TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[jjh927]

Greeting

[jjh927]

This is a neat playerlist

I'm gonna take my time doing things for a bit though

[jjh927]

Ayy it's the weekend

[jjh927]

VOTE: the worst

[jjh927]

idk i got bored

and I'm curious if jjh is thinking about anything in particular

I thought the worst's entrance was +awk alignment sooooooo

I won't lie, my playstyle now does not involve thinking about anything in particular with any huge amount of detail if I can avoid it
I had a read through the game and tw hit me as most likely to be scum, but not for any specific reason

[jjh927]

My three tenets are now;
high accuracy
high efficiency
low effort

[jjh927]

My three tenets are now;
high accuracy
high efficiency
low effort

have you tried high accuracy low efficiency high effort, it's super fun

Of course, but that gets me NKed early and I don't have as much effort to spare these days at any rate

[jjh927]

Hmm

I don't like LLD's playstyle but I don't think she's scum here

Hercule looks like town to me, but I should add the caveat that I haven't read the previous incarnation of this game so can't really comment if people are judging based on that


I'm still happy voting the worst

[jjh927]

Could someone spell this out for me in case I missed a post somewhere

[jjh927]

Well yeah you are way too aggressive

I play as loose as ever nowadays but I think that means something different to me than it does to you

[jjh927]

No point playing this game if I don't have fun doing it and I don't have fun when people have shouting matches

[jjh927]

I don't think Hecule's reaction to being pushed has been great, but I don't see what you do

[jjh927]

I don't think the actual position he's taking here is AI at all

[jjh927]

I would agree that hard engaging on a 1V1 with you is a terrible idea for scum

I just don't think it's a good idea for town either

[jjh927]

It's a tricky situation if you're town when a thread-dominating player leads a significant wagon on you and you aren't 100% sure if they're scum for doing it

That's been the vibe I got

[jjh927]

I would agree that hard engaging on a 1V1 with you is a terrible idea for scum

I just don't think it's a good idea for town either

Working so I can't get to everything yet but I wanted to specifically key in on this while it was relevant: Do you want to address the point that Hercule is flailing about not for being misread but for being caught for the wrong reasons? Because that's become the most convincing point to me right now.

I need to read up and reply to other shit after I finish this OT, but consider me leaning towards voting Hercule rn.

I don't think that's a thing people actually do

[jjh927]

One would need an incredible ego to believe there are "wrong" reasons to be caught as scum and elimed in day 1

[jjh927]

Oh, Shirou is saying Okapoka talking about BoP is a bit concerning

[jjh927]

Tell me more about your team's discussions of LLD, Hercule

[jjh927]

Hmm

I don't like LLD's playstyle but I don't think she's scum here

Hercule looks like town to me, but I should add the caveat that I haven't read the previous incarnation of this game so can't really comment if people are judging based on that


I'm still happy voting the worst

Sometimes a player doesn't like another's playstyle, goes overboard trying to remain unbiased, and calls them town.

I'm fairly conscious of this possibility but don't think this is it

[jjh927]

I'm not actually convinced VCA is a real thing in the way it is portrayed

[jjh927]

My philosophy now is around just finding the easiest scum I can find on day 1

IF LLD is scum, she is not the easiest scum to find

I'm leaning town there, but even in a world where I wasn't she would never be the most likely person in the game to flip scum from my point of view

[jjh927]

although I don't think my strategy of voteparking and waiting for people to inevitably join me and follow through works as well in large games

[jjh927]

I'm all about the end results

[jjh927]

Maximum productivity is the best result in the shortest time after all

[jjh927]

I see you stopped reading after that line

[jjh927]

You know, I don't think I play with future days in mind as much any more either

[jjh927]

Like, I'd try my best to come up with a realistic scumteam or w/e on day 1

but even in the best of games I'd be lucky to get 3 out of 4


But anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not gonna vote anyone other than my top scumread this early into day 1, and whether I do otherwise later is a decision for future me

[jjh927]

ugh why is it so much harder to get reads this game than last game? is anyone else feeling the same way? i feel like it should be easier because we've all played with each other before but whenever i see people and think "yeah they're playing similar/not similar to last game" i just wifom the fuck out of myself. maybe the goal is just to forget about last game? but that doesn't seem right either when the info is there and relevant. im probably overcomplicating it somehow

I did not have any reads in the last game and am finding that I have reads in this game

