Warehouse 13: The Mafia Game (Game Over)

[sangres]

Greetings, Gentlebeings!

[sangres]

Whoever the comb takes control of, it makes that person have a deep yearning to be loved, just like Lucrezia had. However, the wearer will do anything to obtain love, and usually begins a bloody reign of terror and destruction. The comb also has mind control powers; when the user reads the trigger aloud, the comb releases a bright light that alters the brain chemistry of anybody that sees it and essentially brainwashes them. The indicator that a person is brainwashed is that they keep repeating the trigger. The wearer will have a hole in their heart that will be filled after everybody everywhere is in love with them or is dead. If the comb is neutralized, light seems to shoot out of its victims and return to it and all the comb's victims have no idea what they did or what happened.

From here: https://warehouse13.fandom.com/wiki/Luc ... a%27s_Comb

hmm

[sangres]

maybe a dumb question but are we sure the flavour of the artefacts is not different to the mech in the game? otherwise, it's pretty easy to use the flavour to figure them all out?

wary of a swerve haha

I'll do

Vote: Spiffeh

too, so we can progress quickly to the important business of the day!

I like you already!

if the comb gives random killing powers which aren't the decision of the owner, does it even matter who gets it?

"Snag it. Bag it. Tag it."

The recipient learns the specifics about what the artifact does, and what the downside of using it is.

@Tammy, if you're town, a mutual aid society would be most comforting!

[sangres]

Not entirely sure what this means! I just know right now one of you is probably unhappy, and I selfishly want it to be Nacho though that's also battling with how much I know he's burnt out on being town and wants to be scum again so badly. I am town, and I do hope if you guys are town that we'll be able to click though!

OOOOH! I think Nacho's recovered, but tlaloc proved more powerful than whichever demons he invoked. I won the rand, though I was fairly well resigned to being scum if it happened.

@Prism, I hope bork's v/la doesn't prevent him from confirming your n0 claim. I want to townread you for sharing what you have.

Given who the sample goon was, I feel quite sure scum have fake claims.

[sangres]

I don't think that at all.

vote: Prism

[sangres]

Nevermind it was ffery who thinks I'm town, not Nacho, back in the null pile you go.

I was gonna say

LLD thinking Nacho's posted is kinda meh. He might be around in 9ish hours or so.

If I had to vote elsewhere, it would be BM right now.

The morning-vote confusion rankles. I wouldn't expect Titus to be confused about that kind of thing.

Hi mala!

[sangres]

I am not shitposting I have already telegraphed to Tammy that I'm town which is a very good use of my time tyvm

Just waiting on the rest of you to stop being dramatic and accept it too!

@Tammy, how are you feeling about this?

Pooky does not have anyone's back, I've learned recently

Elaborate?

Thought about it more, haven't read last page and can't atm but zero chance sangres is scum here

VOTE: Sangres

There is nothing outside my scum range in this thread yet. Probably goes double for Nacho. But, you're not wrong, so

Are you trying to ignite my paranoia? You'd need purple goo and a neutralizer bag to put it out.

VOTE: LLD

I'm available, call me If you change your mind.

I feel like you're going to break my heart this game.

Mala is probably town.

An early read on me doesn’t sit right.

<...>
~M

Have you played with Math since coming back from hiatus?

I haven't. Nacho probably has more recent game experience than me.

I'm not townreading Math.

But I also think that Nacho told you one of the reasons I recognized you as scum in Battlestar because I think you'd kinda reflexively do it again, and I know that he had a pretty detailed plan with you for misbronzing me if you guys rolled scum, which I know he said he can't do now because he tole me about it. Anyway, I liked it and I feel weird right now that I keep having good feels about people and I'm about to go all leap of faith lol.

re BSG game, if he ever told me, I don't remember, so I'm gonna ask.

And yeah, he had an elaborate plan, but hadn't shared details with me before he got drunk and spilled it to you. He thought I'd be the perfect hydra partner for whatever the shenanigans were, though. Probably won't happen in a sangres game, now. Which is probably good for my nerves.

Leap of faith is exactly what I'm doing with my vote. I know (better than I used to) that Prism can be incredibly town-feeling as scum. But this doesn't feel incredibly town. It just feels...town.

[sangres]

Sangres - Which one of you is doing the comforting this game

.

I've only skimmed your posts but this isn't really what I thought that your approach would look like if you're scum this game which is reassuring!

I would have been happier rolling scum this game because while the bucket list you play on YOU might now have been the greatest idea there are still a lot of good targets, but if I'm forced to be town YET AGAIN, being town with the love of my life isn't the WORST thing in the world.

[sangres]

But if you're scum putting in work this game I'm still going to slam dunk you just FYI

[sangres]

I'm on my phone so pretty limited, but the short of it is that sangres would make a bigger show of paranoia here, which hasn't happened yet. They also respect my towngame too much to fight on my behalf out of the gate like this, let alone give me the artifact. Hard town.

Playstyle it's nice to have diversity.

Not really digging this townread???

We're pushing you to get an artifact early and tbh I'm not even sure what that artifact does. We don't have to make a big show of paranoia because we can always go back out a townread.

Where's that respect for our scum games?

[sangres]

He thought I'd be the perfect hydra partner for whatever the shenanigans were, though. Probably won't happen in a sangres game, now. Which is probably good for my nerves.

Don't get your hopes up.

Next time we roll scum it's gonna be a SHIT SHOW.

[sangres]

this hair screams scum btw

Don't hate me because I'm beautiful baby.

[sangres]

oh gods save me I have a town lean on spiffed already :/

shhhhhh just let it happen

you say as you laugh maniacally at the screen

That's pretty sexy if Spiffeh is scum

[sangres]

OK, think I've done enough here to win us the game, see y'all day 2.

[sangres]

Prism why vote me when you could vote yourself?

@Quiet:

and I don't think town!Prism is likely to be wrong here either.

Town-Prism was wrong about scum-ffery in our last game together. I'm somwhat perplexed by such a quick townread here, but the reasonings behind the read do make sense from how Prism processes the game to the extent I grok that.

I'm not sure he has my scum game figured out, though, given the basis of those reasonings.

Elaborate?

He's been scum lately

What does that have to do with this game?

I have some reads

One of them makes me sad

and?

The townreads on Sangres feel weird

How so?

Is there any reason for us to think the comb is a good artifact that does good things?

I see people claiming early townreads and trying to pass it off quickly.

I've been working my way through the series since learning about this game. Most of the artifacts can't be considered unmitigated good. They seem to do something you'd like, but at a cost. and some of them do really bad stuff. Lucretia Borgia's comb isn't the worst artifact in the warehouse by a long shot. How the comb's powers in the series get translated into a mafia game isn't obvious to me, and my takes on mechanics are often kinda simplistic. :/

The only purely good artifact I can think of offhand is maybe Gandhi's dhoti. (I'm about halfway through 4th season so there could be other purely good artifacts I haven't seen yet.)

I could speculate out loud about how Lucretia's comb might work in the game, but see the bit about simplistic takes.

Is there any reason for us to think the comb is a good artifact that does good things?

I see people claiming early townreads and trying to pass it off quickly.

Objects have an ability and a downside. A downside implies an upside as well.

And the receiver can simply choose not to use it if they don't like it. Or to give it to someone else.

-k

I think the options are use it or pass it on to someone else, if I'm reading the mechanics part of the rules correctly. Holding on to it and not using it isn't an option.

Knowing what the actual upside and downside are should help though.

#192: You called?

I was gonna day that’s like me and bell I think and that would get real boring, but I didn’t want to hurt your feelings if you were sensitive about it so I just chuckled to myself.

I'm sensitive about it, in that kind of, "why can't I lie good so that I don't ruin the game for others?" Guilt sense.
But that's about it.

Just off the top of my head.

Pooky, Dun, BM, LLD. Town.

Could be wrong on one or more.

Spiffeh and Math both kind of just reminding me of their scum game, but on the otherhand, they both appear incapable of rolling town in games I'm in so take that with a grain of salt or 10.

I'm meh on everyone else.

Tammy's a vibe read this game.

I like this post, kinda, though I'm a little insulted to be in your meh pile. At least I get a bit of a town vibe from you here.

I'm going to be playing more like Alter Ego this game because I get nervous about page limits, so factor that into how you read me. I won't be hyper-posting, and I will be saving a significant chunk of what I think of as sangres' post allocation for Nacho. I know some players won't hyperpost, but some of you have already chewed up more than what I'd think of as a calendar day's worth of posting in about 12 hours.

I use art to cope

Furthermore if you’re claiming someone similar to Superman (intentionally vague) this claim doesn’t work as he literally couldn’t give his artifact away. It was stuck to him.

uhh. literally discus-ing a laptop into a black hole.

I have 0 knowledge of this show and what its about

i dont even know who the bad guys are

so im definitely town

Spoiler: “For Math”

H.G 4ever

<3 HG.

Not sure what to think about Prism yet

MathBlade has been transparently town to me from jump and I'm not thrilled with there already seeming to be somewhat of a consensus scum read there

He's clearly not the most charismatic player itg (no offense!) and I feel that's being used to put him in the hot seat already and there is absolutely no scum motivation to start and maintain this back and forth with Prism so early on

I like the passion and I like the focus even if I don't agree with the direction. Had a minor quibble a bit back that I mentioned, but I don't think that matters overmuch. So, yeah I lean town there.

For Prism, right now I feel like the approach doesn't make sense from scum? That townread on Sangres aside, which I agree looks a bit odd, though I liked them having the town read, putting them null, then coming back to a townread, so I just ignored that bit of oddity. I think that while they'd probably be frustrated with Math's approach anyway that if they were scum, there'd be a kind of pointed interaction instead of just kinda ragey frustration if that makes sense?

I'm going to take this under advisement because Mathblade's approach to the game, particularly that bit about 1 but not 2 scum in prism/bork gave me a nasty case of hives. Maybe you can be the counter-balance to my tendencies wrt

I'm expecting a certain half of sangres to be extremely paranoid this game

Paranoia is the opposite side of the trust coin, and it's trust that's going to be hard to come by for a while. Without trust, there is less room for paranoia. This half is floating beneath the lake, contemplating who should receive my sword.

This was the perfect time for a sangres game, from my perspective. The sangres iconography and mythology sync with the flavor is beautimous.

Excalibur is an artifact, btw. And sangres is a Merovingian knight.





----------------

This reminds me a little bit of the midscummer night's dream mafia game that Cabd and I designed and ran (with invaluable advice from Vi) a couple years ago. Players got to select the dream that would be in effect from three choices each night, but didn't learn what a dream did until it was chosen (and in some cases, not until the next game day).

We have to make choices about who gets an artifact based on extremely incomplete info.

[sangres]

Ffery makes more of a show of uncertainty here, your response tackles positioning which is a completely separate issue and doesn't matter.

Neither of you are bad at the alignment but I am scared of neither of you.

This tracks.

And Tammy, this is part of the reason I'd like to roll scum soon! So many people now only know my scum game as the husk of a mafia player that I became at the end of hiatus - not everyone knows the might of House (insert name of whatever the fuck house it was when we got snowstorm mislynched after he got a cop guilty on me). I hate that people only know me for my valleys - I want people to see what Peakcho is capable of.

[sangres]

GAME SO EASY

MATH SCUM PRISM SCUM NACHO DUMB

HOW

[sangres]

It sounded like Nacho, sue me.

ummmmm no

You know me better than that. I hope. I thought??????

[sangres]

Okay you can go to null but I am still weary. That’s a good answer though.

Prism, asking for a friend:

Is this what it looks like when someone makes a show of their paranoia?

[sangres]

The most recent posts confirm for me that I just instinctively hate virtually every post Nacho makes from an alignment perspective, think this is the 5th/6th game in a row. There was one game he convinced me he was town as Imperium but every single other game I wind up thinking "Wow that's a bad post" and scumreading him and I'm throwing in the towel.

I loved your thoughts when you were scum. I loved your approach to the game, I love your drive, I love your passion, I loved almost everything about you when you were scum.

When you're town it seems like we're oil and water unless I'm serious mode.

[sangres]

Now that I think about it quiet's opening post was pretty rough.

Yes. It was. I want to see more. insert paragraph about rapidly evolving new players here.

I'm here to let everybody know that while I agree with Dunn that sangres town reads were unnatural at the beginning, Sangres is town.
Because I don't think FF, burdened with a scum role pm can compliment others in the middle of a game like that with Prism.*

*All my reads are subject to reversal.

I think Tammy was doing a seance with their boss's heart.

If you're talking about #300 at the top of this page, then you're attributing a Nacho post to me.

My puzzle is to figure out if this is a thing that town-bell would believe about scum/town ffery. :/

-----------------

Also, and this is a question for Dunn, too: Whose reads were unnatural and why?

[sangres]

Now that I think about it quiet's opening post was pretty rough.

Yes. It was. I want to see more. insert paragraph about rapidly evolving new players here.

I'm here to let everybody know that while I agree with Dunn that sangres town reads were unnatural at the beginning, Sangres is town.
Because I don't think FF, burdened with a scum role pm can compliment others in the middle of a game like that with Prism.*

*All my reads are subject to reversal.

I think Tammy was doing a seance with their boss's heart.

If you're talking about #300 at the top of this page, then you're attributing a Nacho post to me.

My puzzle is to figure out if this is a thing that town-bell would believe about scum/town ffery. :/

-----------------

Also, and this is a question for Dunn, too: Whose reads were unnatural and why?

Insert paragraph about rapidly evolving new players here? < What’s this?

Pretty sure my reads are bad and sangres is scum without a damn good explanation.

I'm throttling a lot of predispositions about you in an effort to give you a fair shake. This post of yours doesn't help. There are several separate lines of development that I'm watching, and explaining that post in detail derails two of them. I wrote up a response and stuck it in my drafts to post later if it's still relevant, when it doesn't jostle stuff I want to watch.

The "insert paragraph" was basically a shorthand comment to Prism, because I think he probably has some of the same reactions to Quiet's post that I do because of our involvements in the Iceland newbie game. I was the mod and Prism was scum. The specifics of what I'm thinking about Prism as a new, rapidly evolving player are not going to hit the thread right now.

[sangres]

It's not a reaction test. And Quiet is the new player I'm talking about.

You've completely NOT followed the actual line of interaction here: Quiet's post (which I replied to earlier), Prism's short comment about it, and my response to Prism.

[sangres]

Also, just noticed I said "Prism" instead of "Quiet" in my 341. Which explains that disconnect in 342.

[sangres]

She's a little disappointed. Why sheep Tammy when you can sheep Nacho, you know?

[sangres]

I liked his response to you early on in a person not alignment indicative kind of way. I still haven't actually read the game yet so I don't have thoughts on him beyond that.

[sangres]

Yeah, I have no idea why you're town reading Mathblade.

