Mini 2206 - Deja Vu: Perpetual MELO IV - END!

[Disaster Cartel]

hi everyone!! :3

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

policying NM is my idea of a good time

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

no

VOTE: NM

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

policying NM is my idea of a good time

-Mena

Then take my heart and let's go on a magic carpet ride together.

Carry me daddy

[Disaster Cartel]

Eh, I don't like this vote.

y

[Disaster Cartel]

Bad vote >:(

Also y

-both Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

policy elims are bad. policy elims on NM are bad. policy elims on NM in this setup are bad. we should just kill the person we think is most likely to be scum.

- lilith

Have u literally forgotten JK9++ already? The game we nearly lost (should’ve lost) bc of not policy limming NM despite me saying repeatedly that we should do for like 3 days?

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

I stg if we have to have another conversation about policy limming and why it’s worth it I will put my face through my desk given the context

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

why does it matter

He’s scum or he isn’t, purely from rand it’s basically 50/50’and he’s not gonna play or be readable throughout the game?

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

O right, yeh I forgot which side u were on but my point still holds

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

Probably bc I slept like an hour and a half from 11 until after midnight and have spent most of the night losing in teamfight tactics

Also because I literally, like actually literally had to have this argument in JK9++, let it go, we got shitwagoned for the trouble and then NM was scum all along

Do u see why this is frustrating to have to run through again? Im not getting why the setup is so different that it’s not worth it

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

So we can just...ignore him. And lim the (other) scum. Idgi

If he is scum then the odds of limming scum go to like 4/10 if we just leave him alone and if he’s town then I p much guarantee scum will push for him in lylo esp if he quickhammers along the way and then it will be a pure gamble

I’m saying let’s get the busywork out of the way and then get on with the actual gsme. If he’s town, liability removed and we’re playing on slightly hard mode. If he’s scum, cool, free lim

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

Or we could let the game breathe and if we really can’t come up with a better option and need a deadline scramble then we decide to go there

I’m not saying we speed lim I’m saying that the only reason policy lims don’t work is bc people get attached to their pet SRs which most of the time aren’t any better than rand, and we should just play it safe and agree that we’re limming NM unless someone basically claims scum

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

I bet mena eats his vegetables before his starches

I mean, obviously yes?

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

Also, I will consult with ydra on avi choice and prob let her pick whatever she wants

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

according to skitt/infinity I was not in that game so I don't get why you're upset with me in particular about it.

also we have an avatar now.

- lilith

I mixed it up and just thought u were, my b

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

Because there literally is not apart from if it’s a once in a blue moon game where he actually does something he’s more likely town but even then it’s still close to a toss up

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

I don’t want this to end up dominating the thread so I’ll let it alone for a bit but begrudgingly

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

I have one tentative TR so fsr

[Disaster Cartel]

I'm not confident notsci is town, should I be?

Notsci is my one TR lol

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

Mena was hydra'ing with ydra the thing she messaged you about postgame of divide and conquer

That and she also proposed

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

Shocking, I know, but she said she doesn’t believe in gender norms or the 29th of February thing

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

I’m not TRing kismet

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

And would like u to elaborate on why u are tomorrow @skitt

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

he's lying, im too much of a damsel in distress to be the one that proposes

also this is way too much for me to want to read today, i've been spoiled by 20 pages of fun rvs games

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

I wasn’t pissed at you I was just a bit frustrated that EVERYONE was shooting it down

bc I have no baseline or any idea of who it is and that inherently makes me slightly +sus unless it’s hectic (which it apparently isn’t)

I’m not SRing them, I just feel uneasy with the slot

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

I expected to have to work for a skitt/mena townread

I mean you’re posting which seems like a reasonable basis to start from

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

Wait

I thought u just didn’t post when u were scum? Is this not a thing?

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

Like u did the same thing and just noped out here + in TM + in another of our games?

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

Here* is JK9++ idk why that translated weirdly in my head

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

I’ve only ever been in one team mafia

Jk9 I was low activity EVERYWHERE bc I was working so much

As for the last one I don’t know what other game it would be.

Okay nvm, I thought that every game I’d played with scum!you you’d basically just nope’d tf out of so you playing here even a bit was +town for you

If it’s not then uh, idk, I still kinda wanna townlean u for not just taking the read

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

good
Kismet
Salsabil Faria
Infinity 324

good?
notscience

bad
SirCakez
Leafeon and Glaceon (beeboy, Mistyx hydra)
Not_Mafia
Brave Heart Lion
Disaster Cartel (Menalque, Ydrasse hydra)
Venus Fly Trap (skitter30, lilith2013 hydra)
The Bulge

Are these tiered or not?

[Disaster Cartel]

I wasn’t pissed at you I was just a bit frustrated that EVERYONE was shooting it down

bc I have no baseline or any idea of who it is and that inherently makes me slightly +sus unless it’s hectic (which it apparently isn’t)

I’m not SRing them, I just feel uneasy with the slot

-Mena

not thrilled with this progression in that, uncharitably, i want to interpret it as:

mena: "hey skitter, are you up for me chipping away at that kismet townread?"
skitter: NO SALE
mena: <darn, better change tack on that and make it more just general paranoia about the fact that i don't know who i'm dealing with>

which like isn't a terrible angle in and of itself, but two things: 1) dunno why you single me out there if your read just boils down to "dunno spooky alt", and 2) you've taken the whole "i've tried nothing and am out of ideas" approach to reading me so far

only that’s not what happened? I wanted to know why skitt was TRing you bc you’re evidently experienced but I have no idea what your scumgame is like from a range of like FL to kerset

I singled you out bc u were the only one I didn’t get from skitt’s pov (infinity isn’t town either yet, but skitt generally slaps a read on her earlier than I will)

And like yeh, no shit I haven’t tried reading u yet, hence why i was surprised to see skitt professing a TR on a v unknown quality in a game where there’s like, reasonable incentive for scum to TR each other

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

I wasn’t pissed at you I was just a bit frustrated that EVERYONE was shooting it down

bc I have no baseline or any idea of who it is and that inherently makes me slightly +sus unless it’s hectic (which it apparently isn’t)

I’m not SRing them, I just feel uneasy with the slot

-Mena

not thrilled with this progression in that, uncharitably, i want to interpret it as:

mena: "hey skitter, are you up for me chipping away at that kismet townread?"
skitter: NO SALE
mena: <darn, better change tack on that and make it more just general paranoia about the fact that i don't know who i'm dealing with>

which like isn't a terrible angle in and of itself, but two things: 1) dunno why you single me out there if your read just boils down to "dunno spooky alt", and 2) you've taken the whole "i've tried nothing and am out of ideas" approach to reading me so far

only that’s not what happened? I wanted to know why skitt was TRing you bc you’re evidently experienced but I have no idea what your scumgame is like from a range of like FL to kerset

I singled you out bc u were the only one I didn’t get from skitt’s pov (infinity isn’t town either yet, but skitt generally slaps a read on her earlier than I will)

And like yeh, no shit I haven’t tried reading u yet, hence why i was surprised to see skitt professing a TR on a v unknown quality in a game where there’s like, reasonable incentive for scum to TR each other

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

Disaster Cartel is AWFUL

go on

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

In more detail than “yikes” and “seems fake”

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

I stg if we have to have another conversation about policy limming and why it’s worth it I will put my face through my desk given the context

-Mena

1 this post just doesn't make any sense as town. why is he so opposed to this conversation? it's not like the thread was getting blown up
2 the "put my face through desk" comment seems like a huge exaggeration

I have one tentative TR so fsr

3 he has no development of reads as stated

I'm not confident notsci is town, should I be?

