Warehouse 13: The Mafia Game (Game Over)

[mastina]

(As a reminder: for the rest of the month I am V/LA every Friday/Saturday. In this case, I've still got ~10 hours of work that has piled up since Friday that I've been unable to finish and my intention is to get into the mafia games I wasn't already playing once I get through that circa 10 hours, which should be either Sunday or Monday, so in effect, I am V/LA until Monday.)

[mastina]

For the love of god please tell me y'all didn't eliminate this before I had the chance to get caught up.

(It's coming soon, probably tonight; I'll be rather miffed if D1 is over before I bloody well get a chance to so if it's literally D2 before I get to post content, it's literally y'all's fault.)

[mastina]

Alright, hold me accountable: last delay, I am promising.

I have not gotten through the Friday responsibilities, but I have ~25 minutes left on them. I am ordinarily incredibly busy on Tuesdays but I've neglected this game for too long; if I don't produce content before I go to bed tomorrow (keep in mind, I go to bed at like 6 am every night so that's basically 24 hours from now), wagon me, eliminate me, I'll have deserved it.

So hard deadline there; if I don't produce significant game content (and I'll even let you be the judge of what is significant!) by 24 hours from now, vote my ass.

[mastina]

Greetings, Gentlebeings!

VOTE: Spiffeh

Hi!

Town.

I'm so excited to not care what any of you think about me

Town?

Will be back in like 5+ hours please don’t spam the thread people.

Scum?

VOTE: Prism

VOTE: spiffeh

Scum.

page count limit is a genius move, but I don't really share the level of concern from Mathblade - 85 pages is MORE than enough for Day 1 in any game. also what is post 8?

Battle Mage.



VOTE: SirCakez

[mastina]

I think Prism is scum btw

Town. <3

I have a question. Anyone have any idea how we bronze scum? If artifacts are good to pass to town, then what's stopping scum from just bronzing whoever gets the artifact and we get screwed?

Town?

Math are you also scum lol

LLD's probably gonna be furious when she sees I agree with at least two of her initial scumreads.

[mastina]

VOTE: LLD
im ready to speedyeet mathboy as soon as the real game starts

Town. (Only reason Pooky would ever be scum here is "too town to be town", but fuck that fallacy, he's town. )

Mala is probably town.

An early read on me doesn’t sit right.

Town.

[mastina]

This seems like a good time for a readslist!

Lady Lambdadelta
Kitty Trauma Team (hydra of Malakittens and kuribo)
PookyTheMagicalBear
sangres (hydra of fferyllt and Nachomamma8)
Tammy
Bell

Titus
Spiffeh

Battle Mage
borkjerfkin
GreyICE
quiet

Dunnstral

MathBlade

Prism
SirCakez

Locktown, lean town, null, nullscum, lean scum, scumread.

[mastina]

I think Spiffeh town BM scum Prism null LLD scum lean Cakez is prob town but scum in a very minor circumstance so not considering it. If I am right then Titus is town by proxy.

Scummy reads

Scratch the scunread, Dunn's town.

quiet is aggressively ambivalent (which is to say, one post rapidly swaying from definitely-scum and definitely-town, hard to lock down as one of those and not the other).

Got exactly one thing that I don't expect to have, yes, although no indication where I got it from. Are you the character pictured w/ that item if I look it up on the wiki? If so it's adorable you picked me considering my own flavor

Town.

Lady Lambdadelta
Dunnstral
Bell
Kitty Trauma Team (hydra of Malakittens and kuribo)
PookyTheMagicalBear
borkjerfkin
sangres (hydra of fferyllt and Nachomamma8)
Tammy

Titus
Spiffeh

Battle Mage
GreyICE
quiet


MathBlade

Prism
SirCakez

Locktown townread null scumread scum.

[mastina]

Just popping in to try and catch up (shockingly busy weekend); but doesn't scum know, or at least have some insight? Don't scum get to pick between two, choose one, the second one goes up for vote? Don't think that particularly changes my view on Prism, which I will need to update from the last 6 pages, but scum should know or at least have some insight on all artifacts that get put in front of us, no?

It's not strong but by gut the ambivalence has been broken in favor of scum.

[mastina]

*Checks Mastina's ISO*
Crap, no easy scumread. Dammit. Uh, does Lucrita's comb kill someone? Because I'm not down with killing LLD. If not, this is a snoozefest, wake me up when there's some fucking blood. I don't play wank off pregame sessions.

Okay so I THINK this is GreyICE as town so I can enact the LLD-GI strategy:

Lump them both into the townbin unless one of them says they have a scumread on the other, soooooooooooooo:

Lady Lambdadelta*
Dunnstral
Bell
Kitty Trauma Team (hydra of Malakittens and kuribo)
PookyTheMagicalBear
borkjerfkin
sangres (hydra of fferyllt and Nachomamma8)
Tammy
GreyICE*

Titus
Spiffeh

Battle Mage


quiet

MathBlade

Prism
SirCakez

Locktown townread null lean scum scumread scum.

[mastina]

i'm townreading too many people

Honestly this is a game going to be won by townreads and mutual townblocs being formed, so this is not a problem.

[mastina]

spiff how do you feel about this teamsolve: Titus/

Mathblade/Cakeboi

/Borky

Well 2/4 aint bad!

[mastina]

Quite possibly the towniest town who ever towned

Honestly not wrong.

I actually think you're probably my strongest non-LLD townread, which would be:
Lady Lambdadelta*
PookyTheMagicalBear
Dunnstral
Bell
Kitty Trauma Team (hydra of Malakittens and kuribo)
borkjerfkin
sangres (hydra of fferyllt and Nachomamma8)
Tammy
GreyICE*

Titus
Spiffeh

Battle Mage


quiet

MathBlade

Prism
SirCakez

[mastina]

why haven't you called me scum yet?

Because the only reason I have to call you scum is "too townie to be town" because you're radiating town energy like I've never seen before.

You said it yourself; you're the most obvtown you've ever been--literally the ONLY possible reason I'd have to EVER think you scum is that you've never been this town when town; you were even less town as the IC in Pooky v FL, you're more town this game than you were when you were literally conftown.

I'm not inclined to believe in "too townie to be town", because it doesn't look like you're trying to look town without being town; you legit feel like town.

Really? 152 made me go from nullscum to locktown?

Yup! You went from not posting (possible scum indicator) to posting good solid content that looked highly town-indicative to me.

So I find it weird Mastina’s reads match mine about almost midpoint through the morning but yet I am scum.

I don't see you voting Prism, do I?

[mastina]

Yaknow I really wanted people to ask me about Prism so I could do this sooner but I actually don't feel like waiting as a reactive thing so I'mma be proactive and put this out.

