Open 805 Panic Room Day 1

[Dumb and Dumber]

VOTE: daenarys and dragons

lilith!!!!

both me and auro are planning on playing a super chill and zen game, and not particularly high-efforting
i may or may not be harkening back to my old wallposting style

pedit can u just specify which of you is lilith and which is sircakez?

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

oh you did lol

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

i was gonna vote 'dnd hydra' until i realized that could be construed as a vote on ourself, lol

early townpings on lilith, yay!

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

can i just cite the inverse of the pyp game where i had the exact opposite read off of your first like three posts?

your demeanor/happiness/vibes is different between the two alignments and now that i know what i'm looking for it's p easy to tell the difference

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

fair enuf.

i feel p good abt it tho!

~ skitter

ugh mb

[Dumb and Dumber]

Skitter, I don't think we have actually played together before is that correct? I am looking forward to it

Lilith, have we actually played together??

i do not think so! nice to meet you

Skitter I hope this will be a good game so I can help redeem Tenet

-Dragons

<3 you're awesome sircakez

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Hi penguin!!!!!

What's with the inifnity votes?

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Hi!

What’s wrong the infinity votes?

I dont get either of them

Also i didnt pick the avi, auro did

Also that is probably a town post from yyotta

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Both votes seem to have a level of intent behind them that i dont understand given what infinity has posted

@infinity i have exactly no meta on yyotta but it doesnt feel like a post scum makes

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Infinity are u talking abt my lilith read or my yycotta read?

Penguin i only remember two: shadowslug (called infinity's post scummy) and green crayon (quoted an infinity post in the post he voted him)

That's not to say that they're *bad* votes per se but rather this is something to latch onto and talk abt!

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

I'm p sure penguin's was a meme acknowledging that

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Infinity are u talking abt my lilith read or my yycotta read?

Your yyotta read

That's not the basis of my yyotta read tho?
I'm not folllowing, i'm sorry

@penguin i dont remember murderkitty's and i therefore wasnt really asking abt that one lol

I would be voting infinity here if that wasnt the e-1 vote i think

Lilith i'm not sure who the mod is gonna count it for but i'm assuming infinity's is an oversight and penguin's is a meme that he shall correct at some point

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Uh its just not a post scum makes?

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Right its 6 and not 5 to flip, i was thinking 5 for some reason

VOTE: infinity

~ skitter

Pedit i thought was a reaction to ur recent posting from just now

[Dumb and Dumber]

Gc why *did* u vote infinity?

Infinity what do u think of my lilith read btw?

~ Skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

What about these posts led gc to vote infinity?

Feel like we should don a sleuth hat and grab a magnifying glass.

But y infinity tho?

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Nah fam

Y the unvote?

~ skitter

Pedit shadowslug
Look at all of the marvelous content i have generated via asking abt infinity votes!!!

Pedit fair enuf

[Dumb and Dumber]

Uh its just not a post scum makes?

~ skitter

nervous isn't the right word but this seems like you're getting annoyed at their questioning of you in a defensive way

Eh it was more that i dont have words to elborate than being defensive i would say

I already have townpings on 4 slots!

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Yes i'm always interested

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

The post in question was abt yyotta and not infinity, just for clarity

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Oh wait i misread what lilith was saying nm

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Can we talk more about skitter instead

Murdercat was this abt me or shadowslug?

[Dumb and Dumber]

Shadow is one of my 4 townreads

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Townpings whatever

~ skitter

VOTE: gc

[Dumb and Dumber]

His posts dont feel like ones (newb) scum make

(Sorry i know u just said u dont like that but that's where ghe read is coming from

Same with yyotta)

~ skitter

Pedit dont like the shadow vote

[Dumb and Dumber]

The getting annoyed abt being called new was townie, as was the tone in the post below. I think (newb) scum gets defensive there, instead of cavalierly answering that way. He's had a few good-tone posts now, not just this one

I don’t really think skitter came off as defensive, maybe like.. confused that infinity assumed a reason for her read that wasn’t true and wasn’t stated. Can we instead talk about why shadowslug seems to think her response is “annoyed in a defensive way”?

- Daenerys

Well now this just seems like you're inviting other people to question me rather than doing the dirty work yourself

~

Lilith u feel like ur trying to sort shadow
Gc feels like he's trying to capitalize on flipbait

Aside, lilith, do u have a read on me yet?

(Not super important just curious)

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

ugh you made me get on a computer for this one

I'm skeptical of "this person is vibing in the early game therefore they're town" reads, they may work for some people but in general I haven't found them to be accurate.

in this post, i read this as infinity saying my read on yyotta was based on feeling that she was 'vibing in the early game and therefore she's town', but that's not what my yyotta read was based on (it was, however, similar to the reasoning i gave for lilith, which is why i asked who he was talking abt in that post)

that's why i said i disagreed (or whatever i said), because while i did make the yyotta read, this wasn't the reasoning behind it, and i wanted to make sure he got it right / wasn't confused

(i'm like actually attempting to use words to explain things instead of just making vague declarative statements without further elaboration, everyone should be v proud)

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

@infinity i have exactly no meta on yyotta but it doesnt feel like a post scum makes

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

i don't fully know how to explain that one, it just doesn't

it's just like a little too 'bold' for (newb) scum to make i think; scum would have to feel p darn comfortable to have an entrance like that, and i'm not sure i see it

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Hi!

What’s wrong the infinity votes?

Am I scummy?

Also lol yvotta

Skitter do you have meta on yvotta?

