Newbie 2059 - Scummer's Baking Championship (Baked Over)

[JacksonVirgo]

Sup batch files, I have returned back to newbie games.

[JacksonVirgo]

I was just heading to sleep for work of course I would be disattached, anyways off to work yay

[JacksonVirgo]

Jackson/ Fizz though.. their entrances feel a little off, just a gut read though, obv I'll want more content and it's not enough for a vote, but I'm already a tad sus there

Why is an early gutping not worthy of a vote?

Jackson entered saying: Sup batch files, I have returned back to newbie games.

Off the bat, this feels distanced, gives off an "I don't care to find maf" attitude, feels very distanced in a way mafia would be.

First of all, my entrance was on the first page. If you expect me to be all hands on and invested into the game at that point, even if I wasn't going to sleep at that point, that's never happening, period.

I disagreed because of my personal gameplay and how I usually try to decipher mafia and etc. I guess you have a good defense on why you did it and etc.

The bunch of 'and etc' seems off, the only way I can explain this would be that it's trying to feel more contentful than it is at face value.

are you partnered with JV? :O

:sweats:

Right, but at the same time, it's unfair to vote for someone on day 1 when there's no evidence from games I've seen on here on who's scum and who's not.

Oh god, you're not advocating a no-elim are you?

Sorry, but I disagree, voting for someone on day one is clueless and it is better not to vote than voting someone out of random with no reasoning. How is it scum to not vote on day one, especially there's no evidence of who's scum?

Games like this one, where there's little town power (relatively) it's better to be proactive as scum and force scum to be reactive than vice versa.

[JacksonVirgo]

2 of yall find it weird to get a gut feeling off of entrances?

Jackson entered saying: Sup batch files, I have returned back to newbie games.

Off the bat, this feels distanced, gives off an "I don't care to find maf" attitude, feels very distanced in a way mafia would be.

Fizz's: Interesting choice of a mafia theme. Glad to be here, learning how to play mafia, along with getting to know you guys and girls too.

This also feels like something maf would say. maf likes to use a lot of words to effectively say nothing but make it look like it matters. "Interesting choice of theme" cause there was talk of the flavor. The rest isn't exactly bad, but the tone of it feels weird.

Then you follow that up with going: Interesting to base off entrances of the introduction on being a little off, not that it has anything to do with the game of course.


Are you trying to say that entrances give nothing? To a mafia entrances are huge. It's their first chance to towntell, first impression, they either completely joke around, or try to act mega serious off their first post. I told you I don't have a die hard scumread right now, but that's my initial impression, I'm letting you know, and seeing how you handle the pressure of me being sus of yall

I never had a problem with your initial impression. In fact I agreed with you on Jackson's first line of thought. I just never pay attention to the beginning until maybe later on; I disagreed because of my personal gameplay and how I usually try to decipher mafia and etc. I guess you have a good defense on why you did it and etc.

Did not mean to submit that one

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Grandpa Mo

i still like fizz, not sure scum fakes this or has this take

i was thinking of switching my vote to grandpa tbh

pedit yeah i'll do that too VOTE: grandpa

I'm swinging this way as well at this point

Sup batch files, I have returned back to newbie games.

pepega SE

Mood

admiration / thanks will be collected in the form of PayPal

thank you!!

Sure! I'll send it to you, just need your account username and password

s of now, Jackson keeps finding a way to coast which is kinda lame because I really want to hear from them so I can perceptualize an actual read on them

You can't actually have this pop into your head, after I've literally explained I was going to work and that I was going to sleep FOR work the night earlier. Your entire perspective is broken

VOTE: GrandpaMo

[JacksonVirgo]

Another thing... No one answered my question which I geninuly am curious to know as it will make much more sense on pairings and stuff.

How many mafia are usually in a 9 player setup?

Check the OP, the game setup is there. It's a 2v7 game (2 mafia, 7 town). A random spot on the bottom three columns are selected, those are the Town PR roles (all other roles are going to be Vanilla Townies) and the Mafia will have the roles at the top of that specific column.

If I butchered this explanation let me know

[JacksonVirgo]

Sad thing is that I never scumread you because you were coasting lmao. I said you kept having excuses (which were genuine) and you had to coast intentional or not intentional. I feel like this is a mafia BW. I am waiting for other takes from other people, to really look at more pairings and interactions with you because you did actually come out with info now.

Did I say that you were scum-reading me for me coasting? No, I didn't. I am saying your perspective is not one that aligns with what I would consider a town mindset.

[JacksonVirgo]

Can you and pooky also give a good reason why you scumread me? Because I feel like Andante was the only one who had a logical reason in the beginning, I don't know if they have been opened to find a pair with me if they do assume I am a mafia. But, can you?

I've given one, rather blatantly if I do say so myself.

[JacksonVirgo]

Sad thing is that I never scumread you because you were coasting lmao. I said you kept having excuses (which were genuine) and you had to coast intentional or not intentional. I feel like this is a mafia BW. I am waiting for other takes from other people, to really look at more pairings and interactions with you because you did actually come out with info now.

Did I say that you were scum-reading me for me coasting? No, I didn't. I am saying your perspective is not one that aligns with what I would consider a town mindset.

Also the typical scum-tell of the 'lmao' has emerged.

[JacksonVirgo]

Another thing... No one answered my question which I geninuly am curious to know as it will make much more sense on pairings and stuff.

How many mafia are usually in a 9 player setup?

Check the OP, the game setup is there. It's a 2v7 game (2 mafia, 7 town). A random spot on the bottom three columns are selected, those are the Town PR roles (all other roles are going to be Vanilla Townies) and the Mafia will have the roles at the top of that specific column.

If I butchered this explanation let me know

I also have slight suspicion this is abusing LAMIST though that may also be confirmation bias so I am not gonna case it just yet

[JacksonVirgo]

Another thing... No one answered my question which I geninuly am curious to know as it will make much more sense on pairings and stuff.

How many mafia are usually in a 9 player setup?

Check the OP, the game setup is there. It's a 2v7 game (2 mafia, 7 town). A random spot on the bottom three columns are selected, those are the Town PR roles (all other roles are going to be Vanilla Townies) and the Mafia will have the roles at the top of that specific column.

If I butchered this explanation let me know

Oh well that changes my perspective on something.

Okay cool. And?

[JacksonVirgo]

Sad thing is that I never scumread you because you were coasting lmao. I said you kept having excuses (which were genuine) and you had to coast intentional or not intentional. I feel like this is a mafia BW. I am waiting for other takes from other people, to really look at more pairings and interactions with you because you did actually come out with info now.

Did I say that you were scum-reading me for me coasting? No, I didn't. I am saying your perspective is not one that aligns with what I would consider a town mindset.

Also the typical scum-tell of the 'lmao' has emerged.

Now I just feel like you are over reaching. I always say lmao,

lmao

It was a semi-joke but the scum-tell is a serious one, and has been documented somewhere on the wiki iirc.

[JacksonVirgo]

Sad thing is that I never scumread you because you were coasting lmao. I said you kept having excuses (which were genuine) and you had to coast intentional or not intentional. I feel like this is a mafia BW. I am waiting for other takes from other people, to really look at more pairings and interactions with you because you did actually come out with info now.

Did I say that you were scum-reading me for me coasting? No, I didn't. I am saying your perspective is not one that aligns with what I would consider a town mindset.

Also the typical scum-tell of the 'lmao' has emerged.

Now I just feel like you are over reaching. I always say lmao,

lmao

It was a semi-joke but the scum-tell is a serious one, and has been documented somewhere on the wiki iirc.

You also said you have blatantly said your scumread on me. Can you please again if you did because you did not and referred me to saying "I have said it multiple times". I expect a reply very soon not something for you to look back and make some random shit as of now.

This is actually manipulative.

And I've said many times that your perspective/mindset is not one I would or ever have considered a townie mindset and this also doubles down as one of my own person strongest scum-tells to look out for. You blatantly sheep another's reads by saying you agree to it, without actually adding any content for yourself, and then you cherry-pick the information to shade me knowing all too well that you knew exactly why I was not active. What you've said to me just now proves that. You aren't town, and I am almost certain

[JacksonVirgo]

I said you kept having excuses (which were genuine) and you had to coast intentional or not intentional.

This specific bit proves you knew where I was, or at least you're changing your stance slightly to not look bad, both of which are scummy and manipulative.

[JacksonVirgo]

You have NOT explained my mindset and perspective on how what I did is actual scum. I do agree that I did sheep some of the reads and that is because I actually townread three people in the beginning two of which scumread me. If you look back... you can see I pointed out the possible "1 mafia out of this pair" type situation. I will be voting you for the time being.

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Oh yesseree I did explain why your mindset is wack, in fact I did so in the exact post you're quoting.

Town Mindset: Solving, trying to actively find scum and/or town.
Scum Mindset: Manipulative, trying to survive, trying to make cases on Town.
You: Cherry-pick information, purposefully ignore information (which you know). Sheep then shade a LHF (at the time).

Which section do you honestly believe that fits. Also what the hell does that pair thing has to do with anything.

[JacksonVirgo]

I said you kept having excuses (which were genuine) and you had to coast intentional or not intentional.

This specific bit proves you knew where I was, or at least you're changing your stance slightly to not look bad, both of which are scummy and manipulative.

How is that manipulative??? I literally meant that because you kept leaving. I genuinely meant that. You did not give ANY info until days later in which were basically sheeps. That is why I was very skeptical towards the end there.

Because you specifically choosing the information to shade me with and omit the actual reason I was not active, which is manipulative as you're obviously manipulating the playing field to make me look as bad as possible. A townie mindset would have accepted that I said I was at work, or sleeping for work and that it's page frickin' 6 yet you ignore all of those things just to say I am coasting.

[JacksonVirgo]

Also do some fact-checking real quick. Check the time of my initial post in AEST, woah it's around 9 holy crap. And check what time I went and checked in again saying I am working. Woah it's 6. Wonder what happened here

[JacksonVirgo]

Once I die and flip town... I hope town realizes there was a scum in this interaction and it wasn't me but you. I am still openminded to other people especially in the POE I had which was Jackson/Fizz Skitter/Pooky. I really want to say there is two mafia there. It depends on who flips town or scum. I am also null on Ahri as well. By the way, what happened GeorgeBailey?

You are acting LAMIST and you're appealing to emotion at the moment, both of which are scum-tells as a way to buff up your arguments against my own.

QUICK QUICK explain why I am scum again quickly so I know you're not checking back on your old post!!!!

I cannot believe you're actually being serious.
Also actually do that last bit

[JacksonVirgo]

I never had a problem with you leaving! Lmao, you are just making yourself look bad here and actually overreaching on this specific quote because you have nothing else to scumread me on and I think that genuinely makes you look scum.

You WERE shading me for it, that's undeniable.

[JacksonVirgo]

Because were you or were you not?? Did you or did you not leave? Yes you did. Hence I said what I said.

I don't have the issue that you said I wasn't posting, my issue is that you were directly manipulating the state to make me look bad.

[JacksonVirgo]

You have NOT explained my mindset and perspective on how what I did is actual scum. I do agree that I did sheep some of the reads and that is because I actually townread three people in the beginning two of which scumread me. If you look back... you can see I pointed out the possible "1 mafia out of this pair" type situation. I will be voting you for the time being.

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Oh yesseree I did explain why your mindset is wack, in fact I did so in the exact post you're quoting.

Town Mindset: Solving, trying to actively find scum and/or town.
Scum Mindset: Manipulative, trying to survive, trying to make cases on Town.
You: Cherry-pick information, purposefully ignore information (which you know). Sheep then shade a LHF (at the time).

Which section do you honestly believe that fits. Also what the hell does that pair thing has to do with anything.

Trying to survive?? I do not care less if I die. I just want town to use my legacy reads. "Trying to make cases on town" Again BS perspective because town can do that as well. You are doing the thing where you are just trying to find info and something like "mindset' which is a very general and broad term which anyone can say someone has a scum or town mindset; hence, why you are making that read as of now. You are scum here.

