Mafiascum.net

lets have some ideas

• each potion gets a list of at least 3 plants as ingredience
  
• hibiscus
  
• give things that sort of suggest an internal logic to the ingredients (e.g. reuse hibiscus) but like it just doesnt make sense
  
• players are explicitly allowed to claim their ingredients
  
• one player doesn't have a potion

• each player has two health points and dies when they go to zero. gonna say people don't get notified when they lose a health point

potion of Harmography:

at night, you may drink this potion and gaze discerningly at another player. come morning, you will find out each player that enacted a potion action that dealt damage to them.

ingredients: thorn of rose; concentrated carrot oil; barley stem; water

potion of Gulp:

at night, you may drink this potion.

ingredients: hibiscus, lemon extract, soybean stem, soy lecithin, coconut milk

potion of Drink More Potions:

at night, you may drink this potion; it will enable you to drink up to two more potions.

ingredients: ground cacao, pistachio shell, rose thorn, vanilla extract, assorted roots

all actions emerge from potions. whenever a player takes an action, they lose the potion that allowed them to take the action (though the potion may be received by another player). the only technical exception to this is that mafia start the game with information; they did not need to drink any potions to receive it. players may only use a potion at night, though the potion may have effects at other times.

potion of charisma:

at night, you may drink this potion; during the next day, you will have Increased Charisma. any player who disagrees with a statement you make while having Increased Charisma will take 1 HP of damage once the day is over. to "disagree" in this case is to speak in opposition to a claim that you have made, while obviously addressing the statement to you (determined at mod discretion). each player may take one damage at most; i will publicize the effects of this potion on you at the beginning of the relevant day.

ingredients: hop drink; powdered iron; hyacinth; toad urine

potion of true sight:

at night, you may drink this potion and then Truly Look at another player. if that player is town AND started the night without any potions, you will receive Good Vibes from them; otherwise, you'll receive Bad Vibes.

ingredients: concentrated carrot oil; coconut milk; brussel sprouts; cheeto dust

potion of Pain:

at night, you may drizzle this on a player's dinner; they will take 1 HP of damage by the end of the night.

ingredients: powdered iron; coconut milk; chickpeas; freon

potion of Neutralize:

at night, you may pour this potion on another player's feet; it will have a chemical reaction to their shoes, creating a gas that neutralizes any potions they attempt to use that night.

ingredients: motor oil; hibiscus; any vegetable (doesn't matter)

potion of Travelling Potion:

at night, you may hold this potion in an open hand out your window. it will flutter away and be given to a player of your choice.

ingredients: dinosaur urine; witch spit; hibiscus; daisy stem; chickpeas; essence of foreceps; one french fry; cheeto dust; concentrated carrot oil

town:

• clonk; Harmography; true sight; gulp; drink more potions
  
• Harmography; Harmography; Pain; Pain
  
• Pain, Pain
  
• Travelling Potion
  
• Gulp
  
• Pain
  
• no potions

mafia:

• pain; pain; clonk; drink more potions
  
• clonk; pain; neutralize; neutralize; charisma

additionally:

• they are informed of the distribution of potion counts among townies: 5/4/2/1/1/1/0
  
• they are informed that three people have the potion of harmography, including 5 & 4
  
• they are allowed to choose which player receives which set of potions

.

this setup sucks

town:

• clonk; Harmography; True Speech and Become Drunk; Harmography; drink more potions
  
• gulp; true sight; Pain; Pain
  
• Pain, Pain
  
• Gulp, Gulp
  
• Travelling Potion
  
• Pain
  
• no potions

mafia:

• pain; pain; clonk; drink more potions
  
• clonk; pain; neutralize; neutralize; charisma

additionally:

• they are informed of the distribution of potion counts among townies: 5/4/2/2/1/1/0
  
• they are informed that there exist two Potions of Harmography and one potion of true sight (and what those are), distributed between 5 & 4
  
• at the end of day 1, mafia distribute their inventory of potions between the two members as they wish

.

