Mini Normal 2200 | Game Over

[Farkran]

Hello everyone

I am seriously surprised that almost the entire plist is in my friend list, i love you all!

Hello again chara ydrasse and alisae, long time no see SS menalque skitter norwegian and suji, and nice to meet you to the others

It's amazing how coming back to ms revives so many memories

[Farkran]

pooky woke up and chose violence today i see

i don't think he has a green pm guys.......

Actually he is choosing suicide over violence

I don't understand

[Farkran]

farkran let's be friends :>

I thought we already were, at least from my side

[Farkran]

Farkran i mostly signed up because of you, but seeing Luca, Pooky and etc also was encouraging.

Yeah i mean i was invited to this game by skitter, didn't expect to see everyone her

Let's not disappoint the hype

pedit: i think hectic is missing this. Sadly.

[Farkran]

early townpings on ss for his interaction with ydrasse / his 'missing the joke' thing

Not sure if i should be thankful to skitter for making the first step out of random shit stage, or for stealing that perk from me

However, the town!skit i remember is more aggressive than scum!skit so this counts as town points too

Pedit: i mean how can i NOT love you all <3

[Farkran]

I can tell scum will attempt to pocket Farkran if he is town.

Despite how bad i am at identifying pocket attempts, i think all my friends usually vote me out of the window when they are scum

Looking in your general direction, ydrasse.

Pedit: omg are you hectic?

Pedit2: can't post fuck mobile typing too slow

[Farkran]

I can tell scum will attempt to pocket Farkran if he is town.

Despite how bad i am at identifying pocket attempts, i think all my friends usually vote me out of the window when they are scum

Looking in your general direction, ydrasse.

Pedit: omg are you hectic?

Pedit2: can't post fuck mobile typing too slow

i will always vote you out if you want me to...

Maybe. I'll let you know.

[Farkran]

early townpings on ss for his interaction with ydrasse / his 'missing the joke' thing

Not sure if i should be thankful to skitter for making the first step out of random shit stage, or for stealing that perk from me

However, the town!skit i remember is more aggressive than scum!skit so this counts as town points too

Pedit: i mean how can i NOT love you all <3

Why is nobody reacting to this though?

[Farkran]

what reaction do you want?

Any

not having time to flirt at all times in a mafia game? weak.

I thought this was a dating site? Am i in the wrong place?

i've never seen a scum skit. but i imagine what you're saying is not inaccurate, at least.

I have. In my very first game here. It was a newbie game and she admittedly didn't play full strength - but still, i have spectated some town!skit games and she's waaay more aggressive than her scum counterpart. Again, this is from my memory of 1 year ago, things might have changed

Pedit: 12 posts while i was writing. Hi menalque, the wifom is real

[Farkran]

Ok i don't care about pocketing anymore, i want a date with ydrasse

Also VOTE: alisae you're late to the party and i miss you

[Farkran]

I have. In my very first game here. It was a newbie game and she admittedly didn't play full strength - but still, i have spectated some town!skit games and she's waaay more aggressive than her scum counterpart. Again, this is from my memory of 1 year ago, things might have changed

I think she's become more mellow and happy over the last few months and that's shown up in her playstyle. I don't think aggression is something that's reliable for reading her at this point in time.

Talk to me about your recent memories of skitter

Yeah, i know it's early, but we have to start somewhere

Pedit @ydrasse: i usually let the girl decide, the good news is that i never say no

[Farkran]

hm... im pretty indecisive honestly, i usually let someone ELSE decide

oh no we're going to get stuck in an awful cycle

i haven't been to the zoo in a while, let's go to the zoo

Zoo it is then. Never been to a zoo. I have been to a circus as a child, that's my closest experience with (non-domestic) animals

[Farkran]

i'm pretty bad at dates. i always think doing something fun is the way to go, then i end up devoting more time to the event than to the person i'm out with.

the sweetest love is the one that's just out of reach.

That sounds like a good approach, honestly

it's a really bad approach. my poor date is just there like trying to get to know me better and i'm here playing an enthusiastic game of secret hitler

I will have to agree that this kind of approach is more efficient with friends than on a romantic date - my personal belief is that if the spark of love is there, you don't even notice your surroundings because you're 101% focused on the other person. At least this happened to me every time i found myself in love.

By the way, pooky might be town for 141, the vibes of "not tolerating tryhardness" are there. I feel them, usually i am on the other side of this.

Suji, why did you focus on norwee's comment about me when there were so much other stuff around?

[Farkran]

Suji, why did you focus on norwee's comment about me when there were so much other stuff around?

Apologies, but do you mean Menalque’s comment about you? If so, it was one of the only salient statements made from when I first posted.

Yes, sorry. Could've sworn it was from norwee.

By the way, what do you think of skitter's 33 then?

[Farkran]

Also chara sounds much more relaxed than our last game together

It was posting stuff like "i am nervous i don't know what to say" every other post in the scum pt

And then flooded the main thread with streams of neutral reads worded analytically

I think i can work with skitter, chara and pooky as town for now. And ydrasse.

[Farkran]

It was posting stuff like "i am nervous i don't know what to say" every other post in the scum pt

Fark do you have to put me on blast like this

I wouldn't if it didn't work

We smashed that town

[Farkran]

think i can work with skitter, chara and pooky as town for now. And ydrasse

Rude

Because you disagree or because you aren't included?

[Farkran]

Sorry 'm late, was sleeping.

Ok you can skip the last 200 posts if you answer one important question

ARE YOU HECTIC?

A lie or a negative answer will result in your brutalization

[Farkran]

because you aren't included

This one

Convince me otherwise

[Farkran]

It was posting stuff like "i am nervous i don't know what to say" every other post in the scum pt

Fark do you have to put me on blast like this

I wouldn't if it didn't work

We smashed that town

it was a great game that i was very happy about, as you can probably tell.

is your skitter read based on the aggression thing, or something else?

I was very happy too, i remember staying up until 6 AM during elo and my heart was throbbing like crazy when hectic voted nacho instead of you and oh my god it was so epic

As for skitter, yeah just the aggression thing rn, but she has to keep that up or it will fade quickly

[Farkran]

i'm kinda (?) getting townvibes from pooky and mena as well

Why mena?

(Yeah, sorry mena)

[Farkran]

As for skitter, yeah just the aggression thing rn, but she has to keep that up or it will fade quickly

i'm not being aggressive tho?

also pooky i really like that gif

I mean aggressive as in quick to make assessments about the game, a better word would probably be "more proactive than average" compared to scum!skit

Are you sure that mena is town? I might sheep

[Farkran]

By the way, what do you think of skitter's 33 then?

Thank you for pointing this out. I do not have an opinion currently.

The reason for a light townread makes sense to me despite not being able to get the same myself. I do not see anything alignment indicative about Something_Smart’s first posts.

Do you think otherwise?

I don't think otherwise nor likewise rn, too little content from SS (which iirc is nai to him, he's never been a top poster), but what picked my attention is that you missed skitter's comment since it was the very first valid content, whereas you chose to point out menalque's instead.

I pretty sure i also had highlighted it in one of my earlier posts, so i wanted to doublecheck why you chose menalque's comment about me specifically

[Farkran]

I mean aggressive as in quick to make assessments about the game, a better word would probably be "more proactive than average" compared to scum!skit

Are you sure that mena is town? I might sheep

eh fair enuf
i'm not like 'sure' mena is town but i feel like it's a decent scumping for this stage of the game

wait, what scumping?

[Farkran]

I don't think ydrasse is scum but i still think skitter is +town for pushing there

Also 3 am, good night. Please don't flood the thread overnight, catching up from mobile is terribugly

@alisae get here i need your input to make things work

[Farkran]

@S_S, no it would still be foolish to do it as scum right after doing it in front of someone who caught you for it and knows you just did that as scum

That's definitely not true when it comes to extremely ordinary behaviors that people do every game. Like, hey look, I'm playing devil's advocate. I did that the last time I was scum against you, wouldn't it be foolish for me to do it here as scum? No, because it's what I always do.

There probably are times where it is true, especially for more self-conscious players, but this seems pretty typical of her personality which makes me doubt it in this case.

This kind of reasoning rings town - like, it sounds too in-depth to be faked if coming from scum.

Also i kinda agree wrt ydrasse, i have yet to fully catchup but she seems to be playing the same town game we ended just recently (although i was scum in there so i didn't exactly have to *sort* her)

PEDIT: HI ALISAE LET ME CATCHUP AND I'LL GIVE YOU LOVE

[Farkran]

But the key thing here for me is not the fact that it looks so similar, but that she got really, really defensive when i called her out on it

fwiw i don't think she actually got a chance to react as scum in that FL vs. Hectic game, but in the game i just modded with Ydrasse-town recently, she reacted fairly loudly when suspicion went her way.

i don't think Ydrasse's reaction to the suspicion is AI. i just saw her react similarly in a recent towngame.

[Farkran]

But the key thing here for me is not the fact that it looks so similar, but that she got really, really defensive when i called her out on it

fwiw i don't think she actually got a chance to react as scum in that FL vs. Hectic game, but in the game i just modded with Ydrasse-town recently, she reacted fairly loudly when suspicion went her way.

i don't think Ydrasse's reaction to the suspicion is AI. i just saw her react similarly in a recent towngame.

I pressed submit instead of previewing the multiquote

I meant to ask, Chara, how did you progress from first post to second? Like - you seem to be disagreeing with skitter, lucy and pooky wrt the loudness of ydrasse's reaction (388 and onwards), but then you say it's nai?

[Farkran]

like im just

i feel super frustrated already w this game which is dumb but it feels like I Do Not Get To Have Fun Playing this one + i dont get to play how i want to (read, fun bc i really like this player list) and it will take me flipping town for people to see it's not AI for me to act like this i guess, idk

I do notice a higher level of frustration coming from you though and i have to agree with skitter that you were quicker to attack your attackers in the last game

Can you explain where's the difference between, say, skitter and costello/flea?

[Farkran]

Ydrasse's indignation and defensiveness feels like she's more upset at not being able to have fun because she's getting scumread for it, meaning it wasn't some ploy or alignment based plan in the first place. I think the playstyle is probably not dependent on her alignment based on her reaction.

I want to take note of this because i don't like the timing and content of this post when compared to day's introduction

Like, he promised a catchup read but this feels a bit lackluster - as if he just picked one of two sides (ydratown vs ydrascum) and offered the general consensus produced by his side rather than independent opinion

@day how much experience do you have with ydrasse?

[Farkran]

VOTE: Sujimichi

I think this is a good place to start.

Reason:

He seems to be forcing content rather than organically forming thoughts.

I like this push, even though my experience with sujimichi says he's way harder to read than this

[Farkran]

VOTE: Sujimichi

Eh i don't like this at all though

I am probably voting here unless by the end of my catchup i notice something shocking

[Farkran]

VOTE: Suji

See Ydra

I do adore you.

I don't want to kill you

even though I think you could be bad.

It's fine.

I am perfectly happy with you living. :3

Games are more fun when everyone has fun!

This is a bit shocking though

You had just made a post accusing ydrasse and then join against suji? Why?

[Farkran]

Hello everyone

I am seriously surprised that almost the entire plist is in my friend list, i love you all!

Hello again chara ydrasse and alisae, long time no see SS menalque skitter norwegian and suji, and nice to meet you to the others

It's amazing how coming back to ms revives so many memories

hello sir its good to see you again

--

The evidence is overwhelming

I just need to find their third partner

its probably someone who hasn't posted yet

Alisae

there we go

Alisae-Ydrasse-Hectic

HEWOOOSOLVE

True I would def tell Ydra and Hectic to bus me so they could have some privacy.
And also so that they don't have to deal with me

--

I am a

vanilla townie

I would never do something like

lie

about my role

As I am aligned with the

town

faction i am planning to do

not very much

and to allow the

good players

present to carry me to an easy

victory

Thank you all for your

time

VOTE: mena
no idea why this is happening if ur a villager.
very weirdchamp.

