Seems like a foregone conclusion anyways.
Mini 2206 - Deja Vu: Perpetual MELO IV - END!
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I mean if something better comes up I'm all for it but as for right now we know that we're taking an L on Not_Mafia if town eventually (maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but eventually) - if he's mafia then we have one shot and one shot only to kill him and that's right this second.In post 15, Venus Fly Trap wrote:this is weird to me, like yes we might all decide that he's the best compromise wagon today or some day or whatever, but in general i feel like we can do better, esp. on day1, esp since he just abt never has any useful interactions to sort other people with.
if we just do this early on and he's town and we flip him we just let scum jettison their weakest player, and if he's scum and we flip him we just lose our strongest player
(and honestly in most universes depending on who the scumteam is that's like ... my slot or yours)
so like
If he flips town it sucks, but if we flip any town day 1 it sucks same as usual so I don't necessarily understand the point you're making here.
And if I'm the strongest town player then we're already screwed sooo..."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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You can read him while I'm shipping him off to a sweet slumber. Diamonds are made under pressure after all.In post 14, notscience wrote:Y’all leave not mafia alone until I have time to read him tyvm"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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We don't have to kill him to win. If he's scum we only have one day to get a sweet point out of him.In post 56, Kismet wrote:
We literally don't even have to kill him to win. I'm having a hard time seeing where you're going with this.In post 54, Nachomamma8 wrote:I mean if something better comes up I'm all for it but as for right now we know that we're taking an L on Not_Mafia if town eventually (maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but eventually) - if he's mafia then we have one shot and one shot only to kill him and that's right this second."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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And here I thought that what I was doing was controversial, something that would make me the center of attention.In post 37, Venus Fly Trap wrote:
trying to get an easy flip without too much discussion if possible to get to night fasterIn post 32, Kismet wrote:
i'm not trying to get to strength of conviction here, i'm more just asking "if this is a scum play, what is nacho actually trying to do w/ it" because at first glance it just seems like something you don't understand or agree withIn post 27, Venus Fly Trap wrote:but it's the first thing i saw that could potentially be worth a real vote
(again i'm not saying he is doing that per se but if he were scum i think that that's what his goal would be)
~ skitter"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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Then take my heart and let's go on a magic carpet ride together.
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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Because his team will sacrifice him the first opportunity they get. I know I would if scum!In post 60, Salsabil Faria wrote:In post 58, Nachomamma8 wrote:
We don't have to kill him to win. If he's scum we only have one day to get a sweet point out of him.In post 56, Kismet wrote:
We literally don't even have to kill him to win. I'm having a hard time seeing where you're going with this.In post 54, Nachomamma8 wrote:I mean if something better comes up I'm all for it but as for right now we know that we're taking an L on Not_Mafia if town eventually (maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but eventually) - if he's mafia then we have one shot and one shot only to kill him and that's right this second.Why we only have one day?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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This is a convoluted play if Salsa is scum here.In post 51, Salsabil Faria wrote:In post 47, Kismet wrote:
whatIn post 44, Salsabil Faria wrote:If you're an alt, then your 5 is a lie??You said on your post 5 that you never played in this setup but you're an alt, right? If so, then you may actually played in this setup before just not from this current account?
The chances of Not_Mafia being scum and us having to hit him today rise."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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In the context in which I used it, it means to send. Sending someone to sleep means killing them.In post 66, Salsabil Faria wrote:Btw, I've a question in my mind for some days, but keep forgetting about it. I remember now so will ask here....
What doesship someone(or the spelling is sheep??) mean? I googled it but couldn't understand properly."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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Lilith has my favorite response to my push, notscience my least favorite. The scum motivation that Lilith presented makes more sense than what skitter did and it feels more like she's trying to figure me out whereas skitter it's more "what Nacho is doing is bad" versus "what Nacho is doing is likely to be coming from scum". With regards to notscience I don't understand why giving Not mafia space is important to start reading him and I don't like that he didn't try to read me or my push in any way.
Vote: notscience"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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Vote: Not_Mafia
Was a fun thought while it lasted. Don't think notscience is out of scum range but do like what he's posted so far.
