Mini Normal 2211 || Summer Meet [Endgame]

[geraintm]

so, 4 pages already that i can safely ignore.
this is what, game 2+2+1+1?

it worked so well in my last game i'm going to do the same this one. i am VT.
i should be probably add a sarcasm tag to that

[geraintm]

Why do people try to theorize in normals without knowing how normals work.

VOTE: umlaut

[geraintm]

so, 4 pages already that i can safely ignore.
this is what, game 2+2+1+1?

it worked so well in my last game i'm going to do the same this one. i am VT.
i should be probably add a sarcasm tag to that

tbh you can probably safely ignore the first page and a half but imo there's content after that that's worth looking into
ignoring legit content is anti-town
and you're vt right? wouldn't want to play against our win condition right

im fairly certain i can ignore all of day 1...
yeah, plain old vanilla.

[geraintm]

so, 4 pages already that i can safely ignore.
this is what, game 2+2+1+1?

it worked so well in my last game i'm going to do the same this one. i am VT.
i should be probably add a sarcasm tag to that

tbh you can probably safely ignore the first page and a half but imo there's content after that that's worth looking into
ignoring legit content is anti-town
and you're vt right? wouldn't want to play against our win condition right

im fairly certain i can ignore all of day 1...
yeah, plain old vanilla.

thanks for outing yourself as dead weight d1 I suppose

well, i am trying new things. it worked so well in my last game, thought why not here too.

[geraintm]

@MOD

Is the Highlight just the biggest wagon?

Yep. I'll change color if the wagon's within 2 votes of hammer.

that yellow is impossible to read

[geraintm]

VOTE: choof

[geraintm]

VOTE: humaneating monkey

[geraintm]

so, 4 pages already that i can safely ignore.
this is what, game 2+2+1+1?

it worked so well in my last game i'm going to do the same this one. i am VT.
i should be probably add a sarcasm tag to that

tbh you can probably safely ignore the first page and a half but imo there's content after that that's worth looking into
ignoring legit content is anti-town
and you're vt right? wouldn't want to play against our win condition right

im fairly certain i can ignore all of day 1...
yeah, plain old vanilla.

thanks for outing yourself as dead weight d1 I suppose

well, i am trying new things. it worked so well in my last game, thought why not here too.

Ok, if you actually are VT, that was the dumbest move you could make.. just saying, I wouldn't recommend continuing this strat, I might move you to scum lean for now, but that would be cause you said you did it in a past game and it worked, so you could still be riding that wave and doing it here, since I'm guessing you just got written off as bad town for the claim last time.

oh no it didnt work, not at all! Last game i did it and got lynched 2 days later despite everyone saying day 1 i was the towniest townie person who had ever lived. why i kept wanting to add in the /s tag

i was written off for being bad town for many, many other reasons.

[geraintm]

I don't see a scum gerain just openly saying this.

i'm playing the long con. i'll keep saying it as town until the one time i am scum....

[geraintm]

VOTE: geraintm

Actually, this is better motivation to get you to do something

Nope, that ain't going to work....

Like, I am voting and all...
But there i nothing to go on during day 1 so you'll just have to wait till votes nd flips are for more substantial from me.

[geraintm]

I don't see a scum gerain just openly saying this.

i'm playing the long con. i'll keep saying it as town until the one time i am scum....

You missed my attempt at humour here. In my last game, I made a claim early. I think everyone believed me.
Then people spent the rest of the game going "wouldn't it be annoying if geraint was scum" and then voted me out...

I dont plan on doing it every game....honest

[geraintm]

For now, I want everyone to declare what they're doing and what their motive is. I'll go first.

Nothing and I don't have a motive

I'm leaning town on Ivyeo for the reaction to what geraintm posted (regardless of geraintm alignment)

As for geraintm, it would have been towny if this was the first instance of them doing this, but it's not, so it isn't. They can easily be copying what they did as town, as scum here.