Notsci is my one TR lol

-Mena

4 and notsci? doesn't make any sense

I wasn’t pissed at you I was just a bit frustrated that EVERYONE was shooting it down

bc I have no baseline or any idea of who it is and that inherently makes me slightly +sus unless it’s hectic (which it apparently isn’t)

I’m not SRing them, I just feel uneasy with the slot

-Mena

5 uneasy but not SRing is such a cop-out

I just really hate the posting around NM and notsci

(1) Did u read any of JK9++ while modding it? Or like, my hydra pt with skitts?

(2) yeah, sure, it is. why does that matter?

(3) bruh there were like 6 pages that I’d skimmed, what are you expecting from me at that point? Besides which, have you ever played with scum!mena before? Bc fabricating reads is not a weakness of my scumgame, especially not SRs

(4) does my entire conversation with notsci have any relevance regarding this..?

(5) see point (3), but like how is this anything other than NAI for me?

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

i'm aware i'm spinning this a bit because i think that might be the potential reason for scum to approach from that angle.

i wasn't really considering the point of you trying to force skitter to legitimize her read on me, and that's fair.

overall, i have a decent amount of content out there and i guess i am expecting at least some engagement on it though, but if your primary focus is on skitter at this point in time rather than me with that progression, that really does change my interpretation of your trajectory and i don't mind it as much.

im not sure what angle you mean? As in you think scum would be more likely to push you for being a secret alt?

yeh, you’re posting and I’ll get to u when I get to u, but for now I wanna try and sort people I’m familiar with and think I can reliably sort, then I’ll worry more about those I haven’t played w/ before

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

I stg if we have to have another conversation about policy limming and why it’s worth it I will put my face through my desk given the context

-Mena

1 this post just doesn't make any sense as town. why is he so opposed to this conversation? it's not like the thread was getting blown up
2 the "put my face through desk" comment seems like a huge exaggeration

I have one tentative TR so fsr

3 he has no development of reads as stated

I'm not confident notsci is town, should I be?

Notsci is my one TR lol

-Mena

4 and notsci? doesn't make any sense

I wasn’t pissed at you I was just a bit frustrated that EVERYONE was shooting it down

bc I have no baseline or any idea of who it is and that inherently makes me slightly +sus unless it’s hectic (which it apparently isn’t)

I’m not SRing them, I just feel uneasy with the slot

-Mena

5 uneasy but not SRing is such a cop-out

I just really hate the posting around NM and notsci

(1) Did u read any of JK9++ while modding it? Or like, my hydra pt with skitts?

(2) yeah, sure, it is. why does that matter?

(3) bruh there were like 6 pages that I’d skimmed, what are you expecting from me at that point? Besides which, have you ever played with scum!mena before? Bc fabricating reads is not a weakness of my scumgame, especially not SRs

(4) does my entire conversation with notsci have any relevance regarding this..?

(5) see point (3), but like how is this anything other than NAI for me?

-Mena

@cakez

[Disaster Cartel]

As a side note I’m a bit confused why those pro-notmaf haven’t brought up that them killing him d1 (assuming he’s scum) would be super low info. It’s always about “CANT LET HIM ESCAPE”

Like I don’t get why the focus is on removing “weak links” rather than limiting how much information actually goes out?

Bc we get info either way, and this way we’re 1/3 of the way to winning instead of scum being 1/3 of the way to winning

And like, we still get standard info from scum making a NK?

I’m not seeing how the info gain is so bad that it’s not worth it if he’s scum

[Disaster Cartel]

Are these tiered or not?

1 Tiered, yes. In order, no.

And like yeh, no shit I haven’t tried reading u yet, hence why i was surprised to see skitt professing a TR on a v unknown quality in a game where there’s like, reasonable incentive for scum to TR each other

I don't love this.
2 Kismet has put more into the game than anyone else - calling them an "unknown quantity" is silly. If you had specific things from kismet that bothered you, I'd feel differently. 3 Are you a player that's unable to make a read without having meta on someone?

(1) :rolleyes:

(2) This isn’t what I meant by “unknown quality”. I’m not saying they haven’t done anything this game, I’m saying that due to anon I don’t know whether they’re someone who’s good at convincingly faking town thought processes as scum or not, and not knowing that about them makes me wary about slapping down an early read. In the same way, your posting seems towny, esp the large post directed at cakez above, but we’ve played together like, one and a half times and I’m assuming you’re competent enough as scum to fake whatever you’ve done so far, so Im not TRing you.

(3) Following on from that, ofc I’m not incapable of reading people w/out meta but I (a) form reads faster when I’ve played with someone and (b) am typically more confident in my reads on people I’ve played with a bunch, *especially* when I know that person is strong/experienced, all of which I think is v normal

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

if he's town, he's probably going to be flipbait, sure
but that also means that 'in a game with an absolutely massive scumteam' and he's town there's goign to be a lot of scum trying to drive us towards him, no? like why are you not just scum trying to get that easy flip ...
also in this setup it's not a sure thing that he needs to get flipped anyways as either alignmenet so i'm not sure why you're presenting this as inevitable. also i don't think he always gets misflipped as town

Because if there is an incredibly bait slot it’s generally better to have that slot removed earlier rather than later

Like, flipping NM in JK9++ was basically just rolling the die, he could very easily have been town that game and then it would have been a scum win. And the longer that you leave a policy lim, the less likely it is to ever happen before lylo, which is part of the entire point of policy limming, because (and we now have confirmation that I was right about this from JK9++) it gets harder not easier to policy someone after D1

If he’s town, and either of nacho or me are scum, how is it worth it to try and get the lim today? Instead of just shutting the fuck up, targeting elsewhere, and then going after NM for not doing anything and potentially having quickhammered in lylo

I think if anything the resistance to doing NM today for what I think are very weak reasons is +scum for him, bc scum have an incentive to not bus this setup

[Disaster Cartel]

Cakez i can see ur online, respond to me

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

hiiii infinity !!

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

:3

is there anything you think i should look at when i’m home? i haven’t really done more than skimmed this game so far

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

ok ok

i should proooobably talk to mena at some point about this game too but i wanna go in on my own first because i’m CLEARLY the better reader out of the two of us

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

1. Some of it. Like I've said a few times now I got busy and didn't really pay attention to the tail end.
2. It's too dramatic. Like you're fishing for townreads for your "frustration"
3. I cannot recall a time I have. It just doesn't add up for me because you seem to be fairly engaged but you haven't really put much together.
4. I just don't understand why you are TRing him. But this is not really a point for me SRing you.
5. I always find it scummy when people do this.

(1) okay, but this didn’t really happen at the tail end, it was more of a D1/D2 thing which is why I’m surprised you don’t remember
(2) cakez, we’ve played before, how is me being dramatic AI to you? Hyperbole is exactly within my ballpark as both alignments
(3 & 4) firstly,, I’m not that engaged rn (I’m a lil burned out from how high intensity I was in the micro that just finished), and secondly, his is a feature of the setup? Like I’m aware there’s an unusually high concentration of scum in this game + there’s a decent number of new faces to me, so I’m taking more time bc if I can get, like, 3 solid TRs say, I have a very good % chance of hitting scum. I thought notsci was one of the players who just won’t bother as scum, hence him doing... anything was towny. It turns out that’s not right, but I still think he’s leaning town bc of the fact that he didn’t just take the free townread
(5) okay, so then is it actually scum indicative for me or not in your opinion?