You know exactly what I mean, scum is deliberately trying to eliminate Town.

You didn't answer my question, you're jumping around it.

[JacksonVirgo]

.I see how Jackson's introduction is actually off lmao. .

I said I agreed with Andante's weird impression on JV on how that may look scum lmao.

Jackson keeps finding a way to coast which is kinda lame because I really want to hear from them so I can perceptualize an actual read on them.

Looking back this looks even worse than I remember. You're not only shading me, you're also blatantly lying.

I will boldly say this as I love to do this when I am town.... I believe there is one mafia between Fizz and Jackson.

LAMIST, also is this not your first game? You said so in your first post.

[JacksonVirgo]

I WILL RIGHT NOW LOL! I literally told you many times that you have brought up ways especially general terms in which ANYONE can and quickly pivot that onto me because you already seen TWO people have that synopsis. You also are over reaching on a quote that never was meant to attack you or anything. You were overdefensive and only mafia gets overdefensive on something like that. You get overdefensive because you have nothing else to attack me on that besides that. You are exposed.

You say you're rushing and cannot answer me, which in extension accepts that I did explain the mindset thing yet here you're denying it.

Also Town can't get defensive when they get attacked for literally having the inability to post? Just stop

[JacksonVirgo]

This is my first forum game lmao. I have played mafia in other communities though as I said previously. This proves that you are taking what I say out of context.

I am just asking as I originally thought you may be an alt, you're the one reaching now.

Back to the mindset thing. I never have lied anything about you, didn't even scum read you nor really focus on you. Just like how I questioned GeorgeBailey's presence, I questioned yours as Andante has said something about your entrance. I followed up with "yea I can see how that can be weird" then proceed to say that I want to hear from you (which I expected for you to do once you get back from whatever doing).

No, my main point was that you were purposefully omitting information to make me look as bad as possible, of which you've confirmed yourself with your wording. Unless you act deceptive as town, you're simply not. Simple as that. Also you lied by saying I keep making excuses, when I made one which, again, you decide to omit the fact I was at work and decide to shade me.

Coasting never aligns with me being manipulative. Not in any way I have tried to be manipulative. I was just game solving from a town mindset and actively searching for different reads because at that time, I did NOT have a distinct scum read and wanted to hear from you and your reaction to Andante and me hence, why I said the thing I said.

You're using my own words as a reverse-attack here, it does not matter if you said you had a SR on me or not, you WERE shading me by omitting stuff how hard is this to understand.

You are also hypocritical to the fact that you as well never answered my question in post 187.

Don't remember this, I'll check back.

Because were you or were you not?? Did you or did you not leave? Yes you did. Hence I said what I said.

This question? Are you serious? You're taking low blows in hopes to up your defence when it's not. To answer the seeming rhetorical question; I did leave, I was at work like I said. Does that mean you can scummily shade me and manipulate the given state and get away with it? Definitely not.

And by manipulate the state, like I've said a thousand times at this point. You specifically choose to omit that fact I was at work, and say I was coasting. You also blatantly exaggerate it to make it seem like I am constantly trying to not post, when it was page 6. Adding to the fact that you were sapping off the fact I was a LHF at the time in hopes to make me look bad.

where you have gotten overdefensive on something such as me calling you out as coasting.

As I said, I am not happy that you just put me in a bad light and I am not accepting the fact that a Town would do that willingly, which again I have proven that it WAS willing.

[JacksonVirgo]

The thing is though is you're continuously spamming this thread, not really allowing people to have their say on the reads they are getting

I don't think this is AI, and I also don't think they're not allowing people to say their reads at all. But even so Town can be toxic like that as well, sometimes it's a personality thing

[JacksonVirgo]

Thank you. I just needed from this day so far not actual like gamesolve reads. I will give you a townread for compliance, no reason to hide info as town...

Are you trying to pocket them into flipping their reads?

[JacksonVirgo]

I have a surface level TR on skitz mainly because their entrance felt ballsy in a sense scum wouldn't try. Also the fact they don't have an issue with switching reads, scum tend to stick to it as to not feel opportunistic.

[JacksonVirgo]

I have a surface level TR on skitz mainly because their entrance felt ballsy in a sense scum wouldn't try. Also the fact they don't have an issue with switching reads, scum tend to stick to it as to not feel opportunistic.

Oh? How was it ballsy?

It just seems overly, hype/exciting in a way that seems too risky for scum to do as it may appear as pockety.

[JacksonVirgo]

Im not going to be able to post until about 4-5 hours from now

[JacksonVirgo]

Scum would act the way Ahri is doing, especially since it's getting Ahri scumread, and sorta pissing some people off? I feel like it's a slight town read there.

I am not saying that you are right and/or wrong, but I think your logic here is flawed. Being scum does not mean that they're skilled and/or have control over their own image as much as you're giving credit here. Scum can easily misplay and/or not have the experience to know what is right and wrong and thus town-reading them for saying something that's gotten them scum-read and pissing people off is flawed logic in and of itself. Even if they're an experienced scum player that's good at what they do, that does not minimise the fact it could be a misplay. Although I do not have any knowledge of how experienced they are so unless you do, I think following this line of logic is flawed.

[JacksonVirgo]

why are you so fixated on me?

I am getting a specific

vibe

from them but I am not sure exactly where I lie with it. They're not addressing the original questions, sure. But I have a feeling that this post is genuine.

[JacksonVirgo]

3 - 20 mins lmao.

I did skim this from earlier but forgot to respond to it. I think this does close one of the cases I had on you as I do think if you do come from sites that use those times that it would make sense in your progression as you think I was lurking as bad. But to clarify, and it's my final clarification, newbie games are generally slower due to being 72000% longer than what you come from (math could be wrong) and life *does* happen and you must excuse that or you're going to fall into reading into stuff that's literally NAI.

[JacksonVirgo]

I would be big sad if skitter was scum.

Good thing she is town this game :3

bad quote smh

I have to agree with you here

[JacksonVirgo]

I would be big sad if skitter was scum.

Good thing she is town this game :3

i woud be very sad if i were scum too! or if you were scum for that matter. so be town plz!

why am i town?

Do you remember that old PYP game where I was tracker(I think). Were you town in that game.

[JacksonVirgo]

Do you remember that old PYP game where I was tracker(I think). Were you town in that game.

To add to this. I had no idea how the setup worked at all, but I was the #1 in the draft.

[JacksonVirgo]

but uh u rlly think if im mafia bussing as my first forum game ;-;

It actually turns out, bussing is a common way newb!scum try and blend in so this doesn't look good for you.

[JacksonVirgo]

I would be big sad if skitter was scum.

Good thing she is town this game :3

bad quote smh

im still so paranoid about this, can anyone tell me if this sounds scum?

If nobody has said this yet, I do think that sounds scummy. I also think they look bad in the following interaction.

Spoiler:

ok who do you want to elim today?

The mafia.

yea me too

Good plan everyone, glad we're still on the same page

~
Pooky i think u can be aligned with andante fwiw

I am aligned with the town :3

[JacksonVirgo]

no I said if 1 was town the other was for sure going to be maf, but I don't fully remember what I said in that situation, I know GM has gotten a lot of heat this game, GM hasn't responded in a way I think scum would respond, but that's about as far as I am on those right now

Sorry if I am understanding wrong, but you're responding to the fact you're being called out for not pushing in a 1v1 read that you're confident in by saying it's likely 1v1 (or both scum) and you think one is townie.

[JacksonVirgo]

lurking isn't a really good sign

Okay, I am starting to think our definitions are different.

Lurking -> reading the thread but choosing not to post in it for [X] reason. (which I should also clarify isn't AI by itself if someone does lurk).

[JacksonVirgo]

i have the most non moderated page tops B)

Perfect post to say it too aha

[JacksonVirgo]

Meanwhile Glory is off in their own little world.

[JacksonVirgo]

WATCH OUT!!!!

[JacksonVirgo]

Add me to thy pagetop table batch files!

[JacksonVirgo]

Are you ever going to actually try or just pointlessly shade people

[JacksonVirgo]

but it really feels like JV has just decided to tunnel GM.

I don't like self-meta really but that's generally what happens with me. I generally tend to hard-tunnel a player and don't consider elsewhere so that's why after I nice sleep after that interaction with Grandpa I decided to broaden my reads.

[JacksonVirgo]

I think it'd be better to get a fresh outlook by you catching up without one than be tainted possibly by one.

[JacksonVirgo]

Do you remember that old PYP game where I was tracker(I think). Were you town in that game.

To add to this. I had no idea how the setup worked at all, but I was the #1 in the draft.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=83030

This one? Was town!

Just realised I skimmed this before while at work and forgot to come back to this. The original quote 324 you said "Why am I town?" and that gave me instant flashbacks to that PYP game, and I am not entirely sure if it's something that's NAI or something I should be following up but I do think that makes my TR on you stronger.

Is that something that you would say as scum?

[JacksonVirgo]

Grandpa being a lot more calmer with his gameplay

Thanks for this fam, I now has a question for Grandpamo.
Is there a reason you now have a complete tonal shift?

[JacksonVirgo]

Whoops I was gonna have that on a wallpost. Pretend that was after this

--

I said I wanted more time with yall, let more flips/whatnot happen, cause I have reasons I TR you both

Is this both me and grandpamo or speaking of other people?

, pooky is def a pr/maf skitter feels off

Why are you even PR hunting? Stop right now

I have a reason to tr you and jackson

Ignore top question

[JacksonVirgo]

Grandpa, do a quick solid for me.

Where do I stand in your reads. You keep saying I have gotten townier etc etc but then you still SR me but less than Pooky yes?

[JacksonVirgo]

Replying to Andante's wallpost in 487. My responses in

Bolded Red

Spoiler:

sorry this is so long...

JacksonVirgo: 43 ISO posts, LOTS of quotes and responding to quotes.

Is this a problem? You're making it out that it is

2 people vote Grandpa, and Jackson goes “I’m swinging this way as well at this point” - #162 with no interactions directed at Grandpa before that, then in #162 Jackson votes Grandpa after yelling that they were gonna sleep/go to work?? I do believe Jackson was genuinely mad, but like, it’s weird. #167 Jackson says “I am saying your perspective is not one that aligns with what I would consider a town mindset.” But all Jackson has really SAID about/to grandpa was explained the setup, and got mad at GM cause Jackson said they were gonna go to bed/work, yet assumes they have to stick around and talk to GM??
You are aware you can just walk away and resume whenever right??

Depending on how busy my life is at the time, I sometimes can't get super into a game until later which leads to me reading but not posting, which happened until Grandpa heavy-duty caught my radar. You're also taking my words out of context here. Grandpa was omitting information that was making me look bad, of which I wasn't going to accept so of course I attacked back. I explained many times about the mindset thing so why are you choosing to ignore that. I do not like leaving stones unturned when I play, get used to my playstyle or yeet me.

~~ I see why yall wanted me to react to this exchange earlier lmao ~~
Just reading this, Jackson feels mad/annoyed at GM for the questions. GM asked for a reason for a read, and in #168 you go “I’ve given one, rather blatantly if I do say so myself” then in #169 JV scumreads GM for saying lmao.
Like, I could see this as town conf biased Grandpa is scum, but it really feels like JV has just decided to tunnel GM.
In #179, I find this really interesting, JV calls GM manipulative, then talks about GM sheeping another’s read without adding to it, then picking info to make JV look bad. I haven’t ISOd GM yet, but this reaction to GM wondering the reason JV SRs them? The #179 paragraph is just a very generic thing, it’s not even like “you said this here, and changed the context here” Town or Maf, Jackson feels like they aren’t even going to consider a Grandpa town world, which makes me lean JV scum, but I’ll keep reading.
#180 Jackson still seems mad about being “expected to be there when they previously said they wouldn’t be” like, this type of anger isn’t alignment indicative, but I do kinda SR the fact JV has so many posts about it, when you could literally just walk away any moment and return later, and no one will care.

