Warehouse 13: The Mafia Game (Game Over)

[Dunnstral]

I think Spiffeh town BM scum Prism null LLD scum lean Cakez is prob town but scum in a very minor circumstance so not considering it. If I am right then Titus is town by proxy.

Scummy reads

[Dunnstral]

I think Spiffeh town BM scum Prism null LLD scum lean Cakez is prob town but scum in a very minor circumstance so not considering it. If I am right then Titus is town by proxy.

Scummy reads

This all you have to say?

No I also didn't like post 164

[Dunnstral]

The townreads on Sangres feel weird

[Dunnstral]

Is there any reason for us to think the comb is a good artifact that does good things?

I see people claiming early townreads and trying to pass it off quickly.

[Dunnstral]

Maybe I'm calling this out too early

Yeah, you are.

LLD, I would have voted for you to receive the artifact even if you hadn't claimed

[Dunnstral]

HG Wells, VT, Artifact was a Minoan Trident.

Your turn.

I wouldn't expect your role to be straight VT if you received a flavor artifact at the start, would expect [modifier] townie or something

[Dunnstral]

I'm going to need a letter from your Doctor explaining why you aren't voting LLD instantly RN @Everybody.

I'm reading you loud and clear

[Dunnstral]

Nope

[Dunnstral]

Other Artifact distribution mechanics may be in play throughout the game. A set number of Artifacts were designed prior to game start. If the Warehouse is unable to distribute enough Artifacts during the game for a given phase at any point, a priority list has been designated by the mod for the distribution of remaining Artifacts. Once there are no more Artifacts to distribute, no new ones will be generated and the game will continue without that mechanic in play

Is this how Prism got their artifact?

[Dunnstral]

I agree with Prism that Dunn's recent activity after getting called out doesn't make me feel better.

It feels like he's trying to give the impression that he's unbothered by the pressure, whereas town!Dunnstral would probably recognize the issues with his current play and... do better?

This post feels loaded and I believe you are making things up

[Dunnstral]

But yes, I'm not bothered right now. You can figure out why.

[Dunnstral]

Hot take: dunnstral is scum again

This is not a hot take, it's a good one.

Three of Dunny's four posts have been low effort nitpicks, and the other was a mechanics question that I didn't understand. 174 specifically doesn't sound like something town says, questioning specific players about their sangres read is one thing but shading everyone town reading them without explanation is useless. It reminds me of Titus vs. Alisae when I caught him for similar shady, nitpicky posting where he'd lurk and post full quote-wall catch ups taking potshots at random shit that never ended up forming into genuine reads or having real progression.

And while I've been scum in my three recently completed games, Dunn has been town in all of them and he it was obvious from his first few posts. That's not the case here.

Maybe I'm calling this out too early and it would have been better to see how he continues to play the game without my interference but I kinda want to try and this is me trying

VOTE: Dunnstral

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... ct[]=30572

[Dunnstral]

Ok what's your point here? This is such a dumb thing to nitpick.

My point is that I feel like you're making mountains out of emotional molehills by calling that a meltdown, and that's a real real strong alarm bell to me.

So again, I ask you, what part of that post you quoted do you call a meltdown? Two mildly peeved posts, if even that level of annoyance is hardly a meltdown, but that's the word you used.

-k

He was literally saying he was excited to play the game but was accepting that he was going to be elimmed after like one person attacked him. It was ridiculous.

LLD Mala Prism Bell Titus Dunn are one person. Some have stated they’ve checked out til elim phase. That’s not one person.

Are you saying I somehow attacked you?

[Dunnstral]

In terms of negatives, besides following the logic on Dunn, who I like as a vote because it helps resolve 1.65 townies

So you'll slot them as scum if I flip town?

[Dunnstral]

Saying 'because of my character' when you're claiming vt doesn't answer the question mechanically. What you quote isn't a response to what I asked.

[Dunnstral]

The question you just asked was what mechanism I got my artifact through. I answered both via quote and directly all capsing at you telling you that players can start with artifacts in their inventory. Mine ~just happens~ to be related to my character flavor. This absolutely answers the question of how it was mechanically distributed.

The mod post I quoted answers my question. You telling me things doesn't, because I don't have a reason to believe you when you claim like that

[Dunnstral]

You're mistaken if you think I've given a read on prism. Me saying I can't trust means the claim at face value. I think Spiffeh is scummy and the townreads there are bad/rushed VOTE: Spiffeh

[Dunnstral]

Right, well, I hope that by working together with the table you will be able to come to a conclusion on whether or not this falls under "other artifact distribution mechanisms", I wish you the absolute best of luck in your long and perilous journey.

Maybe if we're lucky we will get a mass artifact start/no artifact start claim Day 1.

You are overblowing this, I asked a question about a part of the setup

[Dunnstral]

I wonder if there is a traitor.

Based on what?
Even mentioning this unprompted feels like possible signaling if true

[Dunnstral]

Like, why did you actually start talking about traitor?

[Dunnstral]

I'm pretty sure flavor does not equal alignment knowing the mods

[Dunnstral]

It should be my iso that game, which you referenced but is completely different from what I had in this game - not that I had enough to meta off of antway

[Dunnstral]

Math, there are at least three facepalms I see already from you, which prevent you from being effective or being the NK and increase your risk of being policied.

1) You still are not letting the thread breathe.

2) You claimed VT or strongly implied it.

3) Your setup speccing with no evidenve to do so.

4) In your rush to post, your reads are incomprehensible.

Wait a day. Then post a read wall.

I'm only suggesting this because I think your bonehead plays are anti-town but you aren't scum. Keep it up and I'll vote to policy you.

Seems about right.

[Dunnstral]

@Dunn, why did you choose to push back on Spiff and not Cakez? Do you have a Cakez read?

Because spiffeh looks scummy. I don't know about sircakez.

@Dunnstrall, why did you mean you read me loud and clear btw? I literally had not idea what you were referring to.

Look at what you capitalized

[Dunnstral]

Dunn is rough, the softs make me want to say town but are just bizarre.

I have not softed my role this game.

[Dunnstral]

Titus is being really manipulative right now.

[Dunnstral]

That was also a joke. It was a reference to nursing because we need a bunch of doctors notes to do a bunch of different procedures. I intentionally capitalized doctor to continue the gag.
Did everyone just forgot that I told everyone in that game I don't crumb?

I was joking too, otherwise I wouldn't draw so much attention to it

[Dunnstral]

Dunn, Bell, if you had to add one player to your town block who would it be?
And no repeating who the last player said.

prism, bell, lld

leaning on quiet

[Dunnstral]

It is unclear but I am leaning towards them not knowing.

[Dunnstral]

I don't think you should claim what the artifact does. I can think of better plays to make

[Dunnstral]

The townreads on Sangres feel weird

Dunn I've asked before -- please elaborate.

Specifically, whose reads, and what makes those reads weird?

Spiffeh needs to do something that isn't shitposting, sangres is a townlean mainly because it's Nacho specifically voting to give me the artifact.

P-Edit: speak of the devil

Thought about it more, haven't read last page and can't atm but zero chance sangres is scum here

VOTE: Sangres

I'm on my phone so pretty limited, but the short of it is that sangres would make a bigger show of paranoia here, which hasn't happened yet. They also respect my towngame too much to fight on my behalf out of the gate like this, let alone give me the artifact. Hard town.

Playstyle it's nice to have diversity.

This read because it seemed like townreading someone too fast

[Dunnstral]

I think I thought more people towned you because Prism kept bringing it up

[Dunnstral]

I don't think the read is scummy, I just think you're jumping to conclusions too fast.

[Dunnstral]

Why don't you find that scummy?

Because it's something town do a lot too

[Dunnstral]

If it was Prism's read that bothered you, I don't understand why you didn't push him for more reasoning then.

You should pay more attention to what I'm saying. I'm not calling it scum

[Dunnstral]

My impression of the game was that you were getting townreads too easily. I also think this is true for spiffeh, by the by. I had 4 posts at the time, saying I didn't follow up isn't really fair

[Dunnstral]

Please don’t call people it unless they say they are okay with it. It can be a very harmful pronoun.

I'm referring to the action.

[Dunnstral]

Ok now I'm two for two on players vocally suspect coming back and saying my push was scummy. Nice.

Hey, I see it. I happen to think the way people are turning on you seems scummy.

I think bork is sidelining too hard right now with no opinion on me at all and I think Titus has felt manipulative. I think Mathblade is being too survivalistic and was just looking for a reason to scumread me and hasnt let it go.

VOTE: Mathblade

Let's keep the original wagon going instead of redirecting, we have a better chance of getting scum.

