Open 808: The Council Has Spoken

[T-Bone]

What if I told you, I don't know what a heal tag is??

[T-Bone]

The real question is why aren't you healing me already, as I just admitted I am broken?

[T-Bone]

I'm secretly a bit of a T-Bone fan

that's great and all, but you can't possibly knpw whether he is town or scum yet. Best to unvote.

Battle Mage and I are Masons.

[T-Bone]

I'll vote for any council that contains myself.

[T-Bone]

I'm also townlocking Artemiana for now. Still feel good about BM.

So in the interest of that.

HEAL: Battle Mage, T-Bone, Artemiana

I feel good about that team. Nice work 6 pages in.

[T-Bone]

I'm generally against plans because it fosters fake cooperation. I'd rather people independently play their best. Yes, it means cooperation is harder, but it also means it is more genuine (and thus less prone to manipulation).

[T-Bone]

I'm generally against plans because it fosters fake cooperation. I'd rather people independently play their best. Yes, it means cooperation is harder, but it also means it is more genuine (and thus less prone to manipulation).

what are your reads so far?

I have 6 posts. You honestly can't find me expressing any reads?

Vote: mozamis

Caught scum.

[T-Bone]

OH lol he votes me a couple of posts later. Yeah, lock scum I think.

[T-Bone]

T-Bone: Disagree with plan
Almost50: mozamis
Enchant: Nono
yessiree: No Vote.
Artemiana: Battle Mage, Mozamis, Raya36
Nono: Artemiana
mozamis: Almost50
Battle Mage: Raya36(?)
Raya36: Battle Mage

BM (2), Raya36 (2), Mozamis (2) Nono (1) Almost50 (1) Artemiana (1)


That's right?
yessire if you agree, please vote.

I mean if you want my pick, I've already voted for a three person council so...

[T-Bone]

Artemiana is part gut read part something I cannot explain. BM is convenience for me. He hasn't done anything scummy (nor have most players at this point). I'm pretty strong on Artemiana, I could take or leave most of the playerlist as my 3rd councilmember.

[T-Bone]

Artemiana is part gut read part something I cannot explain. BM is convenience for me. He hasn't done anything scummy (nor have most players at this point). I'm pretty strong on Artemiana, I could take or leave most of the playerlist as my 3rd councilmember.

Who wouldn't you take from the playerlist then?

mozamis!

[T-Bone]

what the HECKA, it ate my paragraph

oh well, TLDR - weird interaction between tbone-mozzy that ends in mutual SR but no real intention to get each other SR'ed by others

Are you his partner? Because I have both so far 'asked people not to put him into a council' and have been very clearly discussing with Raya this scumread.

[T-Bone]

Page 10 is just super weird as a progression. BM talks about scumreading yesiree on page 9, and now with the cover of mozamis on page 10 (who has expressed a real read to his credit) yesiree suddenly chimes in to shade me out of nowhere?

It took yesiree an awfully long time to go from 'i'm not answering enchant cause my name was spelled wrong' in #230, to a chain of mozamis affirming his town reads to shading me in #237.

Contrast these two players, actually. I seem pretty top of mind for mozamis as his professed top scumread. I am yesiree's only scumread (apparently), but he doesn't make that a priority?

[T-Bone]

Can we keep yesiree and mozamis off of all councils, please?

[T-Bone]

Spoiler: really weird interaction between tbone and mozamis feat. TBONE

I'm secretly a bit of a T-Bone fan

that's great and all, but you can't possibly knpw whether he is town or scum yet. Best to unvote.

Battle Mage and I are Masons.

I'm generally against plans because it fosters fake cooperation. I'd rather people independently play their best. Yes, it means cooperation is harder, but it also means it is more genuine (and thus less prone to manipulation).

what are your reads so far?

I have 6 posts. You honestly can't find me expressing any reads?

Vote: mozamis

TLDR, weird interaction in what appears to be distancing that ends in mutual SR but no real intent to get each other SR'ed by the rest of town
Caught scum.

OH lol he votes me a couple of posts later. Yeah, lock scum I think.

Spoiler: Cont. feat. mozzy

I'm generally against plans because it fosters fake cooperation. I'd rather people independently play their best. Yes, it means cooperation is harder, but it also means it is more genuine (and thus less prone to manipulation).

what are your reads so far?

So far Enchant, Almost, BM, Yes town.
Arte prob town.
Tbone worries me a bit.

So scum are in:
Nono, TBone
lol i have town read everyone else
game solved then!

VOTE: T BONE

What even IS this post? Can someone explain this? Is this not the epitome of 'posting dumbshit for the sake of posting dumbshit'??

You've discovered that mozamis didn't read any of this game before expressing a scumread on me, and then me pointing it out. Congratulations? Post #189 is really the biggest slam dunk of the game so far in terms of the progression of this game. (although #251 is a strong contender)

[T-Bone]

Something that was so important you had to make a joke to refuse to cooperate with Enchant first and then sit on it for awhile before asking the thread permission to scumread me.

Was that the point you realized that mozamis was already voting me and thus you felt safe enough to fake this read?

[T-Bone]

To mozamis' credit (and something I have to reevaluate in light of the absolute dumpster fire of progression yesiree just displayed) his progression to scum-read and cast a vote on me was clear, if very performative and scummy. It's like yesiree saw the absolute scumfest mozamis' progression of #170 to #174 and went 'hold my beer. I can do this but way worse!'

Yesiree's posts between #230 and #246 are just a masterpiece of scumposting.

[T-Bone]

I'm posting from work (I live in Asia ATM), got dragged away for a sec. But whatevs bro, didn't know jokes are outlawed

Deflecting by not addressing the issue I am raising.

[T-Bone]

For a 10 page game, I think I've done well to lay something out that makes sense. I need someone to check me and make sure I'm not falling into confirmation bias. Raya??

[T-Bone]

BM actually voted for a new council that didn't include me because he's a bad mason buddy.

[T-Bone]

Enchant, can you ignore your plan for a bit and provide some game analysis and/or some reads?

[T-Bone]

I can.

Why you want to know exactly? I doesh't have strong minds right now.

Dealer's choice. Some reads, posts that stand out to you that might indicate alignment, something.

[T-Bone]

Well, Tbone has amped their contributions which kooks town. Leaving me with one scumread lol
Ah well early day one, Ican liv with that. Still dont really want T on council just in case my early gut read is valid.
BM, Almost, Yessiree council? Yesirees "Moz and Tbone are bussing scum" looks paranoid town to me.

Friend, you don't get to get off scoff free.

When you had said you scumread me you had asked what my reads were.

Except I had expressed townreads on Artemiana and BM in post #147, about a page before you made that charge.

It's not like I had a million posts and this was a one off comment. I had

6 posts

. SIX POSTS! 1 of them contained a read. A full 17% of my posts! (heck in #120 I called BM my mason, which at least jokingly expressed some sort of read). You had no ability to glance at any of those 6 posts to find out what my reads were?

