Newbie 2062: The Hubble Telescope - End!

[orctin]

Cause it's a good play for a scummie to push on anther who made a high profile post. at the very least it attracts attention where scum want it - away from them.

Hello all, first game here but i know the game playing elsewhere so thought i would finally try my hand here.

[orctin]

So at this point most the basis or accusations on because of Andante's opening post and Rationals response to it. Logically scum doesn't want to try to attract attention early on, it's better play for them to try to lay low to some extent and let town make mistakes lynching their own. Except for that rare scummie who just doesn't care and wants to go gun's a blazing

Rational seems to be a heavy poster - quick to search out rabbit holes it seems
Andante - aside from one joke post which was probably cause she played with that person before, nothing much
T3 seems to be reactive - Basically questioning post from different people
Demainer basically a simple - someone is guilty post with nothing behind it
Jackson - seems to a fun early post - then a logical one
Ivy - couple simple short post, nothing more

If i had to gut read anyone right now it would be Rational - playing the guns a blazing scummie out to prove themselves town to quickly

Vote: Rational

Since ya'll seem to like the early voting without much backing it or chance for people to discuss much yet, but it's also day 1 so probably not going to get a lot out of people

[orctin]

and teach me to learn - didnt' see we were on page 3 - i was still on just page 1

[orctin]

Like i said - i was still just on page 1

Your basically pushing extremely hard to try to make yourself look like a good townie trying to solve the whole dame on day 1 with little to nothing to back up that information your trying to deduce. Perhaps this who you are - i refer to that as people chasing rabbit holes, and your neck deep in them already

And agree with T3, he's bandwagonning basically at this point

[orctin]

64 was not good

I agree - i posted not realized we were 2 more pages into the game - sorry 1st game here so i'm getting up to speed

But most the early page 1 reads i had still the same - someone is trying way to hard and now is stuck riding that train rest of day now cause it's where they put themselves

[orctin]

As opposed to a train of inactivity or fluffposts?

Like i said - it could be the way you play - everyone has their style that people get to know over time - i have no idea, but my history of the game tells me two things - either or a townie who's just quick to look for anything, multiple post, calling out people for basically fun post to start the day, quick to link poeple together - or your a scummie overplaying the townie role

Trust me, i know - i used to be that guy

[orctin]

Town:RM
Lean town: Rathe, Ivy
Null: Clasko
Lean scum: orctin, Andante
Scum: Dem

So basically anyone with Rathe is town - anyone who questions him is scum

Only scum read in absolutes on Day 1 with no info there

If they are masons then at this point they might as well say so cause by what being said scum already know - if not then it's a sidetrack arguement to sow doubt among town

[orctin]

Interesting start to the game and quite an active day 1 but i think a lot of that came from Rational's stirring.

Honestly right now the most questionable on seems to be T3
Andante got caught up by Rational's early post so not really sure there
Ivyeo seems to be active but basically making simple post to appear participating with town without doing much to offend
Rathe - Similar - to Ivyeo
Jack - hasn't posted much except early
Clasko - good cover for that scum laying low but probably town
Demainer - still never explained that Ivy is scum vote post

If i was to guess - one of Rathe-Jack-Clasko-Ivy is scum
the other is with the rest of us (present company excluded)

[orctin]

The whole day started about your fun post early one - and been sidetracked since - so i dont have much a read on you yet

[orctin]

Same, but i think thats just who he is - or his style - he seems to run in spurts there quick to judgement and throwing accusations just to see what sticks

[orctin]

Jack - I'm basing off two 2 scum - one being active and posting - hoping to control - the other more laid back - you fit into the later group but with multiple people.
I think it's rare you get 2 scum who are both pushing heavy but it's possible but i would suspect one scum in the heavy chatters and one in the more reserve chatters

And you seriously say Rational is more town for his half cooked reads early on just to make them, lol. interesting

[orctin]

Honestly Day 1 is always a Crapshoot - and odds are against town with any day 1 vote cause it's just to easy to basically have 2 townies facing off against each other which i am starting to wonder if that's what is happening with Rational and Andante. At which case then need to think about who's really egging the two sides on - there's your scummie

I would need to read back to look that way at the last few pages, as busy at work so do it later, but i would suspect your best scum target isn't one of them, but someone on the side wanting to keep attention there.

