Mini Normal 2211 || Summer Meet [Endgame]

[Dunnstral]

I have not played here in years, but have been playing recently on my home forum
also used to 48-72hr days, 24hr nights so 10 days wew lass

Usually the days do end up being fairly long

[Dunnstral]

i have a feeling "custom-order" means something maybe the roles in this game will be different or unusual

No, because:

Flavor has no effect on the game.

[Dunnstral]

...Kind of feels like you just pulled out random roles to call creative

[Dunnstral]

i have a feeling "custom-order" means something maybe the roles in this game will be different or unusual

No, because:

Flavor has no effect on the game.

i mean cook has been hyping up how hes gonna mod a game since he joined so i bet it's going to be a creative setup which generally means there's either hoods, a rolecop, or a tracker because those are some of the more interesting setup creation toys

...Kind of feels like you just pulled out random roles to call creative

is this one wolf communicating their roles to another wolf

maybe they can't talk and have to use the vulnerability of public communication

Maybe you should read the setup, because scum can indeed talk to each other right now

[Dunnstral]

Also, that theory seems dumb anyway. Why do mafia need to communicate that they're rolecop/tracker/neighbors during the day, instead of night 1?

[Dunnstral]

day roles but no day talk?

[Dunnstral]

day roles but no day talk?

how do you know?

I mean, that's what you're saying you thought was a possibility.

I don't think the thinking makes sense for a first assumption

[Dunnstral]

No, that's just a general way of covering roles like neighbor and mason

[Dunnstral]

so, 4 pages already that i can safely ignore.
this is what, game 2+2+1+1?

it worked so well in my last game i'm going to do the same this one. i am VT.
i should be probably add a sarcasm tag to that

what

[Dunnstral]

For now, I want everyone to declare what they're doing and what their motive is. I'll go first.

Nothing and I don't have a motive

I'm leaning town on Ivyeo for the reaction to what geraintm posted (regardless of geraintm alignment)

As for geraintm, it would have been towny if this was the first instance of them doing this, but it's not, so it isn't. They can easily be copying what they did as town, as scum here.

[Dunnstral]

Can someone tell me if it's typical for Andante to have nearly twice as many posts as anyone else in the game? In my experience that can be a stronger towntell then most people give it credit for but it depends on the player.

I think this is a good point

[Dunnstral]

Why is the above directed at T3 and not me?

[Dunnstral]

Andante town for effort?

[Dunnstral]

I'm not seeing a reason for your vote in the first place

[Dunnstral]

Yeah, I'm too far back to understand what is going on right now

Gera is kind of weird when they're town too so I don't know

[Dunnstral]

That's not very nice

[Dunnstral]

hi andante hi anya hi t3

hi insidiouslemons

i'm glad i don't have to pretend to call you a wolf

when you're writing down towny essays

unless YOU'RE the wolf this time

@ osuka
The phrasing of this part feels awkward/scumslip-ish

I disagree, it seems clear to me that Anya is implying that if they were a wolf, they'd be saying that

That doesn't really explain why she'd be calling InsidiousLemons a wolf if she were a wolf herself, or what the towny essays are on page 3, I assume it's talking about another game

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Osuka
PL at the very least.

T3 I don't have a town read on yet. If I don't have one by the time I'm caught up I'll probably be satisfied here.
Anya looks town. Scum Anya just looks more cautious.
Dunn I'm thinking townlean.

@T3

why is Osuka scum here? Or why more scum than Ivyeo or Anya?

I haven't read much of what Osuka has been saying but 646 strikes me more likely to come from town

I'm not personally a fan of policy elims, but unless there's something more compelling than my above reason to townread I will probably just watch this one

[Dunnstral]

Actually, you don't need to do that...

[Dunnstral]

@Dunnstral, you say in 657 that gerain is "kind of weird" as town. can you elaborate on your experience(s) with him?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83597

This game, I just remember them feeling off

[Dunnstral]

For now, I want everyone to declare what they're doing and what their motive is. I'll go first.

Nothing and I don't have a motive

I'm leaning town on Ivyeo for the reaction to what geraintm posted (regardless of geraintm alignment)

As for geraintm, it would have been towny if this was the first instance of them doing this, but it's not, so it isn't. They can easily be copying what they did as town, as scum here.

So when can I expect you to start doing... you know, something?

VOTE: Dunnstral

cheap vote the sort i'd find in a discount store having a summer sale

VOTE: Egix

I would appreciate more from you, Dunn. I have no idea where you are on each players and the events that came about. Please man. I need to sort you.

VOTE: monkeyhuman

this banana's desperation to read Dunnstral is more motivation than most people have towards life goals i don't believe it

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: bugspray

[Dunnstral]

doctors hate him

[Dunnstral]

I believe that claim warrants unvotes for today at least, and then re-visit when there are more claims

[Dunnstral]

I'd say it's stronger than a doctor in that it can stop roleblocks too

Of course, with the rolestopper revealed, they can be roleblocked themself

[Dunnstral]

vt

[Dunnstral]

And I thought Dunn was hunting for PRs? Yes.

Then why didn't you push that when it happened?

[Dunnstral]

Then why didn't you push that when it happened?

I wasn't paying attention

At wgat point in time did you think I was hunting for prs then?

[Dunnstral]

If nobody else claims something that can stop a kill, then osuka is not a good vote.

