Mini 2206 - Deja Vu: Perpetual MELO IV - END!

[SirCakez]

VOTE: venus fly trap
Cursed hydra

[SirCakez]

i've fallen for the not maf policy yeet too many times

[SirCakez]

scumlords!

[SirCakez]

I see a bunch of pages here but it is very late so I will see y'all tomorrow

[SirCakez]

policying NM is my idea of a good time

-Mena

why not a good book ^.^

no

VOTE: NM

-Mena

Eh, I don't like this vote.

UNVOTE: Venus Fly Trap

VOTE: Disaster Cartel

I will sheep this in lack of something better
still reading

VOTE: disaster cartel

[SirCakez]

VOTE: venus fly trap
Cursed hydra

(◕‸ ◕✿) why cursed?!

because you always snow me...
and skitter has been having a tough run lately

tbh I'm kind of thinking scum!nacho is getting his buddy NM out of the way so that he can direct a nightkill onto a townie of his choice rather than only being able to kill a miselim-able townie during the day.

- lilith

I think Nacho's play has been bizarre but I don't think this is in the realm of possiblity.

I like the vote on L&G and am going to go there too; mostly just cause I wanna be somewhere, iso is pretty vapid, and the phrasing of 109 just irks me vs a more reasonable "who are you scumreading atm"

I agree with this as well.

Lilith has my favorite response to my push, notscience my least favorite. The scum motivation that Lilith presented makes more sense than what skitter did and it feels more like she's trying to figure me out whereas skitter it's more "what Nacho is doing is bad" versus "what Nacho is doing is likely to be coming from scum". With regards to notscience I don't understand why giving Not mafia space is important to start reading him and I don't like that he didn't try to read me or my push in any way.

Vote: notscience

this post doesn't make any sense to me

[SirCakez]

I like Kismet, Salsa and Infinity. Not crazy about notsci, L+G, or Venus Fly Trap. I can have lots of scumreads in this game

I stg if we have to have another conversation about policy limming and why it’s worth it I will put my face through my desk given the context

-Mena

this seems so fake

Or we could let the game breathe and if we really can’t come up with a better option and need a deadline scramble then we decide to go there

I’m not saying we speed lim I’m saying that the only reason policy lims don’t work is bc people get attached to their pet SRs which most of the time aren’t any better than rand, and we should just play it safe and agree that we’re limming NM unless someone basically claims scum

-Mena

YIKES

Vote: Not_Mafia

Was a fun thought while it lasted. Don't think notscience is out of scum range but do like what he's posted so far.

i've fallen for the not maf policy yeet too many times

If Not_Mafia flips scum (which is looking more and more possible by the minute), then ^this^ is a potential partner.

sure dude

also i am glad to see that my partner did not play after telling me he would

~leaf

Isn't beeboy the one who just doesn't post as scum?

this is true

[SirCakez]

Done reading. Disaster Cartel is AWFUL and I do not want to move my vote. Nacho is also just ??????? leaning towards scum. All of the hydras are not good actually.

[SirCakez]

I don't like your approach to this game. It feels too passive.

[SirCakez]

VOTE: sircakez

i didn't like the catchup

i don't think his reasoning is very thorough and seems to be fairly tailored towards not sticking out in thread state, plus some of his reactions (specifically @ DC) felt kinda overblown

~leaf

what does this even mean

[SirCakez]

I stg if we have to have another conversation about policy limming and why it’s worth it I will put my face through my desk given the context

-Mena

this post just doesn't make any sense as town. why is he so opposed to this conversation? it's not like the thread was getting blown up
the "put my face through desk" comment seems like a huge exaggeration

I have one tentative TR so fsr

he has no development of reads as stated

I'm not confident notsci is town, should I be?

Notsci is my one TR lol

-Mena

and notsci? doesn't make any sense

I wasn’t pissed at you I was just a bit frustrated that EVERYONE was shooting it down

bc I have no baseline or any idea of who it is and that inherently makes me slightly +sus unless it’s hectic (which it apparently isn’t)

I’m not SRing them, I just feel uneasy with the slot

-Mena

uneasy but not SRing is such a cop-out

I just really hate the posting around NM and notsci

[SirCakez]

I like that Cakez has all the same townreads as nacho but doesn’t seem to take that into account or comment on it at all in his scumread

/s

who cares? why does this matter?

[SirCakez]

VOTE: sircakez

i didn't like the catchup

i don't think his reasoning is very thorough and seems to be fairly tailored towards not sticking out in thread state, plus some of his reactions (specifically @ DC) felt kinda overblown

~leaf

what does this even mean

i thought it was fairly easy to understand.

~leaf

how are my stances "tailored" towards not sticking out?
how were my reactions to DC overblown?

[SirCakez]

Similar views on the game state usually indicate similar POV aka similar alignment

we completely disagree about SRs and who to elim though

[SirCakez]

VOTE: sircakez

i didn't like the catchup

i don't think his reasoning is very thorough and seems to be fairly tailored towards not sticking out in thread state, plus some of his reactions (specifically @ DC) felt kinda overblown

~leaf

what does this even mean

i thought it was fairly easy to understand.

~leaf

how are my stances "tailored" towards not sticking out?
how were my reactions to DC overblown?

all of the reads you mentioned were slots that weren't likely to have a lot of discussion around them - you made reads on every slot except the two top wagons and the 0 poster

and the "YIKES" thing stuck out to me as overly performative

~leaf

I already made my stance on N_M clear and I did say I didn't like Nacho's posts
you can think that about yikes w/e

All of your scumreads sans me are in his scum pool lmao

oops mb
my point is I don't think we have the same perspective on this game at all
just look at his posts and what he's arguing for

[SirCakez]

Like I'm not disputing nacho has been weird because he has and this not_maf business in general is dumb

but I'm a little concerned that you didn't look at that reads list and go "How does my view of the game line up with this" because I think that's a fairly common core town-thought to have. Like yeah, maybe I'm off on your perspectives but not even trying to reconcile that with your reads is concerning.

The reads are similar but I can't reconcile Nacho's play so far this game with mine. Frankly I'm very surprised that our reads are so similar (I didn't notice this during my catchup) because when I read Nacho's posts they feel totally alien to me.

[SirCakez]

Because his team will sacrifice him the first opportunity they get. I know I would if scum!

Hmm I'm not sure I agree with this. If we can't read NM (notsci thinks he kinda can but less assume that for a sec) then they're always rand scum, and if our reads are any good then our best scumread should be >rand scum. The reason we can policy lim NM in a normal setup is that we can spend elims to narrow down the PoE, where we don't have that luxury here. Also, it's gonna be hard to get the votes to lim them unless they're town. So I'll only vote NM if the wagon on them is very towny.

As I've said before, I'm more than happy to move elsewhere if something better comes up.

I might have been a little more dramatic than necessary with the presentation of things yesterday which is why everyone apparently thinks the only think I will ever care about is Not_Mafia's day 1 death, but my point is that eliminating the weak link from the mafia team because mafia can sacrifice them would be a significant win. The person I see mafia as most likely to sacrifice is Not Mafia. As a result, he deserves extra scrutiny - I don't plan on letting him get past today unless he actually does something that looks town.

Example - this post

[SirCakez]

it depends. Usually I go through it to see if they have any reads I egregiously disagree with but I was skimming today because I had a lot to read and have a lot going on so that didn't happen.

[SirCakez]

DC I will get back to you in a little bit

V/LA till 16th April due to health issue.

I'd be voting for this slot if it wasn't for this post ngl.
I find everything they are doing is just them existing and vibing rather than actually playing the game.

Which just reads like scum going through the motions waiting for something easy to grab onto.
I can elaborate in 4 days I guess.

I highly disagree. I see a lot of town motivation in Salsa's play.

[SirCakez]

if there's one thing i don't like about cakez so far is progression on VFT

you come in a slot you're supposedly very wary of ("you always snow me", etc.)
but like outside of 241 (are you calling lilith's 101 scummy there? can't tell) you've got virtually no progression or focus on the slot and then they're just in your "don't like" pool because ????

i get being paranoid of strong scum but that's not the vibe i'm getting here.

I didn't elaborate on that because I was just trying to dump thoughts and move on
but basically I'm waiting on Lilith to give me some of the usual town pings and I have not gotten any so far so they are sitting in don't like until I see what I want to see

Vote: SirCakez

I don't believe his scumread on his disaster and I don't believe his scumread on me. I'll get into it later when I have more time.

mmmmmmmm

[SirCakez]

Nacho reacted pretty much how I'd expect him to as scum here
town!Nacho would reach out before immediately diving for an attack I think

[SirCakez]

VOTE: nacho

[SirCakez]

Popcorn yeah. Nacho reached out too; it wasn't just Tammy. Very similar situation where I opened SRing the slot.

[SirCakez]

@cakes

I already made my stance on N_M clear

actually I went through your ISO and couldn’t find any “clear stance” about NM whatsoever. I’m surprised you haven’t mentioned that NM is usually town when he’s being wagoned, like in panic room. That makes me think you’re trying not to lean too hard one way or the other on an NM wagon in case it does actually go through.

re: opinion on Nacho, like I said I don’t understand how someone comes to the conclusion that NM is the most valuable elim we can make D1. I don’t buy that this is a genuine town thought process from nacho. I think it’s more likely that nacho is trying to sacrifice a buddy to an elim so that he gets to direct an NK than scum!nacho trying to miselim the LHF town!NM so that he can sacrifice someone on his team who is presumably more valuable to his team than NM is to town. why ever go after such LHF like that when you have to sacrifice a partner for it? ergo, scumbuddies.

