Open 815: Forest Fire Redux [Endgame]

[skitter30]

heya i gotta run some errands but i'll be back later this afternoon
if someone wants to give me a tldr that would be awesome because i'm not really up to speed and deadline is looming

[skitter30]

from what i read in the last page and a half i think prism and ydrasse are townie
gonna iso hem and johnny real quick

[skitter30]

johnny is like prototypical 'drops out of the game due to low activity' player
were people scumreading his slot because he was inactive or cuz of the content while he was here
because the former i'd argue it looks nai

[skitter30]

lowkey think HEM's annoyance is +town
it's not impossible to fake but like it does give me townvibes

what are people's thoughts on hectic
has infinity been posting

pedit he literally wasn't here tho, he had like 7 posts and seemed to be pre-occupied with family stuff and a funeral so meh. not a satisfying read for me

[skitter30]

child of fairies seems town

[skitter30]

HEM is actively scummy imo, should get to it on catchup.

wanna give a tldr? or point me in the right direction?
i iso'd him and i think his frustration at not getting to play is +town (albeit not impossible to fake) but i wouldn't inherently call it scummy

[skitter30]

Okay, I won't spam you with real-time questions when you're around then

Ydrasse
Infinity
Lukewarm
Prism
Fairy Child
Johnny
Fidget
T3

hmmmmmm not sure i like this

[skitter30]

I find Prism's recent content a lot townier essentially but I dunno if I should abandon previous reasons to scumread her

prism do you remember how everyone else was reading you at this stage?
or like what the common perception of your 1v1 was (who was getting more townread, etc)?

[skitter30]

ok so i think that hectic's reads are somewhat political:
if he's scum, there's a few different people in this game that he pretty much has to townread (ydrasse and infinity, maybe lukewarm but i don't have enough context on him so not sure)

i don't think that he wanted to scumread prism but upon prism scumreading him, he felt he needed to push back and scumread prism in turn. i think that prism seemed to have backed off a bit right before hectic townread her / dropped the scumread - i think he didn't actually want to push her and if she wasn't going to actively push him he felt safe sticking her back in a townbin and dropping the fight (which is indeed what seemed to have killed the momentum of the 1v1).

he's had a consistent pool of johnny-slot, t3, and fairy who i feel like he's trying to find reasons to push

i don't like his progressions here really

[skitter30]

i am willing to sheep Prism and Infinity. If they're voting me, I just won't vote at all. UNVOTE:

this basically reads to me like when infinity ceded her vote to me in deja vu >.>

[skitter30]

Fairy Child was very comprehensive and thorough in their responses to both Prism and I, but I find it scum-indicative to have that kind WIM to defend yourself but not put nearly as much effort into discussing other things that doesn't involve defending themselves (earlier in the game)

It's a more defensive mindset which can come from town but also comes from scum a whole lot of the time

like ?
feels like he's making up reasons to push them, fairy's iso is pretty townie esp. for someoen without a lot of recent experience

[skitter30]

Ydrasse and Monkey; you both seem cool with a Fairy Child vote, wanna help make that happen?

monkey's explicitly in his scumpool, no?

[skitter30]

This says nothing about the quality of their reads/strength as a player but given the scarcity of their posting, even under pressure and as an unclear, and that the bulk of their content has come almost entirely in the form of defense

I really, really don't want to have them as an IC.

i think this thought process (which prism seems to really care about) is very +town

[skitter30]

meh VOTE: hectic

[skitter30]

Skitt do you have a read on me?

very loosely + town but i haven't iso'd you yet, it's more just like based on what i'm seeing you write pop up in other people's isos

Not very surprised

i mean why am i wrong

[skitter30]

your reads just kinda don't change thoughout the whole game, other than prism, which seems to change based on how she's reading you

fairy + t3 + johnny are the easy/convenient scumreads for scum-you to have, so i'm a little suspect that those are your only scumreads rn, and those are the people you want to push

i also dislike how you're kinda pinging back and forth between monkey and fairy and how a couple of pages back you were trying to get monkey to vote fairy with you

pedit i don't know what you're talking abt >.>

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:

I intend to revote in an IRL day or two. It sounds like he has something more meaningful to think about right now.

Reading over your posts in the last few pages, I keep reading them while thinking you're town if that makes sense, I'm not sure if that's because I'm assuming you're probably town subconsciously and I'm wrong, or your recent posts are towny, but something something, I have no idea what I'm saying

I find Prism's recent content a lot townier essentially but I dunno if I should abandon previous reasons to scumread her

did this happen right upon coming back?

