say about them that you can't think about for yourself?

I disagree with that mentality, it's town's responsibility to express their mindset as much as possible and show that they are solving the game from a town perspective. Being found as town is even more important than finding scum! It's like step 1 in the town booklet. Establish yourself as town.

[hercule]

i'm pretty interested in these slots atm, how are you two feeling them (ABR/herc)

JacksonVirgo
AGar
the worst
Almost50
Titus
uncrowned (ish)
xtoxm (remember 1 post)

snap reads would be:

JV: didn't love their entrance wallpost, I questioned them on it and got no response. Agreed that their exit felt overly AtE-y but not going to sort someone based on that considering possible external factors, wouldn't say they have towntold yet.

AGar: uhhh to be honest this is one of the slots I want to ISO, not sure what to make of the wagon on them, not sure what to make of Ceph's case on their one post and then their countercase, gut tells me it's not TvT

the worst: ive been soft townleaning them most of the game, i liked their intro despite maybe having too easy of a tr on me.

A50: i didn't really have a problem with his filler entrance considering it was the first 12 hours so I left him null, but still nothing they have done as really stood out to me past that

Titus: genuinely am unaware of a single thing they have said or done lmao hold on I will ISO them rq to give something. meh, mainly looks like posting for the sake of posting. not a big fan of the content

uncrowned: peta and spf both scumlean them, peta specifically didnt buy any of their townreads and thought their opening post on A50 was "really weak" to paraphrase it, this is the second path I wanted to pursue, will prob ISO in depth today. petapan expressed at beginning they would obvtown if they were town and wouldn't if they were scum and that has stuck with me because i haven't seen any glimpses of that

xtoxm: townlean, low quantity but town thought process seems to shine through regardless

[hercule]

did your team have any thoughts on the worst @herc?

haven't asked yet, for the big games we are trying to ask targeted questions to be responsible with everyone's time. is there anyone's opinion you are specifically interested in?

[hercule]

tbh I wouldn't put it past Super to randomly ISO everyone in all the games though lmfao

[hercule]

I'll letcha know

[hercule]

howdy ythan (friend)

[hercule]

so, ythan, as a quick catch-up, my teammate townreads you and I am trying to sheep her and back off your slot a bit but... it does not escape my memory that you said you were going to "momentarily" walk me through your daystart and how I mischaracterized it and then you never spoke about it again. I approach this not as an adversary but as a genuine effort to understand your thought process

pedit: i'm good. i was about to leave the thread and do "real life" things but i wanna have this convo real quick and try to clear up any misunderstanding

[hercule]

right okay, that post was nonsense to me but now it makes sense. sec i'm reading

[hercule]

yeah see my brain is not going to let this go,

I voted you at daystart based on a legitimate ping, but clearly that's not some indictment of your slot, it's the first page. it was a fine vote, it was a fine place to pressure

then you were pushing me by simply asking if it was scum indicative, I replied it was a good place to vote, which, still, is as good enough a reason as any, like. maybe it's scum indicative? there are plenty of odd things people do that don't make sense to me that end up being scum and there are those that end up being town! again, it's page 1. and your follow-up is "Walk me through how you arrived at that vote"

my characterization was that you felt I was pushing you uncharitably, i.e. you felt you were being pushed for something that you didn't consider was alignment indicative, i.e. you felt i was pushing you with some sort of agenda, which, i was, i was applying pressure

so how was my characterization ridiculous? i'm not understanding.

[hercule]

I voted you at daystart based on a legitimate ping, but clearly that's not some indictment of your slot, it's the first page. it was a fine vote, it was a fine place to pressure

No dude I think you're lying sorry

lmao this is completely impossible to work with

I don't know why you think I would decide to start the game by lying about a read my teammate said to me on voice call, that seems so needlessly intricate of a start that it strains my belief for you to even think that but here we are

[hercule]

god I am kind of coming around on town!ythan but it's triggering me haha. would scum really just counter my response to them by saying "no u r lying" if so that would be kind of iconic

[hercule]

I voted you at daystart based on a legitimate ping, but clearly that's not some indictment of your slot, it's the first page. it was a fine vote, it was a fine place to pressure

No dude I think you're lying sorry

lmao this is completely impossible to work with

I don't know why you think I would decide to start the game by lying about a read my teammate said to me on voice call, that seems so needlessly intricate of a start that it strains my belief for you to even think that but here we are

We've never spoken before this game and I have no expectations about your skill. Shrug.

i- what? so because you don't know me, something that I am obviously telling the truth about you now suspect to be a lie? based on literally what? based on your feelings of not liking to be pressured? thats literally the only thing I can think of

[hercule]

I can't force myself to give a fuck about this pointless back and forth you're so invested in sorry. There's nothing of any value in it for me.

i just get triggered when anyone spews asinine bullshit in my general direction. i will calm down in like 30 minutes. it's a character flaw

[hercule]

i just get triggered when anyone spews asinine bullshit in my general direction.

Consider the conversations you try to start then Ava what purpose they serve.

honestly, look, the way I play. anything I see that sticks out as illogical I pull on it and tug on it until it either unravels or reveals a town thought process or perspective I simply couldn't see at first. I just can't help it. that's how my brain works. I've run into a dead end with you because you either don't possess or refuse to articulate logical faculties behind your reads, so that's that. you think I am lying despite me clearly telling the truth if only for the mere fact that I would have no incentive or need to orchestrate a lie so early in the game as either alignment and due to the fact that it would simply be a strange thing to lie about. You can persist in your belief, and it's going to bother me, but it's like arguing with a Trump supporter, sometimes you just have to cut your losses.

i know this is going to come across as a bit petulant but I would rather just express my feelings at this exact moment in time when I am feeling them than try to explain them later. and i'm going to move on. legit i just have to step away for a bit. i am, as i type, self-reflecting on why this always happens to me but, rest assured, i simply cannot join a game and not get into a fight at some point so it is what it is.

[hercule]

Still not sure why you think it's so unbelievable someone would think you were being dishonest early in the game. That's not really a good point and I don't believe you honestly think it.

not me being unable to step away

it's because the basis of your read is so [redacted] - you think that I lied about being on call with my gf and her telling me your post pinged me. that's the basis of your entire refutation of my posts. and to me, that's quite obviously true, because it happened. and i don't see any logical reason to suspect it of being false.

[hercule]

I think Hercule considers being townread as a badge of honor. By denying that, you are taking away something that motivates him to keep posting. His frustration is self-serving but not in a scummy way, because I think it's such a petty thing to care about as scum

Hercule don't worry I already saved you from mental crisis two posts ago

well. i mean, yes. but. it sounds kind of belittling when you say it like that

i just think it's important when you are town to assert you are town. the best frame of reference for myself and the game is myself, it's the only true piece of information I have. ugh yeah i dunno i'm just gonna do some chores and eat lunch

[hercule]

you think that I lied about being on call with my gf and her telling me your post pinged me.

I didn't say that was a lie I said you were lying.

genuinely don't know what the difference between these two is

Honestly I don't even remember your mentioning a girlfriend lol.

well i didn't mention it because I didn't realize at the time that I would have to provide the entire fucking backstory for a single series of posts to be taken at face value

[hercule]

gonna just chime in with a couple updates from my teammates, i asked for vibe reads on the worst and A50:

petapan thought the worst started okay but wasn't impressed by total body of work, also caveated that he has no idea what his reads are

petapan thought A50 was fine and also an easy target, thought 729 felt towny, thought 737 felt like it could be a ballsy play as mafia but more likely that they are attempting to sort people by how they approach their slot

Super remembers immediately townreading the worst (interesting to me that all 3 of us tr their intro, that could be genuinely alignment indicative bc that would be a bit surprising if we are all off-base, though peta was less enthused than super and i)

Super says they are going to struggle at reading A50 because their tone feels very inexpressive (super is a big tone reader), she says she does however tr 737 and thinks that town!A50 might be an easy push for mafia because of their tone and general playstyle and is wary of ppl gunning for them

i guess it's interesting to me that they both thought A50 is an easy target for mafia to push on and that the worst had a decent intro. i don't think they confbiased themselves they were approaching it independently.

