Open 815: Forest Fire Redux [Endgame]

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: ydrasse

Lim all ydrasses

[Infinity 324]

YAY

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: ydrasse

[Infinity 324]

No ydrasse is a meanie though

[Infinity 324]

Infinity's yay was kinda weird

If I wrote it as YaY would it make more sense

...nevermind

[Infinity 324]

Yes lol

[Infinity 324]

Prism seems to be up to her towny antics so far

[Infinity 324]

Lukewarm you're a lovely person

[Infinity 324]

Wow the toxic 1v1 is really a lost art isn't it

[Infinity 324]

Let the hate flow through you

[Infinity 324]

Ydrasse might actually be scum

[Infinity 324]

That's a bit premature

[Infinity 324]

Ydrasse might actually be scum

Can you talk more about this?

Town!ydrasse often has analysis that digs a bit deeper than what she's done so far. I felt like her discussion with you earlier on this page was an opportunity for her to do that, and instead she gave an "I noticed that too" for your comment about me and a non-response about johnny. Not that she wouldn't have noticed a possible scummy thing I did if she was scum, but she would be less likely to point it out herself because she knows I would be sensitive to her scumreading me. As for the johnny thing, her response felt a bit overexplained, I would expect her to either just say "ok" or try to get you to explain what exactly about johnny's posting pinged you.

I liked her response to me a lot though.

[Infinity 324]

:( I hate scumreading people and them being like "oh I'm just upset" it's an unfortunate part of mafia

[Infinity 324]

At some point I'd hope you'd realize that it's not nothing it's actually just how I play town but

VOTE: hectic

[Infinity 324]

Lukewarm was town in guardians

I agree he's towny here

[Infinity 324]

Oh I didn't read your post close enough

I'n hesitant to use marathon meta, but I agree with your assessment

[Infinity 324]

Both alignments.

[Infinity 324]

You can ask me real-time questions, the problem in marathons is more that I can't really take time (like 5 minutes for example) to respond if I need it.

[Infinity 324]

Oh that makes sense

[Infinity 324]

That post reminds me of something I'd post as town because I'm a nervous person, but I lean scum on it I guess?

[Infinity 324]

You don't understand the dark history Prism and I have, Infinity. We were both town in Chara's Folly and her 100 page long push still keeps me up at night

UNVOTE:

This makes that post lean town for me

[Infinity 324]

Prism have you seen hectic/ydrasse play together before?

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: waiting room

[Infinity 324]

I think prism's play recently fits much more cleanly into a scum trying to look town mindset, but to call it scummy would be a stretch.

[Infinity 324]

If the answer was yes, it's less likely scum!prism decides to come out of the gate pushing you I think.

[Infinity 324]

If the answer was yes, it's less likely scum!prism decides to come out of the gate pushing you I think.

I have not seen the dynamic play out beyond vague months-old recollections but am very aware of it, if that was the point of your question, which was a large motivator in 129, 134, and 140

Ah ok. That pushes it a little more into "I'm not sure what you're doing here as scum" territory.

[Infinity 324]

I think prism's play recently fits much more cleanly into a scum trying to look town mindset, but to call it scummy would be a stretch.

I might be misunderstanding this, but you say it is scum but it's not scummy?

Basically I'm saying her play is less towny than earlier but it could easily come from town so I don't really think it's scummy per se

[Infinity 324]

The last line of that sentence doesn't seem like a slip to me, I read it as "I'm ok with you speculating that I could be scumreading you in order to get townread"

I agree that some of the ways that prism is approaching this feel a bit performative, but I'm also struggling to articulate it.

[Infinity 324]

I'm sure you have a good reason for playing the way you have so far, prism, but I kinda miss deja vu prism.

[Infinity 324]

:( sorry

[Infinity 324]

I actually can kinda relate to that. Especially when I'm proud of myself for something and someone else praises me, I don't know what to do with that feeling, should I feel even more proud? Idk lol

[Infinity 324]

Explain?

