Open 815: Forest Fire Redux [Endgame]

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: child of fairies

my friend was going to sign up for this with me, but they took the last slot

[Lukewarm]

axe me. do it. then what're you gonna do, vote me again? im gonna haunt you forever

That mechanic might make this the funniest game to be the first time I have ever been voted out in

[Lukewarm]

Weeping Willow
Birch
Pine
Maple
Oak
Spruce
Hickory

[Lukewarm]

Weeping Willow
Birch
Pine
Maple
Oak
Spruce
Hickory

Spoiler:

Me trying to fit in with all the other trees

[Lukewarm]

Luke you have beautiful branches for this time of year

Why thank you

*twirls leaves*

[Lukewarm]

you don’t get it i wanted to use it on an alt i was on twitter the art showed up because i follow a few good utena accs and i was like Yoink for later and you do This to me it hurts

VOTE: infinity

The infinity vote under this comment confuses me slightly.

[Lukewarm]

On the other hand, infinity has made 3 posts and 2 of them have been to vote for Ydra

[Lukewarm]

Ydrasse is scum when obvtown

I learned this the hard way

[Lukewarm]

I love your avatar, Lukewarm

Thank you.

@everyone else, after this and Ydra's 27, no one else is allowed to complement me. I can only be in so many pockets at a time in one game.

[Lukewarm]

Also, hectic, I find it strange that I encountered "NotAHecticAlt" on this site before I encountered you, so I am curious what kind of player inspires someone else to name an alt after them lol

[Lukewarm]

It's because I'm usually playing on secret alts, you're seeing me in my rare form in my unnatural habitat

Have I encountered you before then?

[Lukewarm]

It's because I'm usually playing on secret alts, you're seeing me in my rare form in my unnatural habitat

Have I encountered you before then?

Not that I want to know your alt, but I am curious if you are walking into this with more information on me then I have on you

[Lukewarm]

I was unwnd, Egix, and Something_Smart in your games. Was hoping to keep those secret but ah well, just keep it within this game. Otherwise, no

@ Ydra, how do I report hectic for cheating? We played with Unwnd and Something_Smart in the same game

I have caught a bad guy

(@everyone else, this does mean that I am once again open for complements, as I have climbed out of hectics pocket and am now pointing a gun at him)

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm you're a lovely person

Thank you

@everyone else, I am no longer accepting compliments at this time

[Lukewarm]

It was a hydra of two of my alts so it was allowed. Mod just got confused and counted my votes twice

Okay, I guess I can believe that. I won't report you then.

However, I am sad to inform you that I will not be returning to your pocket, because I am now in Infinity's

[Lukewarm]

It was a hydra of two of my alts so it was allowed. Mod just got confused and counted my votes twice

Okay, I guess I can believe that. I won't report you then.

However, I am sad to inform you that I will not be returning to your pocket, because I am now in Infinity's

This seems like a pocketing pyramid scheme you got going here btw. People think they're pocketing you but in actuality you're the one doing the deep pocketing at the very top. I think your lightheartedness is +town though, you'd have to be reasonably comfortable as scum

It is a very simple system. This set up has two scum, so it is only possible for me to be in a maximum of two pockets.

Spoiler:

In actuality tho, I am never really sure what I should be doing in the first 5 or so pages, so I'm just having a good time

[Lukewarm]

Go on then,

attack

Okay, I gotta go

V/LA until the 9th

Hectic really did say "fight me" and then immediately went on vacation huh?

[Lukewarm]

So far I would lean against voting any of Ydrasse, Lukewarm, Child

I am happy voting Infinity at the moment. Applying the "towny" label to what I did with Ydrasse is not wrong but is very presumptive. I would consider Johnny or T3, too.

T3's start with Lukewarm was bizarre as T3 hadn't posted and Luke hadn't said anything about T3. Not sure if that was a joke or what.

T3 is just a little salty that I am really good at spotting scum!T3

[Lukewarm]

Ydrasse, pick a vote and I'll follow.

@Ydra, why was this enough to "pressure you into voting" before you were ready to vote?

[Lukewarm]

So, why am I being voted for for being one of like three people to joke about a guy declaring a 1v1 and then declaring v/la right after that?

I don't think your joking about the 1v1 was bad, but this defense is just bad ^ VOTE: Child of Fairies

Bad enough to put them at e-1? Because that is e-1

[Lukewarm]

Hello, hi. I too am in this game. I am not sure how to sort Infinity and Ydra's interactions, but Ydra seems different then the scum games I have seen her in, so I think I am leaning town there

But also, there are too many people with less posts then the mod, and that is a sad thing to see.

[Lukewarm]

Oh I didn't read your post close enough

I'n hesitant to use marathon meta, but I agree with your assessment

That is my only scum game on site, so if you want to find scum meta on me thats all ya got

[Lukewarm]

Infinity, do you struggle with marathon settings just as scum or both alignments?

I know that I am not the person being asked, but I am gonna answer anyways too

I apparently only struggle with being scum in marathons games.

Spoiler:

I floundered in the scum game, and was fairly widely scum read. But I think that my town marathon games was one of my strongest town games on site.

Showed up, got fairly widely Town Read, spotted that Pooky was scummy, then lead town to a Day 1 scum elimination.

[Lukewarm]

I'm under the impression he joined during marathon season though and some players have played with him there.

I played in 2 marathon games, but I played a few games before that too.

I was in Guardians of the Fortress with Ydra and Infinity, where scum-ydra wiped the floor with us, and I also thought town-infinity was scum

[Lukewarm]

I'm under the impression he joined during marathon season though and some players have played with him there.

I played in 2 marathon games, but I played a few games before that too.

I was in Guardians of the Fortress with Ydra and Infinity, where scum-ydra wiped the floor with us, and I also thought town-infinity was scum

I mean long form Guardians of the Fortress here, although interestingly, all 3 of us were in the marathon run of that same set up too

[Lukewarm]

Oh, I misinterpreted, he's simply only been scum in marathon games but he's had town games outside of there.

So his scum game is more or less an unknown factor. For me personally scum is easier in marathon because I'm decent at word salad / bullshitting to seem like I believe in what I'm talking about but I'm abysmal at playing a long, well thought out scumgame. I'm not sure his difficulties with scum in marathon will transfer to here because he might also find the experiences very different.

I say his tone is good because he seems comfortable, no awkward interactions from what I noticed. So I wonder if scum makes him feel anxious or not. That's the best I have right now.

Pedit/ I see, thank you.

See, the thing is, that marathon game was simultaneously my first marathon game AND my first scum game, so that probably did not help. I am not really counting marathon games, so imo I have yet to have a scum game on site.

As such, I will confidently assume

Spoiler:

/pretend

I have an amazing scum game until proven other wise

[Lukewarm]

I think that last post by T3 was pretty reminiscent of looking at a post and feeling like the writer is scum but not really having a reason why other than gut, which is something I don't usually think to fake as scum. I usually give a reason. There's no obvious motivation for T3 to write that as scum, it's not even written about the player he's currently pushing.

I have played like 5 or 6 games with T3 (more then anyone else onsite actually), and I feel like I am getting good at reading his alignment. I am just waiting for a little bit more time / posts from him atm

[Lukewarm]

@hectic, what part of this makes you scumlean Prism.

She very quickly put herself into a strong 1v1 with you, and I am not sure why scum!prism would have shown up and chosen violence against you this early.

I have not looked at any of the other games you have mentioned, but did their scum read of you in those other games come out this aggressive, this early?

[Lukewarm]

Simpler restatement of 240: Debating the motivation for something I'm not doing in the first place is stupid.

My question was if he thought scum!you would push a fake read so aggressively so early in the game.

Both his read on you and your counter read on him appear to be meta based, and because I was not a part of any of these game being talked about, it is hard for me to personally look at them and parse how genuine or fake they are.

So, instead I am looking at how you have acted in this thread. And here, you have presented a read, and then fought for it very aggressively.

Having never played a game with you, I am comparing your actions to a baseline of how I would expect scum and town to act in the thread. And from that baseline, you pushing this hard seems more likely to be coming from a town who truly believes it, then from a scum who faked the read.

I am explicitly asking if, based on his meta with you, he thinks that you would be more likely to behave this way as scum then that baseline of scum I have in my head.

I am trying to figure out how he looked at your play so far this game, and ended up with a scum lean

[Lukewarm]

I know, that was for Child, but I appreciate explaining your perspective more anyway.

oh

[Lukewarm]

Have you ever caught T3 scum? Because I've only ever seen them mislimmed. And like, often.

Yes I have.

I have also seen him miselimed, and I have seen why that happens, and do account for it when reading him now. In our most recent game I had him down as Town on like page 7, but then the town proceeded to ignore me and miselim him Day 1 anyways :/

[Lukewarm]

I think I am leaning town T3 here, but now he has me paranoid by saying this

Lukewarm scumreading me this game is a huge scumtell.

In a - once he becomes aware of his scum meta tells, it is less useful - kind of way.

[Lukewarm]

I'm optimistic about T3 being town thus far.

I think I am leaning town T3 here, but now he has me paranoid by saying this

Lukewarm scumreading me this game is a huge scumtell.

In a - once he becomes aware of his scum meta tells, it is less useful - kind of way.

I interpreted that as him saying if you scumread him then you're scummy. Not that he's scum if you scumread him. Do I have this right?

You're right that that is what he said, but I am pretty sure he was joking about me getting his alignment correct fairly early recently. Our most recent completed game, I confidently had him as town by page 7.