• players have 2 HP, and die when their HP goes to 0. nobody knows what their HP is other than that it starts at 2
  
• all actions emerge from potions. whenever a player takes an action, they lose the potion that allowed them to take the action (though the potion may be received by another player). the only exceptions to this are that mafia have a factional inventory of potions, and choose the distribution of potions between the members at the end of day 1; also, they have some amount of factional information and daytalk. players may only use a potion at night, though the potion may have effects at other times. there is not a factional nightkill.
  
• players are explicitly allowed to claim their ingredients

.

errata: maybe this current setup does not suck

thinkin that i should change the ingredients of duplicate potions (not very complicatedly, probably reuse a bunch of things as i have been doing). ideally there's like snags in that process e.g. sometimes people have the same ingredients

hello hello

is the limit one potion per night by default?

In post 5, schadd_ wrote:they are allowed to choose which player receives which set of potions

what does this part mean?

schadd_ wrote:thinkin that i should change the ingredients of duplicate potions (not very complicatedly, probably reuse a bunch of things as i have been doing). ideally there's like snags in that process e.g. sometimes people have the same ingredients

also this? so like, a person with two pain potions might have slightly different (but somewhat overlapping) ingredients lists on their two pain potions, or more like some of the pain ingredients and some of the clonk ingredients will overlap?

hi

one potion per night by default: correct, ought to put that in the rules

on night 0, i will tell mafia about these two potion inventories (pain pain clonk DMP & clonk pain neutralize neutralize charisma) and then the two of them choose which person gets which inventory. this is something i've done in the past. hmm, it sort of contradictory to the statements abt actions only happening via potion - maybe i'll just tell everybody that it's happening bc its not that big a deal

i wrote in post 0 that the logic of the ingredients is intended to pull against any obvious logic - i would hope to have pain potions be almost completely different from each other, and almost completely different from clonk potions. except also maybe one pain potion from town is identical to one that a mafia member has. something like that. the thing you quoted, i was just noting to myself that i have to conjure up more ingredients for each duplicate potion

not that I mind ingredients as a piece of the setup, but then is there a purpose behind having the ingredients list? just to induce maximum confusion?

i think theyre fun. and yeah all the mystery box setups have had a large element of noise, this kind of allows it to exist in every role

anyway, as far as balance i think the big considerations are the small grab bag of invest power (2 shots of kind-of-watcher, 1 shot of friendly neighbor, 1 super conditional cop) and relatively democratized kill power (so like town has about half of the nightkill abilities). those two things are kind of in conflict, like maybe the friendly neighbor gets Pained to death right as they're using their stuff

will look at roles tonight, but my first instinct is that mafia need a bit more killing power? I’m mostly thinking in the event the drinkmorepotions mafia is eliminated D1, then clonkmafia is kind of stuck hoping they hit someone that someone else is also doing damage to. could the drinkmorepotions be a team potion?

mm, that was the motivation for mafia self-selecting their potion inventories - they give their stronger player the one with DMP (dave matthews potions) and if their stronger player gets executed D1, well i think that scumteam would lose a convincingly large portion of the time without my help (moreover i think games where one of the mafia really really has to stay alive are interestingㅡi think white flag setups encourage teamwork in an appreciable way). if that bothers you though, i'd be fine having the potion distribution get decided at the start of night 1 (also entertaining the idea that mafia just get this set of 9 potions and are free to distribute them however they choose, which is even more of a boon when one of them dies d1)

just taking note separately: thinking that people flip with alignment and # of potions, though i won't say what the potions were

very sorry, this is on my to do list for today!

