Mini 2206 - Deja Vu: Perpetual MELO IV - END!

[The Bulge]

Hi!

I've never played this setup but it seems like E-2 is the new E-1 here -- opportunities for scum to quickhammer and sac that person at night giving no chance at an elim on that member means that we should tread lightly in that regard.

only if we're voting town! so let's avoid doing any of that, yea?

VOTE: notscience

[The Bulge]

what if not_mafia is a jester?

[The Bulge]

in a game with as much scum as this, I'd expect to see a whole lot of ""Agenda"" right at the forefront of discussion, which is exactly what this NM talk feels like

idrk who else I'm vaguely shading there apart from nacho, I was drunk all yesterday evening and only lazily skimmed along, but I'll catch up later and get that figured out.

[The Bulge]

in a game with as much scum as this, I'd expect to see a whole lot of ""Agenda"" right at the forefront of discussion, which is exactly what this NM talk feels like

idrk who else I'm vaguely shading there apart from nacho, I was drunk all yesterday evening and only lazily skimmed along, but I'll catch up later and get that figured out.

You're not shading anyone else but me, which is sort of par for the course. I'm interested in hearing what agenda that you thought that I had in trying to policy lynch NM - there are a lot of people who think my actions are weird or bad but no one has really put forward a plausible scum agenda for doing so.

I'd put mena and vft under that umbrella too ftr, having read up.

I'm not so much talking about an agenda of "yeet N_M first" as I am one of steering the early discussion in an arguably futile direction, and in the process shooting down our momentum before we even take off. I like lilith's theory about scum willingly giving up their own biggest liability in return for a N1 kill, though nm's "I'll never go out first it's just the way it goes" bit rings true to me, and aside from that I've got nothing on the slot atm.

[The Bulge]

basically I'm reading thru a lens of "half of these people only want to post about shit that isn't going to benefit us" and being wary of the fact that a solid chunk of this game's discussion is going to be, by nature of the setup, either a heap of useless garbage, or actively harmful to the town.

pedit notty- I'm getting to that

do you want me to finish catching up and compiling all my notes into the big effort post I've been thinking about all day, or are you gonna want a couple spitballs rn? (I would prefer the former, but answer truthfully)


pedit skitter- specifically that umbrella is "people who I was vaguely shading apart from nacho"

[The Bulge]

I would also love to hear thoughts on my point that I think scum are bus!disincentivised unless in a lot of trouble, and the fact that there seems to be no appetite for NM is therefore +scum

-Mena

where's this?

on the surface, I disagree. with a role distribution like this, bussing is inevitable. if the scumteam only pushes town all game, it can become a very easy game of sorting bloccs.

[The Bulge]

:}

[The Bulge]

My vote is staying on leafy/glacey until I see like, anything from beeboy but I’ll bear in mind what you’re saying

-Mena

is there any depth to this besides "beeboy doing the thing he does as scum"?

[The Bulge]

hey wow I was just reading that part and thinking exactly the same thing

[The Bulge]

that whole exchange feels like a good example of the "pointless garbage" point i mentioned before. I have a hard time believing town in infinity's shoes would care at all about that line of questioning, and then to have that exchange flip her read from scum to town is wild to me

[The Bulge]

that whole exchange feels like a good example of the "pointless garbage" point i mentioned before. I have a hard time believing town in infinity's shoes would care at all about that line of questioning, and then to have that exchange flip her read from scum to town is wild to me

this was @ 639, lemme keep reading

[The Bulge]

oh hi bulge

what did you think about beeboy posting 523 right after that?

- lilith

i think the exchange between inf and leaf ended very unnaturally. then beeboy sort of takes his turn after, tying it back with a mutual TR on inf. all of his other posts in that burst are completely pointless filler

[The Bulge]

@beeboy I know you just said you don't like readslists but scum are gonna figure out who I SR anyway, and I think this is important

{bulge, DC, NM, mom, nacho, cakez}

this is ridiculously partnery as well

[The Bulge]

it reads to me like you wanted to post a readslist, but didn't want to risk shaking the house of cards you and the two of them had just built.

[The Bulge]

like, as if you stopped yourself from posting a readslist without that preamble because you realized it might look weird juxtaposed with your exchange with the hydra+beeboy's theoryposting.

pedit - I mean the house of cards that is your theatre show

[The Bulge]

that may be

[The Bulge]

stale quotes from a forgotten tab of yesternight...

In my heart of hearts I want to believe that Infinity, VFT and I have all found each other early; Infinity is probably the closest thing I have to a proper townread atm, and I generally like how skitter is approaching the nacho read overall.

tell me about your infinity read? or link if you've gone in depth recently?

Also we can read NM based on who's pushing and defending them. Were more likely to get earlier scumflips in this setup that most

So far it's looking pretty good for NM

can you elaborate on what you were talking about here? why/how was it looking good for him?

Mena we've talked abt this like 6 billion times already but i really kinda fundementally disagree with u abt ur approach to not mafia

But, i do think the frustration you're exhibiting on this page given the context is townie for you

~ skitter

what's the context?

tbh I'm kind of thinking scum!nacho is getting his buddy NM out of the way so that he can direct a nightkill onto a townie of his choice rather than only being able to kill a miselim-able townie during the day.

- lilith

I think Nacho's play has been bizarre but I don't think this is in the realm of possiblity.

why not?

[The Bulge]

I can't recall ever townreading cakez before this game and that's worrying me a bit

[The Bulge]

kismet is blindlingly town.

[The Bulge]

^ @leaf

but I'll take a look because I don't remember what you're referring to

[The Bulge]

oh.