[skitter30]

hmmm it does maybe look like it lined up with ur vla
idk
i dn't like the overall progression really

[skitter30]

i also dislike how you're kinda pinging back and forth between monkey and fairy and how a couple of pages back you were trying to get monkey to vote fairy with you

i'm kinda interested in this
pedit feels a little like your trying to grab whatever votes you can to push a flip through, but it's odd to me that you'd reach out to someone who you're also actively scumreading
given that the wagons there were fairy/monkey tied (at 2 votes on a <24 hours deadline) it almost looks like you/monkey are partners and trying to get fairy over monkey
like idk why'd you ask monkey for a fairy vote and not the other way around
why are you asking for votes from your scumreads altogether


pedit oh sorry >.> pardon me while i catch up out of order
ok that makes it a little better

[skitter30]

This assumption about spotting the correct play has bitten me before.

ngl i was thinking this >.>

[skitter30]

i think he didn't actually want to push her and if she wasn't going to actively push him he felt safe sticking her back in a townbin

ok i retract this bit
but i stil lthink the initial scumread was omgus-based

[skitter30]

find monkey scummier for locktowning Prism/Infinity and wanting to completely sheep them

i just saw town-infinity do this like two weeks ago, so it's definitely a behavior that comes from town sometimes

[skitter30]

Why do I need to just force a push through as scum here if both wagons are town? There's no stakes here for me

i don't know
but the fact that you keep juggling back and forth kinda makes me think that you don't particularly care which ones gets flipped

and still asking a scumread to help flip another scumread is bizarre to me
i also kind think child of faiies is townie and that you're looking for reasons to scumread her

On "making up reads", I actively try and force myself to have scumreads as town and don't settle only having town and nullreads. That involves searching for motivation and digging deeper into everyone's ISOs, it has mixed results. I was kinda in that town and null only reads place for a while but then found stuff Fairy Child could be doing as scum, and the responses could have a scum-motivation.

also given that you're apparently doing this i still don't fully get why you're cycling between reads anyways? lik why was she your preferred flip given that you were looking for scumreads and found her?
idk this feels weird

pedit ok talk to u soon!

[skitter30]

that's fine
i still don't like it

[skitter30]

i don't really mind here cuz i'm just gonna get stumped and i can still drone on abt my theories

don't really know why you find that scummy tho

[skitter30]

Of course he doesn't care which one gets flipped he SRs them both and doesn't have a strong preference

Asking a scumread to flip another scumread could definitely be town-motivated because you can see if they bus or you might just be wrong on one of the reads

he's been scumreading the same three people all game
and i don't think he thinks they're teamed so like the second line is a bit strange to me

and i do think that asking a scumread to vote another scumread is bizarre
i also think that town-him would care mor which one gets flipped
and i also don't think town-him scumreads child of fairy in the first place

[skitter30]

there's like a day to deadline, i'm saying that this isn't the worst possible outcome

i don't pick a fight iwth hectic here as scum and i think he's scummy

also hectic doesn't stick with child because it's not a popular wagon and it seems liek there's much more appetite for monkey?

[skitter30]

like why would he stick with child as scum given that at least from what i've seen monkey is a lot more popular and the deadline is winding down
i think town-him actually has stronger feelings on one or the other than just 'eh whichever one i can get'

[skitter30]

I have no problem being the IC, if only that clears my slot from the PoE. I also don't think we should elim anyone if the only goal is to make them into an IC, especially if there's reason to think they're town. For example Prism is wrong about me now, so there's a lot of opportunities for her to be wrong in the future. Being confirmed doesn't mean you would suddenly have awesome reads that we can sheep.

i think this is +town

[skitter30]

i also think lukewarm is town

[skitter30]

I am adding add skitter to my list of people I am both suspicious of and think would make a good stump if they turn out to be town.

can you elaborate a bit on why you're suspicious of me?

[skitter30]

you're taking actively unpopular takes and are being p stubborn about them, and they're not going to particularly help you get a misflip

and idk do you think people *should* be scumreading you?

[skitter30]

trust me i absolutely don't have a firm grasp on anything >.>

that's not really what happened
i looked at some short iso's first and shared what i thought on them
i looked at hem and am not satisfied he's scum
a couple of people mentioned prism but i kinda liked what i saw so far
and then i looked at hectic and i realized i think he's scum, so i started pushing him

[skitter30]

johnny had like 7 posts, hem was pretty easy to read, and child also had like 30 posts.
prism and ydra i got townvibes from the page or two that i was in for
so i read hectic

i do indeed still need to read the other three slots, yes, but i do feel like i found a scumread and think it's important to share that

[skitter30]

also like there's a day to deadline, i think the fact that i found a scumread is honestly more important than fully ctching up
if i had like three days i would prioritize reading front to back but i don't
and as things come back up i'd read more

i also read the last ~8 pages or so

[skitter30]

like given the amt of time we have i think it's more important and valuable to hang out in real-time and discuss with people now than try to prioritize reading everything

[skitter30]

all's good.
if it helps i had also read the first like ~4 pages like two weeks ago or whenver this game started and had a smidgeon of a scumread on hectic from there, but kinda stopped reading at that point until like this afternoon
taht's what prompted me to focus on hectic
no idea if taht helps but :shrug:

[skitter30]

Are people townreading t3

[skitter30]

Idk i skimmed t3's iso and i'm kinda meh on him
Why are you guys townreading him

[skitter30]

i am more inclined to vote you than i am some other people

this feeling has receded since my last openwolf tirade to some degree but it still casts a shadow

Hmmmmm

[skitter30]

Ehh these reasons are kinda weak aren't they

They're ok but like not enuf that i would keep him out of a flip pool

[skitter30]

Newbies 2057 - he died n1
Newbie 2059 - repped in for another slot, i think i tunneled town-him a bit >.>

[skitter30]

Including you skitt

Are you just not feeling it?

