Warehouse 13: The Mafia Game (Game Over)

[Bell]

Hi all,

Setting expectations: I am undergoing job training for a month, I will not have the same activity I had pre-job.

Just going to go out and say it,
I'm A dOcTor ThIs GaME (this is not a crumb).

It sounds like we should be sending the comb to someone we don't like. tbh.

[Bell]

VOTE: Spiffeh

Test.

[Bell]

Yes.

[Bell]

VOTE: Bell

I'm town. Give me the gun.

[Bell]

VOTE: LLD

I'm available, call me If you change your mind.

[Bell]

The scum don't know what the artifacts do until they receive it. So the artifact they picked they know what it does now I think.
They likely relied on the wiki for which artifact to pick.

Beyond that it's not clear to me whether the scum team have abilities outside of the artifact, or whether they started with multiple artifacts outside of the provided two.

I dunno what the prism thing is about, whether scum sent it to them, or they just had it from the start.

[Bell]

Correct.
Well, maybe not. Somebody could be informed about how an artifact(s) work. But that's speculation. I'm not good at that.

[Bell]

#192: You called?

[Bell]

#192: You called?

I was gonna day that’s like me and bell I think and that would get real boring, but I didn’t want to hurt your feelings if you were sensitive about it so I just chuckled to myself.

I'm sensitive about it, in that kind of, "why can't I lie good so that I don't ruin the game for others?" Guilt sense.
But that's about it.

Just off the top of my head.

Pooky, Dun, BM, LLD. Town.

Could be wrong on one or more.

Spiffeh and Math both kind of just reminding me of their scum game, but on the otherhand, they both appear incapable of rolling town in games I'm in so take that with a grain of salt or 10.

I'm meh on everyone else.

Tammy's a vibe read this game.

[Bell]

Could practically feel Math's fingers on my heart strings.
What a delinquent.

[Bell]

He's just a reprobate Pooks.
We have to hold on through the stormy seas of Math's siren manipulations.

[Bell]

I'm here to let everybody know that while I agree with Dunn that sangres town reads were unnatural at the beginning, Sangres is town.
Because I don't think FF, burdened with a scum role pm can compliment others in the middle of a game like that with Prism.*

*All my reads are subject to reversal.

I think Tammy was doing a seance with their boss's heart.

[Bell]

*Back pat's Tammy*
Have a good sleep.

[Bell]

@FF: It's a strange moment when I knew Nacho posted that, but I mentally attributed it to you. Chalk it up to another forced town read.
I don't really know if pondering that particular question is actually going to result in anything. I feel like you're more reserved as scum. that's just a genuine meta opinion and I doubt I would alter it as either alignment.

Math is doing that thing where he's a pugilist that can wiggle his way out of an elim through sheer gumption even though he isn't making much sense or making up particularly good opinions.

@Spiffeh, sure my reads could suck. That's always a thing.

[Bell]

Cakez giving out town vibes.

But I will be throwing away all my reads because I'm going to inevitably get suckered by someone that knows how to push the I'm town button. Hell, it's more likely that town don't push the town button so early because they're town and not terribly insecure.

I'm against it. The last scum game Prism had with me (FGO) they were very good at faking a town mind set. The first thing they did when they got into the game was social engineering Bork and through him, everybody else.
Call it paranoia or the "I don't like to give people things that they want because I'm a jerk" Bell personality quirk.

[Bell]

Cakez giving out town vibes.

But I will be throwing away all my reads because I'm going to inevitably get suckered by someone that knows how to push the I'm town button. Hell, it's more likely that town don't push the town button so early because they're town and not terribly insecure.

I'm against it. The last scum game Prism had with me (FGO) they were very good at faking a town mind set. The first thing they did when they got into the game was social engineering Bork and through him, everybody else.
Call it paranoia or the "I don't like to give people things that they want because I'm a jerk" Bell personality quirk.

No he is not.
He says he’s going to trust me on being flavor guide then attacks me using misreps twice now.

If we're going to get bogged down into these sorts of shallow discussions we're going to need more than 85 pages.
1. Mathblade isn't likely going to not wiki-link every artifact that comes up because he's helpful as either alignment because it's easy and if he doesn't say it, someone else is gunna.
2. He didn't misrep you, he misrepped the game state. On the otherhand the seriousness of the reads and how confident people are that you're scum is somewhat up for debate. It's day 1. Nobody whose town is genuinely confident. We're all performing in our own way. Implying otherwise is below your level of skill.

These points are easily refuted or pushed against. Also, my activity is going to take a steep dip off the weekend. RIP. I'm having a lot of fun this game too. *sigh*.

Pedit:
@Sircakez, please don't be a sucker. Math fixating is very typical of his scum game. I've never seen his town game so I suppose I'm full of shit here though!

[Bell]

I dunno, I'm town dude.
I've never seen his town game. I have no reference except his cheap AtE which was obvious manipulation. I'm going to scum read him for intentionally manipulating my feelings.

[Bell]

And how am I doing that?
The entire argument I am scum is based on I didn’t react immediately despite a flu and roleplaying with friends and my reaction time.
If I dissuade that I am spamming and running up post count and therefore “feeding people”.
If I don’t respond immediately then I am scum for not responding fast enough.
It’s lose lose.

What do you think of Sangres?

1. No the entire argument isn't based on that.
2. You don't need to respond to every attack against you.
3. You don't need to respond to every attack against you immediately either.
4. You're full of shit.

I think Sangres is town. I also think Nacho is intentionally towning it up by going on about his missing being scum in a wifomy way because it makes me think, "Ahah, as scum he'd never be this upfront, I see hope" but then, I kind of think, well actually, recently I seem to have seen an example of someone doing something like this so maybe I shouldn't get so excited.

It's a wifom tunnel in Bell world.

[Bell]

1. Because people use shorthand to communicate because effort/articulation isnt always readily available or necessary. I thought they were talking about quiet and how does this make them scum?

No Mathblade.
Your thinking is totally rigid here.
Responding to every accusation against you is a playstyle choice and it is not natural law that if you don't immediately respond to every accusation made against you you're doomed to be scum read for eternity.
Nor is there any guarantee that your method is the right one for changing people's minds.

[Bell]

#348: I was talking about what Prism was doing here. From FGO I realized they're the planning type that's good at getting town read as scum and I know they want to be town read here. There's nothing wrong with it. But my attitude is that if someone wants something you have to ask yourself why and I don't know why. But it's not something they should be town read for. I lack information, people are making decisions based on the limited information they have (or scum are voting for them either or). I don't want Prism getting the artifact for the aforementioned ("I'm a jerk," "I'm paranoid") reasons.
#349: It's a natural emotional need to defend yourself, but it's monkey brain social stuff. It's not critical thinking which I don't think Mathblade is short of as a human being. I don't know what Math town looks like.

You've correctly deduced I'm not partners with Mathblade, but instead of calling a spade a spade, you called it a heart.

[Bell]

Holy shit. They did not accidentally post a scum PT post in thread.

[Bell]

No, you said I was doing my due diligence not to appear partnered with Mathblade,
Which implies I appeared to not be partnered with Mathblade.

I'm not partnered with Mathblade. So you saying it looks like I'm partners with mathblade because I made a post that looks like distancing (instead of there just being distance between us because we're not partners)
is a failure to apply ockham's razor.

Yeah, I have no idea why you're town reading Mathblade. His stubbornness and density are both present in his scum game, but people naturally seem to respond to him as if he were town for behaving that way. BM's note in how to read Mathblade, I don't agree with, but there is a nuance to reading him which gets the point across in both our opinions.

[Bell]

Nacho, same. I've played with scum him 3 times in a row and this silliness was present in two of them.

The only thing it's missing is him apologizing to me for being silly and helping him get his head out of his ass. Because I'm so reasonable sounding. But that wouldn't fly because of past history with it and 3 times is too much so I fully expect him not to back down as either alignment whilst directly talking to me.
I'm not tunneled, I'm just not being moved by his arguments and being clear about it.

[Bell]

this silliness

Silliness to the same degree of accusing someone of accidentally posting a scum PT post in thread?

Because whereas I expect everyone to tilt at windmills regardless of alignment this is a pretty hard argument to fabricate as scum. Mathblade maybe goes "hah this kind of looks like something I'd say in a scum PT" but I don't think he then uses that leverage to make this argument - there's no reason to do it except to be townread, and I don't think that the reward is worth the loss in trust, especially this early.

Does that point make sense?

Yes. it makes sense. I'm wiggling a little bit internally. As for whether this silliness is similar. I do think he'll go for low hanging fruits and arguments as scum if he sees something he can use, he'll use it.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12516728

Decide for yourself. This is a boonskies game. I linked to the first post where he compared a completely unrelated game and his own behavior in it to Samantha's behavior. It was divorced from reality and context. The conversation is about 10 math blade posts if you follow an iso from post to post.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12248412
Mysterybox of silver six. Just fixation's all day. He does keep his wording as both alignments close. His rhetoric about being a lose/lose is used in the post linked. But it doesn't truly mean anything because he covered for that by noting he says similar things as either alignment to avoid trust tells.
He also later called me a town traitor. Which was kind of from outerspace.

I'm not dead set on Mathblade scum. But I think his aTe was a blatant manipulation.

[Bell]

Can I have the artifact.
I'm town and town should want the artifact and I'm nothing if not shameless about it.

[Bell]

I'm already voting LLD but I'd be voting them again if I could.

Weak kitty town for mindmeld with my deleted post that started with the exact same words.

[Bell]

I'm already voting LLD but I'd be voting them again if I could.

Weak kitty town for mindmeld with my deleted post that started with the exact same words.

hey Bell, would you vote for your old pal BM?

Probably going with the claimed mason on this one buddy.
What's there to talk about?

[Bell]

I'm going to need a letter from your Doctor explaining why you aren't voting LLD instantly RN @Everybody.

[Bell]

VOTE: Mathblade

[Bell]

Hot take: dunnstral is scum again

This is not a hot take, it's a good one.