--

Ok i don't care about pocketing anymore, i want a date with ydrasse

Also VOTE: alisae you're late to the party and i miss you

Ya I was asleep and I also decided not to post anything until ywall were done so that catching up is easier.
i miss you too sir yes sir

Alisae is town e isn't fucking with me

[Farkran]

Sujimichi seemed to be trying very hard to escape RVS from early on so townpoints for that.
Skitter pushing Ydrasse scumread early pings mildly town.
Chara bringing up specific meta example on Ydrasse also townish.
Ydrasse emotional reaction to being pushed is not something i will base my read on her on, AtE lame.
Post 477 very town.
481, sure. But can we trust your judgement to be unbiased? I don't townread you yet so i see this as a huge threat. Fite me bro.
497, If Sujimichi's supposedly stilted posts are "all of them" it means they could just be what you see as awkward sounding at all times. This is also proved by you claiming he was stilted in a previous game.

WTF IS HAPPENING I TOWNREAD NORWEGIAN

[Farkran]

Very early and shitty reads list

Town
- Day

Townping
- Sujimichi
- skitter30
- Chara

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Ydrasse
- Something_Smart
- Luca Blight
- PookyTheMagicalBear
- Menalque
- Farkran
- Alisae
- LegoLucy

This Day as top townread is meh though

I think you are wrong, can you explain to me why you are not wrong?

Because i think we are almost on the same page with the other reads so far (i do have higher townleans on some people but nothing strong), although Day is probably my best elim candidate rn

[Farkran]

Ok i'm caught up

I want an opinion on menalque and day from everyone, please

Because i want to vote day but i can entertain a menalque wagon with alisae

Pedit wrt suji: absolutely not, but my opinion is that he has done absolutely nothing to earn a scumread, much less being the top wagon

[Farkran]

I think you are wrong, can you explain to me why you are not wrong?

I could be wrong, my reads are not final by any means. But i don't see their posts as scummy. Not faulting you if you do, but i'd need to be convinced because there are scummier slots right now.

I believe you are talking about pooky? Or would you include someone else?

If so, what's scummier from them than my read on Day?

[Farkran]

Yeah, that ringed wrong to me too, but like... too wrong to be scummy?

+ i have been townleaning pooky for his earlier posts

I can relate to your position but don't understand why day is less scummy

[Farkran]

VOTE: day moving my vote to somewhere useful

[Farkran]

Yeah, that ringed wrong to me too, but like... too wrong to be scummy?

+ i have been townleaning pooky for his earlier posts

I can relate to your position but don't understand why day is less scummy

I'm in the opposite position where i don't see the reasoning behind why Day is more scummy but i would like to understand why you believe this.
Can you go more in depth behind your scumread on Day?

See 566 and 568

The defense on ydrasse sounds poor effort/fake, and that vote on suji doesn't make sense for anyone who played with suji in the past

Like, Luca's original push sounded true and by how he described his take it seems that he doesn't know suji. Day's vote on the other hand is empty and low effort at best, gets worse if he knows suji

Which is also why i am surprised by pooky

[Farkran]

It's not that i particularly disagree with the comment he made, it's how and when he made it that pings me

I do want more feedback on this from other people

pedit: the whole point is about how Day positioned, not if he is correct or not. I want to hear more from Day too.

pedit2: i think you can call it a night Ali, we'll resume later after other ppl speak, i'm about to take a break too

[Farkran]

@Farkran

I played with Suji ages ago (we were both Town) but I don’t remember finding him particularly scummy for the most part. I’ll have to review it again but I’m sure he didn’t play like this at the start of the game.

You’re making it seem like he is immune from being pushed based on meta. Like what can he be scumread for? Can you at least go into more detail on your meta read to help me understand your PoV

Well, that's a bit of an extreme but yeah i think you cannot *easily* read suji based on meta

I played two games with him, both times he was town wheras i was 1 town 1 scum. My memory of his plays are not different than the plays here, his tone and effort are the same from what i can recall.

[Farkran]

Note that i'm not defending suji as much as i am analyzing the reasons behind him being pushed up to top wagon rn

I find that more concerning than the people defending him (mostly ali and norwee whom i townlean atm), but at the same time i feel your push is sincere, Luca. I want to hear from both pooky and day about theirs.

Pedit @skit: please elaborate on ali?

Yeah i'll let you guys talk for a while now, i'm taking a break unless questioned

[Farkran]

Based on what people have said lately I like the things Ali said about Day
VOTE: Day

I didn't find it as wolfy when Pooky stopped voting Ydrasse because if you were watching Ydrasse she reached out and touched his feelings and tried to cry a lot and so Pooky seemed to feel sorrow.

When the thing that is changing is how many other people will help vote a villager and then the wolf jumps on because they see that then that I find that suspicious but when the thing that is changing is that someone is interacting with the person they are voting then that's how villagers play

This seems to be talking about me, not Ali? Correct me if i'm wrong but i think all the points you mentioned came from me

Just to make sure, because i don't recall Ali agreeing with me on those

[Farkran]

VOTE: Alisae

E tipped her hand too early

This is a bit meh

But maybe it makes sense, we'll talk about this several pages ahead

[Farkran]

Ok Farkran is the one who is my friend then.

Yeah nvm my last post

I think you could be my friend too

[Farkran]

Also i kinda like norwee, i dont remember if i sad that

Unexpected from you, but i agree, which is unexpected from me too

I don't think my reads are particularly different from skitter (also unexpected), i'd like more insight wrt Day from you if possibile

[Farkran]

Me neither

Chara do you think pooky is a better elim than day today?

[Farkran]

My problem with the pooky wagon is that it's born of all my townleans and yet i feel there's something wrong sheeping them

Also i think that if he is scum, a couple of the possible remaining partners (mena and skitter) would have already bussed him

Rest of the people are Day (already my sr), luca (tl), ydrasse (neu/tl + see below), legolucy (neu/tl), ss (tl + see below) and suji (neutral, and could make sense with scum!pooky with his progression on ali)

@ydrasse and ss do you think pooky is scum?

@Day do you have an opinion on the pooky situation?

Pedit: well, nvm

[Farkran]

VOTE: pooky

Why are you backpedaling?

[Farkran]

Norwee

do you think there's any possibility

that I'm just town and wrong about someone being scum?

Like isn't that pretty much the default scenario for any town player who's pushing early d1 off no info?

the odds mathematically aren't on our side.

So immediately jumping to a SvT dichotomy when

we're mostly just probing and reaction testing at this stage with no info

is super shady...

Like this is EXACTLY why i haven't been attacking your position on alisae -- consistently with your previous votes, i thought that your scumhunting process was to stir the waters and see what sticks, which makes sense from a town perspective

Now though the strength of your case against Alisae gives little room for reconsidering from your part and yet you admitted that you are just probing and you've taken steps back from your case because... Why? Because a couple of people defended er and you're being runned up?

I don't like this at all

Also i still think day could be scum, but it'd make sense if scum with pooky so my vote is most useful here rn

[Farkran]

Bolded sentence in the post i quoted wasn't referring to something in the past, you specifically said "this stage", "with no info"

Yet just a few pages ago you took your time to build a case against ali including forum screenshots, i mean, that took a significant effort to label it as probing right now

I see a strong discrepancy between what you pushed ali for and how much you *want* to commit to it now

[Farkran]

Bolded sentence in the post i quoted wasn't referring to something in the past, you specifically said "this stage", "with no info"

Yet just a few pages ago you took your time to build a case against ali including forum screenshots, i mean, that took a significant effort to label it as probing right now

I see a strong discrepancy between what you pushed ali for and how much you *want* to commit to it now

the probing/reaction testing with no info

refers to my initial push on Ydrasse which was not very serious from my PoV.

Alisae jumped to a SvT dichotomy on it and pushed that dichotomy.

I find that scummy.

Building a case with screenshots of like 5 posts is not high effort for me.

When I build serious cases they look much much better.

I don't commit to things early on D1, we are not even 24 hours into the game - I am simply not going to hard commit to anything this early. There's plenty of game left to be played.

I get that your votes on ydrasse and suji could've been probing, which is why i commented on them but ultimately left them be

Your case on ali looked different to me, but in the last couple posts you've made, it sounds like you want to put it in the same bin as the other two and i don't like that

It sounds like positioning against the flip, like, "oh sorry town i was wrong in the end", as if you don't believe anymore that alisae could actually flip red

I mean why are you now saying your own case was weak instead of pushing it further?

[Farkran]

Spoiler: before

I don't really like any of ali's takes

cuz ali is scum lol

here is my slap dash Ali case and why e is scum:


Let's look at e's progression on Ydrasse/Pooky:




No reasoning given for liking Ydrasse - pretty sure Ali is reading the part when Ydra comes under attack.




Setting me up for being attacked after Ydrasse flips green



Followup post - tries to set me up for a fight with mena.

2nd part: says either Ydrasse is green and I'm scum pushing her OR Ydrasse is red and e is wrong on Ydrasse - COMPLETELY IGNORING THAT me/ydra could be town/town



This post is out of place.

Why does Ali regret posting? Why does Ali regret getting into the thread?

Think about it, what has Ali done at this point that suddenly Ali regrets?

Ali has set up for Ydra green flip followed by Ali pushing Pooky the day after for being WRONG on ydra.

But at this point Ali has read up to the part where I flip my vote off Ydra so Ali knows e's plan is not going to work as e thinks cuz I'm no longer pushing Ydra.

MASSIVE REGRET AT THIS POINT

ALL OF ALIS PLANS FOILED CUZ POOKY ISNT EVEN PUSHING YDRA ANYMORe

LOOK AT ES SAD FACe

LOOK AT THE REGRET

tsk tsk

so what's E's new plan?



yea let's kill Pooky anyway!!!!!



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

SO ORIGINALLY

YOU WANTED TO KILL ME FOR BEING WRONG ON YDRA AND FLIPPING A GREEN YDRA

BUT NOW SINCE I UNVOTED

YOU WANT TO KILL ME FOR HAVING AN AGENDA

WHAT A JOKE

IN NO FANTASY WORLD IS THAT A LOGICAL THOUGHT PROGRESSION GOING ON IN YOUR HEAD.



TLDR Summary:


Alisae: "Pooky wants to kill ydrasse, lets kill pooky after ydrasse flips green"
Alisae: "Pooky doesn't want to kill ydrasse anymore, i regret posting the above"
Alisae: "Enh fuck it let's kill pooky anyway, he's got an AGENDA"


E is scum, that's not a logical way to think.

Kill with fire thanks.

My early game takes can be bad but Pooky only thinks they’re good because of 1 game. He understands they get better over time so him calling me out is weird. Town!Pooky is probably patient with me cuz he knows if he’s town I should see it eventually.

nah I understand how your town brain thinks and your scum brain thinks and this is absolutely a scum line of play coming from you

Ah see skitter looks a bit better.

Pooky looks at my read and calls me scum
Skitter looks at my reads and doesn’t understand what’s going on but is ok admitting it (I feel the same way about her takes)

I'm not even talking about your reads.

I'm talking about your progression making no sense

the easiest way to defend that case btw was to explain what exactly you regretted and WHY

first thing town you would've done actually - say what you actually regretted instead of the thing that I said you were regretting

because

that's the EASIEST thing for you to refute.

but instead you've resorted to shitposting while randomly throwing stuff at me

sounds to me like you're thinking of something to say and you don't have an actual regret other than what i posted

which means im riiiiiight

:3

I didn’t really townread Alisae but i agree on their points that Pooky’s case looks like mostly omgus and it’s too confident for this point in the game.

her progression on me/ydra was:



Ydra is town (no explanation)
->
Pooky is scum because he's trying to kill Ydra who I have as town.
->
I'm ok with flipping Ydra(who i have as town) because it'll show either Pooky is scum or I'm wrong on Ydra
->
(reads the part where I'm no longer pushing Ydra)
->
Let's just kill Pooky anyway.


Do you really not get why that progression is scummy as fuck?

Spoiler: after

Norwee

do you think there's any possibility

that I'm just town and wrong about someone being scum?

Like isn't that pretty much the default scenario for any town player who's pushing early d1 off no info?

the odds mathematically aren't on our side.

So immediately jumping to a SvT dichotomy when we're mostly just probing and reaction testing at this stage with no info

is super shady...

and that's not even a strong case.

