Warehouse 13: The Mafia Game (Game Over)

[Spiffeh]

I'm so excited to not care what any of you think about me

[Spiffeh]

Bell are you enjoying the game so far?

[Spiffeh]

Also I would like the artifact because I am undisputedly town

VOTE: Spiffeh

[Spiffeh]

oh gods save me I have a town lean on spiffed already :/

shhhhhh just let it happen

[Spiffeh]

I love the passion MathBlade keep it up

[Spiffeh]

LLD who is the final scum?

So you can say you solved the game before page 5

[Spiffeh]

There are 17 players so I assume there are 4 scum

If you pretend to scum read me for this I'm going to be very upset!

[Spiffeh]

) There is only one anti-town faction in play for this game (Mafia). There are four Mafia-aligned players.

Come on guys

Wow I didn't even remember that

I guess I have to be town now!

[Spiffeh]

Those last two BattleMage posts were not great

[Spiffeh]

I am not shitposting I have already telegraphed to Tammy that I'm town which is a very good use of my time tyvm

Just waiting on the rest of you to stop being dramatic and accept it too!

[Spiffeh]

Pooky I literally saw you posted in this thread and I was like "wow I'm so glad PookyTheMagicalBear is in this game I wonder what amazing content he will provide with his entrance" and this is what I walk into

I feel betrayed

[Spiffeh]

Nah I would have come up with like three fake reads by now if I were scum

[Spiffeh]

Also I thought I was only on strike two, I have one more strike before you're allowed to scum read me

[Spiffeh]

I have some reads

One of them makes me sad

[Spiffeh]

Bell you have some p. bad reads atm

I'm gonna need you to step it up a little bit

[Spiffeh]

Pooky do you think continuing to proclaim that I'm scum every time I post is going to get you townread?

I can tell you rn it's not working

[Spiffeh]

I have identified one (1) scum player so far

[Spiffeh]

Not sure what to think about Prism yet

MathBlade has been transparently town to me from jump and I'm not thrilled with there already seeming to be somewhat of a consensus scum read there

He's clearly not the most charismatic player itg (no offense!) and I feel that's being used to put him in the hot seat already and there is absolutely no scum motivation to start and maintain this back and forth with Prism so early on

[Spiffeh]

Aw Nacho I love you too

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: Prism

I agree we should hammer artifact and move onto the next phase

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: LLD

[Spiffeh]

Hot take: dunnstral is scum again

This is not a hot take, it's a good one.

Three of Dunny's four posts have been low effort nitpicks, and the other was a mechanics question that I didn't understand. 174 specifically doesn't sound like something town says, questioning specific players about their sangres read is one thing but shading everyone town reading them without explanation is useless. It reminds me of Titus vs. Alisae when I caught him for similar shady, nitpicky posting where he'd lurk and post full quote-wall catch ups taking potshots at random shit that never ended up forming into genuine reads or having real progression.

And while I've been scum in my three recently completed games, Dunn has been town in all of them and he it was obvious from his first few posts. That's not the case here.

Maybe I'm calling this out too early and it would have been better to see how he continues to play the game without my interference but I kinda want to try and this is me trying

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Spiffeh]

I agree with Prism that Dunn's recent activity after getting called out doesn't make me feel better.

It feels like he's trying to give the impression that he's unbothered by the pressure, whereas town!Dunnstral would probably recognize the issues with his current play and... do better?

[Spiffeh]

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=82018&user_select[]=30572

Did you mean to link something specific about this game? The link just takes me to the first page of it.

[Spiffeh]

It should be my iso that game, which you referenced but is completely different from what I had in this game - not that I had enough to meta off of antway

I mean yeah it's gonna be a bit different since at the time you'd said like twenty words. The vibe I got was the same, as I explained below, and feel that this characterization is fair after skimming your ISO in Titus vs. Alisae again:

It reminds me of Titus vs. Alisae when I caught him for similar shady, nitpicky posting where he'd lurk and post full quote-wall catch ups taking potshots at random shit that never ended up forming into genuine reads or having real progression.

Additionally, I got people to focus on something other than the MathBlade/Prism saga for a page or two, which should give me an automatic free pass through AT LEAST Day 5. You're all welcome.

As for your recent posts, I don't love them but I don't hate them. Can you elaborate on why you're scum reading me?

[Spiffeh]

SirCakez +

Spiff are responsible for the Dunn wagon

FTFY

[Spiffeh]

seems like scum are pretty happy to vote Dunnstrall, but not Mathblade.

Name names please

[Spiffeh]

Bell here is proper procedure for dismantling wagons you don't like:

-> Identify player(s) that is scummy on said wagon
-> Explain in charismatic detail why they are scummy, be sure to use buzzwords such as "opportunistic" to help drive the point home
-> Vote for them and urge others to do the same

Saying over and over that's it's a bad/scummy wagon without elaboration will accomplish nothing, and only makes me want to keep my vote here just to spite you for doing so

[Spiffeh]

I like BM legit now.

I am souring on Bell fast.

That's funny I feel the exact opposite on both accounts

[Spiffeh]

LLD I take it that my absence from that post means you have accepted that I am town?

[Spiffeh]

GI's two posts were bad

That is all

[Spiffeh]

Has GI's scum team really not let him know that we are in the phase that allows limming now or is he just pretending to not know about it to make us think he's not scum?

Either way I am not fooled

[Spiffeh]

I appreciate all of my friends who followed me onto Dunnstral without hesitation. It really means a lot that I can still get people to do my bidding having not rolled Town in almost a year.

As for Dunny, I am not particularly deterred in my read by his recent posts, but I al wouldn't say my scum read has strengthened since I voted him either. Overall I'd be fine with his lim but would love to explore other options before confidently locking it in.

In other news, I think borkjerfkin could be scum. Can we wagon him too?

VOTE: borkjerfkin

[Spiffeh]

Bell I am like absolutely certain that you're Town here but you are hardcore tunneled on someone who is also transparently Town to me (MathBlade) and I would like you to stop and consider other options.

Remember how much more accurate you got in Tenet when shellyc flipped town and you were able to broaden your scope? Let's fast forward to that right now.

And even if you believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is scum, I can guarantee scum!MathBlade will not endgame this playerlist.

I request that your next fifteen posts have no mention or indication of MathBlade whatsoever. To start, what are your thoughts on borkjerfkin?

[Spiffeh]

spiff how do you feel about this teamsolve:

Titus/Mathblade/Cakeboi/Borky

Uh it should be pretty clear from my post directly above this one that that is not a team solve I would agree with.

Preflip associatives are bad anyway.

[Spiffeh]

There are probably like 7-8 people I'd prefer to lim over Titus at this point. Her interactions with MathBlade look really town to me.

For those scum reading her, can you explain why?

[Spiffeh]

I'm nowhere near 100% on bork being town, but I liked his "you don't have to worry about me" post, and kinda townread it.

I think if bork's scum again it will show pretty quickly because he hates being scum and is no doubt still exhausted from drawing 2 scum roles in a row.

I admit the "you don't have to worry about me" part of that post was what most I townread him for from his ISO

However, that is overshadowed by two things:
1. His posts this game just seem overly...polished/manufactured? 694 is one of the posts that gave me this impression. Idk how to put it but I just get the vibe he's concerned with how he comes across here where I didn't at all feel that way in Tenet.
2. More concerning, I didn't like his interaction with you. The question about your read on LLD before her mason claim is pretty useless, as LLD has already claimed mason and is confirmed town assuming that claim is true. What is he looking for from you in terms getting a read when asking that? And then mentioning Tenet and how you both were fooled by LLD felt off to me too. I think scum!bork recognizes part of his win condition is getting town!sangres on his side and I view this interaction more as him buddying you than genuinely trying to get a read on you.

I can foresee this Day turning into the MathBlade/Titus/Dunnstral show and I'd prefer to shine some light on and not write off some of the players that are more likely to escape radars.

[Spiffeh]

When I stopped rolling scum

Can you say you've done the same here?

[Spiffeh]

shhhh LLD just let my response be cool

[Spiffeh]

Nacho's Dunn-scumread is the stronger one.

I'd love if Nacho could go into detail about what he's seeing in Dunnstral.

Because I saw some stuff early on but Dunn's newer stuff makes me feel no type of way and I wouldn't say I've become more confident in him flipping scum as the Day has progressed.

[Spiffeh]

I will be incredibly sad if you are scum, because you succinctly stated my feelings about Dunn.

At the time I expressed my thoughts on Dunn he only had four posts and has posted a lot since, do you have any thoughts on his more recent posts?

Also idk the point of you mentioning that you'll be sad if I'm scum is to the answer of that question?

[Spiffeh]

Spiffeh's push on me seems disingenuous primary in that it came right after GreyICE threw shade on me in a few posts above rather than seemingly organically against anything I actually posted

I feel like the reason I asked about LLD is obvious and explained in the post and going "durr LLD claimed mason of course they think she's town why would you harp on that" seems utterly determined to miss the intent I had: trying to gauge ffery's demeanor on LLD prior to that

Ok now I'm two for two on players vocally suspect coming back and saying my push was scummy. Nice.