- lilith

you're literally ignoring me, so you can stop pretending that you're trying to read me whatsoever. "waiting on Lilith to give town pings" okay well how exactly are you doing that if you're not even reading my posts, and in particular the parts of those posts that are addressed to you?

- lilith

I missed this post somehow, I always address things aimed at me.
The meta that I had where NM is town if he is being wagoned has been proven not true so I don't use that anymore.

i've fallen for the not maf policy yeet too many times

I guess this was not clear enough but I have 0 interest in elimming NM today.

[SirCakez]

Done reading. Disaster Cartel is AWFUL and I do not want to move my vote. Nacho is also just ??????? leaning towards scum. All of the hydras are not good actually.

Not crazy about notsci, L+G, or Venus Fly Trap. I can have lots of scumreads in this game

don't most of these people not like nacho?

I don't like your approach to this game. It feels too passive.

also, uh, passive is not a word i use to describe notscience here, this kinda feels like buzzword-y handwave-y sort of shade

Do they? I'm not doing well keeping track of things this game.
Reread notsci's ISO. He's not really advocating for much actively. He feels laidback.

this post just doesn't make any sense as town. why is he so opposed to this conversation? it's not like the thread was getting blown up
the "put my face through desk" comment seems like a huge exaggeration

how much of your jk++ did you, like, read?
iirc a fair amt, no? like i remember you talking in the dead pt abt how likely it was that scum would carry out a win
in the context of how that game played out and how much mena wanted to flip nm i think his frustration makes sense ...

not really liking sircakez thus far

pedit yeah i don't actually think it's cabd. i think like unwnd > prism > maybe peta but he's on hiatus but the overlap of like tent + normal isn't that big i don't think
also legends you were scum in? i guess that context makes a bit more sense but you're not, like, being passive tho
pedit2 oh nm. idk i still don't like it. either way i don't think he's being much townie here tho

~ skitter

I read it more earlier than later because I got busy with school so I had to start skimming. I don't remember too much of games I did not play in usually except for my large themes.

[SirCakez]

not feeling very good about this game

[SirCakez]

I had this rando post open in another tab lemme dump it

Popcorn yeah. Nacho reached out too; it wasn't just Tammy. Very similar situation where I opened SRing the slot.

also thinking about this more:
popcorn is a game where you literally can't vote people
it just would not have occurred to me to even try to use that as a basis for a comparison, much less come to the conclusion you came to pretty much on the fly

??????????
I scumread them on open and Nacho tried to get me to change my view in Popcorn. Not being able to vote or not has NO effect on that.

[SirCakez]

because I can't track things as people are calling out and it's definitely throwing my reads off
too much on my mind these days

[SirCakez]

and like I get why people are SRing me when I'm making factually incorrect statements constantly

[SirCakez]

Yeah he couldn't vote in Popcorn but that hydra has a lot of influence in Popcorn they definitely could have just attacked me and pushed me up the shot queue

[SirCakez]

SirCakez:

Nacho reacted pretty much how I'd expect him to as scum here
town!Nacho would reach out before immediately diving for an attack I think

You don't get to play with nice Nacho after you drove me to wanting to gouge my eyeballs out with a McFlurry spoon in Popcorn Mafia. I will not be putting myself through that hell again, and if you want to play the same game that you played with us last time, I won't be only person having a bad time.

IN MY DEFENSE I came around on y'all last time and then you were NKed anyways

I'm hoping the oddball path that you took in order to arrive at scumreading me is faked so that I'm not again the unlucky recipient of a dumb Cakez tunnel, but either way, I want you to explain how your read on me evolved because what has made it into thread makes zero sense. You've talked about my play being weird or not understanding posts:

I think Nacho's play has been bizarre but I don't think this is in the realm of possiblity.

this post doesn't make any sense to me

The reads are similar but I can't reconcile Nacho's play so far this game with mine. Frankly I'm very surprised that our reads are so similar (I didn't notice this during my catchup) because when I read Nacho's posts they feel totally alien to me.

But there's nothing in your ISO that takes the leap from "Nacho is playing weird" to "Nacho is playing like scum". I'm not surprised that you'd try to keep the animosity directed towards me alive - there's enough anti-me sentiment floating around where I'm sure it feels like I can currently be mislynched whereas the longer you keep me alive the greater the chance you'd have to shoot me instead.

That's because of how long my catchup was. I read like 10 pages of posts in one go, so it wasn't like "hmm this is scummy" "hmm this is weird" it was like a whole bunch of posts that added up at once.

If you're town, though. What are you doing? If you also think that I am scum because you disagree with me on a game theory point, cool, join the rest. But just tell me that's why you're scumreading me; the way that the read unfolded instead looks like that you knew that there was a Nacho mislynch push going on that you wanted to join but put the read before the reasons.

My main hangup is I don't understand your obsession with elimming NM and I don't feel it like town!you at all.
I don't really see a path to elimming you right now anyways, but I am genuinely baffled by your early posts this game in a way that I wasn't in Popcorn.

Similar views on the game state usually indicate similar POV aka similar alignment

we completely disagree about SRs and who to elim though

So we have the same top townreads.

I am townreading notscience whereas you are not. You are scumreading him for being too passive. I scumread him initially for not being proactive in engaging me on something. The only other disagreement you could be referencing is centering around NM, which is still disagreeing with me on the theory point like everyone else. I get that you don't want to policy lynch him but that doesn't translate to a townread on him.

Somebody else already made this point.

This is the same shit you do to me in pretty much every iteration where I am town and you are town which unfortunately means you might be town here! Again! You start out by scumreading me and fit reasons to the read afterwards. Those reasons turn out to be incorrect because - surprise surprise - you never gave a shit about them in the first place - but instead of taking the time to reassess you just keep chugging full speed ahead. If you are town. For the love of god. Stop.

I will back off for now and watch how you develop post-NM push
UNVOTE:

[SirCakez]

In other news, let's look at that Disaster scumread, which is in and of itself a disaster!

Done reading. Disaster Cartel is AWFUL and I do not want to move my vote. Nacho is also just ??????? leaning towards scum. All of the hydras are not good actually.

Strong sentiment. The reasons he gives for the read is the propaganda piece found here. He accuses Mena of being scum because he said that he doesn't want to have a conversation about policying NM again after he went through JK9++ where he talked about being frustrated because no one was listening to him about policying NM.

CAKEZ - why is this scummy? how is it unusual to be frustrated to have a conversation that you just got done having in another game?

I already had this discussion with somebody my dude. I didn't realize Mena was so pissed about NM because I was skimming by the end of JK9++ because of being busy irl.

Next, Cakez calls Mena scum because him saying that he has one tenative townread means that "he has no development of reads", then strikes doubly hard at the notsci townread. I hate how Cakez is using Mena townreading notsci and me townreading notsci as ammo to attack us with, as if a townread on him is completely unacceptable but the only thing that he's brought up on notsci so far is that he's "too passive". I don't understand why Mena saying that he has one tenative townread on page 4 means that there's no development of reads, so

CAKEZ - why is mena announcing that he has one tenative townread in notsci proof for him having no development in his reads?

The read on notsci is not the evidence he has no development - it's the lack of other reads, despite Mena being pretty engaged this game.

[SirCakez]

This is a pretty ballsy post if this hydra is scum. My feeling is that Misty is less likely to draw attention to beeboy's absence if they are scum together.

This would have come up whether or not Misty addressed it

Sorry nacho, i was more interested in why that path of argument was chosen over others? Like trying to get into how I would decide those kills as scum that was one of my first thoughts.

Nacho and Cakez can dance

this post is irking me
why say "we can dance" notsci?

hello

i like vft more for skitter's posting on page 13

i don't like nm hopping in, going "oh yeah there's no way i get eliminated d1", then dipping out

~leaf

kind of gross post
seems like someone who felt like they had to post "content" and threw something out

[SirCakez]

I stg if we have to have another conversation about policy limming and why it’s worth it I will put my face through my desk given the context

-Mena

1 this post just doesn't make any sense as town. why is he so opposed to this conversation? it's not like the thread was getting blown up
2 the "put my face through desk" comment seems like a huge exaggeration

I have one tentative TR so fsr

3 he has no development of reads as stated

I'm not confident notsci is town, should I be?

Notsci is my one TR lol

-Mena

4 and notsci? doesn't make any sense

I wasn’t pissed at you I was just a bit frustrated that EVERYONE was shooting it down

bc I have no baseline or any idea of who it is and that inherently makes me slightly +sus unless it’s hectic (which it apparently isn’t)

I’m not SRing them, I just feel uneasy with the slot

-Mena

5 uneasy but not SRing is such a cop-out

I just really hate the posting around NM and notsci

(1) Did u read any of JK9++ while modding it? Or like, my hydra pt with skitts?

(2) yeah, sure, it is. why does that matter?

