Newbie 2061 | Views of Tallinn | Town wins
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I am still working my way through Day 1, so I would say maybe hold off a bit.In post 549, marcistar wrote:
How many votes am I at..? I'll claim if I need to, but i'm not sure if I need to now.. or if i should wait a bit longer..?In post 543, Pearofclubs wrote:What're your reads as of right now? It'll be good to have the information around, should you end up flipping green today- and even if you don't get elimmed, it'll be good to have your thoughts on the books before the days end.
I think that t3 and vfp are scum.
Speaking of, I don't know if my predecessor has a vote out, so UNVOTE: .
I'll touch base once I am through all of Day 1- Lukewarm
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Okay, I have just reached the end of Day 1, and also saw that there was no kill during the night (!!) I plan on making a couple posts, first my general notes that I made just as I read through. Leaving all of them there, even if they chaged throughout my read of the day, just to share my general progression of thoughts.
Then I am going to highlight something that I think was actually a scumslip
Then I will share my over all read list of every player as of, the end of Day 1.
I would like to preface this, that these are all my gut reactions to my first read through, and my opinions are likely to update some as I go back and look at some ISOs
Anyways, my read through notes:
Spoiler: post 0-100
Spoiler: Posts 100-200
Spoiler: Post 200 to end of Day 1- Lukewarm
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I think I may have just caught a scum making a slip during my read through!
I would like everyone to compare PearfoClubs posts 124 and post 419. I think you might find some harsh inconsistencies.
In post 124, Pearofclubs wrote:I actually was explicitly suspicious of someone in my last game because they were super helpful. I thought it was them trying to steer suspicions away from themselves and appear nice and helpful. Turns out it was just a helpful person.
Shame we lost because of that suspicion, but live and learn, right?
In post 419, Pearofclubs wrote:This means that people are, at least to some degree, suspecting him less because he's giving gameplay advice and assistance. My last game a very helpful and nice player that I townread early on turned out to be scum. Perspectives get tainted by appreciating things like that
Hopefully, everyone sees the discrepancy here. So it seems to me, like he was making up a story to try and get people to agree with his push at the time, and did not realize that he had already made up the exact opposite story. This reeks of scum trying to manipulate town.
I would very much like to go ahead and drop a vote here on Pear, but I am going to get fully caught up before I cast any votes. I am going to step a way for a bit to take a break, but I will be caught up before I go to bed tonight!- Lukewarm
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Hmm, I will take this into consideration as I continue to build my final reads, but to be up front with you, I am not a player who is interested in reading through other games. If someone can't convince me in thread, then they are missing the entire purpose of this game imo. So noted, your explanation is that you were referencing two different players from the same game.In post 576, Pearofclubs wrote: To put names to the people you're talking about, I was suspicious of Word because he was publicly helpful to everyone early on- in particular, telling people how to scumhunt. I suspected he was scum for that reason.
Notscience was nice and encouraging to me specifically, and I ended up liking him more than I should have. I missed scumtells that were obvious in retrospect.
The last three players were myself, Word and Notscience.
Here's the thread.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... start=1600- Lukewarm
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I did not think that the goal was ever to lie about a prior game. I felt like the goal was "let me convince people to listen to my push, by giving a personal anecdotal example of why this logic should/should not be applied." And then he did that twice, using contradictory stories. Which feels to me like manipulation. And manipulation is a hard scum tell imo.In post 579, catboi wrote:This is such a cheap attempt at a "gotcha!" case. I really hate it. What reason would pear have to lie about their last game here?
I wanted to explain my reading of it a bit more, but I am still not caught up (but working on it), so I am still holding out judgement until then.- Lukewarm
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Here is my final read list as of the end of Day 1. Then I will work my way through Day 2.
(My strong town read tier is empty)
Meuh- Meuh was one tier up as of like 80% of the way through Day 1, like almost every post from the beginning of the day just screamed town at me, but they did fall slightly at the end of the day because they came across like they were okay with almost every elim option presented
Not Mafia- They were yellow, with a note :"if Norwee flips red/green move Not_mafia one tier in that direction" so now they are hanging out here
Marcistar- I have had mixed reactions to them throughout day 1. They have defenitly been green at various points for me, but they have kind of bounced back and forth between green and yellow..
