Large Normal 232—Sibyl's Elegy [GAME OVER]

[Andresvmb]

I’m here, I will start reading.

VOTE: Dunnstral

You did this.

[Andresvmb]

Nope. I remember you tho. From my first game. I played like a headless chicken. Kinda embarrassing.

So there is a good chance, that you are a scum now... Time has come. And you act rather suspiciously right now

Yeah, I see that you remember me, carrying my quote in your signature

I actually think Scum is somewhat more likely to post this than Town. Negative points for you sir.

[Andresvmb]

kerset town

Koba Town.

[Andresvmb]

Expect minimal participation from me.

I hate you sometimes.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: T3

already complaining about being caught early in the pit fall

we should throw in the cement

I'm not complaining. Etine voted me for an invalid reason and then DeathNote and Windows also vote me without explanation.

VOTE: T3

[Andresvmb]

ur voting that slot

You have it backwards.

[Andresvmb]

"low content" isn't a good scumread this early in the game

I know you can seemingly make a lot of sense as Scum so I have to be careful not to easily TR you, but yeah this is accurate.

[Andresvmb]

I’ve been pretty pinged by T3, would blow it up. {Cabd, WindowsXP, NDMath} seem like Town to me so far.

[Andresvmb]

I’ll get back to this tonight btw.

[Andresvmb]

Okay I had promised to get back to this but I haven’t. I have stretched myself a bit thin and I need more time to read.

[Andresvmb]

I did end up reading Etine’s emotional reaction to being wagoned (not the Claim actually, just the reaction) as I was randomly scrolling through some of the pages, and it’s fairly obvious they’re Town.

[Andresvmb]

ugh you know what
vote kitty
if kitty isn't scum vote me tomorrow i'm just a 1 shot bulletproof and after everyone RANDOLY scumreading it's not like mafia will ever try to kill me

Roles do exist that can pierce through vests you know that right?

[Andresvmb]

Anyway I’m almost hopelessly behind but I will do my best to catch up. A lot has happened in this game without me paying much attention so I’ll give it an honest shot.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Andres

Not sure why I

bolded

instead!

It’s not a great vote, but I’m not going to complain too much while I haven’t contributed much yet. I just hope you’ll give me some time to really catch up. I didn’t say it here (you can strictly check whether this is true from posts in another ongoing game, though other than that I will not speak about it), but I have been sick the last 2 days. I am on the mend, but I just need some time to catch up. You’ll get my updated views as soon as I can sit down and read the entire game which I certainly intend to do.

[Andresvmb]

I’m reading btw.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Andresvmb

Is this you anticipating that I’m going to come in and vote you?

What do you mean and? I’m just saying I’m catching up and will actually contribute. I’ve been a bit stretched playing multiple games (and was not expecting to be in so many at the same time) so I haven’t given this one the attention it deserves. I am now.

[Andresvmb]

I haven’t fully caught up or anything, but I’m really up in arms as to how T3 hasn’t at the very least been more significantly wagoned. That slot is almost surely Scum.

[Andresvmb]

he had 8 votes, rather many

And they didn’t get executed? I have to get to that then. Because frankly it’s like screaming Scum to me.

[Andresvmb]

t3 claimed bulletproof, then 2-shot-cop, had 8 votes, alive

We had a role get run up that claimed 2 different things including a 2-Shot Cop in a game with a claimed 1-Shot Cop and they’re alive?!

[Andresvmb]

Koba can you just break it down for me - what the hell is going on?

[Andresvmb]

T3 is the most blatant Scum in the game. Okay I haven’t read everything so I need to go look at the claim and how it went down, but they’re absurdly Scummy.

[Andresvmb]

They fake claim 1-Shot Bulletproof to try and save themselves, and then they come back with a stronger Claim (and when have you ever seen a Cop that is a Night 1 and Night 2 use only, as if anybody would ever wait to use the slot into future nights like what), and they’re alive?!

[Andresvmb]

if you didnt read properly why smb need to believe in your propaganda? are u so good in reading t3? is it possible that a cop claims bp not to die at night?

Propaganda?!

T3 is like OBVIOUS Scum. In fact, it’s so obvious it’s completely painful to me.

[Andresvmb]

andre, maybe because he said he is going to check you?)

This is like so bad.

You think I’m afraid of getting checked here? Please.

[Andresvmb]

I strongly encourage this Town to not execute Cabd. They claimed VT right? Leave it alone for today. Let’s find another target.

[Andresvmb]

enchant made much worse mistakes, especially if kitty is scum

I doubt either one of those slots is Scum. Again, I haven’t read the whole game, so bear with me. But from what I’ve seen, you’re barking every wrong tree possible.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: T3

ok if like this flips town im gonna kinda just bin andres as scum here but i trust their gut

I get scared when you do this. You’ve tried to sheep me in multiple different games. I mean do you not agree?

[Andresvmb]

How does anyone read T3 as Town here?! I really positively don’t get it.

[Andresvmb]

Etine is Town. That one is like super obvious. I said as much earlier already.

[Andresvmb]

andre, enchant advised to a cop to check echant's townie Etine (babysitter) and then made E-1 for Cabd, who also was his townie before this vote and after this vote still remained townie... what do you think about thiiis??

I think you’re distracting by pitting potentially two Townies against each other. I also got positive vibes from Enchant actually but that one’s weaker.

[Andresvmb]

Vasex what the hell are you doing. This is either the most basic Scum Partner defense I’ve ever seen or just bad play.

You bashed Etine for claiming to create noise, yet you’re seriously coming in here and not pushing a player that claimed two different things under pressure?! Is this a joke?

[Andresvmb]

a player that claimed two different things under pressure?!

not under pressure

What. They’re wagon made it all the way to 8 votes. Didn’t you just say that?

[Andresvmb]

Etine claimed with 6 votes when you started giving them grief over it. Let me guess, Marky Mark was okay with it too?

[Andresvmb]

There aren’t 2 Cops in the game. There just aren’t. That’s bullshit. The fact that we’re looking to leave them both alive is INSANE.

[Andresvmb]

How is that not as good as a straight CC?! 1-Shot Cop v. a N1/N2 Cop and they’re not cross-voting? Is this a joke?

[Andresvmb]

And we want to execute the VT?

Some of you should be ashamed.

[Andresvmb]

How much more do I need to say this.

T3 is BLATANT Scum. Blatant.

[Andresvmb]

They see a claim from a Cop, and they don’t immediately CC it when they are also gated?! What, are they hoping they go and check someone else?!

Can somebody explain to me the strategic consideration behind leaving them both alive here? Completely absurd.

[Andresvmb]

are u drunk andres lol u seem like weird

No I’m seriously frustrated from reading this game. I feel like I’m going out on a limb here for some reason when I shouldn’t feel this way at all. Like there’s plenty of excellent players in this game. Why am I the only one that doesn’t think it’s incredible that we have 2 Cop claims that are both gated and neither one is about to be the execution?

[Andresvmb]

there's an obvious one but i'd rather u bury urself as scum here on d1 rather than give u the reasoning on a silver platter. if ur town imma just trust u

No I get it. We force them to go check other players and (presumably) they’ll both be alive tomorrow since the Scum might be forced not to shoot the real Cop in fear of getting their buddy executed, which gives us plenty of information for later.

I’m just telling you, T3 claim is completely bogus.

[Andresvmb]

check std/andre

Why is anybody listening to anything you’re saying still? Amazing.