I do appreciate that you bothered to explain why you felt this way unlike Dunnstral who just calls me scummy, votes me, and doesn't elaborate.

I didn't realize GreyICE's " " was shade on you until I went back to check what the hell you were talking about, nor would I have really cared if I knew about his shade when writing my post. Do you think I'm unable to create my own pushes and I was just waiting for an opportunity to go after you? Genuine question, what makes my push 'disingenuous' in your eyes rather than just town!me being wrong about you?

The LLD question seemed like a throwaway question to capitalize on the chance to buddy ffery. I think there are tons of other more useful things/players you could have engaged her about to get a read on her, but the way you parleyed that into reminiscing about how you both were fooled by LLD in the past seemed like you were prioritizing getting on her good side over actually caring about her thoughts on LLD.

I recognize that might look like I'm forcing something that might not be there since I don't know your mafia history/relationship with ffery, but that's how I saw it from the outside looking in.

While I'm not happy that your response is to call me disingenuous, I do feel like the attitude in your more recent posts feels a lot less manufactured and its conceivable that you could feel this way about me if you're town and I came at you for reasons you don't feel are that credible.

How do you feel about GreyICE?

[Spiffeh]

Also I am probably soon going to reach my threshold on the number of players allowed to scum read me without punishment. Objectively this is the most obviously town I have been in a game in a year or two at least and I will no longer be tolerating scum reads on me at this time.

Thank you all for your concern in this matter.

[Spiffeh]

There's a lot of mildly suspicious slots that REALLY don't want to go mathblade, or won't discuss mathblade, but are a-okay going titus, so that means we go mathblade today

Can you give me some players who fit this criteria?

[Spiffeh]

Ok, can you pick your two largest scum reads on that list and explain why you think they're scum jumping in to save MathBlade rather than town who just finds you to be scummier than MathBlade?

[Spiffeh]

Because where I'm coming from, in the event that MathBlade is scum (which I highly highly doubt atm), it's a little hard to believe that any scum would fight for him at this point when he's dug himself a huge hole?

I would expect scum to bus him into the ground here instead of risk themselves trying to save him. And I think you're smart enough to be able to see that too.

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Spiffeh]

Do you have any scum reads outside of those you listed avoiding MathBlade above?

Or is everyone you're suspicious of currently MathBlade or deciding to push somewhere other than MathBlade?

[Spiffeh]

We can talk about why Mathblade is scum if you want.

I'd love to.

I think he's obviously town.

So assume you're wrong about me and convince me why I'm wrong about MathBlade. Or point me to a post where you've done this.

[Spiffeh]

The only way I'm getting eliminated today is if LLD thinks that is a good idea.

You are severely overestimating the pull LLD has in this playerlist

[Spiffeh]

Sure I can Bell.

My content hasn't been monopolized by MathBlade. Yours, before my request, had.

I make the rules here.

[Spiffeh]

I am uninspired now Spiffeh.
You're uninspiring me.

My intention was to inspire you to scumhunt elsewhere, not uninspire you.

If it makes you feel better, read closely and you'll see that my recent mentions of MathBlade were used as a tool to engage with Dunnstral, not really meant to defend MathBlade himself.

Anyway, I feel like I've posted enough today and want to respect the deadline/page count so I'm forcing myself to stay away til tomorrow. I'm extremely curious as to what Tammy thinks of Dunnstral and GreyICE and her general thoughts on the game. I think she said she'd be back tonight so hopefully I'll have some phenomenal Tammy content upon my return.

[Spiffeh]

Tammy and sangres will not be dying tonight.

This is not a crumb (I don't do that), it is a fact.

Carry on.

[Spiffeh]

I'm catching up now but here's a real hot take: The star-crossed siblings MathBlade and Titus are both Town and will be mislimmed this game despite my efforts.

[Spiffeh]

Still in the middle of my catchup but feeling solid with my Dunnstral vote.

The way he's approaching his extended engagements, particularly with sangres: not really acknowledging or caring where ffery is coming from when she's gone above and beyond to explain her issues with him, and acting like he has an answer for everything while she's the one in the wrong really bothers me.

In Tenet, town!Dunnstral seeked out hard town reads Deacon Blues and Dandelion Wine (who ended up being scum, but irrelevant) who he discussed EVERYTHING with, to the point that their neighborhood PT almost reached 50 pages by the end of the game. He constantly bounced ideas off of them in the neighborhood; I literally got to-the-minute play-by-plays in the scum Discord from Cabd about Dunnstral's latest theories and reads. He was always churning them out because he had a bloc he felt confident in, and obviously valued their opinions.

Where in his ISO does Dunn exhibit this desire to identify and mind meld with his town reads? I can't find anything. He lists LLD, Prism, and Bell as town reads. He has not engaged with ANY OF THEM on reads one time. Bell, one of Dunn's listed town reads, has me as his highest townread, while Dunn himself has me as one of his strongest scum reads. There's been no initiative on Dunn's end to convince Bell he's wrong, or try to engage with Bell about what he sees. Because he doesn't care about finding scum.

90% of his posts are reactionary, whether it be in response to MathBlade, ffery, myself, borkjerfkin. This isn't bad on its own, but these interactions offer no visible evaluation or desire to see where the other player is coming from, he's just getting into extended back and forths to inflate his post count and seem like he's contributing when he's not.

Everything listed above is so unlike the town!Dunnstral I have seen. He is not town here.

[Spiffeh]

Maybe, if any of his town play had shined through like once at all in this game, I would buy that.

Alas.

[Spiffeh]

I wonder if this is the game where Battle Mage and I are town together

eh maybe

i've changed my mind on Math. Math-town tends to have a bit more focus (even if not always in the right direction). His approach today feels less discerning like "elim anybody but me". Survival first.

VOTE: mathblade

What is your read on Dunnstral currently?

[Spiffeh]

I'm catching up now but here's a real hot take: The star-crossed siblings MathBlade and Titus are both Town and will be mislimmed this game despite my efforts.

Gonna walk this back a little and note that Prism, Tammy, and a few others have pointed some stuff out that makes me want to reconsider Titus. Still currently townreading her and don't want her limmed, but I probably shouldn't write her off because I want to be contrarian.

[Spiffeh]

Mala's recent posts make me feel much better about Kitty Trauma Team.

After Dunn I'd probably look for scum in {mastina, quiet, GreyICE, BattleMage}. Maybe Titus if she takes a nosedive when I get around to ISOing her. Maybe Cakez when I start paying attention to him.

I'd like to dedicate the last part of this post to expressing my absolute need for Dunnstral to be the lim today. This is the most confident I've been in a scum read in a long time, which obviously means nothing to most of you, but I wouldn't say this lightly. The last time I was this confident in a read was when...I caught and limmed him in Titus vs. Alisae a year ago. (To be fair I think that's my most recently completed Town game but it sounds cool)

Knowing myself, I will continue to tunnel him as my strongest scum read until he's limmed or some hardcore evidence comes to light that points to the contrary. I'm afraid that the possibility of his lim is slipping away with ffery starting to lean town and people moving their votes elsewhere. It pains me that people are ignoring him, (as much as he'd probably beg to differ) so if you haven't paid much attention to Dunnstral please ISO him and provide your thoughts.

Or just sheep me and lock your vote on him for the remainder of the Day.

[Spiffeh]

I never actually read A50's posts so it's not really comparable

[Spiffeh]

And think of it this way, if Dunn ends up being a mislim (doubt), you get to blame it all on me and call me bad.

It's a win/win.

[Spiffeh]

I would rethink Spiffeh

Stopped reading and disregarded the rest of this post.

[Spiffeh]

That was kinda mean sry

I just think I should be obviously Town to anyone who's seen my last three scum games firsthand like YOU have.

[Spiffeh]

Lol it is too bad then

That's what I get for being a jerk

[Spiffeh]

Yeah Tammy, my goal today is to catch up today/tomorrow and talk about non-Dunnstral things.

Dunn is still my desired lim but no one seems to care that much and it's not helpful to keep screaming into the void.

I'll be paying special attention to Titus when I catch up as I had mixed feelings about her and she seems to be the only counter wagon to obvtown MathBlade at this point.

[Spiffeh]

Cakez that was such a great post until the very end, I agree with the Titus point specifically.

You really fucked it up with your last statement though

[Spiffeh]

1304 is the towniest post in the game, from anyone. The fact that MathBlade is a contender to be limmed today is a travesty.

[Spiffeh]

Uh I kinda doubt that

[Spiffeh]

I am extremely conflicted on Titus (hope you feel better soon btw, take care of yourself first).

