Open 815: Forest Fire Redux [Endgame]

[Hectic]

Prism reads like newbtown. Already townreading Ydrasse's tree enthusiasm

Infinity's yay was kinda weird, could be a TMI LAMIST IIoA EBWOP. I'd vote her but don't wanna L-1 this early

[Hectic]

Ydrasse is scum when obvtown

[Hectic]

You wouldn't dare

[Hectic]

I love this setup because I don't feel bad getting voted out any phase other than LyLo, because you can always just solve from the roots and mount a comeback. Probably feels horrible for scum though (sorry)

[Hectic]

Infinity's yay was kinda weird

If I wrote it as YaY would it make more sense

...nevermind

Oh, Yeet all Ydrasses? That actually does make it better lol

[Hectic]

I'm not really thrilled with Ydrasse's selection. It was made to pressure her to vote somewhere, I had to prod her further by making the comment about my nails, and the vote wound up on someone she just watched get in her own head/buckle to pressure in another game

as town

. The stakes aren't really comparable yet but I found it a lackluster choice.

Which game is that? Ydrasse likes to obvscum a little on the side because it's fashionable nowadays

[Hectic]

I love your avatar, Lukewarm

VOTE: Fidget

Requesting a 1v1. Think the "nyah" could be setting up for a future discredit down the line

[Hectic]

It's because I'm usually playing on secret alts, you're seeing me in my rare form in my unnatural habitat

[Hectic]

What'd you call me

[Hectic]

I was unwnd, Egix, and Something_Smart in your games. Was hoping to keep those secret but ah well, just keep it within this game. Otherwise, no

[Hectic]

I love your avatar, Lukewarm

VOTE: Fidget

Requesting a 1v1. Think the "nyah" could be setting up for a future discredit down the line

damn you're good

i accept

Go on then,

attack

[Hectic]

It was a hydra of two of my alts so it was allowed. Mod just got confused and counted my votes twice

[Hectic]

Okay, I gotta go

V/LA until the 9th

[Hectic]

Spoiler: you have

[Hectic]

(to Johnny)

[Hectic]

It was a hydra of two of my alts so it was allowed. Mod just got confused and counted my votes twice

Okay, I guess I can believe that. I won't report you then.

However, I am sad to inform you that I will not be returning to your pocket, because I am now in Infinity's

This seems like a pocketing pyramid scheme you got going here btw. People think they're pocketing you but in actuality you're the one doing the deep pocketing at the very top. I think your lightheartedness is +town though, you'd have to be reasonably comfortable as scum

[Hectic]

he's giving me a fighting chance, he knows i cant actually toxic 1v1

You haven't even done a kodak moment thus far, that's either scum or town intentionally playing poorly

Lukewarm scumreading me this game is a huge scumtell.

How so?

[Hectic]

Wait, what are you even talking about. I think I fished up some bait

VOTE: Child of Fairies

[Hectic]

I have townpings from all of Ydrasse/Prism/Infinity/Lukewarm, but those are the most active players other than myself so maybe I really am a noob

Ydrasse - Quick read drops while interacting in real-time is +town for her, the declaration of rolling town at the start, and her threats of tree haunting I all find towny

Infinity - The "Ydrasse might actually be scum" followed by the paragraph on her were towny

Prism - Lot of analysis and some meta. Good content but nothing I explicitly townrwad and that isn't fakeable for her. Tone is notably different but she says she's trying a different approach. Probably weakest townread on here

Lukewarm - Relaxed and easygoing attitude is +town

[Hectic]

So, why am I being voted for for being one of like three people to joke about a guy declaring a 1v1 and then declaring v/la right after that?

I don't think your joking about the 1v1 was bad, but this defense is just bad ^ VOTE: Child of Fairies

VOTE: T3

Framing this as a defense rather than a question is somewhat odd

[Hectic]

Infinity, do you struggle with marathon settings just as scum or both alignments?

[Hectic]

Okay, I won't spam you with real-time questions when you're around then

Ydrasse
Infinity
Lukewarm
Prism
Fairy Child
Johnny
Fidget
T3

[Hectic]

I meant that it'd be a lot more useful for sorting you with them if you only struggled with marathons as scum

[Hectic]

It's a completely different kind of format, a lot closer to irl mafia where you don't have time to carefully plot what you're gonna say and have to think on the spot, harder to be genuine basically

The secret is to simulate a game in your head where you're town and the others could be anything posting exactly what they are in the thread. Then, you act extremely confident and say things like "this always flips scum" or "Lukewarm or I die today" and you get free townreads

[Hectic]

That's true, you are capable of faking tone as scum. I just remembered you scumread me for the opposite reason in Undertale lol, that I didn't notice your tone shift (despite the Flying Scumsman game existing). I think this game it's a little more formal and almost stilted, though that isn't quite the right word for it, that's be a more accurate description and why it's a factor in my mind

I townlean you for the sorting, but I know you have a wide scumrange

[Hectic]

Fidget/Johnny are null

Infinity is largely meta based. Wasn't she town in that game?

[Hectic]

I townlean you for the sorting, but

I know you have a wide scumrange

Given that Scumsman-the only game you have played with scum Prism-doesn't appear on your mind, what are you thinking of here?

I was thinking of that game + your servant ruler cameo

[Hectic]

Pretty sure it was the first line where you declared yourself as everyone's ruler

[Hectic]

Prism, you always manage to find some way to think I'm scummy based on me meta reading you, so caution please if town

I don't account for everything simualtenously and selective thinking happens

[Hectic]

Unbelievable

[Hectic]

You don't understand the dark history Prism and I have, Infinity. We were both town in Chara's Folly and her 100 page long push still keeps me up at night

@Prism: The almost annoyance at being voted for something 2 others did, scum would probably hide it

[Hectic]

Prism - Lot of analysis and some meta. Good content but nothing I explicitly townrwad and that isn't fakeable for her. Tone is notably different but she says she's trying a different approach. Probably weakest townread on here

I don't buy this.

You have clearly seen me fake the freewheeling, joking tone (in the vein of non-tilted Costello or me at my most lighthearted in Chara's Folly) in Flying Scumsman. You have seen this sort of intentionality and sharper focus repeatedly, dating back to your first experience with me on Replica, continuing through Folly, with flashes of it in Binding of Isaac.

I have repeatedly done things to sort players both actively and preemptively. I find it unlikely that these take a backseat in your mind in favor of tone.

Not sure why you got the impression in the first place that tone was the basis of my read. The point I made was that it wasn't affecting my read either way, it was different. I feel stupid following that line of questioning on this premise now

Is your vote on me entirely based on this tone thing, or anything else, Prism?

[Hectic]

did somebody mention

chara's folly

in june 2021

it's like everyone involved left a piece of themselves in that game and has never truly managed to fully move on

That game really had it all

Btw MURDERCAT gave me the option to be town or scum this game as part of a favour. I would've loved to be scum in this playerlist but since I'm strapped for time I chose town

[Hectic]

Hey, it just happened to line up this time. I'll use random.org next time to look anti-consensus

Do you have any thoughts on Lukewarm, Fidget?

[Hectic]

Do you think I'm a more nervous player as scum, Prism?

[Hectic]

Found where it came up previously

You were townreading me there, here you scumread me

You don't think there'd be a difference in my reaction?

[Hectic]

lol I like the confidence honestly

I've never been scum against you so I don't know for sure but I probably would be wary of you since when you scumread me you go in hard. I usually fake confidence and try not to appear nervous under pressure as scum though



I

[Hectic]

VOTE: Prism

Mm, I don't think you disregard the differences in context as easily as that I think there's a clear difference between someone reacting from.being hard townread - where being jokey is a lot more natural, and being hard scumread and pressured, where you're in a comoeltley different mindset.

Attributing one to town and the other to scum, and not considering a NAI difference is soemthing I find unrealistic from the mighty Replica/Costello/Servant RULER

I also kinda think you got better at reading me after Binding of Isaac mafia, and this push almost feels like a simulated version of your previous pushes on me (as town). Maybe I'm looking through OMGUS-tinted glasses right now, but I see the scenario where scum!Prism recognises town!Hectic always hard townreads her when she pushes him and wants to replicate that

[Hectic]

Okay yeah w/ 190 this vote stays unless I have to compromise elsewhere

Like seriously, you're this confident despite knowing you've been horribly wrong on me for an extended period of time before?