I didnt like him asking if he was scummy here

VOTE: daenerys

I also felt like this was bad timing for a lilith vote (as i think she waa fairly town for her / hadnt done anything scummy just then. And i kinda think he should be giving my lilith read some level of credence but perhaps that is too egocentric of me to expect, esp. at this stage)

But then ir was clarified that this was a clarification of his earlier dnd vote, so i didnt mind it as much

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Not particularly

Maybe i should but i dont really

Gc the thought has crossed my mind that u may be trying to buddy me

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Yo yo yo whadduuuuuup my glip glops

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

That's fair. I happen to think you're pretty town after 188

Perfect.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

{Shadow, Da&Dr, YvottaCat, Infinity420}
All town, unordered by confidence.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

{GC, PP, Murderkitten} is the bloc I currently prefer never be hooded* not necessarily that I find every member in the bloc scummy as of now.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Ah man. Auto I liked skitter. Don’t ruin it.

Hey what's up Penguin, long time
You're only in that bloc

for now

because of my inability to sort you

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

{GC, PP, Murderkitten} is the bloc I currently prefer never be hooded* not necessarily that I find every member in the bloc scummy as of now.

-Dumbass

Wat the heck is hooded

If mafia bomb dies does mafia goon also die if they aren't in the hood

Newbie

Slug promotes to a strong townread now!

*to me, gotta discuss with Skitz

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

If mafia bomb dies does mafia goon also die if they aren't in the hood

Yes - everyone outside the hood dies. This means that if we can successfully lim the bomb today, we automatically win.
This also means the bomb might probably make higher effort at appearing town than usual.
Green Crayons seems to fit that profile to me right now, and I'd like to have more pressure on that slot.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Btw I will want to be hooded only if Not_Mafia is in it too

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

What will happen if the goon is recruited?

Everyone outside the hood dies, and it turns nightless.
The people in the hood would have to find and vote out the goon(s) who managed to squirm in.

[Also I think tr on Salsabil for the slip]

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

What slip?

Using the phrase "the goon" instead of "a goon" (there are 2); I think as scum there's a low chance you unintentionally write that.

-P

[Dumb and Dumber]

Whoops, I meant to sign -Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Oh, I mistook about goons number. I thought we have one goon here when I was reading the setup. After seeing your reply, I checked the setup again and found that we have two goons.

I figured, and I think you're town for that so woooo!

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Green Crayons, what are your thoughts on Murderkitten? Please re-quote if I have missed them in earlier posts.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Newbie Slug promotes to a strong townread now!

*to me, gotta discuss with Skitz

skitz agrees!

~

It feels naive to TR skitter this early, but I'm gonna do so anyway.

it might be but eh!

~

Skitter tends to always read that way

eh not really, you just got to witness two big outliers

~

hth thats a bad reason to not vote me, i'm town and not yet in the neighborhood so my death on a rush elimination would actually be pretty useful for town info

i do not like this post
and the nm lolhammer threat is real and looming

~

i have townvibes to some degree or another:
- the other dnd hydra
- murdercat (eh probably the least out of everyone i'm listing here)
- infinity
- shadow slug
- salasbil
- yyotta

which is probably too many for this stage of the game, but there you go!

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

I'm guessing that last thing is salsabil

Why would that be Salsabil?

salisbury, salsabil, there are some similarities on a grapheme level

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

I am voting crayons! He is my top sr rn!

~ skitter

Sigh

[Dumb and Dumber]

What am i supposed to be questioning him abt? He hasnt done much to change my mind

[Dumb and Dumber]

lol yes this is very town behavior

Oh i thought this was abt me

I still feel lowkey buddied :/

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Ok fair maybe i'm misusing the term

I feel like u may be scum who realized that it's easier to townread / try to get on my side than to push me

If that makes sense

~ skitter

Pedit murdercat is my lowest tier townread and it largely depends on how wide his scumrange is

[Dumb and Dumber]

i mean, he's being scummy, and i voted him
i don't feel the need to pick apart everything that he's doing that i don't particularly like

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

and when she said she expected me to trust her read on you (which, yeah, I do)

k good, i prob would have scumread u if u didn't

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

y?

[Dumb and Dumber]

tbf i kinda agree with u on cakez

but lilith is townie for her! (i think!)
(or at least her activity last night was)

so for now i feel good on the slot

i like gc votes!

fwiw i think if he's scum he's probably (?) not the bomb

shadowslug i think ur being really townie too

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

for the first, i know

for the second - hmmmmm? what do you mean?

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

huh
ok interesting

would it be accurate to say you think you'd go for the head-to-head fight even if you think it would be easier to go the buddying route as scum?

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

actually let me ask this a slightly different way: how hard do you think it is to misflip town!me

(apologies for being so ego-centric >.>)

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

oh no i think you're a scum penguin this is very sad

~

was that one scum game with a dude named blackvoid by any chance?

i think the thread consensus had kinda gotten to the point right around the time you decided to townread me (albeit not as explictly as it is now - tbf it hasn't even been said explicitly at all much tbh, but you recognize it kinda is, which is the point). and i think it's easier for scum who recognizes that to just dump a townread on me (she's wrong town!!!!) than try to pick a fight with me over my read on you

pedit agree with u on penguin tho

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

VOTE: penguin

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

I don't see how penguin is scummy? It mostly seems like he isn't playing

indeed

@skitter how/why is this penguin different from jk9++ penguin?

