Open 811 - Lovers and Losers [Day 1]

[yessiree]

Status: Day 1

Playerlist

1. T-Bone
   
2. LlamaFluff
   
3. Kerset
   
4. Rational Madman
   
5. Vex Vience
   
6. Bingle
   
7. Anastasia
   
8. Klick
   
9. Bambi Jay

*Indicates a prod

Spoiler: Alive

Spoiler: Dead

[yessiree]

Rules

General

1. Follow all site rules
   
2. HAVE FUN
   
3. Play to your win condition
   
4. Be excellent to one another
   
5. No discussion of other on-going games
   
6. No deliberate obfuscation of text
   
7. No provable randomness or cryptography
   
8. No talking after death (one contentless "Bah" post is allowed)
   
9. No editing or deleting posts
   
10. No outside communications unless otherwise specified in your role PM
    
11. No direct quoting of private messages and role PMs, however, paraphrasing is allowed
    
12. No publicly announcing replace-outs, please PM me should you need to
    
13. Players may ask me questions in thread, in private topics, or through PMs
    
14. Moderators reserve the right to make final judgement calls, and amendments to the rules.

Voting

1. Majority voting is in effect during the day
   
2. If players fail to get a majority vote before the deadline, plurality vote will be applied
   
3. In plurality voting, the player with the most votes is eliminated. In case of ties, the player who reached the most votes first will be eliminated
   
4. Only VOTE: vote tags count

   Code: Select all

   [v]yessiree[/v]

   
   
5. Players may not vote no elimination
   
6. Once an elimination has occurred, votes/unvotes will no longer be counted for the remainder of the day

Activity

1. A Prod is issued after 48 hours of inactivity. Following a prod, players have 24 hours to respond or be replaced
   
2. Players are automatically replaced upon receiving the 3rd prod
   
3. Day phase lasts 10 days for day 1, (# players alive) days for subsequent days
   
4. There is no night

[yessiree]

Setup

This is a variant of the original Lovers and Losers setup by BBmolla
Link

Lovers and Losers

9 Players:

2 Mafia Lovers
1 Mafia Goon

4 Town Lovers (2 pairs)
2 VTs

• Daystart
  
• Nightless
  
• Mafia may communicate privately at any time
  
• Mafia wins when they outnumber, reach parity with town, or when 2 VTs are eliminated.
  
• Town wins when all Mafia members are eliminated.

Sample PMs

Spoiler: VT

Hi, {Player}. You are a Vanilla Townie.

You have no special powers other than your voice and your vote.
You win when all Mafia members are eliminated.

Spoiler: Town Lover

Hi, {Player}. You are a Town Lover with {Another Player}.

If anyone of you die, the other dies as well. The two of you may talk privately prior to day 1 {here}
You win when all Mafia members are eliminated.

Spoiler: Mafia Lover

Hi, {Player}. You are a member of the Mafia, consisting of your Lover {Player 2}, and Mafia Goon {Player 3}.

If anyone of the lovers die, the other dies as well. You may talk privately at any time {here}.
You win when mafia outnumber, reach parity with town, or when 2 VTs are eliminated.

Spoiler: Mafia Goon

Hi, {Player}. You are a mafia goon. Your other team members are a lover pair consisting of {Player 2, 3}.

You may talk privately at any time {here}.
You win when mafia outnumber, reach parity with town, or when 2 VTs are eliminated.

[yessiree]

Role PMs are out. Players have 48 hours to confirm. (expired on 2021-05-11 12:25:00)

Game will begin 24 hours after everyone has confirmed.

[yessiree]

Everyone has confirmed. Game will begin in (expired on 2021-05-11 05:00:00)

[yessiree]

Day 1 begins.

[Vex Vience]

VOTE: bingle - you know the reason why

also,

i am lovers with bambi—she can confirm this. everyone should claim if they are a lover, and if they are, with who, or if they're vt. doing so will make this game much easier for us to solve the rest of it.

this game is nightless so there's no factional kill present.
if two other people claim lovers, we now have four mechanically confirmed ics due to the nature of the setup. if we have four others claim lovers, we now know there's two scum within the six lovers, and one scum within the remaining three vts, and we can solve from there.

i also propose we solve lovers before we solve vts, just so we have more ics to work with, and so we can remove most of the scum from the game.
ok? ok.

[T-Bone]

That's actually not helpful in this setup, but my gut is that you're town for it. Congrats.

[Vex Vience]

yes it is? we know there's two scum within six players if all lover pairs claim, leaving a single goon left over. if the scum lovers decide to claim vts, we know for a fact both lover pairs *have* to be town, which means we don't have to bother solving lovers at all, and we have four effective ics to solve the remaining five

[Vex Vience]

basically, either scum have to dedicate to claiming lovers now, or they claim vts and let us have four unkillable ics

[LlamaFluff]

Claiming VT.