Three of Dunny's four posts have been low effort nitpicks, and the other was a mechanics question that I didn't understand. 174 specifically doesn't sound like something town says, questioning specific players about their sangres read is one thing but shading everyone town reading them without explanation is useless. It reminds me of Titus vs. Alisae when I caught him for similar shady, nitpicky posting where he'd lurk and post full quote-wall catch ups taking potshots at random shit that never ended up forming into genuine reads or having real progression.

And while I've been scum in my three recently completed games, Dunn has been town in all of them and he it was obvious from his first few posts. That's not the case here.

Maybe I'm calling this out too early and it would have been better to see how he continues to play the game without my interference but I kinda want to try and this is me trying

VOTE: Dunnstral

I've never seen this spiffy before. How refreshing.

[Bell]

A Math wagon is really boring and unhelpful
Join this one instead!

No.

[Bell]

A Math wagon is really boring and unhelpful
Join this one instead!

No.

Why not?

Joke answer: Because he's my scum partner.

Actual answer: I've made a similar case on Dunnstral before and he was town in that game. I'm not going to say he's town in this one, but I'm more cautious about it and it seems like scum are pretty happy to vote Dunnstrall, but not Mathblade.

[Bell]

Titus feels off.

[Bell]

Though, it would make sense for her to be less willing to go to bat for Math since she spent two full games defending him when he was scum (for the purposes of honesty I will note both times she did klll her brother with her own hands..eventually)
I don't think a policy elimination is even close to warranted for Math. I just think he's scum. He's not a true negative presence in games (on the other hand, I don't policy eliminate anyone, so).

[Bell]

seems like scum are pretty happy to vote Dunnstrall, but not Mathblade.

Name names please

It really depends whether Dunn is scum or not. I don't think his reactions are too out of sorts with his current town meta.

I've felt Titus was off from the beginning of the game. Rather, she seemed kinda happy and I know she wanted to roll scum this game, but that's town so meh. I'm not in love with it. I have a lot of mixed reads.

@Dunnstrall, why did you mean you read me loud and clear btw? I literally had not idea what you were referring to.

Also, I didn't give Spiffeh a town read, I said it was refreshing from Spiffy that he didn't just copy paste his posts for once.

[Bell]

"for the purposes of honesty"?

early wagon on math is town indicative as scum prob doesn't bus math Day 1.

People get mad when incomplete information about themselves is given. I was cutting that out from the root. Because if I didn't say she eventually voted Math, I would have mplied she defended Math the whole game and never changed her mind.

[Bell]

i dont trust myself to read you Bell, you always look scummy to me

Sure.

I don't agree that Titus is probably town.

I feel like there are two factions in this game and I'm not sure which one is mixed with scum. But one faction is larger than the other, so I'll just go ahead and say the larger faction has more scum. Rather than factions I'd say there's 2 reads lists being thrown about.

Sure, Math. I agree that based on previous posts you've made, that your town games and scum games are probably similar in wording and sentence structure. Even though I've never played with town you. I don't see much reason for you to lie about that, though I'm sure there are differences.

[Bell]

i dont trust myself to read you Bell, you always look scummy to me

i dont trust myself to read you Bell, you always look scummy to me

Sure.

I don't agree that Titus is probably town.

I feel like there are two factions in this game and I'm not sure which one is mixed with scum. But one faction is larger than the other, so I'll just go ahead and say the larger faction has more scum. Rather than factions I'd say there's 2 reads lists being thrown about.

Sure, Math. I agree that based on previous posts you've made, that your town games and scum games are probably similar in wording and sentence structure. Even though I've never played with town you. I don't see much reason for you to lie about that, though I'm sure there are differences.

Bell there’s only one scum faction per the OP. It says 4 mafia. If you’re feeling there’s two scum groups then either there is a traitor or there’s a town group pocketed by scum.

No I meant there are two groups of players with similar reads.
One group is pretty convinced Prism is town.
One group is pretty supportive of LLD, while another group resists it.

Note the LLD group is not nearly as fixated on Dunnstrall in rhetoric as the players pushing his wagon, but they're not really against it either. So there's not much of a lack of consensus on Dunnstral, so yeah. If we're just going by votes and that no one is defending him except town me, then there could be a problem there. Or, just Scum bussing and hoping to get convinced to jump off or will pretend to get bored, or maybe they wagoned Dunnstrall early hoping interest would die off if they bussed a buddy early though this puts a lot of attention on him, but best of luck with that.

I'm saying a lot of words, but the observation probably isn't even that important. I would just ignore this post.

I'm not able to read Math's confidence in his reads. Whenever I get hard town read like that my initial position is to unvote them. It's a dumb instinct.

[Bell]

Pretty sure we're in the elimination phase of the game now.

[Bell]

I reread and think the Dunnstrall wagon is now blatantly anti-town.
Get off or claim scum.

[Bell]

Bell here is proper procedure for dismantling wagons you don't like:

-> Identify player(s) that is scummy on said wagon
-> Explain in charismatic detail why they are scummy, be sure to use buzzwords such as "opportunistic" to help drive the point home
-> Vote for them and urge others to do the same

Saying over and over that's it's a bad/scummy wagon without elaboration will accomplish nothing, and only makes me want to keep my vote here just to spite you for doing so

The pattern you're describing is why Bell is falling in my reads. The only reason I haven't voted him is because this Bell appears to be trying and that's a town Bell indicator. His pushes are vapid, empty and shading.

The only reason you haven't voted me is because voting me would probably get you wagoned.

[Bell]

Anyway, I point my finger and said fire. You guys decided that instead of trying to look in the direction my finger was pointing that it would be a better use of your time to look at who was pointing it. This shows a lack of interest in reading Dunnstrall. Or anyone else really.

Thanks for the guide Spiffeh. I still have the last guide you gave me.

[Bell]

Bell here is proper procedure for dismantling wagons you don't like:

-> Identify player(s) that is scummy on said wagon
-> Explain in charismatic detail why they are scummy, be sure to use buzzwords such as "opportunistic" to help drive the point home
-> Vote for them and urge others to do the same

Saying over and over that's it's a bad/scummy wagon without elaboration will accomplish nothing, and only makes me want to keep my vote here just to spite you for doing so

The pattern you're describing is why Bell is falling in my reads. The only reason I haven't voted him is because this Bell appears to be trying and that's a town Bell indicator. His pushes are vapid, empty and shading.

The only reason you haven't voted me is because voting me would probably get you wagoned.

I don't care if I do get wagoned or not. I care about being correct when I fire. This shit can rapidly devolve into too many chefs in the kitchen. So I'll work with others on my unknowns until I'm ready to call my shot.

But just for good measure.

VOTE: Bell
VOTE: Dunn

Whenever you're ready to put some bite behind your bark, come at me.

If you cared about being correct when you fire, you wouldn't be voting Dunnstrall while saying that it was for VCA that you supported it.
You wouldn't have voted at all. You'd have just let it be.

[Bell]

I reread and think the Dunnstrall wagon is now blatantly anti-town.
Get off or claim scum.

I take your threat and raise you a literally no one cares

I take your idleness and call you scum for it. You're not hunting.

[Bell]

I reread and think the Dunnstrall wagon is now blatantly anti-town.
Get off or claim scum.

I take your threat and raise you a literally no one cares

I take your idleness and call you scum for it. You're not hunting.

I'm doing more hunting then your crappy potshots so far this game

All I see you doing is sitting on a wagon and asking people to think for you.

[Bell]

I don't think anyone can ISO me and then objectively say that's what I have been doing this game

And yet this is town bell thinking it. You’ll have to live with that regardless of your alignment when the games over.

[Bell]

Not budging, it's unfortunate that your mathtown playbook is so close to your scum math playbook if you're town this game.
I think I'm just uncritically comparing every card you throw. The "wait, listen I have reasons but it would be anti-town to say so" is stripped from mbos6.

I'm not sure how to get a more nuanced read of you and how to reverse my read of you if you are town tbh. /:

[Bell]

Not budging, it's unfortunate that your mathtown playbook is so close to your scum math playbook if you're town this game.
I think I'm just uncritically comparing every card you throw. The "wait, listen I have reasons but it would be anti-town to say so" is stripped from mbos6.

I'm not sure how to get a more nuanced read of you and how to reverse my read of you if you are town tbh. /:

So you don’t read between the lines damn. That sucks okay then. Guess I will just have to keep being myself then.

You're probably talking about ongoing games. But I'm

mumbles

[Bell]

Oh. okay.
well the issue there is that you hope people read between the lines with whatever fake idea is in your head as scum too. So it's like, how do I tell the difference?

[Bell]

Please don't tell me you think I'm a doctor or that I crumbed something or that I made some reference to the show I haven't watched a single episode of.

[Bell]

I will find a shoe to throw at you if you did.

[Bell]

*throws a shoe at you*
It was a reference to Tenet a game I played with half the people in here where everyone thought I crumbed an even-night doctor role when none of them was a reference to being a doctor. I was just talking about my job search as a registered Nurse.
I also, happened to be a doctor that game. I don't actually crumb roles as either alignment. I've said this before. It remains true.

[Bell]

The reason I randomly capitalized the doCter was because I was on my phone in that game and it randomly capitalizes letters which made people think I was an even night doc. Or something. I forgot whether it was even or odd.

Anyway, I've successfully read between the lines and all I got is that it was a terribly shallow read of me and that you would have been significantly better off just reading my posts to determine I was town this game.

[Bell]

Fuck you guys. <3.

[Bell]

That was also a joke. It was a reference to nursing because we need a bunch of doctors notes to do a bunch of different procedures. I intentionally capitalized doctor to continue the gag.
Did everyone just forgot that I told everyone in that game I don't crumb?

[Bell]

That was also a joke. It was a reference to nursing because we need a bunch of doctors notes to do a bunch of different procedures. I intentionally capitalized doctor to continue the gag.
Did everyone just forgot that I told everyone in that game I don't crumb?

I was joking too, otherwise I wouldn't draw so much attention to it

True this.

