Newbie 2062: The Hubble Telescope - End!

[VFP]

Hi all!

Does anyone have an update while I read up properly?
I saw juicy claims I think!

[VFP]

whatever, I'm claiming, I'm the doctor, I'm literally dead tonight, so go find scum. thanks. I'm actually getting annoyed by the nonstop pushing on me from you

VOTE: andante

But I am willing to vote this through to elimination without Rathe outing if everyone agrees Rathe is strobgly implying something here.

I don't say I'm not a PR that rules Doc out. I say I am not Doc, just so we are crystal clear what I am claiming. Hypothetically, I am a PR who Pr-reads Rathe here.

Okay, first of all, we never lim the doc claim D1 without any sort of CC.
If we lose a PR to lim a scum, then so be it I couldn't care less.

Second, Andante claiming like this is going to be town. And I might even make them a double voter.

Third, Jackson is 100% town here.

Fourth, Rational is 100% town here.

I got all of that from 319 to 331 while checking Raithe's ISO.

So, Andante, who's scum?

[VFP]

Andante claimed Doctor.
Rational and Rathe both want to wagon them anyway and make Town not cc if there is one.
It's been a general 2v2 attack from Rational/Rathe and myself and Andante. With us trying to explain how stupid it is to not ask for ccs here.

Rational basically choosing to fall into confbias while telling everyone else it's confbias that they are not wagoning Andante. I say plenty of logic as to why ccing here is the best play, why Andante is likely town etc but they choose to actively ignore that every single time.

Unlucky for them we aren't going to lim the Doc claim.

I'll also stand strong that Qndante claims early as town PR. I am not going.to discuss further on this though.

Who's scum for you Jackson?

[VFP]

T3
Ivyeo
Demainer
orctin
Rathe

2 scum here.

[VFP]

Andante seems like real doc here. And I think that would explain the initial panic and bad reaction.
Rational might be town but has flawed logic. VOTE: Rathe

I like this T3 vote.
Rathe goes high up for me as without claiming and just standing behind Rational makes them safe for tomorrow on a Doc flip.

[VFP]

Would scum!rathe actually try to keep a vote on a PR claim? Assuming Andante is Town, as if Andante is scum Rathe is a valid partner.

Yeah I can see that happening. Rathe wasn't as vocal as Rational.
Doc flip means we lim Rational who flips town and then that's 2 days later...

A scum flip would highly suggest Rathe as Doc anyway so not claiming here isn't something I see town doing.

I also don't think Andante and Rathe ever become to scum pair here. There's no need to bus your buddy on a PR claim like that. 8v1 night 1 is nearly always a loss for scum.
Not to mention that scum then rule out a column possibility by admitting Doc is a possible role.

[VFP]

T3-Rathe-Jackson - so i need to look at these 3 - right now i'm betting there is a scum in here - and might be the better play - we eliminate one of them - scum can decide to eliminate Rational tonight just to make the game thread less aggressive (and we probably would all shoot him if we could, lets be honest) - and we carry on the next day

This would suggest that if scum, so is T3.
But I could be wrong here.

@orctin

Can you touch base on this more?
Let's go over why these 3 are scum?

[VFP]

VOTE: Rathe

This is E-1

Comes back, still voting, no CC

Is this town to anyone?

[VFP]

we definitely have at least 1 scum in clasko t3 orc ivy.

Demainer looks pretty town to me.

it outs the setup for scum, not the prs. they still need to hunt for pr

This is just town minded here.

[VFP]

Which to me leaves T3 as very probably Scum

Why is T3 scum then?

Far as those questioning myself - i'm town - You dont see me trying to jump on a vote right now in trying to save myself - i'm trying to let town sort our who would be the good choice today at this point

So why should I consider you as town than scum pretending this for credit?

Also - Dont think we aren't looking your way as well

Scare tactics won't make me back down for the record.
I'm not here to look town to you. I'm putting scum in the seat today.
You are one of 5 players that can be scum.

[VFP]

Vote: T3

There - to clarify my position

Great, at least that tells me that you weren't only trying to distance with T3.
So let me hear the case on why T3 is scum. I think I have enough experience with T3 to know what people should wrongly see as scum posts.

[VFP]

By that are you agreeing with me or otherwise? Your wording here is somewhat confusing.
The doctor claimant is NOT flipping today, that's final and even if they did Rational wouldn't be the push post-flip imo.

A frustrated scum!andante could 100% do this play here and Rathe either in coordination or out of opportunistic nature does this in return to either set up a possible Tracker claim (as to why they are refusing to claim) or reap in the town-cred if Andante gets flipped or Masonry claims.

I meant can't not can sorry.
It's a possibility of course, but I'll need a lot.to see that. I also know that Andante claims early as PR.

[VFP]

Yes.

Anyway, let's see where this goes then.
VOTE: T3

@T3

full reads?

[VFP]

VFP please claim this is essential, if you are PR claim very fast, I am willing to vote you if you are not.

I don't claim for the sake of it. If you think I'm scum then vote me.

[VFP]

Yes.

Anyway, let's see where this goes then.
VOTE: T3

@T3

full reads?