Samawoodo- I have gotten mostly negative reactions to their posts, but mainly in a "gut feeling" kind of way, but I did not really spot anything I could pin point as to why I felt that way
(These are the two who I think have the highest potential to move once I do ISOs on them. This is mainly a "need to give them a second look tier atm)
Norwegianboy- this is where he was for me at the end of the day. I probably would have been on his wagon tbh
Catboi- Over all not a good vibe from this guy. For the first half of the day, seemed too hesitant to voice their opinion. And when they finally did voice their opinion, they landed on Not_Mafia which seems like the easy way out for a scum imo.
Tori/T3- to be fair to T3, they mainly get this ranking from the Tori post, but T3 did not really give me anything to pull them back up from where Tori left him
Pearofclubs- they were a slight scum lean (same as norwegianboy and catboi) even before I read the posts I pointed out, but once I noticed it, it really screamed to me "he is trying to manipulate me" which says scum to me, so he dropped down here.
(I put pearofclubs at the bottom before he responded, and this is supposed to be "where I stood at the end of day 1 anyways. I am going to mull over his response as I read through Day 2).
Looking at it, I am actually surprised how many names I have as red/orange. I feel like I generally end up going the other way with too many town reads. This leaves me with much to think about moving forward.- Lukewarm
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Don't feel too bad, you still ended up as the top of my town read list apparently. It was more of a "in the first half of the day, you reached a, in my mind this person is 100% town" and that second half of the day just moved you down to "probably town" hahaIn post 578, Meuh wrote:
That wasn't the stance I was taking in that post though? I acknowledge in the post itself IIn post 572, Lukewarm wrote: [*]Post 381, Meuh losing more town points. "I think he is scum, because he is scum reading me" is a really weak stance to take, especially given the fact that she clearly has some mafia experiencedislikemy mentality against Norwee because of potential bias I have due to the appeal of OMGUSing. My gut was screaming that Norwee was scum, but my brain was against it, partially because Norwee was scumreading me in the first place.
Feeling less good about me in the second half of day 1 is reasonable though, I hit a lack of motivation and confidence (partially due to irl stuff, partially because of the less active gamestate, partially just cause it's like that for no real reason sometimes) which leads to a shift in mentality from "Let's get scum elimed!" to "Let's just get this day over with and end up with a decent outcome", if that hadn't happened I think I would've played the whole thing pretty differently
But I still felt like mentioning, because that it was enough for me to make a slight adjustment to my read of you. And I am trying to get like 18 game days worth of thoughts and reactions out there, so people can have as clear of a picture of where I am at, as they have of everyone else in the game.- Lukewarm
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Okay, I am officially caught up, but also desperately in need of some sleep, so I don't think I can work through too long of a post rn, but am more then happy to elaborate more tomorrow. Basically VOTE: pearofclubs
I was already suspicious of him Day 1, even before the anecdotal inconsistency thing, like I had him in my scum reads list at least by post 376. And then, after I had him in my scum pile already, I saw the anecdotal inconsistency thing, and then after that I saw the Norwegianboy flip, both of which don't help my read of him. And then reading through today, I'm still getting a feeling that he is scum. I wish I was not so tired, because I really would like to get into the nitty gritty of his posts for Day 2, but I just need sleep at this point.
Spoiler:- Lukewarm
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Looking at the context is why I did not buy his counter argument that both were true. First here is a break down of the two anecdotes:In post 589, Not_Mafia wrote:
It's not, both of those thing can be trueIn post 586, VFP wrote:
This is a really good post and a good spot.In post 574, Lukewarm wrote:Hopefully, everyone sees the discrepancy here. So it seems to me, like he was making up a story to try and get people to agree with his push at the time, and did not realize that he had already made up the exact opposite story. This reeks of scum trying to manipulate town.
If you read the context to Pear's posts they are even worse. It's the before and after having NorwegianboyEE as scum.
Just adapting the comment to suit their agenda.
Spoiler: Anecdote 1Spoiler: Anecdote 2
Now I am pretty sure that Anecdote 1 is a true anecdote, and Anecdote 2 is a false one that Pear made up to push a particular narrative.
