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[VFP]

What can I say, I'm starting to warm up to you.

Also, am I in a position to coast day 1 or no?

[VFP]

we could just lynch you if you didn't feel like playing

That's the spirit!

[VFP]

like, I don't really understand why you'd join a game with the intention to not play unless you landed scum and lurking/coasting helps your faction.

It was more of a joke at Osuka. He doesn't like me saying that.
If you gave me more than 8 minutes to read the game that would be useful.

But I have now.
And I still don't understand how Dwlee is the leading wagon.

Your post 74 I agree with but not so much seeing anything else that seems bad.

So someone explain to me like I'm 5 why Dwlee or Peter Pan are a good choice here?

[VFP]

So I'm not sure how I feel on Titus or T3 as of yet but neither are sprouting town for me.
Anya maybe, but there's by far not enough to go by yet.

[VFP]

DGB is probably town minded with the opening post.

I was in a game a while back where town claims just ended up getting DGB as a PR marked as the prime lim. So if its happened again recently I can see town DGB thinking this (given how it reacted in the game I was in too).
I'm not sure what scum DGB gains with that post.

[VFP]

DGB: theory
Dwelee: no
peta: anyone who denies the theory is scum x10000
people: vote

I don't read it that Dwlee is scum for denying DGB's theory.
Can you point to where I'm wrong?

[VFP]

nevermind that i was the first one to engage dwlee and call him scum, my point is way less baking up dgb and ore that the way dwlee chose to engage and turn things into a pedantic argument about how not to play where he could make an "ideal" theoretical point about how "we shouldn't play it like mountainous" that glosses over what dgb is actually trying to say (we should emphasize dayplay and minimize decisions based on mechanical speculation, basic stuff). in the process he steers the conversation toward something non-game-advancing, that is, arguing about "well of course you should consider claims in a normal setup". and when i immediately jump him after that he responds not like someone who has genuine conviction in what he's arguing but cornered scum who doesn't know how to react

This doesn't read like someone who's unhappy at Dwlee for not following DGB's plan. It seems to be more about how it was shut down and the reaction Dwlee given. I'm not saying I agree, but let's not read a story here.
Peta can explain some thought process into this and why Dwlee is scum here.

[VFP]

DGB: theory
Dwelee: no
peta: anyone who denies the theory is scum x10000
people: vote

I don't read it that Dwlee is scum for denying DGB's theory.
Can you point to where I'm wrong?

Dweleeis somehow scum for trying to wriggle out of a lim by fake claiming pr.

Maybe I'm just dumb here, but I still don't see it?

[VFP]

I'm not sure what scum DGB gains with that post.

well, most people are town reading DGB for it so a scum DGB could post that for town cred but the question is would scum make the risk of pushing an anti-town stance that no one in their right minds would agree with. eh, prob not. its p risky but I'm not of petas opinion where DGB would never ever in a million years post that as scum b/c I think scum absolutely could but I think occams says its prob just town that is frustrated.

Yeah I guess there is something to gain and this explains better than what I was saying and on a better track.

[VFP]

T3 is being sarcastic. Titus floated the idea that I was scum planning to use a claim to coast through the strong playerlist and that was why I was opposed to DGB's plan.

Ah okay, so that's irrelevant then as DGB's idea will never follow through in a large anyway.
Once people are under the light, things just change, and I doubt this being your worry.

So why is Peta scum for you?

[VFP]

nah, they aren't at all, but scum would try to say that

osuka's commentary on the post amounted to "this is stupid shit". differet phrasing, different manner of engaging with the post. most of his content isn't terribly AI so far though, question to me about thinking dgb wouldn't make that post as scum is maybe slightly +town, i replied to him questioning looking for further engagement

any more trivial false equivalency bullshit you want to throw at me?

I disagree with the thinking here.
Someone saying something is shit just ends the conversation of what is at hand. The follow up was is DGB scum for it so that's a new topic.
Dwlee saying that it's not beneficial leaves open discussion to why even if Dwlee is right or wrong.

This just seems to want avoiding more people to go against them.

Day 1 is a town lim more than scum since the information isn't there. What worry does Dwlee have to prevent no claims? Not that I believe for a second that players like Dwlee believe this idea ever goes through.

[VFP]

I don't think Rathe is super scummy or anything. My only slight issue is that they are so willing to sheep and absolve themselves of all blame. Also, and I know its a bit rude but if Rathe is set on sheeping there are better people to sheep than DGB.

At any rate, rathe is down my totem pole a bit and I feel like there are better lynches out there.

So Rathe played the same way in a newbie game recently.
Someone claimed Doc, 1 player was screaming liar, Rathe echoed the shouting player.

I originally thought scum for the exact same reason but they were town.

[VFP]

Peta claimed to have "important setup info" then walked it back to "mod meta." The push on me that he has made is also terribad and I feel like he has failed to engage with me in a way that town would (as in, he acts like he has the game solved and doesn't even want to consider he could be wrong).

Yeah I didn't like the information comment.
I don't see the actual mod meta, was there any?

[VFP]

ok dolphin you might be town continue doing flips and you should be good

VFP does a flip

[VFP]

Day 1 is a town lim more than scum since the information isn't there.

lynching scum is just not super easy and scum will like always claim a pr but I've won like my last 2 scum games when scum got flipped on d1.

But this is my point. If you and Dwlee are scum together you have enough experience to not find no claiming a threat. Although not always, town are in favour of a day 1 lim, just from numbers alone.
This is what Peta is expressing in the argument I think?

[VFP]

after my last game i believe this more than ever

Where does Dwlee come into this?

[VFP]

n i sheep until i have a better idea of whats happening

Why do you sheep DGB in particular over Peta or Nero?
Keeping in mind you're also voting with Peta.

[VFP]

And what's your understanding to DGB's scum read on Dwlee?

[VFP]

then i saw dwlee disagree n it seemed like mafia

What seemed scummy about it?
Is it what Peta said, gut, or different reasons?

