newbie 2060: creatures, game ofer
Forum rules
- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
Greetings Gentlebeings!
catching up!
But before I do that, where did you go, Bell?Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
I kinda like this from Egix. Which is interesting, because I was predisposed to view him with squinty eyes. We'll see where this goes.In post 65, Egix96 wrote:
Saudade feels town so far - I can imagine the gears turning in his brain when I read his posts.In post 43, Clasko wrote:UNVOTE: Ivyeo - They spoke; I'm happy.
S'ppose I'll poke an SE now:
VOTE: Egix96 - Hi. Feeling any town vibes from anyone? Or too soon to say, do you reckon?
I guess the above question applies to anyone who's around, really...
I'm feeling tempted to put Ahri in null-town for memeing about being scum, though admittedly it's a bit shaky.
Is Wheme simply being voted for making an apparent self-contradiction in his first post? Personally, I'm not finding that to be an issue, on a "scum would be more careful about contradicting themselves" level.
As for you, Clasko, I'm curious as to what your own thoughts are - considering that you haven't played in a long time, I imagine you would be eager to contribute.
This post gives me townfeels. I like that he's put down early townreads. That's a lot of reads to potentially walk back if scum.In post 86, Clasko wrote:
The two aren't mutually exclusive from where I'm standing. If anything I'm more nervous due to being out of the game for a long time.In post 65, Egix96 wrote:considering that you haven't played in a long time, I imagine you would be eager to contribute.
(/T) - Town-lean:In post 65, Egix96 wrote:I'm curious as to what your own thoughts are.
(/T) on Demainer AND WhemeStar - their argument feels cyclical and non-scripted = less chance to be W v. W; also sparking discussion evidenced by Ivyeo's 79.
(/T) on Lukewarm - contributes to discussion and I like the tone of their posts.
I'm forming opinions on others that I don't want to give words to just yet. Stay tuned.
I kinda don't like Lukewarm and Demainer based on posts through page 6. Although I do like Lukewarm's 143? Gives me a sense of why he was pushing so hard to get someone to E-1 & claim and that point - that the game's pacing is different from what he's used to.
I kinda like Saudade's page 7 run of posts. Before that, not so much.
I love Saudade's reaction to the Wheme wagon re-gathering steam on page 11. But, I really hate Bell's entrance and his going a day without posting. Real life is a thing, though.
Demainer's posts bug me a lot. The Ahri nk looks like PR hunting to me, and could point to an SE slot, but we have some newbies in this game who are clearly not inexperienced.
Ivy's kinda wishy-washy but not overtly scum to me.
My townreads are egix, and Lukewarm, and I'm taking clasko's claim at face value. I'm glad I got to the egix read before seeing the cop clear! I might be firing on more than a couple cylinders this game!
I don't do hero solves, but this is day 2 with only townflips so...scum team Bell, Demainer? I want to look closer at the Saudade/Demainer interactions on day 1.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
Hmm. That page 7 I liked was Saudade going after Demainer.
maybe not.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
I like your thought process, but I'd be really surprised if Clasko is fake claiming under no pressure to speak of.In post 351, Lukewarm wrote:Okay, I have been thinking about the two possibilities,
1)Clasko is fake claiming
If someone counter claims Clasko, then I am leaning towards if being Clasko + Demainer, but I will need to see who counter claims to really form a hard opinion.
2)Clasko is the cop
That clears Clasko and Egix.
Leaving: - Bell - Demainer - Endlessdark slot - Ivyeo - Me
If no one counter claims Clasko, I am less pressed on it being Demainer, because a good portion of my suspicion of him came from Demainer and Clasko both appearing to clear / pull suspicion off of one another. Those worries would be assuaged.
To me, that would indicate that there is 0 to 1 scum between Demainer and Ivy. I do not see Demainer and Ivy being a pair, they have both voted the other, and in Demainer's case at least, it was done before there would be a need for scum to bus one another.
That would mean that there must be 1 to 2 scum between Bell and Endless dark (from my PoV, I don't need to consider me as an option lol) Before this analysis, I had Saudede listed higher on my scum/town scale, but now I am looking back under the assumption that at least one of Saudede or Endlessdark were scum. I noticed that Saudede made it clear that he did not think it was Ahri or Wheme on Day 1, and tried to push the vote towards Demainer. This kinda makes me a bit less suspicious of him seeing as how both Ahri and Wheme did in fact flip town. That narrows the gap, so I now have him and endless at about the same place for me.
So now I am looking back at Bell/Saudede's posts and Endless's posts based on the assumption that one of them is bad, and with that in mind the possible pairs from my PoV mind are:
- Clasko + Demainer (if Clasko is CC)
Endlessdark+ almost anyone Like I could see him paired with Ivy/Demainer/orSaudede
SaudedeBell + Ivy
Endlessdarkhave not yet chimed in
If Demainer and Bell don't make sense as scum together based on Saudade's page 7, that puts Ivy in the frame for me.
I'm gonna have to meta Saudade for partner interactions, I guess.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
In this game, Saudade doesn't interact with his scumbuds and doesn't vote them. He said he was playing differently from usual due to out of game reasons. He trolled quite a bit.
This game is similar - very little interaction, no vote on scumbuds.
This isn't a full meta dive because I'm mostly interested in just figuring out if Demainer/Saudade make sense as a scum team given Saudade's page 7.
My conclusion is they don't make a whole lot of sense as a team given Saudade's most recent scum games.
But I definitely don't townread Bell. :/
I might wind up meta-ing a few more games.
-----------------------
@Demainer
Can you explain why you think Saudade/Ivy make sense together?In post 340, Demainer wrote:With Saudade and endless both disappearing and not posting for a while, it's a bit difficult to figure out the last scum. I can see Egix and Saudade being w/w with Ivyeo.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
Bell, maybe I'm being too hard on you. You did post something similar to your reads list here in the Warehouse 13 game.