[jjh927]

star for the first person to discover my ritualistic ascension into god hood

if i complete the ritual i will summon Cthulhu and bring down terror upon thy mortal minds

Wait when did the 4th party eldritch abomination role become normal

[jjh927]

I am walking to work rather than cycling so I can shit post on the way but don't expect any actual content from me rn

[jjh927]

There is always an easiest scum regardless of the quality of scumplay in a game

[jjh927]

This being said, the strategy I have been following is to find this easiest scum nice and early, vote park them for the whole day, and wait for the elima. The point is that the easiest scum will get voted off because they aren't difficult to see and I'll have raised awareness, so I won't have to effort and nobody will NK me

I am admittedly growing more convinced this won't work so well in a large theme, especially where players are motivated to appear individually strong as in team mafia

[jjh927]

You should read my most recent game if you have time, Mastina
It is the archetype of my philosophy

[jjh927]

How about this

I will keep an open mind on Saturday/Sunday for my activity spike and you can try to convince me to vote someone other than tw

[jjh927]

I am also voting you because you are scum and I decided you were the easiest scum to catch in the game and therefore the inevitable conclusion of the day

[jjh927]

I think the last part is probably wrong though

[jjh927]

I've read the whole game and continue to keep up with it

[jjh927]

I have decided to do grace you with a readslist but in a new format because I have decided that henceforth I will be either chumreading, ummreading, or scumreading people. I believe this system is self explanatory.

Chums

mastina
Xtoxm
Okapoka
Dannflor
hercule
DrippingGoofball
Winter flakes
InnocentVillager
Hopkirk
Almost50

Umms

Titus
LLD
Cephrir
Ythan

Scums

the worst
AGar
Dunnstral

Disclaimer: The categories of this readslist do not represent a level of confidence on any of these reads. Reads are not ordered by confidence. This is not actually a hard commitment to the CUS system because future me might decide it's stupid.

[jjh927]

no idea what to make of that readslist tbh

What do you make of any readslist

[jjh927]

Honestly I don't know why I've never thought of chumreading people in the past because it just sounds so much more fun

[jjh927]

sometimes a readslist is helpful i guess but usually they are only helpful if accompanied by explanation so that's probably it you should write a line about everyone

That isn't even how I used to do readslists and I'm certainly not starting now

If you want to know about specific reads you can ask about them
That way I get to know who you're interested in and we get specific lines of discussion etc

[jjh927]

Umms is for anyone that I'm struggling to fit into either the chums or scums category for any reason.

I haven't put much thought into why I chumread A50 ngl, I think I've seen some underlying thought processes floating about that look like things A50 thinks about in mafia games

LLD is an ummread because I don't have the faintest idea what alignment LLD is at this time. When I approach it logically I think I could hedge my bets statistically and say she is a chum because most people are town but that line of reasoning hasn't convinced me to say she's a chum, partly because I think she's more likely to be scum than the average player in this game- especially with the number of chumreads I am confident in- but not likely enough to be listed as a scumread for me right now because that is reserved for people I think are very likely to flip scum.

[jjh927]

you have no questions about jjh's readslist? id imagine unless you had a fleshed out/specific reason otherwise, any grouping of reads would want to put a50, flakes, ythan, titus, worst together.

unless you agree with the placements of these 5?

You're gonna have to explain that one to me

[jjh927]

Although I'll have to back out of this convo for now because it is past my bedtime

My friday roleplaying just got called off so maybe my weekend activity spike will come early, but don't count on it

[jjh927]

Then his replacement can come into the game with a wagon

[jjh927]

Yo Mastina

Read this game regarding Titus

[jjh927]

Please do then

That game threw me off thinking I could read Titus

[jjh927]

You have my full attention

Convince me to vote for someone who is not replacing out

[jjh927]

I have decided to do grace you with a readslist but in a new format because I have decided that henceforth I will be either chumreading, ummreading, or scumreading people. I believe this system is self explanatory.

Chums

mastina
Xtoxm

Okapoka
Dannflor

hercule
DrippingGoofball

Winter flakes

InnocentVillager
Hopkirk

Almost50

Umms

Titus
LLD
Cephrir
Ythan

Scums

the worst
AGar
Dunnstral

Disclaimer: The categories of this readslist do not represent a level of confidence on any of these reads. Reads are not ordered by confidence. This is not actually a hard commitment to the CUS system because future me might decide it's stupid.

you townread 6 of the 7 slots that have spent significant time on the lld wagon
join us?

what do you think scum have been doing if lld is town?