Being town gives most people a brazenness that it shouldn't. I don't see a world where Mathblade accuses us of accidentally posting something meant for the scum QT in thread in the way that he did and is also scum.

[sangres]

Like I've seen him as scum, I've witnessed him as scum - he knows what arguments hunt and which arguments don't and unless he's trying to take refuge in insanity here (which I don't think is the case, torpedoing your credibility in exchange for being townread isn't very useful early game), he ain't scum.

[sangres]

this silliness

Silliness to the same degree of accusing someone of accidentally posting a scum PT post in thread?

Because whereas I expect everyone to tilt at windmills regardless of alignment this is a pretty hard argument to fabricate as scum. Mathblade maybe goes "hah this kind of looks like something I'd say in a scum PT" but I don't think he then uses that leverage to make this argument - there's no reason to do it except to be townread, and I don't think that the reward is worth the loss in trust, especially this early.

Does that point make sense?

[sangres]

She's a little disappointed. Why sheep Tammy when you can sheep Nacho, you know?

ffery.

you're sheeping ffery.

Tammy, I had the opposite reaction to Bell's interaction with Math. I thought it was more likely something town-bell would do. :/

[sangres]

HG Wells, VT, Artifact was a Minoan Trident.

Your turn.

One of a few artifacts I'd thought HG might start with, and one of a few characters I'd not be surprised has a starting artifact.

In the series, it was a near world-destroying artifact if used on the site of a supervolcano. And HG was an extremely conflicted character, but at least as of the episode I'm on, midway through season 4, on the good side of the storyline.

My favorite character. :/

[sangres]

Is our vote needed?

Vote: LLD

We're actually a little more worried about bork, sight unseen, getting the Minoan Trident N0 than LLD getting Lucrezia's comb.

Though we both think that no single artifact should be game-breaking depending on whether town or scum control it.

[sangres]

Just popping in to try and catch up (shockingly busy weekend); but doesn't scum know, or at least have some insight? Don't scum get to pick between two, choose one, the second one goes up for vote?

Don't think that particularly changes my view on Prism, which I will need to update from the last 6 pages, but scum should know or at least have some insight on all artifacts that get put in front of us, no?

Thoughts on other players?

[sangres]

i dont trust myself to read you Bell, you always look scummy to me

i dont trust myself to read you Bell, you always look scummy to me

Sure.

I don't agree that Titus is probably town.

I feel like there are two factions in this game and I'm not sure which one is mixed with scum. But one faction is larger than the other, so I'll just go ahead and say the larger faction has more scum. Rather than factions I'd say there's 2 reads lists being thrown about.

Sure, Math. I agree that based on previous posts you've made, that your town games and scum games are probably similar in wording and sentence structure. Even though I've never played with town you. I don't see much reason for you to lie about that, though I'm sure there are differences.

Bell there’s only one scum faction per the OP. It says 4 mafia. If you’re feeling there’s two scum groups then either there is a traitor or there’s a town group pocketed by scum.

No I meant there are two groups of players with similar reads.
One group is pretty convinced Prism is town.
One group is pretty supportive of LLD, while another group resists it.

Note the LLD group is not nearly as fixated on Dunnstrall in rhetoric as the players pushing his wagon, but they're not really against it either. So there's not much of a lack of consensus on Dunnstral, so yeah. If we're just going by votes and that no one is defending him except town me, then there could be a problem there. Or, just Scum bussing and hoping to get convinced to jump off or will pretend to get bored, or maybe they wagoned Dunnstrall early hoping interest would die off if they bussed a buddy early though this puts a lot of attention on him, but best of luck with that.

I'm saying a lot of words, but the observation probably isn't even that important. I would just ignore this post.

I'm not able to read Math's confidence in his reads. Whenever I get hard town read like that my initial position is to unvote them. It's a dumb instinct.

I like this, especially the first few sentences. It's similar to some of my thoughts about the game so far.

I don't think people townreading Prism necessarily scumread LLD.

And I feel like the two wagons have settled out too quickly given a gamestate with several players lacking useful content.

Given even that amount of thought sync, it surprises me that we're not on the same page about Mathblade.

[sangres]

Pooky, you worry me.

------------------------

We're actually a little more worried about bork, sight unseen, getting the Minoan Trident N0 than LLD getting Lucrezia's comb.

i'm trying to think of something cheeky but mostly just hi. I liked your 279

you don't have to worry about the artifact or me at all this game.

Were you townreading LLD before the mason claim?

Nacho was townreading her and I don't have any reservations about his read. I would have been null on LLD before the claim just based on wanting to take time and observe more after the Tenet game.

This feels ugly. I want that on the record. If Dunn isn’t scum I want Titus and Cakez and maaaaybe one of LLD or Prism.

don't really like the willingness to be on here but grumbling about it. There's no real pressure to be on a compromise elim at this point in the day.

i'm not prepared to make a judgment call on what that means about dunn but i don't like it from math

I kinda feel the same but I'm not sure how much of it comes from the Dunn wagon basically popping up as a counter to the Mathblade push.

Totally separate from that dynamic, I hate some of what Dunn's put into the thread, but are a couple of posts I like. :/

-----------------------

Cakez, you made a bit of a thing about expecting paranoia from me. You haven't really done anything with it since. If that's how you plan to read me here, what's going on wrt it?

Also: protip - I'm pretty good at working paranoia into my scum game.

[sangres]

I would ~assume~ they did get to see the mechanics of both artifacts, and would ~hope~ they had to make the choice blind.

And from there, I'd decide whether to hardclaim based on if I think the value of town having the info outweighs the downside of scum knowing.

With a mason buddy, it seems like the full info gets to town by day 2 either way? So, weigh the value of knowing now vs knowing tomorrow, too?

[sangres]

The townreads on Sangres feel weird

Dunn I've asked before -- please elaborate.

Specifically, whose reads, and what makes those reads weird?

-------------------

Rules are pretty clear they don't know what an artifact does until they receive it.
Being given a choice among two is not likely to meet the definition of 'received'
My guess remains that the scum team had to wiki the two artifacts and decided based on speculation on what they do which would be best to pick.
It's also more fun that way and fits the flavor.

Thinking more on this game as possibly being in part an evolution of the midscummer night's dream game, scum knew no more than town did about the three dreams presented as choices each day. Maybe the artifact design of this game doesn't change that.

This speculation is probably just about worth what you paid for it.

Pooky, you worry me.

I shouldn't worry you unless you're scum

in which case

you should be very very worried.

but not really cuz I am a lazy bear who is going to take it easy in his semi-retired old age

I'm going to need more from even a semi-retired bear to have a comfortable read.

[sangres]

Except, the sculpture that Prism photoshopped their laptop into is Myron's Discobolus, an ancient Greek sculpture of a discus thrower.

It's not Atlas.

nerd

[sangres]

Not sure what to think of titus and interaction with math bland there :/

could you talk to me about this?

i'm townreading too many people and i liked titus's interaction there but titus could very well be a weak spot.

[sangres]

Oh nachgres do you have any thoughts on spiffeh?

pretty firmly townreading him at this point in the read.

[sangres]

Oh nachgres do you have any thoughts on spiffeh?

pretty firmly townreading him at this point in the read.

I feel unfairly persecuted by this

maybe you just like spiffs more than me

obviously!

[sangres]

Vote: Dunnstral

LLD if you move to Titus I'll sheep but I'm not killing Mathblade this game.

[sangres]

Oh nachgres do you have any thoughts on spiffeh?

pretty firmly townreading him at this point in the read.

I feel unfairly persecuted by this

maybe you just like spiffs more than me

I think he's jealous of your avatar, too.

[sangres]

Bell,

Nacho's gone for the night and I'm not far behind.

This is not falling on deaf ears.

The quick polarizations in this game make me nervous. I'd love to hash out thoughts on some other players tomorrow if you'll be around. Maybe battle mage, Titus and Kitty Trauma Team as a start?

[sangres]

I think I thought more people towned you because Prism kept bringing it up

Tammy also townread us about then, for different reasons. Quiet townread us but that happened a little later.

Of those three reads, quiet's read and basis was the most unexpected to me.

If it was Prism's read that bothered you, I don't understand why you didn't push him for more reasoning then.

[sangres]

If it was Prism's read that bothered you, I don't understand why you didn't push him for more reasoning then.

You should pay more attention to what I'm saying. I'm not calling it scum

No, I realize that. But, you called out some apparent aggregate number of townreads as weird and just left it there. No reason why they were weird, and no specific players. And no follow-up.

Maybe bother isn't the best word, but it caught your attention enough to make a post about it.

[sangres]

My impression of the game was that you were getting townreads too easily. I also think this is true for spiffeh, by the by. I had 4 posts at the time, saying I didn't follow up isn't really fair

I don't think the number of posts before or after matter.

I think you could make an argument that I made a mountain out of a molehill, though.

Can you expand on this post?

I agree with Prism that Dunn's recent activity after getting called out doesn't make me feel better.

It feels like he's trying to give the impression that he's unbothered by the pressure, whereas town!Dunnstral would probably recognize the issues with his current play and... do better?

This post feels loaded and I believe you are making things up

How do you feel about Spiffeh's reply in 516?

--------------------

Pooky, you worry me.

Can you say more about this? Because I think Pooky is scummy but I am not sure if this means you feel the same way.

As the game has progressed these posts popped up and they jangled my nerves.

Spoiler:

I have 0 knowledge of this show and what its about

i dont even know who the bad guys are

so im definitely town

Pooky do you think continuing to proclaim that I'm scum every time I post is going to get you townread?

I can tell you rn it's not working

im already locktown dude

i dont even know who the bad guys are or what they do

And Pooky imho is scum.

lolol what

I don't even know who the bad guys in the show are

But, there is stuff in his iso that I like, too. And I liked our interaction last night. He's really good at the social game as either alignment, and my liking that interaction doesn't really mean a lot in the scheme of things. I still feel like there's a better ratio of substance than I saw from him in most of the Tenet game. I see a world where pooky isn't town in this game, but I kinda don't think that's the world I'm living in. From our convo last night, Nacho and I see the same worlds and tentatively agree on which one we live in.

We won't vote here unless that changes.

Cakez, you made a bit of a thing about expecting paranoia from me. You haven't really done anything with it since. If that's how you plan to read me here, what's going on wrt it?

It hasn't been long enough. I think I made that point like 24 hours ago?

Interestingly, you posted this and then called out the only paranoia source I've acknowledged with a post.

[sangres]

I'm nowhere near 100% on bork being town, but I liked his "you don't have to worry about me" post, and kinda townread it.

I think if bork's scum again it will show pretty quickly because he hates being scum and is no doubt still exhausted from drawing 2 scum roles in a row.


quiet's posting frequency is starting to bug me.

Haven't caught up but Math getting flack for FoSing LLD is bullshit. LLD has lied about being a mason before.

Can we plez lynch

amserious

We could go there. sync needed.

[sangres]

Actually nah.

vote: Titus

[sangres]

I'm nowhere near 100% on bork being town, but I liked his "you don't have to worry about me" post, and kinda townread it.

I think if bork's scum again it will show pretty quickly because he hates being scum and is no doubt still exhausted from drawing 2 scum roles in a row.

I admit the "you don't have to worry about me" part of that post was what most I townread him for from his ISO

However, that is overshadowed by two things:
1. His posts this game just seem overly...polished/manufactured? 694 is one of the posts that gave me this impression. Idk how to put it but I just get the vibe he's concerned with how he comes across here where I didn't at all feel that way in Tenet.
2. More concerning, I didn't like his interaction with you. The question about your read on LLD before her mason claim is pretty useless, as LLD has already claimed mason and is confirmed town assuming that claim is true. What is he looking for from you in terms getting a read when asking that? And then mentioning Tenet and how you both were fooled by LLD felt off to me too. I think scum!bork recognizes part of his win condition is getting town!sangres on his side and I view this interaction more as him buddying you than genuinely trying to get a read on you.

I can foresee this Day turning into the MathBlade/Titus/Dunnstral show and I'd prefer to shine some light on and not write off some of the players that are more likely to escape radars.

I applaud your final sentence here, but I feel like it's been the MathBlade/Dunnstral show, which is my biggest qualm about voting Dunn, plus a few of his posts do give me some town-glimmers. Nacho's Dunn-scumread is the stronger one.

I'm hyper-alert about bork, and I'm going to give him room for now.

[sangres]

Nacho's Dunn-scumread is the stronger one.

I'd love if Nacho could go into detail about what he's seeing in Dunnstral.

Because I saw some stuff early on but Dunn's newer stuff makes me feel no type of way and I wouldn't say I've become more confident in him flipping scum as the Day has progressed.

I will be incredibly sad if you are scum, because you succinctly stated my feelings about Dunn.

[sangres]

I will be incredibly sad if you are scum, because you succinctly stated my feelings about Dunn.

At the time I expressed my thoughts on Dunn he only had four posts and has posted a lot since, do you have any thoughts on his more recent posts?

Also idk the point of you mentioning that you'll be sad if I'm scum is to the answer of that question?

You wanted Nacho's engagement on that question, so I didn't respond to it. He's not here to post atm. My Dunn read isn't as strong as his and has weaken based on Dunn's most recent posts, so hence my fistbump.

Nacho likes your content which is cool, but I'd like to be able to form a read on you myself if I can. Reading your post about Dunn and finding a point of agreement is really the first step I think I've ever experienced in terms of an independent non-cold-meta and hopefully non-crappy read of you.

-----------------

bork, my response to your question about my pre-claim LLD read would probably have been the same regardless of my alignment.

[sangres]

Sircakez, Battle Mage, GreyIce, and yourself

This is resistance to mathblade, not all are ok with going titus as well; most are instead tunneled on me to a frankly unrealistic degree

Sangres is honorarily ont he list because they keep directing questions at me

while supposedly suspecting Mathblade

but it doesn't have the same feel

What?

We've been settled on a Mathblade townread since before the afternoon phase started, and I don't think Nacho ever had a scumread on Math.

We voted you last night.

Nacho told LLD that we'd to Titus if she'll vote there.

And then I moved our vote from you to Titus when Greyice voted there. That was a very comfortable move to make, not only because Nacho had already indicated he'd vote there, but also because my scumread of you has weakened over your content over the last 24 hours. I pushed you on your comments about people giving us too easy townreads because it was one of my points of concern, and I didn't absolutely hate your responses to that.

I have some vague feels that Math's page 30 posts sounded a little too "look how I'm not caring if I get miselimed", but the preponderance of his posts, particularly interactions with Titus and Bell, feel town to Nacho, and I'm very comfortable going along with that.


----------------------

@Math, I'm EXTREMELY uncomfortable with your post count burn rate in a page-restricted game.

[sangres]

Have you played with Math since coming back from hiatus?

I haven't. Nacho probably has more recent game experience than me.