I'm not sure how to reply .
I am not sure how on earth I could not be scummy in your eyes.
I am behaving like I have done previously as town, therefore I am scum faking jt.
If I wasn't behaving like I have done previously as town, would I get called out then too?

[geraintm]

Quick post on a Sunday night, but I can't see a reason to move my vote to anywhere else at the moment

[geraintm]

For now, I want everyone to declare what they're doing and what their motive is. I'll go first.

Nothing and I don't have a motive

I'm leaning town on Ivyeo for the reaction to what geraintm posted (regardless of geraintm alignment)

As for geraintm, it would have been towny if this was the first instance of them doing this, but it's not, so it isn't. They can easily be copying what they did as town, as scum here.

I'm not sure how to reply .
I am not sure how on earth I could not be scummy in your eyes.
I am behaving like I have done previously as town, therefore I am scum faking jt.
If I wasn't behaving like I have done previously as town, would I get called out then too?

so you're concerned about not looking scummy? strange way to phrase that

why is ti strange to not want to appear scummy? i don't want to get voted off, so i want to look townie/not look scummy

[geraintm]

on the other hand, geraintm looks scummy as hell. nothing about this dude makes me think "he's playing to win as town", and everything about this dude makes me think "he's playing to win as scum."

it is amazing to me how i play gets so many people so worked up.
right now, i have nothing to offer the game except my claim. i find it incredibly hard/impossible to find scum day 1. i do try and get better as the game goes on though...

[geraintm]

alright so what's your case on gerain

all i can think is "town would never claim VT in their first post, only scum would do that"

is that basically it?

[geraintm]

the dude's not in the business of finding out who scum is, and all about trying to not look like scum. also, I don't think he's ever done something about his vote on me? has he verbalized his reason on voting for me? nah dude, this guy's parking.

i will repeat, day 1 i am very, very bad at finding scum.
last time i looked though, there were 4 votes on you, so why aren't the 3 other people voting for you getting asmuch heat as i am?

[geraintm]

T3 has been open with his reads and asking other people for clarification. Gerain hasn't done both of these things.

oh, day 1 i won't ask for clarification. i think anyone who claims a read strength greater than say.....33% is suffering delusions of overconfidence. why get people into trouble and ask them to clarify trying to catch mist on day 1?

[geraintm]

im now thinking you're town, gerain

seriously? i've convinced you this morning i am town?

[geraintm]

@ lemons - i have...10 nulls and 2 i don't knows? maybe human eating monkey for his fast about face on me for no good reasons is suspicious - because i didn't do anything to change their mind really.

[geraintm]

gerain's 530 swayed me very slightly, but upon further reflection i really don't think it's any more likely that it's genuine than that it's just a ploy for towncred.

i find it weird that me going to someone "huh- i find your backtracking off of me suspicious" isn't genuine and is voteworthy, but when i actually claim i am town that means nothing

[geraintm]

maybe human eating monkey for his fast about face on me for no good reasons is suspicious - because i didn't do anything to change their mind really.

i don't know what you're saying because even this post is pretty town

the timeline was i believe

you think i'm scum
i go "you can think of me as bad town but i am town"
you go "oh yeah, you are right, you are town!"
i go "that's weird you backed off me so easily"
you go "you are spewing town vibes"
i go "i really am not, you are being weird"
you go "see, you did it again!"

i find your interaction with me odd

[geraintm]

Eww.

Is this a policy lynch? Or you think this was a scummy reaction?

I missed this question. Yes, I think it's a scummy reaction to respond to suspicion of oneself with "but why aren't you suspicious of these other people who did something similar?" It reads like scum indignant about being accused based on what they consider insufficient evidence.

Honestly I agree with this. I haven't really liked much from them this whole game.
VOTE: Gera

to be honest, not sure what you should like.
i claim straight up
i say i hate day 1s
i just want to move to day 2

[geraintm]

heres a scalding hot take

gerain is actually probably going to flip town pr

You may think that, but I couldn't possibly comment....