I disliked the post because it's kind of esoteric for a newbie game. That plus 3 posts after you replace in and nothing since then looks a little low energy.
Real life, though.
I need more from you.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
I don't totally hate the possibility of being mis-elimed as long as I get plenty of time (e.g., a good sized chunk of this 48 hour extension) to analyze the available (sparse-ish) data and interact with the player list. But, I'll probably get pretty snarky if it does happen.In post 364, Lukewarm wrote:Therefore, I think that our best option moving forward would be to target either Ivy or fferylly today (sorry, I know you just got here)Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
Do they make sense as a team to you? Because you're scumreading town atm.In post 366, Egix96 wrote:
Yes.In post 355, Clasko wrote:Does this mean you believe the remaining wolf is in Ivyeo/Demainer?Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
As I said, some of the newbies here may be new to MS, but show a level of game sophistication that isn't new to mafia. You, for instance.In post 368, Demainer wrote:I am quite certain on Ahri being an anti-spew kill, not a pr hunt. But, in either case, whether it's for antispew or pr, neither option is obvious to a newbie. There are more obvious targets in the thread, like Luke, who was both active and widely tr, or an se. Killing a newbie who has barely posted anything at all isn't something I'd expect from a 2x newbie team.
The kill does kinda make sense as anti-spew, but I feel like Ahri would have been a possible miselim based on her day 1 play, which would have to be weighed up as well.
I tend to be meh about spew, though. One of my few skills as scum is misdirection regarding my partners.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
In post 291, Ivyeo wrote:That's a great kill for town no?
This doesn't feel to me like something a scum player pushes about their nightkill. especially an anti-spew night kill.In post 307, Ivyeo wrote:
How was Ahri not a good kill for town? Not only was she a VT, but she was someone with plenty of suspicion on her.In post 303, Demainer wrote:Ivyeo:\Her single D2 post does not read town to me either, at all. There was no way Ahri's death N1 was a "great kill", it was clearly an anti-spew play (which is also why I'm considering whether we have an SE in the scum team). Simply another post that doesn't contribute any sort of hard info on the game.
There's stuff I don't like about Ivy's iso, but I dunno about these posts coming from scum who killed Ahri.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
I feel like you're walking around my entry into the game.In post 373, Egix96 wrote:Ivyeo's mentions of endless are too few to make a solid conclusion.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
My role PM says your vote is wrong.In post 377, Egix96 wrote:
Convince me that my process of elimination is wrong then.In post 376, fferyllt wrote:
I feel like you're walking around my entry into the game.In post 373, Egix96 wrote:Ivyeo's mentions of endless are too few to make a solid conclusion.
I scanned my predecessor's ISO and the first 10 or so posts convinced me I'd be getting a town role PM.
Aside from me, your POE may be right, which is why I asked you if Ivy/Demeaner make sense to you as a team.
My townreads are Clasko, you and Lukewarm. Bell maybe? I tend to be suspicious of his first few posts in games and then eventually his reads/stances just become near-unequivocal town to me when he's town. He's in the suspicious zone right now, but remembering that post he made about Prism in the Warehouse 13 game does put his reads list into a more townish light.
If Demeanor and Ivy are both scum, though, Demeanor's doing an ungodly amount of distancing for no apparent reason when I'm apparently miselimable despite my own read of my predecessor!Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
I'm going to wind up with nothing but wisps and sunbeams if I keep rereading. :/
Demainer's posts, iso'd, look better than my readthrough impression. He's put way more data into the game than most players have. The tempo of this game has really benefited scum, I think and I feel like I should be townreading effort to make things happen given that tempo.
Anyway, I just really like this post defending Lukewarm.
This was a pretty nuanced position on Ivy/WhemeIn post 178, Demainer wrote:I don't find it problematic that Lukewarm posted 3 scumreads instead of 2. If he's on the scum team, then of course he'll know there are two scum in the game, so why deliberately draw attention to himself by ignoring that? Unless he wanted to make a point that he did feel that 3 players were scum, which is NAI.
And no specific preference between 3 scumreads is still a lot better than no reads at all.
In post 183, Demainer wrote:Ivyeo and Ahri both give me bad vibes. They're posting very cautiously in the thread, Ahri hasn't said anything material at all, and Ivyeo seems to be creating an "I told you so" position to defend herself before WhemeStar's flip.
It does make me a bit less certain that Wheme is scum, because based on that, Ivyeo and Wheme can't be on the same team. But I'm sticking with my vote because I trust my gut feeling.
I feel that something is off about Clasko as well, but they've been active in the game posting reads and sharing their thoughts, so no strong thoughts on this one way or the other.
I also like the Clasko read in this day 2 list, given it occurred before the claim.In post 303, Demainer wrote:If you're scumreading me for apologizing to Wheme, then so be it, it's your choice. I was convinced our scum team was Wheme + Clasko, but with Wheme flipping town I've gone back to the drawing board and re-iso'd everyone.
Lukewarm: Wheme's flip hardspews Luke as town, this is the most certain read I have so far. It's possible that Luke went for an extended scum play, but I feel that's highly unlikely given the stage at which Luke spewed.
Clasko: I went into the D1 flip thinking he was lockscum, but now I've re-iso'd him he comes off as town. It's only a lean though. His "slip" on me and Wheme does not read scum to me now, and his D2 activity has been giving me good vibes as well, I see someone trying to figure things out rather than trying to force town into a conclusion.