I'm not townreading Math.

I'm going to take this under advisement because Mathblade's approach to the game, particularly that bit about 1 but not 2 scum in prism/bork gave me a nasty case of hives. Maybe you can be the counter-balance to my tendencies wrt

I kinda feel the same but I'm not sure how much of it comes from the Dunn wagon basically popping up as a counter to the Mathblade push.

This is what I was looking at when I made the post.

That's a pretty damn curated segment of our trajectories on Math. I'd go so far as to say "cherry-picked".

[sangres]

i have a sample size of 1 w/ GreyICE but that was not my experience w/ town GreyICE at all. Can't comment on his scumgame.

Either way that seems like a criminally low bar to set

that experience, which we shared, was with town mason GreyICE.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 2#p5840592

Me? I was a mason. I can spend day 1 trolling random people, refuse to give reasoning for my reads, generally annoy people, and make it look like I'm a possible mislynch. I can start a random pissing contest with Deacon Blues, even though I'm 90% on them being town. I was literally lynch-proof (seriously, on day 2 I was confirmed town to 4 of the 10 players. 6 were needed for lynch).

I played with scum-GreyICE in another game. he was only in the game for day 1 and then replaced out. I didn't spot him as scum because his play was LESS trolling than Vesperia and made more sense to me.

Anyway. Just wanted to put your one-game experience into the perspective of this post.

I think I re-skimmed the Vesperia game during the Whedon Mini, but this post didn't catch my eye back then. I did see it when I reread the Tales games for design-thoughts during the FGO game.

---------------------

How do you feel about Spiffeh's reply in 516?

I don't think that is a reply to the post I am talking about

I don't think the number of posts before or after matter.

I think you could make an argument that I made a mountain out of a molehill, though.

Can you expand on this post?

People are writing you guys off as town too easily when you very well can still be scum, for no reason other than you started making likeable posts

Dunn you're making me crazy.

I hate getting into nearly the same nitpicks with you over and over again. I feel like the conflict is muddying my read, not clarifying it. Maybe the read should be more muddy.

---------------------

Catchup soon count:

Mastina! (with bonus offer of lynching her... so tempting)
Tammy!
Kitty Trauma Team! (With bonus for there's two of them)

guyz I have a free money bet
not three green

My Kitty Trauma Team worries are growing. I like some of what they've posted. I'm surprised mala hasn't tried to connect with us more. Nacho has some concerns, too, partly to do with kuribo. Not sure I can do them justice for him in his absence, so they can wait until Nacho's around.

My battle mage read needs some review too.

---------------------

@Math, noted re your post or don't post quandary. If all 17 players divvied up the 85 pages we get for day 1 evenly, that would be 5 pages each. 125 posts each.

[sangres]

Dunn you're making me crazy.

I hate getting into nearly the same nitpicks with you over and over again. I feel like the conflict is muddying my read, not clarifying it. Maybe the read should be more muddy.

I'm not calling you scum. I'm saying other players are not doing enough to read you/set the bar too low/came to conclusions too fast/aren't doing due diligence, and that you're not hard town

You don't have to take that as a personal attack on you; it's not

What I want is accountability.

There's no accountability in saying "other players" and "started making likeable posts" without details on who and on where our posts got "likeable" so I can even know what "likeable" means to you.

I would think that early day one from your perspective would be rife with unwarranted townreads on most players, so it's strange to me that we somehow stand out as not getting enough scrutiny.

The only player you named as townreading us too easily was Prism.

Do you feel like Prism's not experienced enough to call us town within a few pages? Do you feel like Prism's the kind of player who doesn't revisit, reread, rethink as more data hits the thread? I assume you think Prism's town because otherwise it seems like you'd be concerned that it's a fabricated read and wonder why we're not concerned that this is scum-Prism pocketing us.

And that goes for anyone else who's reading us too easily from your perspective. Why assume they're ALL genuine reads but naïve or lazy rather than fabricated?

But beyond that, and more importantly --

I developed a ton of respect for your play and approach to the game in Tenet despite our both being pocketed by scum-Dandelion. It came to naught in that game, but I thought the fundamentals of your townhunting, scumhunting, and leadership/management in the forward thread was really solid.

If you're town here, I hope your play reaches that level and I want to work with you -- this time without being lost in deep fog and unable to link up with other town as well.

Right now, I don't feel like we're on a course where that happens.

[sangres]

What I want is accountability.

There's no accountability in saying "other players" and "started making likeable posts" without details on who and on where our posts got "likeable" so I can even know what "likeable" means to you.

I don't think the level of accountability I'm being held to is the same as other people are

That's probably true. You've snagged my attention and right now you're chewing up a lot -- arguably too much -- of my bandwidth.

I don't think you're putting similar levels of scrutiny on other players' townreads either. This player list doesn't lack for big personalities/reputations.

The appeal you didn't respond to is sincere. I'm going to try to back off and give you space to do other stuff.

And myself as well.

[sangres]

I don't think Newbie's generally count for scummies consideration. If they did, Prism would be declining a nomination this year.

Anyway, I really don't like mastina's flavor-case. It takes a cartoonish oversimplification of HG to call her a baddie IMO, given how evil and twisted the antagonists of that series are.

It's almost as bad as calling Artie a likely scum role because of what using Magellan's Astrolabe did to him.

[sangres]

Nacho will probably interact with this a lot more, but I'm here and you mentioned me so

So you guys get me until my car is done being serviced. I think I'm in a good spot with getting caught up with grading and not being so burnt out by it, so I might come back tonight if i have the patience. I'm gonna try to get all my thoughts out in one post, so sorry for the length, but some of you are forgetting that our pages are limited and you should stop spamming one liners (Hi Cakez Hi!). There are some pages I haven't read, so if I miss something, let me know, but seeing how little I care for the pages I did read around the ones I missed I'm not overly concerned I missed something groundbreaking.

Anyway earlier I was thinking that maybe I was forcing a town read on someone that I shouldn't be, and I was wondering if that someone was Prism, but after recent posts, I don't think I am. That town read still feels good.

Mastina - I don't understand your scum read on prism for a couple reasons. One is the point against them saying that they're being more abrasive this game on purpose and your argument is that 9 times out of 10, that comes from scum. However, you called my first post town, and my first post talked about meta and how some of my meta didn't apply anymore. I actually expected to get scum read for that post by the people it was directed to, but you called it town. And for Prism, I can't imagine anyone intimate with Prism to be all like Prism is never abrasive, so scum. And two, are you really trying to make a flavor argument for Prism scum? I don't think for a second, the mods make this game breakable by flavor, and if scum Prism was given that as a fake claim, probably, which means it wasn't meant to be alignment indicative anyway.

I'm going to lean heavily on Nacho for this read, but on my own I'd be scumreading Mastina right now. My main niggle that counters the read is that I feel like she'd move heaven and earth to get into the game earlier if she she's scum. Maybe that wasn't in the cards? Still.

I'm also cautious because I had a really strong reaction of scumreading people who were scumreading my townreads in the Tenet game. I could never completely let go of that scumread because of her involvement in the Annie hydra wagon. And although I don't feel nearly as confident about prism-town as I did notsci in that game, the prism scumread, particularly part related to game flavor really sits wrong with me. Maybe I just relate too strongly to the character or something. I don't think that's what I'm doing here wrt Mastina's read of Prism, but I feel a little cautious.

Not sure what to think of titus and interaction with math bland there :/

could you talk to me about this?

i'm townreading too many people and i liked titus's interaction there but titus could very well be a weak spot.

Oh nachgres do you have any thoughts on spiffeh?

pretty firmly townreading him at this point in the read.

Thanks for the spiffeh read. I'm feeling pretty damn good about him being town too at this point, so it's nice that you've provided backup!

I'm pretty happy to be arriving at that read on my own, on top of Nacho's read.

For Titus, uh I felt like the interaction felt wrong at the same level that Bell's interaction felt wrong. I think that Bell is probably town now regardless of the pedantic mansplaining me on how I felt about their interactions, and I think that Bell's push there feels pretty similar to the shelly push in xenoblade, so is probably town. But with Titus I'm much less sure, and the interaction felt kind of mother hennish in a way that didn't feel natural. The bit that felt like it was the type of "Get in line or I'll policy lynch you" when I don't think math has been doing anything really wrong here. I think he's been put in defensive mode here, which makes him hard to read, but nothing that's policy level, you know. Mathblade was another one I was worried I was forcing a town read on, but I don't really find anything scummy about him. Maybe not as tunneling as I thought he was as town, but I have exactly one game of experience, so I don't know what to expect there. I do think things like "GreyIce is town because I understand him" weirds me out because like GreyIce is an intelligent human being who can string sentences together and I can't really buy that reasoning as a real read, but I still think he's probably town. Spiffeh being so convinced there makes me just a tad worried about Spiffeh actually. But apparently any interaction or read with Mathblade makes me worried about both involved, and I'm not really sure what to make of that.

But one thing I was thinking about this morning was this post:

Ok. I realized my error and read deeper. I think that we should look at two phases with different leaders. People good at townblocking should lead at assigning artifacts. Those good at scumhunting should lead bronzing. These are separate people. I'd defer to Tammy on the artifact (assuming she's town) and LLD (same assumption) leading the afternoon phase. It's harder to scumhunt here without pressure.

Catching up.

On it's face this post isn't problematic, but she has LLD as the person who should lead the afternoon phase because good at scumhunting, but at the time LLD had scumread Mathblade (and wanted him dead asap), Titus, maybe Prism, maybe Spiffeh. Titus was town reading Math, there's Titus herself, and there wasn't reads on Spiffeh or Prism given yet. It just feels odd to me to say that LLD should be in charge of leading the afternoon when the scum reads don't add up. I might be seeing too much in this which I guess could have just been a side thought, but that also doesn't match up to the treatment of LLD once she claimed Mason. Now I get 100% people being concerned that it's a fake claim, but the turn in hostility with things like LLD is playing like shit (which really can we just as a group remember we're not 5 year old asshats trying to make everyone feel like shit???), that she just wants control, and the tantrum bit felt odd and I’m not sure what to do with it. I don’t like her blaming mathblade for taking up her scumhunting space when there are others who are actually making throw away posts that some of that should be directed to.

I don’t feel good I don’t know if that answered your question cuz I kinda just ended up rambling.

your rambles make sense to me, maybe partly because I think Titus is scum!

But if you're scum putting in work this game I'm still going to slam dunk you just FYI

This post here I also thought about this morning. Kinda knee jerk didn’t like it when you posted it but I wasn’t sure why. I think why I don’t is that it feels purple prosish in a sense. And ffery’s posts haven’t hit town paean more yet, so that knee jerk there just feared it’s ugly head this morning. I guess I also don’t quite get what you guys are getting out of the house questioning Dunn over him saying you guys were getting town read too easily either.

Okay my car is done, so I’m stopping here. I might have more to say about the above. Will come back later when I’m at home.

"purple prose"! That's one of your nacho scumtells. Purple or not, we're town. I think he was ribbing you because of how much he wanted us to rand scum and get a chance to cross off his bucket list item.

Regarding my paean or lack thereof, I have a basic and fundamental level of discomfort in playing right now, but the only way past that is to get back on the horse. It's related to both my most recent games, and that's all I'm gonna say about

that

because there's an inflated ego on the line, and it's not mine!

Nacho's scumreading Dunn enough to vote him, which makes me coming to a conclusion about Dunn a priority. I pulled a thread in one of his posts and it unraveled from there. I'm not good at letting go of things once they've caught my attention. From the last post I made in reply to him, you should be able to tell that

my

Dunn read has headed townward.

This is the first time Nacho and I have hydra'd since the Forest Fire game. I'm feeling a little shaky after Tenet. I want to lean on him, but I know his availability is limited. You likely have a better idea than I do when we'll get our next chance to sync. I'm planning to play fully solo today and until he's back and we can hash things out.

@sangres:

Your posts themselves are town but I am very concerned that Nacho is actually playing the game.

-----------------

Nacho's last post was Monday night 723. I've thrown some quotes and links into our chat that I want feedback on, but I don't think he's had any time to really dig into even those posts. Until he's around again, you get me.

[sangres]

My Kitty Trauma Team worries are growing. I like some of what they've posted. I'm surprised mala hasn't tried to connect with us more. Nacho has some concerns, too, partly to do with kuribo. Not sure I can do them justice for him in his absence, so they can wait until Nacho's around.

Nachos just gonna have to get over it, it's not like I'm in the middle of moving and working 70 hours a week and hate being town and presently having Covid vaccine side effects like a mother or slipped last night in a puddle of dog piss and busted my bad knee. I mean obviously I'm just so active all over the site, that's why I post nightly in my NES thread. Oh no wait I haven't even had time for that in over a week.

Turns out a hydra consisting of two retired players working in Covid hotspot fields aren't the most active posters


I mean who knew

And since y'all always hate on hydras who have dissonance between them, Mala gets my reads first. Love it or don't, idgaf, imma go throw up now. Deuces.

I'm sorry things aren't going great and I'll try to factor in your and Mala's time constraints. I'm not trying to piss you off. I'm trying to read you. We both have to read you guys somehow or other, based on what you post.

Personally, I don't get worked up about dissonance as long is I can see that the individual reads are internally consistent.

---------------------------

Was skimming the thread yesterday in between calls and then having a major freak out because I didn’t have just vomit on one piece of clothing, but two after my patient decided to leave me that present.

So the whole LLD v Math v Dunn is kinda taking up majority of the thread and I think right now scum are hiding in that distraction. I have a strong townread on 2/3 of those players. Kuribo actually agrees with me on that as well. For Dunn I’m more or less reading null on him. I’m not 100% following the scum read on him, but the last time I had a decent vibe on him it turned out to be wrong.

Who do you think is hiding in the distraction?

@Fery: Part of the reason why I haven’t connected was the last game I played with a few familiar faces I got snowed really hard by them. So I’m trying to disconnect the buddying approach as it majority fucked me last game I was in.

How does your non-buddying approach work? I'm really not sure how to go about reading 2021-Mala.

I don’t think both twins are the same alignment. I actually happen to believe that Titus will have a decent chance at flipping scum, whereas, Math will most likely flip town.

This is a point of agreement.

I’m currently liking Mastina’s posting. She can go in my townbin for now.

What is it you like about Mastina's posting?

VOTE: SirCakez

Kuribo has a gut feeling that this slot is prob scum. I have to agree with it. Between the whole trying to paint a picture with the whole wording over a “meltdown” that wasn’t really a “meltdown”.

Even tho I been at work for an hour I’m not fully awake so give me a bit of time to let my antimurder juice kick in and I’ll try to post something more of a better read list

-M

That's an interesting trajectory. Am I getting tangled up in dissonance?