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

i should proooobably talk to mena at some point about this game too

I mean we’ve been talking to each other a lot in the scum pt just not in the hydra pt?

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

Oh, u meant we should talk together here, gotcha gotcha

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

i’m flaming you that’s what i’m doing!!!!

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

(1) :rolleyes:

is this a rolleyes because you think you got a nonanswer here (the answer made sense to me)
or is it a rolleyes because you think you should be higher?

nonanswer, I agree with like, whoever it was that said I haven’t been particularly towny yet

I’m gonna let ydrasse do the obvtowning for our slot probably

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

i’m flaming you that’s what i’m doing!!!!

- ydra

See, this is the toxicity I was talking about the other day! (Okay but actually let’s talk in hydra pt, I don’t wanna make the game unbearable for everyone else lol)

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

mena how does skitter look to you in the 13-14 range?

The 13-14 range? Not following

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

okay fine i’ll go there but you won’t get content until i’m home,

and this avatar is me cannibalizing you (the weaker hydra partner) for strength

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

This is a pretty ballsy post if this hydra is scum. My feeling is that Misty is less likely to draw attention to beeboy's absence if they are scum together.

Ehh maybe if she doesn't think anyone in the game knows beeboy? Idk this is pretty weak. Tbf beeboy has posted since then but still no real reads so

I doubt that, I think multiple of us here have all played together before?

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

I think in a game where a bunch of people know each other the game becomes less about who is charismatic/town-looking enough to avoid the elim and more about who can give town the most doubts as to whether they are scum. By virtue of being unreadable NM is pretty good at the latter

idgi how are those two things not the same? like the people who are most towny looking are surely also the ones you have the most doubts about being scum?

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

I doubt that, I think multiple of us here have all played together before?

You doubt that no one here knows beeboy, or that mistyx would think that no one here knows beeboy

..the latter? haven’t like half the PL played with beeboy? I’m p sure that regardless of alignment they’d prob have talked about their experience with the rest of the list

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

Also happy bday!

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

VOTE: leafy and glacey

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

idgi how are those two things not the same? like the people who are most towny looking are surely also the ones you have the most doubts about being scum?

NM is a perfect example of why it's not, they will never look towny but you will always have doubts about whether they are scum

Nacho looks relatively towny from an Objective Standpoint^TM but I don't have that many doubts about him being scum

are you saying you SR nacho or nah?

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

Like yes, I may have doubts about whether NM is scum because he never does anything

But if you ask me to choose between someone who looks town and someone who I just don’t know if they’re scum, I’d rather lim the one who doesn’t look town like 99.99% of the time or something

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

I feel like that’s not what you’re saying bc it seems nonsensical to me but I really don’t get the point you’re trying to make if it’s not that

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

(1) :rolleyes:

<snip>

These responses make sense, thanks for the clarification.

Welcome

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

I would also love to hear thoughts on my point that I think scum are bus!disincentivised unless in a lot of trouble, and the fact that there seems to be no appetite for NM is therefore +scum

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

That’s @thread i guess

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

are you saying you SR nacho or nah?

Yeah I do. Basically if someone has a strong scumgame they can still be >rand scum on play whereas NM can't unless you're notsci I guess. This may just be something we fundamentally disagree on though

PEdit: maybe? I think a lot of the people defending NM are towny

this just doesn’t make any sense

like if someone is being actively towny, even if you also are aware that they can play scum, how are they more likely than rand to be scum than the do nothing slot?

And okay, who is towny of the people defending NM and why?

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

how are they more likely than rand to be scum than the do nothing slot?

I don't understand this question. The assumption is that NM is always gonna be =rand scum (I disagree, but w/e)

If you have a scumread on a player, and if you have any faith in your reads at all, that player is >rand scum. Maybe they're playing towny in an objective sense but that doesn't matter because you know they would as either alignment.

VFT and kismet are towny, so is salsa somewhat. I forget who else was defending NM

I mean in this game specifically NM has a 45% chance of being scum, which is the assumption I’m making

This is the problem tho, unless your reads are like, very good, then *you individually* are not probably doing any/much better than rand, ESPECIALLY when, like here, rand!scum chance is super super high. By all means, if you have strong SRs on enough of the PL then sure, maybe NM is town. But with each TR you get, according to your own logic the %chance of NM scum goes super high

And you didn’t answer the second part, which is why are VFT/kismet/salsa towny?

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

I would also love to hear thoughts on my point that I think scum are bus!disincentivised unless in a lot of trouble, and the fact that there seems to be no appetite for NM is therefore +scum

1 I think it's a fundamentally weak point because it requires that scum came into the game in this headspace and you have no way of testing that assertion
it also relies partially on the alignments of the people pushing n_m so it's something to maybe come back to d2+ at best for me
and mostly....2 there's just no need to use this as a crutch in lieu of like....getting reads and shit like normal which i kiiiiiiinda feel you've been doing the whole game

(1) I don’t take your point, scum are likely to approach setups differently depending on the specifics of the setup. If there’s a setup which disincentivises bussing, it’s logical to assume that scum are less likely to bus and vice versa. So unless you disagree with the setup disincentivising bussing, i don’t get why this is a wrong approach

(2) aka what I’ve been doing so far? Like where am I avoiding getting reads and shit like normal?

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

VOTE: DC

i am, at this point, sufficiently tweaked out by DC having a post count that is the size of mine with basically nothing worth a shit other than "notscience is posting so i guess he's town" and a whole bunch of n_m theorytalk in it

This is just a misrep and is also conveniently ignoring the context of the game

Explain how (1) my post count is relevant here (2) my being hesitant on TRs is scummy (3) how my engagement with infinity, cakez, you, and vote on leafy/glacey is “N_M” theory talk and not sorting?

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

Seems hella convenient that you’re sussing me when I’m like the only one who hasn’t been happy to rubberstamp you as town, kismet!

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

Mena what are your reads?

Tentatively

Notsci — town
Nacho

VFT — lean town
Infinity

BHL — null
Salsa
NM
Bulge

Kismet — lean scum
Cakez
Leafy/glacey

This is without ydra’s input tho, we’ll try to get a unified list up when she’s around later

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

Explain how (1) my post count is relevant here (2) my being hesitant on TRs is scummy (3) how my engagement with infinity, cakez, you, and vote on leafy/glacey is “N_M” theory talk and not sorting?

it's relevant from a signal/noise ratio - you're here often, but any time you're here i don't see a lot of analysis on anything but n_m and that worries me because it's a really easy thing to talk about because ultimately it boils down to a philosophy and not anything related to alignments this game
i never said being hesistant on TRs is scummy, i just don't see the process or many even attempts at conclusions yet

I’m not here often, I just post a lot when I am and making an issue of that when there were like 10 posts earlier of me /talking to my other head/ means that using that to try and argue that there’s a lot of noise to signal just... doesn’t really make sense? Have we played together before on your main?

the whole point of being slower this game is that I’m not firming up conclusions until I feel more strongly about things. That doesn’t mean I’m not forming reads and I have like no idea what u mean by “you can’t see the process”. Like what are you expecting me to be doing that would show my process for reading people? Just doesn’t make sense

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

like is that really your argument? "shit i got that 10 out of 11 townreads (or somewhere in that vein), but fuck, DANGER ZONE, better play defense"

It’s literally what I did in a scumgame the other day where I was UTR other than one person and decide to take them down because they were the only person with good reads

[Disaster Cartel]

Have we played together before on your main

barely and i was scum anyway

Unless this is a lie it’s not Bell

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

Also I don’t really understand why bussing is disincentivized in this setup?

bc of the “lim a scumplayer after a townflip” thing. If u bus then yes you get cred, but you can bus a maximum of twice before you’re on the verge of losing, and then if you were like a main pusher of scum and you’re not dead for like 2 consecutive days that’s... very sus

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

Oh it’s bork

[Disaster Cartel]

That doesn’t mean I’m not forming reads and I have like no idea what u mean by “you can’t see the process”

i mean i can't. before you posted that read list i had no idea how you felt about anything or how you were attempting to get there. it's why i tried to engage you about skitter - i liked the content in the p13-14 range and i wanted to see if you felt the same, but i feel like you're retreating into the safe place of just talking theory about why getting rid of n_m is good or bad and i that is worrying to me.