I don't super care, disagree I guess, I still need him to explain his strong and persistent townread on you

[The Bulge]

wait what are you asking? at first I thought you were asking for my opinion on kismet, then I thought you were just asking me if his liking 511 swayed me at all, now I'm not sure

[The Bulge]

hi mom. are you looking for a voice to genuinely catch you up and brainstorm with, or are you doing something else?

[The Bulge]

My vote is staying on leafy/glacey until I see like, anything from beeboy but I’ll bear in mind what you’re saying

-Mena

is there any depth to this besides "beeboy doing the thing he does as scum"?

beeboy doing the thing he does as scum in a game w higher rates to roll it probably means the slot is just scum :>

- ydra

neither of you have commented on that slot at all since beeboy started posting? I know mena hasn't posted a lot since then, but he has posted since beeboy was active. ydra's response here is weird with their vote still on L&G and with zero actual commentary.

[The Bulge]

Ya he was pissed at me in that jk++ cuz we were hydra'd and i wouldnt let hjm flip nm and nm was actually scum and he's getting annoyed at me again and idk why he would if he were scum here

@bulge this was the context
~ skits

thanks! I have some thoughts on that in my notes for later

[The Bulge]

later

:^}

[The Bulge]

woops missed a couple posts there somehow? pedits are failing me

[The Bulge]

Bulge do you have other reasons to scum read infinity outside the exchange she had with me?

~Glaceon

yes

hi mom. are you looking for a voice to genuinely catch you up and brainstorm with, or are you doing something else?

Por que no los dos?

I don't think it's a good way of catching up or a good mindset to have when 45% of the other players are scum.

[The Bulge]

both fair points!

[The Bulge]

y'all are goons. I do far less then this as scum.

~Glaceon

I actually agree that this is more than Ive seen scum-beeboy do

But posting volume is something that can be guilted from a hydra buddy so meh

mhm we should just yeet anyone who tries to posit that beeboy is town simply because he's posting

I think The Bulge is town

if there's anything that bothers me about bulge is that he's very obviously been reading but he's chosen to only engage about one thing in particular and that thing is an unflipped association (infinity/l&g) which i'm worried the grounds aren't particularly solid on.

I realize he has Qs for me about infinity which i should responsibly reexamine my read while answering, but that will probably come tonight.

looking forward to it!

Dont really get anything from the bulge really

if i had a dime......

In my limited experience with bulge they're super obvtown as town and they're not that this game

huh??

[The Bulge]

nacho i think the convo for later for us is vft because that is likely to be where we have the most difference of opinion so far. i need to reread skitter's posts from today before i commit to that read as it was like 7:30am when i did initially, but i was very much a fan and her content is not all just centered around you.

I look forward to this. I know that I owe a full explanation on my VFT read; currently feels like I'm the only person that doesn't think they are the towniest towns who ever towned which is causing me to dig my heels in a bit more than I'd like to but I'd like to get that read sorted out quick so I can determine whether I'm being dumb or not.

who is townbinning VFT?

[The Bulge]

cool cool, what are your thought on those players? @nacho

[The Bulge]

a simple town/scum for each is fine

[The Bulge]

Thanks!

Mena is always concerned with how people read him and I think it might actually be towny

if he's always like that, where are you drawing the townread from exactly? what is AI about this instance in particular?

[The Bulge]

I'm not so much talking about an agenda of "yeet N_M first" as I am one of steering the early discussion in an arguably futile direction, and in the process shooting down our momentum before we even take off. I like lilith's theory about scum willingly giving up their own biggest liability in return for a N1 kill, though nm's "I'll never go out first it's just the way it goes" bit rings true to me, and aside from that I've got nothing on the slot atm.

I don't think that my early game was steering the discussion in a futile direction; I'd argue that my early game set a pretty serious tone early which was a good building block for some of the other stuff that happened today.

I don't disagree but I don't think this matters to what I'm saying. we can talk about intentions/expectations, and we can talk about what ended up going down. two different conversations.

[The Bulge]

huh??

Imo you were bleedingly obvious town in that normal I was spectating where you were loyal JK, other people didn't seem to agree though.

PEdit: specifically, he's always like that as town, I don't have the sample size as scum to draw a conclusion there.

that's fair and I agree lol but I don't think I have ever in my life been anywhere close to what I would call obvtown in the early phases of a game.

[The Bulge]

notty! these pedits are killing me lmao I have never had this many issues with shit not showing up

I'll be online one more time tonight.

[The Bulge]

ok I'm just not gonna look at the last few pages or any new posts this time

these are partially based on random notes I took mainly of the first 10 pages, sorry for any disproportionate amounts of Old Shit but I mean the game's only been on 3 days and 35 pages is really not that much

VFT

has mainly been catching my attention in their relationship with nacho. my earliest impression of this was with 15, where I felt skitter was extrapolating a lot of discussion points out of nacho from one very brief post. this is arguably the post that really kicks the not_mafia discussion off in the direction it persisted (nacho's and kismet's earlier comments lack the same depth) so it's stuck with me in all my reading, especially with my theory in mind of scum taking advantage of their unique opportunity in this setup to take a near-majority control of the discussion. I had a gut feeling at first that this could be partner-indicative, but lilith taking a completely different approach in her assessment of the slot in 101 makes me think otherwise. Nacho had a good point in 211, the idea that he'd dedicate the entirety of his scumgame to yeeting not_mafia and then dip is ridiculous, and the response bottom of 303 doesn't make sense to me? Kismet's post was specifically about scum winning an all-in 1v1 and then self-yeeting to avoid any fallout. Why reach out (in 75) over such a superficial connection if skitter's only concern was about tunneling? nothing else stands out to me on its own, save a couple posts where I thought "huh weird", but nothing I think is ultimately alignment indicative, and overall their play isn't overtly townie but I think I feel alright about this slot.