So basically "Luke can spot my alignment early, so if he scum reads me he must be scum!"

So from my pov, that was him claiming to be town in the middle of a meta joke lol

But if he is becoming aware of how I spot the difference in his town and scum playstyle, then it is less useful.

[Lukewarm]

That being said, I do still have him as a town lean, and he is not currently someone I would consider for elimination today.

I am just being paranoid

[Lukewarm]

Spoiler:

I am pretty sure he was joking

I am realizing that it probably was not funny for anyone other then exactly me (doubly so once it is spelled out) but I chuckled when I read it originally

[Lukewarm]

Decent observation but our 1v1 was very meta dependent so I can understand why Fidget and the Fairy Child didn't have much to add. I actually found Lukewarm dipping from the thread shortly after it happened more suspicious over the other two stayed to post about other things. Possible mafia leaves not wanting to get involved and seeing how it goes (if it's TvT)

I am not sure what this is even referring to.

When did I supposedly dip from the thread, while Fidget and Fairy Child stayed and posted about other things?

[Lukewarm]

I think I am leaning town T3 here, but now he has me paranoid by saying this

Lukewarm scumreading me this game is a huge scumtell.

In a - once he becomes aware of his scum meta tells, it is less useful - kind of way.

I find the paranoia in this post a little strange, I think it's a bit of a reach to link T3 talking about a tell of yours to him manipulating his own scummeta

Could you talk about why he appears to be your strongest town thus far, Lukewarm?

I am very confused when I am reading your posts about me, because, like when did I say he is "my strongest town read thus far"

[Lukewarm]

Decent observation but our 1v1 was very meta dependent so I can understand why Fidget and the Fairy Child didn't have much to add. I actually found Lukewarm dipping from the thread shortly after it happened more suspicious over the other two stayed to post about other things. Possible mafia leaves not wanting to get involved and seeing how it goes (if it's TvT)

I am not sure what this is even referring to.

When did I supposedly dip from the thread, while Fidget and Fairy Child stayed and posted about other things?

It was the gap between 199 and 241

You stopped posting shortly after I voted for Prism, dip is assuming you're scum who tactically avoided it like some kind of tactical nuke

Okay, but my question is why you would think my lack of thread presence there was scummy, while simultaneously not see a problem from the others?

My "suspicious" gap was apparently 199 -> 241

But Fidget was unsuspicious for having a gap from 201 -> 256

We left the thread literally the same minute, but me doing so was suspicious and her doing so was reasonable?

[Lukewarm]

It's an assumption based on that being the only townlean you've outed so far I think, correct me if wrong

I am pretty sure that I have a stated town lean on Ydra as well, but regardless seeing you characterize this

I think I am leaning town T3 here, but now he has me paranoid

As a "my strongest town" seems odd.

[Lukewarm]

Huh, you're right, it didn't feel like Fidget was absent for some reason, probably because she has a post on page 9 and you don't

Pedit: I'm not saying your read on T3 is strong, I'm saying it's your strongest read, even if it's weak. Do you think scum!me would gain something from falsely characterizing it that way?

Well, from my pov, I just saw a mischaracterization, into a mischaracterization, into me being on your scum list.

So I am trying to figure out if you were just looking for reasons to have me listed as scum

[Lukewarm]

I think I am leaning town T3 here, but now he has me paranoid by saying this

Lukewarm scumreading me this game is a huge scumtell.

In a - once he becomes aware of his scum meta tells, it is less useful - kind of way.

I find the paranoia in this post a little strange, I think it's a bit of a reach to link T3 talking about a tell of yours to him manipulating his own scummeta

Could you talk about why he appears to be your strongest town thus far, Lukewarm?

To actually answer this question though, the paranoia is more that I confidently had a correct read on him 2 games in a row by page 10, but this game I did not have a confident read.

Also, I think you too missed the joke coming from T3. He was not actually talking about a scumtell of mine, seeing as how he has never seen me as scum. He was talking about my ability to read him.

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm scumreading me this game is a huge scumtell.

Like this actually parses out to

"Town Luke has read me correctly by page 10 in our last 2 games"

"I am town this game"

"If Luke thinks says he scum reads me, he must be scum"

[Lukewarm]

I am now exiting the thread. I, as a human, need food to survive.

Spoiler:

Would not normally share this, but some people think that someone for leaving the thread at 5:30 pm could be indicative of scumminess, without considering the possibility that someone's husband may be asking them to get off the computer so that we could get ready to go out for dinner

Spoiler:

Typed out joke. Seems less funny then I thought it would. Sending anyways because I already spent the time to type it out

[Lukewarm]

At the moment I am leaning town for T3 and Ydra based on how I have seen them play before.

Looking through isos, I am leaning town on Fidget atm

I am not sure what led people to town read hectic from the 1v1 with prism. looking at his iso, I feel like all of his responses would make sense as either alignment. I am still unsure what to think about his interaction with me either. So he is null for me.

I am leaning Infinity as town too. I like their interaction with the hectic / Prism 1v1. I think that some of their interections seem like they could have stopped a Prism tunnel on Hectic, which scum!Infinity would not have wanted unless exactly Hectic is her scum partner.

I am still of the opinion that scum!prism would not have gone so hard so early on hectic.

Fairies was pretty nonchelant about hitting E-1 imo

So I think I am left with VOTE: Johnny

[Lukewarm]

VLA until Tuesday

[Lukewarm]

Hello, hi. Checking in, but I have a few pages to catch up on

[Lukewarm]

This is deeply ironic and you are wildly, wildly offtrack in your interpretation. I think fixing it by being more explicit would be in poor taste.

I would reflect on what Hectic townread about my posts recently, and think carefully about what 363 is suggesting.

uhhhh. Do not like Prism's response to Infinity here

The frustration over a scum read does not appear to line up with the situation, and makes me feel like maybe Prism planned out those posts specifically to make themselves look townie, and because Infinity misunderstood the post, she scum read them, and that frustrates them - more then just being scum read would normally.

Maybe, scum caught for the wrong reason frustrations I guess?

[Lukewarm]

I am incredibly tempted to selfhammer given the mechanics but will hold off.

And then this line, but not following through makes me question the motivation for making this post in the first place.

[Lukewarm]

Just double counted the votes, and this should be e-1, not the hammer

VOTE: prism

[Lukewarm]

That was typed before the vote on me.

It is very important that I get a response from Hectic before I flip. Force him to go to bat against me to secure the elimination; do not hammer prior.

If I was not already voting you, I think I might have hammered after this post, but alas.

[Lukewarm]

I have had enough of people actively getting in my way of trying to sort that slot.

If he's town and I'm scum let him have his own agency and place his bet rather than capitalizing on it while he's gone.

I do not want him crying that I was obviously town after I have already flipped.

The issue with you claiming this mindset, is that you will stay in the thread after elimination if you are town.

It would turn you into an innocent child, who would have free reign to sort hectic's slot, and to also call him out if he tried to pull that.

I get the feeling that you are more adverse to being eliminated here then makes sense for a townie.

[Lukewarm]

422 was sleazy.

One of the reasons why I voted Prism was because the way they interacted with Infinity felt more like someone trying to intimidate votes away from of themselves. Very much did not like it. And I personally do not respond well to that.

And I read through, that seemed to me like the reason Infinity unvoted, and then thought better of it and revoted.

And then to 421, if I had not already voted, I would have hammered them

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm, I would advise skimming this game.

I selfhammer on Page 1, fortunately having a mechanical excuse but make it quite clear I would have done it as VT. Day 2, I lose my mind over someone suggesting I would play a certain way as scum, and promptly vote to concede the game.

The playstyle difference here is just bussing, but there are extensive examples in multiple other games of me waxing for pages and pages about what I

actually

would have done as scum if you would like.

These are not moments of pride, but they are exactly what I do not want to repeat this game.

This..... doesn't help your arguement?

In that game you self hammered because you were tilted and had a mechanical benefit to doing so.

This game, you claim to be tilting and you have a mechanical benefit to being eliminated, and you announced that you will never self hammer this game

[Lukewarm]

That was typed before the vote on me.

It is very important that I get a response from Hectic before I flip. Force him to go to bat against me to secure the elimination; do not hammer prior.

@ Ydra, basically, this post reads to me like it is pressuring everyone in the game, except exactly hectic, to not vote Prism. And if my vote was free, I would have hammered because I do not like being pressured.

There is also the fact that the last thing I remember hectic saying about Prism's slot was that it was getting townier, so there is a benefit for scum!prism to gambit that way.

But, my vote is already there, so it does not really matter at the moment

I am off to try and get some sleep.

[Lukewarm]

Your vote absolutely matters, especially when you are actively encouraging hammers on me without letting me do the single thing I have wanted to do today. Ridiculous.

You misunderstood. I did not mean that my vote did not matter. I meant that whether or not I would have hammered there did not matter, because I could not hammer there. So I did not see the benefit of continuing to talk about why I would have, and only did so in the first place because Ydra called me out on it.

[Lukewarm]

I don't totally get the case against Prism.

Johhny, Faries, and Prism are my top 3 scum after a reread.

What changed in this 14 min game here?

Like what did you see in the reread that you missed the first time?

[Lukewarm]

I think I am leaning town T3 here, but now he has me paranoid by saying this

Lukewarm scumreading me this game is a huge scumtell.

In a - once he becomes aware of his scum meta tells, it is less useful - kind of way.

I find the paranoia in this post a little strange/quote]

So I can actually address my paranoia in regards to T3, because our most recent game ended. I hard accused T3 of being scum on page 2 of the thread, because his posts we so different from how they were normally when he is town.