Basically, I don't expect town to be nervous in that situation, and I expect scum to hide their nervousness. Originally when I read the post, I felt that it made more sense for hectic to be scum who couldn't hide his nervousness than nervous town. When he explained that he had been tunneled by prism before, it made more sense to me for hectic to be nervous as town.

[Infinity 324]

Lukewarm had by far the best reaction to the 1v1, not even close, and should be voted in no world.

I agree. For me it's mostly the interactions with T3 and feeling really comfortable diving into that nuance which is the most towny, either way luke is my strongest TR

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: johnny too many other people are towntelling and johnny normally gives me flashes of towniness but not here

[Infinity 324]

Fidget's reaction to the 1v1 was towny imo

Luke is super towny

Hectic is towny

Ydrasse is lean town ig

T3 is somewhat towny

Ask me about these I'm too lazy to explain otherwise

[Infinity 324]

Lukewarm scumreading me this game is a huge scumtell.

This sort of confidence reads towny to me. If he's scum and luke has a history of correctly reading him, he probably wouldn't want to draw attention to that.

I also think scum might want to give more explanation to try to appear town, but that's a weaker reason.

[Infinity 324]

Noted, will look at what I thought was towny from her

What made you think "eager to take a side" as opposed to "eager to give thoughts"?

[Infinity 324]

Also, do you not care that I'm TRing hectic

[Infinity 324]

256 just to reference what we're talking about

I see how this post is surface-level scummy in terms of the progression. To me, the fact that fidget isn't that confident in her initial impressions makes it make sense, and I've gotten that feeling before where both sides are approaching a 1v1 pretty scummy but it doesn't really make sense for them to be partners. The towniest part about this is how she works through her thought process within the post, though I don't feel as strongly about it as I did before.

[Infinity 324]

I hope fidget makes more towny posts because there was something else she did that was towny but I don't wanna go through her iso.

[Infinity 324]

I think ydrasse is town just cause she doesn't give a shit lol

[Infinity 324]

Everyone is so quite

Prism talk to me about fidget

[Infinity 324]

I want Johnny to fight back more so I'm less paranoid

I don't know if scum!johnny would necessarily fight back that much though? I don't have a better scumread, anyway.

Does someone else have a better scumread?

Ydrasse come play

[Infinity 324]

That post feels like prism is trying to get hectic to feel the warm fuzzies. Mutual townreads feel really good and scum want to manipulate town into feeling that. Me no like

[Infinity 324]

Not sure I understand

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: prism

Let's get some competing wagons in here

[Infinity 324]

This is deeply ironic and you are wildly, wildly offtrack in your interpretation. I think fixing it by being more explicit would be in poor taste.

I would reflect on what Hectic townread about my posts recently, and think carefully about what 363 is suggesting.

To be honest, if you want me to townread you, or not scumread you, you're going to have to lay it out more explicitly because I'm too dumb to understand what you're saying here.

It's possible that my interpretation is very wrong, but I'm ok just following my gut which is going to lead me to scum d1 more often than rand.

[Infinity 324]

If that's addressed at me, then yeah that makes sense, it makes my point stronger not weaker if anything.

[Infinity 324]

To me, if your goal is to push hectic and look towny based in how you back off, a significant part of that would be how hectic views you. And 359 felt like trying to get on good terms with hectic, which is a good way to get him to townread you. Even if you're scum there's a decent chance that in wrong about this, but again I'm ok voting where my gut tells me and seeing what comes out of that.

I'm sorry you got upset

[Infinity 324]

Prism, my intent in explaining my gut reads is to make me easier and more pleasant to play with, not less. If it does the opposite pretend I didn't give a reason for voting you besides gut. I don't know how you play scum and most theories about how you play scum will probably be wrong.

[Infinity 324]

It's like, I don't really know how you play scum. I could try to find out but that's not really how I'm interested in spending the next hour or so. Fmpov, why wouldn't you sell your own plan out for WIFOM? Hectic already saw what he thought was a viable scum narrative for you, and I don't see a lot of townies going "hey look this person just revealed their whole scum narrative, I'm gonna vote them now".