Here is the context for 124. Marci town reads NorwegianBoy for being town, and Pear is trying to make the point "being helpful is NAI" and he tells Anecdote 1. But imo, if BOTH anecdotes are true, then why would he not have used Anecdote 2? That anecdote would prove the point better, but because anecdote 1 kind-of-sort-of works, he did not feel the need to lie. In general, scum tries to avoid lying when possible.
And next the context of post 419. Norwegianboy is under fire, and Pear is trying to make the argument "Norwegianboy is scum, despite him being helpful earlier, and we should hammer him." Suddenly, anecdote 1 doesn't work to push that narrative. If anything, telling the true anecdote 1, would indicate that we should not have voted Norwegian boy, because in that story, the person turned out to be town all along. So Pear, who wants to make the case that we should vote out Norwegianboy, creates the false anecdote 2, adjusting the first one to make it fit within the new narrative he is trying to push. And he just did not remember that he has already shared the original story, like 8 irl days earlier.- Lukewarm
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No one makes up personal anecdotes, to try and win an argument? Like that is a perfectly valid strategy to win an argument.In post 602, catboi wrote:No one does this, even as scum
I know that I have made up stories when scum, and from my own experience, if I am going to make up an anecdote, I tend to start my lie from something that is close to the truth.
Spoiler:- Lukewarm
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Everyone probably knows this, but it is a newbie game, so might as well make sure; you can counter claim this even if you are not the tracker. A tracker and a cop cannot be in the same game, so a cop in addition to a tracker, can counter claim thisIn post 606, marcistar wrote:
AH WAIT DOES IT ACTUALLY- i thought it was just a still time, does it move :0In post 601, catboi wrote:posts will tell you regardless of time zone, the most recent one is just over 22 hours
Anyways I see meuhs debating on voting me, and I got alot of hw to do today so I think i'll just claim because idk if I would be able to come back before that.
I'm tracker, i visited meuh and she wasn't visiting anyone.
Ahhh ty i've been wondering so long.. daylight savings confused me so much in my recent games LOLIn post 605, Not_Mafia wrote:User Control Panel > Board Preferences > Set Timezone- Lukewarm
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I did an iso on Pear for Day 2, and he just is not scum hunting.
Spoiler:
So all I am seeing is a player, who avoided making any content for 3 days, then finally made a stance of "the person whose wagon is currently gaining steam is scum." There is very little attempts being made to analyze other players. Out of 8 players, he has 1 scum read and 1 town read. And that has held all the way to the deadline.
And the vast majority of his posts have been empty posts. And the second most frequent, are defensive posts.
I just am not seeing an effort from him to try and find scum. But then multiple people are coming to his defense. Can people explain their town reads on Pear?- Lukewarm
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Interesting.In post 649, Not_Mafia wrote:I'm the doc, I was on Pear, now vote VFP or catboi
I'm going to give it some time in case someone CCs.
I also need to rethink, which of those two I would prefer. I was already leaning towards Catboi, but that was partly because I saw them as a potential partner for Pear, and now I am not sure. We have all day today, so I'm gonna take a couple hours to think about this.- Lukewarm
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Maybe, but they would have known if we had a jailkeeper or a doctor the moment marci claimed tracker.In post 655, Not_Mafia wrote:
They probably thought they were jailed with all the JK talk at day startIn post 651, Meuh wrote:Would scum push for a Pear elim considering what N_M just revealed?
peedit:marci snipped me- Lukewarm
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I mean MeuhIn post 657, Lukewarm wrote:peedit:marci snipped me- Lukewarm
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True.In post 659, Meuh wrote:
I mean I don't think they'd just hop off the wagon immediately after Marci's claim, that'd look worse than just pushing on PearIn post 657, Lukewarm wrote:
Maybe, but they would have known if we had a jailkeeper or a doctor the moment marci claimed tracker.In post 655, Not_Mafia wrote:
They probably thought they were jailed with all the JK talk at day startIn post 651, Meuh wrote:Would scum push for a Pear elim considering what N_M just revealed?
peedit:marci snipped me
I think I've decided that between vfp and catboi, I'm leaning catboi.
