Newbie 2054 - GAME OVER

[Krazy]

VOTE: haruhi ayasato

Hi there! My side quest for day 1 is to make sure everyone has an avatar! If there's any images you like I can help resize them or if you need other help setting up an avatar let me know!

[Krazy]

I have a tendency to use hyperbole and confidence regarding reads. Part of this hyperbole is saying 'im masons with x' or 'i have a guilty on y' -- these are not softs and I am not trying to rolefish or anything like that. They are just a way of expressing my reads in shorthand, usually to indicate I liked or disliked one specific post. For example, I might say "I'm masons with marcistar" and that would be more a way to express my initial take on their first post and not a real hardclaim. I say that because I was about to say "I'm masons with marcistar" -- usually I'd just leave it at that since people in normals/large themes would usually get that it wasn't a serious claim.

I also townread both of kazyan's posts so far.

Pedit: yeah saw the typo after the post, sorry. Too many episodes of haruhi suzumiya I guess. Do you have a picture in mind? Is harumi a character from an anime?

[Krazy]

I googled her

Harumi Gif avatar version 1:

Spoiler:

Harumi Static avatar version 1:

Spoiler:

Harumi Static avatar version 2:

Spoiler:

Any of those work for you?

[Krazy]

Any particular reason you choose to use language that has game connotations? For example, if I liked a particular take or perspective, instead of "I'm masons with marcistar", I'd say something like "I'm mindmelding with Marci" or "Marci makes a good point" or even just "/barn Marci". It feels a bit needlessly confusing (especially when it comes to something as extreme as "I have a guilty on Y").

Usually just because jokeclaiming masons/guilties is more fun and direct. To be clear, it's also something I usually drop by day 2. The silliness of it has to deal with just getting through day 1; since obviously being masons is the only way to have a townread on someone day 1, and there's actually no way whatsoever to have a day 1 guilty there's no actual risk of "I have a guilty on x" as being confused for a real claim.

**

@Meuh, this is a little oog but was rachelpie trying to in with you? The proximity of your ins made me think you were friends or something

**

@Italiano, just for your own sanity I am also Happy Unbirthday Boon, so hello again!

[Krazy]

We're going to beat the Mafia with the power of friendship, aren't we. ._______.

All in favor of town PR claims being presented as transformation sequences when the time comes to do that?

I also townread both of kazyan's posts so far.

why_though.jpg

just tone reads, thought process reads will be more important once the game has more content

beating the mafia with the power of friendship can be problematic (it can be hard to reevaluate people if you don't *want* to reevaluate them) but I still would rather have that then a highly toxic game, which can occur even in newbie queue.

Also if every PR claim comes accompanied with a transformation sequence then this would probably end up being my favorite newbie queue game ever...

[Krazy]

So far I townlean the tones of Kazyan, Marcistar, Meuh, and Harumi
and faintly townlean Italiano

VOTE: 2ndchosen1

[Krazy]

I don't think a new player opens the game trying to pocket me by complimenting my pfp. Not a strong resd but good enough for page 2 lol

[Krazy]

2nd time in 2 pages I've wanted to jokeclaim masons with marcistar, I think she is really town

[Krazy]

I did notice them but I think it's just playstyle and NAI. I like the kazy townread which to me is more AI (townie) but while meuh is townlean I could still see her going either way

NAI = not alignment indicative

Harumi - marci - kazy

Meuh

Italiano

Cantrip

[Eth0s, 2nd] -- not scumreads, just nullreads where I need more posts to evaluate

Cantrip I very slightly scumread only because he didn't imply a read/guttake of me after asking me questions on page 1 but that's a below rand reason to scumread someone so very close to null there too


Rand = random, I might shorthand that a lot, if I ever slip into weird terms and forget to explain let me know

[Krazy]

That's funny I thought the comment was about meuh exclusively since hers were the only ones that jumped out at me

I think the sunglasses emote always jumps out at me though, I think that emote in particular reads as insincere just because it looks slightly off for some reason

[Krazy]

Hey everyone!!! time for town to win VOTE:

Kazyan

for not having an anime girl as their pfp.

Scummies, you should out yourselves now! Otherwise we'll catch you and you'll face HARSH consequences for your crimes

If we're getting into weird tone reads, I do think making her first vote pink is more likely to come from town (again, this is probably not reliable but this opening is why I have her in the upper half)

I don't think scum *tend* to draw attention to their vote in that specific manner, but it could be NAI, page 1 tonereads are always tricky business

(Saves the thread the inevitable 'is the greeting tell real' zzz discussion by pointing to the more ai part of the post imo)

Spoiler: greeting tell

last year there was a discussion of whether going 'hey everyone' at the start of a game is scum indicative. Hence 'greeting tell'. It's close enough to rand that it's boring to discuss. I think the pink text in the vote is way more interesting.

Most 'tells' are close to rand anyway, thought process evaluation is always the best way to hunt imo. 'tells' are just another way to get an initial grip on the game or get the game out of rvs

[Krazy]

Lol even writing that I'm like 'damn u could be wrong on meuh' but I like the read and I'm holding it at least through page 5!

[Krazy]

What’s your definition of constant? And myself, meuh, and Marcistar all used them, so we’re all insincere?

the weird defensiveness of this post might be a little scummy too, maybe I'll move italiano out of lean town

[Krazy]

The fact that I am trying to pocket (almost) the entire list is more a matter of playstyle than anything else, I'm a very pockety player as both town and scum Actually, I subjectively think I'm even more pockety as town than as scum, but I'm definitely pockety as both, and I'm not sure a casual observer would notice the difference.

If I seem kinda excited about the Marci read, it's because I've been thinking a lot about a recent post unwnd made in mafia discussion about the value of tone reads, so I'm curious to see how my early game tone reads play out. I can already tell that this is going to be a game where one of my big thoughts in postgame will be about whether tone reads are good or not. (unwnd's argument was that they're just not good at all, I think they're good early game and then should be supplanted by thought process reads as there's enough content to do so)

I do have some expanded thoughts on my Harumi read but I'll hold off until she posts a bit in response to Italiano. I also feel like I should probably be posting less until the low content slots post a bit more but I'm kinda enjoying this game a lot already lol

I do generally vibe your reads list Meuh! So that's a good feel

[Krazy]

Also don't post less, I want people to talk to

3. I think you shouldn't stop talking if you can. Once the less talkative people join in, they'll be able to see that the game is indeed hella popping and itll be harder for inactive scummies to hide!! They'll have to give input eventually, while if the talking tones down, they might not feel the need to..

I appreciate the sentiment but it's not healthy for the game if I have too much thread presence. I tend to play in larges which tend to be more hyper-posty which can be off-putting to some newer players. I do like to be chatty and have fun but I also make a point to let the thread breathe.

This post by marcistar is again really townie tho lol, but I kinda disagree. While it's true if town finds themselves town too much, then scum will not know how to generate a winnable gamestate. There is also the risk of being too insistent on townreads too early can cause them to feel stale and paranoia later on. Still... idk. Sometimes people just town yo. But beyond this, if scum lurk out then town can start to push each other because they're the only ones saying anything or generating readable content. Not that I'm really accusing our no-poster of being a lurker, I mean we're in the first 24 hours and confirmations took like 2 and a half days.

I personally didn't really find Italiano scummy here. This doesn't seem defensive to me, it looks more like either defending me or trying to push on Harumi. If it's to defend me, I don't mind it, and if it's to push on Harumi, I don't really understand what's scummy about it either. If anything, early aggressiveness can be a sign of being town, right? Since it feeds discussion.

I feel like whatever it is, defending himself or someone else, pairing people together in a group of three is a bit scummy. Scum like groups of three because it makes it unclear whether they're pairing themselves with two townies or a scumbuddy. He also kinda went to defend the use of emotes without really evaluating how different players were using emotes to different ends which is a little concerning. Not a super scummy post, but a little scummy

A joke based on how random votes are often accompanied by silly reasons. This is a forum, so no one is wearing a hat, because no one has a physical presence.

"black hat" is usually a joke referring to the mafia right? I thought it was a joke since Italiano's avatar is bald

OMG YOUR SPELLING IS AWFUL POLICY EXECUTE THIS IMMEDIATELY THIS CANNOT BE FORGIVEN!!!!!!1!!11!!!

I know this is silly but I'm not entirely sure what you're doing with this post

What’s your definition of constant? And myself, meuh, and Marcistar all used them, so we’re all insincere?

Hmm, interesting. I guess you weren't just focused on Meuh then. Still I think it's a townie concern, having a lot of elements of posts that you don't know how to read.

Meuh's reads would be fine, but in addition to being so early, there are no scumreads. It seems more performative than towny. I'll keep an eye on that.

I think sorting nulls from townleans is fine for page 3 tbh

[Krazy]

I don’t like when people do this. Please don’t narrate and/or assume what I’m thinking (bolder) or how I’m trying to sort a player’s slot. Feels like a poor attempt to shade me. If you’d like to know what I mean or why I said something, just ask me.

Well the question you asked was kinda indignant, like "are you REALLY implying that [three people] are insincere from emotes" (obviously you didn't write the caps REALLY but that seemed to be the implication of the question) which does seem to also therefore imply a kind of likeness. It pinged me a little but I'm not making a big deal out of it outside of explaining where I'm at on it. You know, it's page 3, so 'a ping' is about all I'm likely to get at this point anyway

[Krazy]

Meuh, given your reads list had kazyan as a good vibes townlean, why did you not move your vote after writing the list?

[Krazy]

Really disappointed to wake up and still no content from bottom pair.

Harumi, the non-memey part of that post was fine, but the "memey" part was joking about a policy lim ehich leaves me overall unsure what your actual read of italiano is or why you're making the memey joke, hence why I asked about that part

[Krazy]

@kazy -- why not vote your poe?