No idea. I don't know what scum have been doing if LLD is scum either tbh
But I appreciate you pointing this out to me because I don't think I'd made the connection

[jjh927]

I can confidently call jjh town and am not lying

[jjh927]

VOTE: LLD

[jjh927]

Yeah, I've independently townread the vast majority of the wagon for various different reasons, some of which are based around the LLD-Hercule 1v1 itself and some which are not, but you put them all together and it's an undeniably town-driven wagon

[jjh927]

I wonder who in this game as scum would actually consider a town!LLD elim to be so great an achievement?

[jjh927]

LLD's primary contribution to the game was the hercule wagon; unless hercule is scum, in which case I'd say it's fairly clear scum would not have been sitting back to this based on the current outcome, a towny who loudly tunnels on another towny, and who talks about getting BOPed on that, is not likely to be a significant threat to scum in this game. This is team mafia; we have no shortage of high tier players, players with egos, players with reputations, or any combination of these you feel like.

[jjh927]

I don't really get why people focus on reputation so much for this kind of thing tbh

[jjh927]

Why do you think day 1 will end

[jjh927]

Have your teammates been paying attention to the game? I feel like that would make replacing in to an ongoing game a bit easier

[jjh927]

Fair enough

Well, there's some day left before the now-inevitable LLD elim so you should probably make the most of it and interact with people directly

[jjh927]

Talk to me about someone you have mixed feelings about

[jjh927]

If we're gonna do a non-LLD wagon then I'd rather do Titus than someone that Titus is willing to vote

[jjh927]

VOTE: Titus

[jjh927]

I think Mastina read on you is the most convincing read in the game

[jjh927]

2250

[jjh927]

Tbf I did ask her about the difference between that specific game and this one and it was spelt out pretty well for me

[jjh927]

Just read from here

[jjh927]

VOTE: LLD

[jjh927]

JJ why the switch off Titus and onto LLD?

Because the LLD wagon is bigger and if I've changed my vote once already then I can change it again

[jjh927]

I will take LLD or Titus

I would also vote Bell but I don't think I will need to compromise to any extent

[jjh927]

VOTE: Titus

[jjh927]

Neither of the two more recent flips have changed anything for me since I TRed both of them, but things are probably worth a reread now considering the two main wagons at the end there were both town and some strange things did happen with wagons at eod there

[jjh927]

That is the 1 less recent flip, Dunnstral

[jjh927]

That is the 1 less recent flip, Dunnstral

[jjh927]

The 2 more recent flips are Dannflor and DFG

[jjh927]

DGB even

[jjh927]

Why are you voting for Titus?

Nothing much has changed since the previous day except that I dislike Titus' approach to the LLD wagon now as well

[jjh927]

Titus didn't want the LLD wagon or the DGB wagon but didn't do anything else

[jjh927]

The main unwritten option other than LLD or DGB was Titus at that point

She may have phrased her LLD vote as necessary to get a flip but I think it was survival when she really wanted cred from being correct on whoever got flipped out of those 2
Although I'll admit at the time I thought it was a bus

[jjh927]

The main unwritten option other than LLD or DGB was Titus at that point

She may have phrased her LLD vote as necessary to get a flip but I think it was survival when she really wanted cred from being correct on whoever got flipped out of those 2
Although I'll admit at the time I thought it was a bus

So how does town Titus play it differently?

I mean, I kinda expect town!Titus to be digging in her heels somewhere on a hard scumread and have somewhere to vote rather than just commenting that both major wagons are likely to be town and ending up voting one of them anyway, although I wouldn't explicitly expect the second thing

[jjh927]

Although I suppose Ythan was that on reflection

[jjh927]

Think I might have missed how much of a role Titus had in that wagon building up, actually

[jjh927]

UNVOTE:

[jjh927]

I could probably vote Bell maybe

I need to resort and not sheep mastina

[jjh927]

I really don't think this is within Mastina's scumrange any more
The range of play you can expect from Mastina is directly linked to her real life headspace

[jjh927]

That isn't scum indicative

[jjh927]

3297 is way more likely to come from town than scum

[jjh927]

I would say that drawing attention to yourself and getting people to lay out the reasons why they think you're scum is probably a good way of getting caught if you are scum
Scum are more likely to just deal with the shade and let someone else be the elim rather than reacting so strongly

[jjh927]

I'd be careful of applying that theory too generally, because paranoia is a natural scum reaction.

