Newbie 2059 - Scummer's Baking Championship (Baked Over)

[Hand of Glory]

First online game for me as well. Hi, everyone.

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I'm more wary of people trying to take sides in the skitter/Fizz argument than about skitter/Fizz themselves. I don't think scum would be as stubborn as Fizz about not voting D1; instead, they'd see town-Fizz not budging from a stance that's obviously unpopular with several townies and try to create "reasonable" pushback against it. Someone who's been flagged as townish already by several others (Andante) is getting annoyed by the "pointlessness" and "steps away" -- scum should like softly discouraging someone leaning trustworthy from participating.

skitter meanwhile hasn't pushed Fizz that much over this conflict and seems to be leaving her alone rn, which makes me think skitter is pro-town. Could be anti-town skitter rubbing hands after picking out just the right person to antagonize over this and watching villagers pick up the snowball, since Fizz did announce her stance very early, but skitter put her foot forward first with voting early, she's being consistent.

I'm more curious about VOTE: PookyTheMagicalBear.

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@Andante

Mafia wouldn't be expecting this to become no-elim, if they had a hand in this. That's not my point. They would have banked on Fizz losing the argument on whether she should D1 vote -- with no support for her, and several townies signaling that she should change this because she's looking anti-town, and Fizz just not budging.

I strongly disagree with you that town Fizz would have given in by now, I'd argue that would have been more suspicious if anything -- she could have gotten some town cred by "reluctantly, but gracefully" being persuaded to join the apparent consensus on what's pro-town. In fact, I think Fizz has signalled strongly pro-town by keeping her stance, even if some more vocal town doesn't appear to support it.

I'm confused a bit by what you say though, Fizz/skitter argument? I don't think those 2 even interacted, why is pooky your vote? pooky has contributed a lot so far, so if you're trying to rxn, people like fizz/grandpa would be better, so what are you actually sus about with pooky?

skitter/Fizz interact in posts #61/#62. skitter tried to nudge Fizz towards voting D1, consistent with her general encouragement. Pretty light push compared to pooky's, but it's there.

I don't think skitter/pooky look very suspicious each by themselves. What gets me suspicious is their so-far complete agreement on what's pro-town/anti-town -- page 1 they bantered a bit about brownies and both voted; they've both tried to push Fizz towards voting D1; they've both agreed on strongly town-reading you. The only disagreement I've noticed between them is about GrandpaMo, where skitter says she has townpings in #60 while pooky noted a scum tell (#41), but now skitter has switched to Mo so it's settled for now.

I can't gauge well if that's because skitter/pooky are town/town trying to link up on common ground, or one is scum trying to cozy up to a townie who's building a pro-town rapport. Between the two, I think probing pooky is the safer bet because skitter had a vote from GrandpaMo iirc. I didn't want to run the risk of a skitter wagon, even though I'm not yet seeing who'd even jump on that atm.

At least one of them IMO is genuine town, and it could also be both. skitter/pooky flipping scum/scum would just be egregious, right with skitter/Fizz on the shoot-the-moon opening scale. I don't think it's that.

Hi!

what are you curious about?

What do you think of reading Fizz as obvtown -- does that change any read you have?

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@GrandpaMo

Responding to "scum want to survive" with "I don't care about surviving" as you did is a textbook self-nuke for townies. Claiming not to care about survival is anti-town behavior when you're town. If it's true, you're failing at protecting the village power roles (either you're power yourself, or you're throwing away the protection-in-numbers that power needs). If it's a lie, town as a rule doesn't like getting lied to, either. Whereas scum really won't care that much about your trying to WIFOM role/alignment -- miselimination is miselimination. Scum are naturally less afraid of miselim, so more brazen when threatened by it.

You're coming off to me as too obvscum to be true, but even if you're townie I find your play decidedly anti-town -- this is not how to advertise your reads. If I believed in scum Jackson, my tells would be weak at best because I would expect town Jackson to act much the same.

I don't want to risk D1 ending by hammer right now, otherwise I would have put you at E-1. As it stands, make an effort to change your style, or I will most likely act on your word that you don't care about dying.

I will boldly say this as I love to do this when I am town.... I believe there is one mafia between Fizz and Jackson.

LAMIST, also is this not your first game? You said so in your first post.

He said it was his first game of forum mafia, not mafia as such. It's the same for me.

