Mini Normal 2205: RotITGBSMoD [game over!]

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Asteria

I got a check N0 - this is Scum.

Hello all. I intend to try my best and fail to properly solve the game until it’s too late. That’s been the theme for me lately.

@Osuka, good to see you. Let’s try and work together this time, right?

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Asteria

I got a check N0 - this is Scum.

Hello all. I intend to try my best and fail to properly solve the game until it’s too late. That’s been the theme for me lately.

@Osuka, good to see you. Let’s try and work together this time, right?

1) voting town
2) scum lies
3) classic mafia setting themselves up so they can "fail" on purpose
4) pocketing attempt already?

My vote is clearly in the right place

You think you have it right when you failed to read the obvious sarcasm in my post? And you’re escalating instead of asking me if my post was serious?

This is going to be a long game isn’t it?

[Andresvmb]

youre clearly lying

Yes of course I’m clearly lying. It’s a joke.

At least your reaction seems genuine. We can get it. In fact, we can go after that player that wants more votes on you to start if you want.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Save The Dragons

I’m not going to shy away from a fight if that’s what you want.

[Andresvmb]

@andres please explain to these nerds what that means

Are we doing this again? Are you going to write daddy every time you take a pagetop? Hahaha

[Andresvmb]

I can explain what I was trying to do and you guys can tell me what you think.

I didn’t have a strong read of osuka when I first approached the game. But, last time we played, I failed to listen to them (in a way that clearly hurt the Town, since they were correct and I wasn’t), and so I wanted to let them stay in the game, provide input, and see where it lead. Yeah, they’re pretty tricky to read. But I thought I would give it a chance.

I also wasn’t trying to fight SavetheDragons because I definitely thought they were Scum. Though their reaction was horrific. It was more to try and have people react to my play, which was more aggressive than usual.

[Andresvmb]

I don't find Osuka's self vote or Andres fake claim particularly scummy. Scum generally try to blend in on day one rather than stand out. I would rather look at the people attacking Osuka and Andres.

i think one or both of them might literally be scum pretending to stand out to look town

believable yet? COME AT ME BRUH

To be fair, this seems kind of ridiculous for Scum but I’ve definitely seen it haha

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Asteria

I got a check N0 - this is Scum.

Hello all. I intend to try my best and fail to properly solve the game until it’s too late. That’s been the theme for me lately.

@Osuka, good to see you. Let’s try and work together this time, right?

1) voting town
2) scum lies
3) classic mafia setting themselves up so they can "fail" on purpose
4) pocketing attempt already?

My vote is clearly in the right place

You think you have it right when you failed to read the obvious sarcasm in my post? And you’re escalating instead of asking me if my post was serious?

This is going to be a long game isn’t it?

My post was sarcastic too...

I should have known!

[Andresvmb]

I might have lured the Scum out though. That post 67 seems like Scum who can’t decide which Towny is an easier push.

[Andresvmb]

1. You established that doesn't mean I'll feel exactly what you feel? You also said on 63 that Andresvmb is going easy on you. I see that as a pocketing attempt from him.

Osuka is the last player I would try to pocket if they’re Town and I’m Scum. I would approach them much differently - probably very cautiously. I won’t explain all of my reasoning because nobody cares. But yeah - trying to figure out if solid players are Town and going from there is not what you’re describing. But suit yourself.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Save The Dragons

I’m not going to shy away from a fight if that’s what you want.

so what's this all about?

that's probably just andres' brain short circuiting. it does that every once in a while

As much as I want to be offended by this, I can’t disagree.

[Andresvmb]

Andres, you said that osuka's reaction seemed genuine. Can you elaborate? What would an ungenuine reaction from osuka look like?

He called me out for lying, which I obviously was since I was simply entering the game and throwing out nonsense. My perception is that osuka would have tried to buddy me if they were not being genuine. Like agreed with my post and voted the same player, or immediately placed me as Town (since I was quite obviously extending an olive branch). Instead, osuka gives me crap about putting misinformation out there. And then later, they question me for “defending them”. That seems like a Town player actually concerned about getting pocketed. So it earns a pass from me.

[Andresvmb]

your joindate is recent and you sound suspiciously naive to i'm going to assume this is not an alt and lay it out for you: good mafia players will absolutely look like town like 95+% of the time and do all sorts of shenanigans while at it

I guess you’re talking about yourself and not me here, aren’t you?

[Andresvmb]

while Salsa on the other hand is clearly town for taking that push so personally from osuka so i would classify her as a city

Actually as much as it pains me to say it, I kind of agree with this.

[Andresvmb]

I just skimmed through the conversation about chess and minesweeper and whatever - I’m not even going to pretend to care.

[Andresvmb]

i dont think ive ever seen you play scum so i truly dont know how good you are

The answer is not good. I think I have a hard time faking interactions with players that are Town. I always feel like I can do what I want as Town provided I’m trying to get to the right answer. With Scum it’s too much about pushing the right players and working around the players that are impossible to get killed. And there’s always a few.

[Andresvmb]

like i dont really have much reason to believe she's scum but i don't think that reaction changes based on her alignment. why do you think that's towny?

I thought most of their posting was Scummy actually. To be transparent. But I have a hard time thinking that Scum get so offended by something so fast. And I really don’t put you down as the player to engage in that sort of dumb theater with a Partner so I’m going to assume at worst, you two are not aligned.

[Andresvmb]

Symptom of low brain power???? Really bro??? If you can't play respectfully, don't bother to engage with me ever, please.

Like c’mon. They actually read like they’re pissed off hahaha and they’re not even using it as a way to SR you and vote you. Since, you know, the idea was that I’m trying to pocket you. It’s too... self-righteous.

[Andresvmb]

i dont think ive ever seen you play scum so i truly dont know how good you are

The answer is not good. I think I have a hard time faking interactions with players that are Town. I always feel like I can do what I want as Town provided I’m trying to get to the right answer. With Scum it’s too much about pushing the right players and working around the players that are impossible to get killed. And there’s always a few.

and how was i supposed to know this before you told me? in fact how am I even supposed to take this at face value?

Don’t, I don’t care. Save it until when I’m actually Scum and then use it against me. It’ll be obvious, I’m telling you. In the mean time, keep it in your back pocket.

[Andresvmb]

like i dont really have much reason to believe she's scum but i don't think that reaction changes based on her alignment. why do you think that's towny?

I thought most of their posting was Scummy actually. To be transparent. But I have a hard time thinking that Scum get so offended by something so fast. And I really don’t put you down as the player to engage in that sort of dumb theater with a Partner so I’m going to assume at worst, you two are not aligned.

when was the last time you saw _anyone_ get that offended that fast, regardless of alignment? i don't think i have ever

That fast? Hm. I do know of a player that had a knack for insulting others and getting under people’s skin. In fact, I think I was warned ahead of the game about them being potentially toxic. They didn’t disappoint. I don’t think you’ve done anything that merited that strong of a reaction, but suggesting that someone had low brain power isn’t your finest moment haha

[Andresvmb]

it was 50/50 she wanted to vote me or she wanted to throw hands in a mcdonalds parking lot at 3 am

Hands, a bottle of whiskey, a half eaten burger... Actually, I’m feeling a bit hungry right now. McDonald’s doesn’t sound so bad.

[Andresvmb]

I think Anya’s instinct to vote a player that’s lurking given how the game has gone has some merit.

[Andresvmb]

Am I confirmed town yet?

No.

