Townstumps Mafia (Endgame)

[NorwegianboyEE]

But i can be much more funny.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Choose smart, vote for a Norwegianboy today. You won't regret your decision.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And if it's not me i will vote for Not_Mafia as our stump.

Hopefully that will threaten everyone into voting for me.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Please i've been quarantined and i've got nothing to do except play mafia. :v

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: TREESTUMP: Not_Mafia

Btw is it actually valid to vote for yourself?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I have a weird sexual fetish about treestumping in mafia games. Indulge me.

Ew.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Apparently the stump needs to come up with town power roles too? Should we discuss that now?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I feel like Nancy Koba hydra could be a pretty good stump. So if they want to be i’d vote for them maybe.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And you also get two for the price of one.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Uh oh, i hope N_M doesn’t actually become the first stump.

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: NSG

[NorwegianboyEE]

y?

They're not very good at solving.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Mia setting up for their power wolfing play for when they roll scum this game already.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Wait no, Dkkoba is Maya fey? Or which is it?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Y'all boring

Whining about people being boring is boring.

Like this post, for example.

You're boring too

You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I didn't expect this game to take so long to actually start for real.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I just copied it from N_M’s signature.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If i knew i was going to roll scum i would be all for campaigning N_M, but if i knew i were to roll town i would want either NSG or Dkkoba hydra.

[NorwegianboyEE]

So since statistically i’d be more likely to roll town i’m keeping my vote on NSG. I think we need to keep Dkkoba hydra in game if we pick NSG tho since we need their vote and i think it would be more interesting to have them be in the game. My second pick would be anyone else that’s competent, and myself.

[NorwegianboyEE]

so NM be honest

if / when you're a stump, your very first post is going to be exiting the game, right

how could you call yourself a true troll if it wasn't

I think this is the best bet. I wouldn't expect the exit to be the first post, but an exit at some point would make town stump more powerful.

VOTE: NM

???

[NorwegianboyEE]

Thought i had an stroke reading that.
Also JJ’ Koba will probably make Nancy stop any bad tunneling so it’s an safe choice.
VOTE: Mia and Maya Fey

[NorwegianboyEE]

They’re so good that if i roll scum i’m basically signing my own death warrant here and putting the noose on my neck.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And like, Nancy’s main issues seems to be feeling irrational anger at getting scumread when they’re town. So if they are de facto locktown, shouldn’t that allow them to solve with an much more clear and unbiased mind?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I just really hope i roll scum if N_M is actually stumped here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also i don’t feel like my scumgame is completely awful anymore, but please keep thinking it is. )

[NorwegianboyEE]

I kinda do it sometimes, but that doesn’t mean i’m good at it.

[NorwegianboyEE]

What’s the most scummy opening post to a game possible? I’m thinking i want to get better at that fine art.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Yes!
Rolled town! So glad i’m able to enjoy this game with all of you, my fellow townies!

[NorwegianboyEE]

That's a good one. I'll keep it in mind.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Mastina so convincing my god.

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE
Plz not Not_Mafia. They're like the least convincing player in existence, there is literally nothing to gain from stumping them other than bad memes.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also if i get stumped i will add an compulsive-night 1-Not_Mafia-targeting-strongman to the game.

[NorwegianboyEE]

My relationship with A50 is strained but this feels harsh

Why? Did i miss something?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I might have an unhealthy interest in forum drama so uh... you don't have to answer but yeah...

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE
Plz not Not_Mafia. They're like the least convincing player in existence, there is literally nothing to gain from stumping them other than bad memes.

Precisely this.

Also to add on to it, i've almost never seen them explain their reads in a game of mafia, at least as an actual player they have a vote and thus can switch the wagons in either direction. As a stump they would need to actually convince players their scumread should be eliminated.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Assuming they're even going to play seriously.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also if i get stumped i will add an compulsive-night 1-Not_Mafia-targeting-strongman to the game.

Strongman isn't a role, it's a modifier... so unless you add "vig" or some other killing role, it won't have any effect.

I know it was a joke.

[NorwegianboyEE]

NK15, i just don't think you would be convincing enough to be a stump. Like even right now i kinda feel like i'm skimming your posts.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’m feeling spoilt from the mafia universe site. You can literally request an VC at anytime and it just posts automatically.
Is Koba hydra hammered? I’m too lazy to check.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm not spoiling anything but if i get stumped i do already have a pretty good idea of what i'd submit.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also i'd be like SUPER active if i'm stumped. To the end, and i'll read all posts.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why are you opposed N_M?
I promise i won't make an N_M targeting vigilante.

[NorwegianboyEE]

My political campaign has strong indications of imminent victory.
Give up N_M.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’m good at reading you Nancy.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Reasons to vote me:
- The game can start
- I’ve already presubmitted my suggested role so Jingle’s most likely got it all planned out.
- I will be a lot more objective than usual since i don’t have to focus on how i’m perceived.
- The game can start
- Alternative is N_M
- I’m usually very active and i comment on a lot of stuff and ask questions.
- The game can start

Reasons to not:
-

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’m just half-joking.
Koba/Nancy hydra is second best for me.

[NorwegianboyEE]

N_M is just riding that populist wave, he’s like the Donald Trump of mafia games.
Don’t let ‘im win folks! Vote Norwee!

