Newbie 2054 - GAME OVER

[Kazyan]

VOTE: Cantripmancer, for wearing an insufficiently-silly hat.

[Kazyan]

"Surrounded by anime girls" really sets the tone for the game of [checks notes] Mafia. This will be fun.

[Kazyan]

We're going to beat the Mafia with the power of friendship, aren't we. ._______.

All in favor of town PR claims being presented as transformation sequences when the time comes to do that?

I also townread both of kazyan's posts so far.

why_though.jpg

[Kazyan]

All in favor of town PR claims being presented as transformation sequences when the time comes to do that?

I have no idea what you're saying here. Explain, please?

It was an un-serious suggestion, based on the tone set in post 18 and the various anime avatars, that a townie revealing their power role would be like the overwrought transformation animations you see in magical girl shows (e.g. Sailor Moon).

I'm off to a great start on being understandable.

[Kazyan]

'They' is preferred, but 'he' is fine. Don't worry about it.

Yeah, Mafia is a game where every argument gives enough clues and content for someone to start another argument. The random voting stage gets that first one going.

VOTE: ItalianoVD. Hat is too silly.

[Kazyan]

Cringe level is NAI; you heard it here, folks.

[Kazyan]

It's easy to vibe with a readslist when there are no scumlean positions yet. Unless Krazy's thought on Cantrip counts? Nah.

I don't have strong reads at the moment--scum tend to be good at blending in on Day 1, from what I've heard. My intuition is also still kinda jumbling Krazy, Meuh, and marci together, but that will change as the day progresses.

ItalianoVD's posts vaguely remind me of NPOM in Mini Normal 2187, who was scum in that game, but that might be a matter of communication style. I dunno if I'd call it a scumlean, but I don't feel like random-voting another person unless 2ndchosen1 shows up wearing an even worse hat.

[Kazyan]

@Kazyan: Can you explain what hat means/is.

A joke based on how random votes are often accompanied by silly reasons. This is a forum, so no one is wearing a hat, because no one has a physical presence.

[Kazyan]

Meuh's reads would be fine, but in addition to being so early, there are no scumreads. It seems more performative than towny. I'll keep an eye on that.

[Kazyan]

Meuh's reads would be fine, but in addition to being so early, there are no scumreads. It seems more performative than towny. I'll keep an eye on that.

I think sorting nulls from townleans is fine for page 3 tbh

Fair, but I'm still keeping an eye on it.

Unrelatedly, ItalianoVD no longer reminds me of NPOM.

[Kazyan]

The emoticon debate feels very TvT.

[Kazyan]

It looks like we're sliding towards more serious voting now. In that case, UNVOTE: .

[Kazyan]

@kazy -- why not vote your poe?

Huh? I don't have enough reads to use PoE yet. Honestly, I'm kinda waiting for one of those big arguments that pull lots of people in.

VOTE: Cantripmancer. This is a policy vote. C'mon, do something.

[Kazyan]

Wait, dangit, I got you mixed up with a different person. Ack.

UNVOTE: Cantripmancer

VOTE: eth0s

C'mon, do something.

[Kazyan]

Kazy has only posted seventeen times, and quite a few of them are non-substantive, but the few that are seem to be rather focused on calling people out for things he perceives as scummy. This is probably just a playstyle thing, but it makes me wonder.

You know what, yeah, this is a good take. I have been doing a lot of jabbering and pecking. I'm thinking of casing Krazy, since they've said enough to possibly develop a stronger read on them. Does that sound good to you?

@Kazyan: Supposing the power of friendship isn't enough? How will you find the scum?

I have some thoughts on that, but I'll keep them close to my chest so that I don't publically announce to scum exactly how to bamboozle me.

[Kazyan]

Uh...explain, please? How did you mix me up with eth0s?

I sorted people in my head into "active" and inactive", and was going to vote you, but then I remember "hey, wait, Cantrip had a few posts, right?", and I checked both you and eth0s to confirm I had that right. But then I forgot to change my text in the vote after I double-checked eth0s, because I was thinking along the lines of "wait, no, it's the other guy".

The obvious solution should have been to vote 2ndchosen1 instead of confusing myself, now that I think about it.

