Open 808: The Council Has Spoken

[yessiree]

What if I told you, I don't know what a heal tag is??

HURT: t bone

[yessiree]

why are people healing already?

[yessiree]

understandable have a nice day

[yessiree]

The real question is why aren't you healing already?

No heal, only hurt

[yessiree]

the real question is why does battle mage have a milftank avatar

WHOAH, keep your fetishes to yourself. -b

[yessiree]

I'm solidly in the no-rush-in-choosing-council camp, yes-yes.

And if you think-know you're better than me, we will see-see.

[yessiree]

why are people voting to heal, surely they cant have any idea of who town is yet?

i just picked what i thought would make a good council. I'm secretly a bit of a T-Bone fan, and I feel like between us we can get a good read on Artemiana.

also I think we have to vote the council before we elim someone, so it probably is slightly a case of getting it done earlier? Otherwise scum/idiot town can hammer a wagon and we get no council.

do quick elims happen that often?

and having a scum on the council nullifies its utility, so there is no point in rushing it

[yessiree]

I would assume no council so we'd have to be mindful of that but good idea to ask.

@mod What happens if we eliminate a member of the chosen council?

• Every day, players use HEAL: tags to propose a
  Council
  of 3 people. Proposals can be changed freely, but a decision is locked in when the majority of players propose the same combination of 3 people. Should there be no council decided before an elimination is hammered, there will be no council.
  
• Council members are made elimination-proof
  for the day and put into a PT the following night. During the night, they vote in their PT to
  track
  one person and
  protect
  one person. These function as tracker and doctor actions performed by the group.

[yessiree]

don't see-get town vibes from BM here, what-what

[yessiree]

HEAL: Battle Mage, T-Bone, Artemiana

VOTE: yessiree

HEAL: Battle Mage, T-Bone, Artemiana

Three possibilities here:

1- Both a re Scum
2- Both are Town
3- One of them is Scum & 1 is Town

TAKE NOTE OF MY WISDOM. I'm the next guru (no offense intended @Yessiree)

I can't believe you've done this. I'm extremely mad-mad.

Wait, what am I supposed to be offended about again?

[yessiree]

I guess no point healing until we figure out who are strongest town reads are?

This and T-Bone's opening are Town posts.

HEAL: Mozamis, T-Bone, Almost50

@Mod: Would you accept a string that is NOT the exact username if it definitely identifies that player?

(Ex: Over50)

So almost50 is a lie

Can never trust a boomer these days

[yessiree]

HEAL: BM

I also wouldn't mind

HEAL: Mozamis
And maybe HEAL: Raya

why wouldn't you heal yourself

[yessiree]

I do agree with Enchant's plan to appoint one council member first, on the simple basis that voting one person is more feasible than voting a three-member combination all at once

as for how the remaining 2 are chosen, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it

[yessiree]

yessire if you agree, please vote.

Waiting of yessire. Also others can change vote/add more like T-Bone/Artemiana did.

I'll do it when you can spell my name right

[yessiree]

Council Voting 1.03

Battle Mage, T-Bone, Artemiana (3):

Battle Mage, Artemiana, T-Bone

Raya36, Battle Mage, Enchant (1):

Raya36

Enchant, Battle Mage, T-Bone (1):

Enchant

Mozamis, T-Bone, Yessiree (1):

Almost50

Not Voting (3):

yessiree, Nono, mozamis

When 5 players vote for the same council of three, they will be the day's council.
The only votes for the council I will accept is if all three members are in the same post. I don't mind you using heal tags otherwise, but I'm not going to piece together your heal tags to make a team.

does anyone tr t-bone? cause I don't.

[yessiree]

I actually think the t-bone-mozzyman team to be a real possibility

[yessiree]

HEAL: Battle Mage

I don't agree with him on a lot of things but I can see the eager beaver town motivation behind and he is a pretty universal TR

[yessiree]

VOTE: T-Bone

[yessiree]

I actually think the t-bone-mozzyman team to be a real possibility

It isnt.

when you try your best but you don't succeed

[yessiree]

Spoiler: really weird interaction between tbone and mozamis feat. TBONE

I'm secretly a bit of a T-Bone fan

that's great and all, but you can't possibly knpw whether he is town or scum yet. Best to unvote.

Battle Mage and I are Masons.

I'm generally against plans because it fosters fake cooperation. I'd rather people independently play their best. Yes, it means cooperation is harder, but it also means it is more genuine (and thus less prone to manipulation).

what are your reads so far?

I have 6 posts. You honestly can't find me expressing any reads?

Vote: mozamis

TLDR, weird interaction in what appears to be distancing that ends in mutual SR but no real intent to get each other SR'ed by the rest of town
Caught scum.

OH lol he votes me a couple of posts later. Yeah, lock scum I think.

Spoiler: Cont. feat. mozzy

I'm generally against plans because it fosters fake cooperation. I'd rather people independently play their best. Yes, it means cooperation is harder, but it also means it is more genuine (and thus less prone to manipulation).

what are your reads so far?

So far Enchant, Almost, BM, Yes town.
Arte prob town.
Tbone worries me a bit.

So scum are in:
Nono, TBone
lol i have town read everyone else
game solved then!

VOTE: T BONE

[yessiree]

what the HECKA, it ate my paragraph

oh well, TLDR - weird interaction between tbone-mozzy that ends in mutual SR but no real intention to get each other SR'ed by others

[yessiree]

what the HECKA, it ate my paragraph

oh well, TLDR - weird interaction between tbone-mozzy that ends in mutual SR but no real intention to get each other SR'ed by others

Are you his partner? Because I have both so far 'asked people not to put him into a council' and have been very clearly discussing with Raya this scumread.

by 'asked people not to put him into a council', you are referring to these?

I'll vote for any council that contains myself.

Artemiana is part gut read part something I cannot explain. BM is convenience for me. He hasn't done anything scummy (nor have most players at this point). I'm pretty strong on Artemiana, I could take or leave most of the playerlist as my 3rd councilmember.

and by 'discussing with Raya this scumread', you are referring to this?

OH lol he votes me a couple of posts later. Yeah, lock scum I think.

Artemiana is part gut read part something I cannot explain. BM is convenience for me. He hasn't done anything scummy (nor have most players at this point). I'm pretty strong on Artemiana, I could take or leave most of the playerlist as my 3rd councilmember.

Who wouldn't you take from the playerlist then?

mozamis!

nuh-uh

I'm onto you t-bonerita

[yessiree]

Page 10 is just super weird as a progression. BM talks about scumreading yesiree on page 9, and now with the cover of mozamis on page 10 (who has expressed a real read to his credit) yesiree suddenly chimes in to shade me out of nowhere?

It took yesiree an awfully long time to go from 'i'm not answering enchant cause my name was spelled wrong' in #230, to a chain of mozamis affirming his town reads to shading me in #237.

Contrast these two players, actually. I seem pretty top of mind for mozamis as his professed top scumread. I am yesiree's only scumread (apparently), but he doesn't make that a priority?

well I'm elim-voting you, so I'd say it's a pretty big priority alright

[yessiree]

I'm posting from work (I live in Asia ATM), got dragged away for a sec. But whatevs bro, didn't know jokes are outlawed

[yessiree]

I'm posting from work (I live in Asia ATM), got dragged away for a sec. But whatevs bro, didn't know jokes are outlawed

Deflecting by not addressing the issue I am raising.

what issue are you raising? is it the fact that I responded to enchant and my next couple posts came 20 minutes after? like what?

[yessiree]

Page 10 is just super weird as a progression. BM talks about scumreading yesiree on page 9, and now with the cover of mozamis on page 10 (who has expressed a real read to his credit) yesiree suddenly chimes in to shade me out of nowhere?

It took yesiree an awfully long time to go from 'i'm not answering enchant cause my name was spelled wrong' in #230, to a chain of mozamis affirming his town reads to shading me in #237.

Contrast these two players, actually. I seem pretty top of mind for mozamis as his professed top scumread. I am yesiree's only scumread (apparently), but he doesn't make that a priority?

You're not my only scumread. you must've missed the part where I specifically called tbone-mozzy scumteam

[yessiree]

Yeah, thanks for vote, yussire.

now you are doing it on purpose

HURT: enchonk

[yessiree]

I actually think the t-bone-mozzyman team to be a real possibility

Are you calling me

ducky

the worst player on the list?

that is already claimed, and don't you dare take it away from me

[yessiree]

T-Bone/mozamis
yessiree

BM/Raya/Enchant

Nono/Artemiana

If I use my super intellectual gift I'd say one scum in BM/Raya/Enchant and the other is in Nono/Atemiana (but don't quote me on any of that yet. I'll only take responsibility of my reads on the top 3 so far)

well, would you look at that, looks exactly the same as mine, just with the order reversed

raya/arte/nono/BM/enchant/a50 are all of varying shades of green for me

[yessiree]

Aren't you say you scumread me

no, did i s-s-stutter?