I think her early posts addressing MathBlade directly seemed Town. Even mentioning policy limming didn't bother me, I perceived it as her trying to get Mathblade's head out of his ass. I also think Titus' early interactions with LLD lean way more Town than Scum. I imagine scum!Titus, especially after seeing the mason claim, wouldn't proceed to directly piss LLD off by calling out her 'tantrums' and calling her play shit, especially since LLD already had Titus as a scum read at the time. Titus holds LLD in high regard and realizes how much influence mason!LLD holds. Insulting her only jeopardizes her position even further, and I think Titus is smart enough to know that.

I also thought 1347 felt genuinely defeatist (unlike her earlier post with the VT claim) in a way that wasn't manipulative.

However, I'm concerned that Titus' treatment of Mathblade hasn't evolved whatsoever, especially since I feel Mathblade has moved on and has established some thoughts that aren't motivated by odd interpretations of flavor. Writing off Mathblade's latest posts as nonsense when I feel he's made a drastic improvement feels off to me.

And to make this about me again, I'm turned off by the fact that Titus hasn't tried to engage my Dunnstral read that much? I caught Dunn dead to rights in

Titus

vs. Alisae, where Titus handpicked me as a mason and saw it firsthand, I had to force her to publicly approve the lim from the mason PT to push it through before deadline. She's mentioned and engaged with Dunn a few times but a large amount of her focus has been on Mathblade over him, and even though she was on his wagon initially she has stated she was on it for the sake of getting reads on people and hasn't given a stance since. I believe she's called me locktown here, so I feel like she would give Dunn more attention given her read on me here and knowledge of how I've caught Dunn in the past.

I'm afraid this might be an unfair expectation since the game was a year ago and I assume everyone is always hanging on my every word, but it's still nagging at the back of my head.

Overall, I am still aggressively unsure about Titus, as I was writing this post I wanted to give a "gun-to-my-head" read here but I don't even want to commit to that. I know she said she'd be back sometime this weekend, assuming she feels better, so hopefully that will be enlightening.

[Spiffeh]

Town: {Bell, sangres, Tammy, Mathblade, Kitty Trauma Team}
Townlean: {SirCakez, borkjerfkin, Prism, LLD*}
Null: {Pooky, mastina, Titus, GreyICE}
Scumlean: {quiet, Battle Mage}
Scum: {Dunnstral}

*If LLD is mason, she's obviously confirmed town. This is where she is in the reads list if she's lying about the mason claim. Because apparently that's a thing.

Random thoughts:
I made this reads list a little top heavy; I'm open to reevaluating my Town reads down the line but I feel good about a lot of people and I wanted my reads list to reflect that. If I were being conservative I'd probably put KTT in Townlean and bork, Prism, and LLD in null.

To elaborate a little bit on the Mathblade read, I felt from the beginning that there's no reason for Mathblade to thrust himself into the limelight during the Prism Flavor Saga (which is a good title for a fantasy book series). When met with a ton of pressure after his flavor arguments, and declared the lim for the Day by the claimed mason, he doesn't back down, which tells me he's anything BUT survivalistic as a lot of people are trying to characterize him (this is probably the first place I'm going to look for scum in the event Mathblade is mislimmed, btw). I find myself agreeing with a lot of his later posts, such as his reach out to KTT and SirCakez as TvT (although he seems to be back on the Cakez is scum train?), and his recent exchanges with Titus always leave me questioning Titus and completely understanding where Mathblade is coming from. I already cited 1304 as a the towniest post in the game and I stand by that an hour and a half later.

KTT wins most improved: From humble beginnings as an early scum lean, they have catapulted themselves to one of the top spots in my town pool thanks to both heads' recent posting.

Cakez feels natural and isn't trying too hard to be a badass so he's probably Town.

I almost put GreyICE in the scum lean category, I didn't like his first several posts where he emphasized how he didn't care about the Morning phase, and I don't like how the majority of his content is wrapped up in picking apart mastina's walls. These interactions with mastina don't really fit with the rest of his play style this game. Like cool we can all find some shit wrong with mastina's posts in every game she plays, regardless of her alignment. I felt, and still kinda feel, that getting into a back and forth with mastina of all people would be easy for scum to do because it makes a big show of "scumhunting" when it doesn't really accomplish anything. But then I remembered his first post where he immediately checks mastina's ISO for a scum read, so there is precedence for his focus on mastina. And I seem to recall GreyICE pretending to give a shit every time I've seen him as scum, and his early posts don't really point to that. So all of this cancels out into a null read, congrats. Be more readable pls

I hated Battle Mage's vote on Mathblade, he had a previously stated town read on him and his justification for the 180 in the read was that Mathblade was being survivalistic which I already explained is like the exact opposite way I would characterize Math's behavior. He also had a post that rubbed me the wrong way about SirCakez having a great scum game, which to me seemed to fuel the fire of the ongoing Cakez paranoia at the time without really contributing his thoughts on Cakez in a meaningful way? Felt like scum taking a potshot from the sidelines. And while I was Scum in both Xenoblade and Pooky vs. FL (I sound like a broken record) I thought Battle Mage was super obviously Town in both those games and I don't get those vibes here. But I also didn't give a fuck about reading him in those games so take that with a grain of salt.

[Spiffeh]

Sorry if that wall is incoherent, I'm kinda sick of staring at a computer screen and stopped proofreading halfway through.

The thoughts I provided above were explanations I felt were relevant off the top of my head. Please ask questions for those I didn't touch on or engage me on any/all of this so I don't go crazy in my own head.

[Spiffeh]

Can we not hammer until Nacho gets to post this weekend? I would appreciate his input.

That slot isn’t dying tonight anyway but I need to hear from him before Day’s end.

[Spiffeh]

Tammy and Prism

If you decided this instant who the lim was, out of everyone itg

Who would you pick

[Spiffeh]

Prism, can you elaborate on your quiet scum read?

I'm a little tipsy so I may have missed it, you can quote me the post where you explain if you have already.

[Spiffeh]

Is it possible quiet siteflaked?

[Spiffeh]

Tammy what are your thoughts on Battle Mage?

[Spiffeh]

Tbh at this point I would flash wagon Battle Mage or quiet and wouldn't feel bad about it

I am so conflicted on Titus that I'm kinda upset she's the likely lim today, but Mathblade is so obviously town that I'd lim 80% of the playerlist over him rn

[Spiffeh]

Math are you still pretty confident in Titus being scum here?

[Spiffeh]

Hi I would like to say I love literally everyone in this playerlist and hope they are doing well

I have never been more excited with a playerlist on this website than I am with this one, and am glad to be playing with all of you <3

I hope everyone that is scum gets limmed tho

[Spiffeh]

I have extra love for you GreyICE

Even if you are scum this game

Ok I'm done drunkposting let's use these last pages wisely bye

[Spiffeh]

Hi I need to catch up but we need to make sure we hammer before deadline

[Spiffeh]

Also anyone that called my post saying I loved everyone scummy gets +scum points

[Spiffeh]

Uh sorry I am too tired to catch up rn, will do so tomorrow morning and should be around most of the Day to get a hammer if necessary

Less than 24 hours to til deadline FYI

[Spiffeh]

I'll probably be choosing between mastina and Titus today

Unless SirCakez really shits the bed in his posts the last ten pages I don't really want to go there today

[Spiffeh]

I had a pretty elaborate post on Titus in 1402. Which is still where I stand because I'm just now beginning to read the last 10-15 pages.

[Spiffeh]

So I guess we're not getting a quiet replacement today? Lol

I completely forgot about him.

[Spiffeh]

Is it possible quiet siteflaked?

So I wasn't exactly sober when I said this, but to elaborate, I brought this up because I felt ffery's point about quiet being super carefree and engaging in real time as Town in the recently completed newbie was a far cry from his content in this game was compelling. I agree that making the visible shift in play style from that game to this one could indicate that he's scum here. However, I would feel way less confident on this point in the event that quiet site flaked.

And people have said that quiet isn't in any other games or active on the site, meaning he could have indeed site flaked, so I don't really think this tell is that reliable anymore.

[Spiffeh]

I'm kinda caught up, unfortunately I heavily skimmed posts from MathBlade, Bell, Tammy, sangres, etc. because I already know where I stand with them today. I have less time/patience for this game than I thought I would so I plan to reread their posts from the last fifteen pages during the Night phase.

I agree with a lot of what Prism said about Cakez' play style difference between this game and Xenoblade, and found his recent posts to be not awful so I'm sticking with my town lean on him.

When deciding between mastina and Titus, I can say that I have seen several glimmers of town!Titus whereas mastina has basically been a blank slate since the beginning of the game and has remained that way throughout.

I think mastina's Prism flavor case is trash but I don't think it is necessarily alignment indicative for her. I thought her avoidance of the thread early on could have been scum indicative as I have only seen inactive mastina be scum, but I thought her transition to a more consistent (albeit less than I would like) activity was encouraging. It scares me to say that it's a possibility that all three viable wagons could be Town here.

However, the fact that I can point to things I townread from Titus makes me want mastina limmed over her. I do understand why several players want Titus limmed because of her defeatist attitude, so all I can say is that if Titus lives today I hope she is able to reset and pick it up on Day 2.

