Mini Normal 2213 - Village (End Game)

[MaxTheFox]

Alrighty, this is the first game I didn't get replaced out of. I did read a lot of games before. Ahem.

VOTE: JohnyFarrar for wagoning NFP early.

[MaxTheFox]

I'm fairly sure Nora is town, I don't think scum would be so active.

[MaxTheFox]

Yes, I too base reads on the quantaty of posts.

Nora's posts have substance too. If she was spamming things like "POTATO!" "MELON!" "2332!" then in fact I'd SR her for spamming the thread.

[MaxTheFox]

Gamma Emerald
Noraa
VFP

UC Voyager
Save The Dragons
JohnnyFarrar
Dunnstral
Andresvmb
ItalianoVD

MaxTheFox
ssbm_Kyouko
RLotus

These are not ordered inside the tiers, but my current thoughts on the player list

Any reasons?

[MaxTheFox]

UNVOTE:

RVS seems to be over.

[MaxTheFox]

Gamma Emerald
Noraa
VFP

UC Voyager
Save The Dragons
JohnnyFarrar
Dunnstral
Andresvmb
ItalianoVD

MaxTheFox
ssbm_Kyouko
RLotus

These are not ordered inside the tiers, but my current thoughts on the player list

Any reasons?

You have not posted anything that makes me feel like you are solving. Only posted content was to TR the most widely TRed player.

Made multiple posts about Kyouko.

RLotus's post 179 caused a gut reaction scum read, and that is all he has posted so far, so there he is

Not much to solve yet IMO. I'll make a reads list tomorrow (it's late where I live) but I'll say one thing: that post smells town to me.

I think we should vote anyone who lurks after a few more pages so more posts come in.

[MaxTheFox]

And lurks here meaning: low-content. Not necessarily low-amount.

[MaxTheFox]

Yes, I too base reads on the quantaty of posts.

Nora's posts have substance too. If she was spamming things like "POTATO!" "MELON!" "2332!" then in fact I'd SR her for spamming the thread.

But what of the content seems town? You can spew content all day and it all be scummy. I originally town read Nor for that but now reading her ISO am less sure. Definitely not sure enough to say I still townread/lean her. Still think she can be town, but judging off activity is sort of just weak.

Noraa seems to be providing decent reads. Plus the response to this post that I quoted reads more like a flustered townie than flustered mafioso.

[MaxTheFox]

I don't think it makes sense to complain about lack of coherent SRs so early. Page 30 and onward, maybe.

[MaxTheFox]

Reads (anyone not mentioned is null, reads are mostly tonal if no reason if given):

Town bin

MaxTheFox - duh
Noraa - practically the town leader
Save The Dragons
Gamma Emerald

Town lean

Lukewarm - I like their reads
Gamma Emerald
RLotus

Scum lean

VFP - they seem to keep out of the limelight and their posts just smell weird to me
Kyouko

Scum bin

Nobody yet.

[MaxTheFox]

My thoughts:

I looked over gamma and other than his push on me which I did not like, the rest of their posting seems fine
Andres feels fine on tone but too early to get a good grasp
Max... feels scummy to me, always has
Savethedragons is "ok", not where I want my vote today
I read through VFP iso and I don't know, they made a good point that they haven't done anything and the townreads on them are weird, kind of feel they're being hypocritical by also calling me town, and I don't know about 370

I didn’t like how Gamma was trying to paint your lurking as scum and kinda disregarded a space for town you.
So you’ve played with Max before? Or are you just talking about this game?
And no read on me?

They couldn't have played with me before. Doubt we met before offsite either.

[MaxTheFox]

Any responses to my reads?

[MaxTheFox]

Any responses to my reads?

Can you elaborate on VFP? Most of the rest of your reads look kind of generic/popular. Since RLotus is L-1 and you TR him, can you give any reasons you TR him?

Something about this post in particular just feels... off. I can't put my finger on it.

Because I saw that they called me town.
And I didn't like it.

RLotus seems more like a confused town than a scum. There's the extremely weird push on him for reading active people as town which is ??????????
What if none of them seem scummy to him? What's he supposed to say then, lie about a scumread?