[NorwegianboyEE]

And if y’all support me i will even give a complimentary free cookie.
Now watch me hug this puppy and kiss this baby on the forehead as i pledge the future safety of our beautiful forum.
Now isn’t that just hashtag #relatable?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I did point it out earlier.
As long as there’s an chance i prefer voting myself though.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I can't vote for Norway whose records is worse than mine, but with extra tunneling.

You know who likes Norwee for stump? Future scum!

I really don't think i'm that bad. >_>

[NorwegianboyEE]

Dgb looking at our games together. We have one game, (large 231) where i was the SK and me tunneling slots was directly advantageous to my wincon. And large 230 where admittedly i tunneled Flavour Leaf, but he was legit calling me and Nero Cain lockscum, distracting everyone from the game, got hard pocketed and defended scum ABR, and almost hammered a town wagon.
And you call me a bad tunneling player based on just that?
Are you serious?

[NorwegianboyEE]

DrippingGoofball is mod confirmed to be aligned with the TOWN

Time to tunnel DGB.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Vote player X, game solved. Ez gg no re.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Scum pro strats would be to make an stump accidentally say they believe in the town using bold text and getting them out of game immediately.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It's unfortunate that you're not familiar with my playstyle


I'm the kind of guy that will have 1k posts in a game regardless of alignment.

If you think I am subtle as either, you're barking up the wrong tree.

I think this is honest.
Not saying it makes House town, but they’ve stated pre-rand that they tend to be often pushed in games for their playstyle.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Are readlists usually produced this early for you mastina?

Answering for Mastina, but yes. They do that.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'll just drop that scum think I'm an easy push in games because I am very aggressive and have an unorthodox playstyle. I would surely hope that isn't any of you trying to shade me right now.

How is this not screaming scum to you NSG? Lol. It's actually kind of sad.

They’re usually this aggressive so i suggest giving their hydra some space.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also we shouldn’t have any early eliminations since scum can still choose and pick their toys to play with for a while so let’s give them less info by vibing a bit more before things get heated. That’s my opinion.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It’s extremely concerning that that all 4 votes on us happened before I even made a single post and 3 of those 4 absolutely should not have done that - Mastina especially.

I’d really love to know why anyone thinks I’m ever an easy D1 miselim candidate. Maybe FMFT could be scum, since they’re playing horribly but I feel really good with my vote.

In regards to Mastina, nah.
They’re usually pretty controversial early on, but then they slowly get better reads and can obvtown really well.
I see no reason to suspect them based on what i’m seeing here so far.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Flip Day 1 Mastina readslist upside down lmao.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why am I scum?

Strangely enough.

I actually think that this might make House town.

I'm not

sure

, but I THINK it's town from him. Not enough to locktown him but enough to move him out of scum for sure.

DrippingGoofball
jjh927
Moongrass

Not_Mafia

House

cyrus62/KorVex
Gamma Emerald
Titus
nomnomnom


Free Money Free Tea
Not Known 15
Mia and Maya Fey (NancyDrew/DKKoba Hydra)

Locktown, townread, lean town, null, various shades of south of null.

These evaluations here, especially note the House read changing from: "wow, awful slot. So scummy yuck. To: "huh maybe that makes them town??!" Is so town!mastina it almost makes me laugh.

[NorwegianboyEE]

What do you think of the Fey hydra, House

I'm not familiar enough with the players, especially koba, to have an opinion on them this early.

Also, we haven't directly interacted, so they're not really on my radar, yet.

It's been years since I've played on this site, so as a refresher I'll remind you that a lot of my interactions come from how people talk to or about me because I know my allotment but not others', and how we interact can leak whether they know mine.

Saying you read people based on how they read you is like an loud announcement to please pocket me if you’re town here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also we shouldn’t have any early eliminations since scum can still choose and pick their toys to play with for a while so let’s give them less info by vibing a bit more before things get heated. That’s my opinion.

@Moon is this the only reason you unvoted us? Because if you’re actually town here then the 1v1 thing is just going to help scum and I don’t even have a clue what 1v2 even means.

1v2 because you have two heads.

I unvoted because of NSG and Norwegian thinking it's a better idea to wait and see.

Jsyk, this isn’t really giving me a lot of confidence in you town. There is no way everyone who voted us is town and I think you’re possibly trying to set us up for a miselim.

Only reason I’m not voting you is TGP.

What’s TheGoldenParadox got to do with this?

Everything. Dude deathtunnelled me in tm game so I hardpushed his wagon. I think it’s what Norwee was referring to pre-game when he expressed concern about my tunnelling.

Wuuhat?
No, not really. I think your playstyle overall has to do with it, it’s not one wrong push on a scummy townie mattered much.

[NorwegianboyEE]

but I bet money at least one scum on our wagon.

Possible, would i bet the entire game around it? No.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You make it like it’s all based on isolated incidents, but it’s more like an amalgation of games you’ve been with me in for the past year.
But anyway, let’s not spend so much time on here discussing this.

As for my read on the hydra i think they’ve been leaning more towards the townie side of the spectrum up to now.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Amalgamation*

[NorwegianboyEE]

JJH and Gamma Emerald specifically are players i would be very careful townreading here since i’ve misread Gamma as "super town" once when he was scum and i believe Koba hydra when they say JJH can sound town as scum too.