So your progression went from wondering if I had any reads, to deciding I had no reads, saying that I 'worry you' (presumably for not having reads) and then you cast a vote!

So what happened? I think you didn't read a thing and pulled this completely out of your ass. Am I wrong?

[T-Bone]

My friend, I just want you to do it.

[T-Bone]

I'm generally against plans because it fosters fake cooperation. I'd rather people independently play their best. Yes, it means cooperation is harder, but it also means it is more genuine (and thus less prone to manipulation).

what are your reads so far?

I have 6 posts. You honestly can't find me expressing any reads?

Vote: mozamis

Caught scum.

Mod for what it's worth I voted mozamis in this post.

[T-Bone]

So are waiting for Bm to pick another member?

Yes. And he went VLA, nice combo.

So you can, i dunno, find scum/someone who you really want in council/do nothing, at your preference.

I reading game right now to see, who is faking town

Still waiting Enchant.

[T-Bone]

Fine. I want to say i wasted all day on this, but actually i wasted time on other videogames and did this in 30 mins. Mafia is hard.

First off, this game has been on for several days and we're 14 pages in, I don't know why you are being so indignant because we asked you to provide content. This whole post reads of indignation and that's not going to get you far. Are you indignant because you have to create fake reads because you are mafia? I'm starting to wonder.

8. T-Bone. Townreading Artemiana for some reason (what this reason again) and agreing for being in Council with her without hesitation (come with reason "I feel they are town" later). Well, it's looking like you really don't care as long as you are in. Which is extremally strange, as townie you should be care about who in council with you, because Council power is useless with mafia.

The reason is gut and for reasons I can't explain, and we might as well start somewhere with reads. Thus I want her in a council with me because A: I know I'm town and B: I want people I read as town on the council with me. So how can I both want Artemiana, and also somehow not care who's on the council? I think I've been clear that I want people I town read on a council with someone who is confirmed town to me.

[T-Bone]

So what happened? I think you didn't read a thing and pulled this completely out of your ass. Am I wrong?

It was a really early provisional read. Your early posts were lacking in any real content. Re-read the beginning of the game. It's quite straightforward.

It's not straight forward considering I dismantled your read with the facts of reading the game. So try again. Your read was based on a verifiably false reason and I'm not willing to let that go without a good explanation.

[T-Bone]

Raya, commit to it or don't. Don't play that game with me.

[T-Bone]

with someone who is confirmed town to me.

Hold on, who confirmed? BM?

I am confirmed town to myself. That's what I meant. I want to be on the council because I know I'm town.

[T-Bone]

That's yourself..

You asked for his townreads, people put themselves on town lists all the time, that's hardly a fair criticism.

[T-Bone]

The reason is gut and for reasons I can't explain,

my worry was that y ou might be friends with her and so start off biased.

Don't know em and have never played with em before, actually.

[T-Bone]

VOTE: Yesiree

Please notice me senpai-brass

[T-Bone]

Any chance of a quick compromise on the council? I will take Raya in if you guys drop one of BM/Artem. My fear is we "might" be making BOTH Scum unkillable today, which would mean we are killing Town regardless after we finalize the council as it is.

I won't even dictate and alternative. Just pick one of Moz/T-B/yes and place them in one of BM/Artem spots.

I'll compromise with you. I've made my stance on wanting to be on the council clear, I'm flexible with whom I can be on it with. What do you want?

[T-Bone]

HEAL: : Raya36, Battle Mage, T-Bone

[T-Bone]

Lol still failed at the heal tag slightly, I'm too boomer for this game

[T-Bone]

UNVOTE:

HEAL: BM/Raya/T-B

BM will probably come back and hammer the top council anyways, oh wells

I get that we are closing in on the deadline. With that said...

I'm supposedly your top scumread. Any scum on the Council makes it functionally useless. So...?

[T-Bone]

I'll take credit for stonewalling the game to get myself on the council thank you very much. You can shove any insinuations that my scumbuddy got me on the council. I wouldn't need help in that situation, I am capable enough to do it on my own.

[T-Bone]

So, where is the scum motivation for swapping Arte with TBone?

Full town council and TBone is scum is something. Maybe Arte is on the right track and they want to replace her with someone that might be farther off.

Actually, this really bothers me now that I think about it more.

I wasn't the last minute addition to The Council. RAYA was the last minute addition. For most of the day the council was myself, BM, and Arte. Then I was removed in favor of Raya. Raya was just added on Sunday, when for the first week it was the aforementioned trio of myself, BM, and Arte.

This is an odd conclusion for Raya to draw, because despite the last minute votes to add me back on the council, I was one of the leading vote getters for most of the day.

So why does Raya even voice this nonsense?

Who was the player to push to get Raya on this council?

[T-Bone]

So, where is the scum motivation for swapping Arte with TBone?

Full town council and TBone is scum is something. Maybe Arte is on the right track and they want to replace her with someone that might be farther off.

Actually, this really bothers me now that I think about it more.

I wasn't the last minute addition to The Council. RAYA was the last minute addition. For most of the day the council was myself, BM, and Arte. Then I was removed in favor of Raya. Raya was just added on Sunday, when for the first week it was the aforementioned trio of myself, BM, and Arte.

This is an odd conclusion for Raya to draw, because despite the last minute votes to add me back on the council, I was one of the leading vote getters for most of the day.

So why does Raya even voice this nonsense?

Who was the player to push to get Raya on this council?

This is misleading. I was part of the council decided by Enchant's plan. It went BM, Art, me. We were supposed to stick to that plan. Then A50 pushed for you instead of Art which gained traction. At that point we were stalling the council which was really limiting the time for deciding the elimination. I was not the last minute addition.

Enchant's plan was not that significant imo.

[T-Bone]

Although, that may be bias on me. Every time the plan discussion came up I knew it was nonsense and paid zero attention to it. I guess I can see why someone else would feel it was significant. I guess it's important to decide who was really engaging with this plan vs people who said just enough so they wouldn't be bogged down by it. I wonder which camp you fall in, Raya? Honest opinion before I backread and find the answer?

[T-Bone]

I disagree with that assessment, but I can see why you would think that (or at least say you would think that).

But let me ask again directly. How central was this plan to your Day 1?

[T-Bone]

Okay I get you.

[T-Bone]

Considering I insisted above all else that I be on the Council, no.

[T-Bone]

Intent in case we get close to deadline with no progress.

I don't have a feeling one way or another on A50, I could take or leave this lim.

[T-Bone]

over half the players hadn't checked in, in about a day and you hammered. Okay.

[T-Bone]

I think probably the same council works for me, but I understand if those on the outside would want to shuffle it up. Consider my council vote on Raya, BM, and T-Bone for now.

[T-Bone]

It's a high risk, high reward play to get partner T-bone to get a seat into the council over townie rookie goddess because come tonight, scum will now have insight to what the council is planning on doing-which makes anything they do invalid

Let's not forget that this had happened yesterday.