I've reconsidered on much stronger cases.

If you do not constantly question if you are wrong on something,

you're just not playing very well.

I sometimes get tunnelled - I am working on getting better at questioning my own beliefs.

Bolded sentence in the post i quoted wasn't referring to something in the past, you specifically said "this stage", "with no info"

Yet just a few pages ago you took your time to build a case against ali including forum screenshots, i mean, that took a significant effort to label it as probing right now

I see a strong discrepancy between what you pushed ali for and how much you *want* to commit to it now

the probing/reaction testing with no info

refers to my initial push on Ydrasse which was not very serious from my PoV.

Alisae jumped to a SvT dichotomy on it and pushed that dichotomy.

I find that scummy.

Building a case with screenshots of like 5 posts is not high effort for me.

When I build serious cases they look much much better.

I don't commit to things early on D1, we are not even 24 hours into the game - I am simply not going to hard commit to anything this early. There's plenty of game left to be played.

I mean eh, ok

I'll be back later

[Farkran]

My voting there has nothing to do with the fact that he admits he could be wrong, much rather about the change of consistency in his push.

Also i never said you two make the MOST sense as scum together, just that it would make sense. And it still does.

[Farkran]

Eh, i see him pushing full force against alisae at first, then lowering his degree of certainty by several orders of magnitude for... no reason at all, except norwee asking a question that has nothing to do with alisae actions?

[Farkran]

And there goes my spiritual link with skitter

I guess we never had a real one though, but it's ok

Also i think the redeeming factor for pooky is how little attention he is giving to the cases against him

But then again i still dislike the evolution of pooky's push against ali, which, i repeat because apparently i haven't been paid enough attention, has nothing to do with the original case nor with the fact that he admitted he could be wrong

And finally bah, i am surprised that i and lucy are the only ones seeing day as scummy and she is being scumread for that

I need to put some sleep on it and check again if i have been missing obv stuff inbetween the lines

[Farkran]

aw that's too bad
can i get a tldr of what you don't like about day? maybe i missed it

Mostly 566 and little reason to reconsider afterwards

Although i want to doublecheck his iso around the time he actually produced content wrt pooky and ali. I immediately dished it as a scummy take but that might have been disagreement bias instead. I will do that tomorrow with a fresh mind

[Farkran]

I wanna give Pooky another chance so...
Suji has not posted since day start and that kinda killed my townlean.
VOTE: Sujimichi

Aw, i was in the middle of a catchup, wanted to do a summarizing post but had to stop on this because i don't like it

Why norwee?

Then again i find myself once again questioning votes against suji when i don't even townread him

It's just... that every vote on him seems so opportunistic it hurts, he has literally done nothing scummy. Sure he did nothing towny either, but this is consistent with the suji, currently it's like tossing a coin and i think i am concerned by the fact that he is top wagon just because of that

With the exception of Luca, it seems that people are like "fuck i don't know what to do, uh... *panic* i'll vote suji"

[Farkran]

Ok so, catchup's over.

Luca Blight is probably my highest TR right now. All of his takes are the most sincere and transparent, i'd be extremely surprised to see this flip red, even if i disgree with a fair amount of his reads. I'd like to get some common ground on those

Alisae is either town or is able to fake what *i* would do as town with exceptional prowess. I am now ok with townlocking er

Speaking about ali, i don't like menalque much either, but i believe it's due to a change in his playstyle since my last memories of him - i remember mena to be a lot more aggressive as both alignments so in this game it's... probably nai. I fail to see why he voted ali though, that's a stance i'd definitely like to hear elaborated

I like Lucy. But upon reassessing i think i like her a bit too much for agreement bias purposes rather than from solid townplay. Still, she's been the only one vibing with me on Day and i'd think that with this plist she would choose someone else to pocket as scum. I want to have lucy in the close outskirts of my towncore

Suji is the very definition of a neutral read and my only opinion about him is based on the people moving around him

I could use *a lot* more insight from Chara but i think one of the reason it was so successful in our scumgame together is because it usually doesn't have *that much* content to offer usually even as town, so... maybe i should move it a bit farther from my towncore until later? Still, i don't want it too far because it smells nice

Ydrasse should post more. I forgot why i tl'ed her, but i still instinctively do.

SS i think is doing fine, still a solid TR, could have more from him too but he's a player who doesn't shine d1 as much as later days

Pooky is eh. Very eh. I admit i have a hard time playing with people who have a playstyle so vastly different than mine, but atm i can't get over the change of pace in his push against ali yet. I'm surprised the wagon died though

Which makes me a bit more wary of skitter, like, everyone seems to be listening to her whatever she has to say - i guess this is what happens when you are skitter, but it's... dangerous - i get the feeling that if skitter is town, the first people who would listen to her would be the scumsies, out of pure fear. On the contrary, if she's scum i think i would expect some more resistance against her takes, in order not to show that fear

Norwee is a bit lost atm, i hope he finds himself again

Day is pending a reread

---

I have very few SRs, i think it's because of the plist. I admit there are people whom i want to TR with all my heart and soul but that's not healthy

I can see myself eliming in {mena, pooky, day} today. Will be back later to reassess Day

Pedit: yeah i can relate. Norwee is a bit less lost now

[Farkran]

I hereby declare Alisae the Pope of my church

BURN THE HERETICS

[Farkran]

I don't like most of Pooky's case but I think this post is actually pretty scummy:

So I don't like any of {Pooky, Suji, Skitter, Mena}. Maybe like 2 scum in here?
which makes me think I'm either rly woke or wrong.

I can easily see myself being wrong on Suji.
I don't think Pooky and Mena are both town.

I'm vibing with Luca, Day.
Lucy seems townie.
Ydra I think is townie so far but like if she dies it probably helps me ig. Either pooky is right, I'm wrong, and I need to reassess or pooky is just scum.
Fark seems fine so far

Having no room to see both of Pooky and Ydrasse being town doesn't seem genuine. Why can't Pooky be wrong also be town instead of 'just scum'? It feels more like that's what Alisae wants that to be perceived as, as it helps their win con and both of Pooky and Ydrasse are town. Seeing at least 1 scum in Pooky and Menalque is also more of the same kind of thing.

VOTE: Alisae

I'm rereading Day

This post doesn't sound like a good reason to join the wagon on Ali, in light of the fact that ali is obvtown

And i had a similar hunch when he voted suji back then.

It's like... all of Day's stances don't feel natural in tone and timing. The bit about ydrasse is almost the same thing that chara said earlier, the vote on suji is based on Luca's case, the vote on Ali is based on Pooky even though "he doesn't like it"

I think heretic

[Farkran]

I am a merciful god though

I think i am more likely to be wrong on Pooky than Day, the guy shall survive

I will reread the papers on Menalque and then provide my judgement about who should burn today

UNVOTE: for now

Pedit: you are a good pope i'm happy with my choice

[Farkran]

Do you think scum!day joins town!luca against partner!suji?

I don't know the guy but it doesn't feel right

I'd buy day+mena+pooky though, mena said he's ok with pooky dead but picked the other side instead?

But enough with pooky, if i am wrong on pooky i might buy... oh shit this isn't easy, i was about to say skitter but skitter/mena aren't teamed i'm pretty sure of that

[Farkran]

i'll never understand the practice of mulling over day 1 solves.
but i'm not in the church of Farkran, i guess. :>

pedit: hi Ydrasse!!!!!!!

Son, i am disappoint

You should join

[Farkran]

I could use *a lot* more insight from Chara but i think one of the reason it was so successful in our scumgame together is because it usually doesn't have *that much* content to offer usually even as town, so... maybe i should move it a bit farther from my towncore until later? Still, i don't want it too far because it smells nice

wanting more content is fair, thinking i don't usually put out content town as is... i'm not sure where you get this or if i should be a little bit insulted you think i did well as scum because my towngame is subpar.

it's not the greatest, but i can play mafia, sometimes. even if i don't know how to.

Wait though

I never said you're bad at being town, i said that i believe you usually offer little content (but tbh i have no idea because i don't want to metadive your town game) based on our scumgame together

Being good at town doesn't necessarily imply that you offer tons of wallposts, that would have more to do with being townread (and not even always), which is a different kind of stuff.

My deduction is that you have been townread as scum because your towngame is usually similar to that, is this not correct?

Why did you feel insulted if i say you didn't produce tons of content?

[Farkran]

alisae how frustrated would you be as scum against this pl

well if I have at least one of {Fark, Skitter, Pooky, Chara} as teammates I'm probably okay and think the game is winnable but I also don't know what scum power has or what town power has or anything so I would have no idea. Now if I don't have teammates I would be fuming

Ali mafia traitor confirmed

No but really in those 4p i'm fairly sure you have more likely 3 team mates with a bare minimum of 1, than any other amount

That sentence made my head ache so i'll clarify: out of fark skit pooky chara you probably have 3 town 1 scum. Chance of 0 scum exists but unlikely

And scum is in skitter/pooky, but i kinda want to sort all of that group later

[Farkran]

I disagree that Norwee vote was worse

But i didn't like it, i asked, and he answered in 1013. I'm fine with that rn

[Farkran]

1012*

[Farkran]

Please Luca, i don’t want to argue with you.
Give it a rest.

I'm not looking for an argument

And this is more about determining Farkran's alignment than it is yours

Wait a second though

You are making a scumcase on norwee for the specific purpose to sort me?

I mean ok, sure, but you saying it out loud really defeats that purpose and i fail to see how this would help you solve, unless you believe me and norwee are a team?

Please explain your pov better because i know you can and i want to start cooperating with my town core, not fighting it

[Farkran]

Please Luca, i don’t want to argue with you.
Give it a rest.

I'm not looking for an argument

And this is more about determining Farkran's alignment than it is yours

Wait a second though

You are making a scumcase on norwee for the specific purpose to sort me?

I mean ok, sure, but you saying it out loud really defeats that purpose and i fail to see how this would help you solve, unless you believe me and norwee are a team?

Please explain your pov better because i know you can and i want to start cooperating with my town core, not fighting it

I believe you and Norwee are a possible team, yes

But I just think it's strange how you're treating Norwee this game in general

I see

But trust me there is a simple reason for me treating norwee the way i am, and that's because the last two normals i played with norwee we were farkran town vs norwee town, and farkran town vs norwee scum

First time i scumreaded him for all the wrong reasons, second time i caught him easily enough (although i was an investigative back then). I think i learned the difference, and even though i didn't like the vote on suji, i believe it was within range, at least enough for me to focus elsewhere for the time being

I really want to vote day again but ali vs mena might be an interesting development too

Pedit: antitown is correct - i don't believe Luca is scummy *at all*, if anything he is deep into town doubt. It's fine and a clear town mindset to have in d1. I suggest to check Day and mena again @luca, we could talk about those two

[Farkran]

I'm happy to talk about anything.

Day hasn't seemed scummy to me?

By reading 1018 don't you think that all of his takes are low effort/not independent?
Like i don't know what you look for when scumhunting, but to me those are the kind of takes you would do when trying to produce fake content. Scum has to fake being town, do we agree with this? It's not like they go around saying "yo there i'm scum, come get me"

So you have to enter a mindset that allows you to hide your knowledge (because you know other people alignments), your emotions (you aren't disappointed when town people get runned up, usually) and then SHOW this to other people.

This often results in disproportionally aggressive or passive statements and/or low content/posts ratio and/or inconsistencies in your posts and progression, opportunism, stuff like that. I think Day's posts are overly passive for a town player and his content/post ratio is quite low.

I assume he is an alt of someone, but so far i don't have any experience with him to say this is within his town range. Do you disagree, and if so, why?

Mena maybe a little? But nothing significant from what I recall

Set aside Day, would you be more willing to consolidate on menalque with me and ali (and maybe norwee), or does this wagon comp trouble you?

[Farkran]

Farkran, I'm falling into the trap on townreading all of you. If I wanted to, I could explain a bunch of reasons for why each person is town, but I don't see that as useful and 'm aware scum has almost certainly blended in with the crowd. 'm being much more vocal about things I find suspicious than things I like essentially, but there hasn't been much of that.