@marci 78 -- true. Too be clear, I was *not saying* anyone else should post less. We should have a robust conversation. My point was that *I specifically* will ease up on the gas if my postcount exceeds the rest of the game too fast. In Tenet I blew out 1,000 posts by day 4 which even by large theme standards was a bit excessive. I don't think anyone else here needs to hold back at all at this point, unless the game blows past page 10 before 2nd or eth0s have made any content.

@marci 81 - I don't think solving is bad at all. "X and x might be scum together" can be very productive. "Y is not scum because they're doing something a and b are doing" conversely I find a bit scummy. I think looking for associative pairings of scum teams is townie, and I call that solving.

[Krazy]

Maybe cause I'm tablet posting? Idk I might sound a little diff right now because I'm not at normal keyboard

There are some vote counters people use but some of them need some minor updates. I find vote counters essential for running larges personally.

[Krazy]

@harumi, No take on marci or meuh yet?

Can you expand on your kazy read a bit?

[Krazy]

Does anyone else find the constant use of emoticons to come off as insincere, or is it just me?

What’s your definition of constant? And myself, meuh, and Marcistar all used them, so we’re all insincere?

@marci

I reallllly don't want to beat this post to death. I am *not* voting italiano right now. This post is not a big deal to me.

I said it was *a little* scummy because it implied (whoever) harumi meant (which apparently was all 3?) shouldn't be scummy because 2 other people were doing the same thing. This pinged me a little because it feels more like a deflection, but italiano is right that he followed up by trying to press harumi on whether she scumread any of those people for the emotes, which it seems she does not.

I'm pretty past this convo, I just want to make it clear I was not saying anything like "c is scum with d" would be scummy, I think saying "g is town because h and f did the same thing" though kinda is, especially if h and f didn't *really* do the same thing in the same way, and partly because there's a lot of potential scum motivation for scum to pair themselves or a buddy with town.

*kills this talking point forever*

[Krazy]

What post makes you ask if marci is scum? Also maybe indicate what page you're on when doing catchup

[Krazy]

Random thought, but even if I'm wrong on one of them, Meuh and Harumi are never ever scum together after Meuh has committed herself to use the sunglasses emote in every post after Harumi's emotes complaint post

[Krazy]

Uh...explain, please? How did you mix me up with eth0s?

Seems like a pretty solid anti-associative for me, I'd take it

Not a fan of the "nothing to see here, folks, move along" vibes from this post. There's a LOT of words here to protest the weight of your read.

More "I feel like this is the third time I've explained this and this is a 4 page game"

[Krazy]

Meuh, if you do end up modding later, the scrubber I use is this one -- https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=75213

It does have one issue with it (you need to edit the word "lynch" which is now outdated on site), I think there's one or two other scrubbers around but I haven't tried them recently.

Anyway, Nexus is clearly* a masochist so I'm sure he actually *wants* you to change votes as much as possible

Spoiler: *

I actually have no idea, but I don't think Nexus cares at all if you change votes so long as you aren't like spamming or changing 7 times in one page or something

[Krazy]

I'd be okay fakeclaiming masons with kazy and marci
harumi is pretty strong townlean
meuh I think still ultimately flips town but still room for error there

Townlean on Krazy for the openness of mindset in #51. That "I look forward to looking back on my reads" mentality doesn't feel like it comes naturally from scum.

[edited out]

I feel like RVS can safely be considered to be ended, but I'm going to leave my RVS on Krazy for the time being.

Preview edit: I will lol so hard if this is a Marci/Mueh scumteam.

this is a pretty interesting post

first, the pedit comment feels a bit scummy to me

second, I'm trying to decide how I feel about opening the post calling me a townlean and then ending the post saying he's keeping his RVS vote on me

townies can kinda contradict themselves like this, but scum can too, so I'm not sure. I would say if scum, he probably meant to only call the one post "townie" at the start and then forgot he'd said townlean. He does add:

Not a fan of the "nothing to see here, folks, move along" vibes from this post. There's a LOT of words here to protest the weight of your read.

in the middle of the post, idk, I don't think finding one post townie and then saying you're still voting someone anyway is scummy, I do think it's a little off to call someone a "townlean" for a post and then keep your vote on them anyway.

I'd say I have I have trip at like, 40% scum between PoE and weird vibe at this post

I do think this feels like a serial killer game, in the sense that right now I feel like one of the scum has literally not posted. If Trip is scum it would make sense for him to want to stay on me despite finding pretexts to townlean me if I do happen to be voting his partner right now. I forget what the word for that is called...

I guess it's technically in the like, universe of chainsaw defense, but this isn't really a chainsaw defense since he hasn't implied 2nd is town at all, but it was a thought that crossed my mind that the game currently makes the most sense to me in a world of Cantrip+2nd

To be clear, this is *not* a good example of a chainsaw defense, but I'll link so you know what I'm referring to: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... aw_Defense

[Krazy]

I figured I’d wait a little longer...until page 5 to give them more time, but Harumi, you still haven’t answered my question. Who specifically were you talking about when you posted your emoji comment?

She kinda did:

Well there are quite a few posts which have emoticons literally almost every line, which I guess strikes me the wrong way??? I don't know, it's probably just me.

Basically, she didn't mean anyone specifically, afaik -- is this a correct take, Harumi?

[Krazy]

I'd say I have I have trip at like, 40% scum between PoE and weird vibe at this post

Sorry, this might be unclear. Basically everyone in the game, from my point of view, is 25% scum (2/8), so 40% scum is saying I have him a above rand scum but still not a very strong read. If I'm correct on Marci town and Kazy town then this goes to everyone else going up to 33% scum (2/6) so saying I have Trip at 40% scum means he's still only slightly above a PoE shot for me, but I do think he's veered a bit more toward scum than town for me at this point.

[Krazy]

12 hours until prods and then 24 hours to replace after that? Really disappointing way to start this game but unfortunately it can happen, I know eth0s has some irl stuff going on and idk what's up with 2nd at this point

Kazyan I guess you and 2nd both had played a mini normal before coming back to newbie queue, did you join together or was there someone from that game that had invited both of you or was that just a coincidence?

I kinda don't know how to solve this game with two slots MIA tbh, I could spend some time just vibing or talking about anime or something but I think there might be a rule about excessive off topic conversation.

I don't really scumread Trip enough to really want to vote there quite yet (before solving nulls), and given it's newbie queue it'd be poor form probably to flip 2nd without a replace/claim. (Out of eth0s/2nd, I would flip 2nd first in a world where we did flip a 'no content' slot, take that associative/anti associative for what it is if you want or ignore it)

I do think Italiano/Harumi is T/T atm but I don't mind seeing where it goes either.

Sadly waiting for prod/replace is literally "the boring option" which is sad because I was vibing this game yesterday really hard

[Krazy]

Marci I don't think you could be mean if you tried

It's 5 to lim and harumi has two votes on her with italiano's so your vote would be three, or 'f-2' which is fine for pressure, f1 might be early but f2 would tie it with ethos

[Krazy]

The emoticon debate feels very TvT.

Can you be more specific on which people you thought were town in the emoticon debate (italiano and harumi or?)

**

I did think kazy had reads, although not in list form it's a bit harder to track them. Still that's ok for me so long as they're clear enough

[Krazy]

Post 240 in 1941 -- that's who kazy is reminding me of. Holden was technically writing that post as a joke but the overall result (a town wallcasing me that 'reallly' is a kinda nullish read rather than an actual hard push) feels the same. Obviously the tone is quite different but I think I generally townread people who write a wallpost about me that doesn't actually reach a conclusion now lol. Sorry I can link the post later but that's one reason I have kazy as pretty hard town atm. This post will make more sense when I can link it.

Pedit: yay welcome 2nd! This a very townie town so far so I'm looking forward to your reads

[Krazy]

Spoiler: The link I mentioned earlier

This is the post I was thinking of -- https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11059615

The context here is confusing because the posts actually read very different. I'm Wagonomics, which is a gimmick alt. And HoldenGolden is writing a wallpost saying to kill me, but he doesn't actually believe it and it's a joke.

But it's still townie for Holden because he is taking the time to read my posts and think about my slot, and he still sees the push as productive in a way.

Even though the tone/style is like, completely different, the motivation/thought process actually feels similar to Kazy's 109

This argument is probably too convoluted to other people to be very helpful to their reads, but basically I do think Kazy is very town atm.

Also don't mind his list even though I have Harumi and Meuh as town. I get why he's scumleaning them.

**

@Kazy, the one read of yours I don't really get is Cantrip, can you explain that one more?

[Krazy]

Are you done with your catchup 2nd?

[Krazy]

What do you think of 101?

[Krazy]

Do you think kazyan tries to fake confusing their scumbuddy for someone who has only posted once?

[Krazy]

:3

I just think scum wouldn't do something their scumbuddy found annoying and wouldn't use that as a pretext for theater. If the buddy finds it anjoying + they don't get towncred for doing it, they probably don't do it

Likewise, I kinda think meuh is town for doubling down on the sunglasses emote spam because if like, harumi was a town invest then harumi would probably target meuh just so she'd know if she could stop reading the slot

Like meuh is playing anti-politically right now which usually but not always comes from town

[Krazy]

Cantrip were you writing that readslist before this page with 2nd?

[Krazy]

Hmm, because harumi said they were insincere which tends to imply scummy. Italiano defended himself before he was singled out by harumi, which bothered me a bit at the time but I don't actually mind all that much. Good reminder though. Iirc I said the emotes were NAI at the time, I said italiano was a little scummy for defending himself from such a silly accusation, and now I think meuh is townie for continuing to use them after the conversation took place. I also have thoughts on you returning to this talking point

I think I have 3 updated reads now, but I'll post them tomorrow morning

[Krazy]

You doing okay eth0s?

[Krazy]

Whaaaat? You don't read people for emoticon usage?

Really though can you expand on this kazyan guttake? Is this from a game in the past and what's pinging you here?

[Krazy]

It looks like we're sliding towards more serious voting now. In that case, UNVOTE: .