[MaxTheFox]

Any responses to my reads?

Can you elaborate on VFP? Most of the rest of your reads look kind of generic/popular. Since RLotus is L-1 and you TR him, can you give any reasons you TR him?

Something about this post in particular just feels... off. I can't put my finger on it.

Because I saw that they called me town.
And I didn't like it.

RLotus seems more like a confused town than a scum. There's the extremely weird push on him for reading active people as town which is ??????????
What if none of them seem scummy to him? What's he supposed to say then, lie about a scumread?

372 was not referring to RLotus at all you know... What makes you think he is confused? I don't get that from his posts at all.

I know and I still hate that post. The more I read it the more it sucks. And I do get that feeling from his posts. A bit flustered might be a better word. Who wouldn't be when getting pushed to E-1?

[MaxTheFox]

Though my TR on Lotus evaporated now. He should claim.

[MaxTheFox]

Someone's at e1, eh?
VOTE: rlotus
Italiano is obvious scum by the way.

That's... bruh. I don't think scum would be so audacious so this is NAI but bruh.

[MaxTheFox]

Well shit. He would have been better off claiming, yes he would have probably died that night but town night actions would be more informed.

VOTE: Free Money Free Tea

You didn't even listen to the guy wanting to catch up.

[MaxTheFox]

Now honestly. I'm kinda nervous. We lost what appears to be our strongest townie day 1. A combined cop/JK seems extremely strong and I don't think there are many other town PRs.

[MaxTheFox]

In what way is what I said scummy?

[MaxTheFox]

Not my intention.

[MaxTheFox]

Just because I am criticizing him for making a brash decision and hammering someone without letting the player who wanted to read the thread and respond first doesn't mean I am dismissing his result.

[MaxTheFox]

Cop enabler seems like a good role to put on a mafioso to reduce swing. But that's not hard evidence for Gamma being scum because that might be what the mod wants us to think.

I'd like people who SR me to explain why if it's not a gut read.

[MaxTheFox]

Well I am trying to provide content. It's hard to use the knowledge I have from reading games. It's like that meme with the two books.

Lukewarm was pretty quiet IIRC, maybe the mafia was hunting power roles?

VFP is my current SR. He is very jumpy and his posts just seem gross to me. VOTE: VFP

[MaxTheFox]

@Max how new are you to the game?

I played mafia elsewhere (mostly chat) but this is my first game on Mafiacum.

[MaxTheFox]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NOT THAT TYPO

[MaxTheFox]

Cop enabler seems like a good role to put on a mafioso to reduce swing. But that's not hard evidence for Gamma being scum because that might be what the mod wants us to think.

I'd like people who SR me to explain why if it's not a gut read.

Who SRs you?

@Max please address this while you're online

This, mostly:

MaxtheFox is my main suspect but him being scum might be a little too convenient tbh so he might be town.

[MaxTheFox]

I just look at every MaxtheFox post and wonder, how is this town?

Ok mafioso

Soon I will publish updated reads.

[MaxTheFox]

Reads (anyone not mentioned is null, reads are mostly tonal if no reason if given):

Town bin

MaxTheFox - duh
Noraa - practically the town leader
Save The Dragons
Gamma Emerald

Town lean

Lukewarm - I like their reads
Gamma Emerald
RLotus

Scum lean

VFP - they seem to keep out of the limelight and their posts just smell weird to me
Kyouko

Scum bin

Nobody yet.

Reads (anyone not mentioned is null, reads are mostly tonal if no reason if given):

Town bin

MaxTheFox - duh
Noraa - practically the town leader
Save The Dragons

Town lean

Kyouko - redeemed themself in my eyes
JohnyFarrar - I like their tone
ItalianoVD - ditto

Scum lean

FMFT - his hammer is weird and his actions are needlessly brash. Could just be a townie with a weird playstyle.

Scum bin

VFP - I am down to hang this.

[MaxTheFox]

For the first, that was a copypaste error I think. For the second I am doubting you due to FMFT's result that says you are a cop enabler which would make more sense as a mafia role. Not enough to push into scum lean though.