Do you want me to explain townreads?

Yes please

[Farkran]

Mena maybe a little? But nothing significant from what I recall

Set aside Day, would you be more willing to consolidate on menalque with me and ali (and maybe norwee), or does this wagon comp trouble you?

Yeah tbh the wagon comp does trouble me as Norwee and Ali are my top two SR's lol

I'll get to your points on Day in a bit

When did Ali enter your SR list? And why?

[Farkran]

@fark since i posted

Eh i guess

Why am i the only one townreading you?

But like it's not a minor tr, i think i can bet the game on that and i don't understand why my views are so different than anyone else's atm

How the f do you guys scumhunt?

Or townhunt for what matters, i.e. i remember Chara saying it's good at townhunting in undertale (even though it was scum there), we could use some of that too

[Farkran]

Lucy come help me

[Farkran]

skitter30

Farkran
Alisae
PookyTheMagicalBear

Chara

Luca Blight
NorwegianboyEE
LegoLucy

Sujimichi

Ydrasse

Day
Something_

Smart

(Ali, fark, day)?

[Farkran]

skitter30

Farkran
Alisae
PookyTheMagicalBear

Chara

Luca Blight
NorwegianboyEE
LegoLucy

Sujimichi

Ydrasse

Day
Something_

Smart

(Ali, fark, day)?

Fuck multiquotes

I meant to ask: how do i read this?
Striked names are townlocked, and your solve for the scumteam is ali, fark, day?

[Farkran]

I assume Day has a significant past experience with me

I... really like the perspective on skitter. Regardless of whether she's scum or not, it's both detailed and reasonable and the angle pushed is extraordinarily not scummy for Day

Hmmmmm

[Farkran]

VOTE: menalque

I dislike having my vote parked in my garage

[Farkran]

If i am wrong on both Day and Pooky, i need to look again at people i have been tl/overlooking up to now

In the meanwhile, @mena i'd like to hear your case on Ali

Last post for a while from me, i'll be back later tonight (~5 hours or something)

[Farkran]

Farkran I like your readings but it feels like your soul is distant

you should share me anime

What do you mean my soul is distant?

Let's make a deal though

You talk to me about your own, personal reads of norwee and menalque and in exchange i tell you good anime that you might not know about

Payment in advance: you should watch Chuunibyou (season 1 at least) and Made in Abyss

[Farkran]

Wtf why do you not like the anime i suggested, they're both hidden treasures worth being watched even if you aren't fond of their genre

By the way, after thinking about it, i realized my read on Day has fully 180ed after one single post. This is a bit concerning, but i don't want his head anymore at least for today.

I guess i am... partially ok with Lucy? Our reads align a fair amount, but i don't understand her votes. I mean, i get the theory for joining the wagon on norwee, but given her read in 1173 i would expect she would see the menalque wagon more useful and i don't understand why she picked the other side instead

Also ydrasse do you feel better?

[Farkran]

LegoLucy’s stance on me feels really lame because the explanation behind their vote is like an excuse for scum to join my mislim wagon and then argue "well, i did townread them. I just followed Luca!!"

That's not the full story though

She explicitly said she is voting you because 1. Sheep luca, 2. Put pressure (saying it kinda defeats the purpose but everyone seems to be doing that)

My only problem with it is that there was a menalque wagon available, which is a null/sr of lucy, and chose to join the tr wagon instead. This is the weird part.

[Farkran]

luca to elaborate a bit: i townread you fairly strongly at this point
and i believe that you have a fairly high level of accuracy at reading norwee
(you sound kinda exactly like me when i talk abt reading someone like a50 for exactly)

i think you're therefore probably on to something, and i don't know who scum is rn, so i feel like it's worth a shot

i dont' think you're scum who's pulling 'i'm super good at reading norwee and y'all should sheep me because':
- you don't seem to expect you'll get sheeped
- if you were and you misflip town nor you'll lose a load of credibility

for all of those things together, if you're actually that good at reading him, i feel reasonably decent sheeping it

*Hurls in my mouth*
This post is nasty.

Think of it this way, if you knew me/Luca was TvT what would you make of this post here? Hard pocket attempt + kill another town slot.
I also disagree on your take that Luca will lose credibility on a townflip of me, and that’s more what scum would be banking on. If Luca pushes me like this as scum with the knowledge that i would flip town i would be really freaking impressed. The correct stance is that no matter my flip Luca is town here.

Like, this is a solid town post from Norwee to me, not only because it's correct but also because it is quite far from his scumrange afaicr

That being said... i didn't realize how naive is that skitter's take on luca. Not sure if scum!her would pull it with this plist though? I would have to know how much credit she gives around these players, skitter is *usually* on a different league so she may be underestimating someone

As a redeeming factor have seen lost town!skitter in the past, and she *can* be pretty wrong in her takes (ftr it was the pyp where i hydraed with Kerset). I'm puzzled that her takes here aren't as strong as what she was doing around page 10-20.

Skitter, honest answer: are you having a hard time keeping up with the pace of this game?

[Farkran]

Anyway i think Mena might legit be bad news so far and i scumread them more than Suji from the start. I just wanted to see how the game would react around wagons such as Suji, and maybe even help me solve Mena even better.
VOTE: Menalque

Why is mena 'bad news so far'. I'm actually kinda confident he's town after his brief pop in yesterday

Could you say what in your mind triggered the townlean on menalque?

I mean i think i know the posts you're referring to (iirc you also said it explicitly) but i'd like to hear why would you associate that with town!mena with such high confidence, as if it was completely outside of his scumrange

Because i think it isn't outside of scum!mena to do that and it isn't particularly hard to fake

Pedit: oh hm, your last post kinda explains that but i'd have to bop town!you for that and i'm not sure i'm ready for it

[Farkran]

HOLY SHIT I THINK I KNOW WHO LEGOLUCY IS

Lucy you're an alt right?

[Farkran]

Btw i really, really don't want to metadive anymore, ever again. It's not fun and i don't think it's worth it anymore

I acknowledge that you offered a game to backup your theory though

[Farkran]

I think my towncore is quite solid with Alisae and Luca as firm staples

Day, SS and Norwee now follow closely

Everyone else is game tbh but today i'd like to flip one of menalque and pooky in that respective order.

If lucy is who i think she is, i will bop her as town hard

[Farkran]

sure fark let's go

what do you SR me for?

I never progressed on your read since my last vote on you, but your wagon died and now i think mena is more worth flipping

[Farkran]

Progression alisae was bad

I don't know what scum is doing and you would fit if you were as per your vote history. Other people who would fit have provided reason to be townread

[Farkran]

ok which part of my alisae progression did you not like?

can you explain why it is more likely to be a scum progression rather than a town progression?

I know you've said this before and you can just use your previous quotes if you want, I'd like you to have the chance to present your argument rather than me selectively pick which parts of it to respond to.

729, except the part about Day (last paragraph) because i no longer sr him

And subsequent posts 732, 737, 740 in their entirety

I did not grow past that - i kinda liked your reaction to it in the subsequent pages but see, you have not grown much either

i.e. i thought Day was scum, talked to him, changed my mind

I had doubts about norwee, i've let him talk a bit more, i'm fairly sure he's town

I still have doubts about skitter but she's a hard read, i will probably never have a *strong* read about her and i believe the game will help me later on

[Farkran]

@fark

I just reread every post between

638 (my case) and 721(where you claim i backpedaled)

not a single post from any player in this game adequately defends or rebuts my case against Alisae

there's Chara's reaction:

"why does this progression miss that Alisae was reacting to your scumread on em?"

which completely messed up the timeline since my case is AFTER Ali decides to vote me.

There's SS saying that Ali would emulate ali's town meta

something I easily rebut with quotes from Alisae.

There's not a single post where people debunk my case in any meaningful way.

So where would I even get worried enough to backpedal?

I mean, this is part of the problem

You backpedaled for no reason after norwee's questioning, you weren't offered motives for doubting you read

(I didn't read the post before this though, i just skimmed and saw that you misinterpreted my accusation of backpedaling - give me a minute and i'll read the wall too)

[Farkran]

I can be wrong on anyone, that much is obvious to me - to insist that I can't possibly be wrong is just incredibly arrogant and imo quite disrespectful to everyone here.

That's not the point though, i explicitly said that my problem is not that you could in fact be wrong, but rather the change in your degree of certainty that you could be. Check again my post with the spoiler tags to see what i am referring to. First you were omfg burn the scum, with caps lock and strong statements, then you went "oh ofc i could be wrong" -> this doesn't look like you acknowledging you could be wrong, but rather you *know* you're wrong and do not want to be bopped on a wrong flip. This is the scum motivation you were asking for.

Me admitting as much to Norwee is not me reconsidering on Alisae - it is just me being realistic about the odds Alisae flips scum/town.

You could have been realistic since the beginning, OR you could have continued to push there if you were (are?) convinced e is scum - that would have been protown behavior.

You believe that scum!me looked at Alisae and slammed a case on Alisae hoping mis-elim Alisae and then backed off due to some people defending Alisae?

I think that's not a very accurate description of the game state at all.

Let's look at what actually happened.

638 <- my case
701 <- Day votes Alisae
721 <- I respond to Norwee's question and say yea I could be wrong
722 <- you vote me for "backpedalling"

Now notice from 638 -> 721 there are no new votes on me, in fact if anything momentum is on my side as Day joins me vs Alisae ->

There is no tactical reason to backpedal or back off - > no scum motivation to reposition.

There's no reason as town either, given that nothing happened except a question from norwee. If you are convinced that ali is scum, you kill scum, you don't flail about being wrong after having produced a strong case on a strong scumread of yours - from my pov, you only do that if you have *serious* doubts about your read, and that's not what you have shown in your initial posting (again, see my spoilered quotes for reference)

There is also timing -> the timing from my case in 638 and what you call "bacpedalling" in 721 is 1 hour and 40 minutes - not even enough time for most of the game to even read and think about my case, so why would I be backpedalling off a strong case that people haven't even gotten a chance to read yet?

The timing and motivation do not fit a scum repositioning off a bad push - if anything my push had momentum as people were joining me on Alisae and noone was voting me for the push at that point in time - so why even backpedal?

Yeah, why? Maybe if you explain this to me clearly we could come to an agreement - as i said, i don't see any town motive to do so

Lastly I disagree with your contention it was backpedaling at all.

If you look at the exchange between me and norwee, the original "pooky could be wrong" is about me being wrong on Ydrasse and Alisae not considering that possibility in E's scenarios - and why that was scummy. Norwee followed up by asking about whether I could be wrong on Alisae - and I admitted sure I could be.

Framing a simple statement of fact that I can be wrong as me backpedalling off my case is kind of silly imo.

Again - admitting you could be wrong is not backpedaling nor it is scum. Changing the strength of your read for no reason is

I understand in this game people need to puff their chests up and exaggerate the surety of their convictions - after all confidence tends to be townread in the current meta and when people are unsure they tend to follow the most confident voice in the room.

That is something I am perfectly capable of doing -> as either alignment, I probably tend to reconsider less as scum tbh.

Actually you don't need to - which is one more reason why i don't understand why you have chosen to do so and then stopped. I have been both townread and scumread for overconfidence, both as town!me and scum!me, the correct choice involves knowing the player, reading the gamestate, etc.

For instance, my scumread on you is nowhere near as strong as you have shown to be certain of your sr on ali. You could be town. I don't know you as a player, and that makes my read even weaker - still, i see ground for you to be scum too.

I have lost many games for being confidently wrong on someone in day 1, I don't want to make the entire game about me and someone I SR, there's no real need for that and if I am wrong then it tends to let the scum obfuscate themselves. So I will vary and lay back a bit.

Me too - or rather, i would have but then i won because i was carried by better players (at least within the context of those particular games)

Overall my biggest issue with your contention that I backed off Alisae for scum!motivation is that it mis-represents the actual game state and flow at that point in time and I have no need to do that as scum, in fact it opens me up to a line of attack that I would not be open to if I had simply stayed on an attacking path.