[Kazyan]

Summary of Krazy's 26 posts, up to and including #106:

---

9: Offering avatar to Harumi
15: Explaining exaggerations. Townreading me for ???tonal reasons.
16: Avatars.
20: Explaining exaggerations to Cantrip.
24: Explains tonereads to me; wanting to be suspicious of people
27: Townleans everyone except the reluctant posters; votes 2ndchosen1
30: Explains marci townlean; marci's compliment didn't seem to be a pocket attempt
34: Really likes marci
39: Reads are repeated and unchanged except for a Cantrip scumlean
41: Emoji Discussion #1 with IVD
42&43: Townreading Meuh based on tone
47: No longer townleaning IVD because he's "defensinve" about asking about the emoji thing
51: 'Pocketing is my playstyle' kind of claim. Likes meuh.
66: Wants to hold off on posting. Talking about 'Group of 3' scumtell. Confused about Harumi.
69: Emoji Discussion #2: Electric Boogaloo with IVD
74: Suggesting for Mueh to vote seriously
82: Annoyed about 2nd/eth0s. Still confused about Harumi
84: Asking me to vote by PoE; talking about easing up on postcount, talking about associatives.
85: Side discussion
88: Asking Harumi for Marci or Meuh reads and to expand on Kazyan read.
92: Emoji Discussion #3: Revenge of the Sith with IVD
94: Asking about Cantrip's scumread on marci
98: Claims that Meuh and Harumi are not scumbuddies
103: Anti-associative between Kazyan and Cantripmancer; counterarguing about Emoji Discussion #4: IVD and the Goblet of Fire.
106: Side discussion

---

The question is whether any of this makes sense if Krazy is scum. Possible teams:

Krazy/Harumi: I could imagine Krazy trying to coach Haruhi along as a scum partner, given the cajoling about reads.
Krazy/Cantrip: Doesn't seem likely? The vibe is just off for me on that.
Krazy/marci: This would be bold for this much buddying, but I wouldn't rule it out.
Krazy/Meuh: I could believe this. Krazy is curiously preoccupied with Mueh.
Krazy/IVD: I have been burned before, but this doesn't look like a distancing attempt. If Krazy is scum, this seems a lot more like "abort this discussion, because I'm trying to draw suspicion on IVD and it's not working". This would also sort of be a super-soft chainsaw defense of Harumi, maybe?
Krazy/eth0s: Who knows.
Krazy/2ndchosen1: Who knows.

My conclusion based on the above pairings:

If

Krazy is scum, the likely partner is Harumi. Catrip and IVD are unlikely to be scum!Krazy's partner. This is

not

a suggestion that Krazy is scum,

because I still have Krazy as a null overall, which sucks. Most of Krazy's history is hard for me to read with a slight lean towards town, except for post 88. That post just rubs me the wrong way for some reason, because it's asking for two specific reads. It seems odd for town to be preoccupied over just those two instead of the town overall, but, like. I don't know.

[Kazyan]

Ah, completing the set of active players would make sense, yeah. Such is the limitation of looking at ISOs; you don't see the activity levels around each post.

[Kazyan]

Regarding me and 2ndchosen1: Hayker told us to join the Mini Normal, and we reconvened after the game off-site. We both wanted to join another game eventually, so we entered the newbie queue at different times, and got bunched into the same game.

Italiano/Harumi looked TvT to me at first, too, but now I'm not sure.

[Kazyan]

The emoticon debate feels very TvT.

Can you be more specific on which people you thought were town in the emoticon debate (italiano and harumi or?)

I saw the conversation as Italiano vs. Krazy, and that looked TvT, just as a gut impression. That conversation is +town for Krazy, but post 88 was -town, and thus still a null.

Regarding marci's pressure vote, here are my reads:

Townlean

:
IVD
Cantrip
marci

Null

:
Krazy
2ndchosen1
eth0s

Scumlean

:
Meuh
Harumi

[Kazyan]

Actually, you know what, I'm going to take back that Harumi scumlean and call it a townlean instead. Being a skeptic does not make you scummy.

[Kazyan]

I would call the emoticon debate certainly unhelpful, one thing that came up repeatedly in our last game was the discussing playstyle isn't really the most helpful thing for sorting scum.
The IIOA is certainly something but I would say NAI right now as it wasn't really distracting.
@Kazyan were the NPOM vibes from 29?

More of posts 33 and 40, actually, due to their terseness.

@Kazy, the one read of yours I don't really get is Cantrip, can you explain that one more?