Salsabil

is obviously a tricky slot to sort, since all that's really there is the weird leap in logic wrt kismet having played the setup before. I can't put a finger on whether this is a case of massively overblown paranoia or of grasping at straws (probably both if town tbh), but I think it would be extra weird for scum.

Kismet

has been notably opposed to the "nm agenda" since the start, and has been otherwise concerned with the overall health of the game on several occassions. his thoughts on the game flow freely and naturally and do not sound the least bit contrived, and he presents them in an organized but casual manner.

Infinity

seems to be universally townread and I don't recall a reason given aside from meta, which I don't recall even being elaborated upon. nothing she's done has impressed me so if anyone is townreading her off the strength of her content in this game I would like to see some specific quotes and explanations pls, I feel like people are acting like it should just be obvious. One problem I have with infinity is how she assigns her reads. a lot of them read to me like she's already decided where on her list a slot would be best placed, and is justifying that after the fact. for example she calls nacho scummy in 99, but says she's a sucker for how he asked her directly about her read. shortly after, she says "someone scumpost", implying no scumreads. this example is early enough that on its own strength, I'd probably ignore it. but compare to posts like 229, 400, 532, 618. it's subtle, but I think 480 can help illustrate what Im saying even though I don't think it's necessarily a good example. it's like, how are you deciding the difference between what's Scum acting Townie, and what's Town being Scummy. obviously this is just a part of scumhunting, but it feels to me like infinity's process misses a step. most of the reasons she gives are "town/scum often do this" or "this person does this as town/scum", but it feels like she gets to decide when her own theory/meta statements actually apply. There's nothing tying the conclusions to the concessions madein those posts I linked, or explaining why those reasons didn't ultimately factor into the final read. she's given a couple excuses, mostly early on, as to why her reads might be off this game, and on top of all that, a few odd posts stand out to me on their own. 97 is weird because if she agrees with what kismet is saying, how is the comment about site meta at all relevant? 230 is also pointless, not to mention categorically false ("idk how scum think" is such a bizarre thing to say!!!). 454 is insane and has to be fake, what do you mean you don't believe skitter's mood would have changed since "just a few days ago"????? 645 looks like TMI on vft, how can you say "it doesn't look like that was correct"? yea not the scummiest slot in the whole world but it's super weird everyone is townbinning her, and she has been one of the slots giving me the most consistent pings.

Large / Grand

The presentation of 109 is awkward; the wording is contrived as hell, and that it's not addressed to any specific head feels intentionally vague. at its core it feels like a question purely for scum info, like preparation for some kind of posturing. Mistyx's willingness to draw attention to beeboy's absence early on is easily WIFOM. she slips up in 221 pretty hard though, why would beeboy specify to his hydra partner that he'd actually play this game except after receiving a red PM? the slot's first move doesn't really come til 253, which is weak and feels opportunistic. 593 and anything in between shows no evolution of the cakez read at all, only arbitrarily stating it's growing stronger, but there is no effort to figure out the slot or engage meaningfully, they're just saying words. The associatives I'm seeing between this slot and infinity are strengthened by beeboy's 523, which talks about those 2 Infinity posts as if they directly pertain to the game rather than the general theory posts they are. beeboy's content is obviously all filler, blatantly avoiding any meaningful contact with the game, and mistyx's attitude towards him doesn't feel like town frustration at all.

notscience

hasn't made a huge splash in the game so far, but I would probably be suspicious if he was putting himself front and centre trying to keep a hold on the reins of the game. most of what he's done so far is reach out to familiar players, and present theories and takes as non-sequiturs, all par for the course. I'm not a big fan of his nacho case. I think town notty would be more likely to want to assume a more assertive role in the town, but that could be affected by playerlist. I think with fewer players who know him, notty would feel more comfortable and free to break from his usual posting style. most of what he's done so far is give reads and push suspicions. I don't like the way he throws his vote around. I would expect town notty to be a little more meek in a way. he hasn't done much apart from replying to direct questions, and asking his own, but he only follows up in the moment and rarely comes back to past conversations. however, I do appreciate the consistency with which he maintains his lines of questioning ever after a lilt in discussion. The wall on nacho is pretty convincing. notty hasn't done anything this game except throw down votes and vibe with his friends. If he were scum I think he'd see an opportunity in this setup to take more control of the game's trajectory. I don't think we need to worry about this slot, but I have my eye on him.

Disaster Cartel

is a huge concern for me because mena's early posts are riddled with weakass logic and fake emotion, and then he just dipped from the game. 151 acts like it's relevant to this game, when that entire huff about NM is, imo, nothing but mena taking advantage of recency bias to try to push an NM elim thru. He's managed to drag past AtE from completed games into this one to justify this early push (this becomes especially apparent by 161, though the whole push is dripping with this weird misplaced aggressive energy), and somehow you lot are letting it slide? 167 is a mind-bogglingly atrocious strategy, and absolute shit logic in a 5v7. I'm sure Mena is a better player than that. I think it was a perspective slip. overall, mena's posting feels slimey (for example, check the weakass shade thrown at kismet in 198), and ydra feels like she's had her hand held (probably by both town and scum tbh) up to the point of comfort she's at now. Need more from mena but I don't like basically anything this slot has proposed.

Nacho

doesn't get a blurb here just yet, because I need to just get this fucking wall out, and nacho has a big intimidating iso and I feel like his more recent content of the last few pages deserves some attention. I also think nacho's role in this game is central enough that anyone making a serious solve attempt rn needs to look at

why

OR

why not

he is a part of that solve. obviously this is more fruitful with more flips. for now I'll say I'm feeling extremely wary of nacho. strong lean scum.