Still gonna give vfp and catboi a chance to cc, which would be interesting to say the least- Lukewarm
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Okay, I think that means everyone has posted since Not_Mafia's claim, except catboi.
I'll go ahead and VOTE: catboi- Lukewarm
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In post 665, Meuh wrote:
Marci and Pear haven'tIn post 664, Lukewarm wrote:Okay, I think that means everyone has posted since Not_Mafia's claim, except catboi.
I'll go ahead and VOTE: catboi
Considering they're both being cleared as town their input would be nice
UNVOTE:
Oh, you right. I was trying to keep up with the people who could still CC not_mafia, so I had already checked off Marci.
Somehow missed that Pear had not chimed in. My bad- Lukewarm
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Yeah, if we are going in to Day 3 with 2 fully cleared town (2 non-cc'ed pr+1pr cleared townies-nk), and hopefully 1 mafia down, then Day 3 is looking pretty good tbh.In post 667, Meuh wrote:
It'd be funny for mafia to fakeclaim a heal on the doctorIn post 666, Lukewarm wrote:In post 665, Meuh wrote:
Marci and Pear haven'tIn post 664, Lukewarm wrote:Okay, I think that means everyone has posted since Not_Mafia's claim, except catboi.
I'll go ahead and VOTE: catboi
Considering they're both being cleared as town their input would be nice
UNVOTE:
Oh, you right. I was trying to keep up with the people who could still CC not_mafia, so I had already checked off Marci.
Somehow missed that Pear had not chimed in. My bad
I doubt N_M is lying here but no reason not to wait
But even without the CC part, it's still nice to know what our angelic townies are thinking- Lukewarm
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Do not like this change in direction tbh. I read catboi's posts as a last ditch effort to switch the vote off of him before the hammer, and then I saw you doing just that.
When I was deciding between vfp and catboi, I stopped and through about how they handled the day if they knew that they had targeted pear, and he had lived. Is it more likely that they decided to open up the day with a hard scum read on Pear, knowing that a PR could hard clear them (VFP), and therefore make themselves suspicious for hard scum reading a confirmable town?. Or does it make more sense to strongly defend Pear, so that once pear is hard cleared, you will get the towncred for defending them (catboi)?
I personally read Catboi's defense of pear as disingenuous, and had assumed that that meant they were partners. But given the knowledge that mafia targeted pear and pear got saved, then a forced defense makes sense in that scenario too.- Lukewarm
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When VFP scum read Catboi, he immediately voiced a defense of him without reason.In post 502, catboi wrote:
I fairly already explained why I thought he might be scum - he was merely declaring reads rather than outright voting them.In post 500, VFP wrote:423 is scummy. Cat boi looks to be testing the waters with this post.
I'm not sure why they don't just vote my slot before the replace in though as I read their ISO as convenient or safe. Maybe town credit here.
@CatboiWhat makes NM scum possibility to you after 27?
On a kneejerk level I heavily disagree with a pearofclubs vote
And when I made my case against Pear, that he might have been making up an anecdote, his only argument was "no one does that."
He was the most vocal and frequent defender of pear, without ever giving any reasoning behind his defense. Post 482, 502, 567, 579, 602, 618, are all defense posts of pear, without ever providing a town read defense. This is what I mean when I say his defense felt disingenuous.- Lukewarm
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Which is funny, because my sneaking suspicion is that it just might be you, and that your start of Day 1 completely bamboozled me.In post 683, Meuh wrote:Like his behaviour in isolation I can see from scum but looking at the broader scope of the game, I can't really picture Catboi as part of the mafia
But I would very much like to be able to spend Night 2 examining everyone's interactions with Catboi- Lukewarm
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He seems so blindly confident in his town read of pear, with nothing backing up that read. That blind confidence feels to me like he already knew Pear's alignment, and had just decided "I'm going to defend pear because of the doc save" today.In post 684, Lukewarm wrote:
When VFP scum read Catboi, he immediately voiced a defense of him without reason.In post 502, catboi wrote:
I fairly already explained why I thought he might be scum - he was merely declaring reads rather than outright voting them.In post 500, VFP wrote:423 is scummy. Cat boi looks to be testing the waters with this post.