Eh, i disagree. But i think i am the only one who does, and i've learned my lesson about being too stubborn in these circumstances. Your wagon died, atm i don't want to fight for it - i think there are still fair chances for you to be scum and if a new wagon arises i might be voting you again, depends on how things go. Or perhaps you are just town, but nothing happened so far for me to do a 180 on you like i did for Day.

For instance - i think your defense is ok but ultimately nai - you could produce some insight about your reads instead, and talk to me about who i should vote and why

Pedit: too many posts while i was walling, i'll read them shortly

[Farkran]

yes - in fact, that's pretty much how I play D1 even if I'm in from the beginning.

This is true

[Farkran]

You're coming into this game and stating you townread Skitter and then vote me just because i'm the biggest wagon otherwise, and i'm telling you that sounds like complete garbage.

This *might* be townpoints for PP

I'm in with your other reads though

[Farkran]

skitter22, what exactly in that interaction made you like the vote more?

He's reacting badly and is apparently positing that 2/3 of the scumteam ks piling on him to mislim him rn, whe he has a wagon of exactly 3 votes iirc

Why is this scummy though?

Assuming you know norwee as a player that is

[Farkran]

norwee do you think you are a viable mis-elim?

Do i think so? Idk. I honestly don't care very much.
But do scum often think i am? Yes.
Sometimes scum do pocket me, but more often that not they will try to eliminate or discredit me when i am town.

I think when you get hardpushed as town, you make the most pitiful cries that can only come from town!norwee and you obvtown yourself and become un-elimmable.

The only time I saw you mis-elimmed is that game we played where you painted yourself into a corner and ended up dying lol.

My approach to you as scum is always to pocket you, because you are very easy to pocket lol and very hard to mis-elim. That's why I don't see scum motivation in skitter's approach to you.

*raises hand*

I miselimed town!norwee and he did exactly that. In that game he was a vig and shot town!alisae lol

Norwee do you remember that?

[Farkran]

very residentsleeper game going on or I just have no idea whats going on

Game is lacking a punch to move wagons forward

Also 2 people vla

More people should vote mena

[Farkran]

Lucy

Talk to me about why skitter is scum and menalque is not

[Farkran]

Are we really eliming skitter d1?

But more importantly, what the fuck is scum doing in this game? I mean i have taken a look at the two main wagons and i think they are all town driven

Except maybe PP but even then i don't particularly scumread the slot

[Farkran]

Are we really eliming skitter d1?

Is the notion of eliminating Skitter day 1 in any game something you'd find to be undesirable?

Kinda

I think skitter cannot escape being killed, investigated or policy'ed ar some point

And she's never an easy read so i feel we are wasting our accuracy by voting her instead of looking elsewhere today

[Farkran]

Pooky

Please vote someone and provide a reason

I promise i will townread you after that

[Farkran]

Actually my question is why would i wk skitter as scum in the first place

And why do you think i am wking skitter in second place, because i don't think i am

[Farkran]

Anyways i'll have you know though that i am *seriously* thinking about voting skitter right now and i have been for a while, that's how much i am wking her

But i think mena and skit aren't scum together and i still find mena scummier, this is reason 1

Reason 2 is what i said earlier, i think flipping skitter d1 is inefficient, the maximum amount of accuracy we can get on her is very low which implies not only a problem of flipping correctly, but we would also gain the least
possible amount of info from that flip. There are better ways around that.

Lastly, i think there is a certain amount of "i want to be the one who caught scum!skit" in the people voting her right now, which is unhealthy. I think both the main wagons are town driven, it is plausible that one of the targets is scum, but i'd rather bet this day on mena rn

Pedit: lol i would have bet my rolepm on you voting me, i knew that even before i asked you to. But you provided a reason (not in the vote post which is silly, but if you honestly believe i was wking skitter it's ok) so a promise is a promise

[Farkran]

Anyways i'll have you know though that i am *seriously* thinking about voting skitter right now and i have been for a while, that's how much i am wking her

this is btw the exact thing i would expect you to do as scum in this game state after I call you out on WKing skitter

Except i've been doing that since, like... 20 pages now?

But that's ok you're town now

All you need to do is improve your reads xd

[Farkran]

Sigh

I am sad i have to accept my promise

How am i supposed to miselim town!skit if i, and half of the plist, are wking her

[Farkran]

is there anything you want me to actively take a stance on

i work better w direction

Yes please, gimme a minute

[Farkran]

Ydrasse would you please vote someone and provide a reason for it?

Unfortunately i have already spent my townread pass on pooky, but i can promise i'll treat you an ice cream during our zoo trip

[Farkran]

Sigh

I am sad i have to accept my promise

How am i supposed to miselim town!skit if i, and half of the plist, are wking her

Btw pooky this was a serious question, not sarcasm

If i am scum who wants credit for wking town!skit but blessing her miselim, you should have realized by now that it's hardly gonna happen without my and my team's help when pretty much only the three currently on wagon are thinking about flipping her

[Farkran]

take it back from him and slip it into my hand as u try to hold mine... think of how smooth you'd feel

OMG ARE YOU EVEN SERIOUS

Guys. I fell in love.

Again.

[Farkran]

@Farkran
What in your opinion, is the differences between your town and scum games?

This happens to be a difficult question because i am returning since a ~8 months break and i feel different as a player right now, but i feel like some perks don't really change, like being unable to fakeclaim properly.

Aside from that, i have just concluded a game where i was scum and people told me i did good - i do believe i did fairly good even if i was forced to concede d3, but there have been scumgames where i think i did better, mostly thanks to my determination in assessing my reads. I think i am good at forming coherent reads as scum, more than i am as town, which is a problem when i need to fake that.

A disastrous scumgame of mine is the one where i was smashed by town!Ame, i was scum with pinkball and mastina, but i thought i did good there too, so...

[Farkran]

Fark do you want a skitter elim or not?

Gun to head? No, i'd rather see someone else's card

Will i fight to save her? No

[Farkran]

@ydrasse do you like anything from mena?

[Farkran]

@ydrasse do you like anything from mena?

uh... uh...

his presence?

Spoiler:

nothing has jumped out as really towny to me but i dont want him to be scum so i am choosing not to see it

p-edit: YEAH that

How much would it cost me to have you join the wagon?

Please don't take advantage of the fact that i am in love

Because i wouldn't notice

[Farkran]

Farkran can you substantiate why you actually SR me?

I feel like you are playing the core of your scumgame

Big opening, try to become everyone's buddy

Upon failure, wait patiently until the focus shifts somewhere else

Appear seldomly to avoid being lurkshot, without providing anything substantial

In contrast with the town!mena i know who is way less buddying and much more insightful, perhaps even too aggressive at times

I remember town!you forming reads quickly and they haven't been always accurate but far from terrible in the games we played together

[Farkran]

Almost 3 am, about to sleep

Any last questions for me?

[Farkran]

Hey penguin y r u voting 4 me

i can't vote this player anymore
UNVOTE:
they feel so lost and not in a scummy way.

Ali get back on board

[Farkran]

bro i just played a scumgame with mena where he got covid and when he came back he wasn't even this frozen man :/

Who is scum then

Like, the wagon on him is probably full town now

[Farkran]

Actually yeah Skitter would probably be bussing him by now

This

[Farkran]

Farkran can you substantiate why you actually SR me?

I feel like you are playing the core of your scumgame

Big opening, try to become everyone's buddy

Upon failure, wait patiently until the focus shifts somewhere else

Appear seldomly to avoid being lurkshot, without providing anything substantial

In contrast with the town!mena i know who is way less buddying and much more insightful, perhaps even too aggressive at times

I remember town!you forming reads quickly and they haven't been always accurate but far from terrible in the games we played together

Firstly, have you ever even played w/ scum!me?

Secondly, I’m p different to how I used to be

Thirdly, what’s not insightful about my takes here? Just because I’m not elaborating a lot doesn’t make them bad

Not directly, i was in your scumteam during tm2020 (kerset) and i looked through some of your games during our normal together where i was pissed as fuck

Yeah that's out of date but if i am wrong could you please obvtown it for me?

[Farkran]

What about Menalque/Ali

If i look at this game with town!pooky in mind... i guess maybe. I disliked the unvote too, i mean regardless of mena aligment that was kinda an antitown move which isn't really in ali's strings

But so far alisae was in the olympus of town gods so i am surprised by er stance with the current gamestate

Highest wagon before er unvote was e-3, games are usually way faster when ali is in, even though i remember a game where we were both town and e was much more collected for some reason

@ali could you explain? Is this one of those games?

Anyways this would only make sense if mena/ali are s/s so i don't care about switching rn

[Farkran]

Yeah I’m liking Farkran’s recent posts.

I believe he hard townreads SS but not sure if he ever explained it? If so I’d like to hear it

I believe i have pointed out at least a couple posts from SS that were really towny

Also in my first normal game i and SS were town and i used to scumread him for like the entirety of d1, led town to push him to a claim and he was a mason, then we fought some more in later days lol

Ultimately he came up with fair reads and a nice strategy which carried us to a victory so i'll let him do his job, not a target for today at all

[Farkran]

I mean the idea would be that your unvote would kill off the entire wagon, there were 3 at the time, minus yours = 2

Game was a bit stalling so it would make sense

The bit about giving you attention because you don't do what i expect you to is true tho, i miss the days where we bruteforcely solved d1 - but it's also true that this pl is particularly hard, if anything because we're pretty much all friends and we don't want them to be scum

[Farkran]

Like there are some people i would feel proud to catch if scum, others i would feel bad if i did

And i believe this might be influencing my reads a fair amount

For instance, i think i might have townbinned chara too early and i need to reread it

[Farkran]

Well, if he's scum i think he is trying to survive by waiting for the focus to shift elsewhere. That's one of the main pillars of my theory for scum!mena. It is especially efficient if he doesn't have time to olay as his usual self, as some people have pointed out.

Whereas if he is town i have no answer. There are players who dislike d1's with all their might, but menalque wasn't one of them at all.

[Farkran]

if he's town why wouldn't scum want to try to keep him in the scumpool?

More like, why aren't scum voting him?

Which leads to the question - what do you think of the wagon currently going against menalque? Fark, PP, Luca, Norwee

I have *at least* 3 of them as town, the outsider would be PP (suji slot). He could be scum. Looking back at the original wagon against suji (luca, day, pooky, norwee iirc?) with the hindsight of day being probably town is not a terrible wagon either, and the slot hasn't done anything to grow - the only difference would be that i expect suji to be like that whereas i didn't expect it from menalque at all. Still, PP bussing there wouldn't be a surprise.

But, back to the original topic - i think mena is *very* mislimable, with very little consequence, so... why not vote him?

Who is wking mena for no/little reason?

[Farkran]

I can see skitter, chara, ydrasse, pooky, maybe lucy

@all of these, why aren't you voting mena? Share your thoughts

[Farkran]

because we're pretty much all friends and we don't want them to be scum

You don't?
And i was getting all excited over banishing any of my friends that rolled scum to the shadow realm.

I have more fun being scum trolling my friends

When i'm town i kinda feel bad if my friends roll scum, but even then it depends from player to player

[Farkran]

VOTE: lucy
i think that this is scum and i don't get teh townreads on her. if you're townreading her feel free to enlighten me

i do not like her mena vote and i strongly dislike 1651

I think lucy is town, but my confidence in this read may vary significantly depending on whether she is who i think she is or not

I've been holding my theory because i don't know the ms etiquette for alt guessing - by the way, if i guessed correctly, i'm like 99% sure she's town. My read of lucy, netting her identity, is still a townlean though

She's been on menalque for a while now so i don't see anything bad in her consolidating on the wagon + i don't think earlier posts from her were scummy? Her vote on you is legit

I've had one issue with lucy which is post 1163+1173 (why does she vote her tr rather than her sl?) but she explained it kinda transparently and i don't think scum!her would do that if mena is town

Pedit: 120k posts

[Farkran]

skitter30

Farkran
Alisae
PookyTheMagicalBear

Chara

Luca Blight
NorwegianboyEE

LegoLucy

Sujimichi

Ydrasse

Day
Something_

Smart

VOTE: lucy

I mean you're kinda doing it on purpose now

[Farkran]

20 pages overnight i hate you all

But first and foremost, this was a serious post

skitter30

Farkran
Alisae
PookyTheMagicalBear

Chara

Luca Blight
NorwegianboyEE

LegoLucy

Sujimichi

Ydrasse

Day
Something_

Smart

VOTE: lucy

I mean you're kinda doing it on purpose now

I mean you're kinda doing it on purpose now

?

