Warehouse 13: The Mafia Game (Game Over)

[GreyICE]

*Checks Mastina's ISO*

Crap, no easy scumread. Dammit.

Uh, does Lucrita's comb kill someone? Because I'm not down with killing LLD.

If not, this is a snoozefest, wake me up when there's some fucking blood. I don't play wank off pregame sessions.

[GreyICE]

Seriously three days until we're even allowed to wagon people?

QQ

Back in my day we'd have killed two or three people by now and be running around the town screaming in all caps and killing.

[GreyICE]

Okay, so turning on my gaf goggles.

I reread and think the Dunnstrall wagon is now blatantly anti-town.
Get off or claim scum.

hmmm

dang, i shall be doing neither

Do you think Bell could be TMI on Dunn town?

HMMMMMMMMMM

lol Titus scum Math scum

It's so easyyyy

50% of the time you're right every time

Titus is being really manipulative right now.

Totally separate from that dynamic, I hate some of what Dunn's put into the thread, but are a couple of posts I like. :/

yeah, I don't really have much of a read on dunn yet

also HOLY FUCK MOLD

Vote Titus

[GreyICE]

Haven't caught up but Math getting flack for FoSing LLD is bullshit. LLD has lied about being a mason before.

Can we plez lynch

amserious

[GreyICE]

Why not bronze Math, love?

Not that I won't bronze Titus for value and scum death but

Is math town or

MUCH stronger scumread. in that it exists

if both are scum y do u car?

[GreyICE]

lik u do kno their siblings rite Spiffeh?

theyre interactions wil always look the same.

[GreyICE]

Mild paranoia about being misdirected from scum math onto town Titus from a titus misread?

But I do independently scum read Titus so probably don't care? Just doing my due diligence to see why people don't want to kill Math in more detail.

My paranoia says ur bussing Mathblade and I'm the day 2 fallguy -_-

[GreyICE]

Oh oh I'm a mason 2 can i b kool now

[GreyICE]

Oh oh I'm a mason 2 can i b kool now

are you my mason buddy

obv. 3 person masonry with kool night powers we share rite

[GreyICE]

I'm nowhere near 100% on bork being town, but I liked his "you don't have to worry about me" post, and kinda townread it.

I think if bork's scum again it will show pretty quickly because he hates being scum and is no doubt still exhausted from drawing 2 scum roles in a row.

I admit the "you don't have to worry about me" part of that post was what most I townread him for from his ISO

However, that is overshadowed by two things:
1. His posts this game just seem overly...polished/manufactured? 694 is one of the posts that gave me this impression. Idk how to put it but I just get the vibe he's concerned with how he comes across here where I didn't at all feel that way in Tenet.
2. More concerning, I didn't like his interaction with you. The question about your read on LLD before her mason claim is pretty useless, as LLD has already claimed mason and is confirmed town assuming that claim is true. What is he looking for from you in terms getting a read when asking that? And then mentioning Tenet and how you both were fooled by LLD felt off to me too. I think scum!bork recognizes part of his win condition is getting town!sangres on his side and I view this interaction more as him buddying you than genuinely trying to get a read on you.

I can foresee this Day turning into the MathBlade/Titus/Dunnstral show and I'd prefer to shine some light on and not write off some of the players that are more likely to escape radars.

man i been away 2 long

when did u stop sucking

[GreyICE]

For real though I'm just trying to get a feel for why people think Titus is scummier than Math cause I wanna kill both but I picked Math and now people are swaying the other way.

So I have concerns I am 50/50 and scum pushing me the other way, so if you can help me with why Titus over Math more scummy or why Math townie depending on your opinion would be helpful

'kay

Titus' posts read like polished turds, very nice, and reasonable, and sensible.

I think Spiffeh town BM scum Prism null LLD scum lean Cakez is prob town but scum in a very minor circumstance so not considering it. If I am right then Titus is town by proxy.

This sounds like gibberish.

And Titus is correct, that does sound like total gibberish! Hence why Math is town.

Also FFS she's half buying your obvious bs mason claim. Bad scum reaction to buddy? Bad scum reaction to townie? Dunno, I like the common denominator.

[GreyICE]

I'm not that bad

In fairness to Pooky, well, I've played with you before. He kinda got a point.

[GreyICE]

Like honestly the least believable part of that hypothesis

Is Cakez coaching Mathblade. And not, like, visa versa.

[GreyICE]

Catchup soon count:

Mastina! (with bonus offer of lynching her... so tempting)
Tammy!
Kitty Trauma Team! (With bonus for there's two of them)

guyz I have a free money bet
not three green

[GreyICE]

Quite possibly the towniest town who ever towned

Honestly not wrong.

I actually think you're probably my strongest non-LLD townread, which would be:
Lady Lambdadelta*
PookyTheMagicalBear
Dunnstral
Bell
Kitty Trauma Team (hydra of Malakittens and kuribo)
borkjerfkin
sangres (hydra of fferyllt and Nachomamma8)
Tammy
GreyICE*

Titus
Spiffeh

Battle Mage


quiet

MathBlade

Prism
SirCakez

FUCK YOU

I DON'T WANT TO LYNCH LLD DAY ONE

I'VE BEEN AVOIDING THIS

[GreyICE]

Like she's not town.
I know she's not town.
It's just not a wagon that's going to succeed today, and I'd like to play a game with my wife where something stupid doesn't happen day 1.
If I'm dead tonight come back to this plox

[GreyICE]

[quote="In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net
I shut down dialogue about whether or not I am scum or whether or not my thinking makes sense because engaging people on their read of me is unpleasant for me and rarely feels productive.

Anyone who compulsively shuts down any scumread of them whether they're town or scum has made themselves a deeply unpleasant player.

Discussion of your alignment is always unproductive

for you

because at the start of the game penguin_alien sent you your alignment. Therefore there's no discussion that could be possibly productive

for you

because it's absolute factual knowledge that you already possess. It's productive for every player in the game that's not you, excepting perhaps your hypothetical scumbuddies (were you scum).