@Fizz

: That's an odd accident. It's my second post of three at that time, and I think it's the first one in the thread where anyone registers a town read on you.

It changes nothing about how I'm reading you as town D1, though. I doubt scum would expect to live long after arguing that D2+ reads are much preferable, and then not delivering markedly good calls D2-D3. Scum not expecting to live long means they're busing. A proactive bus on D1 seems wildly implausible (it's not usually a grand strategy rather than a reactive trade), and even if it is, Fizz is likely not the intended bus survivor judging by the scum tells she's drawn; townies who believe in Fizz = scum gain more from trying to find that one D1.

@Pooky

: You didn't answer my question (#147, at the bottom)

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Ayee first time playing forum mafia. By the way, don't mnd my PFP, it will get changed ASAP!

But... the future refused to change.

My current reads are Fizz as town; 0-1 scum between skitter/pooky; you've been anti-town; rest unclear.

If skitter is scum, you're looking much more like a misguided townie to me, but you've still been having anti-town effects in my view. You told Fizz "you're sheep, not the shepherd" -- but I think you're not picking up on town signals that, if you're town, you're probably not going to be "the shepherd" right now, either, act as though you could be, and should take it back a notch. Some of these could (IMO: almost surely will) be scum influencing you, but there's been too many for them all to be scum.

If it's pooky or neither that's scum, I don't give you good odds of a town read from me.

@Andante

I fell so far behind, and I'm too tired to catch up right now, Hand's post at 147, I was trying to process it, but Hand's posts are just written in a way they take a lot out of me to try and comprehend what they're saying, I'll probably just end up ISOing Hand later

I can't read any of Hand's posts, they're written in this analytical way, makes them so hard to read.

I genuinely can't read Hand, the posts are way too analytical, not really about interactions?? idk, Hand is a later read

You appear to judge writing styles notably often. Jackson and Fizz for their intros (#4 in your iso), Ahri generally, and now me. I was going to let it slide initially, when you were being more lenient, but you can't declare you're "can't read any" of someone's posts as town -- unless you already think it's not worth the effort, and that amounts to you calling quite strongly anti-town on me, even if AI. Which I obviously don't like. It's not the first time someone has said something like this about me, I assure you.

Or would you want me to treat you likewise -- I find your posts hard to read, in turn.

I'll give you something which I believe could convince you that I do pay attention to people's reads and interactions:

VOTE: skitter30

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I think Ahri is going for the magical 8-ball approach where you shake her and a pseudo-random result falls out, but it's designed to crumb as a whole when you iso read her. My guess for the message is "hey town, don't get pocketed here" -- such as in "skitter, how do you feel about [...] being put in the same boat as me", and then "you and what army" at you, and calling "newbie" rather than town/scum on Mo. If that's what she's doing, it's a null tell as such, but situationally moves towards town or scum depending on how serious you think the danger really is.

If nothing else, you and she seem to agree on how I have "weird takes", though she also reads me "seems town" in that post (and said skitter was "stating the obvious" by townreading me; I suspect Ahri was suggesting it's actually not obvious at all)

I don't see why you as town wouldn't care if I read your posts, unless you think I'm anti-town. I think you're clearly not null on me.

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for andante, a few things:
- they feel kinda weird as compared to newbie 2057, which i just played with them. this isn't inherently scummy but is of note
- i dislike their hand of glory take, feels like an easy way to avoid responding/interacting with his content
- i dislike how they say there's scum in you/jv but then vote outside of the pair

i'm not sure they're *more likely* scum than you, but i feel like it's worth exploring

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree.

VOTE: Andante.

I can see that being my final switch for D1, though not because I would have given up on exploration.

FWIW i think grandpamo and andante can be scum together

Maybe.

actually im gonna do something...

UNVOTE: JacksonVirgo

VOTE: Hand of Glory

I'm not sure if I like this.

[Hand of Glory]

bad reaction.

also for yall thinking its me and andante ... i dont think mafia alligns that hard day 1. i mean idk if im being trying to scumsided wit andante. but imo they dont seem scummy to me. i still feel like there are better votes.

out of anyone hog, i thought u would vote someone else.

UNVOTE: Hand of Glory

[...] i forgot hog's stance on

[Andante]

though.

I don't see what reason I'd have to be favourable towards Andante right now -- except one: skitter being scum while Andante is town.