As of now I scumread you, and it's your choice whether or not you want to engage me on it. Right now you seem to be engaging me on it and talking about how unpleasant you find that engagement, which is pleasant for neither of us.

[Infinity 324]

UNVOTE:

I don't want you to self-hammer, but I don't owe you shit in terms of asking or engaging you on my scumread.

[Infinity 324]

I'm not going to apologize or make excuses for possibly being wrong. I have enough respect for your scumplay that I think it would be pretty arrogant of me to think that a question I came up with off the top of my head could help me distinguish between your towngame and your scumgame. All I'm asking of you right now is that you accept that I don't know why I scumread you.

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: prism

[Infinity 324]

It is worth noting that I indirectly invited a revote in 385, but I did find the delay a bit ?_?

in my head it went

infinity unvote > prism makes boast basically saying "you can't own up to this" > infinity tries to placate > infinity revotes after a pause. why the pause? i don't know what she was reconsidering.

i feel like when your read is a gutread you just slap it back down instead of waiting, or at least make a comment about how you tried to better explain it but she didn't. just tried to keep the pressure going and hoping that it looked good enough.

I forgot to revote is what it was.

[Infinity 324]

She fully owned up to the vote, it was the "dialogue" composed of her saying absolutely nothing for me to work with or respond to that drove me up the wall.

I concur that her recognizing ways to work around or explore the gut read further and promptly not doing so, or weighing in on my reaction at all except to fail to placate me, was pretty bad.

There's a lot of internal processing that goes into my gut reads that I don't want or need to voice because I either can't or don't think it would be useful. I will admit though that part of it was my annoyance with you expecting something like that of me when I don't feel like I should need to justify every read of mine. One thing that I haven't talked about was how I felt that you absolutely needing to engage with me about my read was something you'd need to do as scum here, though I can understand a similar mindset as town.

[Infinity 324]

It's also, like, I'm not sure why you're not thinking about whether my read on you makes me scum until like a day later? Though that's a pretty small part of my read

[Infinity 324]

UNVOTE:

Really don't want a hammer

[Infinity 324]

Ydrasse what are your other weird vibes and feelings that don't involve me being scum

[Infinity 324]

Why is fidget scum

[Infinity 324]

Oh I missed it since you quoted a bunch of stuff to me

I said I was waiting for fidget to townpost but she hasn't yet :(

[Infinity 324]

You were a townlean prior and not giving depth makes it virtually impossible to sort you unless I resort to policying.

I don't think my read on you is going to be the best way for you to sort me then.

[Infinity 324]

Thinking about this more, this is way too easy, I don't think I want to elim prism today. Maybe johnny, idk. I wish there was someone else I explicitly not-townread. Idk. Anyone have...thoughts?

[Infinity 324]

"Scum!prism wouldn't get limmed d1" is a terrible reason to not want to lim prism, but that's...kinda where I'm at? At first there were a bunch of reasons why I felt that scum!prism would potentially have trouble in this game, and at first it at least seemed like she was trying to avoid getting limmed, but now less so. I sort of want to spend another day seeing how the game develops around her, and if that means scum!her will be able to manipulate everyone into escaping the lim or whatever, so be it.

[Infinity 324]

Prism I believe I've seen you play scum a couple other times, I remember reading a couple of your posts from a recent normal and a newbie I think and wondering how scum could possibly post those things. Even just skimming the post you linked here I'm wondering about what your approach would be here to control the narrative, and I need a lot of evidence that you're trying and failing to control the narrative to satisfactorily answer the question of "what the hell happened for scum!prism to get into this situation?" I wouldn't call it a townread yet, but

[Infinity 324]

There's more to my read if it would be helpful, but right now I feel like I've talked enough about my read on you, and no one ever townreads me based on "infinity's thought processes make a lot of sense" anyway

PEdit: I don't need to know how you play scum to know that you're good at it and that I don't think you've been trying to control the narrative of the thread since, like, the latter half of our interaction yesterday, even though I didn't realize it right away.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah. I think a scumtell of mine is actually giving reasoning when voting someone but that doesn't matter right now.