-----------------------------

I don't have a read on Dunn myself. I didn't think he'd done anything overly scummy in his first few posts and his posts read okay to me? That is not saying much. In popcorn his posts read okay to me? but in Popcorn there were a couple small things that bugged me that I let go/ignored which I shouldn't have. I know that you guys are starting to lean town on him now, but I'm still in eh his posts are fine, but I don't have an actual read there. I just reread through his iso and yeah, I just don't know.

I'm starting to lean a little town on him based partly on our interaction, even though it reminds me a little bit of the go-around that skitter had in 2181 with scum-me, and I'm not sure why. I leaned into that interaction, and Dunn seemed to be trying to disengage, kinda?

You might have said this before, but are you guys leaning/still leaning town on math blade? Or do you guys have any issue with the people I've thought are town? Something feels off for me this game, and I'm not sure if it's the reads I'm approaching at or if it's the game state. I think I have the most concerns about Titus, Mastina, Cakez, Pooky and quiet but it doesn't feel right that it's the scum team.

We're leaning town on Math. I think I mentioned some discomfort with his page 30 posts. In some ways the situation is a lot like Dunn. Both got jumped on early and maybe knocked a little off balance? It can be hard to rebalance as any alignment. I feel like Math went paranoid some, started trying to scumhunt in the reactions and interactions, and flashed through a series of mental states based on feeling like he was getting elimed and like he had no footing really to fight back at LLD's push, especially. flail or lack thereof is more a personality marker than an alignment marker, I think? But, alignment does filter things. Townflail is a thing.

Of those four, the one we feel best about is Pooky. For me, it's contingent on other stuff in the gamestate, and I think for Nacho, too.

--------------------

Yes. It was. I want to see more. insert paragraph about rapidly evolving new players here.

This was about quiet's opening post. What's your current thinking on the slot/what made you iffy on the start? I know you didn't want to reveal fully what you're expecting, but I suspect you can go a bit deeper here.

I thought Quiet might be a little less heart-on-sleeve after Iceland, so the reserve isn't surprising. but I feel like his posts are more self-contained? Not as much reaction/replying. It's hard to say for sure with just 8 posts to look at.

In general, big drop-off in activity from one game to the next in a new player gives me strong scum-vibes. Right now, I'm thinking he's scum even though what content he's put down, on the face of it doesn't scream scum.

More content, and soon is what I need here.

----------------------

Me? I was a mason. I can spend day 1 trolling random people, refuse to give reasoning for my reads, generally annoy people, and make it look like I'm a possible mislynch. I can start a random pissing contest with Deacon Blues, even though I'm 90% on them being town. I was literally lynch-proof (seriously, on day 2 I was confirmed town to 4 of the 10 players. 6 were needed for lynch).

i'm not sure i ever internalized that post when it was originally made. point taken i guess; i still don't love the "town for being reasonable" take as it seems too, sigh, "surface level" in that i find it hard to believe it comes from someone who actually gives a shit about getting the right answer

Yeah I'm not trying to bolster Math's point there. I just felt like you had a slightly skewed view of Grey's townplay based on that one game, especially given the post I highlighted.

It was a deacon blues shared experience, and for me it was a slightly misleading one when it came to playing with Grey again.

I think also from non-experiential meta that "let LLD and Grey sort each other out" has some utility, though the possibility they're both scum can't be totally dismissed at least in the general case, which this game isn't.

Apropos of nothing,

Unless you're scum with Prism, which I doubt, I feel like your game-design thoughts look pretty town.

It makes more sense to me than your spec in Illicit did. I hope I'm not setting my feet on the garden path here.

[sangres]

Oh, hottest take Mastina is scum.

Also, I will be upset if Titus, Mathblade and Mastina are all town. That would suck.
I miss quiet.

----------------

<3

I have been trying to personally use work less as an excuse during games, but I have been learning to balance it a bit more since coming back to the site.

I came back to the site in August and felt like I got fairly well back into it with a few bumps and bruises, and then I got utterly buried in the Tenet game. I think I'm shaking that off. I hope.

To answer your question regarding the distraction: I noticed a bit of a pattern we had a mixture of different people posting and then the type of content that were being posted.

I had liked how Math engaged Prism during the morning, but things went south when LLD got into the mixture and then it just went up in a fiery blaze — just like my call today.

We had people who I noticed who were trying to sort out reads in addition to trying to get a hand on the artifact during the morning. (Tammy/Sangres/Math/LLD) Then we had the players that posted, but their content to say the least I would describe as a mixture of “one liners/trolly/buddy-buddy”.(Bell, BM, SirCakez, Pooky) then we had a few players who posted no content at all such as prod-dodges or those who barely posted at all. (Dunn, Mastina, GreyICE, Bork).

Those players who weren’t in the whole trying to sort players out kinda got to stay in the shadows as you would call it. I think personally a lot of people just started to go with the flow and was like let’s vote Math D1, which then obviously got stronger once LLD claimed.

I like this. I came out of the Prism/Math stuff with a strong townread on Prism, and that read definitely colored my take on Prism/LLD. I'm not unhappy with how it's resolved at least to this point. Prism isn't a stake in the ground for me this game, but I might have tried to make him one if I needed a read for the game to pivot on.

I haven’t really gotten a handle on my play style anymore because I feel like I’m so rusty with mafia that before Hiatus I was terrible and then when I came back I’m even worse. I have really only played maybe four games and only one was scum and that game I felt like I did better, but that’s because I was able to hide a bit during the player list. I just know I got wrapped up in my last game I played as town and got distracted and didn’t sort the “older” players because I tried too hard to sort the newer and got snowed really hard. I kinda brushed off the older players.

Coming back from my hiatus, I'm finding it difficult to sort a whole large theme game-sized player list (smokefilled antechamber didn't count in this respect because I was in a dethy embedded in the game, which made the rest of the game basically a mini theme). I like large themes, though, so I'll probably struggle along until I figure out how to do this again.

Along with the fact since coming back from Hiatus I barely remember any meta, or meta-tells on players are now gone or at least evolved from when I was last active.

Preach.

I know I’ll need more solid proof, but the last time I played with Titus she turned out to be town and I feel like she’s 180 here currently. She hasn’t really even acknowledged my present/tried to sort me like she would in past games. Then again I don’t know if we have a personal disconnect going here or maybe I just feel like there might be.

I've been told by multiple players/hydra partners that Titus has mellowed post-divorce and is a more enjoyable person to play with now. We were both in the Tenet game and both town, but were in opposite threads (the game was divided into two threads until day 4). We interacted a little over her (correct) LLD read, but not enough for me to get a sense of what her town play is like now.

I think it’s because I’m finding myself agreeing with a lot of Mastina’s posting. I’ll do a separate post with quotes for you.

Your slot is getting tangled up in dissonance. Kuribo has a theory regarding your slot, but we need a flip or two in order for him to flesh it out. So it’s really hard to explain because it’s so early with no flips in order to do it. I actually happen to be okay with your posts or at least I’m not finding anything red-flaggish. So we have a conflict here.

-M

I'm a little sad. :/

I like Kuribo, and that Peregrine-modded NY game I played with original Serene in 2013 really made an impression on me in terms of DGB and kuribo as players. When he's ready to get active again maybe we can talk through whatever it is.

This was originally better, but then when my iPad died I lost the whole entire post and I’m kinda brain dead and exhausted from the whole day.

Spoiler: “This is why I didn’t post today”

Yow. A few years ago a drunk driver in a pickup truck went airborne and landed in my across-the-street neighbor's living room. This looks worse. Hope any injuries were minor.

Ok maybe it was only post 932 that I liked in regards to Mastina. >>

I guess if I were to actually flesh out her posts they are underwhelming to say the least

Yeah.

-------------------

Still in the middle of my catchup but feeling solid with my Dunnstral vote.

The way he's approaching his extended engagements, particularly with sangres: not really acknowledging or caring where ffery is coming from when she's gone above and beyond to explain her issues with him, and acting like he has an answer for everything while she's the one in the wrong really bothers me.

In Tenet, town!Dunnstral seeked out hard town reads Deacon Blues and Dandelion Wine (who ended up being scum, but irrelevant) who he discussed EVERYTHING with, to the point that their neighborhood PT almost reached 50 pages by the end of the game. He constantly bounced ideas off of them in the neighborhood; I literally got to-the-minute play-by-plays in the scum Discord from Cabd about Dunnstral's latest theories and reads. He was always churning them out because he had a bloc he felt confident in, and obviously valued their opinions.

Where in his ISO does Dunn exhibit this desire to identify and mind meld with his town reads? I can't find anything. He lists LLD, Prism, and Bell as town reads. He has not engaged with ANY OF THEM on reads one time. Bell, one of Dunn's listed town reads, has me as his highest townread, while Dunn himself has me as one of his strongest scum reads. There's been no initiative on Dunn's end to convince Bell he's wrong, or try to engage with Bell about what he sees. Because he doesn't care about finding scum.

90% of his posts are reactionary, whether it be in response to MathBlade, ffery, myself, borkjerfkin. This isn't bad on its own, but these interactions offer no visible evaluation or desire to see where the other player is coming from, he's just getting into extended back and forths to inflate his post count and seem like he's contributing when he's not.

Everything listed above is so unlike the town!Dunnstral I have seen. He is not town here.

That was Dunnstral replacing into a slot that already looked strongly town thanks to unwnd's play. Coming into the game, he had the benefit of unwnd's cred, unwnd's reads on other players, and a whole lot of thread data to work with on his own. And then he made the slot his own, for sure. I don't think this situation in this game is comparable. At least yet.

I'm not holding Day-1 Dunnstral here to that level of play in this game.

Kuribo is going to be out of commission until he feels better. He’ll be keeping me updated, but I want him to focus on feeling better.

@Prism: I was in between whether or not you were town/scum from when you and Math were first being engaged. I dead set agree with Math that you kept saying that your claim would show you are super town, but in terms of flavor it doesn’t. The enough information/episodes I watched I have to agree that H.G. wells wouldn’t start off with that artifact.

I also know P_A/Cabd enough that they wouldn’t let a game get broken via flavor.

Right now my personal reads (outside of Kuribo’s) are more vibes than actual cases. I have a really bad feeling regarding Titus/Prism/SirCakez.
I do think LLD/Math are likely to flip town. I have a feeling that Tammy/Mastina are town. I do have a feeling sangres might be town* (*this may change depending on how Prism flips)
I really didn’t like Bells/Dunn/BM beginning posts.

-M

I think you’re missing my point.

I think this doesn’t make sense for town prism and scum prism (which necessitates scum Bork and sorts itself out)

The powers claimed kinda confirms LLD as mason much as I tried to avoid that so LLD likely doesn’t get shot. Hence the winkies as I was being sarcastic and hoping people doubted LLD as a mason not to run her up but to avoid being shot.

I think yes the powers are scum utility but scum Prism just doesn’t out that and confirm LLD and another player without a serious game plan. Prism’s plan was flawed but I think it’s so flawed it can’t be scum.

Okay now that I can somewhat focus.

It doesn’t make sense for either alignment. I was actually half thinking a traitor role for Prism which would actually make sense for HG flavor.

I knew what you were doing with the winks in regards to LLD.

Then again the way prism has gone about this game is all types of odd. I don’t really see how scum-Prism does this, but again I don’t see how town-Prism does it either.

I just don’t want us to say okay its so flawed it can’t be scum and then she flips scum after all of it.

If this game wasn't advertised as not multiball I think HG would make sense as a 3rd party. given her story arc, her sympatico and self-sacrifice for Myka, traitor doesn't feel right to me. And yeah, I know that flavor-solving a PA game reviewed by Cabd et al is ill-advised. That goes for both of us.

Which brings us back to Prism's play.

Which I townread.

If I'm wrong, tlaloc willing, I'll figure it out.

Ffery - I forgot that I meant to tell you that yeah nacho is working way too much right now, and had a dumb overnight day slipped in which always fucks everting up, I imagine that whether you or the game will hear from him today depends on if he works late and how tired he is when he gets home and what time he works tomorrow. I hear you on Pooky. I haven’t seen him as town and you have, so maybe there’s a difference? He doesn’t really feel any different to me than the last two times I saw him as scum. The towniest thing he’s done so far is make that image.

Yeah nacho left me a message in chat about pre-inventory. Y'all get unadulterated me until further notice.

My one direct experience with town-Pooky, I was scum and I find that a less than ideal perspective to develop future reads from. I watched the Death Curse game off and on in real time, though, and my impression is that there isn't a whole lot of tonal difference. He can be charming as both alignments, abrasive as both alignments, pushy as both alignments, etc. My read here is more about his positioning than about his tone or tempo, though I did get a really nice sense of tempo from the way he addressed my "worried" post. But, it was an entirely social interaction, which occurred fluidly and seemed pretty deft in terms of turning the convo away from substance. He does this as both alignments in my somewhat short experience.

There was a point in Mini 2181 where pooky and I had a fairly long exchange about our motivations in mafia. Syr later compared the exchange to a snooker tournament. Anyway, I think that fundamental motivation he described and linked an example probably comes through in extremity in his town games, especially, and it's something I'll keep in mind.

----------------------

Unless you're scum with Prism, which I doubt, I feel like your game-design thoughts look pretty town.

It makes more sense to me than your spec in Illicit did. I hope I'm not setting my feet on the garden path here.

It should be clear that my bunk-ass (at least, that's how I felt in my anxiety-ridden notes PT) flavor spec in Illicit was done w/ the specific intent to miselim a particular and incredibly strong PR claim.

This isn't even in the same universe of a situation; why would I have to be scum w/ Prism to present this opinion as scum?

It's not a great comparison, but I gotta start somewhere in watching you sort me. If you're scum with Prism, then you worked together on the reveal and confirmation before they hit the thread and the apparent LACK of agenda/intent is a mirage. And granted, it's a different, less fraught situation and probably easier to finesse. hence the garden path part of my post.

[sangres]

Still in the middle of my catchup but feeling solid with my Dunnstral vote.

The way he's approaching his extended engagements, particularly with sangres: not really acknowledging or caring where ffery is coming from when she's gone above and beyond to explain her issues with him, and acting like he has an answer for everything while she's the one in the wrong really bothers me.

In Tenet, town!Dunnstral seeked out hard town reads Deacon Blues and Dandelion Wine (who ended up being scum, but irrelevant) who he discussed EVERYTHING with, to the point that their neighborhood PT almost reached 50 pages by the end of the game. He constantly bounced ideas off of them in the neighborhood; I literally got to-the-minute play-by-plays in the scum Discord from Cabd about Dunnstral's latest theories and reads. He was always churning them out because he had a bloc he felt confident in, and obviously valued their opinions.