I also like the wagon-comp of mastina better than the others? Three town reads in sangres, Bell, and Prism, and even Battle Mage's more recent posts make me feel better about him.

I really just want Nacho to swoop in and save the Day with a five star case on some obvscum that none of us are seeing but I shouldn't hold out hope for that.

VOTE: mastina

[Spiffeh]

If I were to redo my reads list I would put borkjerfkin in null, I may have overcorrected a bit when he reacted well to my initial pressure on him. I'm sensing a lack of urgency from his recent posts? Like he doesn't really care? We're so close to deadline and I feel like as town he'd notice how divided the wagons are and be more active in gathering players like ffery and Tammy and trying to lockdown the best lim for today, but he's kinda just going with the flow.

Again, could just be me having unfair expectations, but I feel like there's something missing here that was present in Tenet and I can't put my finger on it.

@bork I know you are scum reading Titus but where do you stand with mastina and SirCakez at this point?

@ffery You said earlier you were a little worried about bork, can you elaborate on those feelings?

[Spiffeh]

I am incredibly disappointed that Dunnstral has basically been ignored ever since I stopped talking about him. I gave him space and he has done jack shit with it. Like I said about bork above, I feel like he's just going through the motions now that the pressure is off of him. I see no real motivation to get this lim right, and while his indifference could stem from the fact that he's scum reading both Titus and Cakez, his other reads have been just as stagnant so I highly doubt that's the case.

Like Dunn has had me as one of his most confident scum reads ever since the start of the Afternoon and despite me being at nearly the top of EVERYONE ELSE's reads list he has not done one thing to reconcile his own read OR convince anyone else that they're wrong about me.

Regardless of today's outcome Dunnstral needs more attention tomorrow.

[Spiffeh]

but i'm more spooked by the last minute shift here than anything else because titus is just sitting there, mastina is MIA, and yet there's momentum

If you're talking about the recent votes on mastina, who specifically are you spooked by on that wagon?

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: Dunnstral

I'll be around to condense elsewhere but can we do this?

[Spiffeh]

If I was queen, I would flashwagon Dunn but that's a long shot. Cakez is the next best thing. I also disagree with the scummy people want Cakez dead (minus Dunn) but ine busser is to be expected.

Titus, Dunnstral has just become a viable wagon.

It's time for you to get your revenge on those that have persecuted you all this time.

It's time.

[Spiffeh]

We're not killing dunnstral today lol

If this means what I think it means then I will cry.

[Spiffeh]

Out of those three I would want Titus.

I'm almost at the point where I think all of Mathblade, Titus, mastina, and SirCakez are Town.

But I really hope not.

[Spiffeh]

I am just at a loss at this point.

Even mastina's recent content looks Town to me.

I have no opinion about the claim and it does not affect my Cakez read, I am still town leaning him by play.

I might just throw away all my reads and start fresh tomorrow, I am so NOT on the same page as a lot of people that are probably Town and I am starting to think it's more of a me problem then a them problem.

Again, will be on for deadline to push a lim through.

I do think it's CONVENIENT of Pooky to actually start contributing now that we are close to our deadline/page count limit.

[Spiffeh]

We are not mass claiming.

[Spiffeh]

I am here.

Would prefer to vote mastina over SirCakez but not confident either will flip scum at this point.

I will be available to hammer either way.

[Spiffeh]

sangres we have all the power

Everyone is at our mercy

I think we have like four pages left still? Do we think it's likely Nacho will be able to contribute before we have to hammer? Deadline's a little over an hour I believe.

[Spiffeh]

Can you guys (sangres, Tammy) elaborate on what makes the claim suspect beyond flavor reasons? I thought Cakez's play around the claim was pretty Town and I felt his sass about potentially getting limmed for flavor reasons was really genuine.

I don't think the role clashes with Tammy's claimed role either. If Cakez is scum here he really snowed me and I don't think he's ever done that before.

Also as of last page we have four pages left so we can afford to spend a few more posts before making a final decision:

Mod notes: 81/85 pages used

[Spiffeh]

Gonna vote for mastina in like five minutes.

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: mastina

Good luck fam

[Spiffeh]

Hey Dunnstral are you going to justify your bullshit scumread on me today?

[Spiffeh]

Hi LLD and Prism I think you are both Town at this moment, let's try to work together and pressure scum today instead of argue amongst ourselves?

Dunn, borkjerfkin, DGB, Titus? are where I want to look currently

Pooky also looks ATROCIOUS with mastina flipping scum

Like actually so bad

I think Cakez is a decent recipient for the artifact. He's probably town but unlikely to be a popular NK

I don't mind LLD getting it either.

Sad about both night kills ;_;

[Spiffeh]

I think sangres not leaving Day 1 with a townread on bork is alarming something we need to significantly explore today.

[Spiffeh]

@Mod V/LA til Monday 3/8

[Spiffeh]

Pooky also looks ATROCIOUS with mastina flipping scum

are you on crack or something

For me, it was the fact that you started gunning hardcore for the counter wagon to flipped scum at the VERY END of the Day when it was up in the air between SirCakez and mastina. A la Flavor Leaf in Tenet, where you were scum.

I'll check back to confirm that this characterization of events is correct, but even before we had the mastina scum flip I thought it looked gross.

[Spiffeh]

Titus and Dunn Tmi'd by Mastina. Mastina had the right solution in front of her because Titus was town.
She weak defended you on purpose and tried to cover it up as the dunnstrall wagon being weak.

I like this, can you point out the posts in mastina's ISO that make you feel this way?

I get the Dunn one but from my recollection her defense of Titus was odd because at one point the vote was between them so mastina defending town!Titus there was the opposite of survivalistic and I remember thinking to myself it could've have been a scum/scum ploy to distance when the other flipped scum?

I could be overthinking it...

[Spiffeh]

I think sangres not leaving Day 1 with a townread on bork is alarming something we need to significantly explore today.

the way you are phrasing this seems weirdly sensationalist to me. lots of people get weird on people for lots of reasons, esp early game. pretty sure ffery said something similar about tammy as well but you don't seem the least bit concerned about that.

I think it's pretty clear why I'm singling you at, as I had (and still have) a strong townread on Tammy, but I was really souring on you towards the end of the Day. Sangres' opinion on you mirrors mine which is why I want to put focus on that today.

[Spiffeh]

Titus, can you tell me who your 2-3 strongest scum reads are and why?

You're devoting most of your posts to telling MathBlade why he's wrong, but you actively think he's Town. I'm concerned that you're doing this instead of pushing scum or visibly trying to get reads on others.

[Spiffeh]

because my solve right now looks like Dgb, cakez, and borkjerfkin

We are on the same page regarding bork and DGB. I want one of them dead today, preferably bork.

Cakez I still think is Town and I believe you are lending too much credence to his ability target when I think his Day play beyond that is incredibly Town, especially being the counter wagon to flipped scum mastina yesterday.

[Spiffeh]

I am not here for the SirCakez vs. Pooky and Mathblade vs. Titus 1v1's. I would not be surprised if all four are Town and that is currently where I'm leaning. I've already explained my reasons for townreading Cakez and Mathblade and nothing has really changed. Pooky and Titus are a little more iffy but not even close to where I want to lim today.

I will provide the caveat that I am exhausted defending Mathblade as he continues to bury himself and waste valuable posts addressing every post against him and if it takes his mislim to get people like Bell/LLD/GI to focus elsewhere than I'll let it happen, under the condition that bork/DGB get a lot of attention and pressure today. I'll still probably complain about it as it happens though. Mathblade, take Pooky's advice and condense your posts, please be less reactionary. I think you have some good points I end up agreeing with (Titus/mastina scum buddy pair based on their play yesterday is also something I've considered) but a lot of your good-posting gets lost in the shuffle when you get in back-and-forths with people and eyes just start to glaze over.

Pooky was not at all readable to me yesterday, the only thing I felt any type of way about was his late hard push against SirCakez when his counter wagon ended up flipping scum. It was bad and reminded me of Tenet where he was scum and hard pushed the Flavor Leaf mislim to get the Day to end early.

However, I feel that Pooky's posts regarding Cakez today have a genuine emotion and conviction that was lacking in his pushes as scum in Tenet. In Tenet he recognized that he had some pull with the playerlist and used that to his advantage by "RARA"-ing his way to a mislim, he basically trolled his way to a hammer on Flavor Leaf. Here, he seems like like he believes in what he's pushing (2371 is an example of a post that makes me feel this way). I also don't think his reach out to Mathblade to cut down on posting is something Pooky bothers to do as scum and I that post felt really good tonally.

Titus I still go back and forth on but I really liked her transition to wagon analysis with her recent post about Bell/bork possibly being bus votes on mastina, and am starting to buy that her focus on Mathblade is because she is extremely frustrated with him rather than bashing him to protect herself from providing content.