VOTE: VFP

[Andresvmb]

I think Anya’s instinct to vote a player that’s lurking given how the game has gone has some merit.

come on man isn’t this like scum 101

You know what I’ve learned from playing more than a few games around here? The Scum like to control the game state only when they absolutely have to (unless the Scum have a few really seasoned or skilled players, and there’s just not that many players like that out there). If they feel we’re closing in, then they start pushing back. Otherwise? They let the Town eat themselves. The easiest way to avoid that is by getting the harder players to read to either post or die.

[Andresvmb]

I think Anya’s instinct to vote a player that’s lurking given how the game has gone has some merit.

come on man isn’t this like scum 101

You know what I’ve learned from playing more than a few games around here? The Scum like to control the game state only when they absolutely have to (unless the Scum have a few really seasoned or skilled players, and there’s just not that many players like that out there). If they feel we’re closing in, then they start pushing back. Otherwise? They let the Town eat themselves. The easiest way to avoid that is by getting the harder players to read to either post or die.

as scum, that’s a move that takes zero effort and has like nearly zero risk

That’s only if the players we push don’t make any effort to fight back. And we do take substantial risk in leaving players that don’t want to actually make their alignments more obvious to the rest of us. You might think short term it’s a bad play, but I’ve lost way too many games because the more obvious players are killed first, the Town make a few mistakes, and the players left at the end have limited posting histories and bad voting records.

[Andresvmb]

That’s until you can sell me on someone that’s actually Scummy of course I wouldn’t pass up on such a vote. But it’s still early in the game and we have multiple players with <5 posts. Like c’mon now. And affirming that you’re confirmed Town by your second post and not putting anything else out there does ping me.

[Andresvmb]

first of all: “we”?

The Town.

[Andresvmb]

really what i said was that you shouldn’t give anya towncred for that

I haven’t made up my mind about Anya at all btw. But at the very least I can understand what they appear to be going for.

[Andresvmb]

That’s until you can sell me on someone that’s actually Scummy of course I wouldn’t pass up on such a vote. But it’s still early in the game and we have multiple players with <5 posts. Like c’mon now. And affirming that you’re confirmed Town by your second post and not putting anything else out there does ping me.

isn’t that like shitposting 101?

Isn’t this just asking random questions 101?

[Andresvmb]

first of all: “we”?

The Town.

i literally started the post you quoted with “as scum”

i’m not ready to call that a slip but that’s one of the weirdest posts i’ve ever seen from you

Scum slips are rare. And I don’t make them.

What I was saying is that we do run the risk of letting Scum get away with a few easy executions, yes. That’s a risk. But that only happens if the players being pushed don’t fight back. If they do, and we can correctly read the reactions, then we can move on and find a better target. People tend to more actively participate when they’re under pressure. I am tired of letting Town skate by just so that they can be made easy targets later in games.

[Andresvmb]

That’s until you can sell me on someone that’s actually Scummy of course I wouldn’t pass up on such a vote. But it’s still early in the game and we have multiple players with <5 posts. Like c’mon now. And affirming that you’re confirmed Town by your second post and not putting anything else out there does ping me.

isn’t that like shitposting 101?

Isn’t this just asking random questions 101?

come on you’re better than this

i’m saying that’s a shitpost and you shouldn’t take it seriously

Yeah it’s a shitpost I agree. So? Where’s the real content? A player with two posts isn’t worth defending as far as I’m concerned.

[Andresvmb]

Shouldn't you be more worried about scum lurkers than town lurkers?

What are you asking me exactly? Where is my vote right now?

[Andresvmb]

Let's talk about this. Can you explain what you mean by "letting them stay in the game"?

Not voting for them and asking for their thoughts.

[Andresvmb]

Osuka's reaction of not believing you (prudent) while not acting like it was a blatant joke (not prudent at all) would be the last reaction I would expect.

@Osuka you want to comment on this? I did actually think you were giving me crap in a light hearted kind of way (I’m reading the combination of 31, 32 and 33 as not particularly serious).

[Andresvmb]

DADDY

[Andresvmb]

^sorry that’s the one and only time I’m going to do that.

[Andresvmb]

That is a bizarre way to view the effect of a single vote. But putting that aside, can you show me where you actually ask for their thoughts?

Did you expect to directly ask: can you give me your thoughts on x? Because I haven’t done that. I did however suggest that we vote the player asking for more votes on them. That’s me directly wanting to interact with someone. You could just read my posts also.

[Andresvmb]

expect to

expect me to*

[Andresvmb]

That's not you trying to learn Osuka's thoughts; that you trying to get Osuka to go along with your thoughts.

That’s not how I phrased my proposition at all. Had I said - the player asking for more votes for you is Scum, vote them with me. That would be what you suggest. But I didn’t do that. I said if you want, we can vote them. That would typically have elicited a yeah, makes sense, I’ll do it. Or no, they’re fine, here’s why. Or maybe even actually I think x is better.

[Andresvmb]

No.

VOTE: VFP

I guess yours was lost in the post then.

Anyway, at everyone else, until someone slips up I'm going to coast. Feel free to give me reason outside of gut or meta to why I should consider someone scum though.

If only I could care as little about helping as this player does. My life would be filled with far less stress.

[Andresvmb]

what exactly is it about me that gives you bad vibes? the fact I'm actually going to try and find scum?

case in point: what the fuck is this post? this is amateur hour

I actually laughed really hard at this hahaha

[Andresvmb]

like really do 279 and 280 strike anyone as genuine? asking the room

they look like they could be fake

this looks like it could be fake too

could be but i already did say i was getting the heeby jeebies

I think osuka was saying that your response was fake.

[Andresvmb]

like really do 279 and 280 strike anyone as genuine? asking the room

they look like they could be fake

this looks like it could be fake too

could be but i already did say i was getting the heeby jeebies

I think osuka was saying that your response was fake.

isn't that exactly what his response is to?

Yeah I guess you’re right. But who says yeah maybe my response could be fake? Hahaha I mean if you said that my response was fake I would tell you that you’re wrong and explain why. But I guess STD is trying to look at it from your perspective.

[Andresvmb]

??? yeah i got that lol

I was just a bit surprised you didn’t defend your statement. Like why give an inch to someone saying your response is fake when it isn’t?

[Andresvmb]

Why did you take it so seriously?

Where you voting me at the time? That might have been why I thought maybe it wasn’t all just sarcasm.

[Andresvmb]

pawnard, what do you think of Andres?

Can you refresh your read on me? You seem mighty interested in what others think of me. What’s your take?

[Andresvmb]

This post by Andresvmb is something a filthy rat would say: viewtopic.php?p=12701800#p12701800

Your read of my entrance is what bad Scum would argue.

[Andresvmb]

I agree with Save The Dragons' posts so he must be town, but it's possible Andres is ragging on his buddy viewtopic.php?p=12701981#p12701981

And this is already a read by association? Never mind it’s horrible. I’ll be watching you.

[Andresvmb]

while Salsa on the other hand is clearly town for taking that push so personally from osuka so i would classify her as a city

Actually as much as it pains me to say it, I kind of agree with this.

Ah yes, 2 of yall called it town, that's why it stuck with me, like, if anything, I've had more meltdowns as scum than town... not sure why a non game related thing sold 2 of you on salsa being town...

Why do you focus so much on how you react to toxic players when evaluating someone else’s reaction? Regardless, that was my take. What specifically makes you think Salsa had a Scummy meltdown beyond your own history?

[Andresvmb]

while Salsa on the other hand is clearly town for taking that push so personally from osuka so i would classify her as a city

Actually as much as it pains me to say it, I kind of agree with this.