(3) bruh there were like 6 pages that I’d skimmed, what are you expecting from me at that point? Besides which, have you ever played with scum!mena before? Bc fabricating reads is not a weakness of my scumgame, especially not SRs

(4) does my entire conversation with notsci have any relevance regarding this..?

(5) see point (3), but like how is this anything other than NAI for me?

-Mena

1. Some of it. Like I've said a few times now I got busy and didn't really pay attention to the tail end.
2. It's too dramatic. Like you're fishing for townreads for your "frustration"
3. I cannot recall a time I have. It just doesn't add up for me because you seem to be fairly engaged but you haven't really put much together.
4. I just don't understand why you are TRing him. But this is not really a point for me SRing you.
5. I always find it scummy when people do this.

[SirCakez]

seems like someone who felt like they had to post "content" and threw something out

i mean basically

i signed up to hydra and my partner's barely been playing

so im kinda just coasting b/c im not motivated

~leaf

what was the purpose of the post then?

[SirCakez]

fuck you guys for posting 7 pages I just want to crash in bed and watch tv

[SirCakez]

1. Some of it. Like I've said a few times now I got busy and didn't really pay attention to the tail end.
2. It's too dramatic. Like you're fishing for townreads for your "frustration"
3. I cannot recall a time I have. It just doesn't add up for me because you seem to be fairly engaged but you haven't really put much together.
4. I just don't understand why you are TRing him. But this is not really a point for me SRing you.
5. I always find it scummy when people do this.

(1) okay, but this didn’t really happen at the tail end, it was more of a D1/D2 thing which is why I’m surprised you don’t remember
(2) cakez, we’ve played before, how is me being dramatic AI to you? Hyperbole is exactly within my ballpark as both alignments
(3 & 4) firstly,, I’m not that engaged rn (I’m a lil burned out from how high intensity I was in the micro that just finished), and secondly, his is a feature of the setup? Like I’m aware there’s an unusually high concentration of scum in this game + there’s a decent number of new faces to me, so I’m taking more time bc if I can get, like, 3 solid TRs say, I have a very good % chance of hitting scum. I thought notsci was one of the players who just won’t bother as scum, hence him doing... anything was towny. It turns out that’s not right, but I still think he’s leaning town bc of the fact that he didn’t just take the free townread
(5) okay, so then is it actually scum indicative for me or not in your opinion?

-Mena

1. No I don't recall that but I believe it probably happened and I've just forgotten
2. meh it felt different tonally. w/e
3. Ok but you didn't say that before.
5. Yes it is.

[SirCakez]

Cartel little less yikes. more meh now.

VOTE: leafeon and glaceon

[SirCakez]

That's because of how long my catchup was. I read like 10 pages of posts in one go, so it wasn't like "hmm this is scummy" "hmm this is weird" it was like a whole bunch of posts that added up at once.

You're not responding to my point at all.

My point is just is that you kept pointing out things that were weird and not scummy. And you called them weird not scummy. Three weird posts doesn't normally equal a scumread so when did your read change from "what Nacho is doing is weird" to "what Nacho is doing is scummy"?

I thought it was implied.

My main hangup is I don't understand your obsession with elimming NM and I don't feel it like town!you at all.
I don't really see a path to elimming you right now anyways, but I am genuinely baffled by your early posts this game in a way that I wasn't in Popcorn.

How am I obsessing over an NM push? I brought it up. I explained reasons why. Why are my reasons for pushing him incorrect?

Like it drives me crazy when you go "ah this sucks" without even making a token effort to address my reasons for doing something - you jumped down my throat for Norfolk defense early last game when we weren't defending Norfolk and instead were pointing out that the people attacking him early for dumb reasons.

Also, why do you think that you can differentiate between the way town me pushes something and the way scum me pushes something when you can't find town me in the first place?

At the beginning you were.
I think the arguments are flawed because like some have said we get extremely little info from yeeting NM and his elim is not super helpful either way he flips.
And I don't want to restart this debate anyways.
Because I have recent meta from Popcorn whereas in Popcorn I had nothing to work off with you guys in recent memory.

My point is just is that you kept pointing out things that were weird and not scummy. And you called them weird not scummy. Three weird posts doesn't normally equal a scumread so when did your read change from "what Nacho is doing is weird" to "what Nacho is doing is scummy"?

Do you think this is scum-indicative (for cakez)?

I find that Cakez might take this approach as either alignment because, as I've talked about in thread several times now, he's done it before.

I think the more alignment indicative piece will be his responses when he decides to do something other than just straight up blow me off.

I have not and never have "blown you off"

Somebody else already made this point.

Notscience brought up this point. Your response was that you didn't know my reads because you were skimming. That's not good enough for me.

I have nothing else to offer to this.

@nacho I'm having a hard time seeing which parts of your cakez read don't boil down to "I don't get cakez", or how you not getting cakez means he's scum in this context

The push Cakez made with the most scum intent was the one on me, which I talked about before. Whenever a townie is getting a lot of heat from those present in the thread and then a newcomer rolls around and goes "A-HA! You are scummy!" with reasons that are questionable at best, you can bet your left eye that I'm going to hold them to the fire from it.

This literally only happened because I had some time irl to get in here. You think I was lurking and just waiting to snipe at you?

[SirCakez]

If Kismet is bork that is OBVIOUSLY town

Seems hella convenient that you’re sussing me when I’m like the only one who hasn’t been happy to rubberstamp you as town, kismet!

-Mena

This post is really shitty though and it has such a dumb and illogical implication. Who would go after someone just because they refuse to TR you? This insinuates scum motivation behind the move but that would be such a dumb scum move.

I am bullying him because being rude to Cakez seems to be the quickest way to get him to actually address things with me - whenever I reach out or play softball he tends to glaze over what I'm saying to him.

this isn't wrong <.<

seems like someone who felt like they had to post "content" and threw something out

i mean basically

i signed up to hydra and my partner's barely been playing

so im kinda just coasting b/c im not motivated

~leaf

what was the purpose of the post then?

to throw something out?

the reads weren't forced as in i forced myself to make reads where i didnt have any it was more that i had to force myself to read thread and get them out

~leaf

why don't you engage the game how you want to instead of doing whatever you're doing rn?

Vote: Leafeon and Glaceon

worse
VFT

[SirCakez]

i think cakez and nm are the two scummiest slots in the game rn

this is such bullshit lol

and no, my why on you is partially that, but moreso because I think your SR on me seems fabricated or like it’s at the very least treating me with bad faith

really dislike this
why is DC so concerned with how they are being read? the initial argument here was terrible

[SirCakez]

happy birthday Infinity ^.^

[SirCakez]

Mom/Braveheart is also #badslot btw

[SirCakez]

Thanks!

Mena is always concerned with how people read him and I think it might actually be towny

/thonks

[SirCakez]

Mom/Braveheart is also #badslot btw

just cuz they haven't done anything or is there something more

Actually scratch this read <.<
I made an error because redacted
scrambled thoughts these days

the head that actually posts is here

growing more confident on cakez, i hate how he's basically trying to just push past our scumread instead of like, talking against it

makes me think he just wants to get the miselim on our slot then leave the game tonight

p-edit: apparently we are both here

~leaf

Your SR on me is just a nothingburger. What is there to talk against?

growing more confident on cakez, i hate how he's basically trying to just push past our scumread instead of like, talking against it

i don't think i explained this well but like

his initial callout on our slot was ~fine, his follow-up was ~fine, but then he didn't acknowledge my explanation then voted us later on

and the way he's just calling our push on him bs instead of actually acknowledging it feels wolfy to me

~leaf

What explanation? There was nothing.

Done reading. Disaster Cartel is AWFUL and I do not want to move my vote. Nacho is also just ??????? leaning towards scum. All of the hydras are not good actually.

this might seem like a dumb thing to point out but why didn't you say you weren't crazy about our slot in your small list of reads? or had you just not read us at that point? bc i feel like if you think we're that awful we would have been a slot you weren't that crazy about

- ydra

I didn't list every single person it wasn't comprehensive. I think my previous posts had made it transparently clear that I SRed you.

[SirCakez]

I feel like y'all might be underestimating my scumgame but w/e I'm town here

after my large normal...hahahaha

i do a lot better in the moment i think than going back to read things

you're not obligated to catch up on everything if playing in the moment is a better way for you to get reads / show your alignment

so many people don't understand this and it makes reading people such a pain in the ass sometimes

why not?

Because that suggestion of play is just ridiculous and not something Nacho would do.

I think The Bulge is town

[SirCakez]

why did Mom yell at me and then proceed to not generate any content?

[SirCakez]

oh yeah I forgot how burned out Bork was from rolling scum 10x in a row
He is basically IC levels of town this game LOL

[SirCakez]

I still want Nacho to talk about his strong VFT sr

[SirCakez]

they forced me at gunpoint to stop my catchup

- ydra

I think this is a strong mischaracterization

I think The Bulge is town

if there's anything that bothers me about bulge is that he's very obviously been reading but he's chosen to only engage about one thing in particular and that thing is an unflipped association (infinity/l&g) which i'm worried the grounds aren't particularly solid on.

I realize he has Qs for me about infinity which i should responsibly reexamine my read while answering, but that will probably come tonight.

I don't think this is fair
He has engaged me on some things for one

[SirCakez]

I think a lot of my trepidation around nacho revolves around my history of scumreading him and him never ever being scum (still to this day don't recall a T-bork S-nacho table)

i'm basically trying to search in my heart of hearts to see if 458 comes from town and see if his incredulity is because i am not getting him there or if he's just pushing me away.