Saudade: I can't read him. Most of the posts are one-liners, and in the ones that do offer some insight into his position on other players, it's mostly just vomiting reads without much of an explanation. Having said that, I do get the feeling that he's genuinely trying to get a read on other folks, and I don't see any kind of tmi posting (again, could just be that he's good at hiding it), so I'm very slightly leaning town here, though I'd be more comfortable with a null read.
endlessdark: Null for me. Not getting any scum pings here, but also not seeing any evidence that they're town.
Egix96: The only thing I have to say here is that he's gone after both of my current town reads/leans, and his reaction to Ahri's death seems forced. Lean scum for me.
Ivyeo: I'm hard leaning scum on this one, her entire D1 iso is essentially fossing everyone without truly committing to any sort of read (and when asked to provide them, hid behind the "I'm bad at it, don't want to lose us the game" excuse which hardly holds, you either have them or you don't). Her single D2 post does not read town to me either, at all. There was no way Ahri's death N1 was a "great kill", it was clearly an anti-spew play (which is also why I'm considering whether we have an SE in the scum team). Simply another post that doesn't contribute any sort of hard info on the game.
His wheme trajectory is kinda tunnelly, but not to the exclusion of discordant data.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
One thing I really don't like about this reads list is that Demainer is in the "don't seem to care" section wrt enthusiam.In post 332, Bell wrote:Caught up.
People that care but might be good scum:
Lukewarm.
Egix.
People that don't seem to care in order of enthusiasm.
Endless dark
Demainer
Ivymeo.
ClaskoAmid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
Bell, Ivyeo?Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
That was my POE.
If I weren't still obsessively F5ing this thread in hopes of seeing a Bell post, I'd probably have a vote down right about now.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
No. Demainer is not who I'm thinking about voting.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
vote: BellAmid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
Unsurprising as either alignment, but you're not being adoraBell.
Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
Why is demainer in the unenthusiastic group?In post 381, fferyllt wrote:
One thing I really don't like about this reads list is that Demainer is in the "don't seem to care" section wrt enthusiam.In post 332, Bell wrote:Caught up.
People that care but might be good scum:
Lukewarm.
Egix.
People that don't seem to care in order of enthusiasm.
Endless dark
Demainer
Ivymeo.
ClaskoAmid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
I almost offered to replace into your slot, but I couldn't quite townread it. I replaced into this slot about 50% because you joined and about 50% because I read my slot as town. Endless came off very town to me in the early game, sliding from rvs to srsbsns. I particularly liked his equanimous reaction to being early-wagoned.In post 398, Bell wrote:Why did you replace into this game FF?
and why did you think your predecessor was town?Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
That's a pretty good description of tunnelling. I saw some nuance to it on second read.In post 397, Bell wrote:To me it looks like he's running on autopilot, just pushing whoever and saying whatever. He is emotionally engaged, hence why Wheme seemed to think he was "tunneled" but I just think of him as like an NPC in marioparty on a stage where they just sort of run at you to try you knock you off the platform with 0 deviation or algorithmic pathing. Like an arrow.
Do you think scum would be unhappy with the game's overall energy level?Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
Obvs because I like playing with you and I think you should be relatively easy to sort with a little time! Re fish friends, it's sadly just not a good time for a large theme game, especially next week, although it's not as bad as when I bowed out. A newbie at the end of day 2 is a totally different level of commitment.In post 401, Bell wrote:I replaced into this slot because I thought it was a scum slot.
Boy was I surprised (I'm kidding, I didn't read this game before I replaced into and just wanted to play a newbie game and hang out with some unfamiliar faces).
Why did you join because I joined? We could have been fish friends, but now you're 39.33333% likely to be scum.
I look forward to swimming those turbulent seas sometime soon, though.
I have an incredible record of correctly reading newbie game slots I replace into. I guessed wrong once, on an SE slot. This game wasn't a wrong read. Factor that into your 39.33333%
IF you're town.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
I agree Demainer is experienced. He's not trying to hide it. There was still nuance in that wheme tunnel. I also really liked his observation about Lukewarm that I called out in an earlier post.In post 402, Bell wrote:Yes, scum are extremely unhappy with inactive games with inactive towns. They just hate that.
I don't agree, Demainer seems like an SE more than a newbie.
It was going back and seeing the nuance, seeing the Lukewarm observation, and thinking about his participation rate during a dragging, low-energy game that broke down my own initial scumread.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
How do you feel about Ivy?Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
My point, which I doubt you missed, is that Demainer is actively working against the inactivity.In post 402, Bell wrote:Yes, scum are extremely unhappy with inactive games with inactive towns. They just hate that.
I don't agree, Demainer seems like an SE more than a newbie.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
I'm not pushing against Egix. Even in the highly unlikely event that clasko is fake claiming, egix is almost certainly town.In post 407, Bell wrote:I don't see any obvious anti-tunneling measures in Demainer's posts. SE's usually have those when they're trying.
What do you mean by how do I feel?
They constructed a blameless vote and argued that they were being very consistent this game with almost no trace of irony in their posts. They're very green.
Your push against Egix is off, why did you feel the need to push at him? You'd read the game beforehand right?
I didn't read the game beforehand, just my 2 potential isos.
I had a townread from his day 1 posts, and then discovered in the first readthrough that two of my townreads were near-confirmed.
I'm pushing egix to reevaluate his read of my slot and think about his POE from that perspective, though.
I also wish he'd take the mantle of near-confirmed SE and lead a little, even if it leads toward elimming me, but that's a playstyle thing, and I've seen enough of his play to feel that he's not likely to do that.
So, my goal is to figure you out since if you're town you will have to stick in an oar here.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
regarding anti-tunnelling measures, I don't necessarily expect to see that.