@kazy -- why not vote your poe?

Huh? I don't have enough reads to use PoE yet. Honestly, I'm kinda waiting for one of those big arguments that pull lots of people in.

VOTE: Cantripmancer. This is a policy vote. C'mon, do something.

Wait, dangit, I got you mixed up with a different person. Ack.

UNVOTE: Cantripmancer

VOTE: eth0s

C'mon, do something.

I agree that these posts are superficially scummy and I don't mind you sorting there even tho I think kazy is town.

Do you have a take on 2nd from the last page?

[Krazy]

Like do you have a read on 2nd?

[Krazy]

Ok.

I have 4 reads I need to update tomorrow. I am going to try to not post for 12 hours because I am probably dominating too much convo.

(expired on 2021-02-12 16:12:40)

Pedit: howso? And also probably thank you even though I disagree that's how you play scum (he says not knowing what you even meant lmao)

Pedit2: very much so, I am more overpowering here because there are fewer posts, that's why I have to like force myself to stop sometimes.

I don't usually explain my thoughts this much, but a lot of my jokes can be offputting to newbies. I actually held off seing for almost a year because I had 2 rather unfortunate games with very bad vibes

Ok that timer goes into effect now

[Krazy]

Alright, right now I'm at:
Scum: 2nd
Not scum: everyone else

UNVOTE: 2nd

VOTE: 2ndchosen1 -- since the previous vote was a PoE vote on a null slot, I want it clear that this is a serious scumread and not a holdover from my PoE push earlier.

Goals for today:
-explain why I want 2nd
-Evaluate my not scum reads to figure out which one I might be wrong on

Things that might happen today:
-Possibly accidentally destroy a wagon on otherscum to kill 2ndchosen1 scum instead

Kinda hard to decide which is the higher priority, I don't mind if 2nd comes in with some more posts since there's still not very much content from him, but I don't want to just sort in my townreads and adjust my PoE if that means people get hung up on whether they should or should not be in an expanded PoE.

[Krazy]

I'll get to that in a bit Kazyan. First I have a side question for you. I am going to do a readslist with gifs themed around anime husbandos and waifus. I am not sure what to do for you -- is there any particular anime characters you'd like me to use?

[Krazy]

eth0s

Spoiler:

Husbando tier: SS+

A few thoughts: -- I don't actually understand this part of 146

I was thinking that it was almost a bit odd for no one to have voted me around the middle of page 3 but Meuh did. I don't necessarily love the circumstances of the vote, but I think Marcistar said it best.

Don't think it's scummy, but not sure how it relates to the quoted stuff above it.

I don't think there's very much AI in his iso before 156; I very slightly townlean the 156-158 guttake on italiano. 160 is interesting mostly because it'd be a bit unusual for scum to say "oh I don't scumread someone for *those posts*" when I agree that their scumread on kazy is reasonable. Still not very hard

160 to 162 in conjunction though is a very solid anti-associative for eth0s + 2ndchosen1 -- he literally forgot who 2nd was for a minute, which may not be perfect, but is pretty good.

Krazy your demeanor reminds me of how I often play scum

Still looking for what you meant from this post.

But let's cut away the noise:

Oh, the player named 2nd. Like I said it's much closer to feelings than reads for me right now. I like the way 2nd talks and the structure of their analyses. I think that biases me to feeling good about them. I feel based off of what little they have said they are capable of playing a convincing scum game.

This post is *really townie*. Like, high grade town material right here. The self-conscious awareness of his own biases toward how 2nd is playing is really, really good. I don't even agree on the take about 2nd's scumgame or range, but as far as quick takes go, this one really knocked it out of the park for me. High town basically based on this post. And if 2nd flips scum, which I think he does, this is like, really not scum theater to me.

[Krazy]

marcistar

Spoiler:

Waifu tier: SS+

krazys pfp do be cute doe

Very town -- scum almost never opens the game trying to pocket me for my avatar

just whoever doesnt call me beautiful is scum ofc

if tonereads are good, this is town

how long is the random vote phase thingy meant to last its so hard to make votes during it..

this again feels very town

I do agree with krazy that emojis isnt really alignment indicative.

It's good conversation for early game I think, but if it progresses later on dont let the emojis cloud your judgement!! I think actions > emojis

townie

3. I think you shouldn't stop talking if you can. Once the less talkative people join in, they'll be able to see that the game is indeed hella popping and itll be harder for inactive scummies to hide!! They'll have to give input eventually, while if the talking tones down, they might not feel the need to..
does this make sense? i hope i worded it right?

townie

TBH I feel like i'm tunneling you too much right now Meuh because we're friends.

townie. also good to know

I gotta be super cautious about them, but i don't think they're super scummy as of right now.

townie. also okay with the harumi read in this post

she's just town yo

[Krazy]

Cantripmancer

Spoiler:

Husbando Tier: A

As I mentioned early, I don't love the progression from 17-22 and this question

@Marcistar: Are you scum?

pinged me a bit, and that makes it hard to go hard town here

I've already discussed 101, particularly:

Preview edit: I will lol so hard if this is a Marci/Mueh scumteam.

which pings me a little, I definitely don't townread this slot before 101.

..might not be a definite tell, but I have a hard time seeing mafia going to lengths to find/remember a specific post from *checks date* a year and a half ago[!], highlighting it as comparable to a current post, using it to base a read, and then basically unpacking it and saying "ok, it probably doesn't feel comparable to anyone else (and it was a joke post, to boot), but I'm going to persist in my town read because of it". Not to say that mafia can't put in that kind of effort, but not only are there easier ways to fake a townread (or townread a buddy), but that kind of thought process feels just as likely to attract scrutiny as it does to achieve anything else. So...

this feels like a pretty townie reevaluation

Main thing for me though right now is this post:

Town:
Marci
Meuh
Kazyan
Krazy*

Null:
Harumi
2nd
eth0s

Scum:
Italiano
Krazy*

Trip having me as both top scum and town is actually really townie LMAO. I actually had the same feeling about Dunnstral recently in the Tenet game, I could even link the readslist where I had him as bottom scum and top town simultaneously. I think my playstyle tends to generate a lot of paranoia and this feels like a pretty townie approach to me. I guess if there was a point against this, it'd be because I'd already pointed out I slightly townread convoluted day 1 reads of me in discussing Kazyan, but I still really liked this readslist and the followup to it.

[Krazy]

Meuh

Kinda feel like the waifu ranking tier was a bad idea actually, anyway this is like mid-range town (was gonna say 'waifu tier b but like, idk that just doesn't feel right now that I'm at this point in the list, it's just indicating how town they are it has nothing to do with how cute they are -- cuteness levels for Meuh are clearly SS++)

I do think Kazyan looks like a townie here, just from reading his posts and his reply to Krazy's read, although I think anyone contributing to the conversation is more likely to be town than people not talking, right? Most games I've played the more silent the town, the better for scum

bit townie

Readslist on 50 seems fine, the one problem with it being that she didn't move her vote at that time.

Ooh interesting, I don't often see people just... admit to pocketing, interesting playstyle! Excited to see how it plays out

townie

Omg we gotta elim Marci now she slipped now I'll have to solo-carry the scum team

I feel like following up on the joke scumclaim from Marci is a bit scummier than Marci responding to the initial question, but I kinda feel like this falls in line with Meuh having a bit of an other-site-meta vibe to her where I think she's used to kinda shitposting more and being quasi-trolly and the seriousness of the game is throwing her off a bit

Progression in readslist from 50 to 181 seems fine, her flipflopping on her read of me a couple of times through the day in particular strikes me as townie.

My overall vibe from Meuh is:
a) they like their alignment this game, whatever it is
b) if they are scum, they are scum from a sort of "hectic" style vibe where they like to be jokey and trolly
but
overall I think they're just town, I like the progression in the readslists and I think they're mostly getting poe'd due to having an other-site-meta vibe. That's my current take. They have seemed to do a few things that are almost deliberately scummy or attention-grabbing

[Krazy]

Kazyan

Spoiler:

Town tier: B/C

As I mentioned before, 77 --> 87 --> 90 is kinda superficially scummy, the unvote feels weird and the policy vote following it up feels ehhh

109 however wallcasing me only to reach a "null" conclusion feels pretty town

The overall progression on Harumi from 127-179 feels kinda weird to me tho, idk

The main thing moving this slot out of "fakeclaim mason" territory for me though overall is this post though:

Reads update: 2ndchosen1 moves up to a full-on townread for me now. He has come out of the gate in gamesolve mode, which looks very different to his scumgame last time.

I'm not sure what to think about eth0s. His posts fit with a pattern of "breaking up the townbloc" and adding to the Meuh dogpile, but that seems okay for now.

Mostly this just feels like a *wrong* meta take on 2ndchosen1, this game is very easily in 2nd's scumrange and I feel like I had the exact opposite impression about his catchup/entrance into the game, which makes this post especially alarming. Could still very easily be wrong!town but this take makes me more nervous about the slot than I was before.

I still think the paranoia and flip flopping on me from this slot is more likely to come from town than scum though so still leaning town overall. Thinking "town with unexpectedly bad take of 2nd's meta" rather than "scum using fake meta to shield 2nd"

definitely an OK investigative check if 2nd did flip scum tho

[Krazy]

ItalianoVD

Spoiler:

Not even going to mention the emote stuff, I literally don't care about that one post at this point.

Why don’t you let her speak for herself. And kinda did is not answering.

This feels a bit townie, I feel like Italiano was actually annoyed I was interrupting his solving process/push on Harumi

this is actually the most AI post I have from him this game. Very faint leantown but actually mostly just null.