The first half of 101 looks like a real attempt at sorting town. His "explain pls" response to my post is also kind of good in my eyes--it was a hard query. Town are more likely to be bold about poking people, from my very limited experiences--in Mini Normal 2187, both of the scum had a very soft way of commenting on odd things I did as town, at least until the ELo at the end.

[Kazyan]

@Kazyan

If you were scum in this game and felt at a certain point (in this case, around post 77) that votes were and should be used more seriously, where would you place your vote and why? Would you unvote without voting for another player at the same time, or would you have considered that someone might think that looks bad?

I've never played scum in forum Mafia, so I can't tell you for sure. I think I would have just kept my mouth shut about that and instead asked my hypothetical scumbuddy how to proceed, now that votes matter. If they cajoled me to change my vote, I would have moved my vote to Harumi to try to stoke the suspicions about her. But really, the best move would have been to

remain

parked on IVD, hoping that the emoticon argument would prevent him from making friends, and only changing it later if people didn't start scumleaning IVD--which they did.

[Kazyan]

Reads update: 2ndchosen1 moves up to a full-on townread for me now. He has come out of the gate in gamesolve mode, which looks very different to his scumgame last time.

I'm not sure what to think about eth0s. His posts fit with a pattern of "breaking up the townbloc" and adding to the Meuh dogpile, but that seems okay for now.

[Kazyan]

I'm being very sloppy with keeping my vote up-to-date because I'm shy about voting for scumleans instead of full scumreads. There's definitely scum that I haven't identified, and I don't want to help them sink a townie for flimsy reasons. The only person who has graduated out of "lean" territory, so far, is 2ndchosen1, and that's on the town side.

It's a good point, though. Being shy doesn't help the town. UNVOTE: , and I'm going to case Harumi now.

[Kazyan]

Okay, there's not a lot to analyze about Harumi. Harumi's motions are 1) starting the emoticon debate, 2) disliking Meuh's readslist, 3) backing off on the emoticon debate and calling attention to how Krazy jumped on Meuh, and 4) casting some doubt on me.

This makes sense as a scum move, actually: shade Meuh, back off to let the town fight her, then quietly shade everyone who gets involved in that argument.

Harumi

im kinda not vibing with, but thats probably because their reads seem so noncommittal to me.

Spoiler:

im sorry if this seems mean i dont wanna seem mean

what i mean is,
This is because a quick skim of Harumis messages i seemed to have skimmed over their reads (their reads dont rlly stand out as

reads

), but when i looked and saw 76 i saw reads in that post. Looking at the reads, it seems like "krazy seems town

buuuut maybe..

" "italiano seems town

buuut maybe..

" and "kazyan might be town

but maybe

" (that is what i mean by noncommittal.. they seem so unconfident with those reads. To me, it gave the impression they dont really want any backlash?

This is

probably just

me instinctively hedging, since I'm

usually

not willing to present something as an absolute truth unless I know for sure it is.

This, however, tracks. Emphasis mine--Harumi uses hedging word choice even in this sentence.

[Kazyan]

This is confirmation-biased as heck, but a Krazy/Harumi scumteam starts to make sense to me, given Krazy's attempt to pocket marci.

Pressure vote to see what happens: VOTE: Krazy.

[Kazyan]

Kazyan, from what you've said, I'm your

only

scumread, and afaik you haven't explained the read at all? I'd like justification for it!

Sure! I have had no reason to go back on my point in 64, basically. Your maintenance of colored votes after Krazy townread you for them has not changed my opinion about being performative.

[Kazyan]

Alright; let's talk about that, then. What merits a voting action in your eyes, eth0s?

Here's an example we can work with: I just opened up Cantrip's ISO, and his point in 145 has made me rethink how plausible Krazy is as scum. Going off emotions alone, I would unvote Krazy and leave it at that, but this isn't ELo, and we need five votes to make a decision. Thus, should I be voting Meuh instead?

I know that "shyness" isn't a good reason to keep my vote in my pants, but, in my last game, being correct about my opinions was unusually important. I was a 3-shot Vigilante. I got my first 2 shorts wrong--one of which hit a power role that would have tracked a nightkill!--and didn't have a chance to use my third shot, because we lost. So I'm comfortable with pressure votes, but committing to a this-person-is-scum-so-I'm-voting-them stance gives me "You shot PenguinPower and he was the JOAT" flashbacks.

