Mini Normal 2200 | Game Over

[Chara]

hello everyone!
i did join because of Fark. :> but i'm happy to see the rest of the list too. <3

[Chara]

also hi everyone this table is VERY cute

[Chara]

i've never seen a scum skit. but i imagine what you're saying is not inaccurate, at least.

[Chara]

i'm not sure about Day being Hectic. i think it's fine if it is, but if it's not we can just go about our Day.

[Chara]

not having time to flirt at all times in a mafia game? weak.

not everyone is as powerful as you~.

[Chara]

i'm not sure about Day being Hectic. i think it's fine if it is, but if it's not we can just go about our Day.

'VOTE: chara

i'm sorry, i know my puns are awful. i should stick to poetry about vore.

[Chara]

good players

who are the good ones Mena

[Chara]

i love the lego movie. i bought so many sets of Queen Watevra Wa'Nabi. she's the ideal woman.

[Chara]

i'm pretty bad at dates. i always think doing something fun is the way to go, then i end up devoting more time to the event than to the person i'm out with.

the sweetest love is the one that's just out of reach.

[Chara]

im sorry do you want to go on a date too

i have many hands

i think an amorphous amount of hands is... a woman's best feature.

[Chara]

it's embarrassing that i had to go check on this, but hello Suji! it's nice to see you again.

pedit: possssts

[Chara]

i'm pretty bad at dates. i always think doing something fun is the way to go, then i end up devoting more time to the event than to the person i'm out with.

the sweetest love is the one that's just out of reach.

That sounds like a good approach, honestly

it's a really bad approach. my poor date is just there like trying to get to know me better and i'm here playing an enthusiastic game of secret hitler

[Chara]

Sometimes the absence of joy is sweeter than fulfillment of one's dreams.

surely you don't believe this, Pooky!

[Chara]

Ydra's response to initial query indicates she is trying to hide signing up with Hectic, makes no sense to do unless they happened to roll scum together.

i'm not sure how serious this is, but i do think Ydrasse didn't plan it if Hectic did happen to sign up because of her.

also, i was under the impression Hectic makes himself known when he alts, so i don't know what the scum utility of this would be.

[Chara]

okay if you're going to be angsty about love i might have to be an optimist this time

i've never done it before, bear with me. heh, bear.

pedit: Mena these are some advanced hunting strats, and i must voice my appreciation.

[Chara]

Chara have we ever discussed Russian film?

i'm going to give a resolute "probably not" on that one.

pedit: upgraded to definitely not.

[Chara]

Okay cool, just checkin

i had to see if we'd played together before. unfortunately i remember very little from Your Nightmare besides being played like a fiddle by Hectic and his partner. who was......... was it skitter? it doesn't matter.

[Chara]

Well, below I’d like to give my main theses on the most important themes in Tarkovsky’s work:

so now that I have you here, you’re town right Chara?

i see, i might have to check that out.

Spoiler: off topic movie discussion

i'm town, but don't tell anyone.
also, the part above that was a lie, i won't check it out and i have only the vaguest idea of what "it" even is.

[Chara]

It was posting stuff like "i am nervous i don't know what to say" every other post in the scum pt

Fark do you have to put me on blast like this

[Chara]

i actually do townread Ydrasse. i feel like i shouldn't, but i also feel like she doesn't try the exact same scumgame she tried last time and got caught with, right out of the gate.

[Chara]

It was posting stuff like "i am nervous i don't know what to say" every other post in the scum pt

Fark do you have to put me on blast like this

I wouldn't if it didn't work

We smashed that town

it was a great game that i was very happy about, as you can probably tell.

is your skitter read based on the aggression thing, or something else?

[Chara]

Please townread me. Please. Pretty please. I’m so lonely. I haven’t been townread by anyone in a really long time and you are so towny. Please do me the favour of townreading me.

i townread you.

pedit: yes, it was Isis, as someone... someone in this thread corrected me. is my memory just getting worse??

[Chara]

i just made some banana bread, does anyone want any?

[Chara]

i'm in a towncore!!
that never happens. is this what it's like to be in a clique? do people still say clique?

[Chara]

Fark was my better half. :>

and Hectic has gotten me back already, even if Undertale was more of a spectacle.

[Chara]

i'm kinda (?) getting townvibes from pooky and mena as well

Why mena?

(Yeah, sorry mena)

i like the way he's being chill, and his repated

claiming like this

while probably fake feels kinda townie to me

this is the same reason i tr Mena, even though i'm aware that the structure of those posts is probably not actually AI, there's just something about it.

[Chara]

guys please don't use ms as a dating site. can't stress this enough.

Ydrasse is a vile temptress. and i mean this in a positive way. also in an out of game way, incidentally.

[Chara]

Chara please @ me for a hot half platonic half romantic half relationship. Let's build a lego model of our dream home but mount a deathray to the chimney.

MAXIMUM PARANOIA LUCY

[Chara]

actually if it

is

Hectic i guess i don't mind as much as that moment of panic would imply.

[Chara]

VOTE: Pooky

[Chara]

i'm already dueling the bear.

[Chara]

........................i guess i'll go then. :<

[Chara]

But the key thing here for me is not the fact that it looks so similar, but that she got really, really defensive when i called her out on it

fwiw i don't think she actually got a chance to react as scum in that FL vs. Hectic game, but in the game i just modded with Ydrasse-town recently, she reacted fairly loudly when suspicion went her way.

[Chara]

im just going to flirt every game until people realize it's not ai

the implication here is she will flip red btw

This is a good point.

I will VOTE: Ydrasse

how is the implication that she flips red this game, Pooky?

[Chara]

enh that's not fully what I was going for but it's close

"im just going to flirt every game until people realize it's not ai"

this line implies that she needs to flirt every game UNTIL we realize its not AI.

as in future games.

as in she will flip red here and we will think its AI.

because if she flips green here, we will know its not AI - and she wouldn't have to "flirt every game to make us realize its not AI" - we'd realize it as soon as she flips green here.

but she's saying she has to flirt every game, to make us realize its not AI.

sorry, i should have finished reading before responding.

i kind of... don't agree at all, though. who said Ydrasse is flipping today?