Momrangal

reads to me like she is just utterly and completely lost and has been since her subbing in. I don't think the idea that a scumteam wouldn't let one of their own be so openly useless holds water in this setup. normally a partner might swoop in for some help in a situation like this, but I think if mom is scum then her partners don't want to touch the slot with a ten foot pole. needs more content.

SirCakez

has given me good vibes this game, which like never happens. 245 is the only post I have in my notes for him, and only because I felt it had a certain townie energy/eagerness to it. I'm gonna be careful with this slot but for now I'm willing to let him slide.

Not_Mafia

I mean, at this point I at least hope nobody still thinks this is even close to a viable option today. If Menalque reappears I'd like his thoughts, actually.

TO DO:
-read nacho v vft
-prompt for more hand-holding re:infinity UTR
-look closer at cakez's body of work, maybe compare to past games where I misread him


remind me to stop promising effort like that lol

[The Bulge]

//current solve that I'll have in mind next time I do a read-thru:
LG, DC, Infinity, Nacho, Mom roughly in order

[The Bulge]

I'll catch up on the last few pages when I have the time

[The Bulge]

UNVOTE:

whew

[The Bulge]

lmao

[The Bulge]

notty read your bit again

[The Bulge]

playing d&d rn and I can't focus on two things at once, but yea I can be here for quick chats

[The Bulge]

He doesnt even take a stance on you lmao

i'm charitably reading not having anything bad to say about me as an endorsement

I already made it very clear that kismet is strongtown.

[The Bulge]

NM how I envy your playstyle

[The Bulge]

fuck this tbh

half of you know for a fact im town anyway. and I think for the rest of you you should be able to tell from gamestate that I'm town here. because, again, half the plist knows my alignment already and they FUCKING WISH they could actually push me on anything from that wall but I've managed to coast thus far because the scumteam knows my thoughts come from a town perspective. anyway this game has caused me nothing but immense stress and anxiety the last 72+ hours so peace for now

[The Bulge]

notty as giddy as I was that you fell for that blurb, obviously the joke didn't land. please read it again slower. I'll colour code it for you if you need.

[The Bulge]

anyone who has a problem with my levels of engagement moving forward can suck my toe!!!!!!!!

[The Bulge]

hmm don't expect much from me tonight but I could vote nancho

[The Bulge]

sorry I've been ghosting, I know there's a bunch of questions I've ignored. I was burnt out after that wall and felt overwhelmed every time I went to finish catching up/parse through the aftermath and just haven't had the energy to tackle it since then.

if I don't find a burst of motivation to do this before night hits, I apologize, but I'll commit to at least being caught up and present by d2. a couple flips should be enough to sort of ground me and give me a chance to start off on a good foot.

[The Bulge]

VOTE: nacho

hammer range?

[The Bulge]

welcome back yall!

[The Bulge]

atp I should be prioritizing trying to bleed town a little over getting my own bearings sorted, that's fair

[The Bulge]

forcing me to produce content today: a good idea! pro town! maybe the little push I needed! nice!

flipping me today: terrible idea. no info. assholes

[The Bulge]

I've never fallen this far behind and not been uberstressed about it 24/7. if you're seeing changes it's cuz im making em

[The Bulge]

bulge could u do me a solid and vote for N_M

what's the count at? what's the case for nm today?

[The Bulge]

not gonna vote without reading

[The Bulge]

also im town

[The Bulge]

so

[The Bulge]

i think it should be pretty obvious im flying solo this game.

[The Bulge]

more just my own flight path so to speak. I physically and mentally checked out of the game for like over a week. I voted nacho because notty asked and I think the deadline was coming up, and he was on the null end of my scumpile. I haven't done shit to advance an agenda. Idek how many people I've dodged questions from but I'm sure there's a statistical likelihood of there being a partner or two in the mix. I also have zero knowledge of the current gamestate, i know you can't really know that with how little I've posted, but idk i feel like im coming off very aloof and detached from the game as a whole, and I just don't see how my behaviour could come from a scum slot.

[The Bulge]

Bulge

You and me

Thursday’s night

Be there or be square

but my D&D got canceled tonight and moved to thursday!!

[The Bulge]

anyway im off for some mario party, back later. we'll find a time notty.

[The Bulge]

but idk i feel like im coming off very aloof and detached from the game as a whole, and I just don't see how my behaviour could come from a scum slot.

don't really feel like this has to be AI
if it is then it's indicative you're an alignment you don't like playing as vs the other

but i mean there's more to it then that
if the gamestate is in a place where it behooves you to do nothing, that can be a very viable scum strat. not saying it makes you scum, but i just don't see where you're coming from when you say it makes you town

I mean if I had to rank, then D1 town is easily my least favourite alignment. but that's not really what I'm talking about. I don't think I would say "fuck this game" and then disappear if I had partners in the wings. I don't think I would be posting right now without first reading all the pages I've missed as scum (or at least posting in the scum pt for some direction). I would never give peta such an easy setup for that hammer as scum. hell I don't think I would ever write that wall as scum, especially with notty pressuring me like that.

wrt lurking as a viable scumstrat, totally agree. completely disengaging for over a week and falling half a game behind, however, is not.