The point i was trying to make in the post at the beginning of that chain was that he goes in w/ cakez and makes a big deal about how he's going to make the game miserable for cakez if his attitude continues, which isn't a sentiment i expect from someone unsure of why cakez is doing what he's doing, and i don't know if nacho legitimately missed the point i was trying to make and thought i was saying "his push was unwarranted" or is just trying to be obtuse about it.

the thing that gives me pause is that nacho and i have interacted this way in the past, although admittedly not recently.

I just don't have a lot of confidence in my ability to read him overall.

see he's right that I have misread him many times before
but also like as scum would he lean into that against me?
:/

[SirCakez]

Would [scum] go out of their way to discredit and deter someone with a high likelihood of scumreading them?

Would [towb] go out of their way to discredit and deter someone with a high likelihood of scumreading them?

Yes and no imo but this is heavily dependent on the player
(this question was at me I think? it's something I've talked about)

My big issue with Cakez’s vote there is how delayed it was. Like I feel like the action was very delayed with the thought and came across too slowly. Like he had to make two separate posts about it

I waited because I still wasn't totally sold on Nacho scum at that point.
To be devil's advocate - I can believe Nacho's anger because I really pissed him off in Popcorn Mafia

Bulge hasn’t done anything yet, I’m surprised Cakez is townreading him to be honest.

I liked him actually engaging when he was here

In my limited experience with bulge they're super obvtown as town and they're not that this game

I don't think this is true

[SirCakez]

I don't think I can ever think of a time where Bulge appeared obvious town and I have played with him as town semi-recently (we miselimmed him I think it was the Smoke-Filled game? he definitely was not obvious town there)

[SirCakez]

why can't y'all post during the day when I'm around q.q

[SirCakez]

and i dont' see many other examples recently so fair enuf, you have a point in that it's not super common, but even so that doesn't make the push good
and i'm kinda more interested in the tone/cakez stuff now

And if this is the closest example that you can find then I think it proves my point.

I never said the push was good, but the idea that it was scummy because I was trying to kill lynchbait immediately/get my partner lynched so I can kill a scary townie is absurd; if I was genuinely trying to get NM killed as scum, my approach would be very different.

This is one thing that hangs me up with Nacho; I'm just not he'd pull this tactic as scum to try to get NM elimmed for whatever reason.

who is townbinning VFT?

Kismet and Cakez and a couple others.

I never explicitly said this. There's a reason I've been hounding you for your VFT read thoughts and that's because I am v conflicted over them.
I dislike how harshly Lilith attacked me early on just because I missed a post. Skitter's content has felt pretty good though?

skitter feels more like she's trying to win an argument than divine an argument

This gets Skitter miselimmed all the time.
I'm just hesitant to bury her for this when I've seen her go down over it more than once.

[SirCakez]

If you are town and we are incorrectly pushing you, who is the scum capitalizing on it? You are townreading all your main pushers as far as I can tell

I thought the answer was VFT but I'm backing away there.

I think that most (if not all) scum are just letting townies put the work in for them - the suspicion around me that bothers me the most is stuff like Bulge and his agenda push and Mara attacking me for pushing low hanging fruit.

I definitely don't like whatever it is that Mom is doing
Wanna help me wagon there?

town?
VFT

I'm so confused you just spent a bunch of posts calling them scum and I don't see where your mind changed

[SirCakez]

like yeah i see what you're saying and agree with u that cakez is more nuanced than i'd expect as scum but i have issues with the timing and progression of this
(and how i'm suddenly town and how you're now interacting with me)

Holding timing against me is silly. I wasn't around when Cakez did town shit. Part of the reasons why my progressions are as chaotic as they are is because I flip my reads pretty quickly naturally. Part of the reason is because I tend to go 24 hours between significant posting sessions but am still skimming and thinking about the game in the meantime.

I also can appreciate this because due to my busy schedule I often have to go through big chunks of posts all at once that will change my mind on things drastically

I'm just not thinking Nacho would pull out the stuff he has here as scum. I just don't think he would choose to play that way.

[SirCakez]

Oh yeah Salsa. Where are they? I liked their early posts.
Something is pinging me on DC's recent posts but I can't quite explain it.
Nacho's Mom and Leaf cases are really good. I don't think I am interested in elimming anyone but one of those two right now.

Don't I always?


And I'm sure you do have more than pushes against low ballers. That's a little flat and you aren't a flat person.

It doesn't take a whole lot to see there are a lot things floating around you

This rebuttal to Nacho is awful. Not even a defense of herself, just a straight (and weak) attack calling Nacho's push bad because...she is LHF??

why did Mom yell at me and then proceed to not generate any content?

Cuz you do things like this. It especially kills me cuz you took this exact same approach in shady. So far I've got s100% callout rate on your alignment. Isn't that interesting?

Ugh phones suck

See above

[SirCakez]

Cakez who should I be voting and why

Mara, same question. I need more than”oh they’re going after LHF” because the reality of this game is we have a handful of people really good at standing out as town, the outliers are going to be on the forefront.

Vote Leafeon or Mom whoever you think is scummier
Reasons why just look at Nacho's cases he summed my thoughts up better than I could

[SirCakez]

VOTE: mom
Choo choo

[SirCakez]

ok then do something Mom. I'm not stopping you but you're acting all indignant.

[SirCakez]

I definitely don't like whatever it is that Mom is doing
Wanna help me wagon there?

My preference is Leafeon over Mom right now because Leafeon has been around for the entire game and done nothing (and beeboy is following his lukrfuck scum meta to a T), whereas Mom entry is so far not great but there's a greater chance she flips town here.

Good points

ahhhh

nacho, do you have anything you want me to look at/read over when i’m home later? or if we’re both online later we can talk then too?

i like... i still have the weird dissonance from before but i want to at least talk to you bc you’re putting in a fuckton of effort right now and after thinking... it doesn’t make sense to dislike your slot but like your reads i think? if that makes sense, like there’s something wrong but idk!!!

- ydra

I don't really feel good about this post
It feels like Ydra is hedging their bets here whether the general thread sentiment shifts towards SRing or TRing Nacho

[SirCakez]

he tunneled me in family and rogue one

how do you remember these games???

you tried to push VFT and it didn't take.

You're not the first person to say this but it's not correct.

If I was scum here I would be pushing townies to die. People can disagree with me and I'd still push for townies to die because playing scum is all about cracking trust and breaking down townblocks. Like in Order of the Stick when I got edged out pretty harshly by a solid townblock I kept pushing at people like Wisdom even though it wasn't popular because you need to push mislynches to win as scum. Here ESPECIALLY I would only need to kill one townie in order to safehouse myself so I can guarantee that I would get that one townie lynched.

This is making me paranoid you tried to use old meta as a stick to push me with and then when you got backlash for it and not many people came along like they did in Xenoblade 2 you've pulled back

I don't think Bulge makes 973 as scum like ever here. I like that he's going against the grain on Infinity. I like that he sees the same things I do in DC. Also I think he would try to miselim me here as scum because he knows it's possible from recent experience.

[SirCakez]

bulge just looks utterly nothing like illicit bulge so far.

i'm not saying he's definitely scum for that, but he's not getting into the thick of it with anyone, or being cheeky, or, as infinity says, asking clarifying questions to establish context, which was an absolutely hallmark of his play in illicit.

just sterilized analysis

on the other hand it's way better then what he offered in Hidden Temple as scum

also i feel like the beeboy stuff is overblown by everybody.

beeboy hasn't been really present on site in a bit, isn't active outside of this game right now, and there could be a fucking myriad of other reasons for that.

The beeboy stuff is a sub-part of my SR there ftr - I think Mistyxx is making plenty of badposts.

no you silly goose

- ydra

This response irks me. The "silly goose" comment feels like it's trying to be endearing in an unnatural way.

I don’t like his bulge townread either!

What do you think of the inverse- bulges townread on him?

If we were buddies here I think Bulge would be bussing me lol

I keep trying to think up 3p scum teams and forgetting there are so many fucking scum this game
Maybe like (Leaf, Mom, DC) as three and then some people from (VFT, Salsa, NM, notsci)?????

[SirCakez]

I'm gonna be honest i dont know where to put dc rn, i kinda want to put them above the null line but that doesnt feel quite right and null isnt either

so in scum???? Lol this seems obvious.

In xeno he was stamping his feet throughout day one as Cabd managed to amass a wagon on him without a case. I think it was more over the top ans aggressive compared to the understated nature here, if that makes sense. The delicacy of the frustration made me lean town.

Do I think it’s fake able? Potentially. Do I think this is the game? Not really.

Ninja-
Was for ydra

A bit concerned about mena’s disappearance but understand real life is a thing. Was very meh about his townread on me and feels like he just got that intro “townread notsci and he’ll ignore you” from a buddy

No one should really use Xenoblade 2 as a stick for my meta because I was extremely perturbed that entire game mainly from Cabd's tunnel on me but also from IRL shit I had going on. Prism recently made that mistake in Warehouse 13.

In xeno he was stamping his feet throughout day one as Cabd managed to amass a wagon on him without a case. I think it was more over the top ans aggressive compared to the understated nature here, if that makes sense. The delicacy of the frustration made me lean town.