When you sign up to play a game of mafia, you're signing up for a game where your words, intentions, alignment, reads, and everything about your posts will be doubted. Now you can call out bad arguments. But attempting to shut down any possible discussion of it

having voluntarily, of your own free will signed up for a game you knew it would happen in

makes you a deeply unpleasant person to play mafia with.

Have some fucking empathy. Everyone else is playing the game with the same understanding and limitations, and most of us are town trying to figure things out. In fact in every game most of everyone is town trying to figure things out.

In other words, you're being an ass. Chill.

[GreyICE]

This post is town as fuck

No it's not, it's NAI. I'd make that post to anyone regardless of my alignment. In fact it's probably a good example of something that I'd often call "belongs in Mafia Discussion" because I could transplant it there almost word for word without breaking site rules.

It's just a post I felt like making

[GreyICE]

Are you calling LLD scum just because she's mastina's top townread? lmao

CAKEBOI IS IN ON THE SETUP CALLING IT HERE

<3

How is the only game I've played with you that ridiculous nuclear meme game?

Also I remember why I'd forgotten it that other time, it's because I was the serial killer in a game where everyone had nukes and all I could do was hide and shit my pants.

[GreyICE]

Quite possibly the towniest town who ever towned

Honestly not wrong.

I actually think you're probably my strongest non-LLD townread, which would be:
Lady Lambdadelta*
PookyTheMagicalBear
Dunnstral
Bell
Kitty Trauma Team (hydra of Malakittens and kuribo)
borkjerfkin
sangres (hydra of fferyllt and Nachomamma8)
Tammy
GreyICE*

Titus
Spiffeh

Battle Mage


quiet

MathBlade

Prism
SirCakez

FUCK YOU

I DON'T WANT TO LYNCH LLD DAY ONE

I'VE BEEN AVOIDING THIS

Like she's not town.
I know she's not town.
It's just not a wagon that's going to succeed today, and I'd like to play a game with my wife where something stupid doesn't happen day 1.
If I'm dead tonight come back to this plox

Which she do you mean?
If you mean LLD then why does scum!LLD attack me out of the gate and fake claim mason?
If you mean Mastina then why does scum!Mastina sheep my Prism read hard?

Any particular reason you didn’t answer this?

@GreyICE

No particular reason. If you really want answers:

1) Scum LLD getting into a 1v1 with a loud townie is so common it's almost a scum tell. You're worse at debating than her, so if you got into an argument with her you'd lose.
2) Mastina's reads list is always better when she's scum. But otherwise, you'd be able to answer that on your own.

[GreyICE]

Actually, is Mastina town this game?

Because of that prism wall post, three points of it was flavor gaming the mod, and one point of it was "he scum because he scum lawl". Which leaves us with:

Yaknow I really wanted people to ask me about Prism so I could do this sooner but I actually don't feel like waiting as a reactive thing so I'mma be proactive and put this out.

I actually have a fairly compelling case for why I think Prism is scum here.

First I want to preface this by saying I'm intentionally playing more abrasively. As mentioned before, diversity is nice and I'm tired of playing friends after Iceland.

1: Nine times out of ten, a player saying this is going to be scum. Deliberately altering your playstyle in a game with multiple players intimately familiar with your playstyle and justifying it in advance is a common scum ploy. (Heck I can even back this up with a rather notorious example if you'd like, but suffice to say, this is a real tell.)/quote]

And equally I could say that posting "no content now, I'll catch up soon promise!" Is a scumtell, because, well, it is.

[GreyICE]

We should totally run that Nuke Meme game back tho :>

Hell, I think I could probably manage to run that one. If I get the mental energy I'll volunteer

Right now a few mafia games is about my limit.

As for my flavor, I don't think it's really indicative of much, but it's been a damn long time since I watched the show. I'm not sure this game is flavor breakable.

TBH I don't actually remember what my character did on the show so I can't even tell if it's flavor accurate.

[GreyICE]

I'm also not sure I've ingested enough drugs to understand Mathblade's posts.

In, like, my life.

[GreyICE]

Bork, you seem to be following what is happening here. So let me ask you... what is happening here?

[GreyICE]

math is trying to solve a puzzle and the pieces are coming together (albeit in a way that i'm not super following the verbiage of) and is probably town

Okay, I get math thinks there's a flavor puzzle. I'm just not following why someone should have a grappling hook and stuff.

If flavor determines what artifacts you start with wouldn't flavor claiming be bad? I looked up my guy in the wiki and I think I'd say my start with artifacts matches my flavor.

I mean I'm happy to let people work, at worst it gives us some insight into Mathblade and hopefully some extra scum. I'd just like to be able to decypher this train at some point.

[GreyICE]

If flavor determines what artifacts you start with wouldn't flavor claiming be bad?

publicly, maybe, but that's not how prism opened the game until pressure dictated a change of tactic, and as we all found out nothing of high value was really leaked

Oh, okay.

Hmmm. This is boring.

Vote: TITUS

This wagon has literally zero flavor reasons! I like!

[GreyICE]

Hey quick, people, give me one reason Titus is town if you're not voting her.

I don't need a full fucking case or shit, just one reason that I'm wrong and shouldn't be voting her.

[GreyICE]

Okay, I'm gonna summarize my thoughts after I see answers, but "taking the piss" is like my favorite expression ever.

[GreyICE]

Booork bork if a townie is doing something
Or even someone you think might be town
Don't shit in their lane. Like question if you want, but give it time to prooocessss

It's a thing
Like run conclusions afterwards and if they go nowhere with it feel free to hang em by the neck until dead. But let things flooowww

[GreyICE]

Okay, I'm gonna summarize my thoughts after I see answers, but "taking the piss" is like my favorite expression ever.

It’s on my top ten list of please don’t say to a trans guy. I gotta work but I like the Titus vote.

I'll keep that in mind.

(Also it was previously my vote, but I feel like people have forgotten a complete lack of posting is NOT suddenly town posting)

[GreyICE]

Okay, fuck it, you sold me. I've seen naked survivalism before, but this approaches performance art.

Vote: Mathblade

If I'm dead tomorrow and you're looking at my ISO from the future, please don't write this wagon off as proving LLD is town, given what mathblade is doing this page.

[GreyICE]

And equally I could say that posting "no content now, I'll catch up soon promise!" Is a scumtell, because, well, it is.