For shit scum players maybe

But scum are actually more informed than town

[jjh927]

VCA dictates

It really is like a religion

Just because you don't believe in God doesn't mean he isn't there.

If there was a science to VCA then I'd see a page somewhere that was backed by statistics with an ironclad methodology to it that anyone could follow, whereas in practice VCA is just another stick to hit your scumreads with

[jjh927]

3297 is way more likely to come from town than scum

Yeah after you said mafia players can't possibly have egos big enough to think they got caught for the wrong reasons, I'm not really putting any stock in anything you say.

when did he say this?

here and here.

I haven't continued this debate because I didn't think it was exactly productive to, but I've never seen a player complain at the end of the game or in the scum PT about how they've been caught for the wrong reasons

[jjh927]

I'm not gonna deny that mafia players have huge egos

but I mean, in order to think that you could be caught on day 1 for reasons that are wrong, you would have to have an unbelievably large ego and 0 awareness of how playing mafia actually works
It's fun to meme this and say this describes 90% of mafia players but in reality it does not

The real point I was making is that most of the time, when someone makes that push, it's a trash argument and is usually part of a push that is overall trash (since making the argument in the first plays involves acknowledging the weakness of the initial argument.)

[jjh927]

I would say that drawing attention to yourself and getting people to lay out the reasons why they think you're scum is probably a good way of getting caught if you are scum
Scum are more likely to just deal with the shade and let someone else be the elim rather than reacting so strongly

What if we are wagoning a stronger Scum role and the weaker scum wanted to save them? (Not saying it is necessarily the case, but more like showing where your logic is off)

That's not a place where my logic is off. I said it was a good way to get caught when scum, which is still true whether they want to be caught or not

[jjh927]

I wonder if Titus learned anything from pokemon battles regarding vca

[jjh927]

Might give the whole thing a bit more credibility to me if I can see how the process evolves

[jjh927]

Why?

His positioning around the LLD wagon is not internally consistent imo. Going for her first is against his philosophy of mafia and like, now he's claiming he wasn't that into it I guess which doesnt really match up with what his vote was doing yesterday

Ythan has no intention of posting readable content ever. We won't learn much from running him up again. That's a classic vig target.

I think you have misinterpreted my philosophy of mafia

[jjh927]

I thought at that time that there was no way in hell that scum!LLD would have been ran up on day 1, and I think I townread her at the time
The number of my townreads on the LLD wagon changed that

[jjh927]

MOD: STILL BADLY V/LA DUE to SNOW KNOCKING OUT the INTERNET.
VOTE: Titus
I'm current up to N1 and saw the night's flips, but I am still badly restricted here.

This was basically what I just did too, but looking back do you not think Titus pushing for the Ythan wagon in light of TRing both LLD and DGB is town indicative?

[jjh927]

JJH, why did you want to sheep Mastina this game? Is there any prior indication in your posts that you agreed with Mastina on their reads?

Because I am confident Mastina is town, and since I respect her and she was putting more effort into day 1 than I was, plus she was pretty confident on the LLD and Titus reads, PLUS I felt she was more capable of reading those slots, I was happy to sheep

Mastina often functions on a similar wavelength to myself. There really aren't very many people at all who I would just straight up sheep certain reads from but Mastina is one of them. I can't think of others off the top of my head

[jjh927]

And?

[jjh927]

The ostensible strength of belief in her reads may be pretty damn far away from her actual read accuracy, but that read accuracy isn't bad.

I can follow her thought process. She thinks in a very similar way to me but specialises in different info


PEdit: I'm not the sheeping type at all, as I said. I'm not sure if I would use sheeping to justify a miselim because I haven't rolled scum since switching to a lazier playstyle, but historically I don't think I've done that because it would be strange from me

[jjh927]

VOTE: Luca???

Man why did we have to lose both my rocks day 1. The SS Warthog is left without a rudder.

What do you think of jjh today?

What do your 5 shots look like?

Eh. Could still vote there, he sure seems content to just keep doing his thing.

Something like titus, Luca, jjh, bell, winter

If everyone townread me there would be no point in this lazy shit I'm pulling

[jjh927]

You have actually got me working pretty hard here though

[jjh927]

No, I sheeped her on Titus

[jjh927]

LLD was nullish/scumlean until I figured that basically the whole wagon on LLD was town

[jjh927]

Both of the opinions of mine you are highlighting relate directly to other people making arguments I disagree with

[jjh927]

And I thought it was pretty clear I was sheeping Mastina on Titus
I liked her case even though it was highly reliant on Mastina's internal analysis of how Titus plays

[jjh927]

What games have we played together in, Bell?