- Daenerys

his content-to-fluff ratio

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

even weirder that that's your response when we've agreed in other games that this is an accurate way to read you (including said referenced pyp)

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

And what’s my primary focus on D1 there skitteR?

idk what ur referring to
~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

We’ve had one vc this entire game. There is nothing building for analysis at this point because it’s not being captured.

meh i guess i can see it for now, but i still think you're scummy
VOTE: gc

[Dumb and Dumber]

{Salsabil Faria, Shadowslug} are both confident townreads, and if I'm the neighborizer these would be my first picks.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Flavor Leaf. You?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Notscience being in this game as an alt would definitely be interesting.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

confused how lillith could be confused about whether two players who are clearly not in this game are in this game

Yeah, appears a bit posturing.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

If I thought that was a serious answer I'd be pretty concerned at Auro giving his thoughts on who the Mason is.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

My post was basically that, no?
And to 2. no, and not interested in discussing this further either.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

No; I was referring to my own response in 480 as obviously not-serious.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

The posts asking to cease "cutesy joking" seemed to imply that you knew it was not-serious, and that seemed a mild overreaction.
The lack of initial concern about my responding to the horrible rolefishing question -if serious- rather than whether it was a secret alt was a little interesting.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

"Initial" being a key word, Lilith

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

General theory question: do scum "posture" ever? If so, why?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

ok I mean, I was on a work call and only had enough time for the one post? my confusion overshadowed pretty much any other response I had, because again, all brain energy spent on parsing whether or not it was a joke? am I expected to always have a perfectly logical reaction to literally everything?

I'm talking in the past tense - was my having that impression at the time unfair?

..... yes? what?
Why call me out for posturing if you don’t think it’s scum-indicative?

The same answers for why scum might be motivated to "posture" in general can apply to your question
And I am not implying that I believe it's not scum-indicative.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I had the reaction you think I should have, just not right at that second

Yup, making it a little interesting.
Pt 2. to appear towny? To make the other slot look scummier? [these are also the same answers to why scum would posture in general, which makes me wonder what one would expect asking that]

In any case, as to

current

thoughts - I'll be discussing it with Skitz.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

That assumption is unnecessary.

As I said, I'm discussing things with Skitz because whatever thoughts I may have might not be entirely fair.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

weird and cagey

Something something method to madness! Alternatively consider that I'm role-playing what my hydra sign suggests

Thoughts on my thoughts that {Salsabil, Shadow} are strong townreads?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

This interaction between lilith and auro seems rather pointless

Which is why I was reluctant to pursue it further.

Thoughts on my thoughts that {Salsabil, Shadow} are strong townreads?

I certainly agree on shadow, salsabil's actual content has been scummy to be but I buy the townslip.

Great! I'd love to discuss your concerns about her actual content too, though.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I think newbscum is more likely to be lost/confused in the early game than newbtown, she's also been asking a bunch of questions that haven't really led anywhere yet.

I think her drop in activity might explain the latter. Fair enough otherwise.

Still just feels like nonsense non-content

Yup - were you expecting any other answer here, GC?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Lilith

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Would a lack of townread at this stage also be considered a scumclaim?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

depends. I still expect skitter to be reading me as town.

Well, good thing I'm outsourcing this read to Skitter then!

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

[redacted] >.>

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

{Salsabil Faria, Shadowslug, Infinity420}

Pedit: I was also a mega tryhard, I'm adopting a much loser style these days. Zen.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Looser* although that would fit too LOL

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

ok i'm catching up/around a bit now

lilith i skimmed a bit

do u want to chat abt anything?

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Isn't skitter really good at scum? Like she is surface level townie sure but I am worried about that.

yes. good rule of thumb is to never townread skitter D1 (sorry skitter)

- Daenerys

this is true

sorry I’m more interested in auro as I don’t really think I’ll have much success sorting you (see above). Not really anything top of mind for me to ask you

- Daenerys

ok. fwiw from what i read i think ur interaction with him was a bit scummy and i'm sad

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

yes i am good at town and scum, don't townread me for surface-level townpings, etc, etc, etc

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

let me actually read and then you'll get more than half-assed things like 'scumpings!!!!'

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

I didn’t realize that’s what that was. however:

can we 1) not discuss roles

what is this if not saying to stop discussing it?

so to summarize:
- you are not actually reading my posts
- you are calling my reaction fake
- you are calling my response to you calling my reaction fake fake as well

you may not be interested in pursuing this line of conversation, but I am. please explain to me what you think my motivations are for “posturing” like this and for my post not being “serious.”

same goes for gc.

- Daenerys

lilith ig it largely comes from this interaction

and i hope it's ok to ask but are you, like, ok? like irl?

this whole thing on your end feels like a p extreme overreaction to what auro said, and while you do seem to later take back some of it upon realizing fl/notscience are not actually players in the game (i.e. that auro made a joke), you just seem very prickly and antagonistic here in a way that i'm not expecting

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

And now back to my original question: what motivation do you think I have, as either alignment, to “posture” here?

- Daenerys

and fwiw i don't think you're posturing (like as either alignment you could have forgotten/not realized that those weren't players), so i think asking what your motivation inherently is a bit faulty as a question, because i don't think you did it purposefully

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

i think i was the ic in yyotta's newbie game >.>
this is going back to when we still had ic's

i'm p sure she was mis-flip-y day1 and i spent most of day1 arguing that she was town flipbait, she got voted out anyways, and then i was under pressure for white-knighting her afterwards

fun times

still kinda think she's townie here

~ skitter

pedit i was wrong on lilith like my first time seeing her scumgame but other than that i'm p spot on
the last time we played (the last iteration of pyp x|y) i had an accurate read off of like her first three posts and proceeded to spend the rest of the game trying to get her flipped, which nobody listened to; the slot either endgamed or was voted out like day5 or something i dont' remember, i was dead at that point

either way i was very, very, very confident on it and was right

[Dumb and Dumber]

and i hope it's ok to ask but are you, like, ok? like irl?

I mean..... no? work got worse, not better, so

- Daenerys

<3 <3 <3

i don't *think* auro was implying that deliberately. i can't like speak for him or whatever but when we were chatting on discord earlier that's not the vibe i got

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

The posts asking to cease "cutesy joking" seemed to imply that you knew it was not-serious, and that seemed a mild overreaction.
The lack of initial concern about my responding to the horrible rolefishing question -if serious- rather than whether it was a secret alt was a little interesting.