Later in the day, I did a meta dive on him to compare scum games to town games, and the difference was clear. And I explained that in the thread, and he was flipped Day 1 as scum. I felt bad that I caught him so early (like page 2 seemed excessive lol), and I ended up apologizing, explaining the differences, and even explained ways he could keep me from spotting him as scum in the future. <- that was like 5 days before this game started.

So, I am leaning town on him, but I am also aware that I told him how I spot him as scum less then a week before this game started.

[Lukewarm]

Hello, I have returned from V/LA.

Will catch up

[Lukewarm]

like “i think this person is scum/has some bad takes/etc” and sees them voting someone and goes “well i wouldn’t be opposed but we should give them time but if it’s not good enough fine we can kill the slot.”

maybe it’s the fact child is interacting like that with someone they don’t trust and don’t consider the implications of said person voting someone else.

i’m trying to work out in my head if child/johnny could be together based on that because it feels like child doesn’t really want johnny dead but is willing to bite the bullet given his absence/lack of control on the game.

I looked back at this, and I noticed that Child had already independently stated a scum lean on Johnny, so is it actually that strange that they would still be okay with that elimination today, regardless of their read on Prism?

T3 and Johnny both feel less towny to me due to their "I'm just going to hop in, vote, and leave" gameplans

[Lukewarm]

I still read through the thread, and am seeing Prism as scum, but then everyone else is dropping town reads on her. Maybe it is just a playstyle clash. /shrug

I am struggling to find a solid scum lean else where tho. Like, I felt like Johnny was a bit scummy, but then they are V/LA and clearly dealing with other things right now, and that could explain it.

I am getting townie feels from fidget, infinity, ydra, t3, and child.

So I guess, I am left with Hectic.

So I think that right now I am at Prism>Johnny>Hectic>>>Everyone else

But then I don't think that Prism and Hectic are partners.

I think that I would like the elimination to be within those three at the moment

[Lukewarm]

My scum read on you currently, is resting more on how you acted at e-1 then any of the self hammer conversations.

You were being scum read by half the lobby, and personally frustrated that those scum reads were getting in your way of sorting Hectic.

If I were in that situation, I think I would have considered maybe me being the Day 1 elim would not be such a bad thing. It would solve the problem of people scum reading me, and give me the trusted voice of being an IC.

I don't know that I would have self hammered in that situation, but I don't think I would have fought so aggressively against it.

None of that has anything to do with your meta. That has to do with your play, given this games mechanics, not lining up with how I would expect town to react.

[Lukewarm]

Prism, who do you currently have as the most scummy? Because I feel like looking through your iso, you are kinda fence-sitting with your reads.

Like, you are voting Hectic, but also

It would not shock me if Hectic is town.

And then you are okay voting Johnny as a compromise, but the most recent thing I can find you saying about him is

Reread Johnny, 252 is better than I realized at first pass.

GTH, who is your top pick for scum right now?

[Lukewarm]

I will eat Hectic's oldest athletic shoe boiled in a pot of grape Kool-Aid if Lukewarm is scum

ohh, something to look forward to after I flip

[Lukewarm]

I am realizing that our reads are almost perfectly aligned (excluding your slot of course)

[Lukewarm]

Fuck it

VOTE: hectic

[Lukewarm]

i don’t remember how to play as town anymore

My plan is flail blindly day 1, and see what happens.

Then heavily examine those things that happen Night 1 / Day 2

Maybe try that?

[Lukewarm]

[Lukewarm]

I think you underestimate how sticky my gut reads are, but makes sense. Also I don't think you're extremely town but yeah.

Do you have any town reads higher then Prism?

[Lukewarm]

I think you underestimate how sticky my gut reads are, but makes sense. Also I don't think you're extremely town but yeah.

Do you have any town reads higher then Prism?

I have a lot of weak townreads this game, but you're a significantly stronger townread than prism and so is ydrasse I guess.

Was getting ready to grill you for this, turns out I just misread 568

[Lukewarm]

So have we decided that the entire scum team decided to take the week off?

[Lukewarm]

I just feel like everyone is TRing so many people, that it worries me. Currently looking back over everyone' most recently stated scum reads to get a better feel

[Lukewarm]

Spoiler: People's Stated Scum Reads

• Child : t3, johnny, prism
  Fidget : Johnny, Child
  Hectic : Prism, Johnny, t3
  Infinity : johnny, fidget
  Prism: Hectic, johnny, Ydra
  T3 : Child Johnny
  Ydrasse : Johnny
  Luke : Hectic, Johnny, Prism
  Johnny : Fidget, child

• Number of people scum reading each player
  
  
• Johnny: 8
  
• Child: 3
  
• Prism: 3
  
• T3 : 3
  
• Fidget: 2
  
• Hectic: 2
  
• Yda: 1
  
• Infinity: 0
  
• Luke: 0

And it just seems like we are pretty far from a consensus other then, Johnny is not here so we are all suspicious of him. And on that front, I mean we are ALL suspicious of him.

And I feel like there has not been a lot of effort to stop the us from giving out our town reads. There is less confusion then I would expect in the game. Like zero people are considering scum me or infinity, and only 1 is looking at possible scum Ydra?

There is no push back on the Johnny collective scum read?

It just feels like the scum team is happy with how the reads are falling, and don't feel the need to stir the pot

- or they are both on vacation.

[Lukewarm]

I think if johnny is scum it still makes sense for the game to play out the way it has, like he only has one partner what are they gonna do

I guess I am more suspicious of there being multiple people with so few scum reads on them. I don't think I have even gotten through a day 1 with literally 0 people scum reading me. And then I see that it is not just me, but you as well. And Ydra was sitting with zero as well until like 30 mins ago.

Why is the scum team letting a town block form so easily?

Spoiler:

Basically, I need someone to scum read me so that I don't feel so paranoid /s

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm was very explicit about wanting someone to hammer ASAP, before you got a chance to weigh in. My being scum in that sentence there is a worst case ccounterfactual.

To be clear, it may have come across that way, but that was never my intention. I was not trying to convince anyone else to do it, I just said that I would have if my vote was free. That is all I planned to say about you getting hammered there, but Ydra questioned it so I explained more, and I think the more I talked about it the more it seemed like I wanted someone else to do it.

[Lukewarm]

As for the aside, maybe "tunnel" wasn't entirely the right word. I was referring to how you were the only player who didn't seem to fully tr lukewarm right off the bat and instead made an effort to push him and engage with him about things. In my head this could come from either town (wants to properly sort a slot everyone else has written as town to avoid town being played) or scum (wants to create some confusion on a slot that people are tring), so I wrote it off as interesting, but not alignment indicative on its own.

While catching up, I read hectic's comments on this, and it reminded me of something I wanted to mention.

Child, if fidget's questions directed at me were enough for you to comment on, what did you think of hectic voting and pushing me at one point? I feel like hectic's push on me was much stronger then anything Fidget did, so I am interested why Fidget's stood out, but you did not mention Hectic's

[Lukewarm]

Strangely, I think that Hectic's catchup has simultaneously made me more suspicious of Child AND more suspicious of hectic himself. But also, don't think they could be partners.

[Lukewarm]

I am probably going to be absent from the thread for the next 24ish hours. Having an allergic reaction to my cat's new flea medicine, completely with severe migraine and nausea.

Will not be reading any threads for the near future.

[Lukewarm]

Please give me time to be in this game.

Is this a slip?

He had a whole bit early about making sure he understood that the tree -> stump thing in 692.

Spoiler:

and also that we have no info from NK because scum just prepares for them

A perfect scum game is:
Day 1 - 2v7
Day 2 - 2v7 (actually 5 — 1 primed, 1 stumped)
Day 3 - 2v7 (actualy 3 or MYLO — 2 primed, 2 stumped)
Day 4 - Scum win, without giving away any associative

so our best bet is to get our elim right and force an early burning so that we can get info. am I getting this right?

So if he is town, then he clearly knows that being eliminated would still give him plenty of time to be in this game

[Lukewarm]

It also felt off seeing him say this, trying to shade infinity

Infinity, I feel like you really can't say that I'm not trying to engage you because my entrance involved a direct quote and a question for you.

When this was his response when Infinity tried to engage with him

Infinity I'm doing a catch-up so I'm gonna be living in the past and rushing to put my impressions out there. i'm not gonna be focused on grilling you because the answer can be found in further pages. but you can mount your rebuttals as early as now.

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: the monkey

I think I feel better voting here after the replacement, then I ever did when Johnny was in the slot

[Lukewarm]

like, if i'm gonna choose between limming me and no lim, i will choose no lim because my flip is meaningless anyway

This is possibly the most anti-town post I have ever read with my own two eyes

"If I were to choose between making myself, who is currently being scum read by the entire lobby, into an Innocent Child and not eliminating anyone, depriving the town of its only source of information since we will not get Night Kill flips, I would choose no lim"

[Lukewarm]

That's fine if you really think that I'm scum, and not just someone you want to elim because it's easier.

I was against voting Johnny for this very reason btw, but your entrance moved me to actually wanting to vote you

[Lukewarm]

Consider in my perspective that my slot is just an easy lim to pick on because it's been the least active one and all of you already "towntold" (which is BS because there isn't 8 town). If I just roll-over, my lim will be meaningless as fuck and we're down by one mislim.

To be clear, I don't think anyone in the lobby has

only

you listed as possbile scum, but everyone in the lobby does have you on their list.

