Warehouse 13: The Mafia Game (Game Over)

[Tammy]

Hi!

Sangres - Which one of you is doing the comforting this game?

A little note: To anyone who played with me in the before time that has not played with me since, I'm not the same player I used to be. I am town; I am still readable, but if you had meta tells such as Tammy reacts x way if I call her scum when she's town, posts x amount if town, gets super emotionally invested if town, is aggressive as town, is only mad in a certain way as town, or any other pretty superficial thing that was part of my meta then, it will not apply now. (Hopefully, oh gods hopefully)

If you read me based on how I looked at the game, explained my reads, or those things that are mindset tells, those still apply. I'm still trying to find a good mafia/real life balance, so I'm hoping this game will look more like my play in Fakegod's Smoke-Filled game than popcorn where I got so invested and over posted that I'm still trying to catch up on work I got behind on.

Have not seen the show, still processing what I think about the artifacts and oh gods save me I have a town lean on spiffed already :/

[Tammy]

if the comb gives random killing powers which aren't the decision of the owner, does it even matter who gets it?

Yes, unless the powers state differently than the mechanics are described, you can choose to use the artifact or to transfer it to another player. Which means we should try to get them to town reads who gets the information for the artifact, can share what the negative effect is, and can transfer it as needed.

[Tammy]

I'm wondering if the person who received the other artifact should claim it though.

[Tammy]

oh gods save me I have a town lean on spiffed already :/

shhhhhh just let it happen

you say as you laugh maniacally at the screen

[Tammy]

I'm wondering if the person who received the other artifact should claim it though.

Two issues with this.

1) Scum pick who gets it and likely kept it.
2) Getting an artifact last night does not mean it came from scum. Artifacts were eligible for N0 pass.

Yeah I thought of the possibility that scum kept it, but in a world where scum gave it to town that might be an interesting tidbit of information.

Where did I miss they were eligible for N0 pass? I've read through the instructions three times (ENDLESS WONDER), including just now trying to make sure I understand the artifact mechanic and didn't see that. And if that's the case, never mind!

[Tammy]

Tammy I swear I'll redeem myself for Popcorn

That wasn't a dig on you for popcorn! But popcorn was a reminder to myself how out of balance I can get when I get too invested in a mafia game. It's one of the (many) reasons I stopped playing mafia, and it's something I can't let happen if I want to still play mafia.

@Tammy, if you're town, a mutual aid society would be most comforting!

Not entirely sure what this means! I just know right now one of you is probably unhappy, and I selfishly want it to be Nacho though that's also battling with how much I know he's burnt out on being town and wants to be scum again so badly. I am town, and I do hope if you guys are town that we'll be able to click though!

And going further I'm willing to publicly claim to have passed my artifact N0 in order to flavor claim to Bork, who was selected at random after removing several players from the list at my discretion.

Think I found what I misinterpreted or didn't think through when I read them. Didn't realize that "other distribution effects may be in play" meant that some people started with artifacts.

Kinda like prism for this but think it's even stupider than my early town lean on spiffeh.

Oh also I just realized the time. I need to go out for a walk while it's still a balmy 25 out.

[Tammy]

VOTE: prism

Not necessarily true re: always pro town.

For Tammy, you think flavor claiming before Day 1 even starts, is dumb to townread?

I'm hoping to get compensated in the form of a replacement, to be clear.

Personally, I'd rather skip the guesswork on the comb power, but that's just me.

On its face, yes.

Is it town indicative for you in this situation? That is a little unclear even though I'm strongly leaning that you are town after seeing your subsequent posts with the confirming, having their artifact and pointing out to bork about the scum team stuff. For me, I had a gut ping that I liked your entrance but nothing that I was ready to vocalize until you challenged my thought that whoever got the artifact last night should maybe claim it. I liked that you pointed out that there was a night zero artifact distribution that was not scum based. BUT that is kinda dumb for me to actually town read because in the world where you are scum, you've already started the game highlighting to bork that you gave him something, so you'd have to cover that right?

Is it impossible that scum would flavor claim at the start of the game thinking that it looks town in order to garner some town reads? Absolutely. You know this though, I mean it's in a similar vein as when nacho claimed the lightning rod in the flying scumsman in order for our slot to be townread and be able to do what we wanted to do at night. I think you are good at scum, though you may not like it, but I *think* your scum game and your approach to scum is different than that. BUT that is me thinking that I know something about your scum game when I know very little, and perhaps it is something you would do as scum to try to get townread at the beginning of the game, which is where I might be being dumb by thinking it's less likely.

Welcome to my brain; it's a fucking mess in here. I don't think that you were doubting that someone wouldn't town read someone just for flavor claiming at the start of game though, so if you didn't get what you were looking for in that mess up there, ask me another question.

What I do know for sure is that your revelation that there are more artifacts running around than the one mafia gets and does something with and the one we vote on has messed with my understanding of things a bit. I was trying to figure out a way to hold people accountable and perhaps catch liars, but that might be impossible actually.

Not entirely sure what this means! I just know right now one of you is probably unhappy, and I selfishly want it to be Nacho though that's also battling with how much I know he's burnt out on being town and wants to be scum again so badly. I am town, and I do hope if you guys are town that we'll be able to click though!

OOOOH! I think Nacho's recovered, but tlaloc proved more powerful than whichever demons he invoked. I won the rand, though I was fairly well resigned to being scum if it happened.
/quote]

I now understand what you're first post about mutual aid means, and yes I hope that there will be mutual aid. We can hold each other when things get too tough lol. AND I think you not understanding my original point is a positive in your favor. I hope. I kiiiiinda think if you were scum then the response wouldn't have been the mutual aid one. I think. But I also think that Nacho told you one of the reasons I recognized you as scum in Battlestar because I think you'd kinda reflexively do it again, and I know that he had a pretty detailed plan with you for misbronzing me if you guys rolled scum, which I know he said he can't do now because he tole me about it. Anyway, I liked it and I feel weird right now that I keep having good feels about people and I'm about to go all leap of faith lol.

I kinda skimmed while I was out for a walk, will have to go back and read that maybe if I feel like touching that brew haha with a ten foot pole.

[Tammy]

Oh wait, I had their fucking artifact and gave it to someone else N0, right.

so scum had 2 artifacts

they sent 1 artifact to be publicly voted - this comb thing.

and they sent the other artifact to Prism (who may or may not be scum)

Prism got this artifact and sent it to Bork.

Any1 have information that challenges this line of events?

I'm wondering if the person who received the other artifact should claim it though.

Two issues with this.

1) Scum pick who gets it and likely kept it.
2) Getting an artifact last night does not mean it came from scum. Artifacts were eligible for N0 pass.

Yeah, prism's earlier post indicate that they started with it.

And scum wouldn't be able to pass night 0 and then that person be able to pass night 0.

[Tammy]

My initial thought was that math looked townie due to the push on prism and the focus on hunting over trying to get yourself confirmed without realizing that prism was hunting in the process of that, and that reminded me of the game where math thought I was scum and focused on a misunderstanding and didn't let up. I don't buy into the scum qt response thing. I don't know it seems like something I might respond to if someone accused me of it. But i was taken a bit aback by him considering the prism could be town who was excited view because it cut at his scum read which seemed to be based on attempting to confirm without hunting. And I thought that when math blade gets a whiff of something, he's kinda more dogged on that. But that is based on exactly one game of experience and the description of his game years ago, and I could have a completely wrong understanding of him as a player and even if that was him at one time it doesn't mean that's still him. So help here if I'm completely wrong in my understanding.

Completely null on LLD's attack there. When I was skimming while walking I had a knee jerk this is scum response, but I'm not sure if it's oh for sure it's scum or if I just had a knee jerk aversion to the aggression, and I knee jerk almost always think someone is scum when they do the HERE'S ALL THE SCUM THIS IS TOO EASY thing. On the one hand, it's a very good scum approach to come in very aggressive and make a good impression while setting people off balance if you want to get the artifact, which as scum you do want to do right? And then on the other she probably would want it as town too especially if it's kill power. I went back to FGO though because I thought I remembered her arguing to become the master thingy day one, but she point out argued for why she was the best to get it rather than here which feels like she wants it but isn't coming out and saying it. Though she might walking in snow and reading means I could have missed something. So, this is to say I got my eye on you, quiver and shake in your boots while I waffle over here.

Pooky feels bad

[Tammy]

I am not shitposting I have already telegraphed to Tammy that I'm town which is a very good use of my time tyvm

Just waiting on the rest of you to stop being dramatic and accept it too!

@Tammy, how are you feeling about this?

Cautiously optimistic!

[Tammy]

Guys you had to read the instructions to give the confirmation phrase in order to confirm.

There can't be this many of you that just do not know how the mechanics work. It is not possible that I understand or believe I understand the mechanics better; we're not in that big an upside down world.

Some of you have to be faking it.

[Tammy]

The above was not prompted by Kuribo's post but by Pooky's.

[Tammy]

On the one hand, it's a very good scum approach to come in very aggressive and make a good impression while setting people off balance if you want to get the artifact, which as scum you do want to do right?

um if scum wanted the artifact, they could just take the artifact themselves right?

But to answer your question:

"Two Artifacts are presented to the Mafia at the start of the Night phase. They pick one to keep by the end of the Night phase (along with a recipient for it, among their faction or elsewhere) and one that will go to the game thread at the start of the Morning, where the living players will vote on the recipient of that Artifact decided by plurality. The Morning will end if a majority vote is reached for the Artifact recipient."

They can only keep one. That doesn't mean that they wouldn't also want the other one if it might have a benefit to the town.

And, we don't know if scum know what the effects are unless I'm lol missing that from the instructions too. It looks like the recipient is the one who gain that knowledge, so the scum may be choosing blind on what they keep or give away and what they leave for the morning vote.

[Tammy]

But to answer your question:

"Two Artifacts are presented to the Mafia at the start of the Night phase. They pick one to keep by the end of the Night phase (along with a recipient for it, among their faction or elsewhere) and one that will go to the game thread at the start of the Morning, where the living players will vote on the recipient of that Artifact decided by plurality. The Morning will end if a majority vote is reached for the Artifact recipient."

They can only keep one. That doesn't mean that they wouldn't also want the other one if it might have a benefit to the town.

And, we don't know if scum know what the effects are unless I'm lol missing that from the instructions too. It looks like the recipient is the one who gain that knowledge, so the scum may be choosing blind on what they keep or give away and what they leave for the morning vote.

ok but if they want the haircomb thing

couldnt they just take the haircomb instead of sending the haircomb to the town and giving the other artifact to prism?

And, we don't know if scum know what the effects are unless I'm lol missing that from the instructions too. It looks like the recipient is the one who gain that knowledge, so the scum may be choosing blind on what they keep or give away and what they leave for the morning vote.

im like assuming the scum know what the 2 artifacts do

but like if they don't know what the artifacts do, why the heck would they send the artifact to a townie ?

I already responded to the prism thing. Prism can correct me if I'm wrong, but their post 29 indicates that they started with it.

Besides, night 0 was for passing, in which scum decided what to do with two artifacts - kept or passed one - and sent one for morning.

You're assuming that somehow people were able to make multiple actions with the same artifact last night. That in night 0, scum handed prism an artifact and somehow, maybe with a swift action, prism was able to hand it off to Bork.

Either Prism is town who started with an artifact and handed it to bork.

Or Prism is scum who started with an artifact and handed it to bork

Or Prism is scum who sent one of the two artifacts they were presented to Bork. (Would be funny if they were partners here, but I don't think that's in either of their scum plays.)

So there's the possibility that Prism's thing is completely separate from the two artifacts that began the night.

And they likely don't know what it does before they actually have it. Just because they choose one doesn't mean that they don't want to keep the other artifact out of town's hands. One of the two is going to be up for grabs in the morning; it doesn't mean they're not going to want it especially not knowing what it does.

[Tammy]

in b4 I'm the one misunderstanding everything lol

[Tammy]

But I also think that Nacho told you one of the reasons I recognized you as scum in Battlestar because I think you'd kinda reflexively do it again, and I know that he had a pretty detailed plan with you for misbronzing me if you guys rolled scum, which I know he said he can't do now because he tole me about it. Anyway, I liked it and I feel weird right now that I keep having good feels about people and I'm about to go all leap of faith lol.

re BSG game, if he ever told me, I don't remember, so I'm gonna ask.

And yeah, he had an elaborate plan, but hadn't shared details with me before he got drunk and spilled it to you. He thought I'd be the perfect hydra partner for whatever the shenanigans were, though. Probably won't happen in a sangres game, now. Which is probably good for my nerves.

Leap of faith is exactly what I'm doing with my vote. I know (better than I used to) that Prism can be incredibly town-feeling as scum. But this doesn't feel incredibly town. It just feels...town.

I agree? Though as I’m reading through my own character and some flavor on the show along with artifacts in general, which I need to watch now, I’m starting to wonder why pass it off night 0? I’m still on the side of town due to me thinking that the act and the beginning is not prism’s scum game or at least not my idea of prism’s scum game, but the question mark is not something I’m gonna jump down that rabbit hole yet until Bork slows up and hopefully the issue will resolve itself,

[Tammy]

I like the idea of accountability, think games with items or games like marketplace that roles are passed around are very often lost because town did not hold people accountable,

Passing it to a second person might not give us that clearance though because people can pass it to their partner for verification.

I also don’t think we should be like you have to pass it because that person could also be scum whether the first was town, it’s expecting everyone to accept this which people aren’t going to do, and it’s plain no fun to vote for someone to get a role because we The they’re town and then go nope can’t use it,

I’m all for accountability, but I don’t really like that kind of leash. I’ve been debating how much they should tell us about the artifact. Whatever the negative thing is might be best kept away from scum.

[Tammy]

#192: You called?

I was gonna day that’s like me and bell I think and that would get real boring, but I didn’t want to hurt your feelings if you were sensitive about it so I just chuckled to myself.

[Tammy]

Yah, but mafia could just pass it among themselves and lie anyway

Leashing could work but it's tricky considering we don't necessarily want scum to know who has what artifacts. And considering passing isn't public knowledge. So, say, we all vote to give the comb to LLD, and we all then insist she give it to Spiffeh. If they're scum together, (and I'm using them as examples because I'm townreading them), then either the pass never occurs or they simply lie later.

Leashing adds another layer of consensus voting, (which complicates an already complicated game) but I do see an upside when it comes to mass claim later. Ie, "I have a guilty on Pooky" "bull crap, the artifact I sent you doesn't do that."

pedit: I was gonna say maybe someone who's better at mechanics than me could weigh in but I think Tammy explained where I'm at better than I could


-k

I actually liked your explanation better.

[Tammy]

bless

[Tammy]

I use art to cope

Furthermore if you’re claiming someone similar to Superman (intentionally vague) this claim doesn’t work as he literally couldn’t give his artifact away. It was stuck to him.

Not superman



though a search of discobolus and warehouse 13 does bring up his disc as an object but it doesn't seem to be attached to anyone.

[Tammy]

Except, the sculpture that Prism photoshopped their laptop into is Myron's Discobolus, an ancient Greek sculpture of a discus thrower.

It's not Atlas.

[Tammy]

I have identified one (1) scum player so far

Good job Spiffeh!

I feel quite good about Prism being town but that's it for things I feel strongly about.

I'm kinda leaning town on mathblade for being for being so laser focused on the prism/bork thing. What do you think there?

[Tammy]

being town with the love of my life isn't the WORST thing in the world.

buddying will get you everywhere!

[Tammy]

Not sure what to think about Prism yet

MathBlade has been transparently town to me from jump and I'm not thrilled with there already seeming to be somewhat of a consensus scum read there

He's clearly not the most charismatic player itg (no offense!) and I feel that's being used to put him in the hot seat already and there is absolutely no scum motivation to start and maintain this back and forth with Prism so early on

I like the passion and I like the focus even if I don't agree with the direction. Had a minor quibble a bit back that I mentioned, but I don't think that matters overmuch. So, yeah I lean town there.

For Prism, right now I feel like the approach doesn't make sense from scum? That townread on Sangres aside, which I agree looks a bit odd, though I liked them having the town read, putting them null, then coming back to a townread, so I just ignored that bit of oddity. I think that while they'd probably be frustrated with Math's approach anyway that if they were scum, there'd be a kind of pointed interaction instead of just kinda ragey frustration if that makes sense?

[Tammy]

Although my view of Prism as town doesn't really line up with that easy of a town read on nacho hrm.

[Tammy]

Although my view of Prism as town doesn't really line up with that easy of a town read on nacho hrm.

To clarify this. One thing I've noticed in the games that I've spectated is that very often the more familiarity Prism has with someone, the higher expectations I think they have, and the more kind of raking them over the coals Prism does.

This isn't always the case, but it's just a little something that I've noticed. I'm not sure that it overrides my thought that this isn't how Prism approaches this as scum holistically though.

[Tammy]

Damn you nacho!

[Tammy]

I'm on my phone so pretty limited, but the short of it is that sangres would make a bigger show of paranoia here, which hasn't happened yet. They also respect my towngame too much to fight on my behalf out of the gate like this, let alone give me the artifact. Hard town.

Playstyle it's nice to have diversity.

Not really digging this townread???

We're pushing you to get an artifact early and tbh I'm not even sure what that artifact does. We don't have to make a big show of paranoia because we can always go back out a townread.

Where's that respect for our scum games?

Ffery makes more of a show of uncertainty here, your response tackles positioning which is a completely separate issue and doesn't matter.

Neither of you are bad at the alignment but I am scared of neither of you.

I keep starting to reply to your initial point and this one and keep deleting it. My point only becomes relevant if I decide I think they're scum, so if that happens, I'll come back to this. Mostly just typing this to get the thought off my chest so I stop dwelling on the point.

[Tammy]

Ffery makes more of a show of uncertainty here, your response tackles positioning which is a completely separate issue and doesn't matter.

Neither of you are bad at the alignment but I am scared of neither of you.

This tracks.

And Tammy, this is part of the reason I'd like to roll scum soon! So many people now only know my scum game as the husk of a mafia player that I became at the end of hiatus - not everyone knows the might of House (insert name of whatever the fuck house it was when we got snowstorm mislynched after he got a cop guilty on me). I hate that people only know me for my valleys - I want people to see what Peakcho is capable of.

Gods do I wish that site was still up and that more people appreciated the awesomeness of the symp role as we ran it. Probably some of my best showing in a scum role ever just because of the freedom.

Kinda want to help kitty team out here, but sitting back makes things readable. Might need a hug or a support group or something later, so I'll maybe provide that lol.

Finally home so I can go more indepth.

First I want to preface this by saying I'm intentionally playing more abrasively. As mentioned before, diversity is nice and I'm tired of playing friends after Iceland.

Second, at the risk of echoing the Elo in Iceland, most players who have posted feel town (Least town players to me are MathBlade, LLD, Dunnstral, all of whom have plausible reason to react these ways as town though Math continues to be ???. Spiffeh's reaction to Math is A+++ content regardless of what he is). I guess I haven't really read much Cakez/Pooky either.

Now that I think about it quiet's opening post was pretty rough.

Although my view of Prism as town doesn't really line up with that easy of a town read on nacho hrm.

So with your bit about the high expectations, you're incorporating reads from Undertale and a bit of Xenoblade and maybe Chara's Folly/2181-things like my demands of Nacho as Replica, and my high demands of Hectic, Chara, and catboi in Chara's Folly. I don't really have any expectations like those of any of the players at this table, and I think my last two games with Nacho reinforce why the bar is very low. Texturing reads realtime with the "Wait it's this play" is super basic and I wouldn't put stock into it.

My sangres read comes from ffery atm, who I've only really seen as scum. This read has nothing to do with her meeting a certain level of townplay, but everything to do with how I think she chooses to react to me making a power move mechanically, and what she thinks

I would expect

after Iceland. She's also dead wrong about how strong of a town player I am, but in her mind I'm a "scumhunting dynamo" and not someone who should be given a solid position to lead with. Hard town slot, easily.

To be blunt, it's not that anything about her tone or whatever is outside of her scumrange, or that her positioning is disadvantageous as scum. She's just wrong that she would do this as scum, because her mind in interacting with me would be completely elsewhere.