I'm not sure why they don't just vote my slot before the replace in though as I read their ISO as convenient or safe. Maybe town credit here.
@CatboiWhat makes NM scum possibility to you after 27?
On a kneejerk level I heavily disagree with a pearofclubs vote
And when I made my case against Pear, that he might have been making up an anecdote, his only argument was "no one does that."
He was the most vocal and frequent defender of pear, without ever giving any reasoning behind his defense. Post 482, 502, 567, 579, 602, 618, are all defense posts of pear, without ever providing a town read defense. This is what I mean when I say his defense felt disingenuous.- Lukewarm
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I am not sure how you are eliminating the possibility of a [t3, catboi] team?In post 688, Meuh wrote:there's no realistic scummates for him, I can't really justify this elim
Without being able to do a full iso of them rn, I could see them being in a team with T3 or possibly in a team with you. (If I remember correctly Marci even floated that idea Day 1) but like I said, I do intend to do a full Iso again over the night.
So from my PoV, he has 2 possible partners, but from your PoV, he should still have 1, right? Unless I am missing something on the Catboi / T3 front- Lukewarm
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I wish I had that kind of confidence right now lol.In post 690, VFP wrote:Regardless I'm pretty sure this is just a win.
Meuh not visiting makes them town here as they would have been visiting for either the kill or the Rolecop.
Pear being protected means town.
2 PR claims not CC.
This means we have 4 town out of 7 going into night 2.
Scum are only possible to be in me, T3, Catboi, and Lukewarm.
I don't think T3 is scum here so the pool narrows down to me, Catboi, and Lukewarm with T3 as the additional.
NM dies tonight, we have 3 town and a clear on someone. Scum flip today means that we have 4 town out of 6 players.
There's really nothing to try and solve here.
Is it not possible that one scum does both the rolecop ability and the kill? If so, how can you clear Meuh?- Lukewarm
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Sorry, can't take read advice from my top scum read, maybe we can touch back on this topic in the post-game /sIn post 693, catboi wrote:
Yes, actually, pushing a doc save target to see who defends them so you can narrow down the doctor, and possibly even force them to out if enough people join you, is incredibly basic play, to write it off as something scum wouldn't do is bad WIFOM which ignores the benefits of doing soIn post 681, Lukewarm wrote:When I was deciding between vfp and catboi, I stopped and through about how they handled the day if they knew that they had targeted pear, and he had lived. Is it more likely that they decided to open up the day with a hard scum read on Pear, knowing that a PR could hard clear them (VFP), and therefore make themselves suspicious for hard scum reading a confirmable town?.- Lukewarm
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Can this rule be verified? Because that would change things.In post 699, VFP wrote:
My understanding is 1 action per player in newbies.In post 692, Lukewarm wrote:Is it not possible that one scum does both the rolecop ability and the kill? If so, how can you clear Meuh?
Unless I'm wrong here, Meuh can't be scum.- Lukewarm
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If me voicing my reads and concerns gets me vote out, it gets me voted out, but I am going to hold out hope my read can pass the vote for as long as possible.In post 716, T3 wrote:Lukewarm, catboi. If you are town then you should not have trouble with voting VFP.
I'm gonna leave my vote on Catboi until ~1 hour before the deadline, but will hammer either the VFP wagon or my own to avoid a no elim if needed.
If I die before then, let me just say for posterity, I'm pretty sure Catboi is scum.- Lukewarm
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Okay. This is my stance, because I don't know that I have been as clear as I could have been.
When I compared catboi and vfp, I am much more suspicious of catboi.
I feel like people some people have read my earlier post as saying "I think Meuh is scum" but that is not what I was trying to say.
My suspicions on Meuh and T3 are completely dependent on catboi flipping scum, because those are the two players I could see partnered with him. I do not have strong scum reads on either of them, but a flip on catboi would move them into the spot light for a hunt for his partner. If we don't flip catboi today, then I don't actually have a strong reason to be suspicious of either until that does actually happen.