Please don't insult me.

[T-Bone]

What do you think about A50 kicking me off council and that being the catalyst for the A50 elimination?

Again please stop giving credit to A50 for something I did. In addition to being insulting, it's also untrue.

[T-Bone]

Since I don't see any reason not to claim our results, I shall.

Last night we tracked Yessiree and protected me. so either scum no-killed or tried to kill me. But Yessirree went nowhere, so I'm bumping them slightly down the list of suspects. We should've tested whether some players would have thought of the no-kill option (i.e. if Yesiree-scum would have killed last night, the result could clear them). Nothing really worth sharing from the PT although we had a good discussion. Main point of interest was T-Bone coming up with an odd idea for the night actions which would have guaranteed us no information (not that we achieved much better) and Raya being pretty balanced and moderate.

Notwithstanding, I'm going to VOTE: T-Bone

HEAL: Battle Mage, Artemiana, Enchant

Holy shit are you actually scum?

[T-Bone]

HEAL: Raya, Enchant, T-Bone

Vote: Battle Mage

This is probably the solve? I think Battle Mage just outed himself in 586 and I'll explain why in a moment. I see a flurry of posting action and want to get it out there.

[T-Bone]

Since I don't see any reason not to claim our results, I shall.

Last night we tracked Yessiree and protected me. so either scum no-killed or tried to kill me. But Yessirree went nowhere, so I'm bumping them slightly down the list of suspects. We should've tested whether some players would have thought of the no-kill option (i.e. if Yesiree-scum would have killed last night, the result could clear them). Nothing really worth sharing from the PT although we had a good discussion. Main point of interest was T-Bone coming up with an odd idea for the night actions which would have guaranteed us no information (not that we achieved much better) and Raya being pretty balanced and moderate.

Notwithstanding, I'm going to VOTE: T-Bone

HEAL: Battle Mage, Artemiana, Enchant

Let me share with ya'll the "weird plan" BM is trying to discredit and why I think he outed himself.

First off, after deliberation, we went ultimately, Battle Mage's choices for night actions. Tracking yessiree, protecting Battle Mage. Not my favorite course of action (as you'll see why in a second).

I wanted to protect no one, precisely to prevent what has happened to open Day 2 (WIFOM over the no-kill). I wanted to protect no one and track one of myself/Raya/BM. Why did I want this course of action? Because if someone got killed, it cleared whomever we tracked. If no one got killed, then it basically confirms one of us as scum (which from my perspective as town is an auto-win on Day 2 or 3).

Now of course, there are risks to that plan. One of you all could decide to no-kill. I felt that was highly unlikely given the information we had (namely 1 scum vs 7 townies, no-killing does nothing for your win condition). But there are risks with every plan.

Anyway from my perspective, BM was against a plan that could have potentially either cleared myself or Raya, or confirmed that one of the three of us was scum to the rest of you. To be fair this plan wasn't Raya's preference either, so I won't speak for her whether she would have been okay with this idea.

The fact that BM is trying to discredit me based on conversations that none of you can see is ridiculous. That's not something town would do. BM is also trying to explain away the kill by saying he got targeted (another reason I wanted to protect no one so no one could claim this). The Doctor ability in this set-up is a red herring, since three people know the outcome of that action each night.

I feel like BM's shade of my plan, calling it weird and saying it would provide no information, comes from BM understanding that his plan would provide no information (and was designed as such to provide no info). I feel like his goal is to make you think scum tried to kill him so he can earn a soft clear for a few days. That is what I get from his posts, especially the one I quoted.

---

Raya, I don't mean to misrepresent and say this was entirely BM's idea, as you had wanted to use the track and protect in a similar manner, but I have to call out what I see.

[T-Bone]

To be clear, Raya proposed it, BM locked it in.

[T-Bone]

problem with 602 (above) is t-bone's no doc plan is not bad, getting info on whether it's no-kill or not is useful,, it's just not useful for much else
painting it as that piviotal,, don't think it should be, leans scum
this i don't understand,, perhaps explained by perspective difference

If no one got killed, then it basically confirms one of us as scum

Nice job hammering town. Guess we know who's scum after all!

[T-Bone]

Unvote

Raya might be right, no reason for BM to no-kill, he's better than that.

[T-Bone]

problem with 602 (above) is t-bone's no doc plan is not bad, getting info on whether it's no-kill or not is useful,, it's just not useful for much else
painting it as that piviotal,, don't think it should be, leans scum
this i don't understand,, perhaps explained by perspective difference

If no one got killed, then it basically confirms one of us as scum

I think I've explained this above now, but to reiterate it makes zero sense in this setup, and this situation to NOT use the tracker ability when it is effectively a cop. I'm less precious about the protective, but it does seem a bit counter-intuitive to give scum a free-kill.

Are you trying to suggest I didn't want to use the track?

[T-Bone]

As expected, mafia just skipped.

Well. We can get around 3 free elims, before setup turn in vanilla. So, let's choose Council and kill someone.

Yeah I think that's likely, but not guaranteed. Although I think there was some marginal sorting value in not spelling it out.

For that to actually happen, 4 players will have to throw the game first, and the 5th player insane enough to hammer both

throw the game is an interesting choice of phrase.

I'd be ok with any of these councils

HEAL: BM, TBone, Enchant
HEAL: Raya, TBone, Enchant
HEAL: Raya, BM, TBone
HEAL: Raya, BM, Enchant

why Raya-TBone-Enchant? Nothing about yesterday or last night makes me feel better about TBone alignment-wise.

T-Bone knew who we as a council chose to track and heal. That means scum!T-Bone knew he was not being tracked and was safe to make a kill. Scum!T-Bone also knew who to avoid because he knew who was being healed.

1) T-Bone is scum and had a perfect clear and safe shot but chose not to for the towncred because it doesn't make sense to not take that shot in his position for any other reason. Especially knowing he may not be in the same position again.

2) T-Bone is simply just town.

I don't think that's an unreasonable inference to make, but the fact you're making it, is itself vindication of the strategy in scenario 1. I feel a no-kill makes marginally more sense for T-Bone-scum than you-scum, because TBone was desperately needing the towncred after how Day 1 played out, whereas you weren't (and could afford to make the kill).

So I think your logic speaks more to a T-Bone who is aiming to make it to Day 3/4 only, but not a T-Bone who wants to win.

Regardless, I'm hard declining any Council with T-Bone (or anyone off-wagon) in it. I'm open to hearing alternative pitches on the elim today.

Yeah, I can agree there. If T-Bone actually is scum then you're right that he has the highest chance of the 3 of us to no kill

There is literally no scenario where scum!bone no-kills if I'm not being tracked.

[T-Bone]

I have the lowest chance of the entire playerlist lol. No killing is stupid and scum is stupid for doing it.

[T-Bone]

What even is that post?