[hercule]

a50 is a lot of things but i don't think inexpressive is one of them

super wants you to know that she just finds it difficult to read their tone because it comes across very stiff to her and she doesn't know how else to explain it

side note i'm about to assemble furniture with my friend so i'll be completely unreachable for a few hours

[hercule]

howdy folks, time for my favorite activity in the entire world, which is drinking coffee and finding scum. prob gonna go through the entire playerlist and try to make a first edition tierlist, though I do also have to "work" as the kids would say

[hercule]

we're going in alphabetical order here so let's start with

Spoiler: Agar

-

Super ISO'd this slot overnight and: liked #548, felt genuine, backing away from Cephir because of their teammates felt genuine, #834 she likes the sass, #840 she thinks is really good and towny, likes the constant re-evaluation of reads (including on my own slot), thinks the effort on its own is NAI but the effort + tone combo is towny

my reads: decent intro, #529 not a bad response to wagon, now. to be honest, when looking at the ISO of AGar, I think Cephrir's post at #510 comes across more strongly than I think is reasonable to takeaway from their content at that point (3 posts)

I think AGar's response in #548 upon further analysis seems. Well I'm of two minds, on one hand I think their point-by-point defense sounds appropriate and logical but the OMGUS (and I don't even think OMGUS is necessarily bad) on Cephrir isn't striking the right note for me. Accusing Cephrir of "waiting for them to post to set this up" doesn't make sense, since they commented directly on the post itself. I know they've walked this read back by now, but basically there team just told them to back off so it's plausible their team was just like mmm yeah that's a no go don't commit to that

it's a bit difficult to parse through the notes considering I have to go find each post individually but fuck it we gotta do what we gotta do

- I agree with read on Oka
- I disagree with the comments regarding 256 being scummy, "busywork and fake solving. These are things either meant to stay in your head or your PT." is objectively true in my opinion
- comments about my 268 and 283 kind of ping me because it seems like you are going out of your way to shade me there. I had a theory about Ythan/DGB at the time that I hadn't expressed in the thread that hopkirk's teammate got opposite vibes from so I asked about it. How is that "Really trying hard to justify Ythan SR" which to that point in the thread I hadn't even mentioned yet. My initial vote was a single ping and pressure and then if you truly considered the content of my later post you would have realized it was a read I developed later - this could be a bit nitpicky though I don't think it's easy context to miss
- tripling down on sr on unwnd and I am not seeing it re: 291 mmm but you backpedaled to null so idk
- agree that DGB approached hopkirk weird and that they are objectively scummy but I'm led to believe that could just be how they play
- I like the read regarding the worst on 537 and 539, i think with 8 votes on you scum would be less critical of incoming townreads, seems more like town mindset
- regarding 578 are you referring to the most pressing thing being the wagon on you? I saw it but it was day 2 of 14 I feel I can safely assume town and even scum on the wagon is just doing it for reactions rather than push anyone over so I saw no need to get involved. I do buy this thought process from u as genuine thought
- I think it's decent logic regarding 579 and 584 from agar's pov
- agree on 586, and also would point out 600 with ABR agreeing with it, when looking at your ISO objectively I don't see anything that gives a "trying to get them to turn on each other" vibe
- agree regarding 649 i actually am gagged to see this post, considering their "case" on me was that I am LAMIST, (a term that I hate regardless, pretty sure every player on EM is LAMIST de facto, we love that shit), and yet they acknowledge it from themselves
- don't really have any comments regarding 710 except for "you do know what snap reads, are, yeah?"
- also, yes, i'm a tryhard, seems like you're trying to sell that as scum indicative? if you think it's town indicative u sure didn't mention it. if it's NAI not sure why you brought it up

Overall I find most of their notes to be reasonable, I think most of their takes I disagreed with resolved around my own slot, so that's probably a good sign in their favor considering I have TMI on that slot

I guess since they are making cases on Titus and DGB I will just ISO those two low-posting slots at this time. Then I will return to this.

i'm back after reading Titus (ISO is below)

-----

so, I think Agar actually brings the context of the thread a bit better into this read, for example, ignoring 150 and 262, although it's not like 262 has anything to respond to

yes, Titus is pretty singularly focused and their contributions are surface level at best, their interactions btwn u and ABR are a bit odd, that being said it's still early and there are possible alternative narratives for their gameplay to this point than being scum

586 is weird ya. i don't know where that read came from at all. I agree Titus can go in the POE. Or the scumpool. Or whatever the fuck you guys call it LMAO. Decent read from Agar here, especially considering their POV on their own wagon I think it makes perfect sense

-----

k now I will read DGB

k back

ok this "DGB notes" section was underwhelming I didn't need to ISO her to read this LMFAOOO I just didn't want to open it before I ISO'd so I could approach it neutrally

I didn't get any bad vibe from 667, I feel like anyone could not notice ABR's reads considering I don't think he's even outed any of substance, seems nitpicky to call it a red flag

Also I did notice that for one of your scumleans whose worst posts regard their take on my slot (like the oka/hercule teamread), u sure were quiet about that, and it begs the questions as to whether it's because it fits ur narrative

-----

continuing ISO. I think it's a decent point about Xtoxm in 521 saying the post and vote was objectively good but not pushing any further. I think it's okay to continue to be skeptical of a low-posting slot

"Can someone else read 763 and tell me if it feels bad?" i'm gonna make a note of this for when I get to unwnd, my gut is pinged a bit by the "(see: highly unlikely)" and I don't even know what the "commitment represented by the votes" means

k anywayyyy

861 is decent, I like the sass, I agree it's a bit of a nothingburger. but I will say that 871 also seems to be a nothingburger in very much the same vein that you are pushing on

1019 - why does it stink?

1019 - what part of JV's read do you "fuck with"

wew boy ok this has been an exhausting hour. I'm going to recap Agar now.

I am

townleaning

Agar. I don't think their thought process has been very difficult to follow and their reads have been easily and thoroughly checked in the thread, they're not just spewing bullshit, they make sense from their pov, especially w.r.t how I think a town should approach a wagon on them. There are some minor inconsistencies and pings I have had, but, they are outweighed by their other content. I don't particularly think they are a good wagon, and I certainly do not think they are a "fantastic" wagon

Spoiler: Titus

-

we can actually go through every single post considering there's 13. this ISO began in the middle of Agar's ISO so yeah idk you have to start there to follow my whole chain of thought

81, meh
115, some meta joke i don't get
260, logistical question, fine in a vacuum, maybe slightly dramatic but NAI to me
262, fine
265, logistical comment
267, meh
567, 569, odd that they come back just to discuss this specifically, could just happen to be first posts they saw
586, comes out of nowhere imo
589, fine
590, i don't like that their second townread of the game (600 posts in) is based on one line, because someone said the same thing as them.
605, i mean, fair enough question to ask
790, ok
1048, this post signals to me that they haven't had a lot of time so far and we can expect more content

overall I am not impressed at all by their content but I don't think anything jumps out at me as SCUM. it's more just like, yeah, meh, they're in the POE. If they continue posting like this for the whole week then they would fall farther

ok gonna go back into the Agar ISO now, this is like, connected circuits bear with me, gotta just follow my brain.

Spoiler: DGB

I genuinely hate DGB's iso right off the bat lmao. I feel like I keep making excuses for them meta-wise but sheesh. No one can tell me that they came to the conclusion OkaPoka and I were partners organically.

344 is interesting in context, if that's not something Titus even does then 260 comes across more performatively.

i hate 346 and 347, actually I remember hating 347 and I don't know if I ever mentioned it. Doesn't "caught for the wrong reasons" imply your reasons are wrong

349 they can't be serious, I can't read them as a serious person.

351 see this is why I can't fucking read them LOL. like that's deadpan humor. I can't tell if their entire playstyle is a shtick or not

365 don't love this post even as a joke

391, 392 i'm sorry, at a certain point, you just have to take someone at face value, and this is nonsense

520 my head is going to combust. i'm genuinely laughing rn cuz I feel like this entire time i'm just being trolled

779, 783 feels like they are actually starting to play

785 agree that it's a question worth asking, as I commented in my Titus ISO

mmmm overall like. I agree with spf that they are tough to read. I hate several of their posts. I feel like I have no choice but to take them at face value and scumlean them. petapan suggested they were a serious player, so, if this isn't one big troll, they're scum. or really bad town. you never can quite be sure. this is the kind of slot I will never vibe with.

ok that took fucking forever. also it didn't end up being alphabetical lol but such is life

here's my TL;DR

Agar - townlean, don't think they're a good wagon today

Titus - null-leaning-scum, but don't think pressure would serve us much yet. They indicated they would be around in a more engaging manner Tomorrow. They should be allowed to engage the game properly then and we can go from there

DGB - scumlean, I have no doubt they will be near the bottom of my tierlist by the time I'm done. Not lockscum, could just be a tough playstyle for me to vibe with and I'm still not entirely convinced they aren't trolling

[hercule]

JV 1016- I see how you can interpret hercule's first couple posts as manipulative to the end of "look at me i'm town" but i think it gets a little confbiased after that because i can't find that same thing everywhere you're seeing it
I am already kinda thinking Winter might be scum, although this post gets so far into the weeds it gets hard for me to follow.

i am semi-consciously trying to find JV as town i think because there seems to be a fair amount of consensus on him for not that much reason. i think i still am just landing on null. i don't think the scum response to their first catchup not working well is to do another one of the same content, but that could just be them freezing up a bit and not knowing how to engage with the game. watch this space?

I don't really vibe with the point about "look at me i'm town" for 2 reasons:

#1 "look at me i'm town" is like the entire basis of my playstyle and my homesite's meta, I will do anything necessary to acquire townreads and continually drive the point home

#2 they admitted to doing it themselves in 649

[hercule]

you know, it's probably not a bad idea to take LAMIST as a scumtell for site meta health because we keep getting deepwolfed and our games are exhausting, we could just make everyone cut it out LOL

[hercule]

i did really like agar backing off me ill admit. i was thinking of asking his teammates to look at the interaction if he was town because i was so sure they'd tell him he was overreacting and then it happened without my prompting

to play devil's advocate, do you think that scum!agar's teammates would also tell him to back off?

