Micro 1002: Dark Waltz III - Game Over!
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look this setup designed by pooky may be the perfect dance setup because it fixes the problem of just playing by poe but keeps the dance mechanic and inherent low nk pure dayplay aspect of dance which makes it perfection
its very layered
its very deep, there is a lot of thought needed behind how to form the optimal pairings, high scum density reminiscent of secret hitler, winning as town is hard but possible but scum have lots of counterplay etc. neighborhoods are required, hydra aspect, lying might be good etc.
and mom is out here, looking at the sand mandala and letting a fat fart rip u know- OkaPoka
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ive thought a lot about how id play this as scum before roles got distributed and truth is, after analyzing this setup
scum is very favored on status quo, the onus is on town to improve their odds and as such scum should be basically waiting to see how town tries to optimize and react accordingly you know
basically what im saying is id wait and see what town comes up with, if they lol pair the counterplay is obvious, let them lol pair- OkaPoka
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what does that mean u do realize that every action taken affects everyone else?In post 81, unwnd wrote:
Let people decide for themselvesIn post 78, OkaPoka wrote:ok unwnd how do you propose we play this then- OkaPoka
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For deletionIn post 186, Harley Quinn wrote:
Why?In post 55, OkaPoka wrote:i absolutely agree mom and unwnd should be paired- OkaPoka
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In post 46, unwnd wrote:Why try to force confrontation this soon even though we're not even past page 3In post 74, unwnd wrote:I think Oka is a kooky chicken man and Mom reaching out to familiarity are both non-talking pointsIn post 94, unwnd wrote:What mom did was objectively bad? I wouldn't say I townread it but I didn't mind the initiative. That's where me and Mr. Bones disagree
what is thisIn post 97, unwnd wrote:
Hypothetical question for you--In post 96, OkaPoka wrote:i think pairing doesnt really matter that much other than finding the 3 scummiest player to put in a box and lim because first trio-ing isn't perm
What seems more likely
1) Scum wanting to get into a trio quickly
2) Scum waiting to see what town does and working around it- OkaPoka
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well im not saying its confirmed mom is bad but for page 9, its a good place to start at right? the way im thinking and the way we should all be thinking about the game right now is: which three people do we want to kill today? i think putting mom in that group of three right now as a starting off place, aint too shabbyIn post 207, Harley Quinn wrote:
If it helps I played in DW 2 and shellyc wanted to be paired up immediately but so did Gamma.In post 206, OkaPoka wrote:okay so now the dust has settled thoughts on having mom being in the dead triad- OkaPoka
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let me explain how we are going to play this setup:
phase I (today) - form 3 groups of 3, group 1 is the lim group aka top 3 scummiest players we will always kill. group 2 and 3 don't really matter just need to make sure we split apart the weirdos who don't get with the program. stack the votes so we always force group 1 to die.
phase II - we force out group 1 basically
phase III - please don't do anything here
phase IV/V - we repair in 3 groups of 2 and the game reduces to a standard dance etc. find top townpairing and kill down a list- OkaPoka
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but also even if i ever townread all three of you in that trio its still a pretty bad trio not that it matters too much
hectic is a wildcard
you are showing temptations of playing with the suicide button and honestly i doubt full commitment to a gameplan when we get to phase II
aaron is a full ???. if im right on the alt guess i suppose it'll be fine but play so far does not give much faith the compliance
basically the only qualities for group 2/3 is i need 2 babysitters for each memer- OkaPoka
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How u gonna do this if u dont know the setupIn post 224, DkKoba wrote:In post 223, Harley Quinn wrote:In post 34, Momrangal wrote:Koba, Unwnd. Would you like to dance with me?
Pedit: nora isn't playing i don't think
So these are the requests.
@Koba why make a request this early?
all will be revealed in due time but theres a strong possibility i push this pair for me through EoD- OkaPoka
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okay im going to do a small writeup on this setup to hopefully clear the air on how we should play this
to understand the theory behind the setup, i think its helpful to have a little bit of so-called, historical context.
what pooky has designed is a take on fakegod's dance setup, you can see a link to one of the signup pages here (with all instances of fakegod running it): https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12319607 and the most recent iteration here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=84956
the general idea of the setup is people pair up and then we daylim pairwise, scum get a total of 1 pair nk, also there is an ic
you can do your own clicking around etc. its a pretty important part of site history imo, but ultimately if you look around you are going to notice a very interesting trend, being that with no change whatsoever, this dance setup over the course of a few years has seemingly gone from a scumsided setup to a broken townsided mess. as a result fakegod has most recently upped the scum count in what used to be a historically scumsided setup and town still eeks out a victory. pretty strange right? you can blame meta awareness but fakegod's hidden alt iteration of the game also has resulted in some close town wins so that is not exactly all to blame. what is really going on is that town has noticed a small optimization in the way to process playing dance setups, its not really about scumhunting, its about townhunting!
what do you mean okapoka?
well what i mean is that how these dance games should be played should be reduced to a simple problem: sort everyone by towniness and pair them up that way. then it becomes crushing. the scum wincondition is now entirely on being a top 2 townread. there is counterplay but it involves a very risky playstyle and it ultimately reduces down to have two scum being top 4. that's still hard as fuck in a 17player game. of course its a little more complex than that but you get the gist, operating under these assumptions rather than the old, lets pair up and sort each other and play it out like a normal nightless fundamentally alters everything.
okay so here comes pooky. pooky has run different iterations of dance before, this is merely another iteration. he's micro-vised it. and most importantly, what he is trying to do is tackle the new fundamental problem of all dance games, being that scumhunting is pretty much useless and all you have to do to win is find a few townies and just chain lim the game. if you look at the phase I mechanic, it presents scum with a very significant chance of outright winning the game, if the first lim is on three townies they win. which seems hard, but if we lolpair up it becomes close to random and that's no bueno. why is that no bueno? because here comes the second mechanic of all dance games: the infamous suicide. suicides are pretty much the death sentence to town, only town suicides and each suicide is basically saying the probability of me hitting scum is higher in two people than in three. that's what you are doing when you suicide, its fundamentally unsound and yet, townies love to be a hero and lolpairs only incentivize this hero play because there is so much uncertainty. we need to make sure we don't lolpair. and now, we this new setup, its actually about scumhunting again! at least for today. explanation below
look guys i know flirting and sorting by neighborhodds is tempting and all, but trust me, about nobody has actually succesfully neighborhood sorted before. plus phase I isn't really about pairing. i want all the dance experienced to remove the notion that this is a normal dance game at least for phase I. if you look at what phase I from a problem point of view, what it reduces to, its not your typical dance style. what it really is equivalent to is flipping 3 people at the same time, that's what phase I is all about. our aim and only concern right now should be to find which three people we are limming first, our secondary concern is finding the trio groupings for the people who aren't going to be eliminated. these pairings aren't permanent. they dissolve as soon as we lim the 3 baddies at which point we become a normal 6p dance. im not saying townhunting is not good anymore, it still is! but now in pooky's world if you are going to solve purely by townhunting, you can't just find like 4 town out of 17, making a decision pretty much requires finding 6 town which becomes... scumhunting by poe.
so tldr:
right now the only thing that should matter is finding the 3 people we want to lim most. stop thinking about this as a dance game, its not really. at least - not yet. - OkaPoka
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