[Dunnstral]

I do but if Dunn is town Titus stock goes down.
Bell is one of my few lock towns.

Bell is based on what? He's my highest SR currently.

VOTE: SirCakez

Come sheep me Bell.

Based on me being a day cop Titus /s

I have reasons but they’re anti town to say

VOTE: Mathblade

If you aren't willing to rationally discuss your reads but expect people to sheep you, I have no hope of reading you. When you don't work with people who are wagoning your scumreads because it's not your favorite, then I cannot work with you.

If I cannot read you and I cannot work with you, why keep you?

This isn't "persuasive", it's manipulative

[Dunnstral]

How do you feel about Spiffeh's reply in 516?

I don't think that is a reply to the post I am talking about

I don't think the number of posts before or after matter.

I think you could make an argument that I made a mountain out of a molehill, though.

Can you expand on this post?

People are writing you guys off as town too easily when you very well can still be scum, for no reason other than you started making likeable posts

[Dunnstral]

There's a lot of mildly suspicious slots that REALLY don't want to go mathblade, or won't discuss mathblade, but are a-okay going titus, so that means we go mathblade today

[Dunnstral]

Sircakez, Battle Mage, GreyIce, and yourself

This is resistance to mathblade, not all are ok with going titus as well; most are instead tunneled on me to a frankly unrealistic degree

Sangres is honorarily ont he list because they keep directing questions at me while supposedly suspecting Mathblade but it doesn't have the same feel

[Dunnstral]

my gut feeling is we should use D1 to elim a slot which won't solve itself over time. No point elimming math early when his alignment will become obvious later.

Battle Mage says this then tunnels on me in an awkward way while throwing Math townreads - I'm not that hard of a slot to read. His whole play feels disingenuous

Next is you or Sircakez distracting from Mathblade hard

[Dunnstral]

Because where I'm coming from, in the event that MathBlade is scum (which I highly highly doubt atm), it's a little hard to believe that any scum would fight for him at this point when he's dug himself a huge hole?

I would expect scum to bus him into the ground here instead of risk themselves trying to save him. And I think you're smart enough to be able to see that too.

This amounts to a self-defense

[Dunnstral]

To be clear I don't think scum would roll over this day phase and start pushing math

[Dunnstral]

To be more clear:

As long as LLD is claiming mason and is going to take control of the game, I'm not going to be the wagon for today unless there is strong disagreements from multiple members of the town

So that's why all these arguments about me seeming desperate or flailing are out of place. The only way I'm getting eliminated today is if LLD thinks that is a good idea.

And like, I wasn't super obviously town at the start of the game, sure, but I become readable, and it's a hard sell to believe that everyone pushing me today is acting in good faith

So no, I'm done barking for spiffeh and sangres. No more distractions. We can talk about why Mathblade is scum if you want.

My scum reads:

Mathblade,

Spiffeh

,

SirCakez

,

Battle Mage

,

Bork

,

GreyIce

Last two are light reads

[Dunnstral]

Look how easily they scumread me when I pointed out that they would be the most likely traitor for bringing up traitor for what seems like no reason

And then they latched onto that and scumread me for it and kept that read; the slightest provocation set them off on that path. They are the one who looks 'desperate' as they said
Posts 492, 499, 504, 550, 554

As a sort of exercise, can you figure out Mathblade's reason for voting me?

[Dunnstral]

Ok what's your point here? This is such a dumb thing to nitpick.

My point is that I feel like you're making mountains out of emotional molehills by calling that a meltdown, and that's a real real strong alarm bell to me.

So again, I ask you, what part of that post you quoted do you call a meltdown? Two mildly peeved posts, if even that level of annoyance is hardly a meltdown, but that's the word you used.

-k

He was literally saying he was excited to play the game but was accepting that he was going to be elimmed after like one person attacked him. It was ridiculous.

LLD Mala Prism Bell Titus Dunn are one person. Some have stated they’ve checked out til elim phase. That’s not one person.

Are you saying I somehow attacked you?

Let's not forget about this.

[Dunnstral]

Have you played with Math since coming back from hiatus?

I haven't. Nacho probably has more recent game experience than me.

I'm not townreading Math.

I'm going to take this under advisement because Mathblade's approach to the game, particularly that bit about 1 but not 2 scum in prism/bork gave me a nasty case of hives. Maybe you can be the counter-balance to my tendencies wrt

I kinda feel the same but I'm not sure how much of it comes from the Dunn wagon basically popping up as a counter to the Mathblade push.

This is what I was looking at when I made the post.

[Dunnstral]

The only way I'm getting eliminated today is if LLD thinks that is a good idea.

You are severely overestimating the pull LLD has in this playerlist :lol:

Then I'll get math elimmed

[Dunnstral]

Have you played with Math since coming back from hiatus?

I haven't. Nacho probably has more recent game experience than me.

I'm not townreading Math.

I'm going to take this under advisement because Mathblade's approach to the game, particularly that bit about 1 but not 2 scum in prism/bork gave me a nasty case of hives. Maybe you can be the counter-balance to my tendencies wrt

I kinda feel the same but I'm not sure how much of it comes from the Dunn wagon basically popping up as a counter to the Mathblade push.

This is what I was looking at when I made the post.

That's a pretty damn curated segment of our trajectories on Math. I'd go so far as to say "cherry-picked".

Yeah.

What you're not realizing is that I'm not trying to prove that you had this opinion, I'm trying to prove that when I was typing up my reply and looking over your posts, this was the impression I got. I also skimmed over something like "It's strange that we're not seeing math in the same way" which was neutral without looking into context

[Dunnstral]

Look how easily they scumread me when I pointed out that they would be the most likely traitor for bringing up traitor for what seems like no reason

you first mentioned traitor (499) after math declared a scumread on you (492)

this just seems like a "math is OMGUSing me" dressed up in something irrelevant, factually untrue or otherwise

It's not omgus because I didn't call them scum. They said I attacked them somewhere but they can't point to it, and indeed I didn't even mention them prior.

Seperate point, look at 550 and try to work out what Math is saying here

[Dunnstral]

I think Spiffeh town BM scum Prism null LLD scum lean Cakez is prob town but scum in a very minor circumstance so not considering it. If I am right then Titus is town by proxy.

Scummy reads

Probably would've been my guess

I forgot I made this post. Looking back these were scummy reads

Eg Dunn and Cakez although not voting saying meltdown

I literally can't parse this

It's their justification for voting me

[Dunnstral]

Now think bork. Think of all the questions that have been coming my way from sangres and spiffeh

Why does it feel like people aren't questioning Mathblade?

[Dunnstral]

It's their justification for voting me

what does it mean then?

Ask math, not me.

But it looks like they are saying that I was saying they were having a meltdown, which is not true. That could also be directed as jsut SirCakez so I'm not really sure.

Either way that seems like a criminally low bar to set

This has been my argument for other people this game, but sangres/pooky and others are being SO defensive about it, like how dare I question their godreads

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral is all like "better not let this easy miselim slip out of our hands"

This does not sound like my scum play, or what you've seen of my scum play. It's also very weak.

You just saw me in Popcorn Mafia

[Dunnstral]

on the other hand there's been like a metric fuckton of conversation about mathblade, and you've come out on the side of "this is a concerted effort to protect a buddy" vs "some other people are seeing something different than me" and it's odd that you're just not considering the latter

I was considering the latter.

But then Math made scummy posts
And the people voting me made scummy posts

[Dunnstral]

Why would scum want me a let’s be generous and say below average player like me dead?

Free miselimination is a free miselimination

That’s what I said. That’s why towards the end (Eg Dunn and Cakez although not voting saying meltdown) are more likely scum than not mason LLD and Prism.

So why is my name here

[Dunnstral]

Dunn you're making me crazy.

I hate getting into nearly the same nitpicks with you over and over again. I feel like the conflict is muddying my read, not clarifying it. Maybe the read should be more muddy.

I'm not calling you scum. I'm saying other players are not doing enough to read you/set the bar too low/came to conclusions too fast/aren't doing due diligence, and that you're not hard town

You don't have to take that as a personal attack on you; it's not

[Dunnstral]

What I want is accountability.

There's no accountability in saying "other players" and "started making likeable posts" without details on who and on where our posts got "likeable" so I can even know what "likeable" means to you.

I don't think the level of accountability I'm being held to is the same as other people are

[Dunnstral]

I developed a ton of respect for your play and approach to the game in Tenet despite our both being pocketed by scum-Dandelion. It came to naught in that game, but I thought the fundamentals of your townhunting, scumhunting, and leadership/management in the forward thread was really solid.

If you're town here, I hope your play reaches that level and I want to work with you -- this time without being lost in deep fog and unable to link up with other town as well.