This feels like a genuine realization about their play that t3 made that keeps me out of wanting to put t3 in the PoE

My PoE is prism, johnny, fidget, maybe child

[Infinity 324]

Interesting, I'll ISO her.

[Infinity 324]

It feels like you're arguing why Prism could be scum rather than why Prism is scum. You've mentioned this before that Prism has a wide scumrange, and that's certainly fair, although exactly why you find Prism scummy has been unclear to me. You've countered reasons for townreading Prism, but what's your suspicion? I suppose it's a gut level read and hard to articulate. My point is just that it seems like you're countering "Prism couldn't be scum" logic more than addressing why Prism is scum in the first place.

You misread, I'm trying to explain why I changed my mind and don't want to elim prism today. I feel like she would be doing more as scum to at least try to control the narrative and shift attention away from herself, so that she wouldn't be the center of attention and widely scumread.

[Infinity 324]

Out of curiosity, do you either of you two know who I am? I don't respond to guesses or anything but some people just know.

No! I didn't know you were an alt

[Infinity 324]

The only thing stopping me from putting child in my PoE is a level of newbie earnestness that I get from their posts, idk if you have thoughts

[Infinity 324]

Ydrasse - Null/Town Lean? A fair amount of her posts feel toneless to me, but when she makes posts with more than one line in them they feel sorta towny to me, as though she's actually trying to solve instead of looking like she is.

This feels like an observation someone would usually only come to if they're genuinely trying to sort someone else

[Infinity 324]

Ydrasse talk to me about child

[Infinity 324]

still chewing on the reads list, not so impressed but don't know who else to vote, but, well...

I feel like she tried to stare into your soul

[Infinity 324]

I think prism is town atp

VOTE: johnny

[Infinity 324]

Mostly just because I feel like my gut read is probably based on prism exerting some level of control over the narrative in the game and I feel like that's decently likely something she'd do as town as well, and as I mentioned earlier she wasn't really trying to control the discussion at a key spot when she was under a lot of pressure. It's still possible that it was just correct to step back a bit as scum under that situation and she recognized that, but I kind of doubt that was the right situation to step back in. It's still a weak townread atm, maybe I'd get something out of reading a past scumgame of hers but I'm not as sure as she is that that'd be productive.

[Infinity 324]

Y'all have so much trust in each other idgi

If I get fooled once I need at least 3 games of recovery before I can go back to townreading that person again

[Infinity 324]

Wrt child the fact that she's looking at your tone in the shorter post vs the longer posts closely enough to notice that they feel different stands out to me

[Infinity 324]

Prism, I would go back to that one post where hectic felt very obviously nervous about you tunneling on him and point out that it seems unlikely that he would put a lot of effort into acting naturally but also let surface-level scummy nervousness show through, but you thought that post was very scummy, so /shrug

I mostly share ydrasse's feeling but with a more skeptical approach

[Infinity 324]

Normally as scum I'm worried about showing nervousness about people pushing me, because I'm like "it's super surface level scummy and someone's gonna point that out" but maybe I'm just projecting that.

[Infinity 324]

I guess my argument is that hectic would be unlikely to use that intentionally for fear of how it would be viewed by people other than you, but yeah maybe I'm just wrong about that.

[Infinity 324]

Is there a reason you've cared so much more about ydrasse's hectic read than mine which I believe I haven't really explained until now

[Infinity 324]

To me, Hectic not knowing how to fake that kind of frustration/annoyance would be akin to meeting an MLB player and watching them not know how to hold the bat.

Man I feel like if someone knows you well being able to fake that convincingly is more akin to knowing how to hit a nasty curveball

Could be overestimating this though

[Infinity 324]

My townread on luke is slightly weaker than prism's

[Infinity 324]

Prism my heart says you're town and not pocketing the whole lobby

I hope you're town

[Infinity 324]

That's probably a good idea

[Infinity 324]

@prism Though I feel like you were implying earlier that if I read one of your scumgames it would be apparent that you're town here? I highly doubt that anyway but did I misinterpret you

[Infinity 324]

I think you underestimate how sticky my gut reads are, but makes sense. Also I don't think you're extremely town but yeah.

