Newbie 2054 - GAME OVER

[Alisae]

[Alisae]

btw I haven't played a newbie game since matrix6 i have no idea what the setup is I just came to

bully

play with the newest and latest talent.
UNVOTE:

[Alisae]

hold on im busy digging for mhsmith old IC posts they're gold.

[Alisae]

and tbh im stalking marcistar not u god

[Alisae]

honestly krazy ik that everyone can see ur comet in the sky when its dark out but geez ur not the only person I love here

[Alisae]

aka you need to read the scum pt to remember which one's your buddy so you can bus? :3 :3 :3

TRUE

[Alisae]

okay found it
this is for the newbies
back in my day in 2017 we had ICs which basically helped newbies get familiar with the site and mhsmith was one of the few that actually gave tips for playing. I'm not sure how much weight they hold now but most of the stuff he posted about came all of the games he played so its like, not a bad start.

[Alisae]

honestly krazy ik that everyone can see ur comet in the sky when its dark out but geez ur not the only person I love here

this is a scumclaim

we all know you love me more than anyone else

ah shit

[Alisae]

btw really cool site hack for reading up:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 40&ppp=200

it increases the post per page from 25 to 200
its very useful since you can just click the multiquote button and then go on your way.

I'll read now ig

[Alisae]

I have a tendency to use hyperbole and confidence regarding reads. Part of this hyperbole is saying 'im masons with x' or 'i have a guilty on y' -- these are not softs and I am not trying to rolefish or anything like that. They are just a way of expressing my reads in shorthand, usually to indicate I liked or disliked one specific post. For example, I might say "I'm masons with marcistar" and that would be more a way to express my initial take on their first post and not a real hardclaim. I say that because I was about to say "I'm masons with marcistar" -- usually I'd just leave it at that since people in normals/large themes would usually get that it wasn't a serious claim.

Look Krazy ik you have to go out of your way to groom the whole playerlist but u can't be a negative influence on the playerlist you know.
the newbies here look up to you, if they started to do this in games it'll blow up on them!

[Alisae]

god be a proper role model jesus

[Alisae]

ok that's actually an inteligent take shit

[Alisae]

i forgot that not everyone is a sweaty tryhard gamer like me
fuck

[Alisae]

beating the mafia with the power of friendship can be problematic (it can be hard to reevaluate people if you don't *want* to reevaluate them) but I still would rather have that then a highly toxic game, which can occur even in newbie queue.

ooh i hope the games here don't get too toxic but yes we need to look at things objectively and make smart decisions, regardless of who we like or dislike

Games can get toxic but also games can be really fun where everyone is nice and stuff. ik I can get quite toxic from time to time but it's mostly just trash talk.

--

I do think Kazyan looks like a townie here, just from reading his posts and his reply to Krazy's read, although I think anyone contributing to the conversation is more likely to be town than people not talking, right? Most games I've played the more silent the town, the better for scum

There is a phrase known as "Dead Air Dead Villager" which basically states that the thread is completely abandoned and is like a ghost town, scum are okay with the gamestate and that someone is probably gonna flip town. It doesn't really apply here generally speaking not speaking is bad regardless of what ur alignment is.
If ur town and u don't speak then you're not trying to solve a puzzle.
If ur scum and u don't speak you get PoE'd and then its really hard to come back, but also the other player who is ur teammate has to deal with the fact that all of the pressure on them is to carry. Ideally if ur scum should be posting because every post you write is another post that's not being posted by a villager.

[Alisae]

whats chainsawing???

Chainsaw Defense

The general form of this tell is "a player who defends another player by attacking the other player's attacker is very probably scum".

The key to identifying this tell is intent - it is possible to confuse Chainsaw Defense with a player who simply finds the attacker scummy and has no intent of defense. In general, you can be reasonably sure that this tell is involved if a) the player supposedly using Chainsaw Defense has not previously been especially critical of the player he is now attacking, and b) the player supposedly using Chainsaw Defense seems to find the player he is supposedly defending at least reasonably pro-town.

The extreme form of this tell is Mutual Chainsaw Defense, where two players defend each other by attacking each others' attackers. This is a major scumtell, and Tarhalindur would be willing to lynch/vig both players with only this tell as justification.

The Chainsaw Defense is named after the mental image of a player ripping apart another player with a chainsaw for daring to attack his ally. It should not be confused with the Cochrane Defense, which can also be referred to as the Chainsaw Defense (the Wiki refers to the Cochrane Defense this way), which is a gambit made by players investigated as scum. The Chainsaw Defense can also be referred to as the Bodyguard Defense in order to prevent confusion.

UPDATE: After further analysis, Tarhalindur has determined that the Chainsaw Defense is only trustworthy once the player defended has been revealed to be group scum (once the player defended is proved to be Mafia, any player that used Chainsaw Defense on the dead scum should be scrutinized). Otherwise, it is a null tell. Mutual Chainsaw Defense may, however, still be an outright scumtell; more research is required here.



Taken from the wiki

the really important thing is here context on if this is scummy or not. For example at the start of d2 in this game, murdercat posts a case on scum!polar bears

These are the reasons that Noraa is scum:

1. Early tone is over the top and later shifts
2. Same response to pressure as in Death Curse
3. Gloria is too invested in attacking me, given her limited involvement

Spoiler: 1 - Tone

Noraa knows that she has a signature tone as town that is hard for her to fake as scum due to the fact that she doesn't enjoy the role. She also knows that this tone is highly effective on Pooky.

AHEM
*jumps around and hits everyone on the head with a heavy textbook*
IM CONFTOWN
I never ever thought I'd say this in this game but I am AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
*does some breathing exercises*
*breathe in*
*breathe out*
*throws a slipper at murder*
I be happy. Btw atm I wanna yeet shelly to the sun just bc she scummy af. I also wanna yeet UNO to the sun for lurking big time yesterday during the scroll passing periods and alivening the moment a new day starts.
Ahem T^T Mush dont hurt me for the fluff. *hides behind murder*

There is a joyful happiness that exudes from her posting like summer rain.

This post in particular.

It feels extremely pure and innocent.

I believe that Noraa's tone this game is fake and over the top.

me wuz joking btw. me wills follow some rules

Don't use AtE. 100% scum indicative. you use that evilness to pocket me >:(
scum scum scum scum scum scum scum scum scum
HMPH

u thought I would tunnel u. 200% scum indicative.
town!me has been proven to be able to hunt scum!alisaes.
tell the truth. ur scum again aren't you?

back for round two of Lets break Noraa's heart

NOPE. NOT IN MY GOOD CHRISTIAN HOUSEHOLD(im not even christian but like sh)

VOTE: VOTE: VOTE: VOTE: VOTE: Double the trouble

*raises my eyebrow*

O_o
o_O
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
me shalls give rvs TR lollipops to u two. I expects green apple TR lollipops back tho and they must be green apple or blue raspberry!