[Andresvmb]

Can somebody find me 1 Setup that’s been played on this forum with two distinct Cops amongst the Town?

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Vasex

[Andresvmb]

I suggest the real Cop check amongst {Nero Cain, Marky Mark, Samantha, DeathNote}

[Andresvmb]

That’s my humble proposition.

[Andresvmb]

And that’s if for some reason we don’t execute amongst {Vasex, T3}.

[Andresvmb]

Ah I forgot Marky Mark already claimed Miller. So ignore that.

[Andresvmb]

Can somebody find me 1 Setup that’s been played on this forum with two distinct Cops amongst the Town?

I don't think both of the cops are real.

The argument is that we eliminate one of them tomorrow instead of today. Why do we have to eliminate them today and risk not getting a check off?

We're still going to get them. They're not going anywhere.

I just think T3 is the most obvious Scum to ever Scum. Like we don’t have to wait - we can just execute correctly. But if we execute Vasex then I’m fine.

[Andresvmb]

I mean okay there’s a world where Vasex is spewing so much misinformation the Scum are just letting us all have it. But I just don’t understand anything they’re saying. There’s so much contradiction and nonsense I don’t even know what to do with myself.

[Andresvmb]

UNVOTE:

Let me think about this some more. I really want to finish reading first.

[Andresvmb]

Andre, u wont be alive till the end of the game.

You’re wrong about basically everything but you’re right about this.

[Andresvmb]

Like your solve is so horrifying, and your play so erratic, I really don’t understand why, if you’re Scum, you haven’t been told by your Partners already to stop spewing people.

[Andresvmb]

When I first saw that Kitty had claimed a 1-Shot Cop, it reminded me of a game I was in where I was Scum and my Partner claimed that under pressure, actually.

[Andresvmb]

They ended up getting executed for it, and since I refused to bus them, we ended up losing that one.

[Andresvmb]

So in a way I understand your skepticism. I guess is what I’m saying. And the deeper I get into the game, the more I can see why some of their posts would be SR’ed.

But what I’m loudly complaining about is the fact that a gated Cop didn’t see it fit to immediately counterclaim there, and absolutely bury them, ensuring that they day ends on a Scum execution and not all this nonsense being spewed.

[Andresvmb]

how could you be sure that im wrong about everything? do you know sides?
so you are scummy then

Are you just going to engage in level 1 thinking this whole game? Because if so I can just stop interacting with you entirely and we can simply agree to disagree.

[Andresvmb]

tell me what im wrong about
you said that im wrong in everything
kitty scum? you agree with that
t3 townie? you dont agree with that
what else?
enchant town for you? excellent.
what else im wrong from your pov?

Forget the actual conclusions for a minute.

The way you go about establishing reads is just so different to anything I try to do. And I find myself constantly scratching my head.

I will put all of my reads out there once I’m done reading so I’ve captured the entire context of the game thus far. But you can probably already tell where my head is at.

[Andresvmb]

And I didn’t say that Kitty was Scum. I only said that in a vacuum, that claim more often comes from Scum.

[Andresvmb]

Or at least that’s what I was hinting at since I brought it up in the context of me having seen it in a game where my Scum Partner did it.

[Andresvmb]

You’re wrong about basically everything

this was a slip

Sigh.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Nero Cain

[Andresvmb]

townie who didn't read the thread properly cannot say smth like you wrong about everything, townie cannot be so sure about that in that situation

So you’re the only one that is allowed to proclaim with confidence that other players are Town or Scum. Is that what you’re suggesting? Because it seems like you didn’t wait long into the game at all before claiming with supreme confidence that certain players were Scum, or Town, only to be forced to change direction.

[Andresvmb]

You’re wrong about basically everything

SLIP

I hope you understand that for my own sanity, I’m going to not directly interact with you for a bit.

[Andresvmb]

So you’re the only one that is allowed to proclaim with confidence that other players are Town or Scum. Is that what you’re suggesting? Because it seems like you didn’t wait long into the game at all before claiming with supreme confidence that certain players were Scum, or Town, only to be forced to change direction.

i cannot say to my scummies or some problem nulls that they are wrong about everything.
they could guess or could know smth, partners can be bussing.
but you told me that im wrong about everything.
and now you are looking frightened and scared lol.
because this is a real mistake from your side.
townies cannot judge the others like that, especially so early and with not much information like you

I’m not scared of you. That’s the most ridiculous thing you could ever even suggest. I don’t play scared. Ever. As either alignment. I just think you need to be hard ignored. I don’t think you have a clue what’s going on in the game. You make quick conclusions about things and just spew nonsense constantly. Whatever is latest in the thread that grabs your attention, you think that’s Scum. I think you’re being manipulated by Scum or at least being used as a shield. I guarantee you never die in this game.

[Andresvmb]

so im townie for you now? why did you vote me?

and again. asking people to ignore me with not much info you have - this is scummy think like "you wrong about everything". you cannot know for sure that i didnt find some scummies among my scumreads. so it isn't normal to ask others to ignore me, u cannot know anything for sure from your pov

If you randomly guessed that 5 players are Scum, some of them probably would be. Just how probability works.

The issue you’re having is that you read what I wrote literally. As in, you think I actually meant to say that literally every single read you have expressed is wrong. Which you’ve then correctly realized is unlikely 1. that I would, as Town, be able to point to that with complete accuracy, and 2. that a Town player would express that to begin with. But you completely fail to account for the chance that I was being sarcastic. Which, for a player that likes to diminish folks to quickly, is fascinating to me.

[Andresvmb]

folks to quickly, is fascinating to me.

*so quickly

[Andresvmb]

so im townie for you now? why did you vote me?

I think you’re likely to be Town because like I said, I find it hard to believe that your Scum Partners in a game of this size haven’t already told you to stop pushing every nonsense thought that comes into your head into the thread.

[Andresvmb]

kitty and enchant can be scums. do you agree with that?

I think Kitty could be Scum, but I think T3 is far more suspicious, and their claim makes no sense to me at all. Enchant is a weak read it’s not a slot I think you can sort with any accuracy at this stage.

[Andresvmb]

{DeathNote, SaveTheDragons, Nero Cain, Samantha}. I really do think there’s multiple Scum in that group. One of T3/Kitty is always Scum this much is true. Marky Mark has pinged me a lot but I don’t know I don’t think I can figure out the entire Team.

Etine, Rathe, and DGB actually struck me as Town, particularly the first two. WindowsXP is probably Town? Not sure there. NDMath and Kerset have given me positive vibes. I need to read Cabd more carefully, but based on the claim and the early play, I do think they’re Town. I’ll silently keep reading and if you want to figure out where I’m coming from ask directly.

[Andresvmb]

vasex u got prior mafia experience? i can like really feel it - like i legit would like nom u for rising star for just your play this far regardless of your alignment you're playing dominantly and very cool

What. The. Fuck.

Okay. Replace Samantha with XP in my group.

[Andresvmb]

Wait I’ve gathered 4 votes purely amongst people I TR? Incredible. So I question something some of you should actually now realize is obviously off, and I’m being SR for it. Does anybody want to question my reads here, or are we just going to make me waste my time? I spent 4 hours reading yesterday and I got through like half of the game. I need to finish reading carefully, but if y’all are just going to vote me off let me know so I can go back to slacking.

[Andresvmb]

For some reason your reads are unaffected by people activity. Are you honest?

