newbie 2060: creatures, game ofer

[unwnd]

Hey ffery and everyone else

I haven't read much of anything but did feel like ffery/bell (myself) could be potentially warring against another as tvt

[unwnd]

I did catch one thing in my eye though

Someone saying My slot/FFery could be scum together

And to that I say -- You're delusional. As it stands right now I am indeed town so let me go back a bit further and wonder where this mess started

[unwnd]

FFery I went back and saw you did a huge dive on my slot but also Lukewarm. I also noted that Lukewarm had a decently receptive response to it as well. I assume your thought process right now is that you have two scum who are working from different positions. Bell being the slanker who hates being scum and Lukewarm who allows Bell to get away with it. Right now I don't think that's reality, and while I don't have an exact name to address I do again believe you're town here and that this isn't a team of masterminds either

[unwnd]

FFery can you tell me what makes you so confident on Ivyeo town? Purely from an active standpoint she fits into my head visual of 'inbetween the current shitfight and just letting it happen'

Because I'd be lying if that feeling did not influence me to try and salvage this

[unwnd]

Ivyeo I ISO'd your slot and noted that you believed it was Demainer>Egix in terms of your evil team, yet somehow the conversation has been more about me and FFery. Some other notable feelings I saw is this strange inference of 'not wanting to get it wrong' earlier in the game with a lot of loose dialogue, and then coming in with strong convictions towards your team. Where exactly did this change and more importantly, why are you not fighting over it?

[unwnd]

I don't have a godtier town read on Ivy.

I'm not going to try to dig into this again until maybe tonight. But, here's my bedrock assumptions

I really can't conceive of Bell not being scum.

I would be hammered by now if he were replace-out town and left a vote on me.

I'd be yelling about your not unvoting me, except if Luke and Ivy were both scum this game would be over already.

Egix is cop-cleared town. There's no third option here.

So

Egix (cop clear)
Wheme
Myself
Ffery
Ivyeo
Lukewarm

Right? Schadd doesn't post alive people and I am habitually lazy

[unwnd]

Actually Egix being the cop clear puzzles me a bit further in regards to what I asked Ivyeo

[unwnd]

Wheme was elimmed on day 1.

Egix
You/Bell
me/Endless
Ivyeo
Lukewarm

The easy route for me then is to just say and Ivyeo/Lukewarm team has been letting us joust this whole time then

[unwnd]

It would actually explain why Lukewarm is the only person really entertaining your push, but also trying to make it seem You/Bell are scum together. Frankly that just isn't very sensible, and I know from observing your scumplay (and just general degree of competence) that getting into an overbloated fight with your partner who you especially are cognizant of behavior and pointed them out to some degree

Is not a winning move

[unwnd]

Why wouldn't they just hammer me?

That makes no sense.

You have no choice but to put me in your scumpile whether you're town or not.

You were at E-1? You might give me war flashbacks to myself where I assumed the lack of hammer with Lunar/Peta meant Lunar had to be town. That was your game too lol

[unwnd]

Well first of all

UNVOTE:

And second of all, it's a newbie game. I had to ask myself the same exact thing here. From what I gather as well Egix is the only SE slot here, so it could potentially be two newbies who are being overly cautious or even just not here to coordinate two votes. How long has he kept his vote there?

[unwnd]

Alright since last night and both Ivyeo/Lukewarm have pitched in

I don't like that I could be possibly wrong about you here

[unwnd]

Yeah I do see that, but I also see this and wonder if the rabbit hole isn't that deep

I'm really sorry, have been busy IRL, reading from start of day now.

Meaning Lukewarm has potentially been coaxing the situation and Ivyeo's own lack of know-how has been getting in the way of just voting together?

[unwnd]

I really think you're town here too ffery and if you're not it won't be me to say it

[unwnd]

I'm aware that looking at ISOs is only one chunk of provided context, but I very much believe in just getting out whatever is on your mind

[unwnd]

You display a certain degree of understanding that makes me believe in some crazy scenario that admitinggly I have entertained

That you would be ringleader if Ivyeo is your partner. I assume the door is shut in terms of Me/Ffery ever both being town regardless?