I actually have a fairly compelling case for why I think Prism is scum here.

First I want to preface this by saying I'm intentionally playing more abrasively. As mentioned before, diversity is nice and I'm tired of playing friends after Iceland.

1: Nine times out of ten, a player saying this is going to be scum. Deliberately altering your playstyle in a game with multiple players intimately familiar with your playstyle and justifying it in advance is a common scum ploy. (Heck I can even back this up with a rather notorious example if you'd like, but suffice to say, this is a real tell.)

2: Nothing Prism has done this game has felt town. Quite the opposite in fact.

3: I believe Prism's flavor claim of being HG Wells--I do not believe HG Wells would be a VT.

4: I believe HG Wells started with the trident. I do not believe HG Wells started with it as town; I believe it was a scum artifact that Prism is trying to get towncred for.

5: I believe the flavor claim of being HG Wells--I do not believe that makes the claim town. Everyone who watched the show probably remembers how HG Wells ended up, as a retired warehouse agent more or less...but did they forget that HG Wells spent

an entire season

as THE series Big Bad? Whose opening episode on the show was

killing the series' long-established Big Bad

? Not out of heroism, but to show how she was eviler and more insane than the first Big Bad? (Whole, sorting algorithm of evil, thing; she killed the previous big bad to show that she was a worse threat than the previous big bad.)

In fact, HG Wells is one of only three Big Bads I can actually remember. (I know there were more than three, pretty sure, but she sticks out to me as one of the three real, non-imaginary-in-your-head Big Bads. The other two being the one she killed and the final Big Bad.)

In other words I think that Prism is a scum HG Wells, who is not a VT, and who started with the flavor-appropriate trident, and passed it on for cheap towncred.

[mastina]

Not gonna lie: I really don't feel like playing mafia today, but I can't in good faith justify not doing so, especially given what will be happening this weekend. (Friday/Saturday are the last days of my lifeguard recert but I am expecting the fallout to last into the week after--after all, last Friday's fallout was only mostly solved by yesterday.)

(Also, unrelated: my right index finger is badly hurting whenever I type using it or whenever I click using my mouse. I get a sharp pain whenever pressing down using it, feels like some sort of nerve or tendon or something on the top part of my finger, so that also makes today suck.)

Mastina why do you scumread me despite making the same arguments as me?

Well basically: until you began to commit to the Prism push, I thought it was possible you were scumbuddies with Prism, distancing without committing to a hard-bus.

I'm now more of the opinion that there's a maximum of one scum between {you, Prism}, but individually I see a lot of your scumgame in this game, so it's not guaranteed that it's Prism. There's a lot of things which I see from you which look like scum, and if my scumread on Prism were wrong, you'd move to pretty much lockscum. But if my scumread on Prism is right, then in spite of thinking your play looks like scum you'd move to locktown.

2: Nothing Prism has done this game has felt town. Quite the opposite in fact. [Points 3 on are all scum because flavor]

Thanks, very specific. I am scum for flavor and for signaling that the meta shift was intentional. Somehow this is not a facetious strawman.

Correct, but you left out the point of you having done nothing that's town.

That might not seem like a point, but it

is

--in a game which is self-evidently being solved by townblocking and thus poe is a bitch that will kill all the scum...

...Doing nothing which is town...

...Is, inherently...

...Automatically scum.

Since when do you write cases?

Combination of, 1: familiarity with the flavor (albeit rusty, I watched the show live and caught every episode as it aired but haven't rewatched the show since then and it's been like 10 years since the show was ran), 2: being ~inspired~ to post yesterday, 3: having finished in a fraction of the time I expected for catching up (there was a lot less comment-worthy than I thought), 4: boredom, with it being too soon for me to go to bed, and 5: me not wanting to forget when someone would inevitably ask me why Prism is a scumread of mine--after all, while having my other scumreads south of the null line is in line with thread consensus, having Prism there runs contrary to it so it was only a matter of time before someone asked me about it.

I was planning on waiting until that inevitable question of "Why is Prism a scumread?", but I was afraid that by the time someone did, I'd have forgotten the case; it was already sounding, by the minute, less and less coherent and cohesive so I was terrified that if I didn't write and post it

now

, by the time someone asked, I'd go, "...I, uh...don't remember but I SWEAR it was good, promise!".

[mastina]

Anyway, I really don't like mastina's flavor-case. It takes a cartoonish oversimplification of HG to call her a baddie IMO, given how evil and twisted the antagonists of that series are.

You apparently are forgetting that HG Wells's goal was

literally to destroy the world

, and that, through outwitting, outmaneuvering, the heroes, through manipulation, deceit, experience, and sheer ruthlessness, almost succeeded. And the only thing causing her to have not succeeded was Myka talking her out of it; Myka, in of herself, couldn't stop HG Wells, because HG Wells had

won

.

During her tenure as an antagonist, she WAS genuinely evil and twisted. She was sympathetic (tho that's not a trait unique to her as an antagonist; I recall the first Big Bad was also fairly sympathetic especially near the end), and more sympathetic than most villains, and the parallels of her and Myka did lead to her redemption (similar to how, had she not outright murdered the first Big Bad, it was possible his parallels to Artie could've led to his potential redemption), but she WAS a villain for a full season, and thus calling her town for what she ended up being at the end is a mistake.

I happen to believe, given the flavor and mechanics of the game, that it is more likely she is scum than that she is town.

It's almost as bad as calling Artie a likely scum role because of what using Magellan's Astrolabe did to him.

And why do you think that

isn't

a possibility?

Sure, it ultimately is penguin's decision, it's ultimately penguin's choice, penguin_alien very well may have opted not to do so and if so there would be reasonably good reasons for it, because Artie wasn't a villain for all but one season.

But it is ultimately penguin's decision, and Artie very well

could

be a villain, specifically thanks to a flavor justification OF using what Magellan's Astrolabe did to him. He, Artie, literally killed one of the supporting, borderline-main-characters, characters, one of the first to die in the show and one who was literally irreplaceable thanks to their unique talent. He orchestrated a bunch of very bad things that happened thanks to that artefact's influence, and was, essentially, thanks to the delusions/brainwashing of that artifact, essentially the (unwitting) Big Bad of a full season.

You can make the argument either way--Artie could be town for his overall presence as a hero, or Artie could be scum for his tenure as an (unwitting) Big Bad-tier villain who did absolutely atrocious acts.

If someone does end up claiming to be Artie, I would do the obvious: judge whether they are more likely to be town or scum off of their claimed role and crossreferencing it to the game's mechanics AND the flavor backing it. If I thought that it was more likely Artie was scum, I would vote him; if I thought it was more likely that this was Artie as town, I would defend him.