[Chara]

i'm not usually a fan of the linguistic gotcha angle to begin with, though.

[Chara]

right.

[Chara]

My variant is kind of the same thing except as a mood version instead of an accidental confession version

Accidental confessions are actually very rare so I am very slow to believe in them if there are other ways to read.

i didn't understand what this was saying at first, but i agree with this. "accidental confession" is what i meant by "linguistic gotcha".

[Chara]

i don't think Ydrasse's reaction to the suspicion is AI. i just saw her react similarly in a recent towngame.

[Chara]

recent towngame
it's not a long game so it should be in her ISO. i don't remember where, unfortunately.

i'd have to see more of her actually playing to be sure either way, but i do think it'd be a really ballsy move to just try the same scum strategy twice, especially given how it didn't actually work the last time. i wouldn't say she "had half the playerlist pocketed".

[Chara]

oh by the way, the banana bread is really good, and i'm a genius. but it's only for Ydrasse and Mena. spots in my good graces are still open! <3

[Chara]

@skitter

it is about here where Ydrasse is being pushed, i remembered this because i recalled other players in the game calling her out for being defensive.

and yes, the two games are not the same in other ways, i'm not saying that Ydrasse is for sure town here (though i do townread her), but the defensiveness angle is one i have seen others put up against her in that game.
it's hard to compare to the scumgame; that one she was largely not pushed, so i can't say she wouldn't also be defensive as scum either way, but it did stand out to me.

[Chara]

Note to self:

If Skitter is scum then she's probably doing some nice distancing right about now

do you scumread Ydrasse?

[Chara]

like im just

i feel super frustrated already w this game which is dumb but it feels like I Do Not Get To Have Fun Playing this one + i dont get to play how i want to (read, fun bc i really like this player list) and it will take me flipping town for people to see it's not AI for me to act like this i guess, idk

i do get it, but perhaps you should give the thread a break?

i think it's too early to call whether this will be a nice time, but i'd like it to be, and if you are town i think you can show it. :>

[Chara]

Neither of those games / posts look anything like this one tho

In anuket despite the gimmick you had content within your first like three posts
In chara's game the defensiveness feels kinda difference and it's more attacking like: your read is bad and scummy and i'm going to push you for it

I feel bad for making this game Not Fun for ydrasse, i'm sorry

i don't know, my point is that Ydrasse is capable of being defensive as town. i don't think the exact nature of the defensiveness makes her more likely scum,

especially

when you don't have a sample of Ydrasse being defensive scum.

also i don't think there's anything to apologize for here, yes. no need to feel bad.

i mean... is it true that scum Ydrasse can't put out content? if it is, i'd be more inclined to agree with you, skitter, but it's my understanding that she is perfectly capable of doing that.

[Chara]

Not really, but I just got a sense of this being potentially a s/s interaction.

Maybe that fact that every game I've played with Skitter she's been scum and hard bussed her partner D1 is making me paranoid

i mean, that might do it.

nothing i've seen from skitter so far looks any different from her townself, and for my part it kind of feels like i'm watching the same skitter that interacted with me in FL vs. Hectic.

[Chara]

"Pooky," skitter asked, starting slowly.
"The GAME is full of friends, and Ydrasse's entire existence depends on her fun. If she becomes a tryhard, she will almost certainly die.
Did you think about that?
"Oh yes, my love. I love thinking about that."

you.

[Chara]

We're gonna have either a conftown or confscum by the end of this day as I can read Norwegian like a book

taking this as gospel.

[Chara]

skitter, why is this important to argue?
i'm not trying to be a dick about it, i am just curious.

[Chara]

VOTE: Sujimichi

I think this is a good place to start.

Reason:

He seems to be forcing content rather than organically forming thoughts.

examples?

i thought Suji has sounded rather stilted, but i seem to remember them sounding like that in a previous game.

[Chara]

but why it's important to skitter is important to me!

[Chara]

i was expecting not to like Ali based on eir earlier reads, but the Pooky read validates me.

[Chara]

@Fark: sorry for not quoting. i don't really see a difference between those two posts, the second is just reiterating the first. i'm arguing that Ydrasse's reaction and her being called defensive is something i've seen from her as town, i can't say she would

only

do it as town.

that said i found her reaction towny, blah blah AtE i know.

[Chara]

Ok great, let’s not read him based on meta then.

I think he’s been scummy in this game and warrants pushing. I don’t like how much he’s been defended before he’s even returned to the thread

i like this post.

[Chara]

i don't think Day is Hectic.

[Chara]

why does this progression miss that Alisae was reacting to your scumread on em?

[Chara]

like it's just a picking of events that sound the worst, you must know that.
also Ali saying something like "i'm fine flipping my townread to prove you wrong" seems really in character. no shade but spite is an Ali emotion.

[Chara]

also yeah Fark i don't really SR Day, i don't have a read there and i'd rather not discuss who i think they actually are, just that i don't think it's Hectic.

[Chara]

i might be misremembering the events then. but re: just the Ydrasse thing, my SR on you was also from how you approached her. i don't see why no longer having that read makes your actions less relevant.

[Chara]

i just noticed you have a 2003 join date. what the fuck

[Chara]

Alisae saying they regret posting when Luca/me were arguing pinged me town as well when thinking back on it, their argument that seeing if me/Luca would bring specific supporters on either team and would have been valuable input, is a town mindset.

yeah i can agree with this, i think scum Ali is happier to see an argument form and actually contribute to it than accidentally interfere and immediately regret it.

[Chara]

also @Pooky, do you still scumread Ydrasse and you just wanted to go elsewhere? i know you talked about this but i'm not sure how much of it was serious.

[Chara]

i have heard Ali say what Pooky is saying about eir scumgame. e focuses on playing to win and doesn't care about blending in/making subpar moves from a scum perspective in order to look town.

[Chara]

the last real musical i saw was the spongebob musical.

it was pretty good. but the show was at 7pm and my final was due at midnight, and i hadn't written a word of it. so i was a little stressed.