[jjh927]

The opinion arena one

[jjh927]

The thing that has been taken out of context regarding mafiascum players' egos is me saying that "He's scum that is mad because he was caught for the wrong reasons" is, and always is, a trash argument that will not help you catch scum and is almost never correct.

[jjh927]

and for the other one I was reacting to people calling IV scummy for posts that are towny if you actually think about them critically

[jjh927]

What games have we played together in, Bell?

Mysterybox of silversix
And Why Gun?

I think.

Interesting, those are both in my more recent lazy meta, with mystery box being a bit of a low point

I have regained the ability to hard effort since then if I'm sufficiently engaged with a game, which I think team mafia is likely satisfying currently hence my present activity level

[jjh927]

Meh, I think I'm reaching. I don't really think you were intentionally twiddling your thumbs or at least it feels unlikely.
Have you been scum since your new lazier playstyle took hold, or?

Nope

[jjh927]

My last scumgame was apparently this, in may 2020, but this was A. multiball and B. a godawful game (wonder what the venn diagram for these two looks like?)

This doesn't seem right for some reason but before that was apparently big four mafia in October 2019. How time flies

[jjh927]

I've liked your poking tbh

[jjh927]

I'm gonna get to bed though

[jjh927]

I'm feeling a bit lost rn

There's no-one I'm happy voting for rn

[jjh927]

I don't see why Titus would lie about an announcing babysitter, Mastina

Logically we should have another person be targeted in n2

If it was a lie it would serve no purpose and also become gradually less credible as the game went on

[jjh927]

I know you did just make a gigantic scumcase on Titus but I now chumread her

[jjh927]

Remind me to make some posts later because there's slightly too much stuff I want to reply to while I've been reading on phone as that's not optimal for replying to stuff on previous pages

[jjh927]

Major activity spike begins tomorrow, which is convenient as I believe i have some posts I planned to come back to

I have next week off

[jjh927]

i was targeted by an announcing role that i think is more likely to be scum aligned (especially assuming town!A50 +provides weak Bayesian evidence for town!A50 on a couple of levels)

Do you think it's scum aligned because it's another announcing role or do you think it's scum aligned because of the role itself

[jjh927]

It's completely thrown me off, for one

[jjh927]

I was ready to make a bunch of posts and saw the thread locked
I should probably go back to the things I was going to talk about, actually

[jjh927]

We could copy the exact same votes until we reach the point where people start voting Luca?

[jjh927]

winter flakes (alt of uncrowned

this is irrelevant but

is this a meme im missing out of i swear to god everyone is saying this

It's in the player list

[jjh927]

Wow, being run up to E-1 while on V/LA? Very classy, guys.

VOTE: Luca

Eliminate {bell, Titus, winter flakes, Poka, jjh} in that order and I believe Town wins the game.

Good luck

Am I falling for misdirection if I look specifically at Luca's interactions with all these people?

[jjh927]

Do you have any scumreads besides Titus?

Yes, I've already said I suspect Titus, jjh, Ythan and to a lesser extent Winter Flakes and Hopkirk. I'm also becoming increasingly suspicious of Bell.

[jjh927]

Okay I'll put that away

[jjh927]

To be honest I think I asked as a cry for help so I appreciate the response

[jjh927]

I have conflicted feelings about Hopkirk

[jjh927]

let's flip jjh then

Let's not do that

[jjh927]

i was targeted by an announcing role that i think is more likely to be scum aligned (especially assuming town!A50 +provides weak Bayesian evidence for town!A50 on a couple of levels)

Do you think it's scum aligned because it's another announcing role or do you think it's scum aligned because of the role itself

[jjh927]

Universal backup is a thing

[jjh927]

What's the likelihood of the first role to die being the thing that there is a specific backup for VS a backup just being universal

[jjh927]

VOTE: Winter Flakes

Seems like a good idea

[jjh927]

What's the jjh/Titus thing?

[jjh927]

The above are the bottom 2 entries on my bread list, but now I don't think Scum!Hopkirk comes up with this Announcing Neapolitan as a Scum gambit. It thus follows that my solve is now reduced to exactly 3: AGar, jjh & Bell (but tbh I am still not 100% on Bell, so would rather vote one of the other two)

I don't think it's a scum gambit either, but how does that make hopkirk town? He could just be telling the truth. if the neapolitan had an innocent on him that would be a different story.