Yeah some of my reads are weaker because the posts aren’t there sure. I usually build like a tiering of players that show this better. I just haven’t finished reading so I haven’t revealed it yet, but I was hoping to get there.

[Andresvmb]

Also @Vasex T3 didn’t claim 2-Shot Cop. They claimed N1/N2 Cop. Now, I really hope that they meant to say 2-Shot Cop, but I’m not actually sure. The Claim seems very specific to me.

[Andresvmb]

Andresvmb, you think T3 and Kitty are both town?

No I said I feel that’s

impossible

. That’s the whole point of my rant.

[Andresvmb]

Nero Cain – Why U mad tho? I don’t think Nero gets into it with Koba as S-S, or as S-T… and I think KOba is town, soooooooo…. T-T? Yeah. T-T.

Kerset – 50% secret meta read, 50% just fucking open the ISO, noobs.

Marky Mark – Maintain the miller claim is town here. Additionally maintain that the way Marky is wading into the game is town indicative for him.


Tier Two Reads – “Those off the table for me today, wheeeeeeee~”Etine – Claimed pseudo protective. Giving it Time.

KittyTacky – Claimed Investigative, Giving it Time.

Okay hahahaha this is hogwash. Maybe I shouldn’t have interrupted this wagon, this reads list is horrific.

[Andresvmb]

Let me rephrase. I actually don’t horribly disagree that Kerset is Town. I think Marky Mark is getting too much credit here, but okay fine maybe. And their Tier 2 is all about giving some slots time which okay fine. I just wish they would have more clearly said those two players however most likely can’t co-exist in the same game. Or something of the sort. And I really SR Nero Cain so that one boggles the mind.

[Andresvmb]

Wait I’ve gathered 4 votes purely amongst people I TR? Incredible.

i never thought that you are TR
im thinking you can be mafia from the very beginning, where you started scumreading me because of my attack at kitty

Your attack on Kitty? What the hell are you talking about? Where did I list that as a reason to SR you? I’ll wait. Point out where I wrote - “Vasex is Scum because Kitty is Town” or anything of the sort, even implied.

[Andresvmb]

Wait i wrongly readed your post. My question was dumb.

Ye, i certanly agree, probality that one of Kitty or T3 is scum is great. Honestly, Kitty looks more ugly for me, because of agreement with everything. Why you think Kitty > T3?

T3’s posts in this game are like standing on a rooftop and screaming I’m Scum. I can’t quite explain the feeling. There’s just something so off about the slot. I highlighted in my read through multiple times where I thought they were stretching a read to push a player (towards the beginning of the game), getting overly whiny and defensive (127 really made me laugh), using meta in a really suspicious way to read NDMath, I thought some of the votes they put out were really opportunistic (like their early vote for Etine for instance) after arguing that their tone was fake because they wrote “Hmmm” out in a post...

This is all outside of them saying that all my contributions were mechanical at one point when all I had revealed were some early reads (so intentional misrepresentation there), and of course the claims themselves that the slot made.

[Andresvmb]

Now I’m going to say this, and it’s important. I don’t think I can read T3 properly. I find their style infuriating. I can’t for the life of me understand some of the things they’re posting.

[Andresvmb]

Your attack on Kitty? What the hell are you talking about? Where did I list that as a reason to SR you? I’ll wait. Point out where I wrote - “Vasex is Scum because Kitty is Town” or anything of the sort, even implied.

your second post

Nope. I remember you tho. From my first game. I played like a headless chicken. Kinda embarrassing.

So there is a good chance, that you are a scum now... Time has come. And you act rather suspiciously right now

Yeah, I see that you remember me, carrying my quote in your signature

I actually think Scum is somewhat more likely to post this than Town. Negative points for you sir.

Why don’t you ask before you make ridiculous conclusions? I always think that questioning a player’s alignment because they’ve rolled Town multiple times or something is incredibly suspicious.

You want to know something funny? I’ve played... more than 10 games in this forum not counting active games, and I have yet to roll Scum once. Which is unreal. But I just hate the logic more than the person you’re attacking or anything else.

[Andresvmb]

I think Kitty is town and thus there's scum on his wagon but @ the very least we should force all the lurkers to start posting.

And after Kitty gets to E-1 btw, nobody thought this was suspicious? This isn’t Scum posturing for a Town flip? Did anybody highlight this?

[Andresvmb]

I take back flipping XP and Samantha btw. That original grouping should stand.

[Andresvmb]

I take back flipping XP and Samantha btw. That original grouping should stand.

So ignore 2176. I’m feeling better about XP [Koba] as I read the game more. Unless Kitty is Scum of course.

[Andresvmb]

I think Kitty is town and thus there's scum on his wagon but @ the very least we should force all the lurkers to start posting.

And after Kitty gets to E-1 btw, nobody thought this was suspicious? This isn’t Scum posturing for a Town flip? Did anybody highlight this?

b/c you know that I'm wrong or something? I have a tendency to think that fast wagons usally hit town b/c they are full of clueless town/opportunistic scum.

there were also such GG posts

VOTE: KittyTacky

I guess i should join something VOTE: Kitty

VOTE: Kitty

VOTE: Kitty

VOTE: Kitty

im not really sure why my opinion is "scummy" unless you know that its wrong.

Sure Nero. You’re going to use the same logic Vasex is using to push me?

[Andresvmb]

When a player in a large game gets to E-1 and has 10 votes on them, you just meekly suggesting that it’s going to flip Town and getting the hell out of dodge IS suspicious. It means you don’t really care to defend an execution you feel is wrong. And I know you can be super loud and obnoxious.

[Andresvmb]

your scumgame is a joke andre

You’ve never seen it, so how would you know?

[Andresvmb]

do you like playing scum, Andres?

No I hate it. I don’t think I’m bad at it particularly, but it’s not why I play the game.

[Andresvmb]

does scum!Andres admit he hates scum and that's why he's been avoiding this game so much?

Is this a question for me?

Look, my biggest tell as Scum is constantly promising to get into a game and never doing it. That, and apparently reacting poorly under pressure. I also don’t get as combative historically (but now that I know this you can’t use it against me).

I haven’t been avoiding the game. I’ve been stretched, like I said. And I also got sick. This D1 is so absurdly long that I felt I had enough time to sit down, read, and make some contributions.

[Andresvmb]

Sure Nero. You’re going to use the same logic Vasex is using to push me?

if you think this is the first time I've pushed you then you clearly aren't reading the game. And if you aren't reading the game then it makes me question how genuine

2269

is. I make wagon speed arguments all the fucking time b/c its a p good indicator of someone's alignment and preemptively calling me out b4 a kitty flip makes me think you have more information than the rest of us or you are trying to manipulate us into lynching a 1x cop or a town Nero.

So I can’t develop reads before I’m completely caught up. Is that what you’re suggesting?

[Andresvmb]

Your post looked like posturing, not someone who cares to stop a wagon on a player they read as Town. That’s what I’m calling out. I thought you were Scum for other reasons but that one stuck out to me the most.

[Andresvmb]

Andre, what should we do instead of elimination of cops?

You do see where my vote is don’t you?

[Andresvmb]

Andre, what should we do instead of elimination of cops?

You do see where my vote is don’t you?

And you saw the pool of players I think should get checked by the Cop?

[Andresvmb]

Also, I think that 2274 is a poor reply b/c I have valid concerns and you are just kinda ignoring them.