Right now, I don't feel like we're on a course where that happens.

Yeah? My play in Tenet didn't happen spontaneously when I joined the game

Here I got voted instantly after having made 4 posts, and I'm constantly being hounded about those four posts (you're still doing this)

[Dunnstral]

What I want is accountability.

There's no accountability in saying "other players" and "started making likeable posts" without details on who and on where our posts got "likeable" so I can even know what "likeable" means to you.

I don't think the level of accountability I'm being held to is the same as other people are

That's probably true. You've snagged my attention and right now you're chewing up a lot -- arguably too much -- of my bandwidth.

I don't think you're putting similar levels of scrutiny on other players' townreads either. This player list doesn't lack for big personalities/reputations.

The appeal you didn't respond to is sincere. I'm going to try to back off and give you space to do other stuff.

And myself as well.

I'm reading it

You want to see my tenet play? That can happen, but it's not how I come out of the gates

[Dunnstral]

Really? 152 made me go from nullscum to locktown?

[Dunnstral]

Really? 152 made me go from nullscum to locktown?

152 was also my first post of the game, by the way

[Dunnstral]

Really? 152 made me go from nullscum to locktown?

152 was also my first post of the game, by the way

Hey Dunn, I think we’re both being set up here.

Can you do a read wall and I just vote the person lowest on your wall I agree with?

Kinda thinking Mastina Titus?

Just gonna reset all my reads

Other than you?

Titus
Spiffeh

Battle Mage
Sircakez

Scummier near the bottom

[Dunnstral]

Ask math, not me.

But it looks like they are saying that I was saying they were having a meltdown, which is not true. That could also be directed as jsut SirCakez so I'm not really sure.

how is it a reason for math being scum then if you aren't super clear on it either? this is why i was asking you and not him

How come math is allowed to say things that don't make sense and get away with it with nobody asking what it means?

And also not answer for it

[Dunnstral]

I've got a bunch of shit in various tabs that I'm going to have to collate at some point but I think this one is interesting.

You're mistaken if you think I've given a read on prism. Me saying I can't trust means the claim at face value. I think Spiffeh is scummy and the townreads there are bad/rushed VOTE: Spiffeh

Can you be a bit more specific on why Spiffeh is scummy/why his push on you is bad? 480 is what I see. Later it seems like you cite the differences in Titus v. Alisae from this game. Skimming through it you definitely had a more wall-style, but this was accounted for by Spiffeh in 456. He's specifically talking about the style of how you're choosing to nitpick and snipe from the sidelines.

Here's his quote from Titus v. Alisae:

The reason I’m cool with Maki/Kaito getting lynched has nothing to do with Dunn’s activity.

I think Dunn has been really nit picky and snipes at anyone really questioning their slot (Espy, Sherlock, myself), and I’m not really seeing him presenting reads or pressuring anyone in a way that looks like genuine gamesolving. There’s a lot of one off comments that aren’t translating to solid opinions and it looks more like busy work than anything else. I have only played with Dunn a few times but I don’t remember it being so hard to understand where his head is at.

This lines up really well with his comments this game.

I don't really know how to feel about Dunn atm but Spiffeh is very town.

I don't think the comparison is real from a wall-type hydra game to 4 posts here

[Dunnstral]

There's a lot of mildly suspicious slots that REALLY don't want to go mathblade, or won't discuss mathblade, but are a-okay going titus, so that means we go mathblade today

What is you ur read on titus? You also talked about math being survivalistic which battle mage has picked up, can you talk about where?

I have talked about it. They latched onto their scumread on me for minor things and then stuck to my wagon. That's sort of changed recently but they're still calling me scum

I've said I think Titus is sort of scummy

[Dunnstral]

if there was a tv drama starring mathblade as a detective, it would be a massively entertaining show. clearly it would be entitled something appropriately pithy like "The Traitor" :lol:

Your entire iso is voting LLD Dunn yourself or me.

LLD is conf town (much to my dismay as she will literally stop at nothing to elim me as she thinks I am the world’s shittiest town player I am an asset to scum and must die despite our conversation a year plus back. )
Yourself if you’re town is stupid.
Dunn likely was town and/or scum driven to avoid looking bad on my flip but is kinda Townie.

Why is your ISO content less?

Vote someone who will die today.

Did I misinterpret your last post where I was supposedly sitting on your wagon

Yes, I agree BM's iso is bad
Titus is also bad
I think sircakez is bad

I'd probably vote for these players today
lld, how confident are you right now?

Mastina not so much for me, but she's weird.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Sircakez

I prefer this to Titus but don't mind the Titus wagon either

lol Dunn has there ever been a game where you didn't say my ISO was bad and want to mis-elim me?

Kind of a good point

[Dunnstral]

The powers claimed kinda confirms LLD as mason much as I tried to avoid that so LLD likely doesn’t get shot. Hence the winkies as I was being sarcastic and hoping people doubted LLD as a mason not to run her up but to avoid being shot.

I find this hard to believe, it feels like you are backpedaling

[Dunnstral]

Expecting me to always play like it's day 2/3/4 in Tenet and I have a pt with cabd/cephrir/ffery/bork is unrealistic expectations, to say the least

Most of my posts are reactionary because most of the posts in the thread are talking about me, it's really that simple.

Bork, yes we are talking past each other. I'm trying to say that it's telling that people are hounding me but not focusing on math when math is making no sense, and also that math's reason for voting me is undefined, math went on to explain something about sircakez but not why I'm there

You guys don't think I want to hold an extended conversation with sangres/prism? I feel they keep bringing the same things up which I keep explaining.

[Dunnstral]

This is the absolute biggest Dunn scum tell I can think of.

At this point you're just making things up.

Otherwise can you back this up somehow?

[Dunnstral]

He realized I am not happening today.

Also if you really want to make it a 1v1 we can? You don't win this. I moved off because you reached out to me and I bought into the sort of same crowd pushing the both of us

[Dunnstral]

and didn't involve him digging to understand my thought process.

I don't scumread you and have no interest in your thought process

I'm focused on too many other things right now to get into fine details like that. There's too many other people I need to pay attention to.

[Dunnstral]

viewtopic.php?p=10224670#p10224670

Example meta very similar to this game.

What am I looking at here?

[Dunnstral]

I happen to think my play in that game looks nothing like my play in this game.

If you're pointing to just that post, I don't see the argument you're making BUT the fact that you're even looking there is +town I guess. This game is also almost 3 years old, by the way, I don't think it would be good meta even if it were accurate (and it's not)

[Dunnstral]

Sangres;

I'm definitely a player who thinks townreads can form too early in the game, when I see that happening I think players are being careless or not doing their due diligence or coming to conclusions too fast. That's all if they're town, which most people are, and I haven't hashed out whether this is something scum does more or what but I suspect it's pretty neutral. Do you really think you played in a way where you couldn't reasonable be scum - not just playing well, but playing average - when other players townread you?

That's what I was doing; you didn't see it in Tenet because I replaced into that game.

[Dunnstral]

And just saying to reevaluate later isn't how I operate.

I'm fine working with people I don't necessarily townread and working things out

[Dunnstral]

I'm scumreading Titus and Mastina.

I'm POE-ing Battle Mage.

Quiet is in this strange place where I think he's scum, I think he's going to get replaced, and and I think there's a really good chance a strong player could turn that slot around as either alignment and if that happens I sure hope they're town because I'll have trouble holding onto a read based on 8 posts.

I'm scumreading Battle Mage

I think quiet has a real decent chance of being scum just based on meta other people brought up about them being a new player and activity

Titus is sort of scummy but IDK

Mastina is neutral

[Dunnstral]

LLD - I know that you don't often like to talk about town reads, thought you sometimes will!, could you say something about why you have Dunn at 75% town?

Call it equal parts a desire to give them space to see more and something I've noted from recent games with them in which they have invariably flipped town each time.

It's not as high as others because I don't have the full confidence that Dunn is the exact same? Less active this game than I would expect, but I wonder if there's not other reasons for that.

In general I'm just not in favour of that being the kill today, and don't think any new info is learned by allowing dunn to undergo pressure.

Plus, I can leverage pressure on other parts of the game by denying that as an option and seeing whether they adapt or just flail.

You should temper your expectations, in the sense that expecting me to be more active isn't really fair if you look at my past games

The reason I'm meh on Titus elim is because I'm just not convinced that this is scum, I don't have anything other than their sort of weird play. Do we think they fake thinking they were hammered?