[Lukewarm]

I am lost

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: hem
Limming a townread is better than no elim because we still have astump.

Do you have any scum reads/leans at the moment?

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: hem
Limming a townread is better than no elim because we still have astump.

Not a fan of the mindset, lets just go through with this wagon that I town read instead of suggesting a different wagon

[Lukewarm]

The responses themselves were

fine

but not explicitly towny

Ydrasse and Monkey; you both seem cool with a Fairy Child vote, wanna help make that happen?

pretending like I am not even here. smh

VOTE: Child

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: hem
Limming a townread is better than no elim because we still have astump.

Not a fan of the mindset, lets just go through with this wagon that I town read instead of suggesting a different wagon

That's what makes it towny for T3

That's the perfect post to make if you're scum looking to get flashwagoned last minute

I know. The game where I hard accused him of being scum on Page 2 was because I read a post from him and thought "that is the towniest looking post I have ever seen come from T3. He must be scum this game" lmao

[Lukewarm]

oh, I didn't see you there, Lukewarm

It's because of that abyss underneath your hood, I'm not even sure if your head is just 2 yellow eyes suspended in open space

To be fair, it is never really made clear

[Lukewarm]

I have no idea who the scum team is, but I think I would like to flip either hectic or prism, because I am worried about both of those slots, and I think that it would do a lot of good (for me at least) to know that I can trust one of them.

[Lukewarm]

I have no idea who the scum team is, but I think I would like to flip either hectic or prism, because I am worried about both of those slots, and I think that it would do a lot of good (for me at least) to know that I can trust one of them.

Like I simultaneously think they would be the most dangerous scum players to ignore atm, and I also think that they would do the best job of solving from the ic if they are town.

[Lukewarm]

I have no idea who the scum team is, but I think I would like to flip either hectic or prism, because I am worried about both of those slots, and I think that it would do a lot of good (for me at least) to know that I can trust one of them.

Like I simultaneously think they would be the most dangerous scum players to ignore atm, and I also think that they would do the best job of solving from the ic if they are town.

I still stand by this, and I am really leaning towards voting in {hectic, Prism}, although I am not sure which I like more

[Lukewarm]

Maybe I am just really bad at this game, but VOTE: Prism

[Lukewarm]

heya i gotta run some errands but i'll be back later this afternoon
if someone wants to give me a tldr that would be awesome because i'm not really up to speed and deadline is looming

tl;dr, turns out we are in a game with 9 town players, as it is apparently impossible to find scum in any slot.

I personally have a bit of paranoia for both hectic and prism (but not as a pair), but absolutely no one else in the game agrees with me

[Lukewarm]

Oops

Lukewarm, I'm interested to hear why you followed me onto Fairy Child if you had the idea you wanted to vote for Hectic/Prism

I think I'd vote monkey if not Fairy Child anyway

Was reconsidering my Monkey read, and fell back on my suspicions on Child from 674 / 675.

Was worried with the deadline, and I also do not think I hold enough thread sway to get people to move over to either of you.

[Lukewarm]

So I think that right now I am at Prism>Johnny>Hectic>>>Everyone else

But then I don't think that Prism and Hectic are partners.

I think that I would like the elimination to be within those three at the moment

I put it out in the thread earlier, but no one seemed to like it

[Lukewarm]

but the fact that you keep juggling back and forth kinda makes me think that you don't particularly care which ones gets flipped

and still asking a scumread to help flip another scumread is bizarre to me

Skitt, sorry, this reasoning feels bad

Of course he doesn't care which one gets flipped he SRs them both and doesn't have a strong preference

Asking a scumread to flip another scumread could definitely be town-motivated because you can see if they bus or you might just be wrong on one of the reads

Hectic could be scum but this reasoning is pretty weaksauce

I thought the same thing here. Like we were close to a dead line, we needed to push someone over the finish line, why would he not reach out to the people he thought would help get us there?

If hectic is scum, and child + monkey are town, then why change directions at all here?

If hectic is scum, and monkey is his partner, why ask monkey to vote for child in the main thread, instead of mentioning it in the scum pt? Like if that was an attempt to save the monkey, then I feel like you would just vote child, and let the monkey move on their own. The monkey has a great reason on his own to switch to child, as it was the most viable counter wagon to himself, and did not really need a push from hectic?

[Lukewarm]

i don't really mind here cuz i'm just gonna get stumped and i can still drone on abt my theories

don't really know why you find that scummy tho

This also seems premature. Skitter has exactly one vote here at this point.

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: skitter

[Lukewarm]

@infinity, what are your thoughts about hectic?

[Lukewarm]

@infinity, what are your thoughts about hectic?

Meh he's in my PoE

I am adding add skitter to my list of people I am both suspicious of and think would make a good stump if they turn out to be town.

So I am at {skitter, prism, hectic} for the day

But I think that for now, I'll vote with you. You are my strongest TR at the moment, and no one wants to follow me and vote prism

[Lukewarm]

I'm uneasy about you sheeping me since I have so little confidence but ok

Would you rather follow me on a prism vote?

Because we need to flip someone, and if you are not voting with me, I feel like I should vote with you

[Lukewarm]

Right, my reads are horrendous if you are town, and I was never a good choice to sheep.

It's better to trust someone you think is town for sure and have a conversation with them, but people are acting like it's a good trade-off to giving up an miselim when you can just lim slots that you actually think is town

I think that the only person who said that was T3, when he was on board with voting for you.

I am actively suspicious of Prism, Hectic, and Skitter

[Lukewarm]

Would you rather follow me on a prism vote?

No lol

I didn't think so. That is why I decided maybe the best place for my vote was in your hands, because where I wanted it was never gaining steam

[Lukewarm]

i also think lukewarm is town

Why, is literally everyone town reading me?

Like please let me know, so I can emulate that in a scum game later

I feel like I have just shown up and gotten 8.5/9 people to town read me this game.

What is happening?

[Lukewarm]

I am adding add skitter to my list of people I am both suspicious of and think would make a good stump if they turn out to be town.

can you elaborate a bit on why you're suspicious of me?

You replaced in, and seemed to have a firmer grasp on nearly every slot in the game after looking over the thread for like 45 mins, then I have and I have been here the whole time.

The build up to your vote against hectic seemed very telegraphed, first by town reads, and then

971 -> 972 -> 973 -> 974 -> 976 -> 982

It is too perfectly telegraphed out, it feels more like someone who knows everyone's alignments, and is building up to a case, rather then someone who just showed up and is trying to figure out what is going on in a game where the reads are so confusing.

[Lukewarm]

You appeared to start isos at 3:50 pm

10 mins later, you were done with both johnny and hem and have say they feel town. And already have "what are people's thoughts on hectic"

4 mins later, "child of fairies seems town"

4 mins later, you start building a case on hectic, and that builds up to an eventual vote 27 mins later. - Then you appear to stop.

Every post after that point is pushing your hectic read.

So it looks like you are pretty set in your read, but have only iso'ed 3 out of 8 other players.

So from my pov, it seemed less like you were trying to get a read on the game, and more like you spent all of your time building a case against 1 specific person, so basically, you might already know everyone's alignments, so you have less reason to evaluate each slot.

[Lukewarm]

I just would not expect town to stop after reaching exactly 1 scum read, and be ready to push it.

It is not that you have a scum read on hectic, it is that once you found your scum read on hectic you started defending it before even looking at all of the possibilities.

[Lukewarm]

Maybe ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It just seemed suspicious looking at your iso, and seeing "what are people's thoughts on hectic" line in your 3rd post, before you ever even looked at hectic's iso, then turning into hectic being your strongest scum read. Like I said, it all seemed really telegraphed, like you knew where you were going before you started.

And I feel like that is the kind of think that ffery looks for? And she is someone whose scum hunting strategy is something that I am kinda trying to figure out / emulate.

[Lukewarm]

And I feel like that is the kind of think that ffery looks for? And she is someone whose scum hunting strategy is something that I am kinda trying to figure out / emulate.

I realize that this probably seems like it is coming from no where. Please ignore.

I am trying to figure out better ways to scum hunt, and she is one of the people I have been looking at, but thats irrelevant to this game.

[Lukewarm]

Seeing you name-drop ffery is hilarious because she would probably policystump me without hesitation lmao

Glad to know that I ended up in the same place she would have in that regard

[Lukewarm]

Skitter, have you ever played with T3?

[Lukewarm]

Right, my reads are horrendous if you are town, and I was never a good choice to sheep.

It's better to trust someone you think is town for sure and have a conversation with them, but people are acting like it's a good trade-off to giving up an miselim when you can just lim slots that you actually think is town

I think that the only person who said that was T3, when he was on board with voting for you.

I am actively suspicious of Prism, Hectic, and Skitter

Thanks

You are welcome

[Lukewarm]

Infinity, lets vote hectic!!

[Lukewarm]

Every single wagon appears to stall out pretty hard. We gotta get a few people on the same page at some point. You + me + skitter all have hectic in out poe, and I think we could round up the votes from T3/HEM

[Lukewarm]

If we leave it with me pushing Prism, Skitter pushing hectic, You pushing skitter, Prism pushing hem/Ydra, hectic pushing child, then we are never going to get a wagon to pass

[Lukewarm]

The time has come. Lets kill someone

[Lukewarm]

lol

[Lukewarm]

But seriously, we have to consolidate at some point, and we are past when the day should have ended originally.

[Lukewarm]

Idk I still feel like monkey is a decent wagon which is why I'm not super eager to compromise elsewhere in my PoE. Yeah hectic could be scum but I just don't really see why that's likely

I asked you earlier what your thoughts were on hectic, and your response was he was in your poe, but I guess not your elim poe?