[hercule]

the one thing that keeps pinging me about hercule is him posting LMAO after comments that aren't funny
i know this is stupid, shut up

all of my comments are funny (to myself)

[hercule]

you know, it's probably not a bad idea to take LAMIST as a scumtell for site meta health because we keep getting deepwolfed and our games are exhausting, we could just make everyone cut it out LOL

this is legitimately a funny thought to me

[hercule]

you know, it's probably not a bad idea to take LAMIST as a scumtell for site meta health because we keep getting deepwolfed and our games are exhausting, we could just make everyone cut it out LOL

you guys are going to make me look up what lamist means again aren't you
i have to every time it comes up and somehow i never remember

i did really like agar backing off me ill admit. i was thinking of asking his teammates to look at the interaction if he was town because i was so sure they'd tell him he was overreacting and then it happened without my prompting

to play devil's advocate, do you think that scum!agar's teammates would also tell him to back off?

yes, absolutely, which is why i'm hesitant to write the whole thing off

it's Look At Me I'm So Towny, which I'm pretty sure is either a mafiascum or mafiauniverse term, definitely not one I've ever used outside of here LOL (now u have me self-conscious about my LOLs)

[hercule]

oh ye.
it seems to go in and out of fashion here which is why i still can't remember it despite my join date

if you'll allow me to pontificate (this is what happens to coffee!hercule), I genuinely wonder if it goes in and out of fashion as a response to site meta at the time. Like, for example, on EpicMafia we have never considered it to be a scumtell. That's just how everyone plays. But we really should start treating it less town-indicative because we have seen back-to-back-to-back deepwolves who utilized it to their advantage. But when it's not prevalent (aka scum doesn't need or have to do it or else they're scumread), then I presume it would go back to being a towntell. And I wonder if it just doesn't cycle like that with the current meta

[hercule]

k next up we have

Spoiler: Albert B. Rampage

intro is fine

I did mindmeld on 290 in real-time, since 287 felt like a non-sequitur. in context of the ISO it's a bit weird as their first serious content of the game

going through, 125, 151, 368, 514 (though i suppose there is backstory to this) are all filler, which is fine at beginning of game but it was bulk of his content

657 don't have too much of a problem with this considering it was before Agar re-evaluated the game

658 not the worst reads list

689 omg I never clicked on this link but it's his own wiki article i-

hold please

700 my interaction here. it's hard for me because I think ABR's straightforwardness comes across towny but his lack of in-depth analysis prevents me from getting a good grasp on what's going on in his mind, and I think that's an intended effect by him regardless of alignment

verdict: can't justify slotting this anywhere but null.

Spoiler: Almost50

entrance is fine. though idk if 105 is an inside joke, not sure what to make of telling certain ppl to vote them, possibly counteracting ppl he thinks can metaread him? or as town thinks they will misread him (well obvi thats what he is trying to IMPLY)

109 ironic seeing this after reading ABR's "rule of 3"

111, 112 (half filler half serious?), 114, 116, 118, 122, 124 i- ok I can't even keep quoting them---

pretty much all filler to start, and comments 135 at their post count, which is... inflated by filler

alright, so I can excuse that, the game had just started. they come back in at 618

side note, they quoted 181 here and I remember petapan disliking Winter's vote there. I can kind of see that considering yeah sure he was posting empty content but is that really AI at that point

619 feels like a weak discredit of a teammate read

622 decent callout of DGB, 453 did feel a bit useless

starts engaging with the game 737 through requesting teammate reads on the slot.

859 i don't really like this. he's like, telegraphing what he wants from each team, wouldn't that poison the results when the teammates of scumplayers could just tailor their reads to this blueprint. this is something i've seen from scum before where they think of a "towny gambit" and then blow their load by letting slip what they were "looking for" in advance, whereas I think town prefers to play it close to the chest

then again, on second thought, it is kind of a bold play to basically dare ~51 people who know you to give ur slot scrutiny. maybe I townlean it, it's not like he gave away exactly what he was expecting.

928 mmm like I can vibe with this mindset, I think it's taking a bit of a backseat approach to scumhunting though. Reading people through their reads on you can be revealing, but it shouldn't be the entirety of your scumhunting efforts

Julia (Super) and petapan both liked A50 asking for reads on their slot, I think I agree, just need to see them follow through and actually generate reads from it.

verdict: wait and see. there has to be an endpoint to this approach he has taken regarding getting all these reads on him. null for now, but willing to townread.

Spoiler: Cephrir

spf's reads:

- liked the intro, didn't feel they were vying for thread positioning but rather approaching the game from a solving perspective and had some well-considered observations.
- pinged by 776 because it felt like an "obligatory reads list", with some fairly generic reasoning and vibereads
- worried that TR on my slot is possible TMI, but liked that they still called me out for smth pinging them (i think the LOL comment), said it would be a bit counterproductive for scum!cephrir to do this if the intention was to pocket me (idk if this is that town indicative, scum would want to keep their options open)
- thought the conviction behind the push on Agar felt sincere, only thing that pinged her was that Cephrir seemed to piggyback off the reasoning someone else had given (i don't remember this, I'll look out for it in my ISO)

now me:

intro is fine, seems natural

395 maybe a bit over-explainy as to why they are posting more? otherwise fine

like how they pretty much just dive into scumhunting: 395, 399, 400, 405, 420, 421 - unafraid to take stances in a large game where there's no need to draw attention to yourself as scum

i like 426 (i'm biased) but

why

did you like our reactions?

497 vibes with my mindset

510 seems overly dramatic to me in hindsight and having read Agar's ISO. I feel like "new york's hottest scumpost" is making it out to be scummier than it is, though I understand the SR

also here's what spf was pinged by, i see it now, "i don't know if i'd have been bothered by this if unwnd didn't point it out" mmm idk if that's scummy, it seems fairly matter-of-fact. maybe some slight trends of over-explaining

i like their tone, they seem like they're having fun in general

agree with 527 and that's about exactly how I felt about A50 at that point of the game

561 is a perfectly reasonable response to Agar. "The idea that I have built a master plan to frame you specifically is pretty hard to swallow as a real thought" is something I felt as well

"Great, so why not say that instead of calling me scum for not reading your mind?" another good line

decent townreads fmpov at 776

781 side note i don't think they have come across grumpy, ah nvm i think this was jokes about the avi lmao

846 mmm yeah kind of agree but also I think their analysis came across as genuine

850 agreed and I had the same thought

869 another mindmeld, it's getting kind of concerning LOL

890 same

1067 honestly can't even complain about this because Super always says the same thing

verdict: townread. I feel like they're direct, unafraid, and constantly showing signs of thought process that makes sense to me. if they were tryna pocket me as spf posited, well, mission accomplished LOL

ok here's 3 more. TL;DR for these is:

ABR: pure null

A50: null-leaning-town, wait and see. tbh I see they are active in the thread right now responding to people's reads on them so I wonder if I won't be able to sort them sooner rather than later

Cephrir: town

[hercule]

prob not gonna ISO anyone else today but we will indeed sort this playerlist yes we will. vibing in the thread time who up

[hercule]

I think it's kind of funny that Titus started posting a lot after I was like "let's let them contribute some"

at least they acknowledge they were unimpressive leading up to this point

[hercule]

ur secret admirer says u were being cheeky with that lowkey scumtell

are they expecting me to know what that means

[hercule]

ur secret admirer says u were being cheeky with that lowkey scumtell

are they expecting me to know what that means

well they said you did it on purpose so im testing that hypothesis

genuinely not sure what you're referring to, i'm not gonna scumtell on purpose to bait people in a game where I don't know anyone. but I do like that they think i'm so powerful as to do so

[hercule]

Hercule you don't need to give me an ISO but could you give me your townreads? Long or shortform is fine

sure, so far, of the people I've ISO'd (and therefore am most confident of): Cephrir and Agar

of the people I haven't: Dannflor (but this was early game and needs to be re-evaluated, my gut feeling is they have dropped off some), hopkirk, okapoka, innocentvillager

to a lesser extent: xtoxm, ythan, maybe the worst, maybe unwnd

[hercule]

why did you flip on me n hercule?

Don't be confusing RVS BS'ing with real reads.

i want to believe you so badly that you were just fucking around, it makes sense to me, but it would also be the perfect thing to say to disarm my fos on you... not to mention you watching me agonize over whether you were being serious or not and saying NOTHING you absolute menace!!! i can't with u rn lmaoo

[hercule]

Hercule you don't need to give me an ISO but could you give me your townreads? Long or shortform is fine

sure, so far, of the people I've ISO'd (and therefore am most confident of): Cephrir and Agar

of the people I haven't: Dannflor (but this was early game and needs to be re-evaluated, my gut feeling is they have dropped off some), hopkirk, okapoka, innocentvillager

to a lesser extent: xtoxm, ythan, maybe the worst, maybe unwnd

Can you take a look at Xtomx and Ythan, first? It shouldn't take too long.

oh sure, what the hell, let's do 2 more ISOs while i'm in a good mood

[hercule]

I think it's kind of funny that Titus started posting a lot after I was like "let's let them contribute some"

at least they acknowledge they were unimpressive leading up to this point

Yes. The situation is that I am flat out overgamed. I am going to do the best I can in each one, but I am giving less of my attentipn to the slower moving ones because I can catch up easier.