I was very frustrated with having to deal with what Grandpa was doing, yes. Your response to my 169 is weak and seems overly shady, tbh it's not even a response it's just reiterating what was done with no input of your own. Repeating again, me deadass tunneling a player without looking elsewhere is a bad habit of mine, even if I am right I am trying not to do so. Again, you're attacking something that's just my
playstyle, so stop.

#183 JV explains a town vs scum mindset, and I’ll add, a town mindset would be trying to find maf/acknowledging your read might not be right, cause JV has just been tunneling Grandpa, granted GM is probably the only one speaking right now, but posts like this kinda just reaffirm that your only goal is to tunnel GM, I kinda agree with GM’s #181 JV hasn’t explained the GM specific things, just keeps talking in general terms.
#186 JV is still yelling about being in the forum longer than they wanted?
Again, you are more than welcome to walk away whenever, we have 7 IRL days for d2/3/4
JV asking GM about maf experience… as if that will change anything about this little situation… I’m trying to not make a super long post here lol I know yall aren’t gonna want to read this
#227 FINALLY a post not to GM, JV responds to Fizz about spamming the thread, which in my opinion is a really weird post to respond to lol especially going “I don’t think this is AI” like, I think in that content, it definitely pointed more to JV scum GM town, like, also based on what I remember people saying, others agreed with that, and I really see it.
#229 “I have a surface level TR on skitz because their entrance” this comment feels really out there. Just had this huge exchange with GM about how you need reasons.. also in #160 basically told me reading entrances was bad, but if JV does it, it’s ok!!

Acknowledging a read may/may not be right is a personality thing and/or confidence thing so I disagree with you. 186 you're completely misrepresenting/misunderstanding there. I am proving that I was not just bullshitting my way out of posting like Grandpa was making out I was doing. And I am ALLOWED to ask people for experience, I was trying to fucking gauge them. Now I'm lowkey getting mad. I do not care if any of my posts are "out there", I've explained what I did and I am not going to again.

****
#298 makes a point to go back to skitter about the entrance? This exchange with the 2 feels really weird. I was a tad sus of skit before, and this makes it feel like “I need to force an interaction with my partner” it’s so significant, I’ll actually quote it below.

I have a surface level TR on skitz mainly because their entrance felt ballsy in a sense scum wouldn't try. Also the fact they don't have an issue with switching reads, scum tend to stick to it as to not feel opportunistic.

Oh? How was it ballsy?

It just seems overly, hype/exciting in a way that seems too risky for scum to do as it may appear as pockety.

*****
#412 is another post just speaking in general, and not really directed at anyone “scum would do this…”
#413 – JV knows I’m town likely from TMI but I’ll take a tr right now
#423- I mean, if you ISO Glory, Glory’s lines are fine, definitely not bad.

You're making associative reads before any flips happen, which is generally bad practice as you're >rand wrong when you do that. Just stick to singular reads and go from flips, trust me on that one. I hate the fact you're shading me for 413 which is legitimately LAMIST, and I no longer town-lean you. It's actually quite funny how big your contradiction here is though, you said a town mindset is knowing your reads may not be right, but here you are fairly certain on me/skitter being scum (more specifically me here) and yeah, according to your very own logic you are scum. Congrats fam

[JacksonVirgo]

I accidentally opened up the inspect menu and deleted the entire body tag when doing that one so I had to redo some of that one, lucky it saved almost at the end though so phew

[JacksonVirgo]

I've put the 2nd most effort into this game, Grandpa the most, and I do not believe this skitter/wheme sr comes from a town pov

effort =/ town

effort =/ town

effort definitely equals town when this game is dead af.

No it does not, and you know it's not.

[JacksonVirgo]

Also Wheme looks pretty decent at this current moment imo. 552 I like a lot and it's something I would have said if they didn't

[JacksonVirgo]

Awaiting grandpa answering my question before I change votes though.

[JacksonVirgo]

Spoiler: Mega Wallpost

Did it work?

[JacksonVirgo]

Grandpa didn't really answer my question the way I had hoped. So I wouldn't mind a flip on either them or Andante.

[JacksonVirgo]

Reading back a little as I think I may have been a tad biased and didn't respond to everything

[JacksonVirgo]

i actually was going to answer that later when i looked back giving the tldr of wheemie (also cuz i witnessed it too) but basically i realized that like tonality/style is much nai on forum mafia lol and also i just got lazy to just keep doing it every single time. so it is whatever i right. like earlier, i gave my more formal tone but this one it is semi formal. it just happen to be that it doesn't matter for me anymore. ik long response for an expected 1 answer thing but oh well

You were going to answer why you had a tonal shift prior to being called out? And you're also saying someone who is generally aggressive, backs down (hypothetical, not aimed at anyone) that would not be scummy?

And imo you once had a very retaliatory tone and now it's generally extremely passive and I am not entirely sure what to make of it.

[JacksonVirgo]

Grandpa, do a quick solid for me.

Where do I stand in your reads. You keep saying I have gotten townier etc etc but then you still SR me but less than Pooky yes?

yes so basically my parings WERE originally skitter/pooky and fizz/jv i believe if i recall correctly. i was basically saying how there was 1 mafia at that time. afte rour interaction,i realized that hey it could just now be switched up optimally to pooky/jv and skitter/fizz. and scumteam could just be both pooky and jv. but then later on the days, you acted more towny in response to our second very little interaction as well ur response to other ppl including rn to andante's iso reads on you and i realizezd that pooky was way more genearlly scum than you. yes they have contributed but they seemed to sheep what skitter says, not giv any really other good reads other than on me and u (thinking we are alligned) and just overall lack of contribtuion. pooky's early game was good tho, but then later after me and jv's interaction died down, you jv just started acting townier (and that may have been because we werent tunneling each other and now i was finally seeing ur other reads open up etc.)

so if i am basically looking at pooky/jv... i thought pooky was more scum in that pair.

Alright thanks for the clarification

[JacksonVirgo]

so im assuming u hopping on the andante wagon too? man idk, i dont wanna feel pressured. im scared that andanate actually flips scum but like am i really the only one who townreads them???

I'm still quite back and forth between you and them, I wouldn't mind either way tbch. It seems Andante seems to be the way things are flipping, I'm probably going to have to ISO dive you both (I hate doin' them D: )

[JacksonVirgo]

if everyone is deadset on me, can we just end today? you literally know I'm flipping town, and tomorrow look in Wheme/Jackson/Skitter

I do not care if you look super town to yourself, you're simply not to anyone else except Grandpa apparently. The quicker you cut out your cockiness the easier it will be to solve you.

[JacksonVirgo]

lmaooo ready for my unpopular take which I'm pretty certain on. Wheme is maf, like, sure get me today, get Wheme tomorrow and final is in skitter/Jackson. I'm not saying this just cause like "omg they're voting me" no it's like, a pretty dead certain read. Wheme feels identical to 2057, and skitter is very different.

I THINK my town game and scum game are kind of similar but who knows I can't really self meta.
REGARDLESS of that I just replaced in and haev like 3 posts and im not caught up. do you expect to know how I have been playing this game?

Well exactly, you came in, and I'm the first person you decide to go "I'll be voting andante" like, you couldn't have possibly caught up, and came out with me being scummiest

On the surface level, I am thinking this is actually a good point. Further than that I will have to look at their entrance to see if it's valid

[JacksonVirgo]

so im assuming u hopping on the andante wagon too? man idk, i dont wanna feel pressured. im scared that andanate actually flips scum but like am i really the only one who townreads them???

I'm still quite back and forth between you and them, I wouldn't mind either way tbch. It seems Andante seems to be the way things are flipping, I'm probably going to have to ISO dive you both (I hate doin' them D: )

Funny how I think Grandpa is also town. Why ate you not looking at literally anyone but me/grandpa? you seems convinced the vote has to stay in us

Because my SRs are you both, I do not have reads stronger than you both.

[JacksonVirgo]

So you think me and Grandpa are scum. The only 2 even posting and trying to find maf. Pooky is straight up meming, Ahri isn't doing anything, Wheme is all "I just joined idk" like, that can only be an excuse for so long, and especially when you say you're sus or gonna vote me... (i don't remember the exact line) like, excuse me?? you keep saying you just joined and have to catch up, yet I'm #1 sr??? whatever

I do not think you both are, at least I am not making any associative read before flips. I am just saying that I want to flip scum, and I think it's more likely to flip them if we elim within you both. ngl Pooky has slid right under my brain for a small bit so I'll have to keep my eye on them.

[JacksonVirgo]

Votecount 1-11

With 9 players alive, it will take 5 votes to eliminate.

GrandpaMo (1): JacksonVirgo
Ahri (1): Andante
Andante (3): skitter30, Ahri, PookyTheMagicalBear
Hand of Glory (1): Hand of Glory

Not Voting (3): Fizz Raab, GeorgeBailey, GrandpaMo

The deadline for day one is set at (expired on 2021-03-31 00:59:36)

Mod Note: I have no life's work better spent than sniping pagetops.

Skitter is V/LA until the heat death of the universe (Monday)

Just from this VC, I am not sure if any other votes happened, but Andante is at E-2. I doubt a Grandpa wagon will happen at this point sadly. What's giving me pause for voting Andante is simply the two last players on the wagon.

[JacksonVirgo]

We probably need a claim around 24 hours before EoD

[JacksonVirgo]

So you think me and Grandpa are scum. The only 2 even posting and trying to find maf. Pooky is straight up meming, Ahri isn't doing anything, Wheme is all "I just joined idk" like, that can only be an excuse for so long, and especially when you say you're sus or gonna vote me... (i don't remember the exact line) like, excuse me?? you keep saying you just joined and have to catch up, yet I'm #1 sr??? whatever

I do not think you both are, at least I am not making any associative read before flips. I am just saying that I want to flip scum, and I think it's more likely to flip them if we elim within you both. ngl Pooky has slid right under my brain for a small bit so I'll have to keep my eye on them.

so here is where you set up to get one of us and go "well the other is for sure scum!!!" like, this is literally setting up now.. not making a read before the flip? there's literally nothing confirming a scum in me and grandpa, we're just the only 2 talking.

If that's the way it goes, sure but by the time D2 comes we'll have two flips and possible info so I play by each day and see where it lands. I never said there was definitely scum between the two of you, I am saying I am as confident that there is as I can possibly get on D1.

pedit: I never said I wanted you to claim, I said we needed a claim before 24 hours. Stop overreacting, or you will likely end up being the flip today. You're attacking me for pushing you over Grandpa when I am doing the exact opposite.

[JacksonVirgo]

I wanna flip Jackson today

Case me

[JacksonVirgo]

no, you're setting it up for grandpa to flip town then you'll go at me. you're trying to waste these elims on people actually advancing the game, so that you can have the situation where maf has to get elim'd or town loses, and in that situation, you're taking ahri, wheme, hand, pooky...

What do you expect me to do. Not push my Scum-Reads?

[JacksonVirgo]

Nice chat

[JacksonVirgo]

Mine

Hmmmm

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

You vote me right after saying you didnt like Fizz's post and explain none of it

[JacksonVirgo]

*reading my iso*
*every single post fixated on Andante*

anyways I'm 90% sure Andante is flipping red here, given this main reason:

he's not scumhunting, but rather looking for the "easiest" or "best" elimination. what i mean by that is that he is prodding to see if people will vote me for having no content, he's voting jackson bc he's in a hotspot, and constantly asking "hm can i push this person?"

thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

back to lurking.

This feels realy self-conscious

[JacksonVirgo]

Im out so Ill post more in depth when I get to my computer

[JacksonVirgo]

Welcome back!

[JacksonVirgo]

@skitter, why do you town-read grandpa again?

I feel like, even recently, they've been out there to defend themselves weirdly even recently. For example, they said they were going to say something about their own tonal shift? Unless I misread that's wack.

