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[osuka]

alright nerds i was out all day yesterday at a concert and i just woke up. everything hurts but im catching up here

[osuka]

I noticed that the site meta has changed over time.

It used to be that power roles were helpful to the town, and that claims helped solve the game. This is no longer true.

I just finished playing Sybil's Elegy which was a great example of the role distribution being designed to confuse at best, and F up at worse, the town. I have played others with similar anti-town mod shenanigans.

Here's the deal.

We should not claim, ever.

Treating the game as mountainous will increase our chances of winning.

What we should do (and I include vanilla townies) is to crumb our night choices somehow BEFORE the night. Vanilla townies must crumb fake targets.

When you're dead, and we know your role and alignment, we can go back and use the crumbs for the solve.

Solving games by way of RESULTS and CLAIMED ROLES will not work. It just doesn't work anymore.

hottest take of all time

i see nobody's waiting to post stupid shit, it's page 1 and we're already losing brain cells

[osuka]

what if you're shit at crumbing things

i can't believe i forgot to vote

VOTE: osuka

VOTE: std

[osuka]

I mean, the way I feel rn is that DGB's proposal is a little anti-town and

you could maybe make the argument that she's open wolfing

but then I could easily see a town DGB that got burnt and legit thinks it a good idea to lynch without claims and play this like a scumsided mountainous setup. I think DW sees that this can be bad and is opposed to it. I'm surprised that Rathe and Titus also think DGB's proposal is good. I feel like Peta is scum that's just trying to chum up to DGB and her proposal generally benefits his faction.

dgb doesn't lead with that post as scum, lol at you trying to hedge on that too

and you know that because?

[osuka]

if you think I'm scum reading DGB then you really aren't reading my posts. Also, you are being pretty manipulative with that cherry pick.

Also, the fact that you are taking the opportunity to argue about DGB instead of what I said about you doesn't feel right.

i know you're not but you blatantly hedged in that post which shows a lack of willingness to commit to the townread, don't try to misrep

i care way less about dgb's proposal (which i've barely commented on) than trying to sort the alignment of dgb as well as the people reacting to it, arguing like my nefarious plan is to get people to play mechanically suboptimal is disingenuous horseshit. seen enough of dgb who's had a real rough string of games (one of which was my fault) to say that's a town opener. arguing that someone making a "correct" argument about how to play a normal setup must be town for it is bad reasoning, scum love to get caught up in boring arguments about mechanics that they "truly believe" and acting like arguing against dgb is "protown" or w/e is an easy stance to take that offers nothing

a "rough string of games" does not excuse a braindead argument like that from a player that you're portraying as being competent and has a 16 year old account

[osuka]

why is he echoing me

[osuka]

minus all the intelligent bits

[osuka]

like it seems totally reasonable to me that DW would call bullshit on a plan that clearly helps the scum team and peta's argument that it's just

LAMIST

falls flat for me.

could someone besides me start posting?

are you seriously suggesting that 20 is towny? that's textbook iioa and is such an obvious thing to say that it doesn't even require much higher-order thinking as scum to do that

[osuka]

a "rough string of games" does not excuse a braindead argument like that from a player that you're portraying as being competent and has a 16 year old account

dgb has seen people screw up multiple games recently with bad setup spec assumptions and it's perfectly understandable from that perspective. do i intend to play that way? not really. but that's irrelevant for my read on it

you say it's braindead, do you think dgb is scummy for making that post?

i don't think that's necessarily scummy, it's just a really stupid post. imo that kind of post can either be just a really bad case of head up ass, _or_ it could be sort of underhanded in that it tries to push forward a strategy that is ultimately pro-scum

time will tell because i don't think that post means a lot in terms of alignment, in a vacuum. if shit like that keeps cropping up, i think the slot could be scum yes

[osuka]

@all i'm going to catch up after work today, be back in a few hours

i'm confident vfp is just following me. how are your juicers, vfp

[osuka]

I like osuka as town. His inconsistencies are unlikely to be scummy as scum would likely just pick one side or the other.

@T3, How is Rathe different?

my inconsistencies?

[osuka]

somebody finally posted in my pt but they're trying to convince me now that they're a wolf and i should vote for them even though it's a mason pt...

cute

normally id say youre full of shit but knowing you, i'm having a hard time saying this is AI at all

[osuka]

I'm not understanding why people are saying Nero Cain is town

he's towny? like look at 160 - why would scum nero feel the need to post that? he couldve just stayed quiet and all wouldve been fine for him

[osuka]

What can I say, I'm starting to warm up to you.

Also, am I in a position to coast day 1 or no?

also cute

dont start with this shit, you know better. i dont wanna have to start going off about your brain cell count AGAIN

[osuka]

we could just lynch you if you didn't feel like playing

That's the spirit!

i'm with it

VOTE: vfp

[osuka]

i'm just gonna claim it and say kyouko is the person in the pt with me

he's been non stop trolling me and saying he's totally a wolf and i should vote for him and i'm starting to believe him

VOTE: kyouko

are you claiming neighbor

[osuka]

if it is on mafia its cuz the partners bussed

this is obvious and stupid at the same time

scum hardly ever has any good reason to hardbus d1, get your head out of your ass

[osuka]

i guess the hood is actually real? i assumed anya was doing a bit or something

anya might honestly be doing a bit

she's always doing a bit, it's just hard to know what about

[osuka]

i lied about catching up i tried reading everything and it's making my eyes glaze over i'm just going to roll with my gut

VOTE: petapan

inclined to sheep this but i do want to at least make an effort to catch up

[osuka]

VOTE: osuka

what the fuck did i do?

[osuka]

everyone is saying he is town but i dont think so

VOTE: osuka

hey andres you seem to have misplaced one of your sheep

it's out here saying stupid shit, please come pick it up

[osuka]

i find myself currently wondering if rathe is physically incapable of ceasing to make posts that kill my brain cells

[osuka]

in other news i think nero is likely to be town, even if i'm not quite sure if i agree that nom is scum

[osuka]

I like osuka as town. His inconsistencies are unlikely to be scummy as scum would likely just pick one side or the other.