-Dumbass

oh maybe he did
idk that's not how i read it
i can't like defend what he was thinking so i don't really have an answer for you, but we both did feel like you overeacted for it, but i am ok with recognizing that there could be out-of-game factors prompting that
like it looks surface-level scummy to me but i'm not sure it actually is if that makes sense

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

I don’t have like, extensive meta. have played one additional game with him as town though, and to me he was like, couched in reasonableness and logic.

- Daenerys

remember that time we were partners and he was town and totally caught both of us and it was really awkward until we murderized him?

fun times!

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Yeah, I think the obvious candidates for cat-scum doing a weird strategy to draw attention to herself and away from the bomb is either shadow or me, just in terms of votes and who has garnered attention.

Can't think of anyone else who would fit the bill, but maybe infinity?

fwiw i kinda you're doing just that >.>

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

i sent untrod tripod a pm r.e. redacted to see what's legal and not

[Dumb and Dumber]

fwiw i scoured all the op's and can't tell if it counts as 'ongoing' or not

~ skitter

mb
also yeah untrod tripod said something similar so out of site and out of mind for me

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

*sight ugh

[Dumb and Dumber]

Daenerys,

That was all there was to it -- at the time, I felt that you were overreacting to what was clearly a joke, in an effort to look towny -- which fit my definition of

posturing

.

That's it.

With all love, and maybe my perception of this is wrong, but I feel you're being hostile (maybe understandably so?) towards me, and I do not wish to engage directly with you as of right now. Apologies if that doesn't help you sort my slot, I won't protest if you scumread us for it.

---

{Salsabil Faria, Shadowslug, Infinity420, Gamma Emerald?}

Inviting objection to my townreads

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Lilith <3
I hope ur ok

(On a game note i probably disagree with auro and am leaning town on you)

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

I'll leave this here by pointing out that they were two independent things - the other part being, yes, I found it mildly interesting that the initial concern was different from what I expected town would have in that position.

Does that mean I assume town would have perfectly reasonable, correct reactions all the time?

No.

Scum can have the "correct" reaction, town can have a different reaction.

Yet, reacting in a way that one doesn't expect town would is a valid reason to suspect that slot *to a small degree*. It's unfair to call that slam-dunk evidence of someone being scum, but that is not what I did! I just found it mildly interesting, as I said.

Pedit: No, after our discussion I also tr the slot. All this has been explanation of what I thought at the time, which people have been asking for - not reflective of my current thoughts.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

auro specifically called it posturing and won’t explain why he thinks so.

this arguing is getting lilith pissed off already
So if other D&D hydra could do something else unless something relevant has changed I'd appreciate it

{Salsabil Faria, Shadowslug, Infinity420, Gamma Emerald?}

Inviting objection to my townreads

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Gc you still think shadow is scum?

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

VOTE: penguin

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

ok and the followup is: i feel like he's exhibiting a certain level of newbie-townie-earnestness in solving. do you not see that? and can i get a quick tldr on why you're scumreading him again?

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

If we can form consensus on townreads, Shadowslug, we can just elim in the PoE and watch scum squirm (if we're right).

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

<3
it is a sad day indeed for i believe you're a scum penguin

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

tbf i think the gc post you quoted was r.e. my post about shadowslug, and not about my vote on you
i do agree with u that he is a good vote tho
(i'd actually switch back probably but i want a vc first and i am Lazy rn)

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

GC was talking about shadow but like. He's not engaging with people who disagree with him on shadow, he's just tunneled on obvtown because he has no way to walk it back. He also has no reaction to the SRs on him and townies usually hate it when I SR them, whereas scum know that my gut read is valid. He isn't town

indeed

my vote is on gc in, like, spirt but i'm not voting as it's e-1 and i feel like with no-mafia in the game that's getting a little too close to potentially ending the day and i'm not quite ready for that yet

also i townread gamma to some extent

also if gc is scum i think he's explicitly *not* the bomb so maybe we want to try to find the bomb instead idk

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

ty for the vc notsci

[Dumb and Dumber]

on a pagetop too!

>.>

[Dumb and Dumber]

1. His slippery responses to Dragons
2. His unvote of Infinity
3. The “lol I look better than you” interjection to my Q to penguin

(2) I had to scroll all the way to the top of his ISO to see, and was it something you mentioned or questioned him about earlier? Do you feel there's any special motivation for him to do that as scum?

I couldn't really find (1) and (3) from an ISO skim, and couldn't find any more from your ISO either. Can you please quote the relevant parts?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Not_Mafia *prod* where be the shitposts? Both of us are disappointed.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

@gc, some shadowslug posts i liked:

Spoiler:

i might be new but that doesnt mean you should say "newbie did this" for every move i make

it's like saying the "new guy" when you have a new person at school. it's a little patronising

i like the tone of this one, i'm not sure (new) scum is quite so stalwart in defending themselves against something like this
(i.e. i think they've be a little bit meeker/ more defense - and apologies for calling you new in the post about just that, but it's informing my read here >.>)

~

Well now this just seems like you're inviting other people to question me rather than doing the dirty work yourself

similarly, i like the tone here

~

Had to reread to make sure I read the situation correctly

Here's my intepration:

Skitter: yyotta is townie
Infinity: I disagree with reads of this nature
Skitter: I didn't make that read

The problem is skitter immediately defends their thought process rather than trying to correct Infinity. As far as i can see skitter never says why Yyotta's opening is not scum. It was immediately on the defensive. That's why it pinged me.

i like the analysis of this one

~

i like his pushback on your push on him

like idk i can go and quote more but his analysis is good, his tone is good, his line of questioning is good.
i don't see much to scumread here

[Dumb and Dumber]

~ skitter ^ my apologies

[Dumb and Dumber]

GC was talking about shadow but like. He's not engaging with people who disagree with him on shadow, he's just tunneled on obvtown because he has no way to walk it back. He also has no reaction to the SRs on him and townies usually hate it when I SR them, whereas scum know that my gut read is valid. He isn't town

What a bad take.