[Bell]

Dunn, Bell, if you had to add one player to your town block who would it be?
And no repeating who the last player said.

The gall of throwing an ice breaker at me to melt my heart while I'm still scum reading you. (LLD obviously).
It sucks that you thought I was a doctor btw, I could easily see you doing that as scum because even I do that as scum as cover it's such an easy way to grab town cred. It would have been nice if it was something complex enough to fool me into thinking you were town or actually identifying you as town.
Oh well, maybe a way to read you will come to me this game.

Titus played the Sister Card. That's highly scummy.

Pedit: Fuck.

BM maybe. It's a close thing though.

[Bell]

Wait.
Why did Mathblade crumb his suspicion that I was a doctor in this game, like I would somehow doubt the veracity and would absolutely need to know when and where he thought I was a doc?
That's the silliest alibi if town and near self-defeating as scum.

[Bell]

That's silly and you're silly.

[Bell]

That's silly and you're silly.

Well duh. I think that’s already established

So let’s think for a minute. Do you think Dunn and Titus are TvS, SvT, TvT,SVS?

I have dinner and then I need to do some training modules.
maybe TVS? I don' really think they're strongly in conflict though. I suspect Titus, and I wiggle a bit on Dunnstral because I'm weak to peer pressure. But I don't want to wagon either of them rn.
I want to wagon you. But I need to keep my eyes open, sure. Sigh, I've spent too much time playing mafia today. Rip.

[Bell]

If you get back tonight I would be really interested as to why you want to wagon me despite doing something in your words that would be self defeating? Meaning that if I was scum I would be caught right? So then by your own words I am not scum?

I did not imply that. Nor are people models of perfect scum play or efficiency. Nor would I weigh it heavily. If I were you rn, I might be thinking you're a scum traitor crumbing that I'm a doc, but happily, I'm not that far gone yet.

[Bell]

Rules are pretty clear they don't know what an artifact does until they receive it.
Being given a choice among two is not likely to meet the definition of 'received'
My guess remains that the scum team had to wiki the two artifacts and decided based on speculation on what they do which would be best to pick.
It's also more fun that way and fits the flavor.

[Bell]

@Sangres,
f you played with somebody 3 times in a row and they were scum every time and in the next game they played with you they used the same patterns of thinking, speaking and strategies littered throughout the game, would you town read them?
I've seen everything Mathblade has to offer as scum.

Nothing he's done has moved me off of him because everything he's doing is the same as before.
His house of cards on the Doc read lacked cohesiveness. There was no, Bell seems town to based on posting and that he crumbed doc. It was just that I crumbed Doc and therefore he's my friend because he's town too. The second that collapse he just latched on to the next thing and did an interest check on a Bell wagon.

If Math is scum here, you just fell for those tricks and strategies that he uses to fake a town mindset and earn a town read.
If Math is town, I'm just too stuck on shallow pattern recognition like I was with Shellyc. I wish I could recognize depth to his thinking, but it looks shallow to me.

[Bell]

As for Dunnstrall, I remain totally unmoved by any argument made about it because he hasn't done a single scummy thing this game. Spiffeh's argument that he's been disappointing isn't the first nor the last time Dunnstrall will have been called scum for playing anemically day 1.

I'd give the odds of him flipping scum 4/17, probably less just because the only person arguing against the wagon is a townsperson.

[Bell]

Bell,

Nacho's gone for the night and I'm not far behind.

This is not falling on deaf ears.

The quick polarizations in this game make me nervous. I'd love to hash out thoughts on some other players tomorrow if you'll be around. Maybe battle mage, Titus and Kitty Trauma Team as a start?

Sure. I'm not sure how much I'll be around though. These last three days I had spare time. But I'm skeptical It'll remain that way for long.

[Bell]

Hi, today was crazy busy.

Bork is here. That's about all I got. Town binning me was a little too late to mean much of anything to me.

[Bell]

The wifom post about wanting to die if he rolled scum in this plist, I swear he's posted before as scum so take it with that good ol' grain o' salt.
Prism is biased on Bork due to the nature of their approach to Bork.

I don't lean one way or another with Bork.
Put me in the Prism is a scum read because of paranoia at appearing fairly spotless read. Or 'I hate people that have every post bleed town read'

Yes, I am useless ty for saying so.

[Bell]

My scum list rn, is something Like Sircakez, Titus, XXX,

and a lot of null reads.

Spiffeh has moved up in life just because he's playing originally and it doesn't seem to just be a one off. Could be he is trying to up his scum game, but meh. Who knows.

[Bell]

hey, Hey Spiffeh.
If you're going to tell me not to post any posts attacking Mathblade you can't turn around and spend it defending him.

[Bell]

I am uninspired now Spiffeh.
You're uninspiring me.

[Bell]

Math, Mastina, Cakez.
Titus.
Bork, Kittens,
Tammy. Quest
Paranoia read: Prism.
GrayIce, Pooky.
Dunstrall
Sangres, Spiffeh, BM, LLD, Bell.

Good night.

[Bell]

Prism is biased on Bork due to the nature of their approach to Bork.

? Unclear what you mean by bias/nature of approach here. Bork was chosen at random to get the artifact, with the qualifier that I did at least trust he was competent enough to leave him on the list. You weren't in 2181, are you referring to that game?

Put me in the Prism is a scum read because of paranoia at appearing fairly spotless read. Or 'I hate people that have every post bleed town read'

I don't get your positioning around me. You've repeatedly alluded to my posts being town all game. To my knowledge, you have never once seen me flip scum beyond the first post of FGO, and until two weeks ago my record as scum was virtually nonexistent. You did similar weird shit in Xenoblade, where we were both town and where the action I wanted (you to drive us) was more ambiguous in my incentive for it. In contrast, this game the incentive as town is very unambiguous.

It's unclear to me if you're saying all of my posting is town/spotless, or that I'm trying to keep myself spotless by gratuitously giving townreads. If this is the case, do you think the plan with my gamestart was for me to go deep over powertowning to burn 2/3 miselims?

I actually worked through this on my own, and in conjunction with realizing you didn't actually call my posts town think most of this has been answered, but I'll leave the post as-is because I think the question above is a bit of an inconsistency worth chewing on.

You gave Bork a test and the answers to the test were fairly clear and unlikely to be tripped by scum.
Yes, because I think you’re good scum and playing a spotless town game, I am putting you through an additional layer of skepticism. You can chew on it if you’d like. But i’m disinterested as to whether you think I’m shading you or not.

[Bell]

Best of luck to you. If you’re scum this game and keep up your posting I’d nom you for a scummy if they weren’t closed right now.

[Bell]

No.
It’s very much in character for me to want things town should want as town.
I’m not a difficult read. Pretty much everybody that matters already thinks I’m town this game.
And I will not let them or you forget it.

Food tell

[Bell]

No.
It’s very much in character for me to want things town should want as town.
I’m not a difficult read. Pretty much everybody that matters already thinks I’m town this game.
And I will not let them or you forget it.

Food tell

I am very, very glad I went to lunch and a walk before making this.

The issue is not you being paranoid or not townreading me. The issue is that any attempt to dialogue with you across three different fucking games has been met with outright hostility and refusal to exercise even the most rudimentary level of critical thinking when presented with feedback on your thought processes. Simultaneously, I am apparently god herself because I made a fucking horrendous opening post in FGO that the one player who knew me correctly identified it as a hard scumclaim. I replaced out of illicit half because of you, half because ffery was being annoying. I tolerated you in Xenoblade because I had petapan. I considered dodging this game for several players in the list and you are one of them. I no longer consider the first an option, and petapan is not here. You are not scum right now, but if we lose later because you won't fucking dialogue with me and say "It's obvious", I will not feel even remotely sorry for you.

Sit down, and think to yourself again whether "spotless go deep scumplay" matches up even remotely with page 1 of the game, and do better.

I am sorry that you felt this way about me and did not enjoy playing with me. Without expressing your feelings directly I won't notice your frustrations.

I shut down dialogue about whether or not I am scum or whether or not my thinking makes sense because engaging people on their read of me is unpleasant for me and rarely feels productive. I will explain my thinking, but "does it make sense for Bell to be this paranoid on day 1 about me given I posted like once in FGO and he is using that as the basis for his opinion of me doesn't make sense." I refer to the idea of how foundational (by necessity really) first impressions are and they rarely go away. I did not feel like going through the minor frustrations of articulating myself on that, not because I'm scum, but because it's just hard to explain how I felt about your posts in FGO and how when reisoing your slot later in that game turned me away from thinking you were scum and how that was problematic for the game state at the time. Because I felt that your early post was distinctly townie in appearance. Now somebody being famliar with your play an calling it a scum claim is great and all but I didn't know that nor was I likely going to give them the time of day on a swipe read like that, that they made in jest and didn't even follow it up with a vote.

Likewise, I don't see why me asking for the comb is in anyway concerning, sure I could have been scum and if you were town that distrust might have made you feel afraid, but given you also self-voted for it, as did others you should be able to understand why I would want it. You quoted me mentioning I wanted it because I was town and agreed with me later. . You linked that post but did not articulate what about me self voting and asking for the comb was problematic, so I either had to guess or.

I mean, just reading what I've written so fair, I'm like, why did I even write all this? What good will it do? and iunno, but I'll respect your feelings on this matter and answer your questions when you ask.

[Bell]

Eh, even from FGO, I pretty much just spammed that I wanted to be elected without articulating why it would be a good idea until later vaguely. It turned people off there too (well, some of them).

I mean, comparing yourself to me in terms of how to make an attempt to get the artifact is a false start. I could see why you might think you could discern my alignment from my answer, but everyone thins differently and approaches the game differently or rather we all have our own little idiosyncrasies. It's just something to sort through to dodge basing alignments on those (non-alignment) idiosyncrasies.

[Bell]

[quote="In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net
I shut down dialogue about whether or not I am scum or whether or not my thinking makes sense because engaging people on their read of me is unpleasant for me and rarely feels productive.