You mentioned something about how this isn't what you've seen of my scumgame, and you're right. I'm on record as valuing a high degree of flexibility in my scumgames, I categorize my scumplay focusing around eliminating any sort of risk and positioning very safely, and have yet to fakeclaim something besides VT

ever

.

But I'd would burn this tell in a heartbeat without question, my meta record exists to be abused, as quiet recently learned the hard way.

Bork review the negative again and think, it's extremely useful as a counter to a certain role

I'm sorry if I'm being dense but I'm trying to think of the positive utility of what you're talking about other than "unable to get snowed by Cabd in the purple room this time"

There is a very niche but extremely powerful usage but I don't think it's that important to get on the same page about atm.

Now that I have more votes I'm down to swap back as sangres suggested

VOTE: Prism

Yeah, for the expectations thing. It's actually something that I noticed a long time ago, right after you and nacho hydrad for the first time. I think it was that game that nacho, mastin and gin, did that all night jam session or something, and from an outside perspective nacho was super super town, but you were really super weary, and I started my theory then that you tended to not town read easily people that you had some familiarly/expectations for. It didn't always hold because in midsummer's you townread regfan without a lot of coal raking, so then I had a theory that you townread people's posts that you could understand/appreciate on a logic level. So when yeah you outed yourself as replica, and I said oh that makes sense, it was because you raked nacho over the coals and town read chara there and it fit the theory I was building of you as a player in my head. And then yes, the other examples you mentioned reinforced that bit. Xenoblade doesn't really fit in that or at least I don't remember why it should. I'm thinking about ways you interacted with Nacho in some of the undertale games, ways you interacted with catboi and chara in that undertale game, ways you interacted with peta in damn that normal game where all the town had the power roles but scum had none. And I developed the theory that you were extra on guard for people you were familiar/close with/had expectations for.

I like the thought about positioning!

For what I was thinking about your scum game, it's not the flexibility thing or never not claiming VT, but more about my thought that you're a more conventional scum player in that I don't think it's your style to try to get town read at the beginning of the game by flavor claiming and then claiming to have sent something to another player and then having the reaction that you had towards the reactions that people had to you. That sentence is garbage I know, but I hope it conveys what I think. I think you're a bit methodical and image conscious, and while I *think* you'd be okay doing something that makes you look bad and get you limned early if you think it would do something for your team overall I guess, but I just don't think the way you approached this day makes sense for that possibility. (I did just look at the Iceland game to make sure that my thought there wasn't garbage, and while yeah you look really natural there, I don't think that point is negated.)

And ah I thought your point was based on ferry's behavior as scum in that normal, so that point is probably nevermind but maybe not, might come back to this.

Gonna stop here because we just drank some and I'm not sure if I make sense if I continue.

pedit: I have been debating whether or not to limit this phase and shut up. Earlier I wanted to bitch at people for posting too much and thought they were scum for it (pooky, lld) but now I'm wondering if these early pages while we're figuring out who should get the artifact aren't actually quite fucking important, and for myself once the weekend is over, I probably won't be posting as much anyway so.

[Tammy]

Not sure what to think of titus and interaction with math bland there :/

[Tammy]

we don't care

[Tammy]

we don't care

Excuse u

<3

[Tammy]

we don't care

Excuse u

<3

I wish i could properly convey how i feel about this at the moment, but I can't. so my original, we don't care as bitchy as it sounds suffices.

[Tammy]

did you just wake up with that epiphany or?

[Tammy]

i've entered the realm of bitchy drunk, don't mind me, I'm going to sleep now

[Tammy]

Cakez giving out town vibes.

But I will be throwing away all my reads because I'm going to inevitably get suckered by someone that knows how to push the I'm town button. Hell, it's more likely that town don't push the town button so early because they're town and not terribly insecure.

I'm against it. The last scum game Prism had with me (FGO) they were very good at faking a town mind set. The first thing they did when they got into the game was social engineering Bork and through him, everybody else.
Call it paranoia or the "I don't like to give people things that they want because I'm a jerk" Bell personality quirk.

?

FGO I don’t think Bork played in and prism posted on their main after two posts and was replaced, so I’m not sure of your point here.

Also wanted to respond to another post but I’m hungover and can’t find it now.

[Tammy]

And how am I doing that?
The entire argument I am scum is based on I didn’t react immediately despite a flu and roleplaying with friends and my reaction time.
If I dissuade that I am spamming and running up post count and therefore “feeding people”.
If I don’t respond immediately then I am scum for not responding fast enough.
It’s lose lose.

What do you think of Sangres?

1. No the entire argument isn't based on that.
2. You don't need to respond to every attack against you.
3. You don't need to respond to every attack against you immediately either.
4. You're full of shit.

I think Sangres is town. I also think Nacho is intentionally towning it up by going on about his missing being scum in a wifomy way because it makes me think, "Ahah, as scum he'd never be this upfront, I see hope" but then, I kind of think, well actually, recently I seem to have seen an example of someone doing something like this so maybe I shouldn't get so excited.

It's a wifom tunnel in Bell world.

Your point by pint here is weird because often people feel a natural need to defend themselves, and he was literally being called scum because he didn’t respond quickly enough and then responded weirdly to the accusation he was in the scum qt.

Your interaction feels weird here, feels like you’re doing your due diligence to not look like your partnered.

Yeah, I actually think as scum nacho would play up not getting scum if they got it. Not saying he’s scum for it just think it’s entirely possible as scum he says it too.

[Tammy]

Tammy, how do you feel about me sheeping you on Prism?

It made me paranoid that I was wrong about prism because I’m a crazy person who freaks out when supported, but then I decided it didn’t really matter that much. Other than that it matched what your proposed approach to the game was, and I, not sure there’s anything alignment relevant about it.

[Tammy]

#348: I was talking about what Prism was doing here. From FGO I realized they're the planning type that's good at getting town read as scum and I know they want to be town read here. There's nothing wrong with it. But my attitude is that if someone wants something you have to ask yourself why and I don't know why. But it's not something they should be town read for. I lack information, people are making decisions based on the limited information they have (or scum are voting for them either or). I don't want Prism getting the artifact for the aforementioned ("I'm a jerk," "I'm paranoid") reasons.
#349: It's a natural emotional need to defend yourself, but it's monkey brain social stuff. It's not critical thinking which I don't think Mathblade is short of as a human being. I don't know what Math town looks like.

You've correctly deduced I'm not partners with Mathblade, but instead of calling a spade a spade, you called it a heart.

Uh if you got that I said your not partnered with math that was lack of clarity on my part. I’ve been townkeanung math, but your interaction weirds me out such that it feeels like someone trying to not sound partner and it makes me suspect both of you.

[Tammy]

Oh nachgres do you have any thoughts on spiffeh?

[Tammy]

Well at least that's one less slot I have to waffle on! Two if the partner one is correct.

Tried to find the "Are you my mason partner" meme but failed.

VOTE: LLD

[Tammy]

Glorified prod dodge. Most likely won't get a chance to post again until tomorrow evening.

Kinda read some bits here and there in between grading today, but not really.

Don't have a read on Dunnstral. Gonna be a bit more careful with that read after popcorn.

Do like some of the bell posts I read today.

Agree with 702's take on the artifact.

Oh Prism - I like mechanics, but I do not always really understand mechanics or the best ways to use some roles, especially ones I'm unfamiliar with.

okay tomorrow tomorrow

[Tammy]

Anyway, I feel like I've posted enough today and want to respect the deadline/page count so I'm forcing myself to stay away til tomorrow. I'm extremely curious as to what Tammy thinks of Dunnstral and GreyICE and her general thoughts on the game. I think she said she'd be back tonight so hopefully I'll have some phenomenal Tammy content upon my return.

Yeah, sorry you're going to be disappointed. I'm sorta kinda keeping up right now, but midterm grades are due and I'm behind and have literally done nothing except grade and go to meetings the past couple days. My brain is mush and I have no patience or brain power for mafia. BUT my plan is to do something tomorrow while my car is getting serviced before grading and meetings begin, so I'm not a total burnout. (I'm not sure how great my thoughts are going to be because most everything I've read while also trying to grade has gotten a shrug don't care about most of what has been posted, maybe I'll feel differently tomorrow though!)

Also Nachgres - I'll respond to the question you asked me about Titus tomorrow then too!

[Tammy]

So you guys get me until my car is done being serviced. I think I'm in a good spot with getting caught up with grading and not being so burnt out by it, so I might come back tonight if i have the patience. I'm gonna try to get all my thoughts out in one post, so sorry for the length, but some of you are forgetting that our pages are limited and you should stop spamming one liners (Hi Cakez Hi!). There are some pages I haven't read, so if I miss something, let me know, but seeing how little I care for the pages I did read around the ones I missed I'm not overly concerned I missed something groundbreaking.

Anyway earlier I was thinking that maybe I was forcing a town read on someone that I shouldn't be, and I was wondering if that someone was Prism, but after recent posts, I don't think I am. That town read still feels good.

Mastina - I don't understand your scum read on prism for a couple reasons. One is the point against them saying that they're being more abrasive this game on purpose and your argument is that 9 times out of 10, that comes from scum. However, you called my first post town, and my first post talked about meta and how some of my meta didn't apply anymore. I actually expected to get scum read for that post by the people it was directed to, but you called it town. And for Prism, I can't imagine anyone intimate with Prism to be all like Prism is never abrasive, so scum. And two, are you really trying to make a flavor argument for Prism scum? I don't think for a second, the mods make this game breakable by flavor, and if scum Prism was given that as a fake claim, probably, which means it wasn't meant to be alignment indicative anyway.

Not sure what to think of titus and interaction with math bland there :/

could you talk to me about this?

i'm townreading too many people and i liked titus's interaction there but titus could very well be a weak spot.

Oh nachgres do you have any thoughts on spiffeh?

pretty firmly townreading him at this point in the read.

Thanks for the spiffeh read. I'm feeling pretty damn good about him being town too at this point, so it's nice that you've provided backup!

For Titus, uh I felt like the interaction felt wrong at the same level that Bell's interaction felt wrong. I think that Bell is probably town now regardless of the pedantic mansplaining me on how I felt about their interactions, and I think that Bell's push there feels pretty similar to the shelly push in xenoblade, so is probably town. But with Titus I'm much less sure, and the interaction felt kind of mother hennish in a way that didn't feel natural. The bit that felt like it was the type of "Get in line or I'll policy lynch you" when I don't think math has been doing anything really wrong here. I think he's been put in defensive mode here, which makes him hard to read, but nothing that's policy level, you know. Mathblade was another one I was worried I was forcing a town read on, but I don't really find anything scummy about him. Maybe not as tunneling as I thought he was as town, but I have exactly one game of experience, so I don't know what to expect there. I do think things like "GreyIce is town because I understand him" weirds me out because like GreyIce is an intelligent human being who can string sentences together and I can't really buy that reasoning as a real read, but I still think he's probably town. Spiffeh being so convinced there makes me just a tad worried about Spiffeh actually. But apparently any interaction or read with Mathblade makes me worried about both involved, and I'm not really sure what to make of that.

But one thing I was thinking about this morning was this post:

Ok. I realized my error and read deeper. I think that we should look at two phases with different leaders. People good at townblocking should lead at assigning artifacts. Those good at scumhunting should lead bronzing. These are separate people. I'd defer to Tammy on the artifact (assuming she's town) and LLD (same assumption) leading the afternoon phase. It's harder to scumhunt here without pressure.

Catching up.

On it's face this post isn't problematic, but she has LLD as the person who should lead the afternoon phase because good at scumhunting, but at the time LLD had scumread Mathblade (and wanted him dead asap), Titus, maybe Prism, maybe Spiffeh. Titus was town reading Math, there's Titus herself, and there wasn't reads on Spiffeh or Prism given yet. It just feels odd to me to say that LLD should be in charge of leading the afternoon when the scum reads don't add up. I might be seeing too much in this which I guess could have just been a side thought, but that also doesn't match up to the treatment of LLD once she claimed Mason. Now I get 100% people being concerned that it's a fake claim, but the turn in hostility with things like LLD is playing like shit (which really can we just as a group remember we're not 5 year old asshats trying to make everyone feel like shit???), that she just wants control, and the tantrum bit felt odd and I’m not sure what to do with it. I don’t like her blaming mathblade for taking up her scumhunting space when there are others who are actually making throw away posts that some of that should be directed to.

I don’t feel good I don’t know if that answered your question cuz I kinda just ended up rambling.

But if you're scum putting in work this game I'm still going to slam dunk you just FYI

This post here I also thought about this morning. Kinda knee jerk didn’t like it when you posted it but I wasn’t sure why. I think why I don’t is that it feels purple prosish in a sense. And ffery’s posts haven’t hit town paean more yet, so that knee jerk there just feared it’s ugly head this morning. I guess I also don’t quite get what you guys are getting out of the house questioning Dunn over him saying you guys were getting town read too easily either.

Okay my car is done, so I’m stopping here. I might have more to say about the above. Will come back later when I’m at home.

[Tammy]

"purple prose"! That's one of your nacho scumtells. Purple or not, we're town. I think he was ribbing you because of how much he wanted us to rand scum and get a chance to cross off his bucket list item.

Regarding my paean or lack thereof, I have a basic and fundamental level of discomfort in playing right now, but the only way past that is to get back on the horse. It's related to both my most recent games, and that's all I'm gonna say about that because there's an inflated ego on the line, and it's not mine!

Nacho's scumreading Dunn enough to vote him, which makes me coming to a conclusion about Dunn a priority. I pulled a thread in one of his posts and it unraveled from there. I'm not good at letting go of things once they've caught my attention. From the last post I made in reply to him, you should be able to tell that my Dunn read has headed townward.

This is the first time Nacho and I have hydra'd since the Forest Fire game. I'm feeling a little shaky after Tenet. I want to lean on him, but I know his availability is limited. You likely have a better idea than I do when we'll get our next chance to sync. I'm planning to play fully solo today and until he's back and we can hash things out.

Purple prose is one of my scum tells for nacho, but it's weird in that it's a kind of cadence thing for me, and I'm not even sure that I know what that looks like anymore. I haven't seen him as scum in years, and xenoblade is the only game we've played together not in a hydra together in years. I didn't want to start playing with him until I knew that I could keep my emotions in check in mafia, and not pull the game into a shithole. I do think you guys are town more likely than not, but I don't have the confidence of Tenet yet. Maybe it won't come as easy as it did that game, and I completely understand being a bit more uncomfortable due to the last couple games. I think he was ribbing me a bit because of the bucket list, but he was also ribbing me a bit because he's let me know that if he thinks I'm scum in a game he's not gonna let me squeak by him like he has in the past. I know what he was trolling me about, and I'm sure he'll make fun of me when he sees that it caused me to go hrm a few days later.

What you said about your Dunn interaction is kind of what I was hoping to hear, and what I was considering on my way back home today. My earlier thought was that I didn't understand why you cared about what was a rather common throwaway line, and I was concerned it was something that looked good to try to scum hunt. On my way home, I was considering it again and was like well Spiffeh made a case, Nacho talked about Dunn maybe being scum, so maybe it was just a way to try to get into his head. So it's nice that my driving thoughts matched up with what you said here.

I don't have a read on Dunn myself. I didn't think he'd done anything overly scummy in his first few posts and his posts read okay to me? That is not saying much. In popcorn his posts read okay to me? but in Popcorn there were a couple small things that bugged me that I let go/ignored which I shouldn't have. I know that you guys are starting to lean town on him now, but I'm still in eh his posts are fine, but I don't have an actual read there. I just reread through his iso and yeah, I just don't know.

You might have said this before, but are you guys leaning/still leaning town on math blade? Or do you guys have any issue with the people I've thought are town? Something feels off for me this game, and I'm not sure if it's the reads I'm approaching at or if it's the game state. I think I have the most concerns about Titus, Mastina, Cakez, Pooky and quiet but it doesn't feel right that it's the scum team.

[Tammy]

There's a lot of mildly suspicious slots that REALLY don't want to go mathblade, or won't discuss mathblade, but are a-okay going titus, so that means we go mathblade today

What is you ur read on titus? You also talked about math being survivalistic which battle mage has picked up, can you talk about where?

I do think you guys are town more likely than not, but I don't have the confidence of Tenet yet

?

weren't you hydra'd with him in tenet lol

It would be silly if I were talking to nacho, sure, but I was talking to ffery whom I had a very strong town read on day one of tenet (due to ffery sorry Bork)

[Tammy]

Hmmm actually dunnstral calling mathblade survivalistic feels in a similar vein to when he called my theory on the Norfolk pushers rabid defense of Norfolk in popcorn. I really don’t like the “scummy people aren’t talking about math but are okay with eliminating titus so we go math” post. And him telling lld he would have voted her for the artifact even if she didn’t claim felt a bit cringe. Does this mean that dunnstral is scum? I’m not sure. Should I shhh shhh shhh let it happen like I let my townread of spiffeh happen?

I hate battle mages recent attack on math too because he’s falling in with that same survivalistic narrative, and oh look he voted some scum reads in a mafia game. I had been kinda town reading BM’s early posts, and I thought he was the other mason, but I Hunk I misinterpreted that looking back and his posts just really don’t look real. So yeah don’t know there.

With kitty I’ve been a bit wait and see. A part of me thinks if scum kuribo would not pass up an opportunity to go all screaming death clan, caps lock drama, ride the rodeo into town yeehaw drama shout up the pages when lld was here and doing it. So, I’ve just been watching there.

Ffery - I forgot that I meant to tell you that yeah nacho is working way too much right now, and had a dumb overnight day slipped in which always fucks everting up, I imagine that whether you or the game will hear from him today depends on if he works late and how tired he is when he gets home and what time he works tomorrow. I hear you on Pooky. I haven’t seen him as town and you have, so maybe there’s a difference? He doesn’t really feel any different to me than the last two times I saw him as scum. The towniest thing he’s done so far is make that image.

Thought I had more but I think I’m going to crash now hopefully.

[Tammy]

Greetings Gentlebeings!

I am almost caught up on grading and actually no longer paying the sleep gods for the weekend deficit I incurred, both of which have me in a really good mood.

I'm sorry you're feeling depressed Titus. <3 Depression and mafia don't mix well. i know.

Anyway, I'm feeling a lot better about Kitty. No longer in wait and see mode there I don't think. I've liked mala's recent posts quite a lot and really like the way that she was looking at and analyzing the morning.

Think I see a reason that pooky is probably town? Maybe?

I do not know on Titus. I do think she's scummy, but I don't know if it just Titus doing things I don't like or understand which would be on brand or if it's Titus being scum. I still do not like the way Titus is interacting with and around Mathblade, and that feels off, and complaining about not being able to scum hunt with constrained pages feels off too. We have 30 pages left to go, so that feels off. With Math it's just uh yeah I get policying people. I've happily policied people before who were actively behaving in detrimental ways to the town, and I don't get that with Math. So, it just feels odd. I get taking a more pragmatic approach, like this game is getting polarized about the math situation and the people who scum read him probably aren't going to stop, so might be best to remove the distraction so that town can focus, which is where I find myself a lot of the time and there yet because I think we can find scum instead.

I wish that spiffeh was talking about someone other than just dunn. Who I'm also unsure on.

Think my biggest suspects right now are battle mage and unquiet though.

You'll have more of my attention once my work is done and I get back home, so stay tuned for the next installment of Tammy's Day One Mediocre Thoughts.

pedit: oh yeah forgot about mastina. Don't know about her yet either :/

[Tammy]

Not a

girl

hammer.

[Tammy]

Tbh I usually leave Tammy up to sangres

Unless they are both scum then we ducked

M

You don't have to worry about me <3

And I don't think at the moment you need to worry about Sangres.

Also pooky has my <3 for also thinking the fun of the game is the point not the winning.

Also hesitating on Titus, I just legit don't know. :/

[Tammy]

So is that a hammer or no?

I really want the weekend to mindmeld and wall with Nacho about this game day. :/

Pretty sure, not.

Kindaaaaa would prefer to go quiet I think.

[Tammy]

I mostly just want to know what Nacho has to say about Tammy and when he can be 100% sure if she's town or scum.

You can read me yourself!

(If I were scum, he'd have already caught me though and I'd probably already be hammered. I'm not joking. I haven't rolled scum in three years, except in a hydra with him last year and we only played a day, and he promised me that he'd not let me go. I don't know how to start a game strong as scum, was always my weakness and he'd be all over that. He might not be 100% at me town right now, but if I were scum he'd be 100% on that.)