[Infinity 324]

I think you underestimate how sticky my gut reads are, but makes sense. Also I don't think you're extremely town but yeah.

Do you have any town reads higher then Prism?

I have a lot of weak townreads this game, but you're a significantly stronger townread than prism and so is ydrasse I guess.

[Infinity 324]

Yep lol

[Infinity 324]

I think if johnny is scum it still makes sense for the game to play out the way it has, like he only has one partner what are they gonna do

[Infinity 324]

Why is the scum team letting a town block form so easily?

Probably because they're not in the townbloc and don't have enough influence to break it apart

That just happens sometimes

[Infinity 324]

few things are more painful than getting stood up by someone you care about more than they do

:(

[Infinity 324]

Hectic I'll be honest this scumread feels like you forced yourself to come up with a scumread

[Infinity 324]

@hectic I respond in 307

PEdit: yeah I don't think it's scummy I just don't think it's likely to be accurate

[Infinity 324]

<3 I appreciate you

[Infinity 324]

Pretty sure there are still flips

[Infinity 324]

I felt like asking ydrasse to vote someone and using that to sort her seems like something prism would do as town, and as scum the towncred she'd get from doing that is a bit questionable.

[Infinity 324]

your read is a bit questionable

Your slot is a bit questionable

Honestly I don't really care that much because early townreads give a lot of good info

[Infinity 324]

Johnny didn't towntell and everyone else did

[Infinity 324]

Yep :)

[Infinity 324]

Damn hope you feel better

[Infinity 324]

see here: Prism is talking about her reads and Infinity jumps on this with an agreement — but they're talking about different games. It doesn't seem like an actual evaluation happened here, just an opportunity to piggyback a read.

I don't understand how this is AI at all since I didn't agree with prism's original assessment of luke's meta, just the conclusion

[Infinity 324]

If you want to know my thought process you can ask. You don't seem super eager to engage here, which is fine with me but isn't going to help you sort me. I had a reason to TR luke at that time but it seems like you're calling me scum for not voicing it? But no one asked?

[Infinity 324]

how is it that you read it as might be scum, but not scummy?

The town mindset was too believable

[Infinity 324]

I don't know if all your answers will be found in further pages, direct engagement might be helpful to sort me but if that's not your style it's not your style.

[Infinity 324]

how do you judge that?

Short answer is that prism's words matched up with the emotions and actions she was showing, accounting for me not knowing her that well. Besides a couple posts (one of which I point out later), nothing stuck out to me as off tonally or anything.

You don't seem super eager to engage here, which is fine with me but isn't going to help you sort me.

Also where did this come from?

721 is not written in a way I can engage with, you don't go into specifics or anything.

PEdit: you asked me questions but didn't follow up in a way to continue the engagement.

[Infinity 324]

721 is not written in a way I can engage with, you don't go into specifics or anything

that's confusing because all I've done was quote specific posts

I still don't understand why exactly you thought that was scummy, and I still don't have a way of responding to that post

[Infinity 324]

Still feel like bold implies some amount of risk that wasn't really there

[Infinity 324]

I feel kinda bad but I still want to elim monkey

[Infinity 324]

I get it but also there's a day until deadline

[Infinity 324]

Your townflip means people are going to have to re-evaluate a lot of our townreads, which is going to be important for moving the game forward

[Infinity 324]

Your townflip means people are going to have to re-evaluate a lot of our townreads, which is going to be important for moving the game forward

If you're town, you have 8 townreads in a 9 player game. I think it's safe to say that you need to re-evaluate your townreads ASAP.

Sure, but that's pretty difficult because people aren't posting because everyone is just ok with your elim.

If you're town, you getting limmed gets rid of a scummy slot and helps us PoE the game.

[Infinity 324]

Infinity, your turn. Why am I scum?

Like prism, I've detailed my reasons for TRing a lot of other slots. You didn't go deeper into your reasons for scumreading my agreement with prism's TR on luke, which is likely because you don't think your reasons are very strong and don't want to get into an extended engagement about that. Luke's point about your slip was a pretty good one, and I feel that at least your strong desire to not being limmed is fake. I find it unlikely that town would have an attachment to maximizing the winrate of a game they just replaced into.