Who is in that pool for you?

[Lukewarm]

Why does literally every single wagon feel like pulling teeth. Like even when Monkey was on the chopping block, hectic and ydra and T3 and You were all arguing against it.

[Lukewarm]

It's all so meh :/

Who ever is the scum is doing a good job this game, and it is also literally day 1. I think we have to settle for meh.

[Lukewarm]

I can get real impatient end of day, when things are stalling out

[Lukewarm]

I just want someone to flip, so we have new hard info to work off of

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: monkey

[Lukewarm]

Pretty sure that is E-1

[Lukewarm]

I think that the chances that T3 is scum is almost zero. T3 made this post when Prism was at E-1

These past few pages have made prism a stronger townread for me.

T3 is not super confident in his scum game, and I doubt he tries to set himself up to be the end game scum. Johnny is in a lot of hot water at this point being on VLA. Scum T3 agrees with other people, hammers here, and hopes the night phase buys Johnny enough time to return to be able to be back in the game.

VOTE: hem
Limming a townread is better than no elim because we still have astump.

T3 also makes this post, AFTER Ydra has called Hem town, and AFTER Infinity has unvoted Hem

This is the perfect time for scum T3 to stick to his vote on Child, not to help move the wagon BACK to his scum buddy when it is lessening slightly.

[Lukewarm]

Did the math, and we have at least 3 shots, and that is if we never elim a primed target. If at some point we happen to hit a primed target, we have 4 shots, but there is no way to know this, so we can't plan for it.

[Lukewarm]

Oh yeah, I forgot about the logistics of wasting nighkills by killing people doused in oil

best we leave that alone until it becomes relevant on later days though

I don't think we ever need to plan on killing a primed target, but it is something that might save us if we get it wrong 3 times. Like we might just get lucky, and have 1 more shot then we thought we did.

[Lukewarm]

Hello Noraa, are you sure you are not scum this game?

[Lukewarm]

I'm a tree! Firmly planted in the ground. Very ancient and wise. Much cooler than all the other trees especially you because I'm a pink tree :O

Okay, I'm sold

VOTE: Skitter

[Lukewarm]

Prism feels scummy????? Why do people townread her? Every single one of her posts reminds me of Cabd in that one game where he was deacon blues that cakey hosted.
Lukewarm is pretty eh. He's contributing a lot less to the game than when I last saw him. I'll set him to the side because Prism is so much scummier. Literally why/does anyone townread Prism?

This looks a little silly back to back, seeing as how I am the person who was most vocally and aggressively scum reading Prism Day 1. But I am happy to have someone scum reading me now, I have been asking for that for a while !!!

I would say give Infinity a second look, because she is my most confident town read, and has been since like page 16.

I would also say that Prism and Infinity both were pretty influential in us eliminating scum Day 1, Prism for pushing the case, and then with infinity, I said that her and I should vote together, and she refused to follow me to hectic, so instead I followed her to HEM. So if HEM was her partner, she had the perfect opportunity to just follow me away from her partner without incriminating herself.

[Lukewarm]

So settle for HEM.

This is the most confident, and I actually mean confident, I have been in a very long time.

@Nora, at this moment, Prism talked me and and Infinity to move from Skitter to Hem right before the dead line (T3 then hammered shortly after)

[Lukewarm]

So settle for HEM.

This is the most confident, and I actually mean confident, I have been in a very long time.

@Nora, at this moment, Prism talked me and and Infinity to move from Skitter to Hem right before the dead line (T3 then hammered shortly after)

Like Hem had 2 votes, and Prism successfully whipped up the votes for it to pass, instead of agreeing to join me and infinity on Skitter

[Lukewarm]

This looks a little silly back to back, seeing as how I am the person who was most vocally and aggressively scum reading Prism Day 1. But I am happy to have someone scum reading me now, I have been asking for that for a while !!!

I don't understand. There is only one scum left so it's impossible that you are scum with Prism. I'm calling both of you scummy. What does that have to do with you calling Prism scummy? Honestly, even if she started the HEM wagon, I still think she's scum because her tone feels really really manipulative. I'd believe she messed up a distancing plan over just about anything else.

Who has prism as their top TR? I want to have an argument with that person.

You said "Prism is scummy, why is everyone town reading her" then immediately said "Luke is not doing anything"

Which is funny to see back to back, when I spent a large portion of the day pushing Prism, who you think is scummy. So there is a disconnect there

"People should be pushing Prism"
"Luke has been pushing Prism"
"Luke isn't doing much"

[Lukewarm]

@Nora, I would say read from 1089 -> 1109

It is a fairly quick back and forth, but it is very clear that we are getting close to the deadline, I am pushing Infinity for me and her to vote together so we could consolidate votes and actually get a wagon through, and Prism chose to pull us to her wagon, instead of just joining our voting block.

[Lukewarm]

I think that the context of the conversation that me and infinity are having, give's Prism's posts a very different light.

[Lukewarm]

I don't see a world where I am voting for Prism, Infinity, or T3 today.

[Lukewarm]

think hectics town for past reasons and also the flipflop onto hem without like any justification

uhhhhhh i think this is more likely to come from scum than town, no?

Wouldn't scum either be trying to save their scum buddy, OR be trying to get town cred for their elimination?

Flip flopping without reason, does neither of those things.

Like, at the time you said

i think town-him actually has stronger feelings on one or the other than just 'eh whichever one i can get'

Wouldn't scum have a clear preference?

[Lukewarm]

think hectics town for past reasons and also the flipflop onto hem without like any justification

uhhhhhh i think this is more likely to come from scum than town, no?

Wouldn't scum either be trying to save their scum buddy, OR be trying to get town cred for their elimination?

Flip flopping without reason, does neither of those things.

Like, at the time you said

i think town-him actually has stronger feelings on one or the other than just 'eh whichever one i can get'

Wouldn't scum have a clear preference?

Either option would have made more sense then the flip flop

Show clear preference for Child to try to save Hem OR show clear preference for Hem for the town cred

[Lukewarm]

what are people's thoughts on hectic

Before you ever stated a scum read on Hectic, you asked what people thought about hectic. So you basically tested the waters on it first. Here is everyone's stated read on hectic around that time:

I still stand by this, and I am really leaning towards voting in {hectic, Prism}, although I am not sure which I like more

Hectic I go back and forth on but atm I leantown just because ceding me as town at the point he did was not advantageous.

Hectic has felt towny to me at a couple points earlier but is solidly in my PoE at this point and I've never seen his scumgame

T3 did not answer at the time, but he has hectic as his second lowest read, with only the johnny-slot lower.
Child was not scum reading hectic, but hectic was actively trying to kill child.
Not long before HEM said he was "willing to elim between Fidget, Child, Hectic"


So, you had 1 person actively trying to pass a hectic wagon. 1 person Hectic was currently trying to kill. 3 people with Hectic in their Poe. 1 person flip flopping on hectic (but currently sitting town). And Ydra as a staunch anti-hectic wagon.

You+Hem already had my vote. You would have only needed 2 more out of either child or the people who had Hectic listed in their poe.

I think that Hectic was a fairly possible miselim yesterday, the only slot in the whole game that might have been easier was Child, so you arguing that it was not a viable counterwagon seems silly.

[Lukewarm]

I feel like you are messing with the time line in regards to Infinity. She made it clear that she was against Hectic later on, but when you started your Hectic case, all she had said was that he was in her POE.

963 - You ask people for their thoughts on Hectic

967 - Infinity answers, and she says he "is solidly in my PoE at this point and I've never seen his scumgame"

971 - You start pushing hectic ******

1089 - I still clearly thought Infinity would be okay with a hectic

Spoiler:

Infinity, lets vote hectic!!

1095 - Infinity makes it clear that she has other slots prioritized over Hectic.

[Lukewarm]

unclear why t3 would move from johnny to hectic given that monkey had a lot more momentum

And also, I wonder what could have possibly made you think that T3 might move over to Hectic.

hem is towntelling, but if hem is town then-

VOTE: hem
Limming a townread is better than no elim because we still have astump.

[Lukewarm]

Again, both of those posts were BEFORE you started pushing Hectic.

[Lukewarm]

I don't think you are going to be able to convince me that there was no way any one would think that hectic was a viable counterwagon, when I MYSELF THOUGHT THAT HECTIC WAS A VIABLE COUNTERWAGON.

Infinity, lets vote hectic!!

Every single wagon appears to stall out pretty hard. We gotta get a few people on the same page at some point. You + me + skitter all have hectic in out poe, and I think we could round up the votes from T3/HEM

[Lukewarm]

So whether or not you thought that Hectic was a viable wagon (which is an odd argument to make, seeing as how you pushed him. Why would you push for his elim, even as town, if you thought it was pointless?), given the game state, he was a reasonable counter wagon from my POV.

[Lukewarm]

unclear why t3 would move from johnny to hectic given that monkey had a lot more momentum

And also, I wonder what could have possibly made you think that T3 might move over to Hectic.

hem is towntelling, but if hem is town then-

VOTE: hem
Limming a townread is better than no elim because we still have astump.

i don't know what your point is with this post, it seems like t3 wants hem more than hectic, which is what i'm saying

I-

Are you saying that you see T3 saying that Hem is towntelling, and T3 calling Hem a town read, and you don't think that it is reasonable to think he can be swayed to vote someone else?