[The Bulge]

noddy do you have any history of bulge acting like this before? because this is just not jibing w/ me on any experience i've ever had w/ him (which admittedly isn't that much)

no

This is new territory for me too lmao

My first instinct was him writing me off so easy was weird normally he plays it super close to the vest and thats something both of us have done as scum (accidentally let on too strong a townread on the other)

And in general his levels of engagement are on how much a puzzle there is to solve/he likes being in the murky PoE area anyways to get reads. Him being in the ideal area to get reads and not trying to really engage is concerning. Like in Illicit he was outside of his comfort zone and the game was harder.

But like I know he got lost in tenet

BUT IF HES HERE RN

why does this gamestate say you are town

explain im five pls ty

remember when I had a whole joke paragraph in place of a read for your slot? and not a single person in the game picked that up?



gamestate says I'm town because the gamestate for a long time said scum doesn't know what the fuck to do with my slot. because when half the town is scum and on of the townies drops off the face off the earth, scummos are concerned about keeping up the facade and maintaining a monopoly on discussion, and have no room to be off looking for lost sheep.

[The Bulge]

But yeah like

id expect him to sink his teeth into SOMETHING by now

Maybe hes banking on me succumbing to pressure wrt him again but like... meh

I was looking at nacho's wall and he had some interesting points WRT mena

ninja-
yeah, so like this is like after he got cleared, which is weird, because he is in no way cleared here and should be able to sink his teeth in more

BULGE IM TALKIN SHIT AND STAYING UP TO EAT LO MEIN WHERE ARE YOU

my taking a step back here was only game-related to the extent of the anxiety it was causing me. nothing to do with gamestate, only with my mental state.

[The Bulge]

so if you wanna drunk post with me lemme know good night all

wed is a good day to drink for me

haha let's do this!

[The Bulge]

I honestly don't get why people are so confident NM is scum here and not bulge, has bulge done anything towny? It's making me more confident in my bulge vote if anything

trying to make it out like I'm the counterwagon to NM lmao?

Can you give a current readslist too? It's hard for me to believe that bulge isn't in your PoE with so many towny people in the game

gross

[The Bulge]

theres another thought. Infinity scum was my only against-the-grain read. why do I case that as scum? where was my backup? or followup? what's the agenda there? or anywhere in my play really

[The Bulge]

trying to make it out like I'm the counterwagon to NM lmao?

*like NM is the counterwagon to me

[The Bulge]

town needs to give me a chance to actually catch up and ground myself, though. there is no deadline rush. only scum wants to powerlim me before I have a chance to do anything useful. especially if the reads in my wall were right!

[The Bulge]

im doing posts about things I read right before posting -> reading -> posts about shit I hadnt read, thanks

[The Bulge]

This is a bit authoritarian of me but to incentivize a slowdown and show my displeasure with the current focus:

VOTE: The Bulge

This is E-2, AKA effective E-1

what do you mean incentivize a slowdown?

your posts before this one annoyed me, but now this vote makes them seem incredibly disingenuous.

[The Bulge]

oh oh oh should i slam some apple vodka shots and call this a party???

[The Bulge]

Bulge you never explained your joke to me

for one the whole paragraph took me about a minute to write, lol. I was just pulling words out of my ass, aiming for a sort of horoscope-y feel. some of it might have been true of your play but I put a total of zero thought into what I was actually saying there.

[The Bulge]

notscience hasn't made a huge splash in the game so far, but

I would probably be suspicious if he was putting himself front and centre trying to keep a hold on the reins of the game.

most of what he's done so far is reach out to familiar players, and present theories and takes as non-sequiturs, all par for the course.

I'm not a big fan of his nacho case.

I think town notty would be more likely to want to assume a more assertive role in the town, but that could be affected by playerlist.

I think with fewer players who know him, notty would feel more comfortable and free to break from his usual posting style.

most of what he's done so far is give reads and push suspicions.

I don't like the way he throws his vote around.

I would expect town notty to be a little more meek in a way.

he hasn't done much apart from replying to direct questions, and asking his own, but he only follows up in the moment and rarely comes back to past conversations.

however, I do appreciate the consistency with which he maintains his lines of questioning ever after a lilt in discussion.

The wall on nacho is pretty convincing.

notty hasn't done anything this game except throw down votes and vibe with his friends.

If he were scum I think he'd see an opportunity in this setup to take more control of the game's trajectory.

I don't think we need to worry about this slot, but I have my eye on him.

hope this helps some

pedit lmao. alright im going to the freezer

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let me see

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hoo boy that list is telling me my old reads are stale

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infinity is still scum but everyone else on that wagon except leafyslot I had as town.

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if you're scum you've already beaten me lol. that may change the further we both make it. cakez feel town but it's a weak read and the fact that he almost always pings me as scum but doesn't here is seriously something I am considering a lot. and I was on the fence re:VFT but ended up leaning townie with a lot of early weird stuff. salsa's a weak read and I've barely looked at prism.

Pedit- what?

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I mean I didn't look at it, I know what my reads were. but nothing much has changed for me since then because I haven't caught up and haven't been engaging? so Idk what you're implying with that q

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Bulge, i'm just gonna ask - are you actually planning on catching up at some point? Do u have some sense for when that might happen?
Like i'm seeinf a lot of acknowledgement of lurking and you explaining why that doesnt make you scum, but i'm not really sure what you're planning on doing abt it exactly

yea, it'll happen. not promising any times anymore because I know how that works out for me lol.

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I'm about to take my third shot btw where is notty

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I'm also curious

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Bulge, i'm just gonna ask - are you actually planning on catching up at some point? Do u have some sense for when that might happen?
Like i'm seeinf a lot of acknowledgement of lurking and you explaining why that doesnt make you scum, but i'm not really sure what you're planning on doing abt it exactly

yea, it'll happen. not promising any times anymore because I know how that works out for me lol.

to give you a little bit more of an answer, I'll probably work backwards. start with events of day 2-now, then catch up from when I dipped the thread to the nacho lim, then eventually reread the rest if I'm alive that long.