[Krazy]

Harumi

Spoiler:

Town Tier: C

Is there anything I can help you with?

this part of this post felt kinda weird

Does anyone else find the constant use of emoticons to come off as insincere, or is it just me?

this initially struck me as very townie when I thought it was just commenting on Meuh, knowing it's kinda just generally directed makes it a bit less townie but eh

Well there are quite a few posts which have emoticons literally almost every line, which I guess strikes me the wrong way??? I don't know, it's probably just me.

again, would have been townier if she'd expanded on her thoughts for one of the three slots

I made the memey part to meme. I didn't intend for it to have any actual meaning, or to reflect my opinion on anything.

ftr NicoRobin does this sort of stuff all the time as scum so memeing so it makes me very nervous here

This wasn't "kind of", it was the answer. I was not referring to anyone in particular, I just noticed that multiple people were doing it and commented on it.

kinda feel like scum would like... just give some reads about it at this point? idk this whole exchange got kinda weird

tbh I kinda hard townread the emoticon stuff at first but that feeling has faded a lot and the content from this slot isn't all that great

I get why they're being pushed but I don't really know what they end up flipping at this point. The slot feels close to rand. Usually when I'm like, initially thinking a slot is hard town, then realize I misunderstood what they meant when I thought they were hard town, they still end up being town so I haven't wanted to drop the read, but as the rest of my PoE gets shuffled some better content from this slot would definitely help me solve it.

I guess I do get why people think I have a kinda partnery vibe here? I guess my top worry right now is I might end up dismantling a wagon on this slot when they might be scum but *shrug* this slot is not my top scumread and I'm probably not pushing it today

[Krazy]

2ndchosen1

Spoiler:

Scumtier read: 66% scum

Pretty much all of page 6 I just felt like I was talking to scum, and I haven't had that feeling with anyone else this game.

I would call the emoticon debate certainly unhelpful, one thing that came up repeatedly in our last game was the discussing playstyle isn't really the most helpful thing for sorting scum.
The IIOA is certainly something but I would say NAI right now as it wasn't really distracting.
@Kazyan were the NPOM vibes from 29?

like, first of all, this just... was his whole catchup at first. there was no content at all. This dude saw a 5 page game and this was his take on it

after I watched an entire hour-long TV show kinda waiting to see what this guy's catchup would be he comes off with:

pretty much
I'm town lean on Italiano, Kazyan, and Cantrip
IVD has good takes, posts like 67 especially sing town
Kazyan's 109 seems to be a decent analysis of a D1 posting pattern on Krazy.
Cantrip's interaction with Kazyan looks towny to me.

Nulls for the rest right now

which... idk man, I just don't see someone reading the first 6 pages of this game and having *no take* on Meuh. Townread, scumread, whatever, but like other people are accused of hedging reads but this is just very hard to see for me from a town POV. Feels political, like he wants to get some towncred for some townreads but wants to keep his options open as he decides who to push

what makes it such a "pretty solid anti-associative" to you?

I find it hard to believe this is the most interesting question he had for me after the first five pages of the game as town especially since I don't think "one person confused one person for another" is a particularly weird take for an anti-associative

defend the use of emotes without really evaluating how different players were using emotes to different ends
This was either unhelpful discussion or a malicious attack angle on IVD.
Playstyle discussion doesn't find scum, focusing on messages and intent does.
why did you think the emotes are that important Krazy, that they required evaluation?

coming back to this point just feels like white knighting italiano and the "why did you think the emotes are that important Krazy" question feels very scummy

but to be clear, the #1 thing that bothers me about this post is that he doesn't vote me. Like is there any way you read this post and think 2nd doesn't scumread me here? If he's town, writing this post then voting me feels like the easiest thing in the world. I feel like he's holding off because A) he doesn't know he wins a push on me and B) he doesn't know he can sell getting townread after pushing me even if he did somehow win

VOTE: Krazy

this is better but I don't get why he sat on it for 12 hours, I feel like he was just waiting to make sure he had no initial pushback on the FoS

***

There's clearly a scum somewhere in my nulls and towns. I'm trying to decide how much that's a "today" problem vs a "tomorrow" problem though. Right now I really want to see a 2ndchosen1 flip because this guy's entrance feels *very* scummy to me.

I'm not going to say 100% scum, that would be hubristic. But given my PoE and what I think are a lot of pretty good townreads, I think this slot flips scum more often than it flips town right now and is my top pick for a day 1 hit.

In a world of 2nd town, he would have to decide whether I'm scum or town. So I am curious if 2nd can present 2 scumreads outside of myself that seem plausible. That might help me read him. I also would be interested in *exactly one* top tier town from him, not three, just one. Who does he think always flips town? There are some other questions I could ask for him too, but honestly ~10 pages is fine for a newbie game day 1 and I am ready to push this slot into a flip already.

[Krazy]

FoS is finger of suspicion. Sorry I'm kinda just playing normal at this point, if I start using terms that haven't been introduced let me know, I might forget.

[Krazy]

Figure that wallpost/string of reads is enough from me for a while so I will make sure I do not post in this game for (expired on 2021-02-13 00:11:37)

One final point:
I express a lot of confidence in my reads, and I tend to be very assertive in what I want town to do.

But SOMEONE IN THIS GAME has a better read on the second scum than I do. So members of the town, I *do respect your reads and I am listening* -- I am not the mayor of this game just because I can type fast and express my points in a long-winded fashion

It is a certainty that I am either null-reading or town-reading the second scum, and there are certainly still worlds where 2nd flips town, even though it's a game and day 1 doesn't have to take forever so I'd like to see some votes.

[Krazy]

Kinda anticlimactic six hours, guess people had other hobbies for friday night.

Kazyan's posts here read pretty town to me, he reads like town afraid of getting snowed that's been burned recently. He's caught between deciding if I'm town and if I'm town if I'm right which is hard because he can't easily follow my thought processes. Very town tone. I definitely buy that kazy is uninformed of my alignment and therefore very likely town, tempted to move him back to tier A town.

The phenomena you're describing kazy is like a *perfect* example of gambler's fallacy. I run into this all the time when running newbie groups irl. 'he was just scum so I feel nervous calling him scum again" -- dude it don't matter. Either he scum or he not. I think he is. What he was last game literally just does not matter.

When I look at your posts, trip's posts, meuh's posts, kinda italiano's posts, you're either uninformed of my alignment or very convincing in suggesting you're uninformed of my alignment. I don't get that impression with 2nd at all. I feel like he is unsure whether he can get me flipped during the day, not uninformed about my alignment. It's a very different vibe.

I know you're feeling a little lost and like this is a hard game. *hug* you are doing good babeee just feel it

I don't feel the need to timer myself although it was nice forcing myself not to post this morning. I'll try to just pace myself normally now that I kinda know what I wanna do today

[Krazy]

Yeah fuck it kazy back to s tier town, they were in that prism stomp, I can totally get why they're terrified of power town rn

Sorry just was looking back at their last games to check tone of this page and it checks out

Btw sorry about pronouns in that last post

[Krazy]

Wait no they just read that game and played the mini normal

Gah same difference

[Krazy]

Fair. I mean for me it's partly PoE. I have Flip, Kazy, and eth0s as pretty hard town right now. If those three reads are right, even throwing darts at a dartboard on the remaining slots has a pretty good chance of flipping red.

The 'emotes' thing felt scummy to me because I didn't really feel like I had made that argument at all, I had argued they were NAI. Also this:

defend the use of emotes without really evaluating how different players were using emotes to different ends
This was either unhelpful discussion or a malicious attack angle on IVD.

'malicious attack angle on IVD' just seemed very scummy. I said it pinged me, I didn't even vote him off it, so if it was 'bad shade' I feel like other people made a way bigger deal about it than I did. I also feel like you had just recognized that this conversation was kinda unhelpful so you trying to go back to it made me feel like you were trying to find a weak argument that people had already moved past to make the gamestate less readable.

So I am curious if 2nd can present 2 scumreads outside of myself that seem plausible. That might help me read him. I also would be interested in *exactly one* top tier town from him, not three, just one. Who does he think always flips town? There are some other questions I could ask for him too, but honestly ~10 pages is fine for a newbie game day 1 and I am ready to push this slot into a flip already.

If you are town, this is still the main thing you can do to help me re-evaluate you. Who is your #1 top town (not your top 3 towns, just your #1 top town), and who are two people you can see flipping red outside of myself and yourself?

[Krazy]

Oh yeah and I emphasized I'm not the mayor because even though I am pretty confident in this read, I recently was wrong on a read (right on every other read in the game but wrong on that one) and the player decided to scumclaim as town so I'm trying to avoid repeating that. Town or scum I don't want the people I push to just implode in an unfun manner. I don't even know you yet and I'd like to see what you're like even though I do feel pretty strongly you have red in your pm for this game. It's hard to strike the correct balance between winning and being social.

[Krazy]

What's your take of marci, chosen?

[Krazy]

Marci I think you meant an iso?

Also 3 votes and then nothing is not that fast, this wagon feels like molasses atm actually

[Krazy]

I'm masons with meuh, which you should know since you're also masons with us

[Krazy]

Marci it will be hard to find you town at endgame if you keep not voting, we need your vote to be proactive so that vote logic is comprehensible in the game

[Krazy]

Why do you have ~a level~ of confidence in harumi being scum, moreso than chosen who you've indicated is null?

[Krazy]

Someone being an "easy" or "hard" push I don't think is a very productive way of viewing the game. Chosen looks easy to push because he's not doing anything townie. It's not just a matter of not being scum, it's a matter of being townie. His solve right now is me + meuh, and when I asked him to provide two names outside of us he refused to do so (only giving meuh outside of myself) which reflects an unwillingness to have flexibility in thought, which to me seems a bit scummy for day 1. Like, his push on me doesn't have the confidence to characterize it as tunneled, but he doesn't even have any nulls to show he's actively thinking about different solves or worlds. Basically it feels like he's not solving, and not solving day 1 is scummy (especially if I feel like both of his scumreads are town, which at present I do).

Harumi does need better content.