@T3, How is Rathe different?

my inconsistencies?

Just realized I forgot to answer this and now I can't remember what I was thinking.

maybe you should work on your inconsistencies

[osuka]

someone tell me if i'm being a moron

does a peta/dgb scumteam sound plausible? i don't feel like i have a great grip on their interactions so far, especially since most have been effectively by proxy

[osuka]

i guess the hood is actually real? i assumed anya was doing a bit or something

anya might honestly be doing a bit

she's always doing a bit, it's just hard to know what about

i lied about catching up i tried reading everything and it's making my eyes glaze over i'm just going to roll with my gut

VOTE: petapan

inclined to sheep this but i do want to at least make an effort to catch up

you're not really talking to me like someone who finds me scummy?

what the fuck is this even supposed to mean? is my tone supposed to match what you expect it to be for a given read you think i have on you?

get your head out of your ass

[osuka]

was probably about how he was critical of both dgb's opener and nero's townread of dwlee

Don't ever do this. It's scummy as fuck. It stops me from reading Osaka's reaction to my genuineness. Plus it hands Osuka an argument that my answer was spoonfed that he can capitalize on as scum or he can't townread me for the same reason if he's town.

how am i supposed to react to "i forgot"? that's a non-answer

[osuka]

i guess the hood is actually real? i assumed anya was doing a bit or something

anya might honestly be doing a bit

she's always doing a bit, it's just hard to know what about

i lied about catching up i tried reading everything and it's making my eyes glaze over i'm just going to roll with my gut

VOTE: petapan

inclined to sheep this but i do want to at least make an effort to catch up

you're not really talking to me like someone who finds me scummy?

what the fuck is this even supposed to mean? is my tone supposed to match what you expect it to be for a given read you think i have on you?

get your head out of your ass

what's got you so grumpy?

512 is a stupid post and it leads nowhere

why are you dodging the question?

[osuka]

was probably about how he was critical of both dgb's opener and nero's townread of dwlee

Don't ever do this. It's scummy as fuck. It stops me from reading Osaka's reaction to my genuineness. Plus it hands Osuka an argument that my answer was spoonfed that he can capitalize on as scum or he can't townread me for the same reason if he's town.

how am i supposed to react to "i forgot"? that's a non-answer

Try to see if you feel my forgetfulness is genuine or not

i felt like it

your move

[osuka]

was probably about how he was critical of both dgb's opener and nero's townread of dwlee

Don't ever do this. It's scummy as fuck. It stops me from reading Osaka's reaction to my genuineness. Plus it hands Osuka an argument that my answer was spoonfed that he can capitalize on as scum or he can't townread me for the same reason if he's town.

how am i supposed to react to "i forgot"? that's a non-answer

Try to see if you feel my forgetfulness is genuine or not

i felt like it

your move

You felt like what?

felt like it was genuine

are you even reading?

[osuka]

maybe Titus is scum for playing up this "nero and I never agree!" stuff

can you elaborate

ive only ever played with titus like maybe twice that i recall

[osuka]

maybe Titus is scum for playing up this "nero and I never agree!" stuff

can you elaborate

ive only ever played with titus like maybe twice that i recall

Nero and I have more baggage than O'Hare.

yeah i gathered that much

[osuka]

was probably about how he was critical of both dgb's opener and nero's townread of dwlee

Don't ever do this. It's scummy as fuck. It stops me from reading Osaka's reaction to my genuineness. Plus it hands Osuka an argument that my answer was spoonfed that he can capitalize on as scum or he can't townread me for the same reason if he's town.

how am i supposed to react to "i forgot"? that's a non-answer

Try to see if you feel my forgetfulness is genuine or not

i felt like it

your move

You felt like what?

felt like it was genuine

are you even reading?

Can the smartass and proofread your posts at least to get your point across. I'm not in the mood for bullshit.

i know for a fact youre not an idiot so youre either not trying at all or youre being obtuse on purpose

here's how the conversation went, verbatim

see if you feel my forgetfulness is genuine or not

i felt like it

[osuka]

512 is a stupid post and it leads nowhere

why are you dodging the question?

i felt it was a fairly innocuous question that hardly warranted the response you gave it, you seem to be leaning into this performative grouchiness schtick for reasons i'm not entirely sure of

i thought it was weird that your response to me asking about anya was entirely level headed and reasonable, like you were just conversing back with me, but then you quote std mentioning i could be scum and you're like "oh yeah i could go that way" without any sort of indicator otherwise. like, generally i don't just converse regularly with people i'm scumreading

but i'm not even saying it means anything for your alignment! it was just weird, i brought it up to ask about it and i have no idea why you took such umbrage to it

i get annoyed when people are posting things that one cannot objectively describe as intelligent

i'm annoyed right now

[osuka]

Alright, starting to catch up on new posts:

also, sorry for traveling back in time, but i'm just catching up here so i'll be hopping back and forth

Okay, reading everything to catch up now. I'm at the end of page 5 and I'm not understanding the evolution of peta's argument. It started with scum reading Dwlee99 for being too pedantic when it just seemed like he was disagreeing with DGB's strategy. And now if anything peta's posts are just trying to twist anything they can to put the fire on other people over nothing. I really haven't played much mafia and I'm not familiar with petapan as a player, but their playstyle this game seems overly aggro.

Unofficial vote on peta here. gonna continue reading

is aggression scummy to you?