Eh, I don't think it is. It can be for specific players, yes, myself among them (tho given as how this is not the only game I was neglecting you can be pretty damn well assured that in this case it wasn't one even tho I am quite aware of how the tell can apply to me but obviously I can't elaborate here as much as I would prefer to), but in general I don't think "no content, will catch up later" is a scumtell.

I'd elaborate on why you're wrong on this, but that'd be distracting from the fact that everything below it was low quality. And I don't mean my ongoing joke(not a joke) about your read list being upside down, I mean it's just low quality. Even if it explained an initial scumread on Prism, it wouldn't explain what he's doing now that maintained that scumread. And while I agree people's alignment doesn't change mid-day 1 (usually) even in your entire long wallpost the only conclusion you reached was "it's more likely to come from scum than town."

What's he done since then that should make us want to lynch him? Because unless this tell is 100% "if this guy is town then lynch me immediately day 2" levels then you should be looking at their play AFTER the 'scummy thing'. 'I think that flavor sounds scummy' is a great reason for a page 5 wagon. Absolutely tits, love it. As a page 45 wagon, it lacks something. That "something" is "any fucking reason anyone would agree with you."

BUT

At a bare minimum, lets say everything I wrote is trash above. Complete, worthless trash, and you are 100% certain he's scum based on that.

You presented that like 10 pages ago. No one agreed with you. You're not going to get a Prism wagon with that logic. Period.

So is your intention here to post all this and... not get Prism lynched? Do you actually want us to vote Prism? Because if you do, this is convincing no one. And worse, by going back to it a second time it looks like it's not meant to convince anyone.

Got anything more?

[GreyICE]

actually my strongest scumread. (That'd be SirCakez.) But I absolutely

should

explain my Prism scumread because if I don't, I'll never have anyone follow me because they won't see where I'm coming from.

hol up

You're making a case on your

second

strongest scumread?

Don't tell me it's for posterity, if you're nightkilled tonight after this day 1 then a choir of angels will come out my butt to play Taps on the way to the dead thread.

[GreyICE]

Hey, um, I haven't checked a vote count, but Cakez is at L-infinity. Unless something changes, he's not gonna get lynched today either.

At this point you're claiming to ignore where your vote is (a useless wagon) to tell us something about Prism that you already told us, but this time... more so?

You sure you didn't just check your own ISO in the middle of writing all that Prism stuff and go "oh shit my vote is actually on Cakez" and then think "but it'd look scummy to change it"? Because that logic makes a lot more sense than the line you're peddling now. It makes perfect sense, with one starting assumption.

[GreyICE]

Okay then, since you brought him up, lets address the elephant in the room.

Because right now you seem to be soft tossing out alternatives to the Mathblade wagon without voting Mathblade, and without really giving an opinion on Mathblade's wagon. Or Titus'. Meanwhile Mathblade is calling you obvscum and wants your head. Apparently. As of like literally the last page or something.

To say this doesn't look good is understating it a bit. What's your opinion on Mathblade, the current fucking wagon?

I'm really trying hard not to scumread you for 'playstyle differences' but I honestly don't grasp what you're doing and how it's town here. While if I look at you as scum, it makes a surprising amount of sense.

[GreyICE]

Oh and speaking of

[GreyICE]

So since Cakez is your strongest scumread, does Cakez work as a Mathblade partner?

I'm assuming Prism works as a Cakez partner because if you tell me he doesn't my head will literally explode.

[GreyICE]

actually my strongest scumread. (That'd be SirCakez.) But I absolutely

should

explain my Prism scumread because if I don't, I'll never have anyone follow me because they won't see where I'm coming from.

hol up

You're making a case on your

second

strongest scumread?

Don't tell me it's for posterity, if you're nightkilled tonight after this day 1 then a choir of angels will come out my butt to play Taps on the way to the dead thread.

Hey hey!

She’s doing the thing Dunn is!

You know voting someone else and talking about someone else despite someone else voting SirCakez who she townreads...and she’s spamming the thread with all theses posts about Prism which won’t happen today.

What a great point, Mathblade! Certainly only scum would do that!

Take your present I will “bus” Mastina? Get it over elim.

Happy now.

Because you’re clearly not a mason

VOTE: Mastina

I will even case Dunn later tonight maybe while my vote is on Mastina.

I am THAT scummy.

I know your actual role, you're the goddamn Vineyard of WIFOM.

You can't just try to push me on to Mastina with something you did a few pages ago. Sauce, goose, gander.

[GreyICE]

I mean you quoted where I followed LLD’s instructions....

Like I mean.

And Mastina is following Eris, goddess of discord, wallposts, and making inverted readslists.

But come on, you can't just mortgage all responsibility off to LLD. Even if she was modconfirmed town that wouldn't make everything she said a good idea.

[GreyICE]

@LLD Like I've had a few hours to step back and realize how hurtful I was, and if you'd said the same to me I'd be pretty miserable about it myself. We both know what it's like for people to call us toxic even when we aren't trying to be, or to get the wrong impression of us. I know you don't intend to upset people or act toxic, and I know this because I don't either. And if you'd leveled an accusation at me like I did, I'd have been hurt too.

I'll play with you anytime. Just not thinking clearly the last day or two, not that that's an excuse for being hurtful.

Pedit: the fever was a side effect from the second dose of the vaccine, I already had Covid in January but it's only been about three weeks since I recovered, so the vaccine effects hit a lot harder

Goddamn it, I don't play Mafia for these warm, fuzzy, heartwarming emotions. What is this rampant degeneracy?

Mod: I demand better! I signed up for blood, gore, and veins in my teeth. I want to eat burnt dead bodies. I want to kill! KILL! WARN THESE DEGENERATES FOR THEIR RAMPANT GOOD FEELINGS AND MATURITY

[GreyICE]

Well, Mathblade is town.

I think I have a line I've used before about mafia: If someone wants to die, I'm happy to let them.
I don't think this game is a town loss.
I don't think this game is a town loss even if Titus flips town.
But she's not gonna.