And yeah, it's not hard for me to refresh when it's not my turn during DnD lol

[Krazy]

That's not entirely true, she said she was feeling better about Chosen push because she thought his current PoE was 0/2 for scum

[Krazy]

Marci I asked for two *outside myself*. In response to that he gave me two, one of which was myself.

also I'm highly tempted to ask if the reason you have six tabs open is because one is the scum pt

[Krazy]

Imagine having a whole debate about whether 2ndchosen1 is scummy when Meuh is right there, being scum.

Is like your new thing trying to push one person no matter what?

If so well... I'm proud of you lmao

[Krazy]

thus begins.... WAGON WARS

who will flip and ethos vote for? I'm looking forward to finding out :3

[Krazy]

If he failed to read the part that said 'outside myself' then he's not processing the game in a townie way

[Krazy]

Here's the better question -- do you *townread* chosen in a way that you *want* him alive tomorrow, marci?

[Krazy]

I can see scum white knighting a townie for towncred if they think the townie gets flipped despite the defense. I still townread marci from earlier in the game but I'm intrigued by how she's going to bat for chosen

[Krazy]

Technically it'd be more accurate to accuse you of chainsawing, I think, Kazy.

[Krazy]

Actually chainsaw maybe doesn't work here since it's day 1 and marci was kinda moving toward meuh anyway, but if they were s/s I think that's the right word

[Krazy]

@krazy, I thought it was kazyan, not marci, you were accusing of chainsaw?
"Technically it'd be more accurate to accuse you of chainsawing, I think, Kazy."

idk I keep struggling with that particular term since there's so many conditions for something to *really* be a chainsaw, it's actually a pretty specific thing that I keep thinking of as basically "attacking someone pushing your buddy to indirectly protect your buddy by lowering the pusher's towncred" -- that's probably way more broad than the wiki definition of chainsawing, but it's the sort of internalized version I think of for the term

In this case, I think Kazy attacking Meuh and Marci attacking Meuh while Meuh is attacking you loosely falls into that pattern, but honestly it might not be that useful of a concept given it can risk coming off as poisoning the well against day 1 pushes.

And in any case I actually think the game is way more fun thinking of Kazy as a fellow town trying to outpush me on their scumread, which matches my sense they're town, but in a world where I'm wrong and you're both scum together then this would actually be, retroactively, be describable as a ballpark chainsaw.

[Krazy]

Basically, I don't think it's correct to say that scumreading someone that is pushing someone else will always be a chainsaw (at least not without a red flip on the defended player) but it is important to consider how strongly you townread the top push of the person you're pushing, since there is always the risk you destroy a wagon on scum. This is why "OMGUS" while flawed actually isn't *that bad* day 1, since if you counter-push the person pushing you you're guaranteed to not be destroying a wagon on scum (there can be other problems with OMGUS, mostly in regard to if both players adopt that philosophy it can lead to TvT tunnels) but I think OMGUS gets a bad rap since your own alignment is the one you actually know, unless you're scum lol

[Krazy]

2ndchosen1 confirmed scum double voter

[Krazy]

2nd hasn't posted as much as Meuh, but it's hard for me to point out anything specifically wrong with them. I'm just getting a bad feeling regarding them, like they're not being sincere.
So I'm going to VOTE: Meuh for now, but 2nd is going on my PoE.

The way this post keeps both options open to me feels just a touch scummy

Could you do a readslist maybe?

[Krazy]

I don't scumresd ethos for activity atm, but I am curious why he insisted he had good availability right now then proceeded to not post since that one big burst

[Krazy]

Who's Flip?

uhh you are, idk why I called you flip there, I think I started conflating "flip" and "trip" in my brain, I've played with someone named "flip" a lot. (emperor flippynips, he mostly has moved on to stealth alts now tho)

I agree with the sentiment here, but the language feels a little like a threat ("if you keep not voting, you're more likely to be seen as scum"). Why use this wording rather than just saying "not voting makes it harder to read players later in the game; please vote so we have that info to analyze later"?

probably cause I want to be right about marci and my ego will be bruised if either a) if she flips scum or b) if she gets misflipped as town

[Krazy]

I wonder if Harumi is scum and I did accidentally destroy her wagon but on the other hand I still don't know that chosen has actually done anything that makes me want to move off him

still need a good take from eth0s on this gamestate and looking forward to the rest of TRIP'S catchup

[Krazy]

woooow

alisae are you stalking me

also <3 hiiiiiiiiii~~~~~

[Krazy]

I need reads on Harumi and 2ndchosen1 from you Alisae-chan <3 <3 <3

[Krazy]

aka you need to read the scum pt to remember which one's your buddy so you can bus? :3 :3 :3

[Krazy]

and tbh im stalking marcistar not u god

understandable but uhh don't be so obvious about it, she's still new mang

Spoiler:

*mafiascum.net does not endorse actual stalking, the cute discussion of stalking here is a reference to joining games with enjoyable players*

[Krazy]

honestly krazy ik that everyone can see ur comet in the sky when its dark out but geez ur not the only person I love here

this is a scumclaim

we all know you love me more than anyone else

[Krazy]

Also, I'm confused. I feel like Marci's defense of Chosen is being perceived as excessive, so wouldn't it make more sense to postulate that Marci and Chosen might be masons rather than discounting the possibility? And wouldn't the logical alternative to explain Marci's defense of Chosen if they're not masons be that Marci is scum white knighting Chosen (if it's unlikely that a townie would be excessive in defending a townie)?

uuhh don't mason hunt day 1? :3

[Krazy]

idk I feel like if I had been better prepped for the frequency and intensity of town shitposting I would have handled some of the regulars on this site a lot better

[Krazy]

Oh crap, my bad, I’ve been trying to catchup with the other two games I’m playing and forgot about this game. Un momento.

don't think you were in prod range were you?

[Krazy]

Kazyan is a time traveler, whoaaaaaaa

[Krazy]

prod range is 36 hours nexus was running 48 hours when it should be 36?
The only reason why I noticed it is because I really wanted to replace in

?? why?

[Krazy]

alisae did you roll scum with harumi?

[Krazy]

no why did you really want to replace in to this game specifically?

[Krazy]

no, I'm not sure why I'd take the positioning I'm taking if they're scum.
They're my top pick for the flip today

yeah that's why I thought you'd position them there since both wagons are pretty developed so it's unlikely you'd get traction

you seem a lot scummier than eth0s and my eth0s read was mostly based on thinking chosen flips scum

why am I your top town?

[Krazy]

because I'm magnetically attracted newbies that use anime avatars and look fun like meuh, harumi, and marcistar.
Oh and also you.

I understand this since that is why I signed up to SE when I did (although that was actually specifically in response to rachelpie's double !! on her /in!!) but idk that I would have bothered the mod about prod timers to get there

[Krazy]

also I'm not palying mafia atm

why do you say stuff like this?

[Krazy]

*e's

[Krazy]

also I'm not palying mafia atm

why do you say stuff like this?

I'm not in any games so I want to play mafia?
ur the one asking me why did I notice that the prod timers were different and why I wanted to play the game that badly.

OHHHH

I thought you were saying you weren't playing mafia *right now in this game*

[Krazy]

in a world where we were town I feel like usually when we agree on stuff things go well

chosen pinged me real hard back on page 6 and then has seemed to just be lurking out hoping the wagon goes away on its own since then while townies argue he hasn't done anything scummy enough to justify a flip

harumi isn't doing much to demonstrate depth of thought

meuh I feel like has been fairly townie and I'm not 100% sure I believe you believe kazy is scum this game

[Krazy]

your entrance really doesn't feel townie to me rn

I feel like I'm saying skitterish things but I feel like I need to say them anyway lol

<3 just my warm welcome to the game, downgrading my townread on your slot to nullscum

[Krazy]

Harumi I feel like is playing a very agenda-based game.

expand on this?

[Krazy]

who would be a harumi buddy?

[Krazy]

Alisae agreeing with me that Cantrip thinking we were possible buddies is probably the towniest thought alisae has had so far lol

I still think er entrance overall is not as townie as alisae's typical rep in tho

[Krazy]

tbh your rep in to flavor vs hectic was pretty dope

I also remember liking your d1 in baker's wrestling game a lot more than this entrance from you atm

[Krazy]

I mean, aside from all the acid vomit of baker's wrestling game

but before that game was complete trash you had good content

[Krazy]

you're townier in illicit substances than here so far

but yeah I'm going to work anyway, try not to make any newbies give up on life because they're afraid of hyperposting

[Krazy]

Trip - Meuh - Kazy
Italiano
Harumi - Chosen - Marci - Ali

That's really not the readslist I want right now

I feel like most of the time when I reevaluate people down they're still town but man have I not liked some recent posts from my hard town

[Krazy]

Yeah maybe she shouldn't be, maybe we need to go into read therapy

i dont know if chosens town tbh, but i feel like they arent the best elim for today.
if chosens actually scum i dont mind being eliminated next if itll help clear the towns confusion.

if chosens town I would probably do something like krazy because then it would mean town is horribly off track and needs to look into different options.
if they're scum i think either alisae/you cantrip. I feel this way because (unless if im missing it) they didn't really interact with eth0s when he was here, and also they barely mention you outside of 135.

just looking at these points back to back, marci still basically has chosen as null. Like she's committed to kinda putting the breaks on the wagon and saying he isn't the best elim, but it's not really clear how or why she's trying to get a better read at him. It's like she's just kinda decided it's better to oppose his wagon without knowing whether he's town or scum and that kinda bothers me for her alignment wise

Also the idea that chosen flipping town means "town is horribly off track" bothers me as well; a day 1 town flip is like, fine? I mean obviously red is theoretically better but even then not *always* depending on the setup. I mostly have felt like a slightly faster day 1 would be better before paranoia set in and reads stagnated, as they're happening to me right now. Chosen town-->Krazy scum bothers me a bit as well

Marci like, what are you doing to make your read of chosen better rn?