[VFP]

then i saw dgb vote there n i agreed

What is DGB's scum read on Dwlee though?
If you're going.to sheep, you at least understand why DGB is scum reading there, right?

[VFP]

it rly didnt have anything to do with peta

What makes Peta town for you if its not the push on Dwlee?

[VFP]

It's not an RVS vote btw

there a reason that you aren't using your words to try to get DGB lynched?

Been trying to talk to Anya but she's just trolling me

don't turn this around on me if you others saw what you're writing down in there you'd be dead 3 weeks ago

If I'm to believe one it's SSBM here.
Both give a run down of whats said so far from either side.

[VFP]

yes that's about what i was getting at - bogging things down in some boring "correct" argument is how i'd expect scum to approach someone coming out with a wacky plan to start the day - it's an easy point to make and offers basically nothing. i hit him with my vote for it and didn't like the response.

nero of course is dead set on trying to misconstrue that i was arguing that no one should claim at all in accordance with dgb, which is not what i was trying to say and i don't think someone making an honest reading could get that (except T3, but he's a special case)

If anything it feels like your vote should be towards Nero more than Dwlee.
With the above it just seems more that players like Dwlee and T3 are mis understanding your view while Nero is using this to push agenda.

I don't think Nero is, and I don't think that this scum read is strong enough to have had Dwlee in the lead votes at this point.
How does Dwlee town react to DGB's plan?

Also, what is the mod information / meta you have?
Assuming this relates to the information you were talking about?

[VFP]

lol nero and dwlee are absolutely howling right now

@Petapan you seem like a competent player - I’m not seeing this. Perhaps Dwlee is Scum (they had an awkwardly phrased response on Page 1, and I don’t disagree with you that arguing against DGB there is easy), but I think you’re wrong on Nero (or are expressing too much confidence Nero is Scum, rather). I’ll keep reading, maybe I’ll change my mind, but I think you’re coming out a bit too hot.

Was it originally arguing as much as just stating a view?
Let's not pretend here that Dwlee went into this looking for conflict to the suggestion because that's not how it reads at all.

[VFP]

osuka is town.

I don’t trust that you can make this statement with any sort of reasonable degree of certainty this early. You’re not Scum again are you?

This is one of my concerns right now.
T3 not giving off that town scent yet

[VFP]

@VFP I actually think you’re Town here - talk to me about osuka.

I've only played with scum Osuka but there's some things he likes to do. Look busy and waste his vote.
But I'm probably not the best person to ask for a day1 read on Osuka. If he's scum he's probably more inclined to avoid a back and fourth argument with me.

[VFP]

if u ask me questions then u understand me better

Talking of which, I asked you some questions that I'm waiting on.

[VFP]

it was how it was reacted to it felt like it was dismissed or like he wanted to change the subject

So is this you scum reading Dwlee or following DGb?
Change the subject would mean that Dwlee started a new topic, and to dismiss it can be border line disagreeing.

it doesnt matter i have my own reasons for voting there

But that isn't sheeping, that's just scum reading someone and voting with a town read.
If DGB votes someone you're not scum reading, what action do you take?

after i voted I went back n read the other posts n peta seemed like town when i read his posts

Do you have examples of the town posts?
I too agree there is town potential there and would like to swap notes.

[VFP]

like this

for the record i have setup-related thoughts but they're not for sharing in the early game, will talk more about it later

Why is that town and does it matter that this was almost retracted?

[VFP]

i dont see mafia needing to say this or fake this who cares

Well, I care. I'm not going to leave someone as town just for 1 post for the game. How about my comment on scum Dwlee gains nothing from his response post?

So do you think DGB is wrong to vote there?
Because this is my issue. You were happy to vote Dwlee because of sheeping, and you implied its because DGB is town and can be trusted.
But now it's because of your scum read plus a town read also scum reading that slot?
What's your take on Dwlee now that the wagon has fizzled?

[VFP]

The problem is, if everyone crumbs, even faked ones then scum have plausible knowledge to who are legit.
If I crumb scum you as town and you're not, you know not to kill me.

[VFP]

But if we know that everyone is doing a crumb, scum will be looking for them. And if they are too discrete, then how will people find them even on a death?
I get what your going for but it doesn't work.

[VFP]

just cuz i believe dgb is town doesnt mean i am always going to agree

This is the impression that you set.

im sheeping this game n i think dgb is probably town

Your reason here is purely based on sheeping DGB, not because you share a scum read.

y would anything change

So Dwelee is still scum? More so than Osuka?

[VFP]

I like how VFP continues to light push me as scum but won't commit there.

You mis understand what I'm actually going for, and it's actually the opposit where I think you're more town.
My argument is where the reads involving you from Peta should be at if genuine, and that's where I think Peta's argument fails.

[VFP]

Be creative.

Say you're a jailkeeper. There are so many words associated with incarceration, just use one of them. The scum will be none the wiser.

I'm a jailkeeper.
Tonight I'm going to visit my cousin Billy. He has a cat called Anya and I will not let the cat outside tonight because its raining.

[VFP]

Titus, Kyoko is scum.

From what was said in the PT or from main game?

[VFP]

How about

"Anya, any updates about the cell mate in your PT?"

You flip jailkeeper, now I think SSBM was the target.
Also it's probably easy to miss (even more so for someone as oblivious as me) when it's not planned, but that would be so obvious as a JK/Cop style role.

[VFP]

Titus, Kyoko is scum.

From what was said in the PT or from main game?

Both

Well I don't know how many pinches of salt to take with Anya on the PT, so I'll want to see what SSBM has to add.
What's scummy in the game thread though?

[VFP]

btw

@nom

what does DW voting rathe mean?

As I see it he's more than happy to push another wagon instead of pursuing the 1v1, either out of genuine interest for pushing rathe or because he's trying to go away from that 1v1, which scum!dw would be happy to do in that position

Only if the general thought is S/T rather than X is scum.
I havent seen anyone saying that there has to be scum within rather than they are scum for doing something.