I'm sorry you're depressed Titus. I've been there, I offer spiritual hugs. I do believe that 'bronzing' you is the right move.
Also apparently we're limited to 70 pages? I assume that starts when the afternoon does so we've got until page 89. Uh... okay. I just don't believe the requirement that we finish voting by page 89 is seriously hurting the town. Especially not enough to get someone depressed. I mean we're 30 pages off that, christ, I'm depressed at the thought that this day could be going another 30 pages without a wagon completing.

[GreyICE]

Wait wasn't LLD pushing me to get Mathblade over Titus.

-_-

Honey are you scum

[GreyICE]

...

...

Yeah I can answer that on my own.

[GreyICE]

disagree. If someone wants to die, you look around and see who seems to be shifting responsibility so they don't look bad on Town flip.

Tell you what, this will help you solve things more if it comes from a non-claimed mason.

GreyICE, why do we kill people who want to die?

We are heartless monsters who only feel pleasure at human suffering and the thought of a willing sacrifice arouses us.

[GreyICE]

Man I am incredibly happy that the Titus wagon gaining teeth has produced so much very interesting activity! It is very good to see you all. Hello hydra! You've been remarkably silent! Glad you decided to give us some activity day 1.

Prism, if you're unsatisfied with your level of play... that's on you. We have no obligation to wait.

[GreyICE]

VOTE: BM
VOTE: Dunn
VOTE: Mastina
VOTE: Titus << will rescind if she rescinds her defeatist shit

Someone’s gotta be brave enough to do the first vote. That’s where I wanna go.

Flash Battle Mage?

Uhhhhhh

Weren't you calling Titus scum before her defeatist shit?

Since then she's posted "playing is way too hard and the game is all stacked against the town, woe is us, there's no point in townies even trying." And now you're willing to unvote her?

Holy fuck.

You go right back into the scum pile if Titus is

scum

because this is fucking awful. In point of fact if Titus is scum I'd love to see your ass vigged tonight because damn it'd feel good to get another red flip.

And it's a large, you better believe there's some goddamn vigs.

[GreyICE]

Like I sympathize with major depressive disorder. I do. FFS I have some personal experience. But I imagine random.org decided who was town and scum, it didn't get handed out to the happiest people.

The only posts that Titus posted that have felt genuine to me, the actual only ones, were the ones where she's discussing her depression. I think she is being incredibly genuine about that, and I sympathize with her, and it sucks. But look at this shit!

*eats popcorn*

Working on my catchup now. It's going to be interrupted at points. Bear with me. I'm using a couple hours before my doctor's appointment.

NOTE: Next post is 1264, meaning she posted just to let us know she was starting catchup.

The popularity contest for artifacts encourages the lying for power. Then the post limit creates a tradegy of the commons situation with posting.

Every post I make takes a post from someone else. Players like Math don't get that. He sucks day 1 too and he spams. He doesn't work with others. I think his level of crazy is town this game but I have been burned before.

I guess what I need is hope. I don't see where it is.

Like how did we go from "*Eats Popcorn*" and 'hey starting my catchup' to "everyone is spamming and wasting our precious posts, and every one I make takes one from the rest of ussssss and we're all so dooomed"

Hello hydra! You've been remarkably silent! Glad you decided to give us some activity day 1.

lol what

whichever hydra you're referring to, both have very nearly twice as many posts as you, so no more "remarkably silent" than you yourself. Anyway, I'm glad you decided to give us some activity day 1.

-k

I'm sorry, I'm post limited. I've can only make one post for every one of your IQ points, so I'm damn near out.

[GreyICE]

Open offer

I will literally fucking lunch Mastina just for this HG Prism flavor shit
Anyone may take me up on this any time they please.

"Hi I'm gonna go VLA but before I go, have I told you about this flavor thing that LITERALLY NO ONE ELSE CARES ABOUT OR IS WILLING TO VOTE PRISM OVER"
"Titus wagon? What Titus wagon? Anyway, off to go lifeguard, but before I go, remember, flavor text!"

[GreyICE]

Mastina, at this point it isn't even the fucking flavor, fuck that.

It's that you have used one case to sit in a goddamn hole and watch the world go by.

Dear god. It's so bad it'd actually make Prism look worse if you flipped scum because it'd look like scum distancing. That is LITERALLY how bad this is.

[GreyICE]

If I had a bullet for every player in this town.

I'd shoot Spiffeh 14 times for that post

[GreyICE]

I still haven't dived into her ISO.

I would recommend doing so and checking her play here compared to other recent games.

Literally the only reason Titus would be scum here is being too townie; her play in this game is literally better than I've seen from her in any other recent game.

Christ no. I've played with Titus before, I've fought with Titus before, and no, Titus can play better than this.

[GreyICE]

VOTE: Mastina

VOTE: Mastina
Like I said would do either.

I mean at this point I am explicitly fine with these votes even/especially if GI joins them there because they're votes that were on Titus that no longer are.

I'll happily take a wagon on me if it means Titus isn't a wagon.

The more and more I see from Titus, the more and more I'm

that

sure she's town here.

Is the game just to split the wagon to reduce pressure -_-

[GreyICE]

Me, sangres, Tammy, and Spiffeh all have basically the same reads and somehow this game is still hard. Amazing.

Probably because that bloc isn't all town.

Is it possible quiet siteflaked?

Sure, but quiet's posting was scum even before the siteflake and I buy that rolling scum in a game like this could cause a siteflake.

Tbh at this point I would flash wagon Battle Mage or quiet and wouldn't feel bad about it

I mean literally the only reason I'd not vote Battle Mage is due to having a perma-scumread on the slot.

If Grey follows through with his threat..That block and Kitty all town.

Oh it's an easy threat to follow through with.

Vote: Mastina

Y'know I think I'm gonna trust my experience and the experience of Titus' brother over your assurance that this is town Titus, Mastina.

But more to the point I feel like this is a goddamn bit of theater because the Prism drum you've been banging finally broke.

[GreyICE]

No Mastina

You don't get to get out of this by going "lol I'm deliberately scummy!"

I can bronze Titus tomorrow, it's no skin off my nose.

[GreyICE]

Why the FUCK would you ever kill either of those slots, that better be a scum doublekill of some sort

1) There is only one anti-town faction in play for this game (Mafia). There are four Mafia-aligned players.