[JacksonVirgo]

fwiw its just nai. and yea i was, i didnt wanna say anything because i thought the convo would be irrelevant hence why i said its nai. its the specific context of what u say in those reads matter. i just was getting scumread and i was taking my time wit my tone to appear towny as possibly as town but i realized ppl get townread when they have a memish tone for example. so whats the point? yk?

This post in particular, is literally admitting to having a forced tone and all too knowledgeable of the way they are posting in a way that I rarely see in Town. From memory, I do not think they've even attempted to debunk the fact they purposefully omitted information to make me look bad, if so I would like that to be brought to my attention. They've had a complete tone shift on me, even though they still scum-read me and they've been acting extremely pocketish towards when I started backing off from the death-tunnel (not backing off from scum-reading them, I should add). I feel they're not genuine at all with a combination of purposeful manipulation and self-aware of how they're posting.

Although, mind if you explain as to why you feel they're posting genuinely. Also I think progressing the game doesn't mean too much, especially early game where I find, as scum, it's easier to blend in as we don't have that much solid information to go off.

[JacksonVirgo]

Is that something that you would say as scum?

I have, yes

Alright I'll throw that particular tell out the window then

[JacksonVirgo]

I mean but what scum admits faking tone tho?
Also i think scum tend to just allow the stagnation continue without trying to do anything abt it

They seem to be actively trying to pocket me/others and stay on the passive instead of just outright trying to counter my attacks as their aggressive strikes have flopped hard before.

At the moment, I feel they saw me as easy LHF from the start of the game due to how I wasn't posting (and them being used to smaller game sizes), they decide to shade me to try and get my view in the town downgraded. I respond with an instant attack on their shade with my aggressivish playstyle which they don't expect, so they start trying to figure out a way out of what I called them out on (being manipulative, omitting information, general LAMIST behaviour) but can't so they semi-admit it's the truth so they are semi-forced to back out as much as possible without looking bad so they have me at a FoS/SL and focus on Pooky and when I call them out again they don't want to be stuck in an impasse so they go with what I say to try and get me to back out.

[JacksonVirgo]

I mean sure they sort of bit off more than they can chew in pushing you and tried to back off, but i'm not sure that makes them scum

Also not sure they're trying to pocket people, or that they pushed you for being lhf

The way I interpreted the initial shade was exactly shading me since I was LHF. Regarding pocketing, mind reading back on the tonal shift when addressing me and tell me your thoughts on that?

[JacksonVirgo]

I

mean sure they sort of bit off more than they can chew in pushing you and tried to back off

, but i'm not sure that makes them scum

Like why is this more likely to come from scum than town

Also, what do u think of andante?

Because I don't see town!them outright manipulating people in our initial interaction and then have a complete tonal shift once they've realised they're losing grip. It's not only them just choosing to not interact with me, they've completely yeeted the way they treated their read on me that's not in the way of just evaluating elsewhere. Their wording and their tone just don't align with a genuine town making reads, and being heavily called out

for

said reads.

Andante I originally gut-pinned them as Town, but over time their posting has degraded that to a SR. Grandpa is by far my stronger scum-read, but them followed by Pooky. Andante is contradicting their own defined town-mindset as well as taking my own words out of context against me, instant OMGUS towards me even though I was not even pushing hard for their elim

I would much prefer a Grandpa elimination over an Andante one, but I wouldn't mind either way but I am getting a little pause from Andante as a few of their posts hit me different in a tone type of way, such as getting super heated when feeling they're being sole targeted and just breaking down in a way. Actually, thinking about it now, who did Grandpa say that they thought were getting bussed if they flip scum?

[JacksonVirgo]

ommitting info does not equal tone. i said everything i had to say back then and still agree to it.

I didn't say they were the same thing

[JacksonVirgo]

My only thing is, JV and everything he keeps saying, he KNOWS im flipping town.... and everything he says about me is literally covering his tracks.

Seriously getting sick of your pointless shade towards me like this.

[JacksonVirgo]

I townread a lot of people

Quick tldr?

You grandpa pooky fitz ahri hog

you don't tr jackson, so vote jackson?

idk how you tr ahri. I'd LOVE to know more on the ahri read

I am voting Jackson

Have you caught up yet

[JacksonVirgo]

i wanted grandpa but im willing to compromise

Why are you not voting there then

[JacksonVirgo]

Alright I have skimmed on mobile and have come to the conclusion that I think Andante and Grandpa are both scum together. Gramps refusing to vote there as they said andante was getting bussed. Its a tinfoil so not going further without a flip but I am posting this to ser if I nailed both scum D1 in a newbie game again.

[JacksonVirgo]

Will post thoughts when on my computer

[JacksonVirgo]

Wait I just read the actual content of what you said. You think I am scum because I am refusing to vote Andante? What? That is some wack BS LOL. I thought you were more of you think I am scum because I seem paired by defending. I think if you stayed on that logic that would have been better. I am not voting andante because they are my townread. I am voting my scumread. You or Pooky.

No that's not what I said.

I think you're scum for reasons I've been saying all D1. I think that if one of you do both flip scum and I am right that would be some legendary reading on my behalf. Hol' on let me get that game I am referring to

[JacksonVirgo]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=82380
That game was the most amazing town game I've ever had, in a newbie game anyway.

[JacksonVirgo]

Hmm, reading back I see how you thought I meant that. But in reality I was just hyped that I really want that to be the case and that it does make sense logically for you to be paired.

[JacksonVirgo]

I obviously want Grandpa eliminated but that's likely not happening so I'm gonna vote Andante. This is now E-1 and we now need a claim. That and don't want Andante around with their constant PR fishing, which is gonna break us.

VOTE: Andante

[JacksonVirgo]

Also dudes!!!

Mini and myself finally got accepted for a house today and I am so hyped ahaha

[JacksonVirgo]

Whatever you say

[JacksonVirgo]

@skitter or @anyone, if you're willing to wagon Grandpa let me know but aorn I see not many people willing and it's so close to EoD

[JacksonVirgo]

Actually, Grandpa give these games a read.

Town Games
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=84671
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84723

Scum Games
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=85295
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=85067

And if you actually read them you can probably see how hard it is for me to fake my own town-meta and you can gauge from that as well. If you *are* town here tunneling me that should help a tad. And if you're scum it shouldn't matter as you're set on wanting me dead as I'm a threat to you.

[JacksonVirgo]

lol honestly i expected a way aggresive reaction. but i actually liked this rxn. obviously my thing was sarcastic but ig my vote is going to stay since no one is going to vote pooky smh. not even their own mafia partner like u can bus.

I'm done pushing you right now as it's only making me heated and it's going to make me make a bad decision. I would like to keep a level head, I also gave you some reading material I want you to try and read if you can. This is both to try and (if you're town) to see if you're tunneling for reasons that are town!ai for me. Also I am going to gauge your response to see if I am tunneling town here.

[JacksonVirgo]

As it stands right now, I feel you're desperately pushing me as it's your only shot as you tried pushing elsewhere and being all nice to me but it didn't flip my read on you and thus you need to go on the attack once again.

[JacksonVirgo]

If you need more games, check my sig

[JacksonVirgo]

F

[JacksonVirgo]

Rawr

[JacksonVirgo]

deadline is locked and will be reset to two days.

Sounds good to me

VOTE: Grandpa

[JacksonVirgo]

Actually, Grandpa give these games a read.

Town Games
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=84671
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84723

Scum Games
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=85295
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=85067

And if you actually read them you can probably see how hard it is for me to fake my own town-meta and you can gauge from that as well. If you *are* town here tunneling me that should help a tad. And if you're scum it shouldn't matter as you're set on wanting me dead as I'm a threat to you.

did u see that post where i referenced ur old game ;-; i even townread u using meta read. i rlly dont want to tunnel u JV. im like rlly flip flopping between u and pooky. beleving there is scum between but like i said rest of town isnt gonna budge any longer and we are close to eod, vote is between u for some fucking reason and andante. i townread andante so auto vote u, yk what im saying? i dont wanna split because its bad and u probably wanted to vote me as well but voting andante because "u are pressured to"

Did I miss the post? Mind linking it please.

[JacksonVirgo]

Actually, Grandpa give these games a read.

Town Games
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=84671
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84723

Scum Games
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=85295
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=85067

And if you actually read them you can probably see how hard it is for me to fake my own town-meta and you can gauge from that as well. If you *are* town here tunneling me that should help a tad. And if you're scum it shouldn't matter as you're set on wanting me dead as I'm a threat to you.

did u see that post where i referenced ur old game ;-; i even townread u using meta read. i rlly dont want to tunnel u JV. im like rlly flip flopping between u and pooky. beleving there is scum between but like i said rest of town isnt gonna budge any longer and we are close to eod, vote is between u for some fucking reason and andante. i townread andante so auto vote u, yk what im saying? i dont wanna split because its bad and u probably wanted to vote me as well but voting andante because "u are pressured to"

Did I miss the post? Mind linking it please.

ah wait... i was thinking bout the post on pooky. i can deep analyze and iso you and make a whole post about you in terms of where i saw you scum and saw you town later . i think thats why i started to townread you more because i did actually try to get meta reads... i might have said something in a post i really forgot but i said how you were acting different as scum where you were usuallhy memish and stuff. but dw i will give you a whole analytical post asap

Oh okay? If you're talking about reading through my old games yeah that's good. Make a comparison with each or whatnot I am actually curious what you'll make of it.

[JacksonVirgo]

Yeah that's fair, that's just my four most recent games

[JacksonVirgo]

We can hammer, but the deadline is extended and the night will likely be extended to suit replacements or whatnot.

[JacksonVirgo]

Wheme, set this straight. What are your current reads I do not remember you specifically saying. Just I am assuming myself and andante are your SRs

[JacksonVirgo]

Spoiler:

Wait I just read the actual content of what you said. You think I am scum because I am refusing to vote Andante? What? That is some wack BS LOL. I thought you were more of you think I am scum because I seem paired by defending. I think if you stayed on that logic that would have been better. I am not voting andante because they are my townread. I am voting my scumread. You or Pooky.

No that's not what I said.

I think you're scum for reasons I've been saying all D1. I think that if one of you do both flip scum and I am right that would be some legendary reading on my behalf. Hol' on let me get that game I am referring to

Well sorry to tell you this bud. You're wrong! You're outted confirmed scum for this!

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Whatever you say

lol honestly i expected a way aggresive reaction. but i actually liked this rxn. obviously my thing was sarcastic but ig my vote is going to stay since no one is going to vote pooky smh. not even their own mafia partner like u can bus.

@skitter or @anyone, if you're willing to wagon Grandpa let me know but aorn I see not many people willing and it's so close to EoD

thats a scummy thing to say... what >-<

deadline is locked and will be reset to two days.

Sounds good to me

VOTE: Grandpa

LOL ok ok there you goooo.

VOTE: PookyTheMagicalBear

@Skitter, mind adding your thoughts on this before I say anything about it.

[JacksonVirgo]

Also imagine a world where Grandpa, myself, andante and skitter are all town and this is a royal laugh for the scum.

[JacksonVirgo]

I think gm's 676 is incredibly townie tbh

I keep forgetting to give that a read

[JacksonVirgo]

Whoooooooo!
(I didn't know you two were together!)

Yeah
It took a small while to get accepted aha, it's exciting and terrifying at the same time.

[JacksonVirgo]

@Skitter, mind adding your thoughts on this before I say anything about it.

I think once he realized the deadline was longer he was willing to switch votes ?

Except that wasn't it at all I believe. It was that they voted me simply because they wanted a wagon that wasn't Andante. Could be remembering wrong as well

[JacksonVirgo]

Responses in

Bolded Pink

Spoiler:

You've had like 12 top scumreads

i disagree. he thought there was a scum was between me and jv. and pushed ahri as another propsoing 2 scum. only read changed when wheme came in and acted scummy which 3 ppl have said which i started then andante said something then jv did.

He was also calling me and pooky scum and within you and jv and also ahri

And i dont think his progressions on any of these has been good

Why do u townread him

Okay so let me explain... these reactions and interaction in my opinion are doubtful to be mafia.