Where in his ISO does Dunn exhibit this desire to identify and mind meld with his town reads? I can't find anything. He lists LLD, Prism, and Bell as town reads. He has not engaged with ANY OF THEM on reads one time. Bell, one of Dunn's listed town reads, has me as his highest townread, while Dunn himself has me as one of his strongest scum reads. There's been no initiative on Dunn's end to convince Bell he's wrong, or try to engage with Bell about what he sees. Because he doesn't care about finding scum.

90% of his posts are reactionary, whether it be in response to MathBlade, ffery, myself, borkjerfkin. This isn't bad on its own, but these interactions offer no visible evaluation or desire to see where the other player is coming from, he's just getting into extended back and forths to inflate his post count and seem like he's contributing when he's not.

Everything listed above is so unlike the town!Dunnstral I have seen. He is not town here.

I want to come back to this because I don't feel like I did it justice. I feel like the comparison to Tenet is a really heavy BoP hurdle for someone to clear, especially when they get kneecapped almost immediately coming into the game.

The objective stuff you're saying - about his posts being reactionary and that it's not evident that he's trying to get into the mindset of the person who's talking to him, and he's not visibly sorting people or reaching out. That's all true.

And I was actually contrasting that to Mathblade when I was writing my responses to Tammy. The stuff that Mathblade IS doing after being kneecapped and limping around -- is the stuff that Dunnstral isn't doing.

I'm townreading Mathblade for making that effort.

My scumread of Dunn has softened because objectively from my side of what's going on, I have been nitpicking one post and the conversation that arose from questioning it. I'm still not satisfied with the answers. But, I acknowledge that it's a nit. I feel like Dunn's reactions weren't good, weren't productive, didn't help me see his thought process, and didn't involve him digging to understand my thought process.

I feel like you've maybe painted my side of the argument in too good a light. Because I like thinking of the argument in those terms, but that's not how I saw it when I was trying to see things from Dunn's described headspace and see why he'd react to my questions the way he did.

[sangres]

Mastina's posts from last night didn't change my read, except maybe for the worse. The Grey side of that exchange, I do like. Cautiously.

Sangres;

I'm definitely a player who thinks townreads can form too early in the game, when I see that happening I think players are being careless or not doing their due diligence or coming to conclusions too fast. That's all if they're town, which most people are, and I haven't hashed out whether this is something scum does more or what but I suspect it's pretty neutral. Do you really think you played in a way where you couldn't reasonable be scum - not just playing well, but playing average - when other players townread you?

That's what I was doing; you didn't see it in Tenet because I replaced into that game.

You're misrepresenting me here.

One player. And you verified that later. And if you looked at my exchange (and Nacho's for that matter), neither of us thought our reaction to Prism's partial claim was anywhere near outside our scumrange. Prism's explanation for why our reactions came off town was nuanced enough that we don't hate it.

My issue wasn't that I thought you were discounting valid townreads on us. It was that you were positing and discounting an unnamed number of townreads that weren't in evidence at that time.

This is not a one-time pattern. You make a sweeping statement related to us. We ask for evidence. You can't find evidence to back up your statement. You can barely cherry pick enough out of our iso to support having a vague impression of something kinda similar, here.

Spoiler:

Sircakez, Battle Mage, GreyIce, and yourself

This is resistance to mathblade, not all are ok with going titus as well; most are instead tunneled on me to a frankly unrealistic degree

Sangres is honorarily ont he list because they keep directing questions at me while supposedly suspecting Mathblade but it doesn't have the same feel

Sircakez, Battle Mage, GreyIce, and yourself

This is resistance to mathblade, not all are ok with going titus as well; most are instead tunneled on me to a frankly unrealistic degree

Sangres is honorarily ont he list because they keep directing questions at me

while supposedly suspecting Mathblade

but it doesn't have the same feel

What?

We've been settled on a Mathblade townread since before the afternoon phase started, and I don't think Nacho ever had a scumread on Math.

We voted you last night.

Nacho told LLD that we'd to Titus if she'll vote there.

And then I moved our vote from you to Titus when Greyice voted there. That was a very comfortable move to make, not only because Nacho had already indicated he'd vote there, but also because my scumread of you has weakened over your content over the last 24 hours. I pushed you on your comments about people giving us too easy townreads because it was one of my points of concern, and I didn't absolutely hate your responses to that.

I have some vague feels that Math's page 30 posts sounded a little too "look how I'm not caring if I get miselimed", but the preponderance of his posts, particularly interactions with Titus and Bell, feel town to Nacho, and I'm very comfortable going along with that.


----------------------

@Math, I'm EXTREMELY uncomfortable with your post count burn rate in a page-restricted game.

Have you played with Math since coming back from hiatus?

I haven't. Nacho probably has more recent game experience than me.

I'm not townreading Math.

I'm going to take this under advisement because Mathblade's approach to the game, particularly that bit about 1 but not 2 scum in prism/bork gave me a nasty case of hives. Maybe you can be the counter-balance to my tendencies wrt

I kinda feel the same but I'm not sure how much of it comes from the Dunn wagon basically popping up as a counter to the Mathblade push.

This is what I was looking at when I made the post.

I like kuribo's posts today, and I liked mala's interaction with me yesterday. Feeling better about KTT.

---------------

LLD I have questions but I'm not willing to push you for more details on some things. Nothing more to say here atm, just...frustration.

---------------

Sircakez, Battle Mage, GreyIce, and yourself

This is resistance to mathblade, not all are ok with going titus as well; most are instead tunneled on me to a frankly unrealistic degree

Sangres is honorarily ont he list because they keep directing questions at me

while supposedly suspecting Mathblade

but it doesn't have the same feel

What?

We've been settled on a Mathblade townread since before the afternoon phase started, and I don't think Nacho ever had a scumread on Math.

We voted you last night.

Nacho told LLD that we'd to Titus if she'll vote there.

And then I moved our vote from you to Titus when Greyice voted there. That was a very comfortable move to make, not only because Nacho had already indicated he'd vote there, but also because my scumread of you has weakened over your content over the last 24 hours. I pushed you on your comments about people giving us too easy townreads because it was one of my points of concern, and I didn't absolutely hate your responses to that.

I have some vague feels that Math's page 30 posts sounded a little too "look how I'm not caring if I get miselimed", but the preponderance of his posts, particularly interactions with Titus and Bell, feel town to Nacho, and I'm very comfortable going along with that.


----------------------

@Math, I'm EXTREMELY uncomfortable with your post count burn rate in a page-restricted game.

This type of posting is why I feel sangres can be scum.

They're objecting to me, yet sheeping my opinion about Mathblade's post rate. He gives no real reason for his objection to me and tries to pass the buck off onto LLD for their read.

They're seeking a popular miselimination to be safe on. If Math is group scum, turbo lim this. If Math is traitor, major FoS. If Math is town, minor FoS as he could be leaving/creating an out to vote Math when convienent.

Math's posts over the last 24 hours have degraded my townread some. They feel kinda trollish. I still feel like I'm predisposed to bristle over his playstyle (this was where I was at pre-hiatus and that apparently hasn't changed much with time away), but he's in a place where he can't try to control the game and was never going to be in a place to control the game to the extent I think he likes to in this player list. Or even in half this player list.

Re you, I was predisposed to bristle over your playstyle pre-hiatus, too, though for different reasons. That's apparently changed. Your posts aren't pissing me off. But they're not impressing me as coming from town. At all.

Re your Prism vote based on Mastina's case: ugh. I'm not going to get into an exchange of walls over flavor with Mastina, but her case for HG being scum flavor really is simplistically awful. HG is driven to do terrible things in season 2 because of overwhelming grief and a sense of being lost in a horrible, evil, irredemable time instead of the golden age that the steampunk-y science fiction genre she wrote expected. She doesn't come to her senses at the moment of death, but from a place of pure reason and love. She doesn't covet artifacts for power and control. She doesn't sell artifacts to people who will use them for personal aggrandizement. She isn't warped by artifacts. She's a flawed, redeemable and ultimately redeemed human being who goes on to do good. A lot of good.

Anyway. The flavor is not why I think Prism is town. I was townreading Prism before the flavor reveal. The flavor certainly doesn't shake that read, though.

-------------------

Prism could you talk about your Cakez read? Never mind, I see it's a work in progress. I can wait.

------------------

Kuribo had already touched on what he didn’t like some what about your slot when he posted with SC/Prism/LLD. When he’s feeling better hopefully you two can interact and get that sorted. IDK I have never been the best at reading either you/nacho. Usually you were able to spot town-Mala over scum-Mala and work out with me once you had that sorted. I just have this vibe you are probably town, but again it’s still early and I need to interact more with you/others.

Yeah I saw that. I dunno. Maybe my Prism read isn't getting the rigor it should. I feel really good, though, that Nacho and I got to the same place on that read based on the same data, even though we have mostly different bodies of experience with Prism. This is the first time we've both played with him, if I don't count the Xeno game. My hydra with Tammy and Syr was only alive for a very short day 1. It almost seems silly to count that game because it was dominated by town-Cabd and his reads/gambits/crumb-reading, neighborhoods, etc. And the scum team just kinda feel over their feet and got elimed one after another for a perfect win. Nobody else's reads really mattered, in the sense of changing the outcome.

Anyway. Prism does have an incredibly formidable scum game as I observed as mod in Newbie 2051 (the Iceland game that's been mentioned a few times). This doesn't look like Amazingly-TOWN scum-Prism, though. Like I said before, it just looks town to me.

-----------------

@Bork, what are your thoughts on stuff?

I feel like Battle Mage is in a sort of blind spot. I need to work on that.

[sangres]

@Bork, what are your thoughts on stuff?

stuff that you particularly commented on here, off the cuff:

Game is starting to get a little drowned out by non-AI chest thumping but:

Still think Math is town; what do you mean by "Trollish" - reading this as more "I'm continually slighted by LLD; what can I even do here?" and am not bothered by it

Thanks. This is why I wish Nacho was around, to counterbalance my predispositions. I know they're there, but I can't fully stomp them.

I actually like everything from Dunn 1125+

I like that post, too. And I feel like the BoP stuff from Spiffeh related to Dunn's play in that game is unfair, though I don't scumread Spiffeh for thinking that way.

Agree w/ Prism town and don't really see anything that suggests otherwise in that body of work. Whatever, Prism could probably run circles around me if they wanted but I'm just not seeing the angles of attack that some others are making; seems breadth focused, analytic, bristly when attacked for the wrong reasons, pretty much everything I saw in 2181.

Agree. I don't think similar tone and tempo to that game makes Prism town. It's the content here that I feel comfortable with.

I think Cakez is town?; I noted that he called out Prism's read on me in particular as something that he disagreed with, but had me in null, and was looking for another spot where he and Prism differed in a more profound way and couldn't really find one. is poking at stones mostly ignored by others.

Yeah. I laughed a hollow laugh at Pooky's jibe about self-meta there.

Don't really like anything Mastina has posted so far, esp wrt that flavor angle

Obviously, same. I probably won't move my vote there without Nacho having a look because I have a fair bit of respect for nacho's ability to read Mastina, though I still and will always keep the Walking Dead game in mind.

Don't like any of Titus' voting patterns esp wrt Mathblade.

I just don't feel any conviction from Titus, and I definitely don't feel like she's made the slightest effort to engage me despite developing quite the scumread over the last 3-4 pages.

Don't really like Battle Mage's stance around Titus and Math or Dunn.

I liked his early-early posts and thought I could see where he was coming from. That's slight sync with where his head appeared to be at disappeared before morning phase ended and I've never recovered it.

We need to do more of this.

[sangres]

welp. screwed those quotes up. I think they're understandable. Let me know if not and I'll redo.

[sangres]

i comprehend.

I was in walking dead but replaced out when i got miserable (and i think my slot was NKed that night anyway) - what about mastina from walking dead is relevant here wrt her scum game in general?

Nothing specific, just a game where I scumread Mastina day 2 (I think?), Nacho townread her, and I let my concerns drop. Mastina was elimmed a few game days later and flipped traitor.

Excuse me, but am I the only one unsettled by the fact Bork has not mentioned Titus once prior to Ffery interaction and then

humped

jumped on after I voted.

-M

Preddit:

You done ducked up.

There's not a whole huge lot to bork's iso, but he has mentioned not liking Titus before.

[sangres]

1323 Redo:

@Bork, what are your thoughts on stuff?

stuff that you particularly commented on here, off the cuff:

Game is starting to get a little drowned out by non-AI chest thumping but:

Still think Math is town; what do you mean by "Trollish" - reading this as more "I'm continually slighted by LLD; what can I even do here?" and am not bothered by it

Thanks. This is why I wish Nacho was around, to counterbalance my predispositions. I know they're there, but I can't fully stomp them.

I actually like everything from Dunn 1125+

I like that post, too. And I feel like the BoP stuff from Spiffeh related to Dunn's play in that game is unfair, though I don't scumread Spiffeh for thinking that way.

Agree w/ Prism town and don't really see anything that suggests otherwise in that body of work. Whatever, Prism could probably run circles around me if they wanted but I'm just not seeing the angles of attack that some others are making; seems breadth focused, analytic, bristly when attacked for the wrong reasons, pretty much everything I saw in 2181.

Agree. I don't think similar tone and tempo to that game makes Prism town. It's the content here that I feel comfortable with.

I think Cakez is town?; I noted that he called out Prism's read on me in particular as something that he disagreed with, but had me in null, and was looking for another spot where he and Prism differed in a more profound way and couldn't really find one. is poking at stones mostly ignored by others.

Yeah. I laughed a hollow laugh at Pooky's jibe about self-meta there.

Don't really like anything Mastina has posted so far, esp wrt that flavor angle

Obviously, same. I probably won't move my vote there without Nacho having a look because I have a fair bit of respect for nacho's ability to read Mastina, though I still and will always keep the Walking Dead game in mind.

Don't like any of Titus' voting patterns esp wrt Mathblade.

I just don't feel any conviction from Titus, and I definitely don't feel like she's made the slightest effort to engage me despite developing quite the scumread over the last 3-4 pages.

Don't really like Battle Mage's stance around Titus and Math or Dunn.

I liked his early-early posts and thought I could see where he was coming from. That's slight sync with where his head appeared to be at disappeared before morning phase ended and I've never recovered it.

We need to do more of this.

------------------

New Stuff:

god i fucking sucked in walking dead

anyway, i appreciate the reachout as that has helped me center myself and figure out where i wanted to be.

Can you summarize nacho's conflicting take?

Do you mean his take on Mastina? Nacho hasn't seen any of Mastina's content posts afaik and doesn't have a take there yet, which is why I'm in a holding pattern on her, despite my scumread. Nacho's been too busy with work since Monday night to do more than acknowledge some of the posts I've linked from this game and apologize for not having time for games atm.

[sangres]

We are town. That's the one fact from which everything we post flows, and which shapes our thoughts about the game.

If you're town, Titus, I'm not sure why you'd misread us so emphatically.