Ah yes, 2 of yall called it town, that's why it stuck with me, like, if anything, I've had more meltdowns as scum than town... not sure why a non game related thing sold 2 of you on salsa being town...

are you scum reading both of them?

I'm saying I'm a little sus of them, it's too early to have genuine reads when everyone has just been posting whatever

I think this is crap btw. So you’re allowed to be suspicious of players for having some reads, but nobody can question you on two Scum reads? If anything I would actually expect you to have a vague sense of what you think of VFP by now too. Maybe even Save The Dragons. Like I don’t think it’s entirely unbelievable that someone would hold some sort of view of those slots.

[Andresvmb]

So just suggesting that everyone has just been posting whatever and reads can’t be genuine is a load of crap.

VOTE: Andante

[Andresvmb]

@Green Crayons can you post? What’s going on? You actually tried to stay somewhat involved as Scum last time we played and revealed your alignment somewhat quickly in my eyes. Are you trying to avoid that here?

[Andresvmb]

I think it’s possible that the Scum are actually trying to get away with my murder here. Fascinating.

[Andresvmb]

I’ll catch up let me read. I do have some work to take care of so I’ll be back when I’m done with that.

[Andresvmb]

you also seems suspicious about what the cat said of you. it's that same "why are you targeting me" nervous energy.

No such energy since I’m Town but you don’t know that. I’m skeptical of being pushed when I’ve gathered some stubborn votes because there’s probably Scum there. That’s more where it’s coming from.

[Andresvmb]

My thoughts on this game right now... are complicated. I have a job interview in a bit and after that I'm gonna sit down and organize thoughts on everyone, I didn't realize how fast this would get this chaotic lol

This really should happen.

[Andresvmb]

@Andres, please tell me why you took that post so seriously:

Why are you stuck on an early post that doesn’t really mean much? So I mistakenly assumed a vote was more serious than it was, realized the error of my ways and moved on. What’s the big deal?

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: VFP

[Andresvmb]

I didn't find anything particularly townie in the rest of their iso.

Please elaborate. I’m dying to see what kind of nonsense you come up with.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Haschel

would also vote for Andres

Then do it. Your vote for Haschel is wasted since they’re getting prodded and there’s not much momentum there.

Like in all honesty I would rather get executed quickly than spend a whole lot of time re-reading this game when I’m getting pushed for entirely bullshit reasons.

[Andresvmb]

Like c’mon Asteria has apparently claimed that I was ignoring them when I didn’t respond to them because I literally wasn’t around this game. And they highlighted like my first post which was mostly a joke. There’s no real scum hunting there it’s just gibberish.

[Andresvmb]

SCUMMY RODENTS
Andante
Andresvmb
Haschel Cedricson
Salsabil Faria
Green Crayons

And why am I here exactly? That whole post has no words for me, yet I’m not Null or anything but amongst the potential Scum. Not surprising I guess.

[Andresvmb]

Scum:
Andresvmb - Still a scumread for 40 and I've been trying to progress that conversation but I've been ignored. I agree with Haschel about 180. I didn't find anything particularly townie in the rest of their iso.

I’m talking about this. I asked some pointed questions back but have not gotten responses yet. It must be because they’re ignoring me even though I’m trying to further the conversation

[Andresvmb]

Yeah that. It’s actually Robert who seems to be carrying me as Scum for my first post still.

[Andresvmb]

@Andres, please tell me why you took that post so seriously:

Why are you stuck on an early post that doesn’t really mean much? So I mistakenly assumed a vote was more serious than it was, realized the error of my ways and moved on. What’s the big deal?

Big deal is you overreacted to it like you're overreacting to my questioning of it here

I’m not “overreacting” to your questioning. I’m dismissing it as irrelevant. You have decided that tunneling me is the right approach so you keep focusing on literally my first few posts and don’t want to re-evaluate based on anything else I’m saying. Thus, your argument is silly and worthy of ridicule, so I’m ridiculing it. Overreacting would be calling you sure Scum for making a bad argument. I’m not. I’m just suggesting you should move on because you look silly having (what seems to me) one strong SR based on posting around RVS.

[Andresvmb]

I didn't find anything particularly townie in the rest of their iso.

Please elaborate. I’m dying to see what kind of nonsense you come up with.

I don't really know how to elaborate on that. Nothing you did struck me as particularly towny or something scum couldn't/wouldn't do

And why is this even worth writing out? Just say gut. I would more happily accept gut than this irrefutable nonsense.

[Andresvmb]

I’m VLA until tomorrow. I need to catch up and re-read in some detail.

[Andresvmb]

Okay I’m back.

@osuka, yes you should.

I’ll be catching up soon. I’m also around for a few hours.

[Andresvmb]

ARAGORN

Definitely Aragorn.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Robert M. Hunter

[Andresvmb]

I really would like to blow up Robert.

[Andresvmb]

I’ve taken a few days off of this game mostly, but I started re-reading, and I really hate Robert hahaha and I think their claim is horrible, and the crumb makes no sense from a real PR. We should blow it up.

[Andresvmb]

i don't understand your pooky tr

And I don't understand your crayons tr

Andante I think Crayons is Town, as I think you are btw.

[Andresvmb]

I really would like to blow up Robert.

Sadly we're not getting the tracker today. Gonna have to find someone else who preferably isn't Pooky

They’re not a Tracker - that’s nonsense. I have never seen an actual Town PR Tracker blow their spot up so fast. That’s ridiculous.

[Andresvmb]

I don’t believe it for a second. In these parts, for some reason we let real Scummy claims live, and we pretend as if any information they give can potentially be useful. Yeah, don’t think so.

[Andresvmb]

Look I need to really catch up and keep reading, but blowing up Pooky seems ridiculous. Who is pushing that, Save The Dragons? That’s another potential Scum. I wouldn’t listen to a word they said.

[Andresvmb]

Andres if robert's off the table today who would you want to go after

Frankly? Probably you. But like I said, I want to make sure I’m not completely off. I need to finish reading first.

[Andresvmb]

Also Andante is like obvious Town. Andante go look at those that have voted or dismissed you (excluding me, I was wrong - sorry). Tell me what you see.

[Andresvmb]

I don’t believe it for a second. In these parts, for some reason we let real Scummy claims live, and we pretend as if any information they give can potentially be useful. Yeah, don’t think so.

Look, we have to move on past it. I wanted him too... but with me as outed GS and him as outed Tracker, we see how night actions play out tonight. He's not the solo scum, so we can go for a partner here, then re visit his case tomorrow. Trust me. I think he's scum too, and I'm quite certain he'll track me or something if he is real, but we should focus on someone else for now

Okay but why are we letting Scum live? If you really think you have Scum on your sights, trying to figure out the whole Team D1 is really tough. I would push the obvious Scum. I noticed the same exact resistance PawnsGambit highlighted - I think we should make a real push.

[Andresvmb]

Anyway, sorry to interrupt. I’ll go back to finish reading and you all have fun.

[Andresvmb]

Andante I think your reads are off, but your PR Claim will probably get you killed. So I won’t have to worry too much about it. I think both Lemons and Crayons are Town. I don’t know why, I just do. Lemons seems confrontational but actually looking for Scum. Crayons is being insightful and not as present. If they were Scum, I think they’d be playing it a little differently. Again, this is a bit old, so bear with me as I catch up. But I wouldn’t nuke either of those slots. Not yet at least.

[Andresvmb]

the last time i played with a mafia doctor announced was this game:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84523

there was a town 1-shot tracker, a town gunsmith and an informed miller who knew how many guns there were in the game.

This post alone makes Pooky Town probably. If I had to guess.

[Andresvmb]

Alright.