I don't think aggression alone is scummy; I think aggression combined with irrationality and/or it being different from a person's normal gameplay is scummy. And I just don't agree with your rationalization of your scum reads and the points you kept twisting to make claims about Dwlee & Nero. I read it as very "you going on the offensive so someone else is always forced to defend". Like I prefaced in that post, I'm not familiar with you as a player so I'll have to go through some old games of yours to see if going super aggro is town behavior from you; I just haven't had time to go through any of your recent games yet. That's why I made it an unofficial vote. But the aggro + (imo) irrational takes is what made that an initial scum read.

i can play aggressive as either alignment but in general am more likely to do it as town, i linked a recent scumgame of mine (mini 2180) in one of my posts, you can see there i was far more cautious than this one. in general aggression is more of a personality trait than an alignment one

ive said it several times over and ill say it again: self meta is completely worthless

please get the piss poor play out of here

[osuka]

that's a moronic reply to what i just said

if you're acutely aware of that _and_ highly confident of it, as can be concluded from 538, there is quite literally nothing stopping you from intentionally playing differently in order to achieve a goal (whatever that may be) - thus rendering the self-meta argument worthless

i seriously hope i wont have to explain everything in detail to you for the rest of the game

[osuka]

@ osuka

the inconsistency Titus was talking about was when you called DGB opener stupid but don't think DW is town for opposing it.

I mean Titus could be playing up the oblivious card here but I also don't think its impossible that she really did forget.

it's trivial to oppose a strategy of that caliber

[osuka]

doesn't take a lot of effort, doesn't take a lot of brains

[osuka]

that's a moronic reply to what i just said

if you're acutely aware of that _and_ highly confident of it, as can be concluded from 538, there is quite literally nothing stopping you from intentionally playing differently in order to achieve a goal (whatever that may be) - thus rendering the self-meta argument worthless

i seriously hope i wont have to explain everything in detail to you for the rest of the game

the argument that me playing a certain way is null is worthless? like dude you just seemed to have jumped intoattacking what i was saying without bothering to understand it, and you're accusing me of not understandingg you

how would i "intentionally play different to achieve a goal" off the statement "i can play aggressive as either alignment"? it's only saying that a certain behavior isn't a scumtell for me, there's nothing for me to manipulate because i've just self-described it as null

if you want to say "i'm more likely to be aggressive as town" is worthless, then sure, whatever, you're under no obligation to believe me! but you don't have to blow a gasket over it. you seem to be flying off the handle over a reflexive dislike of self-meta, but this seems to be a discussion that is almost entirely in the theoretical realm that is unlikely to be useful to the game we are actually playing right now


can you take a breather and calm down for a minute? what are your reads right now?

i can play aggressive as either alignment but in general am more likely to do it as town, i linked a recent scumgame of mine (mini 2180) in one of my posts, you can see there i was far more cautious than this onee

oh yes but please do go on about how that wasn't a towncase on yourself

[osuka]

toniiiiiiight

[osuka]

im gonna have myself a real good time

[osuka]

i feel ali i I IIIIIVE

[osuka]

i'm gonna catch up here in a second, so

[osuka]

don't

[osuka]

stop

[osuka]

me

[osuka]

nooooow

[osuka]

oh yes but please do go on about how that wasn't a towncase on yourself

i wouldn't really expect to be taken at my own word after a single line dude

what are your reads

read: "i slipped please don't kill me"

yeah get out of here

top scumreads are you, rathe, and dgb, i think nero could be town. unsure about anya because she's just hard to read like that. i townread andres but i always townread andres so really take that with a pinch of salt

need to figure out nom, titus, dunn, std

[osuka]

mod-can we get a prod on Noraa?

Noraa is the backup mod my guy

ahahahahahah what the fuck

i can't say ive ever seen this

[osuka]

Hard lurk.

that's rich, coming from you

[osuka]

kyouko's posting game things that make a little more sense in the dungeon now

he's still talking to me like he knows i'm town but whatever

VOTE: nom

can you elaborate

[osuka]

why don't you tell us instead why nom is a bad wagon.

pretty sad misrep

when did titus ever say that? she said she doesn't understand it (i don't really either), not that it was bad

[osuka]

i guess the hood is actually real? i assumed anya was doing a bit or something

anya might honestly be doing a bit

she's always doing a bit, it's just hard to know what about

What makes you think the hood is a bit?

i didn't say that i think the hood is a bit. that implies confidence, which i do not have. i said it _might_ be a bit in that honestly fucking anything anya does could be a bit at any given point in time, and more often than not you'll really never know with any measurable degree of confidence

learn to read

[osuka]

I still don't know why you see scum!osuka here
Also i saw you don't want to vote Kyouko and I don't know why, care to elaborate on that

look at my iso i said y n its more like osuka stands out more than kyouko right now i havent rly read kyouko yet but i will

you have yet to flesh out why you think i "stand out"

i'll wait for your brain to cool down after this series of posts

[osuka]

Peta can you answer 504?

no

VOTE: petapan

piss poor. words fail me, and i know a lot of words. i know the best words, trust me. i have all the best words, and there are no words in the english language to describe the quality of this play so far

i might have said this at some point, but this is like a dumpster fire except the dumpster is falling down a flight of stairs and into a crowded hospital maternity ward where they keep high explosives

[osuka]

like seriously that is so anti town and just such a stupid reply to a completely legitimate line of questioning that i can't even imagine that comes from any town with more brain cells than they have digits so this slot kind of has to be scum

[osuka]

oh yes but please do go on about how that wasn't a towncase on yourself

i wouldn't really expect to be taken at my own word after a single line dude

what are your reads

read: "i slipped please don't kill me"

yeah get out of here

top scumreads are you, rathe, and dgb, i think nero could be town. unsure about anya because she's just hard to read like that. i townread andres but i always townread andres so really take that with a pinch of salt

need to figure out nom, titus, dunn, std

how is that supposed to be a slip

you made a point and immediately backpedaled on it because you either didn't realize you said something that didn't match what you actually wanted to do, or just straight up fucked it and there's a crack in your fabricated reality

either way you put it that makes you +scum than before, especially in light of how shit your handling of my response was

[osuka]

hey now

[osuka]

marilyn manson?