[Krazy]

I need reads on Harumi and 2ndchosen1 from you Alisae-chan <3 <3 <3

{Harumi Meuh} 1 scum max 61
I don't think this is scum attacking scum and I think either side could be scum here.
Meuh posting a readlist here is strange and I don't see a reason why Meuh needs to post a readlist right now?
Harumi attacking that readlist could be a scum motivated action.
Both of them being villagers is possible.

{Italiano, 2ndchosen} 1 scum max 226
the justification on the vote pings me from Italiano so if Italiano is scum, 2ndchosen could be town,
but also Italiano being town is quite possible from what I read earlier so it could also be possible that it's Italiano town and 2ndchosen scum.

{kazyan, meuh} 1 scum max 236
the whole thing pings me and reads like scum voting town, I don't like how kazyan is basically describing meuh's actions like everything about it is scummy and it pings me.


As for actual reads
{Krazy}
{Italiano, Marci}
{Cantrip}
{Meuh}
{Harumi, 2ndchosen, kazyan}

alisae I kinda don't like your reads list

partly because if your reads are as quasi-oog-political as they seem I don't get why marci isn't top tier town for you, like I guess I get why you'd be like "oh yeah krazy can be top town so he can die tonight or whatever" that's fine but if you're just like "lol I'm not flipping marci d1 she's too cool" I don't get why she isn't also tier 1

I'm not sure I get why cantrip is below italiano

I feel like you should have kazyan as townier at least? idk I think kazy feels very townie, I get that you identified the one post pushing meuh since it very much was clear that they were like 'ima push meuh now' so the push feels kinda forced.

I don't like how the italiano read in the (italiano/chosen) pairing differs so much in thought process from the readslistt

idk

this readslist fucks up my read of your slot a little even though I still really did like that one post from eth0s and should probably have you up a tier, this is just my like kneejerk reaction to what I'm seeing

that + chosen keeps not doing anything and people keep giving him a pass which makes it hard to tell if he's scum with a buddy that won't bus or two scum that just know he flips town and want the wagon to go through anyway, I definitely feel like the wagon is just all town but idk what that actually means for gamestate

ehhhhhhhh

[Krazy]

236 comes from the perspective of someone who:
-has lost their only town game
-read the game where Prism snowed the entire game with like uber sweaty tryhardness

like kazy is actually just naked town and the way they want to play is that they want to be the one leading the wagon because at least that way they know at least the town is the one doing the things

I know, I *know* it reads identical to an open wolf trying to just do like their own wagon

but they're town

trust

*and no, I don't really dislike anything from Marci including 289 individually, it just bothers me a lot that it feels like she is like, doing things that feel like it's making it harder to solve chosen and it's hard for me to continue townreading her even if I still want and think she flips town if that makes sense

Like I actively townread Meuh, so I feel like I have a reason to oppose that wagon. She has chosen as like null but she's just decided he's a bad flip and that POV is just very ??? when the meuh case to me doesn't feel good at all

[Krazy]

Do you think I'm giving Italiano too much credit?

not really I just think trip has been pretty town lately

I'm not sure italiano is outside either range but I don't really dislike what he's saying

[Krazy]

if it's harumi I will be annoyed but only a little bit

I wonder if I should actually go there at least until I get a reads list

but I just refuse to move off chosen when he continues to not do anything, I feel like I can't allow a gamestate where quasi-active lurking is allowed to live

[Krazy]

I want to see what chosen does at f-1 tbh

I don't know that he does anything that changes my read at all but I need to know if there is any amount of pressure that will make him start like, doing more readable stuff

I don't even scumread almost any of his recent posts but I remember my *feeling* on the page 6 stuff and I don't want to forget it when he's doing ~null, ok stuff.

[Krazy]

While my one towngame and one major spectation definitely inform how I want to play, my actual reason for pushing Meuh so hard is the falsification method that I described gave me a very loud, immediate "yes" on Meuh and a "no" on everyone else in the game.

can you walk me through this and how it would differentiate shitposty town from scum

[Krazy]

So basically it's "read the iso preflipping them red and see if it fits"?

[Krazy]

intensive purposes

*triggered*

Spoiler:

don't nag alisae about "intents and purposes" don't nag alisae about...

[Krazy]

Can you link me to either of these games? I found this (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82624) by searching, but didn't see Alisae in the player list...

Alisae was one of the heads of the heads of Wondertank

here's the iso from repping in to Flav vs Hec - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

[Krazy]

@Krazy: Seriously, what % are you at for scum!Chosen? I don't feel strongly about Chosen yet, so I'm tempted to just /barn your read and see how they flip.

tbh I'm probably down to 50/50, either they flip scum or they don't

I just... feel like their response to the wagon on them has been to basically shut down and then they got kinda white knighted by a couple slots and it's just really hard to evaluate how that all shakes out without a flip

the way harumi positioned herself on chosen/meuh was almost scummy enough for me to think that was just wolfing

but if chosen IS scum then it's like.... fine?

I just feel like right now chosen is more interested in not getting flipped than in finding scum and that makes me think he's one of the better shots for scum day 1, but it *is day 1* and I kinda wanted to just channel the confidence I had when chosen did start posting stuff

like partly for me the amount of resistance the wagon got without chosen really doing anything particularly townie makes me more curious about the flip, but I'm not like "omg this always flips scum" at all

[Krazy]

Like I don't even think I ever hit a full 70% on chosen, generally my day 1 townreads, on the whole, tend to be a bit better than my scumreads, which they should be since townreads should just always be more accurate than scumreads, but generally I'll have a pretty good poe but maybe only be like 60% on having scum in the right order

right now I'd say if {chosen/harumi} flips 0 scum I'd be pretty surprised but it's possible and when I see stuff like alisae's readslist I get a little shook that maybe I really am just on the wrong path or wrote eth0s off too easily

[Krazy]

I kinda feel like I'm mono blue this game and you're usually a town that plays mono red but this game you feel like mono green

[Krazy]

the way harumi positioned herself on chosen/meuh was almost scummy enough for me to think that was just wolfing

what post?
am i missing something here?

305 the one you'd just quoted, I didn't like how it was so non-committal to both leading wagons

[Krazy]

Harumi can you walk me through meuh scumread?

[Krazy]

"if your reads are as quasi-oog-political as they seem I don't get why marci isn't top tier town for you"
I've no clue what to even get from this qop

apologies for not being around more, literally got 13hr days at work till thurs. i am tired when i get back.

Alisae is either putting me as top town to:
-a) hope the scum nightkill me so e doesn't have to sort me or
-b) planning to nightkill me to get towncred for townreading me during day

Basically alisae is townreading me for reasons that have more to do with a potential n1 kill than anything else (this is truly nai btw, e would do this as either alignment pretty sure)

Which is probably why marci is on tier 2, e wants her alive tomorrow lmao so I figured it out anyway

[Krazy]

Ehh tracker isn't a very good tpr in role madness

I mean it became strong in that game because so many scum died so fast, but it's usually mediocre

Allso I forgot e was 3p in the one game but I think e was townsiding? Idk were u ali?

[Krazy]

You were a 'fiend' as wondertank

[Krazy]

Lyncher/survivor, so it probably made sense to townside d1 which is the part of the game I was referring to, although trip is right that's probably not a good analogy for this game

[Krazy]

Yeah what other games have we both been players? I feel like we're usually modding each other and we're not often actually players together

[Krazy]

The jester one? Were you in that?

[Krazy]

Try to say the name, this 'which game' conversation is probably super zzz for the newbies/everyone else

[Krazy]

Just find the game dude I don't know what you mean

[Krazy]

No, snaptake would be that was nancy, she was harley in our arkham academy super hydra

[Krazy]

Zzz feel like the noobs will just want to skip this page.

I wonder if I should go back to town on you just because I don't think you'd try to play scum wincon by spamming a newbie queue game with white noise

And yeah that'd be my guess, I didn't read the game tho

[Krazy]

*newbs? I'm not using 'noobs' pejoratively there

[Krazy]

You probably need to like, really curb back the frequency of posting, try to condense more

I'm not saying you're a bad influence so much as idk, you're acting like someone is going to post before your next post so you gotta complete the thought but that's just not going to happen here. Ease up on the gas

[Krazy]

anyway if we could like gloss the last page and a half in two sentences it would be:
-me and alisae don't have that many games where we've both been players and we don't remember the games where we were players very well
-therefore meta is bullshit and can be ignored

so idk, back to the actual game now hopefully

[Krazy]

Meuh, putting aside Alisae's hyperposting, do you think 348 is a townie or scummy reads list?

[Krazy]

yeah wanna move marci back to town

I don't think alisae is a good day 1 atm but I might push that slot hard tomorrow (even if I'm dead! )

I feel like the game actually makes sense for it to be harumi/alisae, alisae feeling like harumi isn't trying enough to be townie would both explain alisae's weird posturing around chosen and eir insistence to spam post or something idk, I also feel like alisae would feel the need to bus early for towncred so e can get enough positioning to endgame while maybe not actually bussing day 1

but I still don't actually want to move off chosen lmao

maybe I should just stop posting and passively allow harumi to go through as a wagon

idk why people are still on you, maybe I should start looking at votes. I know kazy is like hypertunneled but that's fine, there still should not actually be more than one vote on your wagon imo

[Krazy]

oh the wagon on meuh is literally just harumi and kazy

okay nevermind

why is cantrip still on italiano? Ohhh because he keeps planning to wall and then hasn't gotten to it.

I guess I should just stop posting or doing anything until cantrip gets to the point where he can actually flesh out his italiano read.

*no timer, but I will not post again until Cantripmancer does the post he wants to do on Italiano and either asks people to vote with him or changes votes* **

** unless I need to prodge

[Krazy]

I feel like it'd be atypical for one newbie scum to spend all of day 1 just kinda voteparking her buddy, I guess it's possible but it certainly wouldn't be my first choice for a pairing

glad to see you Trip, interested to see where you want to go after moving off Italiano.