You don’t have valid concerns. You just have reasons that are wrong to Scum Read me. I’m not sure it’s intentional yet, but I certainly suspect it.

[Andresvmb]

I’m going to be honest. I’m completely embarrassed we’re not executing T3. They’re so obviously Scum the claim really shouldn’t be saving them.

Look at 935, 969, 971, and tell me that’s the reaction of a player that has seen someone claim their role and is certain they’re Scum. Look this is my way of thinking about it, and it’s possible it’s coloring my view, but here it goes. I’m proud of games where I pick out 2/3 of the Team or something, or make one solid play that sets my team up. That’s what I live for. I don’t think of myself as strong enough or perceptive enough to provide complete solves, or absolutely murder all of the Scum, or mechanically provide perfect answers. So when presented with the opportunity to sacrifice myself for the execution of sure Scum, I take it. If a player claims my role under pressure and I’m suspecting them, I would out and bury them. No questions asked. And in a game this large, the fact that you make yourself such an obvious target means that there’s all kinds of information that could come out if. T3 is

not

acting this way at all. Instead of clearly pushing Kitty who is rapidly losing momentum, and provide either a claim, strong reasoning, or a laser focus, they switch to Enchant, claiming they Scum slipped. Not only is their play incredibly Scummy on its own - the Claim, and the immediate reaction, are spectacularly hard to believe.

Look, I’m fine with looking past the claim. At the end of the day my vote isn’t there. But I want to be crystal clear - T3 should get executed tomorrow. And I’m certain they’ll be around to tell us about their “check”.

[Andresvmb]

ugh you know what
vote kitty
if kitty isn't scum vote me tomorrow i'm just a 1 shot bulletproof and after everyone RANDOLY scumreading it's not like mafia will ever try to kill me

Like how is this not just the most ridiculous thing ever?! To try and bury them after your silly reactions you claim Bulletproof?! Why would that make your voice more believable?

Anyway rant over. One of those two slots is Scum. It could very well be Kitty and I could just be way wrong which I have been hahaha so, that’s possible. I just don’t understand the thinking behind some of this at all.

[Andresvmb]

that could come out if.

*that could come out of it.

[Andresvmb]

vote enchant to see if there is a kitty enchant conspiracy without losing a possible 1 shot cop
i don't even know why i claimed i guess i was just annoyed that people were't voting kitty

C’MON MAN.

[Andresvmb]

I mean you aren't even voting t3, andre

You’re Scum too so it’s fine.

[Andresvmb]

I want someone to tell me why they Town Read Nero Cain. I would argue they’re quite likely to flip Scum.

[Andresvmb]

scum nero would pocket people

That’s all you have? You don’t think they’ve been encouraging every garbage push by Vasex? Or diverting attention away from T3 at the most convenient times? And has put down multiple convenient / garbage votes? Am I like insane here?

[Andresvmb]

I think Nero is full of shit. Some of their logic doesn’t track at all. Look at 1107, 1113, and 1116 again and tell me that logic makes sense, or that vote moving away from the action isn’t horrific. I already hate the posturing around Kitty, and now that I look back on all this, and they’re ridiculous posturing about me being Scum, I just think there’s no way Nero is serious.

And they have tried defending players in really marginal situations, or what you would call potential pockets. Look at the defense of Save The Dragons in 655, and look at STD’s ISO until then, and tell me that this defense makes any sense. STD’s ISO up to that point is a bunch of nothing. I actually have felt gradually better about STD as the game has progressed, but at that stage? Bullshit.

[Andresvmb]

they’re ridiculous posturing

*their ridiculous

[Andresvmb]

scum nero would pocket people

That’s all you have? You don’t think they’ve been encouraging every garbage push by Vasex? Or diverting attention away from T3 at the most convenient times? And has put down multiple convenient / garbage votes? Am I like insane here?

He was consistent and independent thought is a town tell.

Independent? What game are you reading? Can you provide some examples please?

[Andresvmb]

This is going to have to wait until tomorrow night. But I will finish reading come hell or high water.

[Andresvmb]

This is going to have to wait until tomorrow night. But I will finish reading come hell or high water.

deadline is approaching - your excuses grow thin

I’m not producing excuses - I’m saying what I’m going to do. And I already provided most of my thoughts. So you can scrutinize my opinions if you want.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Nero Cain

[Andresvmb]

I don’t know why we need to overthink this. Nero Cain is Scum. Now, we can wait for the result of the 1-Shot Cop. But we definitely need to execute there.

[Andresvmb]

I will admit I do find it kind of odd that the Scum didn’t shoot at the 1-Shot Cop. I think I would have strongly considered that. I don’t even think Anya was obvious Town at all.

[Andresvmb]

Um I do think one thing though.

While scum wanted to keep T3 alive for his role, he wasn't playing all that well. At some point I imagine most of them just wanted to see if townies would overthink and go elsewhere. I wonder what that means about Cabd's wagon?

I would more closely look at the wagon that built on Vasex while T3 was getting a lot of heat a little earlier in the day. I think that would is a little more instructive.

[Andresvmb]

I don’t know why we need to overthink this. Nero Cain is Scum. Now, we can wait for the result of the 1-Shot Cop. But we definitely need to execute there.

Can you explain?

I already have. Just look at my ISO.

[Andresvmb]

I will admit I do find it kind of odd that the Scum didn’t shoot at the 1-Shot Cop. I think I would have strongly considered that. I don’t even think Anya was obvious Town at all.

Etine claimed lazy babysitter, maybe they didn't want to gamble. But then it makes you think about why Etine wasn't shot.

It’s possible the Scum weren’t sure which of the outted shots was going to get protected and went for a different Townie, not to take any chances.

[Andresvmb]

outted shots

*Outted slots

[Andresvmb]

i forgot to put you there because your content is nonexistant but you're still scum

fuck off i'm not towncasing myself

Good.. good.

VOTE: bloodhail

Maybe someone else will care to town case you for me then.

Bloodhail is Town btw and this needs to get blown up at some point.

[Andresvmb]

I’ll wait around to see what Kitty has to say, until then, I don’t see any need to execute anybody except for Nero Cain. I’ll start putting in more effort once that’s done.

[Andresvmb]

i forgot to put you there because your content is nonexistant but you're still scum

fuck off i'm not towncasing myself

Good.. good.

VOTE: bloodhail

Maybe someone else will care to town case you for me then.

Bloodhail is Town btw and this needs to get blown up at some point.

Convince me or fight me

I’m not doing shit. If you’re Town all you need to do is read.

[Andresvmb]

Anyway I’ll be back at some point tomorrow. I have some stuff to do.

[Andresvmb]

Let me say it one more bloody time: I AM NOT READING ANYTHING BEFORE THE POINT WHERE I JOINED THE GAME.

If you don’t want to read, that’s on you. But if you really want to find the case against Nero, either you can read what bloodhail posted just today, or you can look at my ISO and read through my fight with them when I was coming out strongly against T3. If you don’t want to do either, then continue voting for Town and kindly fuck off.

[Andresvmb]

this is not a town thought process lmfao

Their predecessor was Scummy too actually. Which is why I said that the slot can get blown up at some point. I think Nero is a better bet but A50 isn’t a bad choice.