Town: Andante
Lean town: JV, VFP, Demainer
Null: orctin
Lean scum: Rational, Ivy
Scum: Rathe

What changed with Andante to go from lying to telling the truth?

[VFP]

I was wring jailkeeper would rule out doc in goon-goon setup. Jackson virgonis correct. However, I do still assert that if this is goon-goon it's the most optimal setup to do what Andante did as scum because regardless of if CCd ir not, scum turn around to a massively even game role-wise once forcing PR to cc or lack thereof

Swapping confirmed scum day 1 for any PR is something I'll always take.
If we have masons there is no reason for just 1 to not come out and claim here.
The same with a JK. A lim on scum means that JK can claim who they will target and we have either a clear or JK is still alive.

So to make it clear, if anyone does not claim today masons or JK, but claims at a later day I will auto vote them for lying. If they CC I will trust them 100% and lim Andante here.
The same for a Doc claim.

A doc is always going to be killed by scum eventually because it's a role they just can't afford to have lying around. This is in the mindset of 2 Goons.
If scum have a roleblocker then maybe so.

If there is a cop, it may be worth checking Andante to rule out 2 Goons (or find scum)

[VFP]

Andante had a very good reaction after te whole rage quit thing and I do not like Rational andRathe tunnelling.

So outside of my town pool (Andante, Jackson, Radition)

Who should I vote?

[VFP]

You realise the more you just sit there saying this kind of stuff the more I'll just ignore your view all game, right?
If you want me to listen to anything you have to say then give me a decent read outside of a claim or someone agreeing with you.

Also, that question was to T3, I want to know who T3 thinks I should vote for.

[VFP]

I was asking T3, not you. Like I said.

[VFP]

I have given more than decent reads all game.

I disagree.
Your reads are unreliable considering your main approach is to lim a claimed doc with no CC and that your strongest town is the 1 person following you.
This shows that it doesn't take scum a lot to be town read by you, it's just a case of telling you that you're right.

I dont pander to egos.

[VFP]

get T3 to 4 votes n i will hammer

If T3 is scum I think Rathe has a good chance of his buddy.
It's obvious that Andante is not going to be the lim today, yet Rathe isn't voting where else he thinks is scum.

It seems like Rathe is trying to scare people from voting T3 hoping we move else where.

Ivy I read and I don't think that they are scum.

T3 I normally have a town read for particular post styles but I haven't seen it yet.
And this makes me think T3 that he is actually scum.

There doesn't seem to be anyone voicing as T3 town either, but yet there seems a huge dis interest in actually voting here?
If anyone has a read on T3 whatever alignment it is, I'm all ears with this.

[VFP]

Regardless of alignments or who we think is scum, let's just chill a bit.

@Rational

I was being unfair by saying I won't listen.
I'll read what you have to say but I do think you are just letting yourself tunnel and to someone who I think is town from meta alone.
There's a reason that your view isn't popular of Andante as scum. Without making this into a dig, it's because you are most likely wrong here.

If you want to convince me that Andante is scum, then try tomorrow if they are alive. I can then at least work with you on it.
But for today I think we move on from the Andante lim and at least find their partner.

And I appreciate that you are working towards this and voting T3 who you think can be scum.

On a side note. If asteria was confirmed town, do you think T3 is still scum, and whoever would you look at?

[VFP]

And whoelse would you look at*

[VFP]

That's E1. Time to claim T3.

[VFP]

I think T3 claims PR there as scum.
I think I would have unvoted on a PR claim though. However, I'm interested in seeing if Rathe hammers.

Convince me in the mean time to vote Rathe, T3.

[VFP]

UNVOTE: T3
I can give you some time.

[VFP]

@Demainer

T3 read?

[VFP]

On a side note. If asteria was confirmed town, do you think T3 is still scum, and whoever would you look at?

[VFP]

Sorry my phone auto corrected I think. I mean Andante

[VFP]

Btw if I die at night know this: JacksonVirgo is not towntelling if Andante is real Doc. Everything they (pronoun they/them, referring to the single JV, not to Andante) have done is what Scum who want to towntell hard later on would play the situations they've been in.


From the start of thr day phase to now, JacksonVirgo has appeared to have an agenda to force me to back away from Andante or to frame me as scum. When Andante outs as Doc, JV instantly believes it and puts on a spectacular display of aggression but why? Why were they so hostile ans sure? Why is it that since then, JV has merely dedicated to pushinge to feel unhappy rather than contribute anything worthwile?

Odd. It's all odd. T3 also is odd for other reasons a d that team JV and T3 would have played the day how they did... Hmm

I see what you're saying, but I believe that Jackson has a defensive way of approaching things. Which can easily be seen as passive aggressive. I'm not set on this but I've seen enough to warrant this being the case.

Although I have Jackson as town right now I can see them playing the buddy card because if scum, they know its true.
I don't see anything to back this up yet though.
Does Jackson only flip scum on an Andante town flip?

T3 I agree, this is different posting to what I'm used to. However, T3 is always LHF I find, and can be seen as an easy mis lim. But I'm not impressed yet.