I haven't even touched the other teammates games.

sure, fair enough, i will treat is as NAI for now

[hercule]

Spoiler: Xtoxm

literally just now understanding the intro, they're saying they wanted to play with the worst

11 and 23 are fine

56 if i'm gonna nitpick then "gl if ur not town" is a bit awkward sounding

127 i liked this post and so did spf, although it's not like there was a wagon so maybe a bit dramatic

131 filler

521 i think someone mentioned that they never explained why it was a good post, or even voted Agar, so yeah it's a bit odd

621 idk the purpose of this post, maybe friends with Dannflor's teammate

630 thanks socrates

642 not sure if when I read earlier I picked up on the fact that this was his teammate's reads lmao, that's literally more than xtoxm has given to this point. tbh not giving towncred for this

661 think this is a decent pushback

1008 from now on everyone who doesn't link the fucking numbers is going in the scumpool. jk but when u ISO this many people it gets annoying.

as for the content, I can vibe with the TR on A50 from those two posts, I understand it.

what specifically did you not like about 840, I feel like when I actually dived deep into the content it came out looking pretty good, that seems like pretty "surface level" shade

1030 fine

mmm i think tonewise they're fine, though I don't feel over the course of the game they have contributed enough quality reads. not seeing them engage with the game with any real depth. the fact their deepest reads are from their teammate is a bit disquieting

verdict: null-leaning-scum, deserves to be in the POE

Spoiler: Xtoxm

Spoiler: Ythan

I already know this ISO is going to be frustrating for me lmao. well luckily Super did an entire ISO on them last night so at least we will have two perspectives here. I will transcribe hers first:

super:

she thinks it's funny because she was the one who pointed out that she found it scummy that ythan hadn't read my post and it resulted in me dealing with all the nonsense that ensued. enjoy your schadenfreude u witch.

she doesn't mind the rxn to my push, thought 24 and 37 were good, thought that ythan was maybe genuinely trying to read me

she didn't like the omgus, the vote on me didn't sit right with her, also felt that ythan trying to discredit her read by saying I was lying about it was sus

she hates 728, she thinks that 734 they basically ignored what i said and didn't acknowledge the fact it was a genuine read, 738 she felt they were refusing to engage or even figure out if i was town

757 she kinda trs the response, can see why they think i should relax and wouldn't realize i am an "aggro fk" (thx super)

she doesn't understand ythan's reads, they have said they were pinged by 3 players but then didn't really properly interact with any of them

she kind of feels that ythan saw there was no traction on me and that's why they moved to Agar

overall she scumleans Ythan, but wants it to be known she feels no joy saying this about a fellow weeb

now me:

intro is fine

not even gonna comment on the first bit it's been beaten to death

ok i will comment so far as to say, like, especially knowing that DGB was bullshitting for reactions, the "vibe" comment is ethering me. idk if the use of the word "ether" is gonna make sense. i'm using it in the sense of nas' famous diss track on jay-z. aka it's killing me

lots of filler from 85-178

119 is this shade? about a random joke? i can't interpret it

408 seems like another example of them trying to buddy with any attempts to shade my slot

428 they say "remains to be seen if i'm tunneling," which I want to make a note of bc Super said they never seemed to reconsider later and were just discrediting me, which would take away from this sentiment

i will verify though

432, 447, 454 repeatedly complaining about my characterization of their posts but then they never really dispute it, they just cite their own posts in 457

458 more shade on me

728 on, I just like. I mean I hate them but I kind of felt scum would try to make a better argument than that

757 kind of seemed like they were trying to diffuse my anger at them and were talking to me as if I were town

765 they switch to Agar, and to back up Super's point, no real indication of why their fos on me is no longer as strong. Like yeah their argument got shredded but they don't acknowledge it they just slink away and then say I still give them "jitters" a la 767

776 this is from Cephrir and... yeah I see this argument as well. This is kind of why I was townleaning Ythan is just that like WHY would they do this as scum. I also remember hopkirk saying something along the lines of "welcome to mafiascum" when I made this point though

ugh not me scumleaning two of the players i just called town (at least I said it was to a lesser extent) but like... I am back to scum!ythan after ISO-ing. sometimes when I get in a fight with someone I end up tring them de facto but I don't really feel that way when looking at it from high altitude view

verdict: scumlean

TL;DR:

Xtoxm: null-leaning-scum

Ythan: scumlean

[hercule]

thats a lot of work to say you dont have a read on me guys

if this is referring to me, I don't know what you think you've done to deserve to have a read on you. You even said, and I quote, "It's not my responsibility to help you read me," if you're gonna hide your thought process then you can deal with being null until you lead on scum!

[hercule]

i like 426 (i'm biased) but why did you like our reactions?

i don't know if i actively liked them so much as didn't think they were the flailings of caught scum like she seemed to think, if i'm remembering correctly

right, sure

510 seems overly dramatic to me in hindsight and having read Agar's ISO. I feel like "new york's hottest scumpost" is making it out to be scummier than it is, though I understand the SR

i was trying to do a bit here but it doesn't seem to have landed

i considered that you might be playing it up / expressing it dramatically just for fun, and that kind of segued with my general vibes I got from you, so, okay, checks out

[hercule]

you know, it's probably not a bad idea to take LAMIST as a scumtell for site meta health because we keep getting deepwolfed and our games are exhausting, we could just make everyone cut it out LOL

Who are you talking about?

ah, yeah sorry I wasn't very clear in my rambling, I was just thinking out loud about my homesite, continuation of the thought at 1062

[hercule]

I now have 4 solid TRs, 2 Town leans and one null-town

i am excited you're townreading xtoxm, and i will bite
who?

man this amount of mindmeld with hopkirk is concerning stuff

it made me feel better about you until you called attention to it

did you ever share your progression on xtoxm? i don't really think they're that towny

you watching me agonize over whether you were being serious or not and saying NOTHING you absolute menace!!! i can't with u rn lmaoo

i know for a fact i am going to start applying this tone to actual hercule poirot and i am not even upset about that

this reminded me that I wanted to change my avi to hercules as a bit but now I don't want to ruin your fun...

---

on an unrelated note, spf has decreed that dunnstral is obvtown

[hercule]

question for @Ythan - how do your teammates read our interactions?

[hercule]

I am a bit fascinated by this push on hopkirk from unwnd. I townread hopkirk, though I presume when you say he "silvertongued me" that you mean he is pocketing me. I'm not seeing what you are seeing, and suggesting that they are trying to prove a point when they speak, being petty, ridiculing things they think are dumb isn't scum-indicative for me, if anything it's town-indicative.

I am also curious as to the comment that "almost all" of your teammates scumread Hopkirk / agree with the vote. Can we get rundown of each one's thoughts in particular and how much of the game they have read? Doesn't have to be longform just a general idea

[hercule]

I am a bit fascinated by this push on hopkirk from unwnd. I townread hopkirk, though I presume when you say he "silvertongued me" that you mean he is pocketing me. I'm not seeing what you are seeing, and suggesting that they are trying to prove a point when they speak, being petty, ridiculing things they think are dumb isn't scum-indicative for me, if anything it's town-indicative.

I am also curious as to the comment that "almost all" of your teammates scumread Hopkirk / agree with the vote. Can we get rundown of each one's thoughts in particular and how much of the game they have read? Doesn't have to be longform just a general idea

honestly, I am curious about all five, including Ampharos

[hercule]

what did menalaqe say. last time i'm asking this

Why is this what you care about the most?

because i know menal doesn't scumread me here so why are you pretending he does?

this is very explicitly a playstyle point that 3 people who i've never played with have decided is scummy after discussing it with someone who knows it's town indicative or NAI at worse? bullshit. that discussion didn't happen and you're faking that it did.

so I have two thoughts here, first one is I don't really see this as a scummy reaction as a couple ppl are saying (DGB, Cephrir). I know some people scumread AtE de facto but this felt genuine to me, like it comes across that Hopkirk genuinely doesn't believe menal would scumread them and I also think there are circumstances that we can't really discuss that made the claim of most of unwnd's team having legit read hopkirk and come up with that read a bit unbelievable. it just doesn't feel like a faked perspective to me.

I am a bit fascinated by this push on hopkirk from unwnd. I townread hopkirk, though I presume when you say he "silvertongued me" that you mean he is pocketing me. I'm not seeing what you are seeing,

and suggesting that they are trying to prove a point when they speak, being petty, ridiculing things they think are dumb isn't scum-indicative for me, if anything it's town-indicative.

I am also curious as to the comment that "almost all" of your teammates scumread Hopkirk / agree with the vote. Can we get rundown of each one's thoughts in particular and how much of the game they have read? Doesn't have to be longform just a general idea

I think that's just perspective. The scathing criticism would be more potent if it lead to something, or had some greater purpose. I came away from this interaction pretty confused in the way he addressed my points, instead of focusing on singular tells based on if I was lying about my whole team agreeing if he were scum or not. It's all very showy and presentation-oriented. As far as the others, me and Mena went back and forth about a few things with me just mostly leading on my logic which turned into minor complaints about how I think scum play in very boring ways and that I'd be disappointing if my read actually turned out to be correct. Amy replaced out and Maria agreed with me when I was just like 'yeah I think he's scum', but I was biding my time to see what Hopkirk would do before I came back to it.