[VFP]

VOTE: Nom

I think T3 and Titus are also scummy here.

[VFP]

Not sure how I feel on Anya / SSBM but I expect Anya to piss around in the hood as town.

[VFP]

VOTE: Dunnstral

i like osuka for town

i like petapan for town

i like titus for town

i like nero cain for town

I guess Dragon can go into the scum pool as well.

[VFP]

i feel like you scumread me for doing the same things over and over again

You're a roller coaster to me!

[VFP]

Huh. ssbm is very scummy but I'm hesitant to lim him because of the neighborhood. Also Dragon of the West and osuka are townreads from reading the past few pages.

Why does being a neibour change anything?

[VFP]

Since when?

[VFP]

T3 probably town.

[VFP]

I think I like dw's slot a bit better for town after rereading as well
There are still many question marks in my head but I guess this was a worthwhile reread

This is still scum.
Couldn't benefit from the push so soft town now.

[VFP]

I'm calling your mind set fake in short.

[VFP]

Yeah, you really showed that you spent a good amount of time on re reading with "I like DW's slot a bit better for town".

After a read read of Dwlee, and a change of alignment stance, your only comment is this?

[VFP]

I can go in detail if that's what you want, I focused on what I thought was scummy on my reread
Besides, if you think that's scummy, there are a bunch of slots who've blanket called a bunch of people town and did the same kind of change, yet I am scummy for it despite having a very good reason to think that and these slots are not (like you think T3 is town), what is the difference and how is what I'm doing any fake?
I'm trying to solve, voting me because you expected more is a bit of a joke considering a lot of slots are not even providing a quarter of what I posted this game

Okay, sure I'll take a detailed read. The mindset to what was scummy before hand as well if you wanted, but I'm not going to demand something I wouldn't bother doing myself.
I'm not pretending to have re read T3. That she difference. I care about the path you took, not where you landed. Me and T3 are basically joined at the hip at this point anyway.

Your argument here is I shouldn't read it as scummy because others have done it? Or that I should read it as scummy but I should also read them as scummy?

I also at no point said I'm voting you because I expect more.

[VFP]

I don't know why you think that me not posting an entire novel about what I got from my reread must mean that I haven't done so or that I'm faking it or whatever

This is scum trying to manipulate what I said.
I find it hard to believe town read my post as this. Scum fabrication at it's finest.

[VFP]

I guess my super power kicked in then? Since I voted you before you said you wanted to re read.
I wouldn't care if you explained a short description in Wingdings... at least then you give something from pushing Dwlee, to soft town.
Remember though, you offered a detailed version, I only accepted.

You compare me practically not pushing T3 and deciding from a conversation directly to T3, to you voting, pushing and having Dwlee as scum. When you're voted up for it, you suddenly re read and just soft town. You were pushing Dwlee as scum, You changed from scum to town on the SAME posts Dwlee made. There's a huge difference.

[VFP]

I first thought DW could be scum because of how he handled his situation with peta and nero, got some tunnel vibes into peta + trying to pocket nero by asking him a bunch of questions since nero was/is the most adamant peta poster, I got that impression when he joined on Nero's weirdo logic to try and discredit me so I thought the slot was somewhat scummy and trying to strengthen his position in the game.
When rereading I saw that dw had some thoughts about other things in this game (some player movements, some reads, etc) so yeah, despite the insistence on going hard on peta there is content out there that points to town!dw. I thought a bit about the wider scope of this game and since this is a large where scum can easily cruise by (and I suspect that's what's happening) it's probably more likely that scums are trying to leverage the dw/peta situation (I believe peta is town too) and hide that way, which points to a bunch of different people, two of these people being T3 and std who have both voted there and whose isos, as I pointed out, are clearly fishy.
Does that answer your question?

Not really. That wasn't really detailed but more so posting words together.
There's nothing in this other than you tunneled, you re read and saw you were wrong, scum is T3 / STD.
You also focused more on the scum read than the town read, when originally you implied a town read was the part to explain. Thus still makes your town read plus this reasoning to be fake.

[VFP]

Also since you mention this I'm actually curious, you said that you changed your thought on T3 from scum to town by discussing with him but I don't understand how that little interaction with you and him over mechtalk, care to explain

If scum in the hood I don't believe T3 ever questions the hood as S/S or T/T only, that's not how T3 plays.
If there's no scum in the hood I don't think T3 ever pushes it as T/T even if believed there.
The fact that T3 has only seen same alignment hoods means the thought was genuine.

If I'm ever flipped, you can just accept my read here as I feel I'm pretty good at reading T3.

[VFP]

Maybe Rathe and Nom scum theatre to distance here?

[VFP]

Weekend stuff
I'll post later

[VFP]

The Nero wagon is terrible. Mainly from who's on it alone.
Each one on the wagon give a 1 liner why for my tiny brain why.

[VFP]

Peta, I'm convinced that if I told you my favorite Wawa smoothie you'd think it was scum-indicative.

What is it?

[VFP]

Peta, I'm convinced that if I told you my favorite Wawa smoothie you'd think it was scum-indicative.

What is it?

Caramel Cream.

Nice!

[VFP]

The Nero wagon is terrible. Mainly from who's on it alone.
Each one on the wagon give a 1 liner why for my tiny brain why.

Evaluating wagons based on who is on them is a losing strategy on Day 1.

Nero's iso is nothing but misreps and opportunistic manipulation. He is not scum hunting, he is trolling the town.

Only if its my only go to all game.
There's enough players I don't rate as town on the wagon of someone I do think is town.
There's going to be strong arguments to show me the way though, I'm sure of it.

[VFP]

The Nero wagon is terrible. Mainly from who's on it alone.
Each one on the wagon give a 1 liner why for my tiny brain why.