[Chara]

re: 566, as far as i remember Day wasn't regurgitating anything already said about Ydrasse, at the very least it seems like a valid take? so i don't know how you're distinguishing between picking a side vs. just having a normal opinion.

[Chara]

my mother and sister were supposed to see Hamilton this year.

and i passed the final. barely. but it was passed.

[Chara]

So there are 2 other scum to catch even if she is scum, and if she’s town (which by definition she is in most games) you have a better chance to win by giving her space to do her thing bc she has good reads normally

i do have to agree with Lucy about the special treatment thing, i always feel kind of gross when i give more deference to scummers i know, and when i realize i'm happier voting to eliminate ones i don't know/know less well. because i know how it sucks to be the player who doesn't have the great scumhunting reputation, and end up a compromise.

but that has little to do with actually winning, i'll admit. it's also not a very realistic thing to avoid.
...and more to the point, it's probably also the tactic i'll be taking with skitter, so this isn't really a knock on Mena as much as a "well shit sucks, man".

though it has nothing to do with a particular trust in skitter's reads over anyone else's and more to do with i think she does get readable herself in a way i can follow.

pedit: thank you Pooky. :>

[Chara]

thank you, Wyldstyle

[Chara]

I managed to see Hamilton in September right b4 covid so that was good :3

otherwise tho just fingers crossed hoping it won't be too crazy the reopening!

UNVOTE:

[Chara]

the quote isn't relevant but i'd like to pretend Hamilton had a hand in it anyway

[Chara]

i'll never understand the practice of mulling over day 1 solves.
but i'm not in the church of Farkran, i guess. :>

pedit: hi Ydrasse!!!!!!!

[Chara]

I could use *a lot* more insight from Chara but i think one of the reason it was so successful in our scumgame together is because it usually doesn't have *that much* content to offer usually even as town, so... maybe i should move it a bit farther from my towncore until later? Still, i don't want it too far because it smells nice

wanting more content is fair, thinking i don't usually put out content town as is... i'm not sure where you get this or if i should be a little bit insulted you think i did well as scum because my towngame is subpar.

it's not the greatest, but i can play mafia, sometimes. even if i don't know how to.

[Chara]

v/la for 48 hours sorry

[Chara]

hi i'm back, unwillingly. do you guys need me or can i just coast and then take credit/blame for whatever happens?

[Chara]

Ydrasse and Chara have not yet abandoned me

are you run up?

considering i came back i suppose i can say i did not abandon you yes

[Chara]

I vote the latter

oh i see, bye then.

[Chara]

I vote the latter

oh i see, bye then.

wait no i read a little bit more, i'm not abandoning anybody.
let's see.

pedit: <3

[Chara]

everybody get your music readlists

[Chara]

hello Penguin!

i'm not especially jazzed about a Mena or a skitter wagon right now.

pedit: okay perhaps we should stop discussing... whatever that is, then

[Chara]

VOTE: Day

[Chara]

what's the townblock, Luca?

[Chara]

I don't mean your initial Lucy suspicions, I mean your recent ones and picking to push her over anyone else.

i don't have context for skitter's initial suspicion of Lucy, but why do you townread her so strongly? a quote would be fine if it's there.

[Chara]

i'm not jazzed about much, i'm kind of just sleepy. but i'm not feeling scum from skitter's posting right now.

[Chara]

I don't mean your initial Lucy suspicions, I mean your recent ones and picking to push her over anyone else.

i don't have context for skitter's initial suspicion of Lucy, but why do you townread her so strongly? a quote would be fine if it's there.

I know her main and her play is strongly towny for her.

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuggghhhhhhhhhhhh fine

okay, so who should skitter have picked to push instead of Lucy?

i know i should just be reading up fully but doing this is so much easier to parse, i apologize.

[Chara]

oh, i assumed Lucy's main wasn't outed. Day, could you explain why it's so strongly towny? given Penguin also knows the user and is saying the opposite.

[Chara]

i don't get the argument that skitter should vote someone who will actually go to elimination to save Mena, it kind of sidesteps the act of voting a player you scumread and is just a weird framing of the vote.

pedit: eh.

[Chara]

Love it when alts claim to know other alts mains but neither are public. Love it.

lmao

[Chara]

no but i have a guess for who she is

also day to compound the above: she's saying all of this right after she voted mena to e1. i.e. she's saying that i'm scummier than mena and that i'm trying to pocket him blah blah blah just after she placed the e1 vote on him (and thus indicating she scumreads him ...)

pedit yes can we vote lucy now? 1800 was awful

i mean yeah it's certainly not great, but i haven't liked what i've seen of Day's approach either.
i'm not sure about the unvote and then "i'll think on it". i first thought yeah, that's what Day should do given the timeline has apparently been cleared up, but maybe that's also what scum Day should do rather than doubling down, anyway.

[Chara]

What would be a towny approach then?

there are a lot of towny approaches, if you're saying you want me to specify exactly what i think you should have done differently if you were town... i don't know you. :>

[Chara]

i don't get the argument that skitter should vote someone who will actually go to elimination to save Mena, it kind of sidesteps the act of voting a player you scumread and is just a weird framing of the vote.

pedit: eh.

From the start of 1800, it looks like Lucy sees herself as very townread in the village, so she might be thinking wolf skitter's making a push that doesn't actually have a chance of going through to save Menalque, and is only doing it for appearances? The pocket thing is flawed but I can see reasoning behind that part of it.

okay, i think that's a feasible thing to think, re: making a push that won't happen to look like she's doing something while letting Mena go down. i just feel like you're being very generous in interpreting Lucy, which could be understandable if you're convinced she's town, i guess.

[Chara]

@skitter: I’ll consider your points against Lucy later when I have time

@Chara: Day and I both mind-melded a townbloc of: Luca, Day, Norwee, Pooky, Farkran, Lucy

Lucy is the one I’m least certain on though so I’ll look into that more later

i have some opinions about mindmelding as a signifier for a player being town, and that aside, the only player i townread strongly in this group would be you. i'll see where my reads are as i go.

[Chara]

i don't think day is necessarily scum if lucy is tbf

if Day is scum the Lucy read feels more WKy than partner-y to me.