The result was nothing.

the other thing is, I think that unwnd knows that their case is weak, i.e. they admitted it was lazy, but they wanted to out it in the thread regardless on a player that didn't have any suspicion on them, that feels +town to me to use a mafiascum term, and their explanation about the conversations they have feels plausible even if they overstated the strength of their teammate's reads. obviously, unwnd is not going to be able to lead a wagon on hopkirk from their suspicion alone, and I think they know that. But I will do them the respect of considering their stance when I ISO hop.

[hercule]

hercule lets use the power of friendship to make hopkirk and unwnd friends at least for today

I do think it's likely town v town but I also don't want to stop anyone from exploring their scumreads. It's a bad habit of mine that has gotten me into trouble. I would stop a wagon on either though.

unless you mean they should just be friendly to each other, in which case, yes

[hercule]

hercule lets use the power of friendship to make hopkirk and unwnd friends at least for today

I do think it's likely town v town but I also don't want to stop anyone from exploring their scumreads. It's a bad habit of mine that has gotten me into trouble. I would stop a wagon on either though.

unless you mean they should just be friendly to each other, in which case, yes

yes but i want to form a voting bloc and that requires them to be friemds D:

ok when the time is right I will blow the horn of gondor

[hercule]

the time is now to make the orcs n goblins nervous

alright, where do you want to go?

[hercule]

the time is now to make the orcs n goblins nervous

alright, where do you want to go?

i dunno but if we start the rumblings of forming teams and we can box out the wolves maybe the wolves will do something ai in panic

you have my sword

[hercule]

maybe i fuck around and VOTE: xtoxm with you

[hercule]

the time is now to make the orcs n goblins nervous

alright, where do you want to go?

i dunno but if we start the rumblings of forming teams and we can box out the wolves maybe the wolves will do something ai in panic

you have my sword

only people im comfortable adding to the bloc are unwnd and hopkirk right now

what's your read on Cephrir?

uh oh i was told to sheep you not the vice versa what has the game become

you have to deal with the ramifications of calling the council to order

[hercule]

im actually somewhat comfortable with inviting ceph in as well and we both mutually townread him too

okapok, hercule, unwnd, hopkirk, ceph what are the odds any of us are scum

lmao i saw this post in the pre-edit phase right as i was submitting but i submitted too fast, epic

[hercule]

I actually don't know if I'm fully committed to town!unwnd yet to be honest, but I will make Hopkirk and Unwnd my next two ISOs and see if we can't iron this out a bit

[hercule]

i have a picture of what unwnd scum would play like even though ive never played with unwnd scum before and its why im townreading that slot, but yeah its not exactly a scientific way of playing

well, go on then, share with the class!

[hercule]

i'm laughing at the idea of a townblock being formed without unwnd or hopkirk's consent while they're voting each other

[hercule]

i was townreading unwnd until today and i'm voting them without necessarily scumreading them right now. i want to review that slot.

i'm very concerned with their team

as much as i am with the slot right now.

can you elaborate on this without breaking any rules? i thought i knew what you meant before but now I'm a bit confused

[hercule]

i have a picture of what unwnd scum would play like even though ive never played with unwnd scum before and its why im townreading that slot, but yeah its not exactly a scientific way of playing

well, go on then, share with the class!

unwnd as a person complains a lot about site culture and holds the opinion that scum suck because they put in minimal effort and scumhunting sucks these days because scum aren't even willing to play properly.

as a result i suspect unwnd would be the scum player that puts up reasonable effort in actual actively doing stuff

but this recent hopkirk case at first is complete cheeks and lazy even if it might be right, it would be right for the wrong reasons probably. there are a lot of better ways to attack hopkirk than introducing your case with a ramble about site culture and ending with a talk about buzzwords. idk maybe im crazy but i feel almost as if unwnd as scum would put in a bit more effort in digging up quotes and running a pbp analysis or something on casing hopkirk purely because i think unwnd sees that type of scumplay as very strong against how he perceives site culture meta.

but this is a very illformed thought because i have no idea of how unwnd actually plays lmao


also forming a townbloc without hopkirk or unwnd's consent as they crossvote each other is very much intentional

honestly, site meta / culture comments aside, that reasoning vibes with me because it would be such a lame fucking push from unwnd as scum that would be so unnecessary for them to do, don't really know why they would paint a target on themselves without a real case to back it up. like idt u really have to have an idea of unwnd's scumplay to think it seems town-motivated rather than scum-motivated. it would be one thing if like a solid towncore was assembling that scum needed to break up + start spewing about deepwolves, but that wasn't really the gamestate at all

[hercule]

yeah and its probably? not SvS because hopkirk admittedly reacted pretty poorly to the case that really felt more like the ramblings of an old man nostalgic for a bygone era that may have never existed

maybe not now but that exchange was pretty hilarious

lmao if that was SvS it would be a pretty funny attempt at self-sabotage for no particular reason, imagine having TMI on your partner and the best case you can make is "well they were rude" (LOL i know i'm trivializing a bit but allow me the dramatic effect)

[hercule]

You guys are embarrassing me and making me regret even attempting to case him

Should've just naked voted like all the mysterious people

lmaoo bro i'm sorry, i genuinely like, want you to try to show us what you see. i can be obnoxious like this sometimes but i'm certainly fallible. all cases and tinfoils are worth pursuing.

[hercule]

he just said 'his entire team' is sus of me. ask your partners about that in your discords.

well he kind of elaborated that beeboy and Ampharos didn't offer any insight, and MariaR and Menal were mainly sheeping him. So yeah I think he was overstating it but it wasn't as sus as I was originally thinking (aka he was straight up lying) - and that's what I thought you were originally getting at

@Hercule

Can you elaborate on this tidbit for me? It was noticed by myself and my team that you just happily plugged along while I was being run up and didn't even make a sound about it in one direction or the other. Hopkirk asked in 709 among other people and your response was basically that you needed to ISO me, and then didn't get any attention on that until after I had posted my large spew later on.

I think I did elaborate on it twice but yeah in an 18 person game I don't feel the need to chime in on everything, and the bw on you was interesting to me but I didn't feel the need to discuss it, just let it run its course and see if anything shakes out, and if there's something interesting to me I will comment on it. It would have been highly surprising to me if people actually even put you at, say, L-2, at that point in the day. When I gave the snap reads to Hopkirk I didn't realize how small your ISO was, I was mainly just trying to answer each question off-the-cuff. I only dug into Titus' ISO because I realized I didn't remember a single thing they had said or done. Sorry if my attention to your slot was lacking at that point lmao it's a big ass game you're just gonna have to deal with it

[hercule]

im actually somewhat comfortable with inviting ceph in as well and we both mutually townread him too

okapok, hercule, unwnd, hopkirk, ceph what are the odds any of us are scum

there's always a chance
probably a lower chance than if you took a random swipe at the playerlist tho

who would you remove if you had to pick one?

[hercule]

yea oka is towny as fuck

[hercule]

Yeah my townlist looks like

Ceph
ABR
Oka
Hercule
(A50)

maybe you've explained this somewhere but can you give me the context of your TR on ABR?

if anypne's wondering oka feels very engaged and sincere and like, the game i remember with him i thought he might be too scummy to be scum and he was actually scum, so i'm a bit dubious about his ability to fake the just like, happy lighthearted mood that radiates from his posts

yea oka is towny as fuck

i was wondering tbh yeah

so it's mostly just a tonal read?

I think the best way I could describe why I think Oka is town is the lack of scum agenda. Yeah the tone is good, but when he is doing stuff like stating plainly what koba told him to do if he flipped scum, discrediting multiple scumreads, asking relevant questions, trying to stop what he perceives to be town v town, taking initiative to form a townblock, it just seems antithetical to how mafia would approach the game. it's a direct mindset as well

[hercule]

I think I did elaborate on it twice but yeah in an 18 person game I don't feel the need to chime in on everything, and the bw on you was interesting to me but I didn't feel the need to discuss it, just let it run its course and see if anything shakes out, and if there's something interesting to me I will comment on it. It would have been highly surprising to me if people actually even put you at, say, L-2, at that point in the day. When I gave the snap reads to Hopkirk I didn't realize how small your ISO was, I was mainly just trying to answer each question off-the-cuff. I only dug into Titus' ISO because I realized I didn't remember a single thing they had said or done. Sorry if my attention to your slot was lacking at that point lmao it's a big ass game you're just gonna have to deal with it

I mean, it was *the* thing happening in the game.

And I was put at E-2 *twice*.

Like this is just wildly off kilter for someone who is seemingly trying to be very engaged.

