Cook's Mini Normal Review, June 2021

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Subject: Normal Queue Thread (Players and Mods)

/in to mod a 13-player mini normal

My setup:

2:10+01

2

Mafia Goons

Town Doctor

10

Vanilla Townies

Scum have daytalk.

Just something simple that won't be hard to track.

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Primary: northsidegal
Secondary: Isis, Gypyx

[Gypyx]

oh well, i didn't expect something like that lol

so, thoughts : while 11:2 mountanious is theoretically balanced iirc, in practice it ends up being scumsided because of low scum density, and scum can just kill townie peoples

so, does adding a doctor on top of that fixes the issue? i don't really think so, because first of all, it's pretty hard to hit saves already, secondly, he could also be inclined to heal peoples he thinks are PR given the lack of information that it's a very low power setup, and then ultimately, he needs to hit 2 saves for it to really be useful

then of course, hitting a save could clear himself, but i'm not sure that on it's own is sufficient to fix the scumsiding parts, so yeah, imo it's scumsided? also it's pretty swingy but it's your design intention so i'm fine with that

[Cook]

Could toss in a Neapolitan and Rolestopper if there’s no way a low power setup works.

In any case, perhaps simplicity is key.

[Gypyx]

that wouls become quite a lot then tbh

waiting to hear on the feedback of others, but i'm having a few ideas for changes

[northsidegal]

yeah unfortunately i think i'm going to have to veto this one on just non-balance concerns. games in the normal queue have certain expectations for what the setups will look like, and this one is too expectation-defying such that it sort of goes against the philosophy of normal games. if you still wanted to run it as a closed, though, i would take it to the mini theme queue.

i'm normally supposed to always propose changes in each post but i think that the ball is basically in your court for how you want the setup to evolve from here.

[Cook]

Thought this over, scrapped the old idea, wanted to make a neighbor-centric game.

The Latecomers

1

Mafia Backup Neighbor

1

Mafia Role Cop

1

Mafia Goon

1

Town Neighbor

1

Town Novice Neighbor

1

Town Activated Neighbor

1

Town 1-Shot Doctor

1

Town 1-Shot Cop

5

Vanilla Townies

Setup concept revolves around a hood that starts with only one player but gets bigger as time goes on, and a scum player infiltrates it later.

[Gypyx]

eww, that sounds like really pushing the limits of what's normal, it seems scumsided in a vaccum, but i'd advise against theorizing a whole new game altogether

[Gypyx]

i'd advise for*

[Isis]

I think if you convert the novice neighbor into a regular neighbor the gimmick is fine.

It's light on town power and I expect NSG will ask you to add some.

[northsidegal]

novice neighbor is questionably normal, as is activated neighbor (although a cool role for sure)

large neighborhoods are alright, isis is definitely correct regarding the town power though

[Isis]

The wiki page for activated says activated turns any passive role into an active role.
Neighbor is also a normal role
If it's not a normal combination just because no one has used it on a normal game before then it will never be normal due to the logic loop. It seems pretty fine to me.

Novice neighbor on the other hand is juryrigging a modifier understood to modify actives to modify a passive do that's a no

[northsidegal]

yeah, i agree with you for the most part there. i would actually pass an activated neighbor in a setup, and i could

maybe

be convinced to pass a novice neighbor (although less likely). i guess part of the question though is what is even really the point? both from a broader setup perspective and from the individual perspective. is there really any strategic decision for a townie who gets activated neighbor as to whether or not to join the hood n1? and if it doesn't interact with any other roles in the setup, it sort of seems a little functionless. that isn't terrible, to be clear -- i generally consider red herrings to be a good thing to include in your setup, it just seems like a little bit of a waste of an interesting role.

[Isis]

It'd be more interesting as a joat probably

[Cook]

Mason lists a Novice Mason as a legitimate role.

[Cook]

Mason lists a Novice Mason as a legitimate role.

correction: as a role-modifier combo that can work.

[Cook]

1 Mafia Backup Neighbor
1 Mafia Role Cop
1 Mafia Goon
1 Town Neighbor
1 Town Novice Neighbor
1 Town Activated Neighbor
1 Town 1-Shot Doctor
1 Town 1-Shot Cop
5 Vanilla Townies

Roles (not PMs)

You're a Backup Neighbor.
• Once a Neighbor dies you will gain access to the Neighborhood PT, where you may communicate with other Neighbors.

You're a Role Cop.
• Target someone at night to learn a role but not an alignment.

You're a Goon.
• No special abilities

You're a Neighbor
• You have access to a Neighborhood PT, where you may communicate with other Neighbors.

You're a Novice Neighbor
• On Day 2 and onwards you have access to a Neighborhood PT, where you may communicate with other Neighbors.

You're an Activated Neighbor
• You may choose to join the Neighborhood PT at a later date, where you may communicate with other Neighbors.

You're a 1-Shot Doctor
• Once in the game, heal someone, saving them from an attack on that night.

You're a 1-Shot Cop
• Once in the game cop someone, learn if they are Mafia or not.

You're a Vanilla Townie.
• You didn't rand The Flying Pumpkin That Shoots Laser Beams Out Of Its Ass. I'm sorry for your loss.

[northsidegal]

to be clear: this setup is not passed and needs to be changed. town needs more power, and it seems to be the consensus that "novice neighbor" also needs to be changed. i also recommend that you either change the activated neighbor or alter the setup to somehow justify its inclusion a bit more

[Cook]

to be clear: this setup is not passed and needs to be changed. town needs more power, and it seems to be the consensus that "novice neighbor" also needs to be changed. i also recommend that you either change the activated neighbor or alter the setup to somehow justify its inclusion a bit more

yep. i'm still aware of that.

[northsidegal]

sorry, just wanted to make sure. with you reposting the setup and the role list like that that's typically the sort of thing people do after the setup is finalized, so just trying to be clear.

[Cook]

sorry, just wanted to make sure. with you reposting the setup and the role list like that that's typically the sort of thing people do after the setup is finalized, so just trying to be clear.

yep

[Isis]

Sometimes the wiki is a wiki. Novice neighbor is a no.

[Cook]

Sometimes the wiki is a wiki. Novice neighbor is a no.

Alrighty. Convert that into a

Town Neighbor

[Gypyx]

still need more town power, the hood is close to null in value i'd say

[Cook]

ungate the cop?

make one neighbor BP?