I’ve talked through my suspicions with you and murder off the top of my head. Just bc you’re not convinced doesn’t mean I’m not engaging.

There’s nothing to say about the SRs on me. They’re wrong and I’m not even sure what they’re based on other than ppl not liking my shadow suspicions/sticking with those suspicions. I also don’t really care about the votes on me. But I also am not getting suspicious vibes from anyone in particular who is voting me bc of their vote, so I’m doubly uninterested in beating someone up for their bad gc vote to see if I can shake out a scum.

ig one other thing i'll say is that i've felt a couple of times now that i've brought up concerns r.e. your play and they haven't been addressed (or, to say it another way, i feel like you've ignored a few suspicious i've brought up)

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

gc do you have a read on infinity atm?

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

also i do appreciate that you elaborated upon your shadow read
and while i get how you view it as scummy your scumread feels almost technical if that makes sense? like you're going 'well he should have done X but Y happened instead so he's scum' and like on the surface it kinda sounds ok but it's just not super convincing, or like, it doesn't take into account things like his tone or perspective

like it kinda feels like you found a couple of 'gotcha' and are harping on those, but i'm not sure that the 'gotcha' actually makes him scummy, if that makes sense?

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

VOTE: MURDERKITTY

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

murdercat, when you're done, would you be able to give a tldr on your reads?
i feel like i don't have a super great sense for where you're holding

and i hope things are going well irl!

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

good gif

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

well, uh, those are takes ig?

murdercat can you also do like a little self-assessment for me: how do you view your towngame? your scumgame? which do you think is better and why?

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

gc i appreciate your answers, ty
i don't really think i agree with you on shadowslug much at all, but this back-and-forth has made me feel like this is a read you believe in (or, technically/more accurate: i'm still not *sure* this is a real read, but i think it is more now than i did before, if htat makes sense)

either way i think i want to move away from the gc/shadowslug stuff and now work on MURDERKITTY
also i'm p sure gc isn't the bomb if he's scum so he probably (?) is not the flip today

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

thanks MURDERKITTY

i don't mean to be rude or offensive or anything but from what i hear you're supposed to be p good at town and, well, your readslist was a bit Not Good and shallow
so that's a little concerning to me

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

ok but my point is that your reads are p bad
i'm not sure that really addresses or explains that

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

although that vote is pretty questionable ...

penguin you're beating me to everything cuz i have to keep switching accounts >.>

i think your'e a town penguin now btw!

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

I KNOW IT JUST TOOK SOME TIME

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

ig the vote itself i dont' inherently hate but the reasonign sounds like you just made it up in order to join the wagon

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

oddly enuf although i hate the vote this interaction makes me think gc is lowkey townie?
this is kinda confusing

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

ya i'm gonna stick with my MURDERCAT vote for now

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

lol. you have a great sense of humor

also that was probably a townie reaction

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

That he didn't have a good reason to vote infinity in the first place is NBD. Like, no shit. It was very early game. The problem for the unvote is that nothing changed about infinity's play between the vote and unvote. Also that his later justification for being afraid about a quick elim are BS, per the above.

The other two points (throwing suspicion elsewhere, but no vote) are suspicious because shadow had already displayed, per his infinity vote, that he is a player who is fine putting a vote down for less-than-stellar reasons. Note: that isn't a problem, especially early game! It's good! I support it!

But by unvoting infinity while simultaneously shading skitter without a skitter vote is inconsistent with how shadow plays the game with his votes. That is--if he's a town player who throws down votes early to get a reaction, then presumably he would have unvoted infinity and voted skitter. Because he didn't act in conformity to his initial play suggests that he is being calculating with his votes.

Thanks for the explanation! my bad, I should've read closer. But I feel this line of reasoning is problematic because I can't imagine what

scum

motivation he'd have to unvote in that manner.

Do you agree that town can be inconsistent sometimes?

If so, how would one distinguish between

town

inconsistency and

scum

inconsistency? And this also means that inconsistency does not imply calculated play, no?

To me, scum inconsistency is backed by playing to an agenda / to force unnatural positions. I see neither of that here. And it's a very plausible town thought process.

Scum on that position on a mislim wagon would probably

love

for the wagon to go through, as it only benefits scum (little info to the town and a lot of suspicion on the hammerer), and unvoting breaks momentum. The thought that scum would unvote to "stay off a miselim wagon" that early rings hollow: if you have empirical evidence of scum players doing this early in games, I'd love to see it.

I'll respond to the other parts in a bit, but in the meantime: did you recognize that you've played with me a few months earlier in a Vi-moderated game?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Is dumbass Auro? I recognize the name and know we've played together but don't remember the game or much other than that.

Yes town are inconsistent. In how they view suspicious behavior--for example, they see Player A do X and find it suspicious, but Player B does X and it's not suspicious.

I don't recall seeing town inconsistent in how they actually play--for example, how they feel about the sanctity of voting. Some players are very careful with their votes. Others are not. I'm unfamiliar with town being inconsistent in that type of play within a single segment of the game. I don't see a town-based reason for this inconsistency (contrast with differing views on whether "X" action is suspicious, which can be influenced by subjective feelings toward the players who are both doing X). I do see a scum-based reason for this inconsistency as I noted.

Empirical evidence... no? Other than some very special starlets who Have Some Time On Their Hands, does anyone? Do you have empirical evidence showing that scum love to be on early game mis-elim flash wagons?