Mena had been called multiple times for being unsolvey and inconsistent by this time

There's no amount of sadness or stoning that would make you not notice what i meant with my post within this context

Displaying gnorance/lack of understanding at this point is intentional - i mean, why would you not do it when you see it is working (notice that this happened *after* skitter put her veto on mena)

Consistently with menalque situation i expect town would have at least answered "i don't care/i don't trust myself over skit so i'm just sheeping her"

And that might have been a honest answer maybe

[Farkran]

hi i'm back, unwillingly. do you guys need me or can i just coast and then take credit/blame for whatever happens?

Welcome back Chara! Yes i need you

I haven't read through the news yet but i am very interested in your opinion wrt the menalque topic, and on skitter as well

If you've already delivered nevermind i'll be back in 183737 hours after i'm done catching up

[Farkran]

the wagon on mena is for meta reasons

she is using her knowledge of his play to defend him

seems perfectly reasonable esp since she and him are fairly close friends who talk often.

in regards to redacted tho - I would say his passion in that game upon being launched was quite a bit more unrestrained than he is displaying now.

Has he become more mature and less carey? Cuz he is getting scumread for it rn.

Not really though, it's not just meta

We are using meta to discern wheter it would or wouldn't be inside his scumrange to fake this amount of lostness and tonal desperation but the plays are scummy independently

[Farkran]

VOTE: Day

Ouch.

This is a bad stance to pick within that particular timeframe, when Day is simply trying to translate lucyese (correctly, imo) - how did you get to vote Day?

Like, even if you think mena is town (hint: he isn't), scum!day doesn't talk about any!lucy here

I'm assuming you weren't caught up with the thread since you had like 60 pages behind but i suggest you read the recent Day because the guy is town

[Farkran]

Walking to the bus but something just hit me

The townbloc is accurate and Skitter is desperately trying to throw a spanner in the works?

You mean if we're wrong on mena, or independently of that?

By the way i will reread skit better later today because there's something that i don't get in her analysis of the situation

Let's say that i believe she's sincere when talking about mena (regardless of correctness) -> how does that translate into voting lucy. This is a stance i didn't like at all. I read her case about lucy and i don't think it's valid. The way i read lucy's 1800 is that lucy doesn't want people to vanity vote and within the current gamestate i feel that she's correct, almost the whole active plist (including mena lol) was townreading lucy, for good reason if you ask me, and skitter's treating her like lucy scumslipped into some bad push when lucy has been on menalque since forever.

The way skit tried to divert attention from menalque sounds like too safe a choice because lucy is never the elim today and skit should know that

Scum!skit does wk town!mena here, she's done that with me in our newbie game together

But once again, this means skit/mena are disaligned and i'm getting confused.

[Farkran]

Because he dislike me too. You are sharing a hobby with him to flirt him into your pocket. Hunting Lucy hobby. But you are faking your interest in the hobby. Bad date. Menal probably serious in hobby and think I might vacation. Menal silly.

day.

she's literally saying that i'm trying to pocket mena by sharing his scumread on her

(and thus casting grand aspersions on my reads, my motivations for them, how i'm interacting with mena)

when. mena. was. townreading. lucy.

Ok no, this is not the point, and i get how lucy is wrong in this post now

Skit has no need to pocket mena. She has a need to get credit for wking him if he's town

But it still does not explain why lucy is scummy because of that, her sr of mena started way earlier

[Farkran]

I don't mean your initial Lucy suspicions, I mean your recent ones and picking to push her over anyone else.

i don't have context for skitter's initial suspicion of Lucy, but why do you townread her so strongly? a quote would be fine if it's there.

I know her main and her play is strongly towny for her.

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuggghhhhhhhhhhhh fine

okay, so who should skitter have picked to push instead of Lucy?

i know i should just be reading up fully but doing this is so much easier to parse, i apologize.

A town!skit who townreads mena should vote PP 100% of the times here

[Farkran]

thats a fair point

VOTE: lucy

I mean i made a promise but why is anyone else townreading pooky now?

Man this is terrible...

[Farkran]

i don't get the argument that skitter should vote someone who will actually go to elimination to save Mena, it kind of sidesteps the act of voting a player you scumread and is just a weird framing of the vote.

pedit: eh.

From the start of 1800, it looks like Lucy sees herself as very townread in the village, so she might be thinking wolf skitter's making a push that doesn't actually have a chance of going through to save Menalque, and is only doing it for appearances? The pocket thing is flawed but I can see reasoning behind that part of it.

This

Literally this

[Farkran]

i don't get the argument that skitter should vote someone who will actually go to elimination to save Mena, it kind of sidesteps the act of voting a player you scumread and is just a weird framing of the vote.

pedit: eh.

From the start of 1800, it looks like Lucy sees herself as very townread in the village, so she might be thinking wolf skitter's making a push that doesn't actually have a chance of going through to save Menalque, and is only doing it for appearances? The pocket thing is flawed but I can see reasoning behind that part of it.

if scum-me is trying to save partner-mena that would be a very ineffective way of goinb about it, no?

Nah scum!you busses mena 100% of the times here

[Farkran]

right, the person she just voted to e1

I can sympathize with reading two players independently and not doing pre-flip team reads but I agree it is a little jarring in this case.

she's literally going: e-1 mena
and then shortly thereafter saying that i'm scum trying to pocket him

why and how she switched from one to the other isn't clear, and those universes don't make sense to believe in at the same time

And this is scummy how...?

i.e. in what universe scum!lucy unvotes town!mena to go on a crusade against town!skit?

[Farkran]

ok so we're basically saying that you think the most viable explanation for me pushign you right now is:
- scum me
- pushing you instead of someone on wagon that is actually flippable
- so that i can save mena

and that all of htis is more likely than ... me townreading mena and voting the worst vote on wagon?

~~
again from my pov you realize how this sounds ridiculous, right?

It isn't ridiculous but most importantly it isn't scummy *at all*

scum!lucy trashes any!mena

The only lucy who goes against skitter is town!lucy who believes skit is scummier than mena

[Farkran]

Then there's, I think your interaction with Mena has a big vibe of exactly one scum in {Menalque, skitter} so that flips me some between those.

this doesnt really make sense to me at all

Explain why not

Because it actually does a lor

[Farkran]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80641
Also you and farkran were in this game where iirc it was the first time mena did the whole 'townbin skits etc' thing
So i know you've seen it before

(Incidentally he got burned, but whatever)

Actually in this game town!mena unvoted the other scum for the specific purpose of eliming scum!skit d1, and he was powerlimmed d2 because of that

I remember that like it was yesterday

[Farkran]

re: the actual content, Day's commitment to defusing the situation around your slot/translating or explaining your posts pinged, and then after being called on that and with the skitter timeline thing, they pulled back and did seem to reconsider themself.
it gives me pause, and i'm not sure i agree with skitter about it being NAI, since it's scum who might benefit from taking the reasonable, less aggro-approach, while i usually characterize town as being more protective of their opinions. but there exist reasonable town, too. and i have a tendency myself to scumread that agreeableness some players just Have.

Do you townread lucy at the time of this post?

[Farkran]

oh I dont think day is scummy - the defense is too weak and ineffective for that.

my question was actually to Lucy, i just took a while asking it.

the defense being ineffective is part of why i didn't like it, actually. it just felt like scum knowing Lucy's town and so easily finding the town thought process, then communicating that to defuse the miscommunication to look reasonable/town.

Nvm my last question

Day is still town though, defusing the argument is not scummy, especially if he townreads lucy and if he knows who lucy is beforehands?

[Farkran]

it doesn't matter what you want! mafia is about mercilessly voting your mafia e-girlfriend!!! just kill her!! dead!!! that's love!!!!

Shit, now i need to eat up everything i just said and vote lucy

HOWEVER THOUGH, does she count as a girlfriend if she doesn't love me back?

[Farkran]

like im just

i feel super frustrated already w this game which is dumb but it feels like I Do Not Get To Have Fun Playing this one + i dont get to play how i want to (read, fun bc i really like this player list) and it will take me flipping town for people to see it's not AI for me to act like this i guess, idk

I do notice a higher level of frustration coming from you though and i have to agree with skitter that you were quicker to attack your attackers in the last game

Can you explain where's the difference between, say, skitter and costello/flea?

this is like, 10000 days late but i wanna answer this while i'm reading: i think i was especially frustrated by skitter's push bc i find being fun/social/flirty in games with player lists i like as something which is genuinely not alignment indicative for me, and it was irritating at the time to me because it felt like i am going to get scumread this game for behavior that i just find fun, and i won't be able to show everyone for sure 100% that it isn't an alignment thing with me until after this game/if i get flipped or killed, which sucks because i just want to hang out

i'm finding that one shortcoming of having a killer pl is that i'm the type of person who would rather hang out with people than actually solve and offer only potshots which doesn't do much for the game itself, but basically i took that push to heart especially. also, as i said before, it's really dumb fmpov to try something that just made me lose over again in the hopes that somehow it works this time

(sorry i just wanted to clarify this even though it's super old news)

(also might i say, i get fuckall from the first like, 30 pages or so, i'm where i started the game with luca + day town, alisae is town (and in general i think alisae's readslist in 537 is a fine one, barring 1-2 things, and goes with my reads from the start to that point), the push on me still feels like... skitter is town? probably? still yeah, i don't really think anyone's playing Overtly scummy so far)

back to trying to read up but my eyes are glazing over

Wow i had actually forgot this, thanks for getting back to me

At the time i was more on skitter's side than yours but things have turned around, which leads me to ask this question

@skit can you explain why you were determined to look for scum on-wagon if you think there's only 1 scum in there?


On a side note, i feel for you ydrasse, sorry. I admit i am part of your problem, generally speaking. Even when i try not to be too much competitive it turns out that i feel i'm not doing my job if i don't play the game. We should really go to the zoo instead, there you can have my undivided fluffy attention

[Farkran]

What's the narrative version where I'm scum? I'm scum with skitter and found a chance to lim one? They're both town and I found a chance to lim my limmable townread instead of move mountains getting voters on skitter who has 3 people refusing to vote her under any alignment and 2 scumpartners for like, a unanimity requirement? I just kind of have that incentive no matter my alignment. Actually I just explained the incentive is much higher if I'm town because it's realistic to eliminate skitter if she doesn't have scumpartners.

Yes, and i'm surprised i'm the only one who got that in the latest 10 pages

How do you still townread pooky? Is there something i'm missing?

[Farkran]

that makes no sense unless you think skitter and mena are scum together?

I think both should be destroyed at this point.
If Mena town, Skitter will be destructive and likely scum benefitting from their flip.
If both scum the survivor can argue they are confirmed town now.
If Mena scum and Skitt!town then Skitter is just playing anti-town anyway.

This is kinda a bad take norwee

[Farkran]

why would skitter scum pump the brakes on a mena town miselim that is lookjng likely to go thru? this table is stacked af - there is not a single lhf. you think scum will fight agajnst a miselim on town that hard?

No lhfs what

The suji/PP slot has been the epitome of lhf since the beginning of this game, besides mena

And PP was on the mena wagon

Pedit: i'll be with you in a minute, almost over

[Farkran]

It could just be Skitter defending their partner too.

Eh, this is the issue

1. scum!skit busses mena here, but even if she decides to twist her playstyle (i do that as scum, i *try* to have a varied meta to reduce my readability)

2. she doesn't pick lucy to save him, she picks PP, or, if PP is also scum

3. she picks outside of wagon and keeps up her townread of the people there since nobody there was really ttacking her before

These are too many steps to fake even if skit was extremely selfaware as scum

Which means duh, i think skitter is way way way too naive in this game and menalque might be... town just because of that?

Pooky/skitter would make a lot of sense

[Farkran]

Eh ok then

VOTE: skitter it is.