P-edit for 2ndchosen1: I said a Krazy/Harumi team, not a Krazy/marci team. It seemed plausible to me that an SE would be thinking ahead towards ELo by making close friends with one person and feeling around how everyone else responded, while the newcomer just tried to generate openings. I am now rethinking that, given what Cantrip said.

[Kazyan]

Whoa, okay. Looking forward to that 2ndchosen1 read. Sure, I didn't get town vibes from the first half of 186, but why a full-on "

SCUM DETECTED

" response?

[Kazyan]

I'll get to that in a bit Kazyan. First I have a side question for you. I am going to do a readslist with gifs themed around anime husbandos and waifus. I am not sure what to do for you -- is there any particular anime characters you'd like me to use?

Any female gym leader from the Pokemon series.

[Kazyan]

Looking through 2ndchosen1's first few posts in Mini Normal 2187, I get what you mean about his scumrange now, Krazy. I think I just forgot what Day 1 was like in that game because Day 3 and Day 4 were so much more impactful to my memory. I don't know what to say besides that scum!Kazyan probably wouldn't try to lie in a way that was so easily fact-checked.

I don't know if I'm comfortable voting 2ndchosen1 so early; it feels like I'd just be holding over residual paranoia from the other game, because I still don't know how to tell if this is 2ndchosen1 being genuine or not. Whatever the case, he's no longer a townread, and more of a...null?

If we can be real for a second, I've been posting leans, but at this point I'm ready to throw up my hands and say I have no idea who is and isn't scum, because I cannot see through layers of WIFOM against a coordinated conspiracy that could very well just be sitting around talking about anime and rolling dice to determine what their fake reads are.

[Kazyan]

For example:

Random thought, but even if I'm wrong on one of them, Meuh and Harumi are never ever scum together after Meuh has committed herself to use the sunglasses emote in every post after Harumi's emotes complaint post

It could

totally

be Meuh and Harumi. Something something newbie scum like Day 1 distancing, something something WIFOM.

[Kazyan]

This, and the post before it, uh. Seems a bit odd.
The whole thing about the conspiracy seems a bit jokey but I can’t tell for sure. This post makes it seem legit though.
Speaking of which, bringing up WIFOM in this situation is counterproductive because WIFOM can explain anything.
It’d probably be better to determine which are more likely (and I doubt Krazy

literally

meant 100% certainty.)

I know WIFOM can explain everything--that's why I'm having such a hard time forming reads, because I haven't played enough games to know how to deal with it. I know the principle is looking at probabilities, but I don't have the experience to judge that--my previous attempt at ruling out unlikely situations in Mini Normal 2187 went down exactly the wrong path, because I genuinely can't tell what's unlikely, especially when the scum can watch us think and move to outsmart us.

In short, as one of Nexus's intro posts says, Mafia is hard.

[Kazyan]

Thanks, folks.

I didn't get an answer from eth0s, so I'll just UNVOTE: for now. I've got a new less-paralyzing idea about how to scan for scum now, and will implement that today, including a meaningful vote.

[Kazyan]

IVD: I have a specific thought on 2ndchosen1, but will wait on additional content from him before sharing it.

[Kazyan]

Okay, I looked through a bunch of ISOs with a new mindset. Meuh is scum.

The reasons for this is that all of her votes are opportunistic, backed by shallow reads. She previously expressed suspicion about Harumi in 75 and then about Krazy in 83. In 110, she jumps on the chance to call them a team, only because I suggested it first, and pressures Krazy for an explanation. Meuh's vote moves to Harumi in 181, but only did this because she could join IVD's Harumi vote in 119--Meuh did not have a Harumi vote previously, despite a scumlean over 100 posts earlier. Meuh townleaning 2ndchosen1 in 181, but then Krazy made a hard push to against 2ndchosen1 in 191. Then that townlean reverses over the course of two posts, and she jump on the 2ndchosen1 wagons, since that's the powertown's choice. All the while, she's playing dumb with comments like in 233.

VOTE: Meuh

Stop yelling at 2ndchosen1 for being confused about proper word choice around anime girls. Yeet Meuh instead.

[Kazyan]

Try the Meuh wagon instead. All the cool kids are on it.

[Kazyan]

Nexus, marcistar unvoted me in 238.

[Kazyan]

Imagine having a whole debate about whether 2ndchosen1 is scummy when Meuh is right there, being scum.