Anyone who compulsively shuts down any scumread of them whether they're town or scum has made themselves a deeply unpleasant player.

Discussion of your alignment is always unproductive

for you

because at the start of the game penguin_alien sent you your alignment. Therefore there's no discussion that could be possibly productive

for you

because it's absolute factual knowledge that you already possess. It's productive for every player in the game that's not you, excepting perhaps your hypothetical scumbuddies (were you scum).

When you sign up to play a game of mafia, you're signing up for a game where your words, intentions, alignment, reads, and everything about your posts will be doubted. Now you can call out bad arguments. But attempting to shut down any possible discussion of it

having voluntarily, of your own free will signed up for a game you knew it would happen in

makes you a deeply unpleasant person to play mafia with.

Have some fucking empathy. Everyone else is playing the game with the same understanding and limitations, and most of us are town trying to figure things out. In fact in every game most of everyone is town trying to figure things out.

In other words, you're being an ass. Chill.

We all have our own level of sensitivity and I try to respect each person's desire to have fun. Which is why I explained myself and stated I would adapt. Prism did not make it known to me that they were frustrated or that I contributed to them replacing out. Now that I know what annoys them, I can work with them to make their experience more pleasant (hopefully).

[Bell]

This post is town as fuck

No it's not, it's NAI. I'd make that post to anyone regardless of my alignment. In fact it's probably a good example of something that I'd often call "belongs in Mafia Discussion" because I could transplant it there almost word for word without breaking site rules.

It's just a post I felt like making

Both of them are.

Classifications are not so easily called.
But in this case? I believe it's NAI for Prism to bring up something that genuinely annoyed them as either alignment and I encourage anyone else to come forward and talk to me at any time about any issues they have with me. I do want everyone to have fun if I'm getting in the way of that, I want to know.

[Bell]

I am confused at both Dunnstrall and Math.

Dunnstrall because yeah, Math clearly wasn't being serious.
Math because nobody either town or scum would be fooled by that (....Except dunnstrall who missed it). So the winks are another incredibly shallow attempt for people to solve the minor puzzle of whether Math can fake the shallowest of town mindsets.

[Bell]

Oh, hottest take Mastina is scum.

Also, I will be upset if Titus, Mathblade and Mastina are all town. That would suck.
I miss quiet.

[Bell]

On break.
Can you explain why spiffy and I are null reads cakez?

I’m hesitant to pile on esp. given your reads lists is kind of out there and I can feel some of that shift onto your head. But I gotta ask anyway.

[Bell]

My reads ain't moving much.

I would rethink Spiffeh, Cakez, he's either town or this is scum him on a good day I guess.

@Bm, Why do you want more reads lists?

[Bell]

Summary of math's recent posts: "Please change your mind LLD."

Is that an unfair, reductionist argument?

[Bell]

I am struggling to articulate a read on Titus that doesn't involve a hilarious amount of speculation.
I think a good summary would be conflicted.

She was a scum read earlier, just because while she was kind of repeating the same dance with you, it felt different. I articulated that she felt off.
She still feels off. What does that mean? I dunno. Shouldn't I have something better by now? Probably.

[Bell]

The part I should explain is trying to stop TVT fighting and getting people to work on a wagon they can all agree with.

While trying to smack LLD with constant reminders of hey silly still town here and still wrong and will elim scum despite you not noticing the obvious.

We all worked on a wagon that we all agreed with, scum would agree with it too.
I can tell that you are trying to smack LLD, which is just that. "It's a please change your mind, I tried the carrot. Now I shall try the stick." But it just feels clumsy to me.

[Bell]

The second dose of the vaccine triggers a stronger immune response, unfortunately(well, not unfortunately, that's the point, but too strong and you end up with...Kuribo fever).

[Bell]

I would rethink Spiffeh

Stopped reading and disregarded the rest of this post.

It's too bad, given that was me telling him to town read you.

[Bell]

Mastina, please self-vote and wait your turn.

[Bell]

I'm town lurking, not scum lurking.

I'm just gunna sheep LLD day one.
I will state the only player I will probably vote not named Mathblade this day phase is Mastina.

[Bell]

Lunch break. I concur. I’ve been following all of math’s posts and unlike spiffeh who eventually seems to have finally rolled town I just don’t get that feel from math at all.

[Bell]

ISO me.
Your reasoning is shallow.
Your actions are repetitive.
Your AtE is manipulative.

Gotta go.

[Bell]

I’ll have time on the weekend to meet your request that I meet your standards for a proper scum read.

[Bell]

Disagree with ya Spiffeh. Mathblade is usually the center of attention in every game I've been with him in. It's a combination of attention grabbing moon takes, activity, and head butting.

[Bell]

*sigh*

VOTE: Titus

E-2? or E-1.

She already claimed.

[Bell]

disagree. If someone wants to die, you look around and see who seems to be shifting responsibility so they don't look bad on Town flip.

[Bell]

I'm just going to be quiet here.
There's little point picking a fight over a grave.

[Bell]

UNVOTE:

[Bell]

VOTE: Mastina
VOTE: Mathblade
VOTE: KTT
VOTE: Quiet


VOTE: MathBlade

[Bell]

I mostly just want to know what Nacho has to say about Tammy and when he can be 100% sure if she's town or scum.

[Bell]

My 2 attempts at reading you were horrible failures.

In tenet I believe I scum read you AFTER you were a mod confirmed IC.
And before that I got scum stomped by you.

I'd rather just outsource it and blame somebody else if they're wrong.

Also, you have rolled scum, recently. So, that's weird.

[Bell]

Sorry, I didn't realize you were only counting times when you rolled scum by yourself.

[Bell]

I remember when Mathblade was defeatist before Titus was even thinking defeatist thoughts this game.

[Bell]

VOTE: Mastina

[Bell]

I am going to have a stroke if I see one more astronaut take this game. I feel like I'm being trolled and baited into rage posting.
Well, I can't blame others for how I react to things. That's on me and my temperament. /:

[Bell]

Mathblade case: Per request of one(1) Mathblade.
I am not going to link to other games to support my points because it's a pain.

1. I find it pretty common that scum ask you to apply a standard of proof that they themselves never live up to. It makes it harder to eliminate them. Demanding someone make a case on you is a waste of time for the person making it while the person who benefits most from it is the person asking for the case. Mathblade is quite willing and able to pounce on any verbal mistake or contradiction to save himself while discrediting the case maker. Moving on.

2. Math is a fighter. He will continue to wiggle and flail until he is dead. He almost always is the center of attention and he is almost always one of the highest posters in a game as scum. This is not unique to his town game.

3. The town PR misunderstanding tactic. Mathblade as scum will go off on tangents of moon logic, it is not unique to his town game. There is a big temptation to write Mathblade off as too insane to be scum. Don't. He's quite able to be insane as scum, he knows what gets him town read, as long as he continuously fake hunts with whatever ideas come to mind eventually people will give up. Mathblade has no subtlety this game. Every PR he has thought he has identified he has immediately reacted to with the subtlety of a 3rd grader. Benefiting nobody but his own image as "look, I am thinking about PR's, Look I am subtly implying that this person is a PR without screaming it from the roof tops wink wink so pro town* (it's not protown).

4. Mathblade is a hypocrite. Before Titus was a defeatist. Mathblade was a defeatist that thought he was absolutely going to be the elimination today based on forecasting. He then spent the rest of the game being the ultimate survivalist. When Titus started talking defeatist stuff, he immediately took a 180, cribbed off of the logic that Gray and LLD have for killing people that don't want to play and applying it for simple cover (never mind that I strongly disagree that Titus wants to be eliminated because thinking "I'm going to be eliminated" is not the same thing as "I want to be eliminated", it is a self-fulfilling prophecy sure, but it's a misinterpretation of intent).

5. Mathblade is misrepresenting people's feelings around his play because it's more convenient to be the victim of a policy elimination than it is to be scum read for reasons. Multiple people have noted that Titus might be scum partners with Mathblade. Given the way she pushed at him as a policy. But this just wasn't true of LLD's opinions about him, but he made them into them and ignored her arguing to the contrary because it's easier to dig in then change your mind which would require him to defend his actions than to reduce the argument that people just dislike him and don't think he's any good.

6. He made an appeal to utility, an appeal to fear and an appeal for sympathy. All of them manipulative. I'm useful I won't let you down! You're going to regret eliminating me (a claimed VT day 1), "People just want to eliminate me because the think I suck, that's not fair!"

Anddd. I could probably go on but I don't really want to. I hate writing things.

[Bell]

Tangential: Quiet replacing out upticks him as scum. I also think it makes sense for SirCakez to take that position of sympathy and also think it's entirely possible if quiet is a university student or whatnot that he just repped to focus on that stuff. It's difficult to prove. whatever combination of reasons led to him leaving. A better player could probably interpret the quiet stances on rep out and figure out alignments.
Alas. I am bad.

[Bell]

@Sangres, yes some of my points were addressed to people that had made arguments that he was town. I was cutting down those arguments first.
The only real reason I'm scum reading him is survivalism and a shallow thought process, well that and horrific opportunism and a feeling he doesn't have a single scum read he cares for. I felt like cold water got thrown on me from his post in response to me. But then I realized it was, "actually, I am town and I've done nothing wrong" a mere confidence game argument. Won't lie though I am shook because I'm weak to confidence gaming. I still don't understand why his internal reasoning is so goddang shallow for his town and scum reads. The only time he seemed to break through that was on Titus and then he just went the easy route and I can see motivation for him to check on his sister as either alignment really.

Mastina's read of Titus gives me pause. Not because I disagree, but because I have noticed that fatalistic impulse from town Titus. But I'm not sure what it means that Mastina knows it too and obliviously, I have reached no conclusion like Mastina quickly does whenever she sees anything. I'm not sure about Titus for the simple reason that I'm not sure how far down the fatalism rabbit hole or thought process disruptions go to where you think the page limit is a serious issue.

The only thing its done really is made it slightly harder to read Tammy and KTT.