You have to step back and look at the bigger picture and think about on why and how Andante is reacting like the way he is. Does he do this as scum? If he was town, what would his town reaction be? Is there any bias? And etc. Questions that can help guide alignment issues toward the general overview.

Conceptual Context

As seen in my analysis of Pooky, it was so certain to Pooky that Andante was towny. And now just these interactions make it seem that Andante could flip town. Andante pushes Ahri for the lack of contribution, you come out and defend. Then HoG does some weird shit in the back. Both you and Ahri go hard at it against Andante. JV joins some time later. Pooky happens to sheep your vote. Wheme comes and finds a 'scummy' thing of Andante.

So you're saying that Pooky town-treading Andante is indicative of them being Town or that their interactions and what they said specifically is town!AI.

These events led it to the synopsis of how two the mafia or atleast 1 (and the other is focused on someone else) is definitely on the push of Andante. This aggression comes out of no where as soon as Andante starts getting annoyed. By game mechanics, there is less than 25% chance this could be a bus and this is based on a personal probability chance of how there is more likely to flip town with more members of this village pushing them.

So are you saying the wagon has scum on it, or the push of the wagon. For example, I am on the push but not the wagon. And I am not asking if your SR is on the push/wagon, I am asking if you think scum in general would be pushing it even if you are wrong on your SR's on me/pooky for example. Also can I ask how you came to the conclusion it's >75% chance that it's not a bus? I ask this because you say that it's by game mechanics so you would have put thought into this if it's an actual calculation of sorts.

They flip town. What happens next? There is 3 different theories you could play out if and only if they flip town. 1) Whole rest of the second day focused on night kill and day 1 information; game doesn't move that much 2) Game moves but only to a certain point if there is new info with night kill or any PR info is outted. 3) Game moves on completely focusing on the future in more hypotheticals. Number 2 is the most probable to happen as PRs are most likely to be gotten new info and night kill will tell us info on who might or might not have done that.

I don't want to and am going to actively refuse to do anything with game plans, as that benefits scum as they can choose the NK that best forces their agenda into play. Although you say the game won't advance that much on a town flip, what town flip (assuming we elim a town today) would in your honest opinion and why would that change more than a town flip on Andante. It's day 1, we're not going to get any solid information unless we flip a scum.

They flip scum. What happens next? There is 4 different theories you could play out if and only if they flip scum. 1) Scumread me because I was the hardest defender. 2) Scumread HoG because of their lack of contribution and attention to Andante (inactive) 3) Scumread Pooky for defending them until an influence of vote happened. 4) Theorize an 'elaborate' bus could have happened. From your perspective 1 and 4 seem the most probable. 3 coincides with 4 as we got pooky voting Andante now.

I don't want to and am going to actively refuse to do anything with game plans, as that benefits scum as they can choose the NK that best forces their agenda into play. Although you say the game won't advance that much on a town flip, what town flip (assuming we elim a town today) would in your honest opinion and why would that change more than a town flip on Andante. It's day 1, we're not going to get any solid information unless we flip a scum.

Now you answer me, playing that scenario if the flip scum, who is their Mafia partner? That will be hard to tell. I know I am town and honestly I wouldn't know as I would instantly jump into that conclusion of theory 2 and 4. I doubt game will progress. I guess it will be an "info vote" but there are far better votes than someone who has contributed and tried answering questions while some haven't and deflected on others. Lack of contribution from Ahri, Pooky, HoG, and Wheme. The only reason I am really not keen on voting JV is because the level of contribution. Me, Skitter, and JV all have been contributing and right now being it day one, I like to find that in a more later state of mind where we solved scum between the more people who haven't said anything. Even if they are town, they are lacking actual town members like us any town.

If they flip scum, their partner could theoretically be anyone and it's hard to make any decisions pre-flip and pre-analysis of said flip so nobody can honestly answer this question with confidence but if anyone it would be you who is seemingly pushing an agenda of them getting bussed earlier and you hard-pushing against them. That on it's own is not indicative but that in addition to my read already on you that would be my push. Can you see why that seems like an agenda from my pov though, honest question.

[JacksonVirgo]

Stolen

[JacksonVirgo]

Stolen

[JacksonVirgo]

Stolen

[JacksonVirgo]

Stolen

[JacksonVirgo]

The

[JacksonVirgo]

Bruh

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't want to re-quote that post but I am referring to 735 and Grandpa's response. I am going to label each one though dw.

Spoiler: 1

You're seemingly using associations prior to getting any flips/information on any alignments which almost always ends bad.

Spoiler: 2

The fact that they're the ones being top-wagoned can mean many things that I am going to try and explain soon, I do think that's a general read on why you can town-read them simply based on them having no resistance, it's actually what's making me want you dead more than them when earlier I was fine with both tbh

If we do say that 4/9 are against a wagon and 5/9 are for the wagon. There is only a 11% greater chance (in a vacuum) that scum are trying to wagon them (again in a vacuum), which is not that much difference.

If I include Andante as against a wagon:

Chance of scum on wagon is 5/9 which is 55%
Chance of scum off wagon is 4/9 which is 44%
Chance of both scum on wagon is ((5/9) * (5/9)) which is a 30% chance.
Chance of both scum off wagon is ((4/9) * (4/9)) which is a 19% chance.
Chance of each scum on either is (100% - 30% - 19%) which is a 51% chance.

Again this is in a vacuum, so this is completely ignoring subjective reads and possible agenda's etc so this data is not something we should be following but it's something I would like to counter your math with.

Spoiler: 3 and 4

I meant to move the first one down to reference both as I came to the same conclusion but forgot to get rid of the first one oof.

I am simply saying game plans early on are anti-town in the long run. And NK does matter to scum, if we say [x] will flips scum if [y] dies. Scum can choose to kill y, and x will look bad securing a miselim, assuming otherwise is a lapse of judgement.

And my question is that if we eliminate anyone today, and they flip town. Who would progress the game the most do you think. And if you think flipping Andante progresses the game regardless then why are you dead against it? Also any scum flip progresses the game that's why I am not asking the reverse.

Spoiler: 5

By "hard pushing against them" I mean you're pushing to not wagon them. And regarding me only reacting when they speak about me, that's also a portion of why I heavy-tunnel and I am trying to get better at it but it's hard getting out of a habit.

[JacksonVirgo]

@Skitter, mind adding your thoughts on this before I say anything about it.

I think once he realized the deadline was longer he was willing to switch votes ?

Except that wasn't it at all I believe. It was that they voted me simply because they wanted a wagon that wasn't Andante. Could be remembering wrong as well

Right, he townreads andante tho so whats the problem?

I misread one of the posts, I thought they called me confscum and then backed out when I stopped voting there. Missed them calling it a sarcastic vote or whatnot

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Andandte

You were gonna hammer without a full-claim?

[JacksonVirgo]

I TR Skitter and HoG, the latter being weaker.
Pooky is a SL.
Wheme is a bit of an oofer for me, they're acting anti-town but I also don't think it's scummy rather than townies acting anti-town.
Grandpa and Andante are my SR's, the latter is again weaker.
Have no real read on Fizz.

I have small moments of pause with my andante read as I've said.

[JacksonVirgo]

Andante how experienced are you at mafia?

[JacksonVirgo]

I think I have a clutch read

[JacksonVirgo]

I wonder why the game is somewhat stagnant

I think it's because nobody is getting points across effectively and getting burned out. I am hoping a flip will bring things back when that happens

[JacksonVirgo]

Andante how experienced are you at mafia?

Please answer this with as much detail as possible and ASAP

[JacksonVirgo]

I wonder why the game is somewhat stagnant

I think it's because nobody is getting points across effectively and getting burned out. I am hoping a flip will bring things back when that happens

dw stay tuned...

Am excited, when can I expect it to drop?

[JacksonVirgo]

I have something to add, but I am gonna wait for Grandpa before posting

[JacksonVirgo]

This is pending, and if Grandpa disappoints I will flip back there but for now I think this is the way to go honestly

VOTE: Pooky

I severely doubt newb!scum would out a pr soft instead of keeping it in the scum PT, be this self-destructive and not even claim at all when at E-1 as well as be wagoned this bad with no resistance. Also saying that Grandpa did make that a valid point and I am ready to give some weight onto Skitter's read and hopefully if their ISO dive post is good enough I am willing to stay here and see if I am in a false-tunnel.

[JacksonVirgo]

The one time I don't try and pagetop I get it, smh my head

[JacksonVirgo]

Could you post what you have?

[JacksonVirgo]

hey im halfway done writing. finished all the iso reads. will start on the other part of my analysis tmr i rlly need to go to sleep. but so far i do not like what is happening these past 2 days. Pooky why switch to wheme that quick? Werent me and JV your gamesolve? So does that imply that your vote wasn't serious? You vote someone who was scumread by the person you were voting... JV you vote the person that was wanting to get voted by me who you scumread as well. These are some weird ass pivots please stick to you actually think is scum.

I voted there because I think they're actually more likely to flip wolf than Andante at this point, that and I don't believe I will get the leverage to elim you at this point in the game.

[JacksonVirgo]

Jv i think gm, quite honestly does not go to this length to answer u as scum

Pooky were you thinking u might die before p32 or

On mobile cant respond to that large boi but Ill get there.

Thoughts on my reasonings to vote off Andante

[JacksonVirgo]

Spoiler:

Okay hey there!

This will be a long post. This will include interactions from Andante, Pooky, Skitter, Wheme, and of course JV. JV wanted something of that sort, and I will bring the analysis onto you JV; you are the main focus hence why you are the only one in this ISO wall post.

1. Analysis Through Wallposts

Responses will be in

whatever random color I chose.

Note: I did write some early info on my notebook regarding JV while looking at a depth ISO analysis so if you do see more of post numbers than that is why. It is very hard to really respond to everything, but I pointed out some noticeable and notable things that were worthy of replying to.

VOTE: Grandpa Mo

i still like fizz, not sure scum fakes this or has this take

i was thinking of switching my vote to grandpa tbh

pedit yeah i'll do that too VOTE: grandpa

I'm swinging this way as well at this point

Sup batch files, I have returned back to newbie games.

pepega SE

Mood

admiration / thanks will be collected in the form of PayPal

thank you!!

Sure! I'll send it to you, just need your account username and password

s of now, Jackson keeps finding a way to coast which is kinda lame because I really want to hear from them so I can perceptualize an actual read on them

You can't actually have this pop into your head, after I've literally explained I was going to work and that I was going to sleep FOR work the night earlier. Your entire perspective is broken

VOTE: GrandpaMo

Okay so I believe this is where it first began and everything that led to our early game interaction. Our first quote on quote misunderstanding. And this stems from you misunderstanding what I said. Later on, I do admit to something I may have misunderstood causing me to read something wrong. Anyways, you took my reaction through you working seriously and thought that I had a scum mindset in which I wouldn't really be focused on you and just let you go by. You misunderstood me because that wasn't really what I was saying and later on I was trying to get you to understand that wasn't anything that should be considered scummy or reactive or anything. You thought my perspective was just you coasting in scum terms, in which I disagree. My perspective during that time was that "hey you said you are working = expecting some coastiness > expect some reads later on. That was how my mindset during that initial read. You

misunderstood

what I said and took it in another account. Also something with the pivoting quotes earlier mentioned above. That is where I was thinking "hmmm do mafia usually do this in forum mafia... sheep just so openly" I never really had the chance to look at other games or really look into the framework as this game. This will be a precedent game and I hope we do win as town so I can start my winning streak. FYI You do NOT have to agree with me. But as my analysis shows, that is what it assumes/implies.

Sad thing is that I never scumread you because you were coasting lmao. I said you kept having excuses (which were genuine) and you had to coast intentional or not intentional. I feel like this is a mafia BW. I am waiting for other takes from other people, to really look at more pairings and interactions with you because you did actually come out with info now.

Did I say that you were scum-reading me for me coasting? No, I didn't. I am saying your perspective is not one that aligns with what I would consider a town mindset.