Kinda trying to find something to latch on to

The hectic thing kinda felt like my entrypoint into the game but i didnt get so much engagement there

[skitter30]

Me?

[skitter30]

I dont think i've been here long enuf to really have vibes but i've been sharing my thoughts on various slots as i've had them

[skitter30]

Sometimes they do but i'm not in tune enuf with this game yet to really have any

[skitter30]

Like i can say:
Hectic feels sketchy
I like prism + you + lukewarm
Child of fairies feels town

That's what i got

[skitter30]

I'm having a kinda long and tiring day / couple of days and i dont feel very happy or chipper rn

And idk i dont feel like my reasoning on hectic is weak really. Like i feel like its stronger than vibes almost

If anything like t3/prism/you are vibes

[skitter30]

Right, my reads are horrendous if you are town, and I was never a good choice to sheep.

It's better to trust someone you think is town for sure and have a conversation with them, but people are acting like it's a good trade-off to giving up an miselim when you can just lim slots that you actually think is town

I think that the only person who said that was T3, when he was on board with voting for you.

I am actively suspicious of Prism, Hectic, and Skitter

Thanks

[skitter30]

Bad quote >.>

[skitter30]

I'm not at all confident that this is gonna flip scum >.>

[skitter30]

Ok i want to try to flip hectic tomorrow

[skitter30]

This games going to be something dumb like child/skitter i think

I read infinity’s soul just now

I dislike this, and why isnt hectic scum

[skitter30]

This games going to be something dumb like child/skitter i think

I read infinity’s soul just now

I dislike this, and why isnt hectic scum

early d1

Ok do u wanna elaborate or

No i dislike it because:
- i dont understand what changed ror infinity between last night and this morning
- think child is p townie and dont really get the scumreads there
- not sure why everyone is townreading hectic

[skitter30]

He absolutely was not a viable cw since i repped in

[skitter30]

I also dont loltry to push hectic as scum in this setup, its a ridiculous thing to do
(And for similar reasons i posit hectic's sr on prism was entirely omgus-y and he didnt actually want to push her to flip .... you gotta deal with a stumped strong town player and i dont think he actually wanted to realize that push yo a flip for that reason)

[skitter30]

his read progressionis good

No they really arent

[skitter30]

who’s the everyone that’s townreading him? why’s child so townie?

Uh nobody other than luke would entertain a hectic vote?

Fairy jas a level of nuance to their posting that i think is unlikely to be found in the iso of newish-scum
(And i also thing hectic should recognize that, esp since he:
A) understanda they would be new-ish scum
B) literally admitted to going fishing for scumreads and that he didnt inherently scumread them until he tried to find a scumread)

[skitter30]

like luke literally was like “we can counterwagon!” and infinity was like eh he could be but not as scummy as x and y

two off the top of my head that don’t tr

and then there goes t3 who’s unsure

Ok so maybe a bettee phrase would have been: despite the lack of the abundance of townreads hectic is mysteriously resistant to getting wagoned even tho there are people who profess to not townreading him

[skitter30]

Hey i'll be around after work
I'm very confident on prism town now and still sus of hectic, i still think his interactions around child/hem eod are sus

Prism i hope you feel better.

[skitter30]

hey i'm around now and reading through, hi noraa

[skitter30]

think hectics town for past reasons and also the flipflop onto hem without like any justification

uhhhhhh i think this is more likely to come from scum than town, no?

[skitter30]

why isn't hem town on this readslist?

Reason I think this is sus is because scum sometimes forget to include their partner when giving reads, and it's very odd he isn't included here after Infinity asks skitter for overall vibes

VOTE: skitter

honestly i don't remember why i didn't include him there but i think this is an incredibly poor reason to scumread me

also @ydrasse i very adamently believe that hectic was not a viable cw eod

i also think that it's even *more* sus that he flipflopped between child and hem given that hem flipped scum, and that asking hem (who he scumread) to join him on child looks incredibly partner-indicative. it's baffling to me why town would ask a scumread to join them on another scumread when it shouldn't matter to them which one gets flipped, but it makes an insane amount of sense for scum (hectic) to ask their partner (hem) to vote flipbait town when the partner is the biggest other viable wagon.

i also think the timing of flipping off of child onto hem is also sus given that it was obvious a child wagon wasn't happening at that point

[skitter30]

skitter scum I don't think pushes outside of the easy poe bit I might be wrong because she defended hem.
Child was on vla I'd ratherhear from them once it ends.
Leaving ydra.

scum-me does not defend hem there
or, more accurately, if i did, i would never then choose to start a lolpush on hectic of all people

scum-me would only defend hem if i was incredibly confident i could get a flip elsewhere, and if i was trying to get a flip elsewhere i wouldn't be picking hectic as my target

[skitter30]

If scum she's repped into a difficult position, I don't think making some wild "scum wouldn't do this" plays isn't out of her scumrange at all

If scum, she's trying to save monkey yesterday assuming he would be able to recover on future days and probably endgame with her

Why she decides to push me over Fairy Child or someone else is the question, since I was probably harder to push than maybe 2 or 3 slots in the game?