My vote today has been for the person I am most suspicious of overall, and that is catboi. But it is starting to look like we are voting out VFP anyways. So looking towards how I can productively spend Night 2 after a VFP flip, I'm curious: if he flips green, who is everyone looking towards for tomorrow, and if he flips red, who you guys think he could be partnered with. (I know people are going to say me, but who else, because looking into VFPxMe interactions is not how I am going to spend my Night 2 if he flips red, I'll leave that to you guys.)- Lukewarm
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Something.... something has happened to the chat while I was typing that message
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IF you say so. I am not sure in what world I would not have bussed him by now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯In post 765, Not_Mafia wrote:Major VFP-Lukewarm partner vibes here- Lukewarm
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How is that math working? NotMafia, Marci, and Pear are full clear, there is an argument to be made that Meuh is clear, but that still leave me, you, catboi, and T3, no? So 50%.In post 766, VFP wrote:
Highly plausible.In post 765, Not_Mafia wrote:Major VFP-Lukewarm partner vibes here
It's a 66% chance of hitting scum on me right now.- Lukewarm
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Why?In post 769, VFP wrote:
T3 isn't flipping scum.In post 768, Lukewarm wrote:How is that math working? NotMafia, Marci, and Pear are full clear, there is an argument to be made that Meuh is clear, but that still leave me, you, catboi, and T3, no? So 50%.
3 scum are in me, you, and Catboi.
You should be seeing me and Catboi as scum here.
I have not seen a reason why he could not be a partner with T3- Lukewarm
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My concern with this post, is that if you do flip town, that would leave the PoE down to me+caboi, which I already know is not trueIn post 769, VFP wrote:
T3 isn't flipping scum.In post 768, Lukewarm wrote:How is that math working? NotMafia, Marci, and Pear are full clear, there is an argument to be made that Meuh is clear, but that still leave me, you, catboi, and T3, no? So 50%.
3 scum are in me, you, and Catboi.
You should be seeing me and Catboi as scum here.- Lukewarm
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Okay, I went through the isos for [T3/Torri], Catboi, and [Sama/VFP] looking for partner / anti-partner posts, and they have not made this easy...
Both the T3/tori slot and catboi have the same general trajectory: They town lean the sama/vfp slot, even defending the slot when other people are suspicious. But once Not_Mafia says for everyone to vote for VFP, and they both vote VFP and make the case that he is a good vote. And then both eventually leave the VFP vote (T3 to push catboi, catboi to push me).
So no matter what, the scum town leaned their partner, bussed them when Not_Mafia said to vote VFP, and then got cold feet at the last min. But that sentence could describe either of them T_T
And looking at the Sama/VFP slot is contradictory as well. Sama has a scum read on Tori/T3 slot and a town read on catboi. VFP has a town read on T3/Tori slot and a scum read on catboi.
VFP insisting that T3 is clear, after it looks like VFP is getting voted out, is a WIFOM inducing moment. Is he trying to get the town to stop considering T3 is scum, or does he think that clearing him will draw him under suspicion after his red flip.
I think I am just praying that Marci can track clear someone today. If she can clear any one of us [me, catboi, or T3] it is an auto win. Scum must be in that group, so if anyone of us is tracker cleared, then town can kill off both of the others and we win.
If I had to choose, I think I would actually choose T3 as the partner. Mainly because he kept self clearing himself at the end of the day, trying to set up an “easy game, gg, we already won this” idea in the thread.- Lukewarm
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You both are still cleared imo.In post 824, Meuh wrote:so ig we aren't cleared? that's weird
VFP was the goon, so his partner would be the Roleblocker. So when you were tracked, you would have moved as the Roleblocker, but you didn't.
And then Pear is clear, because VFP pushed hard on pear right out the gate on Day 2.- Lukewarm
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I know some people were scum reading catboi for saying doc protection, when we did not know if there was a doc or not. Well now that we know for sure we do not have a doc, this is actually a good look for him. Scum would have known I'm definitely leaning towards T3 atmIn post 624, Meuh wrote:In post 620, catboi wrote:
Fir the record as mafia here I probably unvote when I see this and don't press her further so I can hopefully NK her without doc protection.In post 529, marcistar wrote:
Ahh, I didn't think I feel like this, but I guess I do LOL.In post 528, Meuh wrote:So yeah in conclusion, Marci's train of logic on her read on the Catboi/me/Sama slot trio doesn't really make sense, especially her read on me. If Marci is elimed and flips red, N_M looks absolutely terrible, considering the way she handled the day. However, she still has plenty of possibilities for a teammate, as she wasn't heavily discussed yesterday (and therefore doesn't actually have much interactions we can POE scumpairs off of) and has been very non-confrontational. Her only day 1 vote was the one on me.