Hmhmhm

[Hectic]

Meh, I don't think they're comparable still, considering you haven't seen me react to being hard scumread by you since Chara's Folly as either alignment. Don't like it doesn't change your mind at all and you say you wouldn't move your vote unless it was to compromise

This much confidence this early though? I don't think I have

[Hectic]

Infinity, you should help me duel Prism rather than keeping your vote in the waiting room

[Hectic]

That's the feeling I was trying to articulate when I said her content was good but nothing I'd townread her for

I scumread her for reasons largely based on previous experience now though

[Hectic]

Prism have you seen hectic/ydrasse play together before?

Why did you ask this btw?

[Hectic]

Cool, that's what I suspected

Like Infinity even more for town now

[Hectic]

That's the feeling I was trying to articulate when I said her content was good but nothing I'd townread her for

I scumread her for reasons largely based on previous experience now though

You don't seem particularly interested in any of:

A) The explanation for exactly how I read you correctly in Binding of Isaac, which you can freely crosscheck
B) The blatant reuse of the tactic you're proposing (which I pre-emptively came up with before ever scumreading you as town, by the way)
C) Engaging in a good-faith conversation on the difference rather than using different context as the end-all shield of which I cannot make a guess around

This reads like you realized things were getting worse before they got better and pivoted accordingly.

A) There hasn't been enough time in the game for progressions to happen
B) Chara's Folly happened after Flying Scumsman, I hard townread you there as you pushed me. That's an indication I'll continue to do it despite that scumblip in Scumsman. I think that would encourage you more than discourage on such a tactic
C) The point was that it doesn't justify a "very scummy" label

[Hectic]

I'm feeling the hyper readlists this game, I wanna see how they evolve over time

Infinity 324
Ydrasse
Fidget
T3
Lukewarm
Fairy Child
Johnny
Prism

[Hectic]

I don't really understand the point you're making

You scumread me in Scumsman as scum = I townread you
You scumread me in Folly as town = I townread you

I don't think that dissuades you from pushing me again given Folly happened after. I'm not saying this a standard go-to strat of yours, but it's certainly possible scum!you sees it as a valuable investment given past history

If you're saying you wouldn't bring this to my attention as scum, you clearly did with the impression it means you're less likely to do it, and see it as something that helps your case

[Hectic]

lol what, I don't feel desperate at all, I'm trying to be as articulate as possible

Yes, sure, I acknowledge that you're 2/3 on reading me, since Scumsman is clouding my view. I don't think it changes my point or read

[Hectic]

A) There hasn't been enough time in the game for progressions to happen

Right, so the bar in 194 is garbage.

B) Chara's Folly happened after Flying Scumsman, I hard townread you there as you pushed me. That's an indication I'll continue to do it despite that scumblip in Scumsman. I think that would encourage you more than discourage on such a tactic

I literally had to draw your attention to the fact that Folly was the only game I did this and that I was scum in Scumsman. I was the one that drew your attention to both of these games and that the trend you gave for Prism-town was incorrect.

I was the one that went back and found the context, and split the hairs over it preemptively with my analysis of it, only to have you essentially go "Well it's different so none of it matters why read into it"

This attention allocating thing is what made me think that might be the point you're making, that you wouldn't draw my attention to it as scum, that's my I addressed it just in case

[Hectic]

I think I scumlean Prism, but wouldn't bet my life on it

[Hectic]

Sigh, the difference doesn't mean it shouldn't matter, it means it should matter less and affect your initial take of "very scummy", rather than how you handled it which is not have it impact your take whatsoever

I have no idea what you mean by the last line. You admit you're scumreading me as an instrument to be townread?

[Hectic]

Strange that you say "I am scumreading you" rather than "I would be scumreading you"

Scumslip??×?@,#£¥×*÷

Sadly probably nai, scumslips like that are a myth for the most part but a man can dream. I think I'm all 1v1ed out for today, we can continue our dance another time

[Hectic]

@hectic, what part of this makes you scumlean Prism.

She very quickly put herself into a strong 1v1 with you, and I am not sure why scum!prism would have shown up and chosen violence against you this early.

I have not looked at any of the other games you have mentioned, but did their scum read of you in those other games come out this aggressive, this early?

She's scumread me twice before (once as scum, once as town), and was a universal townread for those respective games, while also being townread from me.

The thing that bothered me most from our interaction was that it almost felt like no matter what I was writing, or what reasons I was giving, Prism was finding a way to scumread it - whether it be I'm nervous/desperate/my read on her isn't legit etc, I felt it was forced and that's what gives me the feeling her read is fake. HOWEVER, I don't think scum!Prism would actually enter this game with the

goal

of scumreading me as some amazing strat, but I do think she'd happily take the opportunity if she thought I looked scummy enough to justify it.

I think you were the bird in kpop? I thought you were Professor Mafia but that was just some cheating shit

lol yeah I was Staarling :>

I was also NANDOR THE RELENTLESS from that Prof. Mafia game (they would call me Nandor the Relentless because I would never relent)

[Hectic]

Not interested in voting Hectic or Prism.

Would consider voting Fidget or maybe even Faeries for being such spectators during the 1v1

T3, Infinity and Luke looked like they were trying to sort through it, we'll call them townleans

Ydrasse null

Decent observation but our 1v1 was very meta dependent so I can understand why Fidget and the Fairy Child didn't have much to add. I actually found Lukewarm dipping from the thread shortly after it happened more suspicious over the other two stayed to post about other things. Possible mafia leaves not wanting to get involved and seeing how it goes (if it's TvT)

Hectic's clap back with (partly) BoP reasoning also seemed like a stretch which tipped the scales for me thinking maybe it's more likely one is scum doing what they think town would do rather than actual town.

Yeah, that's not good reasoning, BoPing someone because they're wrong on me is silly when the sample size is 3 and she's 2/3

I would say the premise of my read is that feels forced, not confident on it but best I have right now

[Hectic]

I think I am leaning town T3 here, but now he has me paranoid by saying this

Lukewarm scumreading me this game is a huge scumtell.

In a - once he becomes aware of his scum meta tells, it is less useful - kind of way.

I find the paranoia in this post a little strange, I think it's a bit of a reach to link T3 talking about a tell of yours to him manipulating his own scummeta

Could you talk about why he appears to be your strongest town thus far, Lukewarm?

[Hectic]

Infinity 324
Fidget
Child of Fairies
T3
Ydrasse
JohnnyFarrar
---------
Lukewarm
Prism

I probably pulled the trigger too early on giving Ydrasse a townread tbh, need to stop falling for those vibes. She's closer to null after rereading. Dashes are the null line

[Hectic]

Giving you respect

Did you read the highly toxic 1v1 from earlier?

[Hectic]

Decent observation but our 1v1 was very meta dependent so I can understand why Fidget and the Fairy Child didn't have much to add. I actually found Lukewarm dipping from the thread shortly after it happened more suspicious over the other two stayed to post about other things. Possible mafia leaves not wanting to get involved and seeing how it goes (if it's TvT)

I am not sure what this is even referring to.

When did I supposedly dip from the thread, while Fidget and Fairy Child stayed and posted about other things?

It was the gap between 199 and 241

You stopped posting shortly after I voted for Prism, dip is assuming you're scum who tactically avoided it like some kind of tactical nuke

[Hectic]

yes

possible tvt but not sure on it, your reaction was town, unsure on prism but know she’s trying to be more concise which feels like it’s trimmed some of the stuff i rely on to read, holding off on scumread but “less town”

IC

[Hectic]

It's an assumption based on that being the only townlean you've outed so far I think, correct me if wrong

[Hectic]

Huh, you're right, it didn't feel like Fidget was absent for some reason, probably because she has a post on page 9 and you don't

Pedit: I'm not saying your read on T3 is strong, I'm saying it's your strongest read, even if it's weak. Do you think scum!me would gain something from falsely characterizing it that way?

[Hectic]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[Hectic]

Go on then, why don't you start sending some missiles in

[Hectic]

Go on then, why don't you start sending some missiles in

[Hectic]

Nope, but I like you digging into me to find out

Mind still explaining that T3 read anyway?

[Hectic]

Defibrillate the thread into something more interesting

[Hectic]

Okay, gotcha

pedit: sure, your vibe injections are appreciated anyway

[Hectic]

Infinity 324
Fidget
Lukewarm
Fidget
Child of Fairies
Ydrasse
JohnnyFarrar
T3
Prism

I looked over Lukewarm's marathon scum game in the meantime, and tone is a lot less confrontational/confidence than how he just interacted here

Pedit: I think T3 mentioning that is actually more scum-indicative than town-indicative, there's reason to hold that read close to the chest if he thinks there's actually any value to it

[Hectic]

Apparently town?