[NorwegianboyEE]

@free money yes but look at this we know dgb is town and yet he has him in the scum part here

The upper part is their townreads no?

[NorwegianboyEE]

And what kind of ridiculous reasoning is that.
We know DGB is confirmed town so why would scum be so dumb as to put them as scum and seriously push them?

[NorwegianboyEE]

And what kind of ridiculous reasoning is that.
We know DGB is confirmed town so why would scum be so dumb as to put them as scum and seriously push them?

so that we town read them . we all would be like naa they cant be scum because scum cant be that dumb.

Ok but they added DGB as their top townread so clearly not their intention.
Personally i don't see the point in adding DGB to a reads list at all since they are of no concern as mod confirmed.

[NorwegianboyEE]

@jjh927 ..... why do you not have dgb as town since the mod told us they were town.

Is this a serious question?

yes due to their post having not mafia at the bottom . another form why even post about dgb since mod told us they were town or are you trying to defend them?

Lmao.
Not Mafia is a player in this game.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I also do in fact look scummy when I’m fighting off bs scumreads, which is why I wanted to be stump, so I could focus on that instead of being distracted.

Yes which is why you should stop pointing to meta and just solve. I've already told players to give you space so i can see more of that. Because quite frankly i don't find it super town indicative that you respond and point to meta as you did that as a scum hydra in that other game. What was it called, MBOS?

[NorwegianboyEE]

What game was it? The one where you hydra'd with Noraa.

[NorwegianboyEE]

As an aside, since this check-in has been requested, Nancy's posting thus far has not influenced my read on the hydra and if anything I'm leaning scum on it

Feels similar to animals upick 2, but with a hint of desperation to hear how I specifically am reading her

@Norwee, what do you think about this? Considering I am playing here exactly like I did in tm and Mr logic who told you that Pine’s role couldn’t possibly be town, is willfully ignoring my play in that game.

I don't think he's specifically ignored it.
@JJH, do you think Nancy's play in Team Mafia has any effect on your read on them here?

[NorwegianboyEE]

What game was it? The one where you hydra'd with Noraa.

You mean PBE? Pooky v FL. BH was in Happy Face.n

Ah yes, Polar Bear Express hydra in PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12389612
(Nancy was scum)

Idk Nancy, i just find it a tad bit worrying that you make it clear you're only capable of AtE, Omgusing and pointing to town meta, when rolling scum, and that is exactly what you've been doing kinda. And also what you did in the Pooky VS FL game.
I mean, should i give points for lack of self-awareness?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Nancy has activity going for them, but their reaction to getting voted even after i told off other slots to get them to focus on other things has pinged me negatively tbh.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I am the opposite

Gamma looks very much town

Why was this?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Reminder that scum still has 24 hours to choose their PR's so we don't want neither an elimination nor any claims or anything until that period is over.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Cyrus is too funny to get rid of on day 1.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ah, but you would rather not scumread Mia because they are your scumbuddy, right?

You could stand to be a bit less obvious when you distance.

Isn’t that a bit of a stretch? What connects Cyrus with the two?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Nancy has activity going for them, but their reaction to getting voted even after i told off other slots to get them to focus on other things has pinged me negatively tbh.

I might be mistaken on this but I feel that regardless of her alignment, Nancy would, with a wagon on her, especially by players she expects to be able to read her, have some amount of attention on this.

I think that the key difference isn't doing that, so much as it is, what she is doing

aside

from that. And/Or the

way

she does it. The way she focuses her attention and what she does aside from the focus there.

Both of those in this game feel different than what I've seen and would expect from scum-Nancy.

What do you mean?
Can you explain what exactly the difference is?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I do get it- if you want to elim in me or Mastina then you have to claim that we're both aligned since we've locktowned each other

Sadly, you are mistaken. I cannot be elimed in this game, because this is a shining example of my towngame and NSG is one of the treestumps

people say i stink but come on all I see from you and Nancy is my meta that my meta this
You both are making me want to vomit.

Lol.
I like Cyrus’s attitude.

[NorwegianboyEE]

House is town, Gamma, not so much.

Yeah, Gamma’s been pretty weak so far imo.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Yeah, no thanks. So did Nancy put you up to this?

What made you say this statement?

[NorwegianboyEE]

What bugs me is the "I'll tell you a secret" and "I've been carefully setting up webs that I myself have destroyed."

You do have a secret. Saying it out loud relieves your psychological tension. The secret is that you're scum.

Jeez DGB.
That sounds quite far-out.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Scum should have picked their PR’s now so an elimination can happen now.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I wanna hear NSG’s thoughts before any hammer though.

[NorwegianboyEE]

this is a sort of curious wagon composition we have going on right now.

anyone have any thoughts on it? i have a few of my own, but i'm interested to hear other people's first

I feel like some slots that i read as possibly aligned are composed on the NK wagon but not on the JJ wagon.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don’t really see anything scummy about Cyrus’s play here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

The implication is that you have not made a truthful effort to place me, and I don't think you really believe the arguments you have made. The reason you would make a push in bad faith is that you are aligned with the mafia.