[Chara]

m probably delving far too deep in assuming what exactly Lucy was thinking and should let her speak for herself though.

agree.

[Chara]

i don't think day is necessarily scum if lucy is tbf

if Day is scum the Lucy read feels more WKy than partner-y to me.

What if Lucy's scum?

i don't know yet, i've been trying to read your position more than hers.

pedit: fair enough. :>

[Chara]

i could see a town Lucy who just did not think that far in accusing skitter after voting Mena, but i also think it makes a lot of sense that skitter would find this a scummy thing to do. but honestly i also think Lucy could say just about anything and it'd be really hard to read the motivation of it due to her posting style, her posts are also difficult for me to read, it took three passes at 1800 for me to understand what skitter was saying about it.

[Chara]

@Penguin: do you have a read on Day?

pedit: i'm so jaded at this point i can't in good conscience call it scummy, but it is definitely antitown.

[Chara]

Explaining my words passes the comb over my mind again. It brings a harvest of notions.

okay this

is

actually a whole fucking mood but don't do it at the expense of other players

[Chara]

actually if it

is

Hectic i guess i don't mind as much as that moment of panic would imply.

knowing who it is now i just feel bad for reacting this way

please be nice to me on your main i get scared when strangers offer me candy

[Chara]

skitter, do you think my posts seem forced now and that I'm dreading posting? or is that just outweighed by other things for you at this juncture?

do you normally dread posting as scum?

[Chara]

I think I know who Day is as well but I won’t say in case I’m correct again

please no, i can't take another reveal. let's just stay in blissful ignorance.

pedit: you've always cared more about your bricks than about me. are you going to leave me for the girl with the unique hair? i know my bricks are generic, i know they are...

[Chara]

i have experienced her scumgame only once, i didn't townread her but also didn't manage to catch her.
not that i plan to use meta here.

Lucy: did you explain the process of scumreading skitter for WKing Mena, while voting Mena?

[Chara]

possibly? if she thinks she's playing to her town meta the reveal might help. plus i immediately became way more positibe toward her upon knowing who she is, even knowing that's pure bias.

[Chara]

I like you no matter what your bricks are like Chara, what matters is the stories you and I tell together, not the actual plastic.

The girl with the unique hair doesn't have enough room on her strands to map out the highs and lows we'll click past together..

why are all of my games like this recently?

am i doomed to crave that fresh, uncomplicated love? it's fake, and plastic, but the pieces slot together so satisfyingly...

we don't have to follow the instructions, together.

[Chara]

oh!

Y... Ydrasse.

it's not what you think...

[Chara]

She defended him in a way that I didn't see her doing as a pair. People have pointed out she'd probably bus and I agree.

I've scumread skitter more throughout the game so it didn't take much for me to switch.

I think I've been over it but I'm in a mood to talk about this game ad nauseam kinda, somehow.

i believe that you've talked about it, i've been kind of popping in and just skimming for context, i might be motivated to do this more properly if it ends up annoying someone.

do you have thoughts about Day's defense of you?
i know asking that question is just inviting more Day alt-guessing but.

[Chara]

I agree, Alisae. I thought 'd give it a try because everyone seems to secret alt nowadays but I don't really get the appeal. Maybe they're ashamed of their main accounts.

i can confirm this is the reason.

[Chara]

Day told me exactly who they are with an inside joke many pages ago, I don't know if it breaks alt ettiquette to mention that. I think they have the material it would take to townread me here and it kind of felt like the surges in how much she was townreading me popped up right after they had seen something particularly distinct for me. Which has given me a good feeling about the slot aside from the mindmelds.

this is probably valid, i can't really unpack it from my perspective, but re: secret alt etiquette, i think if a portion of the game knows who you are a portion doesn't, you're no longer entitled to that secrecy. i'd rather players play on their mains so i can just play around them normally, or keep the secret alt secret so i can treat them as a new player without knowing that player A and B have these meta reads i can't interrogate at all.

[Chara]

re: the actual content, Day's commitment to defusing the situation around your slot/translating or explaining your posts pinged, and then after being called on that and with the skitter timeline thing, they pulled back and did seem to reconsider themself.
it gives me pause, and i'm not sure i agree with skitter about it being NAI, since it's scum who might benefit from taking the reasonable, less aggro-approach, while i usually characterize town as being more protective of their opinions. but there exist reasonable town, too. and i have a tendency myself to scumread that agreeableness some players just Have.

[Chara]

Day's below null even without considering that but it's not for anything cool.

[Chara]

if you don't keep playing on your main, then it's no longer a secret alt.

it becomes your new self.

[Chara]

i mean, i'm playing a 5-page game here, so,

"average alignment indication" is... a concept. it implies one should take an ISO as a whole, then look at town indicators vs. scum indicators and then see which outweighs the other?
instead of holistically deciding which evidence to use and which evidence to discard, then continuing to do that until you're only using the correct evidence? if i have conflicting evidence, i try to figure out which evidence is getting thrown out because i've misinterpreted it. a "correct" read would be all of the evidence pointing the same way.

and do you mean Day has considered the entire game and come to the correct read, and it's obvious to you that that's what happened, so you don't find the defending behavior scummy?

[Chara]

she is focussed on a specific event - because its probably the most consequential thing thats happened so far

i dont think thats a bad idea or even scum motivated on her part.

she could just as easily have let you kill mena tonight instead of pumping the brakes.

you've said this much more concisely than i managed to. i know it's not the same thing but the whole "some events are more important than others" thing was supposed to be the point of the crap i just spewed.

and i agree, i think the strangeness of your play there that skitter picked up on makes sense, as is focusing on an event you find more important/salient.

[Chara]

oh I dont think day is scummy - the defense is too weak and ineffective for that.

my question was actually to Lucy, i just took a while asking it.

the defense being ineffective is part of why i didn't like it, actually. it just felt like scum knowing Lucy's town and so easily finding the town thought process, then communicating that to defuse the miscommunication to look reasonable/town.