[unwnd]

I find it very odd that I'm somewhat fighting against both of you right now on my position. I feel like you as scum would be more than content if I were being a dipshit and floating a townread on you, but maybe my thought is just too out there for you to potentially entertain as scum

[unwnd]

Occam's razor implies I am a dipshit here. Is that what you want though? The problem from my perspective when I was looking at this game from the outside is that you were going rounds with Bell with none of the input elsewhere. Lukewarm's disposition about this being SvS is the most insane thing possible, I still maintain that. You+Bell being scum is not what is happening here. That was one of my first goals to achieve

[unwnd]

Do you think it's personally in my best interest as scum to come in here and spit rhetoric at you

[unwnd]

Alright but that's not what is happening

[unwnd]

Let me try to give a framework of where I'm at right now with everything presented to me:

FFery, I townread your slot when I wasn't here and I came in here in hopes of stopping a TvT. I get what you've said and I get how Ivyeo/Lukewarm could've hammered me. That's fine and a reasonable explanation. If I'm wrong about you then I take zero credit of suddenly needing to change my mind due to the odds I'm in. I think if you're scum here your position has already been set and that's the only thing that could potentially be happening. You're one person however and you have a partner.

That leaves Ivyeo and Luke to worry about. You're absolutely right but it would be such a strange fucking affair for you arguing that (Me/Luke) are scum and then your hypothetical partner Luke arguing that (Me/You) are scum. I mean sure that's a form of distancing but the permeating silence elsewhere is what made me uneasy, and what made me even consider something that you+Lukewarm apparently have no interest in entertaining. I would like a more definitive stance from Lukewarm at the least as to why he thinks Ivyeo is town, and I've noted that you still townread her but it's not golden or anything.

[unwnd]

I will say, One thing making it feel less like distancing is that it almost feels *too* obvious, though given the hand you were dealt I suppose you may not have a choice

Could you explain this thought further? I am town here and I have reasons to think you're just letting either (Ffery/Luke) fight your battles for you

[unwnd]

I was saying that you might also be partnered with Luke and trying to make it *look* like you're distancing with FF, essientally anti-distancing you two

I don't feel like you've made enough of a stance on what's going on either way, despite your comments leaning it being me lol

[unwnd]

That's because I'm still not sure what hte right play is. Whilst I'm pretty sure you're 1 of the scum, I can absolutely see where Luke is going with not wanting to have me have to make a call in F3. If we're executing Unwnd today then I shouldn't share my reads bc that gives mafia more info, and if we arent then obviously I should because we're making the call today, and I'm just not sure what direction town is heading. I'd love to hear from Egix on this.

I'm not sure either, especially in light of a few things that has brung up. Regardless of my own misunderstandings, do you feel any different about me in comparison to Bell?

[unwnd]

You'd be at the same place I am then egix. It might sound selfish but I'd really love to peer into your mind here even if you're cop cleared

[unwnd]

I'm willing to try and explain myself further if anything I've said so far is still a bit confusing

[unwnd]

Happy to hear it!

[unwnd]

Ffery I'm still waiting on your assessment on me. Bell is Bell but we're not the same people. Why haven't you considered he was potentially just having an off game?

[unwnd]

Ffery I'm still waiting on your assessment on me. Bell is Bell but we're not the same people. Why haven't you considered he was potentially just having an off game?

I have considered that. I just have a lot of trouble with him misreading me like he did here. We've played together in most of my games since I came off hiatus.

What was your method/process for getting into this game?

When I replace in I try and offer up some perspectives I felt were missing, and I would even say I have a tendency to join games I think will be more difficult. As for why that is? I don't go in saying 'my presence will dramatically shift the outcome of this game' rather I go 'I'm reading along and I think everyone is missing something that I wish I could say' then I replace in.

[unwnd]

Spoiler:

d1 final vote count

WhemeStar (5):

Demainer

,

Ahri

, endlessdark, Ivyeo, Lukewarm

Ahri (3):

Saudade,

WhemeStar

,

Egix96

not voting (1):

Clasko

with 9 alive, it took 5 to eliminate a player.

unwnd, what are your thoughts on this elim-vc?

Scum are voting together on false pretenses. I'll never be able to ask endlessdark what happened here but you made me wanna go look at Lukewarm's progression towards your slot (and if he has been just on you this whole time)

[unwnd]

Ffery I'm still waiting on your assessment on me. Bell is Bell but we're not the same people. Why haven't you considered he was potentially just having an off game?

I have considered that. I just have a lot of trouble with him misreading me like he did here. We've played together in most of my games since I came off hiatus.

What was your method/process for getting into this game?

When I replace in I try and offer up some perspectives I felt were missing, and I would even say I have a tendency to join games I think will be more difficult. As for why that is? I don't go in saying 'my presence will dramatically shift the outcome of this game' rather I go 'I'm reading along and I think everyone is missing something that I wish I could say' then I replace in.

you were reading along?