VOTE: Save The Dragons

Now, seriously, I’ll be back in like 2 hours. I need to focus.

[Andresvmb]

{Asteria, Save The Dragons, Robert}. This is my early solve for the Team. Let’s see if I nailed at least 2 later.

[Andresvmb]

My reads this early are bad so hahaha I will probably look back on this with some shame. But seriously, I would blow those three up.

[Andresvmb]

tbh I think Robert messed up his claim by not claiming 1 or 2 shot... cause I don't believe we have a full tracker, which means I'm dead tonight ( but!!! mafia, do you really want to kill me? when I could get a positive gun check on a cop and tunnel our cop... just saying... please let me live

Don’t post stuff like this. It makes me want to TR you less. Do not appeal to the Mafia. They’re going to do what they’re going to do.

[Andresvmb]

I'd be very impressed with Andante if she is scum here tbh

Yeah no agreed. I was just saying - I hate direct appeals to Mafia I tend to SR that shit. It’s too performative. I suppose it’s fine since it’s coming from the obvious claimed PR but still.

[Andresvmb]

@Andante I haven’t finished reading. Remember that. I’m like trying to stay up to date with the latest posts so I know what’s going on while catching up at the same time.

In any case, you underestimate how much effort Scum may put into the game. Since they know there’s multiple guns out there, thanks to you, they’re scouring to see who gives off any clues.

[Andresvmb]

i don't think i would vig you

if i said this was a vig crumb and claimed vig, would you believe me?

100% I mean, who's to say Robert isn't VT baiting a kill right now, I'd love to just leave him alone for the moment and try to find someone else...

They’re not. You need to think more strategically because this is garbage. If I’m of some importance to my Team, then typically I fight hard, hide my claim (to make sure it’s useful), and only claim it when I absolutely have to. Does RMH fit that pattern to you?

[Andresvmb]

I would vote T3 here... that slot has just had no significant contribution, half me just feels we'd be better just killing it, and living with the consequence of it, cause like, we can't make a read off nothing... at least everyone here has had something relevant, that slot? is a mess...

VOTE: T3

This is wrong. Please unvote.

[Andresvmb]

When I claimed, not a single player had expressed a sentiment of finding me townie, everyone that weighed in on the topic of my alignment wanted me eliminated, so I had no choice.

You don’t know how it would have played out. If you’re a real Town PR, you force the Scum to vote you. Just claiming like you did reeks of Scum trying to avoid pressure.

[Andresvmb]

Sigh whatever I am going to ignore Andante’s opinion for now. I want STD dead. There’s enough interest in starting a counterwagon Town can get behind that we might be right about that one.

[Andresvmb]

are you seriously starting a flash train on a slot nobody's made a real case on

The protector of lurkers has spoken.

if you seriously think flashtraining a slot only because they're lurking is a good idea then i have news for you, buddy

you're a moron

Why are you so intent on engaging RMH like this? If you think they’re Scum shouldn’t you be ignoring them?

[Andresvmb]

Andante, I would urge you to take a step back. I don’t think you are reading the game properly if you really think everyone else is being sufficiently Towny. RMH is engaging in this behavior because they’re threatened and don’t know how to respond, and can’t call osuka Scum. At least that’s how I read it.

[Andresvmb]

^ah, well I spoke too soon.

[Andresvmb]

@osuka vote STD. I was re-reading and I started liking VFP actually.

[Andresvmb]

osuka, robert, you 2 trying to continue a fight will only discourage others from jumping in and talking here, so please.

There’s some Scum motivation in this too. Make a fight look sufficiently annoying and pollute the thread, and drive Town apathy. I’ve seen it before.

[Andresvmb]

Andante, I would urge you to take a step back. I don’t think you are reading the game properly if you really think everyone else is being sufficiently Towny. RMH is engaging in this behavior because they’re threatened and don’t know how to respond, and can’t call osuka Scum. At least that’s how I read it.

Uh excuse me? if this were my first game, I'd be pissed at osuka right here, and that's exactly how Robert seems to feel. I do think everyone else has been far better than haschel/t3

Sigh. Look I’m going to trust my vote. I think you’re wrong. Just because you’re Town doesn’t mean I have to listen to your view at all. And yeah, I think you’re way off.

[Andresvmb]

Andante, I would urge you to take a step back. I don’t think you are reading the game properly if you really think everyone else is being sufficiently Towny. RMH is engaging in this behavior because they’re threatened and don’t know how to respond, and can’t call osuka Scum. At least that’s how I read it.

Uh excuse me? if this were my first game, I'd be pissed at osuka right here, and that's exactly how Robert seems to feel. I do think everyone else has been far better than haschel/t3

Sigh. Look I’m going to trust my vote. I think you’re wrong. Just because you’re Town doesn’t mean I have to listen to your view at all. And yeah, I think you’re way off.

I'm not saying you have to sheep me, I'm only fighting we don't get pooky here

osuka, robert, you 2 trying to continue a fight will only discourage others from jumping in and talking here, so please.

There’s some Scum motivation in this too. Make a fight look sufficiently annoying and pollute the thread, and drive Town apathy. I’ve seen it before.

considering osuka already tried to fight salsa, we're not doing this again... doesn't seem to have this hidden agenda you say it does. honestly the more you talk the more my tr on you slips lmao

The more I talk the more your TR slips? Why, because I’m not mindlessly agreeing with you?

[Andresvmb]

And I’m not even fighting for a Pooky push. How can you not think that it’s weird that the two Scummiest slots in the game decided to completely start a push for a player you were pushing? That didn’t strike you as interesting?

[Andresvmb]

Lets do this, everyone here, gather your thoughts on Asteria, we'll discuss that slot and if we think it's town or scum. I think this'll be most beneficial right now.

I would already blow Asteria up but they could just be off I don’t know. STD could easily be Scum.

[Andresvmb]

It's not "zero content" - it's 100% scummy content, all of it.

Do you really believe a player with no prior experience in their first game would come out with a post like this, no hesitation? C’mon now.

[Andresvmb]

And I’m not even fighting for a Pooky push. How can you not think that it’s weird that the two Scummiest slots in the game decided to completely start a push for a player you were pushing? That didn’t strike you as interesting?

Which 2 joined me?

STD + RMH.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: T3

VOTE: T3

I would vote T3 here... that slot has just had no significant contribution, half me just feels we'd be better just killing it, and living with the consequence of it, cause like, we can't make a read off nothing... at least everyone here has had something relevant, that slot? is a mess...

VOTE: T3

Like this is the sequence. Just when you’ve been fighting Pooky who is the alternative to STD. Do you not see the obvious here?

[Andresvmb]

PookyTheMagicalBear [4]: Salsabil Faria, Robert M Hunter, Save The Dragons, InsidiousLemons

Look who was sitting on Pooky, who you’re defending. And look where Pooky’s vote is. How can you really not find the compromise vote onto T3 to be Scummy as all hell?

[Andresvmb]

PookyTheMagicalBear [4]: Salsabil Faria, Robert M Hunter, Save The Dragons, InsidiousLemons

Look who was sitting on Pooky, who you’re defending. And look where Pooky’s vote is. How can you really not find the compromise vote onto T3 to be Scummy as all hell?

You're calling it a compromise vote. I'm not.

You’re Scum. I’m not.

[Andresvmb]

Robert, there is nothing alignment indicative with not wanting to yeet someone with no lines...