Finally, we just have different views of what scum would like to do with regard to any early mis-elim wagon, probably because we personally play scum differently. I think a newer scum player, like shadow, would be more cautious about being on an early game D1 quick elim wagon.

Yes, I was scum in that game and limmed D1 - so I was mildly curious at the way you approached (or didn't ) me.

The town-based reason for an inconsistency is simply lack of full thought put into it. I don't see any evidence that Shadowslug is usually someone very careful with their votes.

I think I'd be able to search and bring up empirical evidence for scum being fine with being on early mislim wagons, just because it sounds like a great position to be in. I had asked for empirical evidence to see if the opposite scenario (where scum don't like it) is less unlikely than I feel it is.

Shadow's play has been direct and unabashed - don't you think that is inconsistent with being self-consciousness on wagon placement?


-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Happy cake day N_M!

Is voting without nicknames a scumtell for Not_Mafia :megathonk:

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Might I interest you in a Murderkitten wagon

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Right now, perhaps that he's appeared elsewhere on site but hasn't responded to the wagon on him?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Happy cake day N_M!

Skitter says happy cakeday too

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I did respond? What do you want from me?

Looking forward to hearing about your scumreads!

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

i still want to wagon MURDERKITTY, he's feeling kinda underwhelming to me rn

sorry to see shadowslug go <3

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

catboi!!!!

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Murdercat probably isn't the bomb though

Catboiii!

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Nay, while the ultimate chance of hitting the bomb D1 is low I think the process itself has other valuable outcomes

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Salsabil are you keeping up with the game?

-D

[Dumb and Dumber]

Wagon tension. Bomb may have a general idea of how to approach the game, but wagon cycles and aggression can draw useful reactions from them (or) their partners.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

auro is confusing

My methods are indeed mysterious!

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Sorry for going slow,

No probs take your time

"Dumbass" is Auro (me), I go by he/him
Skitter30 signs directly, and goes by she/her

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

i'm not sure that's a scum tell for him tho; i'm p sure i've seen him do that as town many times

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

What I'm seeing is a ton of shade being throw along with excuses to turn around on TRs when it's convenient. Voting me, voting TC despite a GC being a TR earlier, going back on a TR on skitter. The GC vote in particular was an opportunity to add pressure back to that wagon when it looked like things might turn towards him instead.

the thing is that there was a load of context and posts in between 199 and the post that penguin voted gc (i think 619) and so i think it's a little disingenuous to just condense all of that to 'voting GC despite GC beting a TR earlier'
i don't think he's long-term really changed from his townread on me either

and i don't know if he ever had a townread on you that he went back on by voting you?

he's currenetly townreading me and otherwise idk offhand but i townread him so all's good

~ skitter

ugh sorry

[Dumb and Dumber]

why does the fact that there's now a wagon change the fact that you didn't originally find him scummy?

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

i think i was the ic in yyotta's newbie game >.>
this is going back to when we still had ic's

i'm p sure she was mis-flip-y day1 and i spent most of day1 arguing that she was town flipbait, she got voted out anyways, and then i was under pressure for white-knighting her afterwards

fun times

still kinda think she's townie here

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

i'm leaning towards that, ya

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=77839 this one for reference

[Dumb and Dumber]

@lilith there was a night last week where he just kept posting exactly what i was thinking, and i would go to post and like in the previews insaw he wrote my very thoughts. Not once but like multiole times that night

That makes me feel like he's approaching the game the same way i am, and thus with a townie pov

This game stalled weirdly


~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

My heart is no more in a MURDERKITTY lim :/

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

My heart is no more in a MURDERKITTY lim :/

-Dumbass

Why?

I'm not sure I can articulate this well, but I feel like he could've (/would've) maintained higher consistency in terms of activity and pushes despite the other game as scum, as opposed to having to form genuine reads (especially when under pressure).

I do want to wagon Not_Mafia for the lulz at the moment.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I am obvtown

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Gut/tone

(I was kidding)

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Both heads of this hydra believe Gamma is towny.
My personal reason is Gamma's chillness and reaction to my townbloc

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

{Green Crayons, MURDERKITTY, Not_Mafia, YvottaCat}

Correction to above: Skitter isn't sure on Gamma~ rn

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I'll just point this out: the top townread is always the best recruit, and it doesn't matter if scum are also targeting them for the kill.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Most likely we are not gonna get the bomb here

Not with that attitude we won't!

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Sorry :/

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Shall I go back to MURDERKITTY?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

VOTE: MURDERKITTY


-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

You're welcome Ponglin

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Will catch up later, but I can finally say this.
I was in this game where town got banned for game throwing: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=85633

It was heated and took literally all of my energy. I though it would end before this game started, but it turns out scum didn't know I was their traitor and they kept trying to elim me.
I am looking forward to mentally committing to this game.

@catboi: do you not think the other game could have caused that lack of vigor?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Ehhh, maybe different priorities led to different energy levels, but I don't think it's enough to override my suspicion of his posting so far.

Fair enough, and to an earlier q: I was just picking at his thought process.

As to why N_M: I wanted to see where it goes.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I think his answer was fair and does not impact my read on him either way

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Responses to information that can weaken/contradict someone's stance can be AI at times

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I do not wish to engage directly with you as of right now. Apologies if that doesn't help you sort my slot, I won't protest if you scumread us for it.

Because I still feel this.

My heart's not in a MURDER murder but I'm fine with voting him anyway, and Skitter (and Penglin!) are too

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Back in 2016-2017 there used to be people who claimed they could read NM, has that art been lost to time?

Need more posts!

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

although that vote is pretty questionable ...

penguin you're beating me to everything cuz i have to keep switching accounts >.>

i think your'e a town penguin now btw!