[Infinity 324]

everyone is just ok with your elim.

Infinity, there's your clue.

What is your one scumpartner going to do to stop your elim

[Infinity 324]

If only there was a way to verify that theory

*checks role PM*

Hmm, seems unlikely to me.

[Infinity 324]

There's way too many inactive slots and too many people who joined the counterwagon on prism for that to be a point that makes sense. Or your scumpartner is bussing for no reason. "Too many people are ok with this elim" is a weak argument when there are 3 scum, it's pretty much nonsense with only 2.

I meant scum-motivated not fake and you skipped an important word from my post

[Infinity 324]

you have 8 townreads. if it's not me, who is it?

7*

T3, child, or hectic probably

[Infinity 324]

The job of town is to find scum not just survive

[Infinity 324]

I just don't get why you're so much more emotionally attached to surviving than finding scum which you can do after you're dead

PEdit: how was I apologetic at all, prism said that too and idk how you can interpret my posting that way

[Infinity 324]

Scum can towntell too it's just less likely

[Infinity 324]

Yeah my intent was not at all to be apologetic on page 16, in fact I was pretty frustrated with her at the time.

[Infinity 324]

Towntell (n.): An action that town is more likely to perform than an anti-town faction.

(v.) To towntell.

[Infinity 324]

Ydrasse lol that's NAI you should know that

[Infinity 324]

Ydrasse lol that's NAI you should know that

It had actual bad vibes like it was supposed to be this quirky little snapback "gotcha!!!" which feels like you're writing off someone way too fast / confidently for you usually as town

It's odd that you think of me as a person who doesn't write people off fast/confidently

[Infinity 324]

To me it feels like monkey is criticizing all 6 of my townreads without knowing the reasoning behind any of them and I don't have a way to dig into any of them atm so it's pretty annoying

[Infinity 324]

Yes but what the fuck do you want me to do

[Infinity 324]

None of my PoE is postingggg how do you want me to sort them

[Infinity 324]

What back-to-back

[Infinity 324]

I think you're understanding correctly

I agree with prism that you're getting townier

PEdit: I feel like any other elim we'd get here would be easy/lazy

No one has good SRs

[Infinity 324]

skirting around the inactive slot all day is ?_?

Oh I just ISO'd ydrasse and I agree

[Infinity 324]

Ydrasse where are you getting the idea that you can read me

[Infinity 324]

I ISO'd them

I don't think there's enough info in the thread to find the scum in my townreads

[Infinity 324]

You could follow the hectic strategy of "I'll force myself to have 2 scumreads since there are 2 scum", but that's going to lead to a lot of false positives.

Yeah scum could be playing really well, if so we probably can't catch them yet. Direct engagement will help, a larger body of content will help

[Infinity 324]

Prism why couldn't fidget be scum trying to get towncred/pocket you by unvoting you, if monkey is town there's no need to be opportunistic

[Infinity 324]

UNVOTE:

[Infinity 324]

Hm are you that confident I'm town now?

[Infinity 324]

Yeah idk I think about mafia a lot when I'm not playing and have trouble voicing my thoughts so a lot of my process is not going to be in the thread

Idk who to elim

[Infinity 324]

Looks like fidget won't pick up her prod so we'll get an extension

Wanna see what a replacement has to say. I'm actually tempted to vote that slot atm

Child could be scum but I don't really feel it and I actually think their responses were quite towny

[Infinity 324]

Skitt basically johnny was a consensus PoE scumread and monkey replaced him and started being somewhat towny. Prism has gone back and forth for a lot of people especially me but she's probably not getting limmed here. Other lim options are child and I guess your slot/t3? I'd like to get your thoughts but I'm leaning towards voting monkey atp

[Infinity 324]

PoE and johnny usually gives me some towny signs when he's town

[Infinity 324]

I get it, he did post content though and I remember identifying johnny as town pretty quickly in the past

I've been here

Hectic has felt towny to me at a couple points earlier but is solidly in my PoE at this point and I've never seen his scumgame

[Infinity 324]

Skitt do you have a read on me?