I like to think my reasons are pretty obvious and I think his ISO being full of misrep more than actual scumhunting speaks for itself
Also not liking a wagon because of who is voting there on DAY 1 is just ???
Nero is just scummy in a vacuum no matter who votes there, I don't know what it is with some people insisting on doing weird associations on day 1 without any kind of flip

This is still scum trying to echo from DGB.
Why is it ???.
Nero is town regardless who votes on there. There, I countered you're argument

[VFP]

Great another post accusing me of being a drone having no sentience of my own
How is nero town?

What do you expect when you say the same as DGB a couple of post after?
I've played with scum Nero and been burnt enough times, this doesn't fit scum Nero.
When I was questioning Peta in an obvious way that I wasn't siding with Peta, Nero thinks I'm pushing him as scum. Town Nero would care about that, scum Nero won't draw attention here imo.
Unless Dwlee is scum with Nero, which I doubt very strongly otherwise they would be a lot more organised, then defending Dwlee to the point of because the focus against Peta, rather than being in the background throwing mud, makes no sense either.

[VFP]

What do you expect when you say the same as DGB a couple of post after?

are you kidding me
My posts was literally 2 minutes after hers, I was typing my message up as she was posting hers and it came in the pedit
we don't even say the same thing
Frankly on top of that being stupid logic, I find it greatly insulting

Yes, I too get insulted when I'm accused of lying or being manipulative in a game of manipulation.
Should I town read posts like these?

You're also going away from my main point of Nero being town.
But I understand that it's hard to create further fake reasons to get me on side.

There is nothing about town from what you are doing, and I'll tell you now, AtE is NAI to me so we can stop act here since we both know there's nothing to be insulted over here.

[VFP]

V/LA / lurking aside I don't see this as town Titus.

[VFP]

also your logic about nero is faulty because for a good portion of the game people were townreading him
when scums get townread they allow themselves to do things they wouldn't otherwise do, like taking grand stances about things and doing scummy things like misrepping posts which is the vast majority of his ISO
are you going to ignore the entirety of his interactions because you liked one of them?

My logic is from before, during, and after town reading.
Also, I'm not sure many players have been vocal on Nero being town rather than just Nero not being scum.
Nero hasn't changed during the game, so my question is, why now is this scum Nero rather than the start of the day?

You can explain to me why I'm wrong if you like, I am a reasonable player and I'll consider what's provided. I just don't feel you have anything you genuinely believe here.
Point out these parts that I'm ignoring and I'll give my opinion.

[VFP]

854
You have favored one interaction (Nero siding with DW) over all his interactions this game, and the other interactions are scummy and people have pointed them out.
You're laser focusing on something very small compared to the wider picture of his ISO.

Can you point to me what I'm exactly looking at with 854?
I'm pretty stupid here so I'll need you to explain slowly to what I'm missing.

[VFP]

855
one post after

Where's the mis rep?

[VFP]

I read it as Nero nit picking and looking for reasons not mis rep?

[VFP]

You asked me what's changed, so I provided the post where I changed my opinion and the reasoning for it. The misrep was going on much before, but in itself is not scum indicative.
What's scum indicative is doing a whole bunch of misrep to discredit posters then doing this with your vote.
pedit: "nitpicking wording" would be a valid way to put it, the misrep element is when you nitpick wording and putting words and intents that are not there instead of what I said back then

Oh, it was more of a rhetorical question that part. Basically, Nero is being pushed for something that I'd expect to be pushed for earlier if genuine town. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that everyone is just scummy voting Nero, or that all of scum are... But it seems that this wagon has built quite easily now and no doubt there's scum influence with it.

Can you clarify the mis rep parts for me though. Again I'm pretty dumb so I need a lot of patience here.

Nitpicking is different to mis rep though. Let me explain.
Nit picking would be along the lines of "you said we not me!"
Mis rep would be me saying you claimed we, rather than me. When in fact you didn't.

[VFP]

Maybe players are "echoing" each other because their arguments are more convincing than trolling scum.

I'm not convinced, but I'm also open to listen to you as well here.

[VFP]

Damn we even nitpicking word meaning now
But on a more serious note, if you think there's scum influence on this wagon, then where is it? Why do you think there must be scum on this wagon?

I'm not fully satisfied where yet. Maybe Titus.
I don't think it's DGB though even if the vote was terrible.

Because this is a poor wagon if only town influenced for reasons that can't even be provided to me.

So to clarify, Nero isn't scum for mis repping anything?

[VFP]

If you want a clear example of misrep you can look at Nero's whole debacle at my entry post where I wanted to push rathe and said that I saw multiple people wanting to vote there as well and saying that I also wanted to see if these people would push, into a whole argument about me somehow manipulating the entire game into not voting peta and pushing dw as scum

Again, I'm pretty stupid, can you hold my hand and point me to where?
If I agree with the mis rep, I'll vote with you. Just to give you motivation here.

What I re call from the argument.
You tell Dwlee to vote Raithe
Dwlee does
You are pleased or along those lines
You say Dwlee is dipping
Nero says that's naughty

This is purely what I recall when I read it last week, so I may be mis repping at times.

[VFP]

ewww don't call my honey

Marmalade

[VFP]

So just as I expected, you have nothing.

[VFP]

You can play it off as you like but I just gave you about 5 opportunities to back up your Nero scum case that you are pushing as available. You have not backed it up.

When I have you backed into a corner you just go with "This is scummy".

Everyone else, remind me why Nom is only on 1 vote?

[VFP]

You've literally offered to not only change your vote to nero which you think is town, but also vote WITH ME, a player you scumread, on a wagon you said you think has scum influence.
This is some hard openwolfing trip you have here my dude, not even mentioning the fact that examples are being provided to you from multiple slots lol

Exactly.
If you have something to prove me wrong here. Which you don't.
Show me where 1 example has been provided since I requested it.

Also, if you want to try this, I am always willing to hard lock 1 scum in us if you are?
If I have open wolfed according to you, can we agree there is 100% scum in between me and you here?

[VFP]

I think there's evidence here that I am scum or Nom is.
If Nom flips town I'm claiming scum. We can vote either of us first.