[Andresvmb]

Confirmed townies for me: Samantha, bloodhail, Rathe, Kerset.
Lean town: Etine, Mark, Dunn (?), Cabd (?)
Kitty is the most probable cop, but he still can be a scum, there are some chances.
Lean scum: Andre, Anastasia, Nero, NDMath
Scums: STD, Windows, Anya, A50, DGB (?)

Though overall I’m not particularly offended by this, do you really think I’ve been bussing my partner, the Mafia Cop, since 268? Are you serious? I left a vote on them for a long time. I didn’t vote them at the end because I wasn’t here, not because I wouldn’t have. Anybody with a brain can see that I would have.

Anyway, just vote Nero please.

[Andresvmb]

A50 is obvScumming too.

[Andresvmb]

@Koba can you comment on my alignment please. Thanks.

[Andresvmb]

@Vasex I would really appreciate it if you didn’t spam the thread. There is such a thing as posting too much. I can’t read everything you write I don’t have the time.

[Andresvmb]

And Andres ur spewed town off ana+nero scum

I’m not sure what you’re saying here. We don’t know for certain yet that Nero/Ana are Scum. Are you saying you’re not sure yet and want one of those to flip?

[Andresvmb]

Then let’s just execute Nero Cain who is OBVIOUS Scum. Them saying I’m a preferred wagon when I was screaming for the head of the Scum that got executed is laughable and they’re just not that bad.

[Andresvmb]

And Andres ur spewed town off ana+nero scum

I’m not sure what you’re saying here. We don’t know for certain yet that Nero/Ana are Scum. Are you saying you’re not sure yet and want one of those to flip?

Whos scum andres

I don’t have a full solve yet. Mostly because I haven’t had time to read every single post in this game. But you’ve seen me scream for T3’s head. And I have been pushing Nero hard. I also posted a group of checks for the Cop to make. That was my pool with incomplete information.

[Andresvmb]

u weren't even on the t3 wagon lol

Like no serious Town player makes this argument with a straight face. Let’s just execute obvious Scum please.

[Andresvmb]

Like after the wagon had died I started screaming that there weren’t two Town Cops in the game. And that they were blatant Scum. And they pinged me since very early in the game. If the argument really is that I was trying to save them by not voting them, I’m a total idiot as Scum. If I so desperately want the Town cred from the arguments I was making I make sure my vote lands there at the end. This is just bullshit in bad faith and needs to get executed. I pointed it out yesterday and it’s still going.

[Andresvmb]

and yet you believe that im scum that saw T3 going down and didn't hop on for the tow cred? Why is this a valid argument for me but not for you?

You had already defended them like crazy much before then. You look even worse by voting them when they’re going down. This isn’t hard.

[Andresvmb]

Like trying to paint me as Scummy to discredit me is ridiculous here. Anybody paying a lick of attention to this game can see that I’m Town. If I want you dead and not T3, then I make up an argument just against you and ignore T3. Instead, I screamed for their head and yours.

Look this argument is not going to go anywhere because I’m tunneled and I really do think Nero just needs to die. They look by far the worst from T3 flipping Scum. If any of you want to vote me instead by all means. But don’t complain when I call you the worst Town player after the game.

[Andresvmb]

@bloodhail can you vote for Nero please? I have seen Koba [WindowsXP] make mechanically wrong arguments before it doesn’t make them Scum. They’re one of the best at understanding game flow and have an incredible gut for finding Scum to be totally honest. I don’t want them gone, and I don’t trust shit Vasex is saying. Not because I think they’re Scum mind you. They were just wrong yesterday and they’re probably wrong today.

[Andresvmb]

@bloodhail can you vote for Nero please? I have seen Koba [WindowsXP] make mechanically wrong arguments before it doesn’t make them Scum. They’re one of the best at understanding game flow and have an incredible gut for finding Scum to be totally honest. I don’t want them gone, and I don’t trust shit Vasex is saying. Not because I think they’re Scum mind you. They were just wrong yesterday and they’re probably wrong today.

U dont trust me, but do you trust everything what says samantga about dkkoba? She is pretty sure

I have Samantha in my pool of Scum which I revealed yesterday. No I don’t trust everything Samantha is saying, but I haven’t had the time to read them more carefully.

[Andresvmb]

Look in games this large, finding the lowest denominator for Scum isn’t super hard. That’s what I did with T3. That’s why I don’t have a solve - I need to look more carefully. The volume of posts in this game is just too much to pay attention to every little detail. But the person with the most Partner Equity is Nero. That’s why they need to go.

[Andresvmb]

I would gamble my life in this game that Cabd is Town, that Nero’s push is shit. I’m also fairly certain that Vasex you’re Town. That’s also why a wagon built on you after T3 started attracting a lot of attention again. I need to find the time to look at those developments more carefully to find other Scum, and just read the game see what pings. But even A50 backtracked on me because of how ridiculous they look after reading my ISO.

[Andresvmb]

Look you do whatever you want. I will at some point over the next several days read this damn game. So maybe stop spamming it. But I’m telling you, Nero is Scum.

[Andresvmb]

@bloodhail can you vote for Nero please? I have seen Koba [WindowsXP] make mechanically wrong arguments before it doesn’t make them Scum. They’re one of the best at understanding game flow and have an incredible gut for finding Scum to be totally honest. I don’t want them gone, and I don’t trust shit Vasex is saying. Not because I think they’re Scum mind you. They were just wrong yesterday and they’re probably wrong today.

i think theyre both scum and will vote for whoever has the bigger wagon. scuread on windows isnt about it being mechanically wrong its about the random traitor mention and them fishing everywhere for a t3 counterwagon

Yes but they clearly wanted it for a mechanical solve that would have occurred today. There’s a mitigant there. Ahead of any such claims, Nero was defending there. It’s not quite the same.

[Andresvmb]

i wish i could understand the plane of thinking that you occupy because I truly cannot understand how you get these reads. I feel like you make some really bad assumptions a lot and its just ... wow.

I already said that Vasex is going to have to be hard ignored in this game.

[Andresvmb]

Like HOW are people thinking I’m Scum. Who here thinks I hard push my Partner in the way that I did as Scum? Are you guys for real?

[Andresvmb]

i think nero is probably town but i think u r too

You need to wake up.

[Andresvmb]

if you think he is then at least explain t3 moving his vote to him first

why it cannot be bussing? windows tried to help t3 but andre tried to help him in other way - not voting. though he promised to read, promised to be in the game. i believe that anya was also killed because of that, to make it easier for andre to push shit about absense of time to read the game even during the game night etc.
i believe in laziness. i dont believe in time explanation

Did I help him by calling him blatant Scum too? Like seriously this is so basic it’s unbelievable.

[Andresvmb]

Look I’m in 5 games at the same time, all due to bad timing, 3 on this forum, and I just fucking haven’t read all 3,000 posts since this game started after the two others I’m playing here. Like enough already. Look at my history - I dig deep and play 1 game at a time because I like to think deeply about games not play so many at the same time.

[Andresvmb]

I definitely wont be ignored till the end of the game no matter im alive or not, if every of you flips scum one after another. You already dont have the way to win this game. Mathematicly.

You were hard pushing Kitty and defending T3. You’ve already demonstrated you can’t spot obvious Scum. Why would I, or anyone for that matter, trust your reads? You’re almost surely Town like I would be shocked again if you’re Scum playing like this and just spewing whatever. But it doesn’t mean your word should carry any weight. You just move like the wind with your reads and think that because you yell something repeatedly it’s true.