I think it's worth mentioning that Marci is generally a non-confrontational player, so it's nottooscummy as to how she handled day 1, but I still think town!Marci would be slightly more aggressive than she was.
I really townread you rn, because I thought of stuff during the night Clearer mind
so im not as badass as i am in my mind ??protection what's up with that?Doc- Lukewarm
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Scum would have knownIn post 832, Lukewarm wrote:Scum would have known I'm definitely leaning towards T3 atmthat we had a jailkeeper, not a doc. I'm definitely leaning towards T3 atm- Lukewarm
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I meant more, "if you were scum reading catboi because he knew we had a doc" then that no longer makes sense lolIn post 834, Meuh wrote:
I don't think this really means too much, I could see this coming from both scum!Catboi and town!Catboi, agreed on T3 being significantly scummier though, let's elim himIn post 832, Lukewarm wrote:
I know some people were scum reading catboi for saying doc protection, when we did not know if there was a doc or not. Well now that we know for sure we do not have a doc, this is actually a good look for him. Scum would have known I'm definitely leaning towards T3 atmIn post 624, Meuh wrote:In post 620, catboi wrote:
Fir the record as mafia here I probably unvote when I see this and don't press her further so I can hopefully NK her without doc protection.In post 529, marcistar wrote:
Ahh, I didn't think I feel like this, but I guess I do LOL.In post 528, Meuh wrote:So yeah in conclusion, Marci's train of logic on her read on the Catboi/me/Sama slot trio doesn't really make sense, especially her read on me. If Marci is elimed and flips red, N_M looks absolutely terrible, considering the way she handled the day. However, she still has plenty of possibilities for a teammate, as she wasn't heavily discussed yesterday (and therefore doesn't actually have much interactions we can POE scumpairs off of) and has been very non-confrontational. Her only day 1 vote was the one on me.
I think it's worth mentioning that Marci is generally a non-confrontational player, so it's nottooscummy as to how she handled day 1, but I still think town!Marci would be slightly more aggressive than she was.
I really townread you rn, because I thought of stuff during the night Clearer mind
so im not as badass as i am in my mind ??protection what's up with that?Doc- Lukewarm
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Wait, no one told me I was obviously town
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In post 873, Pearofclubs wrote:Hrm. Just out of curiousity, if he jailed the roleblocker, and the roleblocker blocked him, what happens in that scenario? Obviously that didn't happen.In post 2, lendunistus wrote:- Lukewarm
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Okay, an explination that I can understand as to why people are town reading me. Before the day started, I assumed I was going to be one of the people that was being pushed for the vote, and then it did not happenIn post 875, Pearofclubs wrote:As Catboi pointed out the thing exonerating Luke more or less is that N-M said he scumread him yesterday instead of Catboi.
Given that if N-M misses he's almost certainly dead, it would make the most sense for him to target someone we'd expect him to, so that if he misses we'll have a chance at guessing what he did...
And if N-M jailed Lukewarm, and you were the one he roleblocked, that means Lukewarm didn't kill anyone, he was jailkept.
...I'll check back here tomorrow. If everyone's ready to move on I won't hold us all hostage.
I'll hammer T3 if it ends up being up to me.
Overall, it seems like T3 is the consensus. Me, Catboi, Meuh, and Pear (and T3) all started the day by saying their preferred vote was T3. Marci is the only one who hasn't really voiced a preference.