[T-Bone]

Please feel some deep shame for that post after I flip and never do something shameful like that again lol

[T-Bone]

Because prolonging the game when you are solo scum is Very Bad (tm).

[T-Bone]

I am mostly reacting to you using the word 'slipup' to describe one of my posts. I'm part offended, and part aghast. It's like when Arte was trying to give A50 credit for getting me on the council. I just expect better from the people I play with. Almost50 was so helpless he needed someone's permission to vote differently and I gave it to em.

You do with this information what you will. But if you think I would slip in any game as any alignment you're insane. There is intentionality into everything I post.

Can't say the same for you. Don't hide, vote me. Have some direction in your posts.

[T-Bone]

problem with 602 (above) is t-bone's no doc plan is not bad, getting info on whether it's no-kill or not is useful,, it's just not useful for much else
painting it as that piviotal,, don't think it should be, leans scum
this i don't understand,, perhaps explained by perspective difference

If no one got killed, then it basically confirms one of us as scum

I think I've explained this above now, but to reiterate it makes zero sense in this setup, and this situation to NOT use the tracker ability when it is effectively a cop. I'm less precious about the protective, but it does seem a bit counter-intuitive to give scum a free-kill.

Are you trying to suggest I didn't want to use the track?

I'm not "trying to suggest" anything - you have already acknowledged in this thread that you wanted to use the track on somebody within the council, which is tantamount (well, not quite, but almost) to not using it.

VOTE: Battle Mage

Speed eliminate this please. Absolute insanity, this is scum.

[T-Bone]

What a shame you're complicit in BM's bollocks. Post #669 is BM stunting on the rest of you. Y'all can eliminate who you want since we can't eliminate him till Day 3 now.

[T-Bone]

I just...I apologize for being frustrated.

[T-Bone]

Right now its 1:7

Last night, it was 1:7

If a kill happened today we would be at 1:6

If scum kill, they reduce the amount of eliminations needed to win by half. If yessus was killed last night,

Tbone
BM
Raya

Would probably all be suspect

But

1:6
1:4
1:2

The scum on council could safely eliminate the other two before entering Lylo

Or they could eliminate off council once before Elo and they have a solid chance to win at Elo

What makes you think scum will kill tonight?

[T-Bone]

lol you couldn't catch me for the right reasons, let alone the wrong ones

[T-Bone]

Yessiree was tracked to no one

[T-Bone]

Vote: Nono

Probably the only other player at this time I can see as scum who isn't BM.

[T-Bone]

I looked into the Moz/A50 interactions and idk, they seem almost too close to be scumbuddies. They both were pretty adamant about wanting the other in the council right from the start but that seems too obvious? Would scum not want to distance at all?

Well it seems no one else subscribes to that, since people are lol claiming that Almost50 got me on the council and that's why I am scum. tbh I should be confirmed town based on that interaction, because A50 was waiting for someone they knew to be town to give them permission to change some votes.

But alas here we are, with that interaction, the fact that I didn't quick hammer, and the lack of no-kill.... with practically confirmed town T-Bone at L-2. (sorry just a tad bit arrogant I know, but that's where my head is at.)

But to answer your question, I think scum will distance, if they can, but they aren't going to go out of their way to fake that kind of distancing, you know? If you're thinking Moz for example, is he the kind of player to be direct with a scumbuddy? I know from this game he's the type to both throw stuff at a wall to see what sticks, but also back down when challenged (I don't mean that as an insult Moz). Does that lend itself to purposeful interaction with a scum buddy?

[T-Bone]

Nothing but bad reasons in that post. BM is trying to distract from the fact that he's not town. Whether he is scum or 3rd impostering is up to you.

[T-Bone]

yeah, coz:

The last thing T-Bone-scum needs is more conftowns, which would have resulted if he killed (yessirree would be conftown). If T-Bone is scum, the smart play for him would be to no-kill if he has designs on actually winning.
T-Bone was advocating for himself to be tracked at one stage during the night, which is consistent with him not planning to actually kill.
He's the only player who I recall really pushed the idea that scum wouldn't no kill (which is a nice wrinkle to make it seem unlikely that he did so).
If scum didn't no kill, they tried to kill me. So either scum no-killed or I'm town. Nonetheless, T-Bone is pushing me as scum (which implies scum no-killed, meaning his original logic was invalid, but he refuses to acknowledge that).
And why is T-Bone-scum motivated to elim me? T-Bone-scum is within a pool of 3 (non-A50 voters) which likely contains the final scum, and needs a mis-elim or 2 outside of that to have a chance. In contrast, pushing me makes no sense for T-Bone-town who is a highly experienced and capable player, and not somebody who would be over-thinking or over-playing here.
T-Bone's attitude (a pre-occupation with protecting himself, rather than a meaningful focus on scumhunting) is not what I'd expect from town in a game where a win is virtually guaranteed.
There is no motivation for A50 to push T-Bone so hard into the council if they aren't scum together, given A50 barely did anything else of note in the game. A50 is a pretty straightforward and direct player, so fairly unlikely it was a double-bluff. It's possible A50 would use that as a means to buddy up to a townie who could be manipulated, but T-Bone feels pretty low down the list of players who would fit that profile.
T-Bone was very keen last night to keep Raya and I from criticising him the following day, despite his plan which didn't stand up to scrutiny.
I don't think T-Bone-town pushes so hard to get on the council, only to then want to not use the abilities.

I don't even think Battle Mage buys this nonsense. Grade A Bullshit. I'll just go dash for dash.

The last thing T-Bone-scum needs is more conftowns, which would have resulted if he killed (yessirree would be conftown). If T-Bone is scum, the smart play for him would be to no-kill if he has designs on actually winning.

- Ridiculous, a kill last night is the only way to win if A50 is my scumbuddy.

T-Bone was advocating for himself to be tracked at one stage during the night, which is consistent with him not planning to actually kill.

Also dumb as shit because if I was tracked and no-killed that would gaurantee one of BM/Raya/Bone is scum and I'd get eliminated in that pool. It's almost like BM is projecting his own choice not to kill onto someone else.

Remember this when I flip town

. I would like every player to make a note of this if you make the mistake of eliminating me please.

He's the only player who I recall really pushed the idea that scum wouldn't no kill (which is a nice wrinkle to make it seem unlikely that he did so).

I underestimated how much of a coward scum would be. No killing is 100% the wrong move, it is a game losing move for scum. (unless of course ya'll keep letting BM dodge the elimination past today)

If scum didn't no kill, they tried to kill me. So either scum no-killed or I'm town. Nonetheless, T-Bone is pushing me as scum (which implies scum no-killed, meaning his original logic was invalid, but he refuses to acknowledge that).

My dude, if scum tried to kill you, and if you

really thought that

, you wouldn't be pushing me as scum.

This is a BM scumslip.

And why is T-Bone-scum motivated to elim me? T-Bone-scum is within a pool of 3 (non-A50 voters) which likely contains the final scum, and needs a mis-elim or 2 outside of that to have a chance. In contrast, pushing me makes no sense for T-Bone-town who is a highly experienced and capable player, and not somebody who would be over-thinking or over-playing here.