So is that a hammer or no?

I really want the weekend to mindmeld and wall with Nacho about this game day. :/

Pretty sure, not.

Kindaaaaa would prefer to go quiet I think.

Quiet's getting replaced. That actually kinda complicates things depending on the skills of the replacing player.

HRM.

Are you waffling on Titus at all?

[Tammy]

2. Tammy - gtmh scum, nothing done since midmorning

Subject: TENET - Game Over

Hey Almost50 who is scum?

So far I only have Pooky & Imperium below Null, bur I do have 5 nulls so any of them could be scum too. (in other words, not you/unwnd/Brian/Gypyx/HP)

Tammy is the easiest player to read ever lol. How do you have Imperium at below Null?

The reason I made that face.

[Tammy]

LLD - I know that you don't often like to talk about town reads, thought you sometimes will!, could you say something about why you have Dunn at 75% town?

[Tammy]

Town: {Bell, sangres, Tammy, Mathblade, Kitty Trauma Team}
Townlean: {SirCakez, borkjerfkin, Prism, LLD*}
Null: {Pooky, mastina, Titus, GreyICE}
Scumlean: {quiet, Battle Mage}
Scum: {Dunnstral}

Spoiler:

*If LLD is mason, she's obviously confirmed town. This is where she is in the reads list if she's lying about the mason claim. Because apparently that's a thing.

Random thoughts:
I made this reads list a little top heavy; I'm open to reevaluating my Town reads down the line but I feel good about a lot of people and I wanted my reads list to reflect that. If I were being conservative I'd probably put KTT in Townlean and bork, Prism, and LLD in null.

To elaborate a little bit on the Mathblade read, I felt from the beginning that there's no reason for Mathblade to thrust himself into the limelight during the Prism Flavor Saga (which is a good title for a fantasy book series). When met with a ton of pressure after his flavor arguments, and declared the lim for the Day by the claimed mason, he doesn't back down, which tells me he's anything BUT survivalistic as a lot of people are trying to characterize him (this is probably the first place I'm going to look for scum in the event Mathblade is mislimmed, btw). I find myself agreeing with a lot of his later posts, such as his reach out to KTT and SirCakez as TvT (although he seems to be back on the Cakez is scum train?), and his recent exchanges with Titus always leave me questioning Titus and completely understanding where Mathblade is coming from. I already cited 1304 as a the towniest post in the game and I stand by that an hour and a half later.

KTT wins most improved: From humble beginnings as an early scum lean, they have catapulted themselves to one of the top spots in my town pool thanks to both heads' recent posting.

Cakez feels natural and isn't trying too hard to be a badass so he's probably Town.

I almost put GreyICE in the scum lean category, I didn't like his first several posts where he emphasized how he didn't care about the Morning phase, and I don't like how the majority of his content is wrapped up in picking apart mastina's walls. These interactions with mastina don't really fit with the rest of his play style this game. Like cool we can all find some shit wrong with mastina's posts in every game she plays, regardless of her alignment. I felt, and still kinda feel, that getting into a back and forth with mastina of all people would be easy for scum to do because it makes a big show of "scumhunting" when it doesn't really accomplish anything. But then I remembered his first post where he immediately checks mastina's ISO for a scum read, so there is precedence for his focus on mastina. And I seem to recall GreyICE pretending to give a shit every time I've seen him as scum, and his early posts don't really point to that. So all of this cancels out into a null read, congrats. Be more readable pls

I hated Battle Mage's vote on Mathblade, he had a previously stated town read on him and his justification for the 180 in the read was that Mathblade was being survivalistic which I already explained is like the exact opposite way I would characterize Math's behavior. He also had a post that rubbed me the wrong way about SirCakez having a great scum game, which to me seemed to fuel the fire of the ongoing Cakez paranoia at the time without really contributing his thoughts on Cakez in a meaningful way? Felt like scum taking a potshot from the sidelines. And while I was Scum in both Xenoblade and Pooky vs. FL (I sound like a broken record) I thought Battle Mage was super obviously Town in both those games and I don't get those vibes here. But I also didn't give a fuck about reading him in those games so take that with a grain of salt.

Just wanted to tell you that when I read this post earlier while finishing up my grading. Did I tell you that I'm done with my grading? Like I'm in total bliss that I'm caught up with work?

Anyway, I saw this and was like



And I super hope you're really town this time because we're looking at the game pretty similarly, and I hope that we're not really off.

I don't feel as great about Cakez as you do, but I don't have him as as big a concern as I did previously. I like Prism more than you do. And I'm as big a waffle town on Dunnstral as Titus. Well no not as much but there is definitely waffling around these parts.

pedit: bell - uh no I've only rolled scum with nacho in the flying scumsman in a hydra with nacho; I haven't rolled scum by myself in years. Where did you think I had?

[Tammy]

Sorry, I didn't realize you were only counting times when you rolled scum by yourself.

Yeah I count them as separate. There's something about hydraing with someone who loves scum that affects your approach and gives you some confidence you don't feel on your own. Let's just say I'm not looking forward to the junk pile that is my first scum game in years. And if my first scum game in years is against nacho it will be a disaster. Not that I've never fooled nacho or won't make it my personal mission to fool him again; it's just that first time. won't be pretty.

This really doesn't mean anything though. Is there anything you want to ask me?

LLD - Thank you! I think the thing that bothers me the most about Dunn is the feeling like he's kinda hiding behind you a bit, which you might not mind, but a couple places has felt weird. And then a characterization here or there about Math that felt similar to his play in Popcorn where he was scum and I let him get past me. And right now my waffle is one part yeah he feels like scum and not like he felt in xenoblade or tenet as town, and the other part am I looking at some of these things and calling them scummy because I'm overcorrecting for letting him get by me in popcorn?

Spiffeh - On quiet - I just didn't have much of a town gut feeling on him. But I really hated his Math position which felt like he felt like he needed to say a bunch of stuff about Math but didn't know what he should be saying about Math. But damn upon rereading his iso I don't dislike him as much as my memory of his posts did.

[Tammy]

Tammy what are your thoughts on Battle Mage?

I think he's pretty scummy. I thought he was somewhat townish early. Then I thought he might have been a mason partner with LLD. IN fact, the way I read Battle Mage's reaction to Lld's claim as mason partner is why I initially believed LLD"s claim. But then I reread later, and I think I really misinterpreted. And then the change on his read on MathBlade for the dumb survivalstic reasons that Dunnstral claimed earlier felt all kinds of wrong, and really his posts just read smarmy to me and not at all fun troll like in xenoblade.

[Tammy]

Tammy what are your thoughts on Battle Mage?

I think he's pretty scummy. I thought he was somewhat townish early. Then I thought he might have been a mason partner with LLD. IN fact, the way I read Battle Mage's reaction to Lld's claim as mason partner is why I initially believed LLD"s claim. But then I reread later, and I think I really misinterpreted. And then the change on his read on MathBlade for the dumb survivalstic reasons that Dunnstral claimed earlier felt all kinds of wrong, and really his posts just read smarmy to me and not at all fun troll like in xenoblade.

Damn it you are inside my head. I don't remember us synching quite like this in the ancient games of yore.

I’ve learned how to paint my face, how yo earm my keep, how o clean my kill.

Think we worked against each other more than together in the days of yore. I may have been messier too then.
But I am going to sleep!

[Tammy]

Tammy what are your thoughts on Battle Mage?

I think he's pretty scummy. I thought he was somewhat townish early. Then I thought he might have been a mason partner with LLD. IN fact, the way I read Battle Mage's reaction to Lld's claim as mason partner is why I initially believed LLD"s claim. But then I reread later, and I think I really misinterpreted. And then the change on his read on MathBlade for the dumb survivalstic reasons that Dunnstral claimed earlier felt all kinds of wrong, and really his posts just read smarmy to me and not at all fun troll like in xenoblade.

Damn it you are inside my head. I don't remember us synching quite like this in the ancient games of yore.

I’ve learned how to paint my face, how yo earm my keep, how o clean my kill.

Think we worked against each other more than together in the days of yore. I may have been messier too then.
But I am going to sleep!

Let’s see how well I can type while in the passenger seat.

I wanted to pick this back up now that I’m sober. In addition to the above, we did come to a realization at some point that if we could figure out how to find each other as town and work together, we’d have a strong chance to stomp scum, but that never quite materialized for a few reasons and then we both took breaks soon after I think.

I don’t think it’s too surprising though. I don’t think as masons or as a hydra we were too far off in how we viewed quite a few things? Maybe here and there.

You can talk to me about whatever niggles you have though! If they’re things to talk about though it does amuse me that I’m still tantalus with that ffery town read just out of reach. :p.

The know that I should be doing my DUE DILIGENCE and read the parts I missed or be pushing something more, but uh I’m just kinda not in the mood to. I don’t think it will affect my view of the game state and I’m kinda bored and don’t really care about a lot of what’s been posted. Perhaps that’s in part due to the fact that I spent the week doing nothing but grading and my brain is spent or to how I’m feeling about mafia and the place I want mafia in my life right now. Funny story, but I logged into the site last week to out from the game only to find a role pm instead. I’m glad I didn’t out now as I’m having fun, but that’s where my head is at with mafia right now.

I’m still trying to figure out what I think about Titus and I’m trying to make sense of how I feel about her read on me. I’m not surprised she’s scum reading me because she’s not that great at reading me even though she’ll say how easy I am to read sometimes. So the early posting and around me makes sense in trying to read me and start maybe town then think scum later is consistent with how past games reads of me have gone. As either alignment actually now that I think about it. But what I find odd is that she earlier defended me that my absences were nai but then basically used that as her scum read. Felt off but don’t know how off it is for Titus. Other than that I haven’t liked a lot of what she’s done, and I don’t like the grousing about it being a town loss due to post restrictions etc; it’s just that she feels fake.

If my understanding of the game state is at all correct then I think at least one of Titus, battle mage, and quiet is scum. (I kinda like cakes getting weirded out that people are too easily putting quiet into their scum reads. He probably doesn’t realize that it was that kind of feeling with regards to Norfolk in popcorn.)

[Tammy]

Add dune trap to that bit.

[Tammy]

And mastina

And yeah I feel even better about bell town.

[Tammy]

I’m not sure what bells math case does for me. I read it I appreciate it, but it did more to help me on bell than on math. It’s just that some of those things could also be consistent with math town, but I am getting to the point where I’m not going to fight it because good gods do I not want this to be the discussion tomorrow too.

[Tammy]

Ffery - I’m not bothered about your play. I have a decently town read on you.

I was joking about me always being just short of a town read for you.

[Tammy]

Dune trap is my phones version of dunnstral.

[Tammy]

Beyond that I’m not really sure what you want from me. I’ve asked the questions I’ve wanted to ask. I have a view of the game I’m somewhat comfortable with, and the things I’d like to settle aren’t going to happen right this minute. I’m just playing the game and I feel good. If your niggles are that I haven’t asked you more questions, we’ll I don’t know what to do with that because I’ve asked what I wanted to and yeah I don’t know.

I realize you’re gonna be in a weirder state maybe, and that’s fine.

[Tammy]

Sorry for a bunch of posts in a row, lumbering around the streets of Chicago so my thoughts are broken

But I don’t understand your post at all ffery, and maybe you misunderstood me. The basic gist of part of that was that it didn’t surprise me that we’d be in sync on something.

[Tammy]

The only thing its done really is made it slightly harder to read Tammy and KTT.