[yessiree]

Also others can change vote/add more like T-Bone/Artemiana did.

OK then. My choices are unpopular it seems, but I'll add them anyway:

HEAL: Moz, T-Bone, Yessiree

Well that would be exactly everyone I said no to

Wolf



Monkey

Do you see any similarities? Do they even rhyme??

Spoiler:

[yessiree]

HEAL: BM, Raya, Enchant

I'm not impartial to this council right about now

[yessiree]

"I want X to be on council because I townread them on gut" needs to be purged

"I want in on council because I know I'm town" is lame and also needs to be purged

We should only vote sweati trihards who can townpost quality content^TM as council members

[yessiree]

9. I forgot who 9 player is.

is you

[yessiree]

So, you choose Raya?

Fine then.

This tonally reads as you're unhappy with her choice?

This tonally reads as agreeing with the choice in a British gentlemanly accent

[yessiree]

Shouldn't still be voting T-Bone, Nono and arte look most scummy.
UNVOTE:

Spoiler: get out of my head

[yessiree]

Arte would rather spend the weekend on a nice hunting trip than on some internet forum, the gall of some people amirite

[yessiree]

Oh yeah, we still gotta do the murder-kill thing don't we

[yessiree]

HEAL: Raya36, Battle Mage, Artermiana

checked votecount,, seems fine, since no one responded to me(
not lurker, just a playstyle,, all my posts are solving,, if you have a problem, pick at them,, not simple "inactivity"
SO MANY SCUMMY PEOPLE makes it hard to play kek,, like enchant, hates people townreading art for some reason,, has cow up the top despite doing that, has bone at the bottom for doing that, he, himself, has art in middle town, WHAT xD
to count scummy people,, too many to be scum, but let's go with the safe option,, choice seems fairly simple, to me

I forgot you are in this game. Well maybe I didn't forget but I barely remember what you did. That's how un-rememberable you are

[yessiree]

Monkey man, why are your top three council choices coincidentally the three who are putting in the least amount t of effort in this game.

Mozzyman is, ok sure but what are you getting from nono and yessiree?

[yessiree]

VC HERE

Caught 'em ridin dirty

[yessiree]

Guys

We have three days to choose a council and vote someone off

Just saying

worry not, im a professional procrastinator

[yessiree]

I personally don't agree with switching out who's in the council. I think if we made a plan we should stick with it and I don't agree that BM and Artemiana are both scum

remember when I said we'll cross that bridge when we come to it? well, we're crossing that bridge now

[yessiree]

UNVOTE:

HEAL: BM/Raya/T-B

BM will probably come back and hammer the top council anyways, oh wells

[yessiree]

whats the opposite of a murder train?

[yessiree]

UNVOTE:

HEAL: BM/Raya/T-B

BM will probably come back and hammer the top council anyways, oh wells

I get that we are closing in on the deadline. With that said...

I'm supposedly your top scumread. Any scum on the Council makes it functionally useless. So...?

It was an early day 1 read. And I drew it mostly from the awkward thought speghetti of mozzyman and I thought there was some sort of scum theatre going on with the way you reacted. Not married to that idea anymore.

[yessiree]

Now this is what I like to call deadline-induced-anxiety-driven-productivity

Not exactly sold on Arte but I'll do nono I guess

[yessiree]

You vote someone in office and the first thing they do is cut your healthcare benefits

[yessiree]

I personally don't agree with switching out who's in the council. I think if we made a plan we should stick with it and I don't agree that BM and Artemiana are both scum

remember when I said we'll cross that bridge when we come to it? well, we're crossing that bridge now

UNVOTE:

HEAL: BM/Raya/T-B

BM will probably come back and hammer the top council anyways, oh wells

I don't understand this. A50 gave a rationale for the change (albeit, not a good one) but yessiree just cryptically sheeped it without explanation - despite townreading Arte who got cut, and scumreading and actually voting to elim TBone who got added. Nonetheless, a rueful comment at the end that I might hammer a wagon which, on yessiree's expressed reads, would have been preferable.

My current thinking is I could see both scum within Yessiree-A50-TBone.

VOTE: Yessiree

Just because I TR'ed someone at some point, I'm obligated to vote them in council? Truly some static 3head 1-dimensional thinking my guy. Did you forget when I said I'll only vote sweaty tryhards who can townpost quality content^TM in council. Arte had plenty of chance to show up and town it up and unfortunately she dropped the ball at a critical juncture, which is evidently bad for her prospectives. (I'm talking Scott Morrison when half of Australia was burning level bad)

So, where is the scum motivation for swapping Arte with TBone?

[yessiree]

UNVOTE:

HEAL: BM/Raya/T-B

BM will probably come back and hammer the top council anyways, oh wells

I get that we are closing in on the deadline. With that said...

I'm supposedly your top scumread. Any scum on the Council makes it functionally useless. So...?

It was an early day 1 read. And I drew it mostly from the awkward thought speghetti of mozzyman and I thought there was some sort of scum theatre going on with the way you reacted. Not married to that idea anymore.

But you pointedly left a large wagon which included Artemiana who you claimed to townread, to join a smaller wagon which included a player you had, to some extent, scumread - even the above doesn't explain the total U-turn in opinion which your voting implies.

Never been on any Arte council wagon, no idea what you are shmoking

[yessiree]

Fuck me. W/e

VOTE: yessiree

Spite voting me just makes me all the more happier I voted you off council

O the fickle nature of public opinion

[yessiree]

It doesn't take a genius to realize that that specific post has nothing to do with what happened into the game. Why are you ignoring the 5-6 posts after that had happened?

oh ok, my bad, you altslipped and then voted me... out of embarrassment that you altslipped?

Actually

HEAL: Raya, nono, BM

I'm down for this and at some point someone's gotta sacrifice to get w council hammer

Also if you're reading, you would have noticed this.

Like what are you even reading?

well you're gonna have to help me out here because I dont particularly see the significance/relevance of #224

[yessiree]

PUNCH

VOTE: Almost50

Not_Mafia alt?

[yessiree]

My current thinking is I could see both scum within Yessiree-A50-TBone.

Why not all 3??

Actually, let's toss in Moz. Yeah. We are the FOUR SCUM in this game. You have been tricked. SMILE.. you're on CANDID CAMERA.

Awfully nonchalant for someone recently hammered, MONKE

[yessiree]

over half the players hadn't checked in, in about a day and you hammered. Okay.

really scummy undertone here, TBonito, this sounds like you're secretly glad he actually hammered so you wouldn't have to do the deed yourself

[yessiree]

Sure, i can't force you to say.

Because of tone i quess you was town, so you probably should give information about people and what you think. It's better than dying silent.

you hammered thinking he was town???

[yessiree]

like, actually the fuck is wrong with yall, the fact that you'd rather kill A50 over nono is mind boggling to me

hey A50, guess what, you should've just hardlurked, because who knows, maybe, maybe you'll make a miraculous comeback and solve the game god knows when, so let's kill someone else who's way more experienced and way more easy to sort later on

that's a big YIKERS

[yessiree]

Elim Voting 1.08

Almost50 (5):

Raya36, Nono, Artemiana, Battle Mage, Enchant

Nono (2):

mozamis, Almost50

yesiree (1):

T-Bone

Not Voting (1):

yessiree

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.
An elimination has been achieved.

welp, looks pretty simple to me

HEAL: Artemiana, Battle Mage, Enchant

VOTE: mozamis

[yessiree]

For that to actually happen, 4 players will have to throw the game first, and the 5th player insane enough to hammer both

[yessiree]

Since I don't see any reason not to claim our results, I shall.

Last night we tracked Yessiree and protected me. so either scum no-killed or tried to kill me. But Yessirree went nowhere, so I'm bumping them slightly down the list of suspects. We should've tested whether some players would have thought of the no-kill option (i.e. if Yesiree-scum would have killed last night, the result could clear them). Nothing really worth sharing from the PT although we had a good discussion. Main point of interest was T-Bone coming up with an odd idea for the night actions which would have guaranteed us no information (not that we achieved much better) and Raya being pretty balanced and moderate.

Notwithstanding, I'm going to VOTE: T-Bone

HEAL: Battle Mage, Artemiana, Enchant

skimmed to this point, felt I had to ask - you decided to track me? Me, who was squarely in A50's pocket day 1

[yessiree]

Spoiler:

I guess no point healing until we figure out who are strongest town reads are?

This and T-Bone's opening are Town posts.

HEAL: Mozamis, T-Bone, Almost50

@Mod: Would you accept a string that is NOT the exact username if it definitely identifies that player?

(Ex: Over50)

T-Bone: No Vote
Almost50: No Vote
Enchant: Nono
yessiree: No Vote.
Artemiana: Battle Mage, Mozamis, Raya36
Nono: No Vote
mozamis: No Vote
Battle Mage: Raya36(?)
Raya36: Battle Mage

BM (2), Raya36 (2), Mozamis (1) Nono (1)


Please check, if i'm wrong.