~ skitter

I KNOW IT JUST TOOK SOME TIME

~ skitteR

@lilith u asked abt my penguin tr, it culminated around here - at that point we'd had the same exact thoughts over a few hours, several times

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

@skitter what implications do you think the stalled gamestate has?

either MURDERKITTY is scum and the wagon is stalling cuz scum don't want him to die
or he's town and scum think the push is inevitable

i don't know which yet, which is why i didn't really try to draw any conclusions

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

I was hoping for something more helpful, since “gut/tone” doesn’t really help me read either of you.

Thoughts on auro’s posts?

- Daenerys

i mean tbf on my end this is a bit reductive, because that's not the reasoning i gave
(as i wrote this out i realized that you may have only been talking about penguin's read on me, and not also mine on him, so nm)

are you still like mad at auro from last week?

~

also: salsa is like super transparently beyond townie

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

You're welcome Ponglin

-Dumbass

oh i shall hence forth call you Ponglin as well, so now we have skitteR, and MURDERKITTY, and hopefully by the end of the game we'll have cute nicknames for everyone!

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

sorry lilith - mad may not have been the right word, maybe i should have said like 'annoyed' or something
i dont' think you're personally mad with him either, to clarify

he's trying to take some distance to ensure that the game doesn't end up in a 1v1, which we both feel might have happened if he wasnt' actively trying to de-escalate

do you want to try to talk to me to sort our slot instead?

~

infinity, her post on murdercat and how she went analyzing him i think just abt never comes from (new) scum i think

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

y townread gamma?

~ skitteR

[Dumb and Dumber]

@Daenerys:
Okay. I was under the impression that you were upset, and whatever I was saying was making you more upset. I wasn't enjoying our conversation even though I usually love that kind of engagement. I didn't feel like getting into that kind of fight, and hence wished to disengage. Hope RL got better!

Note that I'm following a

much

looser "Zen" playstyle compared to last year , opting to trust my gut and intuition over aggressive active hunting. I'll address some points that you put forth earlier:

• Question to Catboi
  : He formed a read that I thought should logically be weakened to some part by the information I presented. I didn't notice he mentioned it in his case. In retrospect, even if I did, my question would still stand due to my belief that that factor could have
  higher
  importance than what was given to it in his post.
  
  There are many ways people can react to information presented this way - they can ignore it, re-evaluate based on it, double down and argue against it, etc. and while not
  every
  response is AI, they sometimes are! Catboi admitted that that point might be true, and explained that it still wouldn't be enough to shift his overall position on the slot. That's a fine reaction to me. If he had instead argued the premise that MURDERKITTY probably had differing energy levels and that it was surely a stall technique (or something along these lines) I probably would have thought it's a little scummy initially, and might have continued that line of engagement. The question also has reason beyond sorting
  his
  slot - it also serves to align my own thoughts, in case I had a wrong read on things.
  
  I wasn't
  consciously
  thinking through all of that at the time I asked the question. I don't believe that it's necessary to evaluate every question I want to ask in terms of response information: if something piques my interest, then I'd just go ahead! I'm experienced enough to the point where I can intuitively ask questions I feel are useful, and like recursive hyperfocus into
  why
  I'm asking what I asked would just result in more theory responses (the above is a detailed version of my previous one-liner response).
  
  
• Why murder MURDER when I didn't have my heart in it
  : First I'll address an earlier post of yours asking why I'd be okay voting MURDER when I poked at Catboi's read - I view the two as independent things. Even if I scumread MURDER for a variety of reasons, yet found that that singular contradictory reason is worth considering, it's still a question I could ask that serves the dual purpose of finding out how it would factor into his thought process, and whether I should change my own (a better way of putting it would be to try to
  align
  with the slot).
  
  I hold the same ultimate conclusion - I think MURDERKITTY indeed had differing energy levels, and maybe he would have put up a more consistent showing as scum, but his content is still lackluster, the PoE I'm forming seems okay, skitteR thinks it's a fine vote, Ponglin (who we TR) thinks it's a fine vote, and nothing else is generating anything of interest.
  
• Daenerys' slot TR but not in townblock?
  : I'm a little surprised this got lesser attention than I thought it would, especially when I failed to address it earlier and kept asking for thoughts on my townbloc. To explain - I TR the entitlement the slot has to be townread (as someone else has also expressed), however I think my personal read on that basis isn't particularly reliable - given I also didn't really enjoy engaging with (or about) the slot I figured I'd just let skitteR handle it. Note that this does not reflect an
  inability
  to sort that slot on my part, I just need more content for that, probably. If my slot is NK'd early, count my personal read as a null.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Who here likes walls? I'll make every post of mine a wallpost if people are on board

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

i would like to say i explicilty do not townread the other hydra and i feel like lilith ignored my overture trying to sort her slot

i really, really dislike gamma's approach to the MURDERCAT wagon, and am somewhat inclined to switch my vote there, but i won't cuz auro does not quite agree. although actually the more i read i'm not sure that he's scum; he feels kinda like misunderstood and pissed off town. also i hope you have a better day tom <3

i still feel like MURDERCAT is being grossly lurkish and underwhelming

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Can you link me a game where scum!lilith showed this level of proactiveness or emotion

i can't, no (i.e. i don't ahve an example)
but she's not quite feeling like town-lilith to me yet either and i'm currently trying to figure out what i make of that

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

lilith i see that but i'm gonna circle back later or tomorrow or something, i have a sick headache and can't really think straight rn

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

<3

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

now I'm feeling like maybe it was deliberate after all.

Lol I'd never be *scared* of engaging with anyone as scum, for the record

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

The Gamma distraction feels pretty boring to me, and I can totally imagine Gamma as stubborn/frustrated town justifying his actions. The emotional reaction does seem a little disproportionate, marking that for later study.