Oh true I guess you did LMAO. Idk why I just never processed that, I just assumed no one would try to genuinely put someone over the edge that early, and I guess if it did happen we could just deal with the ramifications later (i.e. if you flipped town one of the last two votes is almost certainly a scumclaim). It just wasn't that serious to me idk what else to tell ya mate, felt like something I could sort through at my leisure and had no pressing desire to interject myself. Genuinely have nothing else to say about the subject

[hercule]

hercule when ur there can u talk to me about spf and her reads

kkoba says spf is supposed to have some god tier reads soo do you agree whats up idk

pedit: 5

sure, i think i've said most of her reads to this point

fwiw all 4 of us have been focusing our reading /discussion efforts on one of the other games atm (we all flipped town, it's just the specifics of that game have lent itself to our attention, don't think I can/should explain much more than that)

so last thing I discussed with spf was to ask her to sanity check our towncore, but I told her it's not urgent and she said she would do it over the next couple days

[hercule]

hercule when ur there can u talk to me about spf and her reads

kkoba says spf is supposed to have some god tier reads soo do you agree whats up idk

pedit: 5

sure, i think i've said most of her reads to this point

fwiw all 4 of us have been focusing our reading /discussion efforts on one of the other games atm (we all flipped town, it's just the specifics of that game have lent itself to our attention, don't think I can/should explain much more than that)

so last thing I discussed with spf was to ask her to sanity check our towncore, but I told her it's not urgent and she said she would do it over the next couple days

okay i was going to ask about recent developments like her thoughts on xtoxm now and towncore lmao

but i guess we can table it

also if koba is seems to be a mega spf fan as well so i was wondering if spf is supposed to be a super scumhunter or what

what are your basic thoughts on xtoxm, are you voting him because you are sheeping me or do you think he's scum too.

I give her about equal credence to myself. As far as this game goes, I am spending the most time reading and analyzing it and will mainly use her feedback to bounce off a bit, check my bias, push me in other directions. Same with any of my team, it's just good feedback. I'm voting Xtoxm because I have them in my POE at the time and I was down to start aligning with someone. A little surprised it took off so quickly but not enough to spook me too much, maybe the last 3 are bit suspicious with regards to timing (ceph/abr/titus), but I think I saw someone make a comment about liking the wagon (maybe the worst?) and at the time the 5 people voting all seemed decent bets to be town.

i was townreading unwnd until today and i'm voting them without necessarily scumreading them right now. i want to review that slot.

i'm very concerned with their team

as much as i am with the slot right now.

can you elaborate on this without breaking any rules? i thought i knew what you meant before but now I'm a bit confused

hm
1- i cannot be specific without rule breaking
2- ask your teammates about the parts where i can't be specific
3- unwnd has said all of his team agreed with voting me
4- look at who's on his team. look at who's on my team
5- you should be able to work out why i think there's something weird going on with that team RELATED to the fact that UNWND said all of his team are scumreading me
6- this is not related to who is in their team. the thing about menal is 100% separate to this
7- this does not directly relate to the game
8- i get the impression their team has some kind of a problem with my team

i can't really be more specific due to rules. ask your teammates

mmm okay I think you're being a bit obtuse here. He said Menal and MariaR agreed with his points, and implied amph and beeboy had no opinion or didn't read. I'll ask my teammates and see if they understand what you're saying.

[hercule]

I guess my main takeaway on Xtoxm is that they are LHF but they're not particularly towny LHF so seems as good a place as any to vote. Maybe there's an argument that we won't get much information from the flip? But I don't typically give that kind of argument much credence, just vote slots that are more likely to be scum.

[hercule]

mmm okay we think we know what you're talking about @Hopkirk, but we're not entirely sure. only thing that peta wants to say is that if it's what we're postulating at is that he thinks unwnd has more integrity than what we think you're accusing him of. spf thinks it's such a specific/complex thought process from you that it probably is town indicative.

and this convo is now so far in the weeds that I am considering it closed.

[hercule]

mmm okay we think we know what you're talking about @Hopkirk, but we're not entirely sure. only thing that peta wants to say is that if it's what we're postulating at is that he thinks unwnd has more integrity than what we think you're accusing him of. spf thinks it's such a specific/complex thought process from you that it probably is town indicative.

and this convo is now so far in the weeds that I am considering it closed.

I know it's my fight but just saying scum finding roundabout reasons to justify their actions is more true than town. I think Hopkirk came up with the excuse of TM shit because it sounded good and nothing else

so yeah I pushed back that scum could be just as annoyed as town, (well we are presuming his gripe to be a true thought and thus NAI), but spf's point was more that to get to the endpoint where he got would require more hoops to jump through from a mafia mindset than a town. I really don't know if I can keep talking about this though because it's all based around an assumption my team made about what hopkirk is talking about that he can't talk about so like - lmao. i'm over it

[hercule]

hopkirk, do you have breakfast? when is dinnertime?

LMAO chillll

[hercule]

only way hopkirk v unwnd is svs is if hopkirk really wanted to advertise his dnd campaign

yeah I think I need to hear more about the campaign to really sort him

[hercule]

7pm-12pm+ on tuesday/thursday - playing mafia/social deception games/other games with friends

plays mafia for 17 hours but cant be here for all of them?

eliminate all liars

um he clearly said 7pm-12pm, thats 5 hours, why are you being willfully ignorant of his schedule? scumclaiming?

[hercule]

12pm is noon though

oh tea wait I didn't even notice the typo... damn my counterjoke missed the original joke I cry

[hercule]

I don't particularly want the day to end yet

[hercule]

I don't particularly want the day to end yet

Naval gazing seems to be a speciality of yours.

well I just googled that

"self-indulgent or excessive contemplation of oneself or a single issue, at the expense of a wider view."

what are you even referring to? what is the benefit of ending the day early?

[hercule]

tbh I am definitely down for some self-indulgent or excessive contemplation of myself but I don't see how that's relevant

[hercule]

@unwnd i made a visual guide for you:
what is hopkirk doing now?

i had to make some assumptions but i sincerely hope this clears up any confusion about hopkirk's availability so that you can resume sorting him for AI things

well this is in british time which is basically unintelligible

[hercule]

abr, why is xtoxm scum

and for brownie points why is he a better flip than any other flip

As far as I'm concerned he's done little and less to help the town. Spending most of the day not voting is innacptable, and his iso is sparse and underwhelming. Not a slot I'd be sorry to see go.

which slots would you be sorry to see go

[hercule]

ffs, not you too. flopz was asking me if i'd had three meals today. just because i only had one meal on saturday. i'm concerned i've put on a little weight over the lockdown. how am i supposed to address that except skipping meals when i don't like how i look in the mirror?!?

my opinion of flopz just skyrocketed
i hope you're doing ok & i'm sure you're fine -- the entire human race put on weight during lockdown, just make sure you're feeling ok!

mine too but for a different reason

[hercule]

abr, why is xtoxm scum

and for brownie points why is he a better flip than any other flip

As far as I'm concerned he's done little and less to help the town. Spending most of the day not voting is innacptable, and his iso is sparse and underwhelming. Not a slot I'd be sorry to see go.

which slots would you be sorry to see go

Innocentvillager and Hopkirk.

acknowledging your response, not that juicy though

[hercule]

just wanted to say I have a very important case to make. everyone stop what you're doing and read

Spoiler: 4/4 scum team solve

lol page 69

[hercule]

how am i meant to decide between eliminating xtoxm, eliminating abr, and policying hercule
this game is impossible

had to do it to em

[hercule]

auro wishes for me to call out 1833 as fake news, his read was unrelated to iv.
he is a fan of mastina and would possibly be willing to sheep her on d1.
he also notes that he dislikes 1917.
paraphrased.

this is a horrible response to an L-2 wagon on you?? only posting your teammate's reads? no other comments or concerns? no consideration of whether the wagon is scum-motivated or town-motivated?

I think I saw someone make the point that this slot might be too scummy to be scum!xtoxm - fuck meta i don't care

---------

on another note, where is Ythan? They said they were going to ask for their teammate's reads on our interaction two days ago and then haven't been seen in the thread since

---------

on another other note, hello mastina welcome to the game. I'm not the biggest fan of your style of introduction to the game since you are putting yourself in a position to out stale reads, but I guess if they continue to evolve it's fine. I'm just a bit pinged that you might be pushing Jackson's narrative rather than reading for yourself (specifically you both listed me as scum which is a bit eyebrow raise - for example, you put me as scum for my first post and then didn't seem to move it, rather just reinforce it), especially since you went so far as to say you couldn't see the PT (I'm assuming you have access to the discord?). Like, to me, it makes more sense to read the game holistically. On the flip side, if you're being genuine I don't mind seeing some progression and it doesn't seem like you are even close to caught up. You can have space to enter the game as far as I'm concerned

-----------

on a final note, I'm feeling in the mood to do some more ISOs today as long as I get some work stuff done first

[hercule]

I wish, but all I really got is that hercule's posts look like scum through and through. I don't really have objective reasoning for why. Everything from hercule just feels forced and fake, and looks like scum that doesn't know how to be town in a playerlist filled to the brim with greats. I just don't see anything town in hercule at all, and the few stances I've seen from hercule feel slimy.

what the fuck is this? this might possibly be the most made-up garbage read I've seen the entire game, and that's saying something considering Ythan accused me of lying about some real mundane shit. "scum that doesn't know how to be town in a playerlist filled with greats" ??????? i don't even know a single person at the table. imagine trying to metaread me and not even knowing basic facts about me

[hercule]

I don't get why an ABR wagon sprang up.