Do I think it’s fake able? Potentially. Do I think this is the game? Not really.

Ninja-
Was for ydra

A bit concerned about mena’s disappearance but understand real life is a thing. Was very meh about his townread on me and feels like he just got that intro “townread notsci and he’ll ignore you” from a buddy

Hi
I would like to talk to you at some point so I can sort your slot!

@lilith

so this sticks out in your skimming

[SirCakez]

i think infinity is town

i think nm actively avoiding creating content and catching zero heat for it makes him very likely scum

~leaf

not a very good response for obv reasons

yay Salsa is back!

245, 246: are actually pretty bad, totally passive. After called out by some players, you elaborate yours takes on 258 which I find more suspicious, cause I think if you're town, you would start from 258.

I tend not to explain stuff unless I feel like it or people call me out (like happened)

From nearly post nothing?? I really don't understand why town!you want to sheep me or scum!you want to pocket me. What's going on you head exactly?

You had like 15 posts at that point it was enough for me to get a tone read

Salsa when you finish your catchup I am extremely interested in a sort of coalesced read from you on Nacho.

[SirCakez]

man it feels good to be caught up

[SirCakez]

In xeno he was stamping his feet throughout day one as Cabd managed to amass a wagon on him without a case. I think it was more over the top ans aggressive compared to the understated nature here, if that makes sense. The delicacy of the frustration made me lean town.

Do I think it’s fake able? Potentially. Do I think this is the game? Not really.

Ninja-
Was for ydra

A bit concerned about mena’s disappearance but understand real life is a thing. Was very meh about his townread on me and feels like he just got that intro “townread notsci and he’ll ignore you” from a buddy

Hi
I would like to talk to you at some point so I can sort your slot!

@lilith

so this sticks out in your skimming[/quote
Just noticed this quote was fucked up
Was supposed to be:

just popping in before I pass out. as before, please @ me if there’s specific stuff I need to respond to. I skimmed some but have not read the longer posts in depth. feeling like the wagons shifting away from nacho even though bork (who I think is pretty UTR) is/was voting for nacho is suspicious/noteworthy, but I’m not really sure what implications that has yet. also planning on reading nacho’s walls and back and forth with kismet but it won’t be before the weekend.

I want bulge to be town because it felt like we were mindmelding last night on infinity and lfg as far as I could tell though, that didn’t even merit a mention in bulge’s read on our slot - which in retrospect makes it seem like he was using me as a springboard to push infinity/l&g and that we weren’t mindmelding at all, because that’s usually a very prevalent part of my read on someone

goodbye for now. will try to check in again asap but don’t know when, I’m hoping hell season ends soon

- lilith

[SirCakez]

In xeno he was stamping his feet throughout day one as Cabd managed to amass a wagon on him without a case. I think it was more over the top ans aggressive compared to the understated nature here, if that makes sense. The delicacy of the frustration made me lean town.

Do I think it’s fake able? Potentially. Do I think this is the game? Not really.

Ninja-
Was for ydra

A bit concerned about mena’s disappearance but understand real life is a thing. Was very meh about his townread on me and feels like he just got that intro “townread notsci and he’ll ignore you” from a buddy

Hi
I would like to talk to you at some point so I can sort your slot!

@lilith

so this sticks out in your skimming

Just noticed this quote was fucked up
Was supposed to be:

just popping in before I pass out. as before, please @ me if there’s specific stuff I need to respond to. I skimmed some but have not read the longer posts in depth. feeling like the wagons shifting away from nacho even though bork (who I think is pretty UTR) is/was voting for nacho is suspicious/noteworthy, but I’m not really sure what implications that has yet. also planning on reading nacho’s walls and back and forth with kismet but it won’t be before the weekend.

I want bulge to be town because it felt like we were mindmelding last night on infinity and lfg as far as I could tell though, that didn’t even merit a mention in bulge’s read on our slot - which in retrospect makes it seem like he was using me as a springboard to push infinity/l&g and that we weren’t mindmelding at all, because that’s usually a very prevalent part of my read on someone

goodbye for now. will try to check in again asap but don’t know when, I’m hoping hell season ends soon

- lilith

Fixed - ugh

[SirCakez]

The way mom is approaching sorting this game doesn't feel genuine

I concur

@lilith

so this sticks out in your skimming

I see the @ but don’t understand what I’m supposed to be responding to. do you want to talk about anything?

- lilith

Yes hi I would like to talk about your read on me.
What do you think about Nacho's interactions with you guys?

[SirCakez]

dude just take a break

[SirCakez]

I have no idea what you're talking about I just saw you seemed frustrated

[SirCakez]

Good wagon tho

[SirCakez]

Because we have the two hardest hitting scum members unable to get traction and their team of lurkers can’t bail them out/isn’t being scummy enough to divert attention

i like this post a lot tonally
scum doesn't usually speak with this level of confidence and brashness imo

Cakez be my LLD?

what does this mean?

Actually, kismet is town, your slot is kinda gross for your other head, cakez, salsa, leafy are all probably scum

All of notsci’s improvement in mafia has apparently been left behind in 2020 but I guess he’s town

NM can be scum still

Mom and bulge I haven’t really read any posts from

I don't believe that DC believes these reads

Do you scumread me from the start of the game, or it has started recently because I start to scumread you hence vote you?

I was waiting to give you a chance after your initial vote on me and instead of having any like, actual thought process on scum or why X is scum, you’ve just been creating justifications to shift between what I think are the two easiest wagons for scum to be on (mine/nacho’s)

there are definitely easier wagons for scum...

I just realized I didn't share my read-list....

Good group:

Kismet

,

Venus Fly Trap

Re-evaluate group:

Nachomamma8

,

SirCakez

,

Infinity 324

Null group:

Not_Mafia

,

Momrangal

,

notscience

,

The Bulge

Bad group:

Leafeon and Glaceon

,

Disaster Cartel

I like this readslist

[SirCakez]

at this point I'll yeet any of (Leafy, Mom, DC) for sure
Still not sold on Nacho

[SirCakez]

Huh

[SirCakez]

UNVOTE:

i had been following along for 20-ish pages but did not keep up with later events

i had one major takeaway

which is that as much as it would give me sheer vindictive pleasure to dunk nacho's head into the sand at this very moment i'm pretty sure he's town here and the wagon on him just absolutely sucks here

and i saw it happening while i was watching from outside the game and was internally screaming, hoping a slot would open up for me so i could stop this travesty

Sorry you replaced into a scum slot

[SirCakez]

Hi peta forgive my last post I am excited to play with you but bummed I’m playing against you

bold of u to claim scum like this

Peta is scum

[SirCakez]

cakez i know you wanting to catch me is funny memes and all but this aint the game where it gets to happen

i can totally ignore your play and you're still scum because you're in a scum slot that we know about thanks to L/G

nacho feeling like he's playing survivor and not mafia

LMAO

@cakez be my lld means sheep me and If I’m wrong you can kill me

ok on Nacho?

more familiar but i'm not seeing it on its own. looking at your reads the case is like: bad read on infinity, isn't voting(???), feels distant? am i getting that right?

Bulge solving usually comes in smaller bites but it feels better than this. Him taking all that time to make the biggest wall he's ever made but not placing a vote is a problem, absolutely - scum put in effort to look town where town put in effort to find scum and kill scum and also look town. I don't think his wall furthers a town agenda (as a whole doesn't feel like he tried to actually solve anything especially with stuff like the "nacho is the most important person to solve" without saying anything about me) - and putting all that effort in and not having a scum suspect you feel comfortable voting boggles my mind although maybe I weigh the importance of voting too much. I can absofuckinglutely see that wall in a world where Bulge wants to fool notscience, though.

I don't believe this and I don't believe you believe this

I’d kill peta regardless of nachos flip

lol ok

VOTE: notscience

This reaction is awful and not what Peta would do as town

skitter said mena doesn't want me to talk to him which made me not really want to open this game today :/

@cakes I still haven't read the nacho walls from like 15 pages ago, but I think skitter and I are on the same page re: nacho or at least I trust her judgment on this, I think we're both feeling really frustrated at the lack of traction on his wagon and our best guess is that the wagon is stalling because scum are trying to divert the wagon elsewhere, namely petapan/DC/mom slots. It did feel like he backed off of us really quickly once bork said he was townreading us. I'll grant that it could have been a genuine reevaluation but given the current gamestate neither of us believe that's the case. I don't really remember reading recent posts from you or if I did then I forgot what you've said.... sorry. I'm trying to put time aside at some point this week to actually read stuff because I'm so behind, so if there's specific posts you want me to look at and talk about with you that would be helpful.

- lilith

Ok I trust you + notscience on this.

VOTE: Nacho

[SirCakez]

nacho feeling like he's playing survivor and not mafia

I think this is a pretty succinct way to sum up how Nacho is irking me still. He seems very desperate to not be elimmed today in his recent posts.

[SirCakez]

VOTE: Not Mafia

also
what the hell is this?