Have you considered that they might just play this way though?

[NorwegianboyEE]

@Moongrass
Well, why did your read on Gamma change?
Like i’m seeing the same thing. You’re moving the goalpost and accusing Nom of tunneling instead of answering the question. Or did you scumread Nom? Idk, that’s not very clear either at this point.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Yeah like, it feels like Moonshot decided to townread Gamma here, but then forgot their initial fabricated read and now decided to scumread Gamma. And double the points by them going full Zuckerberg instead of answering a very simple discrepancy.
I would vote Moonshot here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also i keep calling the Moonshot for some reason but i intend to say Moongrass.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also other way around.
Typing things hastily while tired from work and sitting on the bus is surprisingly not a good idea.

[NorwegianboyEE]

1) i think that scum almost never ever do the bolded

I did see the bolded on a scum player once though, so it’s not like i pulled that read from my ass.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Point is i didn’t see the progression as genuine.
But apparently they did do exactly that as town once?
Weird, but ok. That makes things different.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Same as what Nom is saying though, i don't think it's inherently scummy to have some reads switch around when it's early day 1, and maybe it's hard to explain. But having that feeling escalate into a full "NO U SCUM" onto Nomnomnom is what i find suspicious. They could have just been clear about their stance considering Nom asked a pefectly valid question and i don't see why Moongrass as town wouldn't be self-aware enough as town to understand why town!Nom might find that suspicious instead of just considering it an scum attack on them.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Did Moongrass also try to hard discredit you and scumread you when you asked why their progression was odd in that previous game NSG?

[NorwegianboyEE]

jjh is almost assuredly town, i think, and i'm leaning towards moon and NK both being town.

scum is primarily in you right now i think,

but in general i get the feeling that scum just aren't doing much in this gamestate.

The bolded means what?

[NorwegianboyEE]

it means i scumread nom

I don't.

Let the stump wars commence.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also i feel like there are way too many players here announcing an 100% locktown read on other players for minor shit on day 1. Just feels like an disaster waiting to happen.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I was more interested about why you singled out mastina here

im prety sure mastina is scum i left my vote there for almost a day and they didnt even bother to defend fyi my votes been on mia all day now.

Mastina's been V/LA for non-game reasons this entire time. It's not right to say they're scum for not responding to you in that time.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I also did a quick mod ISO and your voting pattern is least likely to come from scum.

Why?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Do you actually want to know or are you just looking to confirm your scumread?

What kind of lame response is this? I just want to know if you actually have any meat behind your statements or not. What exactly is town about Gamma’s voting pattern?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also Moon, do you feel genuinely aggressive IRL whenever someone justs asks you questions about what you say? Surely that can’t be healthy.

[NorwegianboyEE]

The house and cyrus votes are towny because they are contrary to what's dominating the thread, which shows me that Gamma is playing his own game, supporting much of what I read in his ISO. The fact that he has been voting solo when I think scum are involved in the two main wagons also reads as a non agenda. Contrary to house, gamma is making reads and asking questions objectively. Contrary to house he didn't try to find a way onto a main wagon as soon as you OK'd an elim.

Ok thank you.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You’re an character Moongrass.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I can see some potential townie tone from their contempt, but they also insist they have no difference between their town or scum play which makes me not want to bother to meta them to see if they are different as either allignment.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Point is i didn’t see the progression as genuine.

You know whose progression sounds more genuine then town? Scum progression.

Scum isn't looking for scum, scum is looking for credibility. Scum is much more careful in their progression.

Ok boomer.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Point is i didn’t see the progression as genuine.

You know whose progression sounds more genuine then town? Scum progression.

Scum isn't looking for scum, scum is looking for credibility. Scum is much more careful in their progression.

Ok boomer.

It's GenX, you lazy pot smoking millenial!!!!

Whatever you say, boomer.
Your dusty mood don't vibe with me.
You are old and therefore i must say 10-4 dinosaur.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Sorry, I'm not likely to be on today.

X post all games.

titus i am exasperating alot more from you after seeing that i have the game down to 5 people as possible scum.

Which are?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Point is i didn’t see the progression as genuine.

You know whose progression sounds more genuine then town? Scum progression.

Scum isn't looking for scum, scum is looking for credibility. Scum is much more careful in their progression.

Ok boomer.

It's GenX, you lazy pot smoking millenial!!!!

Millenials (as a whole) don't even seem to realize an entire generation between theirs and the 70+ year old Baby Boomers even exist.

It's cute, and a little sad.

And ironically, it's that generation that's been smoking a lot of pot. Not mine.

[NorwegianboyEE]

JJ what are your current thoughts at?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I should probably read more on NK15 since he looks super elimination baity.
Not saying that makes them town, but still true.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Moon and Mastina are basically locktown for me

What was your take on Moon buddying me and townreading me until I called them scum, then flipping the script and immediately trying to to build a wagon on me?

Not even a gradual build up, it went from cookies and milk to acid cocktails.

Yeah i don’t feel like Moon’s been townie at all so far.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ok, having looked it over, i prefer an Moongrass lim to an NK15 lim.
NSG townreads moon but i think their reasoning is pretty meh, just meta.

[NorwegianboyEE]

JJ what are your current thoughts at?