I just want you to realize that Robert’s viewpoint makes no sense at all. I have a SR of them (I don’t even recall putting out a read of T3 at all btw), but me not “wanting to vote T3” is where they should be looking? C’mon it’s totally unrealistic and absurd. Robert is almost surely Scum (and bad at hiding it), and the Scum are sinking themselves trying to defend them and each other. If STD flips Town, I’ll be amazed.

[Andresvmb]

what even is your case on me, andres

Just look at your ISO. You’ve basically been pushing Town consistently. Or everyone I TR at least. Your push on me was bad, but you dropped it when you realized I was being TR. And then what did you do? You went to push Andante. I mean that alone is enough for me wanting to get you executed. You’re also strongly defending RMH who is Scummy as all hell.

[Andresvmb]

Maybe Andres wants to eliminate the tracker during the day so he's free to night kill the gunsmith.

This speculation is ridiculous since the Gunsmith is most certainly a high value target for the Scum. Just useless speculation.

You know, you need to try and show more nuance in your Scum game. Like you’re actually considering what’s going on. Just SR’ing me when it’s convenient seems bad. Not everyone that’s SR’ing you can be Scum. So maybe I could be going wrong. But you’re just resorting to attacks. That’s what’s getting you killed here.

[Andresvmb]

what even is your case on me, andres

Just look at your ISO. You’ve basically been pushing Town consistently. Or everyone I TR at least. Your push on me was bad, but you dropped it when you realized I was being TR. And then what did you do? You went to push Andante. I mean that alone is enough for me wanting to get you executed. You’re also strongly defending RMH who is Scummy as all hell.

did you read the part of the game where i voted robert or are you just going to glance over that/call that bussing and call it a day

did you read my case against andante before she claimed? did the thought i could be wrong ever cross your mind?

We’ll find out I guess.

[Andresvmb]

I've been nothing but courteous, but at some point TONIGHT I've had enough being called a moron. Why are you misrepresenting?

I wasn’t talking about personal attacks. I was talking about the way in which you’ve approached my probing. It’s an immediate instinct to attack and deflect. Not to understand my point of view.

[Andresvmb]

You’ve basically been pushing Town consistently. Or

everyone I TR

at least.

I'm going to elaborate on this, this is Day 1, and Andres wants to punish a player for "pushing town" consistently.

Day 1.

For not agreeing with his town reads, and for not voting his scum reads.

Do you guys here consider this townie behavior or scummy behavior?

I’m just curious - what are you hoping to achieve? I think it would be hard for you to argue that me expressing my opinion on the way that I have is coming from the point of view of a Scum player. If I’m Scum, what motivation do I have to jump in the ring and make any decision at all? I could have put a stale vote out, let you all eat each other as you were doing anyway, and stay above the fray. Unless you think I was defending my buddy in Pooky or something.

[Andresvmb]

Why do you care to satisfy me if you’re so sure I’m Scum?

[Andresvmb]

Save The Dragons - We have quite similar reads which makes me think he's town. Seems to be trying to hunt.

???

Robert M Hunter - 449 readslist feels ok. Also I'm apparently pointed and fearless so consider me pocketed.

?????

Andante - The reaction to Robert was scummy. It was taken way too seriously which came off as trying to force a scumread. That said, I don't think scum purposefully makes themselves stand out like this. We do have the same insidious read which is a +1. Also hope the job interview went well.

????????????

do you just townread people who have the same reads as you? what the fuck? i can't think of a worse way to play the game

either you have no genuine reads whatsoever and you're just making shit up and going with it as you go, or it's just _that_ easy to pocket you and you're a liability. which one is it?

Save The Dragons and I have very similar reads overall which at least means, since I'm sharing those reads with a town mindset, that there's a good chance Dragons is too. I think that's fair for a D1 read. The +1 for sharing the insidious read for Andante was a weak point which is why they're still in my scumpool. We just had the exact same thoughts (which could easily come from scum, again, why they're still in my scumpool). The pocketing thing was a joke, I'm not actually pocketed. I did genuinely thing the readslist was ok though.

Why did you fail to criticize Asteria for what you’re criticizing me for now (the liking someone because they have similar reads thing, which presumably I’m doing the reverse), and focused on osuka’s attack instead?

[Andresvmb]

You think it's a reasonable opinion to judge a player's alignment on Day 1 on whether or not their reads fully align with your own?

You could have asked this of Asteria back then. But you didn’t. At all. Why?

[Andresvmb]

It's like you are bullying other players to scumread me. What is the town motivation to do this to a claimed PR on Day 1? I cannot fathom.

Stop acting like a victim. And I’m not bullying anyone. I’m just not going to let you skate by on a claim when your play just seems so Scummy to me.

[Andresvmb]

This is very early in the game and Haschel is picking hard at Andres while sucking up to you. You're probably to vain to see it. He asks a question about a subjective judgment, then nit picks. And comes at Andres again and again.

Now I'm not sure if Haschel is sucking up to a townie and picking on another townie, or sucking up to a townie and ragging on his buddy... or buddying up to his buddy to persecute a townie... chances are it's the first scenario but anything is possible.

I don't see this coming from town.

Also, if Haschel was right to push me (since I’m Scum), why do you want the slot executed? Or do you think that’s bussing from Haschel? Because c’mon now, that seems rather hard to believe don’t you think?

[Andresvmb]

I didn't criticize because I didn't need to... osuka did it first. Why didn't osuka call you out for it, in addition to Asteria? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

This is laughable. You weren’t agreeing with osuka’s push. You were clearly trying to minimize osuka. Around that time you asked them for their reads since they were so full of wisdom. This just isn’t believable at all.

[Andresvmb]

^while also saying that they were defending the lurkers. Like see 594.

[Andresvmb]

suggest

So you’re actually pushing a universe where the Scum are Haschel/T3, osuka, me? That’s your purported solve?

[Andresvmb]

I didn't criticize because I didn't need to... osuka did it first. Why didn't osuka call you out for it, in addition to Asteria? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

This is laughable. You weren’t agreeing with osuka’s push. You were clearly trying to minimize osuka. Around that time you asked them for their reads since they were so full of wisdom. This just isn’t believable at all.

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

You are saying that you didn’t have to criticize Asteria for it because osuka did it. But you weren’t on the same side with osuka, praising their push, agreeing with the criticism. You were criticizing osuka instead. You can’t do the revisionist history you’re doing here and think I’ll believe it. If you had wanted to criticize Asteria’s reasoning, you would have done so. Instead, you derided osuka for their “wisdom”, saying they keep defending lurkers (an attack you have maintained). You can’t now go back and say I didn’t have to do something because osuka did it when you were plainly focused on shitting all over osuka that’s absurd.

[Andresvmb]

I don’t believe this is your first game. I just don’t. It’s your first game, but you know to crumb a role as Tracker in your first post? Try to display humility here and claim you don’t have a solve? Push certain things with full confidence at others? Nah. Something’s way off about you.

[Andresvmb]

I don’t believe this is your first game. I just don’t. It’s your first game, but you know to crumb a role as Tracker in your first post? Try to display humility here and claim you don’t have a solve? Push certain things with full confidence at others? Nah. Something’s way off about you.

It's my first game

here

. How is this alignment indicative anyway?

Not directly. But Andante defended you as if this was your first game of Mafia ever and you clearly didn’t correct the record immediately. Can you post links of the forum you used to play at?

[Andresvmb]

I don’t believe this is your first game. I just don’t. It’s your first game, but you know to crumb a role as Tracker in your first post? Try to display humility here and claim you don’t have a solve? Push certain things with full confidence at others? Nah. Something’s way off about you.

It's my first game

here

. How is this alignment indicative anyway?