So what's the plan again? Vote 3 that are not me? Fine

HEAL: Mozamis, T-Bone, Yessiree

I do agree with Enchant's plan to appoint one council member first, on the simple basis that voting one person is more feasible than voting a three-member combination all at once

as for how the remaining 2 are chosen, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it

Seems a good idea, with obvious caveat that you cannot vote for yourself.
HEAL: UNHEAL ALL

Oh!~ So THAT was the plan.

I swear I did read it yesterday, but I totally forgot what it was today, and skimming Enchant's ISO didn't help (apparently I can't read when I'm specifically looking for something rather than reading the whole ISO)

Well, whatever..

HURT: All

HEAL: Moz

Also others can change vote/add more like T-Bone/Artemiana did.

OK then. My choices are unpopular it seems, but I'll add them anyway:

HEAL: Moz, T-Bone, Yessiree

I could go for BM/Raya/moz Bm/Raya/Tbone

Honestly, like idea with BM/Raya/T-Bone.

Any chance of a quick compromise on the council? I will take Raya in if you guys drop one of BM/Artem. My fear is we "might" be making BOTH Scum unkillable today, which would mean we are killing Town regardless after we finalize the council as it is.

I won't even dictate and alternative. Just pick one of Moz/T-B/yes and place them in one of BM/Artem spots.

I'll compromise with you. I've made my stance on wanting to be on the council clear, I'm flexible with whom I can be on it with. What do you want?

Well then..

HEAL: BM/Raya/T-Bone

Also others can change vote/add more like T-Bone/Artemiana did.

OK then. My choices are unpopular it seems, but I'll add them anyway:

HEAL: Moz, T-Bone, Yessiree

One scum, two town pocket.

This is the only council he wanted all of yesterday, and in all votes he wanted tbone in the council above all.

Tbone was also the one that he chose to replace me with, and he was also against BM being in the council.

Yessus was clearly pocketed based on his reactions to his hammer yesterday

This could also, simultaneously be one scum and two town frames.

A agree, track and doc target should be outed and I don't think mafia decided to NK, considering a kill removes one needed miselimination to win.

The only reasons I think scum would no kill is if they knew they being tracked and didnt want to be incriminated
Or someone on the council wanted to look like they were cleared because, if scum knew who was being protected they could just kill around it. The clearing WIFOM for anyone of these three is theoretically enough to make it to end game

Are we gonna apply the fabled 1-in-3 rule against its creator here?

[yessiree]

Me, bone, Yessiree obvious suspects (didnt vote for Almost).
I always think scum tend not to bus, particularly when there are only two of them.
Leaving Tbone and Yesiree.
If they did bus, my main suspect would be BM as if you read Almost's ISO, there is a lot of "mentionitis" from Almost about BM.
So i guess my main suspects are BM, Yes and Tbone.

I think we lim off A50's wagon first as well, so kudos to you for spelling it out

If scum is playing the long game and bussed A50, then... (you guys sort it out because I'll be dead )

[yessiree]

Me, bone, Yessiree obvious suspects (didnt vote for Almost).
I always think scum tend not to bus, particularly when there are only two of them.
Leaving Tbone and Yesiree.
If they did bus, my main suspect would be BM as if you read Almost's ISO, there is a lot of "mentionitis" from Almost about BM.
So i guess my main suspects are BM, Yes and Tbone.

I partially agree. Scum bus far too often on this site of late - in terms of the overall site meta, bussing is more common than it should be. But this is an open setup where scum are hugely handicapped if they lose 1 early, so likelihood of bussing is pretty low.

So yes, I'm looking off-wagon for A50's buddy. And of those on-wagon, a more favourable slant to those who joined later (i.e. actual bussing, vs distancing when the chance of A50-elim going through was lower).

Agreed, I think it's safe to locktown Arte and BM for the pivot onto A50, and enchonker for the hammer

I must say enchant is playing a very good game If he was A50's buddy and hammered like that, so I won't humor that possibility for now

[yessiree]

What motivation Mafia-Almost50 have to remove Artemiana from council? If she is mafia, it's nonsense.

You'd have to think it was some sort of big brain scum move to distance himself from artemiana, by first removing her from council, then have her drive him to the ground. The possibility is so low, only the most paranoid player would think this is true.

[yessiree]

Although I guess Nono shouldnt be completely exonorated.
Almost could have bussed him, knowing the wagon was going nowhere. Maybe Nono bussed Almost early and dint have time to get off the wagon?
Lot of maybes...but stuff to ponder.

Nono would make the most sense to be scum if you look on-wagon.

I guess you can make the argument A50 lost interest for this game with an inactive/lurky partner so he evidently didn't put in that much effort to look town.

[yessiree]

I have the lowest chance of the entire playerlist lol. No killing is stupid and scum is stupid for doing it.

Nope. This doesn't come from the mindset of town!TBone. I think this was a slipup. I think you meant No killing is stupid for scum on the council and scum is stupid for doing it. You just happen to know scum was on the council and no killed. No killing is not at all stupid for off-council scum.

Consider my vote on TBone. Idk what he's at.

I'm ok with the BM, Enchant, Art council that seems to be getting votes. I'd still prefer the one I'm voting for though

Can someone tell me if this makes sense or if I'm just paranoia tunneling

I think this is a red herring - "Would T-Bone no-kill as scum given he knew he was not being tracked". It leads to some pointless arguments about self-meta^TM

But as for whether T-Bone would present this argument in an attempt to townclear himself. I could see scum!bone doing it

[yessiree]

VOTE: T-Bone

I think this is the play. L-2 by my count

[yessiree]

Woke up to 4 more pages of content, oh boy. Skimmed through, saw quite a bit of walls, so I need some caffeine in my system before continuing

[yessiree]

T-Bone's attitude (a pre-occupation with protecting himself, rather than a meaningful focus on scumhunting) is not what I'd expect from town in a game where a win is virtually guaranteed.
There is no motivation for A50 to push T-Bone so hard into the council if they aren't scum together, given A50 barely did anything else of note in the game. A50 is a pretty straightforward and direct player, so fairly unlikely it was a double-bluff. It's possible A50 would use that as a means to buddy up to a townie who could be manipulated, but T-Bone feels pretty low down the list of players who would fit that profile.
T-Bone was very keen last night to keep Raya and I from criticising him the following day, despite his plan which didn't stand up to scrutiny.
I don't think T-Bone-town pushes so hard to get on the council, only to then want to not use the abilities.

Agreed with the assessment here about T-Bone being less interested in game solving, and more invested in deflecting pressure off him. As seen with his interactions with mozamis, me, and to a lesser extent Rayas. Most of his play day1 seems to revolve around players who expressed a scumread on him by quickly turning around and scumreading them. Being adamant that it wasn't A50 who got him on the council and strongarming Raya clarify her stance on him was also odd, and I'd even scumread based on tone, but bit iffy on that.

[yessiree]

Right now its 1:7

Last night, it was 1:7

If a kill happened today we would be at 1:6

If scum kill, they reduce the amount of eliminations needed to win by half. If yessus was killed last night,

Tbone
BM
Raya

Would probably all be suspect

But

1:6
1:4
1:2

The scum on council could safely eliminate the other two before entering Lylo

Or they could eliminate off council once before Elo and they have a solid chance to win at Elo

it depends on context though surely? T-Bone-scum in the scenario above has a life expectancy of 1 gameday, so why would he ever do it? If T-Bone scum ever kills, he'd have to kill in the on-wagon pool (which is probably why he wasn't interested in using the track-ability to try and catch/clear a prime suspect, despite taking it as a given that scum would kill).

.

There's multiple pros to no-killing last night.
1 - it makes an even number, which is theoretically pro-scum, by making it harder to get an elimination (5 needed to reach consensus in 8p versus 4 needed in 7p), and also maximizes the elim pool.
2 - it denies the council PR utility. In a no-kill scenario, doctor is useless (no one needed to protect), and tracker can never generate ICs

ps. it's also plausible scum!bone wanted to kill BM but was unable to since he knew BM was protected

[yessiree]

Moz/Yes are in the 'I could see them being too afraid to kill' camp, and at least Yes would have been right to do so. The fact that it has been so hard for BM to get this miselim on me gives me hope for both these players.

well, you underestimate how bad I am at this game, I know I was tracked last night and stuff, but the idea to no-kill never crossed my mind until Enchant literally proclaimed it in his first post day2.

[yessiree]

Raya, for what it's worth, I am a straight forward player. WIFOM is a bad tool and I don't set out to create it. Do with that information what you will.

I at least don't want you to be the elim today anymore I don't think. I'd rather go elsewhere and see what we can come up with with the info we get next night.

I can't seem to get rid of the thought that BM and T-Bone is TvS in some order and I'm being manipulated by one of you but that could just be my paranoia speaking.