But it can be explained if scum!her thinks she can manage the push onto me since there's enough players

open

to the idea of me being scum, and after I flip, people argue scum!skitter wouldn't do that, she wouldn't want IC!Hectic to tunnel her etc etc

it's not out of my scumrange but it's not something i would do - my entire scumgame revolves around optics, and defending partner-hem looks incredibly awful in the event that he flips

you need a better explanation for why i push you over fairy child because pushing you doesn't make sense in the narrative that you're pushing me for and the bolded doesn't cut it

[skitter30]

think hectics town for past reasons and also the flipflop onto hem without like any justification

uhhhhhh i think this is more likely to come from scum than town, no?

Wouldn't scum either be trying to save their scum buddy, OR be trying to get town cred for their elimination?

Flip flopping without reason, does neither of those things.

Like, at the time you said

i think town-him actually has stronger feelings on one or the other than just 'eh whichever one i can get'

Wouldn't scum have a clear preference?

i mean he wanted other non-hem wagons and actively tried to get hem to join him on hem so ...

[skitter30]

monkey/johnny was one of his main scumreads all game (see readslists in 220, 362, 633, for example), and hectic admitted to basically looking for reasons to scumread child and that he wasn't inherently scumreading them before that (980)

yet at this stage i've highlighted below, upon HEM repping in and leading wagons (875), he actively wanted child, and was angling for HEM to join him on that wagon. 890 makes no sense coming from town there.

[2] humaneatingmonkey: Prism, Lukewarm
[2] Child of Fairies: T3, Hectic

leading wagons ^

I still prefer a Fairy Child vote

Monkey has some questionable moments like the "i promise you I'm town" + sharp turns on Prism and Infinity when he was originally okay with voting them - I don't agree at all with the only TvT or SvS stance for the Prism/Infinity interaction, not sure why scum can't be combative over such a stance, but doesn't necessarily make monkey scummy, he could just believe it.

Overall it's a ton of effort though and I lean town on other parts like the Fidget assessments

Basically a coin flip

johnny/hem is one of his main scumread and he's leaning child because ...

The responses themselves were

fine

but not explicitly towny

Ydrasse and Monkey; you both seem cool with a Fairy Child vote, wanna help make that happen?

asking his other main scumread to help him with a fairy child vote makes no sense ....

VOTE: monkey

changed my mind

and he switche back to monkey here. child is technically the leading wagon here (938) at 2 votes, but there's very little momentum towards child, and a lot of people want to vote HEM, and daedline is running down.
i actually don't think that switching is inherently scummy or townie, it's basically nai
but given the context that he a child wagon woudl be just about impossible to get through there, i think a vote switch is NAI and could come from either alignment. it should not be read as townie imo

[skitter30]

johnny/hem is one of his main scumread and he's leaning child because ...

eh this was a misstatement, at that precise moment in time he's waffling on HEM but i dislike how he qualifies it as 'basically a coinflip' but settles on wanting to vote the not-flipped-scum person

[skitter30]

but the clear perference for child is ~887 when there *was* potential room to change the leading wagons

[skitter30]

Realistically T3 is also town for jumping off Fairy Child ship and saying stuff like this about monkey, he just has far less normal content so it's hard to be completely confident

i mean in that exact vc you trying to *strengthen* the fairy child wagon is meant to be read as ...

[skitter30]

I think I'm being dumb.
VOTE: skitter

go on

[skitter30]

Skitter, when you get off of work do you mind tracking through more explicitly your thoughts from flip to your first post today?

i think i've elaborated on hectic
you i don't think bus HEM there + your interactions with him ~hammer and ~post hammer don't look partner-y so town

[skitter30]

i think noraa is probably town?

[skitter30]

Asking a scumread to flip another scumread could definitely be town-motivated because you can see if they bus or you might just be wrong on one of the reads

I never got a satisfactory response to this and you keep repeating that same point

i don't really feel like this is a thing that people actually do tho ...
and i'm repeating the point because i think it's important

[skitter30]

I feel like a feral cat was locked in my throat overnight, I drove 3 hours back home in 102F with no air conditioning, and this is what I came back to.

To say I am about to blow a gasket is an understatement and I will be back tomorrow.

oh no i hope you feel better soon :(

[skitter30]

i'm not saying it could *never* happen as town but i think that hte scum scenario given his overall progression is significantly more likely

[skitter30]

So, you had 1 person actively trying to pass a hectic wagon. 1 person Hectic was currently trying to kill. 3 people with Hectic in their Poe. 1 person flip flopping on hectic (but currently sitting town). And Ydra as a staunch anti-hectic wagon.

uh the posts you quoted basically show that hectic wasn't viable, two of the people with the most sway there weren't interested?

like:
you - yes
prism - says leans town
infinity - says in poe but like i don't think she would have actually voted
ydra - anti
hectic - obviously anti

child - unknown

unclear why t3 would move from johnny to hectic given that monkey had a lot more momentum

like it's technically possible but if both prism + ydrasse + hectic don't wnat it and infinity is inclined otherwise i'm relying on exactly HEM/you/child/t3/myself to get it through which is, uh, kinda unlikely

i don't know what child was thinking and i think t3 would stick with HEM. like relying on that exact group of people to push through a hectic wagon seems a little shoot-for-the-stars-y, if i wanted a cw i'm p sure like child/t3/whoever else prism was scumreading outside of HEM would be a lot easier

[skitter30]

like just because there are 5 technical possible votes doesn't mean that it was *likely* or *doable* given: deadline, child's activity, HEM's activity, and the overall inclination towards HEM by the people who were most active

like if i wanted to save HEM i'm not sure this would have been the smartest route to take ...