[Lukewarm]

I don't think you are going to be able to convince me that there was no way any one would think that hectic was a viable counterwagon, when I MYSELF THOUGHT THAT HECTIC WAS A VIABLE COUNTERWAGON.

it wasn't a viable counterwagon, i literally just showed it wasn't ...

Maybe we are having different arguments.

I am not arguing that he was a viable wagon. He wasn't, because Infinity had a strong preference against voting him that she did not state when asked how she felt about Hectic (she did not state it when you asked her how she felt about hectic, and then she did not state it when I asked her)

I am saying that at the time you started your push,

it was reasonable to think

that he could be a viable counter wagon. Which I am supporting by saying that at the time,

I thought that

he was a viable counter wagon.

[Lukewarm]

I would like to hear other reasons people are town/scum because right now it sounds like "they were on wagon. they're town" which is like 2D logic that misses so much. Lukewarm has kinda just closed off the option of on wagon people being scum

Maybe you are boiling my reads down to "they were on the wagon, so must be town" - but that is not the basis for my reads at all.

I already told you Infinity has been lock town in my mind since like page 16, so clearly that read has more to live off of then just the vote. I told you exactly where to look to find the basis for that read. If you don't want to read it, don't read it, but don't act like I did not point you directly to my reasoning.

I actually think that T3 not voting for prism, and even giving her a town read, when she was at E-1 is the stronger thing in his favor then him voting Hem. Like Prism was being highly adversarial, and I was vocally explaining why I would hammer Prism if I was not already voting her, and T3 gives her a town read (and assuming scum T3, would mean that his partner at the time was VLA and universally scum read. Buying his partner time to get back would have 100% been the play).

Prism is the only person who I am TRing based on the HEM wagon. Not because he was on it, but because she went out of her way to convince 3 other people to join her there.

Also, I made my case on Skitter being scum on Page 42, you are welcome to go read it. Currently, I am just arguing that her defense of "scum me would not think that Hectic was a viable counter wagon" does not make sense to me, because at the time I thought that he was a viable counter wagon.

If you don't want to read the thread, don't read the thread. - But don't come in here with this bullshit that my reads are extremely shallow and surface level, when you are quite simply not reading the game.

[Lukewarm]

I would not be against a Nora flip here.

Yes, I know, OMGUS - but also, every take they have made this game looks like it is revolving around "lets destroy the town block in the game" when the town block in the game literally just voted out scum - which certainly an interesting time to do it.

Also, refusing to read the thread gives her a nice plausible deniability behind any and all pushes they might want to make. Like they they replace into the game, announce they have not read the thread and don't plan to, and then they start making pushes without considering "maybe there is stuff I missed, that would make this take bad"

Also. also, they seemed really certain they was on the line for elimination for the day, when I don't think they really were? Like, me and Hectic were pushing Skitter. Skitter was pushing Hectic. Prism's stated scum team solve was HEM+Ydra. T3 voted Ydra.

And even though there was a lot of different directions the thread was being pulled in, this is the impression Noraa got

Right now, people mostly agree we are limming one of her or me?

And I feel like scum is primed to expect to be more scum read then they really are.

[Lukewarm]

I am not sure that I explicitly want Noraa over Skitter, but that is a wagon I would join if it started gaining any traction

[Lukewarm]

So the question is Fairy Child or skitter for the clean sweep

The only thing that gives me doubt regarding skitter is Fidget's towniness and the fact I'd be horribly wrong on reading her for the first time in forever £_£

My point being that exactly one person said that, and you were left thinking that the entire thread felt that way.

[Lukewarm]

"lets destroy the town block in the game"

If skitter is not scum, that town block has deep wolf. And I don't think skitter is scum. That town block isn't fully town and I'm 99.999% sure of it.

Who do you think is in the town block?

Imo, it is Me+Infinity+Prism+T3

I am surprised that when you reached "I think skitter is town" that you then decided the "town block isn't fully town and I'm 99.999% sure of it" Without first considering Hectic or Ydra

I started pushing Skitter today, but I am still personally suspicious of Hectic. And with Prism's Hem+Ydra solve being 50% right already, Ydra is someone to consider as well.

[Lukewarm]

I'm flipping my read on you to town. Don't let me down.

Goddamn it, having someone scum read me definitely helps me be more engaged with the game lol.

Back to the 'universally town read, but also unable to push wagons' space I was in before

Spoiler:

Since you missed it, I am in fact town read by every single slot, and it is weird to me because that has never happened before in any game I have played, and I don't really know what I did differently ?

And people like really town read me. I mean:

I will eat Hectic's oldest athletic shoe boiled in a pot of grape Kool-Aid if Lukewarm is scum

[Lukewarm]

I am surprised that when you reached "I think skitter is town" that you then decided the "town block isn't fully town and I'm 99.999% sure of it" Without first considering Hectic or Ydra

I mean i would put ydra in the townbloc
And i think some people would put hectic too (obviously over my objections, etc)

I dong think from her pov this is an entirely unreasonable conclusion (albeit i think she's too confident in it)

I don't think someone can be in the town block, if people in the town block are suspicious of them-

Like isn't the whole idea of a town block is a group of people who all mutually town read each other?

Spoiler:

Me @Hectic and Prism @ Ydra

[Lukewarm]

I'm pretty certain that if one of them is scum, it's hectic.

You didn't acknowledge my point about ydrasse getting way better as scum recently

Not saying she's scum here, still feel like it's skitt, but still. I feel like ydrasse is more likely than hectic

I have seen Ydra as scum in exactly 2 games, and I am left feeling like she is the single best scum player I have seen so far on site. So, it does make it hard for me to give her a town read this game

[Lukewarm]

Spoilering, because I don't want to clog the thread gushing over Ydra's scum game

Spoiler:

She is good but you have not seen the real beast. Trust me. Once you meet pooky, you will think the whole universe is a lie. The world is a lie. Humans are a lie. Existence is a lie. Pooky is the scariest scum in the world. I could catch him on day 1 and never be able to get him killed. That's how good he is but he is also the one person who as town, understands me to heaven, hell and back and I love my fellow brown bear. He is the bestest!

I have played with scum pooky. I scum read them, and helped lead the elimination against them (along side catboi)

I played against scum Ydra, and she became town read by literally 9 out of 9 players in the game. Literally. The game had one vote where it was actually "vote for a town" instead of the normal eliminate scum, and she won that vote. She was by so universally town read that she easily won a "vote the person who is most likely town" vote.

[Lukewarm]

I feel that, but I've hard townread scum!ydrasse too many times to share your feelings here

Shared war flashbacks to Guardians of the Fortress lol

[Lukewarm]

To be clear, I am not currently wanting to push Ydra. I am just struggling to put her in my lock town tier with Infinity/Prism/T3

[Lukewarm]

I am coming in into Day 3 with Nora as my top choice for elimination.

[Lukewarm]

@Satoru Nakata. T3 has been in almost every single game I have played in. Turns out that even in the games I did not think he was in, he was playing in under an alt that he recently alt slipped in, so I have even more experience then I realized lol.

The main reason that T3 has moved into "lock town" territory for me, is him not hammering Prism, and his posting around that time.

If you assume that T3 IS scum, then the scum team was [T3, Johnny], and I just don't see scum T3 doing that dance around the Prism wagon.T3 and Johnny were BOTH in most players scum reads at the time, and he certainly would have known that if the Prism wagon did not pass, then one of the two of them were very likely to be the elimination.

When Prism was at E-1, scum T3 would have almost certainly hammered Prism, then probably tried to say that he just trusted me (as I was very loudly saying that I would hammer Prism at the time if I was not already voting for her). Like there was a wagon that he could hammer, he had an automatic defense of saying he was sheeping me, and it would have pushed through a town miselim, buying his VLA partner time to get back into the thread.

Scum T3 is not confident in his scum game, and I do not see him trying to be the end game scum. That hammer would have have bought Johnny a minimum of Night 1 to get back into the game, and even if he did get elimed for it, it would have then bought Johnny all of Night 1, Day 2, and Night 2. Even if he might get elim'ed Day 2 over the vote, pushing Prism through would have been a win from T3's prospective

Summary of my experiences with him as town

Spoiler:

T3 is probably the most miselimed player on the site, based on my limited experience. His usual play style is basically scum read by everyone. As town, I get the feeling that he does not care how other people read his slot, and offers little to defend himself when scum read. He makes is clear that he is self solving the game, but does not usually do much to actually push his reads. He drops his reads, and even his reasoning (contray to his self-meta earlier this game), but does not generally make scum cases, and he is not out campaigning to whip up votes. He looks like he content just getting his solve in the thread. - And all of that means he is elim'ed Day 1 in the majority of games I play with him. He makes short posts, and is accused of lurking. Then his reads are accused of not being genuine because he does not make full cases around them, and then he does not do a ton to defend himself, so he gets voted out.
Take this as a PSA to everyone, and the next time you see T3 getting voted out Day 1 to reconsider

Some points I have noticed from him as scum

Spoiler:

Scum T3 is interesting.

For starters, I think he is a bit nervous as scum (backed up by reading scum pts after he has died by the way), but he started this game joking with me. I don't think scum T3 makes post 94. Both because I think he is less likely to joke, and I also don't think he would draw attention to the fact that I have correctly scum read him based on meta.

Scum T3 also he does make posts that look like he cares about how his slot is read. So he responds to people's scum reads of him, and tries to save his slot. - I have seen very little evidence of this game, even though many people listed suspicions of him.

Scum T3 also posts with an agenda. He DOES try to make scum cases, and he does try to whip up votes to convince other people to vote with him.