[Bell]

I used less words, but you demanded I use more words. Normally I would have ignored the request.
I do not create nor ever want to create associations and a full team solve. The more assumptions I make the more likely I am to make a mistake. I keep that sort of effort for elo.

For example say I'm wrong on you and you aren't scum which isn't even that unlikely just from a random dice roll perspective.
Why would I argue you were partnered with X, when I don't even know you're scum yet? Why go through the extra effort of doing so?
I also don't care how far down your read of me goes. If I did, I wouldn't be scum reading you or anyone at all unless they're into that.

I've explained what is shallow about your reasoning in regards to how you recognize and approach people you think are PR's. I accused you of having shallow thoughts. If you had deep motivations you would presumably share them at my prompting. This is not a demand for you to share every single thing that pops into your head (please don't). It is an observation that when I look at your approach I don't see a style of thoughtfulness. In every game you've played as scum with me (except Cell games) you've had town's people point at you and say "you aren't thinking good, but I think you're town, here's how to think better." They're the suckers that keep you alive well past when you should live.

You are capable of having a deeper rationale an explaining yourself, you even do it automatically in some of your scum PT's. I'm tired of putting a hedge at the end of every post, so just assume I said, "and I know mathblade could be town here, because I've never played with town him" after every post.

[Bell]

That's a single narrative spin when there are branching narratives and explanations for your observations.
Your premises and conclusions aren't rigorous enough. In part because there isn't enough information to make an informed decision or rather the relevant information has not come to your attention.
For example, if you knew every role in this game but not who is aligned with which role, you'd probably be able to make a fair guess as to whether Prism was scum or not.
There is the question of habit and approach to people based on their scum play. For example, my one recent experience with Bork is that he's tough on wording, but asks relatively shallow questions to his scum partners. He makes sure to interact with them, but he doesn't make them a hard focus. So for example if he kept talking and talking with Mastina you could argue that the probability that Mastina and bork are scum together is less than random. But the pool of data is too small and people do stuff differently each game so really I just used a flimsy anecdote and overgeneralized Bork's behavior toward his partners. My premise is shit, so my conclusion is also shit.

[Bell]

Ngl, though it defeats my purpose.
I'm getting shakier too.

My feelings on Bork can be summarized as a blank face.

Yeah, your posts are longer Tammy. I don't think you've been inactive at all though, that's not what I meant. I tend to think that players make slightly longer, less frequent posts compared to their town selves as scum. But yeah, I have little to no confidence I can read you.
I think I'm the only one Sring KTT. They're putting in a lot of effort though. So maybe I'm just hallucinating.

[Bell]

@Dunstrall, Bork. Yeet targets?

I'm waiting on Nacho. TBH.
I am losing convinction on MB scum.

Town block RN is just Sangres, Spiffeh, LLD today. Which isn't good enough based on my experience in Tenet. If I want to win through PoE I need to solve faster tbh.

[Bell]

No to all of those.
I can’t read Tammy.
KTT has written a lot, but their takes are lukewarm.
And somehow they aren’t voting anyone. (For Tammy indecision seems to be normal? for mala and kuribo I have no idea why they haven’t murder tunneled somebody yet).

They’re both in my meh reads.

[Bell]

Please substantiate your confidence in Tammy and KTT.
That doesn’t begin and end with it being a good idea to TR the two people who aren’t voting anybody.

Sir Cakez I’ve seen flashes of townieness, but that’s it. He’s also been a source of shade and been attacked in turn. Some of his scum instincts seem to have flipped. For example he would probably as scum push quiet to be the elimination this dp but is instead doing sort of the opposite. Titus’s attack on that, I’m not sure where she’s coming from.

Titus: no fucking clue. Consider me disordered and discombobulated in regards to her play this game. I agreed with your take that Titus is not playing like scum or town her until you asked and then it got more complicated and muddled.

[Bell]

I don’t get why you would want me to town block with people you aren’t fully comfortable with. Town blocks can lose games.

[Bell]

I don’t get why you would want me to town block with people you aren’t fully comfortable with. Town blocks can lose games.

1) Because it’s Day One. 75% ish confidence is my threshold for day one.
2) Yes, town blocks can lose games and I generally despise them. However the mechanics of artifacts require us to know who we’re giving artifacts to in the morning phase. So it’s much more important to be right on townreads than scum ones as it will be foundational to the entire game.

Neither of these reasons answer the fundamental question.

If it’s day one and you have no confidence beyond random don’t suggest a town block.
The mechanics of artifact giving and wifom and fog of war whatever etc, I don’t want to discuss.

[Bell]

BM is v/la every weekend.

[Bell]

Town blocks are not town reads.
I am town reading BM. But I’m not town blocking him. He also went down some just due to the nature of the beast.

[Bell]

I was waiting for Nacho, but now that I know he won't be posting I'm okay moving forward with a Mastina elimination.

[Bell]

Dunnstrall seemed normal on entrance. He made some early awkward fumbles on questioning that I don't really understand. I do not want to out a softed power role.
I do not understand why Dunnstrall is slow rolling his thoughts given that he's not going to be night killed for at least 4 game days or more.

Because Mastina's view point is such that she is asking that I trust her in a game of mafia using an appeal to authority. Her view is narrow.

[Bell]

Eh, I really like your town game (can't say what your scum game is like), so you're kind of below expectations so I thought maybe you were intentionally not giving more standoutish opinions because you were somehow worried you'd be nked.
I really don't think you're going to be nked for a while, I don't I will either even though I'm close to universally town read at this point I think.

[Bell]

Spicy take: Bell is traitor telling Dunn why is scum not hammering Titus but I think that’s a bit too moonlogicky.

Insert expression of outrage and surprise that Mathblade thinks there's a traitor in this game.
Meh, you've never played with scum me, so I guess I could see why you as town might suspect me of being scum instead of everybody else that knows my scum game is shit.

[Bell]

Bell, I do not follow and your townread is tanking fast.
Let’s take a look at what you’re saying but instead of Mastina replace it with scumread

Because a scumread’s view point is such that she is asking that I trust the scumread in a game of mafia using an appeal to authority. The scumread’s view is narrow.

Of course scumread’s view is narrow definitionally, they’re scum. So try again, why Mastina over Titus? When scum Mastina wants to be elimmed over Titus?

This is exactly what happened in Boonskiies that I took advantage of as scum. I manipulated the RA hydra into continuing to push Angel to the point Angel scum claimed (as town) to protect sequence. At best Mastina is deluded town here. At worst she’s scum who wants Titus alive. Her reads are crap and her mechanics are crap and LLD’s take her list and flip it upside down is better than right side up imho (exception LLD obvi)

No. I responded to your first post because Prism asked me to answer questions. This accusation is beyond the pale and I want you to die now. I am an omgus fish and you've activated my omgus.

VOTE: Mathblade

[Bell]

BM, please don't discuss ongoing games.

*takes a breath*

Mathblade, No. My town read should not be tanking fast for this or any other post I've made this game. You're baiting me. For whatever reason. This "one time when I was in another game I did this!" comparison is lazy and ridiculous because I don't play anything like you.

[Bell]

Interesting.

So it’s Titus+Bell or Titus + Mastina and not both.

And FYI your play has been shit and you’ve been poking me to try to inflate post count.

You refuse to give reads despite being asked by multiple people. You can die.

How the hell does a Prism post respond into any of this when I literally just asked why Mastina over Titus?

You’re not making any sense here Bell.

1. Nah, I've explained most of my reads. You're pretty much lying to my face/gaslighting me and you can die for that
2. Okay, no I don't think I've been the one poking you to get you to inflate your post count. That isn't a logical thing to blame me for because you're responsible for your own post count. You've multiple times asked me for reads and our back and forth has stretched for an incredible length which has benefited you almost exclusively because *i'm* not at risk of being getting into a fist fight with me, makes me appear tunneled and nobody wants to get near that kind of negative interaction.

[Bell]

Insert expression of outrage and surprise that Mathblade thinks there's a traitor in this game.

I mean regardless of his alignment, MathBlade ALWAYS thinks there's a traitor in the game.

Like, legitimately, he has like...suggested a traitor in most of his games, and always posits the existence of one in scum PTs even when the setup would provably say there aren't any.

That said it is something I tend to, overall, see more from scum-MB than town-MB tho.

This whole post is a buddy post. My post was very obviously sarcasm. You know I'm aware of the meme in addition because I joked about it in the Cell PT which you were part of and undoubtedly read.

Or maybe I'm just being an unfriendly person.

1692 @Sangres, @Spiffeh. @LLD. Thoughts on this post?

[Bell]

1692# was a math post.

Meh, it's all right Prism. I'm following along on your posts.

VOTE: Mastina

[Bell]

Classic Kuribo. <3.
Like water off a duck's back.

[Bell]

We have 17 pages and 24 hours remaining, we can stop with the theatrics about not wanting to post too much or scum ploys to make someone post a few extra times

And yes BM, that was directed at you, and no I don't think you've contributed much

Cool I can agree with that.

Bell won’t be elimmed anyway but is no longer a townread.

Don’t see how “one game I did X” is lazy. I didn’t use a meta reason for you. I did use one for Mastina.

I think Titus is a very good elim today.

Opening this question up for everyone.
What do they think of this post.

Bbl. zoom meeting.

[Bell]

I'll probably be choosing between mastina and Titus today

Unless SirCakez really shits the bed in his posts the last ten pages I don't really want to go there today

KTT why the puke emojis?

I am kinda torn. I townread the entire Titus wagon except Cakez.

But my townreads are saying Titus is town.
If Titus is town then Mastina is probably town,
So then Cakez?

That’s where I am confused on but I don’t like the wagon on Cakez as it has majority of my PoE.
Also Cakez posting this page of buddying me is crap as it’s well known I have a predisposition towards scumreading Titus

You know what: Fuck it.

VOTE: SirCakez

You guys.

[Bell]

Yay, work done early.

So I really only want Mathblade or Mastina gone today.

I'm against Cakez RN.
I'm slightly less against Titus elim. But I am still against.