[Chara]

pandora sucks i hate her

funny post

[Chara]

I'm not saying it's scummy for skitter I'm just saying it's not scummy for Day and I thought calling out my own recency bias would make that clear

so what is scummy for skitter?

you said you felt like repeating yourself, and if that was sarcasm it's your fault for delivering it too well.

[Chara]

you don't have to force it if you actually don't want to, i should sleep anyway.

[Chara]

You're right, Chara. I find Lucy town for her play for the rest of the game so was trying to find the town thought process behind that potentially scummy instance from her.

i guess this game deserves some effort. i'm as of yet unconvinced that you could be

this

convinced Lucy is town from the rest of the game, but i'm also not sure at you two would be scum together.

pedit: hmmmmmmmm

[Chara]

it doesn't matter what you want! mafia is about mercilessly voting your mafia e-girlfriend!!! just kill her!! dead!!! that's love!!!!

[Chara]

what i mean is. like, of course i love Ydrasse. but, if she keeps popping in with music and no content, my townread is going to wane just as it did before, even if i don't want it to be like that and even if i want her to be town, and you just need to accept that sometimes, just like she'll accept you for who you are no matter what the hammer of justice forces you to do.

[Chara]

i simply do not wish him to be scum

(im finally here to try to read but i am decidedly higher than i thought i'd be while doing this)

or she's town actually

i do not wish him to be scum, i don't even know who the him is but seeing such a sentiment after feeling such a feeling from Pooky, it hits. Day doesn't get points both times this was expressed were agreeing with someone, by my memory.

[Chara]

it doesn't matter what you want! mafia is about mercilessly voting your mafia e-girlfriend!!! just kill her!! dead!!! that's love!!!!

If killing me will make me your e-girlfriend I will rolestop you so the roleblockers can't stop you from vigging me. I promise to get my self pretty and Macho by the time night comes as confusing as that will be to manage.

aaaaahhhhhhhh

i can't do this again. i shouldn't do this for a third time. and yet.

[Chara]

this is me promising myself i'll look into that.

pedit: oh, you're so nice.

[Chara]

true, there it is. you have the awareness. i hate self-awareness.

[Chara]

[Chara]

but elimming someone like chara/penguin doesn’t feel useful for sorting as much.. like it’s useful if they flip scum but my head is still going to hurt. i am in over my head this game

hopefully the fancy coffee i ordered per my new sunday ritual shows up soon and shows me the way

i hope so too, i want to see your opinions!

i have a lazy Sunday ahead of me, so i'm hoping to have a nice thread-read. i remember Fark asking me questions about Mena and i still haven't read the part where he was run up.

[Chara]

Chara are you scum?

i'm not, but what's the feeling behind this question?

i know you've wanted my opinion on some things, and i'm sorry i haven't yet put in the time, but i'm also having fun just going at my own pace for right now.

[Chara]

god i do love billie eilish's voice

[Chara]

Chara, could you explain why you doubted my townread on Lucy from the rest of the game if you hadn't read up?

the "5-page game" this was a joke about my tendency to just read up on recent pages, but i believe i've read enough collectively that i

have

read most of the game, at least enough to have an idea of main events.
and when i asked you why were so sure about Lucy town, you said it was because she was having fun, so it sounded like a meta read based on her demeanor so far.

[Chara]

that and i tend to put more value on things i've read more recently + remember better, because i can trust my memory of earlier events less without rereading.

[Chara]

Also ofc people's recent thoughts on pooky would be nice

i TR Pooky, if i'm being honest i haven't been paying a lot of attention to what he's saying, but the emotional highs and lows have felt correct.

[Chara]

that's uh, not to say i don't care, Pooky, but attention span is at a premium and you haven't given me any reason to examine your motivations more closely.

[Chara]

I also didn't like 2122 because Chara acknowledged they haven't read most of the game and were playing a 5 page game or whatever, so how could they know when they haven't see what I townread Lucy for and why?

see, i asked you what you townread Lucy for, and i was working off of that. i can't work off of material i haven't gotten to yet, and if there was something besides the meta, you didn't supply it when i asked the question.

but i do see that you took the 5 page thing literally, and not as a joke about my playstyle.

regarding the thing about reconsidering, i thought that because a player who is reasonable could of course be town, it's just often a behavior i see scum do to defuse a situation.

your post about how i'm right and that you

were

treating her as town and so were reading into things with that bias also weirded me out, because it sounds like you're acknowledging i was right to find it strange while also finding it strange that i find you suspect.

[Chara]

Putting her that high above Menalque. Implies that you think there's a decent chance she's town and wrong about him.

are you saying Day should be thinking all of skitter's strong reads are correct?

[Chara]

oh, just Mena specifically. still, i don't think it's insulting.

[Chara]

eh, i keep hearing this about skitter, enough that realistically it is probably coming from truth, and yet i find it difficult to believe she's

that

accurate all the time or that she should be blindly followed. i don't think skitter herself is looking for that either.

i'm going to read Mena, i'm going to do it, it said, desperately.

pedit: Pooky, are you sure it's Hectic? like, really sure? because i feel like i'm talking to someone i don't know when i talk to Day.

[Chara]

i would also like a VC, i know i have votes but i only remember Ydrasse, Luca, and Day. or is that it?

[Chara]

thanks. 2561 neatly encompasses both of my homeworks.

[Chara]

that is a very funny line to hear from the low-content slot, lmao.

[Chara]

Wow.
That pop in from Mena was... really unimpressive.
I legit feel confident in my scumread now.
VOTE: Menalque

This is more like the Norwegian I know and love

VOTE: Menalque

Minimum one of these is scum

VOTE: luca

VOTE: norwee

Because I would expect you to be a lot warier of supporting a wagon norwee is pushing

reading this looks like very mild panic and a kneejerk OMGUS reaction to being voted when he wasn't expecting it. 1585 i don't remember the context for off the top of my head, but the reaction here feels like town who is doing that "aaaugh, okay someone voting me has to be scum", thing.

Norwee's argument around 1565 looks like that really rigid meta application i tend to dislike. and before i hear about how good Norwee is at reading Mena or whatever, i'm also hearing just how good skitter is at reading Mena so i'm at the point of wanting to throw out the meta arguments anyway.
Mena as i'm seeing him so far is trending town.