And that's true of Prism. I understand the flavor behind why HG Wells would be town--I am also intimately familiar with the flavor behind why she would be scum. And I am judging the claim of Prism being HG Wells and whether they are more likely to be town or scum off of their claimed role and crossreferencing it to the game's mechanic and the flavor backing it.

And it makes a LOT more sense for Prism to be scum starting with the trident than it does for Prism to be town starting with it.

Tell me: during what period in the show does HG Wells own the trident? Is it during her time as a hero, or a villain?
Tell me: during the pregame, which faction do we know started with artifacts from the game mechanics?
Tell me: on the show, was the trident an artifact used by the heroes or an artifact used by the villains? (Okay this one I admit I don't remember the exact answer to but I remember at least one villain who used it.)

[mastina]

@Mastina

Can you elaborate on your early read of Tammy as town?

In the part of the Tammy post you

didn't

quote, you have the answer:

If you read me based on how I looked at the game, explained my reads, or those things that are mindset tells, those still apply.

I am townreading Tammy for how she looks at the game, explains her reads, and her mindset during this game.

She's radiating town energy in a way I don't think she can as scum.

One is the point against them saying that they're being more abrasive this game on purpose and your argument is that 9 times out of 10, that comes from scum. However, you called my first post town, and my first post talked about meta and how some of my meta didn't apply anymore.

There's a fundamental difference between "Hi I am a player who has been active onsite and I am deliberately choosing to be different this game" (Prism) and "Hi I am a player who has been inactive onsite and I am probably very different to how I used to be, albeit not consciously so" (You).

I don't think for a second, the mods make this game breakable by flavor, and if scum Prism was given that as a fake claim, probably, which means it wasn't meant to be alignment indicative anyway.

It not being breakable by flavor and it not being innately hard-alignment-indicative does not mean that, when crossreferenced and combined with setup spec based off of known mechanics and known reads, you can't generate a read.

[mastina]

And equally I could say that posting "no content now, I'll catch up soon promise!" Is a scumtell, because, well, it is.

Eh, I don't think it is. It can be for specific players, yes, myself among them (tho given as how this is not the only game I was neglecting you can be pretty damn well assured that in this case it wasn't one even tho I am quite aware of how the tell can apply to me but obviously I can't elaborate here as much as I would prefer to), but in general I don't think "no content, will catch up later" is a scumtell.

you've been on this site for how long? you know how flavor -> role mapping generally works in that it's not usually reverse engineered with that kind of brush
that character goes in the bucket of "things town gets / scum gets as fakeclaims" and not "things scum gets"

It is specifically because of my experience that I can see that flavor rolemapping trajectory as a scum realclaim, disguised as a fakeclaim of being a town realclaim.

We don't know how the scum's fakeclaims are structured. If there's a character who's obviously and unambiguously a scum flavor and they are scum, I'd imagine their safeclaim is of a different character flavor, sure. But if a character's flavor is not clearly scum and in fact can easily be town, what stops the mod from having their safeclaim be the same role flavor as their real role, just from their tenure as a hero rather than a villain?

To go to sangres's Archie example--if Archie were a scum flavor (due to his time corrupted), why would the mod need to give Archie a safeclaim of a flavor of a different character, when Archie as a safeclaim flavor during his tenure as a hero is arguably a better claim?

Or, hey.

Even if the mod did give the scum fakeclaims of a different flavor. Again, let's go to sangres's Archie example. If Archie were scum with a fakeclaim of (some random character from the show), why can't the scum, with Archie as their real flavor, decide to discard their (some random character from the show) safeclaim flavor and invent their own realclaim with Archie due to knowing Archie's a hero more than he isn't?

Same applies to Prism: why can't Prism, as scum, with a scum flavor of HG Wells, yet a fakeclaim of (some random character), decide "screw claiming (some random character), I wanna claim HG Wells because I know flavorwise that's plausibly town"?
Why can't Prism, as scum, with a scum flavor of HG Wells (during her tenure as a villain), have a legit fakeclaim of...HG Wells, during her tenure as a hero?

Prism has already admitted to being familiar with the flavor and knowing that their claim is not one that is, inherently, town.

And from mechanical clues combined with indicators from play, I think that this is a scum claim. I recognize why it could be town, but the circumstantial clues point to it being scum.

she saved Myka

can't be all that bad then huh mastina?

Your lack of flavor knowledge is showing; I am fairly certain that when she saved Myka, it was part of her scheme to manipulate Myka during a time she was trying to position herself in a way where she could acquire the trident for the aforementioned world-destroying that she basically succeeded at (if not for Myka talking her down from it). I admit that my memory isn't perfect from that season, but I distinctly recall that at least one of the times she 'saved' Myka, it was explicitly part of her Evil Plan.

[mastina]

someone talk to me about the game, something interesting and fresh.

I mean I wasn't in the game for 37 pages so I am inherently interesting and fresh compared to those who were, but I'm mastina so something tells me the offer doesn't extend to me.

Oh, but I will happily flashwagon Mastina to death if people want. Cause she apprently got time to hyper post in other games but not the time to do anything except suck horrendously in this one

I can only post in one game at a time, LLD. I make my rounds in each game. The order I do so is basically up to my whims, essentially random, but once I am IN a game and playing it, I will continue to be caught up and active in that game.

I am here now, because I am making my daily rounds and this game is here...second I think? It could be first tomorrow or it could be third tomorrow or it could be fourth tomorrow, who the fuck knows, I certainly don't. But the order in which I choose to attend to a game is not alignment indicative. Nor is posting in one game, being thought of as suspicious in a different game for posting in that one game, then showing up in that different game and posting there after said suspicions are aired.

When I am in more than one game, ALL of them need my attention. But I can only attend to one at a time. So long as each game gets attended to, I have done my job in each of them. The order I do so is subject to my whims and what I fancy, which is often influenced by my mood behind the screen--in the example of today for instance, I very much don't really want to be posting today, but I decided that I needed to post today in spite of my lack of desire to do so. When not in the mood to post today, posting in a game where I don't have many thoughts to vocalize (this game) wasn't how I felt like starting my mafiascum day.

But obviously this is toeing a sacred line so I shouldn't really expound on this further, but it SHOULD be self-evidently true even without me doing so.

[mastina]

Hey Mastina that’s a lot of words for what is likely a shit read and not talking about what’s going on here.

It's far from a shit read.

It's the read I feel I most need to explain. I don't need to explain my SirCakez scumread (tho I would if asked) because people just ~get~ where I'm coming from there.
I don't need to explain my quiet scumread (tho I have half done so and would go all the way there if asked) because people have a fairly good idea where I'm coming from there.
I don't need to explain why I have my suspicions about you (tho I kinda touched on them and would do so fully if asked) because people just ~get~ where I'm coming from there.

