Mini 2204: Fakeclaim Mafia GAME OVER

[Something_Smart]

/confirm IC

[Something_Smart]

Oh wait this isn't my PM's.

[Something_Smart]

SirCakez (1): Something_Smart,

ah yes I see that my predecessor was a man of taste

[Something_Smart]

R u scum?

Undoubtedly, but I'm not mafia.

[Something_Smart]

Well, why is my slot being suspected? Just activity?

[Something_Smart]

I mean I haven't read anything yet, I don't really know what you were expecting

[Something_Smart]

whoo korina is town. that took me long enough:

also, get out of here, past self. it's my swamp now.

[Something_Smart]

I don't feel they are equivalent. it would be like comparing my shit posting to not_mafia.
how can u compare a master shit poster to novice such as myself.

[Something_Smart]

Is this what you got from a full read?

well it's what I got from one specific post, but yes it's the only noteworthy thing I found.

[Something_Smart]

did you read the game yet?

yes

I can’t believe S_S sniped the slot I wanted by literally a minute according to Jingle

sorry ngl I had half a mind to ask him who it was to see if we could take the slot in a hydra, which would have been hilarious when I found out it was you

[Something_Smart]

Talk to me more abt tnk? Even despite the claim and everything i'm not convinced they're town

it's from 497

this is the kind of post you make without really engaging your brain, and I'm not sure that scum would think about it enough to do fake town outrage but not enough to realize the claim is obviously a joke.

[Something_Smart]

This is actually scummy af

If it were scummy, it would be towny, but I don't see why it's scummy?

[Something_Smart]

SS please do something to change my mind

I'll try. I'm always slow to get into a game after joining it.

[Something_Smart]

Eh i mean, maybe. Those are the people i'd vote today.

I think that's a lil concerning that you just want to kill the lowest content slots, do you not feel like that's something that has to be fixed?

[Something_Smart]

SS do you have any thought on NM?

Not really? He's basically unreadable.

If you have any Fire posts you think are telling I can look at those, though.

[Something_Smart]

Why is it concerning?

I mean it seems like in general people have a greater tendency to scumread inactive players, no? So if you have three inactives as your solve, I would say it has a greater than normal chance of being wrong.

[Something_Smart]

i kinda feel like ss is more ~into~ this game upon repping in than he would be as scum if that makes sense

Interesting take, especially considering I don't feel very ~into~ the game.

[Something_Smart]

Why are we killing TNK?

Town and quiet, probably

[Something_Smart]

Shading people and their only content is defending themselves for not doing anything

That's uh towny isn't it?

[Something_Smart]

Why do u think that's townie

Well I mean clearly they want to avoid pressure, but I feel like they would know that as scum they have to do towny stuff to get townread?

Whereas it's towny to assume that a subpar effort will be sufficient because you're being genuine so you assume that people will see that

It sure doesn't feel scummy for me, at least. Arguably it's null.

[Something_Smart]

Idk kinda feels like scum who want to get people off their back and so are being like: look this isnt scummy for me!!!1!

I mean how does that come out differently from town who want to get people off their back?

[Something_Smart]

town also usually has some motivation to attempt to solve the game

I think that probably cancels out because scum have the same motivation to appear to be solving, no?

[Something_Smart]

Everything S_S has done tonight is strongly +scum for him

Gonna take a page out of TNK's book and say no, it isn't

[Something_Smart]

No, they have the motivation to not die, and if theh think going 'guys look ur reasons for voting me are bad' will get votes off of them, i think they might just do that without tryint to go through the motions of solving too

I mean, that's true. Does your experience with Korina lead you to think that they would think that?

[Something_Smart]

How am I being pedantic?

[Something_Smart]

!!!

He does it again!!

asking you to explain a claim that you made with no evidence is not pedantry

[Something_Smart]

Also do u have other reads yet

Yah Menalque is town

I don't think he picks this hill to die on as scum

[Something_Smart]

If TNK!scum, S_S!scum?

surprised that this doesn't say "If TNK!town, S_S!scum?" because I love to defend townies like this as scum and I almost never do it to partners.