[Chara]

I think Hectic knows Isis well enough to know that she has a lot of fun as scum...

You think I enjoyed ss3? Did you read it's scum pt? I didn't have zero fun, but.. I don't think I've fully erased my "scum is agony meta" yet.

it seemed like you were having fun in Nightmare.

i mean, i get it, scum can be both fun and also very very anxiety-inducing for me.

[Chara]

100% on Day not being Prism. Hectic's a maybe. i'm trying not to care, though.

[Chara]

i see. i guess it's moot, since the important point would be Day's impression of your scum meta and whether or not it's applicable here. do you think you've been out of your range?

pedit: validation! also, i'm sorry to hear that.

[Chara]

If the team is exactly chara-lucy-farkran I probably have the same level of fun here I guess but like that kind of thing is what it'd take.

i'd cry, please.

[Chara]

maybe i was wrong on lucy

what's changing your mind?

[Chara]

my thing is i don't really think Lucy has been having

that

much fun, she had her gimmick and obviously did enjoy using it, but i don't know if that would have anything to do with her alignment as opposed to just using a gimmick she planned to do with the alt, anyway. as for post-reveal Lucy, she seems fine and that she is having a nice enough time. but i do only have that nightmare game to compare her to, and i haven't seen town Isis, so i don't have a good baseline. i'm just assuming that scum Isis is probably able to also have a fairly nice time even if she's very upset in the scum thread, or what have you.

i went back over 2135, and i'd have to say i also townread Luca very strongly, not sure if it was around the time of that post but it was an earlier read i'm still happy with.

some clarification:
"instinctively I wanted to be transparent about how my thought process compared and contrasted with Luca's. If Luca suddenly dropped support, I'd have more to explain on my own progression, skitter doesn't."
what does this have to do with skitter? it's not my impression that you two have very similar playstyles.

[Chara]

her every post doesn't feel like 'ugh i utterly hate posting' now that she's posting like in a 'normal' way for her
she has this vibe that she hates posting when she's scum

i'll have to take your word for it.

[Chara]

do you have a read on me yet, Pooky?

[Chara]

it's fine, i don't think it can be avoided.

pedit: it's okay <3 i said as much to you earlier. how about a read on Norwee?

[Chara]

Regardless of whether her playstyle matches enough to add reasoning to her votes (which is just like, playing good) I explained how there's a scum motivated benefit there potentially.

that's regarding the hedginess, open-ended interactions, etc.?

[Chara]

pooky answering me before i had to ask is so <3

i don't know what it was about the Starcrossed hydra but this Pooky is easy to townread.

pedit: do you have a different answer, or..?

[Chara]

so i think Mena feels town, i

think

skitter is town, i'm not going to be sure about it probably but the reasons for her being scum are things i've scumread previously and then found are also traits of her towngame, Lucy i don't know.

right, and Farkran: i'm sorry to say that detailed insight on the wagon situation, the composition on skitter vs. on Mena, etc. is not something i'm going to be able to provide. it's just not how i play. i do think Mena's reaction to the wagon was towny.
re: Day, i haven't found them towny, and i've talked a little more about my thoughts on them so i'll see what you have to say on that.

i didn't love Norwee's Mena vote, while the vote on me seems to be following Luca who i believe Norwee townreads, so eh. that reminds me that i don't know what Luca scumreads me for, though i know they talked about it.

[Chara]

i'm also looking at Ydrasse, i think i put a lot of stock into the "i don't want you to be scum" thing (was from earlier in the game, was not to me), and her vote on me did not feel very... it feels stupid to say this, but i expected some sort of comment on the fact that she was voting me specifically, and that didn't happen.

[Chara]

if i was trying to blend in, wouldn't it have been better to join a wagon or vote someone who was being scumread?

[Chara]

the thing with Day is that he was really looking for towny thought processes that were not immediately apparent, he's playing mediator, and then when i point out that this behavior is TMI and feels faked, he says i'm right (though that this is for a different reason), but also finds it strange that i scumread him for it.

[Chara]

it does feel like a lot of the reads this game are built on a meta i don't know, and as nice as it'd be to take players at their word it's not something i can do.

[Chara]

the thing with Day is that he was really looking for towny thought processes that were not immediately apparent, he's playing mediator, and then when i point out that this behavior is TMI and feels faked, he says i'm right (though that this is for a different reason), but also finds it strange that i scumread him for it.

His thought process regarding Lucy has been similar to mine, so I don't really agree

and what about the other thing i'm talking about here?

[Chara]

i'm also looking at Ydrasse, i think i put a lot of stock into the "i don't want you to be scum" thing (was from earlier in the game, was not to me), and her vote on me did not feel very... it feels stupid to say this, but i expected some sort of comment on the fact that she was voting me specifically, and that didn't happen.

i really just don't know who to vote this game at all, and the wagon on you is people i townread, so i thought it was a good place to throw one down

it's not because i wanna elim you, because i don't... know who i want to, i just have people i townread, and the people i ""scumread"" are for... gut/tonal reasons which i can't really figure out why, and i don't know if it's because i can't read them or not (mainly skitter/pooky are in this pool), and the content they're posting is like... fine? mostly? like skitter it's really just a weird feeling, same for pooky who i think has made some dramatic posts, but i don't really want to kill people off the basis of feeling offput by their posting and that alone

i'm just lost this game, basically, and feel like i won't be able to piece things together until something flips but i don't have anyone i actively want to flip because i wouldn't be confident that they were scum

thanks for the answer.

[Chara]

i keep hearing that my reason for voting Day is bad, but no one's told me why i should be townreading them, just that their reason for townreading Lucy

isn't

bad. which, sure, it's not bad, i think it's very strong, but i don't see why i should be townreading them, where i have plenty of other players i do townread.

[Chara]

god damn it i wanted that one

[Chara]

i keep hearing that my reason for voting Day is bad, but no one's told me why i should be townreading them, just that their reason for townreading Lucy

isn't

bad. which, sure, it's not bad, though i think it's very strong for what it is. but i don't see why i should be townreading them, where i have plenty of other players i do townread.