NGL, I want Mathblade dead badly. He's trying to manipulate or alter the game state and I don't know why but the "you guys" post and 1642(or was it 1682?) hard pinged me for scum.

[Bell]

Too many hards pushes by people I suspect near deadline. Earns a hard no. Scum want him dead and they're not fake bussing him and secretly hoping we murder someone else.

Also, I like sme of his posts. I'm not ruling him out for scum, but he has a shiny town spark.
Also, I hate ethics tells and find them unreliable but I'm not sure Sircakez would have the balls to hit you while you were down as scum him. But my ethics tells suck.

[Bell]

mastina's play is a bit weird as either alignment. Why would she take a dive for me when we largely have the same skillset and I am worse mentally atm? No scum is worth sacrificing themselves to save me. It's a negative EV as either alignment, so I lean town on that.

I really hard doubt that she thought she would get eliminated for defending you as either alignment this game day tbh.

[Bell]

We are not flash wagoning Dunnstrall.

Either Mastina or mathblade.
Pick one.

[Bell]

I'm not blind Cakez. His recent posts were horrific though and I would entertain a wagon on him within any feasible time frame.

[Bell]

I was very prepared to have little agency in the final vote but after seeing that mastina is actually very possible/likely, and that we have the votes to essentially force it, I've become pretty determined to see mastina through.

Still want LLD's opinion.

This. Not budging.

[Bell]

That is a fucking BEAUTIFUL 6 person votesquad, though the 3 people on Titus are pretty solid too.

Both the Dunn/Cakez are comparatively uhhhh fucking disgusting

I don’t. Bell + BM have been in my PoE awhile

Titus wagon is prolly pure but my townreads think she’s town

Admittedly two people in my PoE are on Dunn but they’re the more conditional ones.

I am willing to hammer Mastina if it comes to that but it just seems off.

Holy fuck. HOW CAN ANYONE BE TOWN READING THIS.
Look at this post. Every line is a scum claim.

[Bell]

yo Bell, check it out^

I'm aware. But he's been trying to split wagons/divert attention half this game phase.
he's been muddying the waters and wifoming it up for half the day phase.

[Bell]

I am death tunneled on MathBlade.
I will not shut up about him until he's dead. He is obvious scum.

[Bell]

No.
Back On Mastina. He's not dumb enough to so obviously TMI without hoping for a derail. He is baiting us.

[Bell]

i wish bell was more co-operative and less militant

Sorry.

[Bell]

was it spiffeh who was trying to argue mathblade wasn't opportunistic and survivalistic? whoever it was, needs a serious re-think. and any sane vig should be shooting Mathblade tonight.

BM+SirCakez+Bell+Quiet? Spitballing here. I think this fits?

(For the record while Bell is town it is posts like these which're why I am voting SirCakez over MathBlade because while MathBlade looks scum by play, he is at least mostly fingering the correct people as being scum.)

For the record--I actually legit think Battle Mage has moved to my strongest scumread here, but I don't think I can wagon him.
So, still voting SirCakez even tho BM is now my strongest scumread.

Why do you think Bell is town when his ISO is focused exclusively on me despite attempts to see how he sees the rest of the game and blatantly ignoring questions about his reads

This is a person who has closely read my posts and is absolutely hunting this game. I am a wasteland in which no reads or opinions spring forth. They not fake tunneled and asking obligatory questions and are absolutely curious as to Mastina's opinion on my play this game for they could be wrong.

[Bell]

Likewise, I am wowed by Mastina's insight and persuasiveness on her town case of me, Dunnstrall and others. She is very likely to convince others to move their votes away from Dunnstrall. Toward some other, scummy player.

[Bell]

DUNN HAS FIVE VOTES
GET YOUR ASSES ONBOARD

Sorry, why are you against Mastina so much and want the softed PR who cannot claim for us to move their wagon in time again?

Are you sure you're town siding.

[Bell]

Best explanation from Mastina so far this game is that both Dunnstrall and Mastina are town and scum are staying off Mastina to discred the high town reads when she flips while they all pile on Spiffeh's wagon to maintain plausible deniability.
I could see it. Maybe.

[Bell]

DUNN HAS FIVE VOTES
GET YOUR ASSES ONBOARD

Sorry, why are you against Mastina so much and want the softed PR who cannot claim for us to move their wagon in time again?

Are you sure you're town siding.

I don’t believe Dunn softed anything
And if you’re town and think this you never say it.
You defend their play.

Is Bell bad town or bad scum?

Is this something you should be saying after openly speculating on multiple people being power roles in thread.
Of course not, you're scum.

[Bell]

Nah. You've been pretty anti-town all game and blaming everybody but yourself for your own behavior.
You barely veiled that you thought I was a doctor before I cut you down from it.
likewise, I've been pretty open with my reads and you arguing that I haven't is just dishonest.
As is your recent posts that are pretty blatant TMI, positioning meant for you to look better next DP on a town flip and reads from significant numbers of people to the contrary who have played with me before that are pretty sure I'm town, when you've never seen my scum game.

I'm tired of you being protected because of our interactions. Your blatant currying of favor from those not voting you. Your fake incoherence when I know you are a perfectly normal person that can be cogent and strategic in a scum PT.
I apologize if I'm tunneled on ya. I've been there and been aggravated out of my mind by being tunneled before. But I'm not changing my mind on this. We can talk post game and I'll apologize if I'm wrong.
I just don't think I am.

[Bell]

I'm happy with Mathblade.

I'll be here for deadline to move vote back if needed.

[Bell]

VOTE: Mathblade

This would really help me.

[Bell]

No. But my strongest SR is Mathblade and LLD has significantly more experience with Mastina than I do. I don't understand it, but I don't want to fight her either.

[Bell]

Aight, I'm going to go gather some Mathblade posts that were particularly scummy. I'm really lazy, but you gotta put in work if you want to get what you want.
Sometimes.
Maybe.
Not really.

Man, Cakez and Pooky are like parrallel to me and Mathblade, but I feel like our fight is at the highschool level while there's is something in middle school.

[Bell]

@Dunstrall, Bork. Yeet targets?

I'm waiting on Nacho. TBH.
I am losing convinction on MB scum.

Town block RN is just Sangres, Spiffeh, LLD today. Which isn't good enough based on my experience in Tenet. If I want to win through PoE I need to solve faster tbh.

Good start of a town block. I like it. Add Kitty too and Tammy. GreyICE has to be there for today because mason claim.

I don’t get why you would want me to town block with people you aren’t fully comfortable with. Town blocks can lose games.

1) Because it’s Day One. 75% ish confidence is my threshold for day one.
2) Yes, town blocks can lose games and I generally despise them. However the mechanics of artifacts require us to know who we’re giving artifacts to in the morning phase. So it’s much more important to be right on townreads than scum ones as it will be foundational to the entire game.

I was waiting for Nacho, but now that I know he won't be posting I'm okay moving forward with a Mastina elimination.

Why Mastina and not Titus?
I would prefer a Titus elim since scum!stina doesn’t seem to want Titus elimmed.

And apologies I thought that was directed at KTT

Bell, I do not follow and your townread is tanking fast.
Let’s take a look at what you’re saying but instead of Mastina replace it with scumread

Because a scumread’s view point is such that she is asking that I trust the scumread in a game of mafia using an appeal to authority. The scumread’s view is narrow.

Of course scumread’s view is narrow definitionally, they’re scum. So try again, why Mastina over Titus? When scum Mastina wants to be elimmed over Titus?

This is exactly what happened in Boonskiies that I took advantage of as scum. I manipulated the RA hydra into continuing to push Angel to the point Angel scum claimed (as town) to protect sequence. At best Mastina is deluded town here. At worst she’s scum who wants Titus alive. Her reads are crap and her mechanics are crap and LLD’s take her list and flip it upside down is better than right side up imho (exception LLD obvi)

Interesting.

So it’s Titus+Bell or Titus + Mastina and not both.

And FYI your play has been shit and you’ve been poking me to try to inflate post count.

You refuse to give reads despite being asked by multiple people. You can die.

How the hell does a Prism post respond into any of this when I literally just asked why Mastina over Titus?

You’re not making any sense here Bell.

This is the shit Mastina does as scum.

Factually accurate but misleading.

More often than not I have had scum games. Ergo I do that thing more often as town rather than scum.

My reasons for suspecting traitor here are purely flavor related. Traitors/moles are a common theme in Warehouse 13 in the many seasons.

I skimmed mastina's posts again. Everything about this slot is absolutely horrific, entire attitude around Cakez is a complete trainwreck.

VOTE: mastina

Honestly a great vote even if she flips town

You realize this is incredibly self serving if you’re scum yeah? I don’t think you are but this shift is incredibly awkward.

Titus’s progression was solely focused and crap (can’t detail while gaming but I disagree with your Titus town opinion)

Granted I think it’s Mastina +Titus here but I don’t see why Mastina townreads Titus here if scum Mastina Town Titus?

Care to elaborate?

Btw I have work on Monday so it’s iffy if I will be around. Will try.

1541/1542 are very basic, 1548 is reactionary and mostly forced. Mastina might wind up being town but these posts would again be so trivial to fake as mafia and there is only so much I can do to help you here without being extremely patronizing lecturing you on the fundamentals of the scum alignment.

Pretty sure I don’t need the patronizing lecture considering I am one of the best scum players on site, thanks.
Anyone who is good scum like Titus, FL, Mastina, or myself think strategically. There’s an intent and purpose to everything they do. When I can’t find the intent I question if they’re scum with certain people.

Eg I can see Mastina + you (I don’t think this is true because mechanics but it is possible by play) and Mastina was tanking the case to be as bad as possible for later.

I think it’s very important if Mastina is red to ask why, doubly so if my read is wrong and she is town.

I'll probably be choosing between mastina and Titus today

Unless SirCakez really shits the bed in his posts the last ten pages I don't really want to go there today

KTT why the puke emojis?

I am kinda torn. I townread the entire Titus wagon except Cakez.