Whoever played hero vig can tongue my taint.

Unless you're 3rd party and the above doesn't count SKs as an anti-town faction, which would... slightly irritate me.

Not okay with LLD getting the artifact. She is absolutely on the list.

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (1): quiet
SirCakez (7): mastina, Dunnstral, Kitty Trauma Team, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalbear, Titus, MathBlade

<- HEY TOWN IS THERE A GOOD REASON NOT TO MURDERFUCK FROM HERE?

mastina (9--BRONZED): GreyICE, Prism, Battle Mage, Tammy, SirCakez, borkjerfkin, Bell, Sangres, Spiffeh

Vote: Titus

[GreyICE]

Why the FUCK would you ever kill either of those slots, that better be a scum doublekill of some sort

1) There is only one anti-town faction in play for this game (Mafia). There are four Mafia-aligned players.

Whoever played hero vig can tongue my taint.

Unless you're 3rd party and the above doesn't count SKs as an anti-town faction, which would... slightly irritate me.

Not okay with LLD getting the artifact. She is absolutely on the list.

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (1): quiet
SirCakez (7): mastina, Dunnstral, Kitty Trauma Team, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalbear, Titus, MathBlade

<- HEY TOWN IS THERE A GOOD REASON NOT TO MURDERFUCK FROM HERE?

mastina (9--BRONZED): GreyICE, Prism, Battle Mage, Tammy, SirCakez, borkjerfkin, Bell, Sangres, Spiffeh

Vote: Titus

You're voting for Titus to get the artifact, which unless I'm really misunderstanding you, it's not what you want?

What.

Right morning.

Vote: GreyICE

[GreyICE]

I did not vig KTT, lmfao

Yeah we get the suspiciously specific denial.

If you vigged KTT you'd be town. Dumb, but town.

I'm not convinced you're town.

[GreyICE]

I did not vig KTT, lmfao

Yeah we get the suspiciously specific denial.

If you vigged KTT you'd be town. Dumb, but town.

I'm not convinced you're town.

Same rule as before.

I will literally claim my Mason partner in thread and then bronze you for forcing me to claim my mason partner.

So it's either accept i'm confirmed town or I'll confirm it... and then murder you.

Also I love you

I love you too. And I don't negotiate with terrorists.

Feel free to do your worst. I'm voting me for the item, because I know who I can trust.

And anyone who was awake yesterday should know the exact same thing.

[GreyICE]

[GreyICE]

I'd kinda be down for a pooky skullfuck tbh

[GreyICE]

I will legit laugh if the first five posts of the scum QT are all "lets mislynch Cakez" and they don't even manage to get that done.

[GreyICE]

This Cakez argument is such garbage. Oh wow he had no strong feelings about Mastina. No offense to SirCakez, but I don't count him among the paragon of scumhunters. If he's scum, mastina could have made copious wine off "oh wow I was a counterwagon to scum." Can Cakez do the same? Or is Cakez the sort of player who gets lynched day 1-3 in larges regardless of alignment. I haven't played with him a whole lot BUT I HAVE MY BET.

We're lynching on that wagon, no ifs, ands, or buts. I will reconsider this on day 3 if scum don't shoot me, sure.

That being said.

Vote: Mathblade

I've seen town mathblade, and quite frankly this isn't it.

[GreyICE]

OH YEAH AND PRISM IS MOD CONFIRMED TOWN

I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ONE PERSON MENTION "FLAVOR" EVER THE FUCK AGAIN

[GreyICE]

YES SCUMTEAM IN THIS PLAYER LIST MASTINA'S LAST GIFT TO YOU WAS YOU HAVE TO SHOOT PRISM. DEALWITHIT.GIF

[GreyICE]

This Cakez argument is such garbage. Oh wow he had no strong feelings about Mastina. No offense to SirCakez, but I don't count him among the paragon of scumhunters. If he's scum, mastina could have made copious wine off "oh wow I was a counterwagon to scum." Can Cakez do the same? Or is Cakez the sort of player who gets lynched day 1-3 in larges regardless of alignment. I haven't played with him a whole lot BUT I HAVE MY BET.

We're lynching on that wagon, no ifs, ands, or buts. I will reconsider this on day 3 if scum don't shoot me, sure.

That being said.

Vote: Mathblade

I've seen town mathblade, and quite frankly this isn't it.

Then join me on Titus. You’ll end up there anyway and save posts.

Prism who I said was town yesterday would never be a vig shot.

If Titus is red I would vig you. This is a blatant chainsaw defense of Titus.

Well, if you want to submit a night kill on me go right ahead. You had your chance last night

[GreyICE]

@GreyIce, Can you vote Pooky with us? It's still on the Cakez wagon.

I'm pretty sure Pooky and DGB are scum. I'd policy Math if I had to, but I would rather eliminate scum.

This isn't a policy Titus. I'm perfectly capable of working with Mathblade, even if that working is, um, occasionally fraught with prickliness. We don't agree on how to play mafia necessarily, but we can get along.

This is me voting for a red flip here.

Could also be very strongly convinced on quiet/DGB due to a few Mastina posts, but do not feel nearly as strongly about Pooky.

[GreyICE]

Second, I have waited all game to see how GreyICE has chosen to engage with my slot, and am skeptical of the approach he's taken and broadly want to see a lot more reads and activity.

Spoiler: Longer wall on Grey, which I would like him to weigh in on

Commentary on my slot hasn't really happened other than him randomly calling out Bell and chainsawing for me with regards to mastina. I have a few issues with how that went down. It was great to see him go to bat against mastina and to force through a vote on her, the problem is that he disappeared entirely after 1557, which leaves more of this to guesswork than I would like. Great flip and most of this progression is believable to me, particularly around questioning things like the teams, but two things really caught my eye.

Dear god. It's so bad it'd actually make Prism look worse if you flipped scum because it'd look like scum distancing. That is LITERALLY how bad this is.

This got no followup.

Actually, is Mastina town this game?

Because of that prism wall post, three points of it was flavor gaming the mod, and one point of it was "he scum because he scum lawl". Which leaves us with:

Yaknow I really wanted people to ask me about Prism so I could do this sooner but I actually don't feel like waiting as a reactive thing so I'mma be proactive and put this out.