EBWOP, i'm trying to say it seemed

very

strong, not necessarily in a good way

[Chara]

good luck with the power outage, i hope everything's okay over there.

[Chara]

you can join my team if you want?

no, i want to beat you next time.

[Chara]

I mean I can understand paranoia or whatever from Day, but reconsideration on that particular point pinged me a little as it wasn't even scummy

pedit: yeah, it's all good thanks. Just yearly maintenance in my building

i also didn't think it was very scummy, so much as something that contradicted itself (which townies do often, imo) and that would make sense for skitter to scumread. iirc, Day was scumreading skitter at that time? someone correct me if i'm wrong.

[Chara]

I don't know, I kind of almost felt pressured to find it scummy because everyone in the thread at the time were saying it was uber scummy that it basically almost convinced me into thinking there was something scummy about it that I wasn't seeing. When I first read 1800 I actually liked it and though it was towny

wasn't it that the timeline was wrong, and it was pointed out to you that it was wrong, and so you reconsidered?
i don't see where the peer pressure comes in there.

also, i am interested in your thoughts on my reply to you, when you get the chance.

[Chara]

it sure would be nice if someone diligent could go read that whole interaction and see who that everyone is.
alas, Prism isn't here. is anyone willing to step up?

[Chara]

Which reply, Chara?

uhh, it was a reply to you talking about my vote on you, let me find it.

[Chara]

Chara, could you explain why you doubted my townread on Lucy from the rest of the game if you hadn't read up?

the "5-page game" this was a joke about my tendency to just read up on recent pages, but i believe i've read enough collectively that i

have

read most of the game, at least enough to have an idea of main events.
and when i asked you why were so sure about Lucy town, you said it was because she was having fun, so it sounded like a meta read based on her demeanor so far.

that and i tend to put more value on things i've read more recently + remember better, because i can trust my memory of earlier events less without rereading.

I also didn't like 2122 because Chara acknowledged they haven't read most of the game and were playing a 5 page game or whatever, so how could they know when they haven't see what I townread Lucy for and why?

see, i asked you what you townread Lucy for, and i was working off of that. i can't work off of material i haven't gotten to yet, and if there was something besides the meta, you didn't supply it when i asked the question.

but i do see that you took the 5 page thing literally, and not as a joke about my playstyle.

regarding the thing about reconsidering, i thought that because a player who is reasonable could of course be town, it's just often a behavior i see scum do to defuse a situation.

your post about how i'm right and that you

were

treating her as town and so were reading into things with that bias also weirded me out, because it sounds like you're acknowledging i was right to find it strange while also finding it strange that i find you suspect.

[Chara]

i need to make myself go to bed or i'll be up until 3 again so let's have the entire thread promise to stop posting now. okay go

[Chara]

(this is a joke, i'm a big boy now i can do it myself. <3 you all)
also Ydrasse i'm sorry for the vote thing, i feel bad if you are town but also i really hope you can get into the game and see that i am in that case.

[Chara]

is Scum Fark unable to be angry?

I think scum Fark is less emotion and more robotic (probably not the best word for it), but the main thing I townread him for is the "I didn't want to get mad" and how he needed to take a break or whatever. Doesn't feel faked.

what i know of scum Fark is very capable of this, the emotions are not faked at all, but they are utilized.

pedit: and we all know how much i love doing WORK
being in the thread at the same time as the content is so much easier. i went v/la for two days and i feel like everyone's a new person. :<

[Chara]

i would call that claiming not-VT, a crumb would indicate some sort of quality about the role, and also not be a direct claim.
i don't think the general not-VT claim lends any additional credibility to the claim.

[Chara]

yeah, that.

also this is the second time Day's had an excuse for why he'd be scumread, but the "i'm purposely playing with a weird tone" is up there for me. why were you doing that? i know you're on a secret alt, but i've thought your tone was weird all game, so again the surprise about being scumread for it is weird to me.

pedit: we can talk about scum Mena i guess. i thought his reaction to yours and Luca's votes was very kneejerk/reactive in a town way.

[Chara]

like i think scum Mena thinks a little more before making the accusation, it looks like he just posted what he was thinking immediately.

i know a part of the case is meta, but nothing else Mena has said has stood out as glaringly manipulative/like he doesn't want to be here to mean. but i'm open to talking about it.

pedit: i usually find the "town player X would be better than this" arguments made just as often about players who are not meeting a standard that isn't actually indicative of their consistent level of play. or, to say it in a way that doesn't sound stupid, it's kind of BoP.
i also wonder if a scum Norwee would not have been so quick to abandon the PoE read on me.

[Chara]

my internet or mafiascum is being so goddamn slow right now.

[Chara]

I'm still open to listening to arguments on why Day would be scum.

besides that i don't townread them, they've felt off in a way that is alleviated only sometimes when i talk to them/they explain their behaviour. i don't feel like they're sorting as much as playing to be townread, and it just seems very... neat.
i would have expected hypothetical reasonable town Day to consider why i felt them off or scumread them, especially since they have said they're faking their tone/were treating a player like they knew she was town. but it feels in general like they're pretending to understand less about how i'm playing than they do.

if Mena is scum then i would feel a lot better about Day, but i'm not convinced he is.

[Chara]

Norwee, could you quote/point me to specifics about Mena?

[Chara]

i'm going to take a break and post later when it doesn't take a few million years.

pedit: :>

[Chara]

vaccinated.

hell yeah!

[Chara]

i'm not sure what i want to do here.

[Chara]

SS, who are you wanting to elim? it sounds like you think Day could be scum with that claim, but it seems like the consensus is they're not. i don't agree at all with Fark's belief that Day wasn't in danger of being eliminated, they were at something like E-2 and were about to go on a v/la.

[Chara]

this cat makes me feel things.

[Chara]

Incidentally Chara could also be scum here and i can compromise on it, i've been trying to townread it because i really wanted to play together but i don't know, pooky being THIS committed to save Day makes me believe i have to redesign the game structure i had in mind

why can i be scum? you know my current scumgame the best of this table, and you also seem to have a good idea of what my townplay is like.

i want to play with you too, i think i've explained my thoughts on what you've asked me about to the most that they existed, and yeah it is a little awkward to converse when we're online at different times.