Not directly. But Andante defended you as if this was your first game of Mafia ever and you clearly didn’t correct the record immediately. Can you post links of the forum you used to play at?

No.

Any particular reason?

[Andresvmb]

That’s... okay then.

[Andresvmb]

Can you explain more?

I never responded to this. I was talking about 42, 44, as in their reactions to my initial set of posts fakeclaiming N0 cop.

Who is defending who again?

Osuka was defending VFP who at that point in time had made 2 posts. That’s what I was saying wasn’t worth defending much.

This is just for completeness.

[Andresvmb]

what even is your case on me, andres

Just look at your ISO. You’ve basically been pushing Town consistently. Or everyone I TR at least. Your push on me was bad, but you dropped it when you realized I was being TR. And then what did you do? You went to push Andante. I mean that alone is enough for me wanting to get you executed. You’re also strongly defending RMH who is Scummy as all hell.

??????

i've townread you all game andres, don't make me change my mind

Why?

[Andresvmb]

what even is your case on me, andres

Just look at your ISO. You’ve basically been pushing Town consistently. Or everyone I TR at least. Your push on me was bad, but you dropped it when you realized I was being TR. And then what did you do? You went to push Andante. I mean that alone is enough for me wanting to get you executed. You’re also strongly defending RMH who is Scummy as all hell.

??????

i've townread you all game andres, don't make me change my mind

Why?

pushing your townreads = they're scum? what the fuck?

I understand you don’t like that way of forming a worldview, and you criticized Asteria for it. I get that. But I see a lot of reasons to want to SR Robert and STD beyond just that. It’s not strictly that they’ve pushed my TR’s because Insidious has done it at times for instance but I wouldn’t argue Insidious is Scum (their thought process, reactions, and posting just all seem to come from a Scum mindset). It’s the reasoning that’s being used that triggers me.

[Andresvmb]

their thought process, reactions, and posting just all seem to come from a Scum mindset)

I meant to say Town mindset, and that was my reasoning for TR’ing Insidious actually.

[Andresvmb]

Well, if you’ll allow me to be a bit self-centered, Save The Dragons has tried to frame my aggressiveness as potentially coming from Scum for a while this game (no, they don’t know my meta at all, and it’s a weak as hell argument anyway). You described the bulk of my early posting as Towny in 779, and they immediately casted suspicion over your conclusion in 846.

Could I be wrong? Sure. Maybe I need to calibrate my read for his playstyle. Or maybe my gut has caught scum. Who knows?

And just for someone who really doesn’t know my alignment, they do seem oddly insistent on voting my slot, and casting doubt on others TR’ing me.

—

Also, there was some strange coordination that I picked up backing away from my slot when I demonstrated some frustration around 532, 533. And the coordinated voting for T3, the joint SR’ing of Andante (before Andante revealed the potential for a Claim), they all don’t make sense from players that have also expressed Scum Reads of each other.

I mean, I do mean it, RMH is Scummy as all hell. Their two reads lists, lack of activity until they’re pushed, sudden turnaround on Andante before the claim was clear (but only after it was obvious they were a PR), it’s almost too obvious.

[Andresvmb]

i agree that rmh is fairly scummy, but can you really justify execing a tracker claim d1?

I don’t know. It doesn’t look like we’re going to anyway.

[Andresvmb]

And you have seen an Informed GS do so?

There’s definitely a difference in experience here. And the GS has admitted to being bad under pressure, which I don’t think you’ll find me disagreeing with.

[Andresvmb]

Why are you so intent on engaging RMH like this? If you think they’re Scum shouldn’t you be ignoring them?

This is a bad take.
If you think someone is scum you should be focusing on them more to see if you're right.

I was. It’s your take that’s bad.

[Andresvmb]

You are so manipulative.

This is actually spot on.

RMH’s defense that I’m being manipulative is just a cop out and you’re falling for it. They kept asking all these over the top questions about how could I possibly be coming from a Town mindset, but when asked directly why they’re bothering countering me so directly if they’re so sure they’re Scum, they don’t actually say what they very clearly mean.

[Andresvmb]

I was. It’s your take that’s bad.

You did what I said but what I said was a bad take.
Lol?

Your take is bad because I did what you suggested I should do before you even come onto the thread yet you criticize me anyway. So yeah, it’s a bad take.

[Andresvmb]

lmao I know I did the exact same thing... but saying Andre started to look town at the end of the shitshow? I felt quite the opposite, he felt a lot scummier spending so much time on the tracker claim, and had 1 thing "STD could be scum, but tracker is the scummiest one" wasted so much time and effort on something irrelevant...

I can spend as much time as I want pursuing whatever I want if I think it’s relevant. It’s not time wasted, particularly since you can clearly see what I’m thinking. If you think it’s irrelevant that’s up to you, but frankly you’re starting to annoy me now.

[Andresvmb]

And here some people are calling you town

Salsabil walk me through your thinking here - what makes you think Pooky is Scum for that Claim? I’m actually not sure what to think about it, since I actually thought that PGO wasn’t a role that’s typically included in Normal games (as it can be considered bastard).

[Andresvmb]

I DID state my reason for voting STD.
My current solve would be Asteria STD and Robert

Huh. You have my exact same solve.

[Andresvmb]

I think we caught another scum (2).

Sigh.

[Andresvmb]

I didn’t suggest osuka ignore a SR. Or at least not entirely. It was more the way they were approaching it. If all you’re going to do is call the person you SR an idiot and quote their posts and say they’re the dumbest thing ever, how does that help anyone? I’m more than happy to read through interactions and understand points of view. What osuka was doing wasn’t helpful. I was trying to move away from that.

[Andresvmb]

Well Pooky, I agree with your reasoning there for what it’s worth.

[Andresvmb]

Andres and VFP are 2 scum

just reading their interactions with each other... it reads as scum talking to scum...

You’re actually hurting the Town right now.

[Andresvmb]

Compomise: vote Asteria

You know, I disliked Asteria’s posting early on I did, but I think they’ve had a few good posts actually. I want STD to flip more strongly than I want to compromise vote Asteria, who could very well be Town.

[Andresvmb]

I think STD’s basic tunneling of Pooky who I think reads like Town to me is enough for a D1 execution. They’re insistent because at this stage they probably don’t have a choice. Again, it’s a worthy execution and one we should just commit to. There’s so much resistance that I think it’s entirely possible that it’ll flip Scum.

[Andresvmb]

when i flip take a hard look at andres who seemed to decide i was scum and then made the world fit that view

Yep. Let’s do that.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: andres i guess??? idfk anymore

So we are actually going to end up doing the dance at the end.

[Andresvmb]

like does anyone here even think GCray cares who gets eliminated today?

I’ll say this - not a reason to TR btw, but I faced Green Crayons as Scum and their approach was just markedly different from their approach here. It’s the main reason I didn’t want to execute the slot yet.

[Andresvmb]

I’ll keep my vote where it is for now.

[Andresvmb]

I don't get it, town shouldn't play for survival??

No you're playing to find scum as town.
It's your Wincon, lim all scum. At no point does it say survive.
Scum is basically the opposite.

This is absolutely correct. I don’t understand how this is even remotely controversial.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Crayons

Reading Salsabil today convinced me that he's town.

This is all the proof I need that GC is going to flip Town. I was just waiting for it.

[Andresvmb]

Prove me wrong then.

I don’t have to prove you wrong. You need to read me correctly. Like you’re responsible for your reads. If you don’t like my answers that’s alright. But I keep having to say this - if you can’t read me properly, that’s not my fault.

[Andresvmb]

Prove me wrong then.