[Infinity 324]

but the fact that you keep juggling back and forth kinda makes me think that you don't particularly care which ones gets flipped

and still asking a scumread to help flip another scumread is bizarre to me

Skitt, sorry, this reasoning feels bad

Of course he doesn't care which one gets flipped he SRs them both and doesn't have a strong preference

Asking a scumread to flip another scumread could definitely be town-motivated because you can see if they bus or you might just be wrong on one of the reads

Hectic could be scum but this reasoning is pretty weaksauce

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: skitter

[Infinity 324]

@infinity, what are your thoughts about hectic?

Meh he's in my PoE

[Infinity 324]

I'm uneasy about you sheeping me since I have so little confidence but ok

[Infinity 324]

Would you rather follow me on a prism vote?

No lol

[Infinity 324]

If monkey is scum he found the correct angle to approach this game really quickly, but maybe I'm overestimating the difficulty of realizing that the game is hard and going "idk the game is hard" believably.

[Infinity 324]

Sure, I think he executed it better than the average scum player probably would

[Infinity 324]

Yeah I'm interested in your thoughts there

[Infinity 324]

Meaning yeah, I'm townreading him

[Infinity 324]

Ydrasse what's your read on me

[Infinity 324]

Did you look into my soul?

[Infinity 324]

Lukewarm scumreading me this game is a huge scumtell.

This sort of confidence reads towny to me. If he's scum and luke has a history of correctly reading him, he probably wouldn't want to draw attention to that.

I also think scum might want to give more explanation to try to appear town, but that's a weaker reason.

Yeah. I think a scumtell of mine is actually giving reasoning when voting someone but that doesn't matter right now.

This feels like a genuine realization about their play that t3 made that keeps me out of wanting to put t3 in the PoE

My PoE is prism, johnny, fidget, maybe child

Ehh these reasons are kinda weak aren't they

[Infinity 324]

Did you look into my soul?

a bit

You can do better

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Sure

Everything in this game feels so meh :/

Including you skitt

Are you just not feeling it?

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Are you feeling any particular vibes this game

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Yeah

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The vibes don't come first for you?

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I feel like if you had any vibes at all when I pushed you on your reasoning being weak you'd go back on "idk vibes"

That's what I do at least

+ you're always chipper and happy to be playing mafia as town and you're just not that here

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I hope you feel better

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Why

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Idk I still feel like monkey is a decent wagon which is why I'm not super eager to compromise elsewhere in my PoE. Yeah hectic could be scum but I just don't really see why that's likely

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Hectic is in my PoE but I'd prefer skitt or monkey and I'm confident that monkey can happen today so I don't really see why I'd compromise on hectic

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It's all so meh :/

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VOTE: monkey

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Ydrasse do you really believe you flipping scum in oka's game would have no effect on my read on you here

I wanted to vote you, your soul stare on me yesterday was really unimpressive but I buy your increased motivation today ig

PEdit: noraa it's ok no one can read me :)

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If prism is scum she did a great job of drawing attention to herself so she can either a. get eliminated or b. get townread and have people wonder why she's still alive by endgame. She also hardbussed her only buddy on d1. I don't think prism is scum

PEdit: ydrasse developed her scumrange a shitton recently

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Her play was a mirror of ydrasse's and ydrasse is probably town here since I feel like I'm playing that game all over again here with ydra.

This is towny I think

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I'm ok with that tbh

Tbh Johnny was a PoE suspect basically the whole day so there wasn't a clear point where the wagon started, but prism was pretty important in pushing it through when other were getting cold feet

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While I get that perspective, and really want a strong IC if we're wrong today, chances are we're both town and I think HEM flips scum and we solve that problem for you that way.

totally unbiased tl;dr vote hem or ydrasse they're both scum

child/t3 are great runnerups due to sparser posting but are absolutely not who we want as an IC if wrong

I think this back and forth is TvT and I am all the more determined to force through HEM.