For your consideration, two of Noraa's town isos:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

Skim through posts 1-500 in each of those games. Notice how much more exaggerated Noraa is here?

Now you might just look at those posts and think it is within Noraa's normal range, but look at page 2 in her iso.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12398736

Nothing in page 2 of the iso is anything like these first posts, suggesting to me that the tone is fake and she is having trouble keeping it up. Noraa is even aware of this and points it out:

The baby talk will be back tomorrow when I'm less sleepy

Spoiler: 2 - Response to Pressure

Noraa has trouble making up cases as scum. Look at these posts in death curse (links rather than quotes due to length):
8962
9127
9233

Now compare to the case that Noraa has on me in this game:
2513
2523

For full context, the following posts are:
2514
2524

In both cases, there is no actual analysis happening. Noraa is linking a lot of quotes, providing a superficial description of the events, and claiming that I am scum off them without actually providing any reasoning behind her claims just as she did in my last scum game with her.

Spoiler: 3 - Gloria

Before I begin this section on Gloria, it is important to point out that I am

not

making a case based on activity here. I believe that Gloria has had RL stuff going on and I don't use arguments like that because, as I said with BM, I think it's kinda shitty. However, given Gloria's lack of activity you would not expect her to 1. be particularly invested in the game and 2. have strong opinions about me. However, there are a number of instances that suggest to me that Gloria is in a scum PT and is aware of certain pushes that need to be made (currently, this refers to attacking me, in an attempt to reduce the influence that I am having on the game as I am correct about Noraa scum).

First, some evidence that Gloria shouldn't be very aware of the gamestate:

Pichu, Gloria isnt feeling well or something.

She's been talking to me a little bit about the game but methinks she's either sick or sad.

Apparently they haven't been talking very much about the game. Fair enough. Now let's look at the Gloria posts that come after this.

VOTE: Murderkitty

I don’t like the way he’s been pushing us, it feels very disingenuous to me. He sees Noraa as easy miselimbait and I feel didn’t engage me in good faith.

DT shading us for my not posting enough is also bas but they might actually believe it. I don’t trust murderkitty and how he’s been trying to drive a miselim without following up on the answers to the questions he asked of me. What happened to that MC? Why did you ask me those questions, then fail to follow up on them? Why didn’t you ask me to explain or elaborate on those reads? You just dropped it altogether. I want to know why and I’m not moving my vote until you explain this.

This is a strong reaction for someone barely following the game and against someone who Noraa had not really been pushing at all, no?

Well we are a hydra, so are you saying you’re townreading me?

Well I’m really trying. If you recall I think it was either my first or second post to LLD in Death Curse was I expect to be generally useless early game and I wasn’t going through that rl thing at that time. I’m not good at larges. I get lost with the sheer number of players I have to sort, pages to read etc.

I still like Ydrasee because she’s engaging a slot and Pichu and I think this is probably town! MT we’re seeing. Wrt BM I did like their sincerity but as I said before I have no meta on them and if Noraa’s right about them being TPR then it’s obviously a bad wagon.

I’m kind’ve wondering why DT has ignored my posts about my rl issues and how I even said that Pooky can confirm I’m having a rough time of it. @DT, did you just skip those posts because you called my lack of activity scum indicative despite my posts literally telling you that Pooky can verify I was telling the truth about that, so why the unwarrented shade on me for that?

This to me feels like someone who is more aware of the gamestate than they are letting on. Once again, I am not suggesting that Gloria isn't dealing with real stuff. I am suggesting she is getting info from a scum PT and has an agenda that she is pushing. There is no effort, for example, to look through my iso after accusing me to see what she has missed. To me, this is behavior from someone who is over-informed and pushing something on the thread, not a townie who is trying to get back into the game.

I may not be the greatest mafia player ever, but I know when I've caught scum. I let Pooky and mastina run the show D1 and we missed. Let me take my shot.

VOTE: Polar Bear Express

Then Bell in response votes Murdercat for some reason

fuck it.

VOTE: Murdercat

now if Bell is town, he has no reason to do this this early because he would be jumping to conclusions if he decided to come out with a read here, and what town would want to do here instead is watch how polar bears responds to said case, and then watch their interactions to figure out what is going on.

Then this happens:

?

Good morning villagers

good morning fellow human. Beep.

@Murdercat, they're not scum. I read your old argument, I read their posts. I've read their reactions to pressure. Scum emulate their own town games and their own response to pressure because it's like what they normally would do. You pushing at Noraa town is scummy asf.

and the whole interaction just reeks they're not trying to find scum but rather trying to act with some kind of agenda.

[Alisae]

ok im done reading

[Alisae]

I need reads on Harumi and 2ndchosen1 from you Alisae-chan <3 <3 <3

{Harumi Meuh} 1 scum max 61
I don't think this is scum attacking scum and I think either side could be scum here.
Meuh posting a readlist here is strange and I don't see a reason why Meuh needs to post a readlist right now?
Harumi attacking that readlist could be a scum motivated action.
Both of them being villagers is possible.

{Italiano, 2ndchosen} 1 scum max 226
the justification on the vote pings me from Italiano so if Italiano is scum, 2ndchosen could be town,
but also Italiano being town is quite possible from what I read earlier so it could also be possible that it's Italiano town and 2ndchosen scum.

{kazyan, meuh} 1 scum max 236
the whole thing pings me and reads like scum voting town, I don't like how kazyan is basically describing meuh's actions like everything about it is scummy and it pings me.


As for actual reads
{Krazy}
{Italiano, Marci}
{Cantrip}
{Meuh}
{Harumi, 2ndchosen, kazyan}

[Alisae]

ok Krazy what now

[Alisae]

prod range is 36 hours nexus was running 48 hours when it should be 36?
The only reason why I noticed it is because I really wanted to replace in

[Alisae]

alisae did you roll scum with harumi?

no, I'm not sure why I'd take the positioning I'm taking if they're scum.
They're my top pick for the flip today

[Alisae]

prod range is 36 hours nexus was running 48 hours when it should be 36?
The only reason why I noticed it is because I really wanted to replace in

?? why?

what do you mean why
in the newbie queue prod timers are 36.
It's how the queue works?

[Alisae]

because I'm magnetically attracted newbies that use anime avatars and look fun like meuh, harumi, and marcistar.
Oh and also you.