I actually have a fairly compelling case for why I think Prism is scum here.

First I want to preface this by saying I'm intentionally playing more abrasively. As mentioned before, diversity is nice and I'm tired of playing friends after Iceland.

1: Nine times out of ten, a player saying this is going to be scum. Deliberately altering your playstyle in a game with multiple players intimately familiar with your playstyle and justifying it in advance is a common scum ploy. (Heck I can even back this up with a rather notorious example if you'd like, but suffice to say, this is a real tell.)

And equally I could say that posting "no content now, I'll catch up soon promise!" Is a scumtell, because, well, it is.

The start of the engagement actually bothers me significantly. mastina's point against me was very valid, even if the conclusion was wrong. As mentioned, I also wanted to see mastina engage more with my play (especially the whole "when you take Prism's play as a WHOLE..." nonsense). But this nonsense comes later, I really just want her to engage with me to see the town side of my play. The truth is mastina never needed more; it was a good point and the flavor argument wasn't terrible. It was when she reached for more that this became transparently trash. My concern is that Grey is assuming mastina is wrong from the getgo.

Normally I'd be less concerned with this just because yeah,

mastina did need to engage with my play even if the single scumtell was sufficient

. But Grey watched me singlehandedly steamroll two games as scum to the point where he called one of the games "1v8". They weren't particularly memorable games and I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't remember me at all. If he just doesn't even want to bother trying to read me either, that makes sense. But going out of his way twice to randomly defend me, first by piling onto Bell, second with the mastina engagement, makes me skeptical.

I can absolutely see this slot being town, but the positioning around me and the disappearance at the EoD make me want more.[/spoiler]
[/quote]

Okay, my dude, I'll walk you through this slowly, and once. Mastina is not a completely shit player, even if I dislike her reads, but she understands the fundamentals of playing Mafia. Those fundamentals are pretty simple - you need to get a wagon to lynch scum. That's far more important than reads building.

As I said to her yesterday, her argument on you - even if we bought it was completely correct - was not building a wagon. Period. And if she wasn't busy building a wagon, was interrogating you on flavor likely to change anything? No. You were not going to change your flavor claim based on what she was saying. Even if you completely misclaimed your fakeclaim as scum, you wouldn't just up and change your flavor. So I wanted to know what she was doing. The argument wasn't just a bad argument, it was an argument that was manifestly neither advancing a wagon on you nor generating posts from you that would help her read you.

Her explanation for it was insane. And not the "townies have the weirdest logic" insane, it was just "this makes no fucking sense" insane.

Other than that, I'm not big on playing Mafia games on the weekend. I tend to use them to relax.

So anyway, Prism, if Mastina's argument on you was so good, is there any reason I should townread you? Since you think the argument that you botched a fakeclaim was in fact a great argument?

[GreyICE]

Uh... something went wrong there...

[GreyICE]

Mathblade, is your read seriously that the entire scumteam was bussing Mastina over... Cakez?

I'm asking if that's seriously what you think happened.

[GreyICE]

Hey Titus! You're analytical, right?

Real quick, how are you using the term "chainsaw defense" here?

One chance, answer right.

[GreyICE]

Bonus points if you can identify how it's commonly used on mafiascum and compare!

See, I'll give Prism a pass for this because expectations aren't that high from that slot. You get no passes, Titus.

[GreyICE]

In DEFCON 4.0 the main, competing wagons at the end of Day 1 were Untrod Tripod and Something_Smart. Both of them were scum. When S_S was limmed, UT was practically cleared and won in MYLO because of it (among other things).

It can happen.

It can happen. Fine, vig the fucker. It'd be a better vig than Sangres or Kitty Trauma Team. IDC.

Lets do something else today rather than "back to the day 1 wagon even though the other one flipped scum."

[GreyICE]

Like, imagine what we learn if Cakez is scum. We learn scum were guaranteed bussing. Wait, pretty much everyone was voting for Mastina or Cakez, that means nothing.
Imagine what we learn if Cakez is town. We learn... probably not that much.
If Cakez gets vigged... we flip Cakez, and can have an actual day phase.
If Cakez doesn't get vigged, we can sort him a different day phase.

Again, I have yet to see what's so scummy about Cakez that isn't just "how he plays". I have never read his past games, but I will bet you $50 here and now that he gets lynched days 1-3 in most of them. Fuck, I will paypal you the money if that's not the case. Towns have a profile on players they like to lynch early, and Cakez fits it.

Is a bit of that on him? Yeah, prolly. But here he is, asking you questions. So Spiffeh, is there anything else we could be doing with our time?

[GreyICE]

In DEFCON 4.0 the main, competing wagons at the end of Day 1 were Untrod Tripod and Something_Smart. Both of them were scum. When S_S was limmed, UT was practically cleared and won in MYLO because of it (among other things).

It can happen.

It can happen. Fine, vig the fucker. It'd be a better vig than Sangres or Kitty Trauma Team. IDC.

Lets do something else today rather than "back to the day 1 wagon even though the other one flipped scum."

To be clear, that was in response to Cakez' 2607.

GI what are your thoughts on bork and DGB atm?

DGB is Quiet? Didn't love that slot. Mastina liked to pick on people, Mastina had Quiet solidly as "someone she didn't pick on." Look at these posts:

I think Spiffeh town BM scum Prism null LLD scum lean Cakez is prob town but scum in a very minor circumstance so not considering it. If I am right then Titus is town by proxy.

Scummy reads

Scratch the scunread, Dunn's town.

quiet is aggressively ambivalent (which is to say, one post rapidly swaying from definitely-scum and definitely-town, hard to lock down as one of those and not the other).

Just popping in to try and catch up (shockingly busy weekend); but doesn't scum know, or at least have some insight? Don't scum get to pick between two, choose one, the second one goes up for vote? Don't think that particularly changes my view on Prism, which I will need to update from the last 6 pages, but scum should know or at least have some insight on all artifacts that get put in front of us, no?

It's not strong but by gut the ambivalence has been broken in favor of scum.