If Not_Mafia flips scum (which is looking more and more possible by the minute), then ^this^ is a potential partner.In post 29, SirCakez wrote:i've fallen for the not maf policy yeet too many times"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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I don't know what you're responding to here, nor do I know what you're trying to say here.In post 64, Kismet wrote:p-edit: if some of these questions aren't being asked in good faith (i.e. trying to use them to bait reactions rather than meaning them in earnest then fair enough, but otherwise I don't really see what makes his viability so temporally dependent)
What's the advantage of dealing with Not_Mafia later as opposed to now?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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My experience is that Not Mafia tends to lurk a lot, doesn't tend to scumhunt nor contribute in a significant way to the point where he basically doesn't play the game. In a game like this with an absolutely massive scumteam I'm pretty confident that someone like him is going to end up as lynchbait. Do you disagree? What are your previous experiences with him?In post 74, Venus Fly Trap wrote:- why are yoh assuming nm is gonna get flipped at all? Like you're preassuming we're for sure gonna flip him when i'm not sure that's the case
- unless he's like exactly scum and the whole scumteam decides to go and defend him, flipping nm is usually kinda a waste from an infoflip perspective cuz he usually has like no interactions
- kinda feels like you're willing to basically lose an easy point to maybe get an easy point but i feel like by actualky utilizing the day we can make a much stronger flip and actually have some more useful info going into the night instead 'meh might as well flip nm anyways and let scum do whatever'
- like you're kinda basically taking a cointoss that might have a good outcome and might not instead of actually trying to get something good and meaningful accomplished with the day
- arent u supposed to be, like, good at this?
Pedit yeah i dont know *why* he thinks that townie from salsa tho
Also salsa that was abt u
I don't know where you're getting the impression that I'm trying to rush the day. Unless someone does something significant to change my mind, Not Mafia is my death candidate. I think that it's extremely unlikely town!Not-Mafia survives the game and I think it's extremely likely scum!Not_Mafia gets sacrificed, hence he's a priority to figure out. He can have all the time in the world for someone else to fuck up or for him to step it up in any way whatsoever, but see my experience above. I don't think it's going to happen.
Salsa accused Kismet of lying about not playing in a Perpetual MyLo setup before because Kismet was playing on an alt. That's a convoluted line of thought that I don't think that she comes up with if scum there - it tends to be quite hard for baddies to fake paranoia when they have all of the answers in front of them, and it would be extraordinarily impressive if she came up with the idea to fake paranoia there."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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Do you really think that I'm angling to sacrifice myself in exchange for Not_Mafia's life...? Really?In post 75, Venus Fly Trap wrote:
I mean that's kinda what i was getting at wrt potential scum motivation hereIn post 73, Kismet wrote:hard tunnels get potentially interesting in this kind of setup because scum are inclined to do them, win that day, and just peace out of the game the next day after the flip makes them look horrible
i think we should be insisting that people take a fairly breadth-first approach to the game.
~ i really should be signing, everything has been me thus far
Skitter"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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My post directed to notscience was asking him to talk to me about you - I think you're projecting town pretty strongly at this point and I respect notscience a lot as a player so I expect him to share my read on you.In post 89, Salsabil Faria wrote:In post 79, Nachomamma8 wrote:Notsci please @ me when you're also townreading salsaWait, are you townreading me??
And when donotsciencestart to townread me???"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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As I've said before, I'm more than happy to move elsewhere if something better comes up.In post 92, Infinity 324 wrote:
Hmm I'm not sure I agree with this. If we can't read NM (notsci thinks he kinda can but less assume that for a sec) then they're always rand scum, and if our reads are any good then our best scumread should be >rand scum. The reason we can policy lim NM in a normal setup is that we can spend elims to narrow down the PoE, where we don't have that luxury here. Also, it's gonna be hard to get the votes to lim them unless they're town. So I'll only vote NM if the wagon on them is very towny.In post 62, Nachomamma8 wrote:Because his team will sacrifice him the first opportunity they get. I know I would if scum!
I might have been a little more dramatic than necessary with the presentation of things yesterday which is why everyone apparently thinks the only think I will ever care about is Not_Mafia's day 1 death, but my point is that eliminating the weak link from the mafia team because mafia can sacrifice them would be a significant win. The person I see mafia as most likely to sacrifice is Not Mafia. As a result, he deserves extra scrutiny - I don't plan on letting him get past today unless he actually does something that looks town."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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mena claimed a guilty on you two pages agoIn post 215, Not_Mafia wrote:Anyway I’m not reading 8 pages. What’s happened so far?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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This seems like empty questioning to me.In post 109, Leafeon and Glaceon wrote:hey vft
if you had to vote someone right now and that would decide the elim for today, who would you vote?
~leaf
Could you really not connect that skitter was scumreading me after skitter talked about their scumread on me?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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This is pedantic - what would you rather me call it instead?In post 120, Kismet wrote:
I do think it's worth noting that 10 is the only post you'd made by the time noddy posted anything he did this game and I think to call what you'd done by that point a "push" is a bit much.In post 118, Nachomamma8 wrote:Lilith has my favorite response to my push, notscience my least favorite. The scum motivation that Lilith presented makes more sense than what skitter did and it feels more like she's trying to figure me out whereas skitter it's more "what Nacho is doing is bad" versus "what Nacho is doing is likely to be coming from scum". With regards to notscience I don't understand why giving Not mafia space is important to start reading him and I don't like that he didn't try to read me or my push in any way.