But my townreads are saying Titus is town.
If Titus is town then Mastina is probably town,
So then Cakez?

That’s where I am confused on but I don’t like the wagon on Cakez as it has majority of my PoE.
Also Cakez posting this page of buddying me is crap as it’s well known I have a predisposition towards scumreading Titus

You know what: Fuck it.

VOTE: SirCakez

was it spiffeh who was trying to argue mathblade wasn't opportunistic and survivalistic? whoever it was, needs a serious re-think. and any sane vig should be shooting Mathblade tonight.

BM+SirCakez+Bell+Quiet?

Spitballing here. I think this fits?

there is no wagon on Math really Bell

didn't math say Prism promised to vig math tonight or something? so if math survives the night, we can assume math is highly likely scum and prism also probably scum.

GreyICE said he would and he’s a claimed mason.
He could be BSing but I am pretending today is my last day

That is a fucking BEAUTIFUL 6 person votesquad, though the 3 people on Titus are pretty solid too.

Both the Dunn/Cakez are comparatively uhhhh fucking disgusting

I don’t. Bell + BM have been in my PoE awhile
Titus wagon is prolly pure but my townreads think she’s town
Admittedly two people in my PoE are on Dunn but they’re the more conditional ones.

I am willing to hammer Mastina if it comes to that but it just seems off.

was it spiffeh who was trying to argue mathblade wasn't opportunistic and survivalistic? whoever it was, needs a serious re-think. and any sane vig should be shooting Mathblade tonight.

BM+SirCakez+Bell+Quiet? Spitballing here. I think this fits?

(For the record while Bell is town it is posts like these which're why I am voting SirCakez over MathBlade because while MathBlade looks scum by play, he is at least mostly fingering the correct people as being scum.)

For the record--I actually legit think Battle Mage has moved to my strongest scumread here, but I don't think I can wagon him.
So, still voting SirCakez even tho BM is now my strongest scumread.

Why do you think Bell is town when his ISO is focused exclusively on me despite attempts to see how he sees the rest of the game and blatantly ignoring questions about his reads

DUNN HAS FIVE VOTES
GET YOUR ASSES ONBOARD

Sorry, why are you against Mastina so much and want the softed PR who cannot claim for us to move their wagon in time again?

Are you sure you're town siding.

I don’t believe Dunn softed anything
And if you’re town and think this you never say it.
You defend their play.

Is Bell bad town or bad scum?

K, these are the posts I think are scummy.

[Bell]

Hmmm

I think I have a problem with that claim.

Lemme think

I think that's a scum claim, tbh.

I now only want Cakez today.

Aight, you sure?

[Bell]

Sircakez appears to be broken.
*taps*

Calm down. Tell me town stuff.

[Bell]

I did just try to contribute to the Math is scum fund. But honestly. I just think people's eyes glazed over when I bothered to engage with him and it turned into a slap fight. You can tell from how they wrote about our interactions that they were more emotionally focused on their own discomfort and not so much reading what we were saying to each other and about other players.

Also, we are getting worryingly close to the page limit.

Decide. People.

Please just vote Mathblade and let's go to day 2. *

Or, if LLD still wants it, we can go Cakez.

Also, Pooky stop spamming or I'm going to kill you.

[Bell]

So you can check if someone used an artifact and Cakez just gets a full list of all the artifacts a player has.

We might have just outed the equivalent of a cop since he could presumably find whatever artifact is sitting in a scum member's artifact pile or find an artifact that was suspect.
On first impression it seems like a scum roll designed to find out what artifacts people have as it is close to a not-vanilla claim?
Or something?
mm.
Hmm.
Yeah I could see Cakez wanting to catch someone in a lie with this as town tbh. But it's not terribly clear.
On the other hand. Everybody when given 3 options all coalesced around Cakez. I still think a whole lot of scum want Cakez dead tbh. This just makes it juicier.
Hmmm. HMMM

I dunno. I'm bad at claim looking.
Though Tammy's role seems like a similar one, on the other hand, Tenet.

[Bell]

Someone tell me if it's -EV not to just let Cakez live and force scum to run artifacts or risk getting caught or something.

[Bell]

something just happened at my work and now my life has exploded in the worst way

i can't handle or make decisiosn rgiht now i'm shakig really badly

asking for an extension probably ba dbut i don't knwo what to do

Focus on that. I hope things turn out okay.

[Bell]

VOTE: Sircakez

In general, I would prefer if no one trusted or took a leap of faith in me. My reads do not warrant it.
I appreciate it Sangres. We can figure out Mathblade tomorrow. With a cooler head from me hopefully.

[Bell]

I'm going with my initial impulse.

Tammy is likely town.
Sory if wrong Cakez. I take full responsibility for my vote.

[Bell]

VOTE: Mastina

[Bell]

I won't be hammering anything before much closer to deadline.

I don't know what to think of bork right now. I'm not leaving this game day with a townread, and that's extremely disturbing.

You're my town lock this game for this post tbh. My notes PT has a bunch of hidden Bork murderous intent. Ngl, when I saw him vote Mastina I was like, my pure wagon Where did it go?

I'm going to refrain from posting further. Apologies for the spam.

[Bell]

I will be here to voteswap ~15 minutes before deadline if Spiffeh/sangres do not agree where to move. If I don't, it's a scumclaim.

Someone else on the mastina wagon can make the same pledge.

Will do.

@Bork, I dunno whenever I read your posts my face is just like.
and you never seem uncertain. Like you can see how FF and I are all nervous and unsure of ourselves rethinking a bunch, hesitating and leaning a little on each other. But you don't seem to have that unsurety. You see a thing and you give a take.

[Bell]

1 hour now.
I'm not sure what Nacho's schedule is but it shouldn't take much time or commentary to look at Cakez claim and Mastina's posts and make a snap decision.

@Bork, I see.
@Tammy: You're not wrong. I just have no idea if you're right.
@Sangres: Running hypothesis is that Mathblade just went to a scum PT on (fake)claims to think about/discuss it. But I'm honestly not sure if he would be that sloppy as scum given he pretty much disappeared in the same time frame and it seems sort of lame to say that when he could have just been doing something irl. I'm curious if Mathblade as scum would borderline insult/attack a player while scum. I did want to say this earlier, but I do look forward to learning more about people. So I hope that post-game conversation is productive. It should be.

[Bell]

1 hour now.
I'm not sure what Nacho's schedule is but it shouldn't take much time or commentary to look at Cakez claim and Mastina's posts and make a snap decision.

@Bork, I see.
@Tammy: You're not wrong. I just have no idea if you're right.
@Sangres: Running hypothesis is that Mathblade just went to a scum PT on (fake)claims to think about/discuss it. But I'm honestly not sure if he would be that sloppy as scum given he pretty much disappeared in the same time frame and it seems sort of lame to say that when he could have just been doing something irl. I'm curious if Mathblade as scum would borderline insult/attack a player while scum. I did want to say this earlier, but I do look forward to learning more about people. So I hope that post-game conversation is productive. It should be.

Yes I completely timetravelled to before my third time commenting it to discuss with my buddies my answer so it would be my first one. Genius. I am literally trying to save post count here. That’s all.

This is what I mean Sangres. Can’t win for losing.

Your frustration and anger just seem fake to me. Rage and condescension is an easy emotion to fabricate as scum. Kuribo would have a better take on it though. Since this anger seems like a slow boil, while your anger in Boonskies was more volcanic.

@Spiffeh, my snap reaction was that it was sort of like a weakened version of a role-cop which I associate somewhat with the mafia alignment. Per the wiki. But it's not quite that either.

[Bell]

(expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)
Timer.

[Bell]

VOTE: LLD[/vote

[Bell]

VOTE: LLD

[Bell]

We lost two Vt's I call that a win tbh.
Though I'll miss Sangres. Kitty Murderer is a bad person.

[Bell]

I am probably going to be an even worse Tyrant this day phase.
Sorry in advance.

[Bell]

My capitalized T was not a crumb.

[Bell]

I am probably going to be an even worse Tyrant this day phase.
Sorry in advance.

What are you thinking?

Titus and Dunn Tmi'd by Mastina. Mastina had the right solution in front of her because Titus was town.
She weak defended you on purpose and tried to cover it up as the dunnstrall wagon being weak.

Prism town.
LLD town.
Sangres town.

Pooky, Cakez, up in the air. I don't think your two pokes are bad.

[Bell]

Spiffeh town obv.

Not sure if scum PR saved by Mastina lim, but last two votes on Mast hard to fake tbh.

[Bell]

I would be down for Mastina.

The main problem is we got tons of lurk sacs.

Like my pref is BM or Titus
Second pref is Mastina
I could also go quiet/Dunn.

Dunn has more votes and I really like Spiffeh’s case.

If you flash it I join it.

Til then I kinda want this day to end because pretty sure we don’t got 200 more pages.

Take your present I will “bus” Mastina? Get it over elim.

Happy now.

Because you’re clearly not a mason

VOTE: Mastina

I was waiting for Nacho, but now that I know he won't be posting I'm okay moving forward with a Mastina elimination.

Why Mastina and not Titus?
I would prefer a Titus elim since scum!stina doesn’t seem to want Titus elimmed.

And apologies I thought that was directed at KTT

I personally think Titus almost got clipped yesterday as town and the scum missed their opportunity or they maxed out their credit card on her wagon. not super duper confident in that tho.

Bell, I do not follow and your townread is tanking fast.
Let’s take a look at what you’re saying but instead of Mastina replace it with scumread

Because a scumread’s view point is such that she is asking that I trust the scumread in a game of mafia using an appeal to authority. The scumread’s view is narrow.

Of course scumread’s view is narrow definitionally, they’re scum. So try again, why Mastina over Titus? When scum Mastina wants to be elimmed over Titus?