I feel like that's pretty compelling evidence that you don't know me as well as you think you do

[Something_Smart]

I’m like broadly townread ish and you’re v much not, I could shitpush you all the way to launch valley and not get a lot of blowback for it

But why would you

[Something_Smart]

Like if I’m wrong I’m wrong and it sadly ruins a decent streak of reads on you but based on what you’ve posted so far I have no idea how you think anyone should TR you

Well I don't know, some of the people here know me better than I know myself. I don't necessarily think that I should be townread, or even that I shouldn't be scumread, but scumreading me for being pedantic is absurd.

[Something_Smart]

Also I'm in the process of collecting a bunch of posts from my TM game that should hopefully be pedantic enough for your liking? But I can keep looking back at other town games if you think it's not sufficient.

[Something_Smart]

Well here I'll post what I have then. If it's actually helpful I can look for more, otherwise I won't bother.

Spoiler: these are from a just-finished towngame

If we used that logic, I'd be rolling town in every single game. Someone calls me locktown in every game.

Well, maybe the logic doesn't apply in this case, which is useful information. But we're not debating the validity of it; we're debating whether it's reasonable for town to believe it.

S_S is making a lot of nothingburger posts like these

Is this related to your read on me?

How are you defining "town post"?

I mean it feels like you're ignoring the "genuine" part of what I said?

I'm not; I said that I don't think it's especially genuine-looking, but that doesn't mean it isn't genuine. It is reasonable enough that I have no reason to believe that it isn't genuine, which means I'm not concerned about it.

i think you're coasting by and not producing much notable content or scumhunting

What do you consider to be notable content?

If S_S's Jake discussion is the "content" he's been referring to then I'm not super impressed. Certainly not enough to drop my SR.

I mean, all of the things I've said today. It's more than just that. But like, the content being impressive wasn't part of the read... content is content.

(Also, you still haven't said why my content being low is even connected to my alignment.)

Real scumhunting, reads, useful questioning (not the fluffy stuff you've been outputting), etc.

You have replaced unclear terminology with more unclear terminology. I have scumhunted; it's real because I am town. I assume you mean that it doesn't look real, which is just a fancy way of saying you scumread me and not really an explanation of anything.

I have given reads. If it's not enough, well, sorry. It's not like making up reads is especially hard as scum; if anything, forming real ones as town is harder.

I have asked questions that are useful to me. They generally pertain to asking people to explain things that aren't clear to me, which seems about as useful as you can get. Can you elaborate on the difference between a fluffy question and a useful one?

If you'd like to revise your claim from "S_S is 5 times more pedantic as scum than as town" to something more gut-based, by all means go ahead, because the claim is ridiculous as it currently stands.

[Something_Smart]

Taking claims as literal from me is weird tho given that I use hyperbole in literally 10000% of my games

Yeah, that's true. I actually am really bad at accounting for this, now that I think about it. (Even though you literally just fooled me with it the last time we played together.)

[Something_Smart]

But still it would be nice to know how you actually feel about me...

[Something_Smart]

You fooled me as town in iv's game, I killed you because I thought you would keep defending Lucy.

[Something_Smart]

Like I think it feels more like you’re asking questions and picking at people bc you know that’s what town!yiu does whereas the things you choose to focus on when town feel more natural to me and I can get why you take issue with them

Okay

I feel like I've probably had almost this exact conversation before (the one with skitter, not the one with you). I can try to find it, though I'm not sure if I'd be able to.

[Something_Smart]

The one about TNK doing nothing but defending not being scummy.

[Something_Smart]

U had it with me?

Yeah like 1171 1185 1195

[Something_Smart]

Dw bout finding it, that’s probably not going to be super useful to me in reading you (I’m trying to avoid second hand meta as much as possible)

I get that, though my first instinct when someone uses meta that seems obviously wrong is to go look for a counterexample, since if the meta claim is simple enough it will be easy to disprove even secondhand.

But I can understand the actual reasoning being more complex than what you're able to explain.

[Something_Smart]

R u saying you had the convo you just had with me elsewhere also? Or something else

No I'm saying I had it with someone else. I may not be right about this, but it definitely feels like the type of logic that I would try to apply and then get challenged on, and it felt vaguely familiar.