[Andresvmb]

also this idea that someone who ends up having defended scum has to be scum is like so bad and nooby can we please actually examine intentions and thought processes like i clearly have a fluid thought process that is genuine wrt T3 and i was able to drop the assumptions and correctly step aside and allow enchant to hammer at the end.

if im scum there i just hammer and let enchant not take in the towncred they so rightly deserve for that push.

Like yeah this is exactly how I feel. And this quite obviously doesn’t apply to Nero but oh no they’re surely Scum. Their vote for me is definitely coming from Town! Like seriously it’s so bad I don’t know what to say.

[Andresvmb]

i think nero is probably town but i think u r too

You need to wake up.

u think xp is mafia as well u r doing the same thing xp did with vasex n enchant

No I don’t. Fucking read before you make yourself look silly.

[Andresvmb]

@bloodhail can you vote for Nero please? I have seen Koba [WindowsXP] make mechanically wrong arguments before it doesn’t make them Scum. They’re one of the best at understanding game flow and have an incredible gut for finding Scum to be totally honest. I don’t want them gone, and I don’t trust shit Vasex is saying. Not because I think they’re Scum mind you. They were just wrong yesterday and they’re probably wrong today.

Like is this me saying XP is Scum? Is that what you take out of it?

[Andresvmb]

No I don’t. Fucking read before you make yourself look silly.

i was asking u not telling u

You didn’t phrase it like a question. But it’s also something I had expressed a view on.

[Andresvmb]

In any case, I’m probably not getting run up here in a short period of time. So maybe I can find some time tomorrow to really get into this. I want to stop commenting until I have a holistic view of the game.

Nero is still Scum though.

[Andresvmb]

Oh you guys don’t have to worry about me “lurking” anymore. I survived the week and now I’m back. I’ll actually spend multiple hours today just reading this game from where I stopped reading all the way through just to make sure I didn’t miss anything.

[Andresvmb]

I want everybody to go back, read Page 45 (starting with 1102), and I want everyone here to tell me why we shouldn’t be executing Nero for that alone. When I talked about poor votes, this is the sort of thing I was thinking about. And please re-read my 2361 and with the information we have now, you can tell me where I’m wrong.

[Andresvmb]

isn't that pretty similar to this andres? https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12737267 (scroll down a little after)

In what sense?

[Andresvmb]

enchant attacks t3 -> vote gets put on enchant immediately after

Both Vasex and XP do it there.

I think Enchant is spewed Town I think that one is obvious and has already been stated so nothing new there. You know, I do think that if Nero flips Scum, we should consider executing Vasex. I really don’t like the slot at all and them calling me 100% Confirmed Scum is starting to annoy me. I maintain my view of XP though - I think some folks just SR their style, but I actually think they’re Town here. But let me expand on that a little more.

[Andresvmb]

The main reason I TR XP as I was re-reading was 769. I have a real hard time seeing that kind of post coming from Scum.

[Andresvmb]

it doesnt make sense for u to think nero is mafia but not xp

It isn’t Nero just defending T3 though now is it? You can’t minimize my case against Nero as they defended T3, ergo Scum. I have clearly posted a lot of my thoughts on Nero already, and they don’t all revolve around T3. I’m also in the middle of reading so maybe let my thoughts on both develop some more and I’ll get back to you.

[Andresvmb]

The main reason I TR XP as I was re-reading was 769. I have a real hard time seeing that kind of post coming from Scum.

i agree that xp is town but not cuz of that that can easily be posted by mafia

There are certain posts in context that are harder for Scum to fake. I think that one is one such post. Scum can talk about their strategy and tactics during games and still be Scum - I get that. But it just felt very natural to me. That’s all.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Nero Cain

I would prefer Vasex for their blatant openwolfing, but I am being pragmatic

I’m beginning to think that the best execution for today is Vasex actually. Above Nero, Cabd, or STD. What do you think?

[Andresvmb]

I still don’t really like Nero’s slot but it is quite possible that Cabd is Scum, and I’m just pushing a player with limited information that does indeed look bad from the flip and sees me tunneling them and thinks I’m trying to take advantage of the situation. This is possible.

[Andresvmb]

At the same time, every time I see a post from Nero as I re-read, it just seems so Scummy to me hahaha

[Andresvmb]

What about std and windows?

I don’t think I’m going to entertain your questions here. I think the chances that you’re Scum are quite high.

[Andresvmb]

Have you ever seen scums like me?

Chaos throwers that like to start fights amongst players (when they’re most likely Town), constantly defending their Partners and tunneling some select players who look like low hanging fruit? Yes.

[Andresvmb]

What fights among players did i start?

You were very clearly egging on the fight between Anastasia and Cabd D1, as an example.

[Andresvmb]

If cabd a town and i am alive, i will be the leader!!1 We'll elim anastasia or kitty then. Or enchant. More we wait in this difficult day - more bussing and pocketing and paranoia happens.

Just look at this post and tell me you’re not full of glee that the fight between them unfolded the way that it did.

[Andresvmb]

I feigned interest in a vasex wagon as to give the impression I would help push it through.

i wanted to see who would hop on.


2 of my scumreads, STD and Etine are on, and 1 scumlean, Marky Mark, as well as a Null scum in enchant. also the potential traitor T3 is there but since i know they are from Epicmafia I understand the logic they would use there wrt being cop - so theres town logic there I know they would have.

I do have to say, I’m horrified at this post. It’s totally backwards.

[Andresvmb]

I feigned interest in a vasex wagon as to give the impression I would help push it through.

i wanted to see who would hop on.


2 of my scumreads, STD and Etine are on, and 1 scumlean, Marky Mark, as well as a Null scum in enchant. also the potential traitor T3 is there but since i know they are from Epicmafia I understand the logic they would use there wrt being cop - so theres town logic there I know they would have.

I do have to say, I’m horrified at this post. It’s totally backwards.

It's my genuine reasoning? You see my unvote right as i came back to a wagon

The general positioning you’re expressing in that page is directly opposite to how I’ve felt reading back this game. You SR Mark (who is very Town), Etine (probably Town, though harder to figure out admittedly because it’s mostly based on their emotional reactions and not their pushes), and you had Enchant as Null Scum (spewed Town at this stage). You did TR T3 and defended them using a bad meta argument. And you were also defending Nero (wanting to give them breathing room) when I strongly SR there. I don’t recall a game where we’ve both been Town and we were so far apart in our reads. Maybe you want to tell me now how you see these slots? Or just point to the post?

[Andresvmb]

Also the theater that T3 and Vasex engaged in when they were both being run up and looked like either could go through as the execution is so obvious. Vasex will need to get executed in this game at some point. That much I’m fairly certain of.

[Andresvmb]

yeah Anastasia's reads depend heavily on how they're viewing her

she seems competent and smart so it's less likely she's town who just thinks anyone who suspects her is suspicious and more like wolf making calculated plays that are beneficial to her group project

This has crossed my mind. I find Anastasia to be a highly skilled player. Anastasia’s case in 1623 and 1624 against Cabd for example is, despite it being hard to prove (and I actually slightly TR Cabd to be totally transparent), very compelling. The fact that T3 also called Cabd hard Town actually also makes me question Cabd’s alignment in the back of my mind.

If Anastasia is Scum, it’s going to be challenging to figure it out.

[Andresvmb]

Anyway we should elim STD today.

Andre, I agree with you. At last.

Did you just manipulate a post of mine to say something I didn’t say? This is honestly horrible.