[osuka]

Peta can you answer 504?

no

VOTE: petapan

piss poor. words fail me, and i know a lot of words. i know the best words, trust me. i have all the best words, and there are no words in the english language to describe the quality of this play so far

i might have said this at some point, but this is like a dumpster fire except the dumpster is falling down a flight of stairs and into a crowded hospital maternity ward where they keep high explosives

its nice reading posts written by someone with the mental maturity of an edgy teenager who listens to marilyn manson

i'll wait for you to try to justify the unjustifiable

if you get close to anything close to remotely resembling "not the worst i've ever seen i suppose", i'll give you a pass

[osuka]

oh yes but please do go on about how that wasn't a towncase on yourself

i wouldn't really expect to be taken at my own word after a single line dude

what are your reads

read: "i slipped please don't kill me"

yeah get out of here

top scumreads are you, rathe, and dgb, i think nero could be town. unsure about anya because she's just hard to read like that. i townread andres but i always townread andres so really take that with a pinch of salt

need to figure out nom, titus, dunn, std

how is that supposed to be a slip

you made a point and immediately backpedaled on it because you either didn't realize you said something that didn't match what you actually wanted to do, or just straight up fucked it and there's a crack in your fabricated reality

either way you put it that makes you +scum than before, especially in light of how shit your handling of my response was

no i just made an argument you didn't like and you blew a fucking gasket and called me scum for it, because apparently only scum do things that displease baby osuka

no, you made a towncase on yourself based on dogshit self-meta and immediately afterwards went on to say that it was meant to say that it didn't mean anything

you know, five posts after you portrayed it as meaning you're town

[osuka]

are you even trying?

[osuka]

Peta can you answer 504?

no

VOTE: petapan

piss poor. words fail me, and i know a lot of words. i know the best words, trust me. i have all the best words, and there are no words in the english language to describe the quality of this play so far

i might have said this at some point, but this is like a dumpster fire except the dumpster is falling down a flight of stairs and into a crowded hospital maternity ward where they keep high explosives

its nice reading posts written by someone with the mental maturity of an edgy teenager who listens to marilyn manson

i'll wait for you to try to justify the unjustifiable

if you get close to anything close to remotely resembling "not the worst i've ever seen i suppose", i'll give you a pass

i currently scumread him and have no desire to defend myself to a scumread, because i don't care what he does

wow that wasn't hard

alright

can you justify it to me or do i have to get you to contribute to this game by proxy

[osuka]

@mod: vla for ~36 hours from this post

sorry all, i promise to make it up to you nerds

[osuka]

It's more that a 1 town and 1 scum neighborhood sounds weird.

neighborhoods are inherently nai. that's what makes them different from masons, where everyone is _known_ to be town

there is no alignment information about anyone in the neighborhood. it could be 2 town, 1 town 1 scum, and even 2 scum if the mod and the nrg decided to troll the shit out of everyone

[osuka]

okay so upon rereading I think I scumlean towards T3 and STD the most
T3 hands out townreads very easily and yet does feel so much more reluctant calling anyone scum which feels like a big red flag to me.
STD feels like a slot posting for the sake of posting, I can see scum easily posting stuff like

what if you're shit at crumbing things

i can't believe i forgot to vote

VOTE: osuka

mostly only posts when mentioned, 615 also feels really preemptive defense when vfp didn't say why he scumread him
the only post I think could indicate town!std is this one

VOTE: Dunnstral

i like osuka for town

i like petapan for town

i like titus for town

i like nero cain for town

but again very little reasoning towards the votes, and the vote on Dunn feels like a safe non committal vote
I wish I could vote both slots, but I think std's iso is much more scummy
VOTE: std

have you ever played with std before?

[osuka]

I think I like dw's slot a bit better for town after rereading as well
There are still many question marks in my head but I guess this was a worthwhile reread :P

This is still scum.
Couldn't benefit from the push so soft town now.

i can barely tell what you're saying here

[osuka]

one thing that does jump out at me is that even though vfp sounds towny, he's _way_ too active compared to his previous games and i think he flipped town in all of them? maybe he was scum in the last? who knows? i certainly don't

[osuka]

VOTE: ssbm

????

[osuka]

i changed my mind nomnomnom seems town

i am posting just to post was overextended now work is kicking my ass and i'm trying not to get involved in the pedantic discussions this game because i don't quite find them interesting. my play, in short, is scummy and i'm often scumread for it but that's just kind of the way i play i guess.

@dwlee you really lost that game to tris i did fuck all and nearly got caught but i'm curious...is there anything about that game that makes you think i'm scum here or is your vote out of spite?

your play this game is _nothing_ like the last time we played together just a couple weeks ago. what changed?

[osuka]

anyway, the answer is only ever going to boil down to "i've played with dgb before and the things you are claiming are strange amount to playstyle quirks rather than anything alignment indicative". that's unlikely to satisfy you and i absolutely do not give a fuck


on a skim of the noughts and crosses game i actually think save the dragons is qualitatively different here than he was in that game, BUT that is an unusual setup and not nearly as familiar with him based on a small sample so i wouldn't strongly base my read of him off that. do think he's playing the game in a towny way

he just flipped town in a previous game of ours and he was most definitely playing _very_ differently

is it a leap to assume he was town in noughts and crosses?

[osuka]

like i dont think he's playing scummy or anything, it's just that he's so markedly different than he was that that stands out pretty badly in a slot that is otherwise towny

kinda thought he would pick up at some point but that has yet to happen

[osuka]

Wow both Anya and kyuoko are scum.

is your case on anya that she is voting a slot you like?

[osuka]

man, you need to chill out.

shut up idiot

i see you went to the osuka school of discourse

i dig it

[osuka]

i think tilted nero on page 35 has to be town, right?

[osuka]

Nomnomnom is Town. If anybody tries to execute there, they’re Scum. Just so we’re clear.

oh hi youre alive

care to elaborate

[osuka]

VOTE: Nero

VOTE: nero

i'm now convinced that nero is probtown because there's no way both of these slots flip green, so i'm officially against the nero wagon

[osuka]

VOTE: rathe

VOTE: rathe

willing to sheep this

[osuka]

I just think she's lurky as scum.