I DO need to explain my Prism read because it's NOT a shit read and DOES have good reason behind it...but unlike the other three reads, it goes against thread consensus so I need to explain why Prism is scum in a way that I don't for my other reads.

Prism isn't inherently scum for their flavor claim.
Prism isn't inherently scum for their mechanical claim of VT that started with a trident.
Prism does look like scum for the deliberate playstyle choice, but that one point isn't a 100% scumtell even if it is a 90% scumtell.
Prism isn't inherently scum for having done nothing which looks town at all this game in spite of the activity.

But when you combine ALL of them together, all the circumstantial evidence suggests Prism is actually scum.
You may note I'm not actually voting Prism, because I am aware that selling people on Prism D1 is a tough sell. I don't exactly have the credibility and influence to push it through. Plus, on play-based merits, Prism isn't actually my strongest scumread. (That'd be SirCakez.) But I absolutely

should

explain my Prism scumread because if I don't, I'll never have anyone follow me because they won't see where I'm coming from.

[mastina]

hol up
You're making a case on your

second

strongest scumread?

Overall second strongest, yes.
Play-based Prim's actually either third- or fourth-strongest, since aside from the 9/10-times-a-scumtell deliberate-playstyle-difference-announcement, nothing Prism's said has been play-wise indicative of either alignment. Aside from that one comment, Prism's play is explicitly null through and through.

But between mechanics and that one comment and the fact that Prism IS null in play through and through (which in of itself can be a scumtell), Prism is my second-strongest scumread.

But if I don't explain the scumread on Prism when people keep laughing at me for having it, it's not possible to convince them that I'm right.

Don't tell me it's for posterity, if you're nightkilled tonight after this day 1 then a choir of angels will come out my butt to play Taps on the way to the dead thread.

I don't fear being nightkilled in this playerlist; given this playerlist, there's less than a snowball's chance in hell of that happening.

I do fear the people who I could convince that I am right on Prism being nightkilled.

As in, if I don't convince people on Prism today, to at least consider that I'm right in where I am coming from, I'm afraid that the people who would be most receptive to my read will die.

Keep in mind: I don't expect to ever be sheeped, I don't expect to ever be followed, I don't have that pull, I don't have that charisma. But if someone else who WAS charismatic with that push decided to push Prism, then they COULD get that following--and if I manage to convince them that I am onto something, then THEY can convince others that they, and by proxy, I, am right.

But the players who're likely to work with me on my Prism read, who're likely to see where I am coming from, listen to it, seriously consider it, and agree with it, who have the charisma to convince people who will never listen to me and will always ignore me...

...Are incredibly likely to be the N1 nightkill.

So yes.

I need to case Prism. Because if I don't convince people today, chances are nobody will listen to me at all on the read for the rest of the game due to the players most willing to dieing N1.

There's good reason that in spite of my efforts to case Prism, my vote is elsewhere.

[mastina]

(Btw it might help people to know something. I have two dominant 'drivers' in my head, one I loosely refer to as 'mastina' and the other I loosely refer to as a different name. In mafia games we share duties, both prominently posting a lot, but right now there is a very very very strong domination of the non-mastina driver. It's been a while since she's been the one doing the majority of the work, since 'mastina' is usually the main driver with her as the secondary driver but for some reason she's actually at the forefront this game with mastina being the secondary driver. I legit dunno why she's more involved this game but I can

tell

that she IS. Neurological thing, hard to explain but it's very much there. I didn't realize this until just as I was leaving to try and hydrate; I literally left in the middle of making coffee to come here and post this since I just now made that realization.)

Hey, um, I haven't checked a vote count, but Cakez is at L-infinity. Unless something changes, he's not gonna get lynched today either.

He's gotten two or three votes with players widely suspicious of him beyond those who have voted him already. I remain optimistic on that front.

If needed, I can put in the effort necessary to explain why he is my strongest overall scumread, but right now given that others have more or less seen the same (is literally anyone other than MathBlade--who is only doing so from an alleged townslip--townreading SirCakez?), there's just not a need to put the time/effort into casing SirCakez.

If I ever feel there IS a need, then I WILL case SirCakez, but right now I don't feel there is so my efforts are best served explaining where I am coming from on Prism.

to tell us something about Prism that you already told us, but this time... more so?

Yes, with clarity given that people's doubts from my case are based on faulty assumptions on their part; I clarified their assumptions and better explained where I am coming from with more clarity.

You sure you didn't just check your own ISO in the middle of writing all that Prism stuff and go "oh shit my vote is actually on Cakez" and then think "but it'd look scummy to change it"?

I've zero fear of ever changing my vote nor would I ever be unaware of where it is. I've no fear of changing my vote to Prism and have been perfectly aware that my vote's on SirCakez in spite of casing Prism.

But I already explained why I'm not voting Prism; voting Prism may be a statement of the scumread, but is a waste because I'm not going to convince people to eliminate Prism, AND voting Prism isn't voting for my strongest scumread because in spite of my case against Prism, Prism isn't my strongest scumread.

[mastina]

Because right now you seem to be soft tossing out alternatives to the Mathblade wagon without voting Mathblade, and without really giving an opinion on Mathblade's wagon.

I'd rather not vote MathBlade for a number of reasons:
1: As the largest wagon, me voting him actually risks ending the day prematurely--especially if he's actually scum. MathBlade IS the type of scum player who, if placed at L-1, will hammer to deny the town the chance for discussion and he's been hovering at L-2 for a long time. (He's done it before, and yes, we are into the early part of the day where information denial WOULD be good for scum.)
2: MathBlade is not my strongest scumread. I see his play as being more scum overall than town, but I can see him being town. I'd prefer to vote my strongest scumread unless I need to compromise. And at this early stage of D1, I don't see a need to compromise.
3: MathBlade is not scum with Prism. Their interactions aren't scum-scum here, but my scumread on Prism is stronger than my scumread on MB.
4: I don't see the harm in having competing wagons on scum candidates, especially if they are both actually scum. If SirCakez is scum with a wagon on him and MathBlade is scum with a wagon on him, then that's actually legit the best-case scenario for the town since no matter which wagon goes through, the town wins.
5: MathBlade is under plenty of pressure without my vote; my vote doesn't add any extra. Whereas my vote on SirCakez DOES apply pressure to him.

However, while I'd rather not vote the MathBlade wagon, given my suspicion on his slot, I'm certainly not going to try and dismantle it.

Or Titus'.

The Titus wagon doesn't seem to have nearly the same amount of momentum as other wagons and for good reason; I'm not the only one who thinks that of the two siblings, Titus is the townier of the two by far. If Titus's wagon actually DID have momentum near lethal, damn straight I'd object and give more thoughts there, but she ISN'T at that point right now so I frankly don't need to; it's a waste of time/effort.