Skitter is right that she doesn't go after Hectic here. High chance he tunnels her after flip and town is likely to listen to IC Hectic

Hectic's reaction is very inline with what I saw when I pushed him in Chara's Folly and I don't share the same concern about the compromise voting that Skitter does. Not only do I agree with his comment that him backing off of Child was town, but I think the last page was the most town he has been all game.

I made some last minute tennis plans so I am unlikely to really be around later. I strongly, strongly want HEM even though I think any of Ydrasse/T3/Child could potentially flip scum.

So settle for HEM.

This is the most confident, and I actually mean confident, I have been in a very long time.

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Noraa I don't know what to tell you, I felt prism's tone was manipulative too but I don't think her play actually makes sense at all for scum and if she's being manipulative she manipulated herself into a terrible spot.

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Noraa I'm gonna be honest, that doesn't really make much sense. Yes prism gave other options but she made it very clear that she was very confident in monkey and it was one of the motivating factors that led me to vote him, and thereby lukewarm as well. (I don't remember if luke actually voted monkey but he had pledged his vote to me). Tbh if prism was pushing hectic or skitter or maybe child it likely would've gone through. But even if not prism was widely TRed enough to survive a bit longer even if her associatives to monkey were really suspicious. It just wasn't worth it to bus there. I don't think prism will be or should be a consideration today

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Yeah noraa, reading up might help

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Prism was willow1

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Ok that's fair but also I'm confident lukewarm and prism are both town and I don't really feel like spending a long time rehashing why

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PRISM SLEEP

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<3

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Asking a scumread to flip another scumread could definitely be town-motivated because you can see if they bus or you might just be wrong on one of the reads

I never got a satisfactory response to this and you keep repeating that same point

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I don't believe that you can't possibly see that action as town motivated just because it doesn't happen that often if the logic of why town would do it makes perfect sense

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I'm pretty certain that if one of them is scum, it's hectic.

You didn't acknowledge my point about ydrasse getting way better as scum recently

Not saying she's scum here, still feel like it's skitt, but still. I feel like ydrasse is more likely than hectic

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Noraa you got better! No matter your alignment. I like this noraa

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I feel that, but I've hard townread scum!ydrasse too many times to share your feelings here

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I'm mad cause I feel like I had the right instincts but I just didn't trust them

And that was my only chance because the next time I play with scum!ydrasse she was way too towny for me to ever catch her

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Skitt is being way too survivalistic here

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Lol

I'm gonna wait

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Lol I'm not falling for that

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Nakata needs to go now but he’s noting mostly for his own convenience that he’s on page 15 in his catch up.

Nakata hopes everyone has a wonderful day, and encourages anyone who comes across a cat to say hello, they appreciate it.

I don't think I'll come across a cat today, but if you posted a picture I could say hello for you :)

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VOTE: skitter

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:)

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Yeah fast night

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Idk why scum-noraa doesnt scumread me yesterday

Doesn't scum!noraa want to keep you alive to mislim you later?

Will read tomorrow

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Do u think scum-her thinks she can prevent that from happening yesterday?

I mean not really, but what's exactly the advantage to voting there? Maybe she thinks makes her look better to be off the wagon

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@skitt There's no advantage to joining a wagon that's gonna go through either way

Idk maybe noraa went against the wagon just in case she can stop it? It's very low +/- EV either way

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hectic we do not peer pressure here you should know better

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Y'all convinced me that the ydrasse slot is town

I'm less confident that noraa is scum than y'all. I agree that child was towny but I'm not convinced that child was a newbie lol cause of how many alts who pretend to be new I've seen

I think scum!noraa would've had to improve her ability to replicate her towngame by quite a bit but town!noraa also would've had to improve a lot so. Also she's smoother than she usually is as town but I'm not quite sure how indicative that is.

T3 could be scum but ehh

I need to meta hectic but he feels town to me

I think it's too early to paranoia on prism

I'm not going to consider lukewarm being scum

[Infinity 324]

Who's scum?

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Lukewarm is townnnn