Vote: notscience
I did something, I thought notscience would have an opinion on it.
Skitter's stance is logical enough, but I don't see where it translates to a scumread on me. I can see her asking me questions, but I can't see her read evolving when she does so. Jury's still out on that one.In post 121, Infinity 324 wrote:Do you not think skitter was trying to figure you out? She was, at least, questioning you and hadn't made up her mind yet.
This post (specifically, the notsci part) feels less nuanced than it should be for some unknown definition of should
Expecting nuance from a read based on one post is a bit silly.
The # of times that I post in a game have to do with a wide variety of factors. This doesn't have anything to do with my alignment most of the time.In post 126, notscience wrote:Also nacho posting this much is prob +scum anyways
You drawn scum since you’ve been back yet?
I have drawn scum since I've been back. I got ripped away from it by life situations, but there was at least one glorious day of being scum and having fun."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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every time i say that it's because i get a townread elsewhereIn post 222, Leafeon and Glaceon wrote:
also he made one post at this pointIn post 208, Nachomamma8 wrote:If Not_Mafia flips scum (which is looking more and more possible by the minute)
how
~leaf
it's gonna be a meme"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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good
Kismet
Salsabil Faria
Infinity 324
good?
notscience
bad
SirCakez
Leafeon and Glaceon (beeboy, Mistyx hydra)
Not_Mafia
Brave Heart Lion
Disaster Cartel (Menalque, Ydrasse hydra)
Venus Fly Trap (skitter30, lilith2013 hydra)
The Bulge"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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Read this post a couple of times and am still not sure what you're saying here. Can you elaborate?In post 220, Leafeon and Glaceon wrote:
it was for drawing associations because they mentioned thinking you/nm could be partnersIn post 218, Nachomamma8 wrote:
This seems like empty questioning to me.In post 109, Leafeon and Glaceon wrote:hey vft
if you had to vote someone right now and that would decide the elim for today, who would you vote?
~leaf
Could you really not connect that skitter was scumreading me after skitter talked about their scumread on me?
~leaf"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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Vote: SirCakez
I don't believe his scumread on his disaster and I don't believe his scumread on me. I'll get into it later when I have more time."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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I'm also done talking about the NM play. It's patently obvious to me that I won't be convincing a majority to go along with it, and I don't think that me getting more and more pissed as I attempt to explain myself on the same points over the next 20 pages is the best thing for thread health."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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SirCakez:
You don't get to play with nice Nacho after you drove me to wanting to gouge my eyeballs out with a McFlurry spoon in Popcorn Mafia. I will not be putting myself through that hell again, and if you want to play the same game that you played with us last time, I won't be only person having a bad time.In post 294, SirCakez wrote:Nacho reacted pretty much how I'd expect him to as scum here
town!Nacho would reach out before immediately diving for an attack I think
I'm hoping the oddball path that you took in order to arrive at scumreading me is faked so that I'm not again the unlucky recipient of a dumb Cakez tunnel, but either way, I want you to explain how your read on me evolved because what has made it into thread makes zero sense. You've talked about my play being weird or not understanding posts:
In post 241, SirCakez wrote:I think Nacho's play has been bizarre but I don't think this is in the realm of possiblity.In post 241, SirCakez wrote:this post doesn't make any sense to me
But there's nothing in your ISO that takes the leap from "Nacho is playing weird" to "Nacho is playing like scum". I'm not surprised that you'd try to keep the animosity directed towards me alive - there's enough anti-me sentiment floating around where I'm sure it feels like I can currently be mislynched whereas the longer you keep me alive the greater the chance you'd have to shoot me instead.In post 271, SirCakez wrote:The reads are similar but I can't reconcile Nacho's play so far this game with mine. Frankly I'm very surprised that our reads are so similar (I didn't notice this during my catchup) because when I read Nacho's posts they feel totally alien to me.
If you're town, though. What are you doing? If you also think that I am scum because you disagree with me on a game theory point, cool, join the rest. But just tell me that's why you're scumreading me; the way that the read unfolded instead looks like that you knew that there was a Nacho mislynch push going on that you wanted to join but put the read before the reasons.
So we have the same top townreads.In post 263, SirCakez wrote:
we completely disagree about SRs and who to elim thoughIn post 262, notscience wrote:Similar views on the game state usually indicate similar POV aka similar alignment
I am townreading notscience whereas you are not. You are scumreading him for being too passive. I scumread him initially for not being proactive in engaging me on something. The only other disagreement you could be referencing is centering around NM, which is still disagreeing with me on the theory point like everyone else. I get that you don't want to policy lynch him but that doesn't translate to a townread on him.