me neither, I've had about zero patience with that slot the entire game but everyone else seemed to be meta townreading him so idk why it dissipated rapidly

[hercule]

I don't think xtoxm has given any reason to be unvoted

[hercule]

I wish, but all I really got is that hercule's posts look like scum through and through. I don't really have objective reasoning for why. Everything from hercule just feels forced and fake, and looks like scum that doesn't know how to be town in a playerlist filled to the brim with greats. I just don't see anything town in hercule at all, and the few stances I've seen from hercule feel slimy.

what the fuck is this? this might possibly be the most made-up garbage read I've seen the entire game, and that's saying something considering Ythan accused me of lying about some real mundane shit. "scum that doesn't know how to be town in a playerlist filled with greats" ??????? i don't even know a single person at the table. imagine trying to metaread me and not even knowing basic facts about me

I'm so triggered by this. Slimy? bitch where

[hercule]

I wish, but all I really got is that hercule's posts look like scum through and through. I don't really have objective reasoning for why. Everything from hercule just feels forced and fake, and looks like scum that doesn't know how to be town in a playerlist filled to the brim with greats. I just don't see anything town in hercule at all, and the few stances I've seen from hercule feel slimy.

what the fuck is this? this might possibly be the most made-up garbage read I've seen the entire game, and that's saying something considering Ythan accused me of lying about some real mundane shit. "scum that doesn't know how to be town in a playerlist filled with greats" ??????? i don't even know a single person at the table. imagine trying to metaread me and not even knowing basic facts about me

I'm so triggered by this. Slimy? bitch where

like tell me this isn't just verbatim the shit Jackson was saying about being "subtly manipulative" as if that holds water

[hercule]

I don't meta townread him

I think his slot is disgustingly null so even on a redlfip you only gain +1 worth of days to sort the rest of scum who would just be letting him die

is this in regards to ABR? that's about how I feel about the slot. It's just a bit jarring to me to see momentum on them appear from thin air

[hercule]

I would say that xtoxm is Objectively Scummy. I suppose the flip here is predicated on ABR having TMI'd xtoxm as town? I think it's a bit of a stretch but possible

[hercule]

Xtoxm's reaction to being wagoned with intent was to basically not even blink and just out their teammate's reads into the thread and then tab out

[hercule]

what is FUD?

[hercule]

I dunno I feel like you guys live in some metaworld that I don't fully need to or want to understand, I think he is Scummy.

[hercule]

just quickly replying:

your read on ABR is so vindicating. lol.

ceph read is very good and i think his uninformedness/actual curiosity at the shitfights is a really good way of qualifying something i've been ~feeling~ for a minute

mastina - Mixed. I'm just kind of leaving this slot for further evaluation. I didn't much like JV's posting at all. When the worst was suspecting them I largely agreed with what he saw, but I never heavily scum read the slot. It just seemed awkward and not as tempting a wagon target as Agar was.

There have been a couple weird things about mastina's entrance so far. It's strange how confident she is in her reads list based off the the first 15 pages in a near 80 page game. Also, I'm not a don corleone level scum player. That's not me being self-effacing there's just no one who would say that about me with a straight face despite the memes.

But I think mastina gets more readable as her trajectories become clearer, and she hasn't had time to form trajectories yet. So, I'm just shelving this read for later.

i feel real similar about mastina's slot. i want her to be town because

i like her reads

but i'm wary that i'm a good pocket in the heat of that moment but i'm wary that mastina knows i'm unlikely to receive a pocket gladly

has mastina played with scum!you since AvP? you played extremely well there; that's kind of where my mind went when she referred to you as DC level scum

the worst - Lean town

gottem

unwnd - Mixed

this read interests me a lot
i still think unwnd is town and i'm not really sure how to work out whether i'm right or not; i think they get a lot easier to read when we can tell what they've been doing today

lol what? did you even read her reads, like actually read them. or did you just see a wallpost and like the effort

[hercule]

xtoxm was at L-1 with intent

then abr comes in and tries to undermine the wagon? he makes a throwaway comment to stop a xtoxm flip? its not a substantive comment its literally a throwaway comment.

i mean that's a pretty bad in my eyes if that's how you defend the wagon but abr has been 1) on the xtoxm wagon 2) defended flipping xtoxm himself 3) xtoxm has not really done anything that should reasonably change why abr was for flipping xtoxm so in conclusion why is abr playing both sides (in a very non committal fashion mind you)


xtoxm doesn't deserve to be unvoted per se but i think abr scumclaimed so the vibe checks is if other people agree yeah that was a scumclaim maybe we do abr today

I mean, yes, that could be true, but also I don't think there's necessarily intent to stop the wagon there? I don't think it's a scumclaim de facto. How is that post going to change anything? If anything, if ABR is scum, I think they realized xtoxm was about to be hammered and wanted to look better post-flip. But I'm not particularly sold on it.

[hercule]

Sometimes I'm the only one to be right against the entire group. It happens.

mm now I don't really understand though, do you think xtoxm is town or do you think they're scum? you were keen on the wagon earlier that's indisputable

[hercule]

I don't get why an ABR wagon sprang up.

Because people wanna replace one wagon on town that's being scumread for understandable but ultimately wrong reasons, for a different wagon on town that's being scumread for understandable but ultimately wrong reasons.

you talk with a lot of confidence for someone who has read less than half of the game and has noticeably bad reads

[hercule]

just quickly replying:

your read on ABR is so vindicating. lol.

ceph read is very good and i think his uninformedness/actual curiosity at the shitfights is a really good way of qualifying something i've been ~feeling~ for a minute

mastina - Mixed. I'm just kind of leaving this slot for further evaluation. I didn't much like JV's posting at all. When the worst was suspecting them I largely agreed with what he saw, but I never heavily scum read the slot. It just seemed awkward and not as tempting a wagon target as Agar was.

There have been a couple weird things about mastina's entrance so far. It's strange how confident she is in her reads list based off the the first 15 pages in a near 80 page game. Also, I'm not a don corleone level scum player. That's not me being self-effacing there's just no one who would say that about me with a straight face despite the memes.

But I think mastina gets more readable as her trajectories become clearer, and she hasn't had time to form trajectories yet. So, I'm just shelving this read for later.

i feel real similar about mastina's slot. i want her to be town because

i like her reads

but i'm wary that i'm a good pocket in the heat of that moment but i'm wary that mastina knows i'm unlikely to receive a pocket gladly

has mastina played with scum!you since AvP? you played extremely well there; that's kind of where my mind went when she referred to you as DC level scum

the worst - Lean town

gottem

unwnd - Mixed

this read interests me a lot
i still think unwnd is town and i'm not really sure how to work out whether i'm right or not; i think they get a lot easier to read when we can tell what they've been doing today

lol what? did you even read her reads, like actually read them. or did you just see a wallpost and like the effort

her reads are like.. decisively contrary and very underdeveloped. so yes. i liked them. i'm also waiting for them to develop.

fair enough

[hercule]

xtoxm was at L-1 with intent

then abr comes in and tries to undermine the wagon? he makes a throwaway comment to stop a xtoxm flip? its not a substantive comment its literally a throwaway comment.

i mean that's a pretty bad in my eyes if that's how you defend the wagon but abr has been 1) on the xtoxm wagon 2) defended flipping xtoxm himself 3) xtoxm has not really done anything that should reasonably change why abr was for flipping xtoxm so in conclusion why is abr playing both sides (in a very non committal fashion mind you)


xtoxm doesn't deserve to be unvoted per se but i think abr scumclaimed so the vibe checks is if other people agree yeah that was a scumclaim maybe we do abr today

I mean, yes, that could be true, but also I don't think there's necessarily intent to stop the wagon there? I don't think it's a scumclaim de facto. How is that post going to change anything? If anything, if ABR is scum, I think they realized xtoxm was about to be hammered and wanted to look better post-flip. But I'm not particularly sold on it.

don't know if abr actually *intended* on stopping an xtoxm wagon but at the very least he wants us to think he's trying to stop an xtoxm wagon for whatever reasons which doesn't make sense if abr is town. abr has defended flipping xtoxm earlier in the day and nothing xtoxm has done should have changed that opinion, and its not like abr is intent on working with others to find a better wagon. its just... there

yeah I feel that. I was giving him some benefit of the doubt that maybe he just had a random thought and wanted to say it but... it does feel like there's some logical inconsistency going on, I don't really see why he went from being good with an xtoxm flip to suddenly being worried about it, only variable that changed was... more votes?

pedit: lol you're gonna grab popcorn while ur counterwagoned? be my guest

VOTE: ABR

[hercule]

if he wants to watch himself be voted who are we to stop him

[hercule]

Catching up, looks like a lot happened, TL:DR me please!

wagon on xtoxm, counterwagon on ABR

[hercule]

bruh the main thing is how do you tab in after 2 days to a wagon forming on you and your only post. your ONLY post is to paraphrase some shit your teammate said??

not even a "this is fine" meme?? nothing?

[hercule]

And there has been plenty of times where scum has been 'caught' but town loses momentum and interest and they slip by even though they were 'caught'.

Sure, but come a future day, say by D3-5 in that range.