[Hectic]

You're locktown, I'm trying not to get you nightkilled

[Hectic]

Infinity 324
Fidget
Lukewarm
Fidget
Child of Fairies
Ydrasse
JohnnyFarrar
T3
Prism

I looked over Lukewarm's marathon scum game in the meantime, and tone is a lot less confrontational/confidence than how he just interacted here

Pedit: I think T3 mentioning that is actually more scum-indicative than town-indicative, there's reason to hold that read close to the chest if he thinks there's actually any value to it

You're reading me twice. Also, is your read list town at the middle or town at the top?

People let preemptive reads like that out of the bag all the time, though. Suboptimal play isn't always scummy.

It's coming across like Lukewarm is more likely town here for how comfortable he is, then.

What kind of monster would put town in the middle and scum on the edges? It's top -> bottom

Lukewarm was towny enough to probably eclipse you so I'd have you 3rd there

[Hectic]

The strategy of hard scumreading me if you think I'm you can get away with it? I think you do if you see the opportunity, I don't think your approach is similar to the way you did in Scumsman btw, there was a lot less interrogation there and more passive pushing, which points to the difference being town, but also means it's not an exact recycle

[Hectic]

Reading over your posts in the last few pages, I keep reading them while thinking you're town if that makes sense, I'm not sure if that's because I'm assuming you're probably town subconsciously and I'm wrong, or your recent posts are towny, but something something, I have no idea what I'm saying

I find Prism's recent content a lot townier essentially but I dunno if I should abandon previous reasons to scumread her

[Hectic]

Infinity 324
Fidget
Child of Fairies
T3
Ydrasse
JohnnyFarrar
---------
Lukewarm
Prism

I probably pulled the trigger too early on giving Ydrasse a townread tbh, need to stop falling for those vibes. She's closer to null after rereading. Dashes are the null line

The progression between here and the next readlist on Lukewarm seems towny. I played with prism in DEFCON so I'll look over her ISO there. At this point I don't scumread Prism by play in this game.

TOwn: Lukewarm, Fidet, Prism
Lean towm: Infinity
Null, Ydrasse, Child, Hectic
Scum: Johnny

Why am I null given the first post, T3?

[Hectic]

Putting aside the question of Hectic for a bit longer, my voting order would probably be Johnny, T3, Child.

Interesting that this is also my exact ordering right now after my catchup

[Hectic]

217 - Nicely packaged post with reasonable takes, almost

too

reasonable (/s... I think)

I gave townpoints to T3's 184 for Fidget's 195 but that's actually a lot townier for Fidget than it is T3

Lukewarm
Fidget
Infinity 324 - goes down a little because content is easier to fake than two above her
Ydrasse - goes up solely for 293
Child of Fairies
T3
JohnnyFarrar

Leaving Prism off because I simultaneously feel she's town and scum, but the number of times I nail scum early and then slowly move them up over the course of the game pains me, so this is the compromise

[Hectic]

217 should be 317

[Hectic]

@Fairy Child:

Are you can alt? If so, what's your level of experience on-site on the following tier list:

Never lied in your life
Fresh noob straight from Town of Salem
New to mafiascum
Couple of games on a 5 year old account
Alt of a regular user
Banned user
RadiantCowbells alt

[Hectic]

@Fairy Child:

Are you can alt? If so, what's your level of experience on-site on the following tier list:

Never lied in your life
Fresh noob straight from Town of Salem
New to mafiascum
Couple of games on a 5 year old account
Alt of a regular user
Banned user
RadiantCowbells alt

"Couple of games on a 5 year old account" is pretty accurate. I had an account here that I used for less than a year in 2018-2019, and I have some offsite experience from before that, but I wouldn't say I'm particularly experienced and this is my first mafia game in about 2 and a half years.

Cool, thanks

[Hectic]

I am curious as to why Johnny is the lowest for you, Hectic.

I don't really see anything about the "last few Prism pages are towny" that I should directly comment on. If you are curious about meta this is my summary of my last scumgame.

I really liked this take from Fidget, the calling it TvT too easily part - I thought the suspicion that Fidget had that it felt forced was a far more genuine reaction to the whole thing, since I did feel like we were going in circles towards the end

I will say that Johnny seemingly finding Hectic v. Prism obviously (or at least likely) TvT from their exchange was too easy, appearing somewhat like TMI to me. I also don't really get what criteria he used to judge Faerie and myself as "spectators" and therefore scummy? Whereas Ydrasse was considered absent and T3/Infy/Luke were genuine participants. Something I'd like to talk about when he gets back.

I might read that Prism-scum-guide at a later point

[Hectic]

No time today, I'll be back tomorrow at the earliest and 2 days from now at the latest

Send any urgent correspondence to my fax machine at 22114912121

[Hectic]

Cool, this is finally finished.

Hectic, please comment how you thought my aggressive pursuit of a scumread was scum-indicative.

Ha, and you tried to deny your identity

As to answer your question: I don't think you aggressively pursuing scumreads in general is a scum-indicative trait for you, that's not what I was implying earlier

Recent frustrated response to Infinity and expressing temptation to self-hammer reads as towny, reminds me of Binding of Isaac. Infinity also reads towny in this exchange

[Hectic]

Ydrasse on Page 16/17: Good thoughtspews, doesn't seem faked

Luke on Page 17: Scumreading Prism and putting her on L-1 despite townreading her earlier, pretty towny, think scum wouldn't blatantly be so opportunistic to vote the largest wagon they were previously scumreadings, reads as town pursuing a change in read

I have had enough of people actively getting in my way of trying to sort that slot.

If he's town and I'm scum let him have his own agency and place his bet rather than capitalizing on it while he's gone.

I do not want him crying that I was obviously town after I have already flipped.

The second line is strange, elaborate?

[Hectic]

half the game being vla....
UNVOTE: Johnny
I'm going to give this a reread.

Why unvote here?

TOwn: Lukewarm, Fidet, Prism
Lean towm: Infinity
Null, Ydrasse, Child, Hectic
Scum: Johnny

These past few pages have made prism a stronger townread for me.

I don't totally get the case against Prism.

Johhny, Faries, and Prism are my top 3 scum after a reread.

???? Your progressions baffle me

Could you explain the above and also this one?

[Hectic]

Fidget on Page 20: Reaffirming my townread on her

I look forward to it. Your current vote was already negligent last time you posted, now it is horrifically so.

I read nothing when I don't have time to post, you made it out fine though, just made the game more exciting

Lastly, I legitimately don't know what he's thinking with the confidence point given that he knew I was willow1, unless he just completely forgot Happy Face Mafia existed. He was never getting away with lying about that as scum and it clearly did not factor into his read on me at all as town.

I knew you were willow but I'd completely forgotten about that since dying in that game honestly

[Hectic]

i haven't been fooled by him yet that i can remember actually?

I've only rolled scum against you in marathons but I'm 3/3 I think, you're quick to block it from memory I see

Top of Page 23, mind's getting cloudy. Will finish up reading after a short break

[Hectic]

Good to be back in the trees

[Hectic]

Well, I read everything. All of Lukewarm, Fidget, Prism, Infinity, Ydrasse, Child are towny which is an interesting conundrum. There's even reason to think T3 is towny for the lack of care for progression and swinging his vote around and likely following his gut. Of those, I think Child is most likely to he scum for the way he was aggressively scumreading Prism, almost trying to appear as strong on the push, perhaps because he would think it looks towny, it read a little over the top, yet only listing Prism as a scumlean in his eventual readslist.

Lukewarm did a similar thing but it felt a lot more genuine, not sure why, probably because he fleshed out the reasons in which Prism could be manipulating using the self-hammer shenanigans. In fact, Fairy Child's eventual reason to scumleam Prism does borrow directly from Lukewarm's reasoning, although I'll check this after posting (on my phone)

Johnny's inactivity seems to be site wide but the easy TvT stance is probably a scummy enough thing to vote for this game

[Hectic]

This is actually incredibly annoying and I want it over with.

Hectic is wondering if a scum Prism tried, and failed, to get townread with the push on Hectic early, only to salvage it with the town posts about backing off and thinking about the rest of the game. I am suggesting to Hectic that he has it flipped: that getting scumread initially only to be townread for the backoff would have been the point from the start, and linked a game where I planned several similar sequences days or weeks in advance.

If you think this is absurd, then okay.

I'm sorry for any frustration I may have caused, and that maybe my brain's just being dumb here, but are you suggesting to Hectic that you're playing a similar game to your last scumgame? Because that game you linked for similarity is a scumgame. I can't tell if you're suggesting that you're playing the same and thus Hectic shouldn't townread you for this or you're playing different and that he should townread you for this.