[Alisae]

no, I'm not sure why I'd take the positioning I'm taking if they're scum.
They're my top pick for the flip today

yeah that's why I thought you'd position them there since both wagons are pretty developed so it's unlikely you'd get traction

you seem a lot scummier than eth0s and my eth0s read was mostly based on thinking chosen flips scum

why am I your top town?

u seem like ur in ur townmeta and i have no real reason to actually put energy into sorting you right now when scum can just shoot you.
If ur still alive by d3 I'll figure out why.

[Alisae]

because I'm magnetically attracted newbies that use anime avatars and look fun like meuh, harumi, and marcistar.
Oh and also you.

I understand this since that is why I signed up to SE when I did (although that was actually specifically in response to rachelpie's double !! on her /in!!) but idk that I would have bothered the mod about prod timers to get there

I really wanted the slot what can I say

[Alisae]

also I'm not palying mafia atm

[Alisae]

yeah that's why I thought you'd position them there since both wagons are pretty developed so it's unlikely you'd get traction

Eh, I would probably evaluate the situation more and determine if a partner can be saved and then try to save them or try to commit to a bus on them just to appease you.
Right now I'm not really putting my vote down or trying to do anything right now while asking you what do we do next because cooperating with you is a lot easier than just doing my own thing right now considering I just replaced in, ur reads at this stage of the game are likely better than my reads, and it's probably just in general in my best interests?
If I was scum I would probably try to do something because I could probably get away with playing my regular scumgame against you in this pl due to the fact that u alone isn't enough to kill scum!me.

[Alisae]

also I'm not palying mafia atm

why do you say stuff like this?

I'm not in any games so I want to play mafia?
ur the one asking me why did I notice that the prod timers were different and why I wanted to play the game that badly.

[Alisae]

Krazy there's also the point that I don't have a reason to care about your slot because the other players are just more interesting to flip.

[Alisae]

like ur a red/green player and I play blue.
Its easier for me to just support and enable you until the conditions are right for me to act indepedently.

pedit: Yes hence why I want to work with you and enable you.
nothing chosen wrote interested me its just I think I'm able to find reasons to townread {meuh, italiano, cantip, you, marci} more than them.
Harumi I feel like is playing a very agenda-based game.
Meuh I agree seems more townie than {Harumi, chosen, Kazyan}

[Alisae]

your entrance really doesn't feel townie to me rn

I feel like I'm saying skitterish things but I feel like I need to say them anyway lol

<3 just my warm welcome to the game, downgrading my townread on your slot to nullscum

that's fine it's not exactly the most transparent entrance.

[Alisae]

E's, sorry; won't happen again

I don't care you can use whatever I'm used to it.

[Alisae]

Harumi I feel like is playing a very agenda-based game.

expand on this?

her positioning on especially meuh I feel like is more likely to come from scum than town.

[Alisae]

also I didn't really see any moments from her that made me think "ya this looks kinda town"

[Alisae]

who would be a harumi buddy?

{Harumi, Kazyan} could be a team?

[Alisae]

Not super digging what I feel is a condescending tone in your posts, but that's probably just your confidence shining through. Just how experienced are you, if I may ask? You get a townlean, though, for the solving approach.

I'm not sure where you see that but its probably not intentional?
Either way I consider myself to be pretty experienced and I have a lot of pride in my gameplay.

[Alisae]

Hmm, I had a hot take that Alisae and Krazy were buddies, but that whole "not playing mafia atm" confusion feels unlikely to be scum theatre.

this is good.

[Alisae]

not that many players care about the little things like that that wouldn't make sense to happen.
It's nice to see.

[Alisae]

I still think er entrance overall is not as townie as alisae's typical rep in tho

what's my typical rep in

[Alisae]

Krazy, what game is easier to read, the game with 100+ pages or the game with 11 pages?

[Alisae]

also I don't remember baker's game?
My rep ins compared to me being at the start of the game is fairly different and im a weird if I'm trying to catch-up?
If I showed you this game what would your response be: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=84369

[Alisae]

tbh i don't really know why I'm argueing with you about this on second thought?
Its probably just my subconscious desire to prove to you that I'm town and me wanting to address your concerns but u scumreading me right now is probably good for me?

[Alisae]

you're townier in illicit substances than here so far

but yeah I'm going to work anyway, try not to make any newbies give up on life because they're afraid of hyperposting

really?
I mean
yeah I can see how you would reach that conclusion ig my catchup here and there are really different

[Alisae]

You look for the people who want to be right and the people who want to have reads that look very ironclad and you try to determine which one is which. You have the knowledge that you are town so you use that to try to sort who is trying to sort you and if you can determine that in this gamestate, scum are going to probably keep u in the PoE, then you can use that to your advantage and try to figure out who is trying to keep u in the PoE.

The people who want to be right are town because scum cannot fake this. It's impossible for them to because they have all of the answers.
The people who want to have reads that are very ironclad are more likely to be scum. Scum value their appearance a lot, and having reads that they can justify is important to them.

[Alisae]

If I'm in "1 scum max" scenarios with both Kazyan and Harumi, 2 of your 3 strongest scumreads, then why am I in this position on your readslist? I'd assume it's behavior in other scenarios, which I'd love to hear about since I only care about myself

ur more townie than the player's below you.

[Alisae]

Is it higher = more town?

yep

[Alisae]

why is marci that low?

[Alisae]

289 reads really honest.
You think marci posts that as scum? I don't normally see scum post that stuff.

I agree with you I don't really think that this is scum talking about scum

[Alisae]

partly because if your reads are as quasi-oog-political as they seem I don't get why marci isn't top tier town for you, like I guess I get why you'd be like "oh yeah krazy can be top town so he can die tonight or whatever" that's fine but if you're just like "lol I'm not flipping marci d1 she's too cool" I don't get why she isn't also tier 1

marci on catch up seemed natural and I don't see myself voting them today anyways. Flipping them for them to end up flipping town would feel really shitty.

I'm not sure I get why cantrip is below italiano

29 felt townie and I feel like they've been hunting.
cantrip seemed town but its not as strong as I feel about Italiano

I feel like you should have kazyan as townier at least? idk I think kazy feels very townie, I get that you identified the one post pushing meuh since it very much was clear that they were like 'ima push meuh now' so the push feels kinda forced.

I was townreading him up till he posted 236 236 reaaaaaaally bothers me. Like, I can see 109 being posted by town, but 236 just irks me.

[Alisae]

Do you think I'm giving Italiano too much credit?