[SirCakez]

Nachomamma8 (5): Venus Fly Trap, Infinity 324, Kismet, notscience, SirCakez

yeah ok I'm extremely happy with this wagon composition

[SirCakez]

if Nacho flips scum then we have a great scum pool of (Mom, Peta, DC, NM) to work with

[SirCakez]

and i'm wondering how many times you'll end up killing obvtown before you realize this townblock is toxic and you are being pocketed

There's literally no evidence of this

[SirCakez]

i see you are also in opposition to this atrocious wagon but unfortunately your vote is on me

could i persuade you to find a more suitable counterwagon

I've experienced Peta replace ins before and he's never been so obsessed with how people are reading him

[SirCakez]

but like... cakez' intro was bad and I think deservedly called out by nacho? like if it was slightly exaggerated so what, it was still a good push then and is a good push now

I hate this
Nacho's pushback against me was very entangled with our histories playing together
Calling my intro objectively "bad" as called out by Nacho feels like heavy misrep

[SirCakez]

there are definitely easier wagons for scum...

said wagons being... ?

NM or the Bulge

I don't believe that DC believes these reads

...because ?

There's no conviction in how you're talking about any of them

[SirCakez]

I'm surprised it took this long it's an anomaly if i am not wagoned day 1 lol

[SirCakez]

Mom is a universal a undead but no traction came on her wagon
Seems pretty obvious what is going on there

[SirCakez]

Universal scumread*

[SirCakez]

I'd love to murder Mom my worry is that if Nacho is scum that after Mom flips scum one of the Nacho drivers will be killed and it will be hard to flip him

[SirCakez]

Like, take this post infinity

but like... cakez' intro was bad and I think deservedly called out by nacho? like if it was slightly exaggerated so what, it was still a good push then and is a good push now

I hate this
Nacho's pushback against me was very entangled with our histories playing together
Calling my intro objectively "bad" as called out by Nacho feels like heavy misrep

Apparently this is bad from me bc I’m endorsing nacho’s take of him being bad

But like he has no interest in if *i* disliked his intro for reasons other than nacho’s which, btw, I did

How is this opportunistic? I've been SRing you for a while

[SirCakez]

You're quoting old posts and ignored how I've continued to call out your scummy posts well past that point

[SirCakez]

Why didn't you call out that stuff earlier?

[SirCakez]

You're quoting old posts and ignored how I've continued to call out your scummy posts well past that point

What scummy posts I didn’t play for like 3 days

which head is this??

I obviously didn’t say that because why would I give you a free guide on how to get a TR from me when I was thinking you were >rand scum

????????????????????????????

[SirCakez]

2 doesn't make any sense
A free guide to getting a TR from you like what? Why would I want you to townread me when I scumread you?

[SirCakez]

2 doesn't make any sense
A free guide to getting a TR from you like what? Why would I want you to townread me when I scumread you?

because you’re scum, you had a shitty scumread on me that you couldn’t justify, I intereogated that and you didn’t really have any reasons for it but I’m saying that if I’d then said “oh I’m not calling you out on this bc I want to see if you use the fact that the SR was super weak and this engagement to re-evaluate or not before I commit on you being scum” then that would have entirely defeated the point

why would I reeval when you keep making scummy posts?

who are you actually scumreading in (me, noddy, infinity, vfp) rather than just saying haven't left their range yet

I do not want a solidified townbloc without me in it with two slots that I am absolutely not comfortable calling town with any level of confidence in it (and who I think are like reasonable equity partners if either one flip scum and a significant portion of my scum bloc is wrong)

for example this post

For the record maras near 95% scum with that and her not voting nacho when she had a scumread there is sketchy

yes
the thing with scum-nacho is that i think he's going to get harder to flip as time goes on; if we flip scum the people who'd be pushing him are gonna die

good restatement of what I'm thinking

The more vocal people die the more nacho can strongarm.

Nacho or bust.

^^^^^^
Mom wagon is shit she will be easy to kill later
If scum!Nacho is kept around it will be very difficult to wrest control of the game away from him

Vote: Momrangal

Knew it was too good to be true wrt Cakez. Is okay.

and this is so survivalistic
like I've been saying Nacho seems way too concerned with not dying this game

The Bulge seems like a scum-designated miselim

[SirCakez]

Vote: Momrangal

Knew it was too good to be true wrt Cakez. Is okay.

?

There was a point where Cakez was correctly reading me but I see it didn't last. Is OK. Got all my aggression out there.

all of my townreads scumread you so yeah

ok see if you can explain his townread on me, i'll wait

If it makes you feel better I'm working back to a scumread on you!

like this just seems soooo manipulative and angled to better match a gamestate where VFT is town and Nacho is scum

Yeah, it's just salsa and mena both feel quite towny to me atm

don't fall for Mena's AtE please

[SirCakez]

And you think this despite the massive push back against him? You think this despite the fact that there are people defending him?

Right now it looks like Nacho is the easiest elimination if town. Why do you have such a dramatic reaction to my vote and why are you so keen to ignore everything that has already happened around NM?

You must have a terrible opinion on my scum game if you think Im gonna run away from a Nacho!partner pursuit

and what if Nacho is scum, like many think?
what do you mean what has happened around NM?

Who's protecting me?

nobody but until recently no wagon could form on you

This makes no sense. Even if nacho is scum, town doesn't need a total scum wipe to win

keep reading we talk about this

Nacho himself is largely null but if I'm right about the circumstances around NM and Nachos push there, circumstantially I think hes likely town

What would you call the whole thing of Nacho gaining alot of headturns due to his early NM push,

this looks like a buddy posturing around another buddy

[SirCakez]

to me there just seems like such a blatantly obvious block of (Nacho, Mom, Peta, DC) who are all maneuvering around each other and trying to save Nacho via bussing universal scumread Mom

[SirCakez]

it could be yeah

[SirCakez]

why would I reeval when you keep making scummy posts?

Bc this was way before then? Like I know you’re kinda locked into SRing me now, my point is that if u were town I think you would have re-eval’d after that initial engagement over why your initial scumread was p much entirely based on things that are NAI or just super weak reasons

I did back off at that point; I made a post where I said you moved to "meh" from scummy

And frankly the amount of times you try asserting nacho is town to me whileagreeing with others scumreads or questioning his posts is sketchy.

I think Salsa is town but she should address this

[SirCakez]

Kismet + NM = hammer

[SirCakez]

and what if Nacho is scum, like many think?
what do you mean what has happened around NM?

Then my theory is wrong.

The theory can easily be tested through a NM flip but nobody wants to even think about it. Nacho!town would be a recipient of the chainsaw defense to save NM. Nacho!scum would never be a recipient. If NM flips scum, Nacho is conftown

why would we flip NM first when Nacho gives 10x info?

[SirCakez]

Cakes why did you decide to trust us? it seemed like you were building up to a scumread on our slot earlier

- lilith

My other townreads seem to think you are town in general and nothing has raised my eyebrows since early game
I have mentioned Bork is a strong TR a couple times

[SirCakez]

And if I'm right about the Nacho/mom/peta/dc scumblock you guys don't make sense in there at all

[SirCakez]

DC if you can't remember anything Mom has posted shouldn't that be a pretty strong indicator to you that she is scum?

[SirCakez]

Can we flip and move on

[SirCakez]

jab jab jab

[SirCakez]

o/

i know someone asked me abt mom yesterday, cakez i think, and to answer: it is more than likely that if i cant remember moms posting that shes scum but i also cant remember like, 40 pages of this game so i didnt knwo if i was being dumb

on a skim though i'm fine w just killing mom if that's the move today

- ydra

is this an actually SRing Mom or is it indifference?

Presently we are killing Nacho.

I feel this is still the best option

Nacho and peta said they wanted to bounce stuff off each other.

what are the odds this actually materializes?

having a hard time seeing peta's opening as town no matter what nacho is

just seems like a very goal-oriented opening rather than a fact-finding one.

extremely accurate I 100% agree

[SirCakez]

I don't really believe Peta's SR on me at all given our recent experiences

[SirCakez]

what is Mom even talking about?

[SirCakez]

i don't have like a glorious towncase for nacho or anything it just comes down to knowing him and the way he plays and feeling the reasons for scumreading him aren't very good at all

This feels so noncommittal

[SirCakez]

I was going to sheep myself out today after the Nacho flip but Peta being scum makes me think I was still somewhat on track

[SirCakez]

Im fine dumping NM now

[SirCakez]

Cant believe how accurately beeboy played to scum meta LOL

[SirCakez]

My top pick for yeet today would be Mom however

[SirCakez]

I don't like the quoted 980s, particularly 980. I'll hold judgement on The Bulge.

VOTE: notmafia

I’m trash, I’ll sheep mena, etc

You throw in the towel fast.

He said he would do this yesterday if nacho was town so I don't think it means much

[SirCakez]

VOTE: not mafia for now

[SirCakez]

Salsa slot definitely looks worse now

[SirCakez]

Still think DC is scum

[SirCakez]

Could see (DC, Iverson, Mom, NM)
With there being some bussing of NM here for obvious reasons

[SirCakez]

What's your read on bulge?

Notsci do you still TR bulge?

I thought he was town yesterday but I could be wrong with Nacho flipping town. If he's scum then I'm wrong somewhere else.

Can you describe what is changing post to post right now when you're giving these reads?

There is not much to read so far this day and those reads don't seem to be related to what has been posted so far

A lot of it is me going back to my reads from yesterday and reevaluating with the flips we have now.