This post was what I saw as nuance in his wheme stance
Wheme is an easy player to misread, even for experienced players. I *think* I have a handle on his towngame, but I haven't had an opportunity to test myself yet.In post 183, Demainer wrote:Ivyeo and Ahri both give me bad vibes. They're posting very cautiously in the thread, Ahri hasn't said anything material at all, and Ivyeo seems to be creating an "I told you so" position to defend herself before WhemeStar's flip.
It does make me a bit less certain that Wheme is scum, because based on that, Ivyeo and Wheme can't be on the same team. But I'm sticking with my vote because I trust my gut feeling.
I feel that something is off about Clasko as well, but they've been active in the game posting reads and sharing their thoughts, so no strong thoughts on this one way or the other.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
move and steer our little boat.In post 410, Bell wrote:Stick in an oar?Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
Have you meta'd me recently? I have some scumgames out there in metaland.In post 409, Bell wrote:I haven't missed much, you're playing a standard game where you started out by posturing and communicating your intent to all before voting me and asking leading questions, positioning yourself so that your reads are aligned with the most active people while pushing at the least active.
It's pretty blameless stuff, if I asked you why you'd say you wanted to inject life into this game and I would literally never be able to tell the difference between that and just getting town read and picking to side with those that have the most influence. It feels samey.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
I was thinking earlier that I don't think you've ever played against scum-me unless it was as a hidden alt or something.
Also, not sure you've met replace-in ffery. I'm not the ball of fire I used to be as a replace in, but I do tend to grab the available data and run with it.
damn it. I'm already talking to you like you're town.unvote:
I'm not sure how I'm going to go about sorting Ivy. :/
pedit: oh well. see you when you can show up again.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
I really try not to lead with my questions, though it's hard sometimes. Given my reaction to your 3-post replace in contribution, I'm not surprised I gave this vibe, though.In post 409, Bell wrote:leading questions
I remember Diamond Sentinel reacted this way to some of my questions in the smokefilled game. Which should alarm me, but you're Bell, so.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
There's a literal-mindedness to Ivy's posts that I kinda vibe with, but there's so much of it, and it's not changed a lot as the game has progressed. There's also a stilted formality that feels like she thinks about what she's going to post pretty carefully.
These 3 posts:
In post 56, Ivyeo wrote:Whilst I do see the scummyness in Wheme's posts, I'm not sure we want to cut Day 1 discussion to right here.
So, post 56 was "the obvious", and Ivy didn't see what he meantIn post 77, Ivyeo wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by this exactly?In post 67, Saudade wrote:No no no........................!
it's the need to state the obvious that pinged me
And yet in her very next post she's explaining something Demainer posted to Wheme that to me seems to be about the same level of abstraction as what she didn't get from a post about her.
In post 79, Ivyeo wrote:He's not neccesarly saying Dark isn't scummy, he's saying you are *more* scummy than dark, we want to execute our most likely scum do we not?
^^ I townread this when I did my first readthrough, especially where she was talking about her reads. I felt like she was showing her analysis, and although it's not really deep analysis, there's definitely some thinking-through that seems efforty for newbscum.In post 103, Ivyeo wrote:
Being honest, this mostly comes from being worried because my reads were *basically* 100% wrong last time I played, and I don't want to cause us to lose again. I have some reads but I'm not sure if they hold any water? Like I had bad vibes from Wheme but then their defense made me less confident in that, and now them trying to keep pushing defensively isn't feeling very towny to me, but again that's just kidna vibes and also nothing special for how town has been feeling. I had a town read on Clasko for example, because the whole W/W thing felt good, but also them saying they town lean *both* of them instead of "picking a side" makes me like them less. I still think I need more time to really have anything scum reads at this point, as I feel less sure on Wheme, but part of that may be a thing from the other games I play, as they're generally more strict on behaviorial stuff.In post 90, Lukewarm wrote:My scumreads are Whemestar, Ivyeo and Clasko.
Ivyeo does not seem to be contributing much to the conversation, and what they are sending is very wishy-washy. Their messages so far have been a vote, a quick unvote, and then this one:
They just seem like they are being overly cautious, which I feel is more likely with a scum then a town.In post 56, Ivyeo wrote:Whilst I do see the scummyness in Wheme's posts, I'm not sure we want to cut Day 1 discussion to right here.
On a Fourm this is my second game, as said earlier first I got Mis-elim'd in F4, and But I'm pretty active in *other* social deduction games such as BoTC, though that feels more information based and less read based. I've also did Video mafia for a few weeks, but stopped as I didn't really vibe with it.In post 98, endlessdark wrote:In post 84, endlessdark wrote:
I'm sleepy and will elaborate further tomorrow, but take into account that she's a newbie. Her posts don't yet strike me as needing-to-state-the-obvious (filler?) in a scummy way.In post 67, Saudade wrote:No no no........................!
it's the need to state the obvious that pinged me
If Ivyeo is not an experienced player, I can see stating things in a more-than-necessary clear way as expected. Ivyeo, what's your experience with mafia?In post 85, Saudade wrote:No but this tell was usually what newbies fell for while the veteran gods (me) knew to avoid it
but video mafia for a few weeks, depending on frequency could be a fair bit of game experience even though video/in person is fast and pretty different from text based/forum mafia with long game days.
This points up something that ran through the earlier posts, too. While not confrontational about it, she takes a lot of interest people scumreading her. The lack of confrontation seems a little off.In post 142, Ivyeo wrote:
Do you not have preferences between the three of us? Your post makes it seem as though you just want to eliminate someone rather than anyone in specific, and you gave the three names that town appears to be most willing to eliminate right now.In post 137, Lukewarm wrote:
Yes its page 5 (well 6 now), but we are also on the 6th irl day for our in game Day 1. Maybe I am just not accustomed to the pacing of games on this site, but it feels like we are approaching the point where we just have to pick someone. Like there is only so much info we can really gain in day 1 until we force someone to claim, no?In post 112, WhemeStar wrote:I don’t like how you are set on me being the flip on page 5
I am getting pretty antsy for us to l-1 someone just so we can gain new info. Force someone to claim their role, then decide if we want to actually hammer the person based on what they claim. I mean if we wait to much longer, then if we L-1 someone, and decide we shouldn't hammer them, we won't even have long to form a new wagon.