[skitter30]

You+Hem already had my vote. You would have only needed 2 more out of either child or the people who had Hectic listed in their poe.

like you're saying i'd need to get exactly t3 and child on a 36 hour deadline when child wasn't really active

or get infinity to join when she was obviously inclined otherwise

all while prism was arguing against it

like that's a pretty narrow path to actually getting what i'd want ...

[skitter30]

Skitt basically johnny was a consensus PoE scumread and monkey replaced him and started being somewhat towny. Prism has gone back and forth for a lot of people especially me but she's probably not getting limmed here. Other lim options are child and I guess your slot/t3? I'd like to get your thoughts but I'm leaning towards voting monkey atp

she literally says she wants to vote monkey right here
and doesn't mention hectic at all

[skitter30]

unclear why t3 would move from johnny to hectic given that monkey had a lot more momentum

And also, I wonder what could have possibly made you think that T3 might move over to Hectic.

hem is towntelling, but if hem is town then-

VOTE: hem
Limming a townread is better than no elim because we still have astump.

i don't know what your point is with this post, it seems like t3 wants hem more than hectic, which is what i'm saying

[skitter30]

I don't think you are going to be able to convince me that there was no way any one would think that hectic was a viable counterwagon, when I MYSELF THOUGHT THAT HECTIC WAS A VIABLE COUNTERWAGON.

it wasn't a viable counterwagon, i literally just showed it wasn't ...

[skitter30]

So whether or not you thought that Hectic was a viable wagon (which is an odd argument to make, seeing as how you pushed him. Why would you push for his elim, even as town, if you thought it was pointless?), given the game state, he was a reasonable counter wagon from my POV.

because i think he's scum ... >.>
i strongly disagree that he was viable at that point

[skitter30]

Are you saying that you see T3 saying that Hem is towntelling, and T3 calling Hem a town read, and you don't think that it is reasonable to think he can be swayed to vote someone else?

eh i misread that post when you quoted it. but either way i don't think he would have joined hectic unless he was literally tied with HEM

and my point is that i didn't think it was particularly viable at the time
i also wasn't expectingf for the hammer to happen overnight and was sort of expecting it to go closer to deadline
but i was pushign him because i thought he was scum, not because i thought it was a viable cw ...

[skitter30]

uh i think you're overestimating the likelihood of you're getting flipped rn
and the strength of my townread on you

and he's arguign that i thought that hectic was viable yesterday even though i was *saying* i didn't, and that i was trying to divert off of hem onto hectic

[skitter30]

i mean they both scumread me, this is obvious ...
why would you-town make a hem bus more likely?

[skitter30]

also i'm not sure i like your lukewarm take

[skitter30]

also means working back over Hectic

please do so
and happy you're feeling better!

[skitter30]

Currently, I am just arguing that her defense of "scum me would not think that Hectic was a viable counter wagon" does not make sense to me, because at the time I thought that he was a viable counter wagon.

well technically it's more
'if i were scum and wanted to save HEM i would have pushed an easier slot (cough child cough)'
and
'if i were scum and wanted to save HEM i would be pretty damn sure i would be able to prevent the scumflip before positioning myself in that direction given that the optics of arguing against the flipped scum wagon is pretty awful'

[skitter30]

I am surprised that when you reached "I think skitter is town" that you then decided the "town block isn't fully town and I'm 99.999% sure of it" Without first considering Hectic or Ydra

I mean i would put ydra in the townbloc
And i think some people would put hectic too (obviously over my objections, etc)

I dong think from her pov this is an entirely unreasonable conclusion (albeit i think she's too confident in it)

[skitter30]

I mean i'm not sure i townread ydra either

[skitter30]

I dont particularly scumread her, more that i'm just not confident she's town

[skitter30]

I was using townbloc more in the sense of 'group of people who are widely townread'

[skitter30]

I think I'm being dumb.
VOTE: skitter

go on

@t3

[skitter30]

Oh :/

[skitter30]

Uh you kinda did the same thing ...
Why is that something that you think is more likely to come from scum-me than town-me given from your pov its entirely possible for town to do that

[skitter30]

Uhhhhh i am incredibly unimpressed by this vote
You:
A) seemed to have replaced in with the notion that you wanted to vote me
B) are making up scenarios where i would look worse that i didnt even do (nor did you check if i did them or not), namely if i pushed t3 or not, as you said in the last paragraph of 1353
C) its unclear where your townreads are coming from (why are you even townreading hectic ????)
D) your fidget analysis is very surface level, you decide you dislike one post, and then ignore the rest of the slot's content

[skitter30]

Nakata wouldn’t mind eliminating skitter, but Nakata also thinks that if Nakata can TR skitter then there’s no reason not to eliminate Noraa first. Nakata will catch up soon!