Wait, I did! I have no role beyond vanilla townie!

[geraintm]

Sorry for notmposting much today, went out and actuallyet people for a few hours and I am exhausted

[geraintm]

@VFP can i ask what about gerain's 629 suggests a town mindset to you? do you think scum isn't this vocal about wanting to progress to the next day?

It's a mix of not caring while being voted.
Saying you want day 2 by itself is NAI. Saying it in response to a vote on you is just asking for attention.
I'll have to re read and confirm but I feel like Gera was very different to when I last played with him as scum when being voted. (however it wasn't day 1).
If I remember correctly he dodged conflict when being voted but again, I'll check this tonight to see if I'm right.

I am actively trying to be different, you can see it in my last game too.

[geraintm]

I am actively trying to be different, you can see it in my last game too.

So I should consider you as scum then?

consider me sure, why not.

you'll be wrong but there is no reason you shouldnt consider the possibility i am scum

gerain's return does not do much to convince me here. VFP, do you have past experience to suggest that gerain wouldn't claim VT unnecessarily? he even said he's deliberately attempting to vary his playstyle game to game, which is usually not a town play. though i do concede there's a certain boldness in admitting it outright

no, not game to game. think of it more as a break

gerain

still looks like scum to me. i think giving him a pass for being self aware/claiming VT(?) is a bit of a cop out. i didn't notice it at first but 606 contains a dismissive "10 nulls and 2 i don't knows" which equals 12 players, meaning gerain probably isn't actually bothering to even

try

and read people or engage with the game. if he were being serious about this, odds are he would at least have bothered to subtract a null read to account for himself as a player whose alignment he knows. i don't like this slot.

i really need to be more obvious with what i am saying if they went whoosh over your head...

i have repeatedly said i don't like day 1s, i think people making great claims about their reads is full of fluff, and my normal method of progressing my reads depends upn known votes, the outcomes of votes, following known townies.
why would i fake reads on people today - that is just not me...

heres a scalding hot take

gerain is actually probably going to flip town pr

You may think that, but I couldn't possibly comment....

Wait, I did! I have no role beyond vanilla townie!

okay this is extremely strange. as either alignment, don't you want to stick with that? even if you're vt? if you're scum, that's good for you because as soon as a tpr claim goes out d1 you're out of everyone's lynch pool. if you're town, that's good for you because you're more likely to draw a nk, which is a good thing if you're a vt

the point of this post completely eludes me. i think i'll have to come back to this in a bit

sorry, im really confused by your understanding of my post.
i basically aid in the first part that i didn't want to either confirm or deny the theory that i might be a power role.

and then in the second part i reverd that and confirmed my previous claim that i am a vanilla townie.

[geraintm]

Votecount #6, Day One

Osuka (1): bugspray
humaneatingmonkey (2): geraintm, Anya

geraintm (3): Umlaut, InsidiousLemons, Ivyeo

VFP (1): osuka
InsidiousLemons (1): Egix96
T3 (1): VFP

With 12 alive it takes 7 to flip.
(expired on 2021-05-23 09:33:00) until deadline.

Umlaut V/LA until Saturday

my god, today is going to end in a terrible eviction.

[geraintm]

@insidious lemons.

I do normally call out stuff day 1 when I see people joining wagons for what I think are bad reasons....but this game just hasn't had many. I cant get worked up to even work out the wagons, few vote counts

[geraintm]

Unofficial vote count

Bugspray votes osuka
VFP votes osuka
Osuka votes Humaneatingmonkey
Humaneatingmonkey votes osuka
Geraintm votes humaneatingmonkey
Ivyeo votes osuka
T3 votes bugspray
Anya vote bugspray
InsidiousLemons votes osuka
EGic96 vote Insidious lemons
Dunnstral – no vote
Umlaut votes GEraintm