Life would definitely be a lot easier if the neapolitan had an innocent on him

[jjh927]

What's the jjh/Titus thing?

She's pushing you hard enough that I don't think you two are Scum together.

Is Titus pushing me now?

[jjh927]

That is a single post

[jjh927]

Pretty sure Ythan hardclaimed VT in a way that could not be misinterpreted

[jjh927]

Is there a standard normal protocol on how many shots a backup of a limited shot role that has used shots gets?

Yep, it's like purchasing a used jigsaw from a charity shop

[jjh927]

Why do you think Hopkirk would lie about something highly provable

[jjh927]

Winter flakes feels better than Agar, but I understand people would probably rather hear that from someone else right now

[jjh927]

A better elim

[jjh927]

Provided the only criteria is the likelihood of hitting scum, of course

[jjh927]

So, you think it would be good scumplay for someone to claim something that would be disproven the following dayphase? And you believe this to such an extent as to call it "fucking basic"?

Tbh, I'd say that NOT doing things that will definitely get you elimed before the end of the game is fucking basic


Is it unreasonable for me to expect you to think things through a bit here? If it's a scum strategy then it's such an overwhelmingly abysmal scum strategy that it's still +town to let it play out, which is itself a reason why it's not a scum strat.

[jjh927]

Everything Mastina is saying right now resonates pretty strongly with me

As an aside, I have said it before but her scumgame at the moment really doesn't look like this

[jjh927]

I mean I understand exactly how she has reached the conclusions she has made

[jjh927]

Things resonate with something else when they are on the same wavelength

[jjh927]

jjh dropped a surefire 100% towntell that guarantees he is town this game. But I admit: without explaining the tell, I'm not sure how to convince others that he is town. In order to explain why he's town I'd have to out the tell, but I don't want to because if I did he'd be the guaranteed nightkill tonight. (The tell is that strong.)

Mastina is undoubtedly the player with greatest awareness of my gameplay on site. I think there's maybe one thing and no more that I could put out that I don't think she'd catch that another player would

[jjh927]

Not in a universal fashion, yet, but yes to a specific player

[jjh927]

Nope

[jjh927]

Why is this inquisition helpful to anyone?

[jjh927]

No because you are unable to or don't want to?

Two things can be true

[jjh927]

Can I ask you to stop

[jjh927]

Your whole angle here has quite overtly been to get Mastina or myself to say something more than needs saying

[jjh927]

jjh dropped a surefire 100% towntell that guarantees he is town this game. But I admit: without explaining the tell, I'm not sure how to convince others that he is town. In order to explain why he's town I'd have to out the tell, but I don't want to because if I did he'd be the guaranteed nightkill tonight. (The tell is that strong.)

Mastina is undoubtedly the player with greatest awareness of my gameplay on site. I think there's maybe one thing and no more that I could put out that I don't think she'd catch that another player would

This is self serving as

fuck

.

You're damn right it is

Does this matter?

[jjh927]

Nah, A50 can and should keep quiet

Assuming they don't know already, scum probably would want to know whether he was using the babysitter aggressively or defensively.

[jjh927]

It doesn't feel like a sheep when I'm the only one voting you

[jjh927]

Who do you think I should be voting

[jjh927]

Okapoka is the only other wagon up at the moment that I would consider and my feelings aren't very strong there

Granted, I don't scumread you very hard, but I do scumread you the hardest

[jjh927]

If I was just sheeping wouldn't I have moved my vote

[jjh927]

If I'm honest it's just the conclusion I rather lazily reached based on revisiting my reads following the Luca flip without rereading the game which is why I don't really have any read strength

[jjh927]

Why are you not at all interested in a titus vote? What has she done that is so impressive to you, without using the word mastina?

The main unwritten option other than LLD or DGB was Titus at that point

She may have phrased her LLD vote as necessary to get a flip but I think it was survival when she really wanted cred from being correct on whoever got flipped out of those 2
Although I'll admit at the time I thought it was a bus

So how does town Titus play it differently?