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I wish I had some good tequila rn mmmmmm

pedit I resent that @infinity

pedit what?

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looking town doesn't sound like bulge.

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mena was weirdly prickly when he was dodging in. it didn't seem prompted by anything in-game. idk my only experience is whatever game he was deleuzional and he feels like a different person here. ydra is hard to read.

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I get what you're saying. call it setup-related, I guess. more of a responsibility to not be unreadable here imo, which is usually where my playstyle drifts. plus I felt bad for dipping and would feel worse if it ended in another point for Red team.

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I’m just toying with the thought that scum was white knighting nacho.

I think scum probably took all kinds of different stances around nacho between the 5 of them


don't do that, it makes me paranoid about the "give town something to solve" mantra you were on about a while back

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I haven't looked at anything from before I checked in last night. I don't know what to make of how he's treated my slot so far, but it irked me. just not on a gameplay level lol, idk what it means for his alignment. lemme do a quick iso skim actyally

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meta townreads are bad in a chummy playerlist if that's what you're doing!!!

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also forgot i was supposed to be isoing woops

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is against the grain town-indicative in a 5v7?? idk

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am I putting too much weight on the atypical alignment distribution this setup has? i feel like that's played a huge part in how overwhelmed I got lol. but also why I really want to stick it out and actually solve some shit because it seems ridiculously fun if I can get my stride going

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i feel like that's played a huge part in how overwhelmed I got lol

like it felt like I was playing a whole new Game Mode, jafeel? but without any context. nothing to ground myself. so many principles of the game that i feel just go right out the window in a setup like this that makes it hard to really assert anything. idkidkidk

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Mf I just asked if you thought all scum were defending nacho and you went paranoid on md

hm that's true







hmmmmmmmmMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM


against the grain is actually scum-indicative here???????? if scum wants to avoid creating a bloc?

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am I making sense?

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only if it feels at all forced, of course.

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I mean an accidental scumbloc. if the town seems oddly co-operative in such an unbalanced setup, surely that will turn heads?

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I don't have any new thoughts on infinity aside from what I've already posted. but her position as my only non-town-read on 2 separate wagons that I know almost for a fact have at least one or two scum on them strengthens that a lot, yea.

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I meant like uh. tmi sort of?

town doesn't know anyone else's alignment. so when you land on "this looks towny on the surface, but reads like scum trying to act town", I think it's natural to conclude with some sort of 'null' read, or else talk through why you make the decision you do.

as scum, you don't need to solve. you need reads that look good. so when it comes to that, you don't want an ugly fencey loose end, you want a pretty conclusion. and since all scum reasoning for their reads is contrived anyway, it might not strike you as 'the more natural thing to do' to really talk through the process there in contrast with anywhere else.

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I have to bounce soon but I'm glad we're doing this

also I don't drink super often so you've set me up for a fun little rest of the evening : ]

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is s2 any good I never watched lol

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right haha I never did that iverson iso. I'll do that ctrlf tho rq

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puri puri prisoner and [obviously] mumen rider are my favs

I need to read more of the manga, all I've read is the first couple issues from lurking the aisles in Indigo lmaooo

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infinity doesn't look like she ever really sorted you properly for how much she seems to rely on you as a townread. was there anything else you're seeing?

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is online manga my next pandemic era? only time will tell

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yea like it's hard to tell from iso but my impression is that it is gamestate-accomodating.

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anyway my gf is done her stuff now so she is stealing me away from you. good talk. hopeful taht my posts will flow easier from here on out, whether or not I've fully caught up.

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is that in reaction to the last couple pages or?

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Notscience way up for things like the Infinity posts/wall comment to you, you down because you're focused on hitting tonal markers and until the very end it is unlikely you were focused on or reading anything other than towntelling/reacting to notscience.

this is literally what my purpose has been tonight, yes. i didnt read shit. i want notty and the rest of you to know i am town but mostly him. do you think you're exposing me or something here?

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town plays good and scum plays bad, got it. pce

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wasnt feeling it at all yesterday, will try again today

iverson fuck off.

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VOTE: infinity

Scum often don't know how confident to be, especially when they replace in, town generally have examples in mind when they're suspicious of a group. Peta didn't want to point to examples because the townies were all transparently town and he didn't want to sow paranoia on a buddy. If you want I can argue this point with you until I can convince you I believe it

is sure to clarify how strongly she believes this point. but this is the last thing she had said about the townbloc at this point:

To be 100% honest nothing anyone has said has convinced me that {me, notsci, bork, VFT} isn't a townbloc, and I'm sort of just waiting for mom/bulge to post because those are the only slots I don't feel like I've sorted yet. People have said that nacho could be town, which is possible I guess, but nacho is mostly on board with the bloc as well? Maybe I'll re-evaluate VFT but yeah that's where I'm at with the game rn

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1752 also bad

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this is the last thing she had said about the townbloc at this point

* or any of its members

in fact here's a more recent opinion even

Salsa's flipping actually feels very genuine to me

She's my strongest TR outside the bloc

notably this one comes after 1470

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Scum are going all out to get 2-0 and put us on the back foot for the rest of the game, there’s at least 1, probably 2 scum already on me here, if I were scum I would 100% have been the sacrifice

There were a bunch of townies defending you

???