I am not necessarily saying that I think it needs to be you, I would be happy for us to L-1 anyone on my scumread list tbh, so for now, I am gonna be on the biggest wagon between Whemestar, Ivyeo and Clasko.
VOTE: Ivyeo because I have sat on the Whemestar wagon for a while, and the Ivyeo wagon is the same size, so might as well mix it up lol
In post 166, Ivyeo wrote:
Whilst I am somewhat back and forth, my logic for it is consistent. My most recent vote on Wheme I took back because I didn't really have a strong reason to have a vote on him. It's more a gut feeling than anything so I decided I didn't want to be voting based on that. Tomorrow I plan to go back through some ISOs to try to form a more solid opinion, as I currently don't have a definite idea of who I'd want to go for.In post 164, Clasko wrote:
- Ivyeo: - /M - Too back and forth on WhemeStar now, especially after the interaction with Lukewarm.In post 86, Clasko wrote:I'm forming opinions on others that I don't want to give words to just yet. Stay tuned."My logic is consistent" I'm not sure what you meant by your logic was consistent. The rest of your post doesn't lay out a logical progression, consistent or otherwise.
@Ivy
This next post shows concern and initiative about the deadlline approaching with the biggest wagon at E-2. Kinda want to townread that.
I think this one was in reply to Wheme asking her about her Demainer read.In post 238, Ivyeo wrote:Unoffical Vote Count
WhemeStar (3): Demainer, Ahri, endlessdark
Demainer (2): Saudade, WhemeStar
Ahri (2): Ivyeo, Lukewarm
Clasko (1): Egix96
not voting (1): Clasko
With 9 hours left, what are we thinking?
In post 272, Ivyeo wrote:Town lean. With the clarification that his feelings haven't changed the inactivity is fine.
^^ This whole post is just kinda eh. She's gone from townreading to scumreading Demainer without a whole lot of explanation beyond that he confidently tunnelled wheme. And then the rest of the post is setting up a scumread of egix. The effort vs where the vote goes doesn't feel great.In post 341, Ivyeo wrote:Rereading, I think my evil team would be Demainer>Egix. Luke would be my other valuable (town) read as I've agreed with most of what he's said, and he's pushing the game forward and importantlyDisscussing with the town what to do and why.
Demainer appears to be playing with the mindset that we will be executing what he wants, and not really pushing the discussion forward except toward what he's started to tunnel. Whilst he has a high post count, it's mostly been tunneling Wheme, who was a VT. I can't fully explain why all of this feels scummy, as it could also just a very tunnely and confident towny, but it just kinda *feels* scummy to me as opposed to that.
Egix I would more like an explanation from, as I found some of his posts a bit off. Most specifically...
Despite the fact Clasko said why he was voting Egix.In post 167, Egix96 wrote:
I'm finding it hard to see how what you've written about me resolves to a scum lean overall, especially since you seemingly liked my 65 enough to warrant unvoting me.In post 164, Clasko wrote:
Probably about time I did this now:In post 86, Clasko wrote:I'm forming opinions on others that I don't want to give words to just yet. Stay tuned.
- Egix96: - /M - Whilst I think his questions and contributions are helpful to town, they feel finely placed and thought-out... not enough to use the word "artificial" though..
.
They just wanted you to speak, then you tried to paint it as "liking the post enough to unvote," which is atleats disengenious. It's fairer to say they didn't dislike the post. This post,In post 43, Clasko wrote:UNVOTE: Ivyeo - They spoke; I'm happy.
S'ppose I'll poke an SE now:
VOTE: Egix96 - Hi. Feeling any town vibes from anyone? Or too soon to say, do you reckon?
I guess the above question applies to anyone who's around, really...
Also feels like you're almost using someone who may be a bit akward and trying to phrase it in a way that makes them look scummy, though ig akwardness could be a source for a read so anjdkwahdkjawIn post 172, Egix96 wrote:
Like, I could definitely see this being an "It's not just because I randed scum, honest!" sort of post.In post 95, Clasko wrote:If I'm answering truthfully, from my perspective, my nerves come from interacting with 8 strangers on the internet playing a game I love, but having outdated experience in.
Also, in response to being scum-read/bad reads, whilst I feel they're inevitable in every game, yes, I am afraid of making mistakes and looking bad. I also hate offending people and try to avoid it in games I'm in at all costs.
Ethier way, I still feel Demainer more on a gut level, on top of what Luke was sayign, especially the Night kill stuff, which very much rubbed me the wrong way, and felt like it was trying to make me defensive. Clearer mafia mindset than with Egix.
VOTE: Demainer
I'll also try to rereread for a read (god awful sentece) on the others tomorrow, for now it's 5am and I haven't slept aaaaaaaaa
And that's the last real post of substance.
I come in and go from a null read to a POE scumread within a page and the comment it elicited was something about if I was going to put her at E-1. Not much interaction with my predecessor either, beyond that talk about e-1 vs e-2 and answering a question about her Demainer read. I can see Endlessdark maybe fading into the wallpaper, but I've been a loud presence and I'm kinda surprised that didn't generate more ~something~.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
For clarity, I mean that I go from a null read to a POE scumread on herIn post 418, fferyllt wrote:I come in and go from a null read to a POE scumread within a pageAmid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
I'm going to go through Luke's posts either tonight or tomorrow morning.