I still feel like this line is something town wouldn't really do, though, and while you could probably argue that scum wouldn't either given how it's turned out, but I feel like scum has more reason to try this given the amount of confusion it's created, so...

VOTE: Prism

If I'm wrong and just bad at reading I will unvote, but this feels fine right now.

Hmhmhm, is this reasoning genuine... I think there's a lot more reason for scum not to do what Prism did than town, scum probably don't care about the incorrect reasoning, but there's reason for town to worry that it could come back to bite them down the line if the other party sees that, as Prism explains. I particularly don't like the "confusion created" line though, it's silly to assume Prism would post it to cause "confusion" in the thread

[Hectic]

And as for Prism, I quite literally say in the post you're quoting that I'm going to keep it short because it's not a post about Prism, and I even directly say "aside from what I've already said" at the start. I'd already made various posts on Prism and why I found her actions scummy and didn't feel the need to reiterate myself, so I only added what had happened since my most recent post about Prism, which was mostly her tilting and threatening to self-hammer.

Tone here also seems unreasonable defensive to Fidget's relatively neutral comment

VOTE: Fairy Child

[Hectic]

Not really a fan of Fairy Child's readlist either

Dislike how he randomly throws in the possibility of a Ydrasse/Prism scumteam, yet doesn't comment on why he would think this could be the case

Dislike how he says it's "interesting" that Fidget dislikes Lukewarm which is an unpopular opinion, yet fails to ascertain anything alignment indicative from it

Dislike the reasoning on Prism since the plan stated there doesn't really make sense? For scum!Prism to say she won't self-hammer herself is going against the whole point of linking a game where she did it as town in the first place, particularly when Infinity had unvoted due to it. Makes more sense if she says she won't while on L-1 since the question of why she isn't doing it while in that state might come up, but to do so after Infinity unvotes and puts her on L-2 invites her to revote and dispels trying to scare people from voting her by linking the game in the first place. That took a while to articulate but not sure what Fairy sees about this being a scum-motivated plan, seems surface level scummy to take this take

[Hectic]

Alright, I have a scumread now and feel much better

[Hectic]

T3 reads opportunistic scum to me, but since everybody else seems to be content to have him as a backburner read right now I don't see much of an incentive to try and push on him.

Lastly, I don't like this part. following everyone else's opinion rather than starting the push or trying to talk to others about it, this is also the second time this has been said, but he hasn't cared to ask talk more about it or ask Lukewarm about him who seems to have meta on him. I think this fits well into scum seeing something town is doing as scummy, and wanting to point that out, but being afraid to go beyond due to the consensus opinion not matching it

[Hectic]

Fidget's reaction to the 1v1 was towny imo

Luke is super towny

Hectic is towny

Ydrasse is lean town ig

T3 is somewhat towny

Ask me about these I'm too lazy to explain otherwise

Curious about the T3 read. I've never played before, so his (and Johnny's) style of "I'm just going to jump in and vote from time to time without explanation" doesn't really read town to me at face value.

I agree with the rest of your reads, though.

T3 and Johnny both feel less towny to me due to their "I'm just going to hop in, vote, and leave" gameplans but most people are townreading T3 and he might always be like this and Johnny's v/la and that might be impacting it so /shrug

Well, they do actually ask in the first post here, but Infinity doesn't respond and it isn't followed up on

[Hectic]

Hectic I'll be honest this scumread feels like you forced yourself to come up with a scumread

You had a similar read on me in scholarship when I scumread Andres, except you were scum there

That's just how it is when I force myself to delve into a game and try and find scum. I feel decent about it now though

[Hectic]

I mean I was definitely searching for it but it was built on already existing gut uneasiness from the slot, but ones I hadn't mentioned earlier since it was purely gut

[Hectic]

The arc is complete

[Hectic]

Who suggested that?

[Hectic]

This is actually incredibly annoying and I want it over with.

Hectic is wondering if a scum Prism tried, and failed, to get townread with the push on Hectic early, only to salvage it with the town posts about backing off and thinking about the rest of the game. I am suggesting to Hectic that he has it flipped: that getting scumread initially only to be townread for the backoff would have been the point from the start, and linked a game where I planned several similar sequences days or weeks in advance.

If you think this is absurd, then okay.

This post? I don't really have anything to comment on it, I can see it being a genuine take regardless of alignment, but probably less likely to come from scum admitting the plan from the start

[Hectic]

this is why i only vibe and don't try to give thoughts. lmao.

You mostly get townread when you give thoughts nowadays though

[Hectic]

So I'm actually on mini-vacation with some friends over this weekend. I know the timing sucks chain linked to a recent V/LA, but what can ya do. I likely won't have time to read anything again until Sunday

Apologies, promise I'm a lot more free after that though

[Hectic]

Welcome, monkey of Old

[Hectic]

I still prefer a Fairy Child vote

Monkey has some questionable moments like the "i promise you I'm town" + sharp turns on Prism and Infinity when he was originally okay with voting them - I don't agree at all with the only TvT or SvS stance for the Prism/Infinity interaction, not sure why scum can't be combative over such a stance, but doesn't necessarily make monkey scummy, he could just believe it.

Overall it's a ton of effort though and I lean town on other parts like the Fidget assessments

Basically a coin flip

[Hectic]

Fairy Child was very comprehensive and thorough in their responses to both Prism and I, but I find it scum-indicative to have that kind WIM to defend yourself but not put nearly as much effort into discussing other things that doesn't involve defending themselves (earlier in the game)

It's a more defensive mindset which can come from town but also comes from scum a whole lot of the time

[Hectic]

The responses themselves were

fine

but not explicitly towny

Ydrasse and Monkey; you both seem cool with a Fairy Child vote, wanna help make that happen?

[Hectic]

VOTE: hem
Limming a townread is better than no elim because we still have astump.

Not a fan of the mindset, lets just go through with this wagon that I town read instead of suggesting a different wagon

That's what makes it towny for T3

That's the perfect post to make if you're scum looking to get flashwagoned last minute

[Hectic]

oh, I didn't see you there, Lukewarm

It's because of that abyss underneath your hood, I'm not even sure if your head is just 2 yellow eyes suspended in open space

[Hectic]

Oh, really? Fidget lurking it out till replacement is very scum-indicative...

[Hectic]

Seems like it

[Hectic]

I thought it was too easy to find his frustrated tone towny, knowing he can certainly do that as scum. I think it might be in line for town!Ydrasse to think frustration=towny though

[Hectic]

skirting around the inactive slot all day is ?_?

Oh I just ISO'd ydrasse and I agree

If you wanna vote me i'll be an afk stump probably for a few days

My gospel will be to kill infinity

Ydrasse where are you getting the idea that you can read me

Ydrasse where are you getting the idea that you can read me

Openwolf

The spitefulness here seemed kinda towny

[Hectic]

When i was skimming earlier human felt town to me or maybe the frustration did because i don't have a better reason to really say the posts were towny, but that's a vibe i feel is too broad recently but idk, like them fighting off being elimmed or whatever and then luke replied and i was like "really feels like they're someone in a shitty situation"

I feel like I walked back the vote on child too early but after that list it wasn't feeling good but when they posted a bit more it became a tiny bit like "I could see it"

This is probably the scummiest post from her this game though

monkey would be in a shitty situation town or scum

the child read is also just weirdly worded and doesn't say much

[Hectic]

If you are town I hope you know that one of us is so wrong that it hurts and one of us is going to have to drag the other kicking and screaming to the finish line of voting scum and dear god I hope it's you

I'm ready for the journey, whether it takes 200 posts or 1500 with me posting papyrus lines of inspiration and you watching another round of Cats

[Hectic]

Do you expect her to stick her head in the sand and pretend those posts of mine never existed?

I'm don't know if it's AI for her to ignore them

[Hectic]

Prism, the fact that you said you found a 2/2 split on me promising that I'm town and only quoted a scum seems to me that you're trying real hard to make that into a scumtell when it's NAI at worst

On average that does make it a scumtell - 50% odds are much better than 23%

I don't like the shade thrown here regardless though, Prism made the stats clear anyway so it's not manipulating the facts

[Hectic]

I have no idea who the scum team is, but I think I would like to flip either hectic or prism, because I am worried about both of those slots, and I think that it would do a lot of good (for me at least) to know that I can trust one of them.