Like how did you go from here to voting me, you didnt even try to townread me or look for reasons to townread me

Ans why settle on noraa, like why is she your second choice
This whole progression is, uh, not very good

[skitter30]

Also i think trying to read this slot ok fidget who isnt here vs me who is is a cop-out

[skitter30]

Meh actually it isnt as bad if you're only on p10 (namelu the bits abt focusing on fidget and not me) but i still think this is somewhat lazy

[skitter30]

Also i think trying to read this slot ok fidget who isnt here vs me who is is a cop-out

I mo longer think this is scummy but do think its an ineffective way of sorting

[skitter30]

Nakata is still reading up and is aware that he is perhaps confirmation biased. However Nakata mostly thinks that a number of players have towntold and that your predecessor was not very towny, plus you were off the D1 wagon which Nakata has seen you do as scum before when believing that your buddy is salvageable. Nakata needs to have more context, but given that you won’t be actually removed from the game if town, Nakata is mostly happy to go for what seems like the easy win and

to then let out dictate the lim tomorrow if Nakata is wrong on you.

Nakata doesn’t consider himself a premiere town player by any means, but Nakata feels that Occam’s razor is that you’re scum.

I would not have thought my buddy was salvageavle and if i did i would not have tried to push hectic, which wasnt really viable (no matter what lukewarm thinjs)

Defending my buddy via pushing someone who most likelu isnt going to get flipped somewhat defeats the purpose in the narrative you're proposing, no?

And if i ger hectic tomorrow i dont mind so much :shrug: but yeah i'm a little annoyed

[skitter30]

Also i think trying to read this slot ok fidget who isnt here vs me who is is a cop-out

Nakata is not convinced that this is a post made in good faith given that we are both aware that skitter30 is a very hard read. Nakata thinks that reading a player easier to read occupying the same slot makes a lot of sense, and thinks that skitter30 having a problem with this may be something required by alignment.

Contiunie reading

Also i dont know if we're both aware, i dont know who you are. Apparently you know me but expecting ke to know that when you repped in on an alt is kinda silly

[skitter30]

Anyway meeting now, later

[skitter30]

But yeah i'm going to hardpush hectic tomorrow fyi

[skitter30]

Skitt is being way too survivalistic here

No, i am not
I'm being p clear that i do not like this, but i'm not really trying to get out of it and am saving most of my 'you lot should listen to me more stuff' until tomorrow when I'm stumped

I will however point out that this wagon is going through way too easily and i am sus of both hectic's and nakata' involvement

Ok more meetings i'll be around after work

[skitter30]

very bright, so Nakata may be confused) then skitter30 is suggesting that Hectic is scummy due to resistance of people to voting him

No, that's not the crux of the argument, i was saying that if i wanted to save my buddy trying to flip someone who's ublikely to get flipped isnt very gelpful

I actualky havent argued for the resistance being ai in either direction

[skitter30]

There is literally one scum what do you mean your wagon is going through too easy lmao

Nakata is also coming off extremely town in their analysis here.

I mean one of u guys is p happy abt ut i'm sure

[skitter30]

Nakata appreciates the clarification. However, Nakata also thinks that skitter30 may have simply misread the gamestate. Nakata is aware that this is uncommon for skitter30, but is also aware that it does happen.

Uh, no. I'm p sure i did not
I'll quote it in a second but i went through all the slots last night and showed it functionally wasnt really viable

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

So, you had 1 person actively trying to pass a hectic wagon. 1 person Hectic was currently trying to kill. 3 people with Hectic in their Poe. 1 person flip flopping on hectic (but currently sitting town). And Ydra as a staunch anti-hectic wagon.

uh the posts you quoted basically show that hectic wasn't viable, two of the people with the most sway there weren't interested?

like:
you - yes
prism - says leans town
infinity - says in poe but like i don't think she would have actually voted
ydra - anti
hectic - obviously anti

child - unknown

unclear why t3 would move from johnny to hectic given that monkey had a lot more momentum

like it's technically possible but if both prism + ydrasse + hectic don't wnat it and infinity is inclined otherwise i'm relying on exactly HEM/you/child/t3/myself to get it through which is, uh, kinda unlikely

i don't know what child was thinking and i think t3 would stick with HEM. like relying on that exact group of people to push through a hectic wagon seems a little shoot-for-the-stars-y, if i wanted a cw i'm p sure like child/t3/whoever else prism was scumreading outside of HEM would be a lot easier

like just because there are 5 technical possible votes doesn't mean that it was *likely* or *doable* given: deadline, child's activity, HEM's activity, and the overall inclination towards HEM by the people who were most active

like if i wanted to save HEM i'm not sure this would have been the smartest route to take ...

You+Hem already had my vote. You would have only needed 2 more out of either child or the people who had Hectic listed in their poe.

like you're saying i'd need to get exactly t3 and child on a 36 hour deadline when child wasn't really active

or get infinity to join when she was obviously inclined otherwise

all while prism was arguing against it

like that's a pretty narrow path to actually getting what i'd want ...