VLA until Monday

:wink:

quit the angleshooting dogshit please

[osuka]

Why do you think nom is town without reading?

What makes you think I haven’t read? I haven’t fully caught up, but I’ve read enough. They’re Town. I’ve been surer about other things in games before, but I really do think that slot is just Town. I’m trying to decide which one of you is the Scum hiding behind the bad push still, and I’m not sure. I would say Rathe, but it’s not clear.

yes rathe is scum good job andres

hop on the wagon, buddy

[osuka]

oh fuck, it's one of these days huh? i get off work and there's 20 pages

[osuka]

I have never played with VFP can someone tell me if he makes this kind of outrageously scummy post as town
pedit: LOL

vfp has his head at least partially up his ass most of the time, yes

[osuka]

for what it's worth i think vfp can be town for now

[osuka]

oh fuck, it's one of these days huh? i get off work and there's 20 pages

Yes, and they're deplorably devoid of signs of intelligence, just have a nightcap and hit the sack.

same shit different day

what else is new?

[osuka]

lol do you even read the garbage you write

this is not a "woe is me" this is the Mith honest truth. It's only you and nom whining and crying that I'm twisting your words and I haven't. I just felt like you were very active at the beginning of the game and then when you started getting wagon I felt you were less active. And Titus I accused of active lurking BEFORE she went v/la but its not like you give a shit about the actual evidence.

your "actual evidence" is that everyone who doesn't shit up the thread 24/7 like a fucking goon is lurking, it's idiotic and no one in their right mind would believe it

I think the actual evidence was the post number of the post where Nero accused Titus of active lurking was less than the post number where Titus announced she was going VLA

can we stop with the lurk vla bullshit? people don't play mafia full time and i'm getting tired of hearing the same braindead bullshit that's been going on for several pages now

[osuka]

Plus I see the post thread view count going up so someone keeps checking in without posting.

this means nothing

please stop posting dumb shit

[osuka]

you know at this point I just want to reveal the masquerade for what it is
VOTE: nom

??????

[osuka]

Sigh

Nom is town.

why?

[osuka]

I'm happy to end the day. But it's me or Nom.
I'm sure Nom is just waiting a while now to say they were busy.... but that's just convenient, don't buy it.
Plus I see the post thread view count going up so someone keeps checking in without posting.

Mind you

VFP could be bus'ing.

i think i missed the vfp-nom associative case. can you enlighten me? i think vfp is probably going to flip green here and i think if the two alignments are _necessarily_ the same, they're more likely to be town than scum because of my vfp read

[osuka]

Nom sounds like town frustration.

No, Nom sounds like scum giving up.

scum self vote as ATE sometimes. town certainly self vote out of frustration.

Why are you calling me scum but talking to me lke im town?

Nom sounds like town frustration.

can scum be frustrated too?

doesn't town give up sometimes as well?

[osuka]

Come on Peta, make a stand!

my stand is i don't think either of you are scum sorry dude

Well one of us is scum.

why, because you got into an argument?

Exactly that!
Now pick a vote.

vfp flexing his juicers as usual

[osuka]

If I'm a vig I'll vig Nero
If investigative I'll investigate Dwlee
If protective, I'll protect the obvious masons.

okay real quick who are the obvious masons

[osuka]

VOTE: DGB

Nah, this ain't it. I'm not seeing why people started SRing DGB. Their style of posts haven't changed at all since the same people town read them at the start of the game, even if you find their most recent posts, to quote you, "cringe"

It is like every post is meant to infuriate me in a subtle way that I think means it is scum.

Infuriates me = scum is not the best take I've seen. Half the people in this game have been outright rude to each other repeatedly lol

It's about the way it irritates me though. There is a qualitative difference between how DGB's posts bother me and the way that the people being rude bothers me.

????????????

[osuka]

Do you notice that they unvote rather than vote scum me?
Thats because scum do not want flips within me and Nom here, Nom included.

Even the "self vote" was a shitty attempt at AtE like I called. Nom agreed that they should be okay with the lim on them to find me as scum, and suddenly unvotes and not even votes me?
This shows that the self vote and posting was just fake yesterday.

Osuka, where you at?
Too many players are trying to dodge this behaviour from Nom. Get to voting there!
Or even me. I really don't give a shit other than voting outside of us.

SCUM. DO. NOT. WANT. THIS. DUAL!
Scum are not voting in us.

Look at who's voting, and who's dodging. It says a lot.

ive said this already but i'm waiting on the associative case between you and nom

i think youre town but im not a huge fan of the nom wagon as i understand it, though admittedly i dont think i fully understand everything that's going on there. so, i'd rather wait before deciding if i want to switch my vote and vote between the two of you

[osuka]

Can't sleep, too much coffee I guess
@vfp I assume you're an alt? on the offchance you don't care about revealing your main username I'd very much like to read your previous games

I'm not actually hiding my main and have said in a few games so I guess it's a don't ask don't tell. It's Vedith.
I haven't played on there for years though, and this is my only other account I use.

I also know that you have no intent to read any games either. Because you're just scum.

oh wow vedith? i definitely didnt see that one coming

[osuka]

i'd lim T3 here

???????????????

[osuka]

Don't really want to suggest that Titus went v/la just b/c she is scum as she's prob busy IRL and that has nothing to do with her scum pm here but going v/la for the rest of the day phase and not unvoting seems kinda ass.

that's the least "kinda ass" thing about this game so far

[osuka]

it's a bizarre move too because dgb prior to that had been all about saying nom is town and defending him hard, but suddenly because of vfp's tunnel he could be scum who is being bussed. i don't see why that would be the assumption anyone goes to rather than vfp being scum pushing a townie

.VFP is too "certain" - that's why it looks like a bus.

As I said earlier, I have to consider these possibilities.

this takes the cake as your most intelligent post this game so far

congrats

[osuka]

I am very keen on kyouko, Anya or Nero.

what's your order of preference between the three

[osuka]

just vote titus

???????????