Total

Osuka 5: Bugspray, VFP, Humaneatingmonkey, Ivyeo, Insidiouslemons
Humaneatingmonkey 2: Osuka, Geraintm
Bugspray 2: T3, Anya
Insidiouslemons 1: Egix96
Geraintm 1: Umlaut

Not Voting 1: Dunstral

[geraintm]

VOTE: osuka

[geraintm]

i think that is 6 votes and one off elimintation

[geraintm]

back down to 5

[geraintm]

back to 6

[geraintm]

Unofficial

Bugspray votes osuka
VFP votes osuka
Osuka votes Humaneatingmonkey
Humaneatingmonkey votes osuka
Geraintm votes osuka
Ivyeo votes osuka
T3 votes bugspray
Anya vote bugspray
InsidiousLemons votes osuka
EGic96 vote Insidious lemons
Dunnstral votes bugspray
Umlaut votes GEraintm

Total

Osuka 6: Bugspray, VFP, Humaneatingmonkey, Ivyeo, Insidiouslemons, geraintm
Humaneatingmonkey 1: Osuka
Bugspray 3: T3, Anya, dunnstral
Insidiouslemons 1: Egix96
Geraintm 1: Umlaut

[geraintm]

i've got a long car jounrey tonight and unlikely to be on much tomorrow at all to warn people

[geraintm]

i've got a long car jounrey tonight and unlikely to be on much tomorrow at all to warn people

what are you warning us from

it was fairly close to deadline, and if anyone was expecting me to carry on doing vote counts, then i would be posting not a lot...

[geraintm]

I thibk my vote is missing too

[geraintm]

VOTE: dunnstral

[geraintm]

re: 968 i'm kind of wary of how fine everyone is with a dunn lim. unanimity suggests that scum are okay with it too, and his flip gives us almost no information. with 16 hours to go, i will be waking up tomorrow right around the time of the deadline, and i suspect this is the case for many of us. we probably need to decide on a lim tonight, despite the monkey's resistance.

it's worth noting that in the convo quoted in 728, egix is unable to qualify the difference in "attitude" that he feels in ivy's play between one of her scum games and this one, for which he's "thinking she's maybe town here". he's quite eager to move away from the subject in that post, even attacking me to do so. the only reasons he cites for a townread apart from this are 311 and 420 which, while town-looking posts, don't really do it for me anymore given what we've seen since. this could suggest partner equity if one of them flips scum. i recognize that i'm getting a bit all over the place, but i'm feeling the deadline panic a bit and i want to consider every possible option before we make a decision.

VOTE: ivyeo

p-edit: i never criticized her for saying she'd go for dunn so it's interesting that you focus on that. my argument against her is mostly that the progression of her read on osuka feels unnatural. this is being super, super nitpicky, but it also stands out to me slightly that she seems to classify "town" as a group of which she is not a part in 970. i don't really want to read too much into word choice like this, but it caught my eye, so i might as well mention it.

bug am i right in thinking that your top 2 for today are humaneatingmonkey and dunnstral? i want to see how ivy responds to my post but i'm actually leaning in her direction for a lim atp

This is one of the few votes today I have sat up and went huh.

For someone so keen to get a good elimination today, trying to start one now on Ivy is just odd. It isn't going to happen, and looks to me like an attempt at distraction. Certainly in my interesting pile....

[geraintm]

VOTE: bugspray
I'm awake

[geraintm]

just popping in to say hello and ive obviously got nothing to add from last night

[geraintm]

just popping in to say hello and ive obviously got nothing to add from last night

Maybe now it's day 2, we can see a different you.

i'll be doing more, but i just wanted to very quickly say that i would not be adding anything from what Mod has posted

[geraintm]

If osuka doesn't claim responsibility for tonight's kill save and if osuka doesn't declare who he targeted and why, he's scum.

i'll declare who i targeted in a second here. i want to see everyone's reactions to no kill first

I've already reacted. I said I have nothing to add to what mod posted

[geraintm]

So, to make sure i know what has been claimed overnight,
the only one i know of is Osuka has claimed Rolestropper and targetted lemons. is that right?