Only around the point where Bell replaces out, which made me go back a bit further. I skimmed your case against Bell but his snap reaction to me felt like a greater offense than anything else. Then you two just went back and forth

[unwnd]

Ffery if you can just believe me whether you think it or not I think you struck gold with Lukewarm's discrepancy towards Ivyeo

[unwnd]

I'm not sure what you mean by snap reaction.

I think Bell much like anyone else has an ego. Nobody likes to be misread as town, especially in a situation where you know someone. In his mind I think he was convinced you must be scum because you were unable to see that he was town. That behavior isn't even revolutionary, and something I've seen Bell do a ton of times as town.

[unwnd]

Haha no I wasn't, I saw Bell replaced out and felt convinced of trying to clear up misunderstanding

[unwnd]

Agh everytime I go 'wait hold on Ivyeo/Lukewarm can be scum together' I just remember what you told me about hammering

[unwnd]

Whilst I agree that's an issue (though it's being caused by real life being a bitch right now), I have been doing some rereading I just haven't really shared anything unless I've been seeing reads I'm confident in, and this game hasn't had much content that I've really been able to "dig into" and pull stuff out of that's led me anywhere but still unsure in the early days. I think this has somewhat been affirmed by the fact that both of my votes have been wrong so far btw.
In response to ""I have some reads but I'm not sure if they hold any water?" finishing with a question. " - It's more of a trailing tone than a question.

GTH I want your stance on me much like I asked ffery for the same thing

[unwnd]

Agh everytime I go 'wait hold on Ivyeo/Lukewarm can be scum together' I just remember what you told me about hammering

You want to convince me I'm wrong about Bell and hence you.

Is Luke/Ivy your solve?

That is my optimistic solve, but I am prepared to think it's not realistic. I wish I had more agency here regardless

[unwnd]

I took a deep sigh and I think I might just wait for Egix too, because I actually had an adversely negative reaction to that post

[unwnd]

Have been busy today but egix I'm pretty sure i unvoted once i realized the situation fully

[unwnd]

Yeah I'm all settled in for the day with my own distracting thoughts

[unwnd]

and also made everyone (myself included) unsure of their town reads on Ivy.

Can you tell me what this exactly means? Are you still thinking it's me/FFery?

[unwnd]

If it seems like I'm focused on myself that's because I am. I don't want to be mislimmed and nothing to me suggests that I'm out of the clear.

[unwnd]

Give yourself agency if that's what's holding you back. The way you're playing right now scares me. You want me to reevaluate Bell, but I need YOU to process the game now. Bell's gone and none of the questions I want to ask him can be asked now.

I feel I've talked about my own disposition and I don't feel privy to repeat it. My personal feeling is seeing the game in two ways

1) You/Luke are sweating in a mafia PT together while trying to maintain the proposed image throughout this whole day, while a despondent town Ivyeo feels like she has no voice
2) One of you/Luke is shielding Ivyeo

I am proposing the 2nd option right now and have been since I repped in. However, I don't want to be fooled. I don't want to be the person who says 'let's rethink this' then have Ivyeo just end up town. The question I have to ask you is this: in a situation where scum is one lim away from victory, do you think now would be the time to bet it all? Do you still scumread Lukewarm? I've seen you two slowly backing off from another

[unwnd]

I'm not sure what else you want me to say in that regard. I'm townreading your effort more than Lukewarm. I think Lukewarm is proceeding to be overwhelmed but at the cost of not being able to put up the act much longer. Maybe you've got more stamina as scum but I think at some point your lim is becoming impossible. Even Egix doesn't really wanna lim you anymore. If you've achieved that as scum then good job. I already told you by the time I replaced in that I wouldn't be the one to catch you.

That also being said, the amount of back+forth between you and Lukewarm to me is pretty inconceivable. Selling it one time between the two of you? OK, maybe. Twice? Overkill. I think what captivates me the most is that you two are speaking to each other in a different way. Lukewarm says you're scum because he's mapped this game out in his head and he builds an audience around his words. You say he's scum because of all of the logical steps you've taken such as rereading the game thoroughly. In some crazy ass situation where you two were scum together the game is lost. That's genuinely how I take it, so I'd rather just hedge my bets between you and that probably ends on Lukewarm.

[unwnd]

That being said, we can go the other way. We could all just agree to vote Ivyeo, and that is a scenario both of you seem more willing to think about. That comes down to what Ivyeo has to say however, because some part of me does feel bad for her. Looking back on her own posts I was scumreading her lack of attribution over the course of time, and especially the instance where it suddenly seemed like something clicked for her. However, that is just one instance amongst a bunch of posts that are mostly cautious and unsure. Is it just that her own confidence was taken from her once she was wrong? Or is it because she's afraid of making the wrong move for her partner?