[Kazyan]

My new thing was the method I used to figure out who was scum: figure out how a person's actions, in their ISO, make sense

if

they're scum--just assume they are and work out the details. If nothing makes sense, then the starting assumption of scumminess can't be correct. For most people, I could not thus construct a narrative that made sense--but for Meuh, everything clicked immediately.

[Kazyan]

I don’t think scum would fight hard to save a townie so I think the Marci/2nd connection is gonna be more like t/s or s/s. @Marci: I believe you are either mistaken or you are scum with 2nd.

I highly doubt that on Day 1 a townie would be that adamant about saving another townie without having knowledge that they are townie, so I don’t believe it’s a t/t connection. (I.e. they aren’t masons together)

Is there any particular reason that this doesn't also apply to the Kazyan/2nd connection?

[Kazyan]

Krazy's "poisoning the well" perspective makes more sense to me, combined with the "UPDATE" part of the Chainsaw description, because otherwise, you're basically not allowed to have counterwagons on Day 1 without getting targeted yourself. That benefits no one.

[Kazyan]

I would also like Harumi's readslist.

Here's mine, with Harumi absent, because it will depend on her response:

Townread

:
IVD

Townlean

:
Krazy
marci
Cantrip

Null

:
2ndchosen1

Scumlean

:
eth0s (for his conspicuous silence)

Wow such scum

:
Meuh

[Kazyan]

I wonder what Cantrip's hot take on this is going to be. (Or eth0s, for that matter)

[Kazyan]

wtf I stop refreshing the thread for like an hour and suddenly we have HYPERPOSTING

Alright, let's go. Regarding some of Cantrip's takes, which are as hot as I was hoping they'd be:

1) I townread IVD because his posts come across as methodical and insightful--claims like the S/T or S/S relationship between Marci and 2ndchosen1 are strong and helpful, instead of trying to look busy. Given what you've pointed out, I can see how the tone and intent of his posts count be interpreted a different way, but I'm still thinking townie for now. I'll review things on Day 2.
2) 2ndchosen1's second game is this one. He has only one game before this, Mini Normal 2187, in which he was scum.
3) This "falsifying scumread" method indeed completely ignores strong pro-town signals, which is probably why you got burned and why I will at some point. I will likely get more sophisticated in evaluating people as I continue playing.

[Kazyan]

I don’t think anyone minds being townread if there’s a good reason. I’d say some people would view “methodical” as scummy. I know what you mean though. Hmm, maybe that’s why I’m always being scumread every game I play.

It would be scummy if you were doing "busywork" analysis, but the ideas you drop into the thread are useful.

I do actually have another opinion about methodical scum that I hope will help me sort at least one player once the deadline for this day starts looming, but for it to work, I can't go public with it right now.

[Kazyan]

also I'm not palying mafia atm

why do you say stuff like this?

'Cuz she's a werewolf, duh

[Kazyan]

E's, sorry; won't happen again

[Kazyan]

Harumi I feel like is playing a very agenda-based game.

expand on this?

Yeah, I don't see what e means on this either. There's a solid progression from posts 264 to 305 in Harumi's ISO. I guess the movement from "Kazyan sus" to "nevermind; the wagon led by Kazyan is a good one" could count. Oh, huh, I think I just talked myself out of this

[Kazyan]

Newbie question: if you're being scumread, how do you use that pressure to analyze for the real scum? e.g. I know at least three people doubt that I'm town right now, but I'm not sure what to do with that. Demonstrating my townosity doesn't seem like it would help, since that's exactly what scum do too--is it a matter of analyzing what people's agendas might be?

[Kazyan]

I feel like you should have kazyan as townier at least? idk I think kazy feels very townie, I get that you identified the one post pushing meuh since it very much was clear that they were like 'ima push meuh now' so the push feels kinda forced.

I was townreading him up till he posted 236 236 reaaaaaaally bothers me. Like, I can see 109 being posted by town, but 236 just irks me.

If strong opinions backed by multi-post pattern recognition is scummy, then you're just coaching the town to never scumhunt. Do you think that's pro-town?