Post 1123 hammered bugspray. As such, no further votes were counted.

final VC, Day One

Bugspray (7) [HAMMER]: Dunnstral, T3, Umlaut, Anya, humaneatingmonkey, Ivyeo, Geraintm

Dunnstral (3): VFP, Egix96, bugspray
humaneatingmonkey (2): InsidiousLemons, osuka

With 12 alive it takes 7 to eliminate or 6 to no-eliminate.

Ok so this was the vote count on the flip

GOing to go and look at the votes and see what i think of them.

VOTE: bugspray

less spraying and more voting this canister doesn't feel organic to me

VOTE: bugspray
felt like a feeling vote

VOTE: bugspray

actually on and off a bunch of times.

I don't scumread bugspray but I also didn't like Anya's vote. I think a town/scumflip would give us more info. VOTE: bug

This vote stinks. their jump to Bugspray makes literally no sense at all.
fiiine reading over the cannister they're 10% hit and 90% miss

VOTE: bugspray

that's a litte random.

I really can't imagine a setup where scum is informed that every single PR has a private topic. Well, I can imagine it but it would be such a terrible setup that I'm rejecting it out of hand. So HEM can't possibly be "slipping" something if it isn't actually true. I don't think we can read into that one way or the other.

VOTE: bugspray for the sake of being contrarian, on balance I have a gut feeling Dunn flips green in which case we learn pretty much nothing from his death whereas (1) I don't have a similar feeling with bugspray and (2) even if town at least they've generated enough associatives that we get usable information from the flip. I considered going back to HEM but he's towned up quite a bit IMO

again, this feels an odd vote. little force behind it, just again more of a feeling vote and wanting to not be elsewhere with their vote.

Okay let's go. It's less than 3 days before deadline and we haven't really locked into 2 wagons yet. Let's put this game into gear 2. VOTE: bugspray

This doesn't mean I'm done tonight. I'm still trying to put together some thoughts.

this was human eating monkeys first vote. it again feels like a vote without much behind it, it is just to get the boat moving.
there was a lot of voting elsehwere after this, on osuka and dunnstral

i can vote bugs here, Umlaut. But we need 3 more.

later had this post

Anya, Ivyeo, VFP, Egix96, who wants to bumrush bugspray?

and this
then got into a weird argument with people

Bugspray (3): Dunnstral, T3, Umlaut, (humaneatingmonkey), (Ivyeo), (Anya),
ONE MORE for the bumrush.

Let's switch wagons now.
VOTE: bugspray

and that was the vote.
i dunno, felt like they were mid wagon votes and trying to get more people onto the Bugspray wagon. either they are one of the towniest people in the game, or one of the daftest scum because i don't think - as scum - they needed to pushtheir partner so much.

VOTE: Bugspray

Ivy's vote, late on when it was clear momentum for Bug was there.

My vote was last.

THoughts:

This felt like a fluke. Bugspray shouldn't have got themselves eliminated, i dont think they ever did anything especially obvious. but once the wagon got rolling it seemed unstoppable.
People on the wagon whose votes i am not a fan of

Ivy's - their post 1028 is calling for an elimiantion between Dunn, Lemons and Me
759 was a defence of Bugspray
227 had bugspray as locktown

just makes me antsy

that's about it really. the rest are all wishy enough that i can't say any look bad, and i'll give the edge to Anya and Humaneatingmonkey as the towniest people

[geraintm]

Quickly popping in before bed.
Osaku, you make it really easy for people to vote for you. I'm not sure how aware you come off, but you don't let people want to ever give you the benefit of the doubt (at least in this game).