[Farkran]

I spent two hours on this catchup fu all

This was intense though if you want to talk to me i'll be available for a couple more minutes

[Farkran]

Wagon looks promising

Maybe something like {Skitter, Chara + ??}

The chances of there being scum on the Lucy wagon rn seems high

Maybe

Pending chara's opinion on skitter

[Farkran]

i have experienced her scumgame only once, i didn't townread her but also didn't manage to catch her.
not that i plan to use meta here.

Lucy: did you explain the process of scumreading skitter for WKing Mena, while voting Mena?

She defended him in a way that I didn't see her doing as a pair. People have pointed out she'd probably bus and I agree.

I've scumread skitter more throughout the game so it didn't take much for me to switch.

I think I've been over it but I'm in a mood to talk about this game ad nauseam kinda, somehow.

.....
isis
.....

this. is. not. how. he. approaches. this. as. scum

luca and fark and norwee are citing like six-month old meta and saying that he's scummy because of it
i'm citing things that happened literally last week and the week prior and am trying to say that they're all hopelessly out of date at best and are scumreading him for not looking like his classicial town meta when i dont' think he would here *as either alignment*

why on earth any of you think you're more of an authority on this than i am is utterly baffling to me

given that context of course i'm gonna defend him from nonsensical pushes that are ridiculous, no? what do yout hink i should do, just sit here and let you misflip him? like .....

and if i did i'd get called scum who's sitting here
y'all have set up a dynamic where i'm wrong no matter how i approach this

and i'm telling you lot that you're. wrong. on. mena. anyways.

Ok

But your take on Lucy is still terrible and it does not feel like you were pushing her way to save menalque

That's the reason why we're scumreading you now

[Farkran]

Mena actually you maybe feel a littlw scummy to me (?)
I'm not sure tho

(To be clear i'm not like pushing you per se but rather want to try to get a better vibe)

Yes basically. Probably isnt ai
Honestly you being so blunt abt it makes me feel better

Actually before we go on speaking

Could you explain to me why you were scumleaning menalque up to this point if you say that he's been through hardships/change of playstyle during the past week?

Please share your thoughts prior to posts 1144, we understand that *now* you've changed your mind but i want to know about earlier

[Farkran]

Ok

But your take on Lucy is still terrible and it does not feel like you were pushing her way to save menalque

That's the reason why we're scumreading you now

beause her take on me and mena was terrible ....
i mean from my perspective how do you think her take looks ...


This is how you see it:

right, the person she just voted to e1

I can sympathize with reading two players independently and not doing pre-flip team reads but I agree it is a little jarring in this case.

she's literally going: e-1 mena
and then shortly thereafter saying that i'm scum trying to pocket him

why and how she switched from one to the other isn't clear, and those universes don't make sense to believe in at the same time

And this is scummy how...?

i.e. in what universe scum!lucy unvotes town!mena to go on a crusade against town!skit?

and what exactly is my motivation for pushing her as scum again if i'm not trying to save mena, which i believe was the prior motivation ascribed to me?

taking credit for wking town while pushing a useless wagon on lucy?

I mean your vote on lucy is probably the worst take in the entire game so far and i think you should see that? I would think you'd have reconsidered by now but the fact you aren't sounds like you are grasping at straws rn

[Farkran]

farkran i feel like you're trying not to udnerstand me almost

trust me i am

but i can't, and i get the same feeling about you not trying to understand me

listen to this:

EVEN IF you believe menalque is town

EVEN IF you believe there is scum on his wagon

EVEN IF lucy is wrong on you trying to pocket menalque

HOW is lucy scummy by unvoting town!mena to go on a crusade against town!you?

[Farkran]

and what r u even talking about

why would scum pooky be voting/pushing town lucy when lucy has been one of the slots defending/buddying me the hardest from d1?


your takes are ridiculously bad right now farkran.

only increasing my conviction you are scum at this point.

Your opinions are so loaded at this point that i'm not even sure you're reading my posts when replying to me

like literally the only reason i'm not voting you is because nobody else would join me

to be *extremely* clear and transparent: you're scummier than skitter, i take back my promise because it was bullshit in the first place, and i'd be amazed if you didn't flip scum here.

[Farkran]

perhaps i didn't make myself clear enough:

HOW is lucy scummy by unvoting town!mena WHICH SHE HAD JUST PUT TO E-1 LIKE THREE POSTS EARLIER to go on a crusade against town!SKITTER?

[Farkran]

thats a fair point

VOTE: lucy

There is one thing on which pooky is correct though

skitter's take isn't the worst one.

This vote on lucy is LITERALLY TERRYIFING.

[Farkran]

I was reading to the present times I also like VOTE: Menalque

Menalque needs one more vote to receive vacation

Is the wagon E1?

I’m just gonna unvote here as I’m still VLA and don’t want the day to end yet regardless

UNVOTE:

oh my god

lucy placing mena at e-1 was one of the reason skit scumread her for

and you're calling me bad because i can't read the gamestate.

[Farkran]

Skitter I actually think you're probably Town atm

can we vote pooky now?

[Farkran]

Skit has no need to pocket mena. She has a need to get credit for wking him if he's town

why. do. i. wk. him. instead. of. just. letting. him. get. flipped.

nobody, none of you, have explained this part

Read again the newbie game we played together and tell me why you wked me when i was E-1 in that game

in your words

[Farkran]

Skit has no need to pocket mena. She has a need to get credit for wking him if he's town

why. do. i. wk. him. instead. of. just. letting. him. get. flipped.

nobody, none of you, have explained this part

Read again the newbie game we played together and tell me why you wked me when i was E-1 in that game

in your words

FOR THE RECORD and for people who didn't read that

skitter wking me d1 is literally how pops won us the game in elo3 against skitter and emps

[Farkran]

A town!skit who townreads mena should vote PP 100% of the times here

i'm better at reading penguin than you, and i'm also better at reading penguin than i am at reading most of the people on the wagon, and i have some townpings from his entrance

so why, pray tell, is pp my vote there?

because if you believe there's scum on wagon it's NEVER, EVER lucy

literally never

you could have voted me and i would probably have felt better

[Farkran]

ok so we're basically saying that you think the most viable explanation for me pushign you right now is:
- scum me
- pushing you instead of someone on wagon that is actually flippable
- so that i can save mena

and that all of htis is more likely than ... me townreading mena and voting the worst vote on wagon?

~~
again from my pov you realize how this sounds ridiculous, right?

It isn't ridiculous but most importantly it isn't scummy *at all*

scum!lucy trashes any!mena

The only lucy who goes against skitter is town!lucy who believes skit is scummier than mena

ok why is this not ridiculous
we all agree that me voting lucy there is bad
we can assume scum-me would know that it would be bad and ineffectual

so why are we all accusing me of doing this anyways .... ?

by now there have been at least 4 people explaining how it is not?

But you're conveniently avoiding the most important part which is

it is not scummy at all

[Farkran]

why would skitter scum pump the brakes on a mena town miselim that is lookjng likely to go thru? this table is stacked af - there is not a single lhf. you think scum will fight agajnst a miselim on town that hard?

No lhfs what

The suji/PP slot has been the epitome of lhf since the beginning of this game, besides mena

And PP was on the mena wagon

Pedit: i'll be with you in a minute, almost over

just because you seem to think that penguin's slot is lhf doesn't mean that i would, or that i do, or that pengin would be the person i'm voting there

you're like calling me scummy for not playing the game the way you're claiming i would when it's not the way i would play at all
it's like here you're calling me scum for not voting the person you're calling lhf. like what. that doesn't even make sense

no

i'm calling you scummy for voting lucy, not for not voting pp

[Farkran]

Let's take a break and *PLEASE*

skitter and pooky tell me how lucy is SCUMMY.

Not how she's ridicolous or wrong. Tell me why she is SCUM.

Because you two placed a vote on her for reasons that are indeed ridicolous -and- scummy.

[Farkran]

Bah

I got mad, and i didn't want to get mad.

When you have a chance to answer 2344 please do it

i'm taking a break

[Farkran]

fwiw i also feel like farkran's push of me is agenda-driven in that i feel like he *should* be able to see and understand my pov here but resolutely is not

i also feel like he's imagining what he would do as scum in this circumstance and then calling me for not playing that way almost? idk unless i'm not understanding. but like he has some model in his head of what i'd be doing here but because i'm not playing that way i'm scum

Ok i've calmed down a bit and catching up, i'm still somewhat salty but i refreshed and saw the argument is still going on and i don't want to have 20 more pages to catchup if i come back later

This is a decent explanation of why you would scumread me, but even if i do apologize for my earlier behavior, i still do not see why lucy is scummy, i'm sorry.

Allow me to explain myself better:
- i can see why you think she's *wrong*. This is easy - her case about you pocketing menalque is silly. Note that her case has nothing to do with mine for sring you, they are completely separate and independent.
- i can see why town!you would get mad at lucy. This is also easy and i think it somewhat justifies an impulsive vote on her.

However i cannot yet understand why, assuming you were on a cool head overnight (roughly 8 pages ago now?) how you are still believing that her vote switch was scummy. It just... isn't. It only makes sense if she wants to save menalque too. And you believe with all your might that menalque is town so why would she.

Do you really believe that scum!lucy would put town!mena to e-1 and then switches over onto you? Just tell me if you still believe this is the case.

Anyways, VOTE: pooky. I've made up my mind and his vote is ten times worse than yours given that he wasn't even mad and he didn't make even the slightest attempt at understanding the situation, not when we were arguing about alisae nor now. Is there any interest?

I still believe 1 scum in mena/skit, either one would make sense with scum!pooky, i'm open to vote there if the opportunity arises again

Not interested in voting Chara rn but i see Luca's points. @Chara please change my mind and tell me why pooky is town

[Farkran]

I still believe 1 scum in mena/skit

Well surely if there were exactly one it'd be skitter, no?

Maybe. I still scumread menalque in a vacuum.

Skitter can be *extremely* stubborn when she townreads people, and i know she can be wrong as well. Her take on lucy is still bad but i feel safer on pooky now

[Farkran]

Ok i've calmed down a bit and catching up, i'm still somewhat salty but i refreshed and saw the argument is still going on and i don't want to have 20 more pages to catchup if i come back later

This is a decent explanation of why you would scumread me, but even if i do apologize for my earlier behavior, i still do not see why lucy is scummy, i'm sorry.

Allow me to explain myself better:
- i can see why you think she's *wrong*. This is easy - her case about you pocketing menalque is silly. Note that her case has nothing to do with mine for sring you, they are completely separate and independent.
- i can see why town!you would get mad at lucy. This is also easy and i think it somewhat justifies an impulsive vote on her.

However i cannot yet understand why, assuming you were on a cool head overnight (roughly 8 pages ago now?) how you are still believing that her vote switch was scummy. It just... isn't. It only makes sense if she wants to save menalque too. And you believe with all your might that menalque is town so why would she.

Do you really believe that scum!lucy would put town!mena to e-1 and then switches over onto you? Just tell me if you still believe this is the case.

- i mean i didn't really cool off overnight; i think it's kinda obvious i was still annoyed about it this morning (i.e. what you're citing is around 8 pages ago now)
- i have now cooled off and am willing to admit i may have been annoyed / tunneled (see unvote above)
- her vote on me was awful and i really disliked it, yes
- i still have hard time understanding how she can go from e1 on mena to calling me scum for pocketing him in like a page. i similarly still don't think it makes sense for me as scum to be pocketing or whiteknighting him either when i could just .... let him eat the misflip
- i still think there's scum on the mena wagon
- aside from all of that i still don't fully understand how you're reading me

I accept all of this as a sign of good will

But do you admit that you wking a e-1 town player wouldn't be outside your scumrange? Because i mean, you did it in the past and both me and pops were there, i believe you should understand the situation here

[Farkran]

I accept all of this as a sign of good will

But do you admit that you wking a e-1 town player wouldn't be outside your scumrange? Because i mean, you did it in the past and both me and pops were there, i believe you should understand the situation here

yes i'm trying to be calmer and less annoyed, i'm sorry about earlier

it isn't outside of my scumrange i just don't get *why* i'd do that
like just because i could doesn't mean it would make sense as an actual thing to do

To get credit, because why not

Menalque would never be a threat to you - he had a chance to flip regardless of your defense, but even if he survived the wagon he would hardly scumread you unless something critical happened i.e. cop claim or something

And you'd cry tears of joy with either result, am i not correct? If mena is elimed, that's one town less, if mena remains, it's one more friend in elo for you

I am not saying this MUST be the case, just that it feels weird that you would deny it could, as if it was an impossible stance for scum!skit here

[Farkran]

because i just don't think i make a whole massive thing for town-mena there as scum
idk how to explain better but i don't go out of my way to antognize the people who are pushing him to a misflip

i like, ikd, lightly townread him, call lucy bad or something, but don't kick up a whole fuss and just let it naturally take it's course

i just, idk, don't do what you're saying i would so i have a hard time kinda wrapping my mind around the motivation you're ascribing ot it because that's just not how i think or how i would approach it.