I asked you what you meant by 13–14 and if you answered I didn’t see it

I’ll take a look but basically I’m not planning to try and read skitt this game, I’m planning to read lili, but I’m waiting for her to be online at the same time as me

Skitt herself is like... I normally townbin her D1 but I’m not doing so here because of the weird ratio. I feel like she’s not particularly playing to an agenda, although her defending NM has been twigging me slightly as has her lack of paranoia on me and early townlean

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

Game aside, that cat is adorable

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

My vote is staying on leafy/glacey until I see like, anything from beeboy but I’ll bear in mind what you’re saying

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

I asked you what you meant by 13–14 and if you answered I didn’t see it

i clarified that i meant 13-14 were pages

I missed this

[Disaster Cartel]

Also mena y r u playing around me ?

Do you mean why am I not trying to read you or something else?

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

Notsci — town
Nacho

VFT — lean town
Infinity

BHL — null
Salsa
NM
Bulge

Kismet — lean scum
Cakez
Leafy/glacey

i mean i basically feel like i have to ask "why" on every name here other than noddy and anything in your null range, although i guess your "why" on me so far is that i'm OMGUSing you for not explicitly townreading me before that point

which is, by the way, an ass reason

whereas with nacho’s readslist you just had this shot of divine insight as to why every name was in the position it was?

and no, my why on you is partially that, but moreso because I think your SR on me seems fabricated or like it’s at the very least treating me with bad faith

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

What’s your read on us leafy?

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

Nacho why are we so low in your reads

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

whereas with nacho’s readslist you just had this shot of divine insight as to why every name was in the position it was?

did i ever say this?
am i calling nacho town?

i see some progressions from nacho just in short term memory w/o having to look at the thread on vft, l&g, noddy, cakez. that's not to say i completely understand or agree w/ them all, but that's a harder problem to solve.

that’s not my point, my point is that you apparently had no problem with there not being an explanation tacked onto every read when nacho did it but when I did it needed to be pointed out

I don’t see how there’s any difference between the progressions nacho has had and my own

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

(1) :rolleyes:

is this a rolleyes because you think you got a nonanswer here (the answer made sense to me)
or is it a rolleyes because you think you should be higher?

nonanswer,

I agree with like, whoever it was that said I haven’t been particularly towny yet

I’m gonna let ydrasse do the obvtowning for our slot probably

-Mena

Nacho why are we so low in your reads

-Mena

meanwhile in cogdis land (that i expect to get picked apart semantically for mentioning)

nice pre-emptive shade!

My not thinking it makes sense that I should be townread in general =/= I don’t think nacho shouldn’t be townreading me more and find it kinda weird he isn’t given that I’ve been on a similar trajectory to him but also, importantly, have gotten there on some things before him (like voting leafy). Given that I can’t just be sheeping him bc of that, I find it weird that someone who’s coming to the game from a v similar viewpoint in many ways, he doesn’t see as town

[Disaster Cartel]

Why do u SR me infinity?

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

Actually I don’t think PoE is a terrible idea in this setup, that was kinda what I was getting at with the whole “of you can find 3 solid TRs” thing

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

beeboy doing the thing he does as scum in a game w higher rates to roll it probably means the slot is just scum :>

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

this is weird to me, like yes we might all decide that he's the best compromise wagon today or some day or whatever, but in general i feel like we can do better, esp. on day1, esp since he just abt never has any useful interactions to sort other people with.
if we just do this early on and he's town and we flip him we just let scum jettison their weakest player, and if he's scum and we flip him we just lose our strongest player
(and honestly in most universes depending on who the scumteam is that's like ... my slot or yours)
so like

I mean if something better comes up I'm all for it but as for right now we know that we're taking an L on Not_Mafia if town eventually (maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but eventually) - if he's mafia then we have one shot and one shot only to kill him and that's right this second.

If he flips town it sucks, but if we flip any town day 1 it sucks same as usual so I don't necessarily understand the point you're making here.

And if I'm the strongest town player then we're already screwed sooo...

(im just gonna use w/e i quote as catchup to dump my thoughts into it so sorry if things are answered down the line but i simply dont care!!)

im not having the gutpings that i have when i play with skitter and i dont know if thats familiarity with her finally or she's being townier than usual, i think i've only caught her before as scum by the people around her/circumstances (divide and conquer especially) rather than through what she's posting/saying herself and otherwise usually think she feels scummy for reasons i usually can't say beyond gut so im ?? that theyre not here this time but happy (???)(read: i'm smiling and nodding while hoping this isn't the game i'm gonna get especially rolled by her)

and i quoted this post because... isn't it worse to flip nm based on policy as town than other town players who we would have to wagon? and i dont understand why we couldnt just kill him another day and why it has to be today

(i sympathize with mena wanting to kill him more probably because i know he was frustrated over nm not being elimmed in a previous game so this is probably hypocritical of me to judge the reasoning here and not yours nacho but yeah) i know it's long past but i don't think throwing everything down on nm early on is a good move and hes more like, "okay poe says he might be scum so now we should maybe do this" for me. i also have no clue how to read him and the only time i have played with him i was scum and tried to get him killed as an easy elim sooooo yeah

[Disaster Cartel]

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

tbh I'm kind of thinking scum!nacho is getting his buddy NM out of the way so that he can direct a nightkill onto a townie of his choice rather than only being able to kill a miselim-able townie during the day.

- lilith

this is a very succinct version of my thoughts on nacho so far!! i didnt like how he was trying to like... pointfarm nm and i know nacho was saying like "if nm flips scum" etc etc but it felt like so far that nacho almost... knows nm will flip scum? there's confidence in how he posts about it and like, this plan is basically to try and farm up some towncred and then reaping the rewards after knowing that it'll probably be easy to do this? i dont think nm ever obvtowns in a game so it makes this more believable/easy to execute?