Imagine playing with skitter while not on a secret alt, feels weird

[Hectic]

Oops

Lukewarm, I'm interested to hear why you followed me onto Fairy Child if you had the idea you wanted to vote for Hectic/Prism

I think I'd vote monkey if not Fairy Child anyway

[Hectic]

I'm not sure whether to read the desperation and survivalism from monkey as scummy or towny

The more I think about it though, the more I dislike the stance to sheep Infinity/Prism and he's "100%" on those being town, I really don't see how that interaction the two had has to be TvT

[Hectic]

Fairy Child was very comprehensive and thorough in their responses to both Prism and I, but I find it scum-indicative to have that kind WIM to defend yourself but not put nearly as much effort into discussing other things that doesn't involve defending themselves (earlier in the game)

It's a more defensive mindset which can come from town but also comes from scum a whole lot of the time

I shared this concern with Child, which is why I pushed so much for breadth. I think the explanation in 317 is very plausible from someone with their described experience. I think the reads wall they gave was quite strong looking back at it now, both in context with what was posted at the time (see previous agreement with Infinity's reads) and with their description of my blowup with Infinity that was affirmed later. I don't see any glaringly obvious issues with the responses to the questions posed by yourself and Fidget, even if longwinded. I found 676 pretty town, and while there is some scum incentive to unvote in 716 there also...isn't much to gain, either. It's null at worst IMO.

This is what's swaying me on Fairy Child

If their stated experience is truthful, their play could very easily fit that as town

[Hectic]

VOTE: monkey

changed my mind

[Hectic]

No understand, give Binding of Isaac analogy please

[Hectic]

Why not Luxxana

[Hectic]

Not very surprised

[Hectic]

My reads aren't political, they're genuine, not sure how to tell you you're wrong

On "making up reads", I actively try and force myself to have scumreads as town and don't settle only having town and nullreads. That involves searching for motivation and digging deeper into everyone's ISOs, it has mixed results. I was kinda in that town and null only reads place for a while but then found stuff Fairy Child could be doing as scum, and the responses could have a scum-motivation. Prefer monkey over it them now anyway though

[Hectic]

You have a fantastic knack for scumreading me though, I'll give you that

Though I do count a game where you were scum

[Hectic]

ok so i think that hectic's reads are somewhat political:
if he's scum, there's a few different people in this game that he pretty much has to townread (ydrasse and infinity, maybe lukewarm but i don't have enough context on him so not sure)

i don't think that he wanted to scumread prism but upon prism scumreading him, he felt he needed to push back and scumread prism in turn. i think that prism seemed to have backed off a bit right before hectic townread her / dropped the scumread - i think he didn't actually want to push her and if she wasn't going to actively push him he felt safe sticking her back in a townbin and dropping the fight (which is indeed what seemed to have killed the momentum of the 1v1).

he's had a consistent pool of johnny-slot, t3, and fairy who i feel like he's trying to find reasons to push

i don't like his progressions here really

Regarding the Prism thing, are you accounting for the fact I was V/LA and gone for almost a week? I was scumleaning her before that, then after catching up on events, I found her towny. Additionally, Prism wad actually voting me again by the time I returned. What's political about that?

I think I'd be pressured to read Ydrasse correctly as scum, but don't feel that way about Infinity. Don't see how I'm "forced" to townread all of Ydrasse/Infinity/Lukewarm as scum

[Hectic]

your reads just kinda don't change thoughout the whole game, other than prism, which seems to change based on how she's reading you

fairy + t3 + johnny are the easy/convenient scumreads for scum-you to have, so i'm a little suspect that those are your only scumreads rn, and those are the people you want to push

i also dislike how you're kinda pinging back and forth between monkey and fairy and how a couple of pages back you were trying to get monkey to vote fairy with you

pedit i don't know what you're talking abt >.>

Except I have reasons to townread everyone else which I've detailed throughout the game, feel free to read those reasons and pick at them if you think a townread is too easy or fake. I recognise Johnny/Fairy were definitely the easy PoE reads but I'm not exclusive in this view - your slot, Prism, and others I think had the same view of those being bottom 2 for a large period of time, that's just what the gamestate was at

[Hectic]

Prism unvoted Johnny there, skitter

[Hectic]

i also dislike how you're kinda pinging back and forth between monkey and fairy and how a couple of pages back you were trying to get monkey to vote fairy with you

What exactly do you find scummy about this?

[Hectic]

I was mixed on monkey but still scumread Fairy at that point, skitter. I was asking monkey to vote who I believed was scum

Upon reevaluating I like what Prism said about Fairy and find monkey scummier for locktowning Prism/Infinity and wanting to completely sheep them

Why do I need to just force a push through as scum here if both wagons are town? There's no stakes here for me

If I'm scum with monkey, this play I've made where I've switched back to him when Fairy's on 2 or 3? votes including myself and monkey's on 1 would be counterproductive to pushing Fairy in the first place, wouldn't it?

[Hectic]

Honestly I thought me reevaluating and juggling between Fairy Child/monkey was the towniest I've been this game, so I'm dubious at how you're linking a scum motivation to that

[Hectic]

Town can definitely do it yeah, it's the surrounding circumstances of reasons to do it that I find to be fishy

[Hectic]

I'm out, will be back later

[Hectic]

my pool is basically skitter/child/t3 tho

Why you stealing my pool

[Hectic]

lowkey think HEM's annoyance is +town
it's not impossible to fake but like it does give me townvibes

what are people's thoughts on hectic
has infinity been posting

pedit he literally wasn't here tho, he had like 7 posts and seemed to be pre-occupied with family stuff and a funeral so meh. not a satisfying read for me

^hem town

I have no problem being the IC, if only that clears my slot from the PoE. I also don't think we should elim anyone if the only goal is to make them into an IC, especially if there's reason to think they're town. For example Prism is wrong about me now, so there's a lot of opportunities for her to be wrong in the future. Being confirmed doesn't mean you would suddenly have awesome reads that we can sheep.

i think this is +town

^hem town

johnny had like 7 posts, hem was pretty easy to read, and child also had like 30 posts.
prism and ydra i got townvibes from the page or two that i was in for
so i read hectic

i do indeed still need to read the other three slots, yes, but i do feel like i found a scumread and think it's important to share that

^hem

easy read

town

Like i can say:
Hectic feels sketchy
I like prism + you + lukewarm
Child of fairies feels town

That's what i got

why isn't hem town on this readslist?

Reason I think this is sus is because scum sometimes forget to include their partner when giving reads, and it's very odd he isn't included here after Infinity asks skitter for overall vibes

VOTE: skitter

[Hectic]

Infinity is even more clear to me for HEM interactions, monkey tried to reach out to her more than anyone else

[Hectic]

If scum she's repped into a difficult position, I don't think making some wild "scum wouldn't do this" plays isn't out of her scumrange at all

If scum, she's trying to save monkey yesterday assuming he would be able to recover on future days and probably endgame with her

Why she decides to push me over Fairy Child or someone else is the question, since I was probably harder to push than maybe 2 or 3 slots in the game? But it can be explained if scum!her thinks she can manage the push onto me since there's enough players

open

to the idea of me being scum, and after I flip, people argue scum!skitter wouldn't do that, she wouldn't want IC!Hectic to tunnel her etc etc

[Hectic]

Send me some of that money when you can

[Hectic]

monkey also seemed to take time out of his real life matters and opted to return to the thread and give a last bout of effort to save himself, which means it likely isn't a planned bus to set a deepwolf up (e.g: Prism), also makes it less likely to be Infinity who was third vote on the wagon

Looks like the plan was definitely to try and survive and I think scum is either off-wagon or the hammer in T3

[Hectic]

Ydrasse soft defended monkey but never opted to vote Fairy Child or pursue any other potential counters, I think she has a better plan than that as scum

[Hectic]

Vote Count 1.13

[2] humaneatingmonkey: Prism, Lukewarm
[2] Child of Fairies: T3, Hectic
[0] Hectic:
[0] Infinity 324:
[0] Prism:
[0] Fidget:
[0] T3:
[0] Ydrasse:
[0] Lukewarm:

Not voting: Fidget, Ydrasse, Child of Fairies, Infinity 324, humaneatingmonkey

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline expires in

(expired on 2021-06-13 21:58:45).

Mod Notes:
- If Fidget fails to pick up her prod the deadline will be extended another 24 hours after replacement

hem is towntelling, but if hem is town then-

VOTE: hem
Limming a townread is better than no elim because we still have astump.

Realistically T3 is also town for jumping off Fairy Child ship and saying stuff like this about monkey, he just has far less normal content so it's hard to be completely confident

VOTE: Johnny
Let's pressure this.

TOwn: Lukewarm, Fidet, Prism
Lean towm: Infinity
Null, Ydrasse, Child, Hectic
Scum: Johnny

half the game being vla....
UNVOTE: Johnny
I'm going to give this a reread.