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i'm reading the whole game and trying not to have tunnel vision here

but like

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the whole game starting from d2, that is. just meant I'm not isoing infinity atm if that's what it looks like lol

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VOTE: infinity

Scum often don't know how confident to be, especially when they replace in, town generally have examples in mind when they're suspicious of a group. Peta didn't want to point to examples because the townies were all transparently town and he didn't want to sow paranoia on a buddy. If you want I can argue this point with you until I can convince you I believe it

is sure to clarify how strongly she believes this point. but this is the last thing she had said about the townbloc at this point:

To be 100% honest nothing anyone has said has convinced me that {me, notsci, bork, VFT} isn't a townbloc, and I'm sort of just waiting for mom/bulge to post because those are the only slots I don't feel like I've sorted yet. People have said that nacho could be town, which is possible I guess, but nacho is mostly on board with the bloc as well? Maybe I'll re-evaluate VFT but yeah that's where I'm at with the game rn

?? I said the bloc was all town, peta said the bloc had scum

you claimed to believe that peta didn't want to sow paranoia within the townbloc in order to protect his buddy. who is the buddy?

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I'm demonstrating that you still, as far as your posting shows, believe in an all-town townbloc

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why wouldn't he want to sow paranoia in an all-town group?

pedit- because that belief directly contradicts with your belief that peta didn't want to name names within the bloc.

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w

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you can have it! @fferry

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you can have it! @fferry

ahhhhh this was supposed to be jeering but she deleted the moof post and now it looks sincere boooooooooo

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I'm pretty confident it would've been ineffective and peta probably knew that

Or he wasn't engaged enough and as town he probably wouldn't have been as confident saying there's scum in that bloc

but he did lol

you're tripping over yourself so hard you had my dim ass confused for a second. so from what I can gather you're suddenly now arguing, in order to cover up an inconsistency, that peta wouldn't want to say that there's scum in the bloc, because that wouldn't look very town of him to people familiar with his play.

but he literally did that.

the issue at hand is why you think he didn't name any names.

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and I don't buy the first line either, or the response to the line about townies defending NM for that matter

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gotta run soon, trying to read along at the same time rn but it's hard for me when the thread is active

I bet iverson's gonna have some strong feelings about how I'm choosing to allot my time

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I am hung up on the contradiction, as should any townie in the game of mafia. you haven't justified it or cleared up any inconsistencies, and any attempt you've made to do that so far has come across to me as a backpedal, or stretching of any potentially ambiguous wording in your posts you can find.

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That's an absurd characterization, I literally gave reasoning in the original post for why peta wouldn't want to name specific townies as scum, which would've been the most intuitive thing to ask about if town cause that was like, the heart of your issue. But you treated it as if it wasn't there

(Also contradictions aren't scummy lmao but that's a separate thing)

"contradictions aren't scummy" is hugely reductive. i mean sure if you want to ignore all the context and nuance of what I'm actually pointing out. don't try to make this out to be a game theory discussion where you've already given yourself the crutch that you "disagree with everyone on like 90% of mafia theory".

or the response to the line about townies defending NM for that matter

Can you elaborate on this? Why do you disagree and why does that make me scum

Scum are going all out to get 2-0 and put us on the back foot for the rest of the game, there’s at least 1, probably 2 scum already on me here, if I were scum I would 100% have been the sacrifice

There were a bunch of townies defending you

???

That's why NM wasn't the sacrifice

I don't believe that is what you meant. your wording in the original quoted post does not at all imply speculation. this is a good example of the backpedalling/stretching of ambiguous wording I talked about last night

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I'm not sure this is going to be super productive but I'm going to try anyway: this is my interpretation of what bulge is getting hung up on:

Peta didn't want to point to examples because the townies were all transparently town and he didn't want to sow paranoia on a buddy

(that I also believe is in the townbloc)

. If you want I can argue this point with you until I can convince you I believe it

Does this track w/ everyone so far?

yes because the logic doesn't make any sense without that implication? how does naming names within the bloc cast shade on someone outside of it?

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that belief directly contradicts with your belief that peta didn't want to name names within the bloc.

I interpret this as "believing that the bloc is all town and that peta didn't want to name individuals from it is inherently a contradiction"

I'm not sure it mattered to bulge what I implied about the bloc to begin with

wrong. there you go again reducing my argument to a simple application of game theory. it isn't "inherently" a contradiction, especially not the way you're twisting it and removing context. it's a contradiction because of how you first presented it. I don't believe anything you have since retroactively claimed to have been inferring.

nobody makes 1768 without knowledge of a scum in the bloc.

absolutely

nobody makes this post without at least that hunch.

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I don't like how this hasn't at any point felt like you are actually trying to help me understand what you meant, infinity. it all feels entirely like coverup. also not a fan of shit like this

It's pretty clear that there's many points of possible benefit of the doubt you could be giving me and are not

or calling my takes "absurd", trying to discredit me. it feels reactive and defensive. the quoted line here has big caught-for-the-wrong-reasons frustration vibes.

I don't think you want your points and thought process to be fully laid out on display and explored and have all its holes exposed. the stretching and backpedalling and retroactive justification is spinning it all into a more convoluted web. if you were town being incorrectly pushed for a take you feel has been misinterpreted, I would expect some kind of summary, or alternate explanation, or a dumbed down version at least. instead I get stuff like you quoting the same post I have a problem with twice in a row as if that should be convincing me of anything new. you're looking for evidence that you didn't let your perspective slip instead of just explaining what you meant.

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back to catching up later, don't have much a head for reading atm

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Peta didn't want to point to examples because the townies were all transparently town and he didn't want to sow paranoia on a buddy.

my interpretation of this line is "peta didn't want to shake things up too much because the actual townies in the bloc were all transparently so, and he didn't want to risk blowing his partner's deep cover"

it doesn't make sense to say this at all if infinity doesn't think there is a partner in that bloc, regardless of any alternate theories she has given since then for why peta might have done that.