[Disaster Cartel]

well, i could think of ONE change,

CHECK YOUR DAMN MESSAGES

This is what I was asking mena about

oh i remember i was around for this! was there a reason why you were asking about this infinity for game stuff or just curious? o:

[Disaster Cartel]

(also, so far from reading i think infinity is town based on past experiences, i don't feel like this is set in stone for me but it's not like the game where she was scum and it felt like... obvious. but that might just be the nature of that game being more stressful but idc!! town infinity)

- these are all ydra

p-edit: oh ok!! i was like ??? does this mean something as a read LMFAO

[Disaster Cartel]

also i am glad to see that my partner did not play after telling me he would

~leaf

good
Kismet
Salsabil Faria
Infinity 324

good?
notscience

bad
SirCakez
Leafeon and Glaceon (beeboy, Mistyx hydra)
Not_Mafia
Brave Heart Lion
Disaster Cartel (Menalque, Ydrasse hydra)
Venus Fly Trap (skitter30, lilith2013 hydra)
The Bulge

so at first thought i was like oh, nacho's reads are like... fine, but i i think that it's more because i like the townreads than i do everything else; i don't agree with vft being scum, he's wrong on our slot, so that's like... does nacho bus the entire team if he's scum? i don't know who i'd be wrong on so far in my townreads

(kismet, infinity, vft) as town right now strongest for me; salsa is weakest because i think tonally they sound wholesome and that worked last time i tried to read them off of it but it's not based in anything really content-y yet), kismet i guess i'm reading more off of "this person sounds very reasonable and logical and I Agree" because it also is going a bit over my head admittedly without like... as many people that i know in this game to try and read more off of vibe sound but i don't feel good thinking about kismet being scum either, so far

so that's like what... from here it'd have to be (nacho, nm (these two are always paired i think if scum?), maybe leaf/glace, ??), idk, maybe i'm putting too much stock into an early game reads list and trying too hard but bleh, i don't know if nacho being scum makes sense so far or if i am doubting what i've felt

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

oh i didn't mean to quote that post still but uhhhh

if i had to policy based off of the posts as of that one l+g quote it wouldn't be nm

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

Done reading. Disaster Cartel is AWFUL and I do not want to move my vote. Nacho is also just ??????? leaning towards scum. All of the hydras are not good actually.

this might seem like a dumb thing to point out but why didn't you say you weren't crazy about our slot in your small list of reads? or had you just not read us at that point? bc i feel like if you think we're that awful we would have been a slot you weren't that crazy about

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

(why did i decide to catch up like this someone pull the trigger on me!!!)

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

Like I'm not disputing nacho has been weird because he has and this not_maf business in general is dumb

but I'm a little concerned that you didn't look at that reads list and go "How does my view of the game line up with this" because I think that's a fairly common core town-thought to have. Like yeah, maybe I'm off on your perspectives but not even trying to reconcile that with your reads is concerning.

The reads are similar but I can't reconcile Nacho's play so far this game with mine. Frankly I'm very surprised that our reads are so similar (I didn't notice this during my catchup) because when I read Nacho's posts they feel totally alien to me.

i sympathize with this honestly though i think that notsci is +towny for pointing out the dissonance regardless bc i felt the same exact way

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

i reached the halfway point despite getting distracted 100 times WOOO!!!

breaktime

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

oh!

Spoiler:

i felt bad about not being around earlygame when mena was honestly even though i know i shouldn't because it's just mafia, but i invited him to hydra with me and i feel like... i should play better / more "serious" than i normally when it comes to like, not shitposting because there's someone else in the slot with me who i'm responsible for so it means that i'm trying to put more thought into the things i say rather than just "idk vibes lol lol", and doing ti with stuff that's already past is awkward bc they're topics already gone and i'm like... i feel i need to say More than i normally would i guess? because these are things i'm revisiting and people have already spoken about. i wanna be useful basically but catchup makes it uniquely difficult and i kinda hate it

i hope this makes sense

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

as for the townreads, does it mean that town's just... finding each other? because i think this setup means that scum /don't/ want that block forming for obvious reasons especially compared to other games and i think it would be more disrupted right now than it is in an effort to avoid that

maybe i feel this way bc i share the townreads but yeah

[Disaster Cartel]

i'm bad at signing AHHHHHHHH

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

and infinity don't you even dare i READ you like a book that one game...

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

i think that once i like, finish getting myself up to speed that things will be a lot different bc i won't be slogging through old stuff, i do a lot better in the moment i think than going back to read things? i hate explaining my thoughts in general

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

so when that time comes, you will realize.

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

...no no, i can read you >:(

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

ugh

but like the thing is is that i've already done half of it and giving up is like... euuuuugh

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

hey this is MINE

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

do not tempt me from my path demons (keep doing it)

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

okay fine WHATEVER you guys win... tch

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

okay i actually feel better about being here now that i don't have the existential dread of reading another 15 pages looming over me who's here to RUMBLE

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

i mean you literally made a whole thing about saying the exact opposite last week, remember?
lol

The way I played this game is much more in my scumrange than the way I played divide and conquer, that game I got really aggressive really early and that own required more real-time interaction. I still would probably have a hard time faking my conviction here though

Who do you want to kill. point the gun infinity point it at everyone you think is scum right now and stick to it for the rest of this game

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

you actually sound more like yourself now tbh

~ skitter

i feel like a houseplant where if you don't keep it in exact conditions it immediately dies

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

or a little shaking chihuahua

mena is the unfortunate owner who bought a chihuahua for some reason and now he loathes it because he's stuck with it. this is a metaphor for this game

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

i haven’t actually read what he posted, i gave up being useful tonight after i abandoned my catch up. that comment was just a silly one!!

also i feel weird moving my vote when i’m on a hydra and idk why, feels like i’m being rude so i’ll ask mena about it

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

i should be asleep but i skimmed, and i actually like 523/524, i feel like... that sort of read on infinity’s psyche is ablot harder to fake as scum than it is to talk about the contents of the reads themselves. at least i don’t think i would go down that path?

to be honest i wanted to be lazy and read beeboy off of activity because i was in that dance game he mentioned too and saw his inaction in action :>

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

i’ll go back and look at the interactions with infinity tomorrow but i feel like there’s actual substance to the townread there, if it was the other head interacting w her then maybe beeboy felt like he needed to justify their read with something better? but i don’t actually think that makes sense for that sort of townread

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

they forced me at gunpoint to stop my catchup

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

i don’t think they dragged me back frankly and i didn’t really resist it (my protesting was the fun sort) because i do dislike that style of play but i dislike giving up halfway too

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

oh it’s the strongest mischaracterization

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

*peeks head in*

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

hi infinity!!

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

oh god so many words

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

i will!! i miss him being here too :<

- ydra

oopsie

[Disaster Cartel]

Ydrasse what do you believe in most this game?

probably you/kismet town? i don't have a really... good grasp on what's happening this game all things considered and i haven't gotten to talk to mena like, much at all about it so i'm kind of floating right now

the scumreads i do have have things that make me not sure about them (mainly lg + nacho) actually being scum but i don't know what the game is if they aren't?

i have some thoughts about nacho mainly moreso than lg because lg gave me like... one good thing from them but i am also in a tft game right now so they'll come after

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

@ydra Talk to mena about nacho for me

Nacho keeps posting stuff that pings me and I'm at the point where he's just always going to be my preferred elim for today so yeah

i willlll if he ever comes back :>

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

youre forgetting someone in your townreads aha...

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

):<

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

ahhhh

nacho, do you have anything you want me to look at/read over when i’m home later? or if we’re both online later we can talk then too?

i like... i still have the weird dissonance from before but i want to at least talk to you bc you’re putting in a fuckton of effort right now and after thinking... it doesn’t make sense to dislike your slot but like your reads i think? if that makes sense, like there’s something wrong but idk!!!