If Moz doesn't make that much sense, and T-Bone is actually just town. And yessiree has a higher chance of being clear because scum could have killed then maybe nono is the best choice.

call me prejudiced against women but I just can't see this coming from a cold, calculating and cunning woman, pitting T-Bone against Battle Mage just so she can look like a paranoid townie trying to navigate through the destruction in its wake - it's notably genuine indecisiveness that stems from a lack of information on either party's alignment, which points to town!rayas for me

[yessiree]

I have iron reason to not eluminate T-Bone. This reason probably should be obvious, but still.


I'm... not fully understand, why you came up with this and what these talk about, well expect for T-BoneVSBM megafight, for which i already have good ideas. Like, i see votes from last day and Mozamis with Almost actually voted together, and when i hammered Almost, Mozamis even didn't acted pissed or probably noticed it.

So i am not understand, why mozamis is clear town.

I can also vote mozamis. cuz I still think elimming off A50's wagon is the optimal choice, and obviously I won't selfvote. So that just leaves TBone and mozamis as far as I'm concerned

(also F U for sniping that pagetop )

[yessiree]

I'm honestly banging my head on a desk because using the doctor action is negative utility against solo scum and you're out here defending it like it was the superior choice. It wasn't. It was the choice that allowed maximum WIFOM. Only one person benefits from maximum WIFOM and it isn't me.

Here's the plan I presented vs the plan we went with. Here are the facts.

BM's plan: protect himself, track someone else. No kill last night. We do not know for sure, whether scum no-killed or targeted BM.

My plan: Protect no one. Either BM gets killed and yessiree is confirmed town...or we know for sure scum no-killed.

I like how you're trying to argue after the fact that our plans would have provided the same amount of information but the FACT is it wouldn't have. Even if we still didn't have a kill last night, the fact that we would now know for sure what scum did is more useful then the nonsense you're trying to push. Frankly, we both wouldn't be in this situation right now had we went with my preferred plan.

And since you and I both know we wouldn't be in this 1v1. Why did you want your awful plan?

fwiw I think your plan would reveal more info now that I think about it

[yessiree]

I'm using hyperbolic language to get my point across.

It was my mistake not to fight harder in our council topic. We'd be in a much better place had I done so.

I'd argue you're deliberately lying to paint me in a negative light and paint yourself in a positive light. Hyperbole is like exaggeration for emphasis, not saying something completely factually false with no illustrative benefit. More like hyper bollocks

Is this what happens when you vote people in power and have them work together? You get the most pointless, annoying, and pedantic arguments ever about He said/She said/I said/We did/We didn't/I never said/. Actually feels like I'm watching k-drama dude.

There should be an option to SACK an entire council for all being omage bollocks

[yessiree]

Yeah, protecting no one was sane decision.

No matter how good and town someone looks, he could be mafia, even BM. So trading life of Townie-Townie for life of confirmed by track is insanely useful, so i don't understand what BM had.

Yeah, and I hope you will show more competence than the... officials we had, chucky

[yessiree]

Yassuse, while you here, how you think about posibility of bussing, especially from BM?

Would someone to actually vote Almost50 just because and who you suspect more suspicious in this?

There were a quite bit of interaction between A50 and BM on day 1 that did not look like S-S. And you were involved in a fair amount of them, so you should know

[yessiree]

Knowing BM expireince, it would be fabricated. But i really not sure, BM would save his teammate with easy.

It could be fabricated, sure, but it's a numbers game. And I think the chances of mafia not bussing A50 is higher than bussing A50. Speaking from experience, A50 also isn't a player you should get a strong read on early game, especially day 1, so from that logic, the wagon should be mostly town-driven. Also, mafia has daytalk, so I would assume any S-S interaction from A50 to be somewhat deliberate and have some direction, which isn't the case if you read A50-BM interactions, which tend to be more spontaneous.

[yessiree]

Woke up to 4 more pages of content, oh boy. Skimmed through, saw quite a bit of walls, so I need some caffeine in my system before continuing

Looking forward to it, oh scum suspect

[yessiree]

well yesiree looks more town than Nono at least.

wish I can say the same about you buddy

[yessiree]

I want to hammer.

But also doesh't want, because not sure if we should really.

What happened to onePUNCHman?

(if you're scum, I commend you for this posturing)

[yessiree]

I think killing T-Bone is... Bad decision.

Let me explain. We have tracks, as you remember. So, why not just track T-Bone?

If he is Mafia, he will skip/get catched. Either way we win or No Kill will happen.
Mafia will kill him and get rid of one of suspects for free.
Or Mafia will kill someone else, clearing T-Bone.

Why not? I find T-Bone powerful as Confirmed Townie. And stopping kill in theory could be useful.

you've been charmed by T-Bone's powerful charisma. Strong players will make you feel awful for trying to eliminate them, this much is given, and this is probably what you're going through now

As for your plan, seems ridiculous at first glance, but I get it somewhat after giving it some thought

[yessiree]

I mean, do you anticipate that your partner is gonna ghost you? I don't think I would.

If not Nono though, who are you looking at and why?

There's an in between though. A50 and Nono is too much.

I'm looking at you, if not yessiree, if not BM. Everyone else has a reason to be basically clear or highly townread. We eliminate you, get info overnight, reevaluate everyone's pools.

Do you think I'm scum or not?

You're flipping me for info??? If I was scum it would end the game, no info needed.

So if you don't think I'm scum, then there's no reason to flip me. This doesn't make sense.

Are you posting like you already know I'm town? What is this?

I know I'm not the first person to say this of T-Bone, but this screams 'scum thinking they were caught for the wrong reasons'.

Actually I don't get that kinda vibe from that post.

[yessiree]

Raya, for what it's worth, I am a straight forward player. WIFOM is a bad tool and I don't set out to create it. Do with that information what you will.

I at least don't want you to be the elim today anymore I don't think. I'd rather go elsewhere and see what we can come up with with the info we get next night.

I can't seem to get rid of the thought that BM and T-Bone is TvS in some order and I'm being manipulated by one of you but that could just be my paranoia speaking.

If Moz doesn't make that much sense, and T-Bone is actually just town. And yessiree has a higher chance of being clear because scum could have killed then maybe nono is the best choice.

call me prejudiced against women but I just can't see this coming from a cold, calculating and cunning woman, pitting T-Bone against Battle Mage just so she can look like a paranoid townie trying to navigate through the destruction in its wake - it's notably genuine indecisiveness that stems from a lack of information on either party's alignment, which points to town!rayas for me

I think that's a small leap. Raya had generally tried to stay out of that dispute, and when she had been involved, it was generally to agree with whoever was posting at the time. It was only later when she was brought into focus herself, that she was more actively engaged. So I don't think a hypothetical scum-Raya would have been required to do anything cold, calculating or cunning here - just use the obvious battle in progress as a route to 2 mis-elims. What stood out to me was her request that I volunteer to be elimmed tomorrow if T-Bone flips town - which fits that profile, and the narrative of scum who require mis-elims on the A50 wagon to win.

Scum would be more laid back and just watch the chaos unfold imo. I wouldn't expect this level of participation from scum!Raya. But really this was more of a tonal read at how she expressed she was afraid of being manipulated by one of you.

[yessiree]

Raya, for what it's worth, I am a straight forward player. WIFOM is a bad tool and I don't set out to create it. Do with that information what you will.

I at least don't want you to be the elim today anymore I don't think. I'd rather go elsewhere and see what we can come up with with the info we get next night.

I can't seem to get rid of the thought that BM and T-Bone is TvS in some order and I'm being manipulated by one of you but that could just be my paranoia speaking.

If Moz doesn't make that much sense, and T-Bone is actually just town. And yessiree has a higher chance of being clear because scum could have killed then maybe nono is the best choice.

call me prejudiced against women but I just can't see this coming from a cold, calculating and cunning woman, pitting T-Bone against Battle Mage just so she can look like a paranoid townie trying to navigate through the destruction in its wake - it's notably genuine indecisiveness that stems from a lack of information on either party's alignment, which points to town!rayas for me

I think that's a small leap. Raya had generally tried to stay out of that dispute, and when she had been involved, it was generally to agree with whoever was posting at the time. It was only later when she was brought into focus herself, that she was more actively engaged. So I don't think a hypothetical scum-Raya would have been required to do anything cold, calculating or cunning here - just use the obvious battle in progress as a route to 2 mis-elims. What stood out to me was her request that I volunteer to be elimmed tomorrow if T-Bone flips town - which fits that profile, and the narrative of scum who require mis-elims on the A50 wagon to win.

That's a fair analysis but you turning it around on me only swaps our positions and now what you said about me applies to yourself to some extent

I don't think it's an proportionate comparison, but this uno-reverse card made me chuckle

[yessiree]

Wifi issues here. Hoped to resolve soon but hopefully I won't be gone for too long

But when the world needed her the most, she vanished

[yessiree]

Besides the fact that I am still experiencing those issues, and I've flipped on tbone scum a long time ago and have been pushing for that to he town, and my preferred wagon nono as scum, I mean...