[skitter30]

Nakata is also a little perplexed that skitter30 doesn’t seem to have re-evaluated after the person she supposedly thought was town flipped scum,

Also hem flipping scum supports my scum-hectic theory. It makes it more likely, not less likely, i'm not sure why you think i should be revaliating off of that

[skitter30]

Nakata disagrees that skitter30’s posting doesn’t feel survivalists and thinks that skitter30!town would have engaged with Nakata in a less confrontational way if skitter30 were town.

Sorry i shouldnt be so confrontational, i apologize

[skitter30]

I am not, see y'all tomorrow

[skitter30]

Can we at least do fast night plz

[skitter30]

Sigh
Fwiw i'm sus of both hectic and nakata

[skitter30]

Yeah fast night

LOCKTOWNNNNNNNNN SOUL MASON
it can't be coincidence.

I mean he just got to flip me, idk why he wouldnt

[skitter30]

Idk what you're trying to say

[skitter30]

Soooooooooooo
I still think its in hectic/nekata

I dont think its noraa

[skitter30]

Nakata disagrees that skitter30’s posting doesn’t feel survivalists and thinks that skitter30!town would have engaged with Nakata in a less confrontational way if skitter30 were town.

Sorry i shouldnt be so confrontational, i apologize

Nakata wanted to address that an apology is and was entirely unnecessary. Nakata wasn't upset by skitter30's approach to him, he just thought it was very scum!indicative for her, because Nakata's more typical experiences with skitter30 have involved her trying to sort slots that are maybe unclear to her through prodding them for motivations rather than what Nakata felt was a stronger response in this game than the typical to him. Nakata also felt skitter30 did feel very survivalistic and couldn't tell why should would present as strongly in that sense if she were town.

I think i was getting annoyed because the entire premise for me being scum would have necessitated me playing really, really, really badly, and i usually play scum a lot better than that

Trying to save hem would have had the exact outcome that actually happened (i.e. me flipping right after he did), and i would havd avoided that outcome as best as i could, even if it meant bussing him

Idk why scum-noraa doesnt scumread me yesterday

[skitter30]

Skitter I know I can only say so much about Hectic without rereading but the Nekata slot is so town I wanna scream

I still want you to reread hectic, yeah

[skitter30]

The most town thing Child did all game was unvote me after I ripped them a new one, and they completely disappeared at the end of day

The reads wall was also okay iirc but I had to explicitly fish it out of them and the rest was all incredibly defensive and scared play

I dont think that they were scared or defensive, and the read wall was p good
They had a fair amt of nuance for a newvie
And they said they repped out for being sick so 'disappearing' eod doesn't bother me

[skitter30]

Idk why scum-noraa doesnt scumread me yesterday

Doesn't scum!noraa want to keep you alive to mislim you later?

Will read tomorrow

I was inevitable yesterday, i dont see why she wouldnt join the bandwagon

[skitter30]

Nakata would like to extend his apologies to friend skitter30. As Nakata mentioned, he is not the sharpest mind and sometimes he makes mistakes.

Nakata understands if skitter30 is sceptical of him, because he admittedly would do exactly this if he were scum.

Nakata doesn't know if him saying this helps at all or if it makes things worse. Nakata does think he might have been slightly less likely to pursue skitter30 so openly if he were scum and knew that skitter30 would flip town, though.

Nakata also believes that this skitter30!flip strongly implies that scum did bus on D1. He still thinks that the Noraa slot is probably town, but is aware that he needs to do his due diligence. Nakata would now very much like to listen to skitter30's reasons to be suspect of Hectic, and Nakata also feels more uncomfortable with Prism. However, Nakata's gut instinct is still that T3 seemed like the 'worst' slot from D1 if skitter30 was town, and would like to rule out that solution being both simple and correct before letting paranoia take over too much on Prism or Hectic.

Nakata stills think Infinity 324 is very town, and that Lukewarm is strongly town. Nakata wants to re-examine both to be sure he's not trusting too much in a lazy tone read, but that the actions of both and how they've engaged in the thread are also towny.

Nakata is willing to sheep skitter30 today, even if it's on him, if skitter30 does not feel she will be able to shake her concerns by the end of the day and if skitter30 is likely to want Nakata dead tomorrow

, where said suspicion would likely be losing.

For the first bolded that's primarily my concern, yes. From my pov at least it looks like a very advantageous take for scum to have, especially since to me at least it looked like you hopped on way too fast and too easily

I wrote a lot about hectic and why i think his play eod1 was partner-indicative, i can requote if necesaary, and would appreciate if other people at least read it over and consider it

For the second bolded, i am at least willing to admit that most of my suspicions stem from how you hopped on me yesterday, and that you're probably not my first choice. Or even probably my first pick in elo
Bur like from my pov your vote on me looked p oppurtunistic

[skitter30]

Like I am someone who prides themselves on having a keen eye for what the best scumplay is and that isn't even average replacing into that slot and scumreading you is actively terrible

On the other hand she has meta that leans into scumreading two locktown slots+immediately townread her friends with zero trouble or hesitation despite claiming to have not read the game at all. But also her slot was scum. And when it wasn't I was obviously scum instead. Hadn't read the game though.