I mean, I kinda expect town!Titus to be digging in her heels somewhere on a hard scumread and have somewhere to vote rather than just commenting that both major wagons are likely to be town and ending up voting one of them anyway, although I wouldn't explicitly expect the second thing

Although I suppose Ythan was that on reflection

Think I might have missed how much of a role Titus had in that wagon building up, actually

[jjh927]

Actually I think I have been bad at reading names

[jjh927]

I could probably vote agar

I'm not sure what happened but in my head I thought that wagon was Ythan yesterday

[jjh927]

I recall thinking that Bell made an actual effort to place me at some point in the game

Otherwise I'd probably still think the slot was scum from when it was TW

[jjh927]

I should probably be paying more attention here huh

I'm very confident on Mastina town and fairly confident on Titus town. I don't really think Bell is scum here

I'd probably be happier to vote Agar if I have to move off winter flakes (alt of Uncrowned) but that wagon is gone.

[jjh927]

I've fallen for that one once already this game

[jjh927]

I started voting LLD when someone pointed out that everyone on the wagon was town

[jjh927]

It also wasn't true I just thought it was at the time

[jjh927]

@jjh, Winter please move off each other it's Bell, mastina or Titus today

pick one

VOTE: Bell

If Agar is an option that would be better but I don't really think I have the right to try and shift the wagon

[jjh927]

I don't think that's something to be paranoid about

[jjh927]

No I have a second 'guilty' on okapoka

[jjh927]

Feels pretty statistically unlikely tbh since I really don't think there are that many PRs left

[jjh927]

I take it you caught me crumbing my result on Hopkirk and put two and two together?

[jjh927]

VOTE: Okapoka

[jjh927]

lol that's definitely a scumclaim

[jjh927]

I would never consider targeting Ythan because he's just town

Similar kind of reasoning on Titus but I'm not as confident.

Still thought that, given my positive result on hopkirk, that there probably aren't any more PRs and I can functionally be a cop

[jjh927]

But yeah I think Oka trying to cast aspersions on me is pretty damning here

[jjh927]

Although I'm down for massclaim or just having a bit of time in the day to do stuff since it's now activity time

[jjh927]

I mean that I was pretty much always gonna treat a positive result as a guilty at this point

[jjh927]

actually, is it technically a negative result?

[jjh927]

By the way, Mastina, if I'd have tried to get you to claim my role/results, would you have done it?

[jjh927]

That reminds me

Day 1 me totally did find you the easiest scum to elim

[jjh927]

I really shouldn't mix and match my playstyles

If I'm gonna try to cooperate with people then I need to put the effort in
If I'm not putting effort in then I should just stick to being lazy and votepark the scum

[jjh927]

It's impossible in terms of how normal games work, and how it's definitely an announcing neapolitan

[jjh927]

Oh, you might be right

Technically I could be a specific backup for an announcing neapolitan

[jjh927]

I'm not though

That would be very specific

[jjh927]

I think the best two plays for scum!me would have been a fake inno on the other scum or to waste the shot on Ythan who I feel is just clearly town to everyone at this point

[jjh927]

Pretty sure there is a single common reason for both why Oka is resigned to death and why he would try to get me flipped ever

[jjh927]

What world does scum!me target town!you
ever

The chances of you being a town PR are close to 0 however you do the math, so would scum!me target you trying to get an inno on someone who scumreads me? Or did I somehow suspect you were a PR?

I'm pretty sure you haven't crumbed anything anywhere, which is yet another reason this really doesn't look good for you

[jjh927]

jjh is there no doubt in your mind oka is scum?

There's always room for doubt

I think Oka is extremely likely to be scum though

I scumread Oka before
It does not surprise me that I didn't get an inno
Oka's reaction to the non-inno is to try to cast doubt on me even though my result is unchallengable.

[jjh927]

Can you think of any more possible scenarios, Oka?

[jjh927]

I'm down for this whole discussion mediated by IV

I can't think of any more

[jjh927]

Town universal backup or
Scum novice announcing neapolitan (along with dannflor’s role)
Scum announcing meapolitan that targeted dgb n1
Scum backup announcing neapolitan (along with dannflors role)

Are there any more scenarios than this that are possible or is this all of them

[jjh927]

If you're gonna accept your elim, I'm gonna shake you down for content and we need an acceptable base first

[jjh927]

I'm mostly just wondering why Oka hasn't considered the scenario where I could have targeted Oka in N1, but that would involve him being a real commuter

[jjh927]

Why would scum!me ever target you though?

[jjh927]

On the day before massclaim when basically no more PRs are expected, and when a result of non-PR is an innocent?