I don’t have to prove you wrong. You need to read me correctly. Like you’re responsible for your reads. If you don’t like my answers that’s alright. But I keep having to say this - if you can’t read me properly, that’s not my fault.

And you've serious,

Spoiler:

issue......

No I don’t have an ego problem. You’re basically making me responsible for your read. I refuse to take responsibility for your mistakes. It’s not an ego problem, it’s a basic allocation of responsibility problem.

[Andresvmb]

It's not controversial??

If there’s disagreement about it then it’s controversial. Not like rage inducing or anything.

Now if you want to complain about a discussion where the Scum can easily engage in some posturing, that’s one of those.

[Andresvmb]

If you think, Robert M Hunter is scum, who can be his partners?

I think I’ve been crystal clear about who I would like to see executed at this juncture.

[Andresvmb]

I love that show so I’m going to give you a pass for that.

[Andresvmb]

,

Yeah MOD. Where are the votes at?

[Andresvmb]

Mention again then? I didn't memorize the thread.

My vote is on Save The Dragons, and they’re voting me back. The only reason STD isn’t voting Crayons with their buddy is because they professed a TR there and it would make them look even worse than they already look. RMH on the other hand is more than happy to pile on, since it agrees with their pool of like 5 players they’ve previously expressed a SR on.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Anya

bye!! you are the chosen one

I seriously would have pegged you as Scum already purely based on how bloodthirsty you seem if not for your claim.

[Andresvmb]

Well maybe that’s a bit harsh - when I was re-reading, I did think your early posts were coming from Town.

[Andresvmb]

But in all seriousness, stop moving around so much. Sit down, really think about what you want, and put a vote down. You’ve voted Crayons, Anya, STD, and VFP just in the last day by my count. I seriously doubt there’s even that many Scum in the game, and based on your behavior, I seriously doubt you have the probable 3 Scum in there.

[Andresvmb]

change of plans, Andres is the chosen one for the quick hammer. go go go

VOTE: Andres

Like this is just sad. I really want to just tune you out at this point.

[Andresvmb]

But in all seriousness, stop moving around so much. Sit down, really think about what you want, and put a vote down. You’ve voted Crayons, Anya, STD, and VFP just in the last day by my count. I seriously doubt there’s even that many Scum in the game, and based on your behavior, I seriously doubt you have the probable 3 Scum in there.

STD is town. Anya also probably town

Why is STD Town? Like seriously, you’ve said you don’t have a clue, yet you insist on defending that slot. Why?

[Andresvmb]

Wait, did

T3

just hammered???

Definitely not. The votes have been moving all around but I’m pretty sure we haven’t even gotten close to 7. And where’s the 30 minutes left coming from? I thought we had at least a day left.

[Andresvmb]

Ah no T3 meant it’s 30 minutes until we find out where the votes are as per the Mod. Sorry.

[Andresvmb]

I think you underestimate the pressure of deadline, but at this point I think STD is a fine execution.

[Andresvmb]

Btw if you all are really going to drive Crayons up, you should let them Claim before being hammered. Crayons said they would be back tonight so we should wait on that.

[Andresvmb]

@osuka you have a really negative view of RMH correct? Do you think Scum!VFP makes 854 if that’s the case?

[Andresvmb]

std why are you voting Andres

i don't think he's hunting i think he picked the answer first and tried to justify his reads

And I think you’re blatant Scum. The people for some reason seem to be giving you a pass for your shit push on Andante, but I don’t easily forget.

See, among the more obvious players here, Andante is clearly Town. The confusion around their role, their emotional defense when pushed, their constant probing and voting. You can tell they’re not aligned with anybody and are trying hard to progress the game. Yet you insisted to push them only until is was completely untenable. But no consequences for you. How amazing.

[Andresvmb]

Yet you insisted to push them only until is was completely untenable.

*insisted on pushing them only until it was completely untenable.

My English is bad.

[Andresvmb]

i don't think he's hunting i think he picked the answer first and tried to justify his reads

Also his pushing

Asteria

on the basis of a joke post and scumreading her aren't feel nice. I need to ISO both of them later but

osuka

's reasons to townread him is also not enough, mainly meta iirc.

You’re painfully off and it’s bugging me because you are also most likely Town. Like get off your high horse. Doesn’t feel nice has nothing to do with playing to win the game.

[Andresvmb]

My pushes don’t have to be “nice”, and I don’t have to like shit reasoning against my slot.

[Andresvmb]

i don't think he's hunting i think he picked the answer first and tried to justify his reads

Also his pushing

Asteria

on the basis of a joke post and scumreading her aren't feel nice. I need to ISO both of them later but

osuka

's reasons to townread him is also not enough, mainly meta iirc.

You’re painfully off and it’s bugging me because you are also most likely Town. Like get off your high horse. Doesn’t feel nice has nothing to do with playing to win the game.

Egoestic much bRuH?? Trying to copy

osuka

in toxic gameplay??? For what, getting towncred like he is getting????

You’re SR’ing me and constantly shading me. You’re wrong. It’s not egotistic. You’re just off.

[Andresvmb]

My pushes don’t have to be “nice”, and I don’t have to like shit reasoning against my slot.

You're a

pure arrogant person

, I don't think I actually want to play with you and

osuka

in any other game anymore.

I don’t understand why you would play Mafia and expect that you would just be constantly praised for everything you say, even when you’re wrong. Makes no sense to me. I’m not playing toxic, I keep asking you to reevaluate and you keep failing to do it. You’re just constantly shading me, yet I have to sit here and take it because your think skin can’t take criticism.

[Andresvmb]

I haven’t as far as I can remember insulted anyone, or used personal attacks. But you seem to think that just criticizing logic and putting arguments forward is arrogance. It’s annoying. But I’m not the one wishing that we don’t play another game again.

[Andresvmb]

yes i stopped pushing them when it was obvious they were town. when they fumbled the claim and constantly started voting like crazy. the emotion point i do not agree with. but you may want to read again and find out when i stopped pushing andante, it's not how you have it in your head apparently

I am reading the exact part just to make sure I don’t have you wrong. This is your last post before Andante made it obvious they were a PR, and you backed off:

897

[Andresvmb]

Like do not think people can’t just go back and look.

[Andresvmb]

My pushes don’t have to be “nice”, and I don’t have to like shit reasoning against my slot.

and yet you didn't really defend the accusation you're not hunting

I don’t have to defend against such obvious nonsense. Anybody can read my ISO and figure out what I’m doing.

[Andresvmb]

okay when was i supposed to know Andante was town

If you weren’t Scum maybe you would have picked up on it during your back and forth prior to forcing a Claim. And you’ve been pushing me ever since, and Pooky, only to backtrack when it started to become obvious again that they’re not getting through the finish line without you looking like crap if they flip Town. And of course I know my alignment. Look you can’t escape it. I have a feeling I’m going to flip at some point. I’ll either get executed here because I’m wrong somewhere or NK’ed. And when that happens, I hope you get all the scrutiny you deserve.

[Andresvmb]

My pushes don’t have to be “nice”, and I don’t have to like shit reasoning against my slot.

and yet you didn't really defend the accusation you're not hunting

I don’t have to defend against such obvious nonsense. Anybody can read my ISO and figure out what I’m doing.

if it's so obvious humor me

Nah do your homework. Unlike what you’ve been getting away with most of the game.

[Andresvmb]

@Mod, I’m not going to stand for being called toxic. Either give me a warning or Salsabil. I’m done with this back and forth.

[Andresvmb]

mod please replace me I’m not able to play at this rate. Sorry datisi

You’re supposed to do this via PM.