Mia is looking more town.

Cyrus appears to be now townreading me because of my part in avoiding a hammer and I'm not sure what to think of that- still think he's quite possibly scum

Nom looks town, NM is possibly scum and Titus is probably scum


Moon and Mastina are basically locktown for me


I think Gamma and House are both town

FMFT could easily be scum but haven't really seen anything convincing me either way

I think that's everyone

You missed NK15

Oh right I'm not voting NK15 any more because I don't want an early hammer, but good odds of NK15 being scum

This is an odd thing to forget. Feels kinda performative.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Not liked JJ’s read on Cyrus.
In fact i don’t really find anything about JJ townie.
Gamma i’ve liked a bit better for their interactions recently.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Not scumreading JJ for the record, just not convinced.

[NorwegianboyEE]

NSG wanna talk more about Moon?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ok, having looked it over, i prefer an Moongrass lim to an NK15 lim.
NSG townreads moon but i think their reasoning is pretty meh, just meta.

I'd be fine with that, on the grounds that a Moon red flip leads to an NK elimination the next day.

Moon lost the farm once NK hit E-1 with the elimination moratorium lifted.

What does the last part mean?
And why should NK go with an Moon scumflip?

[NorwegianboyEE]

2) Moon bent over backwards defending them when I put NK in lolhammer range with NM in the game.

I mean, could be white knighting town. If i was scum in that position i’d even consider defending them while expecting N_M to hammer.

[NorwegianboyEE]

is no one else seeing how hard it is to get a nk hammer . think we need 7 votes if there is 3 scum here and nither of them are voting nk15 then thats why its takeing so long.

That's an gross oversimplification of how mafia works.
And it's pretty much only 2 mafia votes if NK is scum here since NK would obviously not vote themselves if they are scum and also town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

NSG wanna talk more about Moon?

I can talk more later. In short, I think I have a lot more authority than you do to talk about moon's behavior here and I you really shouldn't be just dismissing that, especially as "just meta".

I was about to go on a rant about why nsg is next level but I thought I'd save it until post game.

Well i've never played with you before so if NSG is that convinced i'll consider that. But that doesn't mean i'm treating all their words as gospel.

[NorwegianboyEE]

shrug

i hate to make comments like that because they're classical hubris and set me up to potentially look stupid if i'm wrong (and just in general it's not how i expect to convince people), but i do think that people are ignoring me in this game just because my reads sort of diverge from consensus and they don't want to deal with that.

Well, convince me.

[NorwegianboyEE]

or i would just never so confidently declare that i'm playing my town game. furthermore, there have been games where i've made almost exactly the same comment as town: that i am unambiguously playing my towngame and that other people in the playerlist who know me should recognize this and would never vote for me.

Then i think your scumgame is just really low. As i’ve identified slots that are strong townplayers and confidently sure they would correctly townread me and done what i can to pocket them by saying: "this is obviously my towngame" when i am scum, and it’s worked like an charm. What makes JJ and i uncapable of something you cannot?

[NorwegianboyEE]

If I had rolled scum here I'd be playing to make sure nsg and mastina townread me.

Very good point actually.

[NorwegianboyEE]

or i would just never so confidently declare that i'm playing my town game. furthermore, there have been games where i've made almost exactly the same comment as town: that i am unambiguously playing my towngame and that other people in the playerlist who know me should recognize this and would never vote for me.

Then i think your scumgame is just really low. As i’ve identified slots that are strong townplayers and confidently sure they would correctly townread me and done what i can to pocket them by saying: "this is obviously my towngame" when i am scum, and it’s worked like an charm. What makes JJ and i uncapable of something you cannot?

almost nothing in mafia is about whether or not something is capable of something, it's about the probabilities. the

probability

that

any

town player with somewhat distinct towngames and scumgames would make a comment like that is—in my estimation—low, for the reasons that i said there. thus, i consider it town-indicative. you aren't the same kind of player as jjh is or as i am, so i wouldn't apply the same analysis to you that i would to him. just the same way i said that moon shouldn't apply the same analysis she would to scum!RC to jjh.

And this is exactly why scum would do so. Every good scumgame i've had i always try to do what i know people will think: "scum!Norwee would never do this".
I guess it makes sense for you to claim players are different, but in that case. Are you saying JJH has had the exact same playstyle in all his games up to now and never changed his strategies as scum?

[NorwegianboyEE]

If you never analyze your own play and try to find new ways of deceiving town as scum then you'll never strive to improve as an player, and JJH seems to me like an highly competent player that would try to improve his scumgame.

[NorwegianboyEE]

norwee, do you think that jjh is scum or no? if the answer is no then i'm sorry but i don't think that it's an effective use of my time to get into a discussion about whether or not people have metas at all and whether or not meta is an effective tool, which i think it unambiguously is.

I don't think he's unambigiously scum. I just think your reason for townreading him is bad, as i could easily see them flipping scum as well at this point.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You've stated JJH is completely or incredibly likely to be town, and i state my opposition to that.
And here we are.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also, nothing makes me less wanting of listening to anyone's arguments than: "I won an paragon".

Sheesh.