Eh

Having seen your reaction today this makes more sense

Do you really not see ANY chance that mena is scum? Not even the slightest trace of possibility?

Note: question is not loaded, it has do with pooky alignment more than it has to do with you two really

[Farkran]

As much as i hate to admit it, skitter/pooky isn't a real team

Meh. Pooky is only scum if exactly with mena otherwise he's town

[Farkran]

Chara are you scum?

[Farkran]

Also if possibile i'd like a vc up to date

[Farkran]

Chara are you scum?

i'm not, but what's the feeling behind this question?

i know you've wanted my opinion on some things, and i'm sorry i haven't yet put in the time, but i'm also having fun just going at my own pace for right now.

You're top wagon (iirc) and your take on day wasn't cool

Also i'm a bit lost rn, today has been intense

I felt strongly about my scumread of mena, then skit, then i cooled down and now i don't feel it as strong anymore

I still scumread pooky but nowhere near as strong as before and nobody is interested in it anyways

Also if mena is town, that wagon still looked kinda solid and i don't know why scum wasn't making a profit of it, maybe they really didn't want to oppose skit?

That being said, the wagon on skit looked solid too but i feel even less strongly about that now

Comparing the two wagons i think the only difference is PP but i don't scumread him, he was null and is still very null

So, end of the line, i'm reassessing you and i want to find a reason to townread you because i'm getting the feeling that scum was off both wagons

If you could provide detailed insight on the whole situation it would be awesome

[Farkran]

I've been reading the last pages before going to sleep but didn't feel like posting - also i don't want to repeat a monologue catchup so here's my most recent thoughts in a flash

I no longer believe skitter is scum, i believe her when she says she would make *this* amount of fuss to save town!mena and i already explained why they can't be s/s

I am still open to the possibility of scum!mena though, his actions are still as scummy as they were earlier - true he's being lhf-y but that doesn't translate into being town and i don't think he's playing outside his scumrange yet

I think pooky has a significant chance to be scum with or without menalque - in a world where the wagon against mena had at most 1 scum (see below) it makes sense for scum!pooky not to oppose town!skitter regardless of mena alignment - i mean, pooky has been arfing at skitter's feet ever since page 5 or something, it would have been an immense scumtell if he went against her to vote town!mena, and if mena is scum all the better for him

Also still about pooky i can see all his stances being fake throughout the game - i think his case on ali was understandable but the way he went around it to unvote was bad and it fuels my thoughts that his most recent scumread of me/lucy is being more insistent because he's involuntarily forced himself in a position where he can't comfortably vote anyone else without looking scummy now so he just *has* to commit to his current reads regardless

In particular i think he dug himself down a hole when he voted lucy - lucy hasn't been scummy and i believe even skitter came to understand that (correct me if i'm wrong here) yet pooky keeps saying Lucy's votes follow a scumdriven agenda - like, what agenda is scum!lucy following exactly with her vote pattern? I've been asking for an explanation for a billion years but the answer is always the same, "lucy has an agenda" - supported by non-significative absolute wording like obviousz/ridiculous/terrible without backing them up with actual explanations

Again on the topic of my agenda for pushing people based on the possibility of them going down rather than actually scumreading them - either pooky has the memory span of a squirrel or he's forgetting how i refused to vote suji when he was highest wagon, how i defended alisae and ydrasse when i could easily join him against either instead - last but not least when i started a wagon against Day when pooky himself was top wagon (thanks vote log)

That does not necessarily mean i am town ofc but his push against a specific team of me/lucy is absolutely forced, possibly made with the specific purpose of looking good to skitter

[Farkran]

...not really a flash but at least it's not a page full of my posts

[Farkran]

Ftr and tldr i'm still open to vote menalque too but i feel pooky is better

I think it's between those two for me today, other candidates aren't as appealing

[Farkran]

I need to improve my pagetop ratio

[Farkran]

I wish i knew Day's main because he's likely played with me before which could lead to a fair amount of paranoia, but in a meta vacuum i have stopped considering him as plausible scum ever since he actually started playing (some 50 pages ago, i don't recall the post but he produced a well written multipost readlist that i liked a lot), what's the case on him again?

[Farkran]

I believe Day trueclaimed but the claim itself is nai

What's the case against Day?

pedit: i guess i and skitter really see the game under a completely different light

[Farkran]

Like?

Enabler with no primary role to enable. Backup with no primary role to backup.

Like you said, the disloyal is weird on a scum roleblocker, but would somewhat nerf a town rolecop because of the same thought process.

If memory serves i think there are no instances of any of those in the normal archives

[Farkran]

Menalque list looks identical to all skitter's stances throughout the game

and the same goes for pooky

Also i found out Day's main after noticing 2668 and it's pretty easy. It's me. I'm playing from a proxy VN

[Farkran]

That's never a scum role because there's no reason to make a scum roleblocker disloyal because there's never any reason for scum roleblock a partner, meaning that modifier is only ever helpful on a town role

MEANING, a rolecop can essentially confirm me as town if they exist

I mean - that’s the very reason to make a scum roleblocker disloyal.

Hmmm....

This was scummy
I say there's no point for scum to roleblock each other
and he says that's why a mod makes one disloyal - because there's not point - which completely ignores the point of my argument that it's unnecessary complexity

I have never modded a game but i had one in review that i might resume some time in the future and without going into details, it is true that the review group does look at this kind of stuff i.e. the possibility of scum targeting themselves in order to confuse a tracker/watcher town role. The wiki description for the Disloyal modifier clearly states "as if it was roleblocked" meaning they don't even appear as a visitor to the target if i got it correctly

But more importantly, what's the case against Day? The claim is very likely true and completely nai

[Farkran]

Menalque list looks identical to all skitter's stances throughout the game

and the same goes for pooky

Also i found out Day's main after noticing 2668 and it's pretty easy. It's me. I'm playing from a proxy VN

Can we not talk about this here, there's listmods present

They aren't reading any of my posts anyways

[Farkran]

They didn't like my 2418
I think skitter said

it didn't add anything new

and Luca said he thought me tagging along with the Chara suspicions felt performative.

I was in a happy state of mind when I wrote that post, 'd just caught up on everything and found it thoroughly entertaining and just wanted to talk about it, even if I was parroting things that already been said. Pretty sure my reasoning on Chara was original though

I can relate to that wrt your 2418 because that's the general feeling i had about you for quite a long time, but 1108 and subsequent is what made it for me, i mean you were the very first player opposing skitter with good analysis instead of laying low and just leave her be like everyone else was doing

I don't think that's how scum would approach this game, the risk/benefit is not worth it at all and even if you were probably wrong on skitter the analysis was solid and i fail to understand how people do not acknowledge your position in the same way as you are having doubts about the correctness of your play when presented with such divergent takes (i.e. the case on lucy, i am still shocked at how the plist almost literally split in two opposite stances)

Pedit: Luca is there anything else scummy in Day's iso that we're missing in your opinion?

Pedit2: hi ydrasse, how do you feel today?

[Farkran]

My theory was that Day mentioned a crumb in the scum pt and Norwee forgot it wasn’t mentioned in the game

I do think Norwee/Day makes sense regardless

I think you're wrong here, but i'm open to hear your reasoning

Wrt day though i don't think it count as a crumb but that not's the point - scum!day has little reason to fakeclaim that role so it's probably true. Maybe scum!day makes up the disloyal part, but everything else is very likely part of his true role

I don't think this is scum!day though and norwee is still town to me, tell me why i am wrong

[Farkran]

if Mena is scum then i would feel a lot better about Day, but i'm not convinced he is.

Why not though? Sorry if you had already answered me, but probably due to timezones and lengthy catchups i may have missed it

Fairly sure you never answered in detail though, so if you could elaborate this read it would help me understand better your position in this game

Like, as i said a billion pages ago now, i'm a bit paranoid of your townplay because of how you have been townread in our game as scum together - i don't mean it as disrespect, but you do sound like a player who works with gutpings, feelings and real-time interactions rather than isoing, analyzing, etc

I'd like you to translate those pings and interactions for me so that i can place you somewhere in my mind (you're already in my <3 though you know that)

[Farkran]

yeah, that.

also this is the second time Day's had an excuse for why he'd be scumread, but the "i'm purposely playing with a weird tone" is up there for me. why were you doing that? i know you're on a secret alt, but i've thought your tone was weird all game, so again the surprise about being scumread for it is weird to me.

pedit: we can talk about scum Mena i guess. i thought his reaction to yours and Luca's votes was very kneejerk/reactive in a town way.

like i think scum Mena thinks a little more before making the accusation, it looks like he just posted what he was thinking immediately.

i know a part of the case is meta, but nothing else Mena has said has stood out as glaringly manipulative/like he doesn't want to be here to mean. but i'm open to talking about it.

pedit: i usually find the "town player X would be better than this" arguments made just as often about players who are not meeting a standard that isn't actually indicative of their consistent level of play. or, to say it in a way that doesn't sound stupid, it's kind of BoP.
i also wonder if a scum Norwee would not have been so quick to abandon the PoE read on me.

Nvm my last message

Not gonna lie i've been mistaking your avatar for Luca's more than once because of color associations

[Farkran]

Maybe scum!day makes up the disloyal part, but everything else is very likely part of his true role

Not sure about this. If Day really is a scum roleblocker, and it ever comes out that a townie was roleblocked, that's gonna look mighty bad for Day. It would make a lot more sense for a scum roleblocker to just claim regular roleblocker or JK or something like that.

Good point, i haven't thought about that. It does make the claim much bolder but i still believe it's true

Day is town

[Farkran]

she didnt find me scummy because her townreads flipped scum in that game


the point i am making is that farks contention which is that i cant ever go against skitters townread without being scumread for it is complete bullshit.

Fwiw i wouldnt scumread pooky for having opposing reads to me in general
I probably would find it weird if he werent listening to me on mena butidk if i'd call him scum for it

For the sake of argument i will say that this is kinda exactly what you have been doing until now, skit.

You have a habit of scumreading people whose reads don't align with yours. I do too. It's nai, but also kinda unhealthy. Do you recall the game where i played as a hydra with Kerset? With don corleone, not_mafia, etc?

[Farkran]

@Fark you don't think they could just be a scum goon or other unrelated role that felt that was a good fakeclaim? If they're Hectic, he's certainly capable of coming up with that. Or was the townread unrelated to the claim?

I don't think it's hectic? I thought about it, but hectic gimmicks are usually much more... artistic? Also the way he approaches me doesn't sound like hectic. If you're hectic, good job stepping up in your roleplay!

Back to the topic though, the townread predates the claim but i do think the claim reinforces it. Most likely not a goon, it would be a risky claim in a d1 context

[Farkran]

For the sake of argument i will say that this is kinda exactly what you have been doing until now, skit.

You have a habit of scumreading people whose reads don't align with yours. I do too. It's nai, but also kinda unhealthy. Do you recall the game where i played as a hydra with Kerset? With don corleone, not_mafia, etc?

This isnt really what i was saying?

Why do we always have a hard time understanding what the other says?

I think your votes and progression in this game reflect the fact that you tend to scumread people whose reads do not align with yours, and yeah i think you have been complacent to pooky because of that, while opposing my opinions for the same reason. Since it is not the first time i notice this pattern, i think other people might have as well.