This is the same shit you do to me in pretty much every iteration where I am town and you are town which unfortunately means you might be town here! Again! You start out by scumreading me and fit reasons to the read afterwards. Those reasons turn out to be incorrect because - surprise surprise - you never gave a shit about them in the first place - but instead of taking the time to reassess you just keep chugging full speed ahead. If you are town. For the love of god. Stop.
In other news, let's look at that Disaster scumread, which is in and of itself a disaster!
Strong sentiment. The reasons he gives for the read is the propaganda piece found here. He accuses Mena of being scum because he said that he doesn't want to have a conversation about policying NM again after he went through JK9++ where he talked about being frustrated because no one was listening to him about policying NM.In post 246, SirCakez wrote:Done reading. Disaster Cartel is AWFUL and I do not want to move my vote. Nacho is also just ??????? leaning towards scum. All of the hydras are not good actually.
CAKEZ - why is this scummy? how is it unusual to be frustrated to have a conversation that you just got done having in another game?
Next, Cakez calls Mena scum because him saying that he has one tenative townread means that "he has no development of reads", then strikes doubly hard at the notsci townread. I hate how Cakez is using Mena townreading notsci and me townreading notsci as ammo to attack us with, as if a townread on him is completely unacceptable but the only thing that he's brought up on notsci so far is that he's "too passive". I don't understand why Mena saying that he has one tenative townread on page 4 means that there's no development of reads, so
CAKEZ - why is mena announcing that he has one tenative townread in notsci proof for him having no development in his reads?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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SirCakez:
You don't get to play with nice Nacho after you drove me to wanting to gouge my eyeballs out with a McFlurry spoon in Popcorn Mafia. I will not be putting myself through that hell again, and if you want to play the same game that you played with us last time, I won't be only person having a bad time.In post 294, SirCakez wrote:Nacho reacted pretty much how I'd expect him to as scum here
town!Nacho would reach out before immediately diving for an attack I think
I'm hoping the oddball path that you took in order to arrive at scumreading me is faked so that I'm not again the unlucky recipient of a dumb Cakez tunnel, but either way, I want you to explain how your read on me evolved because what has made it into thread makes zero sense. You've talked about my play being weird or not understanding posts:
In post 241, SirCakez wrote:I think Nacho's play has been bizarre but I don't think this is in the realm of possiblity.In post 241, SirCakez wrote:this post doesn't make any sense to me
But there's nothing in your ISO that takes the leap from "Nacho is playing weird" to "Nacho is playing like scum". I'm not surprised that you'd try to keep the animosity directed towards me alive - there's enough anti-me sentiment floating around where I'm sure it feels like I can currently be mislynched whereas the longer you keep me alive the greater the chance you'd have to shoot me instead.In post 271, SirCakez wrote:The reads are similar but I can't reconcile Nacho's play so far this game with mine. Frankly I'm very surprised that our reads are so similar (I didn't notice this during my catchup) because when I read Nacho's posts they feel totally alien to me.
If you're town, though. What are you doing? If you also think that I am scum because you disagree with me on a game theory point, cool, join the rest. But just tell me that's why you're scumreading me; the way that the read unfolded instead looks like that you knew that there was a Nacho mislynch push going on that you wanted to join but put the read before the reasons.
So we have the same top townreads.In post 263, SirCakez wrote:
we completely disagree about SRs and who to elim thoughIn post 262, notscience wrote:Similar views on the game state usually indicate similar POV aka similar alignment
I am townreading notscience whereas you are not. You are scumreading him for being too passive. I scumread him initially for not being proactive in engaging me on something. The only other disagreement you could be referencing is centering around NM, which is still disagreeing with me on the theory point like everyone else. I get that you don't want to policy lynch him but that doesn't translate to a townread on him.
This is the same shit you do to me in pretty much every iteration where I am town and you are town which unfortunately means you might be town here! Again! You start out by scumreading me and fit reasons to the read afterwards. Those reasons turn out to be incorrect because - surprise surprise - you never gave a shit about them in the first place - but instead of taking the time to reassess you just keep chugging full speed ahead. If you are town. For the love of god. Stop.
In other news, let's look at that Disaster scumread, which is in and of itself a disaster!
Strong sentiment. The reasons he gives for the read is the propaganda piece found here. He accuses Mena of being scum because he said that he doesn't want to have a conversation about policying NM again after he went through JK9++ where he talked about being frustrated because no one was listening to him about policying NM.In post 246, SirCakez wrote:Done reading. Disaster Cartel is AWFUL and I do not want to move my vote. Nacho is also just ??????? leaning towards scum. All of the hydras are not good actually.