If you think that's plausible, I want to know why weren't you joining my vote on skitter when you had the chance -- particularly if you've called skitter/pooky and Jackson/Fizz as containing 2 scum, and Andante as "very town". I told you a scum flip on skitter would make you look "much more like a misguided townie to me", but a town skitter would "not give you good odds of a town read from me" (#241).

And I think you've thought of a certain reason for skitter's switching to Andante like that. Unlike Andante, apparently. In fact, if Andante's confusion about it

is

genuine, that would actually look like a town tell on Andante to me; but I'm not willing to call that it is.

Bad reaction. VOTE: GrandpaMo.

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im pushing more of the jv and pooky narrative today and can vote skitter if i want to. there is still like multiple days left as pooky said and i want to optimize my time lmao

...Good reaction, I think.

UNVOTE: GrandpaMo

I believe my skitter read has to remain undecided for now.

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@pooky

: Is your scum read on Mo/Jackson genuine -- even to say there's only one between them?

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@pooky

: Is your scum read on Mo/Jackson genuine -- even to say there's only one between them?

yea ofc I only do genuine scumreads

Same. After all, there is nothing to lose.

Fizz and Mo are town, I think.

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The mafia.

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VOTE: GeorgeBailey
just a friendly prod ofc....i think you should pick up this game.
its taking you a long time to do so.

since it's a newbie game, need a link to the wiki?

@pooky:
Does townreading Fizz change things for you?

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I'm hesitant to out my exact read on Pooky, but don't worry, I'm not ignoring him, I just have a very strong read that I'm not sure I want to out yet.

A quick run down of where my head is.

Andante - Town
Grandpa - Initial scum lean, but how Jackson jumped on the Grandpa fos is messing with my head, so I'm not too sure here right now.
Fizz - I'm not entirely sure right now, you had a line I kinda liked, my entrance read on you was real though, felt like maf.
Hand - I genuinely can't read Hand, the posts are way too analytical, not really about interactions?? idk, Hand is a later read
Ahri - Scum, unless Ahri decides to make an effort to try, they are either scum, or town playing towards scum alignment
Skitter - Scum lean maybe.. very slight lean - your reads this game are like complete opposite of mine, which feels weird, you TRed grandpa, then flipped when I called Grandpa maf, so it's like, idkk, could definitely still be town though!! I know I'll have a solid read on you later, you're not today's elim. I also have a reason I tr you.
Pooky - I will not out my stance on you yet. I'm 100% confident, but me outing this info right now is not helpful to town. You're also not going out the door today.
George - I have 0 read off the top of my head, I can't recall your lines.
Jackson - You got a little defensive over my entrance thing to direct the game somewhere, it wasn't even a legit push sooo. I hate the grandpa read from you lmao, I want your interactions with others.

TLDR- I'm just ready to end today with an Ahri vote

I really like this. More reason to town read you in my opinion. And yes I did question how many scum because this is my first time playing forum mafia and I was confused on where the setup was. I lowkey even thought this was going to be a regular opened setup and not actually closed. I now know there is always 2 mafia in the 9player newbie games. (I am not using the "I am new card" trust me, I know that can be a pain but I am willing to contribute and give other reads.)

Onto more clarification of my reads: I still scumread JV, and it isn't even the fact of what we were going about (I mean yea I obviously scumread them at that time) but there is even more; just lack of deep reasoning and logic given by other people here on our specific interaction. This means really giving just giving no reads or any clarity on reads just based on this specific interaction. For example as Andante said, Ahri didn't give any reads on it besides sheeping of what pooky said on how JV seemed more towny in the interaction. Like why? Give me a good reason on why JV seemed more towny that makes me want to trust your judgment? As town, I want to know why you townread other people (I am not even being biased as you know I have townread two people who scumread me in the beginning, I currently still townread Andante). Give me then just "Oh they are towny". That lack of interest of defense or even just looking at it and giving reasoning and logic, just makes JV more scum imo. If I am assuming JV is scum, then their most likely partner is Pooky here. If pooky flips town, then it is Skitter. If JV flips town, then it is Fizz. I don't know if that is good logic, but based on what I have seen and the interactions I have witnessed that is the most likely scenario here. But I doubt JV flips town here.

lmao

yeah might as well ask for a modkill and never return

no wonder you were always one step ahead of me, i didn't get it

i'm sorry everyone but i also think it was legendarily hilarious for everyone involved!