This is the second misunderstanding of the interaction. And I will come out and admit that it was my misunderstanding on how I misunderstood what your initial post was saying. I thought you were implying a scum read on me because I was already biased that you were overreactive and had a sense of a scum mentality where you would get so offended like that. And so I just correlated the two together and got that perspective.

Sad thing is that I never scumread you because you were coasting lmao. I said you kept having excuses (which were genuine) and you had to coast intentional or not intentional. I feel like this is a mafia BW. I am waiting for other takes from other people, to really look at more pairings and interactions with you because you did actually come out with info now.

Did I say that you were scum-reading me for me coasting? No, I didn't. I am saying your perspective is not one that aligns with what I would consider a town mindset.

Also the typical scum-tell of the 'lmao' has emerged.

In this quote, I thought that you were trying to find the easiest of tells or ways to actually push me hence why I said you were over reacting in post 176. This is where honestly I further exemplified my scum case on you coming out and saying it was sarcastic maybe made it seem like you were tryna cover your tracks, however this could have even just been further bias on me.

Another thing... No one answered my question which I geninuly am curious to know as it will make much more sense on pairings and stuff.

How many mafia are usually in a 9 player setup?

Check the OP, the game setup is there. It's a 2v7 game (2 mafia, 7 town). A random spot on the bottom three columns are selected, those are the Town PR roles (all other roles are going to be Vanilla Townies) and the Mafia will have the roles at the top of that specific column.

If I butchered this explanation let me know

Oh well that changes my perspective on something.

Okay cool. And?

Something I should include as I never got to answer it. It was a moment of realization where I actually had to change my perspective on how I thought pooky and skitter back then were being paired with third possible back mafia. Now I realized making the reads I did back then, I realized that only 2 mafia was available hence why I came up with pooky/skitter - jv/fizz.

Sad thing is that I never scumread you because you were coasting lmao. I said you kept having excuses (which were genuine) and you had to coast intentional or not intentional. I feel like this is a mafia BW. I am waiting for other takes from other people, to really look at more pairings and interactions with you because you did actually come out with info now.

Did I say that you were scum-reading me for me coasting? No, I didn't. I am saying your perspective is not one that aligns with what I would consider a town mindset.

Also the typical scum-tell of the 'lmao' has emerged.

Now I just feel like you are over reaching. I always say lmao,

lmao

It was a semi-joke but the scum-tell is a serious one, and has been documented somewhere on the wiki iirc.

You also said you have blatantly said your scumread on me. Can you please again if you did because you did not and referred me to saying "I have said it multiple times". I expect a reply very soon not something for you to look back and make some random shit as of now.

This is actually manipulative.

And I've said many times that your perspective/mindset is not one I would or ever have considered a townie mindset and this also doubles down as one of my own person strongest scum-tells to look out for. You blatantly sheep another's reads by saying you agree to it, without actually adding any content for yourself, and then you cherry-pick the information to shade me knowing all too well that you knew exactly why I was not active. What you've said to me just now proves that. You aren't town, and I am almost certain

This was just more me of aggressively seeing you as a way to tunnel me and reiterating your reads. I have genuinely asked you at that time for your reads because remember I misunderstood the whole scum case on me. I thought you were basing your scumreads being over defensive of being coasting. I now know why and it is not because of what but the why behind the whole equation. I understand now that you have scumread me because I would have that perception to say that specific quote I said earlier. Even though I disagree with the read, it gave me more result at it. Remember, this is just reiterating information I have already said and saying it again to really clarify to you what I meant.

You have NOT explained my mindset and perspective on how what I did is actual scum. I do agree that I did sheep some of the reads and that is because I actually townread three people in the beginning two of which scumread me. If you look back... you can see I pointed out the possible "1 mafia out of this pair" type situation. I will be voting you for the time being.

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Oh yesseree I did explain why your mindset is wack, in fact I did so in the exact post you're quoting.

Town Mindset: Solving, trying to actively find scum and/or town.
Scum Mindset: Manipulative, trying to survive, trying to make cases on Town.
You: Cherry-pick information, purposefully ignore information (which you know). Sheep then shade a LHF (at the time).

Which section do you honestly believe that fits. Also what the hell does that pair thing has to do with anything.

I thought my mindset was completely normal obviously due to the own self conscious bias but also just using your logic there. I became more infuriated with your own logic as I thought it contradicted. You were here tunneling me and not even actively trying to find scum and etc. I always thought this would have gotten faster but now I am used to playing this style so that's been better. I never knew any of the ignored info by the way. Only time I have cherry picked info is when I have found certain things of what you said was scummy. I thought you were really being hypocritical because you got mad over me calling you coasty now (having that same mindset as before thinking you scumread me because of that and not the mindset). The pair thing has to do what I decipher in my head as town. Obviously you know that we don't share a brain. We both are going to have some different and similar results at times using whatever techniques to get there whether you be scum or town.

I WILL RIGHT NOW LOL! I literally told you many times that you have brought up ways especially general terms in which ANYONE can and quickly pivot that onto me because you already seen TWO people have that synopsis. You also are over reaching on a quote that never was meant to attack you or anything. You were overdefensive and only mafia gets overdefensive on something like that. You get overdefensive because you have nothing else to attack me on that besides that. You are exposed.

You say you're rushing and cannot answer me, which in extension accepts that I did explain the mindset thing yet here you're denying it.

Also Town can't get defensive when they get attacked for literally having the inability to post? Just stop

That second quote right here further signified the scumread I originally had on you. I was very very null scum leaning to you. Because at times you would say it was the perception and how a mafia would think and now you give me this question and now I am conflicted with my own thoughts. "Does this question imply that they were scumreading me based on coasting?" Anyways back to the first part, as you can see I got angry because I really thought you know we were just going at it and it was getting us no where... I was doing everything you were doing and you kept looking me as scum. I started getting more on the agressive side here and try to pin point out the things you have done that in my experience I have scum seen.

This is my first forum game lmao. I have played mafia in other communities though as I said previously. This proves that you are taking what I say out of context.

I am just asking as I originally thought you may be an alt, you're the one reaching now.

Back to the mindset thing. I never have lied anything about you, didn't even scum read you nor really focus on you. Just like how I questioned GeorgeBailey's presence, I questioned yours as Andante has said something about your entrance. I followed up with "yea I can see how that can be weird" then proceed to say that I want to hear from you (which I expected for you to do once you get back from whatever doing).

No, my main point was that you were purposefully omitting information to make me look as bad as possible, of which you've confirmed yourself with your wording. Unless you act deceptive as town, you're simply not. Simple as that. Also you lied by saying I keep making excuses, when I made one which, again, you decide to omit the fact I was at work and decide to shade me.

Coasting never aligns with me being manipulative. Not in any way I have tried to be manipulative. I was just game solving from a town mindset and actively searching for different reads because at that time, I did NOT have a distinct scum read and wanted to hear from you and your reaction to Andante and me hence, why I said the thing I said.

You're using my own words as a reverse-attack here, it does not matter if you said you had a SR on me or not, you WERE shading me by omitting stuff how hard is this to understand.

You are also hypocritical to the fact that you as well never answered my question in post 187.

Don't remember this, I'll check back.

Because were you or were you not?? Did you or did you not leave? Yes you did. Hence I said what I said.

This question? Are you serious? You're taking low blows in hopes to up your defence when it's not. To answer the seeming rhetorical question; I did leave, I was at work like I said. Does that mean you can scummily shade me and manipulate the given state and get away with it? Definitely not.

And by manipulate the state, like I've said a thousand times at this point. You specifically choose to omit that fact I was at work, and say I was coasting. You also blatantly exaggerate it to make it seem like I am constantly trying to not post, when it was page 6. Adding to the fact that you were sapping off the fact I was a LHF at the time in hopes to make me look bad.

where you have gotten overdefensive on something such as me calling you out as coasting.

As I said, I am not happy that you just put me in a bad light and I am not accepting the fact that a Town would do that willingly, which again I have proven that it WAS willing.

I thought it was obvious town saw me replying to your information that what I said originally was based on the assumption that you were at work. That is why it was necessary not to include information that was explicitly said. I never used that omitted information, I used how you originally reacted to me against you because like I said there was no problem in the first place. Just a terms of misunderstanding really just caused that whole interaction

why are you so fixated on me?

I am getting a specific

vibe

from them but I am not sure exactly where I lie with it. They're not addressing the original questions, sure. But I have a feeling that this post is genuine.

I hate vibe reads. I guess you did give a real read but just to let you know, I really despise vibe reads. I don't know; the nature of them just feel so unnecessary to the actual content and game solving of the actual game. So the from your point of view, I think this is where you start picking up on Andante here and this is how I saw you feel towards Andante. I think you are the least likely to make the sheep here knowing your playstyle (more info down below). Mafia just wouldn't be that obvious in my opinion.

lurking isn't a really good sign

Okay, I am starting to think our definitions are different.

Lurking -> reading the thread but choosing not to post in it for [X] reason. (which I should also clarify isn't AI by itself if someone does lurk).

This was based on the reality that lurking meant actual scum type of coasting. You read the post, not choose to post because you don't want the attention sitatuid on yourself or any other scum tells that happen with coasting/lurking. Pretty much this quote in general meant we both disagreed on something but moved on after... a contentious that felt genuine.

I would be big sad if skitter was scum.

Good thing she is town this game :3

bad quote smh

im still so paranoid about this, can anyone tell me if this sounds scum?

If nobody has said this yet, I do think that sounds scummy. I also think they look bad in the following interaction.

Spoiler:

ok who do you want to elim today?

The mafia.

yea me too

Good plan everyone, glad we're still on the same page

~
Pooky i think u can be aligned with andante fwiw

I am aligned with the town :3

I think we both had the same initiative thought about this interaction. We are both stepping back and realizing the difference it makes without tunneling each other. This is why I was starting to town lean more here due to you having the same thought as me because you are thinking and looking like a townsmember.

Replying to Andante's wallpost in 487. My responses in

Bolded Red

Spoiler:

sorry this is so long...

JacksonVirgo: 43 ISO posts, LOTS of quotes and responding to quotes.

Is this a problem? You're making it out that it is

2 people vote Grandpa, and Jackson goes “I’m swinging this way as well at this point” - #162 with no interactions directed at Grandpa before that, then in #162 Jackson votes Grandpa after yelling that they were gonna sleep/go to work?? I do believe Jackson was genuinely mad, but like, it’s weird. #167 Jackson says “I am saying your perspective is not one that aligns with what I would consider a town mindset.” But all Jackson has really SAID about/to grandpa was explained the setup, and got mad at GM cause Jackson said they were gonna go to bed/work, yet assumes they have to stick around and talk to GM??
You are aware you can just walk away and resume whenever right??

Depending on how busy my life is at the time, I sometimes can't get super into a game until later which leads to me reading but not posting, which happened until Grandpa heavy-duty caught my radar. You're also taking my words out of context here. Grandpa was omitting information that was making me look bad, of which I wasn't going to accept so of course I attacked back. I explained many times about the mindset thing so why are you choosing to ignore that. I do not like leaving stones unturned when I play, get used to my playstyle or yeet me.

~~ I see why yall wanted me to react to this exchange earlier lmao ~~
Just reading this, Jackson feels mad/annoyed at GM for the questions. GM asked for a reason for a read, and in #168 you go “I’ve given one, rather blatantly if I do say so myself” then in #169 JV scumreads GM for saying lmao.
Like, I could see this as town conf biased Grandpa is scum, but it really feels like JV has just decided to tunnel GM.
In #179, I find this really interesting, JV calls GM manipulative, then talks about GM sheeping another’s read without adding to it, then picking info to make JV look bad. I haven’t ISOd GM yet, but this reaction to GM wondering the reason JV SRs them? The #179 paragraph is just a very generic thing, it’s not even like “you said this here, and changed the context here” Town or Maf, Jackson feels like they aren’t even going to consider a Grandpa town world, which makes me lean JV scum, but I’ll keep reading.
#180 Jackson still seems mad about being “expected to be there when they previously said they wouldn’t be” like, this type of anger isn’t alignment indicative, but I do kinda SR the fact JV has so many posts about it, when you could literally just walk away any moment and return later, and no one will care.