[NorwegianboyEE]

To be exceedingly clear, my argument for JJH being town has nothing at all to do with the fact that I won paragon, or any claim of superior general ability to anyone else. The specific point I was making when I brought that up was to counter your implication that I was incorrectly projecting my own mindset or playstyle onto other players when it was not applicable, which you asserted without evidence. This has nothing to do with my reads on anyone or attempting to convince someone on a read. It's specifically to the contrary of you directly impugning my skills based on nothing at all.

Then can you explain what basis of logic you are using specifically on JJH?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Or do we just give it up for the almighty NSG and lim Nomnom here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

To be exceedingly clear, my argument for JJH being town has nothing at all to do with the fact that I won paragon, or any claim of superior general ability to anyone else. The specific point I was making when I brought that up was to counter your implication that I was incorrectly projecting my own mindset or playstyle onto other players when it was not applicable, which you asserted without evidence. This has nothing to do with my reads on anyone or attempting to convince someone on a read. It's specifically to the contrary of you directly impugning my skills based on nothing at all.

Then

EXPLAIN

it. The reason i'm doing this in the first place is because you're mostly just saying JJH is town and when i asked why you just bring up your authority on the matter and that you are awesome at reading those players instead of explaining exactly what it is that proves your case.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Nsg that's where you ignore the other person. We all know you're great, can you please redirect onto if my wagon was a counter and what nom scum means for NK?

This isn't about me proving that I'm great, it's the exact opposite. I don't care if people think that I'm bad or not. It upsets me slightly to have people impugn my skills, but it upsets me a

lot

more to have someone imply that I'm this arrogant person bragging about her accomplishments, because that goes against everything that I stand for as a person. It's completely contrary to everything about how I hold myself. I don't even know what kind of comparison I could make to get this across. I believe in humility so much and have always tried to act in accordance to that. I just really don't appreciate someone casually implying otherwise.

Ok but like, if you just explained why your reads are what they are and what the meta reads are about then i wouldn't have questioned your humility in the first place.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Guys, nom is scum.

Consider things here.
You
A: Consider yourself an extremely humble, yet talented player. As evidenced by you pointing out your own paragon, yet disliking to do so.
B: You case JJH as town and Nom as scum, with BARELY any sort of reasoning whatsoever. I can even remember back during my first game of mafia on this site called Haunted Village you popped in and claimed i was town without explaining the reasoning why, and yet a lot of people got cold feet and stopped pushing my wagon. You have this incredible weight behind your push and yet it's like i cannot see into your mind at all, why are your reads what they are? What do you base them on? How am i supposed to know your read on JJ or Nom is something i'd agree with when all you brought to the table with Nom was "Guys, nom is scum" and when you put them on the bottom of your unexplained readslist in your very first mention of Nom in the game. And now already a lot of players are sheeping you and calling Nom scum because you just said so. I find it incredibly odd and also wrong for a player to have this much influence and yet give so little in terms of actual analysis.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Haunted Village

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=81049
This gam actually^
open 768

[NorwegianboyEE]

do you think it's possible to sort people based on meta?

Yes.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I have explained it: 1667, 1672, 1679, 1684. In

none

of those posts do I "just bring up [my] authority on the matter".

Only post 1667 is what i'd consider an actual explanation about your JJH read, and it's very limited. And i also already responded to it and do not believe it's an very good metric for finding out if a player is town or mafia.

[NorwegianboyEE]

As for your read on Nomnom it remains, still very much. Unexplained.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'd consider Nomnom!scum, but it's hard when all i feel like i'm seeing is an dogpile, and Moon yet again switching his reads like an sleazy politician always turning wherever the conditions are favourable.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You've stated JJH is completely or incredibly likely to be town, and i state my opposition to that.
And here we are.

I've noticed most of your communication with nsg seems to be regarding disagreements. I'd like to see y'all maybe hash out which reads you can see eye-to-eye on.

I agree Cyrus town and FMFT low i guess?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwegian I think you have rare gut read skill particularly in early game. If it's possible could you forget everything and reread people's first few posts and nut out some reads based on that, I'd be really interested to know what you think if you're willing.

Um ok, but mostly just doing it because that sounds interesting.

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: Free Money Free Tea

I believe in neither of these things.

VOTE: Free Money Free Tea

I believe in neither of these things.

VOTE: Free Money Free Tea
Nor do I.

VOTE: FMFT

Scummy third vote without any text.
-Nomnomnom

ALRIGHT SCUM WHO WILL WE KILL

"the pr!"

"the guy who srs us!"

"wait, kill someone?"

.....!

Jingle was the moderator.

Town post.
+Free Money Free Tea

Like, please do not at any point question decisions that the stumps may or may not have made with regards to power roles, as getting them to defend those choices is akin to rolefishing

Town post
+JJH

^ Boring

Response to JJH good.
+NM

[NorwegianboyEE]

Mastina's first post was meh too.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwegian I think you have rare gut read skill particularly in early game. If it's possible could you forget everything and reread people's first few posts and nut out some reads based on that, I'd be really interested to know what you think if you're willing.

Based on what by the way? Where did you get that impression from?

[NorwegianboyEE]

for the record, i don't really tend to do that intentionally, it just could be said to still be playing effectively.

Assuming Nom is scum and you didn’t just open the floodgates for all mafia to pile on a Nom wagon.