CAKEZ - why is this scummy? how is it unusual to be frustrated to have a conversation that you just got done having in another game?
Next, Cakez calls Mena scum because him saying that he has one tenative townread means that "he has no development of reads", then strikes doubly hard at the notsci townread. I hate how Cakez is using Mena townreading notsci and me townreading notsci as ammo to attack us with, as if a townread on him is completely unacceptable but the only thing that he's brought up on notsci so far is that he's "too passive". I don't understand why Mena saying that he has one tenative townread on page 4 means that there's no development of reads, so
CAKEZ - why is mena announcing that he has one tenative townread in notsci proof for him having no development in his reads?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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How does asking Venus who they'd kill help draw associatives after both heads expressed scumreads on me? Who are you helping draw associatives?In post 228, Leafeon and Glaceon wrote:uhhh
idk exactly how to put it so not really?
it was in response to 101 if that helps
I just don't understand the point of your question - it's as if you asked me who I would policy if I could policy anyone that I wanted immediately after I made the post saying that I wanted to policy NM.
I didn't feel strongly about the scumread when I poked you about it initially - it was more a worry I had when driving to work then something I expected to become a schoolyard fight. I liked the sourness of the response to me. I'm still waiting for the high-level scumhunting, though.In post 231, notscience wrote:Dancing is no fun if you unvote me before I wake up.
This is a pretty ballsy post if this hydra is scum. My feeling is that Misty is less likely to draw attention to beeboy's absence if they are scum together.In post 235, Leafeon and Glaceon wrote:
so i've been told yesIn post 233, Infinity 324 wrote:
Isn't beeboy the one who just doesn't post as scum?In post 221, Leafeon and Glaceon wrote:also i am glad to see that my partner did not play after telling me he would
~leaf
~leaf
Tiered, yes. In order, no.In post 244, Disaster Cartel wrote:Are these tiered or not?
I don't love this.In post 249, Disaster Cartel wrote:And like yeh, no shit I haven’t tried reading u yet, hence why i was surprised to see skitt professing a TR on a v unknown quality in a game where there’s like, reasonable incentive for scum to TR each other
Kismet has put more into the game than anyone else - calling them an "unknown quantity" is silly. If you had specific things from kismet that bothered you, I'd feel differently. Are you a player that's unable to make a read without having meta on someone?
Solid observations - these are my thoughts exactly without the anger.In post 253, Leafeon and Glaceon wrote:don't think his reasoning is very thorough and seems to be fairly tailored towards not sticking out in thread state, plus some of his reactions (specifically @ DC) felt kinda overblown"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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I don't get why you're still stuck on this to the extent that you are, but since my view on you is steadily changing from "stubborn" to "scummy", I'll play ball.In post 284, Venus Fly Trap wrote:I don’t get what the value in spending an elim on a scum!NM is and I’m struggling to understand why anyone thinks this is the best play to make.
1) You and Skitter both keep pretending like all I am interested in today is policying Not Mafia or bust. This is patently false. In my entrance, I used stronger rhetoric then I would normally because we were in early RVS stage, and the stronger the rhetoric, the more likely you are to get some responses. Note how I told notscience that diamonds were formed under pressure, implying that I thought that me pushing NM might get an interesting response from him. Note my 59, which implied to skitter that I was being intentionally controversial. Peep me asking Infinity to address my push specifically or peep me analyzing how people responded to my push in order to inform my next push to notscience. I do think there is merit in townies thinking about the extra layer of strategy that the safehouse mechanic gives to the scumteam, and how it lends itself to weak scum players doing their best to lurk through one mislynch so they can be sacrificed. Do I think that this means that speedlynching NM is the most optimal move we can make? No. And if you were looking at my play as a whole instead of looking for things to hold against me, you might see that.
2) There are 5 players on the scumteam - let's name them and order them by most skilled scum player to the least: NachoMamma, NachoDaddy, NachoSister, NachoBrother, NachoDaughter. If the town plays perfectly, then they can stomp the three worst scumplayers and no matter how well NachoMamma and NachoDaddy play, town wins. Now, if the scumteam is given the chance to safehouse NachoDaughter, then town has to kill NachoDaddy to get their three points. If the scumteam safehouses NachoDaughter and NachoBrother then scumteam has to take down NachoMamma. My point was simply that I thought that NotMafia was hands down the worst scum player in this plist and so that any team that includes him would much rather sacrifice him, hence he's a great place to focus initially. I understand that it is an odd line of thought, but this is an odd setup.