[Krazy]

UNVOTE:

I want cantrip to know he can vote anywhere without it being a functional hammer

choose the wagon of your heart's content cantrip

[Krazy]

No. Nononono. do not self vote. Do not talk about self voting. Do not.

No. *hard no*

[Krazy]

Do you think chosen would take out his frustration over being pushed day 1 as scum by active lurking or do you think his muted response to his wagon was town indicative?

[Krazy]

Self voting is only an option if you need to self hammer at 20 minutes left or something, there's no reason to even talk about it with over 24 hours left

Chosen why are you still voting me?

[Krazy]

We got 36 hours left

I want to see where trip votes off italiano, chosen needs to get off me regardless of his alignment, and alisae if you actually want harumi I don't get why you're not voting her

Why is this vote count so passive

[Krazy]

Trip I won't snaphammer so you can still vote chosen if you so desired

harumi remind me of your chosen read? Also what do you think of alisae so far?

[Krazy]

Kazy your wagon is dead, you've lost harumi and at this point if meuh is scum you should just blame me in post if you're town

who do you want after meuh?

[Krazy]

Kazy still town for you yeah? How do you feel about italiano and cantrip?

[Krazy]

alisae could very easily go through day 2, especially if I am dead

also alisae I think 579 was saying he'd get tilted if he was scum, it's a post written from 'what would I do if I was scum and got pushed to flip d1' isn't it?

[Krazy]

Alisae I guess, but that's not happening either. So I guess Harumi or 2ndchosen1. None of my scumreads are going to be eliminated, so I'll just sheep the leading wagon.

Regarding 2nd's reaction to the E-2 wagon, I don't know.

you think meuh/alisae is the team?

[Krazy]

Try not to ogi yourself town by asking publicly about daychat trip, ask the mod by pm stuff like that

[Krazy]

Like, I've liked chosen's more recent posting, but he seemed to reconsider on me but then never changed votes

like I can't point to a post and say "yeah this is where he was hunting scum"

I don't know that he flips scum but I feel like he's made it hard to find him town if he is town

I don't really like harumi's posturing around the wagons on meuh/chosen and I'm not opposed to that wagon pretty much at all either at this point

if meuh is scum I'll feel a little bad for killing that wagon but I feel like I never let a day 1 push on meuh go through

italiano is feeling more town to me

[Krazy]

Question: Is mafia daychat the standard on this site? Or more common than not?

can you explain why you asked this actually, like were you imagining some sort of PT communication with Marci or Harumi?

[Krazy]

Expand?

[Krazy]

My problem with 562 is that he townleans me and then doesn't move his vote, like what the hell is he doing with his vote?? At least Meuh moved it when I called her out on having it in a ?? spot after her readslist.

It's like when he scumread me and then waited 12 hours to vote me

Harumi had 1 vote on her wagon, why doesn't he just vote Harumi there if he's town? Why is he so cautious with is vote?

I mean I'm sure there could be town reasons, but when I cannot understand someone's vote logic idk how I'm supposed to find them town

[Krazy]

Do you think if you were both town that you'd be swooping in to save him by now?

[Krazy]

No I meant if you were VT and he was VT do you think you could find him as town

[Krazy]

We probably should take a claim from one of chosen or harumi in the next 6 to 12 hours

[Krazy]

I mean Harumi is also an okay elim if only because then it forces Marci to stop sitting on that wagon, which is productive for the gamestate regardless of Marci's alignment. If Marci is scum she's using the harumi tunnel to position herself away from other wagons and if she's town then she's going to have a hard time re-evaluating the gamestate if she's wrong on that slot.

I'm also thinking about Alisae saying Harumi was top lim then flipping to Chosen but yeah idk

VOTE: chosen

claim boyo this is a de facto e-1 since alisae will definitely vote you and cantrip isn't opposed to your wagon either

[Krazy]

pretty much
I'm town lean on Italiano, Kazyan, and Cantrip
IVD has good takes, posts like 67 especially sing town
Kazyan's 109 seems to be a decent analysis of a D1 posting pattern on Krazy.
Cantrip's interaction with Kazyan looks towny to me.

Nulls for the rest right now

when is D1 end?
I'll give a small list
Alisae, I'd Townread you for the info alone. Moreso the move with the hammer and E-1, I don't think scum would be ballsy enough to do that D1. it screams town at me.
IVD, townlean, sparse posts but is sharp on what comes out. voting presence feels weak because of it though,
Krazy, townlean, I thought it was opportunistic to jump on a latecomer, I do see good things from her in terms of content
Cantrip, townlean, it's near the end of D1, I've mostly seen delay but I can't criticize on this point. the walls are nice and I like that he puts in the quotes, it makes me think in the future he wants his post understood easily in iso
Meuh, null, tbf fair to kazyan she has actually done stuff I did as scum, but it's D1 and I wouldn't consider that a severe D1 problem.
Kazyan, scumlean, I like his statements where he describes how he's reasoning, but I can't help but think he's picked out someone who exhibits signs I showed in last game. Almost courting my vote by meta, I don't like it.
Marci, scumlean, I've been unable to parse whether her defense on me has been about pocketing me, but it has gone on far longer than I thought it would honestly. I don't really see it as earning towncred on a flip as that'd be the first thing most would ask.
Harumi, scumlean, same issue of being a non-entity in terms of only a vote presence. I'm behind her by 3 posts

Pedit:
I'm like half falling asleep and stared at the cookie monster gif way to long, so that's all I can give right now, night

I'm curious about the kazy trajectory here as well as the 'sing town" and "scream town" statements which feel a little weird

[Krazy]

if she's town then she's going to have a hard time re-evaluating the gamestate if she's wrong on that slot.

do you think it will be??? i thought it was gonna be fine if this scenario happens... but maybe... aaaaah

oh, not really no, harumi can flip scum. I think I said something different than what I meant. I more meant you will have a hard time evaluating the game if you are town and don't get that flip

[Krazy]

At this point, I'd probably say I'm scumleaning on Harumi, because they're keeping up their pattern of messages being either memeing, or talking how they don't like an aspect of someone else's gameplay. I'd like more meaningful contribution.

Can't exactly say I didn't have this coming.

I don't think we need to keep up the emoticon debate since at this point it's clear we're not learning from it. If it helps, I was just talking about the use of them in general.

Krazy seemed pretty eager to jump on Italiano for something that seems really minor, and I also don't like how he responded to the memey part of 62 without responding to the non-memey part. Going to keep an eye on him.
As for Italiano himself, I'm kind of getting town vibes? Hard to tell though.
Kazyan looks pretty eager to hunt scum but that's probably just a playstyle thing.
Most of the others haven't really gotten my attention yet, so that's just my thoughts right now.

don't mind these takes

For example:

Random thought, but even if I'm wrong on one of them, Meuh and Harumi are never ever scum together after Meuh has committed herself to use the sunglasses emote in every post after Harumi's emotes complaint post

It could

totally

be Meuh and Harumi. Something something newbie scum like Day 1 distancing, something something WIFOM.

This, and the post before it, uh. Seems a bit odd.
The whole thing about the conspiracy seems a bit jokey but I can’t tell for sure. This post makes it seem legit though.
Speaking of which, bringing up WIFOM in this situation is counterproductive because WIFOM can explain anything.
It’d probably be better to determine which are more likely (and I doubt Krazy

literally

meant 100% certainty.)

liked this take too

This might come off as a tad evasive but it's a bit difficult to do a full iso read when five pages show up overnight

My rough readlist would have to be as follows:

{Krazy}
{Kazyan}
{alisae, cantripmancer, italiano, 2ndchosen} - I know I said I didn't like 2nd but I took another look and I've decided I might have been suffering from confirmation bias. Still a null for me though.
{Marcistar} - bit skittish and defensive which I don't like, but it's probably a playstyle thing so eh.
{meuh}

I kinda superficially don't mind this list but it is troublesome that both alisae and chosen are in the middle tier, I feel like harumi feels like she easily fits into a lot of scum worlds still

Honestly it isn't looking super good since we don't have any solid kill candidates at any point

Not much coming from me, since I made the mistake signing up for two games, and this game is very active so it's hard for me to keep up with it.

Kinda starting to loosen up on Meuh though since their latest posts seem productive, so marcistar is probably my candidate for now but that's really tentative.

VOTE: Marcistar

don't like that I don't think harumi actually expects this vote to do anything, feels empty

[Krazy]

If there's {at least} one scum in chosen/harumi this game is fine

if there is 0 scum in those two this game is hard

I'm fine with either one flipping scum, Harumi might even be scummier in some ways?

I'm still worried maybe I derailed a wagon off Harumi and chosen is a miss

idk I feel like my townie kazy has been hard death tunneling meuh all day and I really don't like meuh for a hit or at least not for a day 1 and this marci-->harumi, kazy-->meuh, krazy-->chosen dynamic has resulted in this day stalling out really hard

I probably was supposed to just compromise with marci earlier and go for harumi? idk

feel like I've played this dayphase wrong somehow... hmmmm

[Krazy]

but it's weird because I don't really feel like harumi was scummy until the second half of this dayphase

idk

probably just need a flip right or wrong somewhere

[Krazy]

sorry I'll stop spam stream of consciousnessing

chosen claim please

[Krazy]

I feel good about Trip, the one concern is just how long it took him to case Italiano and the kinda slowness in moving back to pushing someone else. If he's scum I guess he's working very hard to present towniness so I appreciate that, but *often* he is just town here, and I really liked 140 still

I feel good about Kazy. 578 gave me just a moment of worry if only because it felt like a thought process he might have had as a plan if he was s/s with chosen, but I still feel like stuff like 109 just makes him feel uninformed-POV

I feel good about Italiano, posts like 600 are townie for him I think. He's not hard outside his range but he veers town right now. If he's scum he's playing good.

If I'm still alive tomorrow, I'll talk more about Meuh.

I mostly like Marci, but the way she's responded to the Chosen wagon gives me pause. Makes me reluctant to give her an EoD hard town.