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

off the top of my head i can tell you that there was one read i thought felt towny from l+g (actually from beeboy which like, with his meta surprised me that he was that... idk the word, intuitive maybe despite not being around?), and early on i felt a lot of my thoughts aligning with vft as well, alongside a lack of ~bad vibes~ i generally get which made me feel good townbinning them, but i’ll reread both

the other two though don’t have... a lot of content thought to them, nm theory talk mostly for him and tone for salsa but i can provide more when i actually read their isos since they’re small

it’ll be a few hours so whenever i am around tonight i’ll give Thoughts. i’d honestly feel really bad if you were town and like, idk, didn’t get to interact with some good faith? maybe i’m assuming too much abt everyone’s reads on you but yeah

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

sorry, presence spotty bc of irl things, am here a little bit if anyone wants to chat but idk about what right now

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

notscience

hasn't made a huge splash in the game so far, but I would probably be suspicious if he was putting himself front and centre trying to keep a hold on the reins of the game. most of what he's done so far is reach out to familiar players, and present theories and takes as non-sequiturs, all par for the course.

I'm not a big fan of his nacho case.

I think town notty would be more likely to want to assume a more assertive role in the town, but that could be affected by playerlist. I think with fewer players who know him, notty would feel more comfortable and free to break from his usual posting style. most of what he's done so far is give reads and push suspicions. I don't like the way he throws his vote around. I would expect town notty to be a little more meek in a way. he hasn't done much apart from replying to direct questions, and asking his own, but he only follows up in the moment and rarely comes back to past conversations. however, I do appreciate the consistency with which he maintains his lines of questioning ever after a lilt in discussion.

The wall on nacho is pretty convincing

. notty hasn't done anything this game except throw down votes and vibe with his friends. If he were scum I think he'd see an opportunity in this setup to take more control of the game's trajectory. I don't think we need to worry about this slot, but I have my eye on him.

okay i just want to clear up bulge: are you talking about two separate things (that i bolded) because you're saying you're not a big fan of the case and then you're like, actually it's convincing and that makes no sense to me

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

the reason i want to actually interact with nacho more is because i feel like he's at the center of things right now in a way that like... the sheer amount of effort that he's putting in to me feels like he's trying his hardest as town? this is a dumb thing that i don't know how to explain well but he's trying and despite like, everyone and their mother saying "no, scum" he's still doing it and i don't get why he does this as scum?

i think kismet? mentioned like, the bar of effort to be townread but i disagree that he's like, trying to arbitrarily post enough to get the pass for today because that's just dumb especially if the content he's spewing out for us becomes useful to comb through if he's flipped. also i just feel bad for him because it feels like he's getting shut down by everyone

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

ydra what are your thoughts on vft
what are your thoughts on me

i jus got on here a tiny bit ago and haven't read the stuff between you and vft, just the bulge stuff bc kismet asked

but i did just say how im viewing your slot right now!

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

also tbh it's... kinda daunting for me to go through all that stuff and i feel like i'm too dumb sometimes to say a lot about these like, back and forths people have in a list like this lmao

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

yeah, i get that... i've definitely gotten really emotional before when i was town and no one was like... listening (despite me being RIGHT like, fairly early on only to be shut down for a while)

so even if you're scum like... win win, doubly so if you are town

what's your case for vft!scum, nacho, or do you still think they are? is it the push on you explicitly or what other things are included in there? i'm skimming over them because i cannot be fucked to like, quote and break down but they seem... like. reasonable. nothing really grabs me except the infinity scumread and i suppose them like... pairing cakez/you into this Thing but there's context i'm missing there i think, but that might be because that's the exact sort of thing i'd say if i was scum and have before, LMAO

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

also tbh it's... kinda daunting for me to go through all that stuff and i feel like i'm too dumb sometimes to say a lot about these like, back and forths people have in a list like this lmao

- ydra

i don't really need you to dissect walls or big ol' back and forths

i'm just looking for stuff you have on these players like what's your previous experience with skitter/lilith does anything that they're doing jump out at you for any reason and why

well, for experience i've played with skitter (i think ive said this before), and really only caught her through like... circumstances? last game, it was because of how the groups (2 neighborhood game) were divided and where she was, and the other one was through some like... weird interactions that made me paranoid while she was alive, in general i get weird pings from her prior and this game they're not around which i don't know is just from familiarity or like... being town? i don't want this to be the Game where i say fuck it to my gut and be wrogn though lmfao

lilith feels better between the two personally, i don't think i've played with her before in a game but like, if i'm going off of straight Vibes she resonates more with me as going through things and trying to figure it out

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

no you silly goose

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

i town

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

yeah, i get that... i've definitely gotten really emotional before when i was town and no one was like... listening (despite me being RIGHT like, fairly early on only to be shut down for a while)

so even if you're scum like... win win, doubly so if you are town

what's your case for vft!scum, nacho, or do you still think they are? is it the push on you explicitly or what other things are included in there? i'm skimming over them because i cannot be fucked to like, quote and break down but they seem... like. reasonable. nothing really grabs me except the infinity scumread and i suppose them like... pairing cakez/you into this Thing but there's context i'm missing there i think, but that might be because that's the exact sort of thing i'd say if i was scum and have before, LMAO

- ydra

i don't think they are

i'm working on a readslist now but right now my strong reads are L&G, Mom, and Bulge scum with Kismet, Cakez, Infinity, and Notsci as strong town. If that's right then I have to find 2 scum in the following:

VFT
Salsa
Not Mafia
you

Right now I'm thinking that the two scum out of that group are you and Not_Mafia but if I'm wrong (as I'd like to believe right now) then that means A) I'm either wrong on one of VFT or Salsa or the scarier but harder to believe B) I'm wrong on one of Notkiscakestoinfinity

so going through that list alone

i'm having a hard time getting to scum!vft as it is
salsa is like... i'm going to read this slot through tone once they get back, more than anything, i know they're newer but it's frustrating to not hve a lot to go off of skimming what they do have, it's slightly towny but it's like... nothing at the same time and i'm not gonna double down on that
same with n_m who is absolute null for me
and then im town lol

i can see bulge maybe, there were some things in the wall that pinged me/seemed like... i don't have too much familiarity with bulge's play but it felt foreign to me and without a whole lot of like.. i dunno. they're writing things but i don't know if they believe in them, sort of thing? like it's writing a high school essay where you're just churning out things because you have to and it's sound enough but you're just going to pass. idk if this analogy makes sense, but that's the vibe i got from that... l+g i need to revisit but eeeee work, i think that they're more than likely scum though just btwn activity + comparing to the peopel who are more active and i can get yelled at for going for ~meta~ but when you've seen it work repeatedly, and harshly, youre going to believe in it more lmfao

i havent read much of mom yet at all and dont remember what i did... i feel okay about infinity to townbin/not lim, not as strong as i want to but enough for today... i should reread notsci/kismet/cakez because i feel like (at leat for the first two from what i remember) i sort of just... saw a bunch of familiarity of play and zoned out going through it because it wasn't doing anything from me, the ~vibes~ have been there but not like... solid logic/content, the only person i feel good saying that about right now is kismet, and i wouldnt lim there today at all

i feel the strongest currently, without like checking everything else, limming l+g? having one thing that i like from them really like.. enough to sway me away i think, even if i think it's a clever read to make i have something a lot stronger to believe makes them scum

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

i think that l+g / bulge? is a good start to vote in today, i should read through the bulge in full before i start going for that bc i'd feel dumb finding the thing that makes me go "oh are you town lmao"

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

oh, i think i just understood why nm if scum needs to die first

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

if i did before it was lost in my brainwaves until just now. huh.