The way to put me into that pool was to track me and force me to no-kill. But since you knew I was town, you decided against that so that when you pushed my mis-elim you can go 'sorry guys, I guess scum was just too afraid to kill'. You could have guaranteed my elimination by using the track on me last night if you truly thought I was scum, but you didn't, because it would then make 100% necessary your elimination as well. I mean, your elimination is still 100% necessary after I flip town. So...you should have made a kill if you wanted to pin this on me. Sucks to suck.

T-Bone's attitude (a pre-occupation with protecting himself, rather than a meaningful focus on scumhunting) is not what I'd expect from town in a game where a win is virtually guaranteed.

I don't care about protecting myself, I care about catching scum. In order to catch scum I cannot let scum get away with a miselimination without consequences. These people NEED to eliminate you tomorrow, and thus I need to break down bit by bit why everything in your case is scum motivated. Just like this point is. You are so preoccupied by trying to set up "guys I'm sorry T-Bone was so scummy" without even securing my miselimination. You made a huge mistake by not doing a kill and you're scrambling.

There is no motivation for A50 to push T-Bone so hard into the council if they aren't scum together, given A50 barely did anything else of note in the game. A50 is a pretty straightforward and direct player, so fairly unlikely it was a double-bluff. It's possible A50 would use that as a means to buddy up to a townie who could be manipulated, but T-Bone feels pretty low down the list of players who would fit that profile.

Here we go again, more verifiably not true things regarding A50. A50 did not get me on the council. A50 was looking for a townie to give him permission to do something, and I gave him permission. A50 was trying to climb into my pocket. Scumbuddies do not do this.

T-Bone was very keen last night to keep Raya and I from criticising him the following day, despite his plan which didn't stand up to scrutiny.

My plan would have produced confirmed scum in you so...it was actually a great plan. Your plan is the one where you get to try to wiggle out of the elimination pool. A healthy reminder that BM needs to be the Day 3 elimination.

I don't think T-Bone-town pushes so hard to get on the council, only to then want to not use the abilities.

Look at this flat out lie! Raya can even verify this! Town doesn't lie like this! @Raya please remember BM keeps repeating this lie. Please confirm it in case BM kills you tonight.

[T-Bone]

I looked into the Moz/A50 interactions and idk, they seem almost too close to be scumbuddies. They both were pretty adamant about wanting the other in the council right from the start but that seems too obvious? Would scum not want to distance at all?

Well it seems no one else subscribes to that, since people are lol claiming that Almost50 got me on the council and that's why I am scum. tbh I should be confirmed town based on that interaction, because A50 was waiting for someone they knew to be town to give them permission to change some votes.

But alas here we are, with that interaction, the fact that I didn't quick hammer, and the lack of no-kill.... with practically confirmed town T-Bone at L-2. (sorry just a tad bit arrogant I know, but that's where my head is at.)

But to answer your question, I think scum will distance, if they can, but they aren't going to go out of their way to fake that kind of distancing, you know? If you're thinking Moz for example, is he the kind of player to be direct with a scumbuddy? I know from this game he's the type to both throw stuff at a wall to see what sticks, but also back down when challenged (I don't mean that as an insult Moz). Does that lend itself to purposeful interaction with a scum buddy?

The thing is there's enough wifom around scum!you no-killing to earn towncred and to avoid confirming a townie that it's still possible you're scum. And your plan for the actions wasn't that good which also adds to my suspicions.

More wifom I'm thinking about now though. Does scum!T-Bone who is at E-2 push me away from scumreading potential miselim!Moz?

Raya, for what it's worth, I am a straight forward player. WIFOM is a bad tool and I don't set out to create it. Do with that information what you will.

As for Moz, I am generally convinced that BM is scum, but I can't do anything about it. While I think Moz could conceivably no-kill, I'd have to rank him under Nono. I didn't want to harp on it, but Nono has 14 posts and is very passive and also not doing anything productive. I feel like if I am wrong on BM, then Nono would be the one. I know a couple of people said 'but Nono voted A50'...but so what? He voted A50 and never posted again. Look at this.

I will think about it, just can say about Nono: He probably will continue being nonactive/imitate so. Not sure if we really should kill him for this though. Like... I want. But is this will be worth it? How possible he is mafia?

0%) am town

not mad, but disappointed my council didn't get through
wondering why there's paranoia on art,, she feels good, to me, nothing pings me
cow is town,, from my pov, would have kept me as viable lim, not townlean me,, of course, this only reinforced if i die

thinking almost, almost has played with me before,, why am i scummy, almost?

VOTE: almost

Is this someone who was convinced A50 was scum? Maybe. To me, if we're looking like partner associations, this is classic 'let me vote my scumbuddy and ask them to explain themselves so I can unvote later when I like their explanation'. But then Nono never returned and didn't have a chance.

Despite my fervor such as in my latest post, I have to look elsewhere in case I'm wrong. I have one of two things I could pursue. For many of the same POE reasons BM could be scum also apply to you (and to me). Now, part of me thinks scum!Raya would be all over my elimination without a 2nd thought. I guess it's also possible you're pocketing me, but that's a dangerous game and I think you know that...and that's why I'm not pursuing you as the alternate to BM. There's no chance (assuming I don't get mislimmed) I'd allow either of you to LimLo without a tracker clear....and I feel like scum!Raya recognizes that. I don't know if that helps you or not. If you are scum then great job in convincing me otherwise!

[T-Bone]

My list is currently BM>Nono>Raya>Yes/Moz>Arte>Enchant. Raya you are so high because POE issues with the council necessitate that. town!Raya should never have me below her top scumreads either for the same reason.

Moz/Yes are in the 'I could see them being too afraid to kill' camp, and at least Yes would have been right to do so. The fact that it has been so hard for BM to get this miselim on me gives me hope for both these players.

Arte is still kinda gut for reasons I am not able to articulate.

I don't think Enchant hammers his scumbuddy, and if he's bold enough to have actually done so, great job Enchant. (I also think scum!Enchant kills because if he's bold enough to hammer a buddy, he's bold enough to not be afraid of getting caught)

[T-Bone]

Regardless of your alignment, I'm not upset with you or trying to confront you beyond the confines of this game. This is a good play for scum!BM, and this game is fucking hard and I don't hold illwill to town!BM either.

[T-Bone]

I was discussing the possibility in laying out the POE from the council. Gun to my head I think scum!Raya has more incentive to not think twice about my miselim if I'm being honest. Fair play to you if you are and didn't go for it.

[T-Bone]

I was discussing the possibility in laying out the POE from the council. Gun to my head I think scum!Raya has more incentive to not think twice about my miselim if I'm being honest. Fair play to you if you are and didn't go for it.

my question is, why would town-Raya be moving away from elimming within the pool of players who didn't elim A50? I don't understand Raya's back and forth on you at all - one minute pretty convinced you're scum, the next defending you without much thought.