Tbf i dont have like any meta whatsoever

But like i think scum would do exactly what you describe in the first part ...

[skitter30]

Idk why scum-noraa doesnt scumread me yesterday

Doesn't scum!noraa want to keep you alive to mislim you later?

Will read tomorrow

Do u think scum-her thinks she can prevent that from happening yesterday?

[skitter30]

Upon rereading child doesnt have the best johnny associatives

[skitter30]

Upon rereading child doesnt have the best johnny associatives

But all in all i think they're townie: i think they're sincere, nuanced, thinking about their reads, and approaching the game from a townie pov

[skitter30]

Plz feel better soon and take it easy
But lets just make sure we actually reevaluate hectic today before the day ends ...

[skitter30]

Idk why scum-noraa doesnt scumread me yesterday

Doesn't scum!noraa want to keep you alive to mislim you later?

Will read tomorrow

So why would she even think this then ...

I dont see why she wouldnt support an easy wagon as scum

[skitter30]

Sorry, skitts

Strongly think your pool of Nakata/me is town though

Still think ur scummy tho >.>

[skitter30]

Ok but i still think you had a lot of partner-indicative interactions with hem and i'm having a very hard time getting over that

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

monkey/johnny was one of his main scumreads all game (see readslists in 220, 362, 633, for example), and hectic admitted to basically looking for reasons to scumread child and that he wasn't inherently scumreading them before that (980)

yet at this stage i've highlighted below, upon HEM repping in and leading wagons (875), he actively wanted child, and was angling for HEM to join him on that wagon. 890 makes no sense coming from town there.

[2] humaneatingmonkey: Prism, Lukewarm
[2] Child of Fairies: T3, Hectic

leading wagons ^

I still prefer a Fairy Child vote

Monkey has some questionable moments like the "i promise you I'm town" + sharp turns on Prism and Infinity when he was originally okay with voting them - I don't agree at all with the only TvT or SvS stance for the Prism/Infinity interaction, not sure why scum can't be combative over such a stance, but doesn't necessarily make monkey scummy, he could just believe it.

Overall it's a ton of effort though and I lean town on other parts like the Fidget assessments

Basically a coin flip

johnny/hem is one of his main scumread and he's leaning child because ...

The responses themselves were

fine

but not explicitly towny

Ydrasse and Monkey; you both seem cool with a Fairy Child vote, wanna help make that happen?

asking his other main scumread to help him with a fairy child vote makes no sense ....

VOTE: monkey

changed my mind

and he switche back to monkey here. child is technically the leading wagon here (938) at 2 votes, but there's very little momentum towards child, and a lot of people want to vote HEM, and daedline is running down.
i actually don't think that switching is inherently scummy or townie, it's basically nai
but given the context that he a child wagon woudl be just about impossible to get through there, i think a vote switch is NAI and could come from either alignment. it should not be read as townie imo

i also dislike how you're kinda pinging back and forth between monkey and fairy and how a couple of pages back you were trying to get monkey to vote fairy with you

i'm kinda interested in this
pedit feels a little like your trying to grab whatever votes you can to push a flip through, but it's odd to me that you'd reach out to someone who you're also actively scumreading
given that the wagons there were fairy/monkey tied (at 2 votes on a <24 hours deadline) it almost looks like you/monkey are partners and trying to get fairy over monkey
like idk why'd you ask monkey for a fairy vote and not the other way around
why are you asking for votes from your scumreads altogether


pedit oh sorry >.> pardon me while i catch up out of order
ok that makes it a little better

These ^

[skitter30]

Ydrasse and hectic's conversations make me think they're both the same alignment which is impossible if they are scum so that means they are probably both town? I think if there's scum, it's hectic but I'm not revealing the reason yet otherwise I'll get tunneled. I should have a solid read on infinity bc she's my soul mason but I don't and that's weirding me tf out. Like she's being strange. Idk I'll wait some more. I should be able to read her >:(

Prism feels scummy????? Why do people townread her? Every single one of her posts reminds me of Cabd in that one game where he was deacon blues that cakey hosted.
Lukewarm is pretty eh. He's contributing a lot less to the game than when I last saw him. I'll set him to the side because Prism is so much scummier. Literally why/does anyone townread Prism?

Enters scumreading the two most consensus-town slots in the game, classic Noraa. Want to say it's towny and reminiscent of her scumreading Oka in Dark Waltz

Also ???
And why isnt it t3???

[skitter30]

maybe i'm horribly tunneled >.>

[skitter30]

even if hectic and nekata are town i'm not sure i buy noraa-scum tho

[skitter30]

lukewarm is very, very, very town tho

[skitter30]

i think you made some very cogent points there and my understanding of how likely child was to go through was mistaken
sorry for derailing eveyrone >.>

i'm still not 100% sure why ydra was townread so strongly tho

[skitter30]

are people townreading infinity

[skitter30]

Fwiw i am someehat suspicous of t3

[skitter30]

>.>

[skitter30]

Gg everyone
My reads wsre horrible, thanks for the carry

Thanks mc for modding