[NorwegianboyEE]

or i would just never so confidently declare that i'm playing my town game. furthermore, there have been games where i've made almost exactly the same comment as town: that i am unambiguously playing my towngame and that other people in the playerlist who know me should recognize this and would never vote for me.

Then i think your scumgame is just really low. As i’ve identified slots that are strong townplayers and confidently sure they would correctly townread me and done what i can to pocket them by saying: "this is obviously my towngame" when i am scum, and it’s worked like an charm. What makes JJ and i uncapable of something you cannot?

almost nothing in mafia is about whether or not something is capable of something, it's about the probabilities. the

probability

that

any

town player with somewhat distinct towngames and scumgames would make a comment like that is—in my estimation—low, for the reasons that i said there. thus, i consider it town-indicative. you aren't the same kind of player as jjh is or as i am, so i wouldn't apply the same analysis to you that i would to him. just the same way i said that moon shouldn't apply the same analysis she would to scum!RC to jjh.

And this is exactly why scum would do so. Every good scumgame i've had i always try to do what i know people will think: "scum!Norwee would never do this".
I guess it makes sense for you to claim players are different, but in that case. Are you saying JJH has had the exact same playstyle in all his games up to now and never changed his strategies as scum?

Yeah nsg, that really isn’t a great argument. I am having more doubts but uh. I mean in uPick he was off the charts bleeding obvtown, so I would locktown him here if I saw that.

In a game just recently an quite good town player literally said i can’t be scum because i called another player that pushed me arrogant, and i: "only do that as town." And yeah, i was scum.
Did it intentionally too.

[NorwegianboyEE]

"I will never be eliminated because NSG is in this game!" Is practically an example of the sort of WIFOMY statement scum!JJ makes if he knows he can’t obvtown as well as usual so he finds an overly dramatic and confident way of declaring himself town to pocket NSG and hopefully stay alive regardless of his play.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Guys, nom is scum.

Why?

Imagine getting an answer to this.

[NorwegianboyEE]

i am unfortunately getting the feeling that some of your play right now is being driven by spite towards me rather than primarily a good faith effort to win the game for town. this is especially unfortunate because i hold none of the same sort of animosity towards you. the things you've alleged about me have upset me a lot because they go against everything that stand for and consider important, but i hold no hatred towards you or desire to tear you down. my only wish is for you to stop making comments of that nature, and perhaps to make more of a good faith effort to really understand the points that i'm trying to get across.

How am i supposed to read your takes in good faith when they lack explanation and what little they do have is unconvincing?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I feel like you’re now avoiding the answer to the questions i seek by being overly pre-occupied with my tone when i only really seek the answer to the questions i’ve asked and though my tone may be rough it usually is when i’m heavily engaged in a game of mafia.

[NorwegianboyEE]

"I will never be eliminated because NSG is in this game!" Is practically an example of the sort of WIFOMY statement scum!JJ makes if he knows he can’t obvtown as well as usual so he finds an overly dramatic and confident way of declaring himself town to pocket NSG and hopefully stay alive regardless of his play.

do you have some information regarding JJH specifically as a player to make the claim that that is the sort of statement that scum!JJH makes, or are you making this statement based on what you yourself would do and assuming that JJH would do the same thing?

Yes, and i’m bringing it up as an possibility to disprove your case on JJ town as i have seen players claiming to have good read accuracy on "player" be wrong before. So why should you be right when i do not receive an better answer other than the plain one. Which is that you just know because you are experienced with JJ.

[NorwegianboyEE]

i am unfortunately getting the feeling that some of your play right now is being driven by spite towards me rather than primarily a good faith effort to win the game for town. this is especially unfortunate because i hold none of the same sort of animosity towards you. the things you've alleged about me have upset me a lot because they go against everything that stand for and consider important, but i hold no hatred towards you or desire to tear you down. my only wish is for you to stop making comments of that nature, and perhaps to make more of a good faith effort to really understand the points that i'm trying to get across.

How am i supposed to read your takes in good faith when they lack explanation and what little they do have is unconvincing?

@Norwee, can you please just apologize to nsg? Clearly you hurt her feelings.

Ok.
Sorry NSG.

[NorwegianboyEE]

for the record, i had a really long post typed up responding in-depth to 1758, but my computer crashed literally right as i was previewing it, which was disheartening to the point that i wasn't up to re-make it earlier in the day. i'm not intentionally ignoring you (just in case you think that i am), nor would i ever deliberately play to provoke or upset you, or anyone. unfortunately, i'm not getting the same feeling back from you.

Alright. So you do actually plan to share your reasoning? That’s good then.
If you could explain why you read Nom as scum it would be great too.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Your claim that i feel spite towards you is wrong.

[NorwegianboyEE]

i'm going to re-ask my question, because i'm not sure that i really see a clear answer to it here. you made the claim that what JJH said is "practically an example of the sort of WIFOMY statement scum~JJ makes if...". the question i'm asking is this: do you have some specific information about JJH as a player that leads to you making this claim? or is this statement based primarily off of your own scumplay and the belief that JJH would do something similar?