Are you referring to the post restriction? And if you read me as scum after we claimed IC, I don't think you have a handle on what town me looks like, don't think you'd be able to tell in more posts, and I'm not going to go all scary-face to get you to read me correctly. But if you are referring to the post restriction. The only thing that the post restriction has done is had me put together posts into one that I wouldn't normally bother with. I'd still have not been around much this week because I was busy with work stuff.

~~~

Ffery - I think maybe I understand where you got your original thought? When I mentioned not having you as town to town paean level, it was just a reference of my strength of read. In Tenet, when you made the town paean post, I knew you were town. I got paranoid here and there even after we died when I was somewhat keeping up in case we came back, but I always came back to that post as my tether for me just knowing you were town. So, when I referenced that it just meant that my strength of read was not what it was in Tenet, and I wouldn't want what pushed you to that reaction for me to have that kind of safety in a read.

I just wouldn't bet the game on any of my reads right this moment.

How do you feel about bork?

pedit: that's a total mood. Also don't bet on nacho right this minute. He wanted to "take a nap" a few hours ago because he's got a weird schedule tomorrow and I tried to wake him up from said nap and his response was something like why fight the inevitable or some shit like that. He'll probably do something stupid like wake up at 3 am and totally fuck himself over for work, so maybe you hear from him then.

[Tammy]

Tammy you're worrying me.

Why?

Had a post in response to this but quite frankly, I don't care. I'm playing mafia the way I want to play it and the way it fits into my life how I want it to. I'm town and have been quite transparent with my thoughts about the game. If you want to waste your time worrying or fake worrying, have fun.

Yesterday you got a bit pissy with me when you misinterpreted me being worried about you that I should be asking you stuff to figure it out, and back atcha.

[Tammy]

@Tammy, I'm thinking about how stressed you were in Smokefilled as votes piled up on Tayl0r. We talked in the neighborhood about what we each stress about as Day 1 wagons coalesce and the deadline looms.

We're there -- and you're not? Is there something different about this deadline? Are my expectations way off? Or maybe it's because there's no certainty about how this day ends yet?

Who do you want to vote?

Oh! Okay. Sorry. Well smoke filled was especially tense for me because I was so paranoid of you guys and I knew that if Taylor flipped town that I was probably going to be next even thought you guys said Jake would go next and it fed my paranoia even more. I should have been less paranoid in a deathy with you guys there, but it made it worse. I felt like I was in a weird outsider position and I felt extraordinarily alone in a way that felt odd until night one. I should have felt more confident about my place in the game, but I was more paranoid than usual. The idea of what the deathy was going to be in a world where Taylor was town freaked me the fuck out.

I don't get that freaked out by the day one bronze anymore. Well, I do but I've learned to contain it a lot, and taken some lessons from some offsite players that are much better than me, that if I don't have a strong scum read day one then I either follow someone who does or be content if it's someone in my poe.

This game is a bit weird in that I don't have a strong scumread, but I also don't quite trust other people's strong scum reads. I've reread Mastina's iso a couple times today, and looked for that old muffin tell of whimsy, which I don't detect but I'm not sure if that's still a tell or really what he meant by whimsy really. I was hoping for Nacho's thoughts on Mastina (and Titus because he was able to read her properly in Tenet when I was freaked out about her calling me town and easy to read.) I'm not against a Mastina lynch, and that's probably where my vote will end up I guess. Every possible vote feels a little uninspired though. I'm not sure how to feel about that, but I'm also a bit bored of this day and I'm not sure there's much more to get out of it especially with the people who I have the question marks on not really posting much that moves the needle at all.

I do finally understand what Math was talking about with the Trident, but I disagree it proves the existence of masons.

[Tammy]

Will be back later and will be around for deadline.

Hoping for nacho to make an appearance. I would like this thoughts on mastina, titus and cakez.

I'm just reading through cakez's iso and I think I might prefer cakez over mastina actually. They're both in my list of possible scum, so it's not a big preference, but I'm just reminding of how often cakez has pinged me throughout this day. He has some good posts that I like, and I didn't really have an issue with the comment about math having a meltdown and kuribo's interaction there. I'm just coming out of a game with town!cakez in which he did a very similar sort of thing and then misrepresented and argument I made. At first I couldn't believe it would come from town, and then I realized he probably was town (with a lot of nacho insistence!). I also don't mind that he asked for meta and didn't do anything with it. I've asked for meta with great intentions to do something with it and then never done it.

I initially liked that he was concerned about the quiet issue and being in everyone's poe/bronze piles, but looking back Cakez had quiet in his would bronze list. He didn't like quiet's position on Mathblade the way quiet danced around mathblade but didn't take a position. He then got worried about his activity vs. booneytoonz. He then starts calling quiet a LHF bronze when criticizing mastina's reads list and finds it odd that everyone else had that scum read too. When Titus calls him out on it, he says he made the post in response to seeing quiet in Prism and someone else's bronze piles. But here's where that loses me. Prism is a never bronze for Cakez, so why does quiet being in his super strong town read's list make him nervous? And he doesn't do anything with the other one, he says he'll have to go back and look. He mentions that he also had him on his bronze list until it seemed clear he flaked and the flaking is the key there. I guess I just don't really get that point or why he didn't show any concern about who he thinks is sticking quiet in their bronze pool as LHF.

I'm not even sure if I should be concerned about this actually. Recent games tell me that just because he's not following the thread to the end of the line and making more considerations about it might not mean he's scum. But it doesn't feel natural. And a lot of his pop ins don't feel natural. His scum reads and strength of reads like the ones just before this post feel quite a bit posturey.

I don't like his read on Titus or his meta there. He's claiming she doesn't state the defeated crap as town, and that she doesn't get this defensive, but oh yes she does. In Tenet as she was getting run up and misyeeted, she did get defeated and talked about how some things hurt her feelings. She was more active in pushing her scum reads there, but she was still getting a bit demotivated and defensive by the accusations there. I'm not even sure Titus is town here, so this isn't to say this makes Titus town but just Cakez is pushing a meta read on Titus that I don't understand.

Might prefer there then, not sure, but I'll be back in a bit.

For mastina I just don't know. She doesn't look town to me, but yeah who knows.

pedit: Yeah I don't know with Cakez more recent posts :/ But comparing popcorn as scum like to miselim, that is not exactly true. Scum basically split the bill on cakez, and my theory that scum wanted to get cakez shot was so that he could shoot us for the loss.

[Tammy]

I might just sheep captain my captain :p

No, but seriously, what made you change your mind on Titus, spiffeh?

[Tammy]

I had a pretty elaborate post on Titus in 1402. Which is still where I stand because I'm just now beginning to read the last 10-15 pages.

Yeah I read that. I wondered if you got more certain because I’m quite torn there myself.

[Tammy]

Cakes posts are so fucking posturey

[Tammy]

So is battlemage and Pooky tbf

Disingenuous af the lot of you!

Pedit hmm I like that pooky post though

[Tammy]

actually I don't like the pooky post as much as I thought I did. I actually thought he might be the other mason but um I think I was wrong there too lol

and I do like Cakez reaction to pooky here.

Halp

[Tammy]

Will move my vote to probably mastina at some point.

In the middle of something but I am aroundish and will be back later

Ffery what do you like about battles posts?

For cakes his I WILL END YOU feels a bit farcical coming from him which pings but not sure how really alignment indicative it is.

[Tammy]

Pierre Pierre I don’t careeeeeeee

VOTE: mastina

Will be around to move it but good gods is most things right now registering in my I just don’t care meter.

[Tammy]

Oh I’m uh kinda softening on battle mage feels man idk

[Tammy]

I’ll move to mathblade tomorrow to avoid no bronze and for tomorrow not to be today

Of those three preferred is proooobably cakes conflicted on Titus.

[Tammy]

Only reason I’m not going Dunn right now is that lld wants to give him a day.

[Tammy]

Yeah I am also playing video games and will be back.

You both sound fake as fuck.

Will move later I I have to.

Guys seriously shut the first go up. You’re wasting all the oxygen. And you’re both plastic.

[Tammy]

Hmmm

I think I have a problem with that claim.

Lemme think

[Tammy]

AHHHHH

I'm in a bit of outguessing the mod mode right now, and I don't know if I should believe that that role is a town role.

[Tammy]

Oh fuck it, I have it when people dance around shit and we've got enough claims out there.

I'm Mrs. Frederics, an x-shot artifact usage detector.

I've softed this a few places, and this was why my early game focus was on artifacts and rooting out liars.

A part of me thinks we don't work together on the same side, but maybe we do. This claim was probably dumb, but I figure I fit right in now.

[Tammy]

I am just at a loss at this point.

Even mastina's recent content looks Town to me.

I have no opinion about the claim and it does not affect my Cakez read, I am still town leaning him by play.

I might just throw away all my reads and start fresh tomorrow, I am so NOT on the same page as a lot of people that are probably Town and I am starting to think it's more of a me problem then a them problem.

Again, will be on for deadline to push a lim through.

I do think it's CONVENIENT of Pooky to actually start contributing now that we are close to our deadline/page count limit.

Pooky's push on cakez looks like his push on flavor leaf in tenet but cakez response looks fake and quite frankly I wonder if it's theater.

[Tammy]

Oh fuck it, I have it when people dance around shit and we've got enough claims out there.

I'm Mrs. Frederics, an x-shot artifact usage detector.

I've softed this a few places, and this was why my early game focus was on artifacts and rooting out liars.

A part of me thinks we don't work together on the same side, but maybe we do. This claim was probably dumb, but I figure I fit right in now.

Fits flavor.

There's a Mrs. Frederics-in-training character who also has this talent in the series.

I swore I'd save 25 posts for Nacho out of our 125 post "allotment". This is post 100.

Why are we mass-claiming?

We aren't. I'm wondering if Cakez and I could be on the same side which is outguessing the mod, but does someone who gets a list of people's artifacts and someone who can detect who used an artifact work as both town?

I claimed only because I started outguessing the mod and commented about it, and I hate when people go oh we can't work together as town roles but act all coy about it, so I was dumb in the first place.

pedit: I have a certain number of shots where I can target a person and see if they used an artifact on the day (s) I specify.

[Tammy]

Probably won't get an extension, but take care of you. Game is not important.

I'm not even sure it is a CC; it doesn't feel like we could both be town, but I could be wrong about that.

[Tammy]

I am considering moving to Cakez. I just hate everything about Cakez/Pooky's interactions; there's just nothing natural about them. Though from what i think i know about Pooky he doesn't tend to bus day one so I guess they might not be partnered no matter how fake their interactions are. (Wouldn't bet the bank on the no bussing thing though.) And Pooky's push on cakez feels so much like his push on flavor leaf in tenet. There is something wrong with those interactions. Pooky's push there is one of the reasons I don't want to go there even though Cakez feels so fake himself.

I'm not even very convinced mastina's gonna flip scum some of her stuff felt pretty okay today.

I don't know.

[Tammy]

F in the chat

Nacho and I are having no luck trying to play together

[Tammy]

I'm tired as hell and have had some bad news the past couple days, and I just don't feel like playing mafia tonight.

I was not roleblocked last night. I'm not sure my information is all that useful though.

I need to reread end of day, but I was concerned by Cakez and Pooky's interaction at the end of day yesterday. Mostly the whole "I will end you tomorrow" from Cakez and then after he claimed, he didn't know who to use it on and was taking suggestions, but if he suspected Pooky as much as he did, wouldn't he consider there? I did just start to try to reread through Mastina, and I'm not sure she tries to bronze cakez as her partner right out the gate that way. But i was also a bit surprised that Mastina just basically rolled over yesterday as scum; I don't remember that being her style.

Anyway I only got through the beginning of Mastina's iso and stopped. I'm tired and going to bed. See you guys tomorrow.

[Tammy]

SHE WAS LITERALLY TRYING TO MASTINA PROTOCOL ME OUT OF THE GAME AND IM LOOKING BAD ROFL GOOD JOKE SPIFFEH

what do you mean by this? all she did was call you town the entire game.

[Tammy]

I'm tired as hell and have had some bad news the past couple days, and I just don't feel like playing mafia tonight.

I was not roleblocked last night. I'm not sure my information is all that useful though.

I need to reread end of day, but I was concerned by Cakez and Pooky's interaction at the end of day yesterday. Mostly the whole "I will end you tomorrow" from Cakez and then after he claimed, he didn't know who to use it on and was taking suggestions, but if he suspected Pooky as much as he did, wouldn't he consider there? I did just start to try to reread through Mastina, and I'm not sure she tries to bronze cakez as her partner right out the gate that way. But i was also a bit surprised that Mastina just basically rolled over yesterday as scum; I don't remember that being her style.

Anyway I only got through the beginning of Mastina's iso and stopped. I'm tired and going to bed. See you guys tomorrow.

Okay. I was either not shot at last night, or Tammy is scum.

Anyone else have proof that they weren't roleblocked last night?

The artefact I used last night, Raputin's Prayer Rope, prevents all kills on me for 1 night, but if I am successfully shot, all TOWN actions (not artefact abilities) are prevented that night.

so probably i just wasn't shot last night wiht 2 kills

You weren't shot then.

I didn't expect you to be though. You were the obvious protect last night, which probably means they don't have a strong man power right now.

[Tammy]

what do you mean by this? all she did was call you town the entire game.

you know what standard mastina protocol is!!

No, you said she was trying to get you out of the game but she only called you town. So that does not compute.

[Tammy]

I did a search. I understand.

Come back to process what I think of it tomorrow after sleep.

[Tammy]

I did a search. I understand.

Come back to process what I think of it tomorrow after sleep.

I did a search.

It says if deep wolf > 0 probability Tammy 66%

Probability deep wolf 50%

Total probability 33%

Would elim pile for you Tammy

translate?

[Tammy]

I did a search. I understand.

Come back to process what I think of it tomorrow after sleep.

I did a search.

It says if deep wolf > 0 probability Tammy 66%

Probability deep wolf 50%

Total probability 33%

Would elim pile for you Tammy

translate?

I am scared of you being a deep wolf, so you’re not in my don’t touch block.

I'm flattered!

If my scum game looks like this when I finally roll scum again, I will be fucking ecstatic!

[Tammy]

the comb is literally useless and not worth using?

it literally makes 1 player need 1 more vote to bronze

But if you already have artifacts, you still can't use and pass during the night.

On the one hand, I don't quite care if you hoard them. It makes my job easier when trying to see who's using them. Although we know who's getting them, so never mind this thought.

[Tammy]

Said my peace artifact should go to LLD

Tammy’s last post pings hard but Titus or Dunn are better today.

Dude I have an atrocious scum game, and I haven't rolled scum in years.

If I'm able to make it through day one when I finally roll scum again, I will be fucking ecstatic.

[Tammy]

My working assumption has been that MathBlade is scum ever since he immediately 180'd on me/with the 3 way positioning between me/him/mastina, but perhaps I'm wrong.

Gonna kinda omgus there and the weird deep wolf accusation feels really off.

[Tammy]

Actually no my original idea is kinda sound I think. If LLD keeps the artifacts, then we know where they are, which makes mine and cakez' jobs easier?

So if cakez is town then the two of us have a chance to find people who really shouldn't have artifacts unless they started with them right?

Nevermind, it doesn't matter because we still know who the day's artifacts go to, so we can still work around it.

[Tammy]

Uh the Pooky is town for mastina protocol whatever is totally bunk.

Mathblade buying into it and calling pooky town for it, but wanting to bronze either titus or dunn today when they sat in the same spots as Pooky in mastina's reads list makes no sense.

If you believe mastina would make a reads list to purposefully try to get town bronzed due to LLD and GreyIce being in the game then you have to believe that titus and dunn are town too.

I will read Pooky based on Pooky's own merits and he doesn't look town.

I still think that Math is probably town, I'm just really confused by this logic.

[Tammy]

Why the FUCK would you ever kill either of those slots, that better be a scum doublekill of some sort

1) There is only one anti-town faction in play for this game (Mafia). There are four Mafia-aligned players.

Whoever played hero vig can tongue my taint.

Unless you're 3rd party and the above doesn't count SKs as an anti-town faction, which would... slightly irritate me.

Not okay with LLD getting the artifact. She is absolutely on the list.

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (1): quiet
SirCakez (7): mastina, Dunnstral, Kitty Trauma Team, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalbear, Titus, MathBlade

<- HEY TOWN IS THERE A GOOD REASON NOT TO MURDERFUCK FROM HERE?

mastina (9--BRONZED): GreyICE, Prism, Battle Mage, Tammy, SirCakez, borkjerfkin, Bell, Sangres, Spiffeh

Vote: Titus

You're voting for Titus to get the artifact, which unless I'm really misunderstanding you, it's not what you want?

[Tammy]

Wonder if there was an artifact that gave scum a double kill or something? I don't get why anyone would vig either of those slots, and I don't really understand why nightkill either of them. Yes they're both very town, but it was clear neither of them were masons, so there has to be reasons for those kills. Not only was there a claimed mason, but there were two claimed investigatives and I wasn't roleblocked. I guess they could have been trying to find the doc, but that doesn't make sense either especially with bell claiming that Dunn was softing even though he claimed not to be.

I don't know something feels off about them. (And I'm quite unhappy to lose Nacho when he's the only reason I was playing in the first place )

[Tammy]

So, I discovered TikTok today and I might need to replace out cuz I’m



Or just a sad bitch that’s sat here and drank all day and done nothin else :/

BUT

Titus - I am sorry, You were prophetic as shit and I should have listened to you yesterday because while I think mathblade is town, good gods if that dude comes within range I am hammering that motherfucker, I kinda feel like right now we’re in a SF movie and told we have just soooo much oxygen for everyone and one person has decided they don’t wanna share oxygen with everyone and they’re just gonna go ahead and hyperfucking ventilate and I’m mot above airlocking a motherfucker,

But seriously (Though I am totally serious about hammering that shit) yesterday you kinda got after me, and then claim d I was counter claiming cakez, when I wasn’t sure if even that’s what I was doing, But I know that sometimes when we’re town together and everything’s cool but sometimes it’s not and you like to take potshots at my playstyle and then I can’t tell if it’s scum you or town you doing it, But I would like to see all about cakez,

I’m having have had big motherfucking problems with Pooky and cakez interaction’s since yesterday, and I do not think both of them are town and while I think it’s some serious scum theater I could be wrong, but my one big question I ask myself is why did cakez spend all of yesterday saying I WILL END YOU POOKY!!! and then not know who to use his role on, take suggestions cuz he doesn’t know how to use his role, then use it on fucking quiet while still yelling “I WILL END YOU POOKY”?

Like does that make sense?

Does it make more sense than book trying to deflect fake paranoia on ffery yesterday at end of day over dumb bullshit? OH and then trying to false equivalency fake paranoia on me for ffery and do nothing else today? Yeah that makes sense y’all,

I don’t believe it’s impossible that w had due,in scum wagons yesterday, I think it’s entirely possible one of Pooky or cakes is scum,

I’ve lost my train of thought completely but I think that prism, math (gods help us all) bell, LLD sorta yeah I went back and read magic girls and he fake claim was different than here but good gods does she not have the same scum game twice and people are fucking stupid (and she says so so maybe now I’m adumbbitch for following or I’m just gonna go ahead and drink more wine), kinda like greyice but I think I always think he’s town so lol, kinda liked some battle,age posts too

So but really I wanna know why the fuck cakez did inventory on quiet when he’s been all up in pooky’s ass?

[Tammy]

[Tammy]

also whoever said spiffeh is not confirmed town for hammering the only agon he could at that point, you’re beautiful

[Tammy]

So, I discovered TikTok today and I might need to replace out cuz I’m



Or just a sad bitch that’s sat here and drank all day and done nothin else :/

BUT

Titus - I am sorry, You were prophetic as shit and I should have listened to you yesterday because while I think mathblade is town, good gods if that dude comes within range I am hammering that motherfucker, I kinda feel like right now we’re in a SF movie and told we have just soooo much oxygen for everyone and one person has decided they don’t wanna share oxygen with everyone and they’re just gonna go ahead and hyperfucking ventilate and I’m mot above airlocking a motherfucker,

But seriously (Though I am totally serious about hammering that shit) yesterday you kinda got after me, and then claim d I was counter claiming cakez, when I wasn’t sure if even that’s what I was doing, But I know that sometimes when we’re town together and everything’s cool but sometimes it’s not and you like to take potshots at my playstyle and then I can’t tell if it’s scum you or town you doing it, But I would like to see all about cakez,

I’m having have had big motherfucking problems with Pooky and cakez interaction’s since yesterday, and I do not think both of them are town and while I think it’s some serious scum theater I could be wrong, but my one big question I ask myself is why did cakez spend all of yesterday saying I WILL END YOU POOKY!!! and then not know who to use his role on, take suggestions cuz he doesn’t know how to use his role, then use it on fucking quiet while still yelling “I WILL END YOU POOKY”?

Like does that make sense?

Does it make more sense than book trying to deflect fake paranoia on ffery yesterday at end of day over dumb bullshit? OH and then trying to false equivalency fake paranoia on me for ffery and do nothing else today? Yeah that makes sense y’all,

I don’t believe it’s impossible that w had due,in scum wagons yesterday, I think it’s entirely possible one of Pooky or cakes is scum,

I’ve lost my train of thought completely but I think that prism, math (gods help us all) bell, LLD sorta yeah I went back and read magic girls and he fake claim was different than here but good gods does she not have the same scum game twice and people are fucking stupid (and she says so so maybe now I’m adumbbitch for following or I’m just gonna go ahead and drink more wine), kinda like greyice but I think I always think he’s town so lol, kinda liked some battle,age posts too

So but really I wanna know why the fuck cakez did inventory on quiet when he’s been all up in pooky’s ass?

This should have said and the fake claim was different than here.

[Tammy]

No no no nonononnonono

I’d like to submit to you mafiafantasy camp when I wafflled then hammered scum Kanye over town what’s his name and re Eileen a shitton if towncred I did not deserve and won that fucking game,

Spiffeh does feel okay townish from his day one play but hammering scum when there’s literally no other fucking option does not give you Cred,

It just doesn’t,

[Tammy]

But I’d be super happy if someone could help me understand these things:

Why the hell did those two deaths happen (again ifucking hate you for killing the reason I’m playing)
Why was I not roleblocked (I double checked, and I definitely wasn’t)
Why the fuck did cakez kill quiet while pre- and post- claiming POOKY YOU WILL DIE I WILL END YOU

because my solve right now looks like Dgb, cakez, and borkjerfkin

[Tammy]

IDK if you missed it Tammy but the reason sangres was killed is because they had successfully linked up with MathBlade, scum couldn't risk it and it is primarily thanks to MathBlade that we voted scum Day 1 and are in a good position today Day 2.

I am sure it had a lot less to do with sangres being obvious town all day, townblocking with you, me, and a few others, and successfully hammering the scum despite vocal opposition.

I do remember now that when I checked in and voted Mastina it was because I was sheeping

you, Sangres and bell

mathblade, thanks for setting me straight!

[Tammy]

But I’d be super happy if someone could help me understand these things:

Why the hell did those two deaths happen (again ifucking hate you for killing the reason I’m playing)
Why was I not roleblocked (I double checked, and I definitely wasn’t)
Why the fuck did cakez kill quiet while pre- and post- claiming POOKY YOU WILL DIE I WILL END YOU

because my solve right now looks like Dgb, cakez, and borkjerfkin

1. One is a scum nightkill, the other is unknown but was most likely a vigshot (Artifact vs. rolepower is unclear). It is not to our interest to really investigate too much here as it is confirmed singleball.
2. LLD's item only roleblocks the town if she got shot at. She did not get shot at, so you were not roleblocked.
3. Cakez submits his action during the day. Here, he submitted EoD Day 1. This was the stated reason:

Mmk i submitted on quiet slot because that's a contentious area and could be useful

It might be worth elaborating specifically on why he didn't go on Pooky, which TBH isn't a bad pick because Pooky basically claimed a no artifact start with his commentary on my N0 artifact pass.

I don't think that's a bad solve tbh but my instinct is still bork town, I feel like I'm probably wrong on B_M/Titus but B_M would be playing really well as scum here tbh, why he's kind of 4th/5th on the priority list for me.

1, Yeah but why those nightkill? (My cat is looking at me with really closed eyes and it looks like those horror shows with peoples mouths erased and is fucking creepy,). Why the nightkill interested me more than normal, because when not sangres or kitty? is we’ve got a claimed mason, Two claimed investigatives, and neither of those could ever pass for masons, sooooo why pass over the claims for that?

2, My question about my roleblock wasn’t relevant to lld. I literally only used my role last night to see if I would have been roleblocked, I was kind of at a loss on who to use it, and on,y did at the last moment for that purpose,

3. So the cakez thing dawned on me over night because he made such a fuss over it yesterday and I know it was a day role, Riggt before he claimed he was yeling about how he was going to end Pooky, but after he claimed was like who should I use my role in, guess I’ll just pick someone I suspect after shooting down someone else’s suggestion. Is that natural?

What I don’t like about Bork was the deflection shade he threw in ffery at end of day yesterday, he accused ffery of not town reading him because he called her out at end if day. I made a post about it yesterday and then deleted it because I also had some concern of ffery fake paranoia-ing me (it’s kinda her scum signature) but then with her dying and then him kinda deflecting onto me I’m womdering if that’s just not his svum thing too, I do know that Bork is a bit extra paranoid so this could be a blind paranoia of my own but I’m at why would scum kill town who clearly wasn’t a mason or one of the claimed roles? And the thing making me chew the inside of my cheek is hey Bork how ya doin?

[Tammy]

Sorry. I actually thought I replaced out on Monday when the idea of playing mafia was too much. I'm an easily distracted waffler, so I must have gone shiny before hitting send but thinking I did. I'm in a bit better headspace than I was a couple days ago, so I'll work on getting back to it. I still need to read through Mastina and how the end of day went down and today. Need to go back to look at some other things day one as well.

Prism - Thank you for asking me a question a few days ago. It felt like you were trying to pull me into the game, and I appreciated it. Sometimes I feel super alone in mafia games, so it's nice to not feel alone. Also I really hope that my read on you is right. Not just because I thought you were town quite early and I'd like to be right, but also because you've recognized me as town. After the game we played a few years ago, I thought I was the type of player that you'd not understand and never be able to read as town, so I'm happy if I'm actually wrong about that. (And, just in response to your big post. Nacho told me about how much he loved your play as scum that game and that he wanted to hydra with you and why. I was surprised when you said you didn't like playing scum when we were partnered in Flying Scumsman because of that. Regfan started playing at my homesite rip just after I started playing mafia so a lot of my early understanding of mafia was shaped by watching him and a couple other players there who were hands down some of the best town players I've ever seen. I still chat with Regfan though I miss some of the other players on your list. Magua was such a fun person to play with.)

[Tammy]

Prism - I do owe you my thoughts on Bork though before I get started.

I don't know what to think of bork right now. I'm not leaving this game day with a townread, and that's extremely disturbing.

I'll be around more after my class is over, but did this happen to start when i said that your post could come from scum? Because this is the first I've heard of that kind of sentiment from you.

Like I'm sorry but wagon movement has been extremely weird in the latter half of this day and a town flip on mastina here, especially if Titus flips scum later on in the game, puts that under scrutiny for me.

Explain to me why that's unreasonable.

So initially this read really skeevy to me because the "oh do you not have a townread on me because x" just felt so off. It didn't feel right because Bork has felt off and oddly kinda angry all game and not town, so it felt like the kind of deflecting emotional manipulation he did to ffery in Illicit Substances.

Why it feels off are things like this:

If I'm reading things correctly, the post where he suggests sangres vote could come from scum was this one:

If you're talking about the recent votes on mastina, who specifically are you spooked by on that wagon?

Honestly? Everyone except Bell and Battle Mage because they weren't interested in Titus to begin with:

any of
Sangres 1716
Prism 1725
your 1831

Feel to me like they could possibly be stay-off-my-buddy votes just because none of them have any real "I've changed my mind about Titus" to them, and if mastina flips green there basically has to be scum in there

Which came after this:

The only thing its done really is made it slightly harder to read Tammy and KTT.

Are you referring to the post restriction? And if you read me as scum after we claimed IC, I don't think you have a handle on what town me looks like, don't think you'd be able to tell in more posts, and I'm not going to go all scary-face to get you to read me correctly. But if you are referring to the post restriction. The only thing that the post restriction has done is had me put together posts into one that I wouldn't normally bother with. I'd still have not been around much this week because I was busy with work stuff.

~~~

Ffery - I think maybe I understand where you got your original thought? When I mentioned not having you as town to town paean level, it was just a reference of my strength of read. In Tenet, when you made the town paean post, I knew you were town. I got paranoid here and there even after we died when I was somewhat keeping up in case we came back, but I always came back to that post as my tether for me just knowing you were town. So, when I referenced that it just meant that my strength of read was not what it was in Tenet, and I wouldn't want what pushed you to that reaction for me to have that kind of safety in a read.