This is exactly what happened in Boonskiies that I took advantage of as scum. I manipulated the RA hydra into continuing to push Angel to the point Angel scum claimed (as town) to protect sequence. At best Mastina is deluded town here. At worst she’s scum who wants Titus alive. Her reads are crap and her mechanics are crap and LLD’s take her list and flip it upside down is better than right side up imho (exception LLD obvi)

It's around this time that my willingness to eliminate Mastina was made clear. But not why. Mathblade started to hard push me as not explaining any of my reads, but I was only really tight lipped about Mastina at this point. Hypothetical is that this out of nowhere SR bothered him because partners.

Interesting.

So it’s Titus+Bell or Titus + Mastina and not both.

And FYI your play has been shit and you’ve been poking me to try to inflate post count.

You refuse to give reads despite being asked by multiple people. You can die.

How the hell does a Prism post respond into any of this when I literally just asked why Mastina over Titus?

You’re not making any sense here Bell.

This is also when they started to discred me.

That is a fucking BEAUTIFUL 6 person votesquad, though the 3 people on Titus are pretty solid too.

Both the Dunn/Cakez are comparatively uhhhh fucking disgusting

I don’t. Bell + BM have been in my PoE awhile
Titus wagon is prolly pure but my townreads think she’s town
Admittedly two people in my PoE are on Dunn but they’re the more conditional ones.

I am willing to hammer Mastina if it comes to that but it just seems off.

From my position I can see how MB as scum would understand that I was scum reading him. And make this a carefully worded post to TMI a town Mastina resulting in me splitting off. This actually did work on BM who was also sring MB. His reaction is quite in line with that expectation.

DUNN HAS FIVE VOTES
GET YOUR ASSES ONBOARD

Sorry, why are you against Mastina so much and want the softed PR who cannot claim for us to move their wagon in time again?

Are you sure you're town siding.

I don’t believe Dunn softed anything
And if you’re town and think this you never say it.
You defend their play.

Is Bell bad town or bad scum?

Discred #2

There are a lot of anti-associatives so I'm not 100% sure, but I also know that Mathblade pretty much hates bussing day one to my knowledge or bussing at all really unless it's part of the plan. I'll admit to quite possibly being wrong here.

But yeah. I just kinda want MB hard dead unless someone has a clear on him or something.

[Bell]

Exhausted from work. Will post sometime in the late afternoon tomorrow. Super busy.
Please don't overwhelm me with a million billion posts.

[Bell]

Oh shit oh fuck. Before I go to bed I had an epiphany and had to share it.

What if Spiffeh
Is a deep mouse?

*ba dum tss*

[Bell]

VOTE: Mathblade

[Bell]

I'm just waiting and watching.
Also, dealing with stupid stuff.

[Bell]

I'm just waiting and watching.
Also, dealing with stupid stuff.

Anytime you wanna unvote me and vote Titus would be appreciated Bell.

Then why act as if I would be?

You’re going to end up getting my input if y’all don’t fix course one way or the other.

No. Get eliminated.

[Bell]

Good morning.

@Sircakez, what was your result on Quiet?

@Titus, I'd ask what about my voting patterns EOD seemed like scum. But let's be real, I'm going to be dissatisfied no matter what your answer is.

[Bell]

Mathblade please and thank you.

Thanks for the effort, Pooky and Sirckaez I read both of your cases against each other and considered them.
Now please respond to mine.

It's unclear to me if Mathblade is just sick of losing and has a lot of pride in being scum so he's feeling motivated to flail for eternity or if we just got it wrong. But from my perspective no matter how much post-flip effort he puts in, he can't erase his positioning on Mastina, Me and Prism nor his proclivity to defend his partners without* defending his partners.

[Bell]

Good morning.

@Sircakez, what was your result on Quiet?

@Titus, I'd ask what about my voting patterns EOD seemed like scum. But let's be real, I'm going to be dissatisfied no matter what your answer is.

I was spitballing based on looking at wagon spots on the mastina wagon. It's not a detailed VCA. I'm not satisfied with it either, hence why I reached out.

Without being too snippy. I could translate this as:
I'm literally counting the number of votes in order from left to right and think Snoopy's number is the sign of the devil.
And reached out ~ Interest check.

But meh you aren't my priority yet. I'm not sure whose positioning themselves around me to not get on my bad side because they need my vote/attention to survive and who actually thinks that I'm obvious town.

minus Prism who I'm pretty sure is town and it makes sense(i think?) for them to TR me given we sort of worked together at the end of the day to keep Mastina viable. Prism more so than me, but meh.

[Bell]

If you iso Prism this game. The title of the work "The agony and ecstasy of being in the zone." written by town Prism. Pops up before their first posts do.
That's it. That's my town case for town Prism. If you keep that in mind it fits. So the scum team is just going to have to night kill them I guess or they can live with that town albatross around their neck all game.

[Bell]

Can we do one of those we flip Sircakez and if he flips town we flip Pooky type things.

[Bell]

I don't agree.

And Grayice bussed like someone forgetting to put their car in park while on a hill.

[Bell]

Because Pooky is trying harder and he didn't really play along with Mastina when she got into the game.

[Bell]

Bork wrote a listicle and wrote 4 posts in a row with zero real time interaction.
a
I too can write a paragraph about each player as scum. He used that "townie post/effort" as a spring board for a political push.

Also, that DGB post was rude and it makes perfect sense for Titus to push a non-entity. As either scum or town really. Mathblade's stance makes less sense from his position on lurkers from day 1.

I'm only waffling a little on Spiffeh because Dunnstral in my opinion is a better scum hunter than I am. I don't really want to engage with whether Dunnstral is pushing Spiffeh legitimately or not because it's difficult to tell.
RN Spiffeh is a legitimate no from me though.

[Bell]

Bell, it seems like you're putting a lot of stock into Dunn's read of me, so why aren't you chomping at the bit for him to explain it further? Is it not concerning to you that he's held a strong scum read on me since the beginning of the game but has yet to justify it properly?

Or if you think he has justified it, can you point me to where he does so?

I'm in meeting, but we have a 20 minute break.
I'm not chomping at the bit for him to explain it further, because I don't agree with him and I doubt his explanation would change my mind much if at all. If you started getting wagoned I would start giving people a very hard time about their reasons. But you're not going to get wagoned and if they do, you'll be defended.

It is not concerning that he has yet to justify it properly to me because people just don't justify themselves all the time. I pretty much never spoke about my reasons for voting Mastina that wasn't farcical in thread. My actual reasons are in my notes and they will stay there unless somebody asks.

I think he has applied steady pressure and consistent pushing, but I don't want to get into what is and isn't a real push. To me I consider his push somewhere in between acceptability but it's rare for Dunnstrall to spam the thread up demanding an elimination. Even on roughly vanity wagon type votes.

[Bell]

Nah,
titus is town.

The argument that Titus was defending Mastina and that's somehow scummy isn't convincing.

Do you know who did chain saw Mastina though?
MathBlade, he attacked both Prism and I while still largely attacking or mehing on Mastina.

The argument that Titus is not logical and that make her scummy is also a bad joke.

[Bell]

You get angry too easily.

[Bell]

*stares directly at your wife*

[Bell]

My skin is thicker than it once was and I know GrayIce isn't being serious.

You were chain sawing for Mastina and setting up conditionals so that you'd only vote Mastina if X was scum. I know that as scum you probably weren't too interested in the case I made against you, but it was there.

[Bell]

The conditional defense of Mastina by arguing that we must go in the order of A to B and B to C. By arguing this way you soft defended and provided an excuse not to vote her without at least securing one miselimination beforehand. This isn't hard.

[Bell]

In addition I would like someone to explain why Mastina decided to make the argument was town based on a very obscure bit of Titus knowledge.
As sum she had the answer right in front of her.

Mastina often creates arguments around appeals to authority and in part, given how close the Titus wagon was from happening. I believe Mastina was just trying to build some of her authority by being "right on Titus"
It's not my fault the scum team missed the boat/were chickens who wouldn't out one of their number to get her wagon done. They deserved to lose Mastina because they were clutching their own status and positions.

[Bell]

I'm totally not projecting.
And also, scum team, I don't mean it and I'm sorry and I'm sure you're trying your best. I just have a bad habit of trying to demoralize you by talking to you directly to make you feel bad.

[Bell]

Mastina often creates arguments around appeals to authority and in part, given how close the Titus wagon was from happening. I believe Mastina was just trying to build some of her authority by being "right on Titus"
It's not my fault the scum team missed the boat/were chickens who wouldn't out one of their number to get her wagon done. They deserved to lose Mastina because they were clutching their own status and positions.

I agree with that this is true in general but not true here.
It’s a trick I often use as scum.
Eg X player does Y often as scum or scum often do Z thing. This is a logical fallacy.
Just because someone did something in the past doesn’t correlate to here.

Eg A slot machine not paying out the last 100 times...surely it’s “due”.

Your example is for clarifying independent events as being truly independent. That is if you flip a coin every time the odds are 1/2 if both sides weigh the same and we have a gamblers fallacy.

The issue with this is that these aren’t independent events. I’m specifically referring to marina and her preferences.
Slot machines don’t have habits. People do.

[Bell]

1.I'm saying you falsely compared my opinion to the gambler's fallacy. Which I don't think you can dispute.
2. Ye...yes? Meta is a tool with dubious efficacy. Though I have no idea what you mean when you say meta is a tool like any other tool. When...Er, a hammer and a screw driver for example are both tools for different functions so I have no idea what you're trying to say other than that, actually, your opinion is normal and not special in anyway!

Which yeah. I know?

[Bell]

Aw, that’s adorkable prism.

I’m kind of just shifting between Bork, cakez and MB.

With a lot of paranoia outside of my stronger town reads.

[Bell]

My personal feeling is that I need to find 4 more town and protect them for all I’m worth to win in the worst case scenario.

Located town: spiffed, LLD. Prism. Bell.

Need 4 more town to rise their hand. I’m not sure we’re going to get much more tractation so I figure it’s probably best just to control an elimination with those four people, take the game out of the scum team’s control as punishment for having lives and not being obv town.

[Bell]

Right now, that list is Bork, sircakez, Dgb, math.
I’ll Eliminate any of these folk.

[Bell]

VOTE: Borkjerfkin