That is a feature of Raya. Unsure if it is alignment indicative or just player indicative.

[T-Bone]

"Shift to Nono?" You understand I was robbed of the chance to eliminate you, correct? I literally cannot vote you or have you properly eliminated today.

[T-Bone]

Maybe there's too much distancing happening there. Ok so if scum didn't kill my pool is better as {yessiree, t-bone, maybe BM?}

Ok then - given we don't know if scum killed, and if they did it would clear both yessirree and me, why are you not elimming T-Bone today?

If only we took some action that would have provided clarity as to what scum did for sure, last night.

[T-Bone]

Nah, we wouldn't want to accidentally give the town any useful information. A player who will go unnamed, wanted to make sure we had no information so that he could push a miselim based on that lack of information.

[T-Bone]

I'm honestly banging my head on a desk because using the doctor action is negative utility against solo scum and you're out here defending it like it was the superior choice. It wasn't. It was the choice that allowed maximum WIFOM. Only one person benefits from maximum WIFOM and it isn't me.

Here's the plan I presented vs the plan we went with. Here are the facts.

BM's plan: protect himself, track someone else. No kill last night. We do not know for sure, whether scum no-killed or targeted BM.

My plan: Protect no one. Either BM gets killed and yessiree is confirmed town...or we know for sure scum no-killed.

I like how you're trying to argue after the fact that our plans would have provided the same amount of information but the FACT is it wouldn't have. Even if we still didn't have a kill last night, the fact that we would now know for sure what scum did is more useful then the nonsense you're trying to push. Frankly, we both wouldn't be in this situation right now had we went with my preferred plan.

And since you and I both know we wouldn't be in this 1v1. Why did you want your awful plan?

[T-Bone]

I feel like town!BM would realize that his selfishness to be protected would now, in retrospect, realize how badly he messed up the mechanic of the set-up. It is very plain to see, how on Day 2, using the doctor is negative utility.

But you haven't even made that realization, so town!BM is unlikely.

[T-Bone]

And I don't mean that in a "I told you so" kind of way. It is just time to have some self-reflection if you're town. Especially since you have access to this negative utility role again tonight.

[T-Bone]

Really that should be directed @Arte and @Enchant. Please after I flip town, do not let BM bully you into using the doctor power. You all need to know tomorrow if scum intentionally no-kills or not.

[T-Bone]

I'm using hyperbolic language to get my point across.

It was my mistake not to fight harder in our council topic. We'd be in a much better place had I done so.

[T-Bone]

I'm glad BM has moved from 't-bone is scum' to 'I hope t-bone is town so I can convince enchant and arte to do sub-optimal things in council tonight'.

[T-Bone]

The next step in scum-rationalization is to blame me for "being scummy" when having to answer to my confirmed town thoughts. Look out for that!

[T-Bone]

Nah, we wouldn't want to accidentally give the town any useful information. A player who will go unnamed, wanted to make sure we had no information so that he could push a miselim based on that lack of information.

although that isn't true, how convenient it is for you to be able to peddle such a baseless theory, in an attempt to buy yourself an otherwise unlikely, but much needed, mis-elim.

Please enlighten the class what information we now have.

Can you tell us for certain whether scum tried to kill last night or not?

Can you tell us for certain if anyone is confirmed town?

[T-Bone]

I'm glad BM has moved from 't-bone is scum' to 'I hope t-bone is town so I can convince enchant and arte to do sub-optimal things in council tonight'.

haha i did say "almost", sorry to get your hopes up!

I mean, I gotta watch you dodge the righteous elimination you need in the dead thread soon enough. You still gotta play.

[T-Bone]

@ Raya, re: T-Bone: Most scum would have faded into the background by now. He's out in the open, argumentative, confrontational, and looks like he' trying to solve the game. Very few scum are capable of playing like he does.
This is a problem town often have, scum don't do much, town post a lot, get into arguments, piss other town off, contradcit themselves, whilst scum just sit back and blend in.
The overview is really important.

For what its worth I am very capable of doing this as scum.

We...just wouldn't be in this current situation if I was.

[T-Bone]

Moz/Yes are in the 'I could see them being too afraid to kill' camp, and at least Yes would have been right to do so. The fact that it has been so hard for BM to get this miselim on me gives me hope for both these players.

well, you underestimate how bad I am at this game, I know I was tracked last night and stuff, but the idea to no-kill never crossed my mind until Enchant literally proclaimed it in his first post day2.

I'd like to think everyone is good at the game and playing their best.

[T-Bone]

I'd prefer you actually not hammer a townie, Enchant. I gave my reads in #712.

The best elimination from a chance to nail scum perspective is Nono.

[T-Bone]

It would honestly be easier if you all treated my posts as coming from confirmed town without needing my flip. I am so transparently town in everything I say and do. I've laid out my thoughts and reads very clearly. I'm the first person to realize how negative utility the doctor is in this set-up, when the scum-thing to do would be to not point that out. I was the one who wanted to use the council to try and narrow down the elimination pool, and it is definitely my fault for not fighting harder for that for the sake of harmony on the council. That's where I went wrong, and that's on me. But at least I'm trying to solve the game. You look at Battle Mage's posts and you can clearly see he is not interested in a solve. You watch him in the council tonight, and if you make me flip green, it would behoove you not to let him make any decisions.

[T-Bone]

Explain the interactions between Nono and A50. It seems pretty unlikely those come from distancing partners

I thought I did. The way Nono voted for A50 looks like that thing you do where you vote your scumbuddy, and then back off when the scumbuddy defends themselves. Read this post again.

I will think about it, just can say about Nono: He probably will continue being nonactive/imitate so. Not sure if we really should kill him for this though. Like... I want. But is this will be worth it? How possible he is mafia?

0%) am town

not mad, but disappointed my council didn't get through
wondering why there's paranoia on art,, she feels good, to me, nothing pings me
cow is town,, from my pov, would have kept me as viable lim, not townlean me,, of course, this only reinforced if i die

thinking almost, almost has played with me before,, why am i scummy, almost?

VOTE: almost

The only reason Nono doesn't back off, is because Nono never posts again. Nono had no intention to eliminate A50, and you can see it from their post. If Nono is scum, A50's elimination comes by accident.

[T-Bone]

Raya, here is my analysis of Nono from earlier.

I looked into the Moz/A50 interactions and idk, they seem almost too close to be scumbuddies. They both were pretty adamant about wanting the other in the council right from the start but that seems too obvious? Would scum not want to distance at all?

Well it seems no one else subscribes to that, since people are lol claiming that Almost50 got me on the council and that's why I am scum. tbh I should be confirmed town based on that interaction, because A50 was waiting for someone they knew to be town to give them permission to change some votes.

But alas here we are, with that interaction, the fact that I didn't quick hammer, and the lack of no-kill.... with practically confirmed town T-Bone at L-2. (sorry just a tad bit arrogant I know, but that's where my head is at.)