Who is arguing that we need to elim NM over people we are actually scumreading? I'm not. And I haven't been for a while.like I said, reeeeeeally struggling to see why spending an elim on NM is more valuable than spending an elim on someone who we actually scumread.In post 54, Nachomamma8 wrote:I mean if something better comes up I'm all for it
My approach to this game is such that everyone is guilty until proven innocent. I am also more skeptical about townblocking players in this game simply because finding a small town core is so incredibly powerful. As a result, people can do things that I like but this doesn't necessarily mean they make their way out of the basement.nacho trajectory on us: “lilith had good reaction to my push” —> we’re in his scumpool. ???? progression
Your sparknotes are also inaccurate. I liked your reaction to the push, but I also was going back and forth with skitter on her reaction to my push. 223 is also a thing that exists, which means I had to process a push I liked and a push I didn't.
I also don't understand why this is such a sticking point for you - is it really that crazy to like one thing that a person did and not townread them as a result...?
You may not know me well, but if my goal was to get someone killed, ESPECIALLY someone such as the mayoral candidate of suicide town himself, then I would not attempt to policy lynch them from my first post. Such an action is absolutely bananas, and while I am an insane person, I'm not insane to the point of being stupid as your argument seems to imply.In post 284, Venus Fly Trap wrote:re: opinion on Nacho, like I said I don’t understand how someone comes to the conclusion that NM is the most valuable elim we can make D1. I don’t buy that this is a genuine town thought process from nacho. I think it’s more likely that nacho is trying to sacrifice a buddy to an elim so that he gets to direct an NK than scum!nacho trying to miselim the LHF town!NM so that he can sacrifice someone on his team who is presumably more valuable to his team than NM is to town. why ever go after such LHF like that when you have to sacrifice a partner for it? ergo, scumbuddies."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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I don't understand what you're asking here. I as scum would sacrifice NM over other people because NM has the lowest floor of anyone here. If another scumpartner was struggling more or a strong townplayer got put within hammer range that might be a different story but otherwise I'd default to sacrificing NM.In post 292, notscience wrote:Sorry nacho, i was more interested in why that path of argument was chosen over others? Like trying to get into how I would decide those kills as scum that was one of my first thoughts.
Nacho and Cakez can dance
You're not shading anyone else but me, which is sort of par for the course. I'm interested in hearing what agenda that you thought that I had in trying to policy lynch NM - there are a lot of people who think my actions are weird or bad but no one has really put forward a plausible scum agenda for doing so.In post 301, The Bulge wrote:in a game with as much scum as this, I'd expect to see a whole lot of ""Agenda"" right at the forefront of discussion, which is exactly what this NM talk feels like
idrk who else I'm vaguely shading there apart from nacho, I was drunk all yesterday evening and only lazily skimmed along, but I'll catch up later and get that figured out.
You'd think that if he was town there'd be a lot of scum trying to drive us towards him.In post 303, Venus Fly Trap wrote:if he's town, he's probably going to be flipbait, sure
but that also means that 'in a game with an absolutely massive scumteam' and he's town there's goign to be a lot of scum trying to drive us towards him, no? like why are you not just scum trying to get that easy flip ...
also in this setup it's not a sure thing that he needs to get flipped anyways as either alignmenet so i'm not sure why you're presenting this as inevitable. also i don't think he always gets misflipped as town
But instead, when I pushed for his death, there was Mena and no one else. Which seems to increase chances of there being scum in {me, Not_Mafia}, no?
I'm not scum trying to get the easy flip because I tried to policy lynch him from page one. I've been around long enough to realize that policy lynching doesn't typically work.
Why would I be inclined to hard tunnel as scum if I didn't plan on escaping afterwards? What advantage does it offer me?In post 303, Venus Fly Trap wrote: eh not so much that you were gonna escape per se so much as the hard-tunneling part"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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I did read her entrance and compared it to her before I started advocating her shining light towniness. I think she's night and day here compared to there; she's inquisitive, she's a bit scattered without having an agenda attached, she's hilariously pure. I expected that notsci would be able to pick up on the same things that I am but apparently he's decided to enroll in the Cabd School of Reading Nacho (tm) and as a result is completely failing in reading me instead.In post 330, Kismet wrote:https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=85994 some salsa scum meta (do not read on sepia)
possibly not the only reason i linked that game just now you tell me
don't feel like i'd be able to meta her w/ any kind of confidence; and she played pretty well in this game only kinda just getting inched out of a win at the very end
i'm a little worried about the giant pass nacho is willing to give and i liked noddy's reaction to nacho's pushing it his way
One of the big weaknesses that new scum players tend to have (and Salsa certainly had in the game you linked) is a difficulty in hiding their agenda. You'll notice a lot of her questions in that game were shallow (aka acting people to elaborate on reasons they didn't explain), she was careful was she expressed suspicion or explained her votes. She was also a heck of a lot more defensive in that game versus here (when she thought I suspected her, she called me paranoid and brushed it off vs there where she seemed to get indignant that someone was "shading her"). Here she's just carefree, more inquisitive, more likely to do things that don't have a clear scum agenda. Instead of just asking people to elaborate on random suspicions, seems like she's genuinely trying to understand the stuff going around her.