[Alisae]

236 comes from the perspective of someone who:
-has lost their only town game
-read the game where Prism snowed the entire game with like uber sweaty tryhardness

like kazy is actually just naked town and the way they want to play is that they want to be the one leading the wagon because at least that way they know at least the town is the one doing the things

I know, I *know* it reads identical to an open wolf trying to just do like their own wagon

but they're town

trust

*and no, I don't really dislike anything from Marci including 289 individually, it just bothers me a lot that it feels like she is like, doing things that feel like it's making it harder to solve chosen and it's hard for me to continue townreading her even if I still want and think she flips town if that makes sense

Like I actively townread Meuh, so I feel like I have a reason to oppose that wagon. She has chosen as like null but she's just decided he's a bad flip and that POV is just very ??? when the meuh case to me doesn't feel good at all

Okay, I can go chosen or Harumi. Up to you.

[Alisae]

I feel like you should have kazyan as townier at least? idk I think kazy feels very townie, I get that you identified the one post pushing meuh since it very much was clear that they were like 'ima push meuh now' so the push feels kinda forced.

I was townreading him up till he posted 236 236 reaaaaaaally bothers me. Like, I can see 109 being posted by town, but 236 just irks me.

If strong opinions backed by multi-post pattern recognition is scummy, then you're just coaching the town to never scumhunt. Do you think that's pro-town?

I mean what I don't like about 236 is I don't really like how you're spinning meuh's every single action as scummy. That's kind of the stuff I think scum would try to do.

[Alisae]

I want to see what chosen does at f-1 tbh

I don't know that he does anything that changes my read at all but I need to know if there is any amount of pressure that will make him start like, doing more readable stuff

I don't even scumread almost any of his recent posts but I remember my *feeling* on the page 6 stuff and I don't want to forget it when he's doing ~null, ok stuff.

yessir
VOTE: chosen

[Alisae]

actually no i wanna decide if the guy dies or not
UNVOTE:

[Alisae]

for all intensive purposes my vote is on chosen tho

[Alisae]

T_T

[Alisae]

I'm intrigued: unpack this for me?

I wrote an MD thread about how MtG colors could translate into mafia:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=85039

[Alisae]

Can you link me to either of these games? I found this (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82624) by searching, but didn't see Alisae in the player list...

im part of the wondertank hydra

[Alisae]

I know this was meant for Krazy, but I'm curious: it feels like you're trying to highlight that you play differently when you're "there" for the full game vs when you replace in. But the game you link in this quote is, for all practical purposes, essentially a rep-in. You didn't see that the game had started until 800+ posts in.

he was saying that my rep-ins are usually different from this one no?
I don't get the point here.
Do you think that this is scum!indicative?

[Alisae]

can you honestly say that harumi is more town than anyone else?

[Alisae]

for me I just feel like I can't honestly say that.

[Alisae]

I just... feel like their response to the wagon on them has been to basically shut down and then they got kinda white knighted by a couple slots and it's just really hard to evaluate how that all shakes out without a flip

who is wk'ing them?

[Alisae]

also i don't feel like chosen and harumi are aligned with each other.
honestly i kinda just wanna kill harumi like, a lot?

[Alisae]

Does anyone else find the constant use of emoticons to come off as insincere, or is it just me?

There's nothing here btw. This leads nowhere. You're not going to catch anyone because of this and this isn't ever going to be a reason why that player is scum in a game.

--

Alright, let me make a read list. This format may be a bit odd to you guys but ppl used it in other games i've played so...

TTT = Confirmed town
TT = Strong town read
T = Town read
/T = Town lean
/ = Neutral
/M = Mafia lean
M = Mafia read
MM = Strong mafia read
MMM = Confirmed mafia
Nothing = player has provided no input

Kazyan (/T)

Good vibes!

marcistar (/T)

Seems to be contributing to the discussion, messages aren't scummy.

Cantripmancer (/)

Not much input, and the input felt a bit odd.

Harumi Ayasato (/)

Talked a bit but didn't do anything to warrant a townlean

2ndchosen1 ()

Nothing yet

ItalianoVD (/T)

Contributing, messages look like a townie's

eth0s ()

Just voted and left.

Krazy (/T)

Actively contributing, making sure convo happens , but is experienced, so could easily be just be playing as they always do. Plus some of these messages look like they may be trying to pocket Marci? Not a huge deal, but still something I noticed.


After a certain point, inactivity becomes scummy, but this game just started.

Not terribly AI but I see little point in doing a readslist in page three of a mafia game. They don't really add anything this early.

attacks the readlist, not impossible for scum to post.

--

@harumi, No take on marci or meuh yet?

Can you expand on your kazy read a bit?

I've already expressed my opinion on meuh's tierlist and the emoticon usage but other than that they haven't really done anything to get my attention.

Kazy has only posted seventeen times, and quite a few of them are non-substantive, but the few that are seem to be rather focused on calling people out for things he perceives as scummy. This is probably just a playstyle thing, but it makes me wonder.

probably not aligned with kazy on re-read

--

I'm noticing that Meuh's last three posts have almost exclusively been justifying their actions. I'd like them to quickly reiterate who they believe their top candidate for elimination is today, as well as their reason.

this kind of shading probably seems more likely to come from scum than town I think?

--

I do agree with Kazyan that Meuh is inconsistent with their votes, and seems to be very manipulative with how apologetic they are when called out.
Your read on eth0s also implies that you think people voting for you is scummy, which I don't really agree with.

So not looking super good right now. Let's see about 2nd.

this just feels like attacking the slot for the sake of attacking the slot

--

2nd hasn't posted as much as Meuh, but it's hard for me to point out anything specifically wrong with them. I'm just getting a bad feeling regarding them, like they're not being sincere.
So I'm going to VOTE: Meuh for now, but 2nd is going on my PoE.

how are they not being sincere? I don't feel like this was ever actually explained but i could be missing something

[Alisae]

the way harumi positioned herself on chosen/meuh was almost scummy enough for me to think that was just wolfing

what post?
am i missing something here?

[Alisae]

Cantrip actually seems like Harumi's most likely partner just on the basis that assuming no distancing or theater is going on
marci is going quite hard on them
the way they post about kazy makes kazy look townie
italiano went quite hard on harumi early
if they did position themselves to be ok with chosen or meuh, those are more likely town and harumi is likely just scum here
I'm not going to argue that krazy is scum in this game of mafia

[Alisae]

and Cantrip seems townie :/

[Alisae]

i think i should just sleep and hopefully there'll be more posts tomorrow

[Alisae]

the way harumi positioned herself on chosen/meuh was almost scummy enough for me to think that was just wolfing

what post?
am i missing something here?