We're at about 37-38 hours on the clock.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
If you have questions for me, post 'em. I've put a fair bit of content and thought process into the game to pick at.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
That's not something I answer with an argument. That's something I prove with my play.In post 426, Demainer wrote:Why are you not on a team with Ivy?
(Before any complaints, I know it's loaded, it's the whole point)Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
I have a predisposition to scumread stuff like the bolded. Which is why it took a Page 7 for Saudade to shake off my initial reaction to his play.
Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
How do you think a player like Ivy would have reacted to a scum partner coming in with a null-town read and then in the course of 4-5 hours, with no interaction, switching to a POE scumread?In post 428, Demainer wrote:That's not what I asked. Why do you think I should think that you're not on a team with ivy?
If necessary, it can involve an analysis of your own play.
What was your read of Endless?
I'm not sure how she would react to something like that if that were what's going on here.
There's a fatalism that's creeped into her day 2 play that I didn't really feel in her day 2.
I realize I'm not answering your question. It's just not how I think about a game, especially one like this. As town, my interactions are all necessarily Town vs (??) with an occasional exception.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
in her day 1In post 430, fferyllt wrote:I didn't really feel in her day 2.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
eh. I was hoping for more real-time interaction, Demainer. :/Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
No, my statement assumes I can't possibly not be town. There is no subterfuge in what I've posted. The only way I have ever seen anyone form a useful read on me is by seeing me interact with data and form my own reads. I wasn't here in the moment from the start of this game, so the next best thing is to just read the previous posts and react to them, and then interact with new data as it hits the thread. Usually players figure me out when they can follow my trajectory and see how I've come about my reads. The process is extremely compressed here, but I feel like I'm putting more than enough into the thread to be readable.In post 435, Demainer wrote:I would still like a response to my question.
Why are your interactions all necessarily town? That statement already assumes your interactions could potentially not be town, so why isn't that the case?
Bell saw what I'm doing and characterized it in a way that I disagree with, but I can see town-him thinking that about my play here because it's catch-up play.
It's always interesting to see that kind of stuff through a different lens, but it's a whole lot more interesting after the fact when Iknowthe player's alignment.
I still don't think I'm answering the question you're trying to ask and at this point it's not really clear to me what you ARE asking because the re-asks don't clarify the asks. but maybe there's something useful in the answer you're getting.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
Teamhunting really isn't my strong suit but I think it's critical in this gamestate. If I can't find a partner for Ivy, I'm not super comfortable about voting there.In post 437, schadd_ wrote:Spoiler:
vote count 2.3
Ivyeo (2):Demainer, Lukewarm
fferylt (2):Egix96, Bell
Demainer (1):Ivyeo
Lukewarm (1):Clasko
not voting (0):fferylt
with 7 alive, it takes 4 to eliminate a player. day 2 ends april 16th at 3:30 central US time; in (expired on 2021-04-16 03:30:00)
- ooba
Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
Who do you think is, and why? You intimated you think it's Bell or me.In post 438, Demainer wrote:Who do you think is on the team?
Which flip clarifies the most?Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
I'm not going to be awake much longer tonight. Tomorrow I'll be able to spend most of the day on it and I want as much of the available time till deadline as possible to work on this.
Please, no early hammers. I'll just go ahead and call it a scumclaim if someone prevents my finalized reads from hitting the thread before this day ends.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
Do you remember Wisdom or was he before your time?In post 444, Egix96 wrote:
If Demain is more experienced than I thought he was, then his push on Wheme was just terrible. It's something I can see coming from inexperienced town (personal comparison: 1898 Egix) but once you're past the early spike of the Dunning-Kruger curve you should know that you can't just mindlessly tunnel someone until they just die.In post 404, fferyllt wrote:
I agree Demainer is experienced. He's not trying to hide it. There was still nuance in that wheme tunnel. I also really liked his observation about Lukewarm that I called out in an earlier post.In post 402, Bell wrote:Yes, scum are extremely unhappy with inactive games with inactive towns. They just hate that.
I don't agree, Demainer seems like an SE more than a newbie.
It was going back and seeing the nuance, seeing the Lukewarm observation, and thinking about his participation rate during a dragging, low-energy game that broke down my own initial scumread.
I've known more than a few experienced players who deathtunnel. And some who use their deathtunneling reputation to advantage when scum, for that matter.
There are a few other signs of experience, but the strong opinion about Ahri's NK being antispew vs PR hunting suggests experience to me. I think spew terminology migrated to MS from MU, but the concept of low-info kills has been around for as long as I've been playing mafia.
No, I'm not asking you to speculate on partners with me. You can entertain that idea all you like, but it's a waste of time that I'm not going to dignify.In post 446, Egix96 wrote:
Ohhhh I thought you meant if either of them made sense as a partner with you.In post 378, fferyllt wrote:
My role PM says your vote is wrong.In post 377, Egix96 wrote:
Convince me that my process of elimination is wrong then.In post 376, fferyllt wrote:
I feel like you're walking around my entry into the game.In post 373, Egix96 wrote:Ivyeo's mentions of endless are too few to make a solid conclusion.
I scanned my predecessor's ISO and the first 10 or so posts convinced me I'd be getting a town role PM.
Aside from me, your POE may be right, which is why Iasked you if Ivy/Demeaner make sense to you as a team.
My townreads are Clasko, you and Lukewarm. Bell maybe? I tend to be suspicious of his first few posts in games and then eventually his reads/stances just become near-unequivocal town to me when he's town. He's in the suspicious zone right now, but remembering that post he made about Prism in the Warehouse 13 game does put his reads list into a more townish light.