[unwnd]

That legitimately makes me feel better yes

[unwnd]

Though I would feel even better if you gave a proper response to my last two posts as well

[unwnd]

Yeah I'm definitely aware of that, and willing to give her time. I don't know what the deadline is however so hopefully it's sooner rather than later

[unwnd]

3 days, 1 hour, 51 minutes

Not terrible

[unwnd]

I take offense to that and don't feel that way about myself at all

Maybe you just have some expectation of me I don't know about

[unwnd]

It's odd that it fell to me to crawl through the timestamps. I feel like that should have been a key thought in your own mind -- does it make sense that I wasn't hammered before you even arrived on the scene?

When it comes to a clutch situation, I put on a brave face and start listening to my gut. There's a ton of innerworkings going on but you simply have to believe they're there. I don't want to tell you about the past 3-4 hours of this game I was thinking about while driving, right down to what exactly what I was going to say. That isn't productive nor is it bringing me closer to being understood. When it came to your hammer-- I didn't think about it. I only noticed it because you said something, but before then I was already going 'yes ffery town' and felt compelled to start there.

[unwnd]

TENET took a lot out of me, like I probably left about 5% of myself with that game. And my god that was only D1. There was also booneytunez where I had Cakez/MathBlade called as scum and I fought 5000+ posts and then eventually just tilt replaced out because I couldn't suffer another 5000. My next game after that was FL v Flavor Leaf where the care less attitude became more adopted, and I wanted to reinstate myself. The sparks you saw in TENET/Xeno are absolutely still there, but it would take a lot for me to get there. In some regard, I don't want to because it's just such an obsessive place to be. If I can reap the same results with maybe less transparent effort then I'll do it. It will save me some trouble and I'll feel less responsible for the outcome as well.

[unwnd]

FL v Hectic*

Just in case you wanted to go view it

I also have a scumgame that I won by winning a CC battle, you can view that too; Mini Normal 2187

I think the difference in style/way I talk about my reads should be telling enough

[unwnd]

I think it is genuinely impossible to play 1:1. People just go through a wide range of emotions including myself. There is a unnecessary need for meta these days, so much that I find people will avoid games with unfamiliars. Not saying you are like this but I digress. There is probably tilted-and-doesnt-want-to-post-unwnd along with shitposting-unwnd etc.

As for this unwnd? going-with-gut-hoping-good-intentions-win-out

[unwnd]

Bell's vote on ffery proves that one of the two must be scum. It does not necessarily prove which is scum, but it proves that one of them are. The fact that both unwnd and ffery are putting it out there that they are considering scum teams that do no include the other one is completely baffling to me.

What do you think about the timestamps ffery pointed out? Even if that argument involves you

[unwnd]

I'm going to be honest that just sounds like scum who has run out of options

[unwnd]

I think to him it was a hero vote, and maybe it was

But your reactions to everything, your general discourse and presence. Does not seem like scum to me. We can both be fools in the end if you want

[unwnd]

VOTE: Fferyllt

[unwnd]

Sorry ffery you had the right idea on Bell, and even despite my efforts to convince you otherwise, you still stuck to your guns.

[unwnd]

Did my presence change your mind even a little bit ffery? Or was what Bell did just oh too much to look away? I was starting to get nervous you and Lukewarm would sync up and vote me out, so I had to play both sides while pretending I was worried about Ivyeo (if things went wrong).

[unwnd]

I thought you were a very logical and well-spoken person regardless of your misread Lukewarm, I've definitely made mistakes like this.

[unwnd]

Yeah that was just playing up to your side but leaving the option open I was trying to

save

you in case I died

[unwnd]

Ivy did a great job just keeping her nose out of business. I commend her restraint even if she was busy in some areas, but there was really no reason for Ivyeo to try and flip the script to say if was in her favor

[unwnd]

I think your tunnel was righteous for all the wrong reasons. Even if I'm the one who technically secured victory, I genuinely think you played well in terms of being comprehensible. You made some posts that I just looked at thought 'fuck me, there's no way I can break that down' so I would just turn it around and ask a loaded question.

Ffery is right though, but I still have empathy for you. It's so frustrating when you think you have the right idea and it's just yourself telling you so. FFery was the only person who was really entertaining your tunnel and it's easy to think 'oh well, they're just responding because I have them cornered'.