And while of course I'll be reanalyzing this read constantly, I'd be very very surprised to see this slot flip scum at this point."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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These responses make sense, thanks for the clarification.
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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You're not responding to my point at all.In post 358, SirCakez wrote:That's because of how long my catchup was. I read like 10 pages of posts in one go, so it wasn't like "hmm this is scummy" "hmm this is weird" it was like a whole bunch of posts that added up at once.
My point is just is that you kept pointing out things that were weird and not scummy. And you called them weird not scummy. Three weird posts doesn't normally equal a scumread so when did your read change from "what Nacho is doing is weird" to "what Nacho is doing is scummy"?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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I made that exact point in a post directed at skitter so. I agree with it.In post 407, Disaster Cartel wrote:I would also love to hear thoughts on my point that I think scum are bus!disincentivised unless in a lot of trouble, and the fact that there seems to be no appetite for NM is therefore +scum
-Mena"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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How am I obsessing over an NM push? I brought it up. I explained reasons why. Why are my reasons for pushing him incorrect?In post 358, SirCakez wrote:My main hangup is I don't understand your obsession with elimming NM and I don't feel it like town!you at all.
I don't really see a path to elimming you right now anyways, but I am genuinely baffled by your early posts this game in a way that I wasn't in Popcorn.
Like it drives me crazy when you go "ah this sucks" without even making a token effort to address my reasons for doing something - you jumped down my throat for Norfolk defense early last game when we weren't defending Norfolk and instead were pointing out that the people attacking him early for dumb reasons.
Also, why do you think that you can differentiate between the way town me pushes something and the way scum me pushes something when you can't find town me in the first place?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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I don't understand the argument that you're making here.In post 400, Infinity 324 wrote:
NM is a perfect example of why it's not, they will never look towny but you will always have doubts about whether they are scumIn post 397, Disaster Cartel wrote:idgi how are those two things not the same? like the people who are most towny looking are surely also the ones you have the most doubts about being scum?
Nacho looks relatively towny from an Objective StandpointTM but I don't have that many doubts about him being scum
You shouldn't be 100% confident someone is flipping scum before you flip them or you have ego issues. It is a more valuable skill to fight off a lynch on you then it is to lurk so much that people can't confidently write a case on you."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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Should have kept reading.In post 410, Infinity 324 wrote:Yeah I do. Basically if someone has a strong scumgame they can still be >rand scum on play whereas NM can't unless you're notsci I guess. This may just be something we fundamentally disagree on though
Yes, this is a fundamental disagreement. I think people also value their scumreads more highly than they should - case in point, you scumreading me here."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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I find that Cakez might take this approach as either alignment because, as I've talked about in thread several times now, he's done it before.In post 412, Infinity 324 wrote:
Do you think this is scum-indicative (for cakez)?In post 409, Nachomamma8 wrote:My point is just is that you kept pointing out things that were weird and not scummy. And you called them weird not scummy. Three weird posts doesn't normally equal a scumread so when did your read change from "what Nacho is doing is weird" to "what Nacho is doing is scummy"?
I think the more alignment indicative piece will be his responses when he decides to do something other than just straight up blow me off."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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Notscience brought up this point. Your response was that you didn't know my reads because you were skimming. That's not good enough for me.In post 358, SirCakez wrote:Somebody else already made this point."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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I think it was a rolleyes because I was kind of a jerk about it.In post 364, Kismet wrote:
is this a rolleyes because you think you got a nonanswer here (the answer made sense to me)In post 355, Disaster Cartel wrote:(1) :rolleyes:
or is it a rolleyes because you think you should be higher?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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Fair point.In post 360, SirCakez wrote:This would have come up whether or not Misty addressed it"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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Muffin also brings the fangs out when he's frustrated as town, or directs vitriol at people when they clearly aren't going to listen to them any other way.In post 379, Kismet wrote:This is a little concerning because it's the sort of thing I see from scum trying to show their fangs early to get someone to back off or put them off balance, and not a thing town do to try to figure out what the person attacking them actually is
I had a very similar interaction w/ muffin in a game a long time ago and he turned out to be scum for it.
that's not to say that that everyone plays the same here, but i don't get what you're trying to do here if town, especially since popcorn eventually ended in y'all mostly backing off each other.