[Lukewarm]

Oh, VOTE: Noraa

Meant to drop that with my first post today

[Lukewarm]

Idk why scum-noraa doesnt scumread me yesterday

Doesn't scum!noraa want to keep you alive to mislim you later?

Will read tomorrow

I was inevitable yesterday, i dont see why she wouldnt join the bandwagon

They did not push anyone that had a chance of flipping before you - they pressed me, Infinity, and Prism. The 3 least likely people to flip yesterday imo.

Noraa's play was to push people who would never flip, and watch us kill you anyways. And apparently that hard convinced you, the person who just became an IC, that they were town.

I also feel like Noraa's play around me was off (and to a lesser extent Infinity). Like they started out accusing me of being scummy, but then quickly tried to transition to being buddy-buddy with me, which is strange if they were genuinely suspicious of us.

Like:

I mean if Prism actually isn't scum [snip] then Lukewarm is just deep wolf and this game is a loss no matter what lmao

Ok Lukewarm and me vibing. Soul mason acquired yayyyyyyyyy

Infinity was a little less extreme, but started off with being suspicious that Infinity was so unreadable, to also declaring them soul-masons as well.

[Lukewarm]

Basically skitter, if Noraa entered the game, and thought that the town had narrowed it down to "it must be nora or skitter," then hard scum reading you, and you flipping town day 2, means they just loses the game Day 3.

So they had to break the idea that scum must be between Nora and skitter, and all they did Day 2 points to that imo. They did not go with you being scum, instead they went with "Both me AND Skitter are town, so we all need to re examine all of the other slots out there"

[Lukewarm]

Also Lukewarm is completely misrepping me. I TRed skitter and in a game like mafia, if the limpool is you and someone that you TR, it is much easier to break free of consensus together than as one person.

I am not misrepping you. Yes, you stated in thread that you had a town read on Skitter. I am in no way saying that that is not what happened. I am not even saying that you town reading skitter there was scum indicative.

Skitter said that scum!you would not have made that play, and would have instead scum read skitter.

My point is that town you, who really town read skitter, would have played that way AND scum you, who would need to break the idea that scum must be found in [skitter, nora], would need to play that way as well, so the reason skitter is town reading you, is actually NAI.

My reasons to scum read you are earlier in my iso.

[Lukewarm]

Spoiler:

I would not be against a Nora flip here.

Yes, I know, OMGUS - but also, every take they have made this game looks like it is revolving around "lets destroy the town block in the game" when the town block in the game literally just voted out scum - which certainly an interesting time to do it.

Also, refusing to read the thread gives her a nice plausible deniability behind any and all pushes they might want to make. Like they they replace into the game, announce they have not read the thread and don't plan to, and then they start making pushes without considering "maybe there is stuff I missed, that would make this take bad"

Also. also, they seemed really certain they was on the line for elimination for the day, when I don't think they really were? Like, me and Hectic were pushing Skitter. Skitter was pushing Hectic. Prism's stated scum team solve was HEM+Ydra. T3 voted Ydra.

And even though there was a lot of different directions the thread was being pulled in, this is the impression Noraa got

Right now, people mostly agree we are limming one of her or me?

And I feel like scum is primed to expect to be more scum read then they really are.

I also feel like Noraa's play around me was off (and to a lesser extent Infinity). Like they started out accusing me of being scummy, but then quickly tried to transition to being buddy-buddy with me, which is strange if they were genuinely suspicious of us.

Like:

I mean if Prism actually isn't scum [snip] then Lukewarm is just deep wolf and this game is a loss no matter what lmao

Ok Lukewarm and me vibing. Soul mason acquired yayyyyyyyyy

Infinity was a little less extreme, but started off with being suspicious that Infinity was so unreadable, to also declaring them soul-masons as well.

[Lukewarm]

Spoiler:

I would not be against a Nora flip here.

Yes, I know, OMGUS - but also, every take they have made this game looks like it is revolving around "lets destroy the town block in the game" when the town block in the game literally just voted out scum - which certainly an interesting time to do it.

Also, refusing to read the thread gives her a nice plausible deniability behind any and all pushes they might want to make. Like they they replace into the game, announce they have not read the thread and don't plan to, and then they start making pushes without considering "maybe there is stuff I missed, that would make this take bad"

Also. also, they seemed really certain they was on the line for elimination for the day, when I don't think they really were? Like, me and Hectic were pushing Skitter. Skitter was pushing Hectic. Prism's stated scum team solve was HEM+Ydra. T3 voted Ydra.

And even though there was a lot of different directions the thread was being pulled in, this is the impression Noraa got

Right now, people mostly agree we are limming one of her or me?

And I feel like scum is primed to expect to be more scum read then they really are.

I also feel like Noraa's play around me was off (and to a lesser extent Infinity). Like they started out accusing me of being scummy, but then quickly tried to transition to being buddy-buddy with me, which is strange if they were genuinely suspicious of us.

Like:

I mean if Prism actually isn't scum [snip] then Lukewarm is just deep wolf and this game is a loss no matter what lmao

Ok Lukewarm and me vibing. Soul mason acquired yayyyyyyyyy

Infinity was a little less extreme, but started off with being suspicious that Infinity was so unreadable, to also declaring them soul-masons as well.

[Lukewarm]

Noraa has become lock scum for me as of this page. I am ready to 1v1 her to the death. If we kill her today, and she flips town, I will take the elim tomorrow.

Spoiler:

No, I cannot explain what happened on this page to lock her as scum for me, which I know is

really crappy

- but that is why I am willing to offer myself up as the miselim tomorrow, to make up for me not being able to explain my reasoning

My game plan for Day 4 was to ask everyone if we should kill a paranoia target (out of me, prism, infinity) anyways, because the 3 of us were all most likely going to be primed at that point, so there was little risk, but I am 100% down to be the paranoia vote tomorrow.

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm as scum is laying out a Noraa lim then a T3 lim tomorrow. Assuming he didn't decide to prime skitter for some reason, the three primed targets blow up for a scum win.
Prism said that it would be better to scum read T3 or leave room to lim. If I were scum and I saw potential mislims for the future that ARENT VERY ACTIVE, plan of action would be to TR them and the next day be like "I want to TR them but its impossible with their activity levels" which leads a solid and steady path to that mislim. I don't think anything Lukewarm has done is locktown worthy. His whole play is SO towny that it's probably scum. Lukewarm's a newbie and in his last game with me, his town game was not this flawless and shiny. I find him very towny. But I don't think that says good things about his alignment.

If you think this is scum me trying to push you though, are you willing to gladiate? Like if you are sure its me, and I am sure its you, then we can just both get eliminated.

I am confident enough in my scum read on you to even go first if you want.

[Lukewarm]

Noraa has basically just scum claimed, in case anyone missed it.

Lukewarm is pretty eh. He's contributing a lot less to the game than when I last saw him.

In my last game with you, I felt deeper analysis than this extremely shallow surface level wagon analysis.

I don't think anything Lukewarm has done is locktown worthy. His whole play is SO towny that it's probably scum. Lukewarm's a newbie and in his last game with me, his town game was not this flawless and shiny. I find him very towny. But I don't think that says good things about his alignment.

Noraa looked at my play yesterday, and I was "pretty eh" "contributing less then our last game" and "last game I had deeper analysis"

Now, Noraa is saying "luke's game is too flawless" and "last game, I was not"

They scum read me first because I was not as good as last game, but now they are scum reading me because I am too much better then last game. Noraa's takes on me are contradictory, because they are not genuine.

[Lukewarm]

Noraa is getting desperate. Earlier she said this

If I cannot get at least half of this game to believe I am town, I should die today because tomorrow is lylo

and

Seeing the gamestate, I will much rather die today than tomorrow.

But now that that their earlier posts did not get them town read, they are becoming more survivalistic. Refusing my 1v1, and saying things like ,

I'm worried he'll get me killed.

which makes less sense if they were being genuine before.

Spoiler: @Hectic

my "secret reason" as you put it is in fact due to ongoing games. In general, I do not like saying that line, and would much rather push them over them being contradictory/ingenuine over their read on me and how they feel about being the elim today

[Lukewarm]

Just so everyone knows where I am at, I don't think I have ever been more sure of a read in my entire life lol

[Lukewarm]

Okay, I just searched through the mokey's iso, and this is literally every single time that child of faries was mentioned (spoiler for the spoiler, its not much)

Spoiler:

As of now, I'm willing to elim between Infinity 324, Fidget, Child of Fairies and maybe maybe maybe Prism.

Willing to elim between Fidget, Child, Hectic

Let's talk about who I won't elim. I won't elim you and Prism. I'll be cool with Child or Fidget. I'll hesitate with T3 and Hectic (I think Hectic looked good when he came back from V/LA). I'll deeply hesitate with Ydrasse and Lukewarm.

Child is listed in his PoE every time, but he never votes there, he never tries to steer the town that direction, he never even makes a single post where he points out anything that he found scummy from Child. Child is litterally mentioned in three of his posts. Exactly the posts where he lists his poe.

Compare that to how he handles the other people in his PoE lists

Spoiler: Infinity

Page 6. From the get go, I don't believe that Infinity's reads are genuine. She makes these reads but I don't believe her process. First example is her read on Prism as town, but it's barely obvious what's town about Prism at the time she made that read and I don't buy her current explanation when I asked her. Another example is in #125 - reads Ydrasse as scum because she expects deeper out of Ydrasse but it's page 6 and we've only begun to escape RVS at this point. Oh, and then she votes Hectic even though it's also not apparent that Ydrasse has stopped doing what she thought was scummy.