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

I’m around if you want to interact snd read me.

hi hello what's up and on your mind

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

i don't get why he does this as scum?

you don't?

it's to

not die

i mean like, duh yeah

that

but also it would feel really futile to me to try to do that i guess so i would just... not go to those lengths approaching death throes

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

it's more of like

not like why does he do it but like. /why/

i don't think that makes sense but watever

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

i know you're not going to like to hear my answer of meta, but meta. i'm being lazy but i think that if i went thru their iso i could probably case it as scum frankly

cakez has been kinda off my radar this entire time so let me skim

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

oh it's all coming back to me now

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

cakez /could/ be scum but i think it's a lot more likely if lg/mom are scum and he's just bussing, i'm a little meh on the mom reasoning/vote from him and i don't really like the reasons why he's townreading bulge either

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

meta is: beeboy hard, hard, hard doesn't appear as scum, like, this is less than he's given when he was scum in another game i was in with him (epilogue, was a dance game), and i think that misty calling attention to it like... constantly, is really fucking weird lmfao

like she's trying to make it a funny little thing that's happening rather than him just not wanting to play scum

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

I don’t like his bulge townread either!

What do you think of the inverse- bulges townread on him?

what do you mean? like bulge townreading him?

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

if that's what you mean, it looks like the sort of safe townread you can give a partner and walk it back, and i know it was at the end of bulge's writeup so he might've been tired but it's like... idk, including just one little thing that pings feels like something you put in to make it feel like you're doing some form of "sorting" when it's an arbitrary thing you pick out that doesn't really make the other person look bad at all

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

lg / cakez / bulge / mom / ? as a potential right now

[Disaster Cartel]

but it feels like a loop to say that, because i feel like i'm explaining it to myself as cakez is scum if mom is, and mom is scum because cakez is

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

skitter just townread me havent you learned by now ...........

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

I agree! In his defense he didn’t really post in illicit but they were silenced for like a month. But he was super lurkerscum in xeno. Misty calling attention and complaining about it seems like a rookie hydra mistake, it’s a lot easier to just go “it is what it is deal with it” or fly solo.

Yes about bulge, go look at his catch-up wall.

Ninja-
I don’t think Cakez is scum for the record. He’s just done some things that pinged me, but he’s not on the table for me today.

Can you walk me through why him and mom make sense as a team? Because I have solo reasons mom is +scum

mostly just from looking at his latest posts, i think that cakez makes more sense as bussing scum (pushing either lg/mom who both i think are viable options today for people?) than not, i don't think he's the best choice either today bc it's dumb to think that he is Always Scum for voting people who flip scum lmfao

like it was kind of just "i don't like this" to me, when i read his little push on mom, and "choo choo" of all things pinged me as a lighthearted way to vote which i wasnt expecting from cakez as a player but that might be thinking hes more serious than he is

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

skitter just townread me havent you learned by now ...........

- ydra

No

TOWNREAD ME

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

@skitter - idk where mena is (he seems like he's been busy and we haven't gotten to talk about this game at all) but when he's back i'ms ure he will wanna talk to you!!

@notsci - i don't remember if i've any finished games with cakez right now actually? i think any perception of him i have is more through skimming things, and huh. i dont know if that does much for me frankly but i guess its good to keep in mind? do you think its something he could replicate as scum tho?

[Disaster Cartel]

ill try and prod him into posting but he's been mysterious and i miss him because i wanted to play this game WITH him

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

im about to change our avatar to something i would use for myself bc this is my city now

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

In xeno he was stamping his feet throughout day one as Cabd managed to amass a wagon on him without a case. I think it was more over the top ans aggressive compared to the understated nature here, if that makes sense. The delicacy of the frustration made me lean town.

Do I think it’s fake able? Potentially. Do I think this is the game? Not really.

Ninja-
Was for ydra

A bit concerned about mena’s disappearance but understand real life is a thing. Was very meh about his townread on me and feels like he just got that intro “townread notsci and he’ll ignore you” from a buddy

hmm, maybe, ill skim those games maybe but i feel like the circumstances are different where im wary to just embrace it without playing w him which is how i get the Feels for people. skimming/reading old games doesnt do too much for me but i still like to give it a shot

i havent a clue what he was thinking about/reading through the last time he was around so i cant tell you much tbh

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

yeah, i feel it, just a difference but it Be like that, im not interested in voting cakez regardless and im honestly just fine keeping my vote on lg and seeing what happens

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

oh god now im under PRESSURE

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

no, no, i will stay strong and believe he will return and until then i rest upon my widows watch

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

why are you not scum?

- ydra

[Disaster Cartel]

also

@salsa: i know you’re having health issues that are leaving you v/la but is there any reason you’ve been active on site everywhere but here over the past few days?

[Disaster Cartel]

this game is annoying and I can't be fucked so ydra is running our slot until I feel like playing again

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

I'd tell you to fuck off notsci, but it's not worth the words

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

maybe realise there's a time and a place for shitty sniping comments like your last one

[Disaster Cartel]

this game is annoying and I can't be fucked so ydra is running our slot until I feel like playing again

-Mena

what’s “annoying” about it

you feel like you did in panic room with this whole “it’s not MY fault everyone is scumreading me, read me better!!1!1!1!” and then flouncing off without giving us a way to read you better.

- lilith

Cool story lili, go ahead and vote us then

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

my brain is exploding, sorry if I missed anything. @ me again etc etc

pedit: you’re literally just proving me right. how are people supposed to 1) read you as town if you’re town and not doing anything to help them get to the right read, and 2) not draw parallels between this and a recent scumgame?

- lilith

Oh no, such scumhunt, wow

[Disaster Cartel]

We quake in boots, ur talent so strong, u do such good job catching us!!!1!!1!1!!1!1!1

[Disaster Cartel]

Bulge let me know when you read nacho. I’m fine killing him today and will reap the “I told you sos” later if I’m wrong.

Mena hydra goes tomorrow. I agree with lillith wrt the AtE and for someone so done with this game he sure is doing a lot of following along with this game.

wow notsci, so good at game, much scummy 4 me, wow, great

[Disaster Cartel]

yes yes i only follow games where i not trying when scum

such reads, wow

[Disaster Cartel]

i’m just eager to point out how fuckin

good

lili and notsci are at the game

[Disaster Cartel]

Am I not allowed to pay an honest compliment to my fellow players?

[Disaster Cartel]

from bigging up these amazing reads?