This isn't me defending or attacking your slot, and I don't think I've played with you before, just an observation

[geraintm]

@ insidious lemons

Don't have time to go into my post properly, but I don't think I actually attacked too many peoples votes, certainly not in the way I normally do.
As I said, I didn't find bugspray obviously scummy yesterday, but their wagon got going pretty unchallenged. I looked at the posts of people who voted for them, and they were mostly of the type "not much else is going on...gonna vote here".
If the wagon had flipped green, they would have stunk. But it flipped red.

You are right about the weirdness of my looking like I was going to say more than one person was suspicious. As I went to write that section I thought my summary had highlighted two people, but I wrote it realised it was only kne but never went back and changed the intro to the section

[geraintm]

Ivy's vote, late on when it was clear momentum for Bug was there.
(snip)
Ivy's - their post 1028 is calling for an elimiantion between Dunn, Lemons and Me
759 was a defence of Bugspray
227 had bugspray as locktown

This ignores the fact that when it was brought up, I said that I would be in favor of a Bugs elim, but was keeping my vote because it was near deadline. Of course I'm going to wait until it's clear my vote isn't splitting town before moving it.
(Bugs was also on the scum side of my readslist fwiw)

I'd be willing to vote Bug aswell

This is the post you are referring to when you said you would be in favour of voting Bugspray. there is no reason for it.
you did in post 1040 ask Bugspray who'd they would want to eliminaite, that doesn't feel like someone you yourself want o go after

and yes, Bugspray was on your scum list in post 752...along with half the town. that doesn't (to me) buy you any credit. you had me 2nd and never everwent after me. it just felt like a list for the sake of a list.

[geraintm]

I don't think we were going to be able to change course really if they were town, and if they're scum then we shouldn't dwell on it ethier.

Yeah but I'm just worried this might be one of those games where you yeet scum D1 but still lose due to a cavalcade of misyeets.

just had one of those and it was 2 scum eliminations to start the game

[geraintm]

Okay thank you Dunn VOTE: osuka

is this really the end of the day? i have literally no clue if it is a genuine hammer or not

[geraintm]

My suggestion is to vote out VFP; they started out voting t3 by themself, then moved onto the osuka wagon which went to e-1, then moved to my wagon which went to e-1, but never joined the bugspray wagon.

Today, they don't have that much to say around the osuka wagon other than they think it could be town, or much to say at all while it's looking like osuka will be hammered without their input

VOTE: VFP

i never looked at them as they were off wagon, but this seems a good place to start.
if osaku flips green seems a good place to begin tomorrow

[geraintm]

I wasn't expecting any movement in this game until after thr weekend after Mod said they were existing things back.

I claimed days ago, am vanilla town.

[geraintm]

VOTE: geraintm

cook can you fill in the votecounts please

So you think that as scum i would in my first pust claim vanilla town?

[geraintm]

right now, i have nothing to offer the game except my claim. i find it incredibly hard/impossible to find scum day 1. i do try and get better as the game goes on though...

for someone who fell back on this defense repeatedly, does it strike anyone else as strange that the overwhelming majority of gerain's posts are from... D1? look at his ISO. he's literally posted 11 times since EoD1 and we're on D3 now. does that seem like someone "trying to get better as the game goes on"?

gerain, you've managed pretty consistently to fly under the radar so far, so i think it's past due that you get your fair share of scrutiny and pressure. the only real thing going for you seems to be that you hammered bugspray, which happened after it was very clear egix was going to do it anyway. got other reasons i should believe you're town?

Day 2 I checked in, then due to timings the game moved on very quickly.
I did my read of the day 1 wagon, pretty much no one responded to it because everyone was fixated on the elimination that happened.
That os why day 2 had so few posts.

Day 3...it is a Bank Holiday weekend here and I don't have as much time to get onto a computer.
I'm back at work tomorrow.

[geraintm]

im assuming game is over.
i can take zero credit for the result. so i'll take 10%

[geraintm]

This was the first time I've ever played in a game with a traitor.
It made zero difference to me.

I assumed back up mods were a given?