305 the one you'd just quoted, I didn't like how it was so non-committal to both leading wagons

oooooooooh im reading the post wrong

[Alisae]

Why wouldn't Harumi/2nd be scum/scum?

well given that krazy said harumi was positioning themself to vote chosen I thought i wasn't svs but apparently I'm wrong and they're not at all interested in that or I'm just giving it too much credit?

[Alisae]

I randed 3rd party?

[Alisae]

when was this

[Alisae]

oh i remember now

[Alisae]

that game is bleached from my memory but for the most part ya townsiding d1 makes more sense I think.
Also Krazy was town and my reads were decently strong I think so no reason not to?

[Alisae]

there was that micro fairly recently

[Alisae]

another one

[Alisae]

i was playing on mikan

[Alisae]

were you not on harley?
it was the game hosted by pooky

[Alisae]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=85282

[Alisae]

THAT WAS NANCY

[Alisae]

I THOUGHT THAT WAS YOU

[Alisae]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

[Alisae]

I'm not treating this like a newbie game btw.
If I did it would probably fuck up my reads.

[Alisae]

btw did you know that my newbie game winrate is impressively low?
I'm extremely unlucky when it comes to newbie games

[Alisae]

but yes to me this is just another game of mafia.
ARE YOU SAYING I'M BEING A BAD INFLUENCE ON THE NEWBIES?

[Alisae]

sadge

[Alisae]

krazy if i was actually scum you kill me like you killed dunn in AvT

[Alisae]

if anything honestly I bring the fight to you

[Alisae]

Maybe not today.
Like today if I was scum and chosen is town I go chosen and then I prep to fight you.
there's no way for you to know that tho you wouldn't know it until you felt it.

[Alisae]

whos e and eir am i being dumb LOL

<---

[Alisae]

oh the wagon on meuh is literally just harumi and kazy

okay nevermind

why is cantrip still on italiano? Ohhh because he keeps planning to wall and then hasn't gotten to it.

I guess I should just stop posting or doing anything until cantrip gets to the point where he can actually flesh out his italiano read.

*no timer, but I will not post again until Cantripmancer does the post he wants to do on Italiano and either asks people to vote with him or changes votes* **

** unless I need to prodge

Marci's implied she wanted to hop on the wagon on me, although has shifted more towards Harumi. Alisae scumreads me too, although not incredibly.
(these might be outdated/a bit inaccurate, so feel free to correct me, Marci or Alisae!)

My wagon has decreased a bit as time went on though, yeah, it's not one of the

BIG TWO WAGONS

anymore, like it was a few pages ago.

Smh don't stop posting

i don't have u as a scumread

[Alisae]

I'm not moving from Meuh, but I was thinking last night that Alisae/Meuh makes a lot of sense as a solve, despite my townlean on em earlier. The "do I vote for Harumi or 2nd?" exchange was bugging me.

Today, I don't like how much of the hyperposting is just buddying the shit out of Krazy while simultaneously killing other conversations. Poffering off the responsibility of eir vote choice between Harumi and 2ndchosen1 seems fishier and fishier the more I think about it.

krazy how r u townreading this?

[Alisae]

I mean
It's not like I don't completely understand how you reach that conclusion.
I think you coming to that conclusion is fine but didn't you ask so yourself that you had difficulty reading it and asked if the higher the person is the less town they are? I verified this.

I just said I think ur more town than all of the players below u, tho I think it might be accurate to put you on teh same line as cantrip now I think

[Alisae]

higher the person the more town they are*

[Alisae]

ah yes so you got the same rhetoric one game therefore it'll always come from scum yes love it

[Alisae]

i think im going to end up going back and forth with u being town and scum cuz u do scummy things but u also have townie points and i scumread scummy overconfident town easily

[Alisae]

it's results based analysis

[Alisae]

like u can't truthfully say that I'm scum because of that thing that happened to him in that one guy
but also he believes it which is a townie trait so like ???

[Alisae]

it's not behavoir that only comes from scum. It can come from town too

[Alisae]

ITS BAD LOGIC MAN THE FUCK YOU WANT ME TO DO

[Alisae]

Alisae could get to 3 votes

[Alisae]

Krazy, Meuh, Kazyan

Could be interesting to see what that wagon becomes, there's at least 2 town interested in me so if you can make it happen its possible scum could bite

[Alisae]

I can say for sure Krazy being interested in me isn't scum motivated
Kazyan is possible that he's a town who really believes I'm scum all of a sudden even tho I think him flipping from me being scum to suddenly being town then being scum is weird?
and also I like Meuh they seem more townie then Kazyan, chosen, and Harumi and I think at least 1 of those players has to be scum.

[Alisae]

Wouldn't like it.

why?

[Alisae]

It's going to be an enormous cognitive effort to get even slightly better at this game if using past experience to inform my current decisions is a fallacy. If that's the case, I shouldn't bother playing Newbie games after this, because playing Newbie games wouldn't help. There's god-tier play in the Newbie queue now anyway.

It's part of the learning process.
You should try to miselim me I think it would produce good information it's just that you need to make sure krazy lives if possible he'll know for sure what to do with that information I think?

[Alisae]

also me flipping town proves that it's bad logic no?
It's a learning process it takes years.

[Alisae]

we don't know yet if town is losing this game or not.
If chosen and harumi are both town then things are looking pretty bad tho.
Her thinking differently than the townbloc isn't a town indicative trait. You have to look into why she's doing that. 451 gives nothing to help us as to how she got into those conclusions.

Actually its really strange because you look at 451 and she has 4 players at null how is this possible at this point in the game? You should be able to find up with plenty of reasons to townread players in this game.

[Alisae]

I can say for sure Krazy being interested in me isn't scum motivated
Kazyan is possible that he's a town who really believes I'm scum all of a sudden even tho I think him flipping from me being scum to suddenly being town then being scum is weird?
and also I like Meuh they seem more townie then Kazyan, chosen, and Harumi and I think at least 1 of those players has to be scum.

Why does one of us need to be scum?

ur not part of the "kazyan chosen and harumi" and because the rest of the player's just seemed more town?
I would be very surprised if there wasn't at least 1 scum in there. Even if we included you, if "kazyan, you, chosen, and harumi" were all town I would be very surprised.

[Alisae]

You got your options of
Me
Meuh
chosen
Harumi

Kazyan seems like the only one who looks like he could be exploiting the gamestate and Krazy definitely seems town.

If all of {Kazyan, Me, Meuh, Chosen, Harumi} are town, I can't point to anyone who is exploiting the gamestate.
Italiano is trying to hold Kazyan for a post that I also thought was weird
Marcistar is just doing her own thing and is pushing Harumi.
Also I don't really know what Cantrip is doing in this gamestate but he seems to be acting independantly and is probably town. Like he's trying to sort through me and krazy and figure out whats going on. It could be townie I think?