I'd kill a bitch for these two posts.
If you think I have some magic fucking 8 ball of "reading DGB" then... I don't. Sorry. It's not fair to DGB, but then again, DGB got Quiet's role PM. We're not playing by some code of chivalry here.

Bork is in the great pile of w/e with Dunnstral, B_M and Bell. Probably town.

[GreyICE]

A chainsaw is when someone attacks the attacker of someone else.

For example, Adam attacks Brian. Charlie then attacks Adam usually for his attack on Brian. That's a chainsaw.

Sometimes a chainsaw is from scum defending a partner but not always. It can and commonly is town defending town.

Catching up now.

A chainsaw defense is where scum

defends a buddy

by attacking their attacker. Because otherwise, attacking someone who is attacking someone else is called

playing a game of mafia.

Because any post that says 'this argument is crappy, what are you doing' is FUCKING PLAYING THE GAME.

This is "reasons for voting are scummy" except fucking serious. Which you realized midway through, because you FUCKING REALIZED THE SAME THING I SAID ABOVE.

GreyICE is someone I should review. The willing to murder me and chainsaw defense was odd. mastina's play around me was odd. Scum's play around me as a whole was odd.

This is "I read my buddy's ISO and wow I look like shit after that flip."

You can’t seriously be arguing looking outside of Titus after these posts.

Seriously Grey?

When you're right, you're right.

Vote: Titus

[GreyICE]

like if I am this wrong on my read then I'd rather invest that time into digging into other reads because obviously I need to reevaluate

Cakez, get out of the tunnel and vote Titus with us.

If you are her scumbuddy, this earns you lots of towncred. Lots and lots of towncred. We promise.
If you're town, well, do you really think she's flipping town? She read Mastina's ISO and is like 'oh crap'

[GreyICE]

Pooky. Titus read Mastina's ISO to see how Mastina talked about her. She read scum's ISO to see how

she looked after the flip

.

There's no meaning to be found, it's bad imitation of her usual VCA.

[GreyICE]

Still maintain it’s possibly a case of Cakez + Titus if Titus is scum here.
It makes sense the way she was railing on Pooky then bailed when I proposed you as a mason.
If she really thought that was the right wagon she’d have looked at Cakez or Dunn or questioned her initial assumption and assumed a mass pile on of Mastina.

She’s just not logically sound here.

This also matches my theory Mastina wasn’t white knighting and was trying to Save Titus.

I really think a majority of the scum were wagoned on D1.

It’s going to be a matter of finding that third because it would likely be a deep wolf and not a DGB. Someone universally townread like a Spiffeh Bell or GreyICE or Prism. Scum weren’t defeatist and they were posting so a DGB scum doesn’t really make sense there but if we have Titus scum then we can circle back but I don’t think Titus scum bussed DGB here

1) There's confirmed 4 scum
2) Don't count out hero playing. One of the better scum performances I've seen was out of Slaxx when he lost both his buddies D1/N1 and went on to live to Day 4 as a solo mafia goon vs 9 townies with power roles, and give a pretty amazing showing of himself when he was getting POE yeeted (of the "well this is where I'd look for the final scum" type of effort posts). Some people rise to the occasion.

That being said, a day 1+day 2 scumlynch if pretty hard to lose from if it's not multiball. Even if they have 4. I'm feeling pretty good rn

[GreyICE]

Grey-I think there are a few things you could help answer, actually.

1) Why did your concern that mastina was spewing me red get no followup?
2) What do you make of this post from Titus, with 2588 in mind?

mastina's play is a bit weird as either alignment. Why would she take a dive for me when we largely have the same skillset and I am worse mentally atm? No scum is worth sacrificing themselves to save me. It's a negative EV as either alignment, so I lean town on that.

3) What do you think of this post, which imo comes very out of left field:

The reason it comes out of left field is that it follows a very clear progression on me/Cakez, bottom of 1270, 1273, 1278, 1280

It is very difficult for me to see this as anything besides mastina whiteknighting a town slot.

1) What. English motherfucker.
2) WIFOM. Look it up in the Wiki
3) You need to link to a post my dude.

Now Prism, have you ever been scum, and had a buddy eliminated? Did you go back and read their ISO to see how you looked? I bet you did. It's hard not to, right?

PEDIT:

Are you claiming to be scum with Cakez? If so... well, I'll take it.

[GreyICE]

Titus, Mathblade. This is our guaranteed scumflip. Our vig can shoot Cakez if he's such a concern, I don't even care anymore. It'd be a damn sight better than trying to hero vig Nacho. Our vig can shoot Quiet.

I think there's quite a few names being left off the list but right now I just want a goddamn red flip.

P.S. If you're reading my ISO because I'm dead, Math is not confirmed town. I'm starting to like him for town, but that's no reason he gets to live forever.

[GreyICE]

1) What. English motherfucker.

This sentence was gramatically correct and unambiguous, but perhaps you're unfamiliar with the term "spewing". I am not sure if it is on the Wiki for you to look up. I am asking why there was no followup on your end to the thought presented in 1532.

2) WIFOM. Look it up in the Wiki

Rather uninspired.

Now Prism, have you ever been scum, and had a buddy eliminated? Did you go back and read their ISO to see how you looked? I bet you did. It's hard not to, right?

I haven't flipped scum in my entire time onsite, actually. There's also good reason to believe Titus would remember mastina's posts quite well, but this entire push is very tenuous and intentionally blind imo, capitalizing instead on Titus playing poorly and painting over with a bit of creativity

PEDIT:

Are you claiming to be scum with Cakez? If so... well, I'll take it.

I am suggesting it is an extremely genuine reaction from Titus that strikes out from her scumplan in a very unexpected way.

Are you fucking serious.

Final Afternoon Vote Count

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (1): quiet
SirCakez (7): mastina, Dunnstral, Kitty Trauma Team, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalbear, Titus, MathBlade
mastina (9--BRONZED):

GreyICE,

Prism, Battle Mage, Tammy, SirCakez, borkjerfkin, Bell, Sangres, Spiffeh

Not voting (0):


Mod notes: 83/85 pages used (switching to post count here: 2080/2125 posts)

Battle Mage is V/LA until Monday evening
LLD is V/LA.