[SirCakez]

I had one SR right one SR wrong so it's sort of a wash to my reads

[SirCakez]

A lot of it is me going back to my reads from yesterday and reevaluating with the flips we have now.

you think the entirety of the nacho wagon up until L-1 was town after reevaluation?

I didn't say this, what? I am looking at both Salsa slot and Bulge as scum who could have also been scum on wagon. I feel pretty strongly about my VFT, infinity and notty townreads

You are giving the reads about 30 seconds apart. It is very unclear what you are looking at, what spurs the statements, and what time you are spending processing them.

Ok? I never write out everything I'm thinking.

[SirCakez]

i guess i didn't realize salsa joined that wagon too

why does salsa slot in particular look worse after that flip

I'm thinking about how she spent so much time attacking DC but ended up on Nacho anyways

[SirCakez]

Well, to be very honest,

Nachomamma8

is still in my re-evaluation group cause I just can't sort him. But I also think, his wagon is the best bet for upcoming days atp.

UNVOTE: Disaster Cartel

VOTE: Nachomamma8

This vote especially looks bad
Like preemptively setting up for the townflip

[SirCakez]

hmm don't expect much from me tonight but I could vote nancho

VOTE: nacho

hammer range?

hmmmm

[SirCakez]

Cakez, there are two implications here. Both are bad.

One is that they're just fake reads from scum, split up to give the appearance of cognition.

The other is that you're not putting any thought into them at all.

Have you ever played with me before? Read my meta and come back.

[SirCakez]

Cakez, there are two implications here. Both are bad.

One is that they're just fake reads from scum, split up to give the appearance of cognition.

The other is that you're not putting any thought into them at all.

Have you ever played with me before? Read my meta and come back.

Yes. "I don't really think as town either" is not the defense you think it is.

This is an extremely stupid argument

[SirCakez]

it's more about at what point in the game day did she switch

because at some point someone's gotta declare a DC push as not viable for the day and move, regardless of alignment

Her vote seems like total fluffballs though
It wasn't like a "well i have to move for deadline"

[SirCakez]

Ok I trust you + notscience on this.

VOTE: Nacho

this i think has the same kind of energy to it as the salsa post you're referencing

Salsa did not have anyone actively poking her onto Nacho though

[SirCakez]

I think you're town and Salsa is pretty transparent, cakez whole trajectory is pretty disgusting, he makes posts with a lot of words and looks like he's solving but his conclusions are always so surface level and obvious

Lmao

[SirCakez]

even considering that potential point, i'm still keeping cakez at arm's length right now.

VOTE: Not Mafia

also
what the hell is this?

if Nacho flips scum then we have a great scum pool of (Mom, Peta, DC,

NM

) to work with

is somewhat problematic cogdis for me and doesn't allow for mara being town who didn't want to vote nacho

it's even worse considering this is essentially the scum pool cakez has anyway (or at least cakez is still scumreading all of these slots)

trajectory on mara in particular is very sloppy to me.

I don't understand what you mean.

[SirCakez]

I find it suspicious that NM is even showing up here
He didn't give a shit when he was perpetually on the table for miselim in Popcorn

[SirCakez]

Notsci going after me after BEGGING me to vote Nacho yesterday is ????

[SirCakez]

(1) I don’t think he’s tryharding compared to what he’s capable of and (2) isn’t your vote meant to be mine for the day?

What is NM even capable of? This is possibly the most I've ever seen out of him.

[SirCakez]

(1) I don’t think he’s tryharding compared to what he’s capable of and (2) isn’t your vote meant to be mine for the day?

What is NM even capable of? This is possibly the most I've ever seen out of him.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=84282

A quick ISO shows tons of shitposting there and little content so I'm not seeing this.

Do you think he's a brick left on a keyboard? Dude is smarter than both of us put together, he doesn't play but he's not a moron and it's unclear why him trying for 10 seconds, giving the most interaction-neutral reads he possibly can, is town indicative in the slightest.

I want to poweryeet this slot.

This depends on NM flip but I am liking Iverson here. Dude has good thoughts.

[SirCakez]

I have no idea who you are ftr but you do sound familiar

[SirCakez]

i think not_mafia actually posting real thoughts is scum-indicative for him ... like he posts more 'real' / less inane stuff when he's scum i'm p sure
the fact that the wagon is actually happening now but didn't really happen yesterday makes me think that if he's scum they're cool with bussing him now

mind meld

[SirCakez]

Be town or die

LMAO

[SirCakez]

even considering that potential point, i'm still keeping cakez at arm's length right now.

VOTE: Not Mafia

also
what the hell is this?

if Nacho flips scum then we have a great scum pool of (Mom, Peta, DC,

NM

) to work with

is somewhat problematic cogdis for me and doesn't allow for mara being town who didn't want to vote nacho

it's even worse considering this is essentially the scum pool cakez has anyway (or at least cakez is still scumreading all of these slots)

trajectory on mara in particular is very sloppy to me.

I don't understand what you mean.

to be more clear then:

if nm is scum to you why are you so affronted by her voting him?

what does nacho flipping town mean for your pool? it seemed like you were predicating a lot of your mom scumread on nacho also being scum (1516, 1517) and more in general that pool being scum around nacho being scum, but he flipped town and your reads are exactly the same and therefore i'm having a harder time seeing that thought process as legitimate

I SRed Mom independently of Nacho, Nacho being scum would have just been gravy
Peta flipping scum means that pool I had is not totally dead.

[SirCakez]

Cakez is just discrediting me because its really hard to get to a scumread on me and not just get jumped on, maybe if you kill like bork? Maybe?

Lol what? The only thing I've criticized you for is your SR on me for obvious reasons.

[SirCakez]

Threw shade

Criticized

discredit

tomato tomato

uh ok...

I would be very curious to hear more specifically why people think notscience is town.

NM cited tone, his tone was fine in Warehouse so I don't buy it.

Even though it was wrong, I felt his push on Nacho was town-motivated. I liked his earlier reach out to me.

I'm looking at the ISO of both games and trying to quantify it in a way that's easily understood

Essentially I felt like Cakez got this certain attitude midway through the day that I noticed in some of his play here as well. Part of it is his criticism in respect to myself (he did something similar there as well) and just his overall snark levels seem like a carbon copy of that game.

What game?

[SirCakez]

maybe scum are hard bussing NM to try to reset after yesterday?

[SirCakez]

I was town in legends so I'm not seeing your point?

[SirCakez]

ah it was from earlier in the game I see

[SirCakez]

cakes can you explain in more detail what led you to switch to voting nacho yesterday?

- lilith

notsci asked me to and I thought he was pretty town at the time, plus Nacho was making a bunch of arguments that aligned with my other scumreads. And I liked the wagon composition.

NM and Cakes are for sure my top two scum reads.

He's playing against me the exact same way he did against my slot in

JVS Shady tree game
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
And is showing similar play to boonietoons
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

And after that reiso I realized that he didn't even know that I had entered the game so him even saying that me being forgetable=scum!Mara is disingenuous

He was scum both those games, and both those games i caught him out.

I don't see this but okay

Peta was scum for the hammer plus his predecessor has meta history of lurking out as scum

If he hadn’t flipped I would have pushed it to hell and back today

Same

My question for you is: Can you, in your paraphrasing, describe why the vote on NM followed by the vote on Cakez made sense to notscience?

he said he ws going to sheep mena today on nm if nacho was town
nacho was town
he entered voting nm
nm wagon shot up and he unvoted upon it being declared e1 (not that it was, but it may have looked like it in the moment)
i don't know if i understand the motivation for the cakez vote per se so much as notsci was just looking for somewhere to place his vote
but i don't really have an issue with this sequence of events

I think this looks really suspicious if NM is scum

[SirCakez]

Some people have been saying the NM wagon was too easy; if that's so why are we seeing so much resistance and alternatives (like myself) being thrown up?

[SirCakez]

If N_M is town then things are kind of fucky but realistically I think it’s unlikely

Like he’s scummy for him comparatively and there’s also enough +town slots that he’s also just v likely scum via PoE

if he somehow is town then at least the scum flip we get from it should be v helpful

Overthinking this and dragging it out a million years is not gonna help at all

It’s still like (N_M, cakez) and then probably some combination of (bulge, mom, iverson, infinity) but again, if cakez + N_M are right then so long as scum is not literally just the townbloc the game is p much in auto

why is NM trying to get me elimmed if he is my buddy? I'm definitely in a better position than him if we are both scum from your POV.

Really don't like the Bulge wagon popping up randomly

[SirCakez]

It’s not even like bulge is town it’s just that if we’re wagoning a non-contenta slot the better one to do first is VERY CLEARLY the one that couldn’t get off the ground at all yesterday and that was used, partly, to get the susp train rolling on the only flipped town we have

I like this post and logic a lot.

Is skitt out of her scumrange?

PEdit: one is scummy by posting and PoE and one is only scummy by PoE? I don't get what's so difficult to understand here

I'm not sure who this was aimed at but I think Skitter is.

I've never fallen this far behind and not been uberstressed about it 24/7. if you're seeing changes it's cuz im making em

You can skip a lot of pages, not that much has happened

after the game apathied there’s now an attempt to wagon you instead which tbf i think is townled but I still feel more confident and realistically I think we’re doing one of you so if ur town you should really vote him

My q here is if the Bulge wagon is scum driven who are the scum driving it? Notsci?