Mastina is being normal mastina in my eyes; I'm not seeing a special reason to elim her this game beyond the way she usually plays. I wouldn't call her towny, but yeah tunneling on one wrong flavor speculation is well within her town meta in my eyes

[Dunnstral]

Here I think he got outright overwhelmed and intimidated by the strength of the table as scum

I agree that he's playing this differently than the newbie y'all were in from some brief reading after it ended when the Discord was singing your praises, but the fact that this is an inactivity replace we're dealing w/ and not an actual replace out, and also considering that quiet's only really active period in this game was over a course of two days, I think muddies the waters considerably.

I don't see a world where I wouldn't want to give that slot a day.

Yes I agree with this

Now expand upon Dunn, BM, Titus, LLD, and you (Bell). The ISOs here have a unilateral focus on me. Almost no focus elsewhere. LLD is a known mason, and I know I am town. This tells me a majority of scum are likely in that pool because they aren’t discussing anywhere else with the exception of a few external posts by Dunn.

Less than half of my iso is about you

[Dunnstral]

@Dunstrall, Bork. Yeet targets?

I'm waiting on Nacho. TBH.
I am losing convinction on MB scum.

Town block RN is just Sangres, Spiffeh, LLD today. Which isn't good enough based on my experience in Tenet. If I want to win through PoE I need to solve faster tbh.

SirCakez, Mathblade, Spiffeh, Titus

That's where I'm at

Quiet slot can live to day 2 while we get somebody else - right now I think it's likely scum as well

[Dunnstral]

oh throw battlemage into my yeet target list too

[Dunnstral]

What am I 'slow rolling'?

I'm pretty sure I've made my thoughts clear. There's scum somewhere in mathblade/titus/sircakez/spiffeh/battle mage. Hopefully multiple scum.

[Dunnstral]

I just forgot about you being in the game, likely because you haven't actually contributed this day phase

[Dunnstral]

We have 17 pages and 24 hours remaining, we can stop with the theatrics about not wanting to post too much or scum ploys to make someone post a few extra times

And yes BM, that was directed at you, and no I don't think you've contributed much

[Dunnstral]

SirCakez, Mathblade, Spiffeh, Titus

the fuck are you doing off the titus wagon at this point in the game if you legitimately think this

I'm just getting the vibe from 1455 that titus wants to talk more about the reads that aren't legitimate scumreads (math, lld) than the people she's actually scumreading other than cakez. a lot of those other scumreads are heavily laced with plausible deniability

cakez/quiet take seems much ado about nothing to me; i thought cakez' point was pretty salient, that people attacking quiet are kind of doing it recently and therefore more relating to the lack of activity and less about really the content; titus should want to flip quiet here and not cakez because that entire point is predicated on cakez defending a buddy

I'm just less sure on her and there's other people I'd like to bronze more

Looking at that post I don't hate her reads, though I don't get why she's 'scumreading' me

And yes, I want to bronze sircakez today, primarily

[Dunnstral]

Alright; I think Mastina is town

[Dunnstral]

Also I'm townreading Pooky and sort of Tammy

[Dunnstral]

I wish I had kept my promise of playing video games, this is atrocious, the claim is fine (And when the "Flavor is NAI/Scum have fakeclaims" crowd was needed the most, they vanished...) and the votes on this are a giant scum/nullslot roll call. I maintain this even if Cakez flips scum.

I mean, I still think he's scum post-claim. Not because his flavor doesn't match (note: I don't know anything about the flavor) but because:

-He doesn't appear to have put the thought into this role that he would have as town
-The claim can easily be a scum role, so I'm not going to flip and say we shouldn't elim when he can still very well be scum regardless of role, or indeed even because of it

[Dunnstral]

Oh fuck it, I have it when people dance around shit and we've got enough claims out there.

I'm Mrs. Frederics, an x-shot artifact usage detector.

I've softed this a few places, and this was why my early game focus was on artifacts and rooting out liars.

A part of me thinks we don't work together on the same side, but maybe we do. This claim was probably dumb, but I figure I fit right in now.

We should definitely elim cakez today

And we should also use our last few pages wisely

[Dunnstral]

Someone tell me if it's -EV not to just let Cakez live and force scum to run artifacts or risk getting caught or something.

I don't want to vote for mastina or myself.

I think SirCakez role can easily be scum

I don't want to think about mechanical plays because we will probably move onto someone else who is town and always be wondering about sircakez

[Dunnstral]

I'd vote mathblade if necessary. I prefer SirCakeZ right now

I think Mastina's reaction under pressure was towny

[Dunnstral]

Why not use it on Bork?

actually yeah, do this so we can put this trident shit to rest

I don't think this is a good suggestion

Who here is doubting that you have the trident?

[Dunnstral]

Mod accounts have 63 posts total so we have more room than what we thought here

Sangres, will your hydra partner be here to give thoughts in the next 2 hours? I kind of liked Bork today.

Perhaps more pressing is the elimination for today, which we also need to figure out

[Dunnstral]

Mod accounts have 63 posts total so we have more room than what we thought here

Sangres, will your hydra partner be here to give thoughts in the next 2 hours? I kind of liked Bork today.

Perhaps more pressing is the elimination for today, which we also need to figure out

If Sircakez is scum and Titus is town, that would be interesting though.

[Dunnstral]

LLD, did you kill KTT?

[Dunnstral]

Vote:LLD

Feed me Artefact please.

Also... did anyone have their roles roleblocked last night? confirmably?

Not so fast.

I don't want lld to be given this artifact instantly

Let's review the facts:

-She had the last artifact, which was implied to be a vig
-There were two kills last night, and we don't know what her artifact did
-She voted 'wrong' yesterday
-Her mason claim is unconfirmed

[Dunnstral]

To be clear, I'm not saying she's necessarily scum, but I don't think we should feed all the artifacts to her without question. Give somebody else this artifact.

[Dunnstral]

I will out my mason right now and turbo power a Dunnstral bronze

I swear to god

You should step back and think if i'd do this as scum

If you're trying to bully me into handing you the artifact... it's not going to work

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Prism

I don't think mastina was bussing

[Dunnstral]

I am very sorry that something bad happened to you irl Day 1. This does not change the result. I do not care how much you sucked up to me Day 1, I do not trust your judgement.

cool

you're throwing and this game's town loss is on you

brb lookign for the most vig looking artefact

Can you explain how giving this artifact to somebody else is throwing?

[Dunnstral]

These artifacts have downsides too, realistically you should want somebody else to use them if you're a mason

[Dunnstral]

like i don't know why you'd want to give a power role to someone who isn't confirmed town, ever

You are not confirmed town from my point of view. That's why I'm saying slow down.

[Dunnstral]

Based on the way Mastina reacted with my wagon, I don't think sircakez is also scum

[Dunnstral]

Based on the way Mastina reacted with my wagon, I don't think sircakez is also scum

I think it's likely that Titus is scum here.

I also think it's Likely that DGB (quiet slot) is scum here.

KTT was likely to be the town vig shot if there is such a role (they were on sircakez), though could also be a scum kill

[Dunnstral]

Antagonizing lld isn't helping, but lld being an egomaniac and threatening to bronze anyone who dares suggest anything but absolute obedience regardless of alignment is also not helping

[Dunnstral]

Hey Dunnstral are you going to justify your bullshit scumread on me today?

No, I'm reevaluating based on the wagon

Of the mastina voters you hopped on the latest, I'm not sure how likely it is the wagons would have flipped if you hadn't done that

My thoughts for today are: 1 scum in math/titus <- probably titus

We said we'd give quiet slot a pass until day 2 <- it's day 2 now, we should bronze quiet slot

[Dunnstral]

I want to know what Tammy and Bork think reads-wise

[Dunnstral]

Have you guys who suspect me realized you've also been suspecting half of my poe all game as well?

You'll have to explain Pooky more.

[Dunnstral]

I am probably going to be an even worse Tyrant this day phase.
Sorry in advance.

What are you thinking?

[Dunnstral]

I am probably going to be an even worse Tyrant this day phase.
Sorry in advance.

What are you thinking?

Titus and Dunn Tmi'd by Mastina. Mastina had the right solution in front of her because Titus was town.
She weak defended you on purpose and tried to cover it up as the dunnstrall wagon being weak.

Prism town.
LLD town.
Sangres town.

Pooky, Cakez, up in the air. I don't think your two pokes are bad.

Can you further explain how you are seeing TMI on me/Titus?

[Dunnstral]

Math has been saying the same thing over and over again today

[Dunnstral]

The substantive issue is that Cakez is claiming he may not have pushed mastina, but at least he didn't push the counterwagon like Pooky (as he was the counterwagon)

Pooky takes issue with this higher standard and suggests Dunnstral WAS a scum driven counterwagon, which Cakez did push. Pooky is also misconstruing Cakez's claim to have "not do the scum counterpush" as "towncred for voting mastina", which is why he also winds up suggesting that the Dunn vote qualified.