I'm trying to figure out which goddess you are supposed to be so I can make fun of your bootleg internet but the closest search result I got (Artemia) was Brine Shrimp

[yessiree]

Don't let BM blame me for "bad play", tomorrow. It was his solid play that got me miseliminated. Shortsighted, but solid.

I'm confirmed town now bitches, which means everything I've said is right. Study my ISO.

Ugh, please be scum so we don't have to subject ourselves to reading the dreaded back and forth between you and BM

[yessiree]

Enchant being killed should point to scum on the council. There's no way scum is bold, (or dumb) enough to target a council member when they know neither the tracker nor the doctor target

[yessiree]

I did my homework and re-read Tbone vs BM, especially #710, and I find BM's reasoning for pushing TBone to be disingenuous. The kill last night also reinforces scum!BM imo.

[yessiree]

I'm waiting for council info but as it is right now my pool is [BM, Yessiree] and if we get info telling us otherwise it would extend to [mozamis, nono]. Still feel pretty good about art.

I don't think we'll find much useful in interactions for Enchant. They were liked NKed for being near conftown

I think this is a pretty good outlook of the gamestate, minus me being in the pool of course.

I'll vote Raya + Arte + ideally me for council. And my pool is probably BM -> moz -> nono, in this order. I'll compromise on nono being on the council if I absolutely have to

[yessiree]

I did my homework and re-read Tbone vs BM, especially #710, and I find BM's reasoning for pushing TBone to be disingenuous. The kill last night also reinforces scum!BM imo.

can you talk me through both points?

It's late for me, so can't type a lot right now. But the gist of it is that your premise for pushing TBone is flawed from the beginning - it started from a misrepresentation of his motivation behind his choice of council actions and you continued down that path. In retrospect I shouldn't have skimmed because I would've caught onto it but I just didn't feel like reading walls at the time

As for the second point, I've already explained above. Killing a council member from outside the council is inconceivable, and since you, Arte, and Enchant were the council last night.

[yessiree]

I'm waiting for council info but as it is right now my pool is [BM, Yessiree] and if we get info telling us otherwise it would extend to [mozamis, nono]. Still feel pretty good about art.

I don't think we'll find much useful in interactions for Enchant. They were liked NKed for being near conftown

I think this is a pretty good outlook of the gamestate, minus me being in the pool of course.

I'll vote Raya + Arte + ideally me for council. And my pool is probably BM -> moz -> nono, in this order. I'll compromise on nono being on the council if I absolutely have to

I'd vote for me, art, and ideally not you

that's fine with me. You already know my position anyway

[yessiree]

I did my homework and re-read Tbone vs BM, especially #710, and I find BM's reasoning for pushing TBone to be disingenuous. The kill last night also reinforces scum!BM imo.

can you talk me through both points?

It's late for me, so can't type a lot right now. But the gist of it is that your premise for pushing TBone is flawed from the beginning - it started from a misrepresentation of his motivation behind his choice of council actions and you continued down that path. In retrospect I shouldn't have skimmed because I would've caught onto it but I just didn't feel like reading walls at the time

I don't really wanna spend ages debating T-Bone stuff again today, but that's total BS - I may have been wrong but my arguments in respect of him were entirely logical and his position on me was (in hindsight) just OMGUS.

Come back to it when you have time, and we can talk it through point by point.

As for the second point, I've already explained above. Killing a council member from outside the council is inconceivable, and since you, Arte, and Enchant were the council last night.

I guess it's that sort of belief which is why someone outside the council might kill on council - a risk, but maybe worth taking to get an NK on a solid town player and another mis-elim. Plus elimming 2 council members increases their chances of getting on the council. Also it becomes a bit WIFOMy, because why would scum on council kill on council if your suggestion was correct?

I wouldn't say you were logical. The push for TBone was illogical. I would say you were rational by showing a lot of conviction in what you were saying. That doesn't mean you can't be scum, because scum can also appear to be rational, and both you and TBone were making some valid points, so no one really picked up on the subtleties. I feel like if you were town, you would be more interested in re-considerikg the scumread on TBone, or at least humor the possibility of it being That.

But trust me, I don't want to torture myself to debate point by point either. And if you were scum, it'd be pointless anyway. But anywho, more later. Sleep time for me

[yessiree]

On the blue - I'm interested in what you now consider to be the valid points vs the false premises. It feels an easy claim to make to throw shade, but is there any credible substance behind it, or are you making it up (and hoping everyone else shies away from the detail so you don't get called out on it)?

The following bolded part is what I consider to be BM's premise for pushing TBone (TB). When TB's plan came to light, (doctor no one, and track within the council) the claim that it "would have guaranteed us no information" is strictly false, as his plan would have revealed that scum took no action in a no kill scenario. Even if no-killing was a reasonable play for scum, (and one might even argue it was an optimal play by scum, but I digress) it doesn't change the fact that not using the doctor ability would've confirmed this theory instead of leaving it up for WIFOM. The part that didn't make sense from TB was the idea that a no-kill would implicate the council members if one of them were tracked. This is what I mean when I said both of you were making valid points, but it doesn't change the fact that the premise was still flawed.

Spoiler:

Since I don't see any reason not to claim our results, I shall.

Last night we tracked Yessiree and protected me. so either scum no-killed or tried to kill me. But Yessirree went nowhere, so I'm bumping them slightly down the list of suspects. We should've tested whether some players would have thought of the no-kill option (i.e. if Yesiree-scum would have killed last night, the result could clear them). Nothing really worth sharing from the PT although we had a good discussion.

Main point of interest was T-Bone coming up with an odd idea for the night actions which would have guaranteed us no information

(not that we achieved much better) and Raya being pretty balanced and moderate.

Notwithstanding, I'm going to VOTE: T-Bone

HEAL: Battle Mage, Artemiana, Enchant

I wanted to protect no one, precisely to prevent what has happened to open Day 2 (WIFOM over the no-kill). I wanted to protect no one and track one of myself/Raya/BM. Why did I want this course of action? Because if someone got killed, it cleared whomever we tracked. If no one got killed, then it basically confirms one of us as scum (which from my perspective as town is an auto-win on Day 2 or 3).

I'm being kind with "weird plan" out of courtesy, but I'm genuinely baffled that you're still pitching this as a good idea after both Raya and I explained last night why it wasn't.

Firstly because, as Enchant noted in the first post of the day, no-kill was a reasonable play for scum, especially if they were off-council and didn't want to risk being tracked to the kill (i.e. a no-kill doesn't prove anything about the alignment of council members).

Secondly, tracking within those on the council is pointless because if one of us was scum, we would 100% just no-kill knowing we were tracked.

Thirdly, not using the protection would be a complete waste, given there are highly likely town who would be obvious NK targets.

On the red, can you point me to where T-Bone reconsidered his read on me, or humoured an alternative possibility? Even in spite of me pushing to engage with him on facts and logical argument (rather than AtE and hyperbole which characterised much of yesterday)? Spoiler: he didn't, but flipped town.

This seems a disingenuous statement to make to make light of yesterday's push. The circumstances that TB and BM were in were complete opposite on day 2. TB had very low levels of support in the thread (Arte didn't really count for having a low presence), and was on the back foot for the majority of the day - partly for being one of the off-A50-wagon elim candidates, and partly for being wagoned right off the bat by BM's push with support from multiple people. Despite these disadvantages though, TB did show an interest to re-consider the BM read and humour the possibility of scum!nono as shown below. Contrast TB with BM, who was in a much stronger position yesterday, virtually universally townread, but used that position to tunnel TB under the notion that eliminating elsewhere would be sub-optimal. If I'm wrong here, feel free to point it out.

Spoiler:

Unvote

Raya might be right, no reason for BM to no-kill, he's better than that.

Vote: Nono

Probably the only other player at this time I can see as scum who isn't BM.

I looked into the Moz/A50 interactions and idk, they seem almost too close to be scumbuddies. They both were pretty adamant about wanting the other in the council right from the start but that seems too obvious? Would scum not want to distance at all?

Well it seems no one else subscribes to that, since people are lol claiming that Almost50 got me on the council and that's why I am scum. tbh I should be confirmed town based on that interaction, because A50 was waiting for someone they knew to be town to give them permission to change some votes.

But alas here we are, with that interaction, the fact that I didn't quick hammer, and the lack of no-kill.... with practically confirmed town T-Bone at L-2. (sorry just a tad bit arrogant I know, but that's where my head is at.)

But to answer your question, I think scum will distance, if they can, but they aren't going to go out of their way to fake that kind of distancing, you know? If you're thinking Moz for example, is he the kind of player to be direct with a scumbuddy? I know from this game he's the type to both throw stuff at a wall to see what sticks, but also back down when challenged (I don't mean that as an insult Moz). Does that lend itself to purposeful interaction with a scum buddy?

The thing is there's enough wifom around scum!you no-killing to earn towncred and to avoid confirming a townie that it's still possible you're scum. And your plan for the actions wasn't that good which also adds to my suspicions.