MURDERKITTY is still the correct lim.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Cakez, you seem pretty uninvested this game. I'd be glad if you can change that.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

why? I should be so incredibly easy to read here. what does cakes being more or less present in this thread have to do with anything? do you think cakes is more readable than I am? do you think you can convince him more easily that you're town?

Weakly agree on the first - I do TR you (contingent on my slot not being NK'd, by the way, because in the off chance that you ARE scum playing a great game, I don't want to let your slot coast on my TR. Visit the dead thread for City That Never Sleeps and you'll understand). That game I lost to scum!you btw - I don't believe you're as "incredibly easy to read" as you say you are?

I think I'd work well with Cakez. His lack of investment is a mild concern and I'd rather no concerns at all, but the stronger point is that I think an invested Cakez would be better for the game, independent of your own play.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I know he posted earlier, and I find it a little stiff - unlike my experience with town!Cakez. I haven't asked "where is Cakez" by the way, I asked him to get more invested in the game! I don't care that you're the more active head, I independently would like him to be invested as well.

There's no reason to have something specific to talk about to ask someone to invest better into the game: I don't need to have to come up with specific talking points to get someone invested in the game. His posting doesn't reflect any real investment in my read of it. It is a complaint, but not because I'm concerned about you scumreading me. For the record, I sorta expect Cakez to scumread my slot as well, and convincing him off a scumread on me is usually way more difficult in my experience

The primary takeaway was an understanding of why my read is contingent on me living, and secondary that I respect your game enough to think that you certainly have the skill to evolve your scumgame. But yes, that is paranoia and doesn't invalidate my personal reasons to strongly townread you.

MURDERKITTY is still the correct lim.

I thought you weren’t feeling it skitteR

I wasn't earlier, but now I do: MURDERKITTY has had enough opportunities to get into the game I feel, and it's been more than a day since he posted. Infinity and Gamma's reactions to that wagon seem a little awkward.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

It wasn't a takeaway from the pages, it was a takeaway from my discussion with Skitter about your slot.

Yes, I do think Gamma is a distraction still, that's not inconsistent with implying they have partner equity and that MURDERKITTY is still the correct lim...?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

I disagree: what other options do those slots have if MC is scum with them? What's a "more subtle" way of dismantling the wagon on their buddy?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

this doesn't really sound like you think he's scum with murder imo.

Oh I thought I mentioned it here but it was in my discord: I mentioned they have partner equity but independently I find Gamma's recent posting itself NAI.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

What's a "more subtle" way of dismantling the wagon on their buddy?

Perhaps a subtler way of going about it would be to accuse someone of TMI'ing them... :thonk:

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

that's actually an interesting thought, and I could see scum!catboi trying to divert a wagon off buddy!murder onto gamma. but then I think I'd expect gamma to be wagoned harder, not for that wagon and the NM wagon to continue to stall.

If subtlety is what he's aiming for in that hypothetical, waiting for town to pick up on it before making a more aggressive diversion attempt does make sense. However, I independently townread Catboi and this possibility just slightly furthers my belief in MC being a correct lim.

I'll respond to your post to Skitter based on my understanding of her thoughts, as she's not here (sorry Skitter that I'm answering for you):

The overall sentiment was that you were focusing disproportionately on me with a possible motive of finding easier attack vectors off my posts, and that your engagement with me felt as though you were searching for a logical "gotcha" to push us. Also, inability to sort Skitter!head doesn't mean you can't engage with her anyway, right? The continued focus on engaging me while brushing off Skitter as "can't sort" seemed to fit into the same kind of scummy thought process you suspected me of having when I disengaged with you (even if the posted reasons were different) if that makes it clearer.

When she said she didn't see town!Lilith yet, as I understand it's her evaluation of the rest of your content independent of that factor above. A partial timeline of her read was [initial surface level scum pings on your reaction to my earlier posts] -> [okay on further read, looks town?] -> [why is Cakez acting like we're unreasonable too?] -> [let's wait for lilith to come back] -> [why is lilith ignoring my post?] -> [she seems to be playing around me rather than with me? could be very wrong though], if that helps.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Heya, i'm still not doing super awesome. Lilith i'll try to get to ur posts but i dont want to promise itll happen today

Auro's response to u on my behalf was fairly accurate tho

(This is more of a checkin to say i'm not ignoring this, but rather that i dont have tons of energy rn)

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

Fwiw i'm at the point where i agree with that

(Lilith i'll walk u through how and why my read changed when i have more energy)

~ skitter

[Dumb and Dumber]

V/LA for a day, work shiz needs heavy attention

I super quickly surfed through previous pages, D&D is obvtown, and hot take: Gamma feels gut-town too, and I still want to flip MC. It's a gut take, so I won't be defending Gamma.

Salsabil, if you'd like me to explain any post from my slot I'll be glad to (I can see how they'd be hard to read).

Dragons, I think it's been the other way round, no? You get paranoid of Mastermind!Dumbass every game and try to get me killed - when I say I think I'd work well, it's what I hope for the next time

Crayons, if my posting was off, why not explore that? It's odd that you remain so passive about it.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Also I'm not really gonna defend against votes on my slot. If anyone has concerns they'd like me to address, just go ahead and ask me.

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

What does this mean--you're not going to defend against people voting you? Leaving it to Skitter? Or just a mea culpa?

Neither, I am beginning to believe that defence against *votes* isn't useful
Also, zen playstyle, etc

Salsabil is bleeding obvtown.

Gamma, do you disagree with Lilith that her game here is wildly different from the two scumgames of hers you brought up? Can you describe the similarities?

-Dumbass

[Dumb and Dumber]

Hey Infinity, I was curious about something some time ago. If you have time, could you link some random towngames and scumgames of yours? (It's ok if you can't, I can go to your profile and search)

Also I'd like to be called 'the dumbass', thanks.

-Dumbass