Both of these are valid perspective imo. In a

single, condensed post not followed by 3 more in 5 minutes

, what am I missing here?

Well, let's take a look:

Afternoon Vote Count 1.15

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (2): quiet, Spiffeh
MathBlade (1): Battle Mage
Titus (5): SirCakez, borkjerfkin, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalBear, MathBlade
SirCakez (4): mastina, Dunnstral, Titus, Kitty Trauma Team
mastina (4): GreyICE, sangres, Bell, Prism

Not voting (1): Tammy


Mod notes: 69/85 pages used

Battle Mage is V/LA until Monday evening

Prodding GreyICE

Afternoon Vote Count 1.16b

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (6): quiet, MathBlade, SirCakez, Battle Mage, Spiffeh, Titus
Titus (3): borkjerfkin, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalBear
SirCakez (3): mastina, Dunnstral, Kitty Trauma Team
mastina (4): GreyICE, sangres, Bell, Prism

Not voting (1): Tammy


Mod notes: 76/85 pages used

Battle Mage is V/LA until Monday evening

I was a counter to all or any of Titus, SirCakez, mastina

[Dunnstral]

Afternoon Vote Count 1.17

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (4): quiet, MathBlade, SirCakez, Spiffeh
Titus (1): borkjerfkin
SirCakez (6): mastina, Dunnstral, Kitty Trauma Team, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalbear, Titus
mastina (5): GreyICE, sangres, Prism, Battle Mage, Tammy
Mathblade (1): Bell

Not voting (0):


Mod notes: 77/85 pages used

Battle Mage is V/LA until Monday evening

[Dunnstral]

I don't think you can argue Dunn was not a counter to Mastina and co at some points
My point with Pooky is that Dunn was not a counter at the prime late-stage moment where it was Mastina or me

Making all stupid options never happen is part of my job.

Please stop trying to make Pooky happy.

Dunn wasn’t an organic counter.

It was Dunn v Me then people left me and Dunn but Dunn wagon was just always a thing.

Afternoon Vote Count 1.15

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (2): quiet, Spiffeh
MathBlade (1): Battle Mage
Titus (5): SirCakez, borkjerfkin, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalBear, MathBlade
SirCakez (4): mastina, Dunnstral, Titus, Kitty Trauma Team
mastina (4): GreyICE, sangres, Bell, Prism

Not voting (1): Tammy


Mod notes: 69/85 pages used

Battle Mage is V/LA until Monday evening

Prodding GreyICE

Afternoon Vote Count 1.16

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (3): quiet, MathBlade, SirCakez
Titus (3): borkjerfkin, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalBear
SirCakez (4): mastina, Dunnstral, Titus, Kitty Trauma Team
mastina (6): GreyICE, sangres, Bell, Prism, Battle Mage, Spiffeh

Not voting (1): Tammy


Mod notes: 74/85 pages used

Battle Mage is V/LA until Monday evening

Afternoon Vote Count 1.16b

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (6): quiet, MathBlade, SirCakez, Battle Mage, Spiffeh, Titus
Titus (3): borkjerfkin, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalBear
SirCakez (3): mastina, Dunnstral, Kitty Trauma Team
mastina (4): GreyICE, sangres, Bell, Prism

Not voting (1): Tammy


Mod notes: 76/85 pages used

Battle Mage is V/LA until Monday evening

I can sit here quoting vc's all day

When mastina wagon grew, the people on mastina switched to try to eliminate me instead; these are the facts

[Dunnstral]

And you know what, yeah, I think spiffeh can easily be scum despite placing the hammer vote at the end of yesterday

All of BM/Spiffeh/Titus deserve scrutiny here

[Dunnstral]

it should be clear based on my stances at the end of the Day why I am singling him out over Tammy, but instead he tries to discredit my suspicion by deflecting onto Tammy.

@bork, who do you want limmed today and why? On top of everything I've stated above, I feel a lot of your posts today are surface level and I have no idea where your head is at.

I mean, your stances aren't always clear, that's why I'm calling them out and speculating. You latched onto something that I felt was underexplained by them and only now do I have any kind of justification about why you feel this way.

(I don't really want to make this about tammy either but what has she done in particular that screams town besides an early unprovoked claim, because otherwise she's just been kinda there)

My reads probably would sort into:

{LLD, Bell, Prism, Pooky, Math}
{GreyICE, Cakez}
{Spiffeh, Tammy, BM}
{Dunn, Titus, DGB}

All my lower tier stuff explained:
Dunn - my reason for townreading Dunn EOD yesterday evaporated - I actually thought he was the mason partner for LLD, but Dunn's interactions with LLD have made it pretty clear that this isn't the case. Otherwise, his progression on Mathblade kind of left me in a weird spot as I wasn't very satisfied with how it ended but I picked up on what I thought were softs in that I didn't want to pursue it anymore. Would again restate that I doubt Dunn is scum w/ DGB.

Titus - just kinda gross interaction with Mathblade throughout the game. I find it really hard to stomach that someone wants to continually move back to a policy elim when we have a gamestate that really is pretty sane so far. Math also seems pretty transparently town to me. Don't like this version of the Pooky push either - I can more see where Cakez is coming from even if I think he's being dense as fuck about it.

DGB - Dunno, just expecting something other than the entrance I got. Might imply Titus is town if flipped scum but I consider the error bars extremely wide on that. Was hoping to be able to put this higher up when the slot turned over but here we are.

BM - Hard to quantify, just kinda bad vibes with voting patterns crossed with I think an occasional salient post or two. Did kind of get on mastina before it was cool, so maybe that does count for something. I need a reread.

Tammy - Other than the claim there's just not much there for me? A lot of talk about her overall approach and a lot of hypotheticals but not a lot of stuff that I'm reading with like "yeah I can empathize with that take". Her level of effort is reasonably high when she's here but I'm having trouble finding anything concrete that I can latch onto in a lot of her posts.

Spiffeh - Wanted to save you for last because you've done some stuff I like and some stuff I don't. I feel like people who approach with the level of breadth you do are generally town, and yeah you're trying to kick stones around, but your engagement against still seems like someone who decided at the start of day he wanted to push on my slot because of the opening that ffery gave about it and the fact that I'm not hyper engaged at the moment.
Ultimately I was worried about the mastina votes, but that was something I was willing to deal w/ d2 and that flip I think gave me considerable info and is also why I'm not up the people's asses that I said I was going to be up at start of day if mastina were to have flipped town.
Can we drop the 'surface level' buzzword when describing what you actually don't like about my play here? That makes it utterly impossible to read into your motivations for calling me out here and honestly makes me not want to engage at all. Do you disagree with my points? Do you think I am overly simplifying things? Your suspicion is wrong, and pre-2528 based on imo a really simplistic "sangres kinda sorted suspected bork and sangres is now dead" (despite the fact that I was fucking heavily crumbing that I was going to visit them w/ something last night which by the way I fucking did and it sure was fuck wasn't with a kill)

And what do you think my reads are?

[Dunnstral]

My thoughts on bork list:

I agree that Spiffeh, BM, Titus, DGB are all suspect

I don't agree on Tammy but I don't have a strong townread there either

I think it's notable that Spiffeh came into today pushing you and me, and that their push isn't very good
Apparently he also has suspicion on BM and DGB slot but that hasn't come into effect today

BM still looks bad

Somebody said Titus is only talking about Mathblade being town and that's kind of right

DGB isn't doing anything and we had reason to believe the predecessor was scum lurking out

VOTE: Dripping Goofball

[Dunnstral]

Can we do one of those we flip Sircakez and if he flips town we flip Pooky type things.

Also no, this does not sound like a good idea to me. And is kind of weird

[Dunnstral]

Thanks Prism

[Dunnstral]

Hey Dunnstral

Of everyone here, you know best why I'm not feeling having reads and pushing them. It's very insulting being punished for being wrong.

Yeah. I am in *passive player mode* right now and a lot of this is ON YOU.

So, get outta of here with your shitty, scummy vote. You can't read me for diddly squat.

Speaking of players who can't read me for diddly squat, and whose VCA is so tragically wrong that it's sometimes considered yeet-worthy. Titus. Titus, your VCA blows chunks once again and you scumread me 80% of the time, and suspect me the remaining 20%. So, get outta here too with that rubbish. At least I have learned, the hard way, that your VCA being pure trash doesn't mean you're scum.

Prism. Remember that game where you did me a favor a couple of times? Hint hint I am town.

MathBlade got it right.