I'm sorry the post limitation is such a problem for you. I see it as not that different from the FGO game, except we may actually run up against the limit this game day, something that never really threatened to happen in the FGO game.

I play conversationally, so keeping my postcount reasonable is a bit of a struggle, and I worry big quote-and-replies may cause eyes to glaze over.

Even so, I like this pace. I feel like everyone should be able to keep up with the game and if we do have replacements it won't be a Sisyphean ordeal to get into the game.

Tammy almost always has days where her worklife takes precedence. I don't think that prevents her from contributing significantly as any alignment. And, nacho and I, at least, have worked with her, and will continue to do so.

[sangres]

sangres, if it isn't obvious I honestly have no fucking clue who is scum this game, suggestions are welcome, looks like you kind of concur on Titus but do you have any others? iirc you also scumread Dunn for that weird ass interaction with us

Titus in general has been a delusional/cynical mess all game long, so I agree with you, there's just one or two posts that give me doubt.

I don't have a solve, and i'd be shocked if I did. My playstyle usually is more about townreads/POE, but I occasionally do get strong scumreads.

Titus moonlogic used to be a thing. I don't know if it still is. She wasn't totally off the deep end with her reads in the Tenet game IIRC, but we weren't in the same thread and I didn't pay as much attention to her as I would have if we could interact more directly. But, her moonlogic used to annoy me, not immediately make me think she was scum in most of the games I recall. I can't even call this moonlogic, really. I think some of what she posts is manufactured.

Her post about the dysfunctional townblock, it seems like we at least agree on some reads, though I don't agree we're in a hopelessly dysfunctional situation atm.

I'm scumreading Titus and Mastina.

I'm POE-ing Battle Mage.

Quiet is in this strange place where I think he's scum, I think he's going to get replaced, and and I think there's a really good chance a strong player could turn that slot around as either alignment and if that happens I sure hope they're town because I'll have trouble holding onto a read based on 8 posts.

I'm probably wrong on at least one of these reads if for no other reason than the size of the game.

@sangres, Everything flowing isn't how I read you. In fact, one could argue consistency is scummy.

Your position on me has been tunnely nonsense. I get some of the votes on me. Yours, I struggle to see a town perspective on. It feels like a chainsaw from my earlier posting. You never took me head on and said your problem imo but you were perfectly ok to sheep other opinions.

I play conversationally too but if everyone plays conversationally we get a deadline elimination on town. I suck day one (usually) so it's best to let others take charge with such bullshit in place.

The problem is that letting others take charge shouldn't lead to opinions being treated as bullshit or ignored. I felt compelled to reply to this post because this reachout from whichever head is talking feels rather genuine and caused me to reconsider that read.

I agree with the game pace being fine. The problem is it's because slots are silenced. Tammy and mastina have nothing memorable. I can't push on the Prism/Cakez issue because it would take too many posts to pressure the thread and demand that read from Cakez while fending off "confirmed" town. Fighting confirmed town when you suck at day 1, defending yourself takes valuable resources, and you can't get a solid person to sheep is hard. It's hopeless when I can't see who to get to work together.

I'll read through this one more time by Saturday at noon. Then eliminate me or not.

The popularity contest for artifacts encourages the lying for power. Then the post limit creates a tradegy of the commons situation with posting.

Every post I make takes a post from someone else. Players like Math don't get that. He sucks day 1 too and he spams. He doesn't work with others. I think his level of crazy is town this game but I have been burned before.

I guess what I need is hope. I don't see where it is.

This is ffery. If you were reading my posts, you'd know that because I've mentioned a couple times that Nacho's last post was on Monday night and our hydra chat has gone dark since then too, except for a quick explanation and apology for his inability to play right now due to work.

Everything flowing from my wincon is not consistency. In fact it tends to be inconsistent because I react.

A LOT.

to the gamestate changing.

I agree though that consistency can be a scum marker. It's part of what I look for in trajectory analysis.

Your stance on Mathblade looked really opportunistic and just...fake...to me. The idea that you'd townread someone and be willing to write them off so early on day 1 as a liability if they're town anyway is alien. I have run into players who I think are so bad as town that it's probably better to policy them, but it's almost impossible to follow through. If they're town, they're on my team.

I've been reluctant to engage you directly because we have ALWAYS clashed in games. I don't think you have ever played with scum-me. If you did, you'd know that I generally don't do traditionally strategic or tactical stuff as scum, like chainsawing. Or if I do, it's completely accidental because it's not where my focus is at.

This is also why your VCAs never speak to me when I'm town, too, and I wind up yelling at you about them until one of us is dead when you make eliming one of my strongest townreads your entire focus because of your VCA.

See that game where everyone had a post restriction that Serene 2 ran in 2015. Our conflict on AP was intractable. If you could have been reasoned with on that we might have been able to work together on reads where we agreed or where you were correct and I was wrong about another player.

------------

I see your post about depression and I hope some time away helps you feel better.

I considered deleting some of the above because I hate berating people who are in a bad place.

I'm leaving it because if there's any chance of you and I working together effectively in this game or in any future game, understanding where I come from as town and why I'd prefer to just not step into the huge pothole that seems to happen in every game we play together has to be a start. There is no doubt work I need to do to read you better and to play around the stuff you do that is antithetical to how I approach games. It's not like I'm always 100% right, or the final arbiter on how mafia should be played or something.

[sangres]

Prism, I forgot to talk about Dunn.

I feel to some extent like I'm chained to Nacho's and my scumread of Dunn from very early, but I've moved on and personally am not scumreading him now.

I don't know what Nacho will think of the stuff that made me feel better about Dunn being town. I probably won't go all in on that read without a sync.

[sangres]

Where is this idea that Mathblade is a policy yeet come from?

Math is a scum read and is perpetuating that thing to try and save himself. Nowhere did anyone call math a policy vote but himself.

Math is scum. It's not a vote this townie because they aren't helpful.

Titus has repeatedly characterized it as policy. Which is a chunk of my reasons for scumreading Titus.

Spoiler:

Math, there are at least three facepalms I see already from you, which prevent you from being effective or being the NK and increase your risk of being policied.

1) You still are not letting the thread breathe.

2) You claimed VT or strongly implied it.

3) Your setup speccing with no evidenve to do so.

4) In your rush to post, your reads are incomprehensible.

Wait a day. Then post a read wall.

I'm only suggesting this because I think your bonehead plays are anti-town but you aren't scum. Keep it up and I'll vote to policy you.

What is Math doing that helps him survive? I am moderately TRing him and even I am considering a policy elimination.

I'm also feeling a bit of dejavu on Math/Titus; I've heard the "math is acting bad and/or scummy but I think they're town, be better or I policy you" argument before almost verbatim.

Guilty. As a result that game, we got no scum eliminated. I had the other three I was willing to compromise on at some point. The thread wanted Math. We never could work together.

The post restriction is a limit of 80 something pages and you’re not even posting.

There’s 40 pages left.

There’s actually a pretty good town block imho, even if I am not in it which is my job as a Townie.
LLD, Kitty, sangres, Tammy, Pooky, Prism, bork and that’s off the top of my head.

Is Titus just defeated scum here?

And even here, she's calling all the non-Cakez wagons "policy".

Tammy isn't posting because of grading and spam. No one tries to work with her.
Kitty is town and fair to be in a block.
LLD is lying and not a team player so she is not in any block. She's a dictator.
Sangres isn't town which is a requirement. That's part of why town loses.
Pooky is fair in a block.
Prism isn't working with anyone and his interactions with Cakez are bad. If it wasn't for VCA, they'd be partners.
Bork is close to fair but not active enough to actually form a block.

Townblocks are active and discuss reads with each other. Aside from Cakez, it's which policy elimination to pursue.

I don't want to play in a post limited game with you and LLD but subbing out would be tactical and against the rules.

And yeah, there's nothing policy about the wagon to you.

[sangres]

And even here, she's calling all the non-Cakez wagons "policy".

That bit was my commentary, not the original post.

[sangres]

@LLD re 1375

a lot of what Math posts makes no sense at all to me, but I dunno, quite a bit of it sounds genuine? Some players are manipulative as any alignment.

Mathblade's posts sometimes give a trying to get control of the ball vibe. Before I went on hiatus he'd do that as both town and scum. I assume that's still the case.

------------------

I am extremely conflicted on Titus (hope you feel better soon btw, take care of yourself first).

I think her early posts addressing MathBlade directly seemed Town. Even mentioning policy limming didn't bother me, I perceived it as her trying to get Mathblade's head out of his ass. I also think Titus' early interactions with LLD lean way more Town than Scum. I imagine scum!Titus, especially after seeing the mason claim, wouldn't proceed to directly piss LLD off by calling out her 'tantrums' and calling her play shit, especially since LLD already had Titus as a scum read at the time. Titus holds LLD in high regard and realizes how much influence mason!LLD holds. Insulting her only jeopardizes her position even further, and I think Titus is smart enough to know that.

I also thought 1347 felt genuinely defeatist (unlike her earlier post with the VT claim) in a way that wasn't manipulative.

So did I, which is why I responded to it at length with my "you're scum" shield down.

However, I'm concerned that Titus' treatment of Mathblade hasn't evolved whatsoever, especially since I feel Mathblade has moved on and has established some thoughts that aren't motivated by odd interpretations of flavor. Writing off Mathblade's latest posts as nonsense when I feel he's made a drastic improvement feels off to me.

There was improvement, and then there was some really bizarre ideas about artifact design that fly in the face of everything I know and have experienced about the mod and reviewers of this game as human beings let alone game designers.

And to make this about me again, I'm turned off by the fact that Titus hasn't tried to engage my Dunnstral read that much? I caught Dunn dead to rights in

Titus

vs. Alisae, where Titus handpicked me as a mason and saw it firsthand, I had to force her to publicly approve the lim from the mason PT to push it through before deadline. She's mentioned and engaged with Dunn a few times but a large amount of her focus has been on Mathblade over him, and even though she was on his wagon initially she has stated she was on it for the sake of getting reads on people and hasn't given a stance since. I believe she's called me locktown here, so I feel like she would give Dunn more attention given her read on me here and knowledge of how I've caught Dunn in the past.

I'm afraid this might be an unfair expectation since the game was a year ago and I assume everyone is always hanging on my every word, but it's still nagging at the back of my head.

Overall, I am still aggressively unsure about Titus, as I was writing this post I wanted to give a "gun-to-my-head" read here but I don't even want to commit to that. I know she said she'd be back sometime this weekend, assuming she feels better, so hopefully that will be enlightening.

I am not dismissing your thoughts on Dunn. I can't evaluate from experience how realistic your expectations of Titus are wrt you having a Dunn scumread, but I am taking note and will keep it in mind.

Regarding your comments in regard to Battle Mage in 1407, I modded a newbie game where he was scum, and I played with him in Xeno and I think that's in for prior experience to this game. He was much more engaged in the scum game (though that was partly in the scum pt. he posted there at least as frequently as in the game, though with less volume). He never rose to enough attention in the Xeno game while I was in it to make much of an impression. The gamma slapfight was the most notable thing to me about him in that game. So, I'm mostly just looking at his play here and not liking his stances after early-to-mid morning phase.

I feel like I haven't done justice to him. It's a lazy read. I have a lot of townreads and he's not one of them.

-------------------

1304 is the towniest post in the game, from anyone. The fact that MathBlade is a contender to be limmed today is a travesty.

If I am alive (probably will be) then we can focus on Dunn tomorrow.

I actually thought it over what LLD is doing and I am not sure she has a choice. I think her messing up the gender may be a clue. I think the artifact is making her push me. In the show when a person was whammied with the comb they started talking strange. Lemme check something in thread after work.

This is the moment I went from "Maybe if I sit down and REALLY think about MathBlade for a few hours, I can understand him for alignment" into "I will never in a million years understand this slot"

This is actually the single most insane post I have ever read in a mafia game

Word.

------------------

1304 is the towniest post in the game, from anyone. The fact that MathBlade is a contender to be limmed today is a travesty.

If I am alive (probably will be) then we can focus on Dunn tomorrow.

I actually thought it over what LLD is doing and I am not sure she has a choice. I think her messing up the gender may be a clue. I think the artifact is making her push me. In the show when a person was whammied with the comb they started talking strange. Lemme check something in thread after work.

This is the moment I went from "Maybe if I sit down and REALLY think about MathBlade for a few hours, I can understand him for alignment" into "I will never in a million years understand this slot"

This is actually the single most insane post I have ever read in a mafia game

Yet I understood him perfectly

As in understood what he was saying? or as in thinking his theories about a whammy made sense?

[sangres]

So is that a hammer or no?

I really want the weekend to mindmeld and wall with Nacho about this game day. :/

[sangres]

Pooky, what reads do you really feel conviction on? I see you say Math/Titus/Cakez scum.

highest conviction SRs:

cake/mb/titus

lower level SRs:

bork/sangres hydra

Meh level TR:
Dunnstral

highest level conviction TRs:

kuribo/Bell/Spiffeh

I'm a little insulted that you think there's any comparison between this game and my (rather good for me) recent scumgame.

[sangres]

So is that a hammer or no?

I really want the weekend to mindmeld and wall with Nacho about this game day. :/

Pretty sure, not.

Kindaaaaa would prefer to go quiet I think.

Quiet's getting replaced. That actually kinda complicates things depending on the skills of the replacing player.

[sangres]

I mostly just want to know what Nacho has to say about Tammy and when he can be 100% sure if she's town or scum.

You can read me yourself!

(If I were scum, he'd have already caught me though and I'd probably already be hammered. I'm not joking. I haven't rolled scum in three years, except in a hydra with him last year and we only played a day, and he promised me that he'd not let me go. I don't know how to start a game strong as scum, was always my weakness and he'd be all over that. He might not be 100% at me town right now, but if I were scum he'd be 100% on that.)

So is that a hammer or no?

I really want the weekend to mindmeld and wall with Nacho about this game day. :/

Pretty sure, not.

Kindaaaaa would prefer to go quiet I think.

Quiet's getting replaced. That actually kinda complicates things depending on the skills of the replacing player.

HRM.

Are you waffling on Titus at all?

If you've got a micrometer you can probably measure my waffle. It's there, but it's small.

[sangres]

This seems like a good time to pull that moldy draft post I tucked away after Mathblade accused me of making an accidental scum PT post, to explain the ~insert paragraph~ that I didn't bother to insert because I figured that Prism's thoughts would be pretty similar to mine given similar meta experience with town-Quiet (mod vs informed scum).

I didn't want to too much into the thread about what was bothering me at that point because I expected Quiet to come back and I wanted the waters he'd have to navigate to be still, so I could see the ripples he made.

---------------------

Now that I think about it quiet's opening post was pretty rough.

Yes. It was. I want to see more. insert paragraph about rapidly evolving new players here.