More wifom I'm thinking about now though. Does scum!T-Bone who is at E-2 push me away from scumreading potential miselim!Moz?

Raya, for what it's worth, I am a straight forward player. WIFOM is a bad tool and I don't set out to create it. Do with that information what you will.

As for Moz, I am generally convinced that BM is scum, but I can't do anything about it. While I think Moz could conceivably no-kill, I'd have to rank him under Nono. I didn't want to harp on it, but Nono has 14 posts and is very passive and also not doing anything productive. I feel like if I am wrong on BM, then Nono would be the one. I know a couple of people said 'but Nono voted A50'...but so what? He voted A50 and never posted again. Look at this.

I will think about it, just can say about Nono: He probably will continue being nonactive/imitate so. Not sure if we really should kill him for this though. Like... I want. But is this will be worth it? How possible he is mafia?

0%) am town

not mad, but disappointed my council didn't get through
wondering why there's paranoia on art,, she feels good, to me, nothing pings me
cow is town,, from my pov, would have kept me as viable lim, not townlean me,, of course, this only reinforced if i die

thinking almost, almost has played with me before,, why am i scummy, almost?

VOTE: almost

Is this someone who was convinced A50 was scum? Maybe. To me, if we're looking like partner associations, this is classic 'let me vote my scumbuddy and ask them to explain themselves so I can unvote later when I like their explanation'. But then Nono never returned and didn't have a chance.

Despite my fervor such as in my latest post, I have to look elsewhere in case I'm wrong. I have one of two things I could pursue. For many of the same POE reasons BM could be scum also apply to you (and to me). Now, part of me thinks scum!Raya would be all over my elimination without a 2nd thought. I guess it's also possible you're pocketing me, but that's a dangerous game and I think you know that...and that's why I'm not pursuing you as the alternate to BM. There's no chance (assuming I don't get mislimmed) I'd allow either of you to LimLo without a tracker clear....and I feel like scum!Raya recognizes that. I don't know if that helps you or not. If you are scum then great job in convincing me otherwise!

There's a few things I'm also struggling with where you're concerned:

1. From a quick look at your ISO, you were a keen proponent of the T-Bone wagon...right up until it looked set to go over, and then you began walking it back a bit (although not with any commanding voice or obvious intent to derail it).
2. Knowing my own alignment, I figure scum would be very keen to fan the flames on the T-Bone-BM conflict. Mozamis (the only other player who didn't elim A50) did the exact opposite - pointedly trying to foster cohesion, and has continued that approach today.
3. Your claim today that scum off-council would not kill on council, doesn't accord with your claim yesterday that a hypothetical Yes-scum would have never thought to no-kill, given that you failed to note that there is no difference between killing on-council or off-council for an off-council scum, as we had telegraphed quite clearly that we weren't going to use the protect. Off-council scum would obviously kill on-council, so drawing up a false distinction to paint that as "inconceivable" to cover for yourself is a bad look.

1. TB and mozamis were the only candidate in my elim pool that were off A50's wagon. Since no one was pushing mozamis, it doesn't make sense for me to pursue any other elim target.
2. I think it would be anti-town to just forget what happened yesterday and not even consider the possibility of scum!BM. (which would cause TB to turn in his grave ) In fact, if BM's scum, this exactly is the kind of argument I'd expect them to use in this situation. And for the record I don't really TR mozzyman either for just brushing it off as TvT .
3. First, I don't exactly see what my claim today has anything to do with my claim yesterday. Second, even if council has telegraphed that doctor wasn't gonna be used last night, it's still highly risky for an outside-council scum to kill and risk getting tracked. Lastly, outside-council scum has no way of knowing if doctor wasn't actually gonna be used or not, since he has no way of knowing what the council ultimately decide to do. These makes me believe the possibility of scum being off council is extremely low.

[yessiree]

HEAL: BM, yessus, arte

That's what I feel like today's council pick should be in any scenario.

Based off what had happened last night, my bet would be that scum is outside of the council, and that scum tried, and failed to put a kill through. We have a clear, and this is what is going on in my mind in thoughts to that.

Enchant brought up the idea that, we hold onto the clear so the kill tonight would be telling.

At the same time, if, the past two nights the remaining scum is outside the council, I want everyone to give their ideas on what they think should be done today.

Let's also keep in mind that At0

also[/i[ didnt want BM in the council D1 and fought against him just as much as he fought against me being in the council.

I'm Inclined to tr BM based on that

What do you mean for the bolded part??? Enchant was literally killed last night.

I think scum has been deliberately trying to keep the numbers even. No killing night 1 made it 1:7, and killing last night made it 1:5. Part of me wants to no-lim today just to mess with this plan.

If scum is off council, I could only see that being mozza and nono. If we choose to elim off council, scum will likely no kill again to keep the numbers even and drag this out.

[yessiree]

Nono is track cleared let's move on

oh

The way I see it, scum is between

Yessus, Moz, Raya

If were going to go with the theory that scum tried to kill both N1 and N2 then it's obviously going to be Mozzyman Cuz like

Yessus would be cleared, and Raya would know who to shoot.

Between the three that were on the council D1 I would count on Raya playing the WIFOM game here because of the fact that, she is the only one that A50 did not have any comments on at any point of.the day. I also don't remember much of what Raya had to say about A50 either.

That aside, the actions Raya did d2 and her failure to clarify what had happened in the council thread and let BM and Tbone have a he said she said fight was incredibly weird and worth looking into

ohh

[yessiree]

Is it just yessiree and that whole T-Bone and BM thing was actually TvT? And if that's wrong then we just go for BM next. I still think by A50 interaction moz is semi-clear. And Art too.

And what if you're wrong on both me and BM? It's 1:5 now, elimming me + night kill makes it 1:3, which will already be MyLo (...MeLo? MILO?)

[yessiree]

I'll respond to Yessirree later, but I'm saddened that at least 1 town player thinks I tunnelled T-Bone like a moron yesterday.

it's only game, why u heff to b sad?

[yessiree]

Raya loooks more and more town, so council:

HEAL: Mozamis, BattleMage, Raya

Although if we lynch Nono, we won't need a council:
VOTE: NONO

Try and see the wood from the trees, people!

In light of recently transpired events, can't see the forest for the trees, mozzyman!

[yessiree]

Nono really needs to get his ass in here.

meant: your vote on bone today, I’ll take responsibility if wrong,, will self-vote tomorrow, quote me on it

no reason to not go for perfect win, as is possible, today,, seeing t-bone lie so blatantly hurts, is all xD

Nono, I know you probably feel really bad for the TB flip yesterday, but you're now a confirmed townie, so need your inputs on things

[yessiree]

Is it just yessiree and that whole T-Bone and BM thing was actually TvT? And if that's wrong then we just go for BM next. I still think by A50 interaction moz is semi-clear. And Art too.

And what if you're wrong on both me and BM? It's 1:5 now, elimming me + night kill makes it 1:3, which will already be MyLo (...MeLo? MILO?)

Kinda sounds like you want me to be too suspicious/worried to vote you now...

I'm not 100% sure BM is scum, and obviously I know I'm town. So why don't you reconsider this plan of yours for a second.

[yessiree]

Is it just yessiree and that whole T-Bone and BM thing was actually TvT? And if that's wrong then we just go for BM next. I still think by A50 interaction moz is semi-clear. And Art too.

And what if you're wrong on both me and BM? It's 1:5 now, elimming me + night kill makes it 1:3, which will already be MyLo (...MeLo? MILO?)

Kinda sounds like you want me to be too suspicious/worried to vote you now...

I'm not 100% sure BM is scum, and obviously I know I'm town. So why don't you reconsider this plan of yours for a second.

It's not me, it's not Nono, I doubt it's Art or moz, so it's you or BM, and a lot more people are saying BM is town than there are saying you're town.

And let's start from the top - do this thought exercise for me, I flip green, BM gets nked, who do you flip now?

[yessiree]

HEAL: nono, arte, yessiree

VOTE: no lim

[yessiree]

Been busy over the weekend. Will catch up tomorrow

[yessiree]

I'm not gonna vote BM (where is BM? MIA?) in the council, and I don't think moz makes good council (no offence but we need someone who doesn't change his mind every other post ), and obviously I'm gonna vote myself over raya. I can maybe see a world where mozzy makes council instead of me but I really think putting me in will be more effective

[yessiree]

HEAL: BM, Yessus, Nono

Probably the best bet for council. Let's not play wifom until we have to actually play wifom. More than likely scum tried to shoot both nights and hit protection N1

AND if we're gonna go with the notion that scum no killed N1 and was on the council N2 so they felt safe then like, I shouldn't be voted into N3 council.

Either way it's highly likely that scum wasn't in the N1 council.