[SirCakez]

why couldn't scum just have sat back and let town bury Nacho and then driven it home with the last few votes? we already know the hammer was scum

[SirCakez]

Really don't like the Bulge wagon popping up randomly

Who's scum on the bulge

that's what I'm wondering; see later in my post dump
I think it has to be notsci? I TR VFT and Infinity much more.

I honestly don't get why people are so confident NM is scum here and not bulge, has bulge done anything towny? It's making me more confident in my bulge vote if anything

I really liked his day 1; but there's no denying his posting today has been nothing.

I still think most of the people defending NM yesterday are town and the people pushing NM are much less so. The weirdest part is that the people pushing NM seem to agree and don't TR each other that strongly right?

I've liked DC and Iverson more lately.

[SirCakez]

I SR NM independently of POE

[SirCakez]

Ok why

because he is actively trying to not get limmed which I don't think he would do as town

[SirCakez]

Town: Kismet, Infinity, VFT
Townlean: Iverson
Null: DC, Bulge
Scumlean: notscience
Scum: NM, Mom

I think I'm here
I have too many townreads :////

[SirCakez]

mmmm it looks like Bulge probably has to be scum from my current POE if I'm not wrong on my TRs

[SirCakez]

mmmm it looks like Bulge probably has to be scum from my current POE if I'm not wrong on my TRs

Technically no but these are the lines I'm trying to get you to think along if town

I mean
I guess I'd elim Bulge but I just feel much better about NM

[SirCakez]

Can you walk me through the Momrangal scumread? I really liked the analysis/quotes from Kismet.

I think she has been better today but I thought her entrance yesterday was outrageously bad and unquestionably scummy. She showed no interest in solving or engaging anyone until some pressure built upon her. I think her response to my initial attacks on her was way too defensive. I also think she made posts that fit with scum!Peta (and Peta made posts fitting with scum!Mom). She doesn't even mention Peta in her entire ISO from yesterday.

[SirCakez]

This is a bit authoritarian of me but to incentivize a slowdown and show my displeasure with the current focus:

VOTE: The Bulge

This is E-2, AKA effective E-1

i don't particularly like this post.

can you elaborate? I thought it was decent

[SirCakez]

For anyone still curious, or in spite of those not, I am Prism.

OHHHHHHH
I knew you were familiar!

Man this is hard. Bulge's posts on page 90 just don't read scum to me at all. Way too genuine.
Infinity might have to be scum ://////
I will say that "anything I can do idk" comment was pinging me

[SirCakez]

why are you so worried about being killed here?

[SirCakez]

For anyone still curious, or in spite of those not, I am Prism.

OHHHHHHH
I knew you were familiar!

Man this is hard. Bulge's posts on page 90 just don't read scum to me at all. Way too genuine.
Infinity might have to be scum ://////
I will say that "anything I can do idk" comment was pinging me

I think that was actually towny for me

It's like, my most important job rn is to get townread and idk how to do that

it just felt tonally a little weird to me
like you were asking but wanted to make sure it didn't come off too strongly? hard to describe a ping

[SirCakez]

a lot of people in this game are spending way too much time on their own slot

who are these people? besides Mom

[SirCakez]

I mean it doesn't feel any different from other games
hell I do it in half my games when people are attacking me lol

[SirCakez]

what book is that

[SirCakez]

Still not seeing a reason to not yeet NM

[SirCakez]

Not sure if that’s sarcasm cakez, but it’s from Assassin’s Creed (the second one maybe?)

it wasn't I was genuinely curious

[SirCakez]

who are people, besides Bulge?

[SirCakez]

cuz if he hammer NM he can just catch up overnight while new stuff isn't being generated

[SirCakez]

who are people, besides Bulge?

Lilith, ydrasse, mom

my impression was the latter two were caught up but I guess I was wrong

[SirCakez]

I'm not sure I understand this infinity/bulge argument

[SirCakez]

Peta didn't want to point to examples because the townies were all transparently town and he didn't want to sow paranoia on a buddy.

my interpretation of this line is "peta didn't want to shake things up too much because the actual townies in the bloc were all transparently so, and he didn't want to risk blowing his partner's deep cover"

it doesn't make sense to say this at all if infinity doesn't think there is a partner in that bloc, regardless of any alternate theories she has given since then for why peta might have done that.

This makes sense to me actually. I think Bulge makes more sense here than Infinity.

[SirCakez]

I think scum are probably bussing (DC or Mom?) but I don't care enough about it, I want to see scum flipped

[SirCakez]

I don't like the bulge wagon

[SirCakez]

I’ll vote either and am following Bork

But unsubstantiated shade on both of the wagons while not suggesting an alternative is lolsy

I like the NM wagon I'm not shading both. I just think there are probably scum on board.

[SirCakez]

I’ll vote either and am following Bork

But unsubstantiated shade on both of the wagons while not suggesting an alternative is lolsy

I like the NM wagon I'm not shading both. I just think there are probably scum on board.

There's 4 scum so this is meaningless, more non-content from cakez

LMAO

[SirCakez]

so what's your point? your initial comment was pointless. i was responding to notsci asserting that I was shading both wagons and not offering an alternative and you come in here like "hurr durr meaningless comement"

[SirCakez]

comment* fuck I can spell

[SirCakez]

I think she has been better today but I thought her entrance yesterday was outrageously bad and unquestionably scummy. She showed no interest in solving or engaging anyone until some pressure built upon her. I think her response to my initial attacks on her was way too defensive. I also think she made posts that fit with scum!Peta (and Peta made posts fitting with scum!Mom). She doesn't even mention Peta in her entire ISO from yesterday.

I stated more than once that I thought pokehydra was town before they repped out so why would I talk about Peta?

because he posted a lot more then L&G and virtually everyone reevaluated once he was in?

[quote="In

I think scum is between flea, rock, nora, and vander with rock having the best chance of being town between those and fuck if I know for the other three. At least one there is wronf

this post is so bad it literally scumpools half the game in a micro

-cake

Let's throw a random quote from somewhere else in too

what is even wrong with that post lmao I'd have posted that that game as town too
totally nai

[SirCakez]

Also I think you using meta against me is wack because I don't think we have a game where I was town together before this one

[SirCakez]

IM SO MAD RIGHT NOW
FUCK

[SirCakez]

WE ARE ELIMMING ON BULGE WAGON TODAY

[SirCakez]

I have not been so frustrated with a game in a long time
I can't believe that we had scum NM locked down and it somehow got flipped to Bulge
FUCK

[SirCakez]

The Bulge (6): Venus Fly Trap, notscience, Infinity 324, Kismet, Disaster Cartel, Iverson

Notty and DC are scum
Maybe Infinity
Iverson is ???

[SirCakez]

Notscience's "oh I really fucked up that read" shtick is a sham

[SirCakez]

Actually Iverson could be scum
And I forgot about fucking Mom

[SirCakez]

Definitely notsci though

[SirCakez]

I mean maybe but you've had him as town most of the game and it's unclear to me why it is actively scum indicative over NAI

Because he's using it to excuse his shit pushes but then not actually following through with what he said he'd do if they flipped town
See: yesterday after Nacho flip

You watched me openly blitz the town wagon and are just now realizing I might be scum like ???

Cuz i thought you were town ish yesterday but your vote on me is ass and you're in a bad spot on the bulge wagon

[SirCakez]

I only feel good about Kismet and VFT..

[SirCakez]

I'm still thinking killing bulge is the move here. I am concerned about the wagon makeup, and that I'll make an ass out of myself again, but sometimes you have to take a shot

This looks terrible post-Bulge town flip

[SirCakez]

Can you explain how that thought process on me just evolved considering you had 60 hours of knowing I blitzed the Bulge wagon without really thinking about it until I voted your slot?

Because I didn't know Not Maf was for sure scum until day opened?

[SirCakez]

And i didn't actually have time to get in here until I made that "so frustrated" post

[SirCakez]

Infinity who is scum

[SirCakez]

Cakez you literally did nothing to force through a notmaf wagon where the fuck do you get off

I didn't force through the town counterwagon to scum
What kind of crap defense is this? "oh yeah you were bad too!" like no that's not how this works. You have pushed scummy-ass wagons two days in a row

[SirCakez]

VOTE: The Bulge

lmao peace nerds

still not seeing any town motivation behind this btw

[SirCakez]

It's probably notsci/iverson/(one of DC or Infinity)

[SirCakez]

And they are two wagons I would never in a million years push as scum

why not?

[SirCakez]

I find it suspicious that NM is even showing up here
He didn't give a shit when he was perpetually on the table for miselim in Popcorn

Some people have been saying the NM wagon was too easy; if that's so why are we seeing so much resistance and alternatives (like myself) being thrown up?

I SR NM independently of POE

Still not seeing a reason to not yeet NM

cuz if he hammer NM he can just catch up overnight while new stuff isn't being generated

I’ll vote either and am following Bork

But unsubstantiated shade on both of the wagons while not suggesting an alternative is lolsy

I like the NM wagon I'm not shading both. I just think there are probably scum on board.

notsci's really gonna pull the "he was not trying to elim NM" card?

[SirCakez]

VOTE: cakez

Meh wynaut

also I forgot about this shit