I think the only other thing we could do before we pass the vote is for Meuh, Pear, and Marci to all voice their opinion on me vs catboi tomorrow, just in case the vote on T3 does not end the game. In that scenario, which ever one of you do die overnight will have left something to help Day 4- Lukewarm
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This is an interesting take...In post 917, catboi wrote:I think it's marcistar, actually, if my very leading question did not make it clear. On day 2, because of Not_Mafia's fakeclaim, I had mentally calibrated to both PR claims being confirmed town. When he flipped jailkeeper, I completely forgot that there's a setup with a jailkeeper and no tracker (I'm not used to this new newbie setup, I've played 1 real game on it). It's very unfortunate but I nly realized it after T3 flipped and I was left wondering to myself who N_M jailed if not Lukewarm. And that was when I realized marcistar wasn't clear at all.
I have not really thought about that possibility. Because I thought we had 2 confirmed town, I did not even consider them. I am not sure that I am sold, I am going to take some time reading through the thread thinking about if I think that is actually a possibility.
I was sure that today was gonna start with you making a case against me, so this day has already started off completely differently then I expected- Lukewarm
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Just running through the setup suggestion
Because VFP was a goon instead of a scum PR, we cannot eliminate this possibility...
Damn... This is actually a reasonable scenario. I was sure that I was walking into Day 4 with Catboi as the only option. And suddenly, I am actually going to have to think today T.T- Lukewarm
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So I decided to go back through Day 1 looking for Marci / Sama interactions, and I noticed a distinct lack of them.
I scrolled through, and I noticed Marci seemed to be quoting basically everyone, but not Sama. So I started counting both Marci and Sama's quoted messages until I found the first time they cross quoted one another.
It does not stand out with Sama as much, but Marci seems to be a prolific quoter, and looked to be avoiding Sama. She had quoted every single other player in the game by post 107 (Iso 20), but then did not quote Sama for the first time until post 183 (iso 37). 20 posts to quote 7 players, and then 17 more before she got the last one in.
I could see this arising from scum trying to distance...............
I was so convinced it was catboi.
I am not saying that I am on board with marci = scum yet. I was just really hoping the accusation would fall apart after a cursory review, and it just hasn't, and I am really going to have to do a deep dive into both possibilities now.- Lukewarm
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girl, we have like 7 days to sort this out. I for one know it is gonna be a while before I am ready to voteIn post 940, marcistar wrote:Considering I'm running out of time and would kinda like to get a bit of hw done today.. is it fine if i reply to the very first thing I quoted tomorrow..?- Lukewarm
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In post 940, marcistar wrote:He was inactive, there wasn't really much to quote I'm pretty sure, and when there was I feel like it felt already resolved..? (this is essentially my argument for the whole post actually, would've just changed up a few wordings.. but I'm running out of time aaaaaah)Spoiler:
To be clear, my post about the number of times you quoted each player is not supposed to be damning evidence against you. Like I am not using that to scum read you at all. It is really coming more from me trying to decide if I should dismiss catboi's accusation or seriously consider the possibility.
The accusation making sense given the setup possibilities + the Sama being your least interacted with person day 1 + the content of your day 1 interactions, all together means I have decided to take it seriously.
So I am going to have to dedicate some serious time looking it over now.
I second catboi's question. If you are town, who do you think the real scum is, and why?- Lukewarm
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Basically, same.In post 949, Meuh wrote:
My mentality coming into this day was that you were 95% scum, so my energy is shifted towards going over the alternate possibilities and their validity, and while ofc confbias is a thing, everything is lined up in a way where Marci could very well be fakeclaiming. I haven't really made my mind up on if I do think it is her, and there's no rush really, I was just making sure the theory stood strong enough to warrant being considered, and it doesIn post 948, catboi wrote:No rush. Take your time.
I must admit while it's nice that my case is being considered the fact that the response from both meuh and lukewarm is essentially "yeah that makes sense" is a little unnerving >_>
I came into today thinking we were going to have two clear players + me + catboi, and that meant it was 100% catboi from my pov. But his case on Marci makes enough sense that I am no longer at 100%. Suddenly I have a new problem to solve
Did town!catboi spend night 3 scouring for an alternative scum because he townread me (see post 869) and spotted this fakeclaim from marci
OR
Did scum!catboi spend night 3 scouring for the best person to shift suspicion to after he thought he would lose the 1v1 with me (see post 878) and he came up with a plan to blame marci? - Lukewarm
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