[VFP]

Look at this entire conversation with me and Nom.
Nom just wants to play our conversation off as a joke earlier on and looks for anyway to get out of giving me the information that Nom says exists.

[VFP]

Well actually I said if I agree with the mis rep.

[VFP]

So Nom, don't avoid.it.
Should be do an unofficial gladiator dual here?

Is there scum in us as much as you are claiming?

[VFP]

Well basically, we are both claiming town.
On a town flip the other claims scum no questions asked.

Let's go for it.

I'm telling you all either I'm scum here flustered and you cam lim me or I'm town and I'm 100% certain so Nom is scum.

[VFP]

I only go for this as scum or 100% certain that's shown enough in my games.

[VFP]

That's the sprit.
More on either me or Nom. The lim should always be in us here.

[VFP]

Great stuff, keep that up!

[VFP]

Nero vote in me or Nom.

Scum are going to want to avoid flipping either of us today so don't lead by example and give them reason to not vote us.

[VFP]

I agree that Titus is probably scum but we can lim there after this scum slot is resolved.
Scum Titus will become more obvious each day.

[VFP]

Look at how Nom went from being vocal to this.
I'm scum to Nom, they should be shouting for votes on me.

[VFP]

Where did you go Nom?
Pretty convenient time to not be stuck responses!

[VFP]

SSBM, vote in me and Nom. I don't care which one just go for it.

[VFP]

I'm happy to end the day. But it's me or Nom.
I'm sure Nom is just waiting a while now to say they were busy.... but that's just convenient, don't buy it.
Plus I see the post thread view count going up so someone keeps checking in without posting.

[VFP]

That's fair enough them.

Still a convenient time for Nom to go quiet regardless.
I look forward to their 'return' though.

[VFP]

@vfp most but anyone can chime in

noms posting is bad and its not hard to envision a scum flip but is it not at all possible that nom feels a little bit ostracized and scum like Titus, Andre and DGB are just using him?

Originally I thought possibly the case when I spoke with them before the weekend. The response they gave me about my T3 read I was trying to work out if town understanding or scum not wanting to argue it.
But today I'm certain they are scum.
When I corrected them on nit picking/ mis rep they tried to play it off as a joke. This shows that they were nervous at this point while I was digging in. If they were town there's nothing to be nervous with at all with how I approached it. I showed willingness to listen.
When Nom realises that I'm not going to let go here they then try to turn it around onto me.
As soon as I start saying there's scum in between us they side step even more and act confused before dipping. Scum Nom doesn't want us to be in a 1v1, while town Nom does. This reaction is from a scum Nom only.

Not to mention they straight up lied and couldn't give anything to back up their views. Which would be fine but they keep saying that everyone is posting them, and I just want to see where.

This is nothing that Titus or DGB has caused Nom to do in thread from this point.

This entire conversation Nom is basically saying that the sky is green, and then pointing to a bird asking us to name it.
It's clear scum distraction tactics.

[VFP]

you know at this point I just want to reveal the masquerade for what it is
VOTE: nom

I'm so proud of you here!
Scum self vote before a hammer, town self hammer.

[VFP]

Sure thing pal
you guys work this out tomorrow I'm sure you'll have plenty of fun

Even this isn't town minded.
I already said I'll claim scum on a town flip with you. Town you would be happy with being a sacrifice to get scum me.

[VFP]

honestly, I'm just kinda sick of the day phase at this point. I'd be willing to vote any of

Dragon of the West
Rathe
Andresvmb
nomnomnom
DrippingGoofball
Titus
petapan




kinda just want to lynch the Derek12 so this game doesn't stall out b/c no one will replace in

Nom's still scum here.
There's no argument to try and push me as scum here.... you know why? Because its not genuine.

[VFP]

Now you get it
Have fun explaining this tomorrow!

I'd like to say easiest day 1 scum lim, but it's not the easiest.

[VFP]

I'm never doing a 180.
But I too like to play the fear card when scum.

You need to do better than that.

[VFP]

I just wanna see

Dolphin

and all the slots who are going to do a 180

Lol, okay.

[VFP]

Nom, your angry scum zipper is down!

[VFP]

Good luck!
I'm sure you can AtE later as a last resort.

[VFP]

E-3. Let's go!

[VFP]

Sigh

Nom is town.

Then vote me.
Only scum are going to want to be voting outside of us.

Plus, it just tells us more when Nom flips scum.

[VFP]

Very high chance I'm bussing.
Scum flip Nom you can push me tomorrow.

[VFP]

Is nom town or is VFP bussing?

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

I'm townreading nom, but VFP's behavior is classic bus'ing, VFP is so sure nom will flip scum and he will bask in towncred, it gives me pause.

I really don't care to claim scum bussing here if it gets you to vote Nom.
Stop trying to dodge and vote one of us.

My focus isn't on people voting me tomorrow but avoiding voting in me and Nom.

[VFP]

Come on Peta, make a stand!

[VFP]

Nom sounds like town frustration.

No, Nom sounds like scum giving up.

[VFP]

There's also a bunch of half-naked and naked nom votes, easy for scum to hide behind VFP's tunnel/fake-gladiate if he's town.

Lots of possible scenarios.

To clarify, my gladiator post is an unofficial, not to be mixed up with mod confirmed gladiator.
However, there's scum in me or Nom.... maybe even both.

Plenty to work with.

[VFP]

Self voting means nothing.
It's about the self hammering if you're really frustrated.

I'm sure once at E1 we will see some sort of "I'm not going to give up!" With a vote on me.

[VFP]

And there we go, scum giving up.

[VFP]

Yes, I too believe that I'm playing you off as town here.

[VFP]

Nom is scum giving up, but I agree with them, let's get it done.

[VFP]

Come on Peta, make a stand!

my stand is i don't think either of you are scum sorry dude

Well one of us is scum.

[VFP]

Come on Peta, make a stand!

my stand is i don't think either of you are scum sorry dude

Well one of us is scum.

why, because you got into an argument?