In post 12, schadd_ wrote:mm, that was the motivation for mafia self-selecting their potion inventories - they give their stronger player the one with DMP (dave matthews potions) and if their stronger player gets executed D1, well i think that scumteam would lose a convincingly large portion of the time without my help (moreover i think games where one of the mafia really really has to stay alive are interestingㅡi think white flag setups encourage teamwork in an appreciable way). if that bothers you though, i'd be fine having the potion distribution get decided at the start of night 1 (also entertaining the idea that mafia just get this set of 9 potions and are free to distribute them however they choose, which is even more of a boon when one of them dies d1)

ooohhhh I misread that as "mafia are allowed to choose which town players receive 5 & 4" which was really confusing me. I am good with this part of the setup as written in post 5 with no changes.

up to 2 clears (friendly neighbor + potionless-town-checker) but probably close to 1 on average
if both mafia survive D1, they would be able to kill someone (multitasking-maker + 2 half-vig-shots) and roleblock someone else
if drinkmorepotions mafia dies D1, clonkmafia effectively loses control of kills
assuming 1-shot friendly neighbor gets used on N1 but not the potionless-town-checker, up to 3 half-vig shots could get used by town on N1

so in D2 we are in something like 6 alive with 1 clear
in D3 something like 4-5 alive (assume clear is killed unless drinkmorepotions mafia died)

I think I'm going back to - it does feel a bit punishing that not only does mafia lose their killing power when drinkmorepotions dies, but town also gets more powerful because of the potionless-town-checker which becomes more useful as people use their potions. Is there a way we can make the potionless-town-checker less powerful in lategame to counteract the weakness of mafia in lategame once they lose/use their killing power?

will think abt balance in the morning but i just remembered the name of the game is "plant-based potions" and i seem to have jettisoned that idea from my mind as i was making some of the ingredients. i still plan to proceed emphatically with the same game title. does that like make the game bastard? lol? i'll just be like "yup those are all plants. i dont know what to tell you"

"plant-based" could be interpreted ambiguously. as long as some non-insignificant portion of the potion consists of plants (ie one ingredient in each potion. who's to say that one ingredient isn't like 30% of the potion), I think they could still be called "plant-based."

In post 16, lilith2013 wrote:Is there a way we can make the potionless-town-checker less powerful in lategame to counteract the weakness of mafia in lategame once they lose/use their killing power?

just to note, i think i've sold myself on free-potion-distribution-at-end-of-day-1. also, i think i want charisma to give you another potion for free because it just wouldn't ever get used i think (it's debatable whether it's even a good thing for mafia to use really). also, i think i am interested in informing mafia about true sight & how it belongs to either 5 or 4.

the big worrisome night for true sight potion i think is n2, since in theory they can clear up to 4 people just blindfiring. yeah that's kind of a high number actually, i hadnt thought about it that much. i think i'll give the person with the gulp potion, another gulp potion. i'm not really worried about clears on night 3, by that time there's a lot of room for people to die in a way that makes it impossible, and it's also always elo at that point so clears aren't extraordinarily powerful. also keep in mind that travelling potion can make its way to one of those unpotioned individuals & make the neapotion not work on them

to recap (updating post 5):

• mafia distributes their potions freely eod1 (this will be made clear publically)
  
• charisma allows another potion to be drunk
  
• mafia informed of potion of true sight
  
• Gulp townie -> Gulp, Gulp

feel free to come up with extra ingredients at your leisure btw, i'm sure there's entire categories of plant that you'd know about that i have just been totally missing

I'm good with all of these changes and I think that appropriately addresses my concerns (in a set of somewhat roundabout ways, but I think that works well with the premise of the setup/series). I'm ready to approve.

Here are some plant suggestions for you:
- wormwood
- corn silk
- sunflower seeds
- monkshood/wolf's bane
- tomato juice
- celery stalks
- bark of magnolia (or insert other tree here)
- ginger root
- nightshade
- moonflower
- any kind of pepper seeds (cayenne! shishito! ghost pepper! carolina reaper!)
- pink peppercorn
- grape skins or peeled grapes
- rinds of citrus fruits, like orange or grapefruit
- pomelo
- azalea petals

Ok well i will be using every last one of these

htank you

here's some more:
- crocus bulbs
- lotus leaf
- pineapple frond
- cucumber seeds
- hedge clippings from the Levens Hall topiary garden