[Something_Smart]

So, if FYPOV, I'm town and quiet, why are we killing me, when the entire point of mafia is to kill scum?

Because scum like to wagon people who are town and quiet and townies who conflate effort with alignment will go along with it?

[Something_Smart]

I said Menalque was town in 1209. I agree with him that he'd be able to walk all over the gamestate as scum here, which is why I don't think he'd push someone who might change that if he didn't have any special reason to.

Maybe I'm giving myself too much credit here, but I think if I launched an effective enough pushback at Menalque, people would listen, especially if I was backed by skitter which I probably would be.

[Something_Smart]

Are you reading lol

[Something_Smart]

I've been TNK's strongest (only?) defender pretty much since I replaced in.

Even ignoring that, why would it ever be a good idea to speculate about the reasons for the missing NK...

[Something_Smart]

I mean, the obvious reason is because if there's a doctor then scum know who the target is, and then if we ask the doctor "hey who do you think got targeted" they have to either be honest or come up with a lie and that might tip off scum and it has no upside.

And just it has no upside in general. What do we gain from discussing that, without having any clue about what the possible kill-stopping capabilities in the game are (or even if the scum have a factional kill)?

[Something_Smart]

We could gain in terms of NKA if we can identify the target of nk

Sure, but we can't.

We can speculate about the NK, but you can't make a guess and then use that guess as evidence.

[Something_Smart]

Who do you think could have been the nk then?

Anyone?

[Something_Smart]

skitter is good at reading me

[Something_Smart]

especially if you pushed me for stupid nonexistent reasons, I think she is on enough of the same wavelength as you when it comes to reading me to recognize that they are stupid nonexistent reasons.

[Something_Smart]

skitter is very good at calling me town :3

[Something_Smart]

in all seriousness, maybe she's not good at reading me when I'm scum but strictly speaking I don't care about that as long as I assume that it doesn't impact the way she reads me here.

which is maybe not a good assumption, but one I was making when I posted that, at the very least.

[Something_Smart]

Idk, it seemed weird to me in the first place bc I figured that from your pov either skitt and I are scum together or i have her pocketed

well she can still defend me if you have her pocketed. I didn't necessarily mean that she would have my back in trying to kill you, just in helping me not die.

[Something_Smart]

SS is just sooooo obviously scum

Where have I heard this before...

[Something_Smart]

Also hi Kerset

[Something_Smart]

what a crappy post

What even is bad about it

Like I see people who are quiet get wagoned game after game and most people don't really adjust their play to try and prevent this kind of thing they just let it happen

[Something_Smart]

1020 1137 1160 1171 1185

[Something_Smart]

say what you want about the accuracy of those posts but they are definitely not generic.

[Something_Smart]

yeah but it wasn't just out of nowhere...

what was generic about it?

[Something_Smart]

i really, really, really hate it when people post with some sort of gimmick that makes them harder to understand

+1

[Something_Smart]

cuz if I was scum I would've pocketed you already

and absence is more or less how I play every hydra game

How are these not in contradiction

[Jingle]

—

Skip to Next Vote Count

—

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one describes what my plan for mena is

the other describes how I play hydra games

Can you pocket Menalque while being absent?

Based on his response to your absence, it doesn't seem like you'd be able to.

[Something_Smart]

S_S idk if I’ve told you this before but I appreciate very strongly that you don’t use the word “whilst” which I hate

I don't think you have, lol. I don't have anything serious against the word but I also don't really see a reason to use it when "while" means the same thing and is clearer.

[Something_Smart]

Can someone else give me a second opinion on whether these two posts are directly contradictory bc they feel that way to me

I think there is a way that they could not be contradictory if one of them was poorly explained; I don't really want to tell them the out. You should explain what the issue is and see how they respond

[Something_Smart]

It'd probably be hard to pocket someone while being invisible.

Yes that's the point. So if you always lurk when in a hydra, then it's false that you would be trying to pocket Menalque as scum, right?

[Something_Smart]

I feel like last minute switches used to work but I haven't really seen them work much anymore. I wonder what changed? Maybe it's just low sample size.

[Something_Smart]

I can do it if Klick doesn't want to.