Flip incoming

THIS IS MY FOLLOWUP

SEE IT?

THAT'S MY FUCKING FOLLOWUP

YOU DON'T TALK TO SCUM, YOU FUCKING LYNCH THEM

[GreyICE]

Hey prism, you illiterate imbecile, is your fucking argument that you're scum?

YOUR ARGUMENT IS YOU'RE SCUM

FINE

VIG, PRISM IS CLAIMING

SCUM.

PLEASE VIG HIM TONIGHT. KTHXBAI

[GreyICE]

Go get shot, and get the fuck out of this thread

[GreyICE]

HAVE YOU HEARD OF HYPERBOLE YOU DENSE MOTHERFUCKER

I WAS SAYING MASTINA'S ARGUMENT WAS SUCH A CROCK OF SHIT IT WAS COMICALLY BAD, LIKE A PARODY OF A BAD ARGUMENT

DID YOU EVER NOTICE ME SUSPECTING YOU DAY 1? EVEN ONCE

HOLY CHRIST, YOU ARE SCUM. THAT'S IT. YOU ARE SCUM, AND I WAS RIGHT BY ACCIDENT. I WAS LITERALLY RIGHT BY ACCIDENT.

LLLLLOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLL

NOW I FINALLY KNOW HOW FATE FELT WHEN YOU ARE SO RIGHT YOU CAN'T BE WRONG ON ACCIDENT

[GreyICE]

Titus, Mathblade. This is our guaranteed scumflip. Our vig can shoot Cakez if he's such a concern, I don't even care anymore. It'd be a damn sight better than trying to hero vig Nacho. Our vig can shoot Quiet.

I think there's quite a few names being left off the list but right now I just want a goddamn red flip.

P.S. If you're reading my ISO because I'm dead, Math is not confirmed town. I'm starting to like him for town, but that's no reason he gets to live forever.

Interesting you say it’s a guaranteed scum flip here.

Titus is my top scumread but she’s been pretty bad the past few games. Cakez is my second.

By PoE she’s the top one. If it wasn’t because of wagon shit I would probably be on Cakez.

There’s possible worlds she is town but it’s so minuscule and she’s not even trying to hunt or listen I am beyond the point of caring. Linking me v Titus as guaranteed one scum doesn’t make sense at all.

MATHBLADE, SHE READ MASTINA"S ISO TO SEE HOW BAD IT"D MAKE HER LOOK

When you read Mastina's ISO, did you stop to think "wow, this part makes me look good? this part makes me look bad?" Did you carefully go over it and see how odd Mastina's interactions with you were? Or were you reading her ISO to find scum?

TITUS DOESN'T NEED TO READ MASTINA'S ISO TO FIND SCUM

[GreyICE]

DID YOU EVER NOTICE ME SUSPECTING YOU DAY 1? EVEN ONCE

No, in fact you never interacted with my slot at all other than to randomly chainsaw for mastina/Bell, which I again found weirdly out of place.

That's not even fucking true

[GreyICE]

rofl

MASTINA/TITUS/PRISM

I AM THAT GOOD

[GreyICE]

Is there just some fucking post from mastina in your little hangout like "oh shit, grey is on to us"?

[GreyICE]

YOU THINK I'M TOO PROUD TO TAKE A FREEBEE

BUT I'M NOT

I'M NOT PROUD

I'LL GO FISH MY TROPHIES OUT OF THE SEWER IF I NEED TO

I GET WINS HOWEVER I GET THEM

PEDIT:

Math, I am 99.95% sure we'll butt heads in future games. I enjoy playing with you. You're not shit. That being said, we'll probably butt heads and say nasty things to each other in future games. And you still won't be shit, but at that moment you will be. Like behind the curtain, I don't really get that worked up over these games for the most part, except in the moment. At the moment I said you were shit, there was some reason that was driving me absolutely utterly bananas, and I'm not promising I even remember what it was.

To my dying day I'll probably never understand your logic, but it gets too many results for me to dismiss.

[GreyICE]

I know we interacted at least once around the Bell thing. But honestly I can't know every player in a large. I don't. There's lots of slots I've never interacted with. Battle_Mage, Dunnstral, Bell, Quiet/DGB, Bork, Tammy, I know who they are vaguely, and they deserve sorting (Tammy for instance probably deserves some solid attention).

The thing is, I can eliminate one scum at a time. That's what I do. Mastina was scum, that's that. I can only lynch one scum day 1. I can only lynch one scum day 2. But if I do that for the first two days? Well, I'd say our chances of winning are much better.

I had a sneaking suspicion you're town, that's good enough for me. Most people I have a sneaking suspicion are town are in fact town (especially if I've found two of the scum, that's math).
And no, I don't get paranoid of people because "they beat me before." Most players here have beat me before. Quite a few players have a low opinion of me. If you are scum, and I lynch two scum days 1-2, then you get to deal with power roles for the rest of the game. Maybe you win, maybe you don't. It's certainly worse odds than if I don't do that.

If you think I play differently in small games, I do. I'm not a large player, usually. I signed up for this game because I like P_A and LLD convinced me. Some of my biggest derpfests have been in larges, even ones I won (hell, even ones I hard carried)


Now that I've talked to you honestly Prism, answer me this - you've read your buddy's ISO as scum to see what they said about you, I'm certain of it, right?
Do you normally do that as town? Like after a day 1 scumflip go back and see what the scum have to say about you - the one player you know is town? Do you read through their ISO with an eye to how they talk to you?

I think I've been pretty forthcoming with you, I'll be quite annoyed if you ignore me.

[GreyICE]

Bells posts when combined with their avatar are like custom-built to be the maximum amount of infuriating.

[GreyICE]

It's called being passionate. Your mom enjoyed it last night.

[GreyICE]

I've been following along. I was writing something up, but I got distracted by some other stuff that cropped up today.

Also I posted literally 49 hours ago. Don't get your tits in a twist.

[GreyICE]

Okay, I'm doing some work for people that basically doesn't really involve me, but kind of involves me, and saves someone from a deadline tomorrow.

Yes, this is a 'catchup coming' post, but one I'm personally annoyed by because I promised it.