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what does it imply about the townblock in your opinion?

I've been running on the assumption that infinity is generally considered to be a part of the bloc. if that's the case then that's obviously where I think the partner is.

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yea

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VFT if not

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or no one! i dont have an opinion of my own on the townbloc itself as a whole, i havent read enough. but im pretty sure infinity is scum.

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not to imply any reverse-associatives or anything. but you and notty are strong town reads and I'm not aware of anyone else who belongs in that group

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im down for that

and no it does not

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i don't think it matters who

i

think the scum in the bloc is. infinity presented very strongly that she believed the bloc to be all town. she then presented even stronger that she believed peta was protecting a buddy within the bloc. when pressed about this inconsistency, she flailed.

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I'm not sure where else to go with this particular point. What other opinions have evolved since you made your earlier reads post?

nothing much yet that I havent already said (which i know isnt much apart from infinity's slot)

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I don't believe that is what you meant. your wording in the original quoted post does not at all imply speculation. this is a good example of the backpedalling/stretching of ambiguous wording I talked about last night

Ok but what do you think I actually meant and why is that scummy

doesn't make a difference here what I think you meant. it's scummy to lie and give false reasoning.

Scum often don't know how confident to be, especially when they replace in, town generally have examples in mind when they're suspicious of a group. Peta didn't want to point to examples because the townies were all transparently town and he didn't want to sow paranoia on a

(possible)

buddy. If you want I can argue this point with you until I can convince you I believe it

Are you happy now? I should've added a word in the original post, that's literally all it was

this is just more of the same damage-control-type responses I've been so far unsatisfied with, so no.

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part of me feels like 2459 was an attempt to recover from a misstep made in 2458

if infinity is town, it really shouldn't at all imply that vft is scum due to anything related to 1768

just don't know if that was a defensive move or if it was just a clarification =/

fair take, and I appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt. it was a clarification. after I posted "VFT if not", I wanted to convey more clearly "if there is indeed scum in the bloc, and not infinity, then I'd think VFT" so it wouldnt be interpreted as me saying there has to be scum in the bloc. like I said I have no holistic opinion of the townbloc or its dynamics, I don't think I've even read up to or around when it formed.

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I don't think you want your points and thought process to be fully laid out on display and explored and have all its holes exposed. the stretching and backpedalling and retroactive justification is spinning it all into a more convoluted web. if you were town being incorrectly pushed for a take you feel has been misinterpreted, I would expect some kind of summary, or alternate explanation, or a dumbed down version at least. instead I get stuff like you quoting the same post I have a problem with twice in a row as if that should be convincing me of anything new. you're looking for evidence that you didn't let your perspective slip instead of just explaining what you meant.

It's because I thought it was pretty clear what I meant to begin with, to be fair I didn't quite understand the problem you had with my posting and I thought the explanation was more obvious than it actually was. I still don't think a townie would make as big a deal out of this as you are, because my point still holds if there's no scum in the townbloc. My wording just wrongly implied that I believe such a scum exists.

See this just tells me you think we're at an "agree to disagree" impasse, so why haven't you shifted the discussion to that? I said I don't like how you worded your earlier posts and felt it betrayed your scum alignment. You said your words didn't accurately reflect your thoughts. I don't believe that and no amount of backpedalling will convince me to. so I'm taking your original statements at face value. yet you continue to try and justify them to me? you're flailing.

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doesn't make a difference here what I think you meant. it's scummy to lie and give false reasoning.

*deep breath*

What was the original problem you had with my post?

What was the scum motivation to lie about that post?

quite simply, it looks like tmi. is tmi that blatant something scum will slip up on? maybe not. on it's own it confuses me, but it's fishy. so I express that. it's not fishy enough on it's own to equate to a full scumread in a vacuum. what makes you definitively scum to me, though, is that I believe you lied to me in your explanation.

the scum motivation to lie about it is so they won't get caught doing tmi I suppose?

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(putting aside the backpedaling stuff).

(I won't be doing this)

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this is just more of the same damage-control-type responses I've been so far unsatisfied with, so no.

To me the fact that the presence of a word could've solved your entire problem probably means you should've taken a more inquisitive approach rather than "wow look at this obvscum"

do you think I'm confbiased somehow?

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Peta didn't want to point to examples because the townies were all transparently town and he didn't want to sow paranoia on a buddy.

my interpretation of this line is "peta didn't want to shake things up too much because the actual townies in the bloc were all transparently so, and he didn't want to risk blowing his partner's deep cover"

it doesn't make sense to say this at all if infinity doesn't think there is a partner in that bloc, regardless of any alternate theories she has given since then for why peta might have done that.

If me, bork, VFT, and notsci are all transparently town, it makes sense why peta didn't want to point to a specific scum in that group because...we're all transparently town.

so vaguely shading the entire group of Extremely Obvious Townies without further developing that thought is the more town-looking move? please

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Is there any way you think I should be approaching this differently as town?

I still feel very strongly that you're looking for reasons you can give that make me look wrong, instead of focusing on ensuring I properly understand your stance. it's reactive, not proactive. your words suggest I am missing something that you're saying, but your actions seem defensive, like I'm striking a nerve. town wouldn't feel so nervous here, because there's no other outside pressure from any other slot atm, and my word alone doesn't carry much weight in this game.

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the only pressure is if I'm onto something and you don't want others to catch on as well and for your wagon to become viable. hence too your discrediting language against me.

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sorry I realized I was very late for a D&D session

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lol bye

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wasnt lurking i just finished doing the dishes

yes im town

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i thought iverson scumclaimed with that hammer? à la petapan