What's your opinion on Mathblade, the current fucking wagon?

Possible scum, but not scum with Prism. One of the two flipping scum clears the other; one of the two flipping town would condemn the other in my eyes.

[mastina]

So since Cakez is your strongest scumread, does Cakez work as a Mathblade partner?

I'm not absolutely sure, but I think so, yes.

I'm assuming Prism works as a Cakez partner because if you tell me he doesn't my head will literally explode.

Pretty sure, yeah.

You've got a "90% tell", somehow I'm not your strongest scumread

Yes and yes.

and you've spent 3000 words engaging with exactly zero of my actual content.

"content".

There's nothing to engage on within there because literally nothing within is alignment indicative.

Who the fuck are these people?

Well for a start.

SirCakez (3): mastina, Kitty Trauma Team, Dunnstral

I can probably track down the quotes of other players who have said you're not north of null, too.

You obviously can't actually case me.

Proper case-case, sure, probably not. Explain the scumread in more detail tho? That I can do.

[mastina]

i need to see some readslists i think!

Lady Lambdadelta*
PookyTheMagicalBear
Dunnstral
Bell
Kitty Trauma Team (hydra of Malakittens and kuribo)
borkjerfkin
sangres (hydra of fferyllt and Nachomamma8)
Tammy
GreyICE*

Titus
Spiffeh

Battle Mage


quiet

MathBlade

Prism
SirCakez

Here ya go! It's locktown townread null scumlean scumread(with a caveat) lockscum.

Surprised you asked tho.

[mastina]

Fair warning/reminder: I am incredibly V/LA due to lifeguarding stuff. However, have some time so can do this.

her case for HG being scum flavor really is simplistically awful. HG is driven to do terrible things in season 2 because of overwhelming grief and a sense of being lost in a horrible, evil, irredemable time instead of the golden age that the steampunk-y science fiction genre she wrote expected. She doesn't come to her senses at the moment of death, but from a place of pure reason and love. She doesn't covet artifacts for power and control. She doesn't sell artifacts to people who will use them for personal aggrandizement. She isn't warped by artifacts. She's a flawed, redeemable and ultimately redeemed human being who goes on to do good. A lot of good.

My case isn't flavor.
My case is based off of the game mechanics:

4) A significant mechanic in this game is the distribution of Artifacts. The abilities they grant are all one-shot and work by the following rules:

Two Artifacts are presented to the Mafia at the start of the Night phase. They pick one to keep by the end of the Night phase (along with a recipient for it, among their faction or elsewhere) and one that will go to the game thread at the start of the Morning, where the living players will vote on the recipient of that Artifact decided by plurality. The Morning will end if a majority vote is reached for the Artifact recipient.

Prism started with an artifact, the trident. And passed this to bork overnight.
Scum started with an artifact that they could choose the recipient of.
The trident was in use during the time HG Wells was a villain.
HG Wells being a VT who starts with the trident both flavorwise and mechanically-wise makes less sense than HG being scum who passed the trident along.

Combine that with Prism deliberately altering their play this game, along with nothing Prism's said/done in all of their content being town (in fact, Prism's self-admitted change in style to be aggressive is something that has caused Prism's content to be aggressively null).

Mechanically, it makes more sense for Prism to be scum than town, and that is backed up by Prism's playstyle this game.

And yes, no matter how much you will say she was redeemed and wasn't truly villainous and all that--she literally spent two centuries bronzed, in containment, in confinement; she didn't get bronzed initially for being a good virtuous agent wrongly imprisoned; she got bronzed because

she was a threat to the warehouse

. And when she was unbronzed, she was STILL a threat to the warehouse. She was redeemed, yes. But why is it more likely that penguin_alien chose her time after redemption for her, than penguin_alien chose her time before redemption for her?

[mastina]

Fair warning/reminder: I am incredibly V/LA due to lifeguarding stuff. However, have some time so can do this.

her case for HG being scum flavor really is simplistically awful. HG is driven to do terrible things in season 2 because of overwhelming grief and a sense of being lost in a horrible, evil, irredemable time instead of the golden age that the steampunk-y science fiction genre she wrote expected. She doesn't come to her senses at the moment of death, but from a place of pure reason and love. She doesn't covet artifacts for power and control. She doesn't sell artifacts to people who will use them for personal aggrandizement. She isn't warped by artifacts. She's a flawed, redeemable and ultimately redeemed human being who goes on to do good. A lot of good.

My case isn't flavor.
My case is based off of the game mechanics:

4) A significant mechanic in this game is the distribution of Artifacts. The abilities they grant are all one-shot and work by the following rules:

Two Artifacts are presented to the Mafia at the start of the Night phase. They pick one to keep by the end of the Night phase (along with a recipient for it, among their faction or elsewhere) and one that will go to the game thread at the start of the Morning, where the living players will vote on the recipient of that Artifact decided by plurality. The Morning will end if a majority vote is reached for the Artifact recipient.

Prism started with an artifact, the trident. And passed this to bork overnight.
Scum started with an artifact that they could choose the recipient of.
The trident was in use during the time HG Wells was a villain.
HG Wells being a VT who starts with the trident both flavorwise and mechanically-wise makes less sense than HG being scum who passed the trident along.

Combine that with Prism deliberately altering their play this game, along with nothing Prism's said/done in all of their content being town (in fact, Prism's self-admitted change in style to be aggressive is something that has caused Prism's content to be aggressively null).

Mechanically, it makes more sense for Prism to be scum than town, and that is backed up by Prism's playstyle this game.

And yes, no matter how much you will say she was redeemed and wasn't truly villainous and all that--she literally spent two centuries bronzed, in containment, in confinement; she didn't get bronzed initially for being a good virtuous agent wrongly imprisoned; she got bronzed because

she was a threat to the warehouse

. And when she was unbronzed, she was STILL a threat to the warehouse. She was redeemed, yes. But why is it more likely that penguin_alien chose her time after redemption for her, than penguin_alien chose her time before redemption for her?

Forgot a word. My case isn't entirely flavor; my case isn't just flavor; my case isn't purely flavor; my case is not flavor and nothing else; etc.

Yes there's flavor involved in the case--flavor is not the entirety of the case tho.

[mastina]

VOTE: Titus

Hey so like.

Remember when I said that I wouldn't be defending a slot until it was run up?

Now's that time.

Titus is town.

If the wagon is still literally at L-1 when I get caught up there will be

hell

to pay.

[mastina]

I still haven't dived into her ISO.

I would recommend doing so and checking her play here compared to other recent games.

Literally the only reason Titus would be scum here is being too townie; her play in this game is literally better than I've seen from her in any other recent game.