[Disaster Cartel]

wow cakez, it’s almost like you’re suggesting their reads are fucking trash if you don’t think I should bug them up for them

[Disaster Cartel]

But I’m sure you’d neeever be saying that right

[Disaster Cartel]

Salsa unable to decide which shitwagon to push lol

[Disaster Cartel]

also i really wanted to play with mena and i'm kinda Sad that doesn't seem to be happening >.>

~ skitter

I’ll talk with you if there are things you wanna talk about

-Mena

[Disaster Cartel]

Honestly kinda forgetting but I think it was basically that the NM policy thing I think was a lot more town than scum motivated, and I think that the way the game is playing around him is similar to how they’re playing around our slot and as far as I’ve read it’s for comparabl(my shitty) reasons rearing back to, again, the NM thing which I fundamentally disagree was ever scummy

Not really. I guess kismet is town from the sheer number of people who are swearing that they’d sacrifice their own mother before believe he’s scum

This is probably the best chance but if you wanna tell lili to not speak to me until she gets over herself in the PT, go ahead

-M

[Disaster Cartel]

Actually, kismet is town, your slot is kinda gross for your other head, cakez, salsa, leafy are all probably scum

All of notsci’s improvement in mafia has apparently been left behind in 2020 but I guess he’s town

NM can be scum still

Mom and bulge I haven’t really read any posts from

[Disaster Cartel]

So maybe like (salsa, cakez, leafy) and then probably 2/4 of (NM, bulge, mom, VFT)

[Disaster Cartel]

Oh, actually infinity I could maybe add to that last group too, so 2/5 of (NM, bulge, mom, VFT, infinity) scum, with that number increasing if any of (salsa, cakez, leafy) aren’t

[Disaster Cartel]

Btw, other than your slot, which ones are the shitwagons Menalque? I changed my vote between you, SirCakez and Nachomamma8 so far.

...pretty obviously mine and nacho’s given that I’d

literally

just posted about how nacho is a TR and that I think cakez is scum

[Disaster Cartel]

Do you scumread me from the start of the game, or it has started recently because I start to scumread you hence vote you?

I was waiting to give you a chance after your initial vote on me and instead of having any like, actual thought process on scum or why X is scum, you’ve just been creating justifications to shift between what I think are the two easiest wagons for scum to be on (mine/nacho’s)

[Disaster Cartel]

uh mena i can tell lilith not to interact with you but i'm not sure she actually did anything, like antagonizing really ....

also i'm not sure why you're reading my slot off of her and not me

~ skitter

Lilith, who has very little experience playing with me as scum and has not got a great record of reading me as town when I’m town coming in and being like “hurr durr panic room 1-game meta” was antagonising when I’m getting shitpushed by like half the game

and bc I think there’s a chance scum you tries to involve me in the game anyway even if I think mostly scum!you would just shut me out and not care if

i

SR you so long as nobody cared what I thought

Whereas I, in the contrary to her reads on me, have a pretty good read rate on lili from our games together. I’ve got an okay one on you, but I feel more confident in reading her

[Disaster Cartel]

Oh, actually infinity I could maybe add to that last group too, so 2/5 of (NM, bulge, mom, VFT, infinity) scum, with that number increasing if any of (salsa, cakez, leafy) aren’t

also i don't understand this like at all ...

~ skitter

What do you not get about it

[Disaster Cartel]

Btw, other than your slot, which ones are the shitwagons Menalque? I changed my vote between you, SirCakez and Nachomamma8 so far.

...pretty obviously mine and nacho’s given that I’d

literally

just posted about how nacho is a TR and that I think cakez is scum

Good talk (2)

[Disaster Cartel]

I don't scumread Nachomamma8, that's why change my vote

And so you were voting and unvoting him why if you don’t scumread him?

[Disaster Cartel]

Actually, kismet is town, your slot is kinda gross for your other head, cakez, salsa, leafy are all probably scum

what pings you about lilith in particular?

(1) she’s just kind of unenthusiastic for the game compared to what I’d expect from town lili and more importantly (2) I think lili’s approach of “oh mena you remind me of this one game where you were scum” instead of like, trying to have any positive interaction with me or to help get me back into the game (when I’d say that we normally have a pretty positive relationship in thread) when I’m already frozen out is +scum for the slot. It’s like the exact opposite of what skitter is doing which is weird but possibly may just be hydra dissonance?

[Disaster Cartel]

Mena if you're town we're just like seeing the game completely topsy turvy and I want to figure out how we can get past that. I'm not claiming that I know everything here but I'm just having a lot of trouble getting to where you are based on what you've given out so far

Maybe asking me about shit in the first place might have been a good place to start

Why do you think nacho is scum?

[Disaster Cartel]

uh mena i can tell lilith not to interact with you but i'm not sure she actually did anything, like antagonizing really ....

also i'm not sure why you're reading my slot off of her and not me

~ skitter

Lilith, who has very little experience playing with me as scum and has not got a great record of reading me as town when I’m town coming in and being like “hurr durr panic room 1-game meta” was antagonising when I’m getting shitpushed by like half the game

and bc I think there’s a chance scum you tries to involve me in the game anyway even if I think mostly scum!you would just shut me out and not care if

i

SR you so long as nobody cared what I thought

Whereas I, in the contrary to her reads on me, have a pretty good read rate on lili from our games together. I’ve got an okay one on you, but I feel more confident in reading her

i don't think she was trying to be antagonizing fwiw, but i'm sorry you feel that way

do you have an actual reason to think i'm scum here, or is it just that you think how i'm interacting with you could come from scum-me too?

i feel like you usually try to sort me first as town tho, that i'm usually a p high-priority sort for you and i'm not really getting that here, and ngl i think you trying to sort us off of lilith is weird

~ skitter

My concerns about your slot are from the lilith side — I think you’ve been towny-ish especially in engaging me here but I just don’t think you’re out of scumrange

I think I’m more paranoid about you than normal because of the v high rand!scum potential, sorry. So I feel more confident on sorting lili than you because I think I will always struggle to spot scum!you on D1

[Disaster Cartel]

but like i'm baffled how you're approaching nacho, kismet, me and infinity

I think I already explained nacho kinda did you want me to try and explain any of that more or?

Kismet I don’t see why he was so town before the identity reveal but I guess is town if everyone is saying that bork would never play like this ever as scum

you I just did

Infinity I don’t think has been particularly towny so far? But she hasn’t done anything that makes me want to like throw her into a guillotine either so far either. Idk I think my expectations for infinity are dropping but her also just being like “don’t talk if you’re not gonna be nice” instead of like, making any effort to engage me just also felt bad and I would kind of expect her to know by now that that’s not a useful or effective way of engaging with me and I think scum!infinity would be pretty happy for town!me to be a good prospective elim and very checked out of the game

[Disaster Cartel]

also i'm not sure he's actually scumreading lilith (and thus us) so much as he's pissed at her

this is maybe possible i guess

-all M, obviously

[Disaster Cartel]

hi peta

-M

[Disaster Cartel]

skitter said mena doesn't want me to talk to him which made me not really want to open this game today :/

- lilith

I have more thoughts on mena but I don't really want to talk about it anymore because I feel like I'm just going to get attacked and feel shitty afterwards

- lilith

okay, I want to address this first: sorry, i was probably being too harsh but I found the way you decided to approach me really bizarre if your slot is town and it annoyed me bc it felt a lot like a scum pile-on while I was already not feeling like playing

I just don't get why town!you decides to like, just call me scum while having barely talked to me all game based on one game of meta when traditionally town!you has not been that confident on reading me, instead of like, doing anything that might help you to see I'm town or to try and get me to want to actually play

-M

[Disaster Cartel]

“don’t talk if you’re not gonna be nice” instead of like, making any effort to engage me just also felt bad

? You weren't showing any desire or motivation to play the game, you were just being unpleasant

Me being disengaged from mafia recently hasn't helped though. What do you want to talk about?

I mean there isn't anything specific rn I wanna talk to you about but it seems off to me that seeing that from me you decided that being antagonistic and like taking a jab rather than doing more or less literally anything other than that was your play

like this has been a pattern this game that I've felt like a lot of people have been trying to freeze me out or just dismiss me/avoid me rather than wanting to talk to me and that has, very predictably, not left me feeling a lot like I wanna play