I was very frustrated with having to deal with what Grandpa was doing, yes. Your response to my 169 is weak and seems overly shady, tbh it's not even a response it's just reiterating what was done with no input of your own. Repeating again, me deadass tunneling a player without looking elsewhere is a bad habit of mine, even if I am right I am trying not to do so. Again, you're attacking something that's just my
playstyle, so stop.

#183 JV explains a town vs scum mindset, and I’ll add, a town mindset would be trying to find maf/acknowledging your read might not be right, cause JV has just been tunneling Grandpa, granted GM is probably the only one speaking right now, but posts like this kinda just reaffirm that your only goal is to tunnel GM, I kinda agree with GM’s #181 JV hasn’t explained the GM specific things, just keeps talking in general terms.
#186 JV is still yelling about being in the forum longer than they wanted?
Again, you are more than welcome to walk away whenever, we have 7 IRL days for d2/3/4
JV asking GM about maf experience… as if that will change anything about this little situation… I’m trying to not make a super long post here lol I know yall aren’t gonna want to read this
#227 FINALLY a post not to GM, JV responds to Fizz about spamming the thread, which in my opinion is a really weird post to respond to lol especially going “I don’t think this is AI” like, I think in that content, it definitely pointed more to JV scum GM town, like, also based on what I remember people saying, others agreed with that, and I really see it.
#229 “I have a surface level TR on skitz because their entrance” this comment feels really out there. Just had this huge exchange with GM about how you need reasons.. also in #160 basically told me reading entrances was bad, but if JV does it, it’s ok!!

Acknowledging a read may/may not be right is a personality thing and/or confidence thing so I disagree with you. 186 you're completely misrepresenting/misunderstanding there. I am proving that I was not just bullshitting my way out of posting like Grandpa was making out I was doing. And I am ALLOWED to ask people for experience, I was trying to fucking gauge them. Now I'm lowkey getting mad. I do not care if any of my posts are "out there", I've explained what I did and I am not going to again.

****
#298 makes a point to go back to skitter about the entrance? This exchange with the 2 feels really weird. I was a tad sus of skit before, and this makes it feel like “I need to force an interaction with my partner” it’s so significant, I’ll actually quote it below.

I have a surface level TR on skitz mainly because their entrance felt ballsy in a sense scum wouldn't try. Also the fact they don't have an issue with switching reads, scum tend to stick to it as to not feel opportunistic.

Oh? How was it ballsy?

It just seems overly, hype/exciting in a way that seems too risky for scum to do as it may appear as pockety.

*****
#412 is another post just speaking in general, and not really directed at anyone “scum would do this…”
#413 – JV knows I’m town likely from TMI but I’ll take a tr right now
#423- I mean, if you ISO Glory, Glory’s lines are fine, definitely not bad.

You're making associative reads before any flips happen, which is generally bad practice as you're >rand wrong when you do that. Just stick to singular reads and go from flips, trust me on that one. I hate the fact you're shading me for 413 which is legitimately LAMIST, and I no longer town-lean you. It's actually quite funny how big your contradiction here is though, you said a town mindset is knowing your reads may not be right, but here you are fairly certain on me/skitter being scum (more specifically me here) and yeah, according to your very own logic you are scum. Congrats fam

Knowing your playstyle this game so far, I feel as though this wallpost on you gave like more of a bias standing against Andante. You feel weird about Andante. Andante scumreads you > then you scumread them stronger. Do you understand what I am trying to say? You may disagree but from my perspective that is how it looks like. You have to also really consider... does scum iso you like that? and really try to give their best in coordinating associate reads? Just seems really eh enough of a towny reaction of responses just like I am doing now to really see it from a perspective.

Also Wheme looks pretty decent at this current moment imo. 552 I like a lot and it's something I would have said if they didn't

I hope that isn't your finalized read on wheme...

_____________________________________________________________________________________

1a. Conclusion

Okay so basically this will be a TLDR of what I have said throughout this sort analysis. These are what I usually had written down next to me just for reference. So from post 162, The first misunderstanding happen; the initial push from JacksonVirgo. From post 167, the second misunderstanding happens; I assume not a real assumption. Around post 169, you use small embellishments that make me more angry and tunnel you further making assumptions that you were getting to me for everything. By post 173, this is where I officially think that you were getting to me by everything. From Post 183 to some posts later, you now fully explain the whole mindset concept in greater length and detail and I now understand the initial scum push on me. Around post 197, I started associating hypocrisy to everything you did trying to scum push me further. Towards later posts you start having the same thoughts as me. You lessen and twiddle down the energy. We BOTH do that. And realize something a conceptual / intuitive thought we may have head that if we both try to actually and try to look for scum instead of tunneling we can get the game going on. It was no point of arguing no more since we couldn't get the point across to each other. We both tried and failed essentially as we both probably still disagree with each other on the majority of reads. Right now, you have stayed in a very neutral position where you are playing so like aggressive but you havent been making really big scumtells. I will try not to be paranoid and actually seek what your actually alignment later on.

INCOMPLETE

Yeah alright, what I've seen so far makes me think that I've been blind-tunneling. I'm gonna probably push for a pooky elim today

[JacksonVirgo]

Jv i think gm, quite honestly does not go to this length to answer u as scum

Yeah I am getting the same impression as well

[JacksonVirgo]

Jv i think gm, quite honestly does not go to this length to answer u as scum

Pooky were you thinking u might die before p32 or

On mobile cant respond to that large boi but Ill get there.

Thoughts on my reasonings to vote off Andante

I apologize, i'm a little scatterbrained this week, would you mind requoting?

This is pending, and if Grandpa disappoints I will flip back there but for now I think this is the way to go honestly

VOTE: Pooky

I severely doubt newb!scum would out a pr soft instead of keeping it in the scum PT, be this self-destructive and not even claim at all when at E-1 as well as be wagoned this bad with no resistance. Also saying that Grandpa did make that a valid point and I am ready to give some weight onto Skitter's read and hopefully if their ISO dive post is good enough I am willing to stay here and see if I am in a false-tunnel.

I read it over again and they didn't have "no" resistance, they just had very little.

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh sorry for that broken spoiler tag

[JacksonVirgo]

2. I dont think the not-claiming bit is particularly ai and i can see it coming from scum who dont want to commit to claiming a pr but want to maintain the *possibility* of being one to scare people off so to speak

The way they did so was that they were mad at the town in a way that's self-destructive instead of self-preservative.

[JacksonVirgo]

Hi all. There sure is alot of reading

you're likely gonna be better off skimming ISOs than rereading the whole thing tbh

Don't actually do this, you'll miss all the context

[JacksonVirgo]

I keep flip flopping on my Andante read, they keep pulling that excuse out of their ass as if they have a right to just do fuck all just because they're being SR but at the same time I understand that might be a feeling.

[JacksonVirgo]

Yes plz

[JacksonVirgo]

vote for Andante or Whemestar plz

Why aren’t you sheeping skitter anymore?

Because they realised they're being wagoned now and needs to actually try probably

[JacksonVirgo]

Neither

[JacksonVirgo]

Neither, I am not listening to whatever shit you're saying. You slank off the entire game, and then "try" right at the end of the day as if that makes you look better and then expect me to follow whatever the fuck you say just because you say it and then shade me if I don't. Fuck right off

[JacksonVirgo]

Whatever the fuck you say

[JacksonVirgo]

If you seriously expect me to vote for someone who I think is Town now, you are literally insane. I do not even care about whatever bullshit about pushing no-elim when rn there are two people are at a higher wagon than yourself so even if I don't fuckin' compromise it wouldn't even matter unless someone switches to you.

[JacksonVirgo]

Imagine ignoring three quarters of a post.

[JacksonVirgo]

fantastic scumchat ping, but more importantly why is this day not over yet?

What?

[JacksonVirgo]

what are you so angry about?

Bad day

[JacksonVirgo]

honestly like I don't even remember if I was mafia VT or pr in this game all i know that is this jackson person is too towny and this pooky person is probably scum

tenks

If you think they're scum, where is your vote.

[JacksonVirgo]

UNVOTE:

Fuck

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Whemestar

I am not voting for Andante unless you case them hard.

[JacksonVirgo]

@Mod, can we have a VC asap

[JacksonVirgo]

Actually wait

[JacksonVirgo]

VC

WhemeStar

(4) -> PookyTheMagicalBear, Andante, JacksonVirgo, Fizz Raab

Andante

(3) -> skitter30, Ahri, WhemeStar

PookyTheMagicalBear

(1) -> GrandpaMo

Irish dancer

(1) -> Irish dancer

Day ends in (expired on 2021-04-04 10:14:14)

Generated by my tool.

[JacksonVirgo]

Just found out the ordering is broken, will fix owo

[JacksonVirgo]

Okay so wagon related. I think Andante's wagon is absolutely garbage, minus skitter. Where if Pooky's claim is serious then that wagon is primarily all Town except maybe Fizz.

[JacksonVirgo]

Alright so if I assume GrandpaMo, Andante, skitter30, PookyTheMagicalBear and myself are all Town. That leaves four remaining players which would contain two scum.

In a 9p.
2v7 -> 2v6
2v5 -> 2v4
2v3 -> 2v2.

We have three eliminations in this game unless a protection/no-elim occurs or we hit scum (which gives us an extra elim). That means we can clear that entire 4 PoE if we're right.

Also I am purposefully omitting my reads in this post for a reason I am not explaining this day. If I die tonight, don't decipher it as you may just end up following the logic I am not intending thanks.

[JacksonVirgo]

wait is the day over

Nope, 2 minutes

[JacksonVirgo]

Deadline for Day One: 0 days, 0 hours, 1 minute

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Wheme
I feel if they were Town they would have gotten hammered.

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Wheme
I feel if they were Town they would have gotten hammered.

btw during the night, i did go check ur games, uve developed... in my opinion. so like when ur mafia ur more like memish and shit but when u flip town u get aggressive and usually initaite pushes. u get overdefnsive in both playstyles i have seen. i rlly dont know if ur maybe tryna get that to be like wifom?

I seriously cannot mimic my town games at all, but take that as you will. Didn't you say you had done the large post?

[JacksonVirgo]

wait, I read that wrong, sorry!! Ahri wasn't there. Grandpa definitely was.. Granpa.. what the heck??

VOTE: Grandpa

If Grandpa wanted to wait it out to a no-elim they wouldn't have posted I think.

[JacksonVirgo]

second, i thought someone was going getting voted out no matter what since there was still a majority.

This was my thought as well and only when EoD hit I realised. And also I now understand pooky's pushing for wheme/andante earlier regarding no-elim oops

[JacksonVirgo]

Pooky's final thoughts

[JacksonVirgo]

Spoiler: VC Just as a place-holder as well as just for testing my tool

VC

Andante

(1) -> skitter30 [E-3]

GrandpaMo

(1) -> Andante [E-3]

WhemeStar

(1) -> JacksonVirgo [E-3]

Not Voting

(5) -> GrandpaMo, Fizz Raab, Irish dancer, Ahri, WhemeStar
Day ends in (expired on 2021-04-14 19:49:39)

Also if I recall correctly, there can only be a Tracker now. Should we hypo-claim results as scum have a role cop. Would like to see people's thoughts BEFORE we do any claiming.

And if you don't know what hypo-claiming is, it's claiming real (if you're the tracker)/fake (if you're not) results so when the real Tracker dies we do not lose their results but it's still less likely scum will be able to find who they are. Also hypo-claiming a guilty if you do not have one is a big no no and will give away that you're not the Tracker if you claim it wrong (chances are you will claim it wrong).

[JacksonVirgo]

Jv is town

Can I ask why you're saying this out of the blue?