I just wouldn't bet the game on any of my reads right this moment.

How do you feel about bork?

pedit: that's a total mood. Also don't bet on nacho right this minute. He wanted to "take a nap" a few hours ago because he's got a weird schedule tomorrow and I tried to wake him up from said nap and his response was something like why fight the inevitable or some shit like that. He'll probably do something stupid like wake up at 3 am and totally fuck himself over for work, so maybe you hear from him then.

I had this moment earlier today where I asked myself if there's an unequivocally town post in bork's iso to hold onto and pin down this cloud of a read I have right now, and I felt like maybe there isn't. And then he made a post that was a new thought -- a new question that nobody else had asked and I hadn't thought to ask myself and I thought "there he is! and oh look, he's asking a trajectory^tm question!"

And then Math came in and dumped on it and used it to chain bork and Titus together (with Prism?) and to push the idea of bork and mastina as partners apart.

Like there's not a world where bork just noticed the discrepancy and questioned Mastina.

Anyway, bork still worries me a little. He feels distant, maybe preoccupied.

And yeah, that is a mood. I feel like I've been in too much of a holding pattern, when I should just play onward and sync if and when.

Bell's made some decent points and my read's grown shakier over time, not stronger.

So the Bork suspicion did not come out of nowhere. In fact, sangres had never really expressed a town read on Bork other than liking the post in which he said that they didn't have to worry about him that game and kinda townreading it.

So it felt like a way to jump at her to push her a bit off her footing without recognizing that she'd already been wondering about him.

A few days ago I was thinking about this again, and I started to doubt the above a little bit. Years ago Bork and I hydrad in a game where ffery and nacho hydrad, and while ffery was always iffy about me nacho read me very well and both of them read Bork very well. But in this game, both of them were concerned about us even though we were both being very town throughout the game. And both of us were very freaked out about their question marks on us, and it caused us to have some suspicion on them for positionality reasons and there was some friction.

So when I remembered that, I'm not completely sure that his reaction wouldn't have been similar if he were town too, and I'm not sure what to do with my original reaction to his response to ffery.

Spoiler: Bork's reads list post

it should be clear based on my stances at the end of the Day why I am singling him out over Tammy, but instead he tries to discredit my suspicion by deflecting onto Tammy.

@bork, who do you want limmed today and why? On top of everything I've stated above, I feel a lot of your posts today are surface level and I have no idea where your head is at.

I mean, your stances aren't always clear, that's why I'm calling them out and speculating. You latched onto something that I felt was underexplained by them and only now do I have any kind of justification about why you feel this way.

(I don't really want to make this about tammy either but what has she done in particular that screams town besides an early unprovoked claim, because otherwise she's just been kinda there)

My reads probably would sort into:

{LLD, Bell, Prism, Pooky, Math}
{GreyICE, Cakez}
{Spiffeh, Tammy, BM}
{Dunn, Titus, DGB}

All my lower tier stuff explained:
Dunn - my reason for townreading Dunn EOD yesterday evaporated - I actually thought he was the mason partner for LLD, but Dunn's interactions with LLD have made it pretty clear that this isn't the case. Otherwise, his progression on Mathblade kind of left me in a weird spot as I wasn't very satisfied with how it ended but I picked up on what I thought were softs in that I didn't want to pursue it anymore. Would again restate that I doubt Dunn is scum w/ DGB.

Titus - just kinda gross interaction with Mathblade throughout the game. I find it really hard to stomach that someone wants to continually move back to a policy elim when we have a gamestate that really is pretty sane so far. Math also seems pretty transparently town to me. Don't like this version of the Pooky push either - I can more see where Cakez is coming from even if I think he's being dense as fuck about it.

DGB - Dunno, just expecting something other than the entrance I got. Might imply Titus is town if flipped scum but I consider the error bars extremely wide on that. Was hoping to be able to put this higher up when the slot turned over but here we are.

BM - Hard to quantify, just kinda bad vibes with voting patterns crossed with I think an occasional salient post or two. Did kind of get on mastina before it was cool, so maybe that does count for something. I need a reread.

Tammy - Other than the claim there's just not much there for me? A lot of talk about her overall approach and a lot of hypotheticals but not a lot of stuff that I'm reading with like "yeah I can empathize with that take". Her level of effort is reasonably high when she's here but I'm having trouble finding anything concrete that I can latch onto in a lot of her posts.

Spiffeh - Wanted to save you for last because you've done some stuff I like and some stuff I don't. I feel like people who approach with the level of breadth you do are generally town, and yeah you're trying to kick stones around, but your engagement against still seems like someone who decided at the start of day he wanted to push on my slot because of the opening that ffery gave about it and the fact that I'm not hyper engaged at the moment.
Ultimately I was worried about the mastina votes, but that was something I was willing to deal w/ d2 and that flip I think gave me considerable info and is also why I'm not up the people's asses that I said I was going to be up at start of day if mastina were to have flipped town.
Can we drop the 'surface level' buzzword when describing what you actually don't like about my play here? That makes it utterly impossible to read into your motivations for calling me out here and honestly makes me not want to engage at all. Do you disagree with my points? Do you think I am overly simplifying things? Your suspicion is wrong, and pre-2528 based on imo a really simplistic "sangres kinda sorted suspected bork and sangres is now dead" (despite the fact that I was fucking heavily crumbing that I was going to visit them w/ something last night which by the way I fucking did and it sure was fuck wasn't with a kill)

Spoilering that because this post is too big as it is, but a couple things read off. I don't like deflection onto me in his spiffeh thing before this post which he's done more than once now. It didn't feel like a search for selective scumhunting, which would make sense sort of, but more of a deflection that feels scummy. I don't really get his anger over the concern that sangres showed suspicion on bork and now they're dead so hmm, and really don't understand the angry "I crumbed I was visiting them" as if we're supposed to know that bit. I just reread through his iso and I don't even see it knowing it's supposed to be here. I mean yeah, it's annoying when you're town and people accuse you of this. I expected to get it myself once I saw that sangres was dead because nacho was there and most people don't understand nacho and my goals with each other concerning mafia. Think that Bork isn't really understanding where and why ffery did get concerned about me and that she ultimately was fine so it's weird that Bork deflected there and acting like it's the same. Beyond that I'd really appreciate his spiffeh thoughts that weren't just so centered around spiffeh's thoughts on bork.

I'm going to make that last sentence and immediately be a hypocrite because I hate his entire paragraph about me. The nothing concrete thing is full of cringe because that's often the way that scum talk about me and my posts. I'm not playing really any differently than I've played the past few games, and he was reading us in tenet based on my posts before we claimed IC, and his paranoia on us there felt more free flowing and organic. And the way that he got his initial read on me felt really really natural in tenet. I'm missing that there. I just read over my iso to see if this, and his earlier post, was a fair interpretation of my posts, and I don't think it is. I've made a few posts about my approach, not a lot. My claim wasn't really unprompted, I initially thought Cakez and I couldn't exist together but my sense of balance sucks so I thought I'd put it out there for people more adept than me to judge. I don't know it feels a bit off and my place on his list feels positional even thought I don't really have a problem with where I am in his list. I don't know if that makes sense.

I don't like some of his focus on mathblade. He's acting like people can't be irritated with the mathblade interaction issue, which weirdly makes me feel like he's not town trying to actually read people and the game through this. I feel like if he were town he'd understand the frustration a bit more. The focus later on mathblade being town so the wagon shouldn't be there feels like an easy thing to pop in and plunk down about. We're not bronzing mathblade, we all know we're not actually bronzing mathblade no matter how we want to policy here and there, so it feels like just something easy to pop in for.

BUT through all that, our poe isn't all that terribly different, which makes me wonder if we are not understanding each other this game. I would not have pooky or greyice as high as he has them as confidently as he does. And I'm not as confident that Titus is scum as he is but I definitely had some issues with her day one. If I could muster the ability to do a reads list though it wouldn't be so completely different that there's no way we're looking at the same game.

So, I've come down to not really knowing what to do with this read.

[Tammy]

Oh I have spiffeh higher than him. He's a much stronger town read for me, and part of that is spiffeh's interaction with me and his read and case on dunnstral and the way he pushed it. I do need to nail down this read to make sure I feel confident about this.

[Tammy]

I mean I don't have a ton of large theme experience but scum just...might not have an RB? Why are you assuming they have one? Looking at your role, I think you're overrating just how strong it is early game. You get stronger as the day goes; right now virtually everyone, scum included, is going to return zero and returning one still doesn't damn a scum slot.

Oh I forgot I also wanted to respond to that. I agree that my role isn't really all that strong right now, and I'm not even really sure what it can do early game especially. The role is why I suggested that if someone was given the artifact over night, they claim it. When you said that some people started with an artifact, it put an extreme dent in how I was trying to figure out how to use my role. I didn't realize that, so I basically thought that I could catch scum if I found someone using an artifact.

My assumption is that usually scum have some type of blocker. If there aren't that many of us that have actual roles, they might not have a role blocker but possibly an artifact blocker? Although if LLD is claiming true about being a mason and having the artifact that she used last night, I might be wrong on that. I mostly thought that if I were roleblocked it would be useful information to know and would be lost if I didn't use it to see.

[Tammy]

SirCakez, Mathblade, Spiffeh, Titus

the fuck are you doing off the titus wagon at this point in the game if you legitimately think this

I'm just getting the vibe from 1455 that titus wants to talk more about the reads that aren't legitimate scumreads (math, lld) than the people she's actually scumreading other than cakez. a lot of those other scumreads are heavily laced with plausible deniability

cakez/quiet take seems much ado about nothing to me; i thought cakez' point was pretty salient, that people attacking quiet are kind of doing it recently and therefore more relating to the lack of activity and less about really the content; titus should want to flip quiet here and not cakez because that entire point is predicated on cakez defending a buddy

Bork can you talk about why you have Titus as a scum read now? Yesterday you made it clear that you scum read her, but then at the start of day you kinda moved against it, but are just really focused on the mathblade reasoning. Do you think you can flesh that read out some?

Also, why are you getting after Dunn here? He makes a list of four people, and is on the wagon of the first person in this list (cakez), yet you castigate him for not being on another person on this list.

I'm reading through your iso trying to find a reason why you might be town, but other than tonally liking some of your posts, for the most part they lack nuance and are a bit

buzzword alert

shallow. What do you think of the reasons that people have provided for thinking Titus is town. Unless I'm missing something, that's missing and I don't really understand why. I'm just having a really hard time understanding your approach this game if you're town.

[Tammy]

I'm just gonna work backwards because I'm here now and Tammy posted right to me here:

Bork can you talk about why you have Titus as a scum read now? Yesterday you made it clear that you scum read her, but then at the start of day you kinda moved against it, but are just really focused on the mathblade reasoning. Do you think you can flesh that read out some?

I thought Titus might be town beginning of day because the mastina wagon ended up being on scum, and just the way it built with people quickly switching without much reasoning it smelled of "switching from not-bussing to bussing" to me.

I think more strongly though to me is that Titus went like right back to Mathblade and has kinda just hung out there all day. I also note that her read on me seems mostly commensurate with overall thread feeling about me and not really in relationship to anything I've done.
re: people's reasons for townreading Titus - point to one in particular that we can talk about. I remember Prism saying they thought Titus might be town but I can't find the post right now and if I remember correctly it mostly read as "is being too unbelievably stubborn or dense or something the like" to NOT be town which I just didn't really empathize with when put forward.

Like yeah I'll admit the entire situation needs a reread, and is why I haven't voted there or anywhere today (I've kinda just not been around super much either) I'm just curious as to why you're so focused on that read in particular.

re: Dunn - this was at a point in the game when the Titus wagon was large and the Cakez wagon was not very large and that's a common tactic when scum wants to distance from a partner but not necessarily bus them.

I'm interested in that read because that read has been your main focus. The majority of your day one was focused around the Titus read such that you suspected people based on Titus/mastina positioning. You got after Mastina for her dumb Prism case, but made it clear that your interest was in Titus.

I'm sitting at is Bork town with just THAT strong of a read on Titus for reasons that I'm not so sure are for certain scum? That isn't to say that I don't agree with your problems about Titus because I did bring up some of the same problems with Titus yesterday. It just feels like it's a major focus with not much more depth. I'm interested in that depth. In part because I want to be able to read you, and I'd like your take. Titus is someone that I've gone back and forth on, and some of your issues with her are somewhat either or.

OR are you scum who's been focusing on Titus because it's easy to find scummy things about Titus and focus on her? I kindaaaa don't think if Titus is scum and a pr as has been suggested that you'd get as cranky as you did yesterday that people were going to mastina instead. But if Titus is town, then your focus for some of the reasons that you suggested, doesn't feel great. (I do like the part where you think Titus should be pushing in a different direction if she were town for some of her reads; I see possible glimmers of town there, but I'm not sure the mathblade issue is as concrete as you presented it (even though I admittedly felt the same way yesterday.)

In short, I'm interested because I'm trying to get a handle on you. If I town read you, then I take your Titus concerns into consideration to balance out with my own reads. Mostly, if you're town, I'd like to get there, and I'm hoping understanding your main read will move the needle for me. It's not the only way, but the Titus read seems to be something you care about.

My claim wasn't really unprompted, I initially thought Cakez and I couldn't exist together but my sense of balance sucks so I thought I'd put it out there for people more adept than me to judge

My response really hasn't changed - I think your roles are anti-synergistic. Why do you think they cannot coexist?

I don't think that anymore. My knee jerk reaction when he claimed was that they couldn't work together, but I think it's entirely possible that two weakish investigates were put in.

[Tammy]

Oh but prism wrote a decently in depth post on Titus yesterday, and I thought you'd might interact with that since you have prism as a decently strong town read.

[Tammy]

I'm interested in that read because that read has been your main focus. The majority of your day one was focused around the Titus read such that you suspected people based on Titus/mastina positioning. You got after Mastina for her dumb Prism case, but made it clear that your interest was in Titus.

I'm sitting at is Bork town with just THAT strong of a read on Titus for reasons that I'm not so sure are for certain scum? That isn't to say that I don't agree with your problems about Titus because I did bring up some of the same problems with Titus yesterday. It just feels like it's a major focus with not much more depth. I'm interested in that depth. In part because I want to be able to read you, and I'd like your take. Titus is someone that I've gone back and forth on, and some of your issues with her are somewhat either or.

OR are you scum who's been focusing on Titus because it's easy to find scummy things about Titus and focus on her? I kindaaaa don't think if Titus is scum and a pr as has been suggested that you'd get as cranky as you did yesterday that people were going to mastina instead. But if Titus is town, then your focus for some of the reasons that you suggested, doesn't feel great. (I do like the part where you think Titus should be pushing in a different direction if she were town for some of her reads; I see possible glimmers of town there, but I'm not sure the mathblade issue is as concrete as you presented it (even though I admittedly felt the same way yesterday.)

My play didn't revolve around Titus.
It's the one wagon I got on but it's not where the majority of my engagement lies.

Like I don't even want to go into the rest of this before we get past that point - you're mischaracterizing my opinions on Titus.
If I felt strongly on Titus I'd have come into today and fucking voted her. I was waiting on the mastina flip before I dealt with that, and she flipped in a way that didn't implicate Titus in the way I described.
So I didn't vote there and am mostly reacting to her play today is why I'm conflicted on my mechanical wagon maybe town vs play oriented maybe scum

but I look at your

I'm sitting at is Bork town with just THAT strong of a read on Titus

and wonder if you're reading the same game I am.

that said, I'm not meaning to ignore any post in the game, but I don't appreciate the "bork ignored X <and I don't think he'd do that as town>"
like I ignored the whole fucking forward thread in tenet except when I was feeling on top of my game. You can bet your ass I've glossed over posts and will continue to do that. I'll give it a fair shake now that I've been pointed at it but ???

dude you feel like piss in the wind and you can get after me FOR DARING TO ASK YOU A QUESTION all you want but I'm really confused as to why??? Are you trying to say that yesterday the biggest scum read you had wasn't Titus and that you didn't orient your reads around Titus, get after people like Dunn for not being on the Titus wagon, call out a few people for their positions on Titus? If you say no, I'm wrong about that, I'll go reread your posts from yesterday again, but I really don't think I'm mischaracterizing your read yesterday at all.

This conversation started because I asked you to flesh that read out because yesterday you were focused there, started today backing off and then put her in your poe. You asked me why I was interested in that read in particular, and I responded to why. You're acting like the first post is disconnected to this post, and I'm accusing you of revolving much of your game around her today which doesn't connect from previous posts. I didn't mischaracterize shit.

I don't know what to do here. I feel like you're impossible to play with and interact with this game, and I'm totally confused. I don't understand why you're getting pissy with me for asking a question about your interactions and reads and reading the thread, and are you really telling me to sit on my fucking hands and not ask you why you didn't interact with a post that should have been interesting to you? And you think I'm out of line for wondering that OR expecting you to read posts in a mafia game? Tenet is not comparable to here; I didn't read all the posts in the thread I WASN'T IN and wouldn't have expected you to read all the posts in the other thread either. BUT we're all in one game here, not separate threads, and yeah fine if you miss a post. I haven't read every post either, but getting pissy at me asking you what you think about a post someone made AND let's not mistake something here buddy, you're mischaracterizing me. I literally never ever said that Bork ignored that and don't think he'd do it as town.

How the conversation actually went was:

What do you think of the reasons that people have provided for thinking Titus is town. Unless I'm missing something, that's missing and I don't really understand why.

re: people's reasons for townreading Titus - point to one in particular that we can talk about. I remember Prism saying they thought Titus might be town but I can't find the post right now and if I remember correctly it mostly read as "is being too unbelievably stubborn or dense or something the like" to NOT be town which I just didn't really empathize with when put forward.

Oh but prism wrote a decently in depth post on Titus yesterday, and I thought you'd might interact with that since you have prism as a decently strong town read.

If you didn't read it, that's all you have to say.

But actually gonna stop here. Interacting with you in the first place was a mistake.

[Tammy]

I haven't read every post either, but getting pissy at me asking you what you think about a post someone made AND let's not mistake something here buddy,

like i apologize - that segment was to prism, not you

=/

I'm sorry, i'm apparently in a bitchier mood than I realized.

The rest of the post was to me so I thought that was too, and I got hot that you said I mischaracterized you while doing it in turn to me, and getting angry at me for something I didn't say and a position I didn't hold.

I'm sorry.

[Tammy]

But actually gonna stop here. Interacting with you in the first place was a mistake.

Actually I don't want to leave this alone w/o saying:

I don't want to walk on eggshells around you either. This particular instance was us getting our wires crossed.
But like I might egregiously mischaracterize something you do legitimately later
and I don't want the answer to be for you to avoid me.
I respect you a ton as a player and a person but I'd appreciate some attempt to work through that rather than shut me down (and honestly I feel awful about this interaction now and I don't feel like anything I said there should've led to this)

I wasn't shutting you down. I'm cooking dinner, but you didn't. Our wires got crossed and I thought you were trying to insinuate something you weren't.

I'm sorry I was bitchy. I respect you as a player and as a person too, and I really really want us to be able to realize it if we're both town.

[Tammy]

Prism - I'm planning to work on reading this week after I eat dinner, so hopefully I'll have more thoughts in a bit.

[Tammy]

I’m starting to feel tired, so I might not make it that far tonight, but I’m going to try to at least make it through Mastina iso and end of day to review how the wagons shook out. I hurt my ankle, nothing big just a strained Achilles’ tendon, which means a couple things I had planned for tomorrow are cancelled, so I’ll have more time than I otherwise would to get caught up there and today.

Decent chance I fall asleep while read Mastina though, so if I don’t post again I passed out lol

[Tammy]

Giant wall for Tammy, my responses are in red.

Spoiler: Regarding bork

Prism - I do owe you my thoughts on Bork though before I get started.

I don't know what to think of bork right now. I'm not leaving this game day with a townread, and that's extremely disturbing.

I'll be around more after my class is over, but did this happen to start when i said that your post could come from scum? Because this is the first I've heard of that kind of sentiment from you.

Like I'm sorry but wagon movement has been extremely weird in the latter half of this day and a town flip on mastina here, especially if Titus flips scum later on in the game, puts that under scrutiny for me.