[Andresvmb]

@Mod, I’m not going to stand for being called toxic. Either give me a warning or Salsabil. I’m done with this back and forth.

Lol! Why you do want a warning if you're not being toxic and I'm lying?

You’ve called me egotistic, arrogant, and declared that you don’t want to play with me again. That’s not relevant to the game. It doesn’t matter if you’re correct, I haven’t called you any names. I have however complained about you reading me wrong, and I have also pointed out that you seem to be very bad at taking criticism in the normal course of the game.

If I’m being toxic, and you’re right, I would like the Mod to clarify it. If I’m not, then for both our sakes, it would be best if we kept the focus on the game.

[Andresvmb]

you're a dork

apologies i went too far

Nah it’s fine. I’m not this sensitive.

[Andresvmb]

there were still people on pooky when i stopped voting pooky

This isn’t a defense for your actions yes? You’ve been pushing Pooky since the 400s, and only stopped after Pooky sprung into action.

[Andresvmb]

i did

i vote robert in 917, several posts and several minutes after she claimed she was not a vanilla townie.

You don’t need Andante to full Claim c’mon now. Do you really expect anyone to think this is a genuine defense? Once Andante puts out that they’re not a Vanilla Townie, your push is doomed and you know it. Everything else after is you just covering your ass.

[Andresvmb]

but you have the answer ahead of time - STD is scum, therefore there's only one way this could have gone. that's not hunting.

People can use their heads and make this determination.

[Andresvmb]

but you have the answer ahead of time - STD is scum, therefore there's only one way this could have gone. that's not hunting.

People can use their heads and make this determination.

@TOWN do you agree with the following statment:

"STD must be scum because he stopped voting for Andante after Andante claimed power"

andres if that's a misrep of what you're trying to say please feel free to rephrase

Yes this is wrong. It’s the push itself that’s Scummy. You only stopped when you didn’t have a choice. But your high confidence in the face of the mounting evidence looks bad from my perspective. And you’ve been pushing me also and again, I know my alignment. Yeah some folks haven’t figured me out yet, and that’s okay, but that doesn’t matter. That’s two bad pushes, and it makes me want to force you to flip. Your interactions with Robert have also been extremely weird, and that slot continues to amaze with their Scumminess.

[Andresvmb]

I’m down for an execution of {STD, RMH}. I think Andante has been right for a while, I think Asteria is Town, I think Pooky is Town. I’m not interested in flipping Insidious or T3. And I don’t find VFP to be Scummy in all honesty.

[Andresvmb]

you said you dont find vfp scummy. do you find them towny?

I don’t see nearly the amount of red flags that I see with STD. Like c’mon now. T3 comes into the thread with a strong push (and some decent reasoning actually), Andante begins to have doubts, and what does STD suggest for a Scum? T3. Pooky is pushing them (and you’re not going to tell me that Pooky isn’t playing like straight Town right now), and T3 decides to sheep them, and STD decides T3 is the right execution? I have yet to find a push or set of posts I liked from STD. And I’ve been re-reading carefully. The amount of Partner equity between STD and RMH is through the roof. The defending around the silly Tracker claim which Andante was so dismissive of around 1004 just screams Partner defending a buddy under pressure. I really do think Andante is right. If I had to put a bet here, I would say RMH is the Mafia Doctor.

[Andresvmb]

But okay, I have been really wrong before. I could be blinded by Town having pushed me incorrectly and pushing a claim from a player that we can all agree is Town here yes? So I need folks to scrutinize what I’m saying.

[Andresvmb]

But I mean RMH’s contributions after being mostly sidelined? Agreement on a sentiment irrelevant to the game with Salsabil, agreement with Insidious in the silliest way, some real time lurking... like how is this Town? I’m so confused.

[Andresvmb]

1453 is a bit weird. "I could have [...] let you all eat each other as you were doing anyway" is a strange line from someone who isn't supposed to know who's town and who's scum

WOW

That's a really, really good observation.

My pushes don’t have to be “nice”, and I don’t have to like shit reasoning against my slot.

You're a

pure arrogant person

, I don't think I actually want to play with you and

osuka

in any other game anymore.

I don’t understand why you would play Mafia and expect that you would just be constantly praised for everything you say, even when you’re wrong. Makes no sense to me. I’m not playing toxic, I keep asking you to reevaluate and you keep failing to do it. You’re just constantly shading me, yet I have to sit here and take it because your think skin can’t take criticism.

I think I already stated earlier I'll touch your slot on Day 2. And it makes no sense that the person I'm scumreading, I'll take

their word

to re-evaluate them who literally doing nothing town indicative which can make me re-think atp.
And yes, I'm a thick-skinned person, most probably cause I shared a pretty long time by getting bullied and for that, I refuse to tolerate any kind of misbehave with me anywhere. There is a difference between criticism and misbehave, but I don't think you're capable to understand that as you're

using.game.to.be.toxic

.

I support you.

Here and here.

This just seems like Scum that can’t find what to push anymore and doesn’t want to backtrack on calling me Scum.

[Andresvmb]

I can’t for the life of me see how both of these slots are Town. I don’t see it. It would be the Scummiest Town play I have ever come across. And I mean that.

[Andresvmb]

But there’s absolutely a universe where I’m just horribly wrong and the Scum are laughing at all this infighting going on. But really, when given multiple opportunities to do so, RMH and STD have completely failed to stop pushing me, or anyone who seems like a threat. There isn’t much Scum hunting there. It’s all just convenient arguing. Andante was honestly quite correct, and was quite sidelined. It just so happens that they’re a PR and maybe a bit convoluted in their thinking. But I think their instincts have been right.

[Andresvmb]

UNVOTE: dragons

ughh I'm having serious doubts on dragons, and I won't get pooky here, and yall won't get robert. we need to find another scum

Haschel/T3?

what do you mean i'm not fighting my wagon? i'm voting for who i think is scum and most people are still like "oh that's just pooky" ignoring the fact he has yet to do anything this entire game. people are also ignoring T3 has done nothing yet but just jump on my wagon and post nothing but STD bashing posts.

isn't it weird that both replacements haven't bothered to read the thread and instead have just decided i'm scum without much reasoning attached?

because i think pooky is scum

why do you tr pooky what specifically has been town

VOTE: T3

Why is this Town? It’s just a bunch of convenient pushes back when pushed. Is everyone who SRs STD Scum all of a sudden? I just find it so frustrating. There’s no trying to understand the logic. It’s oh, they haven’t written their cases down, and are voting me, therefore Scum. Like what?

[Andresvmb]

Anyway that’s all I have. Please bash me if you strongly disagree.

[Andresvmb]

Can you explain t3s push please

T3 came in and said that they felt you were dismissing everyone in the first 6 pages and voted you. I thought that was perceptive. The reasoning seemed okay to me, even if they’re wrong.

[Andresvmb]

Remember when I conveniently pushes crayons or lemons when they got heat cuz I dont

How is this related to my point? Whenever someone pushes you, you SR back. Lemons being voted by Andante is not what I was talking about for example. And you don’t necessarily want to get in the middle of every argument. I don’t see why this is incredibly relevant to my point.

[Andresvmb]

I have read up to page 6 and save the dragons is immediately pinging me as scum.
VOTE: Save the dragons

. See page 2 for what I mean. Pawns says that osukas self vote is NAI. STD immediately disagrees and basically flat out invalidates everyone else.

This combination is what I was talking about.

[Andresvmb]

I haven't pushed Vfp

Yo, you won’t get very far arguing that I haven’t SR literally everyone who has ever put a SR on my name. That would be absurd.