[mastina]

So if that's hammer and if Titus is being honest about being town, I still don't like prism or Cakez as town. They can be buddies together, and I think there's one scum if not both. Leaning more towards Cakez.

See also: I am casing Prism as scum and voting SirCakez.

quiet slot is also probscum, too.

[mastina]

Me, sangres, Tammy, and Spiffeh all have basically the same reads and somehow this game is still hard. Amazing.

Probably because that bloc isn't all town.

Is it possible quiet siteflaked?

Sure, but quiet's posting was scum even before the siteflake and I buy that rolling scum in a game like this could cause a siteflake.

Tbh at this point I would flash wagon Battle Mage or quiet and wouldn't feel bad about it

I mean literally the only reason I'd not vote Battle Mage is due to having a perma-scumread on the slot.

[mastina]

VOTE: Mastina

VOTE: Mastina
Like I said would do either.

I mean at this point I am explicitly fine with these votes even/especially if GI joins them there because they're votes that were on Titus that no longer are.

I'll happily take a wagon on me if it means Titus isn't a wagon.

The more and more I see from Titus, the more and more I'm

that

sure she's town here.

[mastina]

Christ no. I've played with Titus before, I've fought with Titus before, and no, Titus can play better than this.

So have I. Titus at her peak when she was literally nominated for Paragon can indeed play better than this, but Titus at her peak can play better as scum than this.

This is a comparative statement.

Titus, at her CURRENT level, at her distanced-from-games state, has never been townier than she's been in this game.

As in.

Titus, when suffering from crippling depression.
When struggling to post.
When struggling to stay in a game with content she believes in.

Has never been townier than she is being in this game.

In recent history, Titus has been in bad spots mentally, and her performance in games has suffered.

But this game Titus has been as town as she possibly could be, given her state.

[mastina]

Is the game just to split the wagon to reduce pressure -_-

I mean--explicitly so, yes?

My townread on Titus is strong enough that I am willing to take some heat off of her onto myself to save her.

[mastina]

You don't get to get out of this by going "lol I'm deliberately scummy!"

Oh I'm absolutely not being deliberately scummy but if people are going to think my towngame is me as scum enough to vote me rather than Titus--I'm not gonna correct them.

To elaborate.

I'm in no way shape or form scummy this game. I'm certainly not deliberately scummy (that's a variant of the tell I am using on Prism), nor am I actually scummy.

The people defending Prism are thinking I am, but they're literally being blind. Prism is scum this game. My case

is

a solid one. Nothing Prism has done this game has been town, and Prism's pushes are, by and large, bad ones, and for all of the words Prism says, Prism isn't actually pushing hard. Prism is being hyper-aggressive but that aggression amounts to little in the way of strongly pushing reads and reasons. Like I said, Prism's done a deliberate playstyle shift to being aggressive (itself a 90% scumtell), but the shift was into aggressively null, actively avoiding trying to be power-town or power-scum. Mechanically especially with the plausible-scum flavor of HG Wells, Prism fits as scum. And people keep on saying "mastina can't be that bad for targeting such a weak case on Prism".

But the case isn't fucking weak. I know what I'm damn well talking about here. The case isn't just flavor, it's the everything, the total picture, the combination of factors adding up.

However if people are dead set on voting me in spite of me not being scummy, I'm certainly not going to stop them if the result is the collapse of the Titus wagon. While I'd prefer not to vote MathBlade (due to me having a much stronger scumread on Prism), I can always compromise there if need be; there's mounting pressure on SirCakez so my current vote's wagon can pick up momentum and steam, too.

As long as scum get eliminated today, my job is done, and as long as town isn't, I've done my job, too. And Titus isn't scum here so any method to reduce the wagon on her is worth it in the end, especially if the result is an increased chance of one or both of {MathBlade, SirCakez} being wagoned to elimination.

[mastina]

Mastina not doing a readwall is also rather damning as she almost always does this as town.

*a-HEM*

i need to see some readslists i think!

Lady Lambdadelta*
PookyTheMagicalBear
Dunnstral
Bell
Kitty Trauma Team (hydra of Malakittens and kuribo)
borkjerfkin
sangres (hydra of fferyllt and Nachomamma8)
Tammy
GreyICE*

Titus
Spiffeh

Battle Mage


quiet

MathBlade

Prism
SirCakez

Here ya go! It's locktown townread null scumlean scumread(with a caveat) lockscum.

Surprised you asked tho.

Now I admit I haven't updated that since that post, but I was V/LA at the time, sooooo. It wasn't something I had the time to do. Going forward, I'll be having more time.

I just find it odd how he ran straight to the bottom of everyone's readslists

Everyone was sheeping me, clearly.

(I had a scumread on quiet before it was cool to have a scumread there.)

I'm not sure what it means that Mastina knows it too

It means I have intimate familiarity with Titus, both in games and outside of them--while I've played with this playerlist of legends before (basically almost everyone here I have extensive game history with spanning years upon years), most of them I haven't played with or kept contact with in years.

Titus, however--I've played with Titus since she joined the site pretty much and unlike, sayyy, Nacho, Tammy, ffery, et all, I have continued to play with her extensively in very recent history, with like 6-12 games in recent history (last 1-2 years) with her.

And this is Titus as town.

My townread on Titus is strong enough that I am willing to take some heat off of her onto myself to save her.

Why? your early reads list had her in a tier2 with a tier1 that was a list of a lot of people. What happened between that and 1541

All of Titus's posts from this point onward. (If I did it right, this is a link to her 1300 in her iso, showing her ~17 posts after my previous readslist on her.)

Titus was already a townread but I had my doubts on her which kept her from being locktown--tracking her thought process and mindstate in those ~17 posts allowed me to get a much better grip on her and move her to locktown of locktown.

[mastina]

Lady Lambdadelta*
Titus
PookyTheMagicalBear
Dunnstral
Bell
Kitty Trauma Team (hydra of Malakittens and kuribo)
borkjerfkin
sangres (hydra of fferyllt and Nachomamma8)
Tammy
GreyICE*

Spiffeh



Battle Mage


MathBlade

quiet

Prism
SirCakez

Locktown, townread, nullread-situationally-poe-scumread, scumread-with-a-conditional-locktown-condition scumread lockscum.

[mastina]

Insert expression of outrage and surprise that Mathblade thinks there's a traitor in this game.

I mean regardless of his alignment, MathBlade ALWAYS thinks there's a traitor in the game.

Like, legitimately, he has like...suggested a traitor in most of his games, and always posits the existence of one in scum PTs even when the setup would provably say there aren't any.

That said it is something I tend to, overall, see more from scum-MB than town-MB tho.

[mastina]

You know I'm aware of the meme in addition because I joked about it in the Cell PT which you were part of and undoubtedly read.

Just because I read doesn't mean I remember.