[Kazyan]

236 comes from the perspective of someone who:
-has lost their only town game
-read the game where Prism snowed the entire game with like uber sweaty tryhardness

like kazy is actually just naked town and the way they want to play is that they want to be the one leading the wagon because at least that way they know at least the town is the one doing the things

I know, I *know* it reads identical to an open wolf trying to just do like their own wagon

but they're town

trust

*and no, I don't really dislike anything from Marci including 289 individually, it just bothers me a lot that it feels like she is like, doing things that feel like it's making it harder to solve chosen and it's hard for me to continue townreading her even if I still want and think she flips town if that makes sense

Like I actively townread Meuh, so I feel like I have a reason to oppose that wagon. She has chosen as like null but she's just decided he's a bad flip and that POV is just very ??? when the meuh case to me doesn't feel good at all

While my one towngame and one major spectation definitely inform how I want to play, my actual reason for pushing Meuh so hard is the falsification method that I described gave me a very loud, immediate "yes" on Meuh and a "no" on everyone else in the game.

[Kazyan]

can you walk me through this and how it would differentiate shitposty town from scum

I just try to reverse-engineer what the person's motivations would be in the broad strokes of their play--mostly their reads and votes--under the assumption that they are scum. The more tinfoil I have to put on my hat, the less likely it is that the starting assumption of scumminess is. It definitely overlooks strong town signals, but shitposting wouldn't be about reads and votes, so that doesn't matter. This is otherwise not a

good

method, but I don't actually know how to implement anything with a higher success rate because the mafia's two heads are smarter than my one, even if we didn't have WIFOM all over everything.

[Kazyan]

So basically it's "read the iso preflipping them red and see if it fits"?

Yeah, that.

I think I townlean Alisae for the unvote; the leadup to E-1 makes it seem like e was genuinely okay with 2ndchosen1 being the day 1 elimination, but then took it back to get out of a hammerable zone

[Kazyan]

This is a forum, not an instant messaging platform.

[Kazyan]

I'm not moving from Meuh, but I was thinking last night that Alisae/Meuh makes a lot of sense as a solve, despite my townlean on em earlier. The "do I vote for Harumi or 2nd?" exchange was bugging me.

Today, I don't like how much of the hyperposting is just buddying the shit out of Krazy while simultaneously killing other conversations. Poffering off the responsibility of eir vote choice between Harumi and 2ndchosen1 seems fishier and fishier the more I think about it.

[Kazyan]

krazy how r u townreading this?

I hate this response and I hate it so much. I got the same rhetoric right here in Mini Normal 2187, with scum trying to casually dismiss my points while simultaneously buddying the powertown.

P-edit for IVD: I'm fine with shooting up your list if it means I catch scum. As for a compromise vote, I don't like any existing wagon, but if we're on the last 24 hours and still yelling at each other, I guess 2ndchosen1.

[Kazyan]

And you guess 2nd? What do you foresee changing then that’s different to now that’ll make you be comfortable voting for chosen now?

I mean, he's a null for me, so if I'm not getting my Meuh elimination and Alisae isn't happening, I have to compromise further. There's a specific reaction or lack of reaction from 2ndchosen1 that I'm anticipating, based on what I know of his emotional character from before Mafiascum, which will point towards being scum or not being scum. If the 13-hour days he's talking about conclude before the deadline, I'll have a chance to see the reaction or lack thereof.

As for results-based thinking...sure. Fine.

[Kazyan]

It's going to be an enormous cognitive effort to get even slightly better at this game if using past experience to inform my current decisions is a fallacy. If that's the case, I shouldn't bother playing Newbie games after this, because playing Newbie games wouldn't help. There's god-tier play in the Newbie queue now anyway.

How would you feel about Harumi getting elim'd today?

Wouldn't like it.

[Kazyan]

Wouldn't like it.

why?

Because I think she's town. She reminds me of Lunar or Elements in my previous game, who just thinks differently than the townblock and doesn't apologize for doing so. See her nonstandard readslist for why.

also me flipping town proves that it's bad logic no?
It's a learning process it takes years.

It does and it is. I mean, town is probably losing this game anyway, judging by the environment, so it'll be a good example of how to think in the end.

[Kazyan]

I think the window may have passed on my plan for 2ndchosen1 that I've been alluding to, so I'll just explain it here for the benefit of the town. I know from our friendship that 2ndchosen1 is easily frustrated and will voice those frustrations in exaggerated language. My theory is that, if he were town, he would have voiced those frustrations to

us

, but if he were scum, he would have told

his scumbuddy

in their private topic. I was kind of hoping that we'd run him up to E-1, I could say "intent to hammer" over some flimsy reason when he was around, and see if he threatens to quit Mafiascum. With that in mind, it's a good idea to review his reactions to the E-2 speedwagon.