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: borkjerfkin (willing to vote DGB too as that might be more attainable)

If I were to redo my reads list I would put borkjerfkin in null, I may have overcorrected a bit when he reacted well to my initial pressure on him. I'm sensing a lack of urgency from his recent posts? Like he doesn't really care? We're so close to deadline and I feel like as town he'd notice how divided the wagons are and be more active in gathering players like ffery and Tammy and trying to lockdown the best lim for today, but he's kinda just going with the flow.

Again, could just be me having unfair expectations, but I feel like there's something missing here that was present in Tenet and I can't put my finger on it.

This still applies. I still feel he phoned it in as the Day was wrapping up and feel he would try to work with town reads (especially ffery) to secure a good lim and he was kinda just around, halfheartedly pushing Titus until swapping his vote to mastina at the end of the Day.

Of the final lim wagon on mastina I think his vote is the most likely bus vote. He mentions being spooked by the sudden votes on mastina here and lists myself, Prism, and sangres as the votes that scared him here, which is almost unbelievable to me coming from town!bork. It would be a different story if bork had continued to vocalize his paranoia and persisted with this train of thought for the rest of the Day, or attempted to engage with myself, Prism, or sangres about our votes on mastina, but this is the last time he mentions mastina or the three of us until he naked votes mastina at the end of the Day.

I understand that we were condensing on viable wagons because the Day was over in a matter of hours, but the fact that he votes mastina without addressing his earlier paranoia reads to me like he recognized calling us out for the mastina votes was a mistake as her lim was becoming more likely and tried to brush it under the rug by being on the inevitable scum flip.

I completely agree with Tammy about his response to me here. As I've already said, it should be clear based on my stances at the end of the Day why I am singling him out over Tammy, but instead he tries to discredit my suspicion by deflecting onto Tammy.

@bork, who do you want limmed today and why? On top of everything I've stated above, I feel a lot of your posts today are surface level and I have no idea where your head is at.

[Spiffeh]

DGB's entrance was not good. I don't mind the Mathblade townread but I highly doubt it chooses Mathblade over like anyone else on this playerlist to attach itself to and sheep. Quiet was a scum lean based a lot on ffery/Prism's characterization of his Town play in the Newbie game, and DGB's current play does not make me feel better about that slot.

And since people seem to want to speculate about the night kills, I will throw in my two cents:
- The sangres night kill doesn't really surprise me or mean anything to me, probably done because ffery was obvtown and to prevent town!Nacho from coming into the game with pretty much a clean slate (although it's not lost on me that ffery left the Day not townreading bork and devoting a lot of time to reading quiet with a mostly negative result).
- The Kitty night kill is a little more out of left field for me. I feel there were a lot of other obvtown players that would make more sense as night kills. This is pure speculation and should be taken with a grain of salt, but my theory is that the artifact scum chose Night 0 had a killing ability. Kuribo and DGB have a significant game history and I think kuribo has close to a 100% read rate on DGB, so I think the scum team recognized this when DGB replaced in and killed Kitty to protect DGB.

After bork and DGB, Dunn is still on my radar and not at all a town read but I thought his entrance today was decent. LLD was a huge reason why he escaped death yesterday and I don't think he'd jeopardize that as scum by going after her for wanting the artifact. Battle Mage, GreyICE are eh for me but I'm not really actively scum reading them anymore. And Titus I have been wishy-washy on but ultimately think she's Town.

I should probably work now.

[Spiffeh]

I have my computer coming in today or tomorrow so I likely will be afk a bit but please please narrow focus in Cakez/Titus/Dunn. If you think Titus is misguided town please vote in Cakez or Dunn. If you think all the Cakez wagon is town then please explain why with your argument for where we should go.

Hi, I appreciate your post addressing your concerns, but this is exactly what I DON'T want to do. I've explained that I am townreading Cakez and kinda Titus and want to move the discussion to scum reads that I am more confident about and aren't really on most radars.

Dunn is someone I'm still not happy with, but feel he has enough attention where he probably won't endgame if he is scum. Bork and DGB are players who I am scum reading and have potential to go far if their detractors are killed off (see my nk speculation above), so I think focusing on them is the best use of my time.

Also @Cakez you don't have to qualify every post of yours with "idk about Spiffy" when you've agreed with me on like every push I've made this game.

Every post over like 250 words is probably something I don't bother to write as scum. I promise. Start to accept it and knock off your paranoia, it's starting to irritate me.

[Spiffeh]

That leaves the last slot, which is likely on mastina. Where is the catch though? If Cakez is town, like I suspect, then it would likely be somewhat towards the front, preventing a Cakez swing. If Cakez is scum, then the vote is towards the back end. Of course either way could be in the middle, which is why I focused there.

What are your thoughts on bork? Are you willing to vote there today?

[Spiffeh]

Prism, I really appreciated your posts on the previous page, particularly the Titus townish case. My issues with Dunn from yesterday still remain the same, so you can ISO me for those. I admit his early spat with LLD felt decent to me mentioned, but he hasn't really done enough to change my mind beyond that. I think I've put enough pressure on Dunn to the point where he probably isn't going to be overlooked moving forward which is why I want to focus on bork/DGB today. If a Dunn wagon crops up and bork/DGB can't get enough support I would happily join it.

[Spiffeh]

Lol guys Dunnstral is still pretending to have a scumread on me today

That’s cute

[Spiffeh]

spiffeh why are u obsessed with the people scumreading you?

First of all, I think you know I'm a self-obsessed player so I don't know why this is all that surprising to you. I find it easiest to get reads on people that have significant experience with me by analyzing how they handle me throughout the game, as long as I don't activate tunnel-mode on them which is why I've decided to pressure people other than Dunn today.

But I'm obsessed with Dunnstral specifically calling me scum because it's supposedly a read he's held since the very beginning of the game but has yet to justify it when I've directly asked him to, beyond calling things I do "bad"? He doesn't seem to give a shit that no one agrees with him, and he hasn't ever voted me or tried to push me in a meaningful way. On top of this, he has been in each of my previous three games, all of which I've rolled scum, so I find it pretty unbelievable for him to have such a strong scum read on me here because my play here is DRASTICALLY different from my play in those games.

Take Bell, for instance, who was also present for all three of my recent scum games. He was able to identify almost immediately that I am Town here, and while I think he's had ping of paranoia or two recently, he overall recognizes how different this game has been from my scum games.

I can say the same for you and for Tammy. While I get irritated by your paranoia, you've both stated that overall I'm a decently strong townread.

Even bork's perspective on me is somewhat understandable given he's said in the past that I escaped his radar in Tenet, and I could see him not wanting to give me a free pass this game because of that.

Dunnstral's read on me has been hard scum ever since I started the wagon on him early Day 1, there is no progression or genuine thought behind it. Even when I haven't been breathing down his neck, none of his content has given me town pings other than his early, short-lived interaction with LLD today.

[Spiffeh]

@Pooky thank you for providing more detail to your Cakez scum read, but seeing it all laid out like that makes me more confident that Cakez is Town, which is probably not what you were going for.

I similarly had an early feeling that mastina's posts were trash, but I had the same hangup as Cakez where mastina says some weird shit as either alignment and didn't think her bad content (constant prod-dodging, Prism flavor case) were enough to definitively call her scum. So seeing that same progression in Cakez's ISO is reassuring.

I see you're sketched out by his attempts to wagon Titus and Dunnstral over mastina, but in the screenshots you pulled, Cakez always had Titus and Dunn as more desirable lim targets, so his actions are super consistent with his reads lists. Cakez was the ultimate counter wagon to mastina at the end of the Day, so why aren't you calling anyone out for pushing Cakez over mastina?

And I agree with Prism that I think Cakez as scum would go for a more towncred-grabby approach when bussing mastina at the very end and don't agree that his "welp this is my only choice" vote was at all scum-motivated.

I think a lot of this analysis stems from your certainty that Cakez is scum, and highlighting things that fit that narrative, rather than going into his ISO openminded and getting a read genuinely. This is something I do a lot too which is why I've tried to move onto pushes other than Dunnstral.

Do you have any scum reads other than Cakez, and if so, who and why?

[Spiffeh]

I would love to hear LLD's and GI's thoughts on borkjerfkin and DGB.

[Spiffeh]

DGB - Dunno, just expecting something other than the entrance I got. Might imply Titus is town if flipped scum but I consider the error bars extremely wide on that. Was hoping to be able to put this higher up when the slot turned over but here we are.

How were you reading quiet while he was in the game? I ISO'd you to check but you didn't really mention him much, so does DGB being so low on your reads list have anything to do with him, or is it primarily its performance so far that puts it there?

[Spiffeh]

In DEFCON 4.0 the main, competing wagons at the end of Day 1 were Untrod Tripod and Something_Smart. Both of them were scum. When S_S was limmed, UT was practically cleared and won in MYLO because of it (among other things).

It can happen.

I'm not town reading you, Mathblade, or Titus for being competing wagons to flipped scum, those are reasons entirely separate from that.

I mentioned Pooky not considering other counter wagons to mastina because that is a huge tenant of his argument against you, it doesn't mean it's something I put much stock into.