Vote: NoVote

[orctin]

Unvote

Yes cause you came in guns a blazing

Where's the day 1 hello how are you - lets have fun things. It's just straight to lynching people cause they told a joke

[orctin]

Well things seem to have settled a little and actually got some rational discussion there with T3 and Jack.

Rational, And dont take offense i'm just talking, your that type player that comes out swinging. You started that way and haven't really stopped. I tend to find those people more distracting and a more time than not going down wrong roads cause they get caught up in the poking people to poke them playstyle. You Poke on players with the only purpose to get a reaction from them, then read any reaction that is pushing back at you as scum. To me it's a bad game play. And earlier you mentioned my comment about scum laying back - if you look you will find i noted that generally 1 scum lays back - the other plays more in the open.

[orctin]

When i noted a while back some reads Andante was included on that list

See thats something i've seen you do 3-4 time now - post half truths, you take one piece of something someone says - pounce on it - yet ignore the rest - this is why i'm suspect of you - you tend to take one piece of something and then try to use it against people taking things out of context or putting the whole info there when you do - this is to me a scum read cause that's how scum lie, you have to mix in truth with the lie so it looks more believable and townies can see the piece you are using but if they aren't looking hard enough then they fall into the trap of taking that half post as what was actually said

[orctin]

it took you 5 post to say that

[orctin]

"you knowing lied about me lying"

See this is what i mean - i didn't say you lied - i said you take half a statement and try to use it without the whole reference - and i said this is how scum lies - by using half truths - i didn't say "you lied" - so if your going to call something out - call out all of it - not just what helps you make your argument

[orctin]

you also could just be town who likes to troll and provoke.

And check the mirror there cause that is all you been doing since the game started - That's been my point about you just about the whole game and hasn't changed - it doesn't make you scum - i've pretty well determined it's your playstyle - for good or bad, its what you do.

[orctin]

Yea Rational - i withdrew the vote on you cause i came to conclusion it was your playstyle and while i might not like it, its not a reason on it's own to vote you so i wanted to pull back and just watch a bit more and think about it - the games i normally play are more the role madness (i think that's what they call it here(, i have rarely played a game where we have majority vanilla players so this whole game setup is knew to me, but why i came here, cause i wanted to try different styles

I tend to agree at this point that T3, Demainer and Clasko are now my thought for a scum player, one of the three most likely
I think Ivy is just posting to enjoy being in the game, not much more
Andante i'm unsure of what to make of her at this point still - she could be the scum player who is playing as hard town sell or just a townie
Jackson, he worries me. I feel he can blend in either way as scum or town, and he would probably be aware as scum to keep his playstyle similar to a townie, if he is scum he's going to be a hard out to get probably
Rathe is just feel mainly eehh, dont read much of anything from his yet
Rational I already pulled my vote from, for now. I took his aggressive play wrong early so think it's more a wait and see on him, him and Andante are both ones to watch but could both end up town or scum

[orctin]

I will be going out Larping this weekend so if i'm quiet for a day or so i'll be back in Sunday to check up

[orctin]

Getting back to the real world in hour, we slew the bandits, killed tge giant queen ant and saved the tavern
So whats going on here game, everyone still beating each other. Read back soon.

[orctin]

T3-Rathe-Jackson-Andante-Rational

The 2 scummies are most likely of these 5

The Doc claim - I can understand it from both sides, Andante seems to a person who doesn't do a lot of arguing in the way this day has gone, and i see a point of frustration for her (and sadly this is why a lot of new people dont stick with mafia cause these types or arguments happen a lot, and are part of the game) - Taking this into consideration - if my read on Andante is correct - then even as scum i dont think she would fake claim doctor, she would just say "fuck it, i'm scum, eliminate me so i get having to deal with rational" - So i actually think she's telling the truth - If she's not then she made a hell of a play for someone that "appears frustrated easy"

I would love to eliminate Rational - just cause i disapprove of the playstyle, you can be argumentative and aggressive, but he takes it to a whole nother level it seems, that's why i original voted for him, cause this is more a bully playstyle than anything - sorry but just my thoughts. But does that make him scum, I'm still unsure of him cause he totally could be.