Don't AtE at me
And when you do, at least decide if you want to AtE or push me. You haven't explained why my vote is scummy.

I think your predecessor had a suspicious exit/contribution. I said I'd give it to day 2, nothing has changed.

[Dunnstral]

We need to know who the 4th member was Cakez

We need to know

[Dunnstral]

We need to know who the 4th member was Cakez

We need to know

[Dunnstral]

My gut reads are that Tammy and Bork are town

And what do you think my reads are?

was meaning to get back to this post here but why did you ask me this specific question because it feels like a non-sequitur to what i posted

It just feels like we have the same poe, except you've also thrown me into it

[Dunnstral]

It just feels like we have the same poe

I don't necessarily think that's indicative of a person being town

It's probably more indicative of a particularly weak scumteam that most people (town and scum) have in their poe

Not sure why you'd think I'd be bussing over me being town then

Not sure why you think I'd be scum at all, actually

[Dunnstral]

Not sure why you'd think I'd be bussing over me being town then

I'm not saying that - you came in with "What do you think my reads are". Why did you ask me that if not to imply I should be townreading you for it?

To put it bluntly, yes, you should at least not be scumreading me when we have similar reads on the rest of the players

[Dunnstral]

To put it bluntly, yes, you should at least not be scumreading me when we have similar reads on the rest of the players

this is just not the way I play and I'd just discount that as a reason to read me either way

I'm not attacking you

What you're doing isn't making sense to me

What is your fascination with me? Your read went from town to scum because you don't think I'm a mason, but what am I scum for?

[Dunnstral]

(and to be clear I scumread him)

Hey thanks for the heads up, I was wondering what your read on sircakez was

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral

- Very cranky, wastes a lot of posts on relative nonsense. Was willing to vote anybody yesterday, but was cagey about mastina. To wit, Dunnstral's #1060:

Yes, I agree

BM's iso is bad

Titus is also bad

I think

sircakez is bad

I'd probably vote for these players today
lld, how confident are you right now?

Mastina not so much for me, but she's weird.

I also don't like the "lld, how confident are you right now?" because that's some pretty sly abandonment of responsibility on LLD. If Dunn is scum; LLD is town.

This feels like a pretty aggressive misrep

[Dunnstral]

Sorry if DGB feels like I target them; I don't, I just don't see anything towny about their play here, there predecessor definitely site flaked but I still have problems with that, and also I don't like their current push on me

[Dunnstral]

I said gut town for Bork yesterday but I think I'm back to gut neutral after consideration

Here is a succint case for why they

could

be scum:

-They went out of their way to leave hints that they thought I was a mason. It's possible that he really though I could be mason and went on to kill somebody else because maybe my reads at the time were bad, or maybe they thought someone else needed to die, and he wanted to be able to point back at it and say that because I didn't die he was more likely to be town.
-When I argued that they should be seeing me as town they got defensive even though it wasn't meant as an attack on them; they defaulted to saying 'this isn't how you'd read me' instead of reevaluating (and indeed didn't reevaluate)
-Their read on me is weird. They can't really explain why I'm a scumread but repeatedly put me in their poe but don't really do anything with that read. I think there is at least one scum phoning it in and calling me scum.
-The dead guy thought they could be scum, which isn't a grand slam but they do have some familiarity with each other.

[Dunnstral]

I think mastina is the type of player to think "I'd townread x here as town, so I have to say I townread them" without considering the gamestate.

For example, when she called me town that threw me off, but I think she'd do that as scum just because she thinks she'd think that as town, and she's hyper-sensitive to deviating from that because she is paranoid others will catch her on that.

With that in mind, I think that looking for motives in her interactions is the wrong way to go about this.

[Dunnstral]

(big towntell given my experience with him where, to quote Wallows, his scum style both in strength and in weakness is best summarized as "Looking for a sense of relation/Where do people want me to be?")

Could this not explain his weird read on me?

[Dunnstral]

If you're getting physically ill because of this mafia game you should probably take a step back from it

[Dunnstral]

Current ordered preference: GI, DGB, Titus, Cakez, Dunn, Math, BM

Why GI?

[Dunnstral]

DGB lost me. I don't understand what is going on here at all. You've been playing Mafia for over a decade and you're still making posts like that? It has to be a joke. Or an act. How can you have played and experienced so much and then make a post like that?
it's not a good scum post, it's not a good town post.
What am I seeing?

AtE

[Dunnstral]

This is a tactical demand for a reset. Using AtE.
I don't think the emotions are real.

VOTE: DGB

I apologize if wrong DGB as I am essentially denying your feelings by saying I don't believe them. I'm not sure how to say this in a less insensitive way.

Well said, I agree with this

[Dunnstral]

The other mason outting today would be a bad idea

[Dunnstral]

Why do we have to hand off the artifact in the first few hours of the day?

[Dunnstral]

Now that I have the artifact safely in hand and don't have to worry about catfights I am very comfortable saying that literally everyone but Bell is getting reevaluated, I am a sore fucking loser who cannot stand being wrong

And Spiffeh is way up there as most likely to be outplaying me atm, and I am about to pore over every fucking game this dude has ever played onsite to find out. Grey/bork less likely imo but will get their time in the sun (Grey goes down because Titus is probably just scum over him)

Titus is probably going to be the vote today though

Very cool

[Dunnstral]

Did I miss a pr claim?

[Dunnstral]

I haven't considered that at all, I just did not think he was scum

[Dunnstral]

You guys are assuming spiffeh got their artifact by transfer, and not by a role or just because a specific artifact was meant to go to a specific place at a specific time

[Dunnstral]

^Going to assume this is out of scum range

[Dunnstral]

Sircakez role has been and will continue to be pretty useless

Somebody having an artifact doesn't make them scum, and it's unlikely that scum are going to straight up lie about having an artifact if cakez is town

[Dunnstral]

like i hate to be the 'show your work or i'm marking you wrong even though you got the right answer' teacher but that's an absurdly low bar you're setting

Would you post that at someone as scum?

[Dunnstral]

I'm working with the assumption that you're genuinely mad about being thrown into the poe repeatedly

[Dunnstral]

And why am I scum?

[Dunnstral]

There are people here who have spent that past week saying they should read into me more and just haven't and continue to call me scum

[Dunnstral]

I don't scumread notscience slot

[Dunnstral]

There are people here who have spent that past week saying they should read into me more and just haven't and continue to call me scum

Name names. Push these players. My being one of them after I got partway through Spiffeh is no surprise.

I am sick of you doing nothing the entire game then crying when you get scumread. If your entire ability to win games as scum requires you to 0 effort and give only the most baselevel reasoning as town, something is wrong with your playstyle.

VOTE: Dunnstral

Tough. I'm tired of you calling me scum all game and not being able to show why but I'm guessing you're not going to stop doing that?

[Dunnstral]

You said my logic was sound on elimming in Cakez/Titus/Dunn.
Your townreads want Cakez.

Why Not Science over someone in the PoE?

I think ns' opening is indicative of scum-him more than i am comfortable calling cakez scum. all the things you said are true but that doesn't necessarily mean we're getting a scumflip - it just means we're getting a high info flip.

whereas town notty comes in and does more than just kinda give weak RVS-phase-style tonal nuggets and shove off again, esp if he's been reading the game to catch up.
Does more with my slot than just return my high five - either expresses an early townread or says he doesn't have one and asks me why

VOTE: notscience

[Dunnstral]

Great! You're sick of it, time to do something about it. I'm scum shoving you and I suspect you can't and won't do shit about it except flop and aimlessly cry foul.

I don't think you or bork are scum, otherwise I'd be pushing you guys for your poor play I mentioned above.

[Dunnstral]

Bell where are you at with Dunnstral right now?

Null read. This is the least active and most disinterested I've seen him be. I'm not sure if that makes him scum or not. I don't know what his scum game looks like.

@Bork, sure.

I'm saving posts /s

[Dunnstral]

otherwise I'd be pushing you guys for your poor play I mentioned above.

this is just really weirdly phased. either it's scummy play or it's not.

Bad as in poor play, not evil/scummy play.

You getting hyper defensive about your alignment whenever I try to talk to you is still a thing, I see, and is the one thing that keeps making me think you can be scum

[Dunnstral]

Bell where are you at with Dunnstral right now?

Null read. This is the least active and most disinterested I've seen him be. I'm not sure if that makes him scum or not. I don't know what his scum game looks like.

@Bork, sure.

I'm saving posts /s

Are you fucking with me?

yes

[Dunnstral]

You getting hyper defensive about your alignment whenever I try to talk to you is still a thing

i'm not getting defensive - i just think that's circular reasoning for pushing people

What is circular reasoning?