That's actually not helpful in this setup, but my gut is that you're town for it. Congrats.

Its not polygamist where scum might make too many connections, plus it actually can help reads. Like how for me I know one of the others who claims VT is scum, get one good town read in the right spot and scum is just hung out to dry. This one puts all pieces out there. I think VV is just creating a very odd situation that would likely never transpire because he is acting like its polygamist (although from a subverting the setup intent scenario would be). While there arent a ton of things it changes (like chances of changing a vote based on someones role isnt huge D1), it does lead to one half-trap that probably comes to nothing, but with luck can be huge.

There is one other thing that needs to happen right after massclaim, but specifically not until after (or at least until we reach a point where even without claims we know what they would be)

[Vex Vience]

i know it's not poly which is why i want the lover pairs to claim at the start. we know if all three pairs claim, there's two scum within six, and one scum within three, which makes reading and solving the game easier than trying to find three scum in nine.

[Vex Vience]

if it was poly, scum obviously claim vt so we can't just insta-solve from the lovers

[T-Bone]

Okay doubling down is kinda weird.

[Bingle]

i also propose we solve lovers before we solve vts, just so we have more ics to work with, and so we can remove most of the scum from the game.

Lovers and VTs are functionally identical so it doesn't matter which is solved first. As such, we should solve whomsoever is most scummiest.

TBone, can you explain why you think there's a benefit to not claiming? The thought process is weird to me.

[T-Bone]

Oh no, claiming is fine. It's the framing it as this great game-solving move that is super weird.

Double down was the wrong term. Overselling is what I was going for.

[LlamaFluff]

i know it's not poly which is why i want the lover pairs to claim at the start. we know if all three pairs claim, there's two scum within six, and one scum within three, which makes reading and solving the game easier than trying to find three scum in nine.

Poly you dont massclaim out the gate because if scum isnt careful and set up who the "pairs" are they can be caught with too many odd associative tells. This there is only one pair which unless scum lies about their role, wont matter as much.

i also propose we solve lovers before we solve vts, just so we have more ics to work with, and so we can remove most of the scum from the game.

Lovers and VTs are functionally identical so it doesn't matter which is solved first. As such, we should solve whomsoever is most scummiest.

TBone, can you explain why you think there's a benefit to not claiming? The thought process is weird to me.

Its right that it really doesnt matter what pool we target from, even though being right in lovers would be better as there are more confirmed town (even though I think you just boil down all lovers pairs as a "player" and cede most of the power to the clear "players" if we hit scum). So why no claim from you?

[Vex Vience]

@bingle true, but i prefer lovers because it's more people once it's actually solved.
@tbone it's because i'm a very mechanical-based player, and if i get focused on something, (eg massclaim at the start to figure out the game from there), i tend to hyperfixate on it.

[T-Bone]

I feel you. I get it, easy instinct to have.

[RationalMadman]

VOTE: bingle - you know the reason why

also,

i am lovers with bambi—she can confirm this. everyone should claim if they are a lover, and if they are, with who, or if they're vt. doing so will make this game much easier for us to solve the rest of it.

Actually, it si helpful not to oit and to force Townies and Scum alike to out with reads regardless of alignment.

Do you know it's actually pretty dangerous to random vote in this setup? You easily start a bandwagon that if jist one other (assuming you're Town) Townie piles on, then for all you know you vote off either the other pair of lovers or a vanilla Townie.

I will not be outing yet, I want to force others to read me and will out later.

[RationalMadman]

@tbone it's because i'm a very mechanical-based player, and if i get focused on something, (eg massclaim at the start to figure out the game from there), i tend to hyperfixate on it.

This setup is 0% mechanical in how things will play out, why would you even sign up for it? This comes down entirely to reads, not sure I townread your lover pair at all yet.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote RM

Do you think players will read you differently if you claim or not claim?

[Vex Vience]

i have never played this setup, so i'm going with what i'm used to doing. not to mention, i don't really see the problem with a single vote on someone at the very start of d1? it's clearly a rvs vote.

pedit: the reason why i signed up for this setup as well was to help get the open queue moving, so my setup could go into signups faster, plus i know a few people in the playerlist already, and i enjoy playing with them, so i'll happily play a game that i'm weak at. do you have any problem with that?

[RationalMadman]

T-bone is acting strangely 'I dosagree with you but we're cool right?' I don't Townread it. Vex's entry I default to a Town read for sure. Love that he cautioned the massclaim coming too soon but... Why did he then out instantly?

Regardless, Llama and also Bingle default Town for me.

[RationalMadman]

Vote RM

Do you think players will read you differently if you claim or not claim?

Yes, I do and Scum will struggle to know hownhard to hide their lover aprtner vs VT partner, the interactions will leak tells later on.