[MaxTheFox]

VFP is my current SR. He is very jumpy and his posts just seem gross to me.

How is this a better vote than FTSP who has spewed a bunch of nonsense about other roles that no town role would know?

Why would there be a town informed who knows that gamma is a cop enabler, and that there's a follower in the game? The role doesn't make sense as a town role, plus FTSP is voting for VFP too

VFP feels even worse to me, after this I'm fine with voting FMFT too. Assuming that's who you mean by FTSP.

[MaxTheFox]

VFP feels even worse to me, after this I'm fine with voting FMFT too. Assuming that's who you mean by FTSP.

This is still scum.

Keep OMGUSing bro.

[MaxTheFox]

Cool my other SR was true.

VOTE: VFP this is still most likely scum.

[MaxTheFox]

I don't believe Gamma is scum at least right now. VFP is the second mafia member. We can do this.

[MaxTheFox]

VFP looks calm but underneath he is melting and fearing for his life... when he's hanged we will just have one scum left.

[MaxTheFox]

Woo! First pagetop!

[MaxTheFox]

He is scum trying to kill me because I am pushing him and SRed his buddy before he said buddy was hanged. I will probs die tonight.

[MaxTheFox]

*the said

[MaxTheFox]

and SRed his buddy

who is VFP's buddy?

FMFT. I scumread FMFT as I mentioned before. I think that is the reason VFP is pushing hard on me.

And I didn't mod anything on-site, you are wrong. I modded a chat mafia game before but the meta is different there.

I'm glad someone finally said something about Johnny's reaction to Lukewarm

You also thought it was weird?

Yes, it reminded me of scum ThinkBig in a previous game I recently was rereading where Dunnstral was scum. They NKed me N1 and TB had planned to frame other players based on my bad reads, and the first thing he said on the morning of D2 was along the lines of "Kyouko knew too much"

Johnny's post morning of D2 also felt a little like that, a sort of rehearsed post that didnt have the intended effect. At the same time though it's not really coordinated with FMFT's activity morning of D2

Pedit: will reconsider Max knowing she's modded recently

Link me the game I allegedly modded. Either I am sleepwalking or you are confusing me with someone.

[MaxTheFox]

I already stated my reason to SR VFP. Most of his content

was

snarky comebacks. He did next to nothing all game besides just stay in the background and try to look townie.

[MaxTheFox]

If he is town then he made a mistake with that dumb playstyle. But unlikely.

[MaxTheFox]

The reason I tunnel on VFP is that he is my only strong SR at this point. Everyone else is null or townie.

[MaxTheFox]

Yeah Nora's weird mistake with claiming that I allegedly modded a game seems more like a town slip-up than scum trying to discredit me. Scum lies wouldn't be so easily falsifiable.

Anyways I'm going to sleep. It's late where I live. Good night.

[MaxTheFox]

I already stated my reason to SR VFP. Most of his content

was

snarky comebacks

. He did next to nothing all game besides just stay in the background and try to look townie.

If he is town

then he made a mistake with that dumb playstyle. But unlikely.

The reason I tunnel on VFP is that he is my only strong SR at this point.

Everyone else is null or townie

.

I still think max is scum. sorry :/
Like just all of this is just so ughhhhhhhhh aGGHHHHHHWHY.
Literally. pain.
Like all of this feels like she's copying me words. And thats literally the epitome of scumminess damnit. Like scum loves to copy other people whether on purpose or subconsciously because it makes people relate to them and think they're towny damnit.
WHY. This literally just makes me SR Max more but then VFP comes over and says that if max is town, im scum and im like SHIT what if Im just getting fucking played by VFP.
wtf why is this so confusing. it was just supposed to be game solved and over. damnit.

What am I supposed to say when I agree with you? Lie about not agreeing?

[MaxTheFox]

And wouldn't a simple "I agree with your reads" be scummier?

[MaxTheFox]

At least where I'm from, passively agreeing with people instead of giving your own but similar reads is a scumtell.