[JacksonVirgo]

UNVOTE:

Vote pending, am gonna do something first.

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: WhemeStar

My thing can wait a while

[JacksonVirgo]

Wait did that literally happen

[JacksonVirgo]

?

It's nothing

[JacksonVirgo]

i'm really kinda confused lol

Don't worry about it aha

[JacksonVirgo]

Skitter -> GrandpaMo -> Andante are all Town in that order.|

Ahri, Hand of Glory, WhemeStar and Fizz Raab are all the possible scum from my current reads and all except one is posting really. This is bad, that and we missed one elim which is probably crucial.

[JacksonVirgo]

Can we try to sort a wagon prior to the last 24 hours at the very most, consider the day to be 6 IRL days long and use the 7th to get the claims/hammer.

I am pushing for a WhemeStar elim right now but I am going to ISO everyone in the scum-pile first and then go for the town-pile. Town needs to put extra effort in to win this game.

[JacksonVirgo]

Who did Irish replace btw, was Hand of Ahri?

[JacksonVirgo]

Who did Irish replace btw, was Hand or Ahri?

Fixed, wheps

[JacksonVirgo]

Spoiler: Non-Official VC

VC

Andante

(1) -> skitter30 [E-3]

WhemeStar

(2) -> Andante, JacksonVirgo [E-2]

Not Voting

(5) -> GrandpaMo, Fizz Raab, Irish dancer, Ahri, WhemeStar
Day ends in (expired on 2021-04-14 19:49:39)

Also this

[JacksonVirgo]

Ahri's general tone seems to match their previous game, they think acting anti-town is super cool when it's not so I'm not wanting to elim there atm.

Wheme is completely different than the Animals UPick game I replaced into with them in it, and they were town in there as far as I remember, I checked mod PT etc but couldn't find concrete proof that they were and I forget so eh.

Hand of Glory/Fizz and Irish's first game so I cannot meta-dive them.

[JacksonVirgo]

Andante's tone is slightly off from their other game, although I am not sure if I can read that as scum as game by game changes are almost certain and they were being outright attacked in this game where they were killed at night (assuming mafia) so that would have been a much less intense game for them.

I know skitter has a bunch of games but from memory and I know they're strong as scum so I am not gonna meta-dive them because I'd rather keep my sanity, maybe later.

[JacksonVirgo]

ok so look. i think we win this game with this gamesolve. if one flips town move onto the next person: vote wheme >>> andante >>> ahri >>> irish >>> then possibly fizz.

i think this order gamesolves the game honestly. depending on who flips town or what; it will giv more finalized voting patterns which can change. but atp i think we should vote wheme of an info vote.

So you don't think I'm scum anymore? Also I thought you were hot on Andante being town?

[JacksonVirgo]

on't have people there in realtime to unvote

Depends on the position of the other scum.

If the other scum is being SR as well, a VT claim is solid as you want to stay alive. Also a PR already outted so it's NAI

[JacksonVirgo]

Also where is the post Grandpa

[JacksonVirgo]

Fizz Raab are all the possible scum from my current reads and all except one is posting really. This is bad, that and we missed one elim which is probably crucial.

Can you explain to me why I'm scum when I know clearly you're town from the action I had last night? I don't think you saw that post so how can I be scum if I claimed you as town?

Fucking stop claiming jesus fucking christ

[JacksonVirgo]

Fizz Raab are all the possible scum from my current reads and all except one is posting really. This is bad, that and we missed one elim which is probably crucial.

Can you explain to me why I'm scum when I know clearly you're town from the action I had last night? I don't think you saw that post so how can I be scum if I claimed you as town?

Fucking stop claiming jesus fucking christ

I was TRYING to get it hidden as I thought other's saw it but they didn't (or chose to ignore it as well)
You lowkey probably destroyed Town's chances here

[JacksonVirgo]

How is it destroying town's chances to win, Jackson? It's more benefitting town than not claiming anything at all, doesn't it? Isn't that what you do? Last I checked, you can do that. I don't know what you mean by being lowkey, but it's the ones who are too quiet that are destroying town's chances to win man. What about IrishDancer who hasn't said anything since he got replaced?

Okay understand like this.
Town ONLY has two power roles at MOST. And since one is now dead, take your guess why I am like this.

[JacksonVirgo]

Damn it... my entire gane-plan has gone to shit now.
But eh, you're a newbie so it happens. I assume you come from a role-madness game like Town of Salem or something.
Next time PLEASE read the setup when playing a game so this doesn't happen okay?

Sorry for getting mad

Here's the setup

Spoiler:

Setup Info

Newbie Setup

Newbie Setup

NewD3 (as designed by RadiantCowbells):

	A	B	C
Mafia	Mafia Roleblocker	Mafia Rolecop	Mafia Goon
Row 1	Town Cop and Town Doctor	Town Tracker and Town Friendly Neighbor	Town Cop and Vanilla Townie
Row 2	Town Jailkeeper and Town Tracker	Town Jailkeeper and Town Friendly Neighbor	Town Jailkeeper and Vanilla Townie
Row 3	Town Mason and Town Mason	Town Tracker and Town Doctor	Town Mason and Town Mason

Each Newbie Game will be given a setup that incorporates one mafia role from the top of a column, and then two town roles from a row below the selected mafia role. The remaining six roles will be filled in by

one mafia goon

and

five vanilla townies

appropriately, to create a

2-mafia

and

7-town

setup.

All Newbie games use the Natural Action Resolution system for determining Night action effects.

Mafia Roleblocker

action takes precedence over a

Town Jailkeeper

action should that apply.

Mafia are able to communicate in their Private Topic at all times.

Spoiler: Full Setups

Column A & Row 1:

Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Town Cop, Town Doctor, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column A & Row 2:

Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Town Jailkeeper, Town Tracker, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column A & Row 3:

Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Town Mason x2, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column B & Row 1:

Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Goon, Town Tracker, Town Friendly Neighbor, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column B & Row 2:

Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Goon, Town Jailkeeper, Town Friendly Neighbor, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column B & Row 3:

Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Goon, Town Tracker, Town Doctor, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column C & Row 1:

Mafia Goon x 2, Town Cop, Vanilla Townie x 6

Column C & Row 2:

Mafia Goon x 2, Town Jailkeeper, Vanilla Townie x 6

Column C & Row 3:

Mafia Goon x 2, Town Mason x2, Vanilla Townie x 5

Mods should use the sample role PMs below.

Sample Role PM's (click on the spoiler button to reveal)

Spoiler:

Vanilla Townie

Welcome!

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

You have no special abilities.

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Jailkeeper

Welcome!

You are a

Town Jailkeeper

.

You may target one player per night phase. This player will be protected from kills and be prevented from using their own action, if they have one, during that night phase. You cannot target yourself.

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Cop

Welcome!

You are a

Town Cop

.

You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed if they are

Town

or

Mafia

. If you are roleblocked, you will receive no result.

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Mason

Welcome!

You are a

Town Mason

.

You know that [player] is Town-aligned. You also share a Private Thread (PT), located here, where you may talk at any time.

You have no active abilities.

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

Town Tracker

Welcome!

You are a

Town Tracker

.

You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed what player or players they targeted with their action, if any. If you are roleblocked, you will receive no result.

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Doctor

Welcome!

You are a

Town Doctor

.

You may target one player per night phase. This player will be protected from kills during that night phase. You cannot target yourself.

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Friendly Neighbor

Welcome!

You are a

Town Friendly Neighbor

.

You may target one player per night phase. This player will be sent a message informing them that you are Town-aligned.

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Mafia Goon

Welcome!

You are a

Mafia Goon

.

You and your partner share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You also share a factional Private Thread (PT), located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

Mafia Rolecop

Welcome!

You are a

Mafia Rolecop

.

You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed of their role but not their alignment.

Vanilla Townies

and

Mafia Goons

will both return "Vanilla". If you are roleblocked, you will receive no result.

You and your partner share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You may commit the kill and perform a role cop in the same night phase. You also share a factional Private Thread (PT), located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

Mafia Roleblocker

Welcome!

You are a

Mafia Roleblocker

.

You may target one player per night. This player will be prevented from performing their own action, if any.

You and your partner share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You may commit the kill and perform a roleblock in the same night phase. You also share a factional Private Thread (PT), located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

[JacksonVirgo]

Whoops that broke

[JacksonVirgo]

Also I guess I am cleared regardless of whether they're Jailkeeper or Tracker as I would have likely done the kill as scum unless the other scum is someone who is up further in the town such as skitter.

[JacksonVirgo]

Back to the setup. Since a Friendly Neighbour is dead, there are two setups that this can be.

Friendly Neighbour + Tracker
Friendly Neighbour + Jailkeeper

Both with a Role Cop, which acts like a Consigliere if you are from ToS. Which gets the role of the their target.

[JacksonVirgo]

Since the Friendly Neighbour is deado, there's only a Tracker or a Jailkeeper for Town. If that's gone it's essentially a mountainous (which means only vanilla roles, roles with no abilities).

a 2v11 mountanious is balanced for Town. Since this is a 2v7 from the start we are in a MASSIVE disadvantage and it's likely a loss. That and we didn't even get an elimination in on D1 so scum had the advantage there anyway.

I am still going to try my hardest at this game, as should all of you to counter the odds but yeah, take that as you will.

[JacksonVirgo]

If you're Jailkeeper you can still stop a kill if you block the killer, which we SHOULD NOT DISCUSS FURTHER. If you're Tracker you only have a semi-clear.

[JacksonVirgo]

Skitter is probably more of a threat to the scum late-game than a Tracker/Jailkeeper

so a tracker kill tonight is probably a bad move even for scum.

[JacksonVirgo]

The problem is I don't understand the categories of the setups as there are so many of them and I get left confused as hell. There's a reason why I don't and it's to do with my learning difficulty that I have trouble understanding things. Sometimes I need to be beaten over the damn head so many times until I get it.

I never played any of those games you stated or anywhere for that matter. So yeah, I'm keeping my mouth shut for now until I get more reads.

That makes sense, apologies for getting so frustrated.
If you look at that table, one of the red roles are selected at random (roleblocker/rolecop/goons) and then one of the green pairs are selected below that role at random.

In this setup a RoleCop was selected meaning one of the three pairs below that are selected as well.
That being one of these three:

• Friendly Neighbour + Jailkeeper
  
• Friendly Neighbour + Tracker
  
• Tracker + Doctor

And since there's a Friendly Neighbour dead, it cannot be the last one. Does that make sense?

[JacksonVirgo]

A Mafia Goon (A mafia with no other ability other than killing and talking to the other mafia) is paired with whatever red role was chosen on the table.

And the rest of the players are given Vanilla Townie role cards, which are Towns that have no other ability.

[JacksonVirgo]

Alright so the scum pool has officially shrunk again. But I am having doubts all are in the group of three of Ahri/Irish/Wheme.

[JacksonVirgo]

If Fizz is scum claiming that, it's pretty safe to counter-claim here but you can always wait until at least tomorrow to get one more result in etc.

[JacksonVirgo]

@Mod

Andante/Irish needs prodding

[JacksonVirgo]

again @fizz are you rolecop? i still want you to fully claim since you basically outted ur self.

No do not make them claim.

[JacksonVirgo]

The effectiveness of both Tracker/Jailkeeper is the exact same. It clears a user the exact same, but one cannot outright guilty someone unlike the other.

• Jailkeeper + Kill -> The target did not perform the kill, as the kill would have been blocked. Objective 50% clear, reads may change that.
  
• Tracker + No Visit Result -> The target did not perform the kill. Objective 50% clear, reads may change that.
  
• Jailkeeper + No Kill -> The target either was saved from a kill or was blocked from doing the kill. Objective 50% guilty, reads may change that.
  
• Tracker + Visited kill target -> Target almost 100% killed them, unless another PR exists that visited them.
  
• Tracker + Visit elsewhere -> You either caught the other town PR or caught the scum PR.

[JacksonVirgo]

I am curious of a discrepancy I have just realised from Fizz.