[Dunnstral]

Bad as in poor play, not evil/scummy play.

[Dunnstral]

There's 3 scum and most people have less than 3 strong scumreads

My feeling is that someone is being overlooked in the cakez/spiffeh/titus area

[Dunnstral]

So just to be clear Bork you’re voting me because I’d be doing more if I’d read the game to catch up?

Because I really haven’t read that much. I read page one and posts since my replace in.

But anyways, excuses. I’m going to try to read at least day one tomorrow (something something proven track record of not being super available sundays something)

I kinda like Dunn’s read shift on me even if I don’t agree with borks reasoning for the read.

a not science wagon is literally push a lurker to avoid the PoE again.

I’ve been here for 24 hours and asleep or working for 22 of them

:(

OK, if you're this level of busy then I don't think the points brought up in 3768 mean anything

@bork I meant you can play bad or you can play scummy, but not both at the same time. This is a trap that Sircakez has fallen into again

VOTE: SirCakez

[Dunnstral]

Tl;dr he's voting me for lurking

[Dunnstral]

Nah I play too badly for that, this is the Dunn way

[Dunnstral]

I don't really scumread you anymore.

I think this game is ~annoying~. Mainly mathblade saying some variation of "it's cakez/Titus/Dunn", I think almost 200 times?

[Dunnstral]

And prism spending a week saying they need to read my iso, and their conclusion being a one-liner "it was bad" or something

[Dunnstral]

I never leave the conversation scumreading him, that is your and his misunderstanding.

[Dunnstral]

And no, I don't have solid scumreads.

[Dunnstral]

Tempted to just lol hammer so I don't have to catch up until I hopefully have time but I am not going to contribute to Math's gamethrow and Pooky's scuminess.

How exactly is having a PoE throwing?
And how is Pooky being scum by playing?

C’mon Titus. :(

I have a PoE too.
Your PoE is wrong and you killed all other scumhunting. That's a large through. In fact, it's the largest because you killed the ability for town to correct itself.

Pooky is scum because he's coasting, taking no responsibility and Cakez and Dunn are town.

Eyebrow-raising post

[Dunnstral]

Anyway, if the worst I've ever played is just lowposting instead of making any sort of mistake. Sure, I'll take that. It's a pretty big exaggeration, but sure.

[Dunnstral]

After mastina flip It became unlikely to me that you and cakez were scum together

And my read on cakez has changed a couple of times

You not aggressively pushing for my miselim helps with that

[Dunnstral]

Alright, it's time for some analysis on what happened earlier in the game.

First of all, Let's look back at day 1's final moments.

Afternoon Vote Count 1.20

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (2):

quiet

, Spiffeh

SirCakez

(7):

mastina

, Dunnstral,

Kitty Trauma Team

,

Lady Lambdadelta

, PookyTheMagicalbear, Titus, MathBlade

mastina

(7): GreyICE, Prism, Battle Mage, Tammy,

SirCakez

, borkjerfkin, Bell
Mathblade (1):

Sangres

Not voting (0):


Mod notes: 83/85 pages used (switching to post count here: 2078/2125 posts)

Battle Mage is V/LA until Monday evening
LLD is V/LA.

mastina and SirCakez are cross bussing, Spiffeh is the last unflipped player firmly parked outside of either scum.

So it's either Spiffeh or all scum are bussing right now - at this point, it's clear that one of the scum players are going to be eliminated.

Before this point, there is talk of Prism and Bell swapping their votes from mastina to SirCakez. Then, sangres moves onto mastina - Spiffeh instantly hammers mastina.

This hammer was a lot worse than people thought. Sircakez was a pr and mastina was a mafia goon, Prism and Bell were getting ready to vote out the pr, and it set Spiffeh up the next day to posture. Which he did do, by the way: 2198. And then he goes on to make this post: 2203 where he argues that myself, bork, dgb, titus, pooky alllook bad, and that Cakez should get the artifact. He then also points to bork again by bringing up sangres.

Let's go back a bit, let's look at the vote counts prior to this point, where were people before it became scum v scum?

Afternoon Vote Count 1.16b

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (6):

quiet

, MathBlade,

SirCakez

, Battle Mage, Spiffeh, Titus
Titus (3): borkjerfkin,

Lady Lambdadelta

, PookyTheMagicalBear

SirCakez

(3):

mastina

, Dunnstral,

Kitty Trauma Team

mastina

(4): GreyICE,

sangres

, Bell, Prism

Not voting (1): Tammy


Mod notes: 76/85 pages used

Battle Mage is V/LA until Monday evening

mastina is bussing already; I'm not sure why, but it's a thing, and we can remove that from the equation.
A spicy take is that she doesn't want to join a wagon that already has too many scum on it.

This is a large wagon on myself, SirCakez is on it.

Afternoon Vote Count 1.17

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (4):

quiet

, MathBlade,

SirCakez

, Spiffeh
Titus (1): borkjerfkin

SirCakez

(6):

mastina

, Dunnstral,

Kitty Trauma Team

,

Lady Lambdadelta

, PookyTheMagicalbear, Titus

mastina

(5): GreyICE,

sangres

, Prism, Battle Mage, Tammy
Mathblade (1): Bell

Not voting (0):


Mod notes: 77/85 pages used

Battle Mage is V/LA until Monday evening

This is the next votecount. At this point the votes are starting to move away from me and towards SirCakez/mastina, both scum, and this isn't a good gamestate for scum, they don't want this to happen.

LLD, Pooky, and Titus moved their votes from me to SirCakez. I'm thinking this is all town based on how it goes down.

Bell moves from mastina to Mathblade as the mastina wagon grpws. Notably a Mathblade wagon did have some hope of growing.

Mathblade and Spiffeh missed their bus and are stuck still voting for me here.

Bork is stuck still voting for Titus.

This was the deciding VC. At this point the votes are locked on scum.

In the next VC, Mathblade votes to SirCakez. Bork and Bell move to mastina. Spiffeh continues to try to get people to vote for me.

-----

Before I move on to my next point, why did sangres and Kitty Trauma Team both die on night 1?
I believe if one of these kills way done by town, now is the time to claim it.

Otherwise we can assume it was done by scum. Notably, LLD was the one who got the first artifact, so it wasn't because of that.

Also, 3293 needs explanation today.

-----

Remember how I asked why we had to pick the artifact right away, like it was a race? Apparently the answer was that scum had a thief and didn't care who got the artifact, because they were never in contention to get it themselves and had a chance to steal it.
3223

Yeah, that's been feeling awkward all game. On day 2 and day 3 multiple players expressed that they wanted to 'get it over with' as if it wasn't important. With recent flips, that is something that is scummy.

Here, let me make it more explicit, because I know you guys appreciate when names are named:

Battle Mage - 2175, Pooky - 2222, Bell - 3216, Titus - 3218.

Also notable is 3223 from SirCakez.

-----

Sircakez had no artifacts, so whoever he checked (which he could have lied about, in the case of unflipped scum partners) had none, or he used them and we never noticed. I don't believe anybody has claimed to have had their artifacts taken from them.
Of note, Prism claimed to have sent an artifact to Bork on night 0, yet scum had little interest.
2069 is bork asking for the pr to be used on himself, maybe it would be too on-the-nose if it was stolen away.

Related to the above, wasn't there somebody who was calling for an artifact mass claim? But I can't find it.

And speaking of his claim, I was right in 2038.

The people who argued similarly were:

Pooky - 2002
LLD - 2005
Tammy - 2024 + claim
sangres - 2012
Titus - 2051
MathBlade - 2066

The players who were wrong, and were arguing that his claim or play was towny, or that he should be kept alive, are:

Prism - 2031
Spiffeh - 2033
Bell - 2046 (but he votes for Sircakez in 2055)
bork - 2060, 2064

-----

borkjerfkin analysis:

I suspect that people are going to come into this day and point fingers at borkjerfkin. It makes sense.

In post 2570 he posts a reads list with myself, Titus, DGB at the bottom. Two of those are wrong for sure, I'm leaning wrong on Titus as well based on associatives with scum.

His explanation for the Spiffeh vote is that he entered the day wanting to push himself. While this is technically true, Spiffeh also came in swinging at myself and Titus. This isn't a scumread, just a criticism of his narrow-minded play at this point.

The above point and 3406 makes me think not scum with with Spiffeh.

3677 and 3680 and 3704 feels unaligned with SirCakez

I agree that Titus doesn't look like scum here.

The move to notscience doesn't really detract from this enough to make me want to eliminate here.


Spiffeh analysis:

I talk about it above, the mastina hammer is negative points. The posturing after is a lot of negative points. Everything he's pushed thus far looks worse in light of what we know now.