VOTE: johnnyfarrar

Scum!T3 bussing scum!Johnny is also never really a gamewinning plan for scum, or at least one T3 thinks would win the game and let him deepwolf

[Hectic]

Yeah, I don't think scum busses when monkey's putting out a showing like that

[Hectic]

So the question is Fairy Child or skitter for the clean sweep

The only thing that gives me doubt regarding skitter is Fidget's towniness and the fact I'd be horribly wrong on reading her for the first time in forever £_£

[Hectic]

Oh yeah, I forgot about the logistics of wasting nighkills by killing people doused in oil

best we leave that alone until it becomes relevant on later days though

[Hectic]

That's true, pointless right now anyway to speak my other thoughts on it

[Hectic]

840 / 841 could potentially be TMI, monkey sees something scum-motivated about Fidget's posting that no one else does because he's informed of her alignment

[Hectic]

I repped in thinking that was a scum slot. I had my great plan to steamroll hectic while he's rusty since he hasn't played with me recently. Oh well. I'll get you next time just you wait!!!!

Since when has Noraa desired the sickly sweet suffering of scum?

[Hectic]

I'm gonna be catching up but be warned it's gonna be really slowly, like maybe over several hours

Not sure why but mafia feels mostly like a chore/work to me nowadays, when it used to be 100% fun. There are good moments where I feel like I'm having a lot of fun but then most of the time it's forcing myself to post as if it's an obligation

Basically I need an actual break after this game and not to cave in and join anything that looks tempting for a while

[Hectic]

Ydrasse and hectic's conversations make me think they're both the same alignment which is impossible if they are scum so that means they are probably both town? I think if there's scum, it's hectic but I'm not revealing the reason yet otherwise I'll get tunneled. I should have a solid read on infinity bc she's my soul mason but I don't and that's weirding me tf out. Like she's being strange. Idk I'll wait some more. I should be able to read her >:(

Prism feels scummy????? Why do people townread her? Every single one of her posts reminds me of Cabd in that one game where he was deacon blues that cakey hosted.
Lukewarm is pretty eh. He's contributing a lot less to the game than when I last saw him. I'll set him to the side because Prism is so much scummier. Literally why/does anyone townread Prism?

Enters scumreading the two most consensus-town slots in the game, classic Noraa. Want to say it's towny and reminiscent of her scumreading Oka in Dark Waltz

[Hectic]

i also think the timing of flipping off of child onto hem is also sus given that it was obvious a child wagon wasn't happening at that point

I don't think this is true at all. I switched back to monkey when he had 1 vote, Fairy Child had 2. As scum, I don't revive the monkey wagon just as it's basically died because I'm worried monkey's gonna go through and I'll look bad by being off

monkey was clearly putting in a lot of effort to survive and he'd finally managed to get everyone off him but Prism, you think I kill the only other wagon in Fairy Child who I'm currently on and switch to my partner who has a VERY good chance of making it out alive? And it's not like Fairy Child was the only viable option either, T3 for one was definitely pushable

I don't think you believe in the reasons you're giving to scumread me at all. You were sus of me yesterday for flip flopping too much between Fairy Child/monkey, saying you think I'm just trying to push anything through, and I wasn't surprised to come in today and see you continuing to scumread me, but now instead because I bussed monkey

Gonna be honest, if I was bussing monkey, you'd see some much more clear reasons from me, closer to that of a case, and I'd would try and make a more active effort to appear like I'm pushing it through. I would be focused on reaping the towncred from his flip, rather than lazily bussing with little reasoning when monkey is a strong partner to keep around and certainly could've come out alive

[Hectic]

you need a better explanation for why i push you over fairy child because pushing you doesn't make sense in the narrative that you're pushing me for and the bolded doesn't cut it

You came into a gamestate where I was a viable wagon and you saw reasons you could push me for, perhaps reasons you thought you find easier to fake/explain than if you had to push someone else like Fairy Child - I can't know for sure. everyone's already addressed the fact I was absolutely a viable counterwagon EoD

[Hectic]

and hectic admitted to basically looking for reasons to scumread child and that he wasn't inherently scumreading them before that (980)

this is a towntell for me funnily enough

if it seems like I'm looking for/faking reasons, it's because I am and not trying to hide that fact. In my last game with Infinity, I was town and called out for the exact same thing of seeming like I was searching for a scumread and reasons

I don't think I've ever been accused of doing that as scum because I always try and make my pushes feel genuine

I can DISH OUT the self-meta now that I plan to take a break after this

[Hectic]

There is legitimately no good reason for skitter to townread me here if she is scum. There is none. Right now, people mostly agree we are limming one of her or me? There's no reason to be town reading me here as scum. Literally none. I admit, I am much harder to lim than my predecessor from what I've seen but there is still no reason to townread me. Even leaving me to be a mislim option later and setting that up now is > than being like Noraa is probably town.

Hard disagree simply because scum!skitter would recognise the fact that you're far more likely to vote her if she's sus of you

I'll give the thread time to breathe. I also want to know what Hectic's read on skitter is. And Lukewarm.

Scum and town

There is a nonzero chance I just outsource the Noraa/Ydrasse reads to Hectic, but I'd much rather do that as a last resort

It'll cost ya

I don't think skitter believes:

• I wasn't a viable EoD counterwagon
  
• That I as scum would just try to push "anything through" for the lols
  
• That I would lazily bus monkey in a fashion where my actions helped kill monkey, but I did little to make my words appealing

[Hectic]

Noraa you got better! No matter your alignment. I like this noraa

I agree!

I don't really think there's a consistent townblock and really hate the concept of townblocking in general even if it could be applied here.

Curious as to where the Mario simp is/what he's thinking atm

I created the concept art for mario? If anything, nintendo simps for me

This Nakata fellow who refers to himself in third person seems very mysterious... have I played with him before?

[Hectic]

The secret alt culture that's originated on this site is honestly sickening

[Hectic]

I like Nakata's catchup

Nakata is still reading up and is aware that he is perhaps confirmation biased. However Nakata mostly thinks that a number of players have towntold and that your predecessor was not very towny, plus you were off the D1 wagon which Nakata has seen you do as scum before when believing that your buddy is salvageable. Nakata needs to have more context, but given that you won’t be actually removed from the game if town, Nakata is mostly happy to go for what seems like the easy win and to then let out dictate the lim tomorrow if Nakata is wrong on you. Nakata doesn’t consider himself a premiere town player by any means, but Nakata feels that Occam’s razor is that you’re scum.

Very good

Occam's razor the player trying hardest to defend monkey and trying to push a counter to monkey is monkey's partner who wanted to monkey to survive and go far with them

I really think we win with a skitter chop

[Hectic]

But yeah i'm going to hardpush hectic tomorrow fyi

Honestly don't care and I'll take the mutual chopping if I'm wrong, we still get 1 or 2 more chances

[Hectic]

I feel a strong affinity towards Nakata

Infinity/Nakata locktown
Prism/Lukewarm strong town
-
T3/Noraa
-
-
skitter

Someone should hammer and collect the rewards

[Hectic]

Sorry, skitts

Strongly think your pool of Nakata/me is town though

[Hectic]

I don't think it's worth reconsidering Infinity/Prism/Nakata

[Hectic]

Sorry, skitts

Strongly think your pool of Nakata/me is town though

Still think ur scummy tho >.>

It's in my genes nowadays

[Hectic]

I repped in thinking that was a scum slot. I had my great plan to steamroll hectic while he's rusty since he hasn't played with me recently. Oh well. I'll get you next time just you wait!!!!

Since when has Noraa desired the sickly sweet suffering of scum?

I think it's important you answer this, Noraa

I've always known you as a player who tries to avoid playing scum at all cost. You told me you avoided signing up for Hectic vs Flavor Leaf for the sole reason you though I

might

pick you to be scum. Right???

[Hectic]

Ok but i still think you had a lot of partner-indicative interactions with hem and i'm having a very hard time getting over that

Could you show me the interactions? not sure if elaborating on my thoughts during those times could help

[Hectic]

Btw I was fine with self-voting entering today to save us some time and save myself the stress, but I guess everyone's desire to kill me was inflated in my head when it was mostly skitter

[Hectic]

Nvm im not writing hectic's case rn. I want to tell prism something instead.
Prism. You say Super has a very scary scum game right? I read super correctly in my last game with her. Also ydrasse is not super, their play style's are VERY similar. Why do you think it's not right to TR ydrasse here?
I paranoia'd myself to hell and back with super and I feel the exact same here. Everyone is suspicious of ydrasse just like Super was scum's counter wagon. I don't think that we should treat them with more caution just because they have better scum games. Well we should but not exactly. Like when they're sounding towny, that's just town? I haven't seen ydra's scum game in a hot sec but I don't think it would be much different from supers

I was seconds away from unvoting scum but my unvote got pedited by super's vote on scum and we won the game. Just like that. I seriously think ydrasse is just town here.