I'm here to let everybody know that while I agree with Dunn that sangres town reads were unnatural at the beginning, Sangres is town.
Because I don't think FF, burdened with a scum role pm can compliment others in the middle of a game like that with Prism.*

*All my reads are subject to reversal.

I think Tammy was doing a seance with their boss's heart.

If you're talking about #300 at the top of this page, then you're attributing a Nacho post to me.

My puzzle is to figure out if this is a thing that town-bell would believe about scum/town ffery. :/

-----------------

Also, and this is a question for Dunn, too: Whose reads were unnatural and why?

Insert paragraph about rapidly evolving new players here? < What’s this?

Pretty sure my reads are bad and sangres is scum without a damn good explanation.

I started to write something about how that post didn't sound much like Iceland Quiet and it's the townread of us in this game that bothers me the most.

I'm not jumping on it because it's one post and IMO Quiet is an excellent new player. I modded his first and second newbie games and the strides taken were amazing. There were other differences in the games that factor into the changes. In his first game he was irrationally (IMO) tunneled by another player and mis-elimed. This is where my thought train about rapidly evolving newbie players comes in. There was an awkwardness to that post that I wanted to scumread because it seemed like almost a backslide from where I thought his game would go next, which could indicate a different alignment here. But, new player. rapidly evolving game. C'mon ffery, give him some room to move about the cabin.

The above paragraph is 2/3s boilerplate I'd think about any new, promising rapidly evolving player. Hence handwaving the thought train, which was mostly for Prism anyway since he was in one of those two games and basically made weaving a narrative around Quiet one of the centerpieces of his scum win. I figured Prism probably has similar issues with the post, and me spelling it out was totally unnecessary.

Also, lots of caveats about modding from an informed perspective vs playing from an uninformed one.

[sangres]

Tammy what are your thoughts on Battle Mage?

I think he's pretty scummy. I thought he was somewhat townish early. Then I thought he might have been a mason partner with LLD. IN fact, the way I read Battle Mage's reaction to Lld's claim as mason partner is why I initially believed LLD"s claim. But then I reread later, and I think I really misinterpreted. And then the change on his read on MathBlade for the dumb survivalstic reasons that Dunnstral claimed earlier felt all kinds of wrong, and really his posts just read smarmy to me and not at all fun troll like in xenoblade.

Damn it you are inside my head. I don't remember us synching quite like this in the ancient games of yore.

[sangres]

So I realize that this request comes without a handle on the game state whatsoever, but. I've waiting for a long ass time to play this game. The playerlist is pretty fire. It came during inventory week which means I haven't had time to wipe my own ass much less play mafia BUT. I should have time tomorrow night/Sunday afternoon.

Please no crazy hammers before then. I want to say hi to people. I want to shit talk and live life and make some wrong guesses before we get swept up into darkness and ffery yet again gets us killed somehow.

[sangres]

And yes, no matter how much you will say she was redeemed and wasn't truly villainous and all that--she literally spent two centuries bronzed, in containment, in confinement; she didn't get bronzed initially for being a good virtuous agent wrongly imprisoned; she got bronzed because she was a threat to the warehouse. And when she was unbronzed, she was STILL a threat to the warehouse. She was redeemed, yes. But why is it more likely that penguin_alien chose her time after redemption for her, than penguin_alien chose her time before redemption for her?

She wasn't bronzed because she was a threat to the warehouse. She was bronzed at her own request, and according to her own words she saw that bronzing as a form of time travel to the future. A future which upon arrival, horrified and disappointed her. Her daughter's murder, possibly the century+ spent conscious and completely immobile, and the state of the world when she was unbronzed worked together to unhinge her, but she was an apprentice agent in good standing during the WH12 days.

Also, ~110 years is not exactly two centuries /nitpick

The power of the trident in this game, as claimed by Prism and confirmed by Bork isn't something earthshattering and on the face of it isn't something explicitly anti-town.

I think you're trying to go off old and unverified memories about the series, and maybe you didn't follow it all that well in the first place. At least that's the charitable interpretation I can come up with for this kind of incorrect, but wrong in ways that bolster your theory crap.

As far as Prism's stated intent to change up how they play, tonally I'm not not seeing more abrasiveness than I did in mini 2181. At all. It's not that easy to shift playstyle, depending on what you're trying to shift, though I think Prism can shift abrasiveness more easily than most if they want to. 2181 was an extremely frustrating game at times for both alignments for a host of reasons, and I think Prism's abrasiveness that came out in that game was way more situational than tactical. I'm not seeing out-of-place abrasiveness (or much abrasiveness, but I'm a little color-blind in that emotional range) in Prism's play here. They're reacting pretty much in kind to snark posted in their direction. My game experience with Prism isn't extremely deep. I have more mod experience than play experience.

I still hate pretty much everything about your Prism case and I don't think you're going to shift that with more of the kind of posts you've made here. I doubt you'll be able to shift it at all, because I see way too much potential scum intent/benefit in what you're doing.

I have kinda been giving Tammy a pass here because of the disaster in Popcorn Mafia
Sangres is just tough for me to read; ffery always seems insanely town to me

We have what, 2 mutual games? I was town in both, and basically a mason in one of them. That's not very much data to make an "always seems" sort of statement? I have a very recent scumgame out there in meta land if you want some comparison. Or, maybe do more to engage us.

I have some very slight paranoia niggles with Tammy's play. Fortunately I'm hydraing with a Tammy expert and won't have to figure her out completely on my own.

[sangres]

Tammy what are your thoughts on Battle Mage?

I think he's pretty scummy. I thought he was somewhat townish early. Then I thought he might have been a mason partner with LLD. IN fact, the way I read Battle Mage's reaction to Lld's claim as mason partner is why I initially believed LLD"s claim. But then I reread later, and I think I really misinterpreted. And then the change on his read on MathBlade for the dumb survivalstic reasons that Dunnstral claimed earlier felt all kinds of wrong, and really his posts just read smarmy to me and not at all fun troll like in xenoblade.

Damn it you are inside my head. I don't remember us synching quite like this in the ancient games of yore.

I’ve learned how to paint my face, how yo earm my keep, how o clean my kill.

Think we worked against each other more than together in the days of yore. I may have been messier too then.
But I am going to sleep!

Let’s see how well I can type while in the passenger seat.

I wanted to pick this back up now that I’m sober. In addition to the above, we did come to a realization at some point that if we could figure out how to find each other as town and work together, we’d have a strong chance to stomp scum, but that never quite materialized for a few reasons and then we both took breaks soon after I think.

I don’t think it’s too surprising though. I don’t think as masons or as a hydra we were too far off in how we viewed quite a few things? Maybe here and there.

You can talk to me about whatever niggles you have though! If they’re things to talk about though it does amuse me that I’m still tantalus with that ffery town read just out of reach. :p.

Day 1 of Smokefilled, you were paranoid of me all the way up to the traitor in the dethy flipped scum. I don't think our reads outside of each other were hugely different, maybe strengths differed? After that, we were confirmed town and any differences were stuff we could work on knowing the other was discussing in good faith.

Same was true of our hydra with Syr. We shared a role PM and didn't have the cognitive load of trying to figure each other out while comparing notes on other players.

This post is actually a decent example of what bugs me. Elsewhere, you have asked my opinions on stuff here and there, which I like because I feel like that's a good way to figure out if my stances are real or not, but instead of telling me what's bugging you about my play you sort of tease the not-town-yet stuff in a way that doesn't actually look concerned. Maybe it's not a priority because you expect to be able to read Nacho easily once he's back and putting data into the thread again. I think on a baseline level I'm a much easier player to read than Nacho is for people who have played a few games with me, but Nacho probably is an easier read for you than he is for 99.99 of the universe.

In Tenet you were straight up about the initial post of mine that bugged you. And in smoke-filled you expressed your paranoia with a lot more oomph both in the PT and in the game thread until it was made completely moot.

The know that I should be doing my DUE DILIGENCE and read the parts I missed or be pushing something more, but uh I’m just kinda not in the mood to. I don’t think it will affect my view of the game state and I’m kinda bored and don’t really care about a lot of what’s been posted. Perhaps that’s in part due to the fact that I spent the week doing nothing but grading and my brain is spent or to how I’m feeling about mafia and the place I want mafia in my life right now. Funny story, but I logged into the site last week to out from the game only to find a role pm instead. I’m glad I didn’t out now as I’m having fun, but that’s where my head is at with mafia right now.

I’m still trying to figure out what I think about Titus and I’m trying to make sense of how I feel about her read on me. I’m not surprised she’s scum reading me because she’s not that great at reading me even though she’ll say how easy I am to read sometimes. So the early posting and around me makes sense in trying to read me and start maybe town then think scum later is consistent with how past games reads of me have gone. As either alignment actually now that I think about it. But what I find odd is that she earlier defended me that my absences were nai but then basically used that as her scum read. Felt off but don’t know how off it is for Titus. Other than that I haven’t liked a lot of what she’s done, and I don’t like the grousing about it being a town loss due to post restrictions etc; it’s just that she feels fake.

If my understanding of the game state is at all correct then I think at least one of Titus, battle mage, and quiet is scum. (I kinda like cakes getting weirded out that people are too easily putting quiet into their scum reads. He probably doesn’t realize that it was that kind of feeling with regards to Norfolk in popcorn.)

Who's dune trap?

I agree with you on Cakez. I like his take on all the quiet reads.

-----------------

@Bell I feel like part of what you're saying is that a lot of what people are townreading Math for is actually NAI. Point 5 is probably the thing that resonates most as being a scum-marker to me, though misrepping and misunderstanding are very close neighbors.

Is this a fair take on your case? Because if it is, then maybe I'm giving Math a much stronger townread than his play deserves.

[sangres]

Beyond that I’m not really sure what you want from me. I’ve asked the questions I’ve wanted to ask. I have a view of the game I’m somewhat comfortable with, and the things I’d like to settle aren’t going to happen right this minute. I’m just playing the game and I feel good. If your niggles are that I haven’t asked you more questions, we’ll I don’t know what to do with that because I’ve asked what I wanted to and yeah I don’t know.

I realize you’re gonna be in a weirder state maybe, and that’s fine.

Actually I feel better now.

synching with me while not townreading me just felt...off. Directionally we've been coming to similar, though not identical, impressions in our most recent games. This game feels like the sync got tighter, which taken outside the question of your read of me, isn't a huge wtf moment.

I'm not going to belabor that or point out examples from prior games or stuff because my impression that you weren't townreading me was wrong, from what you said earlier today. I mean, you asked me about my niggle, so I explained it, and that part didn't have much to do with our reads synching.

Sorry for a bunch of posts in a row, lumbering around the streets of Chicago so my thoughts are broken

But I don’t understand your post at all ffery, and maybe you misunderstood me. The basic gist of part of that was that it didn’t surprise me that we’d be in sync on something.

I did misunderstand. I thought your tantalus thing was serious!

[sangres]

I'm thinking about switching our vote to Mathblade.

Will do some rereading, and maybe Nacho will show up and talk me out of it.

[sangres]

The only thing its done really is made it slightly harder to read Tammy and KTT.