VOTE: Infinity Let's see if I don't change my mind after Page 6

see here: Prism is talking about her reads and Infinity jumps on this with an agreement — but they're talking about different games. It doesn't seem like an actual evaluation happened here, just an opportunity to piggyback a read.

Either I'm not understanding Infinity's process at all or she doesn't have one because this does not follow. Maybe she can explain?

EBWOP

see here: Prism is talking about her reads and Infinity jumps on this with an agreement — but they're talking about different games. It doesn't seem like an actual evaluation happened here, just an opportunity to piggyback a read.

I don't understand how this is AI at all since I didn't agree with prism's original assessment of luke's meta, just the conclusion

in this example, as well as my other examples, it appears to me that you don't really have your own reads/you're faking them because it's not obvious to me that there's a process there

Infinity, I feel like you really can't say that I'm not trying to engage you because my entrance involved a direct quote and a question for you.

Spoiler: Fidget

Fidget's reads in #484 and #485 gives a lot of leeway on herself to flip her reads on some slots. Like she'd call a slot town, and then give a scenario that they're scum. It just doesn't seem like an actual stance to me.

even #486 and #487.

Actually I'll just re-quote it so it's fresh for your memory.

Sure being an object of focus is kinda "nyeh" but I also am unsure I've exhibited too much I couldn't do as scum. The aforementioned not just sitting on you is fair though. I'm more referring to Hectic, T3, whoever else having me as decent town early. I would kill to know why although it's partially my curiosity asking as I'm not certain it will be productive or not.

Prism I believe I've seen you play scum a couple other times, I remember reading a couple of your posts from a recent normal and a newbie I think and wondering how scum could possibly post those things. Even just skimming the post you linked here I'm wondering about what your approach would be here to control the narrative, and I need a lot of evidence that you're trying and failing to control the narrative to satisfactorily answer the question of "what the hell happened for scum!prism to get into this situation?" I wouldn't call it a townread yet, but

It feels like you're arguing why Prism could be scum rather than why Prism is scum. You've mentioned this before that Prism has a wide scumrange, and that's certainly fair, although exactly why you find Prism scummy has been unclear to me. You've countered reasons for townreading Prism, but what's your suspicion? I suppose it's a gut level read and hard to articulate. My point is just that it seems like you're countering "Prism couldn't be scum" logic more than addressing why Prism is scum in the first place.

I don't totally get the case against Prism.

Johhny, Faries, and Prism are my top 3 scum after a reread.

What changed in this 14 min game here?

Like what did you see in the reread that you missed the first time?

Another thing that draws me to townreading T3. If you're scum keeping track of reads, I feel like one of your most prevalent forged reads would be the very last post you made 10 min ago.

I get that opportunism is a thing but so blatant and unnecessary seems like and odd move. Prism didn't need more attackers, especially when my stance and Infinity's are still unclear or leaning suspecting.

This is a pretty dumb take by me if T3 really is scum and genuinely just isn't keeping track of their faked reads and posts whatever on the fly. It's possible, I just find it less likely compared to inconsistent town thoughts at the moment. Cause I see (and feel that myself) as town all the time.

Oh I missed it since you quoted a bunch of stuff to me

I said I was waiting for fidget to townpost but she hasn't yet

fair

yeah i’m just waiting on some good takes

Out of curiosity, do you either of you two know who I am? I don't respond to guesses or anything but some people just know.

On one hand, waiting for me to show my true colours is a tried and true tactic since there is a distinct difference when I turn on. On the other, it doesn't typically happen on the first day. I just found it moderately interesting you're both taking an interest with me this way.

So who are you thinking about/wanting to look at right now? I imagine there are still thoughts about me swirling around, but curious as to where you go from here.

My feelings on Johnny are pretty much in stasis as I don't believe he's come back since then. He's.. probably my current guess. He got traction quite easily, but I can buy that from D1 in a game where he'd only have one partner. And there's been you as a counter, so whatever.

In my mind, Johnny TMIing you and Hectic as town is probably my favored view of the game, and his partner is just whoever. Don't really have an opinion there.

I could be falling into a trap of townreading the actives but I'm at least inclined to say I'm not, I felt decent about my Hectic lean and I don't really have an opinion on you outoide of gut but the threads relative ease towards killing you bolsters my confidence slightly.

Out of the rest of the cast I think Lukewarm and T3 are most town and I'm gray on Infinity, ydrasse, and Fairies. I had tiny points in favor of the first two earlier in the game but nothing that makes me feel fantastic.

Actually yeah there was more with Infinity with regards to her approach to your wagon that seemed genuine to me though, forgot abt that yesterday. I'd probably say she's a bit less likely, I don't think her stances towards you were *quite* necessary. After a town elim on you that seems like a lot of stress for relatively little gain. Feel more likely it's town that believes you're scum but without a good reason why. Not certain though

If Fairy and Johnny are my bottom players though that is really just less active players = scummier, sigh. Johnny suspicion still likely my best lead at the moment. Guess it falls apart if I'm reading you or Hectic wrong.

Spoiler: Hectic

Not sure how to read Hectic because he intimidates me as a player and I'm inclined to just assume he's scum, but his response to Prism's pressure Page 8 is towny

I will admit that the scum push on Hectic is a bit sparser, but this is still more then he gives Child.

Also, he mentions Hectic a lot more in general, outside of of scum pushing. Again, Child was mentioned in 3 posts. A control+f of hectic in HEM's iso has 27 results

[Lukewarm]

Also, everyone complimenting my scum game and saying how I'm valuable feels so sarcastic because I failed to save myself

You walked into a slot that was 150% going to be the elim day 1, and you turned it around enough that I did not think that it was going to go through. Which is why I decided to rally a hectic push, because so many people suddenly were town reading you. It might not have been enough to save the slot, but the amount of doubt you put into it was impressive. I think you would have saved yourself against a slightly weaker town.

[Lukewarm]

Redacted

[Lukewarm]

Thanks Murdercat for modding

[Lukewarm]

I don't think this setup (with the modification of no firefighter) is balanced heavily towards town, I think this game suffered from a scum slot being inactive and a D1 scum elim is very bad for scum. But it could very well be the case that it just isn't fun for scum as they have very little agency to actually do very much to control the game. It ended up playing out kind of like mountainous where scum couldn't even nightkill.

I don't think that there is a problem with the balance of the set-up.

Like, if Nora and HEM were the scum team from the start, I am not confident that town would have won. Like we might have, but I could easily see us losing.

[Lukewarm]

Redacted

[Lukewarm]

Redacted

[Lukewarm]

Sorry if I got too close to the line. Like, read the listmod guidelines, and tried to match the "acceptable" wording - But I totally get why you redacted it. Sorry again :/

[Lukewarm]

@Noraa, I think you did great this game, regardless of whether you got caught or not.

I just think the town also did a great job of finding each other this game. And ended up with a strong town block, and that is pretty powerful in helping town win games.

Jonny and Child both being VLA for parts of Day 1, meant that the scum team just was not present to spread doubt and keep us from finding each other. I think that by the time you repped in, it was just a little too late.

[Lukewarm]

I am still baffled by the strength of the town reads on me. I have never been town read this much in any game I have ever played in. I feel like I need to study this game to figure out what I did. Like this is the game I should be aiming to emulate in a scum game.

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm played extremely well start to finish; great reads all around and even when he scumread me I understood why and didn't blame him. I don't have a lot of constructive criticism here other than to illuminate for him why he was so townread. First, you had only one scumgame on record where you were a lot stiffer and not as loose/original with your reads. Second, though, the conversation I describe here was the moment you became locktown to me. Looping back and continuing to investigate a conversation after it's ended and a scum-Lukewarm would be sitting comfortably bled town. Faking this with so little experience, and especially in contrast with the one sample we had from you, would have been insane. This isn't to say scum-you is going to be bad or can't fake this stuff, but this would have been one of the fastest+most complete improvements in a single game I had ever seen.

Thanks for pointing that out. I will make sure that I try something like that in my first real scum game (still not counting the marathon lol).

So now, all I need to do is actually roll scum, and that to happen in a game that none of you are in, because you all get to read me plan for it

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm also has a thought. Specifically, that the way in which friend Nakata writes his posts is most pleasing. Lukewarm has seen many a player who posts using purposefully unique styles, and Lukewarm thinks that this was the most pleasant and non-disruptive one he has seen on this site. Lukewarm hopes to encounter friend Nakata again some time in the future

[Lukewarm]

Nakata also saw friend Hectic asking if we were acquianted: we are indeed. Nakata is acquianted to greater or lesser with everyone who was playing this day phase!

Nakata would also like to pedit this post by saying he appreciates friend Lukewarm’s kind words! Nakata also hopes to see Lukewarm in more games as time goes on!

Alts are wild. I have absolutely no idea where you and I could be acquainted. It is odd entering games, and knowing that there are people that might know more about you then you know about them.

[Lukewarm]

Just like self reflecting on being town read this game, I think that it was also in part because I have had positive experiences playing with all of Ydra, Infinity, T3, and Johnny previously, so I was looking forward to playing with each of you again before the game even started. I think that translated into me being more relaxed in general at the start of Day 1 then I have been in my prior games, where I have generally been going in knowing very few people I was getting ready to play with.

[Lukewarm]

It is also hard to sell a "the game is solved narrative" after saying that you have too many scum reads. You being suspicious of so many people just like 1 or 2 pages before the self vote, undercuts that narrative somewhat