PEdit: @Prism I'm writing up a response to bork rn, I am interested in your reevaluation of him, though!

[Spiffeh]

Bell, it seems like you're putting a lot of stock into Dunn's read of me, so why aren't you chomping at the bit for him to explain it further? Is it not concerning to you that he's held a strong scum read on me since the beginning of the game but has yet to justify it properly?

Or if you think he has justified it, can you point me to where he does so?

[Spiffeh]

Spiffeh - Wanted to save you for last because you've done some stuff I like and some stuff I don't. I feel like people who approach with the level of breadth you do are generally town, and yeah you're trying to kick stones around, but your engagement against still seems like someone who decided at the start of day he wanted to push on my slot because of the opening that ffery gave about it and the fact that I'm not hyper engaged at the moment.

I said later in Day 1 that my townread on you was souring in 1834. In this same post I ask ffery about why she was worried about you because after being in Tenet with your hydra I value her opinion on you and if she's seeing the same thing I'm seeing then maybe we're onto something. Later on I even ask you to elaborate on the votes on the mastina wagon because at the time it pinged me and it looks even worse with a mastina scum flip as I've already explained.

So I'm not sure if I buy that you really think I'm latching onto ffery's paranoia maliciously? I will admit that her death is something that spurred more focused attention on you, because we felt similarly about you by the end of the Day yesterday. This, along with the fact that I'm townreading every player that discussion was centering around today (Pooky, Cakez, Mathblade, Titus), made me want to shine more of a spotlight on you. So given the progression I've laid out, can you explain why my focus on you is more likely to be scum-motivated than Town who thinks everyone should pay more attention to you?

Can we drop the 'surface level' buzzword when describing what you actually don't like about my play here? That makes it utterly impossible to read into your motivations for calling me out here and honestly makes me not want to engage at all. Do you disagree with my points? Do you think I am overly simplifying things? Your suspicion is wrong, and pre-2528 based on imo a really simplistic "sangres kinda sorted suspected bork and sangres is now dead" (despite the fact that I was fucking heavily crumbing that I was going to visit them w/ something last night which by the way I fucking did and it sure was fuck wasn't with a kill)

Surface level is probably not the right way to word it and I'm sorry that that bothered you, it's not meant as an insult. I'll try to explain it a little better: Your content here feels different from Tenet. I felt you were more actively engaged in Tenet, you'd interact with people more in real time and come to visible and viable conclusions that made sense to me. But there's something about your posts and effort here that read to me like you're going through the motions. Your lack of real explanation or engagement about being sketched out with the sudden votes on mastina is an example of this. You did nothing further to confirm or deny your suspicions, where I expect town!bork to have done so. And as I pointed out early Day 1 I felt the places where you did interact with people, like ffery, felt lackluster and done because they were expected of you.

Basically, this game isn't really living up to what I'd expect from you after Tenet. And seeing as you yourself admitted that your motivation to play as scum is a far cry from your motivation to play as Town, pointing out places where that sentiment is ringing true is worthwhile.

[Spiffeh]

In DEFCON 4.0 the main, competing wagons at the end of Day 1 were Untrod Tripod and Something_Smart. Both of them were scum. When S_S was limmed, UT was practically cleared and won in MYLO because of it (among other things).

It can happen.

It can happen. Fine, vig the fucker. It'd be a better vig than Sangres or Kitty Trauma Team. IDC.

Lets do something else today rather than "back to the day 1 wagon even though the other one flipped scum."

To be clear, that was in response to Cakez' 2607.

GI what are your thoughts on bork and DGB atm?

[Spiffeh]

I want to read because Tammy's here and I love her posts

But I also don't want to read

[Spiffeh]

Mathblade I'm a little confused, I was locktown for you yesterday when I was defending you but today it seems like I am often thrown into your PoE lists.

Can you walk me through why you've changed your mind?

[Spiffeh]

@bork I know you said you're working backwards but can you address these when you get the chance?

DGB - Dunno, just expecting something other than the entrance I got. Might imply Titus is town if flipped scum but I consider the error bars extremely wide on that. Was hoping to be able to put this higher up when the slot turned over but here we are.

How were you reading quiet while he was in the game? I ISO'd you to check but you didn't really mention him much, so does DGB being so low on your reads list have anything to do with him, or is it primarily its performance so far that puts it there?

So given the progression I've laid out, can you explain why my focus on you is more likely to be scum-motivated than Town who thinks everyone should pay more attention to you?

[Spiffeh]

Prism I appreciate you a ton this game, did not expect you to be one of my favorite posters especially in this playerlist but you've blown me away

Thank you for your kind words

[Spiffeh]

Located town: spiffed, LLD. Prism. Bell.

I like this list except I'm still hesitant about spiff

Now I think you're just doing this to annoy me

[Spiffeh]

I don't think my point on Grey atm is particularly complex; intuitively I feel like his interactions around me have been all wrong, but lately I think he's been very content to ignore any points for town-Titus in favor of pushing her for playing poorly. (And if he's right, shame on me, but I haven't seen those given fair consideration despite him working so hard to get a reply out of me)

I'm undecided on GreyICE, I didn't really like GI's posts yesterday or his vote on Titus today, but something about his aggressive interaction with you made me want to town read him. He shares a similar spot in my mind as LLD, they are players who act pretty much the same as either alignment and are a headache for me to sort. The only caveat with that is I feel like GreyICE as scum does a little more appeasing and cares more about how he's perceived by the masses, and his attacks against you don't seem like a great move for scum!GI in terms of maintaining a positive public opinion. (Note: This could be a completely incorrect characterization of how GI plays as scum, it's been a hot minute since I've played with him)

I specifically liked the post where he talked about only needing on scum lim per Day; that mastina was the Day 1 scum lim and he's looking for the Day 2 scum lim, it had an undertone of cockiness that I've come to recognize in his Town game.

I am really interested to know LLD's thoughts on GI (and bork and DGB for that matter) when she returns tomorrow.

[Spiffeh]

Had virtually nothing on quiet with that ISO - didn't feel like I could confidently gleam anything out of what I got from his 8 or so posts. It's not really the basis for any read I have now.

That is understandable, so can you elaborate on why DGB occupies such a low spot in your reads list given the content it has provided so far?

I don't even disagree, I'd just like to know how you got there.

[Spiffeh]

Is it bad that I want to townread Dunnstral not giving an ounce of a shit about this game or my tunnel on him?

Not enough to drop my scum read on him, but enough to just throw my hands up in frustration and leave him alone today

[Spiffeh]

I acknowledge bork's recent effort and I see that he's going to elaborate on the DGB read, but at this point I am satisfied with my vote on him.

The fact that Tammy, Bell, Cakez, even Pooky somewhat have indicated they are seeing what I am seeing encourages me.

DGB is probably the only other place I'd compromise otherwise.

[Spiffeh]

LLD if there was anytime I wanted you to throw your Mason weight around it is now and for a bork lim

(I will be here tomorrow to legitimately catch up on what I’ve missed since yesterday)

[Spiffeh]

I’m sorry I’ve had a busy day and will have a busy weekend.

DGB is my second choice so consider my vote on it, will make some time to catch up before deadline and make a final decision.

[Spiffeh]

DGB townreading Titus this whole Day but keeping its vote there is not a good look.

[Spiffeh]

this feels pretty genuine for example

I feel like this is genuine too but why does it make you townread him?

Tammy misunderstood bork and he was taken aback by how he treated her, I feel like he reacts this way regardless of his alignment.

[Spiffeh]

Hi DGB

I believe your self vote puts you at L-1, you're not hammered.

I don't think there's any way in hell town!you votes yourself thinking you've hammered. I think this is a gambit to try to "townslip as a last ditch effort to save yourself.

[Spiffeh]

Like town would CLAIM THEIR PR there, not hammer themselves while claiming their PR.

So yeah I'm pretty sure DGB is scum here.

[Spiffeh]

Oh I guess I misinterpretted, you're not trying to pretend you hammered yourself.

Either way I don't think town!DGB acts like this.

[Spiffeh]

Very very town imo, there's a chance I'm wrong but I doubt it. This has come from multiple angles, starting out with just his lack of concern for how he's positioned (big towntell given my experience with him where, to quote Wallows, his scum style both in strength and in weakness is best summarized as "Looking for a sense of relation/Where do people want me to be?"), transitioning into tonally town for the sangres reaction, into town for the interaction with Tammy yesterday and immediately moving to nip any concerns I had about Tammy in the bud over sitting back and watching potential fireworks.

You know how you said you think there's scum in your town reads?

I think it's bork.

[Spiffeh]

I think bork is scum obviously but DGB's self vote is practically a scum claim for me.

In what world does a town PR vote for themselves while claiming in the same post? Wouldn't they just... claim their role without voting themselves?

I can see DGB being frustrated but not to the point of self voting and acting defeatist, when looking at the posts prior to her self vote.