[Something_Smart]

Also who is this Korina person? I thought Korina wasn't in this game

[Something_Smart]

From what Jingle told me, you just have to claim it in bold. There is no limit to who can claim it either. Just anyone who claims masons with me and fark today gets put into a hood tonight

Did you want Klick to do it specifically, or just anyone?

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Absolutely Chillin

[Something_Smart]

How dare! I am here! That is what changed and the entire reason of deadline delay!

No I mean like... on the site in general, not in this game. I remember successful last-minute wagons from years ago, but all my recent ones tend to be giant messes.

[Something_Smart]

I'll try it I guess

I am masons with Farkran and Totally Not Korina

If I just culted myself... honestly, I'd be down.

[Something_Smart]

this is a game with midgame alignment changes

which implies the scum can recruit (the only alternative being town could recruit, which makes 0 sense)

yep those are the only two possibilities
not a third-party that can recruit
not a third-party that can become town or scum
not a town role that can become third-party (or scum, I suppose)
not a complete red herring (not something I'd put past Jingle, though it is pretty unlikely)

[Something_Smart]

have you considered maybe he's recruiting?

also I literally did lol

If I just culted myself... honestly, I'd be down.

like if there

is

a cult I'd much rather be in it than out of it.

[Something_Smart]

who is throwing?

[Something_Smart]

the dude who is saying he wants to join the cult if it exists

that isn't throwing? that is literally playing to win

[Something_Smart]

Cultist that recruits publicly isn't stupid at all, that sounds like a perfectly balanced role

[Something_Smart]

I'll be around eventually.

Did you explain to Klick why they didn't get added to the hood?

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: skitter
v interested in what this does

It kills the game, apparently.

[Something_Smart]

The reality of A50 being in a game called Fakeclaim Mafia just hit me.

Uh, N_M claimed some kind of fakeclaim checker role; he correctly identified that AC had a fakeclaim. TNK claimed some kind of day-JOAT with powers based on fake claims; D1 they used a "dayvig" (really a doctor heal), and D2 they used a "masonize" (really a neighborize) to form a temporary hood with me and Fark for N2. They have a hatedize or something for today iirc?

[Something_Smart]

Should mention that TNK's heal was on Fark N1, and there was no kill.

[Something_Smart]

Wasn't meant to be shade, mb

[Something_Smart]

I think that the reason the game was dead is that the wagons were utterly static

[Something_Smart]

Yeah uh this wagon seems absolutely insane to me

Not that wagoning skitter is necessarily bad but the fact that basically everyone seems to agree and nobody seems at all interested in any alternative wagons

And someone on the wagon should probably unvote before NM hammers

[Something_Smart]

Thank you.

Shouldn't she claim also?

[Something_Smart]

well like I said it's not the fact that skitter's being wagoned that I don't like

it's the fact that the wagon was so fast and is completely uncontested

[Something_Smart]

well like I said it's not the fact that skitter's being wagoned that I don't like

it's the fact that the wagon was so fast and is completely uncontested

[Something_Smart]

thank you site

[Something_Smart]

What's your mod-provided fakeclaim?

[Something_Smart]

Wait, was Fark really JK? I don't see his role in the list.

[Something_Smart]

PEdit looool we saw the same thing didn't we skitter

And so you both targeted me, and I got a fakeclaim and then got it converted into a real ability in the same night.

[Something_Smart]

Traitor that doesn't know the main team is pretty rude... Jingle, is there a particular reason you chose not to have them know?

[Something_Smart]

In addition to the incredible amount of power should they actually coordinate into the scum pt and thus the need to make that less likely to happen/the traitor more likely to target town, I felt that giving them arguably the most interesting role and the most difficult role to play balanced out from a fun perspective to some degree. I agree that generally speaking this type of traitor blows chunks (Doubleblind), but I saw it as a necessary evil for game balance.

Kind of like how I despise cops, but will use them if I believe it increases the value of the overall setup.

Yeah that makes sense, I also realized after I asked this that they kinda would just be using their power on their buddies if they knew who their buddies were.

[Something_Smart]

I wish people had been a bit more open with their information.

> runs a game called "fakeclaim mafia"
> complains that people didn't tell the truth more