I'm not an advocate of moonlogic vca but it's pretty plain to see that his movements this game have been scummy; trying to protect scum at nearly every opportunity. He's open wolfing in every aspect except 'tone' and we need to get him out of here today.

My analysis before this point was unbiased by the way, Spiffeh just really does stand out as scummy in most of these places.


Battle Mage analysis:

He claimed miller on day 2
3483 is poor analysis on his part; not admitting it looks bad because someone else knows you got it.
He votes for Titus in 3294, then dives into a conversation about whether someone who received an artifact was lying, then calls Cakez scum before eventually voting him for unclear reasons, then last minutes tries to get the notscience wagon going.
It's notable that he has about as many posts as me but I'm the one being labeled as "inactive and disinterested" with no mention of him from Bell.

GreyIce/NotScience analysis:
This slot was legitimately scummy. I'm just going to point to some posts I see as bad:
2260 - Sircakez was scum so this was wrong
2270 - Scummy fanning of flames
2274 - Scummy backing off before angering LLD while not helping with the artifact vote
2285 - A Pooky vote is scum motivated here, and probably wrong
2404 - Hard defense of SirCakez. Pushing a counterwagon.
2405 - Easy stance to take and he's making a show of it
2617 - Bad argument and I feel like we learn a lot.
2653 - Prism is onto something here.

Up to this point, this slot is meh at best, can easily be scum at worst.

Notscience comes in and pushes for Sircakez at a time where it mattered which is town points.

-----

Other quick thoughts (not analysis):

Pooky is probably town, and I say we send the artifact there today
Prism is still probably town
Bell is weird, there are a lot of things I didn't like above from Bell in my unbiased look above even though I haven't thought it was him this game. He is tunneling on Math, and I'm not sure that that is correct at this point.
Tammy can't be written off as town for their claim; remember that this claim came out when the two wagons were both on scum, so even if sort of cc'd SirCakez, it can't be ruled out that it was an act.

[Dunnstral]

swing and a miss, dipshit

What is this directed at?

Over the course of Day 3 and Night 3, Bell targeted Spiffeh.

OK, so what does this mean?

[Dunnstral]

i'm dead at the end of N4 unless cured

ok.
So that's extra killing power, and there was also extra killing power on night 1.

It can't all be scum-aligned killing power.

My guess is that a townie got overzealous on the cakez flip and poisoned you, and the first two kills were scum-aligned

[Dunnstral]

I'm not sure why you're being snappy with me. I didn't poison you.

[Dunnstral]

Spiffeh almost certainly is the poisoner based off the interactions with Bell. It's fine.

I don't feel great today but I'll have something useful to claim w/ the artifact later, want to wait

My working assumption is scum had a killing artifact N1 and used to double it.

Oh. Wait.

The artifact spiffeh received was the poison?

That changes things, since it was handed to him by town. That also explains how scum knew he was the mason, by the way.

[Dunnstral]

I still think Pooky's the mason. Bell just had a role that allowed it.

what

[Dunnstral]

We should be eliminating Spiffeh today.

[Dunnstral]

Pedit: Bell's dead? I didn't see a flip?

You didn't check to see who died?

[Dunnstral]

We should be eliminating Spiffeh today.

it's possible that you were right initially - spiffeh is overzealous town that made a judgment call based on his personal reads
but if math is scum, well, that changes a lot and gives potential scum motivation for it

I was working with the angle that these are artifacts scum started with instead of being handed, because I thought the mason still had most of the artifacts.

If spiffeh was just handed it and given a pool to work with, I don't think he'd scum claim by targeting someone towny because there are hints in thread that bell gave something to spiffeh

[Dunnstral]

@dunn if you want to chat about anything I’m around. I read your wall but prob need another reread before I’m ready to go into my thoughts more

Ninja-
I still think Titus is scum

Why is no one talking about bm trying to derail Cakez at the end of the day

I very briefly mentioned this. But yes, BM goes from Titus to Cakez to NotSci

[Dunnstral]

If anybody is town and killed somebody on night 1, now would be a good time to claim that

[Dunnstral]

Notsci pushing for sircakez at a critical point yesterday makes me think they are less likely to be scum

[Dunnstral]

Notsci pushing for sircakez at a critical point yesterday makes me think they are less likely to be scum

uh what cakez was pretty much in the coffin at that point bro

He only had 3 votes before and people weren't voting him

[Dunnstral]

SCUMREADS ON SPIFFEH WILL NO LONGER BE TOLERATED AT THIS TIME

Of course.

That's what I said, right? We should be voting for Spiffeh today?

VOTE: Spiffeh

[Dunnstral]

Afternoon Vote Count 3.05

Afternoon 2 will end in (expired on 2021-03-24 18:37:50)

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 votes to Bronze

Titus (1): SirCakez
borkjerfkin (1): Spiffeh
SirCakez (4): PookyTheMagicalBear, MathBlade, Battle Mage, Bell
notscience (2): borkjerfkin, Dunnstral
Dunnstral (1): Prism

Not voting (3): Tammy, Titus, notscience

Mod notes:
25/60 pages used


This will be a pagetop when I remove my earlier one, rules are for other backup mods!

oh I just realized I voted Prism in that post oops
I meant to vote Dunn
I was talking about sheeping Prism's vote

VOTE: dunnstral

VOTE: notscience

Start of wagon on a suspect. Thank you. I'll have to take a backseat on comments until tonight due to court. I'm also dealing with extensive court and real life drama. So please bear with my demotivated ass. I'm still going to try.

hi i'm on p26 and just was curious why cakez is still alive

OK, It was 4-3-2 when Notsci started pushing Cakez

So I guess it's not as good as i thought it was

[Dunnstral]

I'd prefer to vote for Prism or Pooky for the artifact, then

UNVOTE:

[Dunnstral]

My useless theory:

Tammy was silenced because she would be one of the few defending me today and I was the scum designated mis lim
Prism seems like a decent target but as one of the only players defending scum!bork the scum team thought Prism would be valuable in saving him

I'm pretty sure she was targeted by the snowglobe, which bell should have gotten from LLD.

[Dunnstral]

It wasn't the snowglobe. Bell never silences her and he died with it in his inventory, ie. Likely unused

I was thinking it had another positive effect along with being silenced.

But if it was in inventory, I guess it wasn't that.

VOTE: Pooky

[Dunnstral]

When Tammy cc'd Sircakez, mastina was the only other viable wagon

[Dunnstral]

I haven't used any artifacts yet

[Dunnstral]

How does your role imply a gunsmith?

[Dunnstral]

Voting bork doesn't kill him any harder

VOTE: Battle Mage

[Dunnstral]

Also millers don't show up as guilty to gunsmiths.

[Dunnstral]

i can't quote my role PM obviously, but it implies there is a gunsmith and/or standard cop (or artifacts which serve those functions).

it doesn't say anything about a PT Cop, so no idea what result I show to them.

How does your role imply a gunsmith?

Also millers don't show up as guilty to gunsmiths.

lol seems like your original question was pretty disingenuous then.

Nah you messed up your claim

You implied that it says something about gunsmith in the role pm rather than just your interpretation. If you were a miller, it wouldn't, or your role would be something like universal miller.

[Dunnstral]

How does your role imply a gunsmith?

i'm not sure what you're trying to ask here, besides pushing me to quote it? i show up guilty to gunsmiths, which implies there is a gunsmith. :roll:

[Dunnstral]

I think this is a particularly bad argument for BM being town

[Dunnstral]

Why?

Sometimes scum just don't concede, you're reading too far into it. I also think it's unlikely that they would have conceded this early, even if it's them the game isn't 100% lost

I'm becoming aware that tammy probably has some sort of guilty on bork and that bork has nothing more to argue being both guiltied and poisoned.

So far we're 2 for 1 with people who have grossly pushed me and refused to reevaluate being scum vs town.

[Dunnstral]

ESPECIALLY if tammy actually does have a guilty on bork- he is the very person I am referencing here who refuses to concede. He makes town earn their win.

Why do we think Tammy has a guilty on bork?

Also I definitely have not looked at Cakez associatives yet even though I want to, I hope I do that before days end (I know we have time but I'm lazy)

Still plan to sheep Pooky unless I find something super juicy!

Because Tammy is voting Bork despite him likely dying tonight.

Tammy if you think Bork will die tonight
Vote Bork once.
If you think he won’t vote Bork twice.

And if you have information on Bork having an artifact that we should eliminate before the night phase, switch your vote to me

[Dunnstral]

And if you have information on Bork having an artifact that we should eliminate before the night phase, switch your vote to me

This, otherwise it makes the most sense to see if he dies over the night