It’s based on what i think JJ would be doing if he rolled scum and tries to win the game as scum.
I don’t have a lot of experience with JJ so i could be wrong but i would like to see an reason for why they should be read as town if i were to change my read to town on them.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Anyway it feels like i’m saying the same thing constantly and still just waiting for an answer so i’ll get back to you on this topic when i see one.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Fey hydra is town btw.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’d see one of Moon/JJ eliminated today. I’d find their flips immensely helpful.

[NorwegianboyEE]

NK15 is still quite meh.

[NorwegianboyEE]

you know what, just don't bother responding norwee, i'm done. just forget it.

Ok.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Fey’s hydra dissonance pings as very townie. And Nancy’s comments has really pinged me as townie with how they’re evaluating their own reads and seeming paranoid about their current solves.

[NorwegianboyEE]

NK15 just quoting a post and saying "maybe Fey scum" is sooo bad but idk if it’s town or scum bad considering they just always play weird.

[NorwegianboyEE]

this stump dissonance is legitimately pissing me off atp
I half think one of you bowing out would be beneficial atp because I don't think you to are going to ever actually work together here

Would it help if we ignore each other for a while and just solve independently?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don’t think you should leave the game NSG, for all it’s worth.
But that’s up to you what you choose to do.

[NorwegianboyEE]

There is a single game where I have played an active game, but my activity burnt out after day 1 because I can't uphold enthusiasm as easily for scumgames. I was a recruitable traitor and wanted recruiting early on, so after I got recruited in N1 because I played like I do to get NKed early, my goal was finishee and I just fizzled. I'll find that for you

Please do.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Actually NSG, please don’t even consider what Gamma said.
I don’t want to be responsible for inadvertedly tossing you out of the game if it turns out you might even have 10 times better reads than me. Lmao.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Matbe just eliminate NK15

[NorwegianboyEE]

this has nothing to do with reads. i hate my reads this game. they're nothing at all worth talking about, defending, or elaborating on. i hate being in this game. signing up for it was a mistake, and now getting out of it would be a disservice to everyone else.

Sorry for making you feel this way. I can be too harsh sometimes.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think this thread mood gives away that scum could just be someone obvious so i would probably be just fine with an NK15 elimination today since they look pretty bad and i doubt they will improve much.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Tried and trusted, "lim scummy slot, if they not scum. Re-evaluate" strategy.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I still have no idea what this "ex-friend" thing is about.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Kill that slot.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You don't know the roles that each other picked, right?

Right.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Henrik Weebsen, if you vote NK right now so I can hammer

How?

[NorwegianboyEE]

N_M is sending some confusing messages right now.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Yeah let’s wait.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Did Norwegian choose the IC role?

Not answering this.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Titus, gamma, nk

Why Gamma?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Instant gut vibes tells me Moon could be scum here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Killing an Innocent Child on day 1 is really not as common as y'all seem to think it is.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Night 1*

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think town wins from here after that D1.

No.

NK was a commuter enabler. If the commuter is an real town role it would be in scum's interest to buss NK15 and limit the town's power.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also NK15 isn't an particularly strong scum player i'd want for endgame if i rolled mafia with him.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It's either that or an weak scum team consisting of probably Titus + someone else.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I've got townreads on Gamma, Fey hydra and Cyrus right now. Anyone else is fair game to consider eliminating.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Titus what's your takes on NK's teammates from your POV here?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm not at all convinced Titus couldn't just be town here that had wrong reads so i definitely want to see what they bring to the table before i'd see them condemned.

[NorwegianboyEE]

NSG do you want to share your current thoughts? I won't argue, i just want to know if possible.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If I'm wrong it would be wise to look at the hydra again.

Why the hydra?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I just don't townread them.

Yuck.

[NorwegianboyEE]

titus, ,moon if i remove gramma, nk and nm that's who i come up with.

Hey cyrus...

VOTE: cyrus62

Why did you visit nom³ last night?

answer me this why woud i kill the one who got people off my back? i think as scum it would have been better for me to kill gramma.

So instead of answering you get weirdly defensive.
Aw man, so Cyrus really is scum?

[NorwegianboyEE]

???

i felt like house was makeing up stuff so insted of saying huh. i made up a stupid answer.

So you're saying you didn't visit nom?

I doubt he visited nom³. It was a gambit. I really don't like his response to it.

That said...

In case I die, I'd like to highlight this post

Your entrance posts seem a little more proactive than what I thought would be normal for you NK15. That yawn in particular seemed like posting for the sake of posting. Am I wrong?

if NK does indeed flip scum then this post is likely coming from scum distancing early given the seemingly laser precise reasoning on some early game comment, and that comment also sticks out in the fact that

Moongrass does not have a game played with NK15 in her topic history

. So this is potentially some hard TMI right there.

I can picture Moon being scum with this nk considering how heavily they react to suspicion.

-_-

[NorwegianboyEE]

Please no fake claims.

[NorwegianboyEE]

@Norwee, @nsg can one you confirm NM is actually tpr?

No.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also if N_M isn’t lying and they can investigate they should check JJ in my opinion.
Hydra feels pretty town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

@Norwee, @nsg can one you confirm NM is actually tpr?

No.

So we don’t know then if Gamma’s actually confirmed. Do you believe his claim?

I don’t want to inform scum of anything. Now is not the time.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don’t think N_M is playing like scum regardless.