Are you referring to the post restriction? And if you read me as scum after we claimed IC, I don't think you have a handle on what town me looks like, don't think you'd be able to tell in more posts, and I'm not going to go all scary-face to get you to read me correctly. But if you are referring to the post restriction. The only thing that the post restriction has done is had me put together posts into one that I wouldn't normally bother with. I'd still have not been around much this week because I was busy with work stuff.

~~~

Ffery - I think maybe I understand where you got your original thought? When I mentioned not having you as town to town paean level, it was just a reference of my strength of read. In Tenet, when you made the town paean post, I knew you were town. I got paranoid here and there even after we died when I was somewhat keeping up in case we came back, but I always came back to that post as my tether for me just knowing you were town. So, when I referenced that it just meant that my strength of read was not what it was in Tenet, and I wouldn't want what pushed you to that reaction for me to have that kind of safety in a read.

I just wouldn't bet the game on any of my reads right this moment.

How do you feel about bork?

pedit: that's a total mood. Also don't bet on nacho right this minute. He wanted to "take a nap" a few hours ago because he's got a weird schedule tomorrow and I tried to wake him up from said nap and his response was something like why fight the inevitable or some shit like that. He'll probably do something stupid like wake up at 3 am and totally fuck himself over for work, so maybe you hear from him then.

I had this moment earlier today where I asked myself if there's an unequivocally town post in bork's iso to hold onto and pin down this cloud of a read I have right now, and I felt like maybe there isn't. And then he made a post that was a new thought -- a new question that nobody else had asked and I hadn't thought to ask myself and I thought "there he is! and oh look, he's asking a trajectory^tm question!"

And then Math came in and dumped on it and used it to chain bork and Titus together (with Prism?) and to push the idea of bork and mastina as partners apart.

Like there's not a world where bork just noticed the discrepancy and questioned Mastina.

Anyway, bork still worries me a little. He feels distant, maybe preoccupied.

And yeah, that is a mood. I feel like I've been in too much of a holding pattern, when I should just play onward and sync if and when.

Bell's made some decent points and my read's grown shakier over time, not stronger.

[sangres]

@Dunstrall, Bork. Yeet targets?

I'm waiting on Nacho. TBH.
I am losing convinction on MB scum.

Town block RN is just Sangres, Spiffeh, LLD today. Which isn't good enough based on my experience in Tenet. If I want to win through PoE I need to solve faster tbh.

I'm not waiting on Nacho right now. I'm going through a reread and grabbing posts that strike me and throwing them into our hydra pt. They might wind up in a long-ass post at some point.

Nacho's schedule changed and he's not going to be around until tomorrow afternoon if he's not death on toast from work.

What happened to BM?

Anyway, I hit a KTT post that if nothing else suggests there's no way they're scum with mathblade to me. check my thinking on this?

But for real

I can see where it looks out of place if you're looking for that, but I do think it's a stretch to call it a scum pt post. But I could be biased because I'm still traumatized from last years TM. Math is one of my stronger town reads, and I think he's come from a place of at least trying to solve the game. Might be too over-eager, I've been there where you start seeing things everywhere.

Call it an overreaction then if it bothers you.
I think Math is town-ish actually I just think his behavior is very silly.

See now was that so hard? Isn't it easier to just answer my question instead of making me ask repeatedly? You don't have to answer that one, I'll give you that for free.

PEdit: I'd be comfortable passing it to LLD more than Prism, tbh. But I've played with LLD a ton and I feel generally confident that I can spot her scum game by day two or three. She will probably deny that, but in her heart she knows it's true.

-k

I don't think scum-k reels in town-Math on this particular piece of green cheese. And I don't think scum-k decides to derail scum-math making an attack like this either. Especially given that per mala, he has some concerns about us. Although maybe those concerns cropped up later?

My top tier townreads are {LLD*, Spiffeh, Bell}. I want to hard townread Prism and I probably will again next time I read their ISO. I can't seem to hold on to some of the reads that looked really solid early on. I'm townreading Tammy, too, and if Nacho comes back and townreads her I'll put that read to bed and stick her in top tier.

I need more than three solid townreads.

What are your thoughts on Grey? Cakez?

[sangres]

BM is v/la every weekend.

That's not what I meant. You had 4 in your townblock earlier, including BM. What happened to your read of him?

Also, re Quiet, looking at his post in context again this morning, it isn't as bad as I remembered/thought at the time.

Hi people, only freshly traumatized by a couple of you. It should be fine.

I will not be voting for Prism to receive an artifact like, ever. Too raw. That being said, I reallllyyy don't know about this performative scum narrative; I can absolutely see a world where someone named John Doe has an artifact named John Doe's Hammer, and hands it over to someone to try and modconf themselves as John Doe. If I'm misreping the idea, lmk.

First impressions:
VOTE: Sangres as my first TR, mostly because 151 is towny, I don't think Prism + sangres are scum together both TRing each other, I don't think prism!Scum TRs scum as their first vote, and I don't think town!Prism is likely to be wrong here either.
I don't really know if I find LLD flailing particularly AI? I think that slot will resolve for me fairly rapidly.
(pedit: and oh look, Tammy shares the same opinion. +town points for being on my vibe at exactly the same time I got there)
People piling on Math a bit is interesting. Thoese interactions are the first place I want to do a re-read.
Tammy is towny to me, but someone can tell me if they're real good and none of what they've said is AI.

I feel like I should probably have more thoughts on Spiff, but I don't have any strong feelings at the moment.
Looking forward to hearing more from Bell and BM.

Exited to play! I'm also a fair amount busier at the moment, but I wasn't about to miss a Warehouse 13 game.

In retrospect, I like this post better than I did when I first read it. The logic about scum-Prism townreading a scumbuddy so early and town-Prism probably being right is a decent thought train, regardless of whether it's actually an accurate opinion of scum/town Prism. Given how snowed he'd been by scum-Prism in the Iceland game, I actually kinda like that he's looking at ways to use what he's learned about Prism to sort another slot, though calling my 151 a townpost is a bit rose-tinted.

He's in his first post talking about being busier, but being all-in for the flavor. This makes a little sense of his lack of presence/flake, maybe.

If this is a permanent siteflake I'm very sad about it.

[sangres]

There were no questions directed at KTT, but I'm all ears regarding their thoughts on stuff.

@Bell that last sentence was for you, current thoughts on Grey and Cakez? They're both players I'd like to have stronger opinions about than I currently do.

Rereading the first 25 pages, Dunn entered the game in a way that I want to call "grumpy", and I get the same vibe from his later interaction with me. We have not played together much and I don't know if this mood I'm picking up is really there, if it's typical of his play, or if its a possible alignment marker. I'm not going to meta dive this before deadline. I'm hoping nacho has some meta insight, and if not I'll work on it later.

^^ That's to Bell, but anyone with meta thoughts are welcome to answer.

[sangres]

I was waiting for Nacho, but now that I know he won't be posting I'm okay moving forward with a Mastina elimination.

Nacho will hopefully have at least a few hours before deadline tomorrow assuming the day doesn't end sooner. So, too late, probably to have a massive late-day impact on the game, but time to get our synced thoughts together and into the thread, I hope.

@Mathblade: Can you please, please please make an effort to help us NOT hit 85 pages before Nacho has a chance to post again?

[sangres]

Insert expression of outrage and surprise that Mathblade thinks there's a traitor in this game.

I mean regardless of his alignment, MathBlade ALWAYS thinks there's a traitor in the game.

Like, legitimately, he has like...suggested a traitor in most of his games, and always posits the existence of one in scum PTs even when the setup would provably say there aren't any.

That said it is something I tend to, overall, see more from scum-MB than town-MB tho.

This whole post is a buddy post. My post was very obviously sarcasm. You know I'm aware of the meme in addition because I joked about it in the Cell PT which you were part of and undoubtedly read.

Or maybe I'm just being an unfriendly person.

1692 @Sangres, @Spiffeh. @LLD. Thoughts on this post?

It wasn't obvious sarcasm, though I thought sarcasm was likely. You have a deadpan that I can't always see through. See my wtf in Illicit day 1 when you voted midwaybear.

Anyway, I'm quite willing to move my vote to mastina, but I was really hoping for something more substantial from Titus. :/

--------------------

If we hit 85 pages before the magical Nacho hour I might be making a punitive vote wherever I think it does the most good for day 2.

--------------------

Tammy you're worrying me.

-------------------

I'm going to be afk for an hour or so, but I will check back in before I hit the sack.

-------------------

vote: Mastina

Just doing it.

[sangres]

I really hate to say this but I now think Titus is pretty town. I'm only up through the first 60 posts but Titus's worldview is clear, ex. Dunn hiding behind LLD demotivates her further, this didn't come up only recently but has come up repeatedly. Great progression on Bell with 604, 605, 614. 636 actually is trying to work with Math.

Leaping off of this the entire sequence regarding Math's read on Bell beginning in 636, resulting in a vote on Math in 656 is great. They're legitimately trying to dialogue with Math, not at all setting him up to fail, and immediately gets frustrated when Math shuts down any hope of basic discussion.

Her catching posting was great. Read on sangres is both contrarian and well thought out, had clear evolution beforehand, 1267 is solid statement of concerns. Followup about Grey in 1268 is also good. I ~don't really like~ the vote on me in 1270 if mastina is town but that's a big if and I buy it since Titus hasn't really engaged with my slot before this. Post about SC not following up on the meta was A+++, progression about me/Cakez team was also very clean when the VCA comes in.

Finally, there's just still some tonal things I like, both around sangres/Dunnstral but also around Spiffeh like in 812.

yeah there's setup and progression to the stances in 1267 and 1268. I could see 1267 coming, and more than a few times I've seen that kind of progression come at me from scum but it's probably as often town.

--------------------

@Tammy, I'm thinking about how stressed you were in Smokefilled as votes piled up on Tayl0r. We talked in the neighborhood about what we each stress about as Day 1 wagons coalesce and the deadline looms.

We're there -- and you're not? Is there something different about this deadline? Are my expectations way off? Or maybe it's because there's no certainty about how this day ends yet?

Who do you want to vote?

[sangres]

@Prism, Sir Cakez' received some critique of his scum game in the Among Us large theme post game, and I understand that he applied it in the Booneytoonz game. Long story short, he's always tended to bus too easily. He worked on that in the BoonyToonz game. I'm not firing on all cylinders atm but I don't ~think~ his behavior around his partners was a big factor in what you were comparing from Xeno to here, but maybe I missed it. Here's his booneytoonz ISO. I'll take a closer look at this tomorrow. It seems like something that would be more useful to consider on Day 2, though his day 1 positioning on Noraa in Xeno looked scummy and also highlighted her as a likely partner.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12507107

[sangres]

I'm liking Tammy a whole lot better <3

Am not 100% in agreement, but I just really like her reactions to the data hitting the thread today.

Also like BM's recent posts.

[sangres]

If you're talking about the recent votes on mastina, who specifically are you spooked by on that wagon?

Honestly? Everyone except Bell and Battle Mage because they weren't interested in Titus to begin with:

any of
Sangres 1716
Prism 1725
your 1831

Feel to me like they could possibly be stay-off-my-buddy votes just because none of them have any real "I've changed my mind about Titus" to them, and if mastina flips green there basically has to be scum in there

My vote was artificially stagnant because I really wanted input from Nacho. He scumread Titus at the time of our Dunnstral vote and said he'd move to Titus, but that was a long time ago and there's been a ton of data since then. Not sure if I indicated it, but I got slight townfeels from my short interaction with Titus when she had been run up. I gave up on having a timely sync with Nacho this weekend, and that's when I moved our vote.

I've had a fair bit of antagonistic interaction with Mastina over her Prism case, and I don't think the vote change should AT ALL come as a surprise to you, simply based on that.

[sangres]

I wish this felt like an easy game.

I'm around for the duration, and will post if something moves me. I'm willing to move off mastina if that's what it takes to get an elim, but not feeling another wagon.

Feeling headachy and not particularly talkative.

[sangres]

Will move my vote to probably mastina at some point.

In the middle of something but I am aroundish and will be back later

Ffery what do you like about battles posts?

For cakes his I WILL END YOU feels a bit farcical coming from him which pings but not sure how really alignment indicative it is.

Tone of his posts this morning, mostly.

I don't have much meta with him. Just the Xeno game and he was scum in a game I modded afaicr.

I've gone back and forth on this read, and had him POE scum for a while. This is a read I would have really liked some input from Nacho about.

Also like BM's recent posts.

even Battle Mage's more recent posts make me feel better about him.

Why?

Battle Mage's recent posts have been "nice". He's been acting nice to players, working with them, acting as a mediator, being a team player, calling fights TvT, and generally being moderate: not committing to anything hard, saying preferences and stances but without passion and conviction behind them.

Does any of this jive with your experience of BM as town?

Because it flies in the face of the abrasive BM that I know, while being a perfect fit for the Battle Mage I've seen as scum pull this exact strategy to get some cheap towncred.

He spamposted in Xeno and wound up in a huge useless slapfight with Gamma. And he made a few posts I kinda liked for town, but I never actually formed a read on him and as it happened never needed to.

I would hope that town players, given the page restriction would refrain from spamposting and from useless slapfights, but what do I know?

----------------------------

@Bell have you changed your mind about mastina?

[sangres]

Well, it doesn't fit the flavor. :/

Jinks could look into your eyes and tell if you're lying.

[sangres]

That should be so easy to research, trying to come up with a claim, though.

I dunno.

[sangres]

i don't fucking know anything about this show but from what you're saying sangres it sounds like someone who can look at someone's eyes and tell if they are lying would be able to "detect" things

It came up repeatedly in the first episode where Jinks showed up, and it was at least a throwaway in nearly every episode (if not every). It's iconic of him.

He did show a sort of talent for figuring out where artifacts should be stored in the warehouse after Leena died. Some artifacts don't behave well near each other.


---------------------------------

Also, I hate you all. Nacho's probably not going to make it today, but fuck all these pages.

[sangres]

Oh fuck it, I have it when people dance around shit and we've got enough claims out there.

I'm Mrs. Frederics, an x-shot artifact usage detector.

I've softed this a few places, and this was why my early game focus was on artifacts and rooting out liars.

A part of me thinks we don't work together on the same side, but maybe we do. This claim was probably dumb, but I figure I fit right in now.

Fits flavor.

There's a Mrs. Frederics-in-training character who also has this talent in the series.

I swore I'd save 25 posts for Nacho out of our 125 post "allotment". This is post 100.

Why are we mass-claiming?

[sangres]

vote: Mathblade

Partly a leap of faith with Bell, and partly white-hot rage at the very real likelihood that we run out of fucking posts trying to figure this last minute shit out.



Need to get that out of my system if nothing else.

I'll move as needed to get an elim across the line as long as it doesn't involve voting a strong townread.

[sangres]

AFAIK it's never been a major issue whether there's a trident, and whether bork currently possesses it.

Math does the Jinks as artifact claim make sense to you lore-wise?

[sangres]

I won't be hammering anything before much closer to deadline.

I don't know what to think of bork right now. I'm not leaving this game day with a townread, and that's extremely disturbing.

[sangres]

...much closer to deadline? it's a few hours away. what further info are you expecting to get!?

I'm hoping to get my hydra partner's thoughts into the thread.

Bork, I'm not leaving this game day with that thought unexpressed.

Probably not time nor enough posts left to sort through it and my head hurts too much to try right now. I'll try to make at least one content post about it before the day ends.

[sangres]

Consider my vote to be on Mastina. I'll vote Cakez to prevent no elim. I have concerns about the claim and about both Cakez' and Pooky's play this last 12 or so hours, but I don't think Tammy's claimed ability precludes Cakez' ability existing and being town.

Cakez' claim doesn't fit the flavor in the way that Tammy's and Prism's do, but it's kinda crazy to expect flavor and roles to sync perfectly. Balance figures in.

I'm going to eat something, think about all my life choices, and then put down our vote.

I know I'm being annoying about wanting Nacho's catch-up thoughts in the thread today.

Not terribly sorry I feel that way, though!

[sangres]

I am considering moving to Cakez. I just hate everything about Cakez/Pooky's interactions; there's just nothing natural about them. Though from what i think i know about Pooky he doesn't tend to bus day one so I guess they might not be partnered no matter how fake their interactions are. (Wouldn't bet the bank on the no bussing thing though.) And Pooky's push on cakez feels so much like his push on flavor leaf in tenet. There is something wrong with those interactions. Pooky's push there is one of the reasons I don't want to go there even though Cakez feels so fake himself.

I'm not even very convinced mastina's gonna flip scum some of her stuff felt pretty okay today.

I don't know.

I agree there's something wrong with the interactions. and I agree regarding the similarities to the FL push. The claim gives me pause. And raises my eyebrow.

I'm really troubled that Math hasn't said much about the claim as it relates to flavor -- just jumped right to "why didn't you use it/why don't you use it right now?"

----------------------

@Spiffeh I doubt Nacho is going to make it. It's almost 9 pm his time, and he thought he'd be able to make an appearance during his afternoon. I think his work schedule must have changed.

[sangres]

Can you guys (sangres, Tammy) elaborate on what makes the claim suspect beyond flavor reasons? I thought Cakez's play around the claim was pretty Town and I felt his sass about potentially getting limmed for flavor reasons was really genuine.

I don't think the role clashes with Tammy's claimed role either. If Cakez is scum here he really snowed me and I don't think he's ever done that before.

Also as of last page we have four pages left so we can afford to spend a few more posts before making a final decision:

Mod notes: 81/85 pages used

For me, nothing outside the flavor, and as I said, I'm leery of making purely flavor-based calls on claimed abilities because balance issues come into effect. A straight up lie detector type role might be too strong for the design, for instance.

Which is why I'd rather vote mastina. I agree her posts today are better than a lot of what she posted before, at least for me. Softening a little on Prism helped, but mastina I'm sure knew it would, at least for me. I didn't want reactions to Prism (and to LLD as well, to some extent) to be an axis for my reads to spin on, but that's where I'm at.

[sangres]

I doubt we get much twilight.

vote: mastina

Last time I remember voting mastina she was town. A lot more town than she's been here, fwiw.

[sangres]

Prism, for one brief day, this is the game I've wanted to play with you since Dystopia.

I died happy for that, at least!

bork, I went back through your iso on night 1 and convinced myself you were town. and then I read your farnsworth message and bought it all. I feel like it might have been to town's benefit that I died N1! Or, maybe I would have come back around to scumreading with another day's worth of posts.