If Demeanor and Ivy are both scum, though, Demeanor's doing an ungodly amount of distancing for no apparent reason when I'm apparently miselimable despite my own read of my predecessor!
I'm about 70% confident that Demain/Ivy is not svs. Am I right in thinking that your level of confidence is a bit higher than mine, based on the end of what I'm quoting here?
I spent some insomnia hours thinking about Ivy partners and I'm having trouble coming up with one. I'm going to spend a little time looking at Saudade/Ivy interactions again.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
Saudade's level of interaction with Ivy and Demeanor don't feel partnery to me, given the two very recent scumgames I looked at yesterday. He's competent as scum and doesn't appear to hate rolling the alignment. I feel like scum-Saudade was more likely to continue playing than town-Saudade was in a game with this level of activity, but it's not a very informed opinion, more of a generic take based on players I think are similar to him.
I'm not happy with Bell's level of engagement, but I did kinda like how our sparring last night went. My gut thought I was talking to town-Bell, though my brain isn't completely on-board. I'm thinking back over our recent games where he was town and I don't usually townread him right off the bat. Eventually he posts enough content that I can see some of our reads converge and that's usually when the townread solidifies. There isn't going to be time for that this game day, and I can't make this a full-throated townread based on his activity alone.
I think this is the first time I've played with replace-in Bell, and it's not an ideal game for developing a yardstick given the low content and his availability.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
I'm looking a lot harder at Lukewarm because if I'm right about Saudade and I'm right that there isn't an obvious partner for Ivy which decreases her scum equity, then Lukewarm is in the frame. If he's town, then I'm wrong about Ivy.
There's a missing piece of the puzzle if you're trying to figure out my reads. My Demainer townread has degraded and I'm considering him as scum.
Reading through Lukewarm's ISO, every stance and stance change is well telegraphed, and well thought out. And that alone actually pings on a non-surface level. Lukewarm is playing a cautious game. And that may be a personality thing but maybe not.
It reminds me a little of my first mafia game at MS. I drew scum in my first newbie. I had about 4 years of experience playing on other sites with much shorter game days, and I decided to play the game like I was a semi-experienced player who knew the lingo but had sort of naive ideas about scumhunting. My theories were solid (though not very imaginative) and my trajectories were flawlessly telegraphed. And the one big ping anyone mentioned the whole game was about a post I would have made as town without hesitation to deflect attention from an obvious PR. Anyway. That was a strategy I could only use once at MS and it worked great for that one game.
I don't usually look for "too perfect to be real" play in newbie games, but my other reads kind of force this issue.
The other possibility I entertained last night is that Demainer came into day 2 thinking that with 2 town deaths the scum team was somewhat exposed and mega-distancing was called for. This would explain how passive Ivy has been, maybe, if she's being bussed.
So, my theories are: {Demainer, Ivy}, {Demainer, Lukewarm} which leads to me voting Demainer today.
Barring PR data suggesting otherwise, I think Demainer has to be the elim tomorrow if y'all go elsewhere today.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
Also, if I'm wrong about Saudade and Bell is scum, then the nature of interaction between Saudade and Lukewarm make a {Bell, Lukewarm} team possible, and both Demainer and Ivy unlikely scum partners. This is actually my nightmare scenario if tomorrow is 3-2 elo.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
She is voting him, so there's that.In post 451, Egix96 wrote:But then again, why isn't she fighting back if they want to leave as much distance as possible? Even if it's an intentionally weak push just so that it doesn't risk Demain going down first.
I expected her to switch to me at some point though, since I became her counterwagon. It makes sense for her to do that as either alignment. And it makes sense for me to vote her, as well. I just can't see her as the most likely scum in this gamestate. Your vote changes that dynamic, but that was where my head was at when I saw the last VC.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
My insomnia brain worked overtime last night, so I don't feel like I have much more to say about what's transpired in the game. I did some thread data checks to see if I could poke holes in my theories this morning, but that's basically done. Although my reads could change based on what hits the thread going forward, don't feel like you have to wait on more catch up from me at this point.In post 442, fferyllt wrote:I'm not going to be awake much longer tonight. Tomorrow I'll be able to spend most of the day on it and I want as much of the available time till deadline as possible to work on this.
Please, no early hammers. I'll just go ahead and call it a scumclaim if someone prevents my finalized reads from hitting the thread before this day ends.
Egix, in terms of your deep wolf scruples, if you want to see where my theory thoughts come from, you can read my wiki Terms of Art regarding trajectory analysis. It's kind of a corollary of the last paragraph of that section. Lukewarm's play borders on that. And like I said, I probably wouldn't go there if I felt there were good candidates for Ivy partners. Demainer's the only possible candidate to me, and that's not a slam-dunk.
I feel like the gamestate leads to my slot as the likeliest candidate for an Ivy partner, but my role PM says nope. If Ivy's flipped and is town, I don't think that clears me to the extent that my flip could clear Ivy, and that's the source of some extremely unwelcome fatalism on my part. If Ivy is town and she's flipped today, I feel like I'm still a strong miselim candidate for tomorrow at elo.
On the other hand, if I'm flipped then my reads become confirmed town reads and I hope that town players would give them some serious weight on day 3.
Egix unvoting me (at least for now) changes the calculus somewhat, but I'm not convinced it's a good thingtm for town if I'm alive on day 3.
fatalism is a terrible drug, kids. don't do it.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
One of the three of us is almost certainly today's elim. if you're town then Ivy's scum equity necessarily goes up. But, I don't know that. I have to extrapolate from the thread data.In post 457, Demainer wrote:
This is something I'm more willing to revisit tomorrow when ivy flips scum, hopefully a blocker so clasko has another night result.In post 441, fferyllt wrote:
Who do you think is, and why? You intimated you think it's Bell or me.In post 438, Demainer wrote:Who do you think is on the team?