[osuka]

i'd lim T3 here

???????????????

i don't understand the town reads he hasn't really done anything other than call people town as far as i remember

you and i both know t3 just doesn't do shit, ever, probably regardless of alignment

didn't he flip town twice in a row after doing that?

[osuka]

I am very keen on kyouko, Anya or Nero.

what's your order of preference between the three

what happened to the town read on me?

what prompted this question?

[osuka]

and they're deplorably devoid of signs of intelligence

rude and descredity

Just beating osuka to the punch :lol:

he's still better than you.

rude and descredity

good post

[osuka]

I am very keen on kyouko, Anya or Nero.

what's your order of preference between the three

what happened to the town read on me?

what prompted this question?

well, presumably you wouldn't be asking DGB the order unless you were considering moving there. And DGB is voting me so....

please use your brain, i know you have one

[osuka]

majority hammer in large games is really kind of ass

as opposed to?

[osuka]

I think we just go Titus.
Scum killing Nero show either a threat there or setting up Titus more. However, I don't think they target Nero as a protective PR, meaning that this wasn't a consideration when killing and most likely means Titus is lying.

VOTE: Titus

why would titus kill nero

[osuka]

i don't think nero is a kill titus would never make but i just want to see more from her today instead of jumping to a conclusion

i agree, im not saying nero is a kill titus never would make. i'm just saying it's also a kill that, if titus is town, scum still couldve made for that exact reason

[osuka]

hi folks sorry for the prod, i’ve had one hell of a day and i’ve been really busy all week

phone posting right now, gonna be back home soon and i’ll catch up for real

[osuka]

VFP is Town, like, 100% of the time.

can you explain?

[osuka]

VOTE: DGB
Okay let's flip this.

I might actually want to execute Titus first. There’s a good reason Nero seemed so intent on pushing there.

and that is? are you saying we should exec titus because nero said so?

[osuka]

VOTE: Kyo
From pushing the neighborhood to then sheeping kyo is strange for townya.

While I don't like T3, I don't disagree with a K wagon.

do you think kyo is town?

[osuka]

i mean dont get me wrong titus has her reads ass backwards for the most part from what i can tell, but i dont think that means shes scum

[osuka]

VOTE: osuka

VOTE: rathe

[osuka]

I'm extremely bad at reading in to the actual things people are posting so I just use my gut, especially in large games. Like I can usually say that pushes against me are not ai but people wh don't know my meta and trme are town.

this is the dumbest take on the thread even by your standards

why the fuck would tring you without "knowing your meta" make them town? who are these people anyway? this has zero value

[osuka]

okay can someone explain to me why everyones jumping on anya

[osuka]

sorry got distracted by the windows 10 leak

resuming catch up

[osuka]

VOTE: anya

I dont really need an answer, as I already have it.

anya!town doesnt say "they're trying to convince me now that they're a wolf and i should vote for them"

It comes off as knowing ssmb_kyko cant be a wolf. (trying to CONVINCE)

anya!town WOULD SAY "ssmb keeps saying they are a wolf."

this is a stretch and really it reeks of scum trying to justify jumping on a wagon

[osuka]

what scum fabricates ANNOUNCING VOYEUR, a role that is both completely shitty and verifiable such that they are likely to get called out on it if they are unable to prove it

if there was a planned claim it would not be that

(and keep in mind i think the role itself is basically NAI, but trying to use this as an argument for voting anya is terribad)

actually i can totally see scum anya pulling some shit exactly like that

[osuka]

VOTE: titus

that's a fucking scumclaim if i've seen one and fuck this game if we can't make this happen

What was a scum claim?

But I'm for a Titus lim here.
I think Titus has a lot more chance to flip scum than T3 at the very least.

VOTE: Titus

There seems to be enough thought as Titus scum here to at least warrant this as a wagon. If there's heavy resistance to even that stage, we can work out why.

youre voting for titus and you dont even know what the case is on her? hoo boy this is a one of a kind game isnt it

[osuka]

Ah actually, maybe osuka on a good day. Which is why I asked them to provide their thoughts. But they haven’t really tried to solve too hard and I’m somewhat skeptical there still.

im actually flattered <3

i need to put more effort into this game, admittedly. ive been extremely busy and havent had a lot of energy to put in the game so i'm sorry about that

[osuka]

Ah actually, maybe osuka on a good day. Which is why I asked them to provide their thoughts. But they haven’t really tried to solve too hard and I’m somewhat skeptical there still.

Osaka might be scum. They might have site flaked.

what the fuck is this, is my joindate two weeks ago? jesus

i'm offended

[osuka]

I just realized something. If I am correct on my theory, it makes town neighbors less likely. Permission to out my theory DotW?

making a note to myself and to you all that i havent read any further but i think i know exactly what this is

if it is what i think it is and it comes out, i'll point it out

[osuka]

A lot of my read of the situation with Anya and SSBM was the premise that I thought they were masons btw. If that's not the case then my "I trust Anya to read Kyo" comment kinda goes out the drain and I don't have much of an opinion on Kyo anymore.

Alright. Time out out the theory. DGB and DotW are masons.

that was quick

this is exactly it

[osuka]

i think i want to vote between anya and kyo today. i cant imagine why town would make a neighbor fakeclaim gambit on d1

[osuka]

Actually Anya wouldn’t have revealed the information as the Informed themselves - they’re most likely just a Goon if they’re Scum. But if the theory is correct, they might have been fishing for it.

where is this informed theory coming from?