Also bugspray was on osuka's e-1 wagon

[Dunnstral]

i have to say, i find dunnstral popping in here

just

to defend osuka, and not to comment on the flip, lack of night kill, hem, vfp, me, or

voice any other thoughts at all

, a little suspect.

Seemed to work fine on day 1

[Dunnstral]

i do get it, or at least i get what you're going for. i believe that you didn't mix up rolestopper and roleblocker at the time of your claim, sure. what i'm saying is that i think you forgot the specific function of your night action

at the time that you outed your target

, because you had a narrative in mind that you wanted to construct -- one which incriminates hem, and which implicates me when you flip scum. convenient.

when you send in your night action, you specifically target

one person

, and yes i do find it kind of hard to believe that you would forget who that one specific person was. i think hem was what slipped out because he was on your mind, because even though he wasn't your "target",

your action was more about harming hem than protecting me.

i think town!osuka would have been markedly less likely to make this mistake.

there is never going to be a way to prove conclusively whether you would or would not have made this mistake as town. but as i've said, flipping your slot is going to give us a lot of information either way. if you flip red, great. and even if you flip green, that

still

gives us a solid lead on hem and provides us with a frame of reference for what other PRs are more or less likely to coexist in the same game.

and lastly, why does it even have to be hem who shot at me? if the aim is simply to incriminate you and kill two birds with one stone, wouldn't

any

scum seize the same opportunity?

I actually think Lemons is on to something. It seems like Osuka is caught in a contradiction here.

• He first says he "rolestopped HEM" but let's assume he really did mean to say he rolestopped Lemons.
  
• Then he says the fact that there was no kill incriminates HEM, to the point where he
  instantly
  regarded HEM as caught scum this morning and cited his action as the reason, as if it were so conclusive that no more explanation need be given
  
• And says "I rolestopped [Lemons] so that HEM couldn't kill [them]"
  
• But then he says "i didnt do it to incriminate hem. the fact that there was _no_ kill at all is what incriminates him, and that's just a consequence of me having protected [Lemons] because i thought [they] could be a target."

I can't formulate a coherent state of mind for a town!Osuka to have had last night going into the start of this day, where all of these statements can be genuine. If Osuka rolestopped Lemons out of a belief they were the likely kill choice for

any

scumteam, then he should have expected to stop a kill and should not think it implicates HEM specifically. He absolutely should not think that "at first" as he says in 1350 that he did. Conversely, if Osuka rolestopped Lemons specifically because he thought

HEM

would target them, and also thought HEM was scum, he should know that's what he did and shouldn't be making a post like 1350 in the first place, where he tries to argue Lemons was a justified rolestop regardless of the team.

I think the error of saying "I rolestopped HEM" reveals that Osuka's mind was more on HEM than it is on Lemons, and so the explanation that he did not initially set out to implicate HEM is phony.

Here is my understanding of it:

Osuka thinks that HEM is going to night kill Lemons

Osuka rolestops Lemons

He thinks the no kill implicates HEM, and he slips up what he is trying to say

Voting Osuka would be a mistake here: The wagon state from yesterday and their currently uncc'd claim and nightkill prevention are all reasons not to vote for them. Voting lemons would be a mistake for similar reasons.

[Dunnstral]

My suggestion is to vote out VFP; they started out voting t3 by themself, then moved onto the osuka wagon which went to e-1, then moved to my wagon which went to e-1, but never joined the bugspray wagon.

Today, they don't have that much to say around the osuka wagon other than they think it could be town, or much to say at all while it's looking like osuka will be hammered without their input

VOTE: VFP

[Dunnstral]

4 scum in a 12 player game..?

[Dunnstral]

Both mafia were informed

[Dunnstral]

He had to keep up his claim which pushing lemons would not do

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Dunnstral Tell us your thoughts, man. You had interesting ideas yesterday.

It's not Egix

[Dunnstral]

So I'm a PT cop.

Human is scum VOTE: Humaneatingmonkey

N1 I checked Anya who doesn't have a PT.

Hardclaim mason
Don't say you didn't see this coming

Yes I believe we massclaim

I have information that makes me doubt both of the above is town

Going to need hem's partner to claim today

[Dunnstral]

Basically, would 2 traitors know of each others names?

Also: no

[Dunnstral]

Basically, would 2 traitors know of each others names?

Also: no

Source

[Dunnstral]

I believe there is only 1 scum left

[Dunnstral]

Basically, would 2 traitors know of each others names?

Also: no

Source

In fairness this could be taken as non-normal and done differently here

[Dunnstral]

Sure, thanks.
I'm vt.
Egix might be last scum. Ivy being mason cuts down my poe to just Egix.

Can you explain your poe?

[Dunnstral]

I have information that makes me doubt both of the above is town

you claimed VT at E-1. Were you lying?

No

[Dunnstral]

Egix is a friendly neighbor, they targeted me last night

I don't really buy that this setup has 2 masons + friendly neighbor + pt cop for power, plus whatever town role stopped the night kill (I don't think it's a gambit because osuka was a traitor)

I think the interaction between rolestopper and pt cop is interesting because as a traitor osuka would not show up as guilty, and he can also protect one of his teammates from being investigated (And he was informed, so if pt cop is town he could have been informed of that role existing)

So with that angle... pt cop starts looking plausible, actually. I still suspect it and think we should eliminate it eventually, and on play I suspect vfp a bit, but I don't think it's mechanically the right play to eliminate him today

[Dunnstral]

i dont think lynching vfp today is the mechanically right way to play the game

It isn't

[Dunnstral]

I only vote mafia