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even me, ultimately, bc i didnt get you were all mocking me bc i was trying to decipher a puzzle i was setting up for myself

this is real satire

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Oh shit, I think my #349 has been worded badly. Sometimes I do that. ("Distance. I don't like cozying up." for instance was a reminder to myself about the role, not a real self-description)

"might as well ask for a modkill" is missing the pronoun

I

, not

you

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The "I fucking hate this game" line is outdated btw, it was when I was still assuming this to be an authentic game, but with a meta I hadn't caught up on until half the town had covertly aligned against me. I think I love this game and I think you've all loved it too, or you would have stopped me earlier. Right? Just the facts and logic.

Since I am the only scum, you were all town, and you were

all

amazing. Even if that might be "brownie points" (hey, it's the wiki that says to have your scumbuddy's back). I'll have more to say a bit later. If you want.

VOTE: Ahri

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Yeah, I realize more yet now.

The "catgirl vs. eurosnob" idea was just idiotic. It was a shit idea to suggest it, no less so as "theatre". Nothing else to say there. I didn't mean it as "emotional~ random dumb! vs. analytical", as you presented it. Or I would probably have noticed all of you using it sooner.

I shouldn't have said anything about the character of Ahri, ever, not knowing her.

If I called Ahri a "magical [!] 8-ball" on thread, that was just mafia misdirection and not my actual judgment of Ahri.
If I called her a "deep-space oracle" or "vig shot D1" backstage, it was meant as "energy", because I'd read that you should boost your scumbuddy, not as her being "random" at all. I've said here that I didn't think she was being random.

But again -- I shouldn't have said shit about someone I don't know. Who hates me now. Rightly.

"Spewing lies."
It

was

my first online mafia game. I've lurked elsewhere (probably also not understanding much), and I've played irl (years before), and I've inhaled the wiki far too much and believed in it far too much -- yeah.
I drew scum, was anxious to be "proactive", and always tell my partner all my thoughts to avoid cornering them into an impossible situation by miscoordination. Went well. I realize I gave too many "instructions" to Ahri, all that micromanagement. They weren't meant as commands, they really just were what I thought.

I did try to read the thread and make sense of it. Then you all mock that I don't know where to begin engaging if the entire thread is always "scum reading" what I'm doing.

"Being aggressive."
You were setting me up for that by being intentionally stupid in two different ways. There's also parts where I called the sudden counterstrategies or scum pair calls strikingly smart.

@skitter

"What do you think of Andante?"
On the private thread? Astonishing scumdar, not good at selling it, and play early on that I called newbish or terrible while being a newb myself. Yeah, that's arrogant, though if you've seen people give these tells, it happens. You all made a point of using intentionally terrible scum tells.

On this thread? I thought that their intentionally obfuscating posts were annoying me, also irl for saying that their style is annoying me. Sure, I get that Ahri thinks the same about me, but I never called

her

style annoying. It is precisely nothing like what Andante used. Ahri used her own style throughout the thread as I thought she would, not this "like whatever idk how it's even, i'll iso them tonight" -- that's precisely why I

liked

(what I thought was) Ahri's style.

I'm sorry, all of you.

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...but I also said that Andante "was kicking off the catgirl vs. eurosnob discussion", so maybe I'm actually more idiotic and biased than I'd thought.

I don't think I think women are dumber than men. Or less analytical. Or more emotional.

And the style on the private thread is different because I'm not really "analytical". I was trying to play it like that. But yeah. Very weak analysis as shown.

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I didn't want to hurt you all.

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Town Ahri could have D1 vig shot me.

I've heard of setups where you aren't always the role that you think you've been assigned. Or nobody knows how many mafia there are.

I wasn't lying when I said it was my first game of mafia online. There are mafia variants maybe that can be played on a rainy Sunday afternoon. 3-20 min. I've been in some of these, I think, they're always full of newbies though.

No way is Ahri an alt account, but that's neither here nor there.

I can't believe how it wasn't reasonable for me to read the entirety of Newb2057 when I heard of it, or remember Ahri's history better. I am sorry for that as well. It's what, 45 pages in total? Something around those lines.

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No ofc I'm joking.

ahri is my alt shitpost account. I've been had.

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im not voting anyone. i explained my reads.

im pushing more of the jv and pooky narrative today and can vote skitter if i want to. there is still like multiple days left as pooky said and i want to optimize my time lmao

I mean, I still don't get it

VOTE: Hand of Glory