Explain to me why that's unreasonable.

So initially this read really skeevy to me because the "oh do you not have a townread on me because x" just felt so off. It didn't feel right because Bork has felt off and oddly kinda angry all game and not town, so it felt like the kind of deflecting emotional manipulation he did to ffery in Illicit Substances.

Why it feels off are things like this:

If I'm reading things correctly, the post where he suggests sangres vote could come from scum was this one:

If you're talking about the recent votes on mastina, who specifically are you spooked by on that wagon?

Honestly? Everyone except Bell and Battle Mage because they weren't interested in Titus to begin with:

any of
Sangres 1716
Prism 1725
your 1831

Feel to me like they could possibly be stay-off-my-buddy votes just because none of them have any real "I've changed my mind about Titus" to them, and if mastina flips green there basically has to be scum in there

Which came after this:

The only thing its done really is made it slightly harder to read Tammy and KTT.

Are you referring to the post restriction? And if you read me as scum after we claimed IC, I don't think you have a handle on what town me looks like, don't think you'd be able to tell in more posts, and I'm not going to go all scary-face to get you to read me correctly. But if you are referring to the post restriction. The only thing that the post restriction has done is had me put together posts into one that I wouldn't normally bother with. I'd still have not been around much this week because I was busy with work stuff.

~~~

Ffery - I think maybe I understand where you got your original thought? When I mentioned not having you as town to town paean level, it was just a reference of my strength of read. In Tenet, when you made the town paean post, I knew you were town. I got paranoid here and there even after we died when I was somewhat keeping up in case we came back, but I always came back to that post as my tether for me just knowing you were town. So, when I referenced that it just meant that my strength of read was not what it was in Tenet, and I wouldn't want what pushed you to that reaction for me to have that kind of safety in a read.

I just wouldn't bet the game on any of my reads right this moment.

How do you feel about bork?

pedit: that's a total mood. Also don't bet on nacho right this minute. He wanted to "take a nap" a few hours ago because he's got a weird schedule tomorrow and I tried to wake him up from said nap and his response was something like why fight the inevitable or some shit like that. He'll probably do something stupid like wake up at 3 am and totally fuck himself over for work, so maybe you hear from him then.

I had this moment earlier today where I asked myself if there's an unequivocally town post in bork's iso to hold onto and pin down this cloud of a read I have right now, and I felt like maybe there isn't. And then he made a post that was a new thought -- a new question that nobody else had asked and I hadn't thought to ask myself and I thought "there he is! and oh look, he's asking a trajectory^tm question!"

And then Math came in and dumped on it and used it to chain bork and Titus together (with Prism?) and to push the idea of bork and mastina as partners apart.

Like there's not a world where bork just noticed the discrepancy and questioned Mastina.

Anyway, bork still worries me a little. He feels distant, maybe preoccupied.

And yeah, that is a mood. I feel like I've been in too much of a holding pattern, when I should just play onward and sync if and when.

Bell's made some decent points and my read's grown shakier over time, not stronger.

So the Bork suspicion did not come out of nowhere. In fact, sangres had never really expressed a town read on Bork other than liking the post in which he said that they didn't have to worry about him that game and kinda townreading it.

So it felt like a way to jump at her to push her a bit off her footing without recognizing that she'd already been wondering about him.

This felt extremely town to me at the time, and on most rereads. I can see a world where bork is trying to fish out where he's going wrong, but bork had previously been pretty annoyed by several ~not ideal~ suggestions by sangres beforehand, such as in 1088 and with the voteswaps around mastina. The disappointment and demand line up well with someone who has high expectations of both players in the sangres slot.

A few days ago I was thinking about this again, and I started to doubt the above a little bit. Years ago Bork and I hydrad in a game where ffery and nacho hydrad, and while ffery was always iffy about me nacho read me very well and both of them read Bork very well. But in this game, both of them were concerned about us even though we were both being very town throughout the game. And both of us were very freaked out about their question marks on us, and it caused us to have some suspicion on them for positionality reasons and there was some friction.

So when I remembered that, I'm not completely sure that his reaction wouldn't have been similar if he were town too, and I'm not sure what to do with my original reaction to his response to ffery.

Spoilering that because this post is too big as it is, but a couple things read off. I don't like deflection onto me in his spiffeh thing before this post which he's done more than once now. It didn't feel like a search for selective scumhunting, which would make sense sort of, but more of a deflection that feels scummy. I don't really get his anger over the concern that sangres showed suspicion on bork and now they're dead so hmm, and really don't understand the angry "I crumbed I was visiting them" as if we're supposed to know that bit.

The prior sentence confuses me because both are extremely understandable things to be frustrated about, not that people should know it but that bork

softed visiting sangres, wanted to visit them, wanted to townblock, felt bad about being wrong on the mastina wagon, only to have them die instead

. To be blunt, the sangres visit claim is absolutely brilliant as scum.

I just reread through his iso and I don't even see it knowing it's supposed to be here.

That said I would like to see the specific soft too LMAO

I mean yeah, it's annoying when you're town and people accuse you of this. I expected to get it myself once I saw that sangres was dead because nacho was there and most people don't understand nacho and my goals with each other concerning mafia. Think that Bork isn't really understanding where and why ffery did get concerned about me and that she ultimately was fine so it's weird that Bork deflected there and acting like it's the same. Beyond that I'd really appreciate his spiffeh thoughts that weren't just so centered around spiffeh's thoughts on bork.

I guess you kind of get it here but I just...don't really see the same scum intent here that you do, honestly. I reviewed the deflection about you to Spiffeh. I can

see

why he'd say it as scum, but I see the town bork world too, and I don't think he's seriously pushing you?

I'm going to make that last sentence and immediately be a hypocrite because I hate his entire paragraph about me. The nothing concrete thing is full of cringe because that's often the way that scum talk about me and my posts. I'm not playing really any differently than I've played the past few games, and he was reading us in tenet based on my posts before we claimed IC, and his paranoia on us there felt more free flowing and organic. And the way that he got his initial read on me felt really really natural in tenet. I'm missing that there. I just read over my iso to see if this, and his earlier post, was a fair interpretation of my posts, and I don't think it is. I've made a few posts about my approach, not a lot. My claim wasn't really unprompted, I initially thought Cakez and I couldn't exist together but my sense of balance sucks so I thought I'd put it out there for people more adept than me to judge. I don't know it feels a bit off and my place on his list feels positional even thought I don't really have a problem with where I am in his list. I don't know if that makes sense.

I think what you're missing is that you've been very demonstrative as to your

process

, such as in the "all mixed up" post and in 1087, but the result is more often than not ambivalence. For the most part, I'm the only one you've really gone to bat for, which is great, but Bork-and I-both really want to see you go to bat on other slots and take stronger stances (Not that you have to fake them, but that this is the missing link for me, and I suspect for bork too)

I don't like some of his focus on mathblade. He's acting like people can't be irritated with the mathblade interaction issue, which weirdly makes me feel like he's not town trying to actually read people and the game through this. I feel like if he were town he'd understand the frustration a bit more. The focus later on mathblade being town so the wagon shouldn't be there feels like an easy thing to pop in and plunk down about. We're not bronzing mathblade, we all know we're not actually bronzing mathblade no matter how we want to policy here and there, so it feels like just something easy to pop in for.

I, and several other players, have actively pitched just going "fuck it mathblade ig" and while this might be free for borkscum, him telling us to stop being morons 100% makes sense imo

BUT through all that, our poe isn't all that terribly different, which makes me wonder if we are not understanding each other this game. I would not have pooky or greyice as high as he has them as confidently as he does. And I'm not as confident that Titus is scum as he is but I definitely had some issues with her day one. If I could muster the ability to do a reads list though it wouldn't be so completely different that there's no way we're looking at the same game.

So, I've come down to not really knowing what to do with this read.

You also seem to think bork's ISO is mostly focused on Titus. While he scumreads her Day 1, he absolutely does not spend all day on her, noticeably calls out mastina at great times, and had a great point on Cakez that I 100% agreed with in that his "inb4 I get eliminated for flavor" rang EXTREMELY legitimate. He doesn't capitalize on your claim, he once again makes mastina viable when she's almost out of the woods via Bell/sangres unvotes, Posts like 1012 and 1309 are great.

Overall, I think you are town but I am very concerned about your slot for some of the reasons regarding ambivalence/not going to bat against others, your posturing towards a potential Cakez switch, and a bit about the spat today. You are 100% not above playing hurt to engineer townreads, and the attitude around bork right now is vaguely familiar. I've also had the fear Day 1 that you leaned into the meta discussion about me because you thought it was a good way to get a townread, rather than actively holding onto it to get a stronger read on me. You were 100% spot on that I don't take the mechanical claim risk as scum, and that goes such a long way that I'm willing to just give you a pass on your interactions with my slot in general, but the sangres read definitely did not line up with your earlier perception of me. Lastly, this is a bit of a reach but:

IDK if you missed it Tammy but the reason sangres was killed is because they had successfully linked up with MathBlade, scum couldn't risk it and it is primarily thanks to MathBlade that we voted scum Day 1 and are in a good position today Day 2.

I am sure it had a lot less to do with sangres being obvious town all day, townblocking with you, me, and a few others, and successfully hammering the scum despite vocal opposition.

I do remember now that when I checked in and voted Mastina it was because I was sheeping

you, Sangres and bell

mathblade, thanks for setting me straight!

It's very unclear how much this matches up to reality.

Prism - Will read the Bork bit, but wanted to address the stuff about me first.

I am not above emotional manipulation as scum you are correct. A couple things, that game was the last scum game I payed before rolling it in flying scumsman, I was, there too, in a hydra with nacho, which does alter my confidence some. You might remember that I also dipped from that game and midscummers around the same time, and just stopped posting. That game was one of my last games before I took a coupe year break from mafia. I unleashed on spiffeh my frustrations with mafia and how people were scumhunting. My annoyance there was real, and I unleashed my frustrations about people’s expectations about me and how I was supposed to play. I went through a period where if I didn’t post in rvs, wasntfunny enough in rvs, wasn’t townread by everyone posting by page two, wasn’t happy enough or mad in the right way early game I got pushed for being scum. At that time, mafia was crushing me and I unleashed it all at that point. The only reason that might have been town read in that game is because I’m an easily frustrated person who gets bitchy as town.

I don’t think that’s at all similar to the issue I had with Bork. We got our wires crossed, and I misunderstood. Much of his day one was centered around titus and the titus read. That doesn’t mean he did nothing else, and all I wanted and still want was for him to flesh out that read to better read Bork because for how strong it was day one it didn’t feel very fleshed out.

Heh I expected to get called out for that cakez post. I almost did move to cakez in that post, but I kinda talked myself out of it by the end of that post, and then I walked away from the thread so I wouldn’t keep waffling, I was around and reading while watching warehouse 13, but I have a very bad habit of waffling and jumping around end of day one which I’m trying to curb, I decided my vote was better off where it was and I wasn’t posting again unless it was needed at deadline.

I’m not sure what the sangres read with regards to you. If you’re ire talking about the expectations, I originally thought when you said if scum ffery would play up paranoia on you to mean that you had recognized the way that ffery displays fake paranoia when scum based on the normal you guys played, But you meant something completely different.

What’s funny is I actually expected you to scum read me for my thoughts on your meta. In part because I thought you’d think I was trying to manipulate you or you’d just get freaked out that I was building meta theories about how to read you. I’m not sure I’d have explained all that at the time, or who I’d have held it for, but after I said I was townleaning you for stupid reasons you asked why it would be stupid to town read someone for the flavor claim. Not sure if or when I would have talked about my meta thoughts because I don’t know who I would have been using it to get a read on in this game. (That’s how I remember the convo happening, might have something out of sequence, but I just remember thinking welp once I explain this prisms gonna scum read me in return.)

yeah that last bit is a stretch. I was heavily leaning towards voting Mastina anyway. The day before I voted I told ffery I was rereading through mastina and that’s probably where my vote was gonna end up, but then the next day I read through cakez and thought that’s where my vote was gonna end up. I got really frustrated with the thread the day I made my vote, and before I voted I looked at the wagons and greyice, you, sangres, and bell, someone else maybe were on Mastina, and you, sangres and bell were a,omg the people I felt best about in the game, Considering my own misgivings on Mastina I decided you guys being on the wagon helped me stop waffling there a bit. So, it was a bit hyperbolic of me to say I sheeped you guys, which came in part as a shorthand way to express my frustrations with mathblade stake there, but you guys being on the wagon was absolutely a part of why I ended up there,

[Tammy]

Lacks bite is yeah a good distinction.

[Tammy]

Okay I'm on a computer for a few minutes while I'm icing my ankle and then it's back to my tablet and the possibility of passing out lol.

I'm pulling out your red quotes Prism:

This felt extremely town to me at the time, and on most rereads. I can see a world where bork is trying to fish out where he's going wrong, but bork had previously been pretty annoyed by several ~not ideal~ suggestions by sangres beforehand, such as in 1088 and with the voteswaps around mastina. The disappointment and demand line up well with someone who has high expectations of both players in the sangres slot.

Yeah they definitely had interactions, and quite frankly the suggestion that he's responding to in 1088 is one I remember not really agreeing with or paying much attention to at the time, but you giving the artifact to Bork never really interested me in the way that it maybe should have. I thought your early play seemed pretty town and didn't think you were the kind of player that would teehee give their partner an artifact and flavor claim in the beginning of the game, and the way you interacted with Bork about the artifact felt town to me and reinforced my initial town read. So really all I thought was that you were unlikely to be partners, so that was her inquiry and I just shrugged my shoulders about it. But the point there is that she had expressed some suspicion previously; it wasn't coming from nowhere.

The prior sentence confuses me because both are extremely understandable things to be frustrated about, not that people should know it but that bork softed visiting sangres, wanted to visit them, wanted to townblock, felt bad about being wrong on the mastina wagon, only to have them die instead. To be blunt, the sangres visit claim is absolutely brilliant as scum

It felt like he was getting after spiffeh for not knowing that. And that seemed a bit unfair and odd to expect him to know that.

I guess you kind of get it here but I just...don't really see the same scum intent here that you do, honestly. I reviewed the deflection about you to Spiffeh. I can see why he'd say it as scum, but I see the town bork world too, and I don't think he's seriously pushing you?

Hmmm. I think you're thinking that when I'm looking at these things that I'm saying Bork is scum here for doing this. I do think that a town bork would also push spiffeh for something that seemed like selective scumhunting, but it felt odd to me to blanket compare the two as the same. ffery did get paranoid a couple times, I knew she would, and wanted nacho to give her support there. Which, side note, if Nacho had the tiniest glimmer that i was scum here I'd have been dead the moment afternoon started lol. That's besides the point, but it felt odd to me that it was just a blanket comparison when I don't think they were exactly the same. I wasn't meaning he was pushing me for that. It was a problem I had.

But I think where we might be getting crossed here is that I'm not writing this to say this is why Bork is scum. I'm writing this as a way of working out my read on Bork. (I'm now remembering the other night I gave a possible solve that included Bork. I forgot about that. That might be coloring why you think this is a scum case instead of me trying to work out my read on Bork. I did feel that solve in the moment. I don't think that solve is right.)

I think what you're missing is that you've been very demonstrative as to your process, such as in the "all mixed up" post and in 1087, but the result is more often than not ambivalence. For the most part, I'm the only one you've really gone to bat for, which is great, but Bork-and I-both really want to see you go to bat on other slots and take stronger stances (Not that you have to fake them, but that this is the missing link for me, and I suspect for bork too)

Yeah, that's me. I don't think that Bork would expect anything different than that or really stronger stances. Nobody who knows me really would, especially not early. There are some games where my reads come easier; xenoblade was one such game but it moved so fast and made so many pages that I was mostly hip firing my reads and they just happened to be right. I'm probably one of the biggest wafflers you will ever meet; it's so well known that people tried to get a title for me years ago. My posts a lot of the time are me trying to process and work out what I'm seeing and thinking; it squicks people out sometimes who don't know me because they think I'm trying to make a show of what I'm thinking until they get used to me. And then sometimes people will still get after me for posting a lot about nothing. But I work best with people who understand my process and work with it. I don't expect everyone to, and I'm capable of getting things done on my own, but one thing I've always appreciated about Spiffeh is that he's been good at picking out some of the important things in my ramblings and working with me. And nacho's always good about pointing out which of my thoughts are dumb. (You said you don't know how to read me really, and here's one thing. Once you figure out what my wheel's turning looks like vs what I'm trying to make it look like my wheel's are turning, I'm pretty easy to figure out. I do lack a certain bite as scum that is present when I get frustrated as town usually, especially with a friend, but rarely if ever as scum in that way. I'd point out some other things, but my luck is going to run out with drawing town soon I know it, and I'd rather not make it easier to catch me than it already will be.)

You are a strong read I have. I also have a strong townread on Bell, and I had a decently strong townread on Sangres day one. I do also have a decently strong town read on Spiffeh though I do have a little paranoia that I could be wrong there that I keep just going shh shh shh don't worry about it. I do also feel decently strong about Mathblade being town, but there's a little paranoia there too mostly because of how strongly bell scum reads mathblade and one of my mafia weaknesses is feeling I might be wrong when someone else expresses a strong read. Actually now that I think about it, I've had town and scum pools, and I think they've been okayish strong for me even thought they've been in flux. So now I'm just rambling and not sure I'm making sense. (This is not to say I never have strong scum reads. I do sometimes, and I tunnel and will push why they're scum, but still a good number of my posts are going to be me making sense of my view of people and the game.) I take some getting used to.

I, and several other players, have actively pitched just going "fuck it mathblade ig" and while this might be free for borkscum, him telling us to stop being morons 100% makes sense imo

I was one of the people who said I'd hammer there out of frustration, so yeah I know. I can't find the post that I thought existed in which he was scumreading people for wanting to policy there, so I maybe made that up.

But I think here is that all of this stuff he can also do as town, and I'm aware of that. But it's a town read I don't/didn't have and one I'd really like to have, and one I thought I'd have by now. And now I'm not even sure I care about any of my thoughts anymore because I feel bad that I got pissy when I'm trying not to be such a bitch in mafia and get so emotionally invested that I get toxic. But I do like that he looked at the old game you posted and made a comparison. I do like his end reaction to my reaction in some sense, I don't really want to be more townread because I got bitchy I want it because my play is town, but recognizing that if I were scum here I'd probably have used all that build up to put a vote on him is probably what I would have done. Maybe. Probably. I've definitely done something like that before.

Now that I've made a huge mess of thoughts about me and Bork and my approach, I'm going to stop. It's late and I'm going to get back to reading mastina until I pass out.

[Tammy]

Pooky - I don't know if you are still scumreading cakez, but do you really think that mastina would park vote her partner for the entirety of day one while refusing to really explain that read? I'm trying to make sense of what mastina was doing yesterday. It kinda feels like she knew she was going down yesterday and spent the day in antispew, but that doesn't line up with the mastina I used to know at all. Things change, and it has been years, but the mastina that I knew was very confident in her ability to make it through a day and get to endgame with the entire town town reading her doesn't add up to that. Does mastina not have that confidence anymore? All in all, I'm not quite sure what to do with Mastina's iso. The positions all feel odd and disjointed like she just wanted to make sure that there was nothing to glean from it upon her inevitable flip.

Pedit: My read on Tammy is that she's spiky and that I don't wish to be hurt.

I'm really just a fucking sweetheart though

[Tammy]

I don't really think VCA works because I haven't seen a single piece of consistent evidence that it does. I can't find a research paper on it. I can't find a statistical analysis on it. I cannot find a statistically significant finding about it.

So.

On further looking, while I think it's possible Pooky tried to save Mastina through pushing a Sircakez miselim. I actually find Pooky pretty townie overall It's not a town bin. But I have some trouble imagining Pooky responding to Mastina the way he did out the gate. He's usually more tolerant of his scum partners out the gate? Maybe?