I want to say I understand everyone's paranoia on her but I don't really tbh. Like I felt some but it was so similar to the feeling that super gave me that I really just don't get it at this point.

This seems weirdly timed post-hammer, feels somewhat performative

[Hectic]

I think it's Noraa or Lukewarm

I'll have a look at now, skitts

[Hectic]

Spoiler:

monkey/johnny was one of his main scumreads all game (see readslists in 220, 362, 633, for example), and hectic admitted to basically looking for reasons to scumread child and that he wasn't inherently scumreading them before that (980)

yet at this stage i've highlighted below, upon HEM repping in and leading wagons (875), he actively wanted child, and was angling for HEM to join him on that wagon. 890 makes no sense coming from town there.

[2] humaneatingmonkey: Prism, Lukewarm
[2] Child of Fairies: T3, Hectic

leading wagons ^

I still prefer a Fairy Child vote

Monkey has some questionable moments like the "i promise you I'm town" + sharp turns on Prism and Infinity when he was originally okay with voting them - I don't agree at all with the only TvT or SvS stance for the Prism/Infinity interaction, not sure why scum can't be combative over such a stance, but doesn't necessarily make monkey scummy, he could just believe it.

Overall it's a ton of effort though and I lean town on other parts like the Fidget assessments

Basically a coin flip

johnny/hem is one of his main scumread and he's leaning child because ...

The responses themselves were

fine

but not explicitly towny

Ydrasse and Monkey; you both seem cool with a Fairy Child vote, wanna help make that happen?

asking his other main scumread to help him with a fairy child vote makes no sense ....

VOTE: monkey

changed my mind

and he switche back to monkey here. child is technically the leading wagon here (938) at 2 votes, but there's very little momentum towards child, and a lot of people want to vote HEM, and daedline is running down.
i actually don't think that switching is inherently scummy or townie, it's basically nai
but given the context that he a child wagon woudl be just about impossible to get through there, i think a vote switch is NAI and could come from either alignment. it should not be read as townie imo

i also dislike how you're kinda pinging back and forth between monkey and fairy and how a couple of pages back you were trying to get monkey to vote fairy with you

i'm kinda interested in this
pedit feels a little like your trying to grab whatever votes you can to push a flip through, but it's odd to me that you'd reach out to someone who you're also actively scumreading
given that the wagons there were fairy/monkey tied (at 2 votes on a <24 hours deadline) it almost looks like you/monkey are partners and trying to get fairy over monkey
like idk why'd you ask monkey for a fairy vote and not the other way around
why are you asking for votes from your scumreads altogether


pedit oh sorry >.> pardon me while i catch up out of order
ok that makes it a little better

These ^

I was leaning Fairy Child because I scumread his motive even if his responses weren't terrible, he was playing suvivalistically in the way he responded - like entirely focused on dismantling literally every point Prism and I gave for why he could be scum. It was far more effort than he'd put into scumhunting or doing anything else previously in the game

When I'm trying to get my main scumread out, I'll ask anyone for votes who I think are likely to vote them. Ydrasse/monkey were the two I recalled of having Fairy Child in their pool and so I reached out to them, it's not uncommon for me to this in games

[Hectic]

Ydrasse and hectic's conversations make me think they're both the same alignment which is impossible if they are scum so that means they are probably both town? I think if there's scum, it's hectic but I'm not revealing the reason yet otherwise I'll get tunneled. I should have a solid read on infinity bc she's my soul mason but I don't and that's weirding me tf out. Like she's being strange. Idk I'll wait some more. I should be able to read her >:(

Prism feels scummy????? Why do people townread her? Every single one of her posts reminds me of Cabd in that one game where he was deacon blues that cakey hosted.
Lukewarm is pretty eh. He's contributing a lot less to the game than when I last saw him. I'll set him to the side because Prism is so much scummier. Literally why/does anyone townread Prism?

Enters scumreading the two most consensus-town slots in the game, classic Noraa. Want to say it's towny and reminiscent of her scumreading Oka in Dark Waltz

Also ???
And why isnt it t3???

I thought it was you and you flipped town $_$

I'm clearly wrong somewhere given I was townreading everyone else

T3's done some really weird stuff this game that I think is unlikely from a partner. Voting your buddy while calling them a townread for a deadline launch for example

[Hectic]

Lukewarm would actually be insane at scum if he is scum here though, it probably is Noraa. The case for Lukewarm is this:

The responses themselves were

fine

but not explicitly towny

Ydrasse and Monkey; you both seem cool with a Fairy Child vote, wanna help make that happen?

pretending like I am not even here. smh

VOTE: Child

He helps wagon Fairy Child (countering monkey) despite me not actually asking him to join

Oops

Lukewarm, I'm interested to hear why you followed me onto Fairy Child if you had the idea you wanted to vote for Hectic/Prism

I think I'd vote monkey if not Fairy Child anyway

Was reconsidering my Monkey read, and fell back on my suspicions on Child from 674 / 675.

Was worried with the deadline, and I also do not think I hold enough thread sway to get people to move over to either of you.

he later says Prism/Hectic is his pool which makes it interesting how he would follow one of his two scumreads onto a Fairy Child vote. More sus now that we know monkey is scum

Infinity, lets vote hectic!!

Every single wagon appears to stall out pretty hard. We gotta get a few people on the same page at some point. You + me + skitter all have hectic in out poe, and I think we could round up the votes from T3/HEM

He also pretty blatantly tries to coutnerwagon me last minute which would save monkey lol

This is extremely bold as scum and his tone/reasoning has been great throughout, so I still think he's just town

[Hectic]

Not gonna vote for a while though, we definitely don't rush today

Noraa, I'd like to hear that secret reason you have for me being scum when you entered the game, and also your grand scumcase. I expect great things!

[Hectic]

Alright, fair

Why don't you think you'd get any heat here if you were scum? Like, how would you be playing this differently?

[Hectic]

Noraa, the truth is your wall is so more effort than I expected from town!Noraa, and reminiscent of scum!Noraa going all out with effort to make herself look towny. The motive behind it reads a lot like it's designed to make us read you better, in the sense that's it's not as free flowing as I'd expect, but more structured and presented to look good

I did some game analysis and Prism scum actually makes zero sense mech wise. I hate reading mech but I mapped out the game yesterday and thought of all sorts of possibilities and Prism has to be the worse scum ever to bus their buddy on day 1 in a setup like this.
My conclusion was basically that Prism, if scum would have to get through 3 town mislims on their own(number might be wrong. I did the analysis yesterday and can't remember atm) and also all the targets put on at night have to stay alive. Which doesn't sound too bad maybe but the probability of it all working out are pretty low and if anyone catches on, it will all come crashing down. Other options include not setting them ablaze the same night but doing it twice or just getting to lylo and doing it the normal way. Both are difficult because the winning odds typically go down to like 50% which isn't that high. Also, seeing that prism got the lim of their choice in such a disorganized group means that prism could've easily got the lim elsewhere. All in all, Prism scum makes zero sense is an opinion that I developed overnight.

I also find this read very bizarre in the sense that it seems to be an overexplation that Prism's town because scum won't hardbus day 1

[Hectic]

What a beautiful thesis

I thought a lot of what Ydrasse posted was in her scumrange but she left it in moments. Whenever she's scum I usually see a few reads I just don't buy in the sense I don't think she really believes it, like the reasoning is too out there, but I haven't really felt that way at all this game

There were also a few moments that

might

be out of her scumrange in the sense she doesn't remember to fake them:

irritation at feeling like i should be apparent vs energy too low to try

i don’t remember how to play as town anymore

this is why i only vibe and don't try to give thoughts. lmao.

i think i'm frustrated because i feel i'm giving slightly more effort than i intended to and it's fallen flat

^last one could be nai but I lean town-indicative because she's more entitled to be townread when town, but doesn't expect to be as scum

[Hectic]

skirting around the inactive slot all day is ?_?

Oh I just ISO'd ydrasse and I agree

If you wanna vote me i'll be an afk stump probably for a few days

My gospel will be to kill infinity

Ydrasse where are you getting the idea that you can read me

Ydrasse where are you getting the idea that you can read me

Openwolf

The spitefulness here seemed kinda towny

Oh yeah, also this

[Hectic]

that Ydrasse simply wouldn't be able to muster the optimism and effort at the start of Day 2 solo. Am I right here?