The self vote is meant to manipulate and get Town second-guessing, I don't see why DGB's recent posts have people hesitating and not wanting to drive it into the ground even more.

[Spiffeh]

Wow this complete and utter confidence that I'm scum came out of nowhere!

Why have you been parked on a townread all Day instead of pushing for my lim if you truly felt this way?

Is it because that "townread" being limmed was your only chance at surviving?

[Spiffeh]

For the record, I only haven't voted DGB at this point because I am still like 4-5 pages behind.

Reading that and will post final thoughts soon.

[Spiffeh]

Is it because that "townread" being limmed was your only chance at surviving?

Is that a problem?

I know my alignment.

I'm not talking about now that it's inevitably between the two of you, I'm talking about the whole Day before you were really even a candidate for the lim.

You have touted her as a town read all this time but have been parked on her ever since Mathblade said he thought she was scum.

Why?

[Spiffeh]

I feel like Spiffeh has been vocally talking about wanting to vote DGB today but has patently avoided doing it, even in the face of one of the hardest scumreads I've seen this game (and certainly harder than he should be ostensibly scumreading me at this particular juncture based on what he's posted)
Like in the same post of "Hey I think this is a scumclaim from DGB (which is not contrary to anything he's previously stated; doesn't vote there) but lemme tell you about bork here hint hint"

When I think the town thing to here is to leave me until tomorrow if he really thinks we're both scum

this heavily imples DGB scum

My mention of you was in response to Bell saying he would be fine with your lim today.

The post you're referencing was me convincing him that DGB should be the lim today based on her recent posts which I believe to be extremely scummy.

I haven't voted DGB today because I had a stronger scum read on you and pretty much haven't been around since my huge effort catch up like 12 pages ago.

Nice try BORK

[Spiffeh]

DGB is claiming one-shot bulletproof bodyguard

Wow I missed the bulletproof part

This is NOT a town claim

[Spiffeh]

Intent to hammer

, if LLD and co. are good with it

Bork trying to push on me with his last few posts are atrocious and he will be the lim for tomorrow

Thank you everyone for your effort today

[Spiffeh]

I'm mostly fine with Prism getting the artifact, like ideally I would want give it to a town read that is unlikely to be nk'd (i.e. Cakez) but I don't think a lot of people would agree on him and it's not worth risking the page count to argue that.

Bork had some awful end of Day posts yesterday so he is still my top target for elimination, he didn't do much to change my mind otherwise. Prism, I saw you call him out for these, have you changed your mind or are you questioning your bork townread at all today?

Dunn is probably next although his posts yesterday just make me think he doesn't care about this game which makes him hard to read? I'm at a loss for who else could really be scum beyond that. My paranoia on Titus is spiking again, I'm a little concerned she's not actively pushing scum reads as much as she was in Tenet (re: Brian Skies). GreyICE and Battle Mage should be looked into more.

I have town reads on the rest of the playerlist in some capacity but as the game progresses I'm gonna have to be more critical of who I write off

[Spiffeh]

Hey Tammy, Prism, Cakez, I know you guys have been engaging me a fair amount this game so that's great but all three of you keep saying if anyone's getting one over on you as scum it's me (Cakez has been more directly suspicious of me) so maybe if we can hash that out and you can mention your specific concerns for me to address that would make you feel better? I don't want to make this a big thing or waste pages on it but I'm townreading all three of you fairly confidently and feel it would be best if you all felt the same about me.

The three of you repeatedly stating your paranoia of me plus the "scum reads" from bork and Dunn are starting to irritate me and I don't want to become demotivated as a result.

My last three completed games on the site were scum games. I was, and am, exhausted of playing scum. Rolling scum in Pooky vs. FL and Tenet at the same time really damaged my enthusiasm to play it and if I were scum here I GUARANTEE I would not have provided one quarter of the content I have provided here. I don't think I've ever been this open and in depth as Town before but I was so excited I got a green PM in THIS playerlist that I wanted to actually hunt scum which is something I haven't been able to do for like a year.

Maybe this is unfair to unload on you guys because I know you're all just playing the game, and maybe it won't even accomplish that much but for the sake of more cohesiveness between myself and my town reads I would appreciate if you'd directly address your concerns rather than stew in paranoia until endgame, assuming we get there and any of us are still alive by then.

[Spiffeh]

@Bell Yes I thought we were trying to be subtle

I saw your instructions too

[Spiffeh]

I would like to point out that LLD and Sangres have a commonality in reads, but I'm sure everyone is aware.

I would bet over half the playerlist is not aware. I am though!

[Spiffeh]

Instead of grandstanding about it: what was bad about my posts in a way that you're applying scum motivation to?
and I dunno; you basically vote parked me all day yesterday, but you seem to feel that you have to qualify the fact that you want me gone now by virtue of my bad end of day posts and that makes me further question the earnestness of your vote being where it was in the first place yesterday.

I dunno. Fucking talk to me about it. I'm town, and I'm resetting today. I suggest you do the same.

The posts that bothered me are below (surprise, they're all about me!):

I feel like Spiffeh has been vocally talking about wanting to vote DGB today but has patently avoided doing it, even in the face of one of the hardest scumreads I've seen this game (and certainly harder than he should be ostensibly scumreading me at this particular juncture based on what he's posted)
Like in the same post of "Hey I think this is a scumclaim from DGB (which is not contrary to anything he's previously stated; doesn't vote there) but lemme tell you about bork here hint hint"

When I think the town thing to here is to leave me until tomorrow if he really thinks we're both scum

this heavily imples DGB scum

Pushing me today in general is whatever, but we're close to deadline and you're where you are and Spiffeh is where he is at

I realize spiffeh posted his "this is why I'm not on DGB" right now like right above me but that's still how I feel

I already addressed why your interpretation of it was wrong in 3153. To be honest I was like 100% sure you and DGB were scum buddies after 3141 and I was all set to call that out today had DGB flipped scum. Regardless, I think a quick read through my posts Day 2 would tell you that DGB was always my second choice and I had no problem with its lim. I wasn't around as the DGB wagon took off and by the time I returned it was at L-2 or L-1? and felt no need to add my vote in before I was done catching up. I was not avoiding it. You did a decent amount of talking about DGB but only voted it for like 25 minutes and never went back. What is the difference between my not being on her lim wagon and yours?

More importantly, my interpretation of your read on me Day 2 was that you didn't like my push on you but you were still torn. I don't think I was even in the bottom row or players in your reads list. However, in 3141 you seem to be scum reading me to the point that MY actions there "heavily implied DGB scum", which is not only bad because preflip associatives are bad, but is a disconnect from how you were struggling to read me prior. And I understand you were supposedly scum reading DGB but I feel it was a pretty garbage reason to give your blessing for the DGB wagon.

I feel I have engaged you a fair amount this game so I don't really buy the whole "talk to me about it" shtick. I have talked significantly about my issues with you and not much you have provided has changed my mind. I am looking forward to your reset as I desperately want to identify you as Town if you are Town. To start, who are your top three scum reads?

[Spiffeh]

@Math Prism Tammy I see your responses and appreciate them, I will address them tomorrow as work should be a little slower. (Although I'm getting the first dose of the vaccine so that is dependent on how I feel)

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: borkjerfkin

[Spiffeh]

I received it at the start of Afternoon today.

[Spiffeh]

That is when I received the PM from the mod, I can confirm with her if that was intended.

[Spiffeh]

Cakez’ account is correct regardless, he checked me yesterday and received results last night iirc, and I did not have any artifacts last night.

I have PM’d the mod to confirm when I received the artifact.

[Spiffeh]

Because I scumread Spiffeh.

??????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Spiffeh]

Mod has confirmed that I received the artifact at the correct time, after morning and before afternoon

[Spiffeh]

It's almost like

None of this matters

[Spiffeh]

Bork I’m genuinely not trying to upset you, I didn’t think my scum read on you has been invasive to the point that it would make you this frustrated with me but I guess it has and I’m sorry.

I just think you’re scum and voted you because it. Sangres, LLD, Bell, Tammy, all town reads of mine have felt there was something off about you, I just have happened to be the most vocal.

I hope this doesn’t disrupt the reset you planned for today.

[Spiffeh]

Sorry for having to be prodded, I should have some time tonight to post in this game, bbl

[Spiffeh]

Sorry I lied

I don't think Titus is scum here, I doubt she continues to be a large wagon but today chooses to scum read me when I'm one of the few players actively town reading her

I have pretty much all of the Day to read but I PROMISE PROMISE PROMISE I will be here later tonight to catch up and contribute sorry fam

[Spiffeh]

I love when people devote walls to explaining why I'm Town thank you Prism

[Spiffeh]

The only fun part about playing mafia is when people talk about me

[Spiffeh]

I am mostly caught up

Not much to say other than not thrilled with notty's entrance

[Spiffeh]

Bell where are you at with Dunnstral right now?