*holds up microphone to Pookythemagicalbear* Could you comment on your initial reaction to Mastina and self-meta dazzle me with why you can't possibly be scum this game because of X, Y, and Z?

Pedit: My read on Tammy is that she's spiky and that I don't wish to be hurt.

I wish my only experience with Pooky wasn't with him as scum. Whenever he makes a push on like cakez for instance I'm like that's so similar to Tenet and sort of smoke-filled but not exactly. And I don't have the way he does a town push for a distinction.

That said I did just scroll through the reactions that you're mentioning and they don't feel overly prickly and he did think it could be nai and would vote mastina at end of day if he had to, but I also scrolled through Tenet real quick and he didn't really talk about his partners much. I didn't read the game, so it was just a review of his iso, but he didn't look to interact with them much at all. He definitely didn't have them in his town reads when he turnstiles day one. If he'd have voted there or pushed there, i think all my pooky concerns would be gone until he burns that piece of meta I think is correct to the ground.

[Tammy]

I didn't independently look at cakez, just tried to make sense of mastina's positioning on him and if it was a reason to clear/condemn him. I got nothing. By my understanding of Mastina several years ago, I wouldn't think they were partnered. But I don't really understand anything Mastina did so I'm afraid to lock him on town based on that. I would not put it past her to strong town read a partner though. Basically I came away from it figuring that people's reactions and interactions to mastina might be more telling that her own posts. I definitely don't know her well enough anymore to figure that out.

I did like Cakez' post about having anxiety about the pooky case and that he was going to step away from it. Just gut liked it.

Anyway I'll get to reviewing end of day yesterday and pick up the parts of today I missed later. It's super late now and I should sleep.

[Tammy]

there are other players that can read me correctly.

I used to be fairly decent at it. I wonder if I still am.

Do you have a read on GreyIce?

[Tammy]

Titus - How well does mathbladeread you typically?

[Tammy]

I don't have a townread on Tammy, largely on account of regular insertion of RL excuses, especially when related to demotivation and lack of participation. That's a scumtell to me. I reckon I am in the minority reading that as scum behavior.

But can you answer this?

there are other players that can read me correctly.

I used to be fairly decent at it. I wonder if I still am.

Do you have a read on GreyIce?

[Tammy]

A chainsaw is when someone attacks the attacker of someone else.

For example, Adam attacks Brian. Charlie then attacks Adam usually for his attack on Brian. That's a chainsaw.

Sometimes a chainsaw is from scum defending a partner but not always. It can and commonly is town defending town.

Catching up now.

A chainsaw defense is where scum

defends a buddy

by attacking their attacker. Because otherwise, attacking someone who is attacking someone else is called

playing a game of mafia.

Because any post that says 'this argument is crappy, what are you doing' is FUCKING PLAYING THE GAME.

This is "reasons for voting are scummy" except fucking serious. Which you realized midway through, because you FUCKING REALIZED THE SAME THING I SAID ABOVE.

GreyICE is someone I should review. The willing to murder me and chainsaw defense was odd. mastina's play around me was odd. Scum's play around me as a whole was odd.

This is "I read my buddy's ISO and wow I look like shit after that flip."

You can’t seriously be arguing looking outside of Titus after these posts.

Seriously Grey?

When you're right, you're right.

Vote: Titus

How much of your accusation that titus read Mastina iso and realized she looked bad is hyperbole and how much is that something you’re actually pushing?

[Tammy]

Cakez - Thank you for writing your case, not necessarily because it tells me anything new about Pooky, but I kinda want to put to bed my suspicions on you for it, I think.

THESIS
Pooky's entire day 1 strategy revolved around buddying people and coasting until he got pressure from me for it. After that point, he dedicated the rest of his day to an essentially OMGUS push on me INCLUDING SIGNIFICANTLY AT THE KEY POINT WHERE IT WAS EITHER MASTINA OR I WHO WAS GOING TO BE ELIMMED.
He did not perform ANY original scumhunting day 1 - all of his pushes day 1 consist of either sheeping or attacking people who attacked him.
He used being leashed to LLD as an excuse to not take responsibility for his vote.
He repeatedly expressed fake-ass indignation that anyone could be scumreading him - despite all of the above.

Not on my computer at the moment, so I’m just pulling that. I agree that all of these are problematic from Pooky, they are in large part why he’s been giving me problems this game, and every time he tries to use the Mastina protocol or whatever it is to say he’s confirmed town, I want to reach through my screen and rip the stuffing outta that bear. And while I don’t think typically scum actually try to abdicate responsibility for their vote in such a blatant way, the leashing thing is stupid and juvenile and I wish they’d stop.

So this is mostly to say that I read your case, I understand and some of those things bother me too, except the buddying as a buddies myself it’s not inherently scummy, but I’m not entirely sure it’s from scum. I wish I had experience with Pooky town to know if my concerns aren’t just playstyle rather than alignment indicative. I have appreciated his thread health moments that haven’t felt like posturing. And I liked his post about the mason issue because in a sense it felt like he was opening himself up to suspicion on that part, and we both know that he’ll happily pretend to be a mason as scum. And the moments in Between the above feel natural and I like his presence at those times. The possibility that he could be a mason too is enough for me to consider he’s just town here as well.

[Tammy]

Titus - How well does mathbladeread you typically?

He only reads me as town as scum. As town, he scumreads disagreement. He doubles down on bad logic, even when proven false. As scum, he must fake it. He'll scumread me if I am right.

Hmmm that’s kinda interesting. I asked because I’m trying to make sense of your dynamic. My only experience with the two of you, or even mathblade pretty sure, was a game you guys hydrad in years ago.

Unless I’m misunderstanding you seem like you read him as decently town but would policy if the overposting gets out f hand

But he seems pretty sure on scum you, and you don’t seem perturbed by that, which I found a bit interesting. So I thought if he normally gets you right but is wrong here, and you’re not annoyed or suspicious in return that could be telling, but if he’s not really that great at reading you then maybe it doesn’t phase you at all, and if you were scum and he was pushing you as scum would you not be a bit more aggressive in response? Because I know as scum you’re a fighter. You used to be a fighter as town too but tenet suggests that a lot of us are not the same players we used to be. But I was looking at the wagons today, and you’ve been the leading one for the majority of it and you seem reserved to it, and I’m thinking about sign ups where you and nacho talked about wishing for a scum role on and being burnt out on town, and I’m now wondering if that’s not a part of your reaction to the reads your email getting.

[Tammy]

Don’t know where email came from in that post, I think my tablet has a mind of its own,

[Tammy]

hey so

Prism what's your feelings on bork

Can you talk about your read on greyice at some point?

I’ll admit to not being the best greyice reader. I’m pretty sure one of the only times I got his alignment correct was when we were masons, and most of the other times he’s been in my possible or decently strong townreads as scum, so a little help would be nice because he’s not in my town reads right now.

My first concern was the way he called you scum, and a few times threw out the possibility of you as scum. He does not scum read you. I went back and looked at alisae and pine I think it was, which I had loosely followed, and he clearly scum read you there and pointed out why, whereas here there is no bite. Here’s my question is this just a kinda trolling interaction he’s having with you because why not and that’s totally cool if so OR is he feigning a bit of paranoia at you?)

I thought he started the Mastina wagon yesterday but looking back over things that isn’t the case. He was third after mathblade and bell though mathblade didn’t stick around for long, and his vote on Mastina was almost from a dare by Mastina to get on the wagon, which he did. I do very much like his interactions with Mastina because he called her out on all her bullshit, but I would have expected him to rally the troops onto Mastina more than he did.

His titus push feels off, mainly the argument that she read Mastina iso and saw how bad she looked and was responding out of that oh shit kinda of way, which doesn’t ring true when titus was aware of Mastina s treatment of her yesterday, and recognizing that scums treatment of you was wrong can easily come from town too. (I know that’s not the crux of his case but that bit hit wrong)

His bit about prism being scum and he got there by accident and is just that good hit wrong too.

Are these dumb concerns?

[Tammy]

friendship ended w/ petapan

whatever me/nacho even are ended w/ nacho

now tammy is my new best friend

[Tammy]

Nacho is home for a little while after being out of town for a week before he leaves for another week. We were going to play mafia independently when he got home, but he and LLD were very rudely shot just before he got home, so we're doing something else.

I'm not sure about DGB. I don't really understand their read on me? Yes, that's a scumtell that they use pretty regularly, but they stopped using scumtells like that on me quite a while ago and always said they can read my tone, and it came after a good 12-hour chunk of time where I was here and posting. I thought maybe interaction would help with my read there, and I was interested in their GreyIce read since I'm pretty sure they played together a bit in the before time, but I think I'm on their foe list now and so I guess I don't get a response.

I did skim their play in wall street and that's the type of play I mostly expect whereas here it feels different, but I do not know what to make of that.

Oh I think i know what they're hinting to prism mayyyybe, but if it happens to be that DGB gave Prism an artifact then there is scum in DGB or Cakez. (I don't think that is, but Prism's response left me wondering if that could be it.)

LLD - Thanks! And fair enough.

I thought I had something else but it's late and I'm tired

[Tammy]

VOTE: prism
Still a town read and my new best friend!

I don't really understand how yesterday went down. I picked up the game to start playing shortly after the thread locked I think. I thought DGB looked a little town just from the woe is me sentiment which felt real, but I'm not sure how I would have felt in the moment really if I were posting. If Titus turns out to be scum, there's maybe something to be learned? But, I'm not really scumreading Titus though, so don't really think it was a scum move to move to DGB.

Still feel good about my town reads on Prism, Bell, and Spiffeh (thought think if there's scum in my town reads he could be it, I just really don't think so.), still feel reasonably good about math and Titus and I think if both of them were independently in the game I'd not feel paranoid about feeling good about both of them and my concern stems from their concern on each other. I don't know if that makes sense at all.

I wish I felt better about cakez, bork and Pooky. (Yes, I know math). Some good posts, some good feels, but I don't feel as good about them as I would like to.

And I really don't know about Dunnstral, Battle Mage, and GreyIce though I do lean scum on GreyIce.

Spiffeh - What did you think about Prism's think with GreyICE yesterday and the post I made to LLD about GreyIce yesterday?

I don't know what to do about the information that I have. I'm not sure if it is alignment relevant at the moment unless one of the people I have information on lie about it. But that has to come up independently.

So, bleh. I'll be back later.

[Tammy]

I don't know what to do about the information that I have. I'm not sure if it is alignment relevant at the moment unless one of the people I have information on lie about it. But that has to come up independently.

So, bleh. I'll be back later.

this kind of bumbling vibes town with me. Ok Tammy, you have my notional artefact vote.

VOTE: Tammy

also Tammy, can I just check you aren't claiming same exact role as Cakez? because if you are, that would be worth sharing.

No, in fact end of day one I thought we had incompatible roles, but I think we're both nerfed enough that they're not incompatible.

I'm trying to decide if this is a bit of a dumbbell I want to call town. It's not impossible to be faked, but it feels kinda natural.

[Tammy]

I don't know what to do about the information that I have. I'm not sure if it is alignment relevant at the moment unless one of the people I have information on lie about it. But that has to come up independently.

It might be worth considering having people who have used artifacts claim. My impression seems to be that artifacts are mostly one-shot, though I'd have to ask as this is slightly ambiguous for the Trident. This means there's little to fear about outing powers for the coming nights since we're working just with the past. I think Day 4 might be a good time, but also that depends on you still being alive.

Definitely should not be claiming this stuff right now but worth thinking on.

This is a good idea.

Also I see later that you're considering putting your vote on Titus today. Can you talk about what changed for you?

[Tammy]

OHHH I forgot she thought the flavor case was a good one and kept trying to direct math onto that flavor case. I should probably reread the game. I forgot I wasn't a fan of her day one.

[Tammy]

Hey guys ladies and enbies going to be doing a PT notes here in a bit so can get feedback post game,

I am kinda wondering assuming Dunn town Titus scum bell town (going to roll with this much as my gut is screaming No! You dummy dumb dumb) wouldn’t this make Spiffeh scum? Because he locked Dunn town and his reluctance yesterday wasn’t like yours and Tammy’s.

Thoughts?

Do you all think Titus is scum here and trying to shade me?

But Spiffeh had Dunn scum on day one and is still kinda iffy on him.

I skimmed over you guys' iso in the Wall Street game that just ended, and now I really just don't know what to do with your reads on each other or interaction.

Except Titus seemed to be having more fun that game, and I'm not sure what to think about that.

[Tammy]

I need to reread Titus here. I only read the parts where you guys interacted and read each other to acquaint myself with what that is like. Titus is not really playing how I've seen her play as scum or town. There's a part of me that thinks she'd have more fire as scum whereas here she almost seems ready to roll over and be eliminated.

[Tammy]

Bork - Does Bell's scum read on you bother you?

[Tammy]

Mine is just a general free floating "what if you're wrong" that sometimes breezes through my ears, and then I think about how Nacho townread you pretty well and he was the one who had more concerns about you in Tenet that I think Tammy you're being silly. If I had anything concrete that bothered me, I'd say so. I'm rereading through end of day to see what Bork's concerns were and I don't share them.

So, I'm sorry for the little voice that creeps up behind me if you are town like I believe you are. I know that's frustrating for sure.

[Tammy]

Tammy take on Titus is like a remix of other people's opinions from day 1.

???

I'm remembering my opinions on Titus from day one. I'm not sure what you're on about.

[Tammy]

I need to reread Titus here. I only read the parts where you guys interacted and read each other to acquaint myself with what that is like. Tit

us is not really playing how I've seen her play as scum or town.

There's a part of me that thinks she'd have more fire as scum whereas here she almost seems ready to roll over and be eliminated.

Please substantiate your confidence in Tammy and KTT.
That doesn’t begin and end with it being a good idea to TR the two people who aren’t voting anybody.

Sir Cakez I’ve seen flashes of townieness, but that’s it. He’s also been a source of shade and been attacked in turn. Some of his scum instincts seem to have flipped. For example he would probably as scum push quiet to be the elimination this dp but is instead doing sort of the opposite. Titus’s attack on that, I’m not sure where she’s coming from.

Titus

: no fucking clue. Consider me disordered and discombobulated in regards to her play this game. I agreed with your take that Titus is not playing like scum or town her until you asked and then it got more complicated and muddled.

@Mala, You're pretty right. I don't care.

@Math, Your post asking me to do things isn't in good faith. I just spent hours catching up and your reply is that I'm not "doing things". I asked for your thoughts on Mastina's prism case and I got three posts of nonsense. If you were reading my posts with any eye to listen, you'd know why I am suspecting Cakez at least partially. There was zero follow up to his request for Prism's meta.

I didn't directly say this in my catchup but I feel your townread on Cakez, like your other reads, is largely political. There's no nuance in your reads. I don't really feel like engaging you when doing so will generate 3 posts to my every one and flood out the thread.

Are you okay? Like this doesn’t match town you or scum you.

You’re not getting my reads right in your post (esp Cakez who is a scumread). You did catch up yes but you’re usually more active. Not only that but you on one hand are saying if you knew there was a post limit you wouldn’t have signed up yet are railing on me for posting a lot despite having been under attack all day. You’re incoherent at best.

I am not sure what you’re meaning by nuance but I think stopping tons of TvT fights while trying to keep things together requires nuance and coordination. You literally said “Hey you’re not working with your town reads” about the Dunn vote. It’s like you’re all over the map.

Normally you’re way more driven than this and gung-ho. Your play reminds me of newb scum and that is not you.

Though it should be noted that on math specifically he was pretty much on a constant "titus is scum" Before shifting to Cakez > Titus in terms of kills. After that particular take, I'm not sure why his read of Titus seemed so mobile, sometimes he was lurk warm, other times seemed convinced, bu he has mostly been in that range all game. So maybe not that much variance.

I'm confused? I don't get the point of your original post or here? Is your contention that I copied posts from other people from the first day without somehow remembering day one and need to reread? Do you think I have a great memory of other people's posts but not my own thoughts? Are you trying to claim that I haven't been trying to read Titus? I just don't get it.

I mean I'm not a replacement. I have over a hundred mentions of Titus in my iso. Feel free to see if my summary here is a summary of how I've been trying to make sense of Titus all game.

[Tammy]

My range with Titus Bell is I tend to scumread her a bit too much and her being my sister is that I know she is going through shit. So like I scumread her but I don’t trust it unless other do. Like her meta is shifting and she is a wildcard. I don’t know if she’s trying to replicate Titus moonlogic here as scum but town Titus was way better when she was working with Mastina and Nero. It’s like here she can’t be arsed to do the think she does well. You should remember that game Bell she was pretty much town hero. There’s no trying here to work with anyone. It’s off.

I just think of her as scum being a bit more aggressive. I don't know how outdated this is but even when she replaced into FGO, she was pushing against reads and at least fighting even though she was up against a strong town that had pretty accurate reads.

[Tammy]

@Tammy, That's a lot of questions. My meaning was that your read does not appear to have progressed. I am aware of your tendency to waffle.

It hasn't. I just reread through all of my thoughts on Titus day one and our interactions, and I agree with day one me on the things that are problematic. But she hasn't been doing the little things that I've mostly associated with scum her (or even town her), so I'm just at yeah day one was problematic does that make her scum?

Mostly I'm looking at the lack of aggressiveness, some of the interaction with math blade, the "town is losing this one, and I'm a vt" early claim, and just not seeming to care about being bronzed here that make me hesitate.

[Tammy]

I hate you’re not trying to rally others or sort through it openly.

Definitely not at the point where I'm comfortable rallying anybody to anything.

It's a sound idea in that it paints the D1 wagons in a potentially different light to some people in that some people are assuming that it's a definite counterwagon on town. There's not a whole lot deeper to that premise.
The hard pard is figuring out if Cakez is scum or not.

I’m glad you posted this. Your previous response kinda freaked me out because I couldn’t remember you suspecting cakez at all and was just combing through your iso to clarify that.

I was going to ask but I didn’t want to get yelled at.

[Tammy]

Right now, given my lack of time today, the bad facts against me, it seems proper to accept my miselimination. I needed to be right on my DGB theory. I wasn't.

Of course that locks in Pooky scum, which Math will drown out with accusations that Pooky is a mason. No one else (besides Math) makes sense as a defining swing vote to send SirCakez over mastina. Math reads more like a townbeard but the refusal to even engage me in good faith on the mastina wagon or Pooky (admitting he might be wrong) is just demoralizing. Either a) I'm dealing with a wrong town with an infinite amount of time on his hands to spew bullshit and not listen to anyone which makes it ten times harder to get scum like Battle Mage eliminated who we both agree might be scum or b) is scum spamming preventing any sort of investigation to try and force three town miseliminations. It's like that guy pushing a rock up a hill. I get a glimmer of hope that I'll get a rational conversation when I try, but then the rock slips into Pooky is a mason, my reads are the one true reads and you must agree to be town and only my discussions are valid. We have a strongish townblock that mostly consists of my townreads so I can accept not pushing this rock anymore once I get out my final reads which I pray will be tomorrow. I am seeing nothing after my 3pm errand barring an explosion at work.

I might get to it tonight but that depends on if I find the energy.

Sisyphus

I think Pooky has made some good posts that I’ve liked, bu pt The is he or isn’t he a mason is frustrating. Because the main reason most people that I’m aware of aren’t even evaluating him is because welp he might be a mason.

[Tammy]

I haven't considered that at all, I just did not think he was scum

Can you talk about why you town read him independent of that?

[Tammy]

Bork, you were very explicit yesterday that you targeted sangres with something N1. Is there anything we should talk about with regards to N2, or should it wait?

FWIW my Pooky townread is independent but I can't even remember why off the top of my head, something about not latching onto 2181 people Day 1 and his Cakez walls Day 2.

I forgot about the cakez walls when it wasn’t the big push there.

My brain is really foggy today. I should probably go to sleep.

[Tammy]

She does that as scum Tammy.

Can you point out where?

I don't think I've ever seen that be a part of her scum game.

[Tammy]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=85257
Check out this game Tammy

I didn't notice where she gave up though.

What am I missing?

[Tammy]

claiming because deadline
I'm Steve Jinks, Artifact Detector
Each day I can target someone and will get a list of their artifacts at EoD
I haven't used it yet because I haven't seen something to use it for yet
I was hoping to hide this and catch somebody in a lie later

[Tammy]

I received it at the start of Afternoon today.

Upon receipt, a player may choose to interact with one Artifact in their possession per game phase. They may either use it or transfer the selected Artifact to another player rather than using it. This counts as the player's Artifact interaction for the night.

Transfers may only be performed during the Night phase.

If transferred, the recipient will be informed of the Artifact's Power and Negative Effect. They may also use any non-Artifact actions they have from their role, including the factional kill if Mafia. There is a limit of one non-factional kill role action used per player per phase.