Y'all are gonna look back at the mislynches on the slots like ABR and Xtoxm, scrutinize their wagons looking for the scum on them, and be wondering... "why the fuck did we eliminate them, again?". You're gonna look back, realize in hindsight they're not nearly as scummy as they looked while alive, and wonder how the fuck they ended up being eliminated.

And if you're smart, you'll realize it's because in a bout of stupidity, y'all ended up jumping on thinking you've 'caught' scum for things that aren't actually scum.

But you'll probably pull another dumb, instead of realizing the above, thinking that clearly, the mislynches were the machinations of deepscum that powerwolfed and paranoia-vote the powertown players that you were yourself among, forgetting that they were in the same mindset you were in at the time.

How's

that

for a prediction?

I don't understand where a single one of your thought processes come from, genuinely. It feels like you are on a different planet than the rest of the game and I'm not sure if it's because you haven't caught up yet you're trying to be present or if you just are informed of things that I'm not and therefore have to approach the game from a different angle

[hercule]

I'm just going to outsiurce my vote to mastin for the rest of day 1.

VOTE: hercules

very pro-town of you!

[hercule]

Mastin where are you in your catchup?

I'm just going to outsiurce my vote to mastin for the rest of day 1.

VOTE: hercules

this person clearly has not read the game, I should sheep them while I'm being wagoned, this elim will definitely go through and save me!

[hercule]

bruh the main thing is how do you tab in after 2 days to a wagon forming on you and your only post. your ONLY post is to paraphrase some shit your teammate said?? not even a "this is fine" meme?? nothing?

Quite easily as it turns out. Xtoxm was the D2 elimination that game; go look at his posting at the bottom of his iso. Notice something?

His posting there is almost nothing--no recognition of his situation, nothing.

And that's just the example I got from the top of his game history where he was eliminated.

I could find many others.

Suffice to say: Xtoxm reacting that way isn't scum; I actually think it's town.

well, fair enough. maybe he's just a liability

[hercule]

Mastin where are you in your catchup?

I'm just going to outsiurce my vote to mastin for the rest of day 1.

VOTE: hercules

this person clearly has not read the game, I should sheep them while I'm being wagoned, this elim will definitely go through and save me!

Such is the nature of mafia. You voted me because oka and hopkirk told you to

okay let me ask you this: do you think I am mafia?

[hercule]

Xtoxm is never escaping the POE this game. ABR is being actively scummy, in the thread, right now. I'm fine if they are the competing wagons, people should just vote who they think is mafia

[hercule]

or in another words we are going to probably deliberate and then reconsolidate onto one of them

I think I would rather have a split than a consolidation for more information

[hercule]

@mastina you are so far into the weeds trying to guess what ABR is thinking for a slot that patently refuses to express their thoughts

[hercule]

Abr why did you go from supporting xtoxm wagon to saying it will probably flip town when intent was placed?

Because it's what I think

lol based on what though. give us some insight into your brain. point us to the post where your mind changed

[hercule]

Abr why did you go from supporting xtoxm wagon to saying it will probably flip town when intent was placed?

Because it's what I think

Why did your thoughts change

i know you saw my post in the pedit window of me asking the same thing and you still asked. i just want you to know that I know

[hercule]

The level of certainty that xtoxm is scum is obnoxious to me. Same with the wagon on me. It's hard to play some good mafia with this herd mentality.

this probably comes from a town mindset more often than scum

it would be more credible if his response was literally pointing us in any other direction except "im going to vote with the person transparently still on page 14"

[hercule]

who is expressing such certainty that xtoxm is scum

I feel like this sudden concern about a phantom group of people that are deadset on xtoxm obv scum is made up

he's scummy but like ??? it's day 1 in a large if either of you flipped town I would be frustrated but not surprised

this too, like yeah they're in the POE and their response to the wagon sucked, is much more explanation required

[hercule]

honestly I'm vibing with Agar, I can't really align my brain with mastina at all and I would want to give her a pass and say she's not caught up, but at this point everyone has told her that and she is willfully ignoring it. Sometimes you just gotta vote scummy people and not make excuses for them. I feel the same way about ABR, I feel the same way about Xtoxm, I think they both reacted poorly to their wagons. I'll vote any of those three. I'll vote Ythan as well. That's where I'm at. If this day continues I will just keep sorting, I am not really in a hurry to end it but it seems to have intensified, so that's the four people I would vote in atm.

[hercule]

I don't really feel like "scum is in control of the game" or masterminding these wagons, they feel pretty good to me, it's just an 18 person game and it's fucking hard to reach a consensus on day one. Just keep fighting the good fight. We'll get there

[hercule]

every post I make is a town post technically

[hercule]

I would want to give her a pass and say she's not caught up, but at this point everyone has told her that and she is willfully ignoring it.

1: Engaging with present is more important than not engaging and reading the past.
2: People have said that I lack the context, but whenever the context is brought up, I've investigated the context to analyze it.
3: Upon investigating the context, I've pointed out the flaws in their reasoning and given my thoughts on it.
4: People continue to say that I lack context, that my position is wrong. I continue to investigate any additional context they show, and continue to point out why I feel their stance is mistaken.

Just because I haven't read everything doesn't mean I am incapable of engaging on things--and I feel I raise valid points with my investigation that are being written off as "lol, lacks context", when...I HAVE investigated the context in them.

It's not just that you are lacking context, it's like your brain is functioning on a different wavelength to mine and what appears to be everyone else's

it's jumped out at me multiple times and often that's a scum sign of someone who is making connections that either don't exist or that I can't make because they're not readily available from a plain reading of the thread

[hercule]

like for example your big post about ABR vs Xtoxm being town vs town felt literally like it appeared from thin air

[hercule]

I would give more credit to oka's "mastina is being mastina" but frankly I'm tired of every scumlean I have being discredited by meta. I really can't be fucked on trying to metaread strangers in an 18 person day one. If you're scummy you're scummy.

[hercule]

I would give more credit to oka's "mastina is being mastina" but frankly I'm tired of every scumlean I have being discredited by meta. I really can't be fucked on trying to metaread strangers in an 18 person day one. If you're scummy you're scummy.

not saying mastina is town meta, just saying that she does this as both alignments, but if you think its scummy im not going to stop you, im just going to take more time to make a thought on it

ok, maybe I came off a little strong I just was getting a little annoyed at how many reads amount to "would this person really play like this as scum?" like girl I don't know and I don't care, they have teammates, people can change their game to adapt, and I don't know anyone or anyone's meta

[hercule]

Spoiler: What you were doing before

give a quicktownblock Ythan, stat

I'm going to acknowledge that I saw this but not do it because I don't have those feelings.

you don't have what feelings?

I don't get town vibes. I just sometimes try to keep people I like from getting launched d1.

sooooooo what do you think now

Trying to take a look at what's going on with AGar and this sure was an odd post from IV.

Love you buddy but you actually do look scummy and that's different.

VOTE: AGar

That's -2 btw

Hercules, Innocent V, Jack, and Duck give me jitters.

sooooooo what do you think now

Trying to take a look at what's going on with AGar and this sure was an odd post from IV.

odd how? i wanted to know if he still thought it Dann's switch was scummy given the response

Because why not just wait for AGar to respond rather than chiming in emptily.

Felt a lot more solve-y

Ythan dissociated from the thread approximately 48 hours ago for reasons unknown, I have taken note of this.

[hercule]

Ythan dissociated from the thread approximately 48 hours ago for reasons unknown, I have taken note of this.

I'm terrified

as you should be

[hercule]

@ABR what's your take on mastina or Ythan? I would vote either. I've made that clear as well. I'm not even sure who you are classifying as "running the show"

[hercule]

@ABR what's your take on mastina or Ythan? I would vote either. I've made that clear as well. I'm not even sure who you are classifying as "running the show"

Mastin town Ythan dont know

ok well if you want to vote outside of Xtoxm, you can have my vote on Ythan. Other than that I'm not really sure what you are expecting as far as having people push outside, that's kind of a nebulous request. You're not relegated to the sidelines, you're just suggesting to make better bandwagons without giving any targets or reasons

[hercule]

Going to be impossible to beat ythan with a cattleprod if we let go of xtoxm

wdym by this?

[hercule]

let's say we run up ythan

or winter flakes or literally anyone else that is ABR approved

what's to stop them doing the exact same thing xtoxm is doing now and oh well I guess they must be town time to go wagon everyone else for 8 days

not only this but if we drop xtoxm and i go around trying to build a wagon on ythan because ythan isn't really playing the game, everyone will be like well xtoxm is playing it less why we are moving? I'll have to respond either with some bullshit or the truth, pressure ythan and hope that he plays.

if ythan is scum or even town, understandably he is not actually under any pressure because at the end of the day he can ignore us and realize the wagon will collapse and we will regroup on xtoxm.

pressure can't exist for the sake of pressure, there must be a realistic chance that they can die. its why so often people misread scum for not flinching under pressure from early day wagons, because scum know that town are too scared to end days early and will dissolve for new things.

sure, that's fair. I just like competing wagons and wanted to prod ABR to see if he's willing to take action or if he's all talk. And I would yeet either of Ythan or Xtoxm if I was granted a instantaneous mandatory dayvig so it's playing with house money