Exactly that!
Now pick a vote.

[VFP]

I can take it.

[VFP]

Other than high reward on the town credit.

[VFP]

Dragon just vote one of us and move on.
This is happening so get on with it.

[VFP]

Just delaying what's going to happen.

[VFP]

Just delaying what's going to happen.

good

Listen I know you said you don't like mine and Nom's plan here but just go with it.
I don't think you've mentioned me or Nom this game actually.

[VFP]

Dragon just vote one of us and move on.

i’ll do better

dayvig:

vfp

If this is real then that's fine with me.
Nom is to be tomorrow's lim all the time.

Then Titus should always be pushed the day after.

T3 is always town and Nero / Dwlee are town.

Peta plausible town.
DGB I'm not undecided.
Scum probably in the hood.

The rest are pretty irrelevant to me.

[VFP]

In fact if real Raithe is most likely town.
Dragon to be in the scum pool.

[VFP]

From the hood I like Anya as town.
Plausible both town, I don't think a lim there any time soon is needed as it's never S/S.

[VFP]

So I'd probably go with

Nom
Titus
Dragon
DGB

With 1 being wrong.
Dunn and Osuka probably not scum.

Leaving Andre / West / Derek / Hood?

[VFP]

In fact if real Raithe is most likely town.
Dragon to be in the scum pool.

you know i'm not scum just because i don't want to play your game come on now

Why not? Scum don't want to vote in me and Nom today because it gives up too much information.

[VFP]

In fact if real Raithe is most likely town.

I'm p sure it's fake b/c I don't think mafia vigs are a thing in normals.

could theoretically be a day sk but I don't think I've ever seen 1

Most likely fake but in the case of real I'm just laying out my reads.

[VFP]

and what's the town motivation for not voting between you two

There isn't any from you.

[VFP]

As a town mind set, working out the scum in either me or Nom other than leaving this to go on for every following day is the benefit.
There's no benefit to you ignoring this as town and leaving the game to spiral into the same direction tomorrow.

So no, I'm not wrong.

[VFP]

what if i believe there is no scum between you two

Then town you wants to progress the game anyway and lim us.
Do you think tomorrow if Nom isn't the lim I'm going to go "Okay, let's.move on!"
Or do you think I'm going to sit there pushing the same?

[VFP]

Thats fine, on a Nom scum flip (or me) you'll be one of the players to have to answer for it.

[VFP]

I don't believe that anyone looks at Nom's posting tonight and believes that there's no shift on tone and style of posting.
The only response they have is "LOL" because it's scum giving up.

[VFP]

fuck this sucks
UNVOTE:
let me time to chill out, I'll reread tomorrow after a good night of sleep, need to regain some composure and give everything a thorough reread

Oh look there's the unvote.
Like I said, it was fake.

Get this scum out of here.

[VFP]

Nom - VFP has to be scum
Also Nom - I think there's scum on my wagon just because it was quick

Get this outta here!
Day 1 scum goes loverly with a bit of toast in the morning!

[VFP]

nom, this is a game based around lying where one faction doesn't always say what they mean. Maybe I'm being overzealous and paranoid but what you are calling misrep and manipulative behavior I call scumhunting.

I'll get up my Titus stuff later

Let's be very clear here, Nom is 100% lying and trying to weasel out of it.
Nom is 100% caught scum so they are trying to now back track on the argument that you were mis repping and instead they now mis understand the term?
Still they have no posted to where either.... The only thing that they pointed to was saying that you are nit picking, which the follow up response shows that this was not the original argument.
Meaning that they are LYING

[VFP]

Do you notice that they unvote rather than vote scum me?
Thats because scum do not want flips within me and Nom here, Nom included.

Even the "self vote" was a shitty attempt at AtE like I called. Nom agreed that they should be okay with the lim on them to find me as scum, and suddenly unvotes and not even votes me?
This shows that the self vote and posting was just fake yesterday.

Osuka, where you at?
Too many players are trying to dodge this behaviour from Nom. Get to voting there!
Or even me. I really don't give a shit other than voting outside of us.

SCUM. DO. NOT. WANT. THIS. DUAL!
Scum are not voting in us.

Look at who's voting, and who's dodging. It says a lot.

[VFP]

Can't sleep, too much coffee I guess
@vfp I assume you're an alt? on the offchance you don't care about revealing your main username I'd very much like to read your previous games

I'm not actually hiding my main and have said in a few games so I guess it's a don't ask don't tell. It's Vedith.
I haven't played on there for years though, and this is my only other account I use.

I also know that you have no intent to read any games either. Because you're just scum.

[VFP]

VOTE: VFP

That's the spirit, seal your fate.

[VFP]

If you want where I'm 100% correct on scum day 1.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=86564

This is no different and you share some style reactions to Meuh there.
You play it off as a joke
You try to make it look like a personal attack from me
You're argument goes to me scum because of the push

Nom is scum here.

[VFP]

I also know that you have no intent to read any games either. Because you're just scum.

I just did though
You can drop the theatrics lol
I'll read the vedith games when i wake up later
just for my own curiosity, do you feel your playstyle has changed in any serious capacity during that timeframe? you came off as very forceful town and scum who's willing to gambit and strongarm town, should I expect the same when reading the other games?
pedit:
thanks but I don't read games to know where you got scum and where you didn't, I'm glad you're proud of yourself though, want a gold star sticker?

My point was its the same mindset there as here. But again you de rail what I. Saying to suit your own agenda.
You're caught scum and I don't care how we go around it.

And my play style from 3 years ago? No idea?

[VFP]

So we have this.

Nom claiming to read my games
Pulls up my last scum game (where if actually read knows my main) and says maybe this us forceful 1v1.
I show proof that I do this as town with an argument that matches here
Nom mis reps what I'm saying and plays it off as bragging.

Nice iron knee you have there.

[VFP]

You haven't read the one you're posting no.
At no point do I believe you read any.

Is this the best you can go with?