Uhm how Spiffeh?

With minimal coaxing, Trailer is convinced to sniff an outstretched hand and hardly notices when his scarf is removed. He is then promptly distracted by a thirteen-lined ground squirrel and gives chase. Would that the non-metallized people could find their attention drawn away from their grisly task so easily...

Was this the announcement bell?

[Tammy]

never mind that first bit, I was going to respond to math that he misunderstood and in the middle realized that I was misunderstanding.

[Tammy]

It makes total sense unfortunately.

Cakez submits last night.
Spiffeh gets artifact.
Cakez gets result.

The part with cakez and spiffeh is fine.

But it looks like Bell transferred it during the morning phase? Unless things passed at night don't get delivered in the morning phase, which would be odd since we get an inventory list when morning opens.

[Tammy]

It makes total sense unfortunately.

Cakez submits last night.
Spiffeh gets artifact.
Cakez gets result.

The part with cakez and spiffeh is fine.

But it looks like Bell transferred it during the morning phase? Unless things passed at night don't get delivered in the morning phase, which would be odd since we get an inventory list when morning opens.

But with bell not knowing what it does it could just be a part of his role. I dunno.

[Tammy]

I don't think so but that post feels really town.

[Tammy]

Why not? Titus thinks she’s going down so starts suggesting Spiffeh.
Bell and Spiffeh forget about the OP where it says transfers occur at night.
Titus being demoralized scum because she wants a town game.

It just fits?

So maybe I'm reading too much into it, but in the sign up thread Titus talked about wanting scum and being burnt out on town, so I don't think demoralized scum because she wants a town game holds that much weight.

Bell hinted at a morning mod announcement and giving spiffeh something. I don't understand what you're thinking the purpose of the little thing would be if they were scum partnered. The rules also say there could be some other artifact distribution mechanics in play, and it's possible that it's got something to do with Bell's role.

I get you getting paranoid about it, and the "literal jump for joy" line looks super town, but I really don't think that's the scum team.

[Tammy]

Bork will you tell me I'm crazy if I tell you that today I did a search for how often you use the word fuck as town v scum because I had a theory and the out of your scum range crew had me thinking my theory was correct?

I got bored though it seems you use the word fuck pretty often, so that was a wasted avenue.

(I also looked up how often you use the word empathize send help.)

[Tammy]

I was going to say that I'd probably be around as I'm working on work stuff right now, but I'm probably going to be asleep fairly soon. But I will have more time to give to the game tomorrow!

[Tammy]

hi notscience!

[Tammy]

I am town

but I think you might be scum

[Tammy]

also paging one (1) tammatha

help

heh

I'm about due a prod, and I've really been trying to come in here and DO SOMETHING but I'm really having a hard time finding my care button for this game. Part of it is that I'm feeling a bit burnt out on mafia lately, part of it is that I just do not care about some of the arguments and conversations this game and they're wearing on me (Titus is a bit right here in her post about demotivation), and in part the people who I'm iffy about and need to have post so I can figure out if I need to reassess my town reads are posting about as much as I am. Prism trying to rally the troops and the fact that I have a role that might be useful at some point is literally the only reason I even muster any care about the game at all.

Nacho's just got back from being out of town and we've been drinking, so I'm probably not going to be around tonight past this post, but I'm gonna try to get down all of my thoughts here. Sorry if they don't make sense. Also this is all going from memory, which I'm sure if somewhat incomplete. If I misrepresent anyone's thoughts at any point in this ramble fest, it's unintentional. Feel free to correct me and I'll check and fix my thoughts on anything.

I'd also appreciate no random quick hammers today, so that I can get in an action.

I'm sorry about this. I think the last time I felt this apathetic about a mafia game was midsummer's just before I ended up taking a break.

Still have very good town reads on bell (even if he refuses to actually read my posts and attempt to read me), prism and spiffeh.

The only thing that really bothers me about pooky was his mastina protocol thing making him town and his push on cakez that felt off from both of them. However, if cakez is scum then pooky is probably just town unless he decided this was the game to burn the way he interacts with his partners to the ground. AND he pushed the hell out of cakez over mastina day one, and if cakez is rolled then this points a bit stronger to pooky town maybe? The only reason I have a maybe here is because of the leashing to LLD thing day one, and I can't shake how theater-y the Cakez/pooky interaction felt day one. Other than that I've liked his posts, again like his thread health posts, liked the mason issue post and liked his actual case posts on cakez. I'm leaning a lot of prism for this read though. I know that prism has seen pooky town a couple times at least whereas I've only seen him as scum, so it's entirely possible the things that concern me are just things that are part of pooky's playstyle and the similarities I see to scum play area just coincidental.

Still think mathblade is most likely to be town, but I'll admit to not reading the majority of his posts. I got a read early, read some here and there and he still seems quite town. I think the bit about near claiming to be confirmed town due to not killing the masons and various things here and there that feel like he's just probably town really. I also don't really read most of bell's posts about mathblade because I just do not care.

I've had a lot of troubles with my battle mage read. I thought he might be a mason day one due to the way he interacted with and around people when LLD claimed day one. But I started doubting that day one when I reread it and figured I misread. I also thought some of his interaction with cakez early on felt odd like when he offered to give cakez advice on how to wolf properly after the game (I think it was cakez and I think it was day one). But I really liked the post where he said that he was on a six game winning streak and not to screw it up town. And I actually liked his miller claim. I should hate it; I really should and while I don't really believe in twtbaw reads, that kind of day three oh y'all I'm a miller just in case feels like something that i want to scum read so much but really does scum, who made the I'll give you advice for how to scum day one, come in day three and go oh hey guys I'm a miller? This does mean he's not a mason like i thought he was day one, but I already got over that and said so. Can someone check me on this? I should think he's scum for claiming miller randomly on day three when someone may have gotten an investigative shot from an artifact as Prism had kind of alluded to, so why do I think he's town for it? I feel like this is one of my patent reasons for thinking someone might be town that sets me down in flames so please help.

I just do not know about Cakez. i hated his interaction with pooky day one, mostly his "I WILL END YOU" which felt so freaking posturey. I do not really like his roll usage (thought quite frankly mine might not be much better), because the way he acted around pooky it felt like that should have been the clear winner for who he would use his role on day one. Yes, I know some theories regarding role usage as a cop is to go for the null, but I don't know if you feel so completely strongly about it, why aren't you checking the person you're hoping to bury? I did like some of his pooky case but some of it felt not really alignment indicative really. The problem i have with cakez is that I'm not really sure I'm expecting that much more depth from him and he's felt pretty natural in many parts that aren't pooky related, and the unnaturalness was the only little part that I picked up on for scum him in xenoblade, and GreyICE is right in that he's been miselimed a lot, and if I call him scum it's on the basis of not really understanding why he checked quiet or spiffeh BUT I really liked his reaction to thinking that spiffeh had an artifact to use before he realized it was something sent to him after day start.

Titus is difficult because she really is not playing what I'm used to as town or scum. I'm used to more aggression and fight as scum for sure and usually as town but she is a bit more subdued lately than she used to be. My big holdover concern with Titus is the fact that she agreed with mastina that her flavor case on prism was good. (and I just finished season two of warehouse two and while superficially she can be a bad guy, she's a super grey character with reasons she totally believes are for the best for the entire earth and is conflicted about that so yeah). Some of the logical blips are that just logical blips. I didn't like her day one play around mathblade, but quite frankly as the days have progressed I do not have a problem with that at all. This read is harder for me to nail down in a way I feel comfortable about because she's not hitting some of the markers that I have come to look for with her as either alignment. However, she did start isolating things regarding vca early day one. There was a point where she defended me day one as someone who does get behind sometimes and it's not alignment indicative (<3) and then later when she saw a vote count had me in a possible scum pool. Now most people that have as much experience with me as Titus does ignore the fact that I don't vote until end of day, but I could see that coming from Titus as town or scum really because regardless of alignment she'll often start off with me as a town read that she then things might be scum except for when she thinks I'm scum from the start lol. (Part of me wants to say that if titus is scum then bork is not, but after hearing that in 2181 the majority of his play was trying to ensure he looked unpaired to his partner I want to caveat this even though I do feel this due to the way that Bork focused on Titus day one.)

I do not know on dunnstral at all. He could literally be whatever. The biggest scum ping I've had on him is the way that he told LLD day one that he would have voted for her for the artifact before she claimed mason. There was just something so damn skeevy about that post. I don't remember anything else he's done this game.

I don't know about Bork and I hate that I don't. I wish I felt better about him. I've felt that he seemed angrier than he should be this game and I feel skittish interacting with him at all because of how he feels. (Incidentally I wonder if this is how people felt interacting with me in the before time and I want to go apologize to anyone who felt they couldn't ask me a question because I'd bite their hand off for it.) I'm going to center some of this around me, because I didn't like that in his reads list he said that he couldn't empathize with anything I'd done this game, but when thinking about this earlier today his biggest scum read was of Titus day one, and I talked a bit about my issues with trying to figure out Titus. This I know because when bell accused me of basically copying him and mathblade I checked to see what I said about Titus day one and I talked a bit about Titus, so really was there nothing to empathize with? It feels like if he had actually had some issues with Titus and had actually been reading me to see what my alignment was, there would be some empathizing with how hard a time I was having with reading her. I didn't much like our interaction the day I got pissed off at Bork because it felt like he wasn't actually interacting with what I was saying and that felt weird.

For example:

My claim wasn't really unprompted, I initially thought Cakez and I couldn't exist together but my sense of balance sucks so I thought I'd put it out there for people more adept than me to judge

My response really hasn't changed - I think your roles are anti-synergistic. Why do you think they cannot coexist?

Just felt weird. Part of his read on me was that I had an unprompted claim. I was saying that it wasn't unprompted and explained why I did originally. I don't understand his response here? The point of my post was not that I still had a problem with cakez' role but a comment that my claim was no unprompted. I didn't just walk into the thread and claim; there was a reason. At the time I thought and wondered if our roles could work on the same side. I didn't say that at this point in time I thought they couldn't coexist, I was referencing a past thought of mine. I just don't get it, and it's part of what was frustrating with me and bork. it felt like we weren't actually having the same conversation. Felt like he was in warehouse two and I was in 13 and making comments to each other. I don't know it felt like he was finding a reason to be on the defensive.

GreyICe is probably my biggest concern though. Nothing has really changed from here:

hey so

Prism what's your feelings on bork

Can you talk about your read on greyice at some point?

I’ll admit to not being the best greyice reader. I’m pretty sure one of the only times I got his alignment correct was when we were masons, and most of the other times he’s been in my possible or decently strong townreads as scum, so a little help would be nice because he’s not in my town reads right now.

My first concern was the way he called you scum, and a few times threw out the possibility of you as scum. He does not scum read you. I went back and looked at alisae and pine I think it was, which I had loosely followed, and he clearly scum read you there and pointed out why, whereas here there is no bite. Here’s my question is this just a kinda trolling interaction he’s having with you because why not and that’s totally cool if so OR is he feigning a bit of paranoia at you?)

I thought he started the Mastina wagon yesterday but looking back over things that isn’t the case. He was third after mathblade and bell though mathblade didn’t stick around for long, and his vote on Mastina was almost from a dare by Mastina to get on the wagon, which he did. I do very much like his interactions with Mastina because he called her out on all her bullshit, but I would have expected him to rally the troops onto Mastina more than he did.

His titus push feels off, mainly the argument that she read Mastina iso and saw how bad she looked and was responding out of that oh shit kinda of way, which doesn’t ring true when titus was aware of Mastina s treatment of her yesterday, and recognizing that scums treatment of you was wrong can easily come from town too. (I know that’s not the crux of his case but that bit hit wrong)

His bit about prism being scum and he got there by accident and is just that good hit wrong too.

Are these dumb concerns?

But right here is where I really started thinking he was scum:

hey so

Prism what's your feelings on bork

Can you talk about your read on greyice at some point?

I’ll admit to not being the best greyice reader. I’m pretty sure one of the only times I got his alignment correct was when we were masons, and most of the other times he’s been in my possible or decently strong townreads as scum, so a little help would be nice because he’s not in my town reads right now.

My first concern was the way he called you scum, and a few times threw out the possibility of you as scum. He does not scum read you. I went back and looked at alisae and pine I think it was, which I had loosely followed, and he clearly scum read you there and pointed out why, whereas here there is no bite. Here’s my question is this just a kinda trolling interaction he’s having with you because why not and that’s totally cool if so OR is he feigning a bit of paranoia at you?)

I thought he started the Mastina wagon yesterday but looking back over things that isn’t the case. He was third after mathblade and bell though mathblade didn’t stick around for long, and his vote on Mastina was almost from a dare by Mastina to get on the wagon, which he did. I do very much like his interactions with Mastina because he called her out on all her bullshit, but I would have expected him to rally the troops onto Mastina more than he did.

His titus push feels off, mainly the argument that she read Mastina iso and saw how bad she looked and was responding out of that oh shit kinda of way, which doesn’t ring true when titus was aware of Mastina s treatment of her yesterday, and recognizing that scums treatment of you was wrong can easily come from town too. (I know that’s not the crux of his case but that bit hit wrong)

His bit about prism being scum and he got there by accident and is just that good hit wrong too.

Are these dumb concerns?

YOU THINK I'M TOO PROUD TO TAKE A FREEBEE

BUT I'M NOT

I'M NOT PROUD

I'LL GO FISH MY TROPHIES OUT OF THE SEWER IF I NEED TO

I GET WINS HOWEVER I GET THEM

PEDIT:

Math, I am 99.95% sure we'll butt heads in future games. I enjoy playing with you. You're not shit. That being said, we'll probably butt heads and say nasty things to each other in future games. And you still won't be shit, but at that moment you will be. Like behind the curtain, I don't really get that worked up over these games for the most part, except in the moment. At the moment I said you were shit, there was some reason that was driving me absolutely utterly bananas, and I'm not promising I even remember what it was.

To my dying day I'll probably never understand your logic, but it gets too many results for me to dismiss.

The last line, just felt like uh buddying in a really underhanded way especially considering later he uses math as part of his reasoning to scum read titus.

[Tammy]

I'm gonna say take advantage of the fresh air and step back a bit for now, may or may not actually get around to bork but his recent posting was very mixed.

I also just bought Assasssin's Creed Origins, which will be the first video game I've played made after the year 2011, and I kind of want to play that instead so as long as someone else is spurring activity I'll take it.

P-Edit: oh holy mother of god tammy became the printer ok i might read that instead

A person after my own heart. I'm playing the first kingdom hearts right now lol.

Thought if you played the old final fantasy 7, which is my favorite video game ever, the remake that came out last year is so worth it.

[Tammy]

alright so the comparisons with tenet flavor leaf is wrong on 2 counts.

1) none of the scum team voted flavor leaf with me, the only thing that happened was the scum team was laughing at me in scum discord while I was pushing him.

2) I pretty much stopped pushing cake when we had like 3 pages or so of posts left, for the last 2-3 hours before deadline I did not post anything pushing cake, i even popped in and said i'd be willing to move my vote if we needed a compromise or whatever. that's completely different to my scum push on FL when I pushed him until he died because I rarely if ever use restraint when I'm scum.

also

right now the majority of my case against Cake is that he/mastina did not look anything like T/S competing wagons at deadline because

neither of them were very invested in trying to kill the other person

- that suggests they were aligned.

Sure Mastina might fake indifference because she wants to make Cake look bad but why does Cake look like he doesn't care either?

If this is in response to me. I get what you're saying. You've said it before. Number One doesn't interest me because the way your scum partners behaved in that thread in tenet weirded me out on them too, but also I'm at these things remind me of the way you behaved as scum but I'm trying to look outside of that to get a real read on you. Those things will probably bother me until your alignment in confirmed to me. I've only seen you as scum, I cannot help but draw comparisons. I have you as mostly town with these things that give me pause.

Your point on Cakez not seeming to care at the end of the day when he was rolled is actually really interesting.

[Tammy]

Pooky - Yeah I saw that post. I like that post. That is one of the posts I like you for and I'm feeling conflicted on Cakez for because and most especially like the concept that he hadn't really considered his role at all until just before he might have been bronzed. Mostly it's the role thing that has me bugged the most. Like he said after he claimed that he was hoping to catch someone in a lie but he hadn't figured out who to use it on and was taking suggestions, but had not really been thinking about it, and i'm just at really? But I'm really hesitant about going oh you're not using your role like I think you should so you don't really have it, but I'm just at why don't you because i thought my role was useful as hell and it's the majority of my early game and then some, so.

Kingdom hearts is great. Nacho's alarm clock is kingdom hearts lol. I'm getting my ass kicked in the coliseum right before the last world :/ If you've never played the original ff7, playing the remake would still be awesome because the controls for the old game really suck lol. I want to play Assassin's Creed Odyssey though! I should have listened to the guy with his son who gave me the advice to skip the first Assassin's Creed game and move on to the second one, but NO I want to start at the beginning. I hated the first one so I've not played the others, but I really want to play Odyssey because I'm an ancient warfare nerd though I might end up critiquing it too much.

[Tammy]

i am a huge history nerd and i just loved this game :3

We should chat!

[Tammy]

My reasoning is that it's easier for me to go Origins into Odyssey than the reverse, though Odyssey might be more mindblowing. I'm excited to see how much gaming has progressed in a full decade.

The most recently released game I've played before today was Catherine other than some party games like Mario Kart/Smash Ultimate. I guess League also counts.

I have no idea what Catherine is!

[Tammy]

(I saw that you responded. I'm not sure I'm sober enough to cut and respond though, so I'll respond on my next sober pass. Thank you for reading my post!)

[Tammy]

Spiffeh i love when someone is more self-absorbed than I am.

[Tammy]

I owe prism a response, but I'm going to bed.

I kinda like not science's reads thing. I did think he'd have a harder time reading me though; I'm not sure if I should worry about it.

I'm fine with cakez. Not gonna hammer though in case anyone has anything they want to do.

[Tammy]

VOTE: pooky

[Tammy]

VOTE: bork

[Tammy]

VOTE: Tammy

[Tammy]

VOTE: bork

[Tammy]

VOTE: bork

[Tammy]

VOTE:

[Tammy]

YAY!

Thank you for modding it Penguin! I agree it was fantastically run.

I had a good time playing this game even though I'm completely burnt out on mafia and need to take a break. Sorry for my lack of motivation and investment at times. After taking three years off, I've been playing nonstop here and at other sites for the past 6-7 months and I really need to take a breather. I was glad to see mala, kuribo and others I haven't seen in so very long.

Prism - I very much enjoyed playing with you. I'm glad my early read was right even though I probably shouldn't have had a read that strong based on how I think someone will play it. And your reasoning for why it was unlikely for me to counterclaim my partner when I did, and in the way I did, was exactly what I would have said if I'd have been able to post lol.

Bell - I guess you were the mason partner during day one (then at night got paranoid and for a moment thought LLD was a fake claiming mason then realized day two that was dumb.). My guessing you were the other mason was for a dumb reason though. I had started watching warehouse 13 during day one, and Pete Lattimere talks about his vibes a lot, and you had mentioned vibes in your reads list. I figured the masons were Pete and Myka, and Pete talked about Mrs. Frederick's as being all scary face, so this post was me flavor claiming to you and right about when I decided you were the mason lol:

I'm not going to go all scary-face to get you to read me correctly.

When LLD flipped Abigail, I knew that the masons couldn't be Myka and Pete, but you still only made sense as the mason and then it was super clear on day three.

Good game everyone!

[Tammy]

I think the one good thing i did this game was walk on eggshells around prism. I knew i couldnt play it like the mini

Tammy sorry for antagonizing...i was just kinda doing generic scum obtuse shit there and it kinda happened

I love this playerlist so much but my scumagination has run out and left me bereft of both motivation and good content. Either i need to take a hiatus or play in some other tables to get it back, but the majority of you have my number here and it shows

Don’t apologize! You were scum and did what you needed to to throw me off a bit. I came back to it later and was like I just don’t think this is a town interaction we had, but it was enough in the moment to kill the developing scum read I had.

[Tammy]

Lol that would have been hilarious!