T3-Rathe-Jackson - so i need to look at these 3 - right now i'm betting there is a scum in here - and might be the better play - we eliminate one of them - scum can decide to eliminate Rational tonight just to make the game thread less aggressive (and we probably would all shoot him if we could, lets be honest) - and we carry on the next day

[orctin]

Noting - at this point - both scum wouldn't be voted for same player - too riskly

Rathe (3): T3, Andante, Ivyeo
Andante (2): RationalMadman, Rathe
orctin (2): Clasko, JacksonVirgo
Clasko (1): Demainer

So those players voted on same player - are not teamed together in my opinion - so even if we miss-elim i would lean to knowing a couple of townies

[orctin]

Whatever poor soul would shoot someone as useful to Town as me is hilarious. Hope that you vote Andante and then them (just kidding this game has no gun).

You haven't been useful, you've been antagonistic the whole game, basically playing as if this is a one man game and the rest of us are along for the ride

[orctin]

scum can decide to eliminate Rational tonight just to make the game thread less aggressive (and we probably would all shoot him if we could, lets be honest) - and we carry on the next day

Is this a slip?

where i play used to mafia shooting people as their night action - no idea how it's worded here, if i see different then i will word different

[orctin]

Reading back Rathe's immediate vote on Andante after her Doctor claim is concerning - i think at this point even if Rathe isn't eliminated Day 1 scum will have hard time not night killing them the coming night - it was too quick a reaction to not do so, which if true would make Andante scum. It's the only logic to Rathe's quick vote i can see.

I mean even a scum player should have a pause to the claim instead of the quick vote.

[orctin]

You haven't been useful, you've been antagonistic the whole game, basically playing as if this is a one man game and the rest of us are along for the ride

From everyone's perspective that is the case. What is your one man ride doing? Why are you voting nobody?

After backing of the vote on you just cause i disliked your playstyle i'm waiting for a reason to vote - hoping to find something more logical than "they scum read me" or "you wont answer me" - or what ever else some quick votes have been based on so far. Plus i was out for couple days so been reading back and letting the couple days allow me some fresh perspective there.

[orctin]

i think at this point even if Rathe isn't eliminated Day 1 scum will have hard time not night killing them the coming night

You are seriously obsessed with the scum NK. Why would that be

Not sure what your asking - where i play scum get 1 kill every night - as a player what they do each night does effect things so why would i not be concerned?

[orctin]

T3-Rathe-Jackson - so i need to look at these 3 - right now i'm betting there is a scum in here - and might be the better play - we eliminate one of them - scum can decide to eliminate Rational tonight just to make the game thread less aggressive (and we probably would all shoot him if we could, lets be honest) - and we carry on the next day

This would suggest that if scum, so is T3.
But I could be wrong here.

@orctin

Can you touch base on this more?
Let's go over why these 3 are scum?

Right now I dont think Rathe is scum - his vote after the doctor claim was too immediate and to telling now
Jackson - He started out slow but has come on lately - he's making logical post and discussions so i have no reason to question his alignment at this time
Which to me leaves T3 as very probably Scum

Far as those questioning myself - i'm town - You dont see me trying to jump on a vote right now in trying to save myself - i'm trying to let town sort our who would be the good choice today at this point

Also - Dont think we aren't looking your way as well - the player you were replacing was on the questionable list of a few people - your doing a good job swaying those thoughts at this time - we will have to see long right

Right now i think T3 is the best vote to eliminate - Andante and Rational need to get off each other and look to better choices - and i have no idea why i have pinged Jackson's radar - but town needs to come together on a vote and one we all or at least majority agree on

[orctin]

Vote: T3

There - to clarify my position

[orctin]

I doubt that a real doc claims with 2 votes. This feels like scum knowing they wil die and drawing out PRs early.

Demainer looking townie. JV/Andante may actually be a viable scumteam.

Andante's entire reads have been based on who scumreads her and she has had zero input outside of that. Then when pressure is applied she defaults to AtE, and then a PR claim.

I doubt that a real doc claims with 2 votes. This feels like scum knowing they wil die and drawing out PRs early.