So you have {Krazy, Italiano, Marci, and Cantirp} acting independantly
you have {Kazyan} who seems like he's exploiting the gamestate but also can be a villager because he seems like he wants to be right
and the you have {Me, Meuh, Chosen, Harumi} which is the pool of elims for today.

Hence why, if {Kazyan, Meuh, Chosen, and Harumi} all flipped town, I would be very surprised.

[Alisae]

{Kazyan, Meuh, Chosen, and Harumi} all flipping town means I have no idea what is going in this game.

[Alisae]

for Krazy to be scum, he has to overnight start liking to play scum, completely dodge me who has a really good read accuracy on him, and play extremely well.
So I would be happy to give him the W if he's scum because this is significant improvement for him if he is.

[Alisae]

btw its very unrealistic to think Krazy could potentially fool me in this game.
I replaced in and there's no way he could have predicted that I would replace in within the first 10 pages.
His gameplay up until he replaced in is good, his read on me and his interactions with me seem good so if he's scum considered me fooled

[Alisae]

{Kazyan, Meuh, Chosen, and Harumi} all flipping town means I have no idea what is going in this game.

Well I know one of them are town so you never know

I mean yes there has to be ATLEAST 3 town in those group of players, that's just math.

[Alisae]

wait no not 3, 2. I can't count and I'm saying "that's just math" LOL.
But yes I townread you in those group of players

[Alisae]

chosen who do you think is town and who do you think is scum and why?

pedit: idunno. It's a site trick that Kison posted about in MD.

[Alisae]

There's another cool trick as well.
If you go to the bottom of quick reply and see "Display posts by user" it should say all users but you can click on that to select a player, then click the + button to select another player like this (it only goes up to 3 accounts)

[Alisae]

[Alisae]

because I want to be the person to decide if you die or not since I'm conflicted about things.
I think some of your posts could be things that a villager could write but I'm honestly not sure, so I want to give a chance for you to be more transparent and I also want to see the other player's response to your response.

[Alisae]

Why wouldn't Harumi/2nd be scum/scum?

well given that krazy said harumi was positioning themself to vote chosen I thought i wasn't svs but apparently I'm wrong and they're not at all interested in that or I'm just giving it too much credit?

[Alisae]

okay then its possible I'm giving them too much credit

[Alisae]

I'd Townread you for the info alone.

uuuuuuuh
I'd probably give advice out as well if I was scum tbh.
believe it or not i would actually like to see newbies stick around because most of the time they don't its really sadge

[Alisae]

Marci, what do you think about 2ndchosen

[Alisae]

Italiano what reads do you have as well?

[Alisae]

your reads haven't changed within 300+ posts?

[Alisae]

Krazy does chosen's latest posts help you?

[Alisae]

If self-voting is good for you me and Krazy will tell you to self-vote.
The only reason why I could think of a reason for you to self-vote is if we absolutely need to do everything in our power to secure an elim, in which case, self-voting is good, because elimin is better than not eliming

[Alisae]

at least when it comes to THIS game.
There are other reasons but that's the only reason I think would apply for this D1.
Otherwise just don't self-vote, you have no reason to and the information that not self-voting provides is way more than the information that self-voting provides. I also desperately need this information.

[Alisae]

ya
lets go chosen
VOTE: chosen

[Alisae]

I don't like Alisae's hyperposting, because it's my opinion that hyperposting is antitown because town should want everyone's viewpoints.

I can do both

[Alisae]

i don't think I'd get that salty over a D1 elm to threaten quitting the site, after all I can still win, it's just suboptimal. but otherwise, that hurts.....but is a lil true.

miseliming isn't suboptimal or bad.
If have the room to make mistakes then its okay for you to make mistakes and also miselims can also help re-align reads. It really doesn't matter when you kill both scum as long as you kill them at some point.

[Alisae]

Like miselims are okay if you use the information in some way or form to help you.
They're not okay if you just ignore the flip and continue what you were doing.

[Alisae]

daytalk is the standard but I don't think it would be uncommon for a game every now and then to not have daytalk

[Alisae]

Oh, and I was just handed a work project that is going to keep me busier than usual, so I may not post much between now and tomorrow evening. I'll try to keep up with reading, though.

UNVOTE:
put a vote down on chosen then me and krazy get held accountable if we end the day preemptively.

[Alisae]

we won't tho because we're town.

[Alisae]

I actually feel like chosen's positioning could easily come from scum which is why I want to go chosen today

[Alisae]

have you read 562?
it just reads scum positioning to me.
Also I think Kazyan and chosen know each other? I honestly kind of want to trust Kazyan > chosen way more than I want to trust chosen > kazyan

[Alisae]

Wait, okay, I figured out what you're trying to figure out. Can you defer to my judgment on 2ndchosen1 because I know him? The answer is no, because we've played some voice chat sessions of Among Us, and I have a hard time sorting him as crewmate or impostor in that game regardless of alignment.

hmm okay, I still think ur probably more townie than chosen anyways, this seems pretty honest tho I'm not sure if thats something that would be alignment indicative here.

[Alisae]

Yeah I think I want chosen to claim, I think I want to go that over Harumi today but I'll compromise on her if I have to.

[Alisae]

don't like that I don't think harumi actually expects this vote to do anything, feels empty

do you think that vote actually comes from scum though?

[Alisae]

Because the reason why I decided to go chosen > harumi today isn't just because of chosen's reads, that's kind of half of it.
I don't know why Harumi would place that vote on marci as scum? the only thing I can think of is that they don't want to bus for some reason but bussing here I think wouldn't be terrible for them?
If chosen is town and Harumi is scum the only reason I can think of her moving to marci is for towncred because they know that their vote isn't required to kill chosen. Maybe they have this foresight but I'm not sure.

If Harumi is scum with chosen, then I don't think bussing is that bad for Harumi and can actually make her look kind of good? I don't think if the team is {Harumi, Chosen}, Harumi can justify not bussing unless their goal was to try to get a no elim, which the village should be taking as much steps as possible to secure an elim, so that seems unrealistic. I don't think Harumi can get any other reasonable cw going.

I just feel like it makes more sense to put Harumi as town for the marci vote? I can't figure out why scum place that vote on Marci at that time.

[Alisae]

Its actually really weird that you started to dislike Harumi's later posts but I started to like Harumi's later posts.
I can't identify what that player is doing if they're scum because their latest play seems pretty agendaless?

Either way I feel like chosen is the better flip here.

[Alisae]

Krazy if you really want to go Harumi instead and pull my leg I'll cooperate.
I'd rather cooperate with you and try to work with you as much as possible over try to pick a fight with you.