Which flip clarifies the most?
ivy is my most certain read, i'm not going to go for either you or bell for the sake of getting "info", my objective is to clear scum first.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
Have a look at my user title. trajectory is my thing and I made it a thing at MS. Some people fetishize VCA, which I'm never going to put much stock in unless it's a trajectory-based analysis of wagons. Which I hardly ever do, myself, because it's insanely intensive in most game settings.In post 458, Demainer wrote:
My opinion of end/sau hasn't changed, I still find sau's posting slightly more positive. ff is not villagery at all, it's all a pseudoconspiracy trying to prevent ivy from being elimed so the scum team can both block the cop and nk someone else, probably the confirmed town egix. Tomorrow they can case bell/ivy w/w and luke dw again.In post 445, Egix96 wrote:
Which of their predecessors do you think was more towny iyo?In post 423, Demainer wrote:who's the second scum, is it bell or ff hmm.............
Anyway I'm metaphorically giving you my strongest "math teacher staring down a rather long nose at your sad algebra attempt" look over your pseudoconspiracy characterization.
[quote="Demainer"
Which three?[/quote]
Ivy, you and me.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
quote fail.
Ivy, you and me.Demainer wrote: Which three?Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
I can't be scum with Ivy because I'm town.
End of discussion afaiac.
Demainer, Ivy's last post kinda nailed something for me and I was going to just go ahead and vote you here and now.
This is kinda your last chance to convince me that's a bad idea. Discrediting me isn't going to do it for me.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
I've been in the game a little over 24 hours and I've been reading and rereading isos obsessively for most of my time spent on the game.
This compresses my thought processes, and mercurial read changes are a side effect of processing speed.
I feel like I've put plenty of reasoning down, though, whether you like how I reason or not!
Egix and Clasko are the only reads I can't make myself reexamine, though I have a tiny niggle in that Clasko seemed to soften their scumread of Egix before the end of day 1, and yet that's who they copped. But, I have a couple theories on why that could happen and I'm not interested in poking there at all.
Saudade's play here vs his 2 recent scum games makes that slot less likely scum IMO. Outside of egix/clasko the only player I think makes sense as scum with that slot is Lukewarm just because of the minimalist, reactive way he interacted with scumbuds in the games I looked at.
And that's why my reads are what they are.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
If you're town, then my nightmare scenario may be real. :/
I really wish I had more sorting time with Bell because I would love to be able to take that scenario off the table.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
and on the gripping hand, you're a small but significant part of my feeling that miseliming me today is better for town than me being alive, and I really wish I didn't feel that way because it clouds my perceptions of other players. I don't self-vote, but I definitely don't fight my elim as hard as I could when I feel this way.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
My thoughts on the last few posts that aren't mine:
Demainer didn't jump at the opportunity to move to me, which lowers his already low-ish probability of being scum with Ivy.
Lukewarm did move to me, which increases the probability of Lukewarm being scum overall, which also increases {Lukewarm, Bell} probability, imo, which makes me sad because I really wanted to be correct about Saudade-town. Of course, The possibility of {Demeanor, Lukewarm} is still a somewhat indeterminate cloud of probability to me.
I'm in the interesting circumstance of being able to analyze my wagon pre-flip, and I'm going to use it to the fullest extent possible during the next few hours. And I want this info to be thought about tomorrow when more alignments are facts in evidence. quite possibly including my own!Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
I didn't make a post about my thoughts changing because the thought-change was a result of your inaction, which I couldn't predict for sure.In post 474, Demainer wrote:
You literally had me and ivy as the most probable scum team, said you were going to vote for me on that basis, and now I'm not scum with ivy?In post 473, fferyllt wrote:My thoughts on the last few posts that aren't mine:
Demainer didn't jump at the opportunity to move to me, which lowers his already low-ish probability of being scum with Ivy.
Lukewarm did move to me, which increases the probability of Lukewarm being scum overall, which also increases {Lukewarm, Bell} probability, imo, which makes me sad because I really wanted to be correct about Saudade-town. Of course, The possibility of {Demeanor, Lukewarm} is still a somewhat indeterminate cloud of probability to me.
I'm in the interesting circumstance of being able to analyze my wagon pre-flip, and I'm going to use it to the fullest extent possible during the next few hours. And I want this info to be thought about tomorrow when more alignments are facts in evidence. quite possibly including my own!
And apparently, the probability was "already low-ish"?
Lampshade to the max.
And you're demonstrating that you don't really understand my thought process:
-- Ivy's behavior doesn't make sense as scum because of her day 2 paralysis.
-- If she is scum, the only player I think she makes sense as scum is you and that would involve the Demainer/Ivy team thinking that the N1 kill not being a PR puts them in a bind and they need to distance. And you are the more valuable scum role.
-- You don't make sense as scum with Saudade, based on what I've gleaned of Saudade's scum play.
-- Therefore if you are scum, my best guess is scum with Lukewarm, and a much lower probability of scum with Ivy.
You not voting me lowers your overall likelihood of being scum, and your reason for not voting me -- that Ivy is a stronger scumread -- lowers your probability of being scem with Ivy even more, when there's a viable alternative to either of you being elimed.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic- fferyllt
-
fferyllt SheTitan of Trajectory
- fferyllt
She- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 19412
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Pronoun: She
- Location: Left Coast
I still think the Ahri kill makes sense as PR hunting, possibly with some fear of a protect/jk interfering with killing someone more universally townread. As scum I certainly weigh threat-to-my-team with likelihood-of-protection. N1, scum knew more about the game design than town did. They still do, since they know if they are 2 goons or not.Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.
On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologistIdic - fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt
- fferyllt