[Andresvmb]

Okay @Rathe, I’ve read closer. I understand your skepticism. I think there’s good reasons to SR XP here. I might have been wrong there.

[Andresvmb]

Okay @Rathe, I’ve read closer. I understand your skepticism. I think there’s good reasons to SR XP here. I might have been wrong there.

Vote!

I think there’s Scummier players this game. Like Nero.

[Andresvmb]

Cabd [3] - Nero Cain, samantha97, Save The Dragons
Andresvmb [3] - Dunnstral, NDMath, T3
Enchant [3] - Vasex, WindowsXP, Enchant

I also think all of the Scum this game are here.

[Andresvmb]

With the exception of maybe Anastasia, who could be Scum.

Oh and I don’t SR Samantha. Their vote for T3 was key. My mind is completely changed there.

[Andresvmb]

Look I’m going to be honest. From almost completely finishing reading D1 (and I’ve been active/reading for a lot of D2), I think the pool of {Nero Cain, Vasex, WindowsXP, NDMath} contains multiple Scum.

I would probably carry {Marky Mark, Enchant, Rathe, Kerset, Cabd (as the counterwagon to Scum), Samantha, and DGB} as Town unless something dramatic happens.

[Andresvmb]

I think that STD is going to flip Town as a result. Dunnstral is not a terrible alternative, actually. If we can’t get Nero, consolidating there to stop STD from happening is fine by me.

[Andresvmb]

I think ndmath is town this game

Okay but you’re defending Nero, and you think NDMath is Town. And obviously you’re going to argue that you’re Town. That’s a chunk of the pool of players I just said I think are Scum.

[Andresvmb]

Does anyone actually have good reasons to Townread STD?

Wagon composition.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Nero Cain

I would prefer Vasex for their blatant openwolfing, but I am being pragmatic

I think the leasher discussion leans them town here but i also thought t3 meta leaned them town here too so im willing to listen to another pov if you wanna convince me wrt vasex scum

Ah sorry this is on Vasex. Misread. Well replace Nero with Vasex in my argument and the point still stands.

[Andresvmb]

ND math can be town now. Other than the cabd vote I don't like how DGB was kinda throwing fuel onto the fire in 2928

dunn, t3, anya are prob voting scum but the chance we swing to an andre lynch is slim to none so join the cabd wagon.

enchant, self voting is dumb. I get it though but its time to move on.

bloodhail, Kerset stop voting town u dummies.

Anastasia prob won't join the cabd wagon b/c vasex is on it but he's not scum.

a50 being useless? no one saw that coming.

im not!

could I be wrong? sure but I feel like STD, math, vasex are all p town. If I'm wrong on any1 its Windows but eh. If my choices are between cabd wagon and t3 then Im not gonna join the wagon with dgb and etine just eww

Or you can just look at this and see the obvious.

[Andresvmb]

Andre you let emotions to take control of your judgement. Easy way to miselim.

Wagon composition.

That's rubbish "6 degress of separation" scumhunting, it never stands to scrutiny.

What? Yes it does. It’s absolutely valid to look at who is on a wagon to conclude whether an execution is likely to flip Town or Scum. I find it hard to believe that the only tool you use to figure out Town or Scum is their tone or reasoning and not their votes. What people actually do with the most important tool they have is quite important. It’s not definitive by any means. But it’s definitely useful information.

[Andresvmb]

Anyway we should elim STD today.

Andre, I agree with you. At last.

If vasex is scum (which is likely the case) then he just manipulated you like puppet master.

What are you saying here?

[Andresvmb]

I think that STD is going to flip Town as a result. Dunnstral is not a terrible alternative, actually. If we can’t get Nero, consolidating there to stop STD from happening is fine by me.

The reason why you just said this is because Vasex annoyed you and you emotionally wanted to do the opposite then the source of your anger.

No this is incorrect. I am looking at the wagon on STD and I genuinely think a lot of those players are suspicious. Having said that, I keep going back and forth on Vasex. I just find them so anti-Town that at some point we have to stop giving them leeway just because they’re putting literally all of their thoughts into the thread and think about whether it makes sense to execute there.

I think STD could flip either way, to be honest.

[Andresvmb]

is it really that hard to use the post tags?

3239 has the twinge of IIOA but vasex just doesn't seem all that scummy to me.

cabd is still scum but no one will vote him for some silly reason.

VOTE: kerset

Like seriously how is this not open wolfing this game? It’s baffling. Kerset sunk T3 with their research, which even though it had been mentioned before, was still important in driving for example Anya to voting for T3.

I really do believe that T3/Vasex were engaged in theater after T3 really started seeing tremendous pressure, and it’s a vote that’s quite likely to be a bus btw. I just wanted to reiterate that.

I re-read some posts from today from A50, and I feel reasonably okay with the slot. I don’t think A50 was being openly wolfy anymore (though I do think at this stage that defending me isn’t the hardest thing to do), since A50’s list of Town are not offensive to me in the slightest.

[Andresvmb]

@STD

Who is scum now?

Cabd, Dunnstral, Kerset, Samantha

maybe vasex, maybe ndmath, maybe anastasia

I hate this.

[Andresvmb]

I acknowledged that T3 was scum - but I saw that enchant wasn't voting and I wanted to see if they were going to hammer after all the talk they had all day. Them hammering there implies they are town 100%. If I'm scum there I know the gamestate and I just take that hammer to not "lose towncred".

I think this is one of the reasons that I have such strong mixed feelings of your slot. I don’t like that you are the one pointing it out, but yeah I think instead of making a whole point about how you wouldn’t hammer because it should self-resolve mechanically, you probably take the Town cred and execute T3 there. Maybe make more of a show about how your read progressed. And you clearly did signal that your read was changing because of the evidence that Kerset provided. But at that stage, you probably knew T3 was doomed and maybe still felt that the Town could screw it up if you didn’t jump on, gave it time. I’m just really bothered by a lot of your end of day posts from yesterday.

[Andresvmb]

Ok now why windows is town:
Look at your previous game and check which one is typical scum behavior

A

Scum first accuse their partners and then back off once wagon on them gets serious.

B

Scum first defend their partners and then hop in once wagon on them gets serious.

Observe your previous games and you will see that B is the common case.

Also look at windows arguments, I didn't agree with them but they were reasonable. You can even see that the previous site thing was real.

I’m not the only one doing it. And Kerset has a solid point here.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: cabd i still think this has a good shot of being scum

windows looks town
andres looks town
nero looks town

I think this is incredibly hard to justify. This whole thing. Believing that Nero/XP/Me is TvTvT is absurd.

[Andresvmb]

now like my reads make a few assumptions:

a) cabd is spewed town from d1 wagons.

b) enchant is town(this one is very solidly a yes)

c) andres is town (this one is not as solid but i would bet my life[in this game] on it)

d) kerset is town

e) there are at least 1-3 scum on the cabd d1 end of day wagon

I also really agree with this. I can’t in good faith push WindowsXP here. I think it’s a tough one, but I don’t think this is incorrect.

[Andresvmb]

I can't shake the feeling that the play I am seeing from andres in this game is different from what I've seen of him in another game, he felt more commanding and in control there. His play here has felt toned down in comparison. I may have said this before or I only thought it.

How is this a real take on my slot? What garbage.