[MaxTheFox]

Cool my other SR was true.

VOTE: VFP this is still most likely scum.

I don't believe Gamma is scum at least right now. VFP is the second mafia member. We can do this.

You too? Has VFP really stood out

more

than Gamma?

Gamma is mild scum at most, VFP is one step away from being a claimed goon.

[MaxTheFox]

Maybe it's because trolls, scum or town, really catch my attention. That is a flaw of mine.

[MaxTheFox]

But you know... Other than VFP, I am still working out my scumreads. Dragons is kinda scummy to me. Yet his low activity prevents me from being very accurate, even for a newbie. Guess that might be a scumtell in and of itself. Unless it's just a lurking townie.

[MaxTheFox]

I stand by my case. VFP looked extremely scummy. Unfortunate that he was town but if normal games could have jesters I'd have thought he was one. But they don't, so I thought he was scum trying to act "cool".

[MaxTheFox]

STD (ow that abbreviation) is scummy to me, on a reevaluation. Very quiet.

[MaxTheFox]

STD (ow that abbreviation) is scummy to me, on a reevaluation. Very quiet.

Can we just call them "Dragons"?

[MaxTheFox]

@MaxTheFox

: Why did it seem like you were trying to steal credit for the FMFT flip?

It was not my intention. I wrote that he was only a moderate scumread for me while he was still alive. There's a reason I voted VFP over him (I was wrong).

Good night.

[MaxTheFox]

Honestly I wonder why Nora didn't die

earlier

. She was the town leader. Maybe mafia was afraid of a protective?

[MaxTheFox]

Yeah, a likely story, but as I wrote that post you followed up that act with another retroactive justification of your play, THIS TIME stealing Noraa’s words as your own.

Again what am I supposed to say if I agreed with Nora's reads (besides the push on me obv)?

[MaxTheFox]

I think Andres is town. He is kinda quiet but not scum quiet. The hammer is NAI or even town-indicative as most people wanted VFP dead anyways.

[MaxTheFox]

Yeah, a likely story, but as I wrote that post you followed up that act with another retroactive justification of your play, THIS TIME stealing Noraa’s words as your own.

Again what am I supposed to say if I agreed with Nora's reads (besides the push on me obv)?

Agreeing with reads is one thing but you stole the stated idea that VFP was acting like a jester

Actually had that idea independently, what am I supposed to say then? Stay silent?

[MaxTheFox]

Shifting blame for whom? It was VFP's fault for acting like blatant scum as VT no matter his alignment. If I didn't push him someone else would.

[MaxTheFox]

There is at least one scum between Gamma and STD.

[MaxTheFox]

I will wait to vote until our next VC.

[MaxTheFox]

Sorry for not talking much I was busy.

Currently re-reading the past few days.

[MaxTheFox]

Alrighty.

I re-read some key moments (stuff leading up to hammers especially) and Gamma has been looking quite scummy under scrutiny.

I won't hammer yet, I'll let people discuss first.

[MaxTheFox]

Gamma dies today tho. I don't want him in LYLO.

[MaxTheFox]

Bruh.

I don't really see a backup cop being in this setup and the timing for ssbm's timing is too convenient.

VOTE: ssbm

[MaxTheFox]

*timing for ssbm's claim

[MaxTheFox]

That was... an interesting play by ssbm.

[MaxTheFox]

I think my IQ is too little to comprehend his genius.

[MaxTheFox]

I am town. Gamma and Dragons are likely to be both scum. Their interactions and general passivity towards each other reek of scumminess.

[MaxTheFox]

Like Gamma has been scumming since like day 2.

[MaxTheFox]

Andres is just wrong town about me.

How the hell has Fenrir been passive towards me????????

I honestly didn't see much interaction between you and STD, and what little you had just seems like scum distancing.

[MaxTheFox]

If this wasn't LYLO with a huge risk I would have voted Gamma right now.

[MaxTheFox]

It did not register as particularly strong (maybe because I pushed harder. More like distancing/bussing.

[MaxTheFox]

Honestly I don't even know why it didn't ping me at first. I'm backreading now and yes you did push pretty hard.