I can sorta buy that theory, if scum is off N1 council and on N2 council, the only suspect would be... you. But I feel like scum!you would be less inclined to even bring it up and just try to get on the N3 council anyway, because it's within reasonable expectation that town!you would try to do the same

I would be willing to vote this but where is BM? The last post he made was 6 days ago... and we have like 2 days left

[yessiree]

HEAL: nono, mozami, yessir

rethinking, maybe,, it’s controversial, but the safest choice, imo

I don't see a scenario where town wins and mozzy is still alive

[yessiree]

it is what it is

[yessiree]

I still think we should vote mozamis today for strange interactions wih A50.
Unless scum no killed I'm conftown. Nono is track cleared. Arte is very towny
HEAL: T3, nono, Arte

hello hi

unless scum no killed I'm conftown as well

[yessiree]

I'm checking in. What's the deadline? And how's the votes looking like? Gonna be busy this weekend so don't have much time

[yessiree]

What council was hammered? BM slot, nono and artemiana? Should be ok I think.

[yessiree]

What. I thought we had more time when I checked yesterday?? I was gonna respond to stuff when I'm at work tomorrow

[yessiree]

And hello? Why are we elimming? Why are we elimming when there are even number of players? Especially when council isn't even hammered yet?

[yessiree]

God damn it, who even is on now? It's like 3 am already for me lol

[yessiree]

Unofficial

T3, yessiree, Nono (1):

Artemiana

Nono, artemiana, yessiree (2)

yessiree, Nono

Nono, Artemiana, T3 (3)

Lukewarm, Raya36, T3

Not Voting (0):

Remember, a valid vote for council will be three players within a heal tag, the council will be locked in when 4 players propose the same three person council.

Unofficial

Lukewarm (2):

Artemiana, T3

Yessiree (1):

Lukewarm

No Elimination (1):

yessiree

Not Voting (2):

Nono, Raya36

With 6 alive, it takes 4 votes to eliminate.
Day 3 will end without a council or an elimination in (expired on 2021-04-25 17:30:00)

I'm trusting this vote count

HEAL: nono, art, T3

[yessiree]

I did my homework and re-read Tbone vs BM, especially #710, and I find BM's reasoning for pushing TBone to be disingenuous. The kill last night also reinforces scum!BM imo.

can you talk me through both points?

It's late for me, so can't type a lot right now. But the gist of it is that your premise for pushing TBone is flawed from the beginning - it started from a misrepresentation of his motivation behind his choice of council actions and you continued down that path. In retrospect I shouldn't have skimmed because I would've caught onto it but I just didn't feel like reading walls at the time

As for the second point, I've already explained above. Killing a council member from outside the council is inconceivable, and since you, Arte, and Enchant were the council last night.

There was none of this coming from Yessiree on Day 2. Seems like he let that tvt arguement result in one town miselim, and then tried to turn it into a second one.

TBone was objectively the best elim yesterday given what we've already gone over many times. There was zero reason for me to cast doubt on that lim, because I also believed in TBone being scum. Of course, now it's different when you factor in the info from the flip, but hindsight is 20/20

[yessiree]

I don't understand why luke is pushing me with this much confidence. Like, if you're town, what if you're wrong? Me flipping green here is gonna implicate you, and 2 mislims is gonna cost the game.

[yessiree]

He could have safely assumed he was not going to be tracked two days in a row, so a night 2 kill would have been safe for him.

What even is this logic? Tracking me resulted in no kills so why wouldn't council track me again?

[yessiree]

And this is why TBone was correct that using the Doctor ability was a bad strategy. People are assuming Yess is town because he did not move when he was tracked, but because the doctor was in place, it does not actually clear him at all

What is this? Can someone help me understand this? Is he implying that mafia shot the doc target, so the tracked person, that took no action shouldn't be cleared????

[yessiree]

I am going to go through and point a few things I noticed about Yessiree, to leave for posterity assuming I am voted off today:

I think killing T-Bone is... Bad decision. {snip}

you've been charmed by T-Bone's powerful charisma. Strong players will make you feel awful for trying to eliminate them, this much is given, and this is probably what you're going through now

As for your plan, seems ridiculous at first glance, but I get it somewhat after giving it some thought

This is one of Yessiree's final posts of Day 2. Fully convinced that T-Bone is the correct vote, no sign of doubt on BM's logic, and even pressuring other people to hammer the vote

I did my homework and re-read Tbone vs BM, especially #710, and I find BM's reasoning for pushing TBone to be disingenuous. The kill last night also reinforces scum!BM imo.

And then his entrance into day 3. Immediately trying to to capitalize on the BM v TBone discussion to push a scum-BM narrative.

Is it just yessiree and that whole T-Bone and BM thing was actually TvT? And if that's wrong then we just go for BM next. I still think by A50 interaction moz is semi-clear. And Art too.

And what if you're wrong on both me and BM? It's 1:5 now, elimming me + night kill makes it 1:3, which will already be MyLo (...MeLo? MILO?)

Kinda sounds like you want me to be too suspicious/worried to vote you now...

I'm not 100% sure BM is scum, and obviously I know I'm town. So why don't you reconsider this plan of yours for a second.

But then Raya did not bite on the BM=scum line, and suggested instead that we vote Yes today followed by BM tomorrow. And Yessiree changed his tune, and started suggesting a no vote

HEAL: nono, arte, yessiree

VOTE: no lim

Do you not know that you can change your reads based on new info from flips?

[yessiree]

I'm not sure if this is even newbtown because this would be some really brazen scumplay by Lukewarm.

Optimal choice is still no-lim obviously so we don't end up in the limbo 1v3 tomorrow. Like it could still just be BM. T3 hasn't done anything in particular that made me consider otherwise. And if this is Raya scumgame then yeah, she's playing a good game.

[yessiree]

But then Raya did not bite on the BM=scum line, and suggested instead that we vote Yes today followed by BM tomorrow. And Yessiree changed his tune, and started suggesting a no vote

Can't believe I missed this one earlier. It's not our fault the guy who's supposed to engage with us today kinda just dipped you know? It would've definitely cleared some stuff up between BM Raya and me, but it never happened. And speaking of Raya, what are you even scumreading me for? This is slothful

[yessiree]

What now

[yessiree]

Woke up, still not dead

[yessiree]

God damn it, who even is on now? It's like 3 am already for me lol

Not all of us live in Siberia

You should retake grade 10 geography

[yessiree]

But then Raya did not bite on the BM=scum line, and suggested instead that we vote Yes today followed by BM tomorrow. And Yessiree changed his tune, and started suggesting a no vote

Can't believe I missed this one earlier. It's not our fault the guy who's supposed to engage with us today kinda just dipped you know? It would've definitely cleared some stuff up between BM Raya and me, but it never happened. And speaking of Raya, what are you even scumreading me for? This is slothful

My problem is everyone is playing very town-like. I'm not even scumreading anyone in my pool. I just think by interactions you make the most sense as scum

Don't think that's an accurate assessment of the game state at all. But it looks like you've already made up your mind, and aren't willing to change that so whatever

[yessiree]

Well it looks like we are going without an elim today, unless the mod holds everything and replaces out Nono

Please no. This day has dragged on long enough. It's time to bring closure

[yessiree]

Ugh. Well, I tried my best

Council should probably track either me or yes, and then not use the doctor ability

Council should track and doc whoever the council decides tonight.

[yessiree]

And hello? Why are we elimming? Why are we elimming when there are even number of players? Especially when council isn't even hammered yet?

I am against a no-elim today. Even through we are on an even number, we can go back to an odd number if the mafia no-kills again or if the doctor ability is successful.

I would prefer a miselim on me over a no elim tbh.

You want the doctor to be used here but next post you tell them not to use it. So which is it? You're standing on 2 boats and trying to set sail here.

[yessiree]

@Yessiree, please vote for me, so that I can self hammer if I need to!

I'm not gonna vote you so you cannot do specifically that. Also don't self hammer as any alignment.

[yessiree]

@Yes, I think the PoE really brings it down to you or me, so I really think one of us needs to die today, and then let the council info clear/incriminate the other.

Poe is a double edged sword. Especially when you start off on the wrong foot.

[yessiree]

@Yes, I think the PoE really brings it down to you or me, so I really think one of us needs to die today, and then let the council info clear/incriminate the other.

Poe is a double edged sword. Especially when you start off on the wrong foot.

My point was that the logical poe brings it down to you and me, BUT we had a clear path towards dealing with the suspicion on BOTH of us, without losing the game.

If we kill one of us today, then that person is gone. And then tonight, the council could track the other one. At that point, either the mafia would kill, and completely clear that person, or they would no kill which would buy us an extra miselim before we lose. Literally, either outcome is beneficial for town. It lets us deal with the PoE candidates AND still have a kill left if the PoE had somehow been bamboozled.

Like the only possible outcomes were clearing the most suspicious player left (you or me) OR gaining another free elimination before ELo

By not voting one of us off, then (if by some miracle neither one of us are the scum) then the council cannot clear both of us, and one of us is going to be left to be the scapegoat for the real mafia.