Yeah, I don't think so

I think it'd maybe be a different matter if she'd set herself up by bussing monkey and was feeling it. Instead though she just remained unvoting for the later part of day 1 and didn't help save her partner at all despite defending him

I think a scum!Ydrasse coming out of that wouldn't have that initial burst of optimism/effort

[Hectic]

I still haven't gone through my hectic case I realize but I didn't do that overnight so that'll wait a bit. My strongest reason atm is that his read on me feels faked. He's never really given me a read straight off the bat and then thrown me into a readslist just like that. He always hesitates a bit when town because he knows that I react badly to pressure and because my reads and towniness fluctuate depending on surroundings.

I was confbiasing a lot probably yesterday. Seeing skitter slot as scum made it a lot easier to see everyone else as town, I wanted to

believe

that was the case and that we'd win the game

[Hectic]

T3, what're your thoughts for scum?

[Hectic]

Lukewarm. I was ready to come in with a townread today but no. I see why I'm a suspect but voting me right off the back and defending T3 is such a bad look. I hate it so much. I was 100% certain last scum was hectic but now I'm questioning everything. Like the issue is this: I do NOT ever want to be the game losing lim tomorrow but if I die today, I am very worried about tomorrow. T3 has said recently(outside of this game) that he is pretty busy. I don't TR him but if he is town, he is a very big mislim possibility. The fact that Lukewarm is hard town reading T3 gives me the heeby jeebies. There's too many wifom possibilities there and I've sped run through those in my head with the main ones being saving him to be the game winning mislim and using like "reverse mentality". Its that thing I talked about yesterday how if someone told me to vote someone but not someone else. Or "or someone else". I'm more likely to not vote the one I'm told to vote.

It's honestly such a reach to say Lukewarm could be lining up T3 as the game-ending miselim by

hard townreading

him, rather than say lining up miselims normally by leaving your options open so you don't look sus when you flip later on. How is that enough to flip your townread on him?

This combined with the Prism-bus-read and I think Noraa doesn't believe the words she's putting down right now. It's "nuance" for the sake of nuance to look towny

I actually feel pretty good about Noraa being scum but I feel sheepish after the uh slightly incorrect skitter push, so I shall refrain

I still like all the Fairy Child reasons I've given in the past too

[Hectic]

What's indicative about the replace-out?

[Hectic]

But yeah T3's lack of substance abuse means it's hard to ever confidently pin him as town, I do agree though that his actions are town and non-partner-indicative for what he has graced us with

[Hectic]

hectic we do not peer pressure here you should know better

Infinity you should do less hard drugs and eat more snickers

What's indicative about the replace-out?

Just solo-scum replacing out period is kinda eh, would be the same thing w/ Ydrasse, but it happens so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ah, fair

[Hectic]

Have I played with Nakata frequently before?

pedit: Wait stop the trees need you here Nakata!!

[Hectic]

Noraa you got better! No matter your alignment. I like this noraa

Thank you that means a lot to me. I recently was actually reading through some of my past games. I recently met a very toxic player(we are not naming names and I am not trying to attack anyone everyone goes through phases and I understand) but it really struck deep realizing what my play had evolved into. I looked through some past games. Prism might've reminded me of cabd because that was a game that I recently read actually. Reading that game hurt my soul. It hurt so bad realizing how bad my play was and just how terrible I could be. Ok this is a discussion for a different place but this does mean a lot to me. I'd like to think my play is no longer a toxic shitfest of the most useless garbage. AHH ok I need to stop. I kept doing this recently. but this means a lot. it really really does.

Nakata thought this post rung as very emotionally honest and thinks it would be very distasteful for Noraa to be using it to try to manipulate people into TRing her here. However, Nakata admits he doesn’t know Noraa that well or if she would share his opinion about this, and maybe Nakata is weighting it too heavily, especially as he supposes that Noraa isn’t actually pointing to this post or her different attitude here and trying to use that to get townreads from people.

Okay, Nakata must leave. Nakata will return later, tree friends!

I think that post is genuine but entirely NAI for Noraa, I believe she's referring to her play as both alignments, and probably wasn't trying to manipulate us with it if scum

[Hectic]

Noraa you got better! No matter your alignment. I like this noraa

Thank you that means a lot to me. I recently was actually reading through some of my past games. I recently met a very toxic player(we are not naming names and I am not trying to attack anyone everyone goes through phases and I understand) but it really struck deep realizing what my play had evolved into. I looked through some past games. Prism might've reminded me of cabd because that was a game that I recently read actually. Reading that game hurt my soul. It hurt so bad realizing how bad my play was and just how terrible I could be. Ok this is a discussion for a different place but this does mean a lot to me. I'd like to think my play is no longer a toxic shitfest of the most useless garbage. AHH ok I need to stop. I kept doing this recently. but this means a lot. it really really does.

Nakata thought this post rung as very emotionally honest and thinks it would be very distasteful for Noraa to be using it to try to manipulate people into TRing her here. However, Nakata admits he doesn’t know Noraa that well or if she would share his opinion about this, and maybe Nakata is weighting it too heavily, especially as he supposes that Noraa isn’t actually pointing to this post or her different attitude here and trying to use that to get townreads from people.

Okay, Nakata must leave. Nakata will return later, tree friends!

This post came out of the depths of my heart. Toxicity in town games was a real issue for me for the longest time. No hectic, it is not NAI. I don't get toxic as scum or at least I very very rarely do. But my town game was a huge shitfest for months and months and it was painful for me and the people around me who knew I didn't like being an asshole. What infinity said meant a lot to me because of that. I don't want to go into this here honestly.

Nakata, I do use AtE when I am scum to get people to TR me. While I think it is probably near my scum range, I never quite go that deep as scum because that's when it starts hurting to see people believe me.

Oh no, this feels towny

Why are you sold on T3-town, Noraa?

[Hectic]

It means Noraa!scum would have to be faking the emotion there for parts but I'm still not sure if it's

distasteful

[Hectic]

Noraa has become lock scum for me as of this page. I am ready to 1v1 her to the death. If we kill her today, and she flips town, I will take the elim tomorrow.

Spoiler:

No, I cannot explain what happened on this page to lock her as scum for me, which I know is

really crappy

- but that is why I am willing to offer myself up as the miselim tomorrow, to make up for me not being able to explain my reasoning

My game plan for Day 4 was to ask everyone if we should kill a paranoia target (out of me, prism, infinity) anyways, because the 3 of us were all most likely going to be primed at that point, so there was little risk, but I am 100% down to be the paranoia vote tomorrow.

lol I don't know why but I find this hilarious

I kind of get a feeling of what you might be talking about though and thought and didn't want to mention the same thing

[Hectic]

Oh nvm, it wasn't on that page. I was thinking of Noraa discussing safe stumps on doused targets a day earlier than we should

[Hectic]

Why are you sold on T3-town, Noraa?

I'm not but I have too many scum reads as it is.

What's your read on him independent of everyone else?

[Hectic]

I'm really curious on your secret reason to lockscum Noraa from last page, Lukewarm

I think you're allowed to say if it's influenced by ongoing games but have to leave it at that

[Hectic]

GOOD NIGHT PRISM

[Hectic]

Noraa, your whole Lukewarm read feels extremely reachy to me. You say Lukewarm is a newbie and he wasn't this towny and shiny when you last played with him - it would be even MORE impressive then if he was scum and managed to pull this off

You say Lukewarm is once again lining up a T3 elim by townreading T3 - why are you seeing some ulterior motive to Lukewarm's townread on T3 rather than anyone else calling T3 town or slots calling T3 potential scum? I can't see why you've honed in with this moonlogic on Lukewarm over anyone else

You say everyone else is calling him locktown which just increases your paranoia of him - that's not a reason to think it's scum, it's a strong counterpoint

You say his gladiating is towny but could technically be faked - it feels like you're jumping hurdles to force this read

[Hectic]

gg!! I had much more fun that I expected this day phase

Good effort but tough gig, Noraa, you kinda repped into a landmine of obvtowns

[Hectic]

If you are town I hope you know that one of us is so wrong that it hurts and one of us is going to have to drag the other kicking and screaming to the finish line of voting scum and dear god I hope it's you

Alternatively it's something dumb like HEM/Child and we're both right

Well, what'd you know

[Hectic]

Thanks for modding, MURDERCAT

I expect nothing less than flawless mod commentary in the mod pt

[Hectic]

Couldn't have done it without your vibes in the thread, the VCs were great morale support