If popcorn was the only time that Cakez clashed then it would be a different story, but it's not."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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The push Cakez made with the most scum intent was the one on me, which I talked about before. Whenever a townie is getting a lot of heat from those present in the thread and then a newcomer rolls around and goes "A-HA! You are scummy!" with reasons that are questionable at best, you can bet your left eye that I'm going to hold them to the fire from it.In post 380, Infinity 324 wrote:@nacho I'm having a hard time seeing which parts of your cakez read don't boil down to "I don't get cakez", or how you not getting cakez means he's scum in this context"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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Then I guess I don't know what you're talking about!In post 434, Kismet wrote:
this seems unrelated to what i'm talking about. i'm aware he gets mean for other reasons.In post 432, Nachomamma8 wrote:Muffin also brings the fangs out when he's frustrated as town, or directs vitriol at people when they clearly aren't going to listen to them any other way."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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What are your current reads?In post 433, Kismet wrote:VOTE: DC
i am, at this point, sufficiently tweaked out by DC having a post count that is the size of mine with basically nothing worth a shit other than "notscience is posting so i guess he's town" and a whole bunch of n_m theorytalk in it"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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I haven't talked about beeboy's actual entrance but I hate it. It's possible I move there after work today if Cakez makes me feel something with his responses."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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If you don't see how my approach to Cakez will help me read him then I'm not really sure what to tell you other than if I do something you don't understand it does not make me a better scum candidate.In post 438, Kismet wrote:nacho i'm trying to believe but you're making it very hard
cakez came at you and you just aggressively postured at him in a way that doesn't make me confident you're trying to figure his alignment out."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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This is a bad reason to townread a good scum player. Moods, and thus engagement, can change from day to day much less game to game.In post 440, Infinity 324 wrote:I'll find quotes for why I townread them, but I doubt scum!skitt would have this much happiness/drive to play mafia here."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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How else would you like me to approach you here?In post 446, Kismet wrote:this would work a lot better if you just said what you mean to say instead of expressing incredulity at every turn
In this case, you accused me of posturing. To me, posturing is taking a position without backing it up and I don't think I'm doing that with Cakez but there's not really a way to refute that other then urging you to read my previous posts.
You're saying I'm not trying to figure his alignment out. Great. I am trying to figure his alignment out - how am I supposed to show that to you? Are the reasons for him being scum unreasonable? Does my push on him fail to outline a scum agenda?
You're saying some people react with fangs to throw people off pushing them. Cool. How would you like me to defend that? You don't know me and I don't know you - I'm not inclined to explain history with a particular player and I'm not inclined to explain my emotional state or why I approach things the way I do because, again, you don't know me and I don't know you. If you said "ah, your anger here is unreasonable because Cakez did nothing wrong" then it'd be a different story, but it's not."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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It's not Bell.In post 459, notscience wrote:If it’s unwnd and not bell it’s not as strong a townreads for me
Also I don’t really understand why bussing is disincentivized in this setup? But I just love to bus I think. But without a doubt scum flips every phase and we are going to have associatives to work on"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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Bork, my goal with regards to Cakez is to get a confident read on him early and quickly so that I can get a confident read on him down the line. I am bullying him because being rude to Cakez seems to be the quickest way to get him to actually address things with me - whenever I reach out or play softball he tends to glaze over what I'm saying to him.
Every time we've played TvT he's scumread and tunneled me without exception, which progressively got more and more annoying until popcorn broke me. You didn't see the fallout of that in Warehouse 13 even though I was technically in that game because ffery did the entirety of the heavy medium and light lifting."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.- Nachomamma8
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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What are your reads?In post 472, notscience wrote:Mena if you touch a hair on Borks head I will run you into the ground tia"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.- Nachomamma8
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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I'm not sure there's a good approach to this other than just letting it play out - my treatment of Cakez here is an anomaly in that it's not a way that I've approached someone as town in the past and hope never to approach someone as town in the future. It is something I use often as scum.
The only difference between this and when I use it as scum is the target - I generally leverage an approach like this when I'm trying to discredit someone who can read we well or I'm trying to mislynch someone who should never ever be mislynched."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.- Nachomamma8
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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Part of what was antagonizing me was that it felt you were expecting something meta wise but I had no idea who you were so no idea what you expected/what experience you had with me/etc."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.- Nachomamma8
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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In post 479, Venus Fly Trap wrote:Nacho your tone is like just super super super off
You two are bad tonereaders.In post 480, Infinity 324 wrote:This feels like something scum would say to look like frustrated town, the tone is just...not quite there.
Wrt Infinity am not surprised because he just seems to be stuck in tunnel mode.
Wrt skitter I'm still waiting for your scumread to evolve past its premise."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.- Nachomamma8
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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