Anya’s first post is them claiming to be a Mason all by themselves. Now, indulge me for a second. They could be a Traitor Neighbor that’s Informed about a Masonry, and is openly hinting at it in their first post, letting the Scum Team know to go look for them. Unfortunately I really do think DGB/DotW made themselves way obvious. But that’s a theory yeah?

first of all whatever it is you're on, i want to try some of it. there's like no way right

of course i say that but i did just play a game with 3x mafia doctors and a town gunsmith the other day so really who the fuck knows

[osuka]

looking at that list makes me actually feel like i'm probably out of sorts somewhere because otherwise things don't make much sense

osuka very probably just scum here though

why am i probably just scum

indulge me

[osuka]

gna be honest i think the flip-flop on dunn is way more likely to be town-ai for someone who isn't a complete noob, b/c i've had sequences like that as town but rarely as scum

okay THIS is a reach

i think that if anything it's scum indicative but you could make a point that it's nai and i would be forced to admit you may be right, but town ai? absolutely not

[osuka]

Nero probably is better at finding scum than I am so it's probably not a bad call for me to sheep him from the dead. I kinda want to throw Titus out the nearest window for Nero's legacy.

do you think nero's read wouldve stayed the same post flip?

[osuka]

nero is also kind of a hothead so he couldve actually just gotten tilted and deathtunneled titus

ive seen that sort of play before from nero

[osuka]

oh okay wait what the fuck i read the last several pages under the assumption that masons were in the game

if dotw confirms dgb but doesn't claim mason i suppose neighbors could still be a thing? if that's the case i don't think that holds any water for an anya or kyouko lynch so consider this post as me officially taking that back

[osuka]

Why isn't Anya happening today? That claim reeks of being coached and flubbed.

Anya's whole iso is 100% flub.

that's how it always is, you just gotta read into it

[osuka]

arguments that the neighbors must be scum if there are masons

I AGREE

but

Anya and Kyouko were objectively scummy.

Anya literally claimed mason, which made me jump off my chair.

And then Anya keeps shifting and obscuring the claim... and the results... no bueno and muy scummo.

i'm really not sure how to read anya. she's an extremely tricky read and i think that's on purpose

ive seen her scum and town play recently and honestly i couldn't tell a fucking difference. i wouldnt be surprised if she flipped green here if there arent any masons in the game

[osuka]

they see me as a platform to elevate themselves

who's they

[osuka]

I’m somewhat skeptical there still.

still u called them town

dumbest post over the course of the last 10 pages, he said "as town"

please fuck off with the misrep or, in the ever so unlikely event that this _isn't_ underhanded, learn to read

[osuka]

@Osuka Post Dunn flip? I don't see what would make it change. I like your point on vaxkiller and I'm fine throwing that slot out the window if we have to. I still think t3 is a good wagon and I want to say there though. Here are some of my thoughts on t3 summarized:

I don't like how T3 seems to be playing both "sides" of the game here, questioning the DotW + DGB + Titus town block claim but then voting with them on Anya is super weird. I also feel like his absence in light of the claim from Anya + wagon on him is weird, like he is hoping he can just pretend to have been gone and leave his vote there and conveniently avoid the wagon along with it. I know t3's playstyle is kinda like it has been this game, but I think trying to lurk through pressure is super scummy and made even worse by the fact that he is voting a slot that claims town power role and who I believe. If we could force t3 back into the game at least to lock him into a claim that would be great.

i can get behind a t3 lynch but i feel obligated to tell you that pressure seems to do absolutely nothing with that guy. every fucking time, he just keeps doing the same shit and it ends up being a policy exec. if you're fine with that you're fine with that, but if you're not then you should keep that in mind

[osuka]

I’m somewhat skeptical there still.

still u called them town

dumbest post over the course of the last 10 pages, he said "as town"

please fuck off with the misrep or, in the ever so unlikely event that this _isn't_ underhanded, learn to read

VOTE: osuka

very elaborate, thanks for the insight

how could you possibly explain your take on andres' post? let me elaborate

it's stupid because, if you're town, it makes zero sense. in that universe, you just have your head firmly lodged up your ass. if you're scum, which i think is more likely, and what that post makes you sound like, that was just an underhanded misrep to spin that post of "_as town_, osuka is accurate" into "osuka is accurate so he is town", which is actually not at all what he said

[osuka]

youre voting for titus and you dont even know what the case is on her? hoo boy this is a one of a kind game isnt it

I feel like this is the same scum Osuka that isn't reading the game as previously met.
I am happy to lim here today as well.

you don't understand his point about titus and yet you agree? how is that even possible? he's talking about titus going back on anya in 1971

i literally _skimmed_ the thread because i have a headache and my brain is mush but i have to provide an acceptable amount of input on this game, so yeah it was a bit of a half-assed catchup but that's what you're gonna get. 20 pages ago probably isn't even that relevant anyway and if you have any burning questions, i'm all yours

[osuka]

VOTE: Osuka

That was a very lazy 'catch up' from Osuka that adds nothing to the game.
The vote on Rathe is basically what Osuka does as scum and leaves a wasted vote sitting there doing nothing.

rathe is lockscum by the way. there's no way town plays like that

[osuka]

There is more than one way to get a no result pm in that situation.

How? Other than scum blocking?

If it was town they would have come forward!

ever heard of a rolestopper?

[osuka]

There is more than one way to get a no result pm in that situation.

How? Other than scum blocking?

If it was town they would have come forward!

I think there are so many possible explanations that since Anya claims 2-shot we should let her try to action again.

Can you name one that would not involve scum?

town rolestopper? town jailkeeper?

[osuka]

Anaya didnt claim ascetic. Are you saying that we have a town roleblocker/rolestopper that hasn't come forward?

If I role blocked Anya as town I wouldn't admit it because it would have been a trash visit.
If I rolestopped Peter I would be even more embarrassed than the above and kept it secret.

So it's plausible.

Like VFP said, I think it is possible. Also possible for there to have been a scum rolestopper that targeted peta.

if there's a babysitter, does it make sense for scum rolestopper to target peta?

[osuka]

scum rolestopper targeting peta in a game that's supposed to have a babysitter only makes sense if peta is scum

[osuka]

again i ask every one now . who would you take with you if given a choice?

rathe without a doubt

[osuka]

yes lim me and watch what happens evil smile.

are you claiming vengeful?

[osuka]

town vengeful combind vig babysiter. sounds awesome . its like given me a shotgun.