[Alisae]

Also our interests are mostly the same so its fine.

[Alisae]

Krazy I can't wait for you to get shot and then have to deal with everyone pointing at me and saying "ya, this player kills Krazy"

[Alisae]

if any protectives exist please just protect Krazy, don't do anything fancy.
It's just so much better if scum are not allowed to kill Krazy and they're forced to go somewhere else.

[Alisae]

VOTE: Chosen

L-1 please claim we have 27 hours before day ends we're not fucking around here

[Alisae]

Chosen you will not survive this day phase w/o claiming so just do it.
The sooner the better, we're on the clock.

[Alisae]

This probably flips town but refusal to claim is just so bad :/

[Alisae]

Guys if ur town, plz claim when u get to l1 or theres intent. Doesn’t matter what alignment you are, just claim. This shouldn’t need to be said but apparently I have to say it.

[Alisae]

We might end up with a longer twilight so this is good. Krazy we should try to make use of this as much as possible.

[Alisae]

WHY MAN

[Alisae]

Why are you trying to be cute when ur at l1 and intent is declared man I don’t get it. Just claim ur role flatout.

[Alisae]

Like its so bad not to and maybe u wouldn’t have died. U might not think so but there’s a chance.

[Alisae]

Ya village is in a really good position and Krazy lives another day which is Pog

[Alisae]

We could maybe justify massclaiming

[Alisae]

no FN result here

[Alisae]

I think the only slot that works noticeably worse post hammer than pre hammer is Cantripmancer, so we can do a quick sanity check on my townlean there. Ali how are you on Trip?

I think I am going to keep my hand to myself for a bit.

[Alisae]

Italiano, you want to massclaim when you have a massive lead over wolves because massclaiming is really great at accelerating leads.
This is especially holds true in more larger games.
I think our lead is strong enough that it should be fine to accelerate it w/ massclaim, but to be safe I asked Krazy if he thought it was fine because he's probably more familiar with newbie games than I am

[Alisae]

I think this kill could've been one made by Marci, since the kill does throw shade on me in the form of Kazyan pushing me yesterday, and since I had already mentioned that 2nd/Marci was a likely duo, putting a dent in my credibility could be a good idea. No clue why Kazyan would be specifically seen as PR, though

generally speaking the best night kill analysis can only be done when you let people play their hands and be proactive.

[Alisae]

Krazy you can do whatever it is that you want to do

[Alisae]

I like to play my games very reactively so I need proactive players like you to continue to do proactive things.

[Alisae]

actually i think this game is over

[Alisae]

I'm super stoned so like, I'm not going to play my hand for no reason.
But I'ma just say it right now I think this game is over.
I'm nowhere near ready to play my hand anyways so I don't think I'm going wait, I just thought of something and got excited and couldn't contain it shit mybad kekw

[Alisae]

VOTE: cantrip

[Alisae]

Everyone is town but Cantrip

[Alisae]

Like the game is just over.
Italiano has seem pretty consistently town. It could be possible that he bussed but I really don't think so and I don't think I want to entertain that today.
Meuh I felt like has just been townie
Marci seems really honest and just doesn't seem like scum
Harumi isn't acting with an endgame in mind and is just trying to play her game. Her read on me is probably something she believes.

Cantrip played this day phase like scum with his positioning and but if you read 562 it's pretty easy to figure out that the guy is just scum.
- Scumreads Harumi and Marci, it seems really likely that these are just villagers.
- Putting Meuh as null seems like something scum would do.
- goes back and forth between krazy, likely cuz krazy is a villager
- italiano and cantrip descriptions are pretty different. For cantrip he tries to make him look good whereas Italiano it just doesn't happen? It's also the only townlean he really gave detail on which is sus.

Like idunno Cantrip's positioning has been just what I think scum has been doing.
- Wants to keep Harumi and Marci in the PoE
- Scum are probably going to try to make Marci look like partners with Chosen, it just makes sense for scum to want to do this.
- Tries to keep Harumi in the PoE pool.

Marci today seems really honest and Harumi feels like they're just beating their own drum.

Games over.

[Alisae]

I just don't think its Harumi because Harumi play feels really agendaless and I think its a lot more town beating their own drum doing their own thing over scum who just feels like the game is over because its been consistent across the whole game.

[Alisae]

Like I just think out of the 3 Cantrip is seems more likely to be the scum just based on what I expect scum to do during this day phase.

[Alisae]

I don't disagree with that

[Alisae]

I don't enjoy you krazy

[Alisae]

ah shit you caught me
busted

[Alisae]

I'm a fucking idiot

[Alisae]

/me yawns

[Alisae]

no i actually got 2nd thoughts on my read the other day

[Alisae]

I always get 2nd thoughts tho.
I don't think its too important who dies between cantrip and harumi

[Alisae]

i uuuuuuuh
ya uuuuh
i don't awnna move my vote

[Alisae]

cuz krazy wants harumi and im not sure after harumi shaded krazy im not sure why that happens if harumi is scum

[Alisae]

Cantrip would make a lot of sense yes

[Alisae]

her play this phase seems more townie than scummy i think

[Alisae]

cantrip just seems like scum here :/

[Alisae]

think harumi and marci are better

[Alisae]

also do you think cantrip kills kazy?

Well you see, because I asked for protectives to be on you otherwise they're trolling, scum decided that they couldn't kill you and because of that, decided to kill kazy

[Alisae]

it's really 5 head i know

[Alisae]

Krazy
I do what you want
What do you want

[Alisae]

Like I think its cantrip but if you have something compelling for anyone else, I'll listen to you and help you out. Your interests are my interests so I don't really mind.

[Alisae]

you could make the argument that its more correct to flip harumi and marci before flipping cantrip but that's more risky I think

[Alisae]

I mean Krazy the game feels oddly empty of content because we're at the stage of the game where we're just going through the motions

[Alisae]

i think cantrip's reasons for suspecting marci/harumi are more ironclad than what marci and harumi have presented and to me, more ironclad = more likely coming from scum

[Alisae]

Question: Is mafia daychat the standard on this site? Or more common than not?

do you think he was trying to fake a dumbtell here?

I don't think the question is at all a dumbtell, I think they're just asking if the games on site all mostly run with daytalk.

[Alisae]

If you're asking me why its being asked I wouldn't be able to tell you

[Alisae]

ya ur a cop so u should just get shot right?

[Alisae]

i think i only voted scum this game thats really pog

[Alisae]

ya i only voted scum feelsgoodman

[Alisae]

If any of the newbies want advice, me and krazy got ywall.
I may or may not be roping Krazy into this w/o his consent but I'm sure he doesn't mind!