[Chara]

playing a day 1 with friends is difficult.

[Chara]

could you talk about what it is you were trying to figure out with the vote on me?

[Chara]

i think Luca is my strongest townread at the moment.

Norwee has also felt pretty town in spite of his having a lot of reads i don't really agree with.

pedit: so you TR Luca strongly? why is that?

[Chara]

i thought i had a lot of townreads, but i actually don't when i count them and then look at the playerlist. but Day's the only player i actually suspect so i don't want to let them off today on a claim i think has a low chance of self-resolving.

pedit: i don't agree with the scumreads on Norwee, they all just seem to be meta which i take with a major grain of salt without a detailed breakdown of the player's style. which rarely happens.

[Chara]

this game sucks vs flavor v hectic because i’m going to feel guilty if we miselim someone

i also feel guilty miseliminating players i don't know well, ahaha. like, how dare you not be friends with the table.

and i don't have a strong enough PoE yet that i'd be happy eliminating within it.

[Chara]

they all just seem to be meta which i take with a major grain of salt without a detailed breakdown of the player's style.

Seems like something you might be able to ask Luca about, he reportedly knows quite a lot about Norwee's meta.

i have commented on it, i don't think Luca has replied but i may have missed it.

[Chara]

My previous posts don't imply a strong townread on Luca; I would trust his read even if I didn't townread him, on the basis that it's quite risky to fake a strong meta read like that as scum.

But yes, I do townread him pretty strongly, on the basis that he's been very proactive and energetic but he doesn't really seem to be advancing an agenda. 3307 is honestly probably a pretty large part of it; it seems very risky as scum to double down and then just abruptly switch off. And I don't know much about his scumgame, but I've seen him play in this strong town-leadery way as town before and it was pretty similar to this.

i agree somewhat with the first point, though i think meta is manipulatable in that a scum player can selectively apply real meta in a way that benefits them. i have found it convincing before but it takes a specific level of detail and earnestness for me.

and thanks for the answer on the TR. i was going to disagree about Luca's unvote being a notable thing, but i saw that you'd called him tunneled just before that, so i can see why it'd come to mind as towny.

[Chara]

By the way, actually i don't know your townplay at all! I am just making assumptions about it based on how you were townread at the time of undertale and i think it could be compatible with what you're doing here - going with the flow and never taking strong stances - my point is mostly that i think the wagon on day is scumdriven because the reasons provided to hop on the wagon were a bit weak from mena, ali and you too to some extent

Although i can relate on you being more sensible to 2114 since it was directed at you - still, i would expect that the claim should at least give you some pause when in fact it didn't at all?

Pedit: it's true that it has low chance of self-resolving but would you agree that the timing and nature of the claim is unnecessarily risky? He wasn't forced to claim and even if he had to v/la i really don't think scum would be afraid of being hammered without being given a chance to claim *after* the v/la

first bit: i know you don't know it, but you have a good idea of it, i think. i scumread Day obviously so i didn't have a problem with them joining and was happy to see it, though in Ali's case i think e really does just want any flip as town or scum so i find eir hop on very difficult to sort.

middle part: i mean i have considered it, but a roleblocker claim isn't really going to make me reconsider anything, even with the disloyal modifier. i know Pooky has reason to believe it's town, but without knowing the setup it's hard for me to say definitively that it couldn't be a trueclaim or that there isn't some other setup weirdness going on, besides the possibility of gambiting with rolecop. i've been convinced out of scum in normals before because they had an actual role that "made no sense for scum".

last bit: he was at E-2 and was being actively pushed by Luca, with Ali also angling to eliminate something, so i think Day was under pressure. and if it is a trueclaim i don't think the timing matters.

[Chara]

pedit: i don't agree with the scumreads on Norwee, they all just seem to be meta which i take with a major grain of salt without a detailed breakdown of the player's style. which rarely happens.

Norwee is simultaneously scumread and townread based on meta which is hilarious though

For being a self-proclaimer master on reading me by meta, Luca has been quite indecisive.

Mena is also townread and scumread on meta. i'm just disillusioned about it by this point.

[Chara]

didn't i talk about why i scumread Day, and you directly responded to it?

[Chara]

I'm still open to listening to arguments on why Day would be scum.

besides that i don't townread them, they've felt off in a way that is alleviated only sometimes when i talk to them/they explain their behaviour. i don't feel like they're sorting as much as playing to be townread, and it just seems very... neat.
i would have expected hypothetical reasonable town Day to consider why i felt them off or scumread them, especially since they have said they're faking their tone/were treating a player like they knew she was town. but it feels in general like they're pretending to understand less about how i'm playing than they do.

if Mena is scum then i would feel a lot better about Day, but i'm not convinced he is.

This does seem like an sincere explanation of a read.

[Chara]

and when i responded to the 5-minute thing, and then poked Day about it, their response was they weren't concerned about it anymore. all their posts make

sense

, in that they are logical and follow what came before, but they're so convenient.

Day's walkback on the 1800 thing has the explanation of caving in to pressure at the time, but that comes after Luca has started pushing them hard, including the point about how Luca thinks it's scummy that Day reconsidered on 1800 to begin with. so Day then coming in with well, i did think it was towny, but i actually said the opposite because of pressure from others, is just really convenient as well.

[Chara]

I must have forgot.

eh, i forget a lot of stuff. but you reminded me of something else, so thanks.

[Chara]

i'm a lot struggling to have a confident read on Fark!

[Chara]

i'd like to know where he's going with the Ali thing.

[Chara]

(like, chara is low activity and i think a lack of towntelling isn't like, a good reason to vote someone right now and penguin's felt sparse to me in terms of content but again, meh).

i have more posts than you, missy! who's low content?

[Chara]

that missy is a haha funny joke. to be clear. not a diminutive address towards Ydrasse who i like very much.

[Chara]

i don't think Day is getting eliminated regardless of what i do, so i am taking suggestions.