[VFP]

Well stick around and T3 will be back.

[VFP]

this doesnt make sense im not being vague i said what i said get T3 to e4 n i will hammer

Then vote T3, and I'll hammer if I'm not satisfied with the discussion.

[VFP]

If T3 is scum I think Rathe has a good chance of his buddy.

how n y

Well for a start, I don't think you scum read T3. You saying you will hammer means nothing when you are just wasting your vote.
Put a vote on T3 if you're scum reading there.

Your approach to the whole Doc claim feels fake and you're just trying to be in rationals shadow so Rational takes the blame on a mid lim.

You trying to hint at being a counter PR without a CC it was scummy because it gives you an easy fall back of just being wrong town.

And did I mention you are sitting a vote on someone you know we aren't going.to lim today? It's because you don't want to make reasons to justify a vote swap, and instead hope to lay under the radar.

Maybe I'm wrong, I'll listen.

[VFP]

Then vote T3, and I'll hammer if I'm not satisfied with the discussion.

no i will do it

Well if you happen to disappear after T3 gets back (I think it's soon?) Then I'll just push for you lim.
The fact you won't vote T3 says it all. If he's scum it shouldn't matter who votes.

[VFP]

Maybe I'm wrong, I'll listen.

u r wrong i dont care about being wrong i dont think i am n i dont care about changing votes

Solid case.

[VFP]

Okay, possible scum teams are as follows with T3 and Rathe.

T3 + Ivy
T3 + Jackson (don't mistake my town read here)
T3 + Demainer
T3 + Orc (though this is weak)

Rathe + Ivy
Rathe + Demainer
Rathe + Orc

I changed my mind on T3 and Rathe as buddies.

[VFP]

i vote for mafia

There's 2 mafia.
I dont think you get it. I don't care if you don't vote with me, I care that you park your vote and refuse any attempt to solve.
If Andante is scum, then Andante has a scum buddy.

This is what makes me have doubt as you town.

[VFP]

T3 + Ivy
T3 + Jackson (don't mistake my town read here)
T3 + Demainer
T3 + Orc (though this is weak)

@T3

reads on these players?

[VFP]

VOTE: Rathe

[VFP]

Try me.

[VFP]

VOTE: T3

In fact, here's your chance to hammer.

[VFP]

Well thats that then.
If Andante doesn't die tonight, we can look at the lim there tomorrow.

[VFP]

Scum T3 Andate is always town.
Town T3 Andante is actually scum and I'll explain tomorrow

[VFP]

Don't discuss anything right now.
T3 should give those reads if time if town.

If scum it doesn't matter.

[VFP]

I don't think scum ever bus T3 there.
Rathe is the only one who was backed in the corner but I town read Rathe for sticking around and dropping the hammer.

So after a read during the night I am at the following.

Ivy
Rational
Orc
Rathe

Jackson

Dem

VOTE: Demainer

[VFP]

I think the tracker should claim today and say who they checked.
It either wins the game (if tracker hasn't posted) or ensures that a confirmed town can lead the game tomorrow.

I say this because the pool of tracker is small and I doubt me, Rathe, or Radiant will be killed tonight due to this fact.

It's food for thought though and I'd suggest the tracker not claiming until hearing people's views on this.

Or we just lim Dem and assume we win this way.

[VFP]

I don't get it.
Do I pick someone who looks scum or someone I think is town?

[VFP]

If I am correct, I spotted VFp softing Tracker with an innocent report on Ivyeonjust above where I voted Demainee. That's also why I voted Demainer as I was then certain Demainer wasn't Tracker.

Yeah I wanted it to be obvious Ivy was tracked on my death.
Tried to make myself look not tracker though for the 3 confirmed next day attempt.

[VFP]

Spoiler:

I didn't expect my read as genius, I expected to read others' reactions including the Doc's. In every single way Andante acted as a mafia claiming Doc would, every single read she had is what scum would force to distract away from them. She never answered any ofy questions or gave reasoning behind her reads beyond someone voting her or being lurky.

No they didn't, and I explained why many times yet you kept to your ego-read.[/quote

]
Mhmm, I accept you were superior at reading Andante than I was.

I was the second voter on both bandwagons that got scum eliminated, so you may think I'm this or that but in the end I got the job done.

I also admit I'd play hardball as scum, so I don't blame anyone who scumread me though I wouldn't bus my role cop just like that lol.

It's not that I was superior at all. It's just you were tunneled so hard you didn't see how the way they acted cleared them as well as even if I was wrong, you should never wagon there without a cc.

Thanks for the game all, and thanks fferyllt for modding.
I think Rational moving away from Andante end of day 1 really helped for progress of the game, its hard sometimes when your mind is set on something and happens to a lot of people including me, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Good try though scum, I think Andante and Rational being obvious town really didn't help your chances, just unfortunate here.

[VFP]

Andante being obvtown was a certain with their claim lol
Rathe/Rational both being obvious town was unfortunate though yeah.

I wouldn't say certain.
At first it looked like a Doc wanted to CC but didn't think docs should.
I just think Andante just loves claiming early as town!