[VFP]

So let's see if Nom ticks the scum boxes

Lies about scum read _/
Dodges giving proof to reason _/
Tries to distract with jokes _/
Self votes then unvotes _/
Fake AtE _/
Mis reps _/
Dips when the heat is on _/
Trying to avoid this 1v1 _/
Caught lying about reading a game _/

Probably not enough here as guilty scum?

[VFP]

If I didn't read them tell me how I was able to post a very specific post from one of them, sherlock

You went from top to bottom looking for a scum game
Rushed through and looked for a post without reading.

There's nothing specific at all.

[VFP]

It's okay to admit you're wrong you know?

Wait, am I scum or wrong?

[VFP]

Nom keeps slipping with the mind set that I'm town.
Even trying to sneak in town situations to try and get out of this.

[VFP]

But that's just not true, I said what happened in some of your towngames as well and I said your forceful nature in this game resembled some of the posts you made elsewhere, you even typed in all caps with points in that game I'm referring to JUST. LIKE. THAT. Over a minor argument nonetheless.
You're also much more calm in dead PTs/Mafia PTs (even congratulated scum when they lost in their own thread).
Feel free to link me games if you don't believe I read them, I'll read 'em tomorrow
pedit: I'm trying to determine that by reading your meta
but insisting on facts that are just wrong is just being wrong

Yeah but you know I'm town and I've given enough impression to say I do this as town. There's no backing so stop pretending like you have said anything additional to how I play.

These details you are giving now is once again a panic to look for things as I called you out.
I can go onto any players ISO here post 3 irrelevant unique things and go, look I read all your games! In a span of 5minutes each person.
And if you are saying I did that on this account I think its a lie as I don't recall posting in a mafia forum as town at end game or whatever you are trying to say here?

[VFP]

Nom keeps slipping with the mind set that I'm town.
Even trying to sneak in town situations to try and get out of this.

[VFP]

No one is asking you to so it's irrelevant.

[VFP]

ChaosOmega

1 thing to know is me or Nom (or both) are scum.
Just read our ISOs and pick 1.

Everyone else is for after this is resolved.

[VFP]

Yes, just yes.

[VFP]

So have I not learned anything or am I scum?

[VFP]

Another slip of me being town to you.

[VFP]

And there's the AtE I predicted.

[VFP]

Nom is responding as I'm town, not scum.
Nom is scum that keeps slipping up.

[VFP]

Fair enough, I'll lurk the day out.
You all know my thoughts.

[VFP]

VOTE: DGB

[VFP]

VOTE: t3

What a wasted vote...

[VFP]

I think we just go Titus.
Scum killing Nero show either a threat there or setting up Titus more. However, I don't think they target Nero as a protective PR, meaning that this wasn't a consideration when killing and most likely means Titus is lying.

VOTE: Titus

[VFP]

Lying about what?

I am a babysitter enabler

The kill suggests that this isn't true.

[VFP]

How do you feel about nom's slot now?

I'm not touching it.
If it was a tactical replace out I'm reporting it.

[VFP]

Are you suggesting that if someone dies there can't be a babysitter?

Not at all.
I already explained this. The kill suggests that scum wasn't in the mindset of looking for a babysitter.

[VFP]

A babysitter can either be used to protect or kill.

This is my point though.

[VFP]

However, I don't think they target Nero as a protective PR, meaning that this wasn't a consideration when killing and most likely means Titus is lying

Can you explain what you're saying like I'm an idiot?

You think Titus is lying about being a babysitter enabler because he's scum, meaning the scum team knows he's lying, and therefore don't hunt for a protective role with their kill? If I have that thought process right, what about Nero's slot makes you think scum wouldn't kill there looking for a protective role?

Alternate scenario: what if Titus is town so scum believe his role claim and then kill someone that they think wouldn't protect any of the mafia since that would mean risking a scum death

I'm talking more about the scum risk of Nero being protected.
Nero was one of the top vocal voices day 1. Regardless he was a good babysit action to target, or at least in the pool.
Scum killing Nero means that they didn't take this into consideration.

Nero pushing Titus also shows that he wasn't a babysitter.
If Titus is telling the truth and there is 1+ babysitters then why are scum not looking for 2 kills over 1?
Unless of course, they are worried that the babysitter would protect them.

[VFP]

Don't really want to suggest that Titus went v/la just b/c she is scum as she's prob busy IRL and that has nothing to do with her scum pm here but going v/la for the rest of the day phase and not unvoting seems kinda ass.

Actually quite the opposite.

[VFP]

Bolded the part that proves my point.

What does it prove?
This isn't about being tactical, this is saying that scum you did consider unvoting with the assumption you wouldn't be here to post.
You're making a strange narrowing here, and to say that this is all Nero did is even stranger.

Also, these T3 votes are trash.

[VFP]

shut up idiot

I mean, it doesn't change the fact that it's trash, however offended you get.

[VFP]

why would titus kill nero

Well as a single view point, because Nero had them as scum.
Also, just because Nero was obviously not a babysitter, doesn't mean he wasn't an investigative role. Meaning Titus is the check every time.

But the actually question is, why does the scum team kill Nero here?
I think people try to focus too much on 1 member of the scum as if other opinions do not matter in the scum thread.

Titus being V/LA and busy could impact their participation in who to kill, so I'm not going to hold the above against Titus directly.

[VFP]

VOTE: Titus
I think mod missed my vote or I don't have 1.

[VFP]

The argument is basically scum T3 for being T3 at this point.

[VFP]

great no one cares go back in your hole

Well someone still has a fragile ego...

[VFP]

I think I'm also ready for another green flip. Let's do it.
VOTE: Anya

[VFP]

How can I quick hammer E2?

[VFP]

Yes, I think Anya is town.
I even said it when I voted.

[VFP]

Probably

[VFP]

Okay.
I was trying to type T3 and auto correct got me.

[VFP]

I think you hurt his feelings, Vax.
He was never told no growing up.