I did some more thinking about compromise votes. Harumi would be...fine, I guess. I think she's a townie, but if we're not voting the actual scum, then I'd rather we get rid of a townie that isn't advancing the gamestate much. Another compromise wagon I'd be comfortable with is self-voting, because if we miselim someone, I'm going to be an easy push on Day 2--and then we get to ELo with 2 mafia left. Flipping myself as town would really inform the town for Day 2, I think.

[Kazyan]

Kazy your wagon is dead, you've lost harumi and at this point if meuh is scum you should just blame me in post if you're town

who do you want after meuh?

Alisae I guess, but that's not happening either. So I guess Harumi or 2ndchosen1. None of my scumreads are going to be eliminated, so I'll just sheep the leading wagon.

Regarding 2nd's reaction to the E-2 wagon, I don't know.

[Kazyan]

[instagram][/instagram]

Alisae I guess, but that's not happening either. So I guess Harumi or 2ndchosen1. None of my scumreads are going to be eliminated, so I'll just sheep the leading wagon.

Regarding 2nd's reaction to the E-2 wagon, I don't know.

you think meuh/alisae is the team?

I mean, maybe? But now that I've cooled off, I can see why everyone hates my post 506, so I should take the dismissive response to it as NAI. I just want to sheep right now tbh.

It looks like we have a lot of people who want to vote 2nd, but are staying off the wagon to avoid hammer range. If we have this much consensus on him (outside of Marci/Harumi), I say we just go ahead and do it.

[Kazyan]

Yeah, 2ndchosen1 and I know each other.

[Kazyan]

What? Like, if we were masons together? If I knew for sure that anyone was town, this would be a lot easier.

[Kazyan]

Anything's possible, I guess. Nice role-fishing, though.

[Kazyan]

Wait, okay, I figured out what you're trying to figure out. Can you defer to my judgment on 2ndchosen1 because I know him? The answer is no, because we've played some voice chat sessions of Among Us, and I have a hard time sorting him as crewmate or impostor in that game regardless of alignment.

[Kazyan]

I give him an 85% chance of a town flip.

[Kazyan]

@kasyam what're your current thoufgts on my wagon? am I acting as expectef?

I can't say anything for sure, but I have a gut feeling that you flip VT.

[Kazyan]

Something about how the town has come around to your wagon doesn't sit right with me; it seems like there was a big push at first that just slowly converged as a number of compromise votes, and I get the sinking feeling that scum are leading this game--such that their step 1 is dunking on you as an easy miselim.

[Kazyan]

Like, there have been a ton of people going "my vote is functionally on 2ndchosen1, but I don't want to put him at E-1." It could be that A) both scum are shy and trying to help push the wagon along while avoiding actually having to be on it, or B) scum have controlled the conversation such that this looks like the only viable wagon even though the town isn't really feeling it. Case B) would be really bad.

[Kazyan]

No, arguing you specifically flip VT feels scummy, saying you flip town is fine

Okay, I've been letting you and Alisae lead the town conversation around via hooks-in-the-nose for this entire day phase, but now you're just blatantly browbeating me. Scum

don't know where the power roles are

.

[Kazyan]

VOTE: Krazy

[Kazyan]

No.

[Kazyan]

This is setting an absolutely terrible precedent to go back on a hard "no", but I'm just done. Here goes. VOTE: 2ndchosen1

[Kazyan]

You are not at all in the wrong, Alisae. I was really being a jerk with a short memory, and the former is something I need to work on. I've been summarily unpleasant during this game, mostly to you and Krazy, and it's not fair at all to you or anyone.

[Kazyan]

Townies are weird. That must be why it's so hard to emulate one.

[Kazyan]

Yeah, it looks like Krazy's jailkeeper claim was an attempt at sacrificing herself (drawing the nightkill) to give IVD another shot at investigation. Doing that in a hammer post looks really solid, since the town doesn't have a chance to talk it out, and it'd the last word on the subject before the mafia have to make a decision. If Cantrip were town and Krazy's gambit had worked, the town would have gone into Day 3 with a cop, an innocent, one scum, and two unconfirmed players. That would have made the Mafia's path to victory so narrow that it would practically be an auto-loss.

[Kazyan]

The accidental mason ping probably stabilized the situation for town a little--it was better to lose me than any of the townblock.

[Kazyan]

No problem. The town managed.