[Alisae]

Cantrip for what its worth, I think you played really well Day 1. The way you looked like you were sorting me and Krazy's interactions was really well done.
Mid to Late when it comes to playing scum its good to think about how to reach your desired endgame and how you actually plan to win the game. You identified the ml that you needed to get there and this is good. HOWEVER what most scum players aren't good at (myself included because this is hard, like really hard and I don't think most players on site are this good at scum) is not being obvious about trying to get there, because its during the mid to late game that most scum players really lazy which results in them being obvious with their agenda and them openwolfing. All I had to do to figure you out is just figure out how a player would win this game if they were scum, how that player gets to that wincon, and if they're playing towards that. Again, don't stress over this, because this is really hard. I'm like, top 10-20 scum players on site probably? This is something that even I have issues with. It's REALLY hard.

[Alisae]

I mean, there really has to be more to an experienced analysis than just saying "red is sus".

Yeah, I'm wondering how to say this in a nice way, but, like. I don't think Ali's posts set a good example for the newbs.

man I'm convinced

her play this phase seems more townie than scummy i think
cantrip just seems like scum here :/

--

Like the game is just over.
Italiano has seem pretty consistently town. It could be possible that he bussed but I really don't think so and I don't think I want to entertain that today.
Meuh I felt like has just been townie
Marci seems really honest and just doesn't seem like scum
Harumi isn't acting with an endgame in mind and is just trying to play her game. Her read on me is probably something she believes.

Cantrip played this day phase like scum with his positioning and but if you read 562 it's pretty easy to figure out that the guy is just scum.
- Scumreads Harumi and Marci, it seems really likely that these are just villagers.
- Putting Meuh as null seems like something scum would do.
- goes back and forth between krazy, likely cuz krazy is a villager
- italiano and cantrip descriptions are pretty different. For cantrip he tries to make him look good whereas Italiano it just doesn't happen? It's also the only townlean he really gave detail on which is sus.

Like idunno Cantrip's positioning has been just what I think scum has been doing.
- Wants to keep Harumi and Marci in the PoE
- Scum are probably going to try to make Marci look like partners with Chosen, it just makes sense for scum to want to do this.
- Tries to keep Harumi in the PoE pool.

Marci today seems really honest and Harumi feels like they're just beating their own drum.

Games over.

tbh I'll be honest here, I rely on instinct a lot. When you rely on instinct, its really hard to actually explain reads. This is where I mostly played my entire hand on day 2 and I didn't feel like anything else was really necessary which is why you had posts like "I think marci is more townie than scum" and "cantrip just feels like scum :/" I already explained everything I thought was going on in the game prior, I'm just trying to communicate to Krazy where I stand and what I want and how I see the game. I don't need to bring out high level analysis to help organize an elim if me and krazy just need to have a simple back and forth. I'm playing to an audience here. If Krazy wasn't around during the day phase, I think I would try to be a bit more transparent about my thought processes since I know that the audience I'm playing to needs to see that transparency. Krazy doesn't need to see this as much.

Sometimes I can get away with saying "this player is really townie" and leave it at that because there's nothing else that actually needs to be said and any kind of analysis on how to actually reach the conclusion is actually irrelevant. Now you could make the argument that its relevant to newbies because it helps them learn.

So If there's anything that does require an explanation when it comes to anything that I did, I'll happily provide one

as well as elaborate on any conclusions I reached in this post that seem vague and don't lack analysis.
Italiano - has been consistently scumhunting throughout the whole game and is therefore pretty consistently town.
Meuh - I don't think I recall her play being super agenda based during D1 and this is going to trace back to what I said about instinct. Her play instinctively just felt town to me from me understanding the thought processes behind the conclusions she reached as well as actions that she took that I feel like don't come from someone who is trying to work towards an agenda. Also I think she seemed pretty honest at some points.
Marci - Honestly is always a town trait and another thing that stands out her with Marci wasn't really to any kind of scum agenda. To an extent you can say this is instinct as well tbh.

"Cantirp played this day phase like scum with his positioning" Scum!Cantrip makes sense if you plug in Marci and Harumi as town. Sometimes its just as easy as plugging in answers into the machine that is your brain and just seeing what comes out. If you assume that Marci and Harumi must be town, then scum!Cantrip is the only thing that makes sense given his play during day 2. It's like checking your answers in Math. This also has a lot to deal with what I wrote in 923.
"Scumreads Harumi and Marci, it seems really likely that these are just villagers." Also Chosen wants these two in the PoE because he wants to flip them. When he wrote 562, he wasn't able to tell for sure if he was the flip during that day or not.
"Putting Meuh as null seems like something scum would do." Leaving this player as null is good because it gives scum!Chosen the option to figure out how they want to position that player later in the game given at the time they were a potential wagon option.
"goes back and forth between krazy, likely cuz krazy is a villager" This kind of behavior when it comes to reads usually comes from scum talking about town because scum don't usually flip their read like this when it comes to talking about their partner.

But let's instead poke at 2 posts on page 36 out of context, go "wow, this player is AFWUL at being a good example for newbies," and then proceed to trigger me within the process which causes me to want to defend myself by saying that those 2 posts on page 36 out of context don't really matter as much when I already played my hand and dumped everything that I was thinking about the game in 764. If you still feel unsatisfied because I relied on my gut/instincts way too much and this post didn't help then sadge I tried ;~;

[Alisae]

I hope I don't sound like an asshole too much in that.
The last part could be kinda dickish and to an extent ya thats kinda just my sarcasm rubbing off.

idunno ig when it comes to actually playing the game i could have done a better job but i just know that this style of play that I've adopted recently has been working really well for me and its kinda hard to teach :/ At least, I wouldn't even know how to even begin teaching it. 923 I think is a start.
Like I definitely was not treating this like a newbie game and just trying to play the game how I would normally play it.

I tried really hard when it comes to explaining the game and giving as much info as possible so idunno I'd probably get really sad to see that I failed in helping newbies because I wrote posts like "this player just seems more townie than scummy" and "this player just feels like scum"

[Alisae]

idunno maybe I'm just in the wrong for defending myself ig ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Alisae]

ya ig im in the wrong instinct is really hard to teach my bad ig

[Alisae]

I just noticed that the above 2 posts could probably be interpreted as being extremely passive aggressive and manipulative.
Sorry, I have a really bad time when it comes to keeping both of those in check as well as trying to refrain myself from posting

[Alisae]

finding town is actually easier than finding scum.
I've had a lot of really good reads just by being able to say "ya all of these people are just more town than this player"