[VFP]

Doesn't it tell Anya what was done? Not Peter.

Pedit so claiming blocked of some sort.

[VFP]

Did you mention it in the hood, Anya?

[VFP]

I think that's wrong again lol

@VC

[VFP]

No

[VFP]

UNVOTE: Anya

[VFP]

VOTE: titus

that's a fucking scumclaim if i've seen one and fuck this game if we can't make this happen

What was a scum claim?

But I'm for a Titus lim here.
I think Titus has a lot more chance to flip scum than T3 at the very least.

VOTE: Titus

There seems to be enough thought as Titus scum here to at least warrant this as a wagon. If there's heavy resistance to even that stage, we can work out why.

[VFP]

Plausible Andre saw the post from T3 to me that has the words of you being scum... Of course, context of that post isn't T3 saying you're scum.
Scum Andre maybe just quickly searching for a T3 read and not actually reading?

[VFP]

DGB: theory
Dwelee: no
peta: anyone who denies the theory is scum x10000
people: vote

I don't read it that Dwlee is scum for denying DGB's theory.
Can you point to where I'm wrong?

Dweleeis somehow scum for trying to wriggle out of a lim by fake claiming pr.

[VFP]

I believe Anya's claim more than Titus's claim.
I cant remember if this game or not, but I think it was. There was mention about neibours having powers day 1.

[VFP]

I just recently finished a game with masons and 2 town neibours.

But you know where I'm most likely going from here. Full town neibours is potential for masons. Now, masons + Mason Jr's with a power(s)?
Add in a babysitter+. Yeah that doesn't match up and seems overwhelmingly strong for town.

If there are Masons, then there's scum within Titus, Anya, and SSBM.
I doubt Anya is traitor but I'd favour scum in the hood.

Either Anya lying about the power
Or SSBM has a scum power and Anya was blocked with the assumption of a power in the hood.

I'm just trying to work out now of it favours to solve Titus or sold in the hood.
We can confirm if there's actually a hood for a start, encase it's a cover for a PT cop.

We can also determine if scum had thought to block Anya.
I think SSBM, scum flip as Neibour means Anya town.
But I need to give this more thought. Considering if there aren't masons, we're just back to the same mindset as before.

[VFP]

youre voting for titus and you dont even know what the case is on her? hoo boy this is a one of a kind game isnt it

I feel like this is the same scum Osuka that isn't reading the game as previously met.
I am happy to lim here today as well.

[VFP]

VOTE: Osuka

That was a very lazy 'catch up' from Osuka that adds nothing to the game.
The vote on Rathe is basically what Osuka does as scum and leaves a wasted vote sitting there doing nothing.

[VFP]

youre voting for titus and you dont even know what the case is on her? hoo boy this is a one of a kind game isnt it

I feel like this is the same scum Osuka that isn't reading the game as previously met.
I am happy to lim here today as well.

you don't understand his point about titus and yet you agree? how is that even possible? he's talking about titus going back on anya in 1971

i literally _skimmed_ the thread because i have a headache and my brain is mush but i have to provide an acceptable amount of input on this game, so yeah it was a bit of a half-assed catchup but that's what you're gonna get. 20 pages ago probably isn't even that relevant anyway and if you have any burning questions, i'm all yours

I have my own reasons to scum read Titus.
I have been voting Titus most of the day, and the only thing I agree with is Titus being scum from Peter. The scum claim part Peter said was irrelevant because it wasn't.

You were in the game with a town hood, masons and a town doctor.
If the masons are real, what's your view on this game compared to that game role wise?

[VFP]

Is it really E1?
If it is I'll hammer.

If not, Osuka.

[VFP]

I think SSBM would be a better flip.
If scum have knowledge of Anya having a power, it's because SSBM is scum with a power.

If its S/S in the hood then Peter/Cyrus is scum with then.

[VFP]

For Anya town it surely just has to be a roleblocker or rolestopper.
Can't have scum fuckery like bus driver and shit.

[VFP]

vfp i am reading by iso , i have read neo and i have read nomnomnom. . nom seems scummy right now with their post. but i will see why when i do every one else as for you. vfp you just became number 3 if i think you are scummyer then nom you get my vote.

Oh no!

[VFP]

For the record I'll probably hammer anyone at this point.
So consider E2 as E1.

[VFP]

Let's hope no one is put to E1 by then.

[VFP]

Peter didn't claim Ascetic.
If its that, he's not town.

[VFP]

You just make me want to only post comments like that

[VFP]

Anaya didnt claim ascetic. Are you saying that we have a town roleblocker/rolestopper that hasn't come forward?

If I role blocked Anya as town I wouldn't admit it because it would have been a trash visit.
If I rolestopped Peter I would be even more embarrassed than the above and kept it secret.

So it's plausible.

[VFP]

petapan didnt claim ascetic that is.

cyrus are you ascetic?

laughs no not at all

. but tell me if given a choice when you die who would you take with you?

I don't get sarcasm too well.
Is this is?

[VFP]

Anaya didnt claim ascetic. Are you saying that we have a town roleblocker/rolestopper that hasn't come forward?

If I role blocked Anya as town I wouldn't admit it because it would have been a trash visit.
If I rolestopped Peter I would be even more embarrassed than the above and kept it secret.

So it's plausible.

Like VFP said, I think it is possible. Also possible for there to have been a scum rolestopper that targeted peta.

Could have targeted town Peter as well (not sure if you mean S/S).
If Peter/Cyrus is town they were a a middle option for investigation targets.

[VFP]

petapan didnt claim ascetic that is.

cyrus are you ascetic?

laughs no not at all

. but tell me if given a choice when you die who would you take with you?

I don't get sarcasm too well.
Is this is?

i was laughing cuse i dont have that role. misrep me . thats bad 2 scum points for you.

Great, I want all of the scum points because frankly your opinion is already proven as not worth listening to for me.

[VFP]

Possible. Not plausible.

I think its plausible.
I think that SSBM being a scum PR is more plausible though.