[Andresvmb]

I think samantha97 looks the worst to me because I also caught her on another hot wagon! It's okay to sheep but I feel her votes are really lifeless, and the fact she was on one but two leading wagons makes me think she's not really thinking about her vote and placing it uselessly.

Scummy!

VOTE: samantha97

And this is a terrible take. Negative points for you.

[Andresvmb]

I think samantha97 looks the worst to me because I also caught her on another hot wagon! It's okay to sheep but I feel her votes are really lifeless, and the fact she was on one but two leading wagons makes me think she's not really thinking about her vote and placing it uselessly.

Scummy!

VOTE: samantha97

And this is a terrible take. Negative points for you.

Your 3791 though, that’s a decent take actually.

[Andresvmb]

I think samantha97 looks the worst to me because I also caught her on another hot wagon! It's okay to sheep but I feel her votes are really lifeless, and the fact she was on one but two leading wagons makes me think she's not really thinking about her vote and placing it uselessly.

Scummy!

VOTE: samantha97

And this is a terrible take. Negative points for you.

Your 3791 though, that’s a decent take actually.

I disagree. I don’t think Cabd is Scum here. But the way you’re looking at it isn’t bad, and the hardTown call did give me weird vibes.

[Andresvmb]

you are not scum then

and i advise you to look again in my list. i call nobody 100% scummy. just a range, there are some townies should be too.

you have only 1 scum cabd in recent posts. ok, now samantha too, surprise. but before that you have me and etine. if etine townie - you have at least two mistakes in your three scummies. if cabd townie - all your scummies are mistakes. And Dunnstral is too sure that you are a scum... You dont consider he is a scum... How to see townie in you? For what actions or words?
Your unvoting from Artemiana now is more important than your voting at her.

Btw Andre is 100% confirmed scum.
He broke under pressure like scum.
And he said that he has such a problem when he is a scum.
With promising to read, promising to be in game, and absense, absense

You keep doing you.

[Andresvmb]

Believing that Nero/XP/Me is TvTvT is absurd.

its not that hard to fathom

I don’t understand why you TR Nero. It’s the silliest take you have. I understand some of us are going to have to flip Town before you realize what is happening, but I really do find it highly unlikely.

Now, could they be playing really bad? Maybe? It’s just that their attacks on me in particular is so horrendous (arguing that I’m lying about T3’s wagon dying down? How my push wasn’t particularly strong?), it reeks of bad faith.

[Andresvmb]

I realize that he has and was going to get a ton of town cred for calling t3 scum and that I look "scummy" for fighting an uphill battle b/c I don't hold the same opinion as the rest of the room but if it takes Andre to bludgeon his way through a few townies for you guys to start questioning him then fine, that's just what it takes but I think he makes a ton of sense as someone that decided to distance from him (t3).

Like how do you read this and not think it’s absurd? Or totally laughable? Distancing?

I have said this more than a few times now so it is absolutely possible that I’m falling prey to horrible play when I put out SRs. But these takes ARE in bad faith. This isn’t the analysis of someone with a Town mindset. What Townies have I bludgeoned my way through here, exactly? This is just garbage, and it needs to be treated that way. If you want to TR these horrendous takes, then by all means. But these are obvious attempts at sidelining my views. Now, if we don’t execute Nero and Cabd flips Scum and STD flips Scum for example, then I’m going to have to recalibrate. But if you don’t think that both slots will flip Scum (and I don’t), then you are giving the slot way too much credit. And remember, T3 was Mafia Cop. If you don’t think the Scum had somewhat of an incentive to try and save the slot, then you’re not thinking clearly. If T3 had flipped Mafia Goon fine that’s one thing. This is different.

[Andresvmb]

i have reasons to townread all of u yes

Then expand on them. Because I truly would like to hear them. I didn’t buy the “independent thinking” that Kerset highlighted for Nero (which involved Nero pushing Enchant which we should know by now was probably just another shit push). So I want to see what you have to say about it.

[Andresvmb]

not even talking about the T3 defense overall hes been trying to solve the game to me

This isn’t good enough. So you think their reasoning for their SR of my slot holds up?

[Andresvmb]

Okay after finally reading every post in this damn game, I have it something like this.

Town
{Anya [Town Universal Backup]}
Strong Lean Town
{Marky Mark [Miller Claim]}
Lean Town
{Enchant, Rathe, Kerset, DGB [Cop Check, Town], KittyTacky [1-Shot Cop, Checked DGB]}
Slight Lean Town
{Etine [Lazy Babysitter Claim], deep-city-lights/bloodhail, Cabd, Samantha}
Neutral / Could Swing Either Direction
{SaveTheDragons, Artemiana/Anastasia, DeathNote/Almost50, WindowsXP [DkKoba], Vasex}
Slight Lean Scum
{NDMath, Dunnstral}
Lean Scum
{Nero Cain}
Scum
{T3 [1-Shot Bulletproof, Turning Into N1/N2 Cop Claim, Mafia Cop]}

I will probably have to ISO some of those slots I have in the Slight Town Lean down, but I’m exhausted now and I want to focus on some of the other games I’m playing.

[Andresvmb]

it is a big picture solving the game means u have good and bad reads

Sigh. It isn’t just a bad read. It’s a bad one with Scummy logic. Nero argued I “lied”. They didn’t analyze the wagons up until then and the movement and concluded that I was “exaggerating” or something like that (which I clearly wasn’t). They said that I was inflating my role in T3’s execution and that I lied. How is this acceptable to you?

[Andresvmb]

ur only town read is dead town...then a buncha leans

Fuck off.

[Andresvmb]

ur only town read is dead town...then a buncha leans

Fuck off.

I have always presented my reads in this fashion. I don’t call players Town or Scum with 100% certainty until we see their Role PMs. Go check ANY game I’ve played on this site if you want confirmation. Like this is just annoying.

[Andresvmb]

So far Andre case seems to be just Nero OMGUS

tbf i was calling andre scummy long b4 he even voted me.

Andresvmb

Artemiana
DrippingGoofball

are all scummy lurkers

his "case" on me is that I thought T3 was town so I must be scum.

honestly man, andre cheerleading the t3 wagon from the sidelines while vanity voting me and then when called on it lied and said his wagon "died" is like scum AF.

You said I lied. How am I misinterpreting your case against me? More garbage.

[Andresvmb]

Sigh. It isn’t just a bad read. It’s a bad one with Scummy logic. Nero argued I “lied”. They didn’t analyze the wagons up until then and the movement and concluded that I was “exaggerating” or something like that (which I clearly wasn’t). They said that I was inflating my role in T3’s execution and that I lied. How is this acceptable to you?

well i asked u in 3274 y u didnt vote for T3 i dont think u answered or saw it

Because it’s silly and you should know better. I have very strongly argued for 2 players as Scum in this game. Did you want me to vote for both of them simultaneously? Like what is the expectation here exactly? I couldn’t get T3 through when I came back I didn’t think because there was a lot of posting about how we should let the claim resolve itself. So I voted my next best guess in Nero. Regardless of what you think of my alignment, do you not believe that I would have voted T3 towards the end of the day given how strongly I was arguing against the slot? A simple yes or no would suffice.

[Andresvmb]

you said that I said that you were exaggerating and I never said that.

You CAN’T read. I said you said I lied. I would give you the benefit of the doubt a little if you had said I was exaggerating or something along those lines. That’s what I meant. Instead, you’re overstating your thoughts by arguing I deliberately pushed out a falsehood. That’s bullshit.