But to answer your question, I think scum will distance, if they can, but they aren't going to go out of their way to fake that kind of distancing, you know? If you're thinking Moz for example, is he the kind of player to be direct with a scumbuddy? I know from this game he's the type to both throw stuff at a wall to see what sticks, but also back down when challenged (I don't mean that as an insult Moz). Does that lend itself to purposeful interaction with a scum buddy?

The thing is there's enough wifom around scum!you no-killing to earn towncred and to avoid confirming a townie that it's still possible you're scum. And your plan for the actions wasn't that good which also adds to my suspicions.

More wifom I'm thinking about now though. Does scum!T-Bone who is at E-2 push me away from scumreading potential miselim!Moz?

Raya, for what it's worth, I am a straight forward player. WIFOM is a bad tool and I don't set out to create it. Do with that information what you will.

As for Moz, I am generally convinced that BM is scum, but I can't do anything about it. While I think Moz could conceivably no-kill, I'd have to rank him under Nono. I didn't want to harp on it, but Nono has 14 posts and is very passive and also not doing anything productive. I feel like if I am wrong on BM, then Nono would be the one. I know a couple of people said 'but Nono voted A50'...but so what? He voted A50 and never posted again. Look at this.

I will think about it, just can say about Nono: He probably will continue being nonactive/imitate so. Not sure if we really should kill him for this though. Like... I want. But is this will be worth it? How possible he is mafia?

0%) am town

not mad, but disappointed my council didn't get through
wondering why there's paranoia on art,, she feels good, to me, nothing pings me
cow is town,, from my pov, would have kept me as viable lim, not townlean me,, of course, this only reinforced if i die

thinking almost, almost has played with me before,, why am i scummy, almost?

VOTE: almost

Is this someone who was convinced A50 was scum? Maybe. To me, if we're looking like partner associations, this is classic 'let me vote my scumbuddy and ask them to explain themselves so I can unvote later when I like their explanation'. But then Nono never returned and didn't have a chance.

Despite my fervor such as in my latest post, I have to look elsewhere in case I'm wrong. I have one of two things I could pursue. For many of the same POE reasons BM could be scum also apply to you (and to me). Now, part of me thinks scum!Raya would be all over my elimination without a 2nd thought. I guess it's also possible you're pocketing me, but that's a dangerous game and I think you know that...and that's why I'm not pursuing you as the alternate to BM. There's no chance (assuming I don't get mislimmed) I'd allow either of you to LimLo without a tracker clear....and I feel like scum!Raya recognizes that. I don't know if that helps you or not. If you are scum then great job in convincing me otherwise!

[T-Bone]

And again truth be told I think the correct elimination is BM, but while I've made that case we can't do anything about it. Nono could simply be inactive town. But as I am the wrong elimination for my perspective, I'm looking elsewhere. And of the options we have that aren't me, Nono's play makes the most sense, holistically, of coming from scum. I know you've said you think Nono's and A50's interactions don't make sense...but I would charge that Nono's posting is too limited for you to be able to make that distinction. There just isn't a lot in Nono's posting. Minimal interactions Day 1, and god awful ones today.

[T-Bone]

I mean, do you anticipate that your partner is gonna ghost you? I don't think I would.

If not Nono though, who are you looking at and why?

[T-Bone]

Besides the fact that you voted me. That's your problem, not mine.

[T-Bone]

I thought I did. The way Nono voted for A50 looks like that thing you do where you vote your scumbuddy, and then back off when the scumbuddy defends themselves. Read this post again.

The rest of the interactions though. They were at each other for a lot of the game and not in a distancing way

I'm loath to bring up past games because meta is trash, so please know I do this with the utmost delicacy.

Our last game together, while I had a general feeling about MiniVirgo, it was one post that solidified the read for me. And the reason for that is simple, and how I approach the game. I approach it based on two general assumptions. First, I assume that everyone is playing to the best of their abilities. Second, I don't assume that every post a person makes is alignment indicative. People tell you what alignment they are in the margins, in discrete moments, not in overt actions. You say 'look at every post between Nono and A50' and I think you're approaching it backwards. You're looking for scum indication in every post and aren't finding it. I would say, you will never find scum indication in every post. Sometimes things aren't alignment indicative.

So when I look at the Nono and A50 interactions, I see an incomplete narrative. Maybe you're right and this was genuine on Nono's part. But to me, and the post I keep quoting as a result, this looks incomplete. The post I quoted looked to be an indication of something better from Nono. I think Nono fully intended to try and have a full interaction with A50 so that he could look like he's trying to sort A50. I think that because of Nono's infrequent posting, he wasn't able to fully realize this and ended up eliminating A50 because that was his last post of the day phase.

[T-Bone]

I mean, do you anticipate that your partner is gonna ghost you? I don't think I would.

If not Nono though, who are you looking at and why?

There's an in between though. A50 and Nono is too much.

I'm looking at you, if not yessiree, if not BM. Everyone else has a reason to be basically clear or highly townread. We eliminate you, get info overnight, reevaluate everyone's pools.

Do you think I'm scum or not? You're flipping me for info??? If I was scum it would end the game, no info needed.

So if you don't think I'm scum, then there's no reason to flip me. This doesn't make sense.

Are you posting like you already know I'm town? What is this?

[T-Bone]

surrrreeeee

[T-Bone]

You've been conceding my points most of the day phase barring Nono, so I'd love to hear the mental gymnastics you've gone through anyway to cast this vote.

[T-Bone]

The problem with that is now T-Bone knows he's being tracked so if we keep him alive and he's scum then he just no kills and were back to where we started. Or scum choose to no kill to frame T-Bone. I do agree town-confirmed T-Bone would be very powerful.

Town is in a really good position right now with a lot of near confirmed town, a flipped scum, and a very small pool. If we're wrong on T-Bone then we use the info gained and I'm sure we can find the right person next day

I struggle to imagine that T-Bone scum would be killing tonight regardless, given he chose not to kill last night when he was on the council and knew he wasn't being tracked.

It's as if...

but that would require common sense...

[T-Bone]

Don't think about it too hard. You might realize that killing makes way more sense for scum!bone than no killing.

[T-Bone]

Yeah, protecting no one was sane decision.

No matter how good and town someone looks, he could be mafia, even BM. So trading life of Townie-Townie for life of confirmed by track is insanely useful, so i don't understand what BM had.

eh fine, if i was wrong, i'll own it. my sense last night was that this game should be pretty easy, with a majority pool of probable town and a narrow scumpool, and my main thought was about blocking a kill to keep 1 more probable townie in the game to maximise our day-elims. The way today has played out so far, with the wagon on Nono, it doesn't seem that there is such a clear consensus about the townpool/scumpool, so perhaps it was wrong in hindsight. Although from my own perspective, if the decision last night had any impact, it was to save my own life, and I think my contribution today has been a net benefit to the town - especially if T-Bone is the final scum.