Also, for the record: I'm worthless enough right now that I don't mind dieing--why?

Because on this page, in the 1711 through 1724 I am doubting my Prism read.

I am pretty sure Titus is town, but if Prism is town I don't really have much in the way of useful scumreads. I'm still voting SirCakez, and I'd go onto MathBlade, but I should have four scumreads but I don't, unless you think that SirCakez-MathBlade-quiet-BM works as a scumteam.

[mastina]

I skimmed mastina's posts again. Everything about this slot is absolutely horrific, entire attitude around Cakez is a complete trainwreck.

Cakez is scum here because gut, mostly, combined with experience. I've seen him a lot as scum recently and this looks like his scumgame.

MathBlade I didn't think was scum with you but if you're town then he's probably scum because he's shown multiple instances of this being more of his scum meta than his town meta.

[mastina]

leaning mastina of the 3 options presented. happy to be persuaded otherwise.
VOTE: mastina

Okay yeah Battle Mage can be scum here, for real.

BM lacking conviction and being asked to be persuaded?

Since

when

is that him as town?

[mastina]

Sorry Mastina.

Since when would you be sorry to eliminate me?

This is disingenuous as fuck; you're way, WAY too much of an abrasive-player to care about eliminating me.

[mastina]

was it spiffeh who was trying to argue mathblade wasn't opportunistic and survivalistic? whoever it was, needs a serious re-think. and any sane vig should be shooting Mathblade tonight.

BM+SirCakez+Bell+Quiet? Spitballing here. I think this fits?

(For the record while Bell is town it is posts like these which're why I am voting SirCakez over MathBlade because while MathBlade looks scum by play, he is at least mostly fingering the correct people as being scum.)

For the record--I actually legit think Battle Mage has moved to my strongest scumread here, but I don't think I can wagon him.
So, still voting SirCakez even tho BM is now my strongest scumread.

[mastina]

Also like BM's recent posts.

even Battle Mage's more recent posts make me feel better about him.

Why?

Battle Mage's recent posts have been "nice". He's been acting nice to players, working with them, acting as a mediator, being a team player, calling fights TvT, and generally being moderate: not committing to anything hard, saying preferences and stances but without passion and conviction behind them.

Does any of this jive with your experience of BM as town?

Because it flies in the face of the abrasive BM that I know, while being a perfect fit for the Battle Mage I've seen as scum pull this exact strategy to get some cheap towncred.

[mastina]

Can you take another look at Bork and Dunn?

No need to relook at Dunnstral; he's town here.

But sure I can take another look at bork if I have the time to do so.

[mastina]

im struggling to see the Cakez-Mathblade team you're peddling here Mastina...

Maybe because you're on it.

Because on this page, in the 1711 through 1724 I am doubting my Prism read.

why lmao, I routinely make analytical posts like these as scum with 0 issues

Did I say you went from hard scum to hard town?

I did not.

I said I was doubting my Prism scumread, and it is for precisely that reason.

I am well aware the analysis within could come from scum. If I wasn't aware of the possibility, you'd have moved to hard-town.

However, the analysis within didn't look like it did come from scum. It actually looked town and was legit the first time reading any of your posts that I thought it looked town.

Why do you think Bell is town when his ISO is focused exclusively on me despite attempts to see how he sees the rest of the game and blatantly ignoring questions about his reads

Because this is Bell's towngame.

[mastina]

Lady Lambdadelta*
Titus
PookyTheMagicalBear
Dunnstral
Bell
Kitty Trauma Team (hydra of Malakittens and kuribo)
borkjerfkin
sangres (hydra of fferyllt and Nachomamma8)
Tammy
GreyICE*

Spiffeh



Prism
MathBlade


quiet

SirCakez
Battle Mage

Locktown townread conflicted-need-time-to-sort scumlean scumread.

[mastina]

Got exactly one thing that I don't expect to have, yes, although no indication where I got it from. Are you the character pictured w/ that item if I look it up on the wiki? If so it's adorable you picked me considering my own flavor

Okay immediately yeah bork townread holds and his iso is pure town.

[mastina]

Lady Lambdadelta*
Titus
PookyTheMagicalBear
Dunnstral
Bell
Kitty Trauma Team (hydra of Malakittens and kuribo)
borkjerfkin
sangres (hydra of fferyllt and Nachomamma8)
Tammy
GreyICE*

Spiffeh



Prism
MathBlade


quiet

SirCakez
Battle Mage

Locktown townread conflicted-need-time-to-sort scumlean scumread.

(I originally had MathBlade lower due to the scumread there but second-guessed him to be higher up there with Prism because he has stated scumreads on all three of my scumreads so I decided to put him up there with Prism. Prism is conflicted due to having all the reasons for being scum yet seeing town in Prism's more recent play but knowing Prism could post it as scum whereas MathBlade is up there due to looking like scum but having reads that would either be bussing or indicative that MB is town due to scumreading most of the scum.)

[mastina]

Lady Lambdadelta*
Titus
PookyTheMagicalBear
Dunnstral
Bell
Kitty Trauma Team (hydra of Malakittens and kuribo)
borkjerfkin
sangres (hydra of fferyllt and Nachomamma8)
Tammy
GreyICE*

Spiffeh



Prism
MathBlade


quiet

SirCakez
Battle Mage

Locktown townread conflicted-need-time-to-sort scumlean scumread.

(I originally had MathBlade lower due to the scumread there but second-guessed him to be higher up there with Prism because he has stated scumreads on all three of my scumreads so I decided to put him up there with Prism. Prism is conflicted due to having all the reasons for being scum yet seeing town in Prism's more recent play but knowing Prism could post it as scum whereas MathBlade is up there due to looking like scum but having reads that would either be bussing or indicative that MB is town due to scumreading most of the scum.)

Pagetopping this.

[mastina]

@mastina, why do scum!Math and scum!Cakez vote Dunn over your wagon mastina?

Because I'm flipping town and the Dunnstral wagon isn't actually going to happen so they want the towncred from my townflip and to set up for a potential Dunn wagon D2 after I do.

Scum don't need to pile onto me for me to die; there's enough town voting/scumreading me that I can be mislynched largely without their help. Probably not entirely without scum's help (D1 mislynches are rarely entirely town), but largely without.

Plus, there's nothing to stop them from going "Okay Dunnstral's not happening, let's just vote mastina", now, is there?

The Dunnstral wagon is painfully obviously not going to go through today--so voting there is purely a posturing move to set up for future days. It's to look good and look 'town' and make Dunn look bad without actually being possible/viable. And like I said: they're almost certainly going to rejoin my wagon anyway.

[mastina]

Hey who wants to flash wagon Cakez today?

Vote: Cakez

I'm already voting there, so.