If you are not mafia, mafia just no kills again to solidify your elim next day. Gaining 2 mislims for free, and we are right back to another round of Poe. We no-lim here to let council do its magic. I had a plan if I got on the council but obviously that can't happen now.

[yessiree]

@Yessiree, please vote for me, so that I can self hammer if I need to!

I'm not gonna vote you so you cannot do specifically that. Also don't self hammer as any alignment.

I am generally a strong believer in not voting for yourself, UNLESS the alternative is a no-elim, which is ofter worse for the town then a mis-elim

The issue with that is the basis that we are gonna lim me next if we are wrong about you. So from my pov that's obviously a failed plan from the start.

[yessiree]

@Yessiree, please vote for me, so that I can self hammer if I need to!

I'm not gonna vote you so you cannot do specifically that. Also don't self hammer as any alignment.

I am generally a strong believer in not voting for yourself, UNLESS the alternative is a no-elim, which is ofter worse for the town then a mis-elim

The issue with that is the basis that we are gonna lim me next if we are wrong about you. So from my pov that's obviously a failed plan from the start.

Except that is not how it should have played out.

If we voted me, then the council would track you. If the mafia kills, then you are 100% cleared. If the mafia no-kills, then we gained an extra free elimination. Yes, you would go into tomorrow undersuspicion, BUT we would have an extra miselim before we lost.

As is, we are going to go into tomorrow with me pushing pretty hard for you, so youre still under suspicion, but now we have not gained a free elimination.

...

We don't gain any free lims by elimming today. How is this so hard to understand? You get the same number of lims in a 1v5 and 1v6, sans any night action shenanigans.

And yes mafia can NK a conftown but we also generate one more conftown in the process, while also narrowing down the Poe.

[yessiree]

I am strongly getting the impression that you are valuing you personally not getting voted out over the town winning this game. Which obviously does not help me stop thinking you are scum...

Let's say we elim me, mafia kills nono, you are track cleared going into 1v4. I don't trust you enough or anyone else to find the last scum between the remaining players. At the same time, I don't think elimming you wins the game for town, so if one of Arte/BM/Raya is cleared, I also don't trust them enough to find the last scum either.

[yessiree]

You're saying the poe is between you and me like it's a matter of fact. Who decided it? You? Me? Raya and her "interaction clears"? Half the playerlist that's barely participating?

But you're right, I should've voted for you. I didn't because I hated voting someone who's openly claiming that he's gonna vote himself. So I admit that's my mistake. Chalk it up to Sunday late night 3 am panic posting.

[yessiree]

And I've been saying that the poe is wrong, the poe is wrong, to you and to Raya, multiple times. Reconsider, no one listens. So here we are.

Nono is the only clear. No one else is cleared. Clearing Arte and T3 over something A50 did is a reading into wifom and, quite frankly, playing into A50's hands, if this is something scum planned, because no way A50 expected to be elimmed that quickly on day 1. If A50 survived and one of Arte or T3 ever flips red, he can carry that cred all the way to LiLo. You openly admitting you TR Raya is still a read, it does not constitute a clear in any way, but even I admit if she can steer clear of so many player's poe she is playing a good scum game.

When you see an opportunity for town to gain information moving forward, I see mistakes and stubbornness to re-evaluate.

[yessiree]

Like my slot was the most suspicious slot for both T3 and for Artemiana

Deadline in a day.
This might be an oversimplification but unless we all got played by Raya it's basically autowin.
VOTE: Lukewarm
Lukewarm hasn't been particularly scummy but the previous player in the slot was really bad.

As it stands raya is a paranoia push. It's all makes sense for the game to end after Moza dies and if not then we'll go down that road then

And your slot is the most suspicious for me and Raya

Is it just yessiree and that whole T-Bone and BM thing was actually TvT? And if that's wrong then we just go for BM next. I still think by A50 interaction moz is semi-clear. And Art too.

And I came up with a plan where we could get both of those alignments revealed before Elo. If any one was right, then congrats, we win. If every single player in the lobby was wrong, then its probably a good thing for us to know that for sure before ELo. I cannot understand why town would be so opposed to that plan.

You are starting to sound like a broken record, haha, yes your... plan, let's see

Where do I even start - for starters, it's a passive mindset, you think since players are under suspicion, they must be flipped, that's being passive - you're bending backwards to conform to other people. Whereas the active mindset is to engage with players who are suspicious of you and make them change their mind. Your plan is taking a copout, it's passing off responsibility to other people instead of taking matter into your own hands. That's why I don't endorse it. That said, I can see why you think it's a good plan, because you replaced into a scummy slot, and you obviously can't speak for your pred. Not me, I've been here the whole time can speak for myself thank you very much.

I can tell you what the plan should've been, the initial plan was to sort BM/Raya at start of this day, because the TBone flip that people seemed to forget now was a pivotal moment for this game, that never happened. That was plan A.

You think no-lim was my plan and blame me for the nolim How many votes were in play? You're seriously gonna blame my lone vote for nolim when you guys failed to get a majority on neither council nor elim before the deadline. You think your plan is so great that it'll solve the game, so why didn't you vote yourself if you're so inclined? All that empty posturing and no action. If I hadn't decided to check my phone at 3 AM on a Sunday night there wouldn't even be a council Nolim is not the best course of action, I admit that. That's not my best plan. But then town apathy is also not my plan. So is failing to reach a consensus on who should be on council 2 hours before the deadline.

The plan you came up with after replacing in and getting an incorrect read on the gamestate hardly matters to me at this point. It is so far down in the list of plans we should've pursued ages ago that If I had to assign a letter starting from "A" for each plan in descending order of priority, I don't even know where it would end up

[yessiree]

Yes, I'm kicking myself now for not leaving my vote on you. I thought the deadline was gonna be on Monday cause I read somewhere where Raya said deadline was in 2 days when I checked in on Saturday my time, so I thought I had enough time to check in at work on Monday.

[yessiree]

If I was mafia I would concede here out of sheer boredom. We are almost 2 days past deadline. The listmod is probably gonna step in soon. I simply don't have the patience to drag this one out as scum. Whoever is the mafia is should just concede so the players aren't held hostage.

[yessiree]

As you should

[yessiree]

Why did you guys not track within {lukewarm, me}? I feel like that much should be obvious given the context of the previous day.

Also, a night kill last night strongly points to scum on the council again, so that means the BM/T3 slot is confscum from my pov.

[yessiree]

VOTE: T3

[yessiree]

Why would I kill off Arte who is more likely to vote lukewarm over me?

If I'm scum I'd kill Raya who's fixated on SRing me and TRing lukewarm, that leaves nono, arte, and myself which is enough to vote out luke

[yessiree]

lol, you think I'm bluffing here? Killing Arte would be straight up a blunder on my part, not yours or any one else's for that matter.

[yessiree]

I want to hear what nono thinks but I'm definitely leaning yessiree. If not then Lukewarm and T3 1v1 next day and whoever is unfortunate enough to survive between me and nono will have to choose

might as well say,, art insisted we use no-protect, so we did

what do you think that says? looks like off-council scum,, although it's possible t3 scum set it up to look that way,, art was a good kill
looked through raya's post, and agree, almost seems too closely tied to mozami, i think,, don't know about other two, but we don't have to know

I want to make sure you guys are certain when you say mozzy is interaction cleared with A50. Is it from reading A50's ISO? Cause reading from mozzy's ISO that's definitely not the conclusion I came to.

[yessiree]

Why do you think it's T3. I don't really see why you think the last scum had to be on council based on the NK

I think BM is more likely than mozamis from my early day 3 read, while T3 hasn't done anything in particular to change that, but lukewarm has at least shown an attempt to game solve.

[yessiree]

This is the post where I went over it. I went both ways. Let me know what you think. 1009

I'll go over this later

[yessiree]

as long as you get T3 tomorrow, whoever lives between raya and nono.

[yessiree]

I appreciate the sentiment but it's not possible today unless you can convince raya to vote T3.

lukewarm is already voting me, RAYA is the swing vote but she is voting me already, T3 can come in and hammer at any moment

[yessiree]

If Arte is alive instead of raya, maybe we can get T3 today, but alas, she's swimmin' with the fishes

[yessiree]

I believe T3 is hammered already by luke.

[yessiree]

I believe T3 is hammered already by luke.

@yessiree, did we win?

Yes, if you're not scum

[yessiree]

sigh of relief

[yessiree]

You know, I had a feeling the scum team was handpicked instead of randomly selected.

[yessiree]

You could've made it more difficult if you no-killed, which would've kept it 1v5 and kept the same number of conftowns. No killing meant the tracked target isn't gaurenteed to be cleared. Could even spread suspicion to scum being off council and killing the doctor target.

Then going into day, there would still be Luke vs me, with it being very unlikely for the lim to go elsewhere, but it depends on how the 1v3 is gonna go between you, Raya, Arte and luke I guess

I think killing last night made it easier for town actually