I still liked the chosen post from eth0s, although eth0s's vote logic was kinda not vibing with my reads. Some of Alisae's posts have bothered me, the readslist and actually the "WHAT NANCY?" stuff which felt weirdly performative. Alisae is a slot I leave to day 2 though, right or wrong.

I liked Harumi toward the start of game and have liked her less as the day has worn on and she hasn't really picked up her content output.

I actually don't hate chosen's reads but the lack of any push behind his reads or any solving content makes it hard to know what to do with his reads. He feels super disengaged. I think if he is town, then if he'd ever voted anyone else this game I could have eventually found him town, but voteparking me literally all of day 1 is just a great way to make me uninterested in seeing you alive on day 2.

I think that's basically ordered. This does not feel like a game where I'm shooting 50%+ though, ngl.

[Krazy]

don't like that I don't think harumi actually expects this vote to do anything, feels empty

do you think that vote actually comes from scum though?

it's just hard for me to see such an empty push coming from town but it could go either way I suppose

like if you're town starting a vanity wagon with under 72 hours left, don't you like, give some impression you care about the vote?

[Krazy]

I don't know why Harumi would place that vote on marci as scum?

I feel like "would they do x as scum" is always the wrong question, it's "do they do x as town"

Not understanding the specific reason Harumi does something as scum doesn't bother me for her being scum, what bothers me is not understanding why she's doing that thing as town

[Krazy]

the more you talk the more I think my guttake from your readslist was right that harumi/alisae is a solid solve but that I need to flip chosen because he refuses to actually use his vote on scum

that's probably cold but I still think it's right to take the claim from chosen at this point simply so I know whether I have to solve for that world or not

your argument for townreading harumi off that vote is very scummy

[Krazy]

eh our fight never makes this dayphase not ending in either harumi or chosen

no matter how much I scumread you right now, I would never day 1 you here

I don't think me having you in PoE needs to be toxic either, you can just be "possible scum" day 1 and then I get to play "would alisae bus [x] buddy d1"?

I would ALMOST take a claim from harumi too, but I have Meuh and Italiano on Chosen and I don't have them on Harumi right now so Chosen is the slot that *should* claim here, despite the fact that I think almost all of us *would* vote Harumi too.

pedit: meuh does that sound about right to you?

[Krazy]

Why are you not claiming? If you were TPR I would hope you would have done something to get this wagon off you well before now.

You can still be flip flopping on slots and move your vote to the person you currently think is scum. Regardless of alignment I don't get why you're not voting a viable counter-wagon. You should be voting Harumi here probably.

I'm still very confident on several townreads, my lack of confidence on day 1 scumreads has more to do with the fact that it's day 1, I have very little information to go off, and am dealing with a lot of weird positioning people have done on your wagon.

I explained current POV on Italiano and Trip here, on this same page we're currently on: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12607582

If you continue to not claim I think we just hammer you with no claim.

.... if you regard your reads list as shitty and barebones, why was the other readslist also shitty and barebones? where is your non shitty and non barebones reads list?

[Krazy]

Hammer him.

[Krazy]

Anyone off-wagon, doesn't matter who

[Krazy]

I can't say anything for sure, but I have a gut feeling that you flip VT.

this is a little scummy from kazy but we're still hammering chosen now

[Krazy]

No, arguing you specifically flip VT feels scummy, saying you flip town is fine

[Krazy]

Why can you suddenly engage in real time now that you're dying but you've refused to do so for the entire preceding dayphase

[Krazy]

Hammer him.

Anyone off-wagon, doesn't matter who

[Krazy]

True, but scum would know whether he flips town or scum here. There's worlds where he flips town, but the worlds where he flips town require him to be doing gambits when he shouldn't be doing gambits and should just be playing straight. Saying he flips VT requires first presuming he flips town and then working out why he is playing this way as town. I also considered the world but I wouldn't call it a top pick.

Why do townies always flip on me when I say they're scummy for defending scummy play. He's playing very scummy. You assuming he flips VT over scum is kinda scummy, but you're still probably town. Hammer him.

[Krazy]

Like you feel like I'm browbeating you but fmpov you've mostly spent this day aggressively fighting me on everything and tunneling someone I think is town. I know that from your recent games you might be like "damn I need to be the one leading things and stuff" but like, it is okay to just work with people sometimes.

You should not let someone who lurks the entire day and then refuses to claim go to day 2. Even if he's town he's the correct flip here because scum will be able to use all of day 2 as a pretext to just go back to him which will make the gamestate unreadable. Town needs this flip now that he's refused to claim.

[Krazy]

Consider that like, three people have just been vote parking on quasi-vanity wagons all day: you, chosen, and marci. You were like hard locked on Meuh but could not towncase chosen. Marci was hard locked on Harumi but could not towncase chosen. Chosen dropped two readslists and continued to vote park me even when I wasn't in my PoE. To win a game of mafia, you have to at least be willing to vote someone you think is mafia. I should NOT have more than one hundred posts from this dayphase. The only reason that happened is because people are being too stubborn. This day should have been over literal real life days ago, right or wrong we should *already* have a flip and frankly we should *already* be on day 2.

It's entirely possible chosen is town. It's entirely possible harumi is scum, or even that harumi is town too and I'm 0/2 in my PoE. That's all possible. My goal has to be to get the game to having a readable gamestate, and if someone *has totally incomprehensible vote logic because they're not voting their scumreads* then they have to go because it will be impossible to find them town which means the scum will just be able to continue to push them with no recompense.

Sometimes it is just okay to let town be a little wrong.

Is it possible I should have compromise with Marci and switched to Harumi? Sure. But I'm never doing that after the refusal to claim. Because if chosen was too hard to read before, he's WAY too 'noisy' of a slot to leave to day 2 now.

[Krazy]

I wish I could direct night actions in a way that the (redacted) would get that scum wouldn't

I don't know how to wifom in a way to get the (night action) to occur that I actually want so I'm just not going to go there

But there's a chance a tpr thinks I want something that I'm not sure I want. I think I can say that? Idk.

[Krazy]

Maybe just claim man

[Krazy]

Boom day 2 scum down and a big miss in the night

I mean Kazy was naked town after the way the hammer played out but this is still good because there might be a world where we have either auto or close to auto

This does not feel like a C game to me

[Krazy]

Let me think, don't do this yet but let me know if this sounds right

For massclaim, Friendly Neighbor, Doctor, or Tracker would claim first

Each of those confirm we are in A or B and thus confirm that mass claim is worthwhile today

Cop or Jailkeeper do not claim before we do a pass on everyone for FN, Doctor, or Tracker claims, because if we are in C then I'm not sure we have auto

We also obviously don't have auto in worlds where roleblocker hit JK n1 (false clear), roelblocker hit cop n1 (no result), or jailkeeper hit FN by accident in B

So there could be reasons to not

In fact I think the *first* thing we do is double check no one claims a FN result, and we can revisit massclaim/no massclaim after we wait for everyone to claim no reception of FN?

Round 1:
*Everyone plays normal, and confirms no reception of FN*

Round 2:
*Everyone plays normal, but Doctor or Tracker considers claiming to start massclaim/auto*

Round 3:
*Decision on massclaim is fully re-evaluated if no claims by this point*

I'll go ahead and lead by saying I do not have FN result

[Krazy]

I think the only slot that works noticeably worse post hammer than pre hammer is Cantripmancer, so we can do a quick sanity check on my townlean there. Ali how are you on Trip?

[Krazy]

Oh yeah and I mean, obviously if a cop has a guilty they just claim their guilty lmao

but trackers with hard innos today probably just always out with their inno, unless it's like on the dead guy which would be sad given how naked town kazy was for how the hammer played out

[Krazy]

With 7 alive, 4 innos would be auto (tracker clear + soft jk clear)

3 innos (cop clear + fn) would be so close to auto that if we can't win with that poe we don't deserve win

If we're just masons, we don't claim today I guess

[Krazy]

Kazyan down kinda sucks, I was townreading them, at least it wasn’t a PR.

Ngl at first I misread the death post as saying *Krazy* was dead and got confused when they sent a message after LMAO

It's probably not unreasonable at this point to just treat me like flipped town

[Krazy]

Also like, a clear on harumi right now would be functionally as valuable as two other innos

I think most scenarios in B the game is close to auto, I'd need to check scenarios in A

[Krazy]

Yeah, B is like always a win here, that's why we want the FN claim lmao

[Krazy]

Any feel on Cantrip today Meuh?

[Krazy]

It's more, if JK or tracker has an inno today and they die tonight, then that could swing from close to auto to a losable game

as I said an inno on Harumi is very close to game winning simply for effect on PoE

[Krazy]

It's fine though we can just play normal until someone decides they want to claim

Marci is like, objectively poorly positioned irt chosen, but if there's no inno on Harumi then it's still possible she was just right on the wrong scum for the day

[Krazy]

Not surprised, he was heavily spewed town by the way the hammer played out. Probably killed for being obvtown. I would say the only slot it points away from is Alisae but that's for unreliable and somewhat convoluted reasons

[Krazy]

lol marci your positioning there is really scummy <3

anyway who you think is maf?

as for kazy, again I don't want to shut down spec, but I think kazy was probably killed because they hammered in the middle of chosen trying to do his VT claim gambit thing which meant they were almost never s/s

I guess we could evaluate their fos too but I'm not sure that's a stronger indictment than the other reasons scum kill kazy there

[Krazy]

I was more saying that I think the idea that Kazy kill points to Meuh is weak, not that people shouldn't talk about it

I can step back, sorry

[Krazy]

Yeah just been a pissy mood all day

probably hung over from last night I guess

I'm super pumped about this game but I might be a little snappy

need harumi posts since I think her view on gamestate is most interesting to me right now

[Krazy]

@Harumi

You know your alignment which means you are functionally the most informed player in the game about who is or is not mafia

hit us with your reads when you can <3