[mastina]

I want one of

Mathblade
Titus
Cakez

today.

I'm voting Cakez but would go to MathBlade if needed.

Butyeah LLD hath spoken.

[mastina]

mastina thinks I'm scum for my flavor claim and how I went about it, I make some basic analysis posts and then she goes "Yeah I know Prism can totally fake it but it's the first town thing they've done all game"

Explicitly so, yes.

It's the first town thing you've done.
I know it could come from you as scum.
But it doesn't look like it did come from scum.

[mastina]

CLEARLY, this was a game won by an OBVIOUSLY ridiculously townsided setup, IN NO WAY could this town stomp just be due to good townplay.





<3

(For those who don't get joke-tone: from a role perspective, I'd actually say that if anything, this game is rather notably scumsided. Town had a grand total of four real power roles. One, the BP BG, scum had a hard-counter to in the form of the strongman. Two of them, the masons, are conftown but the moment they're exposed it's ridiculously easy to nightkill them thanks to said strongman, and due to a significant amount of the town's power being in them thanks to them being the artifact distributors, early eliminations on them cripple the town. The fourth, Tammy's role, is basically a combination of a Vanilla Cop and a Detective: it is a role that fundamentally cannot get a hard-innocent; it is a role that, fundamentally, cannot get a guilty on scum that haven't used their artifacts; it is a role that, fundamentally, cannot get a guilty on scum that have used their artifacts but truthfully claim to have had them and used them. It can ONLY get a guilty on scum that have used artifacts and lie about it, making it a conditional investigative role. Artifacts may bring it back to loosely balanced due to being an overall boon for the town without giving the scum much of an edge, but from the setup's roles alone disregarding artifacts I'd call it rather notably scumsided.

The fact that we got trounced in a game that was either balanced or if it leaned in any direction leaned towards being scumsided, should be a testament to the skill of the town; we got owned.)

[mastina]

i am psychologically incapable of playing scum apparently

Pretty much same tho in my case there was at least some strategy involved.

For the town who didn't get to see it, basically, I was counting on being wagoned up to like 7, then the wagon falling apart--in the middle of the day, this would have worked. (See also: LLD near the end of day on the wagon on me. Had that been LLD's reaction to a middle of the day wagon on me, the wagon would've collapsed without issue.) Unfortunately, I made a miscalculation; the wagon on me was too close to the deadline.

And then there was the obvious adaption. I wasn't going to let myself die for free, but with the other wagon being SirCakez, it was indeed better for me a goon to die over SirCakez the power role. The hope there was that my death wouldn't spew anyone as town except for possibly my scumbuddies (and in fact to potentially spew multiple townies as possible scum), with SirCakez as my scumbuddy, me voting him, and literally the entire scumteam voting me.

It ALMOST worked, but alas. Pooky, Prism, and more, collectively too OP.

[mastina]

It's actually cool how we all had bits of the puzzle this Day 2-4, a piece with me, a piece with Spiffeh, a piece with MB, and then at some point Detective Pooky did his best Adrian Monk impression and put all of them together

Fun fact: at one point in the game MathBlade had, from his vca, the

exact

correct distribution of where scum were. As in, "1 scum in {group with 1 scum in it}, 1 scum in {group with 1 scum in it}, 1 scum in {group with 1 scum in it}", and was dead on the money with the analysis of that distribution.

He did get 1 or 2 of his guesses as to who the scum in those groups were wrong, but the distribution was dead on the money and from this analysis he did correctly finger 1 or 2 scum.

But yes, you were a high performer; Spiffeh did pretty well at certain points; MathBlade had parts of the puzzle at certain points; Pooky reigns supreme for having the most important point and uniting the town on the rest.

[mastina]

The scum scum interactions messed me up

+1 they just imploded which is rare for a mastina scumteam.

I mean it wasn't an implosion at least on D1; it was a deliberate choice in strategy: in this playerlist, I knew that I couldn't live for long; I knew that the latest I could make it was to like D3 at the latest; I knew that my inevitable scumflip had a high chance of spewing many players as town and potentially outing my partners; I played in a way that was meant to give the maximum number of possible ways to subvert this, and I'd say it was highly successful in that regard. How many players were fingered as a possible scumbuddy of mine on D2? Pooky was named; MathBlade was named; Titus was named; PRISM of all people was named; DGB was named; the kuribo hydra was shot by the vig; BM might have been named; I believe Spiffeh was named as well. Oh, also Dunnstral as a counterwagon to me that I adamantly refused to join.

~9 people, all town, named as a possible scumbuddy of me from my D1 play is a pretty good place to be given the caliber of this playerlist.

Granted, I knew scum dead on D1 wasn't optimal; it was making the best of a bad situation. (Both being wagoned with less than 48 hours until deadline rather than in the middle of the day phase, and having the counterwagon to me be a scum PR.) If the counterwagon wasn't a scum PR and/or the wagon on me was earlier, I probably could have lived, but with the wagon emerging so close to deadline and the only other option being a scum PR, I feel like the correct call WAS to have me be the D1 elimination.

It

almost

worked out for us--if SirCakez could have lived, then the game becomes much much easier for the scum. Pooky doesn't get elevated to conftown and remains a suspect. Prism paranoia can potentially go through. MathBlade and Titus are both highly likely eliminations. Dunnstral also is another potential one. If SirCakez lives, that's ~3 fairly easy eliminations on top of the DGB elimination with paranoia potentially leading to 1-2 more.

So there was room for it to work, if SirCakez lived. If the town was slightly less unified, slightly less on point, slightly less swayed by the magic of Pooky, then the scum had an actual wincon here imo from the lack of completely correct analysis of D1 with nobody having all the pieces and with the hard disagreement between them it was possible for scum to navigate that disagreement to stay alive and force compromise eliminations that would inevitably be on town.

But Pooky OP; all of this relied on SirCakez living, and Pooky made sure he didn't, and once SirCakez died, the scum's window for winning the game just vanished. Because the SirCakez elimination is what the town needed to unify together.

[mastina]

Mastina, you're a good sport <3

I mean this was a playerlist featuring Tammy, Spiffeh, PookyTheMagicalBear, Titus, MathBlade, Prism, Dunnstral, Battle Mage, fferyllt, Nachomamma8, kuribo, Malakittens, you, Lady Lambdadelta, and Bell.

How can I be anything but when losing to a town like that?

It's literally a playerlist filled to the absolute brim with absolute all-time legends, some present, lots past--and even if the past all-time legends have had their skills dulled, they are still legends for damn good reason worthy of respect in their skills/talents and this game is exactly why.

[mastina]

Btw I made a nomination in part from this game. <3

[mastina]

Btw I made a nomination in part from this game. <3

Pagetopping this. <3