??????

that role pm is hard to imagine, let alone believe

[osuka]

Osuka is in this game, you don't need to worry about being hostile to me anyway

ouch

i have feelings you know

[osuka]

ok now before i hammer who should i target?

assuming youre not full of shit, rathe

[osuka]

ok night 1 patapan targeted osuka

?????

didnt you just claim combined vig babysitter? did i miss something? how could you possibly know this?

[osuka]

Did Peta babysit or did he Vig Osuka?

????????????????????

the guy is COMBINED babysitter vig

learn to read people

[osuka]

to clear up everything the claim is that of a combined babysitter vig, which i personally think is fucking insane and if it was nrg approved then they're definitely out to fuck with everyone's minds

that said the way that role _would_ work is it would work as a babysitter, because babysitter protects from the vig kill and from any other kills (other than that of a strongman) - UNLESS the target has a macho modifier, in which case they actually just die

[osuka]

If Osuka was untargetable for some reason, rolestop, ascetic, whatever... would Anya receive no result from Peta? Not sure how that resolves

are you having a stroke?

if i was untargetable, which i'm not, how the fuck could that have anything to do with anya receiving no result? what?

[osuka]

Now this is kind of crazy but if we want to we could mech-yeet Titus to make Cyrus into just a vengeful vigilante and leash his kills.

Let's not.

You don't want a vigilante? I want a vigilante.

i'd rather have a babysitter?

[osuka]

Is a babysitter automatically town-aligned?

I don't think so but the vengeful modifier would imply town.

the vengeful modifier could also have been pulled straight out of their ass

[osuka]

Oh vigilante can't be scum-aligned so that part would also have to be fake.

isn't an ungated town vig essentially the same as a mafia goon?

[osuka]

So if ssbm is honest, anya is lying...

If my calculations are right, someone is lying.

Please detail your calculations.

15 players, average 4 scum.
15 - 4 = 11
11 players telling the truth
3 players lying
1 player has no idea what's going on.

There are exactly 3 people lying.
This is where it gets tricky.

I'll group players to help though.

Group A
Me
Titus
DGB
Cyrus
T3

Group B
Dwlee
Anya
Vax
SSBM
Osuka

Group C
Raithe
Dragon
West
Chaos
Andre

There's exactly 1+ scum in A+B
There's exactly 1+ scum in B+C
There's exactly 1+ scum in A+C

If you assume that the top player and second player of each group has 10 posts, times the top and second, which gives 100. There were only 17 players to start though...

So the fact it hits 100 and not 63 makes me believe that there's organised lying happening.

And who is a player that appears in the A+B and B+C groups? SSBM.
Conclusion? SSBM is lying about something, but what?

what the fuck did you take

[osuka]

Why is there so much resistance to a osuka wagon is osuka is town and Anya is scum, Titus?

there was more resistance to an anya wagon than there is to the one on me, so i really dont know what youre on about

[osuka]

and i do feel conflicted about that because as i said i think anya is town but in truth, i dont think anything shes done here it outside her scum range. i'm willing to compromise on that slot

[osuka]

im also not sure how i feel about dwlee here. my instinct is that they can be town for now

thinking about it, i think id rather get rid of anya because theres way too much pointless talk about the neighbor claim dogshit and that'll be completely cleared out if she flips. as an added bonus, if she flips red and isn't a neighbor, that's a guilty on ssbm too

[osuka]

at this point in time with the wagon mounting on me i would start to address the major points but i really don't see any so that's really even more concerning than anything else. @the room: if i'm scum, do you seriously think i'm about to get bussed d2? is that within the realm of possibility? because i can't imagine a reason why that would happen in that universe

[osuka]

Also Osuka tell me who is scum cause honestly I'm just working from a PoE right now and your name stuck out cause I haven't seen you do anything.

here's the gamestate as i have it in my mind

i find cyrus' claim questionable but since there's no counterclaim, i'm inclined to believe it. on one hand, there was a claimed babysitter enabler (so babysitter is kind of an obvious claim) - but on the other, combined babysitter vig is an extremely specific claim to the point of being upright bizarre. there have been no counterclaims so i'm not willing to lynch this slot even though i do believe it might flip red

vax had weird progressions and misreps and i'm not a huge fan of that slot. not sure if there's quite enough here to say it's confscum but it's definitely on my radar

anya and ssbm have this weird equity where if either flips red, non-neighbor, i think we can say that's a guilty on the other. if either flips green OR neighbor, that's bogus. not sure if flipping either slot here is a good idea though because a neighborhood isn't alignment indicative of anything

titus can be town, as can dgb and vfp.

rathe flips red >90% of the time here for reasons ive already said several times

t3 is just weird and ive sort of given up on reading him.

i think i forgot a couple players but feel free to ask about anyone in particular

[osuka]

so ive been operating under the assumption that anya flipping non neighbor scum kind of means ssbm is red as well - and vice-versa - but what happens if either of them flip green, non neighbor? what the fuck happens then? is there a universe where a townie makes that gambit?

[osuka]

Oh alright, it looks like Dwlee is just a townie with a broken scumdar.

i think i can agree with this

i dont think dwlee is hardcore town here but i think it's blurry enough to the point where i dont think i wanna exec that slot today anymore

[osuka]

VOTE: anya

dw still hasn't engaged me on why he thinks my slot is scummy so either that's just a bad case of a short-circuit in the brain or he's trying to avoid that question for as long as possible until he can get me out of the game

[osuka]

I told you it's a poe and I don't know what to do except for that. I agree rathe is scummy but really a bunch of people agreed that they'd be fine with throwing you off a roof and I feel fine with it as well. I think SSBM and Anya are flipping green non-neighbor. Idk if you saw but Kyouko said there was no neighborhood.

right yeah i saw that, but why make the gambit in the first place? if both are town, they don’t know each other’s alignments. does that make any sense as a plan of action?

[osuka]

what sense does it make for a mason to claim neighbor and include a random slot in it?

[osuka]

First, she claimed mason.

???????