[Spiffeh]

So I don't really think Cakez is scum still but not sure if anything I can do would really help save him/get the lim onto my preferred targets especially given my absence all Day

If he is then great I'm happy to have been wrong as long as we hit another scum but I doubt it

If Dunnstral is town here this is the worst I've ever seen him play and I don't really feel that bad saying that because despite my scum read on him I've given him ample space to actually play and he has done jack shit. I find his play here so unbelievable as town but I can't help but have a nagging feeling that he would actually care as scum?

Bork is still my priority lim, the fact that Bell, Tammy, Pooky, now notty (and dead players sangres, LLD) all see what I'm seeing is enough for me to be fairly confident in the read. I know Prism had a town case on him that I have yet to go through so I will do that.

Sorry I've been absent pretty much all Day, I've been really demotivated to play mafia (has nothing to do with the game itself) and I'm having a rough time staying focused, I plan to be read over and respond to what I've missed and ideally I'll be around for the remainder of the day

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Spiffeh]

Spiffeh, how do you currently feel about bork?

I can point to 1 concrete issue Day 1 around the mastina wagon, while I mostly like it for tonal reasons. Fundamentally I like this slot atm, I liked the reaction to sangres/Tammy, and that claim in my mind him solidifies him being almost certainly town.

Recent posting imo has been stellar even if fakeable. Might collate stuff when I'm finished with D2/D3 but for now I'm just scrolling through and still liking him mostly for tone. There's a world where bork is scum trying to save mastina before deciding not to but it's tough to see that world without a Titus flip on the table and I don't think that'd be damning even if she were town.

Also still curious as to why you weren't hardshoving Dunnstral now that bork has gotten more attention/has reacted well (imo) given the strength of your read Day 1. This is literally the only issue I have with your slot atm.

Nothing bork has posted has done anything to change my mind. That's not to say everything in his recent posting is bad or scummy but I definitely wouldn't go as far to say that ANY of it is stellar. I know your bork town case is coming up so maybe I'll have more to engage with you on when I read that over.

Dunnstral's lack of caring and more importantly his reaction to LLD early Day 2 spooked me into thinking I was wrong about him, which is the main reason I haven't really done much with him. I do think he has a higher chance of flipping scum than Cakez which is why I voted for him.

He has pretty much turned into a nothing-slot since early Day 2. I haven't really seen anything that bothers me (mostly because he hasn't DONE anything) and I haven't cared enough to push him so I've put him on the back burner. It's similar to how I've felt about Battle Mage and GreyICE, they haven't done much to pique my interest one way or another so I haven't really considered them one way or the other. Ideally I SHOULD be putting the effort into prioritizing reading these slots especially since I have some level of town read on everyone else but I am too lazy/not motivated to put in the effort to do so. It's definitely bad play on my part and I want to do better.

[Spiffeh]

Hey Dunn are you still scum reading me?

You know I'm hard town read by p. much the whole game. Do you wanna do something about it or...?

[Spiffeh]

I know it was a little harsh but I've had so much respect for your town game recently and this game is like the polar opposite of the three town games of yours I've participated in since my return.

So can you step it up? It takes more effort to be sassy and intentionally unhelpful than it is to just answer questions that are directed at you.

[Spiffeh]

And if it makes you feel better I have been pretty bad most of Day 2/all of Day 3 because I've been lazy, so I get being demotivated as Town.

I want to see if that's what you are or if this drastic change in play is because you have a red role PM, and refusing to actually engage is not going to help either of us.

[Spiffeh]

I know you've had some back and forth with bork, but sometimes it looks like you leave the conversation town reading him and other times it looks like you're scum reading him so I don't really know where you stand with him right now. Can you elaborate on that read?

Also any scum reads other than Cakez/maybe bork?

[Spiffeh]

I don't really scumread you anymore.

In a few sentences can you explain why you changed your mind on me?

[Spiffeh]

Spiffy why no Cakez?

Fun fact I almost accidentally reported this post instead of clicking "quote".

If you ISO me I've had a Cakez as a town read pretty much all game and nothing much has changed. I feel like Cakez gets universally scum read every game regardless of his alignment, I don't get the sense that he's trying too hard or trying to be a badass with his posts. When Cakez is scum I feel I can identify when he's being fake and I don't feel that way here.

[Spiffeh]

@Spiffeh, use it on Bork or MB or it's a scum claim.

Also, I don't know exactly what it does, but I have a guess.

Everybody else ignore this ty, ty.

I am responsible for poisoning bork, I used the artifact Bell passed me per his instructions. I chose bork because I'm scum reading him and townreading Mathblade.

Obvi I was wrong about Cakez but I'm glad all you great people pushed his lim through despite my disapproval!

[Spiffeh]

One thing I will say is that there is no way in hell I as scum would ever let my scum buddy SirCakez continue to be "paranoid" of me when I have players like Bell, sangres, Tammy, Prism, Pooky, etc. all townreading me fairly confidently. If I as scum got all of these players to feel good about me, my scum buddy SirCakez continuing to poke at me and mention not trusting me would actually be an atrocious move on our part as a scum team.

So while I understand I might not look great with a Cakez scum flip given my defense of him throughout the game it's actually pretty easy to just...think a little bit more and see that I am not his buddy.

[Spiffeh]

I'm actually going to save us all the time and the rabbit hole.

I have a mechanical clear on Spiffeh, scarf was a PT cop w/ negative effect that I am now in a PT by myself.

THANK YOU OH MY GOD I DON'T HAVE TO DEFEND MYSELF THE REST OF THE GAME

[Spiffeh]

Bork I am sorry if you're town but you're my biggest scum read and Bell included you as a viable candidate so I went with you.

You are free to call me bad for the rest of the game, I did defend scum!SirCakez after all.

[Spiffeh]

Prism you have been my guardian angel all game thank you for your service.

I plan to comb through associations with Cakez, one reason I felt comfortable with following through on the bork poison after the Cakez flip was because he initially seemed to agree with me on the Bork suspicion on Day 1/early Day 2 but that basically dematerialized and he just never mentioned it again?

I pretty much agree with Pooky's PoE list of Battle Mage/notty/bork at this point but it won't hurt to read back through Cakez interactions

[Spiffeh]

SCUMREADS ON SPIFFEH WILL NO LONGER BE TOLERATED AT THIS TIME

I actually already declared this back in 813, idk why people refused to listen

Look at me now

[Spiffeh]

Pooky I think I'm gonna sheep you today you've earned it after all the heartache I put you through not reading your Cakez cases.

[Spiffeh]

My useless theory:

Tammy was silenced because she would be one of the few defending me today and I was the scum designated mis lim
Prism seems like a decent target but as one of the only players defending scum!bork the scum team thought Prism would be valuable in saving him

[Spiffeh]

The only fun part about playing mafia is when people talk about me

[Spiffeh]

I think it's worth mentioning (especially since I believe he's been informed of this anyway) that bork can be saved from the poison if someone protected/protects him last night, today, or tonight. So no one should do that.

[Spiffeh]

Is there really a point in mass claiming? It only outs any potential PR's that are still hidden for scum to have on their radar, I don't think we're in a bad spot right now nor do I think a mass claim would even help anyway.

[Spiffeh]

That's fair I guess I didn't think about the artifact component.

Maybe just reveal whether we've used an artifact or not and if we have who did we target and what did it do?

[Spiffeh]

Yeah I don't really care about an order as long as everyone claims whether they used an artifact or not but here you go:
notscience
Battle Mage
borkjerfkin
Titus
Dunnstral
Mathblade
Prism
Pooky

Please claim whether you have used an artifact(s) and if so what did it do etc. TIA

[Spiffeh]

@mod V/LA until Sunday 3/28

[Spiffeh]

ESPECIALLY if tammy actually does have a guilty on bork- he is the very person I am referencing here who refuses to concede. He makes town earn their win.

Why do we think Tammy has a guilty on bork?

Also I definitely have not looked at Cakez associatives yet even though I want to, I hope I do that before days end (I know we have time but I'm lazy)

Still plan to sheep Pooky unless I find something super juicy!

[Spiffeh]

I'm honestly fine just voting bork so there's no chance he's protected from the poison, up to you guys

[Spiffeh]

Anything specific you'd like my input on Prism?

[Spiffeh]

Anything specific you'd like my input on Prism?

I haven't really tracked your current thinking well, but what do you think of BM/MathBlade?

Titus's early posts are still really bad but I'm waiting to see what happens with the wagons on her and how Cakez reacts.

Mathblade I've thought was Town from the beginning and still feel that way, BM is in my PoE pool but honestly his recent posts seem Town to me?

Gun to my head I'd say the final scum is notty (assuming bork is scum)

I want to look into Cakez associations tomorrow (I WILL HOLD MYSELF TO THIS I PROMISE) and focus specifically on the slots you've asked me about

[Spiffeh]

Prism you are doing the Lord's work

[Spiffeh]

LOL Sorry I literally check all the new posts and then am too lazy to try to do things so I close out

[Spiffeh]

Aw poor Tammy gets prodded when she can't even post anything