I don't think the protect decision has much bearing in any case, and I feel much more strongly about using the track on someone where it might result in a red-check.

Thinking back to the discussion last night, T-Bone's original proposal was for No protect, track T-Bone. Which is consistent with the idea that T-Bone never intended to kill anyway, but wanted 100% confirmation that no kill was attempted - to enable him to push the bogus rhetoric of "scum no-killing is inconceivable, T-Bone would never do that" as a means to secure some much needed towncred.

Enchant, look at this post. He's manipulating you.

He's appeasing to you by saying you might be right. And then he's doing some incredible mental gymnastics to confirm his false scum read.

Do not let this scum manipulate you.

[T-Bone]

Raya. In post 855 BM once again suggested that I didn't want to use the track. Can you confirm or deny this as truth? Did I at any point ever suggest not using the track action?

[T-Bone]

The answer is of course not. This is the second time he's boldly stated this lie. Why are you voting with him?

[T-Bone]

Actually Enchant, flip me after Raya confirms this. I want the last thing you all there is BM lying about my intentions. He's trying to manipulate you all into believing I was against using both actions because I didn't want to use the doctor action. His ploy in 855 is plain to see. Flip him tomorrow and we win.

[T-Bone]

3. In contrast to 2, your proposed night actions do come with a scum motive, as I laid out in post 848, and more generally the idea of not using the tracker to try and catch scum killing beggars belief.

Right here, let this be a monument to BM's scum game. I apologize for all the posts in a row. This did not happen. I never suggested not using the track action. In fact my suggestion was more likely to catch scum than what we ultimately did. BM is trying to imply that I suggested using no actions, right here.

This is the second time he's done so.

He's gonna post and claim this isn't what he meant in a moment. But this is what he posted, he can't take it back.

So Enchant, let Raya confirms these facts for you. Let Raya confirm once again, I know she won't use language to suggest this is the flat out lie that it is, but she'll probably say something like "T-Bone is right, he never said or suggested this." Once she does that, feel free to hammer.

Then of course, ignore everything BM says in council tonight. It's unfortunate that he conned his way in, but it is what it is. The way council works is that anyone can confirm the actions. The last person to confirm an action is what sets the action. You don't need BM's consensus. Do whatever you think is best with the night actions to force his hand, and feel safe and secure in the fact that you do not need his cooperation, you just need to ensure either you are Arte are the last person to confirm the council's action.

[T-Bone]

Raya. In post 855 BM once again suggested that I didn't want to use the track. Can you confirm or deny this as truth? Did I at any point ever suggest not using the track action?

You wanted to use the track but that's not what BM said in 855

more generally the idea of not using the tracker to try and catch scum

He's trying to tie the idea that I didn't want to use any actions because I didn't want to use the doctor action. It is in plain language if you don't take the segment fragment.

[T-Bone]

Either way I've caught BM in enough falsehoods, misrepresentations, and manipulations that you all should have no problem eliminating him tomorrow.

Say it with me class. 'T-Bone, we will have no problems eliminating Battle Mage tomorrow'.

Please and thank you.

[T-Bone]

Raya you didn't say it with me!

[T-Bone]

Well yes, I cannot play the game for you after I'm dead.

But nonetheless class I want to hear it in unison!

[T-Bone]

3. In contrast to 2, your proposed night actions do come with a scum motive, as I laid out in post 848, and more generally the idea of not using the tracker to try and catch scum killing beggars belief.

Aren't his idea was to use Track on T-Bone and No-Protect?

correct, this is "not using the tracker to try and catch scum" i.e. not using the tracker in a way where it can potentially result in a guilty-investigation.

Correct, tracking me would not result in a guilty-investigation, but it might have confirmed me as town. Glad you agree.

You may start to see why this was a problem for BM.

[T-Bone]

i'm not gonna read pages of town v town ego clashes.
Bm and Tbone are so effing town.
Could you guys agree to disagree and move on, vote Nono, and win the game?

Unfortunately you'll have to carry that mantle.

Either you or Enchant should hammer me. We'll lay out BM for all to see.

[T-Bone]

If T-Bone is Town:
Probably he acknowlidge, he in bad position from last day and can be mislynched. So his suggestion was to track him. If kill happened, it autoclears him. Would townie do that? Yeah, especially if T-Bone assumed if mafia skipped, they are idiots. So he probably sured mafia will kill someone, clear him and save us from some headache.

This was my exact thought process for the record. Maybe a little selfish of me, but I thought a confirmed town T-Bone would be good, and avoid the 'lol T-Bone and A50 were buddies' nonsense.

[T-Bone]

I mean my theory was if there was no-kill it guarantees scum in BM/Raya(/Bone from everyone else's perspective).

Which...I think that'll hold up well.

[T-Bone]

*If we tracked someone in the council, such as myself.

[T-Bone]

Just remember to get BM please.

[T-Bone]

BM/Nono/Raya guaranteed victory. But it probably ends with BM.

Say it with me class.

T-Bone, we will have no problems eliminating Battle Mage tomorrow.

[T-Bone]

3. In contrast to 2, your proposed night actions do come with a scum motive, as I laid out in post 848, and more generally the idea of not using the tracker to try and catch scum killing beggars belief.

Aren't his idea was to use Track on T-Bone and No-Protect?

correct, this is "not using the tracker to try and catch scum" i.e. not using the tracker in a way where it can potentially result in a guilty-investigation.

Correct, tracking me would not result in a guilty-investigation, but it might have confirmed me as town. Glad you agree.

You may start to see why this was a problem for BM.

the problem with this is, according to your theory of me being scum, I had to have no-killed last night irrespective of the tracking (or...targetted myself). So why would BM-scum have cared if you were tracked? In fact, if I was scum, that would have been a better outcome for me because it wouldn't give another player any towncred (as Yessirree got today). Although, as previously noted, even as scum it's unlikely I'd pitch for something so conspicuously anti-town.

Are the majority really not seeing T-Bone indiscriminately throw a whole lotta stuff at the wall, with none of it sticking? And note that, despite me continually refuting every point T-Bone has pinged my way, he never gives any hint of re-evaluating his assertions or opinions, or heck, even trying to refute my rebuttal. Where's the townie behaviour here?

The person who needed to reevaluate was you. But since you're scum you obviously won't. You lost. Only a matter of time. Make your kill tonight count.

[T-Bone]

Don't let BM blame me for "bad play", tomorrow. It was his solid play that got me miseliminated. Shortsighted, but solid.

I'm confirmed town now bitches, which means everything I've said is right. Study my ISO.

[T-Bone]

Better this way, then we don't have to do this song and dance tomorrow.

[T-Bone]

You can just realize I'm right and say it with me....eliminate Battle Mage tomorrow.

[T-Bone]

Get to reading, if I'm eliminated as scum I don't drag it out in twilight. I would have posted GG.

[T-Bone]

My anger would have been seething.