[MaxTheFox]

Anyways, good night.

[MaxTheFox]

Literally everybody is calling Max Scum and they’re not even that much offended by it, just leaving the thread after making a clearly bad argument against Gamma. I don’t want to rush it but honestly outside of ELo my vote would already be there.

The reason I'm not going on a tirade is that then scumbag Gamma and his buddy Dragons would accuse me of flailing. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[MaxTheFox]

But I will be blunt. Gamma is fucking scum and I don't know how you can't see it, Andres.

VOTE: Gamma

[MaxTheFox]

I'm not moving my vote anymore without a very good reason.

TBH I think scum would have quickhammered this already if Gamma was town.

[MaxTheFox]

VOTE GAMMA FAST BEFORE SCUM HAMMERS ME!

[MaxTheFox]

Oh wait Andres unvoted me, I forgot. Still, vote Gamma.

[MaxTheFox]

Because one misguided townie vote on me and it's gg.

[MaxTheFox]

Because Gamma's buddy will hammer.

[MaxTheFox]

It’s hard to trust anyone at this stage, but my feel for the situation is that Max pulled the trigger on a vote because they quickly realized that they were running out of options. I think they always lose a 1v1 against me and they also already said I was Town. Trying to fabricate a case against me at that stage probably looks Scummy as all hell. So instead, they went for the vote they hoped a Town player would make - Gamma.

I don't want to fabricate a case on you because I don't make cases on people who I think are just wrong townies.

[MaxTheFox]

Oh wait Andres unvoted me, I forgot. Still, vote Gamma.

This is also a bit of a perspective slip. If you think about it, if my vote was still on, then what is Fox doing voting for Gamma? I would be guaranteed Scum to them since everyone else came onto the thread already.

I don't get the logic here. You could just... be thinking I am scum?

[MaxTheFox]

You're not team with Gamma. You're team with Dragons/Fenrir.

[MaxTheFox]

*Gamma is team with Fenrir not you. Fuck. It's 12:25 AM here.

[MaxTheFox]

And btw, I don’t think anybody can argue with a straight face that Gamma and I are a Team. Just as much as it is now confirmed that you and I Italiano are not a Team.

The wording on this post tripped me up a bit, English is not my native language.

[MaxTheFox]

Oh wait Andres unvoted me, I forgot. Still, vote Gamma.

This is also a bit of a perspective slip. If you think about it, if my vote was still on, then what is Fox doing voting for Gamma? I would be guaranteed Scum to them since everyone else came onto the thread already.

I don't get the logic here. You could just... be thinking I am scum?

You put a statement out in CAPS saying that the Town needed to quickly vote for Gamma because you could be hammered at any minute. And then you backtracked by saying that my vote was no longer there. But do you really think you

wouldn’t

have been hammered if my vote was still on and I was Town? My vote happened so many hours ago, that’s a completely unbelievable thought process.

It was late on the page.

[MaxTheFox]

Vote Gamma mate. Re-read his ISO.

[MaxTheFox]

i think gamma is town at this point

This is either scum trying to save his partner or another wrong townie.

[MaxTheFox]

For whoever is town to vote Gamma so we don't hand scum the win on a silver platter. Since around day 2 he was pretty scummy, especially on a re-read.

[MaxTheFox]

I don't see Gamma having anyone except Dragons as partner. I just... don't.

[MaxTheFox]

Awake now.

[MaxTheFox]

What does f3 mean?

[MaxTheFox]

GG town loses.

[MaxTheFox]

Scum will hammer me. This is what you get for not seeing how scummy Gamma is.

[MaxTheFox]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Good game everyone! This was a surprising ending, I was so close to just giving up. How did we still almost lose when the town killed their own cop/JK day 1 and then a VT practically threw this?

[MaxTheFox]

Sorry for being rude VFP. I got very determined to mislynch you. Perhaps too determined-- that was brash.

[MaxTheFox]

And let me be honest. Kyouko didn't throw in any case. Throwing requires intent to lose. Otherwise it's just a bad play.