Andante seems like real doc here. And I think that would explain the initial panic and bad reaction.
Rational might be town but has flawed logic. VOTE: Rathe

T3 seems to be playing both sides of the fence here - Andante is scum, Cant be real doc, is real doc, votes for rathe but doesn't really followup on the logic of Rathe's vote. T3 been on a scum side most game and hasn't give much reason to put town side - so when i reduced to those 3 i mentioned before and process of elimination - T3 stands out to me

[orctin]

Reading back Rathe's immediate vote on Andante after her Doctor claim is concerning - i think at this point even if Rathe isn't eliminated Day 1 scum will have hard time not night killing them the coming night - it was too quick a reaction to not do so, which if true would make Andante scum. It's the only logic to Rathe's quick vote i can see.

I mean even a scum player should have a pause to the claim instead of the quick vote.

Lampshading to the max, you know you slipped in the previous post, and now you're covering it up by doubling down.

Slipped what - i'm just talking - if your taking something as "i slipped" then please allow us to know so the whole town knows there
Cause right now all i'm seeing is sometime pushing the vote to the side instead of looking at the real scum targets

[orctin]

This reasoning is really weird, why would you base our elim today on who scum will kill tonight? Not town at all.

This was simple a stab at Rational for his playstyle - I dont approve of it just as i haven't the whole game - but as i have said - this doesn't make him scum - and if scum night killed him just to make the thread less aggressive i would have no issue with it

You want to take it wrong go ahead, but doesn't change my opinion of someone who was bullying the thread most the entire day and i dont have issue saying as much.

[orctin]

Hardleaning scum on orc now, he enjoys the chaos in the thread and is simply fueling the flames. Entire iso is just nonstop fossing everyone and constantly changing positions, the reasoning is forced and directed more by the conclusions rather than actual logic. He quite literally insinuated that one of andante/rational was scum when that was convenient, then immediately in the next post, changes tack and says both of them are town and anyone "egging them on" is scum. His latest reads change has absolutely no progression, they are all based more on the thread environment than actual thoughts, there's no real attempt to make sense of the game.

and obviously you haven't paid attention as i explained multiple time my whole reasoning on the early vote on Rational and why i changed it later

Who you trying to protect there?

[orctin]

Did you catch up more than when you said I was in the scum-pool? Mind explaining what posts of mine is logical etc. Also is this a null or town read as you never said.
I agree that Rational/Andante need to look elsewhere as it's only putting a stump in Town's progress.

I'm sorry, i said you made logical post and i didn't have a good read which way you leaned and your questioning me on it?? So if i complement you on making good conversation thats a bad thing?

[orctin]

Any player who doesn't think about whom scum will kill at night isn't playing the whole game - that's part of the game here is not only trying to eliminate scum - but also trying to anticipate what they will do with their own actions - or should town just stick their head in the sand and go "not it" - and it would seem the way you guys play here, it's another way to read people. since this seems to be the entire obsession here - so why only play with half a deck?

[orctin]

"Jackson - He started out slow but has come on lately - he's making logical post and discussions so i have no reason to question his alignment at this time "

I said i dont have a read on you - you dont lie anywhere for me at this point and i'm not going to jump to one way or the other as i have no clear decision on that - 'm not going to lump you one way or another just for the sake of doing so

[orctin]

I've played for 6 years on forum games elsewhere that are more what they refer to as "role madness" i think - i have rarely played a majority VT minumal game but wanted to try new things. I also run my own Discord Mafia game with 20-30 player average games which is also more "everyone has roles" and i play on a "Werewolf" discord server which is more based on Town of Salem - Coven addition - so yea - playing here is totally new to me and the whole game mechanics and how yall play i'm having to learn on the fly

[orctin]

orc, what do you think of ivy, rathe, claskoslot

I dont understand his vote on Andante - i noted that a little earlier - he made an almost immediate reaction vote to the Doc claim - as if he knows something but wont say what and will most likely get killed tonight to bury whatever it is - the way he voted makes me second guess Andante's alignment - To me he just needs to come out with a proper reason for that vote - explain whats' up and lets deal with it - i understand the game here everyone whats to keep hidden what they are to not allow scum to find the pr's but i think that cat's out of the bag now to be honest.

Ivy - she's cute but minimal post/play it seems to me

Clasko/VFP - VFP just joined - he's making a good catchup attempt to get into the game as he just replaced a player so i cant really fault him for anything yet - needs more time

It's to early for me to decide where to put Ivy and VFP at this time - I would lean to waiting for some deaths and starting to put the pieces together better once we actually have more information and something to look at - their play today, Votes, and who flips what will help provide that.

[orctin]

Rathe is just kinda riding Rational's wave, so Rathe could be scum tunneling.

Rathe is the first to vote you/keep vote on you after your claim. So I find it hard to conceptualize why scum!them would do that

That's my biggest issue as well - and the only real thing that hit me that andante could be faking it - not saying she is but something just didn't add up there.

[orctin]

Demainer, i didnt jump the wagon, i started it if you check the votes. If he flips turn, ill be the first person everyone blames. And took him till 4 votes up to try to fight against it.

But i do love how your distraction from t3 is to come after me.

[orctin]

Then vote T3, and I'll hammer if I'm not satisfied with the discussion.

no i will do it

Is there some bonus im unaware of about being the final vote, lol

[orctin]

@T3

full reads?

Town: Andante
Lean town: JV, VFP, Demainer
Null: orctin
Lean scum: Rational, Ivy
Scum: Rathe[/quote]

Lets just refresh that one

At this time this post was made T3 wasn't really being voted much - just myself i think so his Scum note on Rathe makes me put him low on the partner list

Right now i'm looking at Demainer, Rational, Jackson, Ivy as the top scum partners - it's to late in the night at moment for me to really go back and reread a lot to looks for more clues for links to T3, will do so tomorrow after work

I had taken noted of peoples townreads/scumreads - (up to the past weekend i was out for 2 days)
T3's included Ivy, Rational, Rathe
His scum reads included Demainer, orctin(myself) Andante, Rational
(i had gone thru making a cross list of everyone's scum/town reads but that was before i was out the past weekend so wasn't updated past then, I can post that cross-list if anyone wants it but you can easily build one as well)

Demainer - Your top of my list right now and love to hear how you plan to react to Day 2 now

Rational's sudden "i'm going to back seat", and his claiming to be "instrumental in the T3 elim " as the first post of day 2 is suspect

[orctin]

Demainer is the one i would fist vote but would like to hear from him first so waiting on that cause scum can easily be someone else but he was the one most pushing me so naturally i'm pushing his way to start

And i do agree - at this point if the tracker does come out an claim it will clear 2 people and narrow the pool list down - in our position i think town can easily win this with the right vote today. Worst case it forces the remaining scum to fake claim a tracker as well which i dont see them doing.

[orctin]

Yea to be honest i dont get it either - Your basically asking everyone to fake claim tracking someone to "clear them" - Then what - asking the tracker to what - verify someone's fake claim?? And you basically are asking every townie to Lie, so when the tracker does call someone out - well of course they are lying.

Sorry but in my history of Mafia - Town doesn't lie - it's a golden rule

[orctin]

I will start this.

I cleared Orc, their SR on Rathe seemed somewhat forced to me yestergameday.

I pretty sure your mistaken about me SR'ing Rathe - What i said is "i questioned his immediate vote on Andante after he claimed doctor - I didn't understand it and made me question if at the time he had some info that cause him to vote cause Andante was lying" - which we now know he wasn't - You can check back yourself, i just looked - i mentioned this a couple of time as his vote had me wondering about Andante's claim - his vote as an almost immediate response to the doctor claim didn't make sense to me.

[orctin]

So rathr is going to try and pretend that yesterday was a rxn test

it was a reaction test i dont have to pretend

can i just say if that's true has to be strangest thing i seen - to immediately vote to elim the Doctor after he claims as a test of what - see who would vote with you - i had others i'm higher on to suspect but this kind of thing adds a point your side of the scum scale for me, about like trying to get everyone to fake claim a tracker result to just add enough confusion for scum to blend in well. Some odd logic around this parts

[orctin]

Vote: Demainer

(that make it E-1 - i think yall call it

If i am the tracker then Ivy is innocent and didn't go anywhere

[orctin]

Your right - Let's hope it's a good one - check in the morning

[orctin]

Thanks for the game and to the Host for Hosting.
Interesting game, Rational i was still 75% sure was the other scummy but